By John Walker on July 8th, 2009 at 8:52 am.
The demo for the first Tales of Monkey Island episodic adventure is available now. As indeed is the game. It seems so soon after the first announcement that it exists. This time you don’t appear to be able to buy the episodes separately. Instead Telltale want you to commit to the full five episode series in one purchase.
But put your arms back down. It works out cheaper. Whereas buying each of the five chapters would usually cost you $44.25, as one they’re $34.95. (The Steam UK prices work out similarly, at £25 rather than £30.) Well, cheaper unless you decided you didn’t enjoy a chapter and wouldn’t buy any more, I guess. There’s no doubting it’s an odd approach to being episodic – certainly Telltale have meddled with purchasing options in the past (rather upsetting people with a sudden change in pricing policy for the final episode of the Strong Bad games), and they seem very keen to encourage people to buy the full load of Wallace & Gromit games in one go, only offering the bundle on Steam. But this seems to be the first time there’s been no option at all to pick up just the one chapter.
Of course, this might change in the next few days. Initial enthusiasm for people wanting to play the new Monkey Island content created by Dave Grossman and Mike Stemmle would likely see them buying it in whatever form is available. But then we’re not often impressed with this sort of thing. Of course, there’s also the rather strong argument that these are not going to be individual stories, but rather a five-part serial. It wouldn’t make sense to play episode 3 without playing the others, we’re assured. (Sell it as one full game, then?)
Any how, the point is, there’s a demo out so you can see whether this is going to raise your heart or see you ranting on forums about how they’ve ruined Guybrush’s hair, etc. I’ve not had a chance to play the full episode yet, annoyingly, but from a quick go at the demo I’m pleased to report the voice acting from the regular cast is superb, and the design is a happy compromise between Telltale’s familiar engine and a traditional LucasArts motif. In fact, it’s really rather lovely just to see the LucasArts logo at the beginning of a Telltale game. It’s like seeing Pepsi holding hands with Coke. Maybe, sniff, one day we’ll all get along.
08/07/2009 at 08:55 dishwasherlove says:
Makes sense in the long run.. but why not just delay it another 6 months and release all the episodes together as a full sequel.
I guess the best way to look at it is you pay for a full game and get the play the first 20% now… and wait for the rest.
But it shouldn’t matter as the content on offer is superb. The best compliment is it feels like a Monkey Island game.. and one of the good ones too!
08/07/2009 at 08:59 negativedge says:
What they say: “You cannot purchase individual episodes of our episodic game.”
What they mean: “Our game sucks and we wish to sucker you into buying more than you would ever want based on brand strength.”
08/07/2009 at 09:00 Mike says:
Is this actually episodic? Isn’t it just a very slowly-released full game?
08/07/2009 at 09:01 John Walker says:
negativedge – word on the first chapter is that it’s very good. Which slightly punctures your conspiracy.
08/07/2009 at 09:11 MrBejeebus says:
When they try things like this on me it puts me off, why can’t they just price it like they usually do, and let me try out individual things!
08/07/2009 at 09:14 bansama says:
Sadly the telltale demos aren’t long enough to really judge if you’d like a full series. Why can’t they just sell the first episode separately and the subsequent ones as a pack? That method works perfectly well for DVD releases of TV shows so why not at least attempt it for games too?
08/07/2009 at 09:16 Owen says:
But can you still pinch Wally’s monocle and watch the poor little bugger scrabbling around for it?! :)
08/07/2009 at 09:18 tKe says:
I prefer the idea of episodic content over releasing it as a full sequel. The devs get to focus on each episode at a time, including QA and bug fixing (we hope…). This should lead to better quality releases.
Although it would be nice to buy each episode individually, most people will play through MI content even if it is terrible (See MI4) so they’d mostly be buying all the eps anyway.
08/07/2009 at 09:22 Optimaximal says:
Telltale didn’t start offering W&G episodes individually until around the release of episode 2. They seem to just be working on the principle of ‘those who can’t wait will just buy the whole lot’.
Telltale are still essentially an indie developer – they can’t afford to finance a big, full game – by contrast, episodes allow them to get a constant revenue stream going.
08/07/2009 at 09:32 Jezebeau says:
Pay in full now to get the first of your five episodes isn’t a constant revenue stream; it’s an advance.
08/07/2009 at 09:35 Elman says:
I loved the first Sam&Max episode, but then they started getting shorter and reusing the same props and characters over and over and over and over again, and I stopped playing them.
So yeah, a good first chapter doesn’t mean much.
08/07/2009 at 09:36 negativedge says:
@Walker
Not to sound like a jackass, but let’s just say I’m dubious of the video game media’s ability to discern quality when it comes to updates of old favorites. All this game needs is some cartoony effects, a ready made laugh or two, a puzzle involving the mouse and an object and the name Guybrush to generate positive buzz. People can and do mail in 8/10 reviews of this kind of stuff. PR monkeys do most of the grunt work.
08/07/2009 at 09:40 negativedge says:
But it’s not really about quality anyway – we both know that. It’s about money. They have a brand that people recognize. The people that recognize this brand are generally hardcore gamers. The kind of gamers that will plop down X dollars (lolpounds) on that brand alone, where “X” is “whatever number they are merciful enough to charge.” The audience is largely people that would pay $40 as quickly as they’d pay $8, or whatever. Getting them to pay it over and over is a trickier proposition. There’s always something shinier on the horizon.
08/07/2009 at 09:41 John Walker says:
@negatvedge
What do you do for a living? I’d like to inform you that everyone in your industry is inept or corrupt, so we feel nicely balanced out. Thanks!
08/07/2009 at 09:44 negativedge says:
Oh, come off it. These reputations are earned. I don’t just pull them out of a hat out of some vast hatred for people that enjoy video games. More importantly, they should be irrelevant to you. You shouldn’t care whether or not I purchase any given title. And you should be willing to call a spade a spade.
08/07/2009 at 09:49 Wulf says:
I see the ardent and once-determined dissenters of Telltale’s joyous Tales of Monkey Island are oddly absent, where are the calls of the humour falling flat on its face, the 3D making it look shit, eh, eh?
Methinks they’ve had a chance to play it and right now they’re trying to use a Freemanesque crowbar to coax collective foot out of mouth.
I see the only hanger-on is coming up with absolutely bloody ludicrous tinfoilhat theories, and whose posts read like a bad X-Files episode, one revolving around the games media and apparently evil indie companies (that’s original), but a bad X-Files episode nonetheless.
But yes, I loved it, I knew I would. It’s a bloody good job and everything I said it would be. So I have to say that dishwasherlove is absolutely right!
08/07/2009 at 09:50 MD says:
It’s hardly a conspiracy theory though, is it John?
Obviously they are offering the full pack as the sole purchase option because they think they will make more money by doing so. Given that there is a ‘discount’ on the pack as opposed to (hypothetically, I guess) purchasing the episodes individually, this only makes sense if there are a significant number of people who a) would prefer to purchase individual episodes, b) are willing to take the risk of buying the series as a whole if that’s their only option, and c) would, were they to start off by purchasing single episodes, decide to give up on the series before its end.
Surely the enthusiasts willing to commit $35 in advance — based on little more than faith in the developer and/or hopeful nostalgia (well, admittedly there’s also a demo, but the point stands) — are unlikely to love the first two or three episodes and then mysteriously forget that the series exists. It’s a lot more likely that those who would stop buying would do so because they were disappointed in the quality of the games.
You can argue that it’s only a smart business decision (and perhaps a necessary one, if they’ve put a lot of money into this and can’t afford a financial failure), or that suggesting they are trying to ‘sucker’ people is a harsh way of putting it, or that so far the game isn’t actually rubbish; ultimately though, they are trying to squeeze money out of fans on the strength of hype and anticipation rather than on the strength of the actual product. Which is par for the course in the videogames industry generally, but a bit diappointing to see forced into a format (episodic games) that is naturally suited to moving away from all that and allowing a more direct and fine-grained feedback relationship between quality (well, customer satisfaction) and sales.
08/07/2009 at 09:55 gulag says:
@negativedge – Reputations are something specific people earn. You seem to be applying the tar brush a tad liberally.
08/07/2009 at 09:55 negativedge says:
@Wulf
You’re the only crusader here, love. I get the feeling you were more excited to yell at the “doubters” than to actually play the game.
