Rock, Paper, Shotgun

23/07/2009 at 10:35 Mike says:

IGN also mentioned ‘explosive ammo’, distinct from incendiary ammo.

The weapons are beginning to sound a bit OTT.

23/07/2009 at 11:21 fishmitten says:

I thought I read somewhere that they were getting rid of medpacks / pills and replacing them with adrenaline?

23/07/2009 at 11:31 Alex McLarty says:

Fix servers on L4D please and implement rating system!

23/07/2009 at 11:36 Andresito says:

That zombie on the third screenshot looks… weird.

23/07/2009 at 11:41 Lobotomist says:

There is a sucker born every minute. Valve is counting on them to buy L4D2

23/07/2009 at 11:56 Jockie says:

Everytime I play with friends it’s gonna be a big rush to try and avoid playing as the big coach guy. Friendly fire will end up making him the least favourite character.

23/07/2009 at 12:10 Jamie says:

Whats wrong with the coach guy?

23/07/2009 at 12:14 Frans Coehoorn says:

Atleast they got Leisuire suit Larry!

23/07/2009 at 12:19 Captain Bland says:

Most controversial thing about Left 4 Dead 2: That Depeche Mode t shirt.

23/07/2009 at 12:26 Katsumoto says:

Personally I think the new characters look ace – in Left4Dead as it stands I always end up with Francis or Bill, whom I “hate”! Looks like i’d be happy to play any of these guys though.

23/07/2009 at 12:56 CMaster says:

@Jamie – I was merely correcting an inaccuracy – L4D is still £27 on Steam and the Steam and RRP price at launch in the UK was £35. Admittedly very few retailers appeard to actually charge this. How you feel about that price obviously depends on your own situation and value system.

@Andy“ Various Valve staff are on record in various interviews saying that they would provide additional free campaigns for Left4Dead. That hasn’t yet happened. Of course, again taking these interviews as a promise may be a step too far.

23/07/2009 at 13:25 FatCoach says:

“Post-launch, we’ll definitely be supporting the game with DLC on both the PC and XBox 360, similar to what we’ve done with Team Fortress 2 with shipping new missions, new weapons, new achievements, and new characters.”

So each time we’ve released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we’ve seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we’ll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we’ll have the initial release and then we’ll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that’s the way you continue to grow a community over time.”

I’m just waiting for the inevitable L4D3.

23/07/2009 at 13:55 Tei says:

This is looking better.

I think Valve got taken by surprise by the negative response to L4D2.
So there was no “plan-B”, or any “PR artillery” ready to defend the L4D2 project from the toxic cloud.

New boss is something could help to cure the toxic cloud.

This really don’t look at all like a new game. Is a 1.3, not a 2.0. Is a very small incremental change.

Also, some ideas are rubish. “Fire bullets”, ok, I have not played L4D2, but lots of mods include these, and it feel and play stupid. Explosive bullets.. maybe, if the effect is fun.
If theres a L4D3, I will doubt will include it (This will be a “I told yo so” thing).

What L4D2 need to deserva the “2″ part, is something that advance the game. No idea what.

No one want to buy Windows Millenium. A refurbished Windows 95, with more bugs than Windows 95, what only redeming feature is a somewhat better theme. The new characters and areas don’t look like a better theme..

23/07/2009 at 14:26 CMaster says:

@Jamie I’d be suprised if it was ever as cheap as £25 at HMV, not exactly known for their low prices. My point was that L4D wasn’t any cheaper than other games and neither is L4D2 likley to be.

@JoeDuck – noone but the most stupid and angry of internet men are calling Valve evil. What people have said and is perfectly sensible is that they have previously given Valve an easy ride and made purchases of Valve products when they would otherwise have been uncertain, trusting in Valve to follow their tradition of free content updates, which Valve (as linked above) gave everybody good reason to belive would be forthcoming. With these content updates never really materialising, (Survival Pack was adding functionality to two campaigns which should have been in at Launch, plus a new game mode which was nice, but not really what anybody wanted) said people are saying they would be more cautious about buying Valve games they are uncertain about in the future.

@Tei – they seem to be making a collection of changes to issues that there were with the original game. IE: closet camping being godlike against all bar tanks, and pretty effective against them even, especially before tank swipe was made AoE; cresendo events not really being any fun for either team; repetivness of settings (urban/suburban) with the only exception being by far the weakest design wise. I am however with you in being slightly nevervous about overcomplicating the game with fire bullets and so on. Still, Valve have a good history of working around these issues and also of throwing out cool ideas which play-testing rubbishes.

@Rei – I’ve said before when playing L4D with friends that I hoped any “Tier 3″ weapons were effectivley “support” weapons, seeing as Tier 2 survivors were already very powerful. So I’d hope for a single shot grenade launcher, forcing the other survivors to cover for the heavy-weapons totings one, who could only fire occasionally – but to great effect when they did. A flamethrower or mounted weapon are other obvious support ideas, as would (possibly) be a serious sniper rifle.

23/07/2009 at 14:30 Matt says:

I’m a little confused about the idea of boss infected. I thought the idea behind L4D1 was the unpredictability of horde and special infected spawns. Doesn’t a boss infected introduce predictability into the game? Or is it “at the end of a map, but you don’t know which map on a campaign”?

