By Kieron Gillen on August 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm.
Sundays are for coming back from Poland full of admiration for their ability to throw down, getting disgusted at the idiocy of British Rail Staff, seeing how your Beta Ray Bill pages in issue 3 turned out and compiling a post of all the fine reading from across the week while trying to avoid linking to some piece of pop music you rediscovered in the last week.
- Average gamer is fat, depressed and 35. Yeah, a lot of people exploded at this one. I suspect we all will too.
- Comrade Ste sighed nostalgically as he realised it was 10 years since the wonder of Old Man Murray’s Drakan Theme week. It’s not actually 10 years yet, but such pedantry is only for the noxious. i.e. Walker.
- Actually, talking about OMM, Jim talked to Chet Faliszek over at Offworld about why AI constructs are depressing. Because they take over the world and enslave us, you fool. Much more about L4D2 too, natch.
- Rammykins published a piece he contributed to a defunct mag where he got the Dave Taurus, Rick Porter and myself to chip in on games prices affecting reviews. I’m right. Everyone else is wrong. Especially Taurus. Again.
- Society Eye had a good week, especially if indie-interviews is your thing. Firstly they talk to Interactive Fiction-ite, indie-chap and comics-creator Jim Munroe. And then they talk to Zombiecow’s Dan Marshall about – oooh – you guess.
- I missed this when it was posted, but reading Zorg’s take on his time working for the corporate dollar after selling out UK Resistance (and then getting it back) was interesting.
- Meanwhile, people are still talking about Left 4 Dead. The Slow Down takes apart the characters in the game, analysing the original looks in comparison to the final ones, and thinks about what that means for L4D2.
- Bit-tech do a hefty piece on the problems of porting games. The problem is: it’s hard.
- And if it is too tricky, Brandon Sheffield compiles some nasty-dirty-coding-cheats for Gamasutra. They’re the programming equivalent of “drop in a nob gag” in games journalism, I suspect.
- A splash of Academia: Towards A Theory Of Domestic Gaming.
- Adventure Classic Gaming talk to Tale of Tales about – well – them.
- Crytek’s Cevat Yerli talks to Gamasutra about the future of graphics.
- On Bladerunner and the future.
- Scientists modeling zombie attacks. The question being, did they consider the possibility of everyone backing into a closet and melee attacking?
- I say we defeat them with high-speed-robot arms.
- A quick pod-cast recommendation. Geek Syndicate did an interview with English TV Presenter and geek-figurehead Jonathan Ross. As usual, Ross is most interesting when talking about what he’s most interested in. That is, geeking out spectacularly. Mainly on comics, but the splash of videogames – he likes R-Type and is a Warcraft/Warhammer-widow thanks to Ex-games-journo wife, now-screenwriter Jane Goldman – it’s fun stuff. Get here.
- Something that’ll be of interest to any artists in the house. It’s Disney’s Carson Van Osten’s comic-creation-guide-kit-thing.
- I don’t think I mentioned a couple of weeks back when Marvel announced my first ongoing for them, S.W.O.R.D. Well this week they followed that with the announcement that I’ll be taking over on Thor from JMS. Crikey.
- Saint Etienne’s How We Used To Live. Magical. Give it to the middle section to disagree. Rediscovered thanks to Pitchfork marching through their singles of the 00s this week. Best of all, someone’s turned all the tracks on Spotify into a playlist, which is an agreeable walk through the 00s.
Failed.
23/08/2009 at 17:28 Mac says:
Nice list
23/08/2009 at 17:39 l1ddl3monkey says:
Newsflash: gaming addictive to people with addictive personality types. The same ones who tend to be overweight (fatty foods are addictive) and obsessed with escapism (hence the gaming). The gaming is a symptom of the mindset, not vice versa. Duh.
23/08/2009 at 17:40 Dave says:
As the study was conducted, the average gamer over 19 years old and living in the Pacific Northwest, is 35 years old and depressed. Big surprise?
23/08/2009 at 17:45 anotherman7 says:
Correlation means causation, of course. And Mortal Kombat made me kill my parents.
23/08/2009 at 17:49 radomaj says:
But I am fat, depressed and 17. Remember that the stats don’y represent you, just the avarage (so we probably have some obese, bipolar 70 year olds.
