By Jim Rossignol on August 19th, 2009 at 11:37 am.
After our last rather cynical few comment thread chats about Dragon Age, a source from within EA (who will have to remain anonymous) got in touch to say that the cynics were wrong, and that the game really is the modern equivalent of the famed Baldur’s Gate games. It is, our source insists, one of the great RPGs. Do we believe them? I mean, it’s all within towing their company line, isn’t it? Well, despite some scepticism induced by terrible marketing, I do hold out that this is going to be a thoroughly enjoyable RPG. Bioware aren’t exactly short on talent, and this game has been years in the tweaking. That said, I’m kind of looking forward to both Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect 2 more, because they’re both looking bold and non-fantasy. But then again, the collector’s retail edition of Dragon Age comes with a cloth map (see below). And that kind of changes things… Terrible map-lust.
Anyway, GamesCom trailer below. It’s good. And Darkspawny.
Problems with the video? Let me know!
Cloth map!
19/08/2009 at 11:40 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
A cloth map is exactly the sort of thing I’ve missed from the old RPG bundles. And I’ve said so repeatedly, to everyone’s annoyance.
19/08/2009 at 11:44 Sly_Boots says:
There’s no getting away from the fact that a couple of the trailers have been hilariously misjudged, but a couple of the recent ones have got hopes up again by being quite good.
Bioware know what they are doing when it comes to RPGs, and this will no doubt be very good, even if it fails to redefine the genre. Unless it gets slated (which it won’t), then I’ll be buying it.
19/08/2009 at 11:45 Hentzau says:
Oh for crying out loud. It’s toe the line. TOE THE LINE. I see it misspelled all over the sodding internet but you guys are supposed to be writers.
19/08/2009 at 11:51 mpk says:
Did they actually throw in a gratuitous bikini shot in that trailer or am I just watching too much porn again?
Also, why was that man about to use a large cup as a hat.
19/08/2009 at 11:53 Tei says:
I choose to trust your source.
postdata:
I miss the days a group of adventures could get lost, and arrive a crossroad, and meet a old guy, ask such old guy about directions, and see how him change to a evil wizard, have a battle, and after the battle found a book, in such book learn a tale about a evil wizard, a princess and a keep. Search that keep and kill monstruosities, only to find tha the princess has been devoured by a dragon, kill that dragon and found a egg, …from the egg a gold dragon born,… and before is killed, your druid forbit it. So you save the dragon, and scort it to a draconica region, battling your wait, meething a dragonica shaman, that will cast a spell in the gold dragon, that will convert into the princess. You know, I miss RPG games that are like that.
19/08/2009 at 11:57 Andy`` says:
There once was yapping, and it was about choice. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/93979-Dragon-Age-Origins-and-Choice-2-0
The more recent stuff they’re putting out about the game may finally be getting me properly interested. Hmm.
Also, the great unverifiable source of Wikipedia says: “Sometimes this phrase is written “tow the line,” changing the meaning of the phrase from conformance with a rule to contribution to a cause or effort.”
Maybe its not misspelled. Maybe it doesn’t matter, though.
19/08/2009 at 11:58 Vandelay says:
I guess you can’t really judge marketing, whether it is good or bad, as a sign of the actual product. They were targeting a particular market with earlier trailers and they probably succeeded (was any of the gaming press positive about what they saw at E3? Even if none were positive, I could imagine most were not cynical in typical preview style.)
Seems like standard fantasy stuff, but very well presented. I’m with Jim in being more interested in Alpha Protocol (probably Mass Effect 2 as well, but when price drops,) although that comes more from me not being into the fantasy setting too much. If they have some good game play and interesting characters then I could be won over.
And what was with the random burst of Marilyn Manson at the end there. I like some of Manson’s stuff, but for advertising a fantasy RPG? Really? And coming after all that standard orchestral movie score.
19/08/2009 at 11:58 Lobotomist says:
Its almost impossible for Bioware to botch this.
It may or may not be the second best RPG ever produced. But top down, strategic party rpg + editor. With traditionally good Bioware storytelling.
I am positive it will be damn good. And i mean people will be playing it long after ME2 and AP start collecting dust
19/08/2009 at 12:01 Xercies says:
Hey thats a good trailer, but that music at the end I could really strangle something when that comes on. The other problem is is that the animation really looks shite when there speaking, moving and fighting. But my opinions have kind of gone a bit more up since I last saw it, readng some of the preview articles on IGN it does sound like a decent RPG.
So it might just be the marketing guys not knowing how to market this, since marketing a hardcore RPG is a no-no because no one likes that anymore.
Sometimes I hate the games industry now a days with its focus on action, action, action.