23/07/2009 at 14:39 Dave says:

You know what I don’t hate? Pink Depeche Mode t-shirts.

Helps go against the stereotype that I feared was inevitable for a pissed-off-looking southern black woman. She’s my new favorite character (among these four, anyway).

23/07/2009 at 14:48 LQB says:

I love it when L4D2 comes up in discussion, because it makes people say the stupidest shit I’ve ever seen.

23/07/2009 at 14:54 Tei says:

@Lumpi: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=DLC

http://store.steampowered.com/app/10604/
“This Downloadable Content requires the base game Empire: Total War™ in order to play.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack
Example of use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Empires

Seems to use Expansion pack, too:
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=Expansion+pack
http://store.steampowered.com/app/25920/
“Argos Naval Yard is an expansion pack that requires you own Sword of the Stars Ultimate Collection or A Murder of Crows.”

Only the editor of steam store know the difference from DLC to expansion pack.

23/07/2009 at 15:11 psyk says:

Anyone know where to get the movie posters in high res?

23/07/2009 at 15:28 JoeDuck says:

@Tei:
Hmmm…
You’re right, maybe those examples were not the best because they were too console centric.
In that case, let’s compare L4D to other PC titles with long content at launch time and free updates that are certainly NOT getting yearly updates that need to be paid, for example, Call of Duty 4. Or Crysis. Or the extra units of Empire. Or, dare I say it, WOW.
My point is that Valve, even with L4D (I do not see L4D as short or under supported, but I will accept this is my personal perception) is still head and shoulders above everyone else of the big boys. Yes, even in the “capitalistic” PC market.
I see what you mean with this “pleasing to everybody”,
it’s a compelling argument, that Valve are actually just greedy grey suits selling out to the monopolistic forces of the console. If that is the case and that hinders some persons from enjoying the game, then we are spending too much time on the internets and have lost our innocence.
I for one will try to enjoy the best games available to me, in the present and in the future.
Today L4D is one of those.
I see nothing to tell me that L4D2 will not be another one.

23/07/2009 at 15:33 Jamie says:

“Can’t you just play L4D1 to see what’s in L4D2?”

“I love it when L4D2 comes up in discussion, because it makes people say the stupidest shit I’ve ever seen.”

23/07/2009 at 15:58 A-Scale says:

I learned my lesson on L4D. I won’t be buying this.

23/07/2009 at 16:14 Jamie says:

I cant compare L4D2 with the orange box but L4D1 is far superior to it. Though Portal is something new it takes all of 2 hours to finish, as does episode 2. And TF2 is so dull.

23/07/2009 at 16:35 JoeDuck says:

@A-Scale:
Could you please develop your point?
What lesson did you learn on L4D?

23/07/2009 at 16:51 JoeDuck says:

@lumpi:
I loved, really loved the OB. But think it again. They released 3 of the best games in history in one box. Portal was there for filling up a little, for god’s sake.
What do you want next, Valve’s Purple Box with 4 of the best games in history?
Yes, L4D was such a let down, it was only ONE freaking amazing game.
When do we stop raising the bar and enjoying the freaking games?

23/07/2009 at 17:13 j c says:

Left 4 Dead 2 has a lot more stuff in it than all of Left 4 Dead + the Survival pack put together. That’s all there is to it, all there has to be. Left 4 Dead was easily worth my money, and if Left 4 Dead 2 has more new stuff in it than Left 4 Dead 1 had, I’d say it has a damned good chance at being with the money too.

Left 4 Dead 2 is cohesively put together. Every single campaign is designed from the ground-up to support brand new boss monsters, brand new items, brand new AI capabilities, brand new graphics engine capabilities, and a brand new gameplay mode that hasn’t been revealed yet.

-If new boss zombies were released as DLC, every old campaign would need to be significantly overhauled to support them

-If new weapons were introduced, they couldn’t do anything significantly different, because the existing AI and level designs would need to be overhauled to take advantage of them

-If new campaigns were released one-by-one, there would be no point in bringing out new gameplay elements that are only supported by the new campaigns. Whoopie, a single new campaign here and there with new stuff that the old levels don’t support. Unless, as before, they go and overhaul the original campaigns to support all of them.

-If the new AI director improvements were implemented in Left 4 Dead 1, again, it would require overhauling the existing campaigns to support every new feature

And every time new incremental DLC was released, it would require yet another pass of the old stuff to make sure the new stuff is compatible with it, and that the old stuff has enough opportunities put into it to use the new stuff in.

Could it be done as incremental DLC? Yeah, probably. But thanks to all the overhead that incremental DLC presents instead of the opportunity to bring out everything in one fell swoop, it would be many many years before we saw anything anywhere near Left 4 Dead 2′s content.

In the meantime, there’s still more campaigns and stuff coming to Left 4 Dead 1 during the Summer, as Valve has said countless times, so that fills the gap of new campaigns with the same gameplay elements we’re used to now, not introducing new stuff that would require redesigning the old campaigns.

23/07/2009 at 17:57 j c says:

Interesting. Left 4 Dead 2 is out already? It’s already been released, already fixed problems in the original game? Valve is already charging people $50 for the sequel, already “robbing” you? You’ve already been “taken for mugs”?

