I agree with Geoff. I would love for an Oblivion/FO3-type game to just do away with the main plot (I’ve never completed either game’s – didn’t see the point), and instead focus on what makes these two titles great and fun in the first place: their amazing, open, rich worlds.

The main quests should be whatever you decide it to be. Whatever motivates the character you’ve created.

That said, I realize the technical nightmare it would be to actually produce this – let alone while feeding the graphics whores we’ve all become (at least, judging by game sales).

The word ‘game’ presupposes Objectives and Rules, and then there is the idea that it should be pleasurable. Anyone who has played SOC knows that it is compelling, even when it is uncomfortable, mildly disturbing, and even a little bit scary-hairy.

I would love to see more 3D worlds with all the physical realism of games like Clear Sky and ArmA 2, but with the emphasis on generating a type of experience rather than A –> B = WIN. To this extent, SOC and Clear Sky do create a need to survive, but they are, after all, shooter games, and very good ones at that.

Susan

http://onlinegamesforgirls.net

@odeed/Ayekay the real problem with the convoys in Far Cry 2 is they never go anywhere, they just go around and around in a circle until you destroy them. It would of been more interesting for them to be able to reach their destination and you either fail the mission or then have to destroy the delivery in a heavily guarded camp.

I think Far Cry 2, like it’s collectables, is a rough diamond. It needs cutting and polishing to show it’s true worth but even as it is, it’s still a diamond and has value. I thought that it handled the openworld vs mission factor really well. The missions are integrated into the world, sure there could of been more variety but having to visit the towns or the bars to get a mission beats having missions flagged by great big neon beacons reaching up into the sky. Or press button to enter misson/event, likewise the side missons were appropriate for the setting and plot. They weren’t out of character like supercops taking time out from cleaning up the city to take part in dangerous road races that often caused multiple road accidents and civilian deaths. The collectables were also appropriate and integrated not just some meta object there just to improve your stats. But most of all I think Far Cry 2 managed to balance it’s open world nature and the main plot just right. Okay I didn’t like the ending but up to then the simple game objective of kill the Jackal was perfect for not getting in your way of exploring. In fact it promoted exploring (at least on the first play through) as how were you going to find you target without going out and looking for him? Too many games with an open world or at least the illusion of an open world have an urgent main plot that doesn’t gel with it’s open nature. Too many of these types of game have you either saving the world or saving someone important to you when you just want to go and see what’s over that hill or around the next bend.

One thing I hope comes from Far Cry 2 is that I want every current RPG developer to play it and see that conversations don’t have to be static. That characters can be animated while talking to you, they can sit down, get up, move around and pick up objects and still keep talking. And that you can move away and look around, that you don’t have to be locked in position to have a conversation. I was more immersed by the mission briefings in Far Cry 2 that by any RPG conversation I’ve played recently.

This is what open world game need to be : A life simulator, with NPC actually being part of the world and not the scenery. If you can gather and resell loot, make it into a “real” economy, with merchant that need that loot to make armors (not to make YOU an armors. Just to make armors). If you can freely kill people, give it real consequences. I mean, whats the fun being a criminal in a city where criminals apparently make the rules?

In order to make the player part of a world, designer and developers will need to think of ways to make the NPCs integral part of the world as well, and not just moving billboards. Nothing makes me more sad than seeing my 30 days old loot still in the hand of the merchant that I sold it to in Oblivion. How cool would it be to see some NPC walking in the magic robe that I sold to some merchant the day before? How cool would it be to see that merchant prosper because of all the crap I bring him. How cool would it be to actually see NPCs grind for loot or pick herbs?

How cool would it be if the cars in GTA4 didn’t just vanish when I turned by back to them? ;)

My problem in these games (not in Far Cry 2!) is that much like Jim, I’m drawn in at first with great enthusiasm, and really enjoy the process, but somehow left feeling disappointed and dull at the end. As many others mentioned, I steer off away from the “main plot” as soon as possible, and try to hit EVERY side quest possible. When I’ve finally finished with that, I’m an unstoppable badass (Archmage? Head of Thieves and Fighters and Assassin’s Guild?) absolutely weighed down with epically game-unbalancingly powerful loot, and I start trying the main plot again. But it seems so uninteresting and unimportant now.

FC2 does a slightly better job of weaving the “main plot” together with the side missions (second half of the game requires main plot, buddy side missions are either alternate versions of main missions or only spawn after main missions completed) but still has that clear Main Plot vs Side Quest distinction, which ruins the open word feel.

This idealized Open World we’re all seeking needs to either do away with the Main Plot altogether, or do a much better job of weaving the two together and blurring that line…

The fact that the “checkpoints respawn”, that everyone attacks you… that’s the point! It’s even explained clearly by the plot and the tapes, repeatedly. This is Africa. And the themes involved are rather interesting, and match with portrayals of Africa in movies (kept making me think of Blood Diamond) or even news…

There’s two factions, but this isn’t about the idealistic struggle of the socialist faction against the capitalist one, or the democratic against the authoritarian. They’re basically big strongmen, each of which wants more power, men, guns… Virtually indistinguishable, and locked in a permanent struggle. Then there’s all the foreign agents (and you can pick a specific one as your character, while the others appear in the game as well). The “buddy” mechanic is quite interesting, because it further highlights the notion that you’re all outsiders, that everyone is against you, and having a friend isn’t the result of building up your “Faction A” points, but rather building a rare relationship with one of the other outcasts. And the “having a buddy means being rescued” is a vastly superior safety net to “level up, +5 HP” or respawn chambers and whatnot.

You don’t become a high-ranking member of UFLL or APR as part of the plot of the game. That’s not the point. You’re an outsider. They hire you to do their dirty work, then explicitly tell you that their guys won’t know you, and will attack you just like any other heavily armed outsider who came swooping in to their guard post. You are a tolerated mercenary, not a treasured apprentice, gradually working your way up through the ranks.

The lack of XP, the deteriorated weapons, the limited inventory, no “money” dropped from bad guys, all contribute to the notion that you’re not supposed to be “grinding” enemies. Avoid a fight if you can, unless you badly need to restock something, or you’ve been specifically paid to fight somewhere.

And the fighting never ends. And in the game. That’s the point. You thought if you killed a couple guys in a guard post, APR would just decide not to have a guard post there anymore? Never send replacement guards? You thought they’d be shocked, and ask the police to start a murder investigation? No, it’s a common occurrence, just send some more guys…

Of course it’s not a perfect game, and there’s plenty of things that bother me about it, but most of the stuff people are complaining about is stuff that makes sense, by design. I’m just surprised to see so much hating, and so few people jumping in explaining all the things it does right – which is much more than just the beautiful environment…