23/08/2009 at 17:51 Riotpoll says:
No point reading past the 2nd paragraph in that fat depressed and 35 article, very poor survey technique (as is the case with post of these “studies”). And it’s only about US gamers, so everyone else is not fat, depressed or 35, hurrrah.
23/08/2009 at 18:02 noom says:
I’d also postulate that the average person is fat, depressed and 35.
Hmmmmm…
23/08/2009 at 18:05 RyePunk says:
Of course the study neglects to mention the gamers who simply play games while starving themselves. Digestion wastes time after all. Thereby putting them in the malnourished and depressed camp.
23/08/2009 at 18:08 nakke says:
“And it’s only about US gamers, so everyone else is not fat, depressed or 35, hurrrah.”
..more like the average AMERICAN is 35 (well, median is 36.6 years), fat and depressed, gamer or not. :P
23/08/2009 at 18:09 LewieP says:
I’m not 35!
23/08/2009 at 18:13 unclebulgaria says:
Hey! I’m 28.
23/08/2009 at 18:15 Bigfoot_King says:
loving that robot hand
23/08/2009 at 18:18 Pace says:
Drakan Theme week! Sounds exciting. If only, the, um, link, um, ahem, worked…
23/08/2009 at 18:24 Dante says:
“The average American gamer is overweight, 35 and depressed”
Does that sentence not also work if you remove the word ‘gamer’?
23/08/2009 at 18:27 mihor_fego says:
Wow! Congrats Kieron! I’ve just read the collected hardbacks from Thor v.3 (yesterday, actually!) and was surprised by how JMS has made such an interesting story out of who used to be my least favorite Marvel Superhero. I first got into comics mid-to-late 80′s and comparing Claremont’s X-Men to series like The Avengers or The Fantastic Four couldn’t help much in liking heroes such as Thor. Of course, with the X-series becoming utter crap in early 90′s, I left Marvel behind for more interesting stuff, like what Vertigo was publishing at the time. My only recent contact with Marvel was through a friend that remained loyal throughout the years, handing me a copy of the Loki graphic novel. I’m quite surprised at how good writers can reinvent 50 year-old heroes for a wider public.
I’m still saddened that there doesn’t seem to be total freedom in breaking down some stereotypes, as Miller did with Batman, but the future looks a lot brighter for Marvel. The Punisher: Max series was the boldest move ever for the publisher, graphic novels such as Silver Surfer: Requiem reminded me of European comics you’d expect to see in Heavy Metal, and now one of the RPS Fab Four writing Thor!
(I also have to go buy all the other comics you’ve written now…)
23/08/2009 at 18:34 CitizenParker says:
+1 for the broken link on Drakan Theme week. Sounds awful exciting though. I still re-read their Rune review at least once a year.
23/08/2009 at 18:37 MacBeth says:
Loved the Dirty Coding Tricks article, some lovely hacking done there.
23/08/2009 at 18:43 l1ddl3monkey says:
The Bibliostructures piece on Blade Runner and was great, very well thought through and has left me thinking after I finished reading it (primarily I’m thinking I should read the Bridge Trilogy again).
Also: I am 35, but not American.
Does that mean I am 1/3 a stereotype, or not in contention for the stereotype at all?
23/08/2009 at 18:44 Kieron Gillen says:
OMM link: Fixed. Thanks!
KG
23/08/2009 at 19:02 Vinraith says:
Others have said it but it bears repeating: I suspect the average American is fat, despressed, and 35. I think most of us have a pretty firm grip on how little gaming really has to do with that, too.
23/08/2009 at 19:07 Mil says:
Sigh. OMM was so great.
23/08/2009 at 19:15 Leifland says:
Mmm, Saint Etienne, the opening of Foxbase Alpha must be the best intro ever. By the way, I´m almost 35 and rather depressed, but not fat.
23/08/2009 at 19:16 invisiblejesus says:
Congrats on the Thor gig, Kieron; I read about it on one comic site or another earlier this week and it stopped me from dropping Thor once JMS is off the book. OK, the price drop back to $3 helped, too. Checking out S.W.O.R.D., as well.
