Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising has a release date. According to Eurogamer, it will arrive on the UK shores/airdrop into our cities/invade this country/storm our beaches/infiltrate British stores/come on RPS you’re better than this/go on sale on the 9th of October. To commemorate this momentous announcement, Codies have released a new trailer showing off various weapon types which you can see below.
It appears the game’s assault is beginning in the US on the 6th October, then plans to go into mainland Europe on the 8th, and then finally arrive in Britain on the 9th. It’s the oddest Risk strategy I’ve ever seen. I would suggest releasing in Australia first, getting the easily defended two extra units there each turn, and then perhaps taking North and South America before the risky and vulnerable Europe. It’s up to them, of course, but my dad would wipe the floor with them had he a serious tactical shooter to release.
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I meant effects on the player, erm. I was thinking about multiplayer really, since AIs are usually pretty dumb. Brothers in Arms was sort of goofy, but it did make an attempt.
@Blaargh – I’ve always wanted a find some way to make morale and shock effective in FPS games. Arm A has something similiar when you combine 1) the long time it takes to get to some of the battles online, so respawn takes a long time so you fear death a bit 2) The bullett snap sounds ect make you feel like you’re life is really in danger.
I’m just wondering if they should go so far as to monitor your soliders mind say every time you almost die your morale goes down or if your friend dies near you it goes down faster and if it gets low enough it effects your shooting and speed, stamina ect maybe even to the point where your character becomes unable to be controlled.
This looks great to me so far. All the gameplay videos I’ve seen of Arma II have been confused and the player always seems to be half a mile behind or infront of the action and then suddenly… death.
OFP2’s videos look like the best combination for me. That of the orignial OFP (which I found a little inaccessible at a jump in and shoot kind of level) crossed with COD/BF2.
I can here the scoffing from here but this does appeal to many of us who want the feeling of a freeform battle without the severe learning curve. Brain Surgery Simulator or Arma II are not for me. I have a full time++ job and a family: games are a dip-in-when-I-can affair. However a game that allows me to get started but occasionally slaps me back for my bad habits: I have no problem with at all.
I guess that some of us have different hopes for this one.
I shall be eagerly awaiting the first reviews!
This stands NO chance against MW2. Its going to get decimated beyond belief. Gamers are going to buy MW2 new, buy OFP2 used, then trade it right back in.
Just wait for the dust to settle in Q1/10 and the NPD numbers are out. There will be much gnashing of teeth.
I was actaully playing a brain surgery simulator a few weeks ago with my wife, she’s a damn good virtual brain suregon! :P
AS far as OFP2 having a chance against MW2 I don’t think they’re going to be competing against each other. MW2 is like Michael Phelps and OFP2 is like Leonard Flowers. MW2 has to be perfect to win the gold where as OFP2 can be okay and maybe fall down a few times but as long as it is just released it will be a win in and of itself. It doesn’t mean they don’t both have heart or that you can’t enjoy both equally.
@Dominic White
I am all for body awareness but ARMA2 does not have it. What it has is clunky-ness in bloody spades. It does not realistically represent human physicality in ANY way.
As for the video: No, it does not show what you argue OFP2 suffers from. I see a perfectly reasonably sized weapon on the screen that represents well what would be seen by a soldier holding a gun while moving. Sure the cross hair is annoying but since ARMA has that…
So far OFP2, as much as it sickens me to say this, looks better graphically, CLEARLY runs better performance wise (though let’s face it, is could not run worse), has better voice acting, has vehicles that are actually pilotable (due to not having hideous mouselag) and yet still encompasses what one would want from an army “sim”. Other than it being made by Codies (from whom I would not buy a cup of water if I were on fire) I can see no particular wrong here.
The people who are bad-mouthing this game are just bitter about the name usage and nothing more. Time to grow up people…
Agreed, I am a big Arma2 and BiS fan, but OFP could still take this one as far as I’m concerned.
Howard are you for real? The vehicles are eminently pilotable, FBA really does contribute to realism, and Arma II is a bloody great achievement.
