By John Walker on September 3rd, 2009 at 8:59 am.
TF2 has recently suffered a plague of some of cheating. Rather than cheating to win matches, players have been cheating to gain in-game items, using “external idling applications”. The drops came at random, so people hung around on specifically designed servers until they’d collected what they were after. (I think.) Valve have announced this Will Not Do, and anyone who has accrued items this way will find they have vanished from their inventory. And this is the their gentle, generous response.
Erik Johnson explains on the TF2 blog:
“Due to us not having a policy in place prior to today, this time we’re only removing the items earned through cheating the system. Going forward, if we find users using external applications, we’ll remove all of their items.”
However, if you weren’t amongst the 4.5% of players who were so very, very naughty, you’ll find you’ve received a reward: a new hat. A halo.
Of course, because this is a Valve game this can only have been met by the community with utter, frothing fury. Groups like HealersAgainstHalos have been set up, refusing to heal anyone who wears one. Dozens and dozens of posts are appearing on the forum with people pronouncing Valve as the Earth’s greatest evil. Atheists are angry because it’s Christian propaganda. It is clearly the worst thing that any company has ever done to any person ever in the history of the UNIVERSE!
Or as many have suggested, those who cheated could receive a pair of horns.
03/09/2009 at 09:04 Mike says:
I had assumed the third link about atheists was a joke. O-ho-ho. But no.
03/09/2009 at 09:12 brulleks says:
“The members of this group refuse to heal anyone wearing a halo untill Valve apologises for punishing and villainising idlers with no prior warning.”
Well, I think we’ve identified at least some of the cheating f**tards right there, then.
What pisses me off is that their actions have a direct effect on the play experience of those on the same servers that want to play the game legitimately. If they just stuck to their own private servers or achievement servers I wouldn’t mind, but do these twits really think the rest of the TF2 community are going to have any sympathy for them?
I’m glad to see the developers are actually taking some appropriate measures. These cheats are lucky that Valve have a good sense of humour. As someone who doesn’t, my own measures would have been far less appropriate.
03/09/2009 at 09:12 Vinraith says:
This seems like the natural consequence of a broken drop system, but whatever makes them happy. I’m a little unsure why idling for drops is cheating but achievement servers weren’t, though.
And that response by “atheists” is just plain embarrassing. Why are some of my fellow non-believers so intent on being offended by anything and everything? It makes them look far too much like the right wing Christian zealots they decry.
03/09/2009 at 09:13 Blast Hardcheese says:
Wait, you get horns if you cheat?!
THAT’S WAY BETTER THAN THE HALO!
03/09/2009 at 09:14 Mike says:
I quite like this one, which sort of breaks the situation up into a kind of revolutionary rally speech. But in terms of the Prize For Metaphors, right, imagine a tootsie pop…
03/09/2009 at 09:15 merc says:
It’s all so goddamn stupid. Stupid hats, a densely stupid mechanic for handing them out, stupid people who can’t do without the stupid hats, stupid punishments for people who game the stupid system, stupid overreactions all round.
I still can’t help but blame valve for starting it by designing the whole stupid system. I mean honestly, who thought that was a good way to dole out hats?
03/09/2009 at 09:16 caged_devil says:
Christ (sorry Christians)! This is taking it all a bit too seriously isn’t it? Given the game is obviously designed in a light hearted, humourous style, this is some serious over-reaction. Valve are being quite nice though, it could have just bitchslapped them completely, as it’s now threatening, rather than just removing their ill-gotten gains.
On a side note, I really need to get back into TF2, damn my infernal PC and the need for Vista installs.
03/09/2009 at 09:18 Heliocentric says:
How many licks?
So, i’ve been given a halo for not having played in the last 6 months? Nice.
03/09/2009 at 09:19 brulleks says:
@Vinraith
See my post. Achievement servers do not affect the play experience of those on other servers, whereas idling does. I’ve only used them once – to get the scout weapons, as I rarely play as scout anyway- and actually found it to be a lot of fun. Like a TF2 playground, really, with everyone helping each other out with bizarre tactics to get the achievements.
Idling, on the other hand, takes up places on legitimate servers, which is a pain in the arse for those playing on them. Maybe not as detrimental as outright overpowering cheats, but still very annoying.
03/09/2009 at 09:20 Don says:
I don’t know what’s more amusing, that some people get so worked up over the removal of imaginary hats or that they should have got so desirous of imaginary hats in the first place that they felt the need to play the system to get them.
I can sort of see it for weapons, was really chuffed when the Razorback dropped into my inventory, but hats!? Anyway I’m off to get me halo.
03/09/2009 at 09:21 Cooper says:
I too don’t understand why they didn’t go after achievement server peeps, but did for this…
To be honest, I’m not sure I care. TF2 is a great game, but I’m not into it enough to care that I’m missing a few items (I’ve got all the ones I want – for the classes I play regularly, I got them very quickly via achievements through normal play).
I’d love to have a chance to pick up items from those I’ve killed. That makes much more sense than the current random drops.
03/09/2009 at 09:27 Vinraith says:
@brulleks
Having idled does not imply having idled on active, legitimate servers though. I’ll be the first to say that idlers on legit servers should have their asses handed to them, much the same as people farming the sandvich achievement on a legit server by refusing to play should have had THEIR asses handed to them back in the “old” days.
It seems odd to me that Valve has suddenly decided to clamp down on abusive behavior when it was fairly rampant and unchecked before. It also seems odd that they chose to do it in a way that harms both those that were harming the game experience of others and those who weren’t. Ultimately I don’t care, they all got their items by “illegitimate” means (though “legitimacy” in a random drop system is largely meaningless IMO), but it seems like a strangely timed, strangely targetted, and unprecedented intervention into item system abuse to me.