Funny, I could have sworn that it’s still 4 months away, with Valve saying that there’s more stuff coming to Left 4 Dead well before Left 4 Dead 2 comes out. It’s november already? When did that happen?

23/07/2009 at 18:32 sigma83 says:

Whatever it is, I just want more movie posters from Valve. Those rock.

23/07/2009 at 19:05 Dominic White says:

So, from what I’m seing, L4D2 will be:

Longer than the first game
More plot-driven, with a stronger cast of characters
Have way more weapons/enemy types
New gameplay elements
Backwards-compatibility with L4D

This sounds like not only a full sequel, but a very good sequel at that. I’m fairly sure that Halo 2 offered less over Halo 1 than this. Valve have/are supporting the first game, and modders are now churning out maps, it has a traditional server browser now…

I am, at worst, mildly irked that Valve haven’t released any new monsters/weapons for L4D, but I’ve gotten plenty of play out of the first, and if the sequel can improve on that in pretty much every respect, I’ll be buying it.

I can’t even imagine being furious over this. It just strikes me as the most childish and immature thing gamers could do.

23/07/2009 at 19:10 Funky Badger says:

It just strikes me as the most childish and immature thing gamers could do.

Now, now… ttht’s a preeeeeeety big claim right there, mister.

23/07/2009 at 19:22 ZenMetzger says:

Sometimes It is so good to be the drooling simpleton easily distracted by lights and noises…

My only conscious though after seeing L4D2 was: “Moar zombies, uh, and melee weapons! YES!”

Why do smart people must overcomplicate everything… Its is a new zombie game with chainsaws and gore and stuff, and not made in japan… that’s good, no?

23/07/2009 at 19:27 Fabian says:

I love the spitter idea. No more hidding in rooms. That really hated that. Theirs no strategy. I hate people that misuse a sweet level jsut to hide in hidden room and actuallt blame valve for it. Go spitter and all the naggers and noobers and campers. SPit on you. It´s just a few quid. Stop nagging.

23/07/2009 at 19:28 Psychopomp says:

@Zen

You’re confusing overgrown manchildren with “smart people.”

It’s okay, we all make that mistake sometimes.

23/07/2009 at 19:34 Psychopomp says:

On another note

Do the people in the L4D2 boycott steam group realize how god awful and childish that avatar is?

It’s okay to have concerns, but they come off as a group of twelve year olds who just want free stuff…

23/07/2009 at 19:41 l4d2fan says:

Ak fucking 47′s OMG!!!!

23/07/2009 at 19:49 Funky Badger says:

amount of content usually associated with a full-priced title.

That’s a very nebulous concept. Could you quanitfy it, 6 campaigns, 8?

23/07/2009 at 20:04 CJohnson03 says:

Probably when they have a long, long track record of amazing games with plenty of support and free content. Y’know, like Valve does.

23/07/2009 at 20:14 suibhne says:

@Funky Badger: Here’s some assistance – take a look at CoD4. 6- to 8-hour SP campaign, then a ton of MP – including extensive community mod support out of the box.

For the same price, L4D delivers a 4- to 5-hour SP campaign (if you count playing through all the campaigns with bot allies), then a ton of MP – but with limited community mod support not being provided until over 6 months after release.

I don’t think anybody’s whining about L4D2…or if they are, they shouldn’t be. ;) L4D2 looks like a kickass game, to call a spade a spade. I think the heartburn is over the fact that some of us feel L4D delivered about $30 of content, not the $50 that we paid for it. Fwiw, I’d be perfectly happy with the game if I hadn’t, full to the brim with faith in Valve, pre-ordered it at full price rather than waiting for a good sale.

Oh well, you get burned sometimes – no big. The source of my disappointment is that I just never expected to feel burned by Valve.

(And, to forestall silly straw-man arguments, no, I’m not claiming any objectivity for my assessment; it’s very much my opinion, based on what I like in my games. I know some of you sunk as much time into L4D as I did into CoD4 or UT2k4, and more power to you.)

23/07/2009 at 21:18 Funky Badger says:

@suibhne: fair enough! I didn’t get on with CoD4 MPlayer, found L4D much more engaging – (at least mod-kit support out of the box is a measurable requirement)

Vinraith: also, fair enough. Presumably Valve have done their sums and think they’re going to back more than they lose doing this – I hope they do…!

23/07/2009 at 21:27 Gorgeras says:

@Psychopomp, my post was partially in response to the post directly above mine. What made you think I’d missed it?

You’re not the only one putting words in other’s mouths: JC too seems unable to reign in the incoherent and somehow managed to contort my post into a claim that Left 4 Dead 2 is already on sale.

Left 4 Dead will have significantly less players once number 2 is out. Whatever content we are likely to get between now and then(unlikely to be a full new campaign) is moot. Valve is playing on a technicality by arguing they will ‘continue to support’ Left 4 Dead when it really doesn’t matter: it will no longer be played much and will suffer an exaggerated effect of what others multi-player games get when an expansion pack is released because this will be a wholly new stand-alone application.