08/07/2009 at 09:58 Xercies says:
This just confirms that the whole episodic games thing was a waste since even the guys who do episodic games are slowly getting out of it. I can see maybe the 2nd game after this one be actually not in episodes.
Now we just Needs Valves Episode 3 to signal the deathnell to this fad.
08/07/2009 at 09:59 negativedge says:
And, yes, really – lets talk about the failure of episodic games. Once a novel idea that had potential to deliver a different kind of content, we’ve ended up with this: an episodic game that cannot be purchased episodically, which people are defending by saying it isn’t really episodic. The other obvious example is with Valve: originally we were to get three episodes in a year. Now we get one every two years, running on heavily modified tech and lengthened to some weird almost-but-not-quite full game status. No one really seems to know what to do with these things.
08/07/2009 at 10:01 negativedge says:
Hell, at this point I’m almost certain Half Life Ep 3 will be a full game, likely on a new engine.
08/07/2009 at 10:12 Dante says:
@ Negativedge
I don’t think he’s bothered about wether you buy the game or not, he’s bothered that you’re insulting his reputation.
@ Wulf
Spot on, the angry internet man works best in a vacuum, where he doesn’t have to deal with annoying questions like wether it’s actually any good or not.
08/07/2009 at 10:12 magos says:
Why is negative dge being mean to Mr. Walker?
Given the fact that he in part runs this free resource for people like negative dge to complain about everything?
Besides, any game including the word Narwhal in it’s title has to be worth the entry price for that alone.
08/07/2009 at 10:13 Owen says:
@Negativedge “I don’t just pull them out of a hat out of some vast hatred for people that enjoy video games.”
Yeah you’re clearly pulling them from somewhere else.
08/07/2009 at 10:22 negativedge says:
I didn’t mention anything about Mr. Walker. I mentioned something about the profession he happens to be a part of. If it pushed his buttons it’s likely because he either knows I’m right or (more likely) he knows many people share my opinion. I have no interest in e-battling the hanger-ons that always populate places where the journo’s actually interact with Real People, so you can all stop flinging yourselves on the sword.
08/07/2009 at 10:22 The Apologist says:
@negativedge – there is no doubt that the episodic gaming experiment is looking like a disappointing failure.
My question to you is why be on a site written by games journalists just to read their view and then say that because they are inept or corrupt you are dismissing it.
Sounds suspiciously like you had a prematurely formed view which you are now seeking to defend by casting some unwarranted aspersions at a pretty fair and reliable source of information and comment.
08/07/2009 at 10:27 TauQuebb says:
It is still episodic, even if you pay for it all at once, you just happen to be getting it as its created as opposed to in one go, would still take a similar ammount of time in the end.
From what I have seen, its fun and funny, but I had to go to work before getting too far.
@negativedge: Don’t you have anything better to do?
.
08/07/2009 at 10:28 gulag says:
On the subject of ‘episodic games’- Focusing on those who have failed to deliver (while still delivering viable games, perhaps the more important aspect of the term) is only half the story, and builds a disingenuous argument.
You don’t have to look to far to find developers who are doing it without a lot of fuss. Bethesda have been bevering away at ‘episodic content’ for the last year, they just don’t call it that.
You may cite episodic games that have failed, but don’t be so quick to declare the idea dead in the water.
08/07/2009 at 10:28 RabidZombie says:
negativedge, in no way can the Half Life 2 episodes be called a failure. Why? It met Valve’s goals. Get shorter half life games out faster. Hey, guess what, we have had new Half Life content faster than Half Life 2 provided it for us. Now if all initial goals are set, doesn’t that make it… a success? Just because YOU don’t like the way it’s worked doesn’t make it a failure.
(Oh, and you’re wrong. It was 3 episodes, one PER year.)
08/07/2009 at 10:32 negativedge says:
No – I have no interest in Monkey Island one way or the other. I do have an interest in the idea of reviving dead franchises and episodic content, however, and these are both highly relevant to the topic at hand.
Again, at the risk of sounding like a jackass (oh, hell: lets get it over with. I am a jackass) I will say that I don’t come here for the opinions of the RPS crew, which are fairly out of line with my own, or for their judgments and proclamations, which I believe often times go out of their way to not say not nice things. I come here for news, flavor, interesting links, odds and ends like interviews and bits on games I’ve never heard of, all generally well written. Just because something is worth my time doesn’t mean I have to be a slavish idiot. Lets grow up a bit, here.
08/07/2009 at 10:35 Richard Clayton says:
Whoa, that was the second shortest demo I’ve ever played!
As the episodes are standalone and distinct then I have the same concerns as Elman. In a full length game we would expect object, location and line re-use but not in an episodic form. Telltale’s Sam and Max did this and it was jarring. If you pay for a new episode – you want new lines. You wouldn’t expect a sitcom to use the same lines in the same context week after week (I’m not talking overused “catchphrases” here by the way!).
Using this business model of paying all upfront blurs the lines somewhat: are we paying for episodic distinct content or, as others have suggested, a game released in stages?
I enjoyed the very short demo. I liked the more sophisticated inventory use but couldn’t stand the movement mechanic. What the hell is wrong with point and click the area you want the character to move to. Grrrr….
I also worry that, because the game is going to be released in small and distinct episodes, that we’ll miss out on the epicness and the complexity of a journey/quest that we experienced in the original 2 MI games and Grim Fandango where the quest is able to tell a story rather than simply offer an hour’s worth of diversion.
It’s still a good thing but I’ll wait for all parts to be reviewed, I think, before I take the plunge…
08/07/2009 at 10:36 negativedge says:
@gulag
Bethesda is a fair counterpoint. There are a wealth of others that subscribe to the “DLC” idea as well, with varying degrees of success, but that’s not entirely what I’m talking about. This is all stuff that is attached to a larger retail package. I wonder where the people are making original, stand alone episodic content that takes advantage of the structure. There are many indie titles that feel like they could work as episodes, but nearly all of them are one offs – experiments designed to test some idea they wish to incorporate in a longer, more traditional game.
08/07/2009 at 10:36 Frankie The Patrician[PF] says:
D/l’ing the demo atm. Still the same engine since that Texas Hold ‘Em Up game, a bit tiring…
08/07/2009 at 10:42 Craymen Edge says:
Can’t we get Negative dge his own column?
Each week he can make an uninformed and prejudicial proclamation, then get insulting with people when they point it out.
08/07/2009 at 10:46 Jim Rossignol says:
Ok, that’s enough griping about people, cheers.
08/07/2009 at 10:54 gulag says:
@negativedge
DLC/episodic, call it what you like. Attached to an initial full game or stand alone; again, why make the distinction? If you narrow your critera enough that nothing currently available makes the grade, then you must be right?
08/07/2009 at 10:59 SanguineAngel says:
Hi guys,
I think people may be being a little harsh on Negativedge’s comments here. Although he is perhaps a little inflamatory, he point is a perfectally valid one.
I.E. they are asking us to pay them an advance at a supposedly reduced price for a product that does not exits. Sure, we have episode one and it is apparently of very high quality. (I have yet to play it myself – I’ll prolly wait until they are all released and reviewed as my own quality assurence.)
But here are the problems (which do NOT detract from how good the episode is)
1. It is an episodic game that thus far does not allow you to purchase the episodes incrementally. It would be like having to pay up front for an entire TV series – what if you don’t like it? What if the quality drops significantly? What if it gets cencelled? You’re commited for the ling haul. Sure you could stop playing it but you’ll waste the cash. It pretty much defeats the point of the episodic format for the consumer.
2. This reduced price is NOT a benefit over buying individually if you cannot buy them individually at all. it is simply the standard price.
3. If you’re going to pay for the whole thing, why not release the whole thing? That’s again leaving an awful lot on trust. But more importantly, you’re paying a full game price. Instead of getting episodes, wouldn’t it make more sense for it to just be a single full game? I would have waited for that personally. In fact I intend to anyway.
Just my thoughts. Glad Ep 1 is looking good though. I hope they keep it up!
08/07/2009 at 11:01 The Apologist says:
@Jim – fair enough
/restrains self
@gulag – Bethesda is a good point re episodic gaming. Certainly better than HL2 ‘episodes’! I love HL2 and get excited about each new release, but they feel like mini-sequels rather than episodes to me.
