By Kieron Gillen on July 29th, 2009 at 5:25 pm.
Hello everyone. I’ve been off at San Diego Comicon, having adventures. As usual, when you’re actually at the front, you don’t get any of the bigger picture, so I’ve been catching up. And getting a little annoyed. Ars Technica broke the story on EA’s SDCC Dante’s Inferno compo – and reproduced the full flyer with all the rules – but in short you’re encouraged to take a photo of yourself performing an act of lust with a boothbabe and send in a photo to win a night out with two hot girls and a limo. There’s a bit of a furore. George Broussard has cracked in accusing people of not having a sense of humour and being feminists and/or wimps.
I’m about to come over all feminist. And I don’t mean in a “spraying ejaculate all over Germaine Greer and snapping a quick photo in an attempt to win the competition way”.
To be fair to EA, they’ve apologised for the misunderstanding in this, saying they were tongue-in-cheekly refering to just taking a snap with a booth babe. Which opens a whole different can of worms, but we’ll side-step the issue of objectification and all that malarkies, because it’s relatively beside the main issue. Which is, why offering a prize for this sort of behaviour at Comicon is a spectacularly bad idea.
In short: Comicon crowds? Not very good at judging what’s sexually inappropriate or not.
Let’s take a couple of casual stories from Comicon. An author friend of ours is hanging around at our table. One of our readers wanders up and starts chatting to her.
“So how do you know Jamie?”
“I’m just a friend”
“Sexual or other?”
“… Inappropriate!”
You don’t ask women if they’re fucking someone as an opening gambit. And, I stress, Phonogram are a bunch of indie-kid sweethearts with nary a bone of hate in them. This chap in question was otherwise lovely. He just displayed a bad judge of what’s appropriate or not. It’s plain social retardation.
Generally speaking, it’s worse. On the first day, a Photographer friend of ours wandered over, sighing that she’d already had her arse pinched four times.
This is what comicon is like without a multinational corporation deciding to turn it into a sport. Ever looked at the online photo-galleries of booth babes? A huge amount are just attractive women who happen to be at the show. A sizeable proportion of people who take photos are incapable of judging whether a girl is a booth-babe or not. As such, even with the “booth babe” proviso in the competition rules, sending people off to snap photos of booth babes is just encouraging people to go and sexually harass random people. Throwing petrol on the general aura of misogyny of the show – google up the whole furore over the Twilight fans at SDCC if you’re interested in seeing comic fandom in a bad light – shows a complete lack of understanding of how events like these work.
Oh, Broussard? Regarding the “wimp” thing? Real Men Finish What They Start.
Problem or solution, people. Really, pick a side.
29/07/2009 at 17:35 Jacques says:
To be fair, the flyer does clearly say “take photos with us or any booth babe”.
They probably should have been a little more aware that their audience is full of socially inept nerds though.
29/07/2009 at 17:36 sigma83 says:
Actually, _why is it_ that geeks tends towards social retardation? I’m a little socially inept myself (mainly because I tend to assume that people are as un-offendable as I am) but it is apparently a Trend.
29/07/2009 at 17:36 Kieron Gillen says:
The point being, they’re not capable of realising who is a booth babe or not.
KG
29/07/2009 at 17:36 Heliocentric says:
Is it even feminism? Not simply “don’t be a prick”-ism.
Still, i think the concept of “booth babes” is a fucking abomination in itself. I mean people roll their eyes at things like Ubisoft sponsoring that girl clan, at least they played games.
Getting people to dress up, that’s fine.. A dude like Kratos next to god of war with 2 pseudo greecian women half dressed even makes sense with the theme of the game. But a rally game, or a shooter? Its fucking nonsense. If you call this out, call out booth babes in general or sit back down on the damn fence.
29/07/2009 at 17:39 sigma83 says:
Also, couldn’t find Twilight debacle on google. Whatsits?
29/07/2009 at 17:40 Okami says:
Ummm….The whole thing is extremely sexist, clearly not funny and people who use the word “feminist” as a derogatory term are the reason why feminism needs to exist.
I was just writing that sometimes I’m ashamed to work in the gaming industry, but that would be untrue. I’m actually ashamed all the time to work in an industry that’s saturated with bigots, mysigonists and just flat out idiots.
29/07/2009 at 17:41 Metal_Circus says:
I think something like that is just plain fucking idiotic. It’s immature. Not too concerned about the feminist aspect (although it is hideously sexist if you ask me) I just find the idea of that being a competition as utterly immature, stupid, and lame. Oh and Broussard? It’s comicon for christ sake. I think if you’re going to talk about being a wimp then a big convention center full of comic book fans isn’t the best place. By wider societies standards they’d *all* technically be wimps (although that would be wrong, but you get what i mean ;))
29/07/2009 at 17:42 sigma83 says:
Models have been used to hype things forever. It’s become sort of standard practice… stupid practice nonetheless but it’s sort of a ‘must have’
But yes, shouldn’t the money go towards, I don’t know, better games?
29/07/2009 at 17:43 Jason McMaster says:
I absolutely agree. EA has a knack for picking the worst ways to promote their games. At the EA conference at E3, it was pretty much the same.
On a related note: Dante’s Inferno looks pretty lame.
29/07/2009 at 17:43 Jacques says:
True, but apparently they’re also not really capable of reading something properly, because to me, it clearly looks like that “commit acts of lust” thing is just a tongue in cheek header.
They should have been a little more aware of their target audience though, maybe they weren’t expecting them to take it quite so literally.
I’ve never been to any sort of gaming event, but I can see how people might be confused between a booth babe and some other woman dressed up in a comic/game/whatever inspired outfit.
29/07/2009 at 17:44 Dante says:
Reposting from Jalf in the forum thread (good find man) it looks like someone from gaygamer managed to win second prize with his ironic effort.
http://gaygamer.net/2009/07/update_runnerup_for_lust_conte.html
29/07/2009 at 17:45 moyogo says:
All the feminists I know are strong as shit (i.e. not wimps)… probably a good deal stronger than Mr. Broussard http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/38854267_6eaf333337.jpg (FIGHTING NOT TO MAKE A FAT COMPUTER MAN JOKE).
I love that “feminist” is still a viable slur in most circles where people don’t understand it – I await feminism being represented as man-hatred below.
29/07/2009 at 17:45 Stitched says:
“Feminist wimps” or not, when it hits the company bottom-line, I am sure Broussard will be drinking a big cup of shut-the-f*ck-up.
29/07/2009 at 17:45 Metal_Circus says:
And people wonder why girls don’t play games. I WONDER WHY.
29/07/2009 at 17:45 Natalie says:
For me, this just reinforces how damaging having Booth Babes at conventions really is. It reinforces the idea to a lot of shut in men (often very personable, nice guys too!) that women at conventions are there for no other reason than to be recipients of their sexual advances. If Comic Con et al got rid of them, it would expose a lot more of the talented women exhibiting, instead of overshadowing them with tits and arse.
29/07/2009 at 17:45 Dante says:
@ MeatCircus
I take offence sir! I for one am a giant manly geek!
29/07/2009 at 17:47 Kieron Gillen says:
For the record, the two women I’m talking about in the article are just dressed entirely normally.
KG
29/07/2009 at 17:47 Meat Circus says:
Fucking idiots.
It’s this sort of thing that makes me periodically ashamed to be a gamer.
29/07/2009 at 17:48 Bobsy says:
Girls do play games.
But you can bet your ass none of them are going to play this one. Except possibly Leigh Alexander.
29/07/2009 at 17:48 Tei says:
I like Boothbabes, I kind of think is a cool thing, much like geishas, Is cool to have around people that is cool that way. Pretty womens are pretty, aren’t? I know that there are people that have a diffrent opinion, not a problem.
That why I feel *double* insulted by this. It feels to me like a attack to the institution of Booth Babes *and* something terrible gross, with total lack of taste ..or sanity.
29/07/2009 at 17:48 sigma83 says:
Meat Circus: Amend that to ‘human being’
29/07/2009 at 17:49 Dinger says:
The real problem is not that comic-book guy has trouble identifying booth babes, but rather with defining an act of lust. For the EA team, a photograph of me standing next to the QA lead constitutes an act of lust. For a fan of comics, bikinis and spandex are a way of life. For some of them to get to lust, they need tentacles and genitalia.
So according to what variant of feminism is the very notion of “booth babes” acceptable? I mean, come on. They could have called them “market-enhancing artistic talent”, or something less offensive.
29/07/2009 at 17:51 sigma83 says:
Dinger: That’s just spin. We know spin when we see spin. It’s spin.
It is a sad fact though that having pretty girls tends to increase the amount of attention you get. It’s a cheap shot, instead of, you know, being Quality.
29/07/2009 at 17:53 Metal_Circus says:
They could have done that, Dinger, but then i’d have to send a nuclear bomb to whoever thought of that fucking title. A pair of tits and arse standing outside a promotion booth of a game they will never ever play (or even heard of before) is not talent and has no artistic value other than to demean the entire female gender.
29/07/2009 at 17:54 Bobsy says:
@ Meat Circus
It’s not all gamers. It’s “Comic Convention Attendees”. Since I’m not one* I don’t feel too bad about it. Ah, disconnection.
It IS reprehensible behaviour though, and not because it’s sexist. A lot of massive sexist arseholes would also consider this sort of thing crossing the line. If you objectify women you don’t generally want to… er… damage the goods.
*True story: I did once sneak into a Transformers convention in Birmingham without paying, mostly for shits and giggles. Their guards were relatively poor. As I left, I shared a lift with the special guest, who was an American voice actor with a silly name. Someone asked me, open-mouthed, “What did you talk about?” I answered truthfully. Nothing. Didn’t exchange a word. Gave him a smile though. Nice guy.
29/07/2009 at 17:54 Jacques says:
Meat Circus, I sort of agree, as much as I like games, I do hate being associated with the common gamer stereotype. It doesn’t help things when some gamers go out of their way to try to prove those stereotypes are right.
Kieron, did you do the right thing and stand up for your women’s honour?
29/07/2009 at 17:58 Pstonie says:
They took a job standing around in tight clothes, and were expecting to get right to work curing cancer.
Some people have no marketable skills apart from their looks, and there are many more who don’t even possess that.
Yeah, they’re being objectified. It’s their job description. Can’t change that without changing the whole system, but I guess if you can whine at your nearest service provider these days, you can tell yourself you’re making a difference.
29/07/2009 at 18:02 Acosta says:
Misogyny in a comic conference?
Preposterous!!!
In a more serious note, everything is connected. Most popular comics don’t shy themselves from the idea that “super-women” must have “super-breasts” and a perfect ass–> Comic readers salivate over the last iteration of Rogue—> those reader arrive to the medium wanting to recreate their own dream version of Rogue… Vicious circle, it´s not medium’s fault, but the main target is obvious and it´s the same target that goes to comic-con.
90% (I’m being generous) of the people there will think the same than George. It´s all “good fun”, and people complaining are just party poppers because they don’t adapt to their own code of what having fun in a comic conference is. Mix it with a complete lack of what social manners means and voila! Misogyny! Encouraging it? Terrible idea indeed, but it was all there from the beginning, and the only difference is that there is a mini-scandal has made it an internet topic.
@Natalie
Sure, but E3 tried to get rid of them and the cries for getting them back has been (almost) universal for two years. This is not companies fault, they are just offering what the public (and the press) is demanding. If you don’t believe me, ask some editor of IGN what are the most visited videos and features in a E3.
29/07/2009 at 18:02 no says:
You’re totally right. How dare anyone treat them like sex objects, just because they’re employed in a position for which the only qualification is to look smoking hot wearing almost nothing in order to promote a product.
That doesn’t mean harassment should be condoned or tolerated whatsoever, but the argument some people are waging goes well beyond the “acts of lust” crap and almost reach the level of stupidity of someone screaming “STOP LOOKING AT MY TITS YOU MONSTER!” when she’s got E cups and is wearing electrical tape over her nipples in the shape of an ‘X’.