The very strong impression given prior to the release of the original game was that this would be supported like Team Fortress 2. This assurance was given against a back-drop of very widespread and serious criticism about how small Left 4 Dead was and I’ve yet to actually see any explanation from games journos what actually changed their mind on this because they’re so damn uncritical now. Left 4 Dead will now never become the full-game that would justify the full-price tag it had in shops and on Steam for the first few months.

There has only been one serious criticism of Valve in PC games journalism in the wake of the Left4Dead Boycott group starting: those who bought the game first, for full price were the most loyal and dedicated fans. The boycott group is made up of the most loyal and dedicated fans. The most loyal and dedicated fans were shafted by how Valve handled the new franchise.

As has already been said repeatedly but the Malignant Militia as always, the fake fan-base, never want to deal with the moral argument: Valve can either be some other business and be treated like any other business or they can behave to the standard they previously held to and be respected and have generous amounts of goodwill heaped on them.

It’s no defence to say they are a business when this is precisely the basis of the attack on them. Those that use this pathetic rhetorical non-argument truly don’t seem to understand what they’re arguing with.

23/07/2009 at 22:26 Psychopomp says:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinedFOREVER

Just noticed L4D2 is listed there.

“my post was partially in response to the post directly above mine. What made you think I’d missed it?”

This means he listed reasons as to why they can’t just stick stuff in L4D1, and you basically said “No, shut up, you’re dumb.”

23/07/2009 at 22:30 Gorgeras says:

No the question Psychopomp is; what if Valve supported Left 4 Dead 2 in the style of Team Fortress 2: what they promised for Left 4 Dead but swanned off to make the sequel instead?

23/07/2009 at 22:51 Gorgeras says:

If it’s inevitable, Valve has little to lose and much to gain by agreeing to the requests made by the boycott group:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott

Everyone will be happy and the only question remaining will be why Valve decided on such a ridiculous business strategy with the sequel to begin with.

But I suspect the reason why Valve does not appear to actually be addressing the arguments put to them and have almost every games journalist being a useful idiot is that they plan on making Left 4 Dead 3 shortly after.

23/07/2009 at 23:52 Chemix says:

I am against L4D2 because it looks to have a similar amount of content to L4D1, which was not worth $50 dollars US that was the retail price. It’s content level was similar to that of TF2 with the gold rush (payload) update, which costs $20. 4 maps, albeit 4 long maps, and 2 of which copied with spawn edits for versus mode, doesn’t equate to 30 bucks more value than TF2 which is also heavily MP based. I bought L4D on sale for $30 which was adequate for me, if a little over priced, it should have been 25 dollars ($24.99, and frak whoever came up with the 99 cent price ploy, it’s annoying as hell to calculate tax in a store with everything at some dollars and 95/ 98/ 99/ 92 cents).

L4D2 seems to use most of the same concepts as L4D1, the AI director, the 4 survivors (why 4 again? oh, that’s how many can split a TV screen via xbox), starting smgs, pistols, and pump shotguns, which lead to assault rifles, etc. etc, perhaps a bow now. You survive a trip from A-to-B and fight a big battle at the end.

We’ve only seen 2 campaigns, but I’m not sure if that’s even what’s worrying people. I think it has to really do with the shock that Valve would release a sequel a year later; this is Valve we’re talking about, the people that made the term “episodic” meaningless with their 2-3 year apart “episodes”, the people that took 6-7 years to do a sequel to their original product, the people that have no release dates (beyond, “when it’s done”), this is the Valve that we know for tedious bug testing (which could have been applied better to L4D) and for cutting a product down to the smallest possible item and polishing it to a mirror shine: IE HL2 (which though bugged, was quite playable despite being so tremendously scaled down from it’s original epic plot) TF2, the “episodes” and Portal.

Also, the fact that the PR for the third episode, or fourth game of the second installment of their most loved franchise is non existent. I want to see the TF2 PR team working on PR for HL2 Episode 3, my, that would be awesome, it’d be like we could actually enjoy adverts, verus their 30 minute gameplay trailers for episodes 1 & 2 (which sucked, Episode 2 had much better announcement material, but the later trailers still sucked). Meet Gordon Freeman….’s Crowbar, yeah, he doesn’t talk much either, but he’s got a hell of a hook.

24/07/2009 at 00:47 Nalano says:

So lemme get this straight, because I’ve been devoting most of my time these days to bitching about Bethesda, Games for Windows Live, Pat Buchanan, Birthers, Electronic Arts, the Department of Education, developers who only produce for consoles, Microsoft in general and Vista in specific, Blue Dog Democrats, Rush Limbaugh and the Cambridge Police so I haven’t had the chance to complain about Valve, yet, so I wanna get it all right in my mind:

L4D came out holiday season 2008 and it was a hit. Everybody and their mother put in 50+ hours on it because they loved it so much (like they do most Valve games) and it became, if not Portal, then at least a minor cult smash (like most Valve games become) and all was good. The only caveat was that there were only 4 campaigns, and after 50+ hours they didn’t have the oomph they once did.

Eight months later, Valve announces a sequel, L4D2, that professes more weapons, more enemies, more pithy one-liners, more campaigns and a motherloving cricket bat, and people are complaining that they could have spent that energy making free updates to L4D instead.