In both cases though, they are episodes coming off the back of a major release like Fallout3 or HL2. It seems that Telltale’s work on releasing games purely as series of episodes isn’t quite working, at least for their marketing people. Less episodes, more boxed set now?
08/07/2009 at 11:05 The_B says:
I must admit, I was not aware you could buy W&G episodes separately – I’m almost certain I looked when Bumblebees first came out, and the only way you could get it was the whole series or nothing (heck, I added the information into a review stating this very point). So I wonder if they added that option after the release of episode 2 – and thus also add that option to this series later.
08/07/2009 at 11:06 Adam says:
“Elman says:
I loved the first Sam&Max episode, but then they started getting shorter and reusing the same props and characters over and over and over and over again, and I stopped playing them.”
Um I’m sorry but what? Season 2 had way less repetitition and used loads more scenery than the first ones, and episodes 5 and 6 of the first season used lots of variety too.
08/07/2009 at 11:08 Adam says:
The_B, you couldn’t when the first episode came out. Only near the release of episode 2. I bet the same will happen here, although from what I have played of the first game I spent my money well. The writing is fantastic as is the voice acting, and the puzzles are very good.
08/07/2009 at 11:08 Craymen Edge says:
It seems like sheer number of people aniticpating the release of episode 1 brought Telltale’s site to it’s knees last night.
So, anyone who has managed to get it today; what are the download speeds like? It took me a couple of hours to get Wallace & Gromit ep 3 when that went live.
08/07/2009 at 11:12 gulag says:
I should probably clarifiy at this point that I’m very much in the ‘Huh?’ camp regarding Telltales new pricing. I think it’s mostly the marketing wags tripping over themselve to detail a ‘deal’ where no deal exists.
I suspect that getting bogged down in the semantics of DLC/sequel/expansion/episode lends this argument more heat than it actually warrants.
08/07/2009 at 11:15 Miguel says:
I own both seasons of Sam and Max and never considered buying the episodes always bought the season, I wonder if that was the case for almost everyone, if that’s the case makes sense to only offer one option and no go to the trouble of pricing all episodes individually, if not this can be attempt to force more people to buying the all season
08/07/2009 at 11:16 Richard Clayton says:
@Craymen Edge
Download was pretty swift (via 8Mb connection). I didn’t time it but 189 Mb came down quickly enough for me: 10 – 15 mins I suppose.
08/07/2009 at 11:34 NikRichards says:
I think it’s quite harsh to start flinging poo in telltale’s direction.
They’re a small developer who likes to publish its own titles where possible, selling this as a package could end up earning them less, and the demo was quite good.
I would of thought that the likely suituation is that they could do with the capital to help fund the rest of the development. Either that or they think they can get away with turning out a terrible game, making a quick buck and ruining thier reputation.
08/07/2009 at 11:35 Piispa says:
I was already heading to Steam for buying the package when the euro price of 32,99€ rised an eyebrow.
So, once again, the yankees get the deal for 25€, brits for 28€ while the rest of us go buy a lollipop or something… no thanks, I’ll pass.
08/07/2009 at 11:42 The_B says:
@Adam Thanks, I knew I wasn’t imagining it.
08/07/2009 at 11:43 elmuerte says:
Did TellTale confirm that they’re not going to sell separate episodes? If not, then it’s pure speculation. Of course they want people to buy the whole lot at once, because that gives them more money to initiate the next project.
08/07/2009 at 11:44 LionsPhil says:
“…but why not just delay it another 6 months and release all the episodes together as a full sequel.”
Because then it might highlight that it’s not one big, well-constructed game, but a number of small, trivial ones stuck together. Also, this way they get paid in advance.
08/07/2009 at 11:46 Sartoris says:
So one of the first puzzles is maze-like. Will game designers never learn…*sigh* But hey, fifteen minutes in and I chuckled once. More than I expected from Telltale.
08/07/2009 at 11:53 Sinnerman says:
This demo was really short. If you watched the gameplay trailer then there really isn’t that much point in downloading it if you were not already impressed.
I liked it more than the Sam & Max episode that I tried but, regrettably, there isn’t much evidence that there would be anything I would find funny or challenging in it. Not sure if a review would convince me otherwise as it would have to be by a grumpy person like me with the same tastes.
08/07/2009 at 12:01 MD says:
Is the mouse-lag a feature, or just a problem with my setup? I’m getting it in the game as well as the menu, and it’s very offputting.
08/07/2009 at 12:02 Clovis says:
I can’t stomache more than $20 for a full Adventure Game, so the idea of $45 for a complete season is crazy. The idea of paying $35 and only getting to play 20% of it now is super crazy. The Telltale games have been fun, but they’ve never been great. I might actually pay $35 for an AG if I thought it was actually the Saviour that adventure gamers have been waiting for.
08/07/2009 at 12:09 Schadenfreude says:
I thought it was okay. No huge laughs, but I can see myself playing the full set and enjoying them. Still not 100% sold on the character design though.
And the interface seems to be unnecessarily over-complicated. What’s wrong with click-to-move? And for the item combination why not just click an item on an item like CMI and dozens of other adventure games?
08/07/2009 at 12:10 Gabanski83 says:
Yeah, not too keen on the click-and-drag method of movement, but the rest of the interface is fine by me.
08/07/2009 at 12:12 Andy`` says:
Just a thought: maybe it was LucasArts’ idea? Either way, it’s an interesting little experiment. And episodes are still an experimental thing for games: not every approach has been tried yet, nowhere near it, and only a few companies have really managed to keep their thing going well. But its easy to accidentally use it in the same manner as other techniques (expansion packs, DLC), and get them all confused.
DLC, especially. The title of ‘DLC’ isn’t really appropriate for some of this stuff, it somewhat devalues it. I think it’s partly down to the use of the term in the console market, with more full games (especially old re-releases) being called DLC if they’re available for download only. It makes no sense to call a new, complete standalone game DLC but that’s exactly what’s happening, and it’s slowly leaking over to the PC market, somehow, though I doubt it’ll get as bad because we’d already established download-only marketplaces way ahead of it. But as the term becomes more interchangable with different things to different people, the easier it is to lose track of some of the episodic experiments, because you can get the impression they’re nothing more than expansions/DLC/patches/etc.
Which reminds me. This is today, supposedly, likely later tonight (GMT): http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24332
08/07/2009 at 12:15 Andy`` says:
LA idea: pricing. Really should have mentioned that.
Oh, and: “And for the item combination why not just click an item on an item like CMI and dozens of other adventure games?”
It’s more obvious to someone less familiar with older adventure games this way. That kind of approach seems to be what most of Telltale’s stuff is about – assuming you know nothing, or very little, about the genre.
08/07/2009 at 12:15 SanguineAngel says:
@ NikRichards
That’s all well and good. I respect the fact that they are an indie developer with perhaps a low budget. Indeed, askig people to pay up front for the game so they have more funds is not a terrible plan.
I recall reading somewhere that the developers of the fatabulous Mount & Blade did this too.
However, at a time of official release to the public, they might offer the opportunity to purchase episodes in advance, offering a discounted price as insentive – in order to increase their funds. I suspect many might do it in order to support them! BUT to force it upon us if we want to play it at all is ludicrous. Offer the option. I recon they would still get a lot of people buying the lot.
08/07/2009 at 12:17 Sartoris says:
Well, you can always move Guybrush using the keyboard and make him run. Which is just as cumbersome as the drag method.
08/07/2009 at 12:19 Hermit says:
Also, the item combination system at least discourages the old adventure game staple of just clicking every item in your inventory on every other item in the hope that something happens.
Played through the episode today and I rather enjoyed it.
08/07/2009 at 12:26 Dr.Evanzan says:
I don’t really get why there is an expectation that episodic content should be available individually. I always saw the promise of episodic content to be that it was delivered in regular, reasonably self-contained parts. The benefit over a ‘full game’ being that you can start playing the initial parts before the final parts are complete (and, if the overall series is large enough to give sufficient time for this, to enable the later episodes to be tweaked based on feedback from the early episodes).