03/09/2009 at 09:33 Mike says:
I think because the key to weapons was that you took action to obtain them, but hats were intended to be rare and random.
03/09/2009 at 09:34 Mr Pink says:
I’m confused. What external applications are they referring to? Are they taking away items gained by idling on “idle servers”, or was there some other way of cheating the system? Either way, the halo is hilarious, and a really nice way of rewarding those who play in the “right” spirit :)
03/09/2009 at 09:35 clive dunn says:
I used to love TF2 when it was silly, now i don’t play it because it’s silly.
Things like this don’t help the image of computer gamers. I have a hard enough time convincing my wife that it’s a legitimate use of my precious time.
03/09/2009 at 09:44 Yargh says:
@Mr Pink, I’ve seen this in action on a friend’s PC. It’s a 3rd party app that pretends to be TF2 and connects to a dedicated idling server that was setup for just this purpose.
That’s a quite a difference to actually running the game to get stuff…
03/09/2009 at 09:45 Heliocentric says:
Personally i think that people who use external applications should be banned from vac(steams punkbuster thing) protected servers. But that would be a massive pr problem. Just under 5% of your customers being banned is a pretty big deal. So, no hats for cheaters, could be worse.
03/09/2009 at 09:45 Noc says:
It’s probably worth mentioning that Valve isn’t, unless I’m reading things wrong, cracking down on the practice of sitting around doing nothing on empty servers waiting to get hats. They don’t seem to be cracking down on things people do within the scope of the game, in the same way they didn’t crack down on achievement servers and such.
It’s the whole “Using an external program to simulate playing the game” thing they seem to be objecting to. Which is much more reasonable: letting it slide sets a poor precedent for subsequent hacking or botting apps, and is pretty explicitly outside the realm of legitimate use of the software.
03/09/2009 at 09:50 Heliocentric says:
@yargh Did
you“Your friend” get his hats taken?03/09/2009 at 09:51 Vinraith says:
If we’re exclusively talking about dedicated idling servers (whether accessed via an “external application” or not) then I find myself back at “their priorities seem backwards.” At that point I guess it’s less about the players and the playing experience than it is exercising control of use of their own software. Meh.
03/09/2009 at 09:54 Lu-Tze says:
The HealersAgainstHalos thing is the tip of the iceberg. What Valve have done is made a symbol for all those angry people to vent their rage at, the Halo.
There are already server mods in place that prevent it’s use, and even kick and ban those who equip it, and even where it’s not admins throwing their power around, to the impotently aggravated it’s putting a big arrow on someone saying “Grief this person to feel better”.
The angry backlash on the forums is mirrored in-game, except targeted at people who, for the most part, have no idea what’s going on. It’s a shame to see that Valve have incompetently made the community hostile, and put something in the game to ensure that the anger never ever fades away.
Simply removing their items would’ve done enough.
03/09/2009 at 09:55 Vasagi says:
mild buffoonery amuses greatly
03/09/2009 at 09:56 Lh'owon says:
I dearly hope that atheist thread was a troll, we’re supposed to be the rational ones.
@Heliocentric – don’t be absurd. Using an app to passively idle on a game server is akin to using hacks in a multiplayer game against real people? And should see those users effectively blocked from using the products they paid for? That’s utter nonsense.
Personally I find Valve’s response very funny, but on the other hand I don’t see people who did that as “bad” any more than I see achievement-farmers as bad. Some people just want to enjoy the game with the extra content, not spend endless hours playing in the often vain hope of getting a random drop.
03/09/2009 at 09:57 FunkyB says:
I don’t care if people idle or use the idler. I don’t see why people have any animosity for either side in this total non-issue.
03/09/2009 at 10:00 jon_hill987 says:
About bloody time Valve did something about the idling thing.
03/09/2009 at 10:04 Serondal says:
Anyone else remember a day on Starwars Galaxies when the owners allowed people to attack gold sellers in public without guards defending them ect :P You got a special badge if you killed one. this reminds me a lot of that
03/09/2009 at 10:04 FunkyB says:
Although having said that, I do echo MrPink’s comment that the halos are pretty funny :)
03/09/2009 at 10:06 Cael says:
There are two reasons why people are so up in arms. The first is that the program in question only simulates what you can do normally. All it does it join a server and sit there in spectator mode getting random item drops. It’s the exact same as launching TF2, joining a server, and sitting there in spectator mode, except it doesn’t hog your computer resources like the TF2 client does.
The second reason people are angry is that this program has been out for literally months. Valve has been aware of the program, moderators have commented on the program, people have been using the program for months. Now, all of a sudden, they decide to crack down on the idlers who use the program with no warning at all.
If they had told people from the beginning not to use the program and to sit on the idle servers with the official tf2 client, people would have done that.
03/09/2009 at 10:08 Masked Dave says:
Hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
*wipes away tears*
03/09/2009 at 10:10 DMJ says:
I guess the whole “halo hatred” thing is because the halo is a hat, and those who really have a hat fetish were the ones who would use the third-party app… So the idea of someone prancing around in a hat that they cannot have, when this halo is a symbol of a “moral integrity” (or whatever Valve’s idea of “moral integrity” is at the moment) they can never have must be like pouring boiling mercury into an open wound.
Particularly since their own special hat, which they doubtless stroke and talk to at night, burns them because to wear it symbolises their underhanded nature, which they cannot stand.