23/08/2009 at 19:16 Psychopomp says:
I suspect the average fat person is depressed, really. Depression leads to weight gain, and vice versa, if I’m not mistaken.
23/08/2009 at 19:26 Krondonian says:
”If zombies actually existed, an attack by them would lead to the collapse of civilisation unless dealt with quickly and aggressively, scientists say.”
I read that a couple of days ago on the scrolling headlines while a sombre reporter talked about the Afghan elections. It was very odd.
23/08/2009 at 19:29 Nate says:
I just suspect they got the causality backwards. I’m depressed because I could never find a source of magic resistance, and so bit a chickatrice in Gehennom while polymorphed.
23/08/2009 at 19:34 BrokenSymmetry says:
That “Dirty Coding Tricks” article was fantastic.
23/08/2009 at 19:55 We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog says:
That gamer quote was absolutely hilarious. Thing is, I can’t help but feel that it’s probably true :D
23/08/2009 at 20:14 Anarki says:
I’ve alwys found that UKResistance blog pretty fascinating. I once spent an entire afternoon reading through the whole history from like the first post, good stuff! Dunno what happened with that Shiny thing, I’m sure I saw the woman that ran it on BBC reviewing games once, but I guess that wasn’t the big break they hoped for.
23/08/2009 at 20:20 jalf says:
Jeez at the price vs review score thing:
Seems like you could extend that logic to every part of the review. “I don’t have a massive amount of sympathy for people who think the game sucks. If you don’t like it, don’t buy the game. And so every game should be scored 10/10″
And the dirty coding thing was cute. I really loved the last story. :D
23/08/2009 at 20:28 Gassalasca says:
The Bladerunner one is cool. Cheers, Kieron.
Btw, I am neither 35, nor fat and depressed. Must be because I’m not an American. :|
23/08/2009 at 20:35 Mad Doc MacRae says:
Indeed, I’ve bookmarked the coding tricks article, I hope they make a sequel. There are more nifty hacks in the comments section so don’t stop with just the article.
The Blade Runner/end of paper article is depressing. I like books. But not on screens.
23/08/2009 at 20:48 The Innocent says:
I’m American, and I’m none of those descriptors. I’m 22, average healthy weight (not average American weight), and rather happy. But sure, I know plenty of gamers who are overweight; about as many gamers as I know who are malnourished and underweight.
23/08/2009 at 20:49 Cooper says:
Long term St. Etienne fan here…
Also, I love a bit of Blade Runner think…
23/08/2009 at 21:06 John Smith says:
News flash:
Average American is fat and depressed, and has little hope for future.
23/08/2009 at 21:13 Xercies says:
I really hate reading on screen(oops I’m saying this on a website blog sorry) I like reading it on paper. So when paper goes, i will be mourning its loss.
When I heard the news you were doing Thor my mouth dropped, I really didn’t expect that. No offence but i was expecting someone big to do it like *shudder* Mark Millar but yeah hope you do wel. Shame its only for 6 issues though. And I’ll try out your other series as well. But I will never try Phenogram i’m afraid…just don’t like music that much.
Also gaming proce, theres been a few recently that have been wanting a review on proce. Like trine and Stalin Versus Martians. The latter especially. And I do think price should be included in reviews, like Kieron said its a buyers guide so price should be on the list. Don’t like that asshole who says people shouldn’t complain about Rock Band price, get off your high horse and live with us soemtime just because you bloody get your games for free. Really hate people like that..elitist pricks.
23/08/2009 at 21:15 Xercies says:
Also that study…well I’m depressed and a bit fat..unfortunatly Im no Aerican. But i don’t think its the games thats doing that, I think its the depressing world we live in where we have no hope that the human race will ever change its warmongering ways, and where the news shows horrible images and shows how depressing the world is.
Maybe Just Maybe…Games are a little bit of escapism from this and that everything else is causing the depression.
23/08/2009 at 21:38 Aversim says:
Hey, at least I’m not fat. Or American.
23/08/2009 at 21:44 Wednesday says:
Wait, Kieron, you mean to say that you’re taking over writing Thor, from the legendary JMS?!
I wish I was you.
23/08/2009 at 21:47 radomaj says:
What was Kieron doing in Poland, anyways?
