By Jim Rossignol on August 6th, 2009 at 11:22 am.
Having been messing around with UT3 again in the wake of the ongoing Make Something Unreal competition, I’ve picked up a load of levels and mods, some of which I’ll probably post about here in the next few days. The one that I want to get out of the way first is the excellent third-person demon/zombie shooter, The Haunted. (It’s an Unreal Tournament 3 mod, obviously.) Now I’m betting there are few people here who will sign for a moratorium on zombie games in 2010, but until then this is a genuinely excellent piece of work. There’s a single player game, and multiplayer in which “humans” take on demons controlled by other players. The core concept for solo play is “just try and stay alive”. And that really does become tricky as the ammo runs out and the baddies pile in. It’s beautifully conceived and executed, and supernaturally bleak weather rolls in as the game unfolds, making it even more threatening. Get it here, or watch the video below for more flavour.
PLAY THAT GUITAR! Nneeeaaaoooowooooo! Note: the mod does not feature terrible ax.
06/08/2009 at 11:34 skrat says:
Seems like a massive combination of a variety of games… resi 4, zombie master, killing floor, left 4 dead etc. etc. Otherwise looks and seems rather good.
06/08/2009 at 11:39 Davee says:
@skrat: And a little Gears of War thrown in i think. But yes, it does look good! Too bad I haven’t gotten around to buy UT3 yet. Maby some of these mods will change that – the last competition sure did with Red Orchestra.
06/08/2009 at 11:44 Diogo Ribeiro says:
Oh my god, that’s some funky gib!
06/08/2009 at 11:55 LewieP says:
1:20
FALLLCCCOOONNN PUNCH!
06/08/2009 at 11:56 The Fanciest of Pants says:
I’ll sign a petition AGAINST a moratorium on zombie games in 2010.
There is no such thing as too many zombies.
06/08/2009 at 12:08 Fenchurch says:
@The Fanciest of Pants
And in the game, too!
06/08/2009 at 12:31 l1ddl3monkey says:
I noticed last night that UT3 is on my Steam games “not currently installed” list. I don’t remember buying it but it’s something called the “Black Edition” which sounds like something I might have bought in a sale (according to my receipts I bought it last year for not very much money which supports this hypothesis).
Are there any ads for UT3 mods that don’t involve zombies and/or horrific geeeeeetar solos?
The Make Something Unreal tournament did once throw up a mod I absolutely loved; I can’t remember the name of it but it was the one where you roll about in different balls solving rolly-ball type physics puzzles like a giant hamster from MENSA. Very much fun.
06/08/2009 at 13:02 Howard says:
Dear God.
First up, that was my first and LAST UT3 mod – whichever moron designed the login feature for that game and forced you to make a new account for a mod needs bloody shooting.
Second up, AWFUL mod. Desperately ugly with the least inspired model design I have ever seen.
That aside, why is that people who make zombie games insist on them being terrible? Why the obsession with no ammo? Why the obsession with piss-poor controls? Why the obsession with piss-poor cameras? I just don’t get it…
06/08/2009 at 13:28 Nafe says:
I think RPS should have a whip-round to pay for Howards stickuphisarseectomy.
06/08/2009 at 13:34 David says:
Strewth. Nothing about that video appealed to me. The guitar might have been the best bit.
06/08/2009 at 13:50 Janos says:
This is really fun if you know how to play it. The quality is definitely above normal mod standarts.
06/08/2009 at 14:04 Dominic White says:
Well, Howard loathes this mod with unholy passion.
So I’ll be downloading it. I’m fairly sure he’s from Bizarro world, and hates everything good and fun, and his hate is usually a good inverse metric of quality.
06/08/2009 at 14:32 Howard says:
Dom, do you REALLY have nothing better to do than turn up here to troll for me? Should I be flattered or something? Just because I DARED to point out that ARMA2 has more than its share of bugs you have now embarked on a singularly boring and childish vendetta to hound me whenever I post.