29/07/2009 at 18:06 Metal_Circus says:
Acctually, Pstonie does have a point (although I won’t make it in quite the same pig-headed “I-don’t-care-that-sexism-is-still-rampant-in-the-advertising-industry” fashion)
Even though EA have apologised, they’ll be back to work again next year with even more walking tit adverts. I think if people are genuine about their thoughts on this then there needs to be more than a change of attitudes. We can whinge all we want but you and I both know it won’t do anything. People in the industry need to really start rattling their cages over stuff like this, and I mean developers, journalists (like RPS) not just gamers. It’s not enought to simply point out something is bad. you need to turn up the pressure cooker for stuff like this.
29/07/2009 at 18:06 Bobsy says:
Actually, what was George Broussard doing just walking around the convention like that? Isn’t he supposed to be working on Duke Nukem Fore- oh.
29/07/2009 at 18:07 bob_d says:
Sorry EA, that “apology” didn’t cut it. “[C]onfusion and offense”? There was blatant encouragement to sexually harass, and the contest treated the “reps” as prostitutes that (presumed male) winners would get to enjoy for “a sinful night.” “Grotesque” is the only word that describes this regressive, misogynistic promotion.
Oh, and someone needs to kick George Broussard in the bollocks… and take a picture. We could make a contest out of it.
29/07/2009 at 18:07 no says:
“Misogyny in a comic conference?”
Way to fail in comprehending what the word “misogyny” means. If you’re going to slander people, at least get it right.
Also, SHOCKER, men like hot chicks and react to them. Big deal? If you’re a good looking man, your actions are of course desired. If you’re not a good looking man, you’re a disgusting criminal monster for even looking at an attractive chick. Nice double-standard, huh?
This promotion is really stupid on so many levels, not the least of which is that I want to go check out videogames and such… not chicks. The LAST reason to go to a convention (almost always a sausage-fest) is for women. Especially booth-babes, who don’t even wan to BE there except it’s “a step on their dream path to being a super model”. Why do I want to be around people who don’t want to be around the rest of us? It’s just uncomfortable and stupid.
But it really does go a little overboard in some discussions. It’s like guys are afraid that they’ll be labeled unfairly if they do anything other than act like you’re a eunich.
29/07/2009 at 18:07 Steve says:
Twilight is really rather terrible. Literary trash doesn’t really belong at Comic-Con, now does it?
I heard they were incredibly loud.
29/07/2009 at 18:10 sigma83 says:
Re Twilight: But what happened???
29/07/2009 at 18:11 no says:
@Metal_Circus
I think it’s all pretty stupid, too, but what’s so special about comic-con or E3? I mean, sex and attraction is used EVERYWHERE every minute of the day to sell to both men *and* women. So why is one or another convention so sacred? Are you afraid that if you say “hey, what the hell, I like hot chicks” you’ll be labeled as a filthy male monster with a penis by all your feminist friends?
I think booth babes are pretty retarded and I don’t care for them. I don’t care for them being harassed, either. But to extend it to suggesting that the whole thing is sexist (as if it’s only in one direction or they’re being forced into it) is just crazy. There’s nothing wrong with marketing a product using sex. It has been done for… well, probably all of history. Certainly for the past century. To men and women. And men and women react to it, because… shockingly… we like attractive people and sex.
This is all beside the argument — which is obvious — that being a booth babe shouldn’t mean you must be subjected to caveman level harassment.
29/07/2009 at 18:13 sigma83 says:
In my opinion, people do need to lighten up about sex a little bit.
Not to say that harassing women should be permissible, but if some folk weren’t so repressed to begin with…
29/07/2009 at 18:14 Acosta says:
Whatever, not misogyny (way to ignore the roots of the problem). Call it “objectification of women” if you feel more comfortable.
29/07/2009 at 18:14 Misnomer says:
Let’s remember that this is the same group that hired actors to hold fake religious protests against Dante’s Inferno.
Marketing is pretty much evil anyway. Why did EA think that saying “Could you do a campaign for us based on sin, the seven deadly kinds if that isn’t too much of a problem?” would end well?
While all of you debate booth babes and I remember forums about why E3 died (personally I find the concept of booth babes pretty lowly)….I take all of your suggestions with a grain of salt. Feminism is easy on forums, no one will tag your name here to the next time you make a sexist comment in a game or make fun of the Sims 3 as a “chick” game.
29/07/2009 at 18:14 Natalie says:
@Acosta – just because people want something, it doesn’t mean to say you should give it to them, you know?
@Pstonie – just because a woman is employed as a booth babe, it doesn’t mean they have “no marketable skills apart from their looks”. It’s a quick and dirty way to earn money (especially in this economy) to pay for things like… oh I don’t know… college loans or rent. Just because the system is broken, it doesn’t make the workers at fault.
29/07/2009 at 18:17 Kieron Gillen says:
Jacques : I wasn’t there. If our T-shirts turned up, we weren’t going to sell him one though. Unless he apologised properly.
Steve: Comicon is all about literary trash.
Re: Twilight. Here’s a story about what happened at the con, but I was more thinking about the stuff online before it. It was all over the blogosphere.
KG
29/07/2009 at 18:17 Metal_Circus says:
Well “no”, i like how you’re using a pseudonym to cover up your real username and then complain that I’M afraid of being castrated by my feminist friends (of which I have none.)
Anyway, I have to disagree with your attitude to using sex to sell products. I don’t really think it’s all that acceptable really, and if you buy a product because you psychologicaly believe it will enhance that side of your life then you are stupid, frankly. We all know it won’t and it’s pretty insulting to have that presented to us all the time acctually, so no I don’t think it’s acceptable because honestly? I just find it stupid to the point of being insulting. Take the Lynx adverts for example. Funny and tongue in cheek right? Not really. Just shit.
And it might come to a surprise to some of you but yes, i’m very much on the feminist side here. Like the old phrase goes, women are the “niggers” of the world. Someone has to stand up for these people.
Oh and the people you mention who do the modelling willingly are just as much victims as the girls having their asses pinched because they genuinley think their career path is fulfilling rather than being empty, soulless and artless.
29/07/2009 at 18:19 sigma83 says:
Natalie: I think that there should be no reason why you can’t market yourself based on your physical qualities, attractiveness being one of them, although my problem specifically is that physical attractiveness is overvalued in relation to other traits.
29/07/2009 at 18:20 no says:
Man, I can smell the argyle socks and button up sweater vest and thick black emo glasses and sexless pandering growing so thick in here.
You don’t have to chop off your penis and sacrifice your libido to be a good person. You can disapprove of EA encouraging what *seems* like harassment (an act of lust could simply be drooling over yourself, surely) without going down the whole “every time a man looks at a female, it’s RAPE!” branch.
Also, as much as I think this whole EA promotion is god damned retarded, I do have to question some of the assumptions that are being made. I mean, seriously, does anyone think that “a night with two hot girls” means “they’re going to suck you off all night long!”? I mean, c’mon. The prize is two good looking chicks will suffer an intolerable night in a limo going to a club and out for dinner or something with you. And an “act of lust”? Do you really think EA was condoning, say, “grab some ass and get a Polaroid of it!”? I find that difficult to believe.
Don’t get me wrong — the whole idea is just stupid, stupid, stupid… and as a geek, I am offended by it. I don’t think it’s sexist in any way for a man or woman to be used to advertise a product because they’re attractive and that draws attention — because it isn’t. It’s a job and a career and both men and women are employed in it. Or maybe it’s also sexist that men tend to get paid less in the job than female models? I don’t know – whatever.
But what *IS* borderline sexist is EA promoting the idea that geeks are a bunch of sexless driveling idiots who will fall all over themselves for a contest that involves hot booth babes who are half naked and only there because they’re being paid to be.
The booth babes would be shaking ass somewhere else if it wasn’t at the convention. Have no doubt about that. But that EA particularly chooses a group of geeks and nerds… because of course, the only sex we all get is wanking ourselves over a ’77 print of Princess Leigha… is really kind of fucked and doesn’t look good to the rest of society. Not because they’re thinking “wow, dudes like hot chicks” but because they’re thinking “wow, a bunch of pathetic nerds! hah! look at them swarm the hot chicks because they’ve never seen a woman before! durrr!”.
29/07/2009 at 18:23 Acosta says:
I’m just explaining the reason. I’ll let the moral judgment for other. This is how it is, and it has it reasons, take it or not.
29/07/2009 at 18:23 Yargh says:
this would have worked so much better if:
a) they restricted it to only their stand
b) their ‘booth babes’ were all giant hairy world’s strongest man wannabes
29/07/2009 at 18:23 Dinger says:
@Metal Circus. I didn’t say M.E.A.T. was the ideal title for such folks, but that it was better than “Booth Babe.” Also, you folks should give some respect for the people who take those jobs. It’s hard work — don’t hate the playas, hate the game.
And it ain’t “spin”; it’s just simple exegesis. The EA compo folks were thinking in terms of contest rules: A. photograph with EA people or models, B. associate them on social networking sites, C. we give an award to someone. D. Hey, let’s associate this with the sin of Lust to make it Dantesque.
The resulting flyer makes us think in entirely different terms, namely “get lusty with our booth babes.” Add that to a predominantly male environment where the governing text on gender relations is the Comics Code Authority, and you’re enhancing an already bad sensation.
By the way KG: Comics + Booth Babes + Video Games + Sexual Assault = 300 posts, even if the news is a week late.
29/07/2009 at 18:24 FunkyLlama says:
@no
No, there’s nothing wrong with marketing a product using sex, except when you do so in such a way that’s probably going to be causing sexual harassment.
29/07/2009 at 18:25 jalf says:
Aw, didn’t see Kieron had posted this here. And I just suggested on twitter they discuss it on the podcast. Way to make me look completely out of touch :D
29/07/2009 at 18:26 Dinger says:
sensation? situation? salivation?
29/07/2009 at 18:27 Metal_Circus says:
“no” what the fuck are you talking about? No one has sat here and suggested we become asexual or anything. What people do in their sex lives is up to them and I would never interfere with that, so stop trying to find a “feminist” stereotype to abuse by throwing it in our faces. Most of us just disagree with this marketing practice which in all fairness is just plain dumb. Sexist because it assumes all men want nothing more than a HOLE to put their penises in and sexist because it assumes all women are just there to look good, something which you have agree’d with.
29/07/2009 at 18:27 Matzerath says:
Fuel to the fire: A gay gamer got a runner-up prize for his pic with a ‘booth bear’:
http://gaygamer.net/2009/07/update_runnerup_for_lust_conte.html
He was apparently not all that pleased.
I’ll also note that several forum arguments on this subject right now look almost exactly the same.
29/07/2009 at 18:27 no says:
@sigma83 says:
“Natalie: I think that there should be no reason why you can’t market yourself based on your physical qualities, attractiveness being one of them, although my problem specifically is that physical attractiveness is overvalued in relation to other traits.”
I can’t disagree with that trait, but you and I and everyone else know that as much as we want society to value intelligence and compassion and other traits more than being hot, it doesn’t. It won’t. And neither do we. No matter what other traits someone has — unless maybe they’re Bill Gates rich — none of us are going to fall for a hideous looking monster of a freak or someone who weighs 500lbs.
Physical attractiveness has been the driving biological force since the beginning of man and still rules everything we do today. The desire to be wanted by an attractive woman drives almost everything every man does every day. Hiring, salary, raises, treatment at work, and general treatment in almost every setting and by every person is based on how we look.
Hell, toddlers who still piss their pants have been found to judge their teachers as “nice” or “mean” based on how beautiful or ugly they are. Mothers have been found to treat more attractive children with more attention than their unattractive siblings.
On a hypothetical level, the day dream of everyone being attracted to each other for more meaningful virtues would be great. But that doesn’t and won’t happen. More, I think a lot of people are using this booth-babe EA fiasco as a chance to steamroll their own personal agendas (no say YOU are, but people in general out in the world), just like religious nuts can turn every discussion into an argument about abortion or gun rights.