23/08/2009 at 22:06 Gassalasca says:
Shootin’ Nazis.
Khm, sorry, don’t know where that came from.
23/08/2009 at 22:10 Kieron Gillen says:
Radomaj: A friend of my lady’s wedding.
And thanks everyone.
KG
23/08/2009 at 22:25 army of none says:
Yay for sunday papers!
23/08/2009 at 22:35 Toby says:
Please lets have a new Blade Runner game (aren’t the rights for that lost in copyright hell after Westwood imploded..?). I loved the clicky original, but last time I tried to play it again it certainly felt quite dated… shit, I’m going to have to find that again. An FPS Blade Runner detective story would make me excited in an unmanly way. I guess Deus Ex 3 is the closest thing coming, but by hell it had better be more successful than the second one. I’ll never forget your glowing review of that one KG- didn’t you say it was better than the first in your opinion? Oohhh… Methinks I cannot agree.
23/08/2009 at 22:37 Muzman says:
If the average is Fat, Depressed and 35 and you are only Fat, Depressed and 27 it just means you must try harder.
(don’t you love the related stories. Serious Gaming Social Illness Trend Says Study. Now here’s the latest shit for you to buy in your futile attempt to fill your fat, miserable lives.)
I was actually going to link to a story about the weird stuff that shows up in the DSM revisions, like guilt and shyness, and wonder if gaming might soon get an entry. But I can’t find it.
23/08/2009 at 22:38 pilouuuu says:
I’m 32. Maybe I’m not a gamer…
23/08/2009 at 22:55 Alex Hayter says:
Totally agree with your POV in the Ram Raider article, Keiron. I’m of the frame of mind that any good game review is like a one-sided conversation with a mate – they’re bound to mention whether they regret/savor paying $x.xx for it. For example, Portal would have been a bad buy if it cost me $60, in my opinion.
On a zombies note, I wrote a silly article about how the current craze over zombie entertainment is related to the recession. http://societyeye.com/?p=409
23/08/2009 at 22:59 Alex Hayter says:
I meant “Kieron.” Of course, I was just testing you. Well done.
23/08/2009 at 23:23 Mad Doc MacRae says:
Amusing little read on zombies there Alex. I read an analysis further back that tried to relate the popularity of zombie movies and vampire movies to the occurrence of a Democratic or Republican administration (respectively). The zombies were supposed to represent a fear of shambling communist rabble, while the vamps are bloodsucking capitalists. I didn’t find the argument very compelling and I didn’t bother breaking down the number of vampire and zombie movies per administration to actually see if there’s a trend. My scatterbrained sense of time also leaves me relatively unable to judge when the zombie craze started relative the recession.
And where does Twilight fit in? :P
23/08/2009 at 23:35 Jimbo says:
Interesting reading, but fwiw I’m with the guys that think price shouldn’t be a factor in the ‘score’ of a review.
If it’s cheap enough or expensive enough to be worth mentioning, then by all means bring it up in the text – but I want (at least) the ‘score’ to give me an indication of quality rather than value. I feel like the only person in a position to make a value judgement is the consumer themself – maybe I found it cheaper or maybe I have more money than I know what to do with etc.
It’s solely an opinion on quality that I want from a reviewer – I guess it comes down to knowing your specific audience, but when I read a review I’m asking “Is this worth my time?” rather than “Is this worth my money?”. Tell me the former and I can figure out the latter for myself.
23/08/2009 at 23:42 jalf says:
So why are you reading the review at all? What is 7/10 if not a value judgment? ;)
23/08/2009 at 23:42 vagabond says:
I can’t seem to find the research paper on the AJPM site,
but did anybody actually read the news article, or are we all just leaping into “defend our hobby” mode?
There are some interesting findings there, even if the causal conclusions drawn in the article about games being bad for you are spurious at best.
Firstly, the finding is not “gamers are 35, fat and depresssed”.
Male gamers are more overweight than non-gamers, so it doesn’t really matter if Americans are all 300 lbs to start with, the gamers are all 350.
That they’re 35 and use the internet more might be “well duh” facts to us. They weren’t the primary focus of the study, but hey, if that’s what you’ve found the facts to be, why not include them and turn them into something other than anecdotal evidence.