Perhaps you are having troubles with FADE.
lol @ people who call OFP2 “arcrade” and Arma2 “hardcore”. The vehicle aspect of OFP/Arma/Arma2 is totally arcade. Magic box targetting, hit-points based damaged, totally unrealistic handling, etc. Even the infantry damage system is basically the same as Doom (ie. hitpoints) a with the small additions of leg hit/hands hit.
The OFP engine is remarkable in many ways, OFP/Arma is not a hardcore sim.
Yeah, BIS’ vehicle modelling has always been terrible.
Yes, everyone who has problems with the game is actually a stinky pirate caught by FADE.
ArmA II actually has no bugs, and whatever issues you are having (entirely due to you I might add) will be fixed by Bohemia the day before yesterday.
Never mind that they never fixed 2/3 of the issues in OFP and ArmA I.
Anyone who doesn’t love ArmA II doesn’t deserve to play it and should go back to CoD and Battlefield.
This post brought to you by the Bohemia Fanboy Association.
Funny how defensive the OFP2 fans (although quite how you can be a fan of a game when the only gameplay footage is barely related to the original) have gotten. I’ve been insulted, told I’m deluded or downright wrong, and it has even been suggested that I was BRIBED to say that I enjoyed ArmA2.
That’s some crazy shit right there. Apparently I’ve just been won over by the superior brainwashing hype pumped out by a small Czech studio.
Could I just say that I’m quite looking forward to it, and that as long as it provides plenty of co-op fun, then I couldn’t give a shit which one is more realistic or what ever.
I’ve abandoned two attempts at writing up a comment now, its tough trying to add to this discussion without sounding like I’m on one side of the fence or the other… I was going to follow that last sentence with something else but just abandoned that as well… I’m gonna duck out of this conversation I think.
Why does seemingly every recent comments thread descend into endless bickering? It really seems like some people are actively trying to provoke another useless argument. This apparently started around the time L4D2 got announced, so maybe it’s due to RPS becoming more popular every day.
What I don’t understand is why some people are trying so hard to find things to become upset about. Alright maybe ArmA2 is more realistic than OFP2, maybe it’s not. I dont’ know. Apart from the fact that no one here has ever played OFP2 yet, why not just be happy that there’s another warsim coming out?
Maybe it’s just because people have some much time on their hands that they enjoy having the same discussions over and over again.
Sorry, went a bit off-topic there, but lately some of the comments threads here are driving me mad.
@Dood: I know how you feel. There are times where I wish a community could stop growing. For instance, I was once in an outfit in Planetside and we had a merger and the outfit got too big with two platoons running at the same time, teamspeak became impossible to use as a communication tool because too many folks were on it. I was actually somewhat glad when the number of active members moved back down towards 30 around prime time.
@ Deuteronomy
oh-oh, thems fighting words!!
Does it use FADE? I thought it used SecuROM?
No matter how realistic ArmaA2 is, imo it is still a buggy lump of coal that needed at least another six months to fix – and then it would have been everything in the three post-release patches and then some.
What surprises me the most about this ArmA2 argument is that the fanboys (we’re all tolerant of games we like, much like we’re tolerant of our kids, co-workers, family members etc when they become intolerably annoying) are all up in arms when anyone says anything about how buggy, laggy and overall poorly presented the game is. Seriously?
Since day one, we all knew that OFP2 and ArmaII were going to be on opposite sides of a different fence. OFP2 is without a doubt going to give ArmaII a right drubbing in sales, presentation and overall appeal. For one thing, its on consoles. BIS couldn’t do ArmaII on ANY console if their lives depended on it. Hence the reason it was canned. Apart from the fact that it would never – ever – pass the new stringent cert guidelines. They’d be going through cert for years on end. So the console sales of OPF2 alone pretty ensures the sound beating. Who cares if ArmaII is a better military sim than OFP2? Nobody. They’re games and you can only take what you get from it. At the end of the day, sales is all that matters.
The battle is going to be between OFP2 and MW2. The former is going to take a beating both in sales and possibly reviews and I’m very surprised that Codemasters are actually going up against it. Maybe in the next few weeks someone is going to come to their senses and we’ll probably see it moved to 2010.