29/07/2009 at 18:29 Kieron Gillen says:
More on twilight.
KG
29/07/2009 at 18:31 Natalie says:
@sigma83 – I’m not disagreeing, I just think it has a time and a place, and comic book/gaming conventions are not that time and place. Especially when it involves reducing a whole section of the audience down to their mammaries and encourages sexual harrassment. I don’t go to Hooters for the food, and I don’t go to Comic Con to have my tits stared at (which as my husband pointed out to me, happened. I wasn’t even wearing a low cut top for god’s sake!).
And let’s face it, if you’re not actually selling porn (there was a Suicide Girl booth and I have no problem with that) using sex to sell something unrelated to the actual act shows little confidence in your product or audience. If I was a guy, I’d probably be even more insulted that companies use booth babes to try and get me to buy a product than I am as a woman having to walk past it. Men are smarter and more than the 2D individuals than the marketing world seems to think they are.
29/07/2009 at 18:31 The Colonel says:
Nerd ;)
29/07/2009 at 18:32 FunkyLlama says:
Thanks Kieron, I was looking for that.
29/07/2009 at 18:33 Gutter says:
Hey, I don’t see the problem. Surely EA asked every last Booth Babe for their permission for this.
Consenting adults and all that, so it’s ok.
They did ask permission, right? At least permission from the competitors who hired them? Right?
29/07/2009 at 18:33 Serondal says:
I just got punched in the face for jumping out of my car and groping this chick in a tollbooth, I got a good picture though I hope It winzors! ^_^ I’m hoping to be able to sell the swag I get in order to pay my court costs.
29/07/2009 at 18:34 Hypocee says:
Second the gaygamer thing above being pretty good.
Yes, it makes my skin itch on the inside. Yes, EA is going to do not quite the same thing next year. Yes, someone at SDCC is going to do the same thing next year. That doesn’t mean this furore isn’t a good thing. There’s a long way from ‘is’ to ‘ought’, and sometimes thin lines matter.
I remember once watching an SDCC QnA video with Natalie Portman from a year or two after Phantom Menace. I was prepared for awkwardness, you know? These are supposedly my (overwhelmingly) brethren, the asocial guys who spend too much time thinking about stuff that does not and cannot exist. It’ll probably be half banal questions about on-set gossip and half ridiculous stuff about props or SFX. Right? Wrong. It was largely personal questions – some weren’t even questions. I don’t remember the particulars and I’m glad; I just remember killing the player halfway through and my feeling of disgust that any human being would ask another, face-to-face, to answer that kind of stuff in public. It’s a good thing I have no talent because I’d think twice and thrice about even speaking to that crowd. It opened my eyes. I love geeks…but there are also nerds.
29/07/2009 at 18:34 Pstonie says:
@Natalie: I’m just saying that people shouldn’t expect complaining about this single occurrence to change anything. And they shouldn’t be under the impression that these women didn’t know what kind of job they would be doing when they took it.
The system is broken, but in the end it was the individual so-called booth babes who had a choice to say yes or no to the job. Most of us have to do something we don’t want to for money. You either stand on principle and find something you don’t want to do less or you suck it up. (Or be hypocrite). The system is broken for everyone, not just these poor supermodels.
29/07/2009 at 18:35 jalf says:
I think that sums up the Dante’s Inferno team pretty well.
Which is just yet another way in which this stunt can backfire on them. In addition to convincing me that they’re complete immature jerks, they’ve *also* convinced me that their game sucks. Apparently, it’s not good enough to market on its own.
29/07/2009 at 18:35 sigma83 says:
I honestly don’t give a crap what people look like when it comes to determining quality of individual. I readily submit to the possibility that it’s all really buried in my subconscious tho.
29/07/2009 at 18:36 no says:
@Matzerath
That GayGamer article is great. It really is ridiculous to expect that they “randomly” chose him rather than choosing him intentionally because they thought it could defuse some of the negative attention they’ve suffered as a result of their idiotic promotion. It’d be nice if EA just said “we didn’t mean any harm by it and we thought it was all in fun, but we realize that it was a miserable idea and won’t do it again”. But of course… no, we all just “misunderstood”. *sigh*.
That said, the article goes a little overboard with the email that was sent back to EA. Misogynistic? Seriously? The author of it thinks that the guys at EA *hate women*? Wow, that’s quite an intense fucking accusation. And sexual harassment? Let’s get hold of ourselves, here.
If booth babes were subjected to the same constraints as any employee in a company, they wouldn’t exist at all. No models would. Hell, no actors or actresses or people in porn or on billboards or at conventions would, either. I guarantee that *IN* EA, you can’t go around dressing like a booth babe and you can’t go around leering at coworkers or whistling at them.
I totally agree. Stupid idea. Everyone in every aspect can rightfully claim a little bit of offense. But for fuck’s sake, people… it’s not the end of the world. EA didn’t endorse or condone “hating” women or abusing them and drooling over a hot chick isn’t bad, wrong, or evil.
Also, the pick he sent in did not show enough lust in the first place, so totally shouldn’t have positioned at all in the contest. :P
29/07/2009 at 18:36 Acosta says:
I’ll keep it simple: what EA has done comes from the same place where somebody thought that a hot woman with a latex bikini was a great way to promote anything. Take it as you want, but you can’t criticize one without doing the same for the other.
And that’s been too much non videogame internet disccussion for me today. Have fun.
29/07/2009 at 18:38 Metal_Circus says:
@no Finally, I don’t really know what it is you’re bringing to this argument. You’ve pretty much agree’d with everything we’ve said accept you’re adiment to get across the fact you don’t care and that we shouldn’t either. Your posts reek of “yeah it’s bad but why bother?” it’s selfish. We bother because we acctually give a shit. If you just want to be a passive observer then fuck off and be one, but don’t decry our opinions because you’re a pessimistic cynic who doesn’t want anything to change.
29/07/2009 at 18:41 sigma83 says:
Natalie: Oh yeah. For sure. There’s levels of inappropriate and then there’s Inappropriate.
Also, no one’s answered my question at the top of the page: Actually, _why is it_ that geeks tends towards social retardation?
29/07/2009 at 18:41 Natalie says:
@Pstonie – I don’t think anyone is really expecting anything to change. But you can’t deny that it’s important to make sure people are aware of these company tactics, and that discussion occurs. Especially considering it’s EA, a company that is responsible for games that a greater-than-normal proportion of women play. I’m not going to boycott them (although it’s unlikely I’d ever play Dante’s Inferno, it looks rubbish), but I am going to make sure that I’m heard, and hope they understand that it was a poorly made decision.
29/07/2009 at 18:42 Gap Gen says:
I just pity the person who has to look at all the pictures of nerds harassing women.
29/07/2009 at 18:46 SuperNashwan says:
Every gamer should be forced to spend at least a month with a ‘girly’ online tag, just to see how people respond to it. Might open a few eyes.
29/07/2009 at 18:47 LewieP says:
I genuinely suspect EA’s marketing department are utter geniuses.
You think this kind of fuck up is unintentional?
This is the same marketing department that (for only £20,000) managed to get Mercenaries 2 all over the enthusiast and mainstream press. Sure, they pissed off some people, but for not much money they told a lot of people that Mercenaries 2 was out soon.
It is also the same marketing department that had a similar ‘gaff’ when Godfather 2 came out. Which also got widespread coverage.
If there’s one thing you can trust that EA of all the mega-publishers will do, it’s have an effective marketing department.
I am not watching a trailer of Dante’s Inferno. Job done.
29/07/2009 at 18:47 Impossible says:
“No” has a refreshing perspective. Much more different and grounded in reality than what you normally see in these kind of discussions. Personally I always thought it was weird for a bunch of men to have discussions about what women think, or should think about something in the name of feminsim.
Also… Metal_Circus, I thought “niggers” (it’s not racist if you put it in quotes, right?!!) where the “niggers” of the world…
29/07/2009 at 18:47 LewieP says:
*now watching
29/07/2009 at 18:48 LionsPhil says:
Hooboy. Was wondering if RPS would cover this exciting little development.
The solution here is mace, and lots of it. Ideally applied directly to Mr Broussard.
29/07/2009 at 18:48 tony says:
are people REALLY going to sit on this page and say that these booth professionals are being taken advantage of? these people are simply filling a job, just like a school teacher, a doctor, or a police officer, somebody offered then a paying position and they took it, if they don’t like it then they can quit and find another job, i have yet to see a booth babe complain, it’s just internet people and their over sensitivity, THIS is why the world is going to hell in a hand basket, because everybody is too afraid to upset somebody else, or people are getting offended FOR other people, move on life’s too short for this crap, who cares?
29/07/2009 at 18:49 sigma83 says:
oh I know the crap heaped upon girls. Honestly if I had a dollar for every time I’ve said ‘Allow me to apologize for my species…’
29/07/2009 at 18:49 Metal_Circus says:
@impossible If you have a qualm with my opinion then state it. I’m not going to get in a debate with you about something you’re misunderstanding on purpose ;)
29/07/2009 at 18:50 The_B says:
Right, I was saying this in chat when I realised it would be fine here – hopefully it’ll still make sense:
Fully agreed on that Comic Con comment Kieron, was just reading the whole thing myself this morning. (Fine, I admit, I originally trawled through the Twitterfeed to see if there were any good pics ¬_¬) I was firstly of the mindset of people are getting over defensive, but the social retardation stuff is an excellent point – I agree the wording was all wrong.
Don’t think there was anything wrong in the concept of “well, people get pictures at Comic Con anyway, lets reward them for it” but EA were both far too ambiguous with their wording of the compo and displayed an embarrassing lack of awareness of the target audience.
29/07/2009 at 18:51 Gutter says:
@Pstonie : They knew what the job entitled?
Are you serious? There is a difference between knowing that some fans will inevitably drool all over you and having a large company (who isn’t even your employer) subject you to a “who can droll the most” contest.
I position that although they knew that nerds would later masturbate to the though of their skimpy outfits, they probably didn’t know that they would be part of a contest to find the most eager masturbator.
Whats next? Forcing them into a wet t-shirt contest because it’s somewhat in the same line of work than being a booth babe? I mean, the are in it to have boys look at their body, so they shouldn’t complain when we start acting like fucking uneducated asses, right?
29/07/2009 at 18:51 Kieron Gillen says:
I wish someone would actually read the article I wrote before reducing it down to “It’s only a problem for booth babes”.
EDIT: Well, more people. I’m actually on the “Booth Babes haven’t signed up for this” side, but it’s not the bigger issue. How would you feel about – say – your sister being at the show and having someone do this to them? Because chances are, someone might *even without EA encouraging it*.
KG
29/07/2009 at 18:54 Stense says:
I really dislike the whole ‘boothbabe’ thing, and not just because they are far prettier than me. It just comes across as horrible exploitational to women but also patronising to the predominately male gameing scene.
29/07/2009 at 18:54 tony says:
@KG – of course we read the article, but the comments are far longer :) and btw it is a nice article and it’s a shame non booth babes got dragged into the mess, but hopefully they had a good time and knew the social ineptitude of their fellow attendees
29/07/2009 at 18:57 Arrrmo says:
This is one of those situations that really tests the limits of the phrase: “there’s no such thing as bad press.”
Also, ‘furore’ is a great word that somehow wasn’t in my vocabulary prior to reading this article…
29/07/2009 at 19:03 Kester says:
@Kieron: I was wondering if anyone had actually read it too.
The Twilight stuff is mind-boggling. I mean, these are basically your female counterparts in a hobby that is traditionally a) male-dominated and b) sexually frustrated and you protest about them?! There’s a severe case of self-definition-through-interests going on here (they clearly didn’t read, or maybe get, Rue Brittania ;-) ) combined with a kind of playground sexism. It’s so childish I seriously wonder what the average age of con-goers is.