19/08/2009 at 12:01 simon says:
I was all excited when I saw that only 7 commenters had left their mark so far, but sadly Hentzau beat me to it. Congratulations sir, and to RPS, shame on you.
19/08/2009 at 12:02 Lars Westergren says:
My hopes for this game, which started very high, has just kept going down-down-down-down with every announcement and trailer.
The stuff they have revealed lately has at least not continued that trend…. may even have increased my hopes a little bit that this might be worth getting. But I’ll still definitely wait for the reviews before buying it, unlike Alpha Protocol.
19/08/2009 at 12:04 Ian says:
Interest rising again.
19/08/2009 at 12:14 pkt-zer0 says:
“the game really is the modern equivalent of the famed Baldur’s Gate games”
Generic and mediocre, then?
Also, WTF MARILYN MANSON
19/08/2009 at 12:24 Jim Rossignol says:
“Generic and mediocre, then?”
Or, more accurately, brilliantly crafted, seminal CRPGs.
19/08/2009 at 12:26 Derf says:
This trailer doesn’t really reveal anything about the game, so I can’t see why people are passing such judgement. It reveals the story which to me sounds refreshingly natural. No more “solve the mystery of the generic religious cult” or “collect the magic spoons” main quests please.
19/08/2009 at 12:27 Lugribossk says:
At least the ocean is on the right side of the map and not the left… If only the rest didn’t look like generic derivative fantasy.
19/08/2009 at 12:38 Psychopomp says:
@Derf
I would actually play a game of “collect the magic spoons.”
19/08/2009 at 12:42 Gorgeras says:
It was going so well until the guitar riffs at the end.
So they haven’t fired that marketing guy then?
19/08/2009 at 12:45 MrFake says:
Derf said it. Cutscene trailers just show us what we hope the game could be (awesome, naturally). Trailers of actual game footage, while boring as hell, would show us what we’d be doing for the majority of the time.
If the game plays like Baldur’s Gate, that’s nice, but “modern equivalent” is still just an empty marketing term.
19/08/2009 at 12:47 Jim Rossignol says:
I love magic spoons.
19/08/2009 at 12:48 Simon Jones says:
A better judged trailer, to be sure, but the voiceover with all its fantasy staples comes across as little more than “bla bla bla” to me…from the interface to the graphics to the storyline and setting, I still haven’t been shown anything new or interesting.
19/08/2009 at 12:53 toni says:
standards are very low nowadays (in the gameplay, not the technical presentation departement) so I expect it to garner high review scores. Bioware didn’t manage to write any good storyline or characters since BG and KOTOR (with KOTOR being the template of character re-use over their games), so I expect exactly more of the same from them. And always remember: if the game lacks features and depth, IT IS NOT TRUE !!! IT IS CALLED “streamlining” the interface or “getting rid of the NON-FUN stuff”. Fun stuff, like Cutscenes, Swearing and many blood on screen is spent hours on.
19/08/2009 at 13:05 Rinox says:
Like the trailer. As long as it doesn’t get massacred by the critics – which I’m sure it won’t – I’m pretty much a 100% certain that I’ll get it.
19/08/2009 at 13:11 Ansob. says:
Baldur’s Gate II is still the best PC game ever. Period. Anyone who disagrees is clearly some sort of insane person.
Anyway; am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the protagonist is yet again modelled on the “peasant boy saves the universe” trope? You’re the newest Grey Warden recruit, but somehow the hopes of the entire universe lay on your shoulders! I wish more games would give us veteran characters (cf. Geralt, or Shepard – who was a special forces veteran of ten years).
If you’re going to go for the peasant saviour again, at least do it the right way – it worked in Baldur’s Gate because you weren’t “the chosen one,” you were just another you-know-what and your only goal was to find out why your “father” was murdered (and then you became awesome, and you still only save a region or three).
19/08/2009 at 13:15 Psychopomp says:
@Ansob
Deus Ex is the best PC game ever.
So there.
19/08/2009 at 13:19 Andy says:
Did I hear Captain Janeway then?
19/08/2009 at 13:32 Mattthew Walton says:
Many years ago, I heard about Dragon Age and thought it would be wonderful, it was Bioware going back to what I loved them for back in the Baldur’s Gate days.
Then they started releasing trailers, and the excitement faded. What they’re showing me isn’t interesting, it isn’t compelling, it doesn’t have a shiny excitement factor anymore. I really hope that is just because their marketing sucks, and not because the game sucks. Mass Effect did very little for me, NWN2 was really pants so I’ve not had fun with a Bioware game since Knights of the Old Republic. A shame.
Maybe I should just be interested in The Old Republic, and pass the intervening time with Champions Online. Yes, that seems like a good plan.