As I see it, if it didn’t come in the box on Day One, it shouldn’t really have been expected – we don’t all live in the subscription model of MMOs yet. It sounds as if the only real problem people are having is that they’re releasing a sequel too soon and if they just waited another year and offered the exact same thing, everybody would be happy.

This, I propose, is why Valve isn’t so perturbed about the backlash. Other developers would give their left eye to be in the position Valve is in right now: Able to produce a high-production value sequel within a year of the original? If only they all had that manpower…

24/07/2009 at 02:02 Y3k-Bug says:

A question though:

How is it a sense of entitlement is Valve said they were going to do it? I mean, no one assumed it, they came right out and SAID it.

24/07/2009 at 02:18 TheColonel says:

By the pre-order numbers it looks like there were a lot of people who felt that the first one was worth the money. Why don’t the rest of you just join the boycott site and stop talking about it? Honestly, the only basis there is for being outraged, aside from the idea that it will split the community, is if you personally feel you didn’t get your money’s worth. Since that is entirely subjective, spouting your opinion everywhere isn’t going to convince anyone else to change theirs. There are a million and one games that do not provide the variety of experience that Left4Dead did, even though it was the same campaign. Flight Simulator had a lot of landscape, sure, but every time you got in a plane all you really did was fly around above it. I don’t recall any resident evil game being much longer than Left4Dead anyway.

24/07/2009 at 02:26 Nerd Rage says:

All I have to say about that new mission poster is that the two in the middle have no concept of muzzle discipline. The woman has her rifle sitting back on her shoulder, pointed dangerously close to the head of the guy behind her, and he’s got his rifle pointed straight at her kidneys.

Friendly fire is going to be a bitch with these two on the team. Especially if there are grenade launchers involved later on.

24/07/2009 at 02:39 Psychopomp says:

“I am against L4D2 because it looks to have a similar amount of content to L4D1, which was not worth $50 dollars US that was the retail price.”

Shadow of the Collosus

Beyond Good and Evil

Ico

24/07/2009 at 02:47 Psychopomp says:

@Invisiblejesus

I’ve tackled that question time and time again, in other threads, even on other sites

All that you ever get as a response is “THEY PWOMISED!”

I find it’s not worth it anymore

24/07/2009 at 03:02 Psychopomp says:

No, I was very aware who it was directed at.

24/07/2009 at 03:06 MD says:

(As usual I seem to have posted out of sequence — my comment was @ Psychopomp’s comment from 2:47 am, not the most recent one.)

24/07/2009 at 03:12 Psychopomp says:

I can’t be arsed to dig it up, but basically it sums up to “They have a 360 version to worry about, and they can’t even get in what they’ve released for TF2 on the 360, due to memory constraints.”

24/07/2009 at 03:21 Gorgeras says:

He doesn’t want to answer it; it’s an awfully similar answer to one a poster on the Steam forums just made and just makes no sense.

24/07/2009 at 03:45 Psychopomp says:

@invisiblejesus

So you’re telling me you’ve never promised something, only to find out later you can’t go feasibly go through with it?

Yeah, sure.

24/07/2009 at 03:55 Psychopomp says:

Number of olive branches extended by boycott group, to Valve:0

With that damn avatar, and the general attitude in their comments, it’s really hard to take them seriously.

@Jalf

As long as you tried your damndest to follow through?

Yeah, kinda. I’m not the type to hold a grudge. Hell, I was with the steam boycott group at the beginning.

And I want to punch everyone in the face who ever complained about the “lack” of content. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. If you don’t think Ico, Call of Duty 4, Beyond Good and Evil, and Shadow of the Collosus were worth $50 because of their length, you need a kick in the rear.

While we’re at it, here’s something the boycotters always dodge.

Let’s say Valve *did* release it as incremental DLC

Is $10 per campaign some how not reasonable?
Let’s say

24/07/2009 at 05:05 derfalconer says:

1)You’re blind
-I guess nothing in the gameplay videos I have seen jumped out at me as “This is a new experience and game as a whole that is worthy of being a standalone title and not just a good expansion”. Fair enough, maybe I am blind, I’ll schedule an appointment with an optometrist asap.

2)Concerning the animation, don’t fix what isn’t broken
-to a point sure, the animation works fine. Why is it the same animation for 8 totally different people (culturally, physically, stylistically) in 2 far removed locations? for the sake of less argument lets just say it’s an annoyance of mine.
3)There’s more to a sequel then new weapons, and characters.
-new SI, new more humid locations, and things that so far haven’t been released or fully explained yet. Sure.
4)In the unlikely event that you are correct, how does this make it any different from, say, Fallout 2?
I don’t know whether it will or whether it wont be different in the end, this is all speculation.

24/07/2009 at 09:14 JoeDuck says:

@MacBeth: Wow man, i’ll try to have you on my team if we meet in vs, 76000 zombies is a lot of zombies… :-)

@all the angry boycott people:
It’s simple. There are 2 sides to this story.
One side is full of braindead morons who believe all the lies that Valve tells them and plays their games and kill 76000 zombies. :-)
The other side holds the torch of purity, says what is right and what is wrong, defines the moral standard that should be met by the company and represents the “loyal fanbase”. If it’s not as good or as free as they demand, they get moving, go to forums and actively hunt down any information to say that Valve is wrong, that they have sold out and they should stop their practices and give stuff for free, forever. And they vow to not kill any more zombies until right is right.