29/07/2009 at 19:03 Colin Hansen says:
I donno, from the pictures I’ve seen so far it seems like all the fuss was over nothing. Really, the contest itself is not sexist. The booth babe thing isn’t really sexist either, but that’s closer.
29/07/2009 at 19:04 Impossible says:
@Metal_Circus: I don’t want to get in a debate because there is nothing to debate, so it works out. I’m not misunderstanding it either, I feel like the analogy was completely unnecessary. You didn’t have to say that for people to get that women are oppressed. It also implies that racism is a localized thing but sexism is a world wide phenomenon, which I don’t agree with.
29/07/2009 at 19:04 Pace says:
I’m with LewieP on this one. Best thing to do is just ignore it, getting all upset and publicizing it even more is probably just what they want.
29/07/2009 at 19:07 Hypocee says:
It’s reverse racism is what it is. I want to know who’s speaking up for us, is what I want to know. Coming here, taking our jobs, I mean who’s really the victim here eh?
Again, marketing people, at a company, planned and paid money, to instruct a group of young men hardly known for their tact, to compete in exceeding their baseline objectification of women. Just a bit of fun. Didn’t foresee any problem. Oopsie, sorry you misunderstood!
Depends on whether you’re begging the question. I feel (based on absolutely zero data, just the geeks I know) that the proportion of cockbots is exactly the same as in any other subculture, and which portions of the subculture show up depends on the con. There are cons where everybody has a nice time. If we’re going to accept your premise, then social retardation is more common because social indifference or distaste is basically part of the definition. There most certainly are outgoing X geeks, but to fit the premise I assume we’re talking about guys who would self-identify as geeks rather than “I like X”. Given that kind of self-selection, it would be hardly surprising that people who are uninterested in interacting with people face-to-face are more likely to be bad at it. It’s not a conclusion I intuitively agree with, but again I have no evidence so I consider the question a bit irrelevant.
29/07/2009 at 19:09 Hypocee says:
/me tag fail, sigh. Soz.
29/07/2009 at 19:13 Orin says:
I find a wonderful solution to having “some of those guys” keep bugging me at a con is to have a cross-dressing friend with a very deep voice say hello to everyone. Potential stalkers scatter, I highly recommend it.
(Though I am a completely socially retarded geek myself, admittedly.)
@sigma83 – I think geeks just have a different kind of social awareness. That is, of one another. Not necessarily “non-geeks”, a.k.a. “the outside world”. If that made any sense or answered any question on any level at all.
29/07/2009 at 19:14 Gap Gen says:
In terms of the geeks + social retardation, I guess more time spent in front of a computer means less time spent in front of a person. Or maybe the socially retarded are drawn towards geekdom. That’s even if there is a genuine correlation – after all, there are plenty of messed-up relationships out there in the general public.
29/07/2009 at 19:15 tony says:
So KG, did you intend on stirring up this hornets nest or what?
29/07/2009 at 19:18 jalf says:
In the same way that keeping quiet about Spore’s DRM would have been more effective than making a fuss about it?
I suppose the EA Spouse fiasco a few years before then was *just* what EA wanted too. I bet it attracted hordes of would-be employees.
Nah, EA knows perfectly well what bad publicity feels like, and they don’t like it. Whatever else you might say about EA, they’ve proven repeatedly that if you make enough noise about their failures, they listen. They no longer treat their employees like crap, because people made noise about it. They no longer use limited activations DRM because people made noise about it.
And if we want them to stop doing offensive and misogynistic publicity stunts, guess what it’ll take…
29/07/2009 at 19:21 Xugu Madison says:
Lets say we remove any reference to gender, from the competition. That it was just a competition about wandering up to random people working at ComicCon and getting photos taken with them. It would still be a stupid idea, because you do not drag random bystanders into stuff without their permission.
Making it booth babe specific is… I just don’t have the words.
29/07/2009 at 19:24 jalf says:
@Xugu: nah, it’s not just the gender references, but also the sex references. I mean, even if it was just random bystanders rather than booth babes, would you feel comfortable about people trying to take pictures of them “committing acts of lust” with you? ;)
29/07/2009 at 19:25 K says:
Anybody find out what the booth ladies’ perspective on all this is?
29/07/2009 at 19:26 Pace says:
jalf; I don’t see any connection to Spore’s DRM whatsoever, that was clearly not an attempt to get attention. This is. (and getting upset about this won’t hurt the game’s sales any more than the L4D2 boycott will affect it’s sales.)
29/07/2009 at 19:26 spinks says:
re: geeks and inappropriate social interaction
There is a notion of the 5 geek social fallacies
29/07/2009 at 19:29 Don says:
@moyogo: Thanks for the Broussard photo, I’d never seen him before so for some reason imagined the generic speccy geek who, though they might get overly perfectionist, usually get the job done. Seeing him in the flesh explains why DNF never showed, there’s a guy who’s too busy stuffing pizza down his gob to get on with any coding. And of course exactly the right ‘fatfuck prick’ look to go with his remarks.
29/07/2009 at 19:31 dhex says:
“Well, more people. I’m actually on the “Booth Babes haven’t signed up for this” side, but it’s not the bigger issue. How would you feel about – say – your sister being at the show and having someone do this to them? Because chances are, someone might *even without EA encouraging it*.”
it would likely happen anyway because the entire shebang is deeply devoted to the male gaze. comics, anime, etc. look through the pictures of conventions (a friend of mine blogs a bunch of them, so i end up seeing the whatever you’d like to call this particular version of street theater) and the vast majority of the female characters portrayed are essentially masturbatory icons come to life. and that’s the self-generated material! the paid stuff is, no doubt, even more shitty and fucked.
if i had a female child i’d probably hope to keep them away from the animu, etc just on a general, if fallacious, precautionary principle. it’s not like the rest of the media universe is much better, it’s just that this stuff, in general, is much, much worse.
29/07/2009 at 19:33 Pstonie says:
I think it’s very touching that a bunch of stereotypically socially inept geeks care so deeply about the rights of supermodels they’ve never even met.
It’s almost as touching as that protest the supermodels held when we were getting screwed by Spore’s DRM. “like… lol” is still my favourite protest slogan from anywhere.
29/07/2009 at 19:40 Subject 706 says:
Since most large publishers seem to actively tailor their games after the kind of person they imagine goes to conventions to slaver over booth-babes, this should come as no surprise.
As to geeks being unable to judge what is sexually inappropriate, I’d say that that is very much not limited to that sub-group of people. Had this been a muscle-car convention, the situation would probably have been much the same.
29/07/2009 at 19:41 cliffski says:
one can only imagine how completely fucking crap the game must be if they stoop to this sort of sad stunt to try and get people to care about it.
Sadly it doesnt surprise me, but then there are a lot of completely sexist scumbags in this industry.
29/07/2009 at 19:42 Jacques says:
Kieron, surely that’s an indecation of a problem with the people that attend this type of event more than anything else.
Maybe if people reacted to it properly, ie a swift kick to the ‘nads, they might get the message that’s it’s not appropriate.
I can’t help but think that a guy on my university course would be one of those creepy nerds. He’s not particularly bright, completely socially inept, and very innapropriate.
29/07/2009 at 19:44 cliffski says:
just to wade in with psudoscience to the social inept thing.
My chum who works in genetics claims that this is because groups of genes often stick together. In other words, your chances of getting gene X+1 is pretty high if you inherit gene X. So it would seem that the gene for liking games is probably quite physically related to genes that inhibit empathy, which is the key driver for being awkward about social interaction.
In other words its not all social or environmental factors, it really can be a genetic thing.
29/07/2009 at 19:47 dhex says:
cliffski, dude, casual games make up how much of the market compared to what we will call the “booth babes contingent”?
it’s not about games. it’s about 14 year old boys.
29/07/2009 at 19:48 PleasingFungus says:
What an ugly mess.
On the Twilight thing – I think there might be some reasonable complaint to be made about the Twilight fans attending SDCC, mainly gaffes made probably through inexperience with cons. (Rumour had it that they camped out in the Tron 2 panel while waiting for the/a Twilight one, blocking people who were actually interested in Tron from attending? Which sounds pretty rude, if true.) But even if so, calling for an ABSOLUTE BAN OF ALL (TWILIGHT) FANGIRLS FOREVER is obviously the wrong response, and I’m glad you linked to those articles – I’d only seen the other side’s account.
Anyway, back to complaining about/defending EA’s PR.
29/07/2009 at 19:50 Serondal says:
This whole thing is way out of hand. You guys may not realize this but models are paid in general to be beautiful and get photographed and looked upon, it is their job. Would you freak out if there was a contest to see who could get their car repaired best by a repair man? Oi, you’re exploiting the poor fellow and making him first your car for your perverted contest!
This is their job! They signed up for it, they get paid for it, and they probably ENJOY it. You may not realize it but some people enjoy getting attention, they know they’re beautiful and they like to get acknolwedged for this. The poster just says to take pictures with them to win the prize it never says to rape them and I’m certain they’ve got body guards/bouncer types around to make sure nothing gets out of hand.
If you’re going to complain about something complain about the entire model industry, personally I think there is nothing wrong with finding the female body beautiful and celebrating that. No one forces these girls to be models and they’re all paid for their work , they could quit at any time if they wanted to they’re not slaves. Angry Internet Man calm down.
29/07/2009 at 19:52 EyeMessiah says:
The booth-babe thing insults me, and in general.
The “sexual or other?” question, and the obvious social maladjustment doesn’t put me up nor down though. It may be evidence of social-retardation, but its worth bearing in mind that transgressing politeness isn’t very significant. Because it involves sex and girls in this case it seems a bit salacious and possibly misogynistic but I don’t think that is necessarily the case.
Mentioning adult gaming in the wrong crowd can be enough to make some people cringe and cause an awkward moment . Its probably fair to say that this would be an example of malformed social skills, but it also highlights the fact that rules that govern properly socialised behaviour are kind of arbitrary.
And so it is with the inappropriateness of discussion of sexual behaviour. Its embarrassing and impolite for worthless reasons.
I’d like to take this opportunity to encourage comic book fans everywhere to engage a stranger in a conversation about their masturbatory habits asap!
29/07/2009 at 19:53 Serondal says:
As far as nerds being socially inept that is their fault not EA’s or the booth girls. Can you blame the Lion for attacking the slowest gazelle? It is nature to take advantage of other beings weakness for your own profit; this is just another example of it. If an individual can not control himself enough to avoid sexually assaulting someone that is their problem and they should be dealt with individually. Agreed with comment above this would be the same/worse if this were a muscle car convention or a farm convention or something
29/07/2009 at 19:54 EyeMessiah says:
@Serondal
Re. booth babes.
I personally don’t think its exploitative practice, shameful, or gratuitous in a bad way or anything like that.
I just don’t like it because its not very classy.
29/07/2009 at 19:57 TOOTR says:
“You don’t ask women if they’re fucking someone as an opening gambit. ”
No, quite right, no you don’t. Made me grin ear to ear – not that I approve of course but I can still find it funny as removed from the incident as I am.
A friends cheeky chatup line of ‘You’re nice!…. Nice and FAT!’ also shouldn’t be recommended and yet occasionally was said with the right amount of cheekiness that it proved successful. He was playing percentages – admittedly with horrific odds but that was how he rolled.
“A sizeable proportion of people who take photos are incapable of judging whether a girl is a booth-babe or not”
Simple advice here :
Check if they have an adams apple.
Pick a side?
Well the competition is embarrassing and woefully misjudged. Appalling. Seriously. Gaming does not need this kind of publicity but then nothing apart from perhaps a Sexpo does.
That said – I think booth babes are quite lovely and pleasing to mine eye. There I said it.
29/07/2009 at 20:01 Evert says:
Sorry EA, that “apology” didn’t cut it. “[C]onfusion and offense”? There was blatant encouragement to sexually harass, and the contest treated the “reps” as prostitutes that (presumed male) winners would get to enjoy for “a sinful night.” “Grotesque” is the only word that describes this regressive, misogynistic promotion.