Also. saying that a mod is a) a pain to get working and b) very unoriginal does not translate to “loathes this mod with unholy passion”. Get a bloody grip…
06/08/2009 at 14:35 Jim Rossignol says:
Now, now. Howard can a bit grumpy, but there’s no need to be mean.
No more flamishness, please.
06/08/2009 at 14:39 Krondonian says:
I got this a while ago, but the lack of decent servers/people on them prevented me from playing. All the cool weapons have to be unlocked too, which is annoying.
I had no idea about that Zombie Master style controlling the undead, nor the singleplayer. Time to try it again, I think.
06/08/2009 at 14:48 Richard Beer says:
This looks simultaneously hilarious and er… well dated would be a nice way of putting it. I couldn’t help but be reminded of Duke Nukem 3D in the way all the models move and the collisions are detected, even though all the sprites in that were in 2D.
06/08/2009 at 14:51 Richard Beer says:
Actually, maybe it’s Serious Sam I’m thinking of, although that’s still waay back.
06/08/2009 at 15:22 Comment system, what comment system? says:
I knew I bought UT3 for a reason!
06/08/2009 at 15:26 The Innocent says:
It looks alright, though I don’t know if I’ll be trying it. The gunplay only looks so-so, but perhaps the wailing guitars distracted me. I’m curious about the parts talking about controlling the monsters, and it looks like punching a zombie turns them into a gooey pinata — both good things. Ultimately, however, I just don’t want to reinstall the joyless UT3 on my smallish hard drive.
I’m also wondering about the plight of the survivors. Are they in a zombie-fighting mood and looking for a tussle, or are they trying to survive? Seems to me they deserve what they have coming hanging around creepy towns like that. Who wouldn’t expect zombies in such a place?
06/08/2009 at 15:36 Chris says:
Well, I don’t want to pick on guys making a mod in their spare time, etc. But I can’t get over the god-awful animation in that video. I have no interest in playing if the game looks like it takes place in uncanny valley.
06/08/2009 at 15:39 Psychopomp says:
There’s an obsession with limited ammo, Howard, because if you can just blow everything away *there’s no suspense.*
The controls weren’t much worse than Resi 4/5, and those just took a few seconds of getting used to, then it was third nature.
06/08/2009 at 16:10 ChampionHyena says:
ARGH THIS FREE SOFTWARE IS SUCH A PAIN IN THE BUTT
HOW CAN THEY EXPECT TO MAKE ANY SALES WITH THIS
AMATEURS
06/08/2009 at 17:01 Howard says:
@ChampionHyena
So because something is free it is automatically exempt from any form of criticism? Interesting…
@PsychoPomp
If a game designer can only add suspense and tension to their game by artificially limiting the amount of ammunition available then they are clearly far to empty headed to be making games to begin with. The exact same thing can be said for artificially making the controls unintuitive like the utterly vile Resident Evil games you mention. Design like that shows both an utter and complete lack of talent and something tantamount to outright contempt for the player.
06/08/2009 at 17:08 Dominic White says:
If you hate Resident Evil 4, you have no soul. This is a scientific fact, proved in laborotory conditions by trained scienticians.
And y’know what? Howard, you are wrong. You are very wrong. There are fewer things scarier in a game than having a dozen undead monsters shambling at you, and knowing that even if you don’t miss anything, you can only bring down ten of them.
06/08/2009 at 17:13 Scundoo says:
[blockquote]Now I’m betting there are few people here who will sign for a moratorium on zombie games in 2010[/blockquote]
Even more so than ww2 fps games.
06/08/2009 at 17:16 Howard says:
Artificial restraints are the antithesis of game design. Idiocy like Resident Evil 4′s ludicrous restrictions on movement are unforgivable.
And no, I’m not wrong, you just disagree with me. Others, you will be *astonished* to learn, agree with me Dom.
A game should not be a test of how well I can function with my hands tied and the dev’s behind RE4/5 have freely admitted that is what made them implement that control scheme. (which is why they got roasted by everyone when number 5 was released).