That said, I still haven’t bought ArmaII and don’t plan on it until the .05 patch is out. They can kiss my a$$.
@Dood
I hear you. Thing is this thread has been brought down solely by ARMA2 fanboys being reactionary jerks. No one here could even be described as an OFP2 fan ‘cos the damned thing don’t even exist yet, but there the ARMA boys are getting all brodey…
@dsmart
LOL. Right on, man. ;-)
On the point of VOIP, our group have started using ArmA’s group channel for squad talk, and TS for communication between squad leaders and general call-outs.
@dsmart : from the Wiki article about FADE :
“ArmA 2 for the PC was the first game to use the new FADE DRM. This new technology was highly hyped due to how it works. However, within days of ArmA 2’s release, a successful crack of the game was uploaded and has yet to see any effects from FADE.”
the ArmaII article says the same thing
however the official FAQ from Bohemia’s site says the USA version uses Securom (but who knows when that was last updated)
my guess, it uses both
@ JKjoker
Yeah, even Byteshield was cracked (using our demo) recently. Some people have way to much time on their hands if you ask me.
However, how do they know that it is a successful crack? huh? huh? For all we know, Arma2 really is a perfect game in all respects and those screaming that it is a steaming POS are pirates who have the FADE version. Yah, that must be it I think.
That didn’t take long. I heard the new drm on anno is pretty air tight atm. I was doing a project on encryption, the subject matter was unmanned space probes, but really anything. Its impossible to protect a public transmission. Why don’t people stop trying?
What DRM does Anno use?
Most of these schemes are cracked due to laziness on the dev side. e.g. as I type this, apparently the Tages version of DCS Black Shark has yet to be cracked; while other Tages games have all been cracked.
I wrote a recent blog about this whole DRM mess last week actually.
@Heliocentric
Nope, Anno has been thoroughly cracked. As of writing this there are currently no games on the market that have not been cracked.
…not sure how I feel about that mind… 8-/
Ah, i’m working on old news. It was tagés.
I wish impulse had stuck to their guns on drm-less titles only. Now there is only gog i know i can chuck the game on a usb pen and know it will work reliably. Now, pirates don’t have that problem.
But if it does get cracked, why don’t developers just serve the customer and release a drm free version? Can’t be arsed i guess.
@dsmart: apparently the “scene” claims they did, but then Bohemia claims removing FADE would cause “instabilities” so in the end you get a game that is bugged to hell and nobody knows if the bugs are originally there, caused by the copy protection, or caused in the process of removing said protection.
the whole idea of FADE sounds incredibly stupid considering how fast the buzz about being an ultra buggy game spreads out though the net these days, it does give the developers a get-out-of-a-mess-for-free card tho, just blame the pirates.
@Dood I think it is inevitable that the discussions in a online community change with grow, there is no way around this. But you don’t have to get annoyed by that. Just learn selective reading on comment threads.
If you’re looking for good discussions, you can still have them at RPS. You just need to learn how to quickly identify comments that contain arguments or information and ignore the other stuff. For example, people stating opinions as if they where facts (”This is going to happen”,”Company is doing this because”) are mostly unproductive. So once you find someone answering to such a statement, you can just ignore postings from the two participants for the rest of the thread.
See Paul Graham’s How to disagree for a good reference for identifying arguments in discussions.
@bookwormat: Of course you’re right, it’s just a little bit of work sorting through the comments like that and I’m a rather lazy person ;) .
Anyway, I hope no one got this wrong. RPS is one of the few places where comments actually make for enjoyable conversations/discussion. 95% of the posters tend to be very reasonable. Quite a lot of interesting people around too.
Realistic schmealistic.
Fact: if you make a game really realistic then no one will enjoy it. When people say ‘realism’ in a game what they really mean is ‘having some consequence’ such as limping when shot in the leg. having to reload and it take time, bullet penetration physics etc, run speed.