Oh, and someone needs to kick George Broussard in the bollocks… and take a picture. We could make a contest out of it.
RPS (or someone) should hold a tie in competition.
1. Commit an act of Wrath (kick George B or anyone from EA marketing between the legs)
2. Film/photgraph it.
3. ???
4. Profit!
29/07/2009 at 20:03 Bleh says:
“Whats next? Forcing them into a wet t-shirt contest because it’s somewhat in the same line of work than being a booth babe?”
So, if your boss asked you to strip off in the middle of the office and do star jumps for the amusement of everybody else…you’d just obey without question?
Anyway, the competition is quite obviously just to take a photo of yourself with a booth babe, which is harmless. And is done anyway. “Commit Acts of Lust” is a joke. Do you really think EA are inviting people to have sex with their booth babes? It could imply you think women are owned by EA and can’t think for themselves. Would you not even /ask/ them beforehand, or would you think to yourself “I have a piece of paper saying it’s okay for me to sexually harass you”, is that how you’d justify it? It makes no sense.
Geeks being retards isn’t EA’s fault.
29/07/2009 at 20:03 EyeMessiah says:
“That said – I think booth babes are quite lovely and pleasing to mine eye. There I said it.”
And why shouldn’t you? Male sexuality, its indulgence and its expression are not incompatible with a functional feministic outlook.
29/07/2009 at 20:05 Bleh says:
Also, somebody send in a photo of George with the tag “Is gluttony close enough?” Har har. Yeah, another fat joke.
29/07/2009 at 20:06 Serondal says:
I’m not a gay male but I wouldn’t mind it if there were booth hunks either. I dunno if there already are or not but I don’t see any reason why there couldn’t be male models dressed up as sex male game characters there for the females and the gay guys, wouldn’t bother me at all. I’m all for equality ;)
29/07/2009 at 20:13 TOOTR says:
@EyeMessiah – Totally agree with you. As I wrote that, was concerned the missus might be peering over my shoulder…didn’t fancy talking about ‘booth babes – good or evil? with her at this exact moment (long day) but felt a touch of bravado nonetheless :)
One point on this whole issue – as crass and classless and insulting and whatever this publicity stunt is… if the game turns out to be an absolute belter, does anyone think a large amount of people will refuse to buy it? I think its tasteless – but I’m not going to judge the developers and spite myself just because I’ve got hot under the collar (intended) about the publicity tw@ts *cough* team.
29/07/2009 at 20:17 EyeMessiah says:
@Serondal
How would you feel about jiggling penis physics in you game though? ;)
@dhex
At the risk of being typically OT, re. anime & fantasy & the male gaze; imo working on being able to parse that kind of sexualised content in a rational way is preferable to restricting exposure to it.
I enjoy anime & I enjoy some of the sexualisation in it, but I also understand where it comes from and why and how it fits into the world generally. I can indulge in the fantasy without losing my mind to it. This I suppose is the way in which I think appreciating booth babes (though personally they don’t do much for me) can be compatible with a feminist outlook.
29/07/2009 at 20:20 Serondal says:
The majority of the complaints directed against EA in this comment thread are worse than the contest it self with everything from vulgar words to right out suggestions that violence should take place against them in retaliation. It seems funny to me people can be out raged against something so vulgar then turn around and be just as if not more vulgar as a response.
What’s worse, asking people to take picture with your models for a contest or suggesting that someone kick another person in the nuts and take a picture of that? I’m sure the person that suggested that was just joking, but their joke is no better/worse than the joke in the contest graphic.
“judged not least ye be judged” and what not.
Let the booth girls get paid to do what they enjoy doing, let some people win some contest swag in the process. Let any convention goers that can not control themselves receive a swift and brutal beating followed quickly by a day in the local jail and all will be right with the world.
29/07/2009 at 20:22 Serondal says:
@EyeMessiah That’d be fine with me as well so long as it was realistic and allowed shots to the area to do the correct damage :)
29/07/2009 at 20:35 Dominic White says:
While I do think it’s rather tacky, girls in skimpy outfits have been used to promote pretty much everything since the dawn of time, so I doubt that’ll change anytime soon. Just hope they don’t look too hilariously tacky doing it.
It’s the mixture of faux-bravado, machismo and general social retardation that a lot of gamers exhibit that makes me sad for those I share a hobby with, but often share a gender with.
Pretty girls or not, seeing bikini-clad chicks at such events makes me want to ask ‘Don’t you get cold?’, not ‘Who are you fucking?’. Whatever happened to being classy?
29/07/2009 at 20:36 Hypocee says:
FTFY
29/07/2009 at 20:39 Radiant says:
So I opened this article expecting some pictures and instead I got another manifesto.
Fuck sake Gillen.
29/07/2009 at 20:40 Radiant says:
Nude games journalism if you must ask.
29/07/2009 at 20:43 Serondal says:
Hypocee -If you can tell the difference between a booth model dressed like a game character or wearing a bikini and just a normal woman standing around doing nothing related to any game nor near any booth than that is your problem, not EA’s.-
29/07/2009 at 20:45 basically... says:
In summary:
Its a bit rapey
29/07/2009 at 20:45 Hypocee says:
I couldn’t even read your second clause at first; my brain translated it all into preverbal yapping. It’s a really interesting experience to read words that your brain refuses to accept as artifacts of language, though one I don’t wish to repeat anytime soon. A ‘joke’ with a (creepy) prize! That’s a new one on me. Looks almost like a…contest? Competition? Nah. Just a joke. Just like a joke on the Internet.
29/07/2009 at 20:49 Jacques says:
Serondal, I suggested the women kick the guys in the nuts that are acting inappropriately, if anything will teach them not to act like complete morons, that will.
29/07/2009 at 20:51 Jacques says:
And as Kieron said, people weren’t just acting inappropriately towards booth babes, they were acting inappropriately towards women that were just wearing “normal” clothes, which is just disgusting.
29/07/2009 at 20:52 Hypocee says:
REPAIRS COMPLETED PLEASE TRY AGAIN
29/07/2009 at 20:53 Vandelay says:
Those that are condoning this are missing the point entirely. Of course straight males are attracted to good looking women, that is neither here nor there in this situation. It is the idiotic assumption that we should suddenly be in awe of the product simply because they stick a pair of tits next to its booth.
When this issue was raised in the forums I commented that it was the kind of behaviour I would expect from a strip joint. I would expect and accept it happening in that venue but when it is introduced into a convention/any form of advertising then it is completely inappropriate and bears no relation to product it wishes to promote. Instead, it treats the potential consumer as a complete moron who can’t think outside of the pants. This goes for this competition and the “booth babe” tradition in general. It plays to the lowest of the low, attempting to blind them from a product that obviously can’t speak for itself.
The argument that they’ve signed up for it, should expect this kind of behaviour or (even more pathetic) that they probably enjoy it is very immature. Obviously there are many people who would enjoy some of the attention, but there are others who just want the cash. Assuming that they will enjoy being slobbered all over by some primitive boys (none of them can be fully matured if they are so easily impressed with such cheap tricks) is an insult to the women and is the same stereotypical image that is being painted of the gaming community by the ad-execs that this idea originated from.
And thanks Kieron for coming up with a good comeback to Broussard, I was just going to call him a twat. It’s sad to think that people still think feminist can be used as an insult.
29/07/2009 at 21:04 Pstonie says:
If someone buys the game based on the booth babes I can’t think of a more appropriate punishment than first spending their money on it and then spending time playing it. Can you?
29/07/2009 at 21:09 Natalie says:
“(Rumour had it that they camped out in the Tron 2 panel while waiting for the/a Twilight one, blocking people who were actually interested in Tron from attending? Which sounds pretty rude, if true.)”
The problem was that they scheduled Twilight halfway through the day, so people who wanted to see not just the Disney Panel, but ANY panel before Twlight were shit out of luck. I’m pretty sure this was so they could advertise certain things to that demographic, but in that sense, (the scheduling of ) Twilight really did ruin the convention. They should have either scheduled it first thing on Thursday morning or moved it completely to the Indigo Ballroom.
The fans themselves weren’t to blame – they’re just as geeky as the rest of us. And no one heard a peep out of them after about 3pm on Thursday.
29/07/2009 at 21:09 dhex says:
At the risk of being typically OT, re. anime & fantasy & the male gaze; imo working on being able to parse that kind of sexualised content in a rational way is preferable to restricting exposure to it.
i mostly tend to agree on most other things in this world. but…it’s just that there’s something broken in the hearts of people who get too far into anything, really, but particularly this stuff. why? i do not know. perhaps it’s a social isolation thing, or a reaction to social isolation, or perhaps techniques of escapism which are never put away eventually become toxic?
It is the idiotic assumption that we should suddenly be in awe of the product simply because they stick a pair of tits next to its booth.
that’s not the assumption. the assumption is “this will attract eyeballs” which is entirely true. their assumptions are actually reasonable, if scummy.
29/07/2009 at 21:22 Kadayi says:
The EA stuff was a very bad idea. Marketing clearly fouled up it seems.
I’m not sure what to make of the Twilight stuff. Personally no matter how retarded you might consider it, I don’t think anyone really has the right to poor scorn on another peoples fascination. It says a lot about a person when they spend their time rallying against the interests and hobbies of others no?
Also who honestly cares what Fat George thinks? Look up Fail in the dictionary and his ugly mug stares back.
29/07/2009 at 21:25 LactoseTheIntolerant says:
George Brussard can fuck right off.
29/07/2009 at 21:27 LactoseTheIntolerant says:
..That was a bit harsh. Sorry, the tweet annoyed me, to put it mildly.
I don’t know how EA let this slip through.. I don’t see how it can ever have been just a bit of fun, even without the Comicon atmosphere.
29/07/2009 at 21:27 Dominic White says:
@dhex – You’re painting with a pretty broad brush there. Anime covers pretty much everything from the most innocuous of girly-girl cartoons to the freakiest of pornological nastiness. It’s a bit like saying that cartoons warp the mind because you’re lumping Fritz The Cat in along with Sylvester and Tweety.
If you wanna be a responsible adult, look at the *content*, not the style.
29/07/2009 at 21:36 Pijama says:
I wonder what would happen if we brought said socially inept lads to a proper gentlemen’s club.
29/07/2009 at 21:45 Leman says:
I say we ban Cheerleaders aswell.
Fuck em. Stupid women. Working around nerds, how dare they.
29/07/2009 at 21:45 Gott says:
Why is there so much Social Retardation among geeks?
Fair bet it’s at least partly observation bias. Stick a bunch of guys togetherand a few will be idiots. You could just as easily ask whether you’d want to leave your sister with a bunch of self-identifying “regular guys” at a football game or any other male-dominated event. More than of a few there aren’t too clear on the whole respect thing. It might not be a geek thing, just an accumulation of guys’ thing.
But seriously, this was idiot baiting at its highest. Your offering the biggest geeks about stuff they want for stuff they don’t usually do/show much success at. Its like giving away FA cup final tickets for finding the Higgs Boson. I lot of people without a clue will be all over it and fail. A lot.
29/07/2009 at 21:45 Meat Circus says:
I think whoever suggested that RPS should hold a competition “win a prize for sending in a picture of yourself kicking George Broussard in the nuts” may be on to something.
There may be quite a few takers.
Just when you think the Games Industry might be about to move beyond the wank fantasies of 14 year old boys, along come EA.
29/07/2009 at 21:49 Jacques says:
Pijama, they’d get beaten up by bouncers and then thrown down whatever concrete steps they have.
29/07/2009 at 21:51 Pijama says:
Ah, yes, Lactose is right – George Broussard, fuck off.
This industry needs someone to come along and challenge them all by preferably kicking everybody’s arse. Preferably a woman.
29/07/2009 at 21:53 Pijama says:
@Jacques – I doubt they would even manage to get a lass to sit besides them to have one of them “chats”, let alone provide reason for a bouncer to work them up.