Paying the full amount would be like buying a subscription for a full TV series. You could certainly argue that the subscription should be payable in instalments and could be cancelled mid-season (with you only paying for the episodes you had so far purchased/played). However, I think it’s reasonable enough to expect you to get the entire season and not just cherry-pick episodes.
I see one important benefit of buying an entire series rather than individual episodes. Just because a game episode is self-contained does not necessarily mean it has to be stand-alone. If you are trying to maintain a continuing thread, with a certain meaningful carry-over between episodes, it makes life very complicated (as a developer) to have to cater for episodes being missed out (particularly if the series allows a non-linear progression). Whereas if you mandate episodes be played as a progression, and you know everyone therefore has every episode, you don’t have to worry about that but can just pick-up where the last episode left off.
That said, I’m assuming Telltale don’t do anything like that at the moment (I still haven’t played Sam and Max Season 1 properly yet, never mind the latest ones. Too many games and not enough time to play them!) nor do I assume that they necessarily plan on doing so. However, in general, I think my argument stands.
08/07/2009 at 12:31 faelnor says:
I sincerely hope that serious reviewers will not indulge in the “yeah I may not have laughed but I probably wouldn’t laugh at the first MI game either nowadays” is all.
I want them to tell whether the game is as funny, as CHARMING as the first three. I want them to SAY IT LOUD if they haven’t laughed or if they found it tedious, judging on what it is and not what it could have been if they were younger or less jaded.
I want to know if we’re offered entrancing Psychonauts-like charm or a-bit-better-than-runaway adventure. And if it’s not better than Psychonauts, then don’t give it a higher score – unlike what happened on EG with a few of Telltale’s previous offerings.
For god’s sake, be consistent and be honest.
08/07/2009 at 12:54 SanguineAngel says:
@ Dr.Evanzan
Hi there, whilst I agree with your points as valid reasons to pay up front. I cannot say that I would see this as a solid argument NOT to offer episodic purchase.
Your anology of the TV series is the same as my own, so let us stick with that. I watch several TV series, and there are many i give up on as they do not entertain me, although I thought they were interesting premises.
If a channel/producer were to initiate a subscription plan for viewing their series there are 3 things I would demand as a consumer.
1. That I pay on an episode by episode basis. This is so that if I DO miss an episode or wish to cancel my subscription then I will not lose out.
2. That if I were to subscribe mid series, the option is made available to pay for and view at my leisure the preceding episodes before entering into the season midway.
3. A trial basis for each series. If I am dissatisfied with the series after perhaps 3 episodes, then I can cancel my subscription and receive a full refund for those episodes. (unless it was a free trial period)
These are pretty standard practices for a subscription based model. Just look at something like world of warcraft.
I took a free 3 month trial. I enjoyed it so I maintained a monthly membership. I had the option to pay in advance for 6 months or even 1 year at a slight discount. I did not do this as I was concerned that my interest would not last that long.
As it was, about 4 months later I cancelled my subscription having tired of the game. I was able to do so easily. I felt that I had not lost any money in the transaction as I had paid for what I received fairly and more importantly I was able to quit without have to accept something i didn’t want – namely 2 or 8 more months of membership.
It is well and good offering the option. However, there is a certain moral, if not legal, obligation to the consumer to take their needs and desires into account when producing a product specifically for them.
08/07/2009 at 12:58 Schadenfreude says:
Hrm. Playing the full version, just beyond the demo section and something unfortunate has happened to the dialogue. Your given a choice of three or four wisecracks but no matter which one you pick, Guybrush just says the same thing e.g. I click, “Deep Gut? Elaine’s mother is here?” and Guybrush just says “Deep Gut? What’s a Deep Gut?” Hopefully it’s just in this conversation (In which it happens two or three times) but if this is the way they designed their conversations I won’t get much pleasure out of this.
08/07/2009 at 13:08 jalf says:
@faelnor: You seem to have misunderstood what the scores in reviews mean. It is impossible to find a score that doesn’t contradict dozens of other games. Look at the score in isolation. A high score means it is a good game, a low score means it is a bad game. Different reviewers have reviewed different games in different genres differently. There is no universal and unambiguous scale which every game ever made slots into and where you can see how it ranks compared to everything else.
The game is fun. I didn’t much like Psychonauts (which btw is an entirely different genre, in case you hadn’t noticed. Why compare it to that?), so I can easily say that this one is better. It is also in a whole different league than Runaway. It is a Monkey Island game, and I think it lives up to the name. More relevantly, rather than raving about games in different genres or universal review scores, how about this:
The game is fun. I really enjoyed playing through it. Apart from the stupid controls, the game works. This isn’t another failure like MI4, this one is actually good.
Anyway, there are several reviews up already. Why not read them instead of worrying what reviewers “will do”? So far, they’ve given it very nice scores, and none, that I’ve seen, have said “I’m assuming it’d have been fun if I was a kid again”.
And I agree with Dr.Evanzan, I don’t really see the problem in having to buy the entire series. It is a way for TellTale to finance development, getting some money up front, before they’ve finished the entire thing, and it lets us play the first parts of the game before the last ones are finished.
They said in earlier interviews that unlike their other games, the Monkey Island eps would be much closer tied together. I believe your inventory would carry over, and the story directly continues where the last ep ended.
After completing the first episode, I get the impression that they’re serious about that. It didn’t end like the Sam&Max ones do, with “and they returned home and lived happily until the next episode”. It ended with a small cliffhanger instead.
As such it doesn’t really make a lot of sense to cherrypick episodes. Basically, you’re paying $35 for a full game – bits of it are just getting delivered to you earlier.
08/07/2009 at 13:09 jalf says:
@Schadenfreude: Yeah, it’s just that conversation (they might do it once or twice again, but it’s not the default.) I’m not sure why they did it constantly in that one conversation, it became really noticeable. Luckily, it’s basically just that one conversation.
08/07/2009 at 13:15 jalf says:
So if I decided after playing the first 20% of Psychonauts that I didn’t like it, I should be able to get a refund for the remaining 80% as well?
The thing about this game is that it seems to be episodic in name, rather than content. Yes, there are episodes, and they’re released a month apart, but they’re not self-contained. They work pretty much like the chapters of the original games. They’re there to break up the flow a bit, and mark off the main parts of the story. But it doesn’t make sense to play them in isolation.
I consider this to be one game, the same way Halflife 2 or Oblivion were. The fact that it’s delivered gradually over time doesn’t change that, it only means we get to play most of it before it’d been released otherwise.
Anyway, isn’t it a bit early to worry?
As others mentioned, other Telltale games only became available as individual episodes a few months after the first one came out. Who’s to say they won’t do that again?
There’s the demo too. Consider how many other games you’d have happily paid $35 for after trying and liking the demo. Why is this one different?
08/07/2009 at 13:24 Sartoris says:
@Schadenfreude:
Yeah, I noticed that too. Kinda lazy on their part. I remember those wacky option were a blast in MI3.
08/07/2009 at 13:38 Demikaze says:
@Wulf,
Yep, I was well and truly wrong. The models actually emote very well and the writing is good! My only criticism is the boat exploding right at the beginning. Didn’t look too hot. All in all, it’s great to have Monkey Island back.
08/07/2009 at 13:39 Supertonic says:
Looks like there’s a nice securom infestation on this one. Stupid bastard thought I had SoftIce on my machine and refused to run. I have no such program. Customer lost.
08/07/2009 at 13:49 Dante says:
@ Clovis
$20? That’s, what £10-15?
That’s pretty tight fisted there man.
08/07/2009 at 14:02 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
@Richard Clayton
“I also worry that, because the game is going to be released in small and distinct episodes, that we’ll miss out on the epicness and the complexity of a journey/quest that we experienced in the original 2 MI games and Grim Fandango where the quest is able to tell a story rather than simply offer an hour’s worth of diversion.”
It’s odd that you bring up Grim Fandango, as that would have worked quite well as four episodes, one per year, with each ending halfway through the cutscene just before the “One year later” caption.
The only thing episodic development needs to tell an epic, complex story is for the *story* of it to be pretty fully planned out before the first episode is released. That way the early episodes can have all the hooks in them to pick up later in the series, and the series as a whole will hang together rather than (as with the Sam & Max episodes) feeling disjointed. See also Babylon 5.
08/07/2009 at 14:16 Quests says:
I liked the demo visual and controls.