A mouse weighs almost nothing so how is it ‘realistic for your brain to sense you moving a near weightless object and for your eyes to recieve input as if you are moving a heavy gun? If you have ever steered a boat of any size you will know that it takes time for the rudder steer to have an effect on the boat. Cars are more instantaneous. No matter how realistic it is, it’s annoying as hell to be sat waiting for the weapon in your hand to start moving when you move the mouse then for it to keep going even after you stop. Arma2 has the worste control feel in game history.
Ghost Recon was game style ‘realistic’ but it understood that the player wants perfect control of where they aim. We didn’t mind waiting for the reticule to settle but we hate waiting for the screen to acknowledge our mouse input. HATE IT.
OpFlash2 might not be as ‘realistic’ as Arma2 but there is no reason why it’ can’t be just as tactical. It looks very stable so i’m leaning to OpFlash 2 mainly due to Arma2’s clunkyness.
@Howard. You must be a parody. The problems you experience with mouselag are not universal, nor are your performance issues. Also to say ARMA2 does not represent human movement in any way is a little over the top. You’re speaking a lot of nonsense in your posts, although if you toned down some of your stubborn exaggeration you would be correct in many of your criticisms.
I think you are either deliberately baiting ARMA2 “fanboys” or being the deluded opposite, which is equally as abhorrent.
@Poita: the delay for the acknowledge of the mouse input is not because of “realism” its because current games are designed for consoles and if they were to react as fast as old pc games did to the input they would be unplayable with gamepads, the dumbness of the usual enemy AI is somewhat related to this (a very good AI that takes cover and moves constantly would render the aiming impossible without special aids like bullet time or splinter cell 5’s “marking”)
and, btw, i also HATE IT :D
“BIS couldn’t do ArmaII on ANY console if their lives depended on it. Hence the reason it was canned. Apart from the fact that it would never – ever – pass the new stringent cert guidelines.”
It’s funny – I actually shivered; shivered when you mentioned cert.
For reference, I am currently doing SCERT (Sony Cert) for a PS3 game and… oh man, it’s a real trial.
Oh, and thanks for bringing my WORK into my HOME LIFE ;)
PS. Arma2 would simply get pushed through cert – seriously, I’ve seen it happen. If a game looks like it will take too long to pass cert, they just waive (many) things.
I would think you could sympathize with massive scope buggy rough and ready games, Mr. Smart.
@ JKjoker
Yes, it is an incredibly STUPID idea and just this past week I was having the SAME conversation with Sony’s engineers.
There is nothing special about FADE. You can do the same thing in any DRM scheme that allows you to embed it into the source code. Even SecuROM can do it. As can Starforce, Tages etc.
All you do is stick triggers points in the code and have the DRM engine check those points. If any of them fails – indicating that it has been removed – rather than end the game, pop up a message etc and alerting the cracker – you simply degrade the game. e.g. you could keep incorrect scores in multiplayer, slow down the player, randomly cycle weapons, slowly reduce their health or any amount of crazy shit that you want. Including intentionally generating crash exceptions and/or assert faults.
Yes, it is an incredibly stupid thing to do and the only way to know for sure if a trigger has been tripped, is to pop up a cryptic message. Such as this one from the new SecuROM enable demo I released. Yes, I purposefully put that trigger in there using SecuROM. Only I know what that trigger means.
And for the retail build, the ones used in the demo are no longer used and they have a totally different trigger and a silent fail condition instead of a pop-up window. So any tit trying to use the demo to crack the retail game upon release, has their work cut out for them. Sure they’ll crack it at some point, but thats not the point. The point is, they’re going to have to work hard at it. And then I’m going to break their crack again with each and every patch. I’ve done this over the years which is why you’d be hard pressed to find cracks for my games. Apart from the fact that the wankers cracking these games, hardly play them and they do them based on demand. My games are niche category and anyone with half the brain cells required to play them, can afford to buy them. So they do. Making cracks a time wasting venture. And I’m still in business.
@ Nick
Yeah, if it were 1996 and I were still in a fucking cave I would. Do try to keep up. And not everything you read online makes it so. There is a BIG difference between:
1. Take Two releasing Battlecruiser in BETA form, without developer consent, getting sued, settling out of court – then having the nerve to actually use those same BC3K game sales to help take the company public. Yes, in a way, I helped Take Two go public.