19/08/2009 at 13:33 Tunips says:
@ansob
I would like to play a game where the newest grey lensman recruit has hopes of the entire universe on his shoulders.
19/08/2009 at 13:36 Fenchurch says:
You say there’s a trailer there, but I see only an ocean of brown and grey, oily with a sheen of dull crimson, upon which indifferent navies of ciphers float, flyblown and tawdry, shouting only to break the silence.
19/08/2009 at 13:46 Lars Westergren says:
@Mattthew
NWN2 was by Obsidian, not Bioware. I liked it. But I agree with you that Bioware games since KOTOR1 have been pretty “meh”.
19/08/2009 at 13:46 Azazel says:
Of course, for all this talk of Baldur’s Gate 2, we all really know that the best battle of the series was the one at the end of Tales of the Sword Coast. Hard as nails, but SO satisfying when I inevitably triumphed.
Some satisfyingly tough battles in DA:O plz.
19/08/2009 at 13:52 megaman says:
No trailer to see for me, just a grey box. It did work with other GT links before, though. JFI.
19/08/2009 at 14:24 KilgoreTrout XL says:
My only problem with that video is the lack of gameplay.
Shadows of Amn is my personal favorite game of all time. If they make something that’s somewhat similar to that I’ll probably enjoy the hell out of it.
19/08/2009 at 14:27 Rosti says:
I know it’s a fault in my character, but the inclusion of a cloth map significantly increases my interest. Is it also a functioning tea towel, though?
19/08/2009 at 14:29 tapanister says:
A lot of people are too quick to jump on the hatewagon for Dragon Age. Then again, it’s probably the people who think Baldur’s Gate II wasnt’ the greatest
CRPGRPG of all time, therefore their opinion doesn’t really matter.19/08/2009 at 14:33 Rosti says:
Hmm – actually, is there any indication that the collector’s super-deluxe version will be available in good ol’ Blighty? Play are stocking the vanilla version with all the retailer-exclusive bells and whistles as it’s US counterparts but no mention of the map edition.
: /
19/08/2009 at 14:36 Rosti says:
False alarm – at the very least, GAME are carrying it.
(Many apologies for the comment spam, mind)
19/08/2009 at 14:37 Ratatoskz says:
I was actually able to play Dragon Age at GenCon this year, and at least the first hour of gameplay (of which I watched two different beginnings and played a third) is very good, with nice deep dialogue, and enjoyable tactical combat. The combat animations also don’t look as bad as the gameplay videos have made them seem. After getting my hands on the game, I can’t wait for it to come out.
19/08/2009 at 15:08 Wulf says:
I’m probably goinig to be vilified for this, but…
I would’ve been delighted about this had they just tossed the map into the everyday version, that it has to go into a “collector’s edition” is depressing. Were they interested in making it like RPGs of old where cloth maps were offered with a number of games, they could have foregone the necessity of a collector’s edition entirely.
As it is, this seems like an exercise in “a fool and their money are soon parted”, because it doesn’t feel like they’re trying to recapture the spirit of old RPGs, it feels like they’re trying to cash-in on the nostalgia of old RPGs. And I got the vibe of that from thhe game itself too when they started likening it to Baldur’s Gate (which it most certainly is not).
Not to mention that the cloth map looks more like map-printed-on-large-hankie, did anyone else notice that the print doesn’t even go up to the edges, and that there’s no frame around the map at all? Looks pretty poor, all in all…
If the map was better and they’d thrown it in the box as just a freebie rather than a collector’s edition thing, then I’d be much more excited about this. As it is, it feels like a cheap attempt to cash in on my memories. But Bioware are going to have to try harder than that if they want this old crusty roleplaying fan interested in their game.
And just to make sure that I’m not wearing rose-tinted specs about this, I actually still have my Ultima VII box, the one with the nifty Fellowship medallion and an incredible cloth map. Ultima VII … now there was a game, and one we may never see the better of when it comes to clever, scheduled AI and a detailed World.
Unfortunately I couldn’t find a picture of the Ultima VII cloth map, but here’s the Ultima V one, which I also liked:
http://www.flow.omnivangelist.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/u5.jpg
That’s how good a cloth map can be.
Say what you like about me or my opinions, but my interest in this game is not piqued by the inclusion of a poor quality map into a collector’s edition. If it had been a good quality cloth map in a standard retail edition, then they would’ve caught my attention… but no.
Roll on Risen and Alpha Protocol.
One last thing though…
@Lobotomist
“[...] good Bioware storytelling.”
I think that depends on how one defines the terminology of ‘good writing’. I’d prefer to segregate it into two concepts; ‘solid writing’ and ‘imaginative writing’.