But these guys seem to care too much about the kids and the casual players, and to be a sofa experience. While i want a true adventure game, not a cartoon network toy.
I believe i’ll wait for “Ghost pirates of vooju island” and hope it’s a game for adults.
08/07/2009 at 14:18 jalf says:
@Quests: Huh?
08/07/2009 at 14:25 Dracko says:
Oh, and for the record, Wulf, the demo was lousy and decidedly confirmed how unfunny this game is.
Besides anything else, reviews praising it for referencing Internet memes and Guybrush cheekily going I WON’T BE ABLE TO OPEN THIS MYSTERY CHEST IN THIS EPISODE also tells me humour is dead.
08/07/2009 at 14:26 SanguineAngel says:
@ Jaff
“Anyway, isn’t it a bit early to worry?”
By the same token, isn’t it a bit early to go ahead and assume the first episode is going to be representative of the first.
And
“So if I decided after playing the first 20% of Psychonauts that I didn’t like it, I should be able to get a refund for the remaining 80% as well?”
well, frankly if you’re releasing episodic content (and they ARE, no matter how well tied together it is) then YES, or rather, you should have the option to decide that the first episode did not press your buttons and you won’t be paying for the rest.
Of course it is different if you are buying a single complete entity. But that is not what this is. You are buying the promise of a thing, with no way of telling what it will actually be like. Sure the 1st part has a demo and has been reviewed. But the remaining 80% is entirely unrepresented.
08/07/2009 at 14:28 Dracko says:
The fact that people are defending this practice – regardless of the merits of the game in question, but sheerly on principle – is enough indication that gamers are more than willing to eat shit sandwiches so long as there’s an element of nostalgia or old-school geek-cred band recognition involved.
Bash fratboys all you want, but at least they play games expecting to play games.
08/07/2009 at 14:29 JKjoker says:
nice, so if the game bombs you get to stick the forever cliffhanged 2-3 episode game up one of your own holes ? specially when, understandingly, a lot of potential buyers won’t the game now but rather wait until the whole pack is released
or you might get the Valve treatment where the 5 episodes might take about 50 years to be released, sorry but i don’t think ill want to play it when im 70 ….
08/07/2009 at 14:30 SanguineAngel says:
Er … to clarify i meant “isn’t it a bit early to go ahead and assume the first episode is going to be representative of the rest”
Sorry, typos galore!
08/07/2009 at 14:31 TheColonel says:
Fortunately, a demo has been released to allow people to decide whether they like the way the game is presented. To me, it would make no sense to only play one episode anyway. Surely they are not going to be totally satisfying in their own right (short and lacking an ending until the last one). It would be like playing the first few levels of a title. If you decide you don’t like a game after that, you’ve still paid for 80% of content you have no further interest in playing. In such a case, surely both episodic and single disc titles could be returned for a refund?
Is this another machination from the people that claim there’s not enough content in Left4Bed to justify a sequel?
08/07/2009 at 14:33 JKjoker says:
oh yeah, and there is also the Indigo Prophesy method, where the first hour is awesome, multi-layered and full of little details we all love so much and then the rest of the game is carved out of bird droppings
08/07/2009 at 14:34 Dracko says:
TheColonel: One of the contributors to this very blog is a comics writer. He could probably tell you that a lot rests in selling a story arc, let alone a series, on regular quality from an issue to issue basis. I’m not seeing why you wouldn’t expect such a thing in episodic games as well, any more than you would with a TV show.
I’d have thought in any case that if developers wanted to market and sell an episodic series, they’d want the first few ones to be representative of a larger whole.
08/07/2009 at 14:35 Dracko says:
JKJoker, yeah, if anything, the episodic method would be an incentive for a constant amount of quality, instead of making the best moments last only towards the beginning of a title.
But it’s quite clear developers want to dodge that at this point.
08/07/2009 at 14:42 JKjoker says:
@Dracko: of course, who wouldnt want to get paid BEFORE they did most of the work and then sit down and enjoy the breeze and take a few points out of the J.Romero’s guide to game development without any rush or responsability
the thing is, once they get paid the first time, they wont be able to expect any additional money until they release the whole pack together so there is very little incentive to finish it, im sure the voodoo lady would sense a dark muddy future for the serie
08/07/2009 at 14:42 RuySan says:
@dracko, that reminds of the lousy, forth wall breaking humour of Simon the Sorcerer. Seems Telltale just aren’t worthy of this legendary series.
08/07/2009 at 14:51 Miguel says:
@Piispa
Buy from de Telltale store you pay in dollars so it’s 25€
08/07/2009 at 14:55 Quests says:
jalf:
I might buy the game because i can turn off voices and pretend it’s a 90′s game. :P
I also don’t like the limitedness of the one-click interaction. Is it FMV games time all over again(Phantasmagoria and co.) ?
I like to first do a safe inspection of an item and then actually interact with it. But i understand this would have clashed with TTG’s aim of accessibility and large audience.
This is all subjective likes and dislikes, tho, i have no idea whether the actual puzzles are challenging or not, and that’s the only important thing, TOMI is prolly still a great game.
So it’s safe to say that Autumn Moon boys already have my money cause with them you know you’re gonna get a serious hardcore puzzles tale.
08/07/2009 at 14:59 jalf says:
And how is that different from, say, Halflife 2? In both cases, you only get the content *after* you’ve bought it. At the time you decide to pay, you’ve seen none of it. (except the demo)
@JKJoker: You haven’t considered that they might get, you know, more than one customer? Once they get paid the first time, they’ll want to finish the series so that they can convince more people to buy the game — and, you know, so that they have a chance of convincing people to buy their next game. I don’t really follow your logic. Selling a game is hardly a binary thing, (either you managed to sell “it”, or you didn’t”). Instead, it is possible for you to sell many copies, or few copies, or many copies over time. The fact that the first episode was succesful means that they might now get more purchases from some of those who were on the fence. If the second episode is good too, more still will be convinced that the entire series is going to be worth it, and buy it. And if all the episodes turn out good, they’ll be able to pull still more skeptics aboard. So yes, they certainly have a motivation to finish the series, and make every episode shine.
You’re contradicting yourself. If this practice is being defend sheerly on principle, then it can not, by definition, have anything to do with nostalgia or geek-cred.
I “defend this practice”, if you want to call it that, by considering this one cohesive game. The first episode was good, and yes, while the next episode may be horrible, I fail to see how that is different from a non-episodic game. Say, the original Monkey Island. What if the first chapter of that was good, and the remainder horrible?
I don’t see the fundamental difference, except that you pay a bit earlier than you would otherwise, and you get to start on the game earlier as well.
I simply don’t see the harm in it. Every game you buy, is basically bought on faith. You didn’t buy Half-Life, Oblivion, Dreamfall or Homeworld because you’d already played through them and knew you loved the full game. You bought those games because you *thought* they’d be good. And Telltale is asking the same with this. They give you a demo, and then they ask you to hedge your bets. If you think the series is going to be worth it, give them your money. If not, don’t.
Hell, you could even wait half a year until the series is finished, and then buy it all at once. Then there’s nothing episodic about it at all. Telltale isn’t *forcing* you to buy before they’ve finished the series. They give us the option. You can still do as you would with a non-episodic game, wait for them to finish the whole thing, pay for the whole thing, play the whole thing.
08/07/2009 at 15:05 Dracko says:
You’re contradicting yourself. If this practice is being defend sheerly on principle, then it can not, by definition, have anything to do with nostalgia or geek-cred.
Unless, you know, you’re letting the latter factors cloud your judgement!
Either way, if you took this game and changed the character models and names, it would still be horrible. It doesn’t get a free pass for having the Monkey Island name on it any more than the Sam & Max, Wallace & Gromit or StrongBad games did.
08/07/2009 at 15:06 Dracko says:
The fundamental difference, incidentally, is that this is designed as an episodic series.
08/07/2009 at 15:07 Igor Hardy says:
I must say the game is excellent. And I wasn’t really too fond of either the episodic Sam & Max or Strongbad. The writing might be more charming than funny most of the time, but Tales has the right atmosphere, characters and gameplay to be up there with the first three games…
Well, it’s only the first chapter, so things might still change for worse, but I don’t think they will.
08/07/2009 at 15:08 jalf says:
You know, if you took this game and changed the character models and names, I’d still have liked it.