06/08/2009 at 17:22 jalf says:
Many popular board games are *all* artiifical restraints. What is the logical justification for the movement allowed for various Chess pieces? Is it unforgivable that they are given such arbitrary restrictions? Surely it’s completely unrealistic that the queen can move so much faster than the king, isn’t it? And that she can only move in straight lines. Arbitrary restraints are what *makes* a game. Some games just dress them up better than others, to make the restraints *seem* meaningful.
06/08/2009 at 17:23 jalf says:
By the way, I should probably add that I can see your point, Howard. I just wouldn’t say that “Artificial restraints are the antithesis of game design.”
Also that I’ve never played RE4. :p
06/08/2009 at 17:24 Howard says:
@jalf
You make a valid point if what you are trying to prove is that board games should never be compared to modern computer games as they have precisely not one thing to do with each other.
Also confusing arbitrary restrictions with rules shows you have failed to grasp the core of the argument to begin with.
06/08/2009 at 17:25 Howard says:
Gah, you posted again before I replied! lol
I’m confused then. You see my point but you disagree with it you mean?
06/08/2009 at 17:28 Janos says:
There is alot of tension to be found in the coop mode here, when you have to run for the stones to save your teammates.
Some animations really look aweful, but the weapons are rock solid and fun to use.
06/08/2009 at 17:37 Dominic White says:
I’d like to ask what the hell an ‘Aribtrary restriction’ is. Aren’t the rules of any given game ALL arbitrary restrictions? How much health you have, how much ammo you can carry, what directions you can move in, how high you can jump, etc etc. I’ve seen tons of folks complaining about stuff like this over the years, but the only unifying thread of logic seems to be that ‘Arbitrary restriction’ is crypto-nerdspeak for ‘I don’t like it’.
What would a non-arbitrary restriction be, then?
06/08/2009 at 17:39 Psychopomp says:
@Howard
Don’t play Penumbra.
You would hate Penumbra.
06/08/2009 at 17:44 Chaz says:
For a mod that looks pretty bloody good, going by that video. It’s got a lot more features than many full priced games I could mention. Lots of cool looking weapons, several different game modes, and it looks like you can play as all the monsters too.
Compared to most other mods that is pretty outstanding, especially considering the vast majority never get passed weapon render stage. If I had a pound for every time I’ve looked at a bunch of screen shots for a new mod, that have consisted entirely of pictures of an unskinned combat knife and a Beretta, I’d be fucking rich by now.
06/08/2009 at 17:47 jalf says:
@Dominic: That was pretty much my point as well. Arbitrary restrictions are what define a game.
I suspect Howard’s complaint is that computer games should dress these restrictions up to *seem* meaningful. Which is a valid point. When you play Civilization, there are a lot of restrictions on unit strength, movement or the techs you need to build them. Ultimately, they’re all arbitrary, and chosen simply based on what makes for the most fun game. But they’re dressed up so they seem meaningful to the player. Of *course* a tank can move further than an archer. Of course a musketman can defeat an axeman.
The rules, the *gameplay* are fundamentally arbitrary. But a video game can and should try to assign some kind of intuitive meaning to them. I just don’t think that’s what “game design” is, and failing to do so is not “the antithesis of game design”.
06/08/2009 at 17:50 Psychopomp says:
I played through Resi 4 sixteen times.
That’s all I’m gonna say.
06/08/2009 at 17:51 Dominic White says:
Well, if that’s the case, then I can’t think of anything more intuitive in a zombie horror scenario than dwindling ammo supplies in the face of a growing undead horde. It’s what every movie has taught me will happen. You WILL run out of bullets, and then you’ll have to run and will likely do something dumb and get cornered and die.
It sounds like he’s just objecting to the concept of having tight ammo reserves, which is daft.
06/08/2009 at 17:53 Kieron Gillen says:
Dominic: Arbitrary is within the context of any game, as I actually talked about within the boardgame series. Much depends on actual *purpose*. In a realistic looking game, for it not to act realistically, you trip a load of people up. If you’re moving horsey and pawns, less so.