The first Bioware excels at, the latter is something they’ve never been known for, as every aspect of any of their plots couldn’t fairly be considered as anything but predictable. The most imaginative and compelling writing to come out of Baldur’s Gate was actually thanks to the mods of one Wes Weimer, and likewise, the most intriguing plots to emerge from the Neverwinter Nights or Knights of the Old Republic franchises were brought to us by Obsidian Entertainment.
Another example of this is Mass Effect, the writing is solid but there’s nothing really surprising or emotionally jarring there, I never felt for even one of the characters, and I was able to judge the outline of the story arc by playing only a little bit into the game. It was technically proficient, it was well written on a studious level, but it was also plodding and dull. It was no Star Control II, that’s for sure.
Perhaps I’ve been corrupted by Japanese RPGs, but I do enjoy a truly compelling plot, rather than just the predictable old CRPG tosh, and some developers have been delivering that. I feel that Mask of the Betrayer delivered an emotional crescendo which hasn’t since been matched in an RPG. And even the badly translated characters from the Gothic Universe were more compelling, if less technically proficient.
What one might get from a Bioware game is prose, skilful, perhaps even a bit clever, and to some degrees it might even be perfect, but I’ll be yawning my way through it and longing for something that makes me care like Mask or Planescape did.
Bioware has always been technically proficient, capable of stunning design, competent execution and delivery, and they’re good at exemplifying what can be done with a computer RPG on the technical side of things… but they never did anything truly incredible. They’re kind of like the Id of RPGs, or talking in Sci-Fi terms, they’re Babylon 5 compared to Planescape and Mask’s Farscape.
Random Footnote: An RPG set in the Farscape Universe would be incredible.
19/08/2009 at 15:34 Sinnerman says:
Used to be that you could point out how dull and plodding Baldur’s Gate was without being skinned alive. The sequel was a big improvement but the last expansion was awful. Bloody thing is a religion these days though.
It’s still okay to mercilessly poke fun at the good JRPGs that Bioware copy though so at least we have that.
19/08/2009 at 15:38 JKjoker says:
whats with the Baldur’s gate 2 extremists in this tread ? BG2 had an interesting story, *some* interesting characters (that you probably never used because they sucked in combat) and it had a lot to do but it had just as many flaws like slow story development or not so good combat (including the “D&D sucks after lvl 10-15″ syndrome)
it was a good game, yeah, but “the best EVAH! and if you disagree you suck!” ? no way
every “good” thing about bg2 has been done better, TOEE had MUCH better combat, Torment ruled the story and character development, and so on.
i suggest you open your mind to other things a little
about Bioware, i know a lot of ppl like KOTOR, but it had really crappy gameplay, i think the only thing i liked about it was being able to play a jedi rpg, nwn1 (the one bioware did make) was a huuuuge turd that had the incredible luck of being saved by modders, JE was meh, ME was better but still very close to meh, so i wouldnt expect much from them
as for Dragon Age, every gameplay video ive seen sucked worse than the previous one so im not too excited about it
19/08/2009 at 15:46 foghorn says:
Every 3D BioWare game had fucked up unit control and combat.
19/08/2009 at 15:54 jalf says:
BG and BG2 bored me to tears. And yes, “generic and mediocre” seems to describe it pretty well, I think.
There, I said it.
@JKJoker: Eh, I thought Kotor’s gameplay was pretty good. Same with ME. But in general, I don’t have too high expectations from Bioware either. Their *good* games are few and far between.
Their storytelling skills in particular are highly overrated. It’s rare that they’re able to give the player a reason to *care*.
19/08/2009 at 16:07 mesmertron says:
I think Bioware need to stop deluding themselves that ‘we’ve found the formula we like’ is a path to good game writing. However, despite the same plot being recycled across KotOR, JE, and ME, I can honestly say that ME provided me with some moral delimas that made me question my own values and judgements in a way no other game in the past ten years managed. (Torment and the original Fallouts come close).
*********Mild spoilers***********
The two bits that stand out the most are little side-missions on the Citadel. One involves a preaching hannar, and the other involves an expecting mother and gene therapies.
Now, the Hannar side-mission usually didn’t provoke a reaction from me, but on a recent play through I noticed something I’d glossed over before. C-Sec charge a fee to keep the rif-raf out of the preaching business. Suddenly I went into full on des carte mode – i may disagree with what the stupid Jelly says, but I’ll defend to the death his right to say it! I was quite surprised at that sudden reversal in my usual reactions.
The other side-mission hit home in a different way. I recently became a father this year, and suddenly that whole debate took on a new meaning for me. Gone was my old attitude of “well, play the percentages,” now all I could think was “don’t you dare do anything that could hurt that child before he’s born.”