What does that even mean? It is designed as an adventure game. It is designed so that it can be divided into smaller chapters, yes, but so was the original Monkey Island. So was Grim Fandango.
What does it mean for a game to be “designed as an episodic series”?
08/07/2009 at 15:09 jalf says:
By the way, Dracko, have you played the game?
08/07/2009 at 15:11 Dracko says:
Why yes, I played the demo and saw the trailers and HOLD ON ARE YOU CONDONING PIRATING before I decide to fork over cash to a developer with a horrendously shit history to?
P.S. You know how a TV series is a different to a movie? Yeah, that’s what “designed as episodic” means.
08/07/2009 at 15:12 Dracko says:
The original Monkey Island was a complete game. So was Grim Fandango.
The big tip-off is the fact that they were both made from the ground up from beginning to end and sold as such.
At least my copies came on one CD/three diskettes out of the box. Don’t know about yours.
08/07/2009 at 15:12 Lilliput King says:
“The fact that people are defending this practice – regardless of the merits of the game in question, but sheerly on principle – is enough indication that gamers are more than willing to eat shit sandwiches so long as there’s an element of nostalgia or old-school geek-cred band recognition involved.”
What? Why? This is the first time we’ve seen this sort of release, and yes, it’s from an old IP we all recognise, but it’s never actually been attempted before. Your assumption that people are therefore defending this method based on the product involved is completely invalid.
“Frat Boys”? “Nerds”?
Eh?
08/07/2009 at 15:13 Dracko says:
Liliput King, I’m not seeing the difficulty here: Just because this is the first time you’ve seen it doesn’t make it a good idea. Let alone an honest one.
08/07/2009 at 15:14 Dracko says:
Igor: Really? I found this was nothing like the original’s atmosphere. Far too gimmicky and Hollywoodian, just like the ensuing sequels, I suppose, so it’s to be expected.
08/07/2009 at 15:17 Dracko says:
Actually, I take that back: It is a good idea, because people are falling for it.
08/07/2009 at 15:17 SanguineAngel says:
@ Jalf
“And how is that different from, say, Halflife 2? In both cases, you only get the content *after* you’ve bought it. At the time you decide to pay, you’ve seen none of it. (except the demo)”
The difference is that Half Life 2 existed at the time of purchase. It was already complete. At no point were you paying up front for something that DID NOT EXIST.
Sure you could pre-order the game, but that is a free choice.
In addition, as the full product existed at the time it became available, it was able to be reviewed in full. if it DID suck after the first 20% then this is something you had the opportunity to know going in.
Here, if you wish to purchase the pre-existing episode one, you must also agree to pay up front for the rest of the games wish does not even exist, cannot be evaluated and cannot be quality guaranteed. Indeed, it may never arrive at all and you have paid for nothing (although in this case a refund would likely be forthcoming.)
“I simply don’t see the harm in it. Every game you buy, is basically bought on faith. You didn’t buy Half-Life, Oblivion, Dreamfall or Homeworld because you’d already played through them and knew you loved the full game”
No I bought them because they actually existed, had been reviewed by many people and were presented by the developers themselves to boot. I made an INFORMED purchse.
08/07/2009 at 15:18 dragon says:
“What they mean: “Our game sucks and we wish to sucker you into buying more than you would ever want based on brand strength.””
And if sales are poor, they can always blame piracy.
I fear this game will just be fan-service.
08/07/2009 at 15:18 jalf says:
I didn’t ask “did you play the demo”. I said “did you play the game?”
So the answer is no? I am not condoning anything, or saying you should buy the game. I am asking if you have played it, because if you have not, I think it is a bit rich to be so absolutely certain it sucks. You could say, you know, “the demo sucked”, or “those of Telltale’s games that I did play sucked”, or “the trailer sucked”. But “the game I haven’t actually played sucks” is a bit hard to take seriously.
So you don’t know what you mean either?
Well, let me know what you’ve found out. Let me know when you’re able to answer my very simple question, “what does it mean for something to be designed as an episodic series”.
Until then, I think it’s pretty that you’re just trolling because you’ve decided that you want the game to be bad.
08/07/2009 at 15:19 Dracko says:
Put another way: Would you buy a boxset of the complete series of, I don’t know Torchwood: The High School Musical Years before the pilot episode even aired?
08/07/2009 at 15:28 Lilliput King says:
Yeah, I agree with you. It’s a pretty odd business practice, which I imagine is in place to take advantage of those players that want to get the product immediately, and as such, is pretty greedy.
Your arguments merely annoy me because they don’t make sense.
Carry on.
08/07/2009 at 15:39 jalf says:
Ok, I’ll stop here. I’m losing track of which posts are deleted and which are not. :p
In summary: I think the game is good. And if you don’t trust TTG with your money before the series is complete and fully reviewed, don’t give them your money until the series is complete and fully reviewed.
08/07/2009 at 15:44 SanguineAngel says:
hah Jalf, I wish there was an edit function here. I feel your pain.
Anyhoo, I accept your points. I am not debating whether I can buy the game later.
The problem I have with TTG’s decision here is that this IS an episodic release. Intentionally releasing it as “mini games” short episodes. They are self contained code, even if the story spans the collective.
In this situation, it seems ludicrous to me that I am not given the option to a) buy the single already existing game on it’s own or b) (presumably based on the current model) buy the episodes on a seperate basis.
I do not have a problem with the single purchase option that they HAVE offered. I have a problem with the options that they HAVEN’T offered.
Surely you must see that in a release format like this, it makes no sense to limit the purchasing options in the way they have?
08/07/2009 at 16:06 Demikaze says:
I think this will only be temporary – when Episode 2 rolls out, you’ll be able to buy the first on its own.
08/07/2009 at 16:22 Sunjammer says:
Anyway blah de blah. The game is worth your money.
Also, it was awesome seeing the lucasarts logo in an adventure game, and it was completely awesome seeing an episode screen again.
The controls are alright. Weird. But it’s good that they experiment with the interface. At least now we can examine objects and combine them.
08/07/2009 at 16:35 Buemba says:
I enjoyed the first episode overall, but I still think the graphics look like crap. Telltale’s current engine isn’t suited to rendering humans at all (At least they emote well, though).
And what’s with each Telltale series getting worse controls? S&M controlled really well, but both Wallace and Grommit and Monkey Island have been steps down from that.
08/07/2009 at 16:46 JKjoker says:
@jalf: MI1 was a complete game on release, you cant even compare them.
and for the other thing, i would need to see Tell Tale’s projections, how much do they expect to get initially ? 40~60% of expected money ? and how much once the 5 episodes are released together ? 20~40% with some extra per month from bargain bin purchases ?
compare that to a game released completed out of the box which expects 70~90% the first month and the rest in the following 2 or 3 months with some change from the bargain bin purchases ?
you really telling me they have the same incentive to finish the game ? depending on the initial sales and considering the production costs of the rest of the game they might actually make more money if they drop support after the first episode
you get me now ? i’d like to see the contract, im pretty sure there is a clause that lets Tell Tale cancel the thing and screw the buyer over
08/07/2009 at 16:52 jalf says:
@SanguineAngel:
Yes and no. Of course, more options are always better. If they did offer individual episodes it’d be cool. My point is just that the episodes are far less self-contained than in their previous games (or at least it seems that way at the moment)
So if we think of it as a series of self-contained episodes, then yes, I’d expect them to be up for sale individually. But if we consider it as one cohesive story, similar to how the original games were also divided into chapters, I don’t think the “single episode” purchase option is strictly necessary.
After playing the first episode, I’m leaning towards thinking of it as the latter. It didn’t feel like a Sam & Max episode, say, which starts and ends basically in a status quo. It felt more like a chapter in the original MI games. Something it just doesn’t make sense to play alone.
But yes, of course the more options and flexibility they offer, the better. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer that option in a month or two, like Demikaze said. It would make sense to first force all us impatient fanboys to pay for the whole thing, and then roll out individual episodes afterwards. ;)
08/07/2009 at 16:58 Igor Hardy says:
@Dracko: The original games were hardly much more gritty and avantgardish than this one. They just had sharper writing.