Well… MacBeth is currently 58000 zombies ahead of me, so i’m going to stay in the first side, thank you very much. Please drop by sometime and tell us how are you doing.

24/07/2009 at 09:25 Loves L4D2 says:

ok can people please stop whinging about it should be DLC blah blah blah it should be called L4D 1.3???
come on guys they (Valve) made a great game alst year and they are making an even better game this year it all sounds fresh and good and i will be one of the ppl lining up and buying it on the release. so firstly does any over developer out there release DLC for free???
nope so stop bloody whinging ok thats all im all raged out it will be a great game and cant wait for the demo!!

24/07/2009 at 09:55 Jamie says:

‘Oh no!! I’m going to have the choice of spending £25 on a new game in 6 months time! Disaster!!!’

Arguement against boycotters – get over it?

24/07/2009 at 14:32 Gorgeras says:

@Psychopomp

“Number of olive branches extended by boycott group, to Valve:0

With that damn avatar, and the general attitude in their comments, it’s really hard to take them seriously.”

It is EXTREMELY easy to take the comments of grass-roots members of any group and then represent it as the general nature of the whole: BNP grass-roots are almost indistinguishable from Labour, LibDem and Socialist-Labour grass-roots in their manners and views.

Why not try doing something that’s not easy? How many olive branches have Valve asked for? Just one: “trust us” and they were given a dozen very good reasons why the answer was “no”, citing actual examples where trust in Valve was misplaced over Left4Dead. You haven’t explained why Valve need olive branches extended to them; what would they actually do if this happened? The Boycott group at least says what would change their opinion.

Why are people so hung up on the avatar anyway? If they had a serious avatar, people would say the group is stuck-up but because they don’t it’s *easy* to throw the accusation that they are childish. Where is the actual complaint about the avatar or is this another red herring?

24/07/2009 at 16:48 Chemix says:

seeing as my post is mostly ignored by the masses I’ll ask a question now: I haven’t bought a t-shirt in a good, 7 or so years, so who the frak is depeche mode, and why do people care?

24/07/2009 at 17:54 Stupoider says:

http://kotaku.com/5321720/left-4-dead-2-has-bulletproof-zombies-too

Kevlar-wearing uncommon Infected. I’m starting to like this sequel. 8D

24/07/2009 at 18:14 Tei says:

“kevlar zombies” could be interesting. Is another bit that may add variety to the game. Somewhat fun the discussion on Kotaku. I think Witzbold is wrong here, and the guys “but is a gamey!” are right.

24/07/2009 at 22:09 Psychopomp says:

“Why are people so hung up on the avatar anyway?”

It’s a glaring beacon of arrogance. It’s like if this was called “Rock, Paper, Fuck you:PC gaming because consoles are for nubs,” or those “hardcore,” gamers who go around calling everyone a scrub, or if I walked around in a shirt that said “Fuck you, I’m from Texas.”

Not to imply that all of us Texans *don’t* think that on at least a subconcious level >_>

25/07/2009 at 01:09 derfalconer says:

“Oh man, look at these shitty games.”

Sorry, did I say anywhere that l4d2 would be a shitty game? It’s ok, I can wait for you to not find those sentiments in my posts. I have a problem with how the game is billed as a sequel, standalone full priced game, not at all with ANY of the content contained in it.

25/07/2009 at 02:47 Psychopomp says:

@Derf

“I have a problem with how the game is billed as a sequel, standalone full priced game.”

“People who point out the ‘massive’ amount of new content in the next game when compared to the first seem to never mention or acknowledge that you are paying the same full price for a game running the same engine plus reskinned models and some gimmicks. Have you watched the gameplay videos? The shove animations are the same, the guns are simply reskinned so much of the game is just recycled l4d with ‘new and exciting’ scattered about.”

“They just added in some new characters, maps, and weapons, recorded some new dialogue, and reskinned a bunch of shit.

The lazy gits even re-used some of their old characters, *and* are using the same engine! WHAT DO THEY TAKE US FOR?”

Read past the first sentence, champ.

@Gorg

“Ahem, none of your examples Psychopomp made their predecessors virtually obsolete like Left4Dead 2 will it’s predecessor. ”

Good luck finding a game of Dominions 2, Diablo 2, or about a million other games.

“So, what is the actual criticism of the Boycott avatar?”

It’s childish, arrogant, immature, and not in a good way, either. They’d be far better off with just “L4D2 Boycott” as their avatar, or some shit.

Imagine you’re in the middle of a business negotiation with someone. Imagine you don’t like part of the deal, and flip them off.

Imagine you’re in court, and someone is testifying against you. Imagine you flip them off.

Do you get a good response from that?

Or is giving someone the finger a mature way of expressing distaste all of the sudden?

“It’s very hard to come away with any conclusion other than that there is absolutely no unique avatar that will not be a problem, simply because people want there to be a problem.”

If it was something more mature, I might not view everyone in the steam group as a spoiled brat. Just the admin, whose posts reek of ignorance, and arrogance.