I went and had a little cuddle with my son after that, and reflected on life, the universe, and video games.
So, sure, DA:O’s had some horrible marketing. Baldur’s Gate had its weak points. Bioware keep using the same damn plot over and over…
but they managed to score two emotional reactions out of a very jaded, cynical gamer. I saw Star Control II invoked in an earlier commet – that’s a game that quite litterally changed my whole outlook on life, but I was a young lad at the time. The law says I can be tried as an adult now, so why’s a game jerking tears out of me?
Have I become John Walker, or maybe, just maybe it means Bioware can surprise us despite the cliches.
19/08/2009 at 16:11 Estel says:
I just looked at the collector’s edition on GAME, and I don’t think that it’s the same edition that’s being released in America.
The description is for a plastic box (rather than the US tin one), and strangely omits the cloth map :(
19/08/2009 at 16:19 JKjoker says:
@jalf: i liked only two things in mass effect, the renegade dialogue options made the shitty story kind of fun and the on foot combat (which the game tried to make me hate with the shittiest friendly AI ever that got killed 5 seconds into the fight, the enemy AI that would just charge at you and the repetitive areas)
everything else blows, story (the use of the “why do they want to destroy the universe every x number of years ? your puny mind couldnt possibly understand it” excuse should be a crime punished by impalement), the unskippable cutscenes right before a cheap battle, the mako (ugh!), the lifeless, empty and repetitive worlds, the 3 fighting areas that were repeated again and again and again (come on, at least randomize the placement of the space crates), the main mission “corridor” worlds, etc
19/08/2009 at 16:28 KilgoreTrout XL says:
I think every Ultima from IV on had a cloth map, and they were excellent, almost as excellent as the Ultima 3 loading screen:
Dude fights pirates
Dude fights whirlwind
Dude fights dragon
Dude fights the pirates again because your C-128 is fucking slow.
But it was set to beautiful music, and I loved it. And I can’t believe the BGII hate. It’s your call, but holy shit that was an epic game.
19/08/2009 at 16:31 Xercies says:
Why is the map not coming in the normal game box, god damn them I want maps in whatever version I buy. Bethesda does this well, and old RPGs did this well. I don’t want to spend more money just for the map.
19/08/2009 at 16:43 plant42 says:
Nah, this trailer is still fluff. It’s all just cutscenes still, they don’t want to show actual boring gameplay and ‘You are the chosen one! Fetch me another pint of grog!’ Larpy dialogue trees.
‘My god, the future of the world hangs in the balance, an evil race of orcish creatures are threatening mankind, and only by banding together humans, elves and dwarves will we have enough armies to fight them?’
Yeah thanks.
‘Guys! Has anyone seen my copy of Return of the King? The writers can’t get anything done without it!’
19/08/2009 at 16:54 DarkNoghri says:
I have to ask, how does this trailer fit with Hawaii Five 0?
Answer: Not very. If you start the theme at the point where the trailer goes from darkspawny to greywardeny, it kinda fits, but then ends 30 seconds too soon.
19/08/2009 at 17:07 Jazmeister says:
CLOTH MAP!
19/08/2009 at 17:29 Tyrone Slothrop says:
@Psychopomp
Deus Ex? I’ve got your back on this one old bean, stay the course.
@JKjoker
Clearly they want to destroy the galaxy every x years because in spite of possessing galaxy-obliterating technology they fear that a grizzled marine with a lack of hair and any real insight or intelligence will assemble a team of the meanest shotgun-wielding stock characters this side of Gears of War. They’re going to take their galaxy-obliterating technology down a freakin’ peg and they’re gonna do it with {insert one of three carefully delineated options} whether some faceless bureaucrat in Washington likes it or not… or possibly with cautious approval.
19/08/2009 at 17:45 Psychopomp says:
@Noghri
Oh dear lord, I completely forgot about that.
19/08/2009 at 17:55 Ozzie says:
I’m just playing Baldur’s Gate for the first time and love it.
Sure, setting and story are nothing fancy, but solid and interesting. The game world looks absolutely amazing, every location is in some way unique, which explains why the game is so huge for its time.
But Baldur’s Gate is more than just good. You meet some very unique characters on the way who have all various back stories. Many of them are more or less slightly deranged and the game has its share of funny moments. So, it’s not unimaginative just because it uses D&D and is set in the Forgotten Realms.
Sure, Arcanum and Planescape may be more imaginative, but BG is definitely the most fun. The combat system is the first that I found to be enjoyable in a RPG. I’m just disappointed that it takes so friggin’ long to level up. Ugh!
While I love BG the Dragon Age trailer leaves me cold. I don’t see the connection.