What I think is the most interesting finding is that they don’t say all gamers are more depressed than average. That is the province of female gamers.
That is definitely something worth exploring further.
Is it a result of gaming being seen as “for boys” that meant that only a certain type of girl took it up, and they were broken when they got here?
Or were they okay, until the never-ending parade of female characters with lara croft-esque proportions destroyed their self esteem like fashion magazines did for the control group?
I’m sure the reality is too complex to be one or the other, and other factors will be involved, but if I were a game designer, I’d be kind of keen to know if the things we were putting in our games were contributing to the poor mental health of our audience.
24/08/2009 at 00:17 Lu-Tze says:
According to my statistics taken over the last 1000 years, the average person who doesn’t play video games is dead. It’s purely in the interests of survival that I play.
24/08/2009 at 00:25 Vinraith says:
Speaking as a scientist I’m more than a little appalled at the total lack of rigor, and the willingness to demonize games in the press, of the people who published this study. Based on their own comments, it’s hard to avoid the perception of a clear bias. I can only imagine how that survey was worded. What we do know, even from this poorly constructed article, is that their sample space makes the headline completely absurd. This: “survey data from 552 adults in the Seattle-Tacoma area. The subjects ranged in age from 19 to 90″ is not a valid sample for drawing any of the conclusions that article draws.
24/08/2009 at 00:43 Antsy says:
Haha! I’m slightly above average! Or is it below….
24/08/2009 at 00:54 The_B says:
Aside: That may be the best Spotify playlist ever posted on Sunday Papers Kieron. I am loving it like DJ Pied Piper and his Summertime Crew.
24/08/2009 at 00:55 SteveHatesYou says:
Taking pricing into account on a game’s review score makes little sense when price is so constantly fluctuating. It’s not unusual nowadays to pick up a game that’s less than a year old for a $20 – $40 discount. Or to buy it used for even less.
When I’m browsing Metacritic to see if a discounted game is worth picking up, the only reviews and scores available to me are going to be the ones that were published at the time of the time of its release. If those scores have been docked due to the initial price, then that’s not going to be much help to me.
Just rate the game based on its quality. Consumers are perfectly capable of doing the price evaluation themselves.
24/08/2009 at 01:19 KP says:
That first news item is unscientific and pointless. To be expected from MSNBC.
24/08/2009 at 01:24 Mad Doc MacRae says:
@SteveHatesYou
If you’re just browsing Metacritic there’s nothing reviewers can actually do for you anyway.
24/08/2009 at 01:42 Sam says:
Hey lovelies, Sam from America here. It’s my birthday today and I’d love more than anything to get an RSS feed from you folks that isn’t truncated. I’ll still click your ads, I promise.
I’m serious.
24/08/2009 at 02:00 Oak says:
By any chance, Sam, are you 35, overweight, and depressed?
24/08/2009 at 02:03 Oak says:
By any chance, Sam, are 35, overweight, and depressed?
24/08/2009 at 02:05 Oak says:
Is there an echo in here? Specifically, one that removes words from sentences?
24/08/2009 at 03:04 Wulf says:
@Vinraith
I couldn’t agree with you more on this, not to mention that surveys and statistics rather than proper examination and study over time haven’t ever really counted as Scientific evidence for a reason.
That reason would be that the survey probably read something like this:
Name: …
Age: …
Weight: …
Height: …
Do you feel you suffer from depression?: …
How many hours a week do you use the Internet?: …
Do you ever engage yourself in any form of interactive entertainment (such as video games, on a computer, console, or via a hand-held device?): …
And that’s the problem with surveys and statistics, they’re very generalised, often very biased, and at the end of the day they pretty much only ever say what the person utilising them wants them to say, as there’s no form of information that can become more biased than statistics, especially statistics based on surveys written by those who’ll use said statistics.
The problem with this is that we could encounter this scenario: A person who’s going through some bad times in their life might think that they’re suffering with depression and answer yes to that, now if they’re over some predefined BMI limit, and if they happen to own a DS that they play on once a week, then suddenly they become a “depressed gamer”.
And there are many variations of this, and who knows what their definition of overweight is, even? And moreover, the article specified Internet usage as opposed to playing Internet-enabled games. But apparently a heightened level of Internet usage is a “gamer problem”. I’d disagree with this on an anecdotal level by noting I have a number of friends who live on the Internet but rarely (or never) play games.