25/07/2009 at 05:26 Zally13 says:

My god, sure they may have taken the idea of the Charger, or something else, but good god, that’s a good thing that they added it into the game to improve it.

25/07/2009 at 08:04 Y3k-Bug says:

See the reason why many people can’t see eye to eye with each other on this issue is due to all the hyperbole.

I don’t feel Valve is giving me a fair shake with L4D2. I think its too soon after the first game, and the content of it is what should be in the first L4D.

Does this mean I think L4D2 is “bullshit” or “not good” or “gimmicky”? Absolutely not. Do I think the people who will buy the sequel are “sheep” or “dumb” or “assholes”? Absolutely not.

I just think the sequel is something of a ripoff. Will I be buying the game? No. I rather hope that others who feel the same as me will choose to tone down the rhetoric a bit, so our argument doesn’t sound so… crazy.

25/07/2009 at 08:27 Bran says:

Got a point about the medpack, And also…I wish valve would stick with the original characters…You know?
It’s not like they all DIED…

25/07/2009 at 09:11 Evan says:

Rochelle has a Depeche Mode T-Shirt! I now take away all negative comments I made about this game!

25/07/2009 at 12:00 Jixxi says:

Whats with all the “i hate people that hide in a room tactics” ??!! If you don’t like it, then don’t f’***ing do it! -.- omg noobs.. and damn.. whats with that lady character?? she’s like way too feminin, who would run around looking like that in a zombieapokalypse, no scars or anything? it would be sooo easy to rip those earrings out, she looks like she is going to a club or something -.- damn i’m am soo gonna dl a skin 4 her…

25/07/2009 at 13:30 medic! says:

Medic! Need a Dispenser Here! Spy sappin my sentry!
SPY CHECK!SPY CHECK!SPY CHECK!SPY CHECK!SPY CHECK!

25/07/2009 at 14:25 PILLS HERE! says:

wtf happened to zombie in 3rd picture? he’s crazy…

25/07/2009 at 14:28 PILLS HERE! says:

i mean the graphics not zombies…

25/07/2009 at 17:42 Stupoider says:

Epic fail Jixxi. I doubt the Infected would care enough about women wearing earrings to rip them off, they’d rather beat them up to be honest.

And corner camping is just that, camping. Camping isn’t really much of an aspect of the game and seeing as Valve are implementing ways to prevent it I’d say they don’t want corner camping either.

25/07/2009 at 20:22 Psychopomp says:

“Whats with all the “i hate people that hide in a room tactics” ??!! If you don’t like it, then don’t f’***ing do it!”

Yes, we can totally fucking stop the other team from being cheap fucks, and you totally won’t get votekicked from a public campaign game for not camping.

Totally.

Hint:That was sarcasm.

What’s this about RPS in the steam update news? I don’t see it anywhere.

25/07/2009 at 21:37 Lukeee says:

Coletrain, Some black woman, a scout and spy/scarface?

Left 4 Fortress 2?

25/07/2009 at 22:54 wrightkov says:

ok i dont think a single person realizes how overpowered they made the infected, so in order to even it out a bit the gave charactors LIMITED special ammo that is probably very rare.

Im pretty sure the max explosive shots you can get is 5 rounds

and the flame shots dont do as much so there are more of those

26/07/2009 at 00:16 Psychopomp says:

“ok i dont think a single person realizes how overpowered they made the infected”

Oh, so you’ve played the game, I trust?

26/07/2009 at 02:02 Julio says:

This is a going to be a really good game. I can’t wait to play it with all my buddies.

26/07/2009 at 04:55 Niner says:

I also live in Louisana myself and I thought I was safe from the zombie outbreak but I am not.

26/07/2009 at 05:20 Niner says:

that was modified from killzone 2

26/07/2009 at 05:55 DoctuhD says:

No mentions about respawn closets yet…and I don’t see how you would find one in a swamp, so hopefully they are changing that system. At the moment, it is more practical to kill your injured teamates than to give them a nice refreshing health pack.

26/07/2009 at 07:49 Solid Snake says:

I don’t get what all the fuss is about. even though Valve has come out with L4D2, they will still support L4D1. Kind of like when the PS3 came out. Even though it was a brand new and totally better system than the PS2 (the reverse compatible ones) Sony still made games for the PS2. Some of which where made for both the PS2 and the PS3.

SO STOP YOUR FUCKING COMPLAINING AND JUST ENJOY THE FACT THAT VALVE EVEN MADE ANOTHER GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

26/07/2009 at 12:17 JonnyCox says:

The guy on the right does look John Cusack-ish, but I’d regard his looks as more Dave Matthew-ish =)

An acoustic guitar would be a great thing to break over a zombie’s head (if it could still be used as a weapon… perhaps it’d only take 5 hits and be gone? Hmm…)

26/07/2009 at 14:52 lolwut says:

omg no pills in l4d2 :( tnx god louis is dead,or someting…

26/07/2009 at 17:57 German Kraut says:

Very Good Game,i hope it will Top Part One.