KG
06/08/2009 at 17:58 PleasingFungus says:
Mmm, delicious split hairs! They’re my favourite.
Anyway, not sure if anyone else noticed the ‘commander’ mode. Which seemed to be a mode in which you tried to spawn monsters right behind the players, so as to infuriate them.
Certainly seems like that couldn’t go wrong! (I.e.: Be no fun.)
06/08/2009 at 18:00 Howard says:
@Kieron
Thank you! Knew you’d get my point (whether or not you agreed)
@PsychoPomp
I did play Penumbra: all of them. They were pretty good. Very piss poor to wards the end and the combat system in the first one was very poorly implemented but not bad all the same.
I can also well believe that you played RE4 so many times. Those who liked it LOVED it. Those who didn’t fucking LOATHED it. I bought it for the GC back at launch and took it back the same day, barely able to restrain myself from destroying the skinny little nerd behind the counter at Game who stared in slack-jawed wonder when I told him his Holy Grail of gaming was worthless crap.
Opinions vary but there is a reason that no other game ever has copied RE4′s control mech, I’m just sayin’…
06/08/2009 at 18:12 Weylund says:
I’m not sure what, precisely, makes a limitation on ammunition seem arbitrary. And tension, in combat, has often been practically *defined*, especially in the last century or so when ammunition supply became far more vital due to suppression and therefore was directly involved in not getting shot, by the knowledge that when your last round leaves the pipe you’re in for a world of hurt.
Now, the big question: what would you suggest as an alternative? If you’re going to bang on about lack of imagination, please pony up.
The poor controls, yes, that’s just not right, and it’s one of the reasons I stopped playing Resident Evil 4.
06/08/2009 at 18:17 Weylund says:
As an aside, and apropos of practically nothing, a quote from Patrick Warburton: “Maybe if I push, instead of pull, this chicken will no longer be stuck in my shirt.”
Go Sesame Street.
06/08/2009 at 18:27 Tei says:
If is the same guy, he has been tryiing to make “Haunted” for a loooooooong time. There are Quake1 versions of it. If anything, him seems motivated to make what he have in mind, If the technology at hand let him do it. Looking forward for “Hanuted 3″ for Rage engine :-)
06/08/2009 at 18:39 Howard says:
I think it is possible to make a good zombie survival shooter, I just don’t think it happens 90% of the time. RE suffers from idiotic controls, L4D suffers, IMHO, from very poorly implemented weapons (no “careful aiming” mode like most FPSs, unsatisfactory “feeling” weapons in general) and this mod just suffers from amateur (I know, I know) design. The levels feel too, well, fake I guess and having the ammo pop magically out of corpses is just a ludicrous decision.
The only zombie game so far to get even close to getting it right is, bizarrely, the free MP add-on for CoD:WaW. The setting, soldiers stranded in a ramshackle house that, by playing carefully, can be opened up as the game progresses giving you more defence options, really worked for me and the weapon dynamics, while not “realistic”, were at least solid and satisfying. Also I still believe that first-person is the only way to go with survival horror (Silent Hill being the exception, but then it is not “survival” horror) as the claustrophobic effect of that view adds massively to the immersion.
As to ammo, having a limit is not in and off itself idiotic (ammo is a physical thing with an actual, physical limit after all) but it should be possible, through skill and (if relevant) teamwork, to obtain more.
That better Weylund?
06/08/2009 at 18:56 The Innocent says:
Man, I’m split on this. I would agree with Howard that the movement restrictions in RE4 feel extremely arbitrary — I mean, if I’m aiming at something I can move to the side (or even backwards!) without lowering my weapon, and I’m no professional zombie/infected-slaying agent. That doesn’t make the game bad by any means, but in my opinion it did decrease my enjoyment of the experience. Penumbra, on the other hand, may have had a hackneyed control system, but it felt quite real within the context because you played as a scared wimpy dude rather than a fighter, so the restrictions weren’t arbitrary, but logical (though perhaps poorly implemented).