It’s a bit like those “purity” rings American teenagers have been known to wear. You know, the ones which induce rage-vomiting in some people.
03/09/2009 at 10:11 Ging says:
Vinraith: they don’t care what use you put your server to, as long as the players connecting to it are actually using the TF2 client – hence the third party application users being targeted.
03/09/2009 at 10:11 An Innocuous Coin says:
I don’t get why Valve needs to punish players who did this whole idling thing. They’re the ones who made hats so impossible to acquire in the first place, you know?
No, really, I just don’t get it, outside of maybe those players not actually playing, thus Valve loses data they could use to improve the game…? Maybe it’d make sense if I actually paid attention to the whole idling thing. Regardless, this seems a bit…unnecessary.
I do think the halos are funny, though.
03/09/2009 at 10:12 Rinox says:
@ Masked Dave
I concur in a wholehearted, booming HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I’m off to play some TF2 with the halo. Love it that Valve went after the achievement/item whores.
03/09/2009 at 10:12 jalf says:
Seems to me like Valve screwed up by introducing random loot which can best be acquired by idling. It’s hardly fair to punish people for doing what makes sense, even if it has had a negative impact on the game for others. It’s still Valve who made it happen. If you introduce broken gameplay mechanics, who’s to blame when your players start playing the game “wrong”?
Oh well, it’s not like it affects me in any way. I’m just glad they’ve largely left TFC alone. It’d break my heart if they decided to play mad scientist on that the way they’ve done with TF2.
03/09/2009 at 10:13 RagingLion says:
Sounds like Valve has been totally proportionate in the way they’ve gone about things, to me.
03/09/2009 at 10:13 gulag says:
Seems quite clear to me that this is squarely a shot at people using external apps with TF2. Sure, the idler app was benign, but it’s the start of a slippery slope. An Idler might ask himself what other sorts of apps might be run that would ‘enhance’ their experience of the game? Valve really have no choice but to drop the hammer hard, and hope people learn the lesson. And if the Angry Internet Men decide to retaliate with more abusive cheats? Well, there is always the Ban Hammer, and they can’t say they didn’t get fair warning.
Patience is a virtue. No one playing the game has some sort of inaliable ‘right’ to this or that item, and any argument along those lines boils down to “I want it, and I want it now! Wah Wah Wah!”, which is about as childish as it gets.
03/09/2009 at 10:14 Gap Gen says:
4.5% is quite a big number, though, when you consider the number of people who have TF2.
And yeah, Valve seemed to have fumbled a bit on this one. Like people have said, if they just use a completely random drop system, statistically there are people who will always be denied hats. It’s perhaps not their fault entirely, but they have turned something that was supposed to be fun and meaningless into a pogrom.
03/09/2009 at 10:14 Heliocentric says:
3rd party application isn’t playing wrong?
03/09/2009 at 10:14 Idle Threats and Bad Poetry says:
Where’s all the good XBOX 360 puns when you need ‘em? I can’t think of any to contribute that aren’t lame. :(
03/09/2009 at 10:16 Mr Pink says:
Hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned eh?
03/09/2009 at 10:16 StalinsGhost says:
I gots me a friggin shweet halo.
Awesome move there, Valve.
03/09/2009 at 10:21 greenB says:
I like not only the ridiculous hyperbole of practically making everyone who didn’t use the idle app a saint, but also the halo itself. I mean, it’s basically a shining “headshot goes here” marker.
Also, that TF2blog post sure is interesting… not only is the drop chance for non-religious hats higher now, but they mention the ever-elusive trading system and CRAFTING for unlockables!
03/09/2009 at 10:24 Hmm-Hmm. says:
Silliness. Silliness squared, even!
03/09/2009 at 10:25 Metal_Circus says:
Wow. The reaction to this is meaningless, petty and dumbfoundingly idiotic all at the same time.
03/09/2009 at 10:27 Metal_Circus says:
Although a halo will be lovely. thankyou valve.
03/09/2009 at 10:31 Azazel says:
I love how Valve turned TF2 into World of TF2 as a piss take, and then people who were SERIOUSLY after all the achievements descend on them in a cluster bonk of lamery.
Oh the ironing.
03/09/2009 at 10:31 Tom says:
Man, people get worked up over nothing…
03/09/2009 at 10:35 Stense says:
Sounds to me like some people need their sense of humour checking.
Whats the point of having a game if you’re not actually playing it, just leaving it running idle? The unlockables are supposed to be rewards for playing the game. If someone didn’t play to get them, why should they be allowed to keep them.
03/09/2009 at 10:39 Elman says:
So they added stupid grinding to the game (With ridiculously low drop rates according to what I heard), and people tried to bypass that, because they don’t want to play WoW?
Surprising.
03/09/2009 at 10:40 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
As an atheist I am outraged at outraged atheists!
And the punishment is clearly over an external app designed to screw with the system, so it’s hard to get outraged over that, too.
Valve just can’t catch a break from these people.
03/09/2009 at 10:50 SirDorius says:
This is partly Valve’s fault for releasing a half baked item system, but I can’t sympathize with people running external applications either. Blame divided in half!
03/09/2009 at 10:53 Christian says:
Aah, the TF2-forums. Funnier than any comedy, more depressing than any of those real-life-dokus, more boring than soaps and more entertaining than most movies. No need for a tv when you’ve got the internet.
Also, I
secondthird Masked Dave.03/09/2009 at 10:54 Springy says:
“So they added stupid grinding to the game (With ridiculously low drop rates according to what I heard), and people tried to bypass that, because they don’t want to play WoW?”
Grinding is something necessary to make progress. Hats aren’t progress, though I will understand if someone wants to debate that.