29/07/2009 at 21:54 Pijama says:
ARGH… where is the edit button?!?!
@Jacques – I was being ironic. ;)
29/07/2009 at 22:00 dhex says:
@dhex – You’re painting with a pretty broad brush there. Anime covers pretty much everything from the most innocuous of girly-girl cartoons to the freakiest of pornological nastiness. It’s a bit like saying that cartoons warp the mind because you’re lumping Fritz The Cat in along with Sylvester and Tweety.
If you wanna be a responsible adult, look at the *content*, not the style.
i agree, the brush i’m painting with is so large it requires two hands just to hold it. hence my earlier application of the precautionary principle and its potential for falsity.
on the other hand, unlike say slowing down the pipeline for medicines or foods, there’s no overtly negative consequences to being negatively predisposed towards a certain type of entertainment. a child raised without anime isn’t going to be damaged in any way, any more than a child raised without games or cable tv or “young adult” fiction would be particularly harmed. there’s going to be some gaps in their interactions with others, to be sure, but that’s hardly fatal. it may even be enriching.
i’m not saying it’s got to be germaine greer all the way down (and kudos to mr. gillen for invoking that image in his original article) or anything quite that stark, but rather a hopefulness for the future sans anime. a future we can all believe in…after the fema camp roundups, i mean. :)
29/07/2009 at 22:00 Pace says:
As people have already pointed out, EA already paid people to protest this game. Why should we take this as anything but an attempt to get people to do the same for real?
29/07/2009 at 22:02 Dracko says:
kieron gillen commits acts of lust on a copy of NME
dominic: no anime is pretty much universally terrible and pandering
29/07/2009 at 22:04 Meat Circus says:
@Pace:
It is, to be frank, not possible for EA to destroy their good reputation. Because they don’t have one.
So they have nothing to lose in acting like tools.
29/07/2009 at 22:08 Dracko says:
Absolutely fabulous article, Liz!!! I loved it & agreed with what you had to say, for the most part. I am a huge Twilight fan, but I’m a fangirl (at least not in public, hehe). I had friends who went, camped out, attended the panel, and are not shrill fangirls. They are grown-up women who are passionate about the books, the movie, and wanted to show the cast that not everyone has to scream. And they did. I hate that people think those of us who are over 17 and are Twilight fans are being childish. Twilight focuses on very adult ideas like true love, souls, good & evil, etc., and there’s nothing childish about being a fan.
Thanks for the awesome article!!
29/07/2009 at 22:09 Hypocee says:
Sony.
29/07/2009 at 22:14 Hypocee says:
I could not not-do this. I hope I do not offend, because I am not frowning or wagging a finger. I am literally, physically grinning and chuckling.
29/07/2009 at 22:16 Meat Circus says:
Robert Pattinson has nice hair.
29/07/2009 at 22:18 Serondal says:
@Jacques – As far as men doing things to women that are not booth babes that his nothing to do with this contest, men can be pigs in general. Nothing in this story says anything about the guys trying to take pictures with them, they were just being totally rude off hand.
@Hypocee – I can’t even read what I wrote, so I don’t blame you for not being able to read it. Allow me to try again.
If you can’t tell a booth babe from a normal chick you’re F@#$@# stupid; EA is not responsible.
Sexy models have been used to sell things for a very long time for everything from hair shampoo to cars. Sex sells, if it didn’t people wouldn’t use it, it is as plain as that. If you want to be angry at someone be angry at the human race in general. A company is going to do whatever it can to sell its product, promotions and contests and nothing new. Get over it and move on to your next angry subject.
29/07/2009 at 22:21 Radicand says:
Obviously, this is a retarded and offensive (to everybody, not just women) idea for a competition, but is anybody actually surprised? They’re making an action game out of Dante’s Fucking Inferno. Clearly being a little short on brainpower and judgment is a prerequisite to join the team.
For a little balance though, I have to point out that as sexist generalisations go, painting people who enjoy games as socially inept sex-pests is not exactly RPS’s finest moment.
29/07/2009 at 22:25 Serondal says:
and also, this is Comicon, not everyone there is a gamer.
29/07/2009 at 22:25 reaper47 says:
Further proof what a douche-fest 21st century games marketing has become. Mix douchery with nerdiness and you get a disgusting hybrid, described in this sad article.
29/07/2009 at 22:33 Muzman says:
I don’t know if it’s been posted yet but here’s another story about how this stuff isn’t new:
http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/?p=202
Also this has nothing to do with geeks being social retards and everything to do with geeks being “lads” like everyone else these days. It’s not nerd culture that’s so much the problem but contemporary masculinity all over. Under the auspices of self expression males have been expected to be horny idiots for the amusement of themselves and others for some time. Doesn’t matter if it’s comics or extreme sports you like.
It’s not new either, and girls who have grown up in this climate even accept it.
There’s been a few flare ups over this sort of thing in the last year or so as the old guard start paying attention (as debates and apologism over “liberated” male behaviour end up at scienceblogs and tweedy places like that). I’m a bit surprised it took people so long to notice.
29/07/2009 at 22:33 T. Slothrop says:
Wow, George Broussard is an asshole.
Also the sheer level of immaturity people have, it’s like outside of a familial setting they have never have spoken to a lady in their lives… oh wait.
29/07/2009 at 22:54 Solario says:
It makes me so very sad that Twilight is being heralded as aligned with feminist values, when the books and stories are so deplorably sexist.
The women are stock characters, so devoided of personality and soul, they can do nothing but cling to the male leads and gush about how wonderful and handsome they are. The women do NOTHING in those books aside from moan about how they aren’t worthy of the men, slavishly adhering to the men’s every whim and constantly ending up serving as nothing more than damsels in distress.
All this being said, there’s nothing wrong with the twilighters going to see their icons and having a social gathering of like-minded people. The only problem is that because the scheduling was so poorly planned by the people arranging it, they ended up buy four-day pass to something they’d only have a clear interest in attending one day- robing the boys and girls who were interested in the actual ComicCon of the possibility of going all four days.
Secondly, the twilighters, again due to poor management, ended up having to sit in the exhibition rooms for two or three panels, they, again, have no or little interest in. This once again robs other people of going to panels they’d actually want to attend.
But honestly, they should just change the name of the SDCC. It’s apparently mostly about the Hollywood stars, movies and TV shows and less about the actual comics.
PS. This whole Dante’s Inferno thing was just about the most idiotic stunt ever. Yes, Booth Babes are paid to stand around looking sexy, but that doesn’t mean you should go around harassing them at any given time. They aren’t prostitutes. And even if they were, I’m pretty sure none from the harassing party were paying them. Even if you see a prostitute walking down the street, you don’t naturally grab her ass and then keep walking. I would have much rather have them do a contest, where you were suppose to take pictures of people doing various other sins at the Con. Like taking a picture of (possibly me if I could have gone) dragging sixty long boxes of musty old issues of “Rom, Spaceknight!” over to my hotelroom and filing the photo under “Gluttony.”
29/07/2009 at 23:03 Serondal says:
If only I could find a way to harness the over reaction of angry internet mens I could A) create a bomb and conquer the world or B) Create a free energy source and bring about a new age of peace and happiness. Of course if everything was all peace and happiness angry internet man might not be angry, which would bring about the total collapse of this new world so . . . I’ll go with the bomb, if only.
29/07/2009 at 23:10 Dinger says:
In other news, the “Are games art?” crowd got their definitive answer in the marketing campaign for the video game adaptation of one of the all-time great works of poetry.
For those of you scoring at home, the answer is: “somewhere between Hustler and Patrick Nagel”
29/07/2009 at 23:10 Tims says:
As frustrating as this is, I’m encouraged by the response to this promotion. It seems mostly negative and there’s been some reasoned thoughts. I think gaming is growing up slowly. 5 years ago, I think less people would have given it any thought.
That said, god.. so far to go..
29/07/2009 at 23:11 IdleHands says:
I heard only a little earlier in the day about EA’s greed competition and thought it was quite neat. I work as a photographer, so I viewed it like any photographers competition. I did not think about the lust sin in relation to the gaming public. Yeah . . EA when you want to do a competition about lust, be really careful and be very explicit in the rules, to . . you know avoid this whole mess you just created.
“How would you feel about jiggling penis physics in you game though? ;)”
Your very wrong. . . they do not jiggle they flop. Now beer guys they jiggle (btw I now want a game that has beer gut jiggle physics)
29/07/2009 at 23:24 Gutter says:
@ bleh : “So, if your boss asked you to strip off in the middle of the office and do star jumps for the amusement of everybody else…you’d just obey without question?”
No I wouldn’t, because it’s not in my job description.
And I’m sure that being the target of a contest focusing on their boobs by a multinational isn’t in theirs either.
The point is that they have enough idiots looking up their skirts without having someone encouraging it by making it worth money. Maybe I’m an idiot for thinking this, but so be it.
29/07/2009 at 23:25 Railick says:
It’d be sweet to be able to kick a guy in his beer gut and watch it jiggle violently as he falls back. BTW why aren’t there boob physics for fat guys in games? (or are there?)
On the flip side of this Tims I’m sure there have been many dudes at the Comiccon taking their picture with booth babes who will keep them and cherish them for the rest of their lives. ;P
29/07/2009 at 23:34 Cooper says:
This is all grossly insulting. Moreso that the cynic in me can’t help but think that the ‘apology’ was planned all along, and this is just a marketing ploy. Though I appreciate that Keiron didn’t mention the game(s) associated.
In any case, it always saddens me that there remains a not insignificant amount of latent misogyny, well, everywhere.
29/07/2009 at 23:42 Breaker Morant's ghost says:
Perfectly reasonable promotion with a lot of virgins over-reacting in the hope that girls will like them for appearing sensitive.
29/07/2009 at 23:48 Nerd Rage says:
I have only one question: Who the fuck is George Broussard, and why should I care what he tweets?
Rhetorical question, if it isn’t obvious. Text consistently fails to carry tone of voice for me, no matter how I go about striking the keys. Rhetorical answer: George Broussard (noun) – A douchebag known to use the controversy generated by EA marketing scandals to draw attention to himself in a desperate attempt to make us think he’s still relevant.
I think I’m being generous by using the word “still” at the end there.
29/07/2009 at 23:55 Railick says:
@Breaker Morant’s Ghost = Exactly.
30/07/2009 at 00:02 Pstonie says:
It’ll work, too. Right now those girls are probably remarking to each other what a good friend said virgin is.
30/07/2009 at 00:03 Bhazor says:
Oh feminists and their crazy opinions that women have feelings. Lulz.
Good old EA.
30/07/2009 at 00:06 Bunny says:
Thank you for writing something about this. The atmosphere is the main reason I don’t go to cons, which is a shame since I miss out on the big social side of being a geek, having mostly non-geek friends.
As a caveat, I am by no means conventionally attractive, but have experienced sexual harrassment pretty much since I turned around 10, on and off, and sexual assault sadly a few times, and it doesn’t matter whether I am dressed up in something skimpy like a booth babe or slobbing around in my dad’s jumper and raggy jeans. The vast majority of guys are decent people, but the few who do think it is okay to do this stuff do it often enough to make it a big problem. I can’t even imagine how bad it is for my more conventionally attractive friends.
The problem with this is, you are taking an emotionally charged event, where the vast majority of attendees will be straight and male, where harassment of women (both booth-babes, PR women and just your fellow con-goers) is already a known issue, and telling men they will get shiny things if they “commit acts of lust”. I also can’t help but wonder what some peoples’ expectations would be regarding the “sinful night” with the babes; did these women agree to be escorts for the night? You’re basically throwing fuel on the fire.
Fact is, regardless of whether you think booth babes should “expect it” (and I could go on about that, but I am already having verbal diarhhoea), this sort of thing would increase the likelihood of ALL WOMEN at the event getting unwanted attention.