Now, I also disagree with one of Howard’s points, as it seems that a restriction on ammunition would make sense within the context of a zombie onslaught; but that really wasn’t his only problem with the game. However, I agree that to build suspense purely through a lack of ammunition is sort of weak. Some examples of different uses of ammo: back when I played System Shock 2, I was terribly annoyed at the lack of ammo early on, but it still made sense that I would only have three bullets when I was in the non-military section of the ship. Left 4 Dead gave players far too much ammo in my opinion, so there was never really too much danger of running out, and that struck me as an arbitrary overabundance of a resource. On the flipside, the best suspenseful games don’t rely on ammo limits, but employ them well: I liked being able to choose my ammunition amount in STALKER by stocking up before a big trek, shooting a lot at first and then slowly running out of good caliber ammo around Yantar, before finally having to drag myself back to the Bar with only a few clips left for my pistol. That was suspenseful throughout, and it was suspense that was heightened (not created) by ammo limits.
06/08/2009 at 18:57 Weylund says:
Yep. Thanks. I share many of your thoughts, just wanted to see why you were thinking that way.
So – what survival horror movies (e.g. Dog Soldiers, Aliens, Romero’s Dead series) or books (e.g. The Terror), to you, capture the experience you’re looking for in these games?
06/08/2009 at 19:05 Howard says:
Alien or Aliens. Plain and simple. The horror and fear should be about what’s chasing you and the fact that they are terrifying, not that, for reasons that escape logic, you decided to wander into zombie/alien/rabid bunny territory with one broken shotgun and 24 shells.
Also the MP on the original AVP did a cracking job.
06/08/2009 at 19:05 Psychopomp says:
@Howard
Did you ever play the Xbox edition of Fatal Frame 2? It pretty much solidifies that first person is just scarier.
06/08/2009 at 19:06 Howard says:
Damn. Pressed enter too soon. Was also going to say that 28 Days Later, while I did not completely like the film, did a good job on the survival horror front. Its setting just made sense and the monsters were suitably scary.
06/08/2009 at 19:10 Howard says:
@Psychopomp
No, must of missed that one. Is it available on any other platform?
06/08/2009 at 19:45 Psychopomp says:
It’s on the PS2, however, the “special edition” with the first person mode is only available on the original Xbox.
It’s backwards compatible, though.
06/08/2009 at 19:50 Weylund says:
@Howard: Cheers, I agree. Would, in your opinion, a faithful simulation of being trapped behind enemy lines (say, like Mogadishu) constitute survival horror? Can the terror of the situation take the place of a terror of what’s chasing you? Or does what’s chasing you have some larger metaphorical meaning – say, a death by angry mob as opposed to a stalking monster that is the stuff of nightmares?
I personally prefer kick-ass monsters, just wanted to ask. Pity that they’re so hard to invent. There have been scant few that really capture my imagination.
As for the Haunted… I don’t own UT3, but I’ve always been willing to buy an engine to get a mod. :) Sounds like opinions are mixed, though.
06/08/2009 at 19:53 Howard says:
@Weylund
No, I could buy that. Survival horror is all about the psychology of the situation, as long as the fear is palpable it would still qualify.
06/08/2009 at 20:03 Psychopomp says:
I think it should be known, there’s nothing I fear more in all of gaming, than a good scout.
Oh how I loathe them.
06/08/2009 at 20:12 Matiiou says:
A lot of improvements have been realized between the first and the second release. This mod is clarely one of the best for UTIII and will be certainly improved again for the next phase of the MSUC.
By The Way, the 2.5 will be released in the next weeks with a new map and special attacks for the monsters : http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-haunted/news/the-haunted-msu-wins-and-v25-announcement
06/08/2009 at 20:22 Dominic White says:
Yeah, something that nobody should forget here is that Make Something Unreal is an ongoing, multi-phase contest. There’s a dozen or so mods that are jostling for position, improving with each submission phase in order to get that big prize.