19/08/2009 at 17:58 Roger says:
Me? I’m putting my money where my mouth is – this will be the first BioWare game that I’ve never owned on release. The first user ‘DLC’ is deliberately designed to diminish my rights of sale. As much as I might want to play it, I’ll be waiting until it shows up in GameStop’s used games section before I put any money down. The only possible reason for inclusion is to prevent people from wanting to own used copies.
19/08/2009 at 18:13 Vinraith says:
I’ve still got real hope for this one, I just hope they don’t saddle it with some limited install nonsense. In a year where it seems like every upcoming adventure game is set in a modern of futuristic setting, oddly, it seems the fantasy RPG is the one that stands out. As long as I can actually own them, though, I’ll probably buy all of them. I’m a sucker for a good RPG.
19/08/2009 at 18:23 Wooly says:
@1:40 It’s Captain Kathryn Janeway! :D
19/08/2009 at 18:36 Jeremy says:
@JKjoker
You’re pretty much doing the same thing that you’re complaining that others are doing, and that’s simply having an opinion. I’m one of those people that loved BG2, and would probably mark it as the best CRPG I have ever played, in terms of story, character, battles, etc. It may not have been the best in each area (although at the time it probably was), but for me, the entire package is what makes it the best, the way it all meshed together.
19/08/2009 at 19:12 Jesrad says:
This looks like standard Bioware fare: a clichéd melodrama for teenage megalomaniacs.
19/08/2009 at 19:13 ExplosiveCoot says:
I’ll echo Matthew’s comments and say that I too started out very excited over Dragon Age and have become markedly less so with each new trailer and this one was no exception. Everything about this seems very generic, and I’m getting very close from downgrading DA from a “day one” purchase to a “wait till it hits $20 on Steam” title.
How about releasing an actual gameplay trailer?
19/08/2009 at 20:25 Cutman says:
That is some wonderful side boob.
19/08/2009 at 20:49 Po0py says:
Cloth. Map.
RAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWRRRRRRRR!!!!
19/08/2009 at 20:52 Adventurous Putty says:
Good storytelling and good story are two different things. Wake me up when Bioware decides to write something unique and edgy.
OK, a bit harsh — I rather liked where Mass Effect went on a few missions, especially the one where you get to talk someone out of suicide if you’re of a certain background. But, yeah, if only all that great tech and cinematography could be used to tell a story that feels less Hollywood and more, I dunno, intriguing.
Still looking forward to it, though.
19/08/2009 at 21:28 Seth says:
Video not working. On FF3 with latest adblock. Gives me an endless wheel-spin deal.
Also experienced the same problem with the Battlefield:BC2 video.
19/08/2009 at 21:29 Kadayi says:
@mpk
“Did they actually throw in a gratuitous bikini shot in that trailer or am I just watching too much porn again?”
No I think you’re right they did, however even the promise of virtual boobs isn’t enough to make me interested in what looks to be a Fantasy RPG built on 20 years of clichéd ideas.
I like Bioware, and part of me really wants to like this (I’m practically moist with anticipation of ME2), but its looks so utterly banal I just can’t muster the enthusiasm. Some seriously positive reviews are going to be required to make this enter my purchasing plans I’m afraid. With fantasy RPGs I’d say the Witcher changed things, but it doesn’t look like the team behind Dragon age got the memo unfortunately based on what I’ve seen so far….
19/08/2009 at 22:17 BinhoF says:
I agree with most people here: Generic Green-Grey-Brown fantasy-hollywood cliche’s.
I hate save the world quests, the scale in them is always off. I can never wholly get into them, as I never feel there is a real world out there to save.
All RPG’s have this issue, but BioWare ones especially so (Bethesda a close second). The world’s they build always feel like those old Hollywood Western sets: A Facade, with nothing behind it. Just think about where the crew members of the Ebon Hawk or the Normandy go when nature calls (Or where does the food come from in Cyrodill?) …Nothing they build feels actually functional, it all feels like set dressing.
What I’d like to see is a Firefly like RPG. Where it’s just you and your crew, trying to survive and having adventures. Strong characters, and fun stories.
19/08/2009 at 22:37 Kadayi says:
@BinhoF
Good point about the save the world quests. With ME at least it builds up to that rather than it being there from the off.
Personally I think its high time someone out there purchased the rights to The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance, and made a game out of them.
1) they are a fantastic read (go purchase now)
2) although they are fantasy they aren’t encumbered by traditional fantasy cliché’s. The denizens that populate the books are extremely varied, as are the environments.
3) Vance paints a rich universe of possibilities, from the humorous to the utterly terrifying, without reference to traditional staples.