30/07/2009 at 00:06 Will says:
“You don’t ask women if they’re fucking someone as an opening gambit.”
I would suggest “You don’t ask people if they’re fucking someone as an opening gambit.” is better. Inclusive language cuts both ways.
30/07/2009 at 00:10 Railick says:
Virgins must learn the dangers of platonic relationships sooner or later ;)
I surprisingly convinced my wife to fall in love with me by being a relatively dirty bastard who also cries at sad movies and plays video games. It goes without saying that I’m personally incredibly lucky.
@Bhazor – No one said women don’t have feelings. You seem to be forgetting that the women in question are highly paid professional models that do this for a living.
30/07/2009 at 00:16 Hypocee says:
Serondal – Except I seem to be your main remaining opponent and I at least have been very careful to separate EA’s incitement from the more general issue of booth babes, as Gillen was. Target: young men (using the term loosely) who are already pretty horrible in aggregate, with a documented history of being unable to tell whobooth babes from civilians, let alone one company’s employees from another’s. Action: Tell them outright to harass (‘commiting an act of lust’, remember, not for example ‘with’) as many women as possible. More pics=more chances to win!
30/07/2009 at 00:18 Hypocee says:
‘Highly paid’!
Fuck
You!
30/07/2009 at 00:22 Pstonie says:
I think he meant highly paid for someone who gets paid to stand.
30/07/2009 at 00:38 Railick says:
Just looking around and general spokes model agencies they’re offering from 20 to 100$s an hour to do this type of thing without any college training ect. If you have any info on exactly how much these girls make I might be convinced I’m wrong.
30/07/2009 at 00:42 Bleh says:
@Gutter,
Except the competition is “Take a photo of yourself with a booth babe”. I’m pretty sure they’d expect to have their picture taken at an event. Doesn’t mention boobs or upskirts.
And as you say, if it’s not in the job description. Don’t do it. Or are they less capable of thinking for themselves?
@Hypocee,
Quote we’ve had so far was £300/day. But not from those specific booth babes, admittedly.
-
Introduce bouncers.
30/07/2009 at 00:45 Railick says:
300 quid a day is a HELL of a lot more than I make.
30/07/2009 at 00:52 Gap Gen says:
Hang on, the gene for liking games? Seems a bit specific for a gene.
30/07/2009 at 00:57 Hypocee says:
Reported average pay I see is $25.00 an hour, and they’re paid not only to stand all day and put up with your bullshit (I luv SA too were liek rebel BBF FYAD Luls) but – I see upon investigation – to often deliver product spiels, crowd control, and anti-theft patrol. In addition to hugging stinky fat nerds lulz.
30/07/2009 at 01:00 Railick says:
25 dollars an hour is very well paid mate
30/07/2009 at 01:17 Pstonie says:
And who doesn’t get paid to put up with someone else’s bullshit?
30/07/2009 at 01:38 MD says:
You should be fired for that. Out of a cannon, into the sun.
30/07/2009 at 02:55 Hypocee says:
For very-short-term model work in LA, no it’s not. It’s waitress’-second-job, moonlighting-college-student pay.
Notice the italics. I’d have to be paid a bunch more than that to even try to tolerate your perpetu-fratboy schtick, let alone times a thousand, and I’d still be surprised to last three days at any pay rate.
30/07/2009 at 03:35 Nick says:
RE: Penis physics – The thought of being able to helicopter enemies to death is somewhat pleasing to me.
Apart from that, I agree with everyone. Yes.
It is quite worrying that some people think is socially acceptable to pinch someone you don’t know on the arse (for example), I have always been somewhat socially withdrawn or awkward, but I was always aware of what was inappropriate behaviour.. I can’t understand how anyone would think that was ok.
30/07/2009 at 04:19 IdleHands says:
@Nick
Imagine, penis physics will bring a whole new humiliation to tea bagging. Do you go for the ‘slap n slide’, the ‘club’, or the ‘bouncer’.
RE- booth girls
You can’t take on that job not knowing the hassles you’d have to deal with. Gawping / bad pick up lines are sad and annoying, but are kind of expected. That said there is a limit, i.e. touching and general creepy stalker-esque behaviour (invading personal space / staying far far too long). No one is paid enough to deal with that.
30/07/2009 at 05:52 TheSombreroKid says:
You’re totally right of course EA’s only fault was thinking Gamers were human, unfortunatly most of them are fuck heads. I personally don’t think it’s thier fault that people can’t understand the flyer, as british people, Americans can’t understand our humour but does that mean we should change it?
30/07/2009 at 06:23 Muzman says:
I know it’d be a sea change, so I’ll put it in terms you understand. One day you might see the wrong side of the credit crunch, so pro-tip: if they like you you don’t have to pay ‘em.
30/07/2009 at 08:57 Kieron Gillen says:
Dracko: Melody Maker.
KG
30/07/2009 at 09:08 SwiftRanger says:
Seeing how EA managed to change the perception of Dragon Age this year (in a bad way) I am not surprised by this at all. Makes you think about how people actually go to college/get paid for a PR job. What are they thinking?
30/07/2009 at 09:20 AbyssUK says:
Next year the ‘booth babes/dudes” should have a competition to photograph themselves with the geekiest looking attendee. Then everybody is happy/sad.
30/07/2009 at 09:21 AbyssUK says:
Also if EA have any photographic evidence of women being assaulted at the comic con, then I hope they hand it, and any other evidence over to the police.
30/07/2009 at 09:28 Catastrophe says:
“So how do you know Jamie?”
“I’m just a friend”
“Sexual or other?”
“… Inappropriate!”
Son of a bitch stole my opener!
30/07/2009 at 11:33 Chaz says:
All women are whores, they love it really.
;)
30/07/2009 at 12:44 Hypocee says:
We’re all whores, just a-haggling over the price.
And of course the San Diego Comic Con takes place in San Diego. My bad, mental carryover from reading about lots of E3 stuff.
30/07/2009 at 12:45 Hypocee says:
Italics, I wish I could quit you.
30/07/2009 at 12:51 KalleR says:
Wow, a shitload of status quo-defenders around here.
Contrary to the popular belief, just because sexism is rampant these days and has been for centuries, doesn’t make it okay.
And if you say ”there’s nothing we can do about it, that’s just the way it is” then you’re one of the worst kind of misogynists.
30/07/2009 at 13:03 l1ddl3monkey says:
@ Broussard: oi mate; you’re fat and I’ll throw you in the river. Fuck off you bellend.
To everyone else: The soul eating monstrosity that is the EA marketing department makes mugs of us ALL once again. How many web pages of free publicity has this stunt generated?
As the reaction to this kind of thing is statistically predictable I guarantee you we’re all, right now, dancing to EA’s happy little tune exactly like they wanted us to.
30/07/2009 at 13:09 cullnean says:
uh, what?
sorry was to busy scratching my head at the prisoner remake to notice.
got to be bad whan
JESUS + GANDALF= meh
30/07/2009 at 13:10 Pstonie says:
Alright, since I’ve already invested time here I’ll throw another two cents in.
We’re talking about the lowest common denominators of humanity here. Men and women who exchange sexuality and feigned affection for money. They do it because they have given over the rudder to their most basic desires, being women and security respectively, and whatever moral reservations they’re able to aspire to has been rationalised away.
Technically the women can say no to this job, but the reality, I imagine, is that most of the time they really can’t. They need the money and saying no really won’t change anything on the outside, because right behind them in the queue is another pair of tits who can flash a fake smile at a moment’s notice.
It’s supply and demand. If these idiots didn’t want to slobber all over the women, the women would be out of work, and if the women couldn’t set aside their repulsion of these “stinky nerds” then the stinky nerds would probably never engage a woman in conversation who didn’t have a body shaped like a beanbag.
It’s human nature, one of the lowest forms of it. It’s not pretty, but there it is. It’s all oversimplified of course, but this is a comment on a blog.
I have to give kudos to EA here, because they sort of deserve it, but mostly because the axe down the middle of their heads, which they deserve more, is something I can’t give them right now. Over the years EA has established itself as the epitome of a modern corporation, able to pimp artists, hussies and programmers under the same brand name, with no repercussions apart from more press and more brand recognition.
30/07/2009 at 13:34 Meat Circus says:
@cullnean:
I thought the trailer looked ace.
Big Gay Number 2 = WIN. Also, the Village looks amazing. That’s not your Grandad’s North Wales.
30/07/2009 at 14:03 Psychopomp says:
I’m not going to touch this debate with a twelve foot pole.
30/07/2009 at 14:25 cullnean says:
@meat circus
im not so sure, but will watch if it arives in blighty
30/07/2009 at 14:45 Joey says:
I think you’re all immature if you think this is immature.
30/07/2009 at 14:49 Nick says:
“a shitload of status quo-defenders”
Really? I didn’t see that many compared to the opposite.
30/07/2009 at 16:28 Hypocee says:
And 9/11 was an inside job, 1337monkey. Say again: Sony.
30/07/2009 at 17:30 Serondal says:
What you guys should really be worried about is that all this beautiful booth babes are going to get skin cancer from going to the tanning bed!
30/07/2009 at 17:54 Serondal says:
Question, I’ve never actually BEEN to one of these things so my previous arguments must be taken at face value (as little as that is) but, is everyone at one of these things actually a fat stinky nerd? I had a friend who went to Comiccon a few years ago who was an aspiring comic book artist and he was actually quite the ladies man (he looked a lot like a young Johnnie Depp) Certainly he could not have been the only good looking, non-stinky nerd to show up? (Certainly his other friend that went with him more than balanced out the equation being 500 pounds and stinking like a load of hot trash full of baby diapers)
If the people that show up to these things are really this bad, sexually assaulting people ect then I’d have to retract my previous statments. In my mind I have an image of comic con being a clean place where people act professioanly and only take pictures with booth babes, but since I have no experience I defer to those that have actaully gone before. If every single male at one of these things is a fat stinky pile of ego that semi-rapes everything near him then agreed, this contest is a very bad idea. It’d be like releasing women nude with bags of acid tied to their bodies into a crowd at Woodstock.
30/07/2009 at 18:18 l1ddl3monkey says:
@ Hypocee: WTF does 911 have to do with what I posted?
Let me put it another way: Hi I have a degree in marketing and a former very successful career in PR and am positive that this is a textbook set-up for a viral marketing campaign driven by negative impact. Even down to the third party “leaking” or drawing attention to the original flyer and the almost immediate retraction and apology which you will notice has absolutely no effect on the amount of publicity generated. Look at some other instances of this sort of thing and you will see that all of them follow a pattern. That’s because there’s an established pattern for this sort of campaign. If they follow it to the letter then expect some form of headline grabbing legal action arising from this (that ultimately goes nowhere and quietly vanishes without trace) in the next 4-6 weeks.
Also if you are going to address me directly then try spelling my name right.
30/07/2009 at 18:35 Pstonie says:
The funny thing is that they put off people intelligent enough to be disgusted by their actions, but that’s a fraction of the market share and a fraction I’m guessing they don’t mind losing, in order to gain many more empty eyes cast in their direction.
I’ve been noticing this more and more recently. Ad campaigns that don’t even bother to hide the ugly truth of their product anymore, because that truth is invisible to the (much) larger market share that they’re targeting. It’s like democratic marketing: Majority rules.
30/07/2009 at 19:24 Alan Au says:
I think it would have been fun to run around with a sign saying “EA’s contest sucks” and have people pose for photos with it.
30/07/2009 at 19:29 Serondal says:
I think most of us can agree the people they’ve put off with this probably wouldn’t have purchased their game to begin with.
30/07/2009 at 19:51 xtinctionevent says:
@ Serondal
Not necessarily true – I find EA’s distasteful marketing ploy reprehensible, but am still most definitely intending on purchasing Dante’s Inferno upon release.
Also, l1ddl3monkey raises a valid point that could probably have been summarized as ‘there’s no such thing as bad publicity.’ Much shaking of fists and frowning aside, it has raised the profile of Dante’s Inferno beyond the sphere of those of us who were actually looking forward to the title before EA dropped the proverbial ball with their ill-conceived marketing shenanigans.