And thus the twisting occurs, where statistics are painted in a certain way because they were asked in a vague enough way in the first place in order to be painted later on. And I’ve never really seen any statistics that don’t work this way. It’s a common trick right-wing politicians like to pull to try to show the opinion of the populace, and the lies are always evident and fairly obvious.
I’ll buy into that headline when they can back it up on a proper Scientific basis, until then it’s laughable and here’s hoping everyone will treat it as such. Of course, people are bloody gullible so that’s probably hoping for too much … but I do live in hope.
Quoth the sage (in this case, a British Prime Minister): “Lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
24/08/2009 at 04:21 NDA Repealed? Taking no chances. says:
I’d do that one better. I was born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, and can point out that most of us are fat and depressed.
We don’t get much sunlight, and when we do, it hates us. As for the fat, well, we’re Americans. Newsflash, milk, cookies and hamburgers isn’t the core of a healthy diet, and that’s probably the least processed food most of us ever touch.
24/08/2009 at 04:30 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
That comic strip artist’s kit is really quite helpful.
24/08/2009 at 06:20 Jayt says:
Enjoyed the interview with Chet
24/08/2009 at 07:10 Vinraith says:
Regarding that interview with Chet:
Chet may not want AI bots that take voice direction, but I sure as hell do. I’ve had any number of times playing L4D where I could only drum up 2 friends and didn’t feel like dealing with the hassle and chance of a random pickup. Even one of those god-awful bots, which can not be directed in any way (unforgivable in a modern game IMO) is more than adequate to destroy any plan you might hatch. Even rudimentary directability would help enormously, but voice direction (ala UT 2004) would be genuinely spectacular.
24/08/2009 at 07:34 Kommissar Nicko says:
Blade Runner article is fascinating. Have a lot of things to say about it, but I’m going to keep to myself.
24/08/2009 at 08:50 PC Monster says:
I’m 34, overweight (but doing something about it) and have never been cheerier, thanks. :)
(From the article) “a finding consistent with prior research pointing to the willingness of adult video-game enthusiasts to sacrifice real-world social activities to play video games.”
I would also argue with this statement: I feel we ‘sacrifice’ very little in pursuit of our lifestyle. Avoiding contact with our fellow humans for prolonged periods is, in my opinion, a choice most of us are perfectly happy to make, and one that comes with very few negative consequences.
24/08/2009 at 09:10 shiggz says:
30+ fat about 170pounds (fat for me i used to be very thin) and depressed most days. Gaming can be a great time kill and escape/adventure. Disappointing to me that most games are about pseudo-life accomplishments rather then interesting adventure and fun action. If at this point I’m not attracted to video game accomplishments, i doubt i ever will be.
24/08/2009 at 09:28 Mike says:
Unsure about that Fibreculture article. Seems a bit… weak?
24/08/2009 at 09:55 destroy.all.monsters says:
Wow, nice score KG on taking on Thor. Congrats.
24/08/2009 at 10:13 Sagan says:
The results of the study have two possible reasons: 1. Video games are likely to make you fat and depressed. 2. Fat and depressed people are more likely to play video games.
It might be a combination of both, but for me #2 is the dominant factor in explaining the findings. That being said, I think the study is valid. And I think that video games make some people fat. Not sure about depressed.
Also in the interview with Chet, Jim said that he wants a special edition of the HL2 games, where he can change the language of the game. You can actually do that already. You can right click on the game in Steam, and change the language. And then you have to change it again in the game. Unfortunately you can’t select a different subtitles language.
24/08/2009 at 10:32 Mike says:
Sagan – it’s also worth noting that their methodology in general was pretty weak. For starters, the interviews about five hundred people, all who lived in the city. Not exactly wide-ranging.
24/08/2009 at 11:01 DMJ says:
Reminds me of an old Burger King ad: It Just Tastes Better!*
*Based on a survey of 500 people**, 260 of whom preferred the Burger King burger.
**All of whom were randomly selected from people leaving a Burger King restaurant.
24/08/2009 at 11:05 Paul Moloney says:
I’m looking forward to a 4-page scene where Thor explains how the mouse-keyboard combo is much superior to a gamepad.