Planetstorm, for instance, was a mess near the start of the contest, but showed promise. Now it’s developing into something very impressive. It’s most likely going to win, and (unless something snaps) end up as a standalone title, ala Red Orchestra.
06/08/2009 at 20:49 Jambe says:
As Howard pointed out, the “getting it running” bit of the equation is a bit of a pain. I’m personally enjoying the setting and characters, though. They’re cliched and generic, perhaps, but you can pretty much say that of any zombie shooter. I’m not having any trouble with the controls and I quite enjoy the weapon & ammo system (as Psychopomp pointed out, too much ammo = too little suspense).
I would agree that the camera could use a bit of polish — third person shootery stuff tends to be hard to get right, I think, at least compared to 1st. The whole mod could use a bit of polish, truth be told… but considering this is free, and was done by enthusiasts in what I assume was their free time… I’m pretty satisfied. I’m not going to play it a whole helluva lot, but it’s a fun time killer.
@l1ddl3monkey: the “Black Edition” is UT3 with some expansion stuff included (it’s the only version for sale online anymore, I believe).
06/08/2009 at 21:58 Lord_Mordja says:
Man, I played this mod before it was cool. -_-
Great fun.
06/08/2009 at 22:10 Chaz says:
I’m really surprised no has done a proper Dawn of the Dead (the original Romero version) style co-op mod yet. Keep it slim say four players, struggling with limited ammo and scavenging food and aid until they can access the gun store. After which they can use the newly found fire power to try and close off the mall to invaders. Once thats done create a few crises for the group to overcome. I would make the gameplay style in the vain of a realistic tactical shooter, none of this fast and furious run and gun and gibbage stuff of games like L4D etc.
Keep the zombies slow and shambling. Yeah they might be easy to run past, but once you make a mistake and get yourself into a situation, that’s when the fear and panic should kick in. Especially if you make the consequences severe enough, as in the films, you get bit and its all over. Surely the big fear of zombies is, that although they are slow and mostly mindless, they never sleep and they don’t stop, and just one bite will slowly turn you into one of them. By contrast in L4D you can be whaled on by hoards of fast moving zombies, only to to pop on a med kit moments later to make everything fine again, and it removes all tension and fear from the game.
06/08/2009 at 22:42 Wedge says:
Well, looks better that UT3. Maybe I can find something fun to do with it now.
06/08/2009 at 23:00 SubEffect says:
Good Lord that is one ugly looking mod. I’m sure the textures and models are all awesome on a monster machine but the brown, the brown!! It’s like some norovirus horror ward of endless poop laundry!
Also with headbands.
06/08/2009 at 23:13 David says:
@Chaz Zombi, while not a co-op shooter, was a cracking good* take on Dawn of the Dead. http://www.mobygames.com/game/zombi
* If I recall correctly.
06/08/2009 at 23:57 Psychopomp says:
@Chaz
A roguelike, survival horror shooter would indeed make a mess in my pants.
07/08/2009 at 01:45 Cutman says:
So why aren’t we all playing this?
07/08/2009 at 03:44 We Fly Spitfires says:
Oooh, that looks sweet :)
07/08/2009 at 06:04 ScHlAuChi says:
@Jim Rossignol
Thanks for posting about our mod :)
The version in this trailer was created by 4 people (1 music guy, 1 Game/LD guy, 1Coder/Artist, 1 Lightning guy)
Alot of things people complain about here is already fixed in the upcoming version 2.5
07/08/2009 at 06:23 ScHlAuChi says:
@Howard
Im the game and leveldesigner of Haunted, i have several years of gameindustry experience as a designer. I will completely ignore your ridicilous comments about amateur design as there are a few points that are obvious:
a) You have not played it all and just make baseless assumptions like “lack of ammo” which isnt even the case
b) You absolutely fail to understand the requirements of this genre and what the target audience of this game wants
c) You clearly dont seem to understand the design reasons and differences behind 1st and 3rd person games
Luckily for us the professionals at EPIC decided that our designs were worth four 1st places – something that isnt accomplished by calling people amateurs on forums ;)
If anyone wants to critizise the game, go play it and then post comments on our moddb page or in our IRC channel :)
Have fun!