03/09/2009 at 10:58 Sabre says:
I used said external app for about five minutes, got a duplicate Dead Ringer, decided it wasn’t worth the effort and got rid of it: I had better things to do with my connection and my computer’s battery power. Suppose I won’t be getting any halos as a result. Ah well.
03/09/2009 at 10:59 Tzivya says:
I’m more amused that I never cheated, but didn’t get a halo. Apparently, there are sekrit activity levels or something you have to meet, they didn’t just give it to everyone who didn’t cheat. =) Not that I care, really, but. :)
03/09/2009 at 11:00 EBass says:
I’m finding this amusing more than anything else. But then Valve have ruined TF2 for me. The game was perfect on release all it needed was new maps. All the crazy bullshit now just makes the game annoying.
03/09/2009 at 11:03 gulag says:
A thought suddenly strikes me. (Ouch)
RPS has a strong TF2 playing community, running the server and such. What are the admin’s stances on halos and all that jazz? If I show up tonight wearing mine, will I be kicked? What if I show up without it? Will there be a sane response, a lone island of calm in the seething sea of froth-tards?
03/09/2009 at 11:03 Bhazor says:
Valve have really screwed a lot of people with these unlocks, gimping new players and unbalancing the servers for weeks whenever a new batch of content is released. Still its impressive they support the game with free content despite not having a subscription model.
Re the Atheist forum.
It’s a troll or maybe a clever joke by one of them atheist types. Actually by complaining rather than being merely apathetic would make the poster an antitheist. But he still called himself an atheist. Stupid godless fiends.
03/09/2009 at 11:04 Bobsy says:
Wait, what does RICHARD DAWKINS think about this?
03/09/2009 at 11:04 MacBeth says:
What’s this ‘punishment’ that the whiners are whining about? It’s just a reset switch that takes their items back to how they would have been if they’d never idled at all, or if idling had never worked. They exerted no effort and paid no money to get their ‘reward’ so they really have got nothing to get angry about if it gets taken away because they didn’t win it in the fashion intended by the people giving out the rewards. But then getting angry due to a misplaced sense of entitlement is par for the course I guess.
Some have claimed that legitimately ‘earned’ hats have disappeared too. If that’s true then OK, you can be slightly miffed. But even then, it’s just a hat you got when the dice fell your way.
It’s not grinding, because a) the hats are meaningless and b) there is no cumulative aspect to it. It’s just a lottery (a hattery?) and the rules are that you take part by playing the game. It’s not a quest to get hats that you can or must achieve by any means necessary.
03/09/2009 at 11:06 Larington says:
If people decide they don’t want to play the game as the designers clearly intended it to be, how the heck can they not suspect they might get punished for doing so?
This is basically the reaction of a bunch of immature children who are crying because they’ve been found with a hand in the cookie jar.
Grow up, the lot of ‘em.
No sympathy.
03/09/2009 at 11:08 JuJuCam says:
@Elman I think you’ll find in the 4.5% of idlers a subsection of those who ran a TF2 idler so that they could, at the same time, also play WoW.
And the TF2 “grind” isn’t analogous to an MMO grind because there is no definite action that spawns item drops. It’s more progressquestian than anything else.
03/09/2009 at 11:09 heroic zero says:
Between this and all the L4D2 hullabaloo I think Valve may have discovered stirring up gamers as a fun new metagame for developers to play. Why just push pixels when you can push angry men into a froth on the internet?
Really, though. Are there no more worthy causes for these people to get excited about? It’s truly pathetic to get this worked up about a [b]game[/b] when there are people starving in the world.
03/09/2009 at 11:09 Sparvy says:
I dont know, punishing people for an idler program seems more like a slippery slope into unacceptable behaivour than using one, Valve has been crossing the line a few times with TF2 if you ask me.
Honestly, leave it to the server admins to punish cheaters and other twats, just give them VAC to detect real cheaters, that way things that actually affect the gameplay will get cracked down on instead of this meaningless gesture of power.
03/09/2009 at 11:13 Tei says:
I am a cheater myself (not on this game), I like to create my own cheats for singleplayer games (not online).
I rationalize cheating as meta-meta gaming. So, please, don’t call me a cheater, call me a metameta player.
03/09/2009 at 11:15 Sparvy says:
@Larington
I doubt there are any multiplayer game that is played exactly like the creators intended, and all the better for it.
03/09/2009 at 11:17 Lack_26 says:
They could have just VAC banned cheaters, but they didn’t, it strikes me as a bit like braking the speed limit (another ‘Victimless crime’ apparently) and not expecting to get points on your licence. Well that’s a bit of a strong analogy but you get the idea.
03/09/2009 at 11:17 Bhazor says:
Reply to Bobsy
Richard Dawkins is frothing at the mouth furious. He’s kicked his cat, he’s shouted at a wall, he’s changed his twitter message to some The Smiths lyrics, he’s wrote the word bastardcock. Not about this mind you, this is just his default setting. The guy would have an argument with his own reflection.
03/09/2009 at 11:24 Thrawny says:
@brulleks
Idling with the 3rd party program takes up zero space on legitimate servers, the program runs without TF2 and just connects you to a fake idle server, sometimes there are thousands of people connected to them, this was done to stop people sitting in proper servers taking up spots that could otherwise be used by someone that isn’t at college/work/Uni.
can’t say any of this bothers me tbh, there are many more serious things that are deserving of rage and ranting.
03/09/2009 at 11:25 Innokenti says:
Considering that Valve just took away the idled items, it’s hardly any kind of serious punishment. Just a reset.