19/08/2009 at 23:04 Jeremy says:
I would agree Putty, generally speaking they don’t come up with the most original stuff, but they have a way of making me enjoy it most of the time. I will also admit, that writing in games still has a long way to go. Most games pull off really good Hallmark, B-movie dialogue.
Games right now seem to be reconciling addictive and enjoyable mechanics with stories and characters that people actually care about. A few games have done it, and it’s been really successful, but there is a disadvantage because they don’t have the luxury of real actors to lend credibility to bad dialogue (Christopher Walken can turn any line into gold). So, I think we’re getting there, and hopefully these times are the equivalent of the movie industry’s 80s.
19/08/2009 at 23:25 malkav11 says:
@Anson:
The article I read about the game is some months old, so I -guess- it could be out of date, but my impression was that the game is in part subtitled Origins because depending on the character you create you come from very different backgrounds and origin points. Prophesied peasant boy is almost certainly just one of the options – the one I remember reading about was a dwarven noble who is manipulated into killing his brother and exiled from his realm.
19/08/2009 at 23:47 Petrushka says:
@Ozzie: “Sure, setting and story are nothing fancy, but solid and interesting. The game world looks absolutely amazing, every location is in some way unique, …”
Your description sounds more like BG1 than BG2. I’ve come to feel that the real excellence of the BG series lies not in its storytelling (BG1′s storytelling is like that of a PNP campaign that every now and then develops new enemies to replace one that the party has defeated, and BG2′s storyline is a bit bland) nor its gameplay (though the NWN series never came close to being as good), but its characterisation.
Characterisation was the thing that really stuck out about BG1 (the delightful zaniness of Xzar, the psychopathy of Montaron, the bossiness of Jaheira, etc.) and it’s the one thing that Bioware got absolutely right in BG2 (creating a superb pair of villains along the way).
So, I’ll go out on a limb and state that in my opinion the best CRPG game ever is BG1 played using Tutu and with the BG1NPC mod. BG1NPC takes the core strength of the game — the characters — and ramps it up to stellar heights.
Dragon Age? Well, the game they’re hyping is one that revolves around an epic plot on a huge scale, with the fate of civilisation at stake. That kind of plot is a florin a dozen. Plot is nothing. Interest is everything. BG did it with its characters; the Elder Scrolls does it with its landscape; Deus Ex and The Witcher did it with their choices.
@KilgoreTrout XL: Ultima III had a cloth map too (here it is).
20/08/2009 at 00:31 Adventurous Putty says:
Plot is nothing. Interest is everything. BG did it with its characters; the Elder Scrolls does it with its landscape; Deus Ex and The Witcher did it with their choices.
This. This is pretty much it.
I’m practically wet over Alpha Protocol, it has limitless potential.
20/08/2009 at 00:48 hitnrun says:
Plot is nothing. Interest is everything. BG did it with its characters; the Elder Scrolls does it with its landscape; Deus Ex and The Witcher did it with their choices.
Repeated again for truth.
That’s not to say plot can’t be “the thing.” There are a number of good games with a gripping plot. It just seems unlikely that a game where the Fate of the Medieval Known World rests upon You, The Hero stopping the rise of The Great Demonic Evil — in exactly those terms, I’m not being snarky — is going to ride its plot to the brim of our hearts.
As for the lionizing of BG2, I’d agree that it’s a little overrated, but part of that is the appreciation on a technical level for what they accomplished in 2000. The characters were less interesting and there were fewer of them, but they improved the combat system and the artistic presentation greatly. When people remember BG, I think they remember some hybrid of BG1 and BG2, with maybe some other Infinity Engine memories from Icewind Dale or Planescape thrown in.
20/08/2009 at 00:50 Meatloaf says:
I finally figured out what this game reminds me of, thematically – the Kingdom under Fire games.
20/08/2009 at 00:55 Rinox says:
Ok, I’m very drunk (damn you, Duvel!), but BG2 being boring and generic? Wtf? Maybe if you played it years after it was released, yeah. Like it or not, but the BG series sparked the return of the true fantasy RPG and hasn’t been toppled since.
Arx Fatalis is a close call. But other than that? I loved Arcanum for what it was, but it was no BG2, no sir.
20/08/2009 at 00:56 Rinox says:
Oh and Planescape obviously was awesome – but it was part of the infinity engine revival too.
20/08/2009 at 01:06 Caiman says:
And yes, it’s definitely “toe” the line, despite what Wikipedia might say. Any explanation for “tow” is simply trying to provide weak justification for the incorrect spelling (you don’t “tow” a line in any sense of the word anyway, you tow what the line is attached to).