Congrats!
P.
24/08/2009 at 13:03 l1ddl3monkey says:
Oh; and thanks for St Etienne and the instant teleport back to doing my A Levels.
Apparently only love can break your heart…
24/08/2009 at 17:22 Lucas says:
I think we’re well past the time when a single review score is sufficient for games.
Pricing should always be evaluated separately. I would even suggest different buying price recommendations for different player groups: serious, casual, genre fans, budget conscious, etc. Whatever is appropriate to the title at hand.
The other side of reviews is that they tend to all drop at release time, or trickle out after that, and then cease. Hype is too strong a factor with front-loaded reviewing (remember GTA4?). We really should consider quality over time (which tends to increase with patching, support, etc), active player base (especially for multiplayer), community strength, modding, competing games, and so forth.
Kotaku is starting a recurring survey series that hopefully will show longer term feedback on games. There is definitely room for a serious post-release community feedback style of website (besides MMOs, which seem to have that covered).
I guess this also goes to highlight the gap between the “dump out a new rehash every year” style and “it’s great and we’ll support it indefinitely” studios. I know which I prefer.
24/08/2009 at 18:35 Jimbo says:
‘feel like the only person in a position to make a value judgement is the consumer themself’
So why are you reading the review at all? What is 7/10 if not a value judgment? ;)
The rest of my post ^^ addresses both of these points. ‘Value’ and ‘quality’ are not synonyms.
24/08/2009 at 20:38 FhnuZoag says:
Um, what? No form of information that can become more biased than statistics, really? They only ever say what the person utilising them wants to say?
I assure you, sir, that while statistics, like many things, can be misused, there do exist correct ways to do them. And with bad statistics, as long as people are open about them, there are plenty of ways to check and subject them to rigour. However the quote goes, the reality is that only with the numbers open to you (and hopefully the process being open as well), can you really get to the bottom of what’s going on. Usually, the presence of statistics does not indicate a lie, and contrarywise, the absence of numbers are what usually suggests that someone is hiding something.
I’d take my poll over your anecdote and armwaving and teary interview any day of the week. (Within a margin of error, anyway) For this case, I would not rush to judgement until the full paper is available – note that this is published and peer reviewed scientific research, not some random newspaper survey. Usually they are cleverer about these things. (E.g. burying the videogame question in some irrelevant ones, etc)
Disclosure: I study statistics.
24/08/2009 at 20:53 Alex says:
I condemn your comic comparison to the Culture, Kieron.
Everyone knows that Contact/SC could only operate from a post-scarcity society! Without the socialist utopia to back it, what possible way could it exist!?
24/08/2009 at 21:14 solipsistnation says:
Oh, is that what happened with Idiot Toys (now Extralast)? I’d wondered. I’m glad I won’t be missing out on any fascinating battery photos and holding.
24/08/2009 at 21:54 Joshua says:
And therein lies the problem. See, what would the internet, especially the gaming community of the internet, be without rash, mindless races to defend the Hobby?
By the time the article comes out, the internets will have forgotten about it and so will all the Adonises with their spectacular bodies, social lives, AND Call of Duty skillz. Or the internet scientists that know the one and only important rule of statistics, that correlation does not equal causation!!11
Ars Technica has already provided a post which outlines the fact that most of the reporting on this study was garbage and missed several key points, including the fact that the writers acknowledge the flaws – such as the geographic location and source of responses. They’re careful to caution against assuming too much with the data (which the media apparently ignored). And the quote at the end of the MSNBC article says that this study may warrant further research (read: larger survey, across a wider georgraphic area), not that this is the be-all end-all study on the fitness of gamers’ body and minds.
Kotaku is starting a recurring survey series that hopefully will show longer term feedback on games.
Yea, Kotaku is the place I look to for solid research and insightful analysis.
24/08/2009 at 21:59 Vinraith says:
Let’s hope further research on the subject is conducted by scientists more interested in objective results than media headlines. I’m inherently suspicious of anyone that goes to the press before their peer reviewed article reaches the eyes of their colleagues.
25/08/2009 at 11:02 Pod says:
“bummed”.
hehehe