08/07/2009 at 17:03 JKjoker says:
ive read several publisher ceo interviews where they claim that many games are dropped on development (one from ea said that more get dropped than released iirc)
now, imagine a world where you release a piece of the game, like a demo but instead of being free, you charge them the whole game and force the buyer to commit to the whole thing, but then an alarming % of these games get dropped along the way (either no published support or the developers just die), a pretty big % of the ones that get released entirely have much lower quality in the last few “parts” since they were rushed out of the door (either published pulled the plug and released the alpha version or they just wanted to focus on something else and get that thing out of their backs), and few other games are in developing FOREVER releasing maybe an part every 3 years (aka, the Valve strategy).
Now, Tell Tale might be the coolest company in the world and completely deliver everything they promised and more, but by accepting this developing model we are opening a door that should stay closed and TT won’t be the only one, Blizzard guys already had their laugh with SC2′s “trilogy” and im sure we will start hearing many “crazy ideas” like these though the rest of the year.
I’m putting my foot down early and saying NO now. maybe when the thing is completed, I *might* consider buying it, from the bargain bin.
08/07/2009 at 17:05 Sisyfos says:
CONS
Badly optimized
Awful controls
Hideous interface
PROS
AWESOME!
08/07/2009 at 17:17 AlabasterSlim says:
Just finished it this morning. I loved it! Best Telltale release I’ve played yet.
And it actually felt like a Monkey Island game.
I suppose that unbreakable five game contract really held up.
08/07/2009 at 17:18 jalf says:
It’s no secret that a lot of games get cancelled during development. But I don’t think we are “opening a door that should stay closed”. First, this business model and the “traditional” one are not mutually exclusive. You said it yourself, you can say NO now, and take a look when the thing is completed. You’ll always be able to do that.
That’s unlike other slippery slopes/doors that should not be opened at all, like, say, DRM, where once the new business model is accepted, we customers have no way of asking for “the old way”. With Telltale’s model, you can still do that, you just have to wait until the product is completed – as you would do anyway. If their business model in any way prevented us from buying games the “traditional way”, I’d agree with you, it’d be a worrying trend. But it doesn’t seem to be the case here.
But another angle that might be worth considering:
The reason why so many games are cancelled during development is that they run out of funds. So a business model that allows them a gradual income while they’re developing it could actually solve the problem, rather than making it worse. This model gives TTG a bag of money at launch, and the promise of a further bag of money for each episode they complete. So they can afford to continue, and they’re motivated to continue.
08/07/2009 at 17:32 JKjoker says:
@jalf: games also get canceled because they SUCK, worst of all, many get canceled because they don’t appeal to the x360 douchebag public, if you thought games are currently designed for the lowest common denominator just WAIT until they start with this dev model any game that just tries to be a little different will get axed without mercy
and there are so many advantages to this way of developing that if it gets accepted you can be sure everyone except a few small dev houses will use it, you say they are not mutually exclusive and its true but just like DRM you should see how they tend to move in “waves” one does it, everyone does it then on changes, everyone changes
08/07/2009 at 17:47 TheColonel says:
Man, that was the shortest thing since MGS2! Episodes may make sense somehow, but they are so annoying. I wish to know why it is that the game’s resolution is acceptable now, but it still has the same quality textures as the previous monkey island game! Surely computers are capable of more?
08/07/2009 at 17:55 Vinraith says:
Is it just me or is there something really off-putting about the art style in the new game? I rather liked the 3D versions of characters in MI 4, but there’s something decidedly ugly about everyone in this one.
08/07/2009 at 18:15 JKjoker says:
@Vinraith: its not just you (just check the older MI5 posts) but if you asked me if they suck more than MI4 i would have a really hard time to come out with an answer, they are both horrible, MI3 beating the crap out of them
08/07/2009 at 18:24 Elman says:
@Adam
I think I stopped playing around episode 4. I guess I should try to play the rest of them, if what you say is true.
08/07/2009 at 18:29 Erlam says:
“So if I decided after playing the first 20% of Psychonauts that I didn’t like it, I should be able to get a refund for the remaining 80% as well?”
How about if I paid for Psychonauts but could only play the first 20% until about six months had passed. How is that better?
I have no opinion of the game as I haven’t even tried the demo, but only having the option to pay for a few ‘episodes’ in one bundle isn’t episodic content – it’s subscription.
08/07/2009 at 18:32 hydra9 says:
Well, I need to retract an earlier comment: I was bitching and moaning about the ‘awful’ voice acting and lack of humor when I watched the trailer. Now I’ve played the demo and I’ve gotta say – It works. It’s good! I like it! Sure, there are some bad lines in there, but there are also plenty of good lines that made me smile. Not laugh – just smile: Like what happened with Monkey Island I & II. It has the right feeling, Guybrush doesn’t look mutated and the game as a whole looks *lovely*. Well done Telltale!
08/07/2009 at 18:36 Brulleks says:
I’ll go one better – I actually did laugh at a couple of moments at least, which is something that has never happened in the demos of Telltale’s other games so far. I think (and hope) they may finally have hit the mark with this.
But I must admit, being a total scrooge, I rarely buy any game until it hits the £10.00 mark, so it will be a while before I actually find out for certain.
08/07/2009 at 18:38 Vinraith says:
Oh, and yes, this is a terrible sales model. Then again, I never get involved in these episodic adventure games until they’ve completed a season and I’ve seen reviews for the whole thing anyway.
08/07/2009 at 18:38 jalf says:
You mean apart from the entire point in the game being that he does? (or at least his hand does) ;)
08/07/2009 at 19:33 hydra9 says:
Alright, good point. Apart from the hand… :)
08/07/2009 at 20:50 A-Scale says:
RPS gents, thank you very much for covering the issue of Telltale going from episodic purchases to a one time payment method. You have been the only gaming news org covering the issue consistently since Telltale dropped the system for the Strongbad games. Telltale pissed me off badly enough with the unannounced change from episodic pricing to a strictly season based system on Strongbad that they will never see another red cent out of me.
08/07/2009 at 21:35 mpuncekar says:
Played through the episode last night. Loved every second of it. Smashed through every expectation I had for it based off of the gameplay vid. As you go the jokes get better, more references to previous MI games than you can shake a stick at, and the polish for such a quickly made game doesn’t drop.
I don’t have a whole lot to say about the pricing model. I kind of raised an eyebrow when I saw that nothing changed upon release, but they really pushed the fact that the developers worked hard on tying it all together, and for the first time establishing a season lead in the VIP forums. It’s not as outlandish as some make it out to be. Thirty five bucks still isn’t the 60 dollar price tag it would be on an xbox or something, or the normal 45-50 a pc game would normally be. American dollars that is.
And if episodic gaming is what their indie studio, and I repeat indie, is designed to run on, that is what they should do. This isn’t EA here, and in my opinion this has probably been one of my favorite releases I’ve seen with huge involvement from the devs and tweaking up until the digital release of the game. Including listening to the community to get some form of mouse control in there. Sidenote: as much as I love point and click, it would never work here unless you took out all of the cinematic camera angles and locked the camera on guybrush. It’s a symptom of 3d. They’ve handled it as best they can for now on such a crazy production schedule.
Also, I hated the art style at first, but have come to love it a lot more than the other series. First I just had to realize, this isn’t the launch of MI2. I had to give the game a clean look, because reading text, and looking at 2d pixelated renders is a whole different thing. So it should be judged as a different thing. The devs went for a MI2 and Curse blended art style as they knew those were the fan favorites. I think they succeeded.
08/07/2009 at 21:57 Bobby says:
TheColonel> RE textures: that’s the price to pay to keep the game at a reasonable download size. EMI had what, two CDs to work with? TMI episode 1 is less than 200 megabytes
08/07/2009 at 22:20 Seth says:
Honestly the price point means I’ll probably wait until the entire thing is completed, but actively getting hostile about it is just plain bizarre.
08/07/2009 at 22:45 A-Scale says:
Why exactly do we need to keep downloads small again? This isn’t the 90s. Most people are on broadband, and even those who are not would only have to spent a little more time to download a 400 mb game vs a 200 mb one.
08/07/2009 at 23:26 Wulf says:
[ Re: The self-entitled howls over pricing structure. ]
Okay, this is truly ludicrous…
To those who hold the opinion that the lump sum isn’t worth paying for the game, I say this: Don’t pay it, durrr.