07/08/2009 at 07:46 Howard says:
@ScHlAuChi
Nice attitude. Receive any criticism, lash out out the person giving it. Of course I played your mod and simply writing off my opinion as bullshit because you don’t like it is just childish. Learn to roll with the punches, son.
There is a lack of ammo in the game, at least when compared to what I believe would be a reasonable amount. AS I have discussed above adding arbitrary, utterly non-realistic restrictions to a game ALWAYS smacks of lack of talent or at least lack of will to think outside of the norm. I mean, what on earth possessed you to think that having ammo boxes pop out of your mobs was a good idea. On no level at all does that make even a scrap of sense.
As to level design, sorry but I have to disagree again. Gone are the days when, while making DM or MP maps, it was just acceptable to stick a vast array of walkways, doorways and ramps together and be done with it. If you were making a map for classic Quake then it would fly, but the survival horror genre requires more realism and real-world design in its make-up.
As you say though, you have won an award for your game. Congratulations, sincerely. I’m sure you put a lot of hard work into it and I do not aim to detract from that effort (though after your snotty, tantrum of a post I am less inclined to be generous). The fact that the MSUC guys have seen to reward you for turning out something that looks very old graphically, feels very old in its design and lacks, as far as I can tell, any original features (especially, as has been pointed out, when you have been peddling this mod in one form or another for over a decade) makes me a little sad though. After previous winners have come up with wholly originally and utterly entertaining ideas like Air Buccaneers I just expect more from this competition.
07/08/2009 at 09:05 Dominic White says:
Howard… There are scales of wrongness. You’re off the scale here. You really are from bizarro world, I’m afraid.
07/08/2009 at 09:09 Howard says:
Yay, Captain troll has woken up and come to spout nonsense at me again. My day is never complete until Dom arrives to mock me for utterly disagreeing with everyone else, even though he fails to notice that once he stopped trolling in the thread, the vast majority of posters ACTUALLY AGREED WITH ME. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of a good flame-bait, eh Dom? =)
07/08/2009 at 09:20 Jim Rossignol says:
Howard, everyone, chill out plz. Take a break from getting cross. Ignoring people is often the best option.
07/08/2009 at 09:40 phuzz says:
The only addition I can make to this discussion is that the original RE game (and RE2) were bloody scary when I played them, and a lot of that was the restrictions placed on you, mostly the limited opportunities to save.
At the time it left me terrified and sweaty, knowing that at any moment I could walk round a corner, die, and end up having to re-play the last 45 minutes all over again.
Recently I picked up the remake of RE for the DS and the lack of saves just annoyed me.
So perhaps these arbitrary restrictions (and as others have pointed out, all games have restrictions) can work, but nowadays we expect new! and exciting! restrictions in our games.
(although a finite ammo supply is used in pretty much every game that has ammo)
07/08/2009 at 12:09 l1ddl3monkey says:
Having read all the arguing I’m going to have to play it now. I wonder how long Steam will need to download UT3? Probably a lot longer than I will like.
07/08/2009 at 14:50 Michael Hegemann says:
As project lead for the haunted i need to clear a few things up. The haunted has not been in development for over a decade, in this form it’s in full production for about 2 years.
It uses 100% custom content and is not based on UT3 or GOW, just on the engine version and rough framework.
Each form of critisim is being looked at, but blind bashing is ignored. We don’t try to justify things that people don’t like, the game is not finished and we improve it with every release.
Anway, give the tongue-in-cheek survival action that the haunted is a try if you own UT3. You’ll see that it is different than others in this genre. If this ain’t enough, you will find more originality in the battle mode. With infinite ammo ;)
07/08/2009 at 14:59 ScHlAuChi says:
@Howard
You are not critizising the game, you are critizising a genre for what it is, thats like complaining that James Bond movies are unrealistic.