So get your damn facts right before you start throwing out hearsay and trying to pass it for fact. Oh wait, that wasn’t it, was it? You were just trying to throw mud. Silly me.
2. BIS releasing – not one – but TWO extremely buggy games one right after the other and in EXACTLY THE SAME FASHION. All on their own.
@Slippery Jim
Universal? No. Prevalent? Yes. Look in on the forums, my friend and you will see how regular my experience with ARMA2 is.
As to speaking nonsense: again no. I am just honest unlike every other facet of this so-called industry. Game designers spin more bullshit that a well run Presidential campaign, reviewers take their guidance from those who pay the most or from those games they have personal wood for and end users are still somewhat less intelligent than the contents of my fridge.
People need to call a spade a spade (queue the flames from people who do not know what that phrase actually means) when they see it, but unfortunately the vocal majority in this field are so young, inexperienced and unversed in the medium that “discussion” sites are reduced to farce on an hourly basis.
These trolls are rapidly becoming the most annoying thing on this site.
But they’re overshadowned by the various fanboys who label anyone with a dissenting opinion to be a troll.
@Howard
You seem to be making a few assumptions there. Still, I think you’re right about the prevalence of the problems with the game, as they are far more common than they should be. However, suffice to say I don’t think you’ll often find the average user who’s happy with the game coming onto the forums and mouthing off their sincere delight.
I believe the most farcical thing is the existence of the two extremes either side of the fence. There are those who are labelled “fanboys” for liking the game despite its quirks, and then there are the so-called “trolls” who simply won’t have anyone complimenting the game in any way without writing them off as a mere “fanboy” kiddy, moron, or somesuch.
Personally, I think the game’s good. If my PC were up to it I’d be able to play more than just small skirmishes, but I agree there are a lot of bugs, problems and some odd design decisions. Despite this, it’s still great fun and I don’t think that should be denied to those that can enjoy it.
Criticism of ARMA2 is definitely valid, but to say you have the sole valid opinion by saying you are “honest”, no one else is, and that the problems are exactly and objectively as severe as you put it (I still hope you were exaggerating,) is to be arrogant and, I dare say, deluded.
To say that you personally couldn’t play it without becoming too annoyed by the game and how it plays would be fine and honest. To say you are the only honest one is absurd indeed.
Also, these labels of “fanboy” and “troll” are overused and far too often generalised. Somehow, however, I don’t think ‘player who tried said game and came away with an informed positive/negative-weighted opinion’ will take off.
@ Jim
Here’s the thing, the game is buggy as hell, hardly runs, has LOTS of crashes, yet you say its good?
So, what exactly is the bar for “good” these days? I’m trying to understand how a game in this state, can be classed as being “good” without any sort of disclaimer, clarrification etc.
Anyone can spot a troll a mile off. If you can’t, then tell me what you think the point of “Nick’s” commentary was and what exactly it adds to the subject at hand.
We already know who the fanboys are, so there is no blurry line there. But you have to wonder, since I own OPF and Arma, does that make me a fanboy?
If ArmA2 was bad, it wouldn’t have had me coming back with the same 15-20 guys every night for weeks, and playing until 2-4am in the morning, doing everything from realistic patrol scenarios to the RTS-style Warfare mode, and even comedy missions like a mountain bike race through a minefield, or an epic sheep-poaching expedition.
The bugginess of it all is exaggerated. We’ve encountered a few glitches here and there, and they’re annoying, but they’ve never stopped us from having a bloody good time, and an experience that no other game can offer.
And it’s always new and fresh, because every night, someone has found or made a new mission, or come up with something interesting for us to test, whether it’s something sensible like poking around mission scripting, or something retarded and hilarious like customized flying battleships with attached howitzers on the deck.
If it were a bad game, it wouldn’t be keeping a large number of grown men who should know better up so late that they’re practically zombified in the morning.
@Slippery
This is the thing, I really have no problem distinguishing flamers from people behind it t with legitimate gripes of fanboys from those who merely enjoy the game.