What’s that? Dragon Age? Oh yes, well of course it could be good but I just get this unsettling feeling that we’re all going to be horribly disappointed. I hope not, but none of the gameplay or the cutscenes or I’ve seen so far give me any kind of goosebumps. And they need to.
20/08/2009 at 03:11 Thiefsie says:
I was enjoying that until the bikini shot that reminded me of the woefully bad sex trailer thing they released a while back. That firmly entrenched this game into the back of my head again, let me know when it comes out if it’s any good (which of RPS no doubt will do)
20/08/2009 at 04:50 Psychopomp says:
“k, I’m very drunk (damn you, Duvel!), but BG2 being boring and generic? Wtf? Maybe if you played it years after it was released”
I didn’t play the BG games until 2005
20/08/2009 at 05:38 flootz says:
This is obviously the negative I-Hate-Bioware-For-All-Kinds-Of-Subjective-Reasons thread. I’m wondering where is the positive Bioware’s Games-All-Have-Metacritics-Scores-Higher-Than-Other-Companies-Can-Only-Dream-Of-Getting thread so I can post about how I can’t wait to be able to play 100 hours for the same price I paid to finish Wolfenstein in a lousy 10 hours. And how I can’t wait to see if there will be a character in Dragon Age that will top Minsc, or HK-47, or Wrex and make me fall off my chair laughing while playing?
20/08/2009 at 06:44 merc says:
All the trailers I’ve seen have make it look like generic fantasy pulp fiction right from the very start, which is a bit dull and hard to get excited about. But even generic fantasy storylines can be good if the details of the storytelling and characters are good, but those sorts of things are very difficult to see in a 2 minute trailer. So I’m still cautiously optimistic it will turn out well despite what the trailers make it look like.
20/08/2009 at 09:08 mesmertron says:
Has anyone here read the tie-in novel yet? A friend of mine who was a bit put-off by the earlier trailers got the book and that completely revitalized his interest.
Then again, if you have to rely on your tie-in novels to sell the plot, story, and setting for you, maybe you shouldn’t be making plot, story, and setting focused games…?
20/08/2009 at 10:00 kadayi says:
@flootz
I don’t think anyones hating on Bioware, more that everyones a bit underwhelmed by what looks to be another slab of generic Fantasy.
20/08/2009 at 14:49 KilgoreTrout XL says:
@Petrushka
So it did! I can’t believe I forgot. Thanks. That brings back very fond memories of me and my brother sitting at the family computer 20 years or so ago.
20/08/2009 at 19:24 David says:
The awful trailers they’ve been releasing for this made me apathetic towards Dragon Age, after playing this for about an hour at Gen Con I am excited for the first time.
It took me about half of that hour to realize that you can zoom out from the default behind the shoulder camera to a standard RTS top-down mode, at which point the game becomes Baldur’s Gate 2, but with less D&D and a much better interface.
They’ve ditched the dull ’8 spells per day’ Vancian magic system that D&D used through 3rd edition, and replaced it with a more standard MP gauge. This means that a magic user no longer has to rely on weapons in combat except for those times when they really need to use one of their spells. They’re useful all the time.
In fact, every class has useful abilities, and their own unique role to play. I’d imagine you could play through the whole game playing just as the main character (at least on easy, the game’s pretty hard), and still have fun. But the game truly shines when you hit the space bar and set up orders. You can give orders, have your mage set traps at the feet of incoming enemies while the fighter protects the mage and the thief sneaks up behind them. It feels just like Baldur’s Gate (or even better, Freedom Force), except with a better interface and no Vancian magic.
The dialogue and story of the bit I played (the origin story for the Human Mage) was kind of disappointing, but only because it didn’t quite live up to the high standards of Mass Effect. It’s at roughly the same level of quality Bioware is known for (for better or worse), but it’s clear the focus is less cinematic than Mass Effect and more on the classic CRPG template of going into dungeons to kill monsters for loot. I’d even say Bioware is listening too much to their fans; I’d certainly prefer something other than a standard fantasy hero story.
Despite the horrible marketing, Dragon Age is very much a traditional CRPG. If you’re looking for a new generation of Baldur’s Gate, you’re going to be pleased. If you want innovation, Dragon Age isn’t going to break the mold; it’s just going to be yet another good fantasy CRPG. I’m sure I’ll have fun playing it for a good 40 hours.
21/08/2009 at 12:56 kadayi says:
@David
The main problem with D&D regarding the Vancian approach to spells (that you could only only learn X number a day) is that to convey fairness and balance they rendered magic fairly mundane. In Vances dying earth novels when someone gets hit with Prismatic spray, there’s no saving throw, there’s no 2D6 damage, instead there’s a pile of ash. The spells were devastatingly powerful, and their power had little to do with the prowess of the wielder save in how and when they used them.