When 2 out of the 3 weapons are empty ammo is dropped automatically. If that for whatever reason is not enough the player still has his melee and Charge-Kills.
As for the ammo boxes popping out of enemies – what made Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 two of the highest rated games do that? Maybe because its a mechanic that works?
Why do you think Haunted has arena type maps? Could it be that its simply impossible for 2 people to do what you expect? Capcom needed 4 years, over 200 people and had a huge budget. Also, whats the point of realism in a game where you fight Hell monsters?
Where are all these awesome original mods now?
They are all dead and almost no one plays them anymore!
So how many units did Air Buccaneer sell compared to the totally original Red Orchestra? Oh yeah zero!
Dont get me wrong, im all for innovation and quirky game ideas, but in this case if we ever want to sell this afterwards, we have to do what the target audience wants which you clearly is not ;)
07/08/2009 at 15:58 Miker says:
are there going to be RPS posts about The Ball? I’ve heard that it’s a great mod, even won moddb’s best single player mod award some time ago
07/08/2009 at 17:20 Psychopomp says:
@Howard
One of the problems here is that you’re expect a modicum of realism, in an arcade-y action game. For once, *stop thinking,* and just play.
07/08/2009 at 23:42 Howard says:
@ScHlAuChi
So now I’m not only allowed to criticise precious little you, but I am also forbidden from poking holes in a genre? Well shit, at least you are here to clear that up for me.
You cannot see the flaws in your pat project; that is understandable. It does not mean they are not there. Many genres are DOA and the type you have ascribed to is one of them. Break the mould: do something new. Go crazy and dare to live the dream that we as PC gamers hold dear.
But you wont because you are comfortable.
And yes, your mod has been in development for over a decade. Engine changes mean nothing
07/08/2009 at 23:43 Howard says:
@ Psychopomp
Stop thinking? Are you for real? You cannot possibly have posted that when sober, my friend…
08/08/2009 at 00:12 TCM says:
@Howard:
TBH, I saw nothing wrong with RE4′s controls, and RE5 only tightened that up. RE1-3 were control trainwrecks, though…
Also, as fas as survival horror goes…I LIKE most of the “arbitrary restrictions” you complain about. I like limited ammo, it makes me carefully consider whether I should fight an enemy or avoid them. I like the close over the shoulder camera with little freedom of movement, it leads to me actually having to look around, as opposed to just rotating and repositioning the camera like I would do in other games. I can’t say I care for limited movement or poor controls, but I also can’t say I noticed those qualities in RE4 or 5 (I doubt I will play this mod, mainly as I don’t own UT3, and have no intention of buying it)
08/08/2009 at 00:32 ScHlAuChi says:
@Howard
Huh? Where did you get that idea from – we never changed engine, this mod started last May on UT3. It never existed on any other engine before.
You can critizise a genre as much as you want, but guess what multiple genres are good for – to satisfy different audiences ;)
Its like critizising that Metallica doesnt sound like Mozart – and its clear that this type of critizism is illogical.
With that said, im out and let you guys have fun with Howard ;)
08/08/2009 at 20:30 Psychopomp says:
@Howard
No, I was completely sober. There’s such a thing as thinking too much.
In Devil May Cry, you break apart a chair, and find crystallized demons blood.
In most brawlers, enemies will drop *entire fucking chickens.*
In Burnout, for some reason, driving really close to other people magically fills your gas tank with NOS.
Realism is not what arcade-style games are going. They run off nothing more than
(This is aimed solely at the mosters dropping ammo, BTW. The rest is entirely your personal opinion, although calling the devs “talentless” is incredibly out of line.)
08/08/2009 at 20:30 Psychopomp says:
Oh dear, I fail at HTML apparently
12/08/2009 at 09:45 Melf_Himself says:
Howard: learn2gamedesign
Others: learn2notarguewithpeoplewhoblatantlyignorelogicalarguments