If advocates of ARMA2 would just turn up and discuss the problems and – say it softly – admit it had flaws we’d be fine. Similarly if those that have problems would accept that they are *just* problems and not a reason to burn the game from their sight and salt the earth behind it, we’d all get on swell.
If the majority of people would actually pay attention they would in fact notice that people like myself ARE the advocates for BiS and their products. I have bought every game and add-on they have ever produced and will likely continue to do so but with every release I will drift back to the BiS forums and attempt to provide feedback on the (seemingly increasing) list of issues I have come across and promptly get cremated by the drooling “BiS can do no wrong! Burn the heretic!” brigade.
The problem with games of the scope of OFP/ARMA/ARMA2 is that they, I believe, succumb to the same problems that 3D animators face when rendering realistic humans. The closer we get to perfecting the techniques the easier it is for the entire experience to be brought to a crashing halt by what, in other games, might have been minor flaws. A sort of “uncanny valley” for AI and control mechanisms if you will.
Odd. Post corrupted. First sentence should have read:
This is the thing, I really have no problem distinguishing flamers from people with legitimate gripes of fanboys from those who merely enjoy the game.
@Dsmart
Here’s the thing, the game is buggy as hell, hardly runs, has LOTS of crashes, yet you say its good?
It’s buggy but also so very huge you can play intensively for days and not come across the same bug again. Notably, the SP campaign is shoddily built and the bugs it often showcases are not inevitable, and can be circumvented as the top-class community-made missions have shown. Yes BIS has made a pig’s ear of the campaign and other aspects, but running around in the editor with a few squads still has it’s simple joys.
Also it only hardly runs due to my ancient machine. Performance problems with top-spec machines are too common but not universal, so when it does run well this is not longer a factor for the player that subjectively judges it.
I haven’t come across any crashes yet, bar when I put my graphics settings up to full to get 0.1FPS.
Different people will have different ideas of “good”. Personally, I’m inclined towards the sort of game ARMA2 is, and so I enjoy it despite the faults. I’ll totally understand if someone says they couldn’t get to grips with it, however, as the problems that merely irk me may kill the game for them.
@Howard
I’d definitely agree with the “uncanny valley” analogy. Also, the BIS forums aren’t the best of places, I agree. It’s a shame that the minority are so vocal in their “BIS can do no wrong” attitude, but it is a minority. The Impressions thread is quite good for a mix of opinions about the game, but you have to ignore the reactions of the fans’ to the criticism.
@ Jim
You are making strawman arguments I think. The issue here is not the pleasures that are to be found if you can work around the bugs and the game’s problems. Just because you and your close friends are more tolerant enough to ignore those and still have a good time, does not negate the fact that it is one shoddily built and buggy as hell game. Just like the one before it.
In fact, there are no less than TWO threads right here on RPS alone in which we ALL predicted that this would be the case. Starting from that first German review. There were those saying “…oh noes!! BIS couldn’t possibly make the same mistake TWICE”. But they did.
And all over the Net, those who said they’d wait it out, proved themselves correct in that, yes, BIS DID in fact do it again.
If this is the kind of game you like and its the only game in town, of course you are able to look past the rough and just wing it. There is nothing wrong with that and as gamers we have conditioned ourselves – for the most part – to do just that.
Calling people who complain about the game trolls and those who vehemently defend it as fanboys, doesn’t help one bit.
I think we may be talking at cross-purposes, here. I agree the game is shoddily built, and buggy. It’s also a marvel when it works. Indeed, I said I have no problem with those who cannot look past the bugs as I can, but we’re both equally valid gamers.
Just to make it clear: ARMA2 is a shoddily built and buggy game. But I love it! I can only offer my own opinion. Is there still an issue with what I am saying, Derek? I’m not sure I totally understood what your issue was.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DLJPr2lyno
@ Jim
And yes, we are in agreement Jim.
I don’t have an issue and wasn’t speaking to you directly in most of my post. I was speaking in general terms once I got past the part of your post that I was referencing.
btw, apparently GameStop has pulled ArmaII from retail.
I did some checking into this, yep, its a fact alright. I guess they didn’t want a repeat of the last rubbish with ArmaA