The thing with the halo was clearly an attempt at humour in TF2 style over a fairly silly issue. As pointed out elsewhere… they’re hats.
So I say what Masked Dave said.
03/09/2009 at 11:29 Jazmeister says:
My wife used an idler and I didn’t. Hmm.
I should change my steam name to “Jazmeister (athiest)” and wear my halo proudly.
03/09/2009 at 11:29 phuzz says:
In other news, the Steam forums were up in arms yesterday because someone implied, that possibly, in some territories, the sky might be blue. Allegedly.
For me TF2 is about as entertaining as it was when it came out, and hey, it’s not like we’ve had to pay for anything except the game.
03/09/2009 at 11:35 Jive says:
I love Valve.
I really do. This is brilliant.
03/09/2009 at 11:37 Tony says:
I can see the point in the weapon unlocks (because seriously? Half the Scout ones are like STUN EVERYONE YOU MEET but YOU CAN’T BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO SANDMAN HURR), ‘though I haven’t cheated. But hats? They’re hats, man.
They just sit there and look pretty, and although I wish the drop rate was higher (I mean, it’s pretty pathetic as it is) so I could get my pyro chicken hat or camerabeard, it’s not the end of the world. It’s not magically going to make me a better player.
I wish it did, though. Sometimes I suck arse.
03/09/2009 at 11:38 TotalBiscuit says:
I love Valve, they are great at making manchildren rage over utterly meaningless things.
03/09/2009 at 11:39 Jacques says:
I really don’t understand how people could possibly be pissed off that they’ve been shafted for using 3rd party apps.
03/09/2009 at 11:43 Simpsoid says:
I only just became aware of the idling program about a week ago. I tried it and found about 5 things I already had before.
They got taken off me.
But now it’s funny because spies wearing the halo can be seen running around whilst invisible. Their halo’s don’t seem to cloak properly. Makes my ubersaw work much better.
I’m so glad that on the same day EA released a BF2 patch. Finally I can play new content on my second most favourite and quite possibly the funnest game of all time. (Quake 1 is the first in case you’re wondering).
03/09/2009 at 11:46 Ludo says:
I finally get a hat, ace!
03/09/2009 at 11:47 sfury says:
Kudos to Valve. I had stopped playing for a couple of months but it’s time now to go back to TF2 and collect my Halo.
And maybe gun down some fiendish medics in the process.
03/09/2009 at 11:54 Wisq says:
A few different points:
The external app was not designed to “screw with the system”, merely to mimic sitting idle in a TF2 server. It’s no different than actually running TF2 and sitting in a server, except that it’s less of a resource hog — and not just for the player, since it means far fewer servers for the Steam master servers to track, and for people to browse through.
The “4.5% affected” figure is quite possibly wrong/deceptive. Only 20% of TF2 owners actually (still) play TF2, so if the 4.5% is versus total owners, the affected percentage of the active community is more like 22%.
There were nearly ten thousand players idling at any given time, and I’m not even sure if that was ten thousand total, or ten thousand per each of the three idle servers. If those were 4.5% of the active TF2 community, then I would expect to be seeing hundreds of thousands of people on servers each day. Maybe that’s really how it is, but it seems a bit high.
While Valve’s response may indeed be “gentle” and “generous”, it’s hardly a well-thought-out one. Valve created this whole mess in the first place via their ill-thought-out system — random chances per unit time played to get items.
Naturally, this created a huge incentive for players to maximise their playtime, and many chose to do so by not actually playing for a large percent of it — to the detriment of everyone else, since they would sit as spectator or idle players on legitimate servers.
The achievement_idle map was created, where players could idle without clogging up the legitimate servers, but that just created a flood of useless servers on the server list.
Finally, a third party created the TF2 idle program, and the huge number of achievement_idle servers was reduced to a handful of servers serving thousands of people at once.
So, Valve created a flawed system with a strong perverse incentive, the community created a utility to minimise the impact of that system, and everyone was happy.
Everyone except Valve, that is. And their response is to not only take away all gains made via the idle program, but also to reward people who didn’t use the idle program — including people who just sat in achievement_idle servers instead, which, as you recall, were more of a problem for legitimate TF2 players than the people using the idle program.
The irony now is that half the players on today’s achievement_idle servers are wearing halos. Apparently, this has nothing to do with idling, and everything to do with using external applications. External applications that were written using the SDK provided by Valve, and that were never condemned or prohibited by Valve.
Personally, I had the misfortune of starting to use the idle program just a week or so ago. I got absolutely nothing from it. Every item was a duplicate, of lower level than what I had, and was automatically discarded. I never received a single hat. I only started using the program because I had seen my friends using it for months, during which I had failed to receive a single rare item legitimately.
Since Valve appeared to be perfectly happy with the idle program, I figured I’d join them. A week later, the service is gone, I’ve received absolutely nothing from it, and I’m still flagged as a “cheater” and don’t get a halo. Thanks, Valve.
I’m not going to stop playing TF2 over this, and I’ll probably still buy titles on Steam — but honestly, the Valve/Steam honeymoon is over. I’d already heard tales of people getting their Steam account banned (along with access to all their games) for events truly beyond their control, e.g. accidental reversed charges by credit card companies, and Valve showing no interest in allowing them to appeal.
I put these aside as vague tales of caution, since Valve seemed like quite a sensible and consumer-friendly bunch. As with Google, I was okay downplaying my “they have too much power” thought, because of my mitigating “they seem to use it quite well” thought. As the latter fades, I’m left with the former, and each addition to my Steam library feels like I’m just putting yet another egg in the same basket.