To call out Telltale over it though is ludicrous, because let’s not beat around the bush here, the reason they’re doing it is amazingly obvious. Their projects recently are bigger than anything they’ve undertook before, and they’re trying to offer us greater quality. That means they need money, so the lump sum is an advance so that they can continue to offer that quality for the rest of the season. If you put your thinking caps on and consider it, it’s like publisher funding. We’re paying now so that we can have a better game.
If we were paying episodically, then the quality might not have been there. They might still have been good, but not quite as good as they are. And given the option between the wo, I’d honestly rather have the extra quality.
Furthermore, the sense of entitlement emanating from some people is truly overpowering, they feel that Telltale owes them the right to buy these games episodically apparently, and this is evidenced by the call from some to have the media launch a Quixotic quest against Telltale. Say it on the blogs, they call, the corrupt magazines are stayin’ quiet about it!
…oy vey.
I have opinions regarding games, sometimes negative ones, but I really don’t have the sense of entitlement that some people do. I think Brutal Legend is a rather uninspired affront to rock and that it’s a horrible game overall and I could personally care less whether it comes to the PC or not, but you don’t see me going around and telling people not to run stories about it, do you?
And that’s exactly what’s happening here, let’s not beat around the bush there either, some people really do have a vastly over-exaggerated sense of entitlement, and it says bad things about the individual.
Bottom-line: If you don’t want to buy it, don’t. If you want to make ludicrous complaints and call for the media to charge Telltale with pitchforks and torches, then expect me to make fun of you. A lot.
Good grief.
08/07/2009 at 23:44 hydra9 says:
I just bought the season. £22 is what it cost me. Okay, so I don’t have it all yet. But that’s not fucking bad. And at the end, they’ll even send you a nice physical copy on DVD.
09/07/2009 at 01:11 Psychopomp says:
I found it quite lovely.
I really hate the “you’re only enjoying it because of nostalgia,” argument. Is it really so hard to believe that someone’s actually, y’know, *enjoying it?*
09/07/2009 at 04:34 T. Slothrop says:
Guybrush should conclude Episode Five by having a Daniel-Day Lewis style confrontation with LeChuck similar to the end of ‘There Will Be Blood’; fed up with LeChuck’s constant meddling and purpose as a Deus Ex Machina in the series. I would.
“If I have a grog, there it is. And you have a grog… and I have a silly straw, and my straw reaches acroooss the room… I drink your grog. I DRINK IT UP!”
“DON’T BULLY ME GUYBRUSH.” {in Paul Dano’s perfect whine}
“ARGH! DID YOU THINK YOUR VOODOO MAGIC AND YOUR SCHEMES WOULD SAVE YOU?! III AM THE REAL PIRATE! I’M YOUNGER AND I’M SMAAARTER THAN YOU!”
“I’m your own BROTHER Guybrush!”
“ARRRRGH!”
09/07/2009 at 05:28 Frank says:
Error: “Telltale Games has encountered a problem and needs to close.” Did their funding dry up so fast? Oh well: at least the uninstall works.
09/07/2009 at 07:19 JKjoker says:
@mpuncekar: Tell Tale stopped being indie the second they shook hands with the new Lucasarts Milk-The-Old-Franchises department
09/07/2009 at 10:19 Bobby says:
Well, hardcore gamers may be happy with gigantogames but not all normal people are ready to spend hours downloading and installing gigabytes of game when they could really be doing the whole of it in the span of 20 minutes. I for one was happy that I could install something new without first shifting around 3 gigs of data to make room.
09/07/2009 at 10:53 Wilson says:
I played the demo and thought it was quite good. It made me smile or chuckle a few times, and cringe a few times. I’ll probably get it when the season is done, maybe when it becomes super-cheap.
I don’t see the pricing thing as too big an issue. If they called it something other than episodic content then a lot of people wouldn’t have anything to moan about. As many wise people have said, if you think it’s a con, wait until the whole thing is done.
09/07/2009 at 19:53 geldonyetich says:
I wonder if they’re ever going to bring it back to GameTap? I’m so poor I’m not sure I could even afford $35 for quality nostalgia at this point.
09/07/2009 at 21:51 A-Scale says:
Has no one noted the fact that none of your text input seems to make a difference in what Guybrush says? I choose something silly like “My name is not important” and he says “My name is Guybrush Threepwood, might pirate!”, the most generic statement possible. This wasn’t an isolated incident either, it happens EVERY time I get the chance to choose my line. That takes a full half of the fun out of the interaction in the game, as I’m not really interacting at all!
09/07/2009 at 21:52 Serondal says:
@A-Scale = That seriously sucks. Why give you a choice at all if it is going to ignore it ? Maybe it’s a bug that will be fixed?
09/07/2009 at 21:57 jalf says:
@A-Scale: That only happens in a few conversations (mainly at the beginning, just when you wake up on Flotsam Island). I don’t know if it’s a bug, but that conversation really suffered from it. The rest of the game works as you’d expect though.
The original games did the same thing once or twice, but in those cases, it was obvious that it was for comic effect only. Usually Guybrush being too scared to speak his mind or something.
I’m not sure if ToMI attempted the same, if it’s a bug, or if they just ran out of time when doing the voiceovers.
Don’t lose heart though, it’s only that conversation, basically, and maybe one or two lines elsewhere in the rest of the game.
09/07/2009 at 22:35 A-Scale says:
Thanks kindly for the knowledge, Jalf. I was hoping for just such a response. In that case my only gripes are the walking system, Elaine’s voice (I’m used to the EMI voice) and Guybrush’s goatee.
10/07/2009 at 00:32 Skittles says:
I find peoples complaints about the pricing of this game somewhat strange, if not downright hypocritical.
So you are willing to go out and pay anywhere between $39 and $59.95 for a brand new game from a massive publisher, play it for 5 minutes decide its crap and never play it again. And then say oh well it was a crap game.
Then telltale comes along asks you to pay $34 for a game, which is damn cheap compared to most publishers (and indeed cheaper then buying the episodes separately anyway). And you cry murder because this game you won’t be getting all at once, and if you decide after 5 minutes you hate it then you have apparently paid for another 4 games as well. Anyone else see a step of illogic here?
Yes it is a marketing decision, however it is a smart marketing decision. You pay a premium to the publishers of a “AAA” game for something you find you dislike and shrug. So why should Telltale not have that same opportunity? Not everyone is going to like their game when they buy it, but offering a large demo (The first episode of Tales can be 8+ hours) for less then $10 is not something that the big publishers do, so indeed why should you complain when Telltale doesn’t either. For $34 you are getting 5 episodes which equate to a longer game then most full-priced adventures or games of other genres.
The big publishers have the money and resources to offer large demos and often don’t, so shouldn’t you ask of it from them first before a smaller publisher like Telltale?
10/07/2009 at 00:46 A-Scale says:
Yes, both of your premises are bullshit.
10/07/2009 at 06:16 GekkoX says:
@Skittles:
I doubt the people who are buying full priced games without knowing what they go into aren’t the ones complaining here.
Basically, if the other games flop or if the company goes under, you’ve spent a good 34€ on a game that you only get to play about 5h.
There are also people who base their buying oppinions solely on the review of the game, but since only 1/5th of the game has been released, there isn’t much to go by.
10/07/2009 at 12:47 xaroc says:
I remember in 2005, a lot of people complaining that ANKH was a too-short adventure for the price ($20.) What is funny to me is, if you play that game, bare-bones and no frills, it’s slightly longer than SAM@MAx season 2′s 5 episodes put together and THAt costs $35.
I wonder what has happened in the last 4 years that has turned adventurers into the beaten and sycophantic lot they’ve become? As for the above quotes of $50-70 for a 20 hour game … where are you spending those inflated prices? I’ve never spent more than $25 for any adventure and for that I expect a return of about $1/hour of gameplay.
Whether their prices are fair to you is all anyone must answer for themselves but don’t piss down my back, saying that Telltale is fairly priced. The fact is, they are overpriced.
08/08/2009 at 18:31 Dean says:
I don’t see the point of a limited demo here. That’s the only issue I have with the pricing. If you can only buy the entire season or nothing, then give away the entire first episode. It’d be a hell of a marketing move, and since it ends on a TBC it’d pull more people in to ordering the whole thing.