26/07/2009 at 22:27 [GUI] Butterzz says:

Personally I loved L4D1 aside from its somewhat boring hide in a corner forever and those pounces that seemed to go right thru someone yeah that was gay. But the point is Who doesnt want to blow a zombies brains out with an incendiary round I mean really or using a chainsaw to cut open them sure the charactors are kinda boring but who cares u get 5 new campaign maps a whole new aresenal of weapons and new zombies at least try it if u didnt like L4D not just cuz of dumbass pubbies or public players that dont know how to play but just the game itself now who didnt like it really it was a great game give L4D2 a try and dont keep bitchin’ about the money and how incendiary rounds are retarded and just play the damn game

27/07/2009 at 01:57 kami says:

give me my francis and zoey back D:

27/07/2009 at 06:42 Eldon says:

Every game they have ever put a gernade launcher into get exploited and abused , ruining the game for most.

27/07/2009 at 08:28 Hell_Phone says:

so what’s the big fuzz about?, guys dont like something and guys who dont have anything else than awnser the other guys?.. i mean, come on, they wont change valve`s mind and you wont change boycotter’s mind, oh god when you find a place to complain about something you guys lost the control and do things like boycott a Game just for been similar to anotherone and complain about guys who complain about everything @_@ thant’s it i need to sleep!

and a job! x_x

27/07/2009 at 10:58 Ronn says:

idk…spas 12s sound right up my alley…but i hope this comes out on x360…or can you spell LAGG or LOSS OF FPS

lol x3

27/07/2009 at 14:38 yhe uglyest man says:

thats awsome

27/07/2009 at 22:48 Jamane says:

the spitter will definitely make the game fairer wat with hide-in-closet abilities reduced but if u skilled enough u should beable to get dem b4 dey get u it’ll make de game better and more chalenging.
Also the more different guns and ammo the better and I assume the good ones are goin to be hard to come bye so that should equal out… I hope

28/07/2009 at 03:02 Kai says:

I ALMOST didn’t post, but then I realized something:

Very little was mentioned about AID 2.0. Do any of you TRULY believe that it could be an update? I have seen 1 or 2 mention that it would take a long time to sequentially update the 1st…this is the main reason why.

Do you always expect a company to do a complete overhaul of a game just because you want free stuff? Has the gaming community become so greedy as to expect such a thing? Yes, I agree that it’s possible to do a cheaper expansion pack, but how many of you know the nuances of coding a game? Of those, how many know about coding for expansions that revamp an existing game? Until there is proof of any Boycotters being able to do so, and having done so, then you should trust that they know what they are doing.

On another matter: L4D1 becoming obsolete
Has not a single one of you gone back to older games due to fond memories of the fun had with them? I have seen many complaints (mostly on other Forums) of the new characters (mostly involving Rochelle). For those that will miss their Zoey and Francis (and to some extent, Bill and Louis), are you saying you wouldn’t go back to play with them from time to time?

I know the Boycotters will have plenty to say about this. Go ahead. I don’t expect to change minds, just to give a new perspective to your argument(s).

28/07/2009 at 05:43 James says:

Gosh I hope they do not make the game system requirements any steeper, I don’t want to have to buy a new system. L4D is running nicely on a64 x 2 4200 3 gigs with ati 4850 or nvidia 8800gt, better with the ATI, slightly I think.
How about porting L4D to the PS3 while you are at it? I would buy it all over again to play on my PS3.
Do wish L4D was just a new version upgrade, not whole new game. Rather pay half to get upgraded game, than have two games, on eI never play again most likely unless add on content gets much better quickly.
Love For Dictators, how’se that for a game mod? Model 4 dictators to survive together against zombie allied troops. Musalini, Hirohito, Hitler, and or course, Bush.? LOL

28/07/2009 at 06:25 Kai says:

James: Love For Dictators, how’se that for a game mod? Model 4 dictators to survive together against zombie allied troops. Musalini, Hirohito, Hitler, and or course, Bush.? LOL

Brilliant!

James: have a whole bunch of different people to pick from, from heros, criminals, sport figures, politicians, even monsters aliens and even animals

Good idea, would probably require too much coding though.

28/07/2009 at 15:47 sunburntjuan says:

i call small guy he seems like a bad ass >.<

28/07/2009 at 17:02 HSpawererer says:

i agree with you sunburntjuan…. he looks like a bad ass 4 sure!!!

28/07/2009 at 20:16 Ozzy says:

For those of you complaining about the complainers, the main problem with L4D2 is that L4D1 didn’t make on all of it’s promises. They promised new maps, weapons, and characters. Instead they gave as the lighthouse, piece of shit, no new weapons and survival mode. And FYI, if you had a PC version the timer was already in the game, all you had to do was start it than there you go! Survival mode!

Instead, they made a few re skins, some new maps which anyone could do, added a few over rated melee weapons which will be ignored or overused depending on there effectiveness, and now I have to pay 60 bucks? No thank you.

29/07/2009 at 02:09 Peter says:

Anyone seen Orgazmo?
“I don’t wanna sound like a queer or nothing. But I think Depeche Mode is a sweet band.”
Lol @ Rochelle

29/07/2009 at 08:06 lommer says:

you guys think they use direct x 11 from what i heard its coming out with windows 7

30/07/2009 at 18:59 ==Sam== says:

maybe they could make the old survivors unlockable along with some new weapons when they do an amount of achievements like teamfortress2 :D

08/11/2009 at 03:15 Rawr says:

i agree with ryan