03/09/2009 at 11:58 Vandelay says:
Wahoo!! I get a special hat!
How anyone can think that they are being unjustly punished for using a third party application is beyond me. I wouldn’t even see any problem with removing items from people who got them through achievement/idling servers, you’ve cheated the system and should not be surprised when things have been put the way they should be.
The drop system for items was certainly absurd, but for hats it is perfectly fine. They are meant to be rare, you are meant to feel special when you receive one. If everybody on a server had hats then they would be pointless. Hopefully, when they say that they have increased the hat drop it isn’t too significant. If the majority of players had about 2-3 hats then it would be about right (and this is coming from someone who has had no hats until the halo.)
Also, more of these special hats/objects for specific people would be great.
03/09/2009 at 12:03 Yargh says:
@Heliocentric
I haven’t checked with my friend since this morning so I don’t know if he got caught out yet.
I did spend a few minutes before going to work equipping a new shiny halo on all of my classes however :D
03/09/2009 at 12:10 Psychopomp says:
“So they added stupid grinding to the game (With ridiculously low drop rates according to what I heard), and people tried to bypass that, because they don’t want to play WoW?”
That’s right, going about your merry business, and playing the game like you were is grinfing.
Anyone who thinks this fails at logic forever.
As for the random drops=MMO mentality,man, Diablo was such an MMO, let me tell you!
“Why are some of my fellow non-believers so intent on being offended by anything and everything? It makes them look far too much like the right wing Christian zealots they decry.”
“I get the impression that many nonbelievers are just fine about tolerating religious belief as long as they can do it condescendingly, blowing off rational statements by believers as quixotic or delusional. Challenge the underlying assumption that nonbelief is inherently more intellectually sound or scientific than belief, or show that many of the most common arguments by nonbelievers are on the same superficial level as arguments by Intelligent Designers and, well, the gloves come off and the veneer of civility evaporates.”
— Steven Dutch
03/09/2009 at 12:13 Malagate says:
I heard about it this morning, the first thing I did was open up TF2 and try it out! I could equip the halo, but unfortunately couldn’t see it when I went into the game (as Demo or Soldier, does it only work on classes which already have unlocks or something?). That was on the RPS official server too, I’ll check it when I get back home.
Was a bright and lovely laugh for the start of the day regardless!
03/09/2009 at 12:16 Psychopomp says:
@Mala
For some reason, for awhile after they went out, you weren’t able to see them on many servers. It should be fine now.
03/09/2009 at 12:23 Wisq says:
Forgot to add this:
The halo may have been intended as cute and funny and all that. Or it may have been a serious way of saying thanks; I don’t know. But the end result is the same either way.
Take a bunch of people in real life. Divide them up arbitrarily into two groups. Give some sort of special item to group A and tell them that it’s because they’re somehow better than group B in some specific way. Tell group B they did something wrong and they don’t get anything.
I can almost guarantee you that however cute or funny or silly the circumstances, there are going to be people in group A that flaunt their items in front of people from group B, and there are going to be people in group B that resent the people in group A (and probably you as well).
Congratulations, you’ve just managed to create a split between two parts of the community. That’s great for sociology experiments. Not so great for a teamplay game where everyone is supposed to work together and have fun.
This is where most of the resentment comes from, I think. It’s a natural response when we feel we’ve been wronged or unfairly labelled, even if the consequences are just a few pixels on someone’s head.
(Conversely, I suspect the people who weren’t labelled find it hard to sympathise with those who were, having been told those people did something wrong, and having been congratulated for holding the moral high ground.)
Now, it’s true that Valve won’t ever get any more of our money from TF2 — but by providing them with a vibrant TF2 community, Valve can continue to sell more copies to more people. (That’s why a “TF2 boycott” isn’t as completely useless as it sounds. Just mostly useless.)
Valve’s TF2 offerings have usually been pretty generous and sensible, and I suppose I’m still thankful for that. But sometimes they just seem to go completely off the deep end into self-sabotage.
03/09/2009 at 12:33 jon_hill987 says:
I propose a solution for the anger:
Everyone with a halo join Team BLU everyone without join Team RED.
03/09/2009 at 12:35 l1ddl3monkey says:
I’m finding it hard to take anyone involved in this “debate” seriously. No matter where I look on the internet this entire argument is devoid of anything even vaguelyu approaching intelligent discourse.
For those people who used this cheat/exploit/glitch (call it what you will) to get a hat and have now called the waaaaaaaambulance because it got taken away:
If it’s “only a hat”, as some people are suggesting, why the manic rage when it gets taken away?
Surely if it’s “only a hat” and you didn’t pay for it and you didn’t do anything to earn it, you don’t mind if it’s taken away?
Or is it that, somewhere in that bit of you that tells yourself the truth, you don’t like the fact they took it away because when you got it by devious means you felt like you’d got one over on big bad evil corporate Valve; and now they’ve got their own back?
Cos from reading some of the anti-valve “waaaaah – they stole my hat” threads, that’s what it sounds like to me.
And militant atheists: please explain how your incessant ranting stance, ad hominem attacks, name calling, swearing and general frothing at the mouth is in any way different from the sort of thing we would expect to see from the hardcore fundamentalists?
I’m an atheist; you people are not atheists because you are lacking the basic rationalism that your stance should impart. You people are just whiners with a chip on your shoulder who have found something to moan about where, just for once, you are on the right side of the argument. Grow up you disturbingly angry nutjobs.
03/09/2009 at 12:40 MD says:
Decrying a lack of intelligent discourse then accusing others of ‘calling the the waaaaaaaambulance’ seems a bit hypocritical. Probably best just to take a step back and remain detached from the whole thing.