30/07/2009 at 19:57 Hypocee says:
There’s no such thing as bad press. It’s a conspiracy. We’re all just sheeple who can’t see what’s REALLY going on, unlike highly successful PR reps with marketing degrees. This backlash is exactly the intended effect, rather than – say – a dumb brainstorm, not caught by people who had ever been to SDCC, from some disconnected manager with a marketing degree who isn’t busy misspelling things under an awesome alias on a web forum. NOTHING is EVER a mistake. It’s a PLAN. EA is getting exactly what they wanted, the Illuminati have us arrrrblblbl!
Spot the difference please; I can’t.
Always remember, there’s no such thing as bad press. There’s no such thing as bad press. Eyes, eyes, eyes. Just ask Sony. They went from undisputed, ten-year, world-girdling gaming champion to two-platform also-ran in only three years of front-page consumer abuse, controversy marketing and widely discussed public jackassery. SUCCESS. Just ask Acclaim; they pulled out the Big Gun over and over for years to save their sinking company – well, I suppose you can’t because they’re not around anymore, never mind. Just ask Nokia. It only took them two hardware cycles as a laughingstock before they accomplished their real goal, which was to…license a slightly modified Java SDK. To themselves. Sometime, probably. SINISTER. Just ask Microsoft. All they had to do was release a terribly broken machine, and we played right into their hands with our lawsuits and consumer complaints leading to an unprecedented, unparalleled multi-billion dollar consumer electronics warranty extension. VICTORY. Just ask John Romero. From a leading light of the industry at the preeminent company in PC gaming, he struck out on a campaign of profligacy and aggression, riding the gaming world’s waves of disgust and scorn to his current gig producing the occasional cellphone game. SUCK IT DOWN. Just ask Rockstar. That sales spike after they got GTA:SA pulled from Walmart speaks for itself, and it says CONGRATULATIONS. Just ask George Broussard. Eleven years of teasers and demo reels, each one sparking wider, more heated discussion than the last, and we all know how that turned out – BIG MONEY.
There’s no such thing as bad press. There’s no such thing as bad press. It’s all part of a PLAN. There’s no such thing as bad press. If people are talking about you, you’re WINNING. EA is riding high on this wave.
It’s true. I learned it in school.
30/07/2009 at 20:11 Railick says:
xtinctionevent – Personally I never even heard of it until this happened so I guess on some level I’m an example of a success. The contest certainly didn’t offend me on any level.
30/07/2009 at 20:31 Hypocee says:
And yes, Serondal, that’s exactly what we’re saying. Obviously not all guests are mental adolescents, but they tend to be the face of any big event there. There are hypothetical situations where I’d be less enraged in favour of mere disappointment at the disrespect towards their employees, but I’ve seen videos and read accounts from SDCC over the years. Issuing those instructions toward their own booth babes would have been classless, and arguably employee abuse, in any setting. Issuing those instructions toward all (actual or suspected) booth babes would have been disgusting and irresponsible in any setting. At SDCC it was just playing with fire, to the extent that any reasonable person should have known it was a bad idea. Had Funny Marketing Man hypothetically shown the brochure to me ahead of time, I know that would have been the first thing out of my mouth. ‘A contest involving “Acts of Lust”, really? At SDCC? Have you been there?’
30/07/2009 at 20:38 l1ddl3monkey says:
Nokia: worlds largest manufacturer of mobile phones. Suffering hard from their bad publicity.
Microsoft: yeah both them and the X Box market have slid into obscurity since that little fiasco.
GTA IV: only shifted 1,890,000 units. Just on the PS3 (that’s made by Sony by the way) and SA was the biggest selling title ever on the PS2.
As with all the cases you’ve cited you’re confusing shitty business decisions and shocking QA for deliberately generated bad publicity.
Also thanks for thinking you have the slightest clue what I was hinting at and for equating marketing tactics with belief in the Illuminati and 9/11 conspiracies. Equivocation and ad hominem in one very long BAAAAAAAAAAW post? Was the MENSA office closed today or were you just bored of 4 Chan?
30/07/2009 at 20:47 Railick says:
Can’t we all get along?
30/07/2009 at 20:53 Pstonie says:
@Hypocee: The success of individual products and brand recognition are two very different things. You’re making a case for corporate incompetence, and it’s a valid one, but that same incompetence and disconnection comes through when the next project is being evaluated based on the public visibility of something loosely related.
No matter which direction the issue with this contest goes in, it’s for the most part unrelated to the actual product because it’s taken on a life of its own. The result is that the news of the game’s release rides on a wave of something that has a lot more power to spread by itself than the release of another shitty EA game would’ve done. It’s not negative press for the game, it’s negative press for something else, it doesn’t matter what.
At the very least they greenlighted the idea because either way it’s a win-win for them.
OT: Do you have a chart, some kind of guideline of when to use italics and when to use all caps? I’ve always wanted to work out the pattern used in internet rants.
30/07/2009 at 21:36 Hypocee says:
Not some of us. I suppose I may be a bit overreactive to conspiracy theories due to my location and interests, but they do nark me right off – and make no mistake: Whether it deserves quite this degree of pissiness or not, despite the fact I cheerfully acknowledge it could be true (Acclaim), this is a little baby conspiracy theory. I don’t appreciate the kind of person who casually advances them them, I don’t appreciate the implicit insult in a CT’s proposition, I don’t appreciate the positions that are served by believing in them without overwhelming evidence, and I don’t appreciate the heads-I-win,tails-you-lose tautological cheating used to perpetuate them.
—————-
Hey, deja vu! This distinction’s been having a little wave of importance lately. It’s great that people are becoming more versed in the fallacies, but it is possible to pursue them too eagerly. An ad hominem is when I try to invalidate an argument or position based on the other beliefs or actions of a person who holds it. What you saw here was much simpler – what we call an ‘insult’.
Here is another. It employs sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.
It twoo. Anything that does not completely kill a company forever is not a mistake and does not cost money. Acclaim. MS’ entertainment division’s profits, planned vs. minus a couple billion. Sony (specifically ‘people will buy anything with “playstation” on it’ and AllIWantForXmasIsAPSP).
So what were you oh-so-subtly ‘hinting at’ with this?
I thought you were saying that EA’s Inferno marketing team produced and distributed these contest flyers with the premeditated, primary goal of causing outrage. Have I misinterpreted you?
What would you expect to happen if this were a lamentable – and lambastable – mistake by a few thoughtless people in a large entertainment company?
Does this differ in any way from your prediction for what will happen if we’re all ‘dancing to EA’s happy little tune’?
30/07/2009 at 22:15 Railick says:
The real question is here, how can I train my new dog not to sexually assault ME and my arm. I’ve got scars both emotional and physical
30/07/2009 at 22:25 Hypocee says:
Pstonie: True enough. I’m well aware this won’t make the dinkiest dent in Inferno‘s sales. Hell, I’m just waiting until whichever Kotaku monkey is behind the curve this time reports it as ‘news’ next week; in my book that will mark its formal passage from the hivemind. I have absolutely no intention of wasting my ‘breath’ around launch ranting about ‘dont buy this remeber that thing they did at cc wont somebody think of the booth babes?!’.
My goals in writing comments here have nothing to do with Inferno‘s or even EA’s bottom line. 1. Simply venting. The callous contempt for various parties that this contest displayed enrages me. By writing, discussing, fact-checking, reading and editing my reactions I add nuance to my memory and fix it in place, besides which it simply feels good to talk to other people to whom this storm in a teacup is important. 2. To raise and preserve awareness. To keep whatever public pressure we can on the powers that be. To remind myself and others to keep watching them. To raise the odds however slightly that anyone who’d gotten hurt by this or gets hurt by any future iteration would get help, sue, go public, set off an investigation, whatever – and in turn, in distant theory, to encourage the profession responsible for it to put in a bit more thought, display a bit more class, next time they’re playing ‘edgy’ marketing games. Maybe there’ll be some small but important policy change at SDCC as a result of this. Hey, it could happen. In that light I actually view it as a good thing that I mostly see stories leaning toward ‘EA done fucked up’ rather than any attachment to Inferno. The game doesn’t have any relevance, this is a thoughtless screwup (or a sinister stunt!!) by a team at a big, powerful company that could have happened with any of half a dozen of their franchises.
As you see, I dispute that. Cynical as I try to be, I think this sort of flap is more likely to hurt than help them on a wide front, and to be irrelevant at best on the narrower front because of the public connection to EA rather than Inferno. I even fondly imagine that an editor or two might deliberately have chosen that perspective just so that they wouldn’t be publicising the game, though that one’s probably false. Anyway, I also refuse to believe without evidence that the team thought a brouhaha would be a win. Napoleon’s Razor – I choose, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to believe in incompetence over malice. It is naive in some cases. I still consciously choose to do it. Keeps my blood pressure down, if nothing else.
I do apologise for the discomfort to bystanders. 1. I am somewhat averse to using italics for agrammatical clauses. 2. I was deliberately trying to channel the newsgroup/TimeCube/InfoWars flavour, and shouting seemed the more appropriate style. 3. When I went back through the editing passes, the caps gave an excellent visual rhythm to the litany that I couldn’t bear to strip out. 4. In the past 24 hours I’ve been burned thrice by failed tag closures :) Of course, those are entirely personal and situational reasons. As you can see from virtually any of my text, I view the ability to spit on any particular style guide as a great Internet privilege, to be exercised at every opportunity.
31/07/2009 at 15:52 l1ddl3monkey says:
Basically I broke the golden rule and got upset by some words on a screen which, viewed in that light, is both sad and pathetic.
I would like to point out that you, Hypocee, descended into rant mode before I did and despite your eloquent retraction I believe your knee jerked first and hardest. However: that was yesterday and this is the internet. I took offence to your implication that, because I suggested it was deliberate, I was some sort of conspiracy headcase. You did the conclusion jumping, I did the frothing at the mouth, neither of us got anywhere. Yay internet.
And yes; you are correct I was implying the marketing thing was deliberate and an established practice. Doesn’t mean that every time it happens it’s deliberate and I didn’t mean to imply that (although I clearly did imply that) but this one was textbook enough to be unlikely to be a mistake (and it’s EA, who’s marketing department is bigger than God’s, they rarely make mistakes).
31/07/2009 at 16:27 Naive says:
If this happens all the time, every year. Why isn’t the model agency protecting their models, or the event organiser hiring security/bouncers. They’d be cheaper than a booth babe.
Do the event organisers have to green light such competitions too? They’d know the crowd better than anybody. Is anybody even trying to change anything about these events because of this? What’s the point reporting this at all? It’s just “haha, look at EA”. Investigate. Make it a proper scandal for everybody involved, encourage change! Change the World! Yeeeah!
31/07/2009 at 16:32 Pstonie says:
Either way, we’ll know if he was correct when a story surfaces in a few weeks about a related lawsuit. My money’s still on this being deliberate.
While Napoleon was correct it should be noted that he was not alive in the time of EA (unless you believe the conspiracy theorists, in which case he’s Danny DeVito).
“All of this has happened before, and it will happen again.”
31/07/2009 at 16:48 Naive says:
Rather than try and embarrass EA, who don’t care. I think concentrating on the event organisers and model agency would be far more effective. Embarrass them through association with it. They won’t be as happy about bad publicity as EA are. And as such will be pissed off with them and won’t want to be associated in the future. Then EA gets pissed at its marketing for letting that happen.
It’s a theory anyway.
31/07/2009 at 18:14 Hypocee says:
No.’Somebody might do a SLAPP, then give up’ does not distinguish a sinister trick from a mistake that pissed a lot of people off.
Dihydrogen monoxide will be found in the tumour.
01/08/2009 at 08:12 drygear says:
Well, EA (along with this comment thread) is certainly doing a good job of proving Heather Chaplin wrong.