03/09/2009 at 12:41 MD says:
(my mistake with the extra “the”, in case it looks like that was the point of my paraphrasing)
03/09/2009 at 12:41 Jeremy says:
I got a halo!
03/09/2009 at 12:43 The Sombrero Kid says:
w00t my first hat!
03/09/2009 at 12:44 MCHN says:
Brilliant, Valve. If people don’t want to play the effin game for, you know, the joy of actually playing the effin game, then you can round them all up and shoot them as far as I’m concerned. But witholding a halo hat from them is an acceptable alternative.
03/09/2009 at 12:51 unique_identifier says:
HATHATHATHATHAT – I GOT A HAT – HAT. ahem.
can’t say I saw a backlash to this – maybe I just play on the wrong servers, with reasonable people.
and seconding Simpsoid’s earlier comment, the fact that the halo doesn’t cloak is pretty funny
03/09/2009 at 12:55 TotalBiscuit says:
“And militant atheists: please explain how your incessant ranting stance, ad hominem attacks, name calling, swearing and general frothing at the mouth is in any way different from the sort of thing we would expect to see from the hardcore fundamentalists?”
They aren’t. Militant atheists are just as bad as any other religious fanatic.
03/09/2009 at 13:00 Jayt says:
4.5% turns out to be 1/3 of the current playerbase fyi
03/09/2009 at 13:00 Dracko says:
They should just have everything available to players right out of the box.
“But then no-one would use the default weapons!”
Yeah, because they’re crap. That’s a design issue Valve should deal with.
03/09/2009 at 13:00 JoeDuck says:
@heroic zero: The L4D2 reference is interesting, I do not know how to measure it, but I bet that the overlap between the famous 4,5% TF2 angry men and the ultra famous (200000?) L4D2 boycotters is quite big. They are the same people, methinks…
03/09/2009 at 13:06 Rudolfo says:
@clive dunn
Things like this don’t help the image of computer gamers. I have a hard enough time convincing my wife that it’s a legitimate use of my precious time.
It’s not, you could roll around on your front lawn and be more legit with your time…but who cares, it’s entertainment…
03/09/2009 at 13:07 Starky says:
I got my Halo, and I’m going to wear it all the time and laugh mightily in the face of anyone who gets angry at me for it.
That is all.
03/09/2009 at 13:09 Bhazor says:
Reply to TotalBiscuit and l1dd13monkey
For fuck sake. There is no such thing as militant atheism. It’s like calling it fanatic apathy, or intense disinterest. Militant atheism is anti-theism (or antitheism not sure what the spelling is). Also I oppose religion because of the free ride the various bigots, homophobes and misogynists get from religion. Anti-theism won’t be as bad as fundamentalist religion until it’s split into a dozen factions with each faction declaring that everyone in the other factions should be killed to bits and then burn for all eternity.
03/09/2009 at 13:10 Jacques says:
I’m going to play Medic with my halo and only heal other halo’d players.
03/09/2009 at 13:12 CMaster says:
I don’t think many people in this “debate” are being at all serious. Certainly there doesn’t seem to be any real attitude out there in the game.
@Joeduck. No. I have a halo. I’m also dissapointed about the way Valve have handled the Left 4 Dead “franchise” as it now appears to be. That said, I’m not ruling out buying L4D2 if I (and my friends) like it enough – just I’m never likley to buy a fun but flawed game from Valve again.
03/09/2009 at 13:14 CMaster says:
Addendum – also, I find the way this has been handled with the Halos etc, rather than a simple removal of the items only (which is what almost any games company would have done) hilarious and reminds me why I so often do love Valve.
03/09/2009 at 13:20 Melf_Himself says:
Lol @ angry internet men.
03/09/2009 at 13:23 Risingson says:
@Bhazor : you don’t know how much fear I have of some so-called communists, liberals and atheists when they defend gay rights, for example. Anti-theism (love the term), in this specific case, is just intolerance. Not to mention the obvious influence of religious symbols (say christian, say hebraic, say whatever) in occidental culture, manners, laws, and so on.
So this “anti-halo” thing just made me laugh at all. Above it all when I saw that some people take this matter seriously.
03/09/2009 at 13:32 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
I’m in the “this is hilarious” camp.
Full disclosure: I did get a halo. But even if I hadn’t, I would still think the whole halo thing hilarious.
Which is exactly the way Valve has always dealt with cheats of all kinds, whether big in-game aimbot cheats or small unlock-some-achievements or idle-to-get-hats cheats. It’s necessary for them to do this to avoid giving timely feedback to the creators of the cheat programs that might help them make them undetectable.
03/09/2009 at 13:33 St. VelvetFistIronGlove says:
Whoops, I meant to post with this name :)
03/09/2009 at 13:35 Starky says:
I’ll add a QFT on what Bhazor said, no such thing as militant Atheism. Just antitheism and misotheism
You can be antitheist without been an atheist.
In fact I’d wager there are more antitheist believers than none-believers. Those who war against the idea of a capital G, God, out of fear (implying belief), where most atheists just don’t give a rats arse.
Then there are people like me who don’t care what people believe personally be it fairies, unicorns, god or gods, but are massively against organized dogmatic religion, because that just breeds extremism.
There are people that have faith, and they are fine good people who aside from having differing beliefs I can get on well with – then there are idiots who believe the bible as literal truth and try and force that idiotic truth on the rest of us.
Those people I could do without.
03/09/2009 at 13:40 Psychopomp says:
“There is no such thing as militant atheism.”
You’ve not been on the internet long, if you honestly believe that.
Fundamentalist atheists do exist, and they’re every bit as comically retarded as their religious counterparts.
“Anti-theism won’t be as bad as fundamentalist religion until it’s split into a dozen factions with each faction declaring that everyone in the other factions should be killed to bits and then burn for all eternity.”
Funny, many fundamentalist atheists say that’s what should happen to religious people.
03/09/2009 at 13:47 jalf says:
Speaking as an outsider who never got into TF2 in the first place, I’m not so sure.
if a developer adds a mechanism that rewards you for idling, how should players interpret this? How should they assume that the developers “intend for the game to be played”?
If the developers encourage idling, why not idle? And if you’re just idling anyway, what difference does it make whether you idle in person or through a third-party app?
I can see the logic in that, at least. It looks to me like Valve asked for this by introducing such a broken mechanic into the game.
Oh yes, let’s take a discussion about religion. That’s super relevant. Nevertheless, I’ll bite..
When was the last time you saw a “militant atheist”:
- deny medical aid to their children?
- Start wars?
- Kill over religious (or antireligious) reasons?
- Tell others what they can and can not do, who they can get married to, whether you’re allowed to have sex with your girlfriend or whether you’re *allowed* to use a condom?
- Attempt to get fairytales introduced into science classes in school?
- Require a US president to declare his atheism before he can get sworn in?
- Disown or freeze out family members for believing differently than you?
If you’re religious, you can do as much namecalling, frothing at the mouth, swearing and whatever else as you like. I’m fine with that. It’s part of the whole “free speech” thing. You’re allowed to call me an insensitive jerk. You’re even allowed to say I’m going to burn in hell for all eternity.
Where most atheists start seeing red is in the above examples: It’s when you try to use your religion to impose limitations and constraints on the lives of others.
Just… Don’t do that. Let me burn in hell if I want to. Let lesbians get married, let doctors see to your sick child if prayers don’t help. Let people who know about biology decide what to teach in biology classes, just like people who know about religion decide what to teach in religion classes.
Those are the things atheists object to. Not name-calling and swearing.
Now, if you want to discuss this, create a forum thread.
Otherwise, I suggest we get back to raging about Valve and TF2 and cheaters. :p
Getting back on topic, like Wisq said, this consequence seems pretty unsurprising. If you split people into two groups, those who get something and those who don’t, *of course* there are going to be hard feelings. Of course those who get will flaunt whatever they got in front of those who didn’t, and of course those who didn’t will be pissed and feel cheated. Regardless of who’s right or wrong, it seems a very efficient way for Valve to divide and destroy the community.
03/09/2009 at 13:48 jalf says:
Source please?
03/09/2009 at 13:55 Jacques says:
Jalf, the point is, the hats aren’t rewards for idling, they’re rewards for spending time playing the game, it’s just the system hasn’t been well implemented.
03/09/2009 at 13:55 Bhazor says:
It is worth reiterating that the original atheist forum post was probably a joke.
And there is still no such thing as militant atheism. If you argue against that I will violently not care.
03/09/2009 at 13:59 Mejwell says:
I think anyone who’s written more than a sentence on this issue has way too much time on their hands and needs to re-prioritize.
No offense intended to you RPS folk, though; your job and all that.
03/09/2009 at 14:02 Paul Moloney says:
Personally, I’m baffled at the table-gnawing stupidity of people using ANY kind of external application that interferes with a VAC-enabled multiplayer game, in order to get a _decorative item which has no gameplay value whatsoever_. Good lord, people; you got away with it easy, suck it up and move on.
P.
03/09/2009 at 14:06 Mejwell says:
I think Valve should pioneer a system that rewards hats only to people who don’t give half a duck’s whisker about hats.
03/09/2009 at 14:07 Pod says:
This is a complete non-issue.
03/09/2009 at 14:09 Pod says:
ADDITIONALLY:
I don’t see the system as being “broken”.
You continue to play their game, they give you free stuff. Win win.
03/09/2009 at 14:10 St. Doug F says:
No one seems to have noticed this part of the news post:
“We’ve also significantly increased the chance of finding any of the existing hats.”
03/09/2009 at 14:24 cyrenic says:
Quick, since we’re already talking about a controversial Valve decision and religion at the same time, let’s start talking about piracy and see if we can hit 3000 comments.
Seriously, I’ve never seen such a storm in a teacup.
03/09/2009 at 14:29 Psychopomp says:
“Source please?”
Hold on, let me link you to *every thread about religion, on any forum ever.*
Also, you’re confusing the term “militant atheist,” with “atheist.” An atheist doesn’t froth at the mouth, at the thought that someone might believe in a sky wizard. An atheist doesn’t become a condescending prick when around theists. An atheist doesn’t consider himself intellectually superior to someone over beliefs. An atheist doesn’t believe that just because you’re religious, you’re as bad as a fundamentalist.
A militant atheist does.
03/09/2009 at 14:35 Bantros says:
@wisq, 2 excellent posts. Sum up the entire situation perfectly
03/09/2009 at 14:40 l1ddl3monkey says:
@ Mejwell: Yes I have a vast amount of free time on my hands. It’s great.
03/09/2009 at 14:46 Namos says:
I still think Valve should have given the cheaters a hat – with a take 1000% additional damage modifier. It would have been nicely ironic.
03/09/2009 at 14:49 The Fanciest of Pants says:
This is hilarious.
People are always finding zany new reasons to hate valve.
03/09/2009 at 14:52 Trite says:
Psychopomp, I’d say that “antitheist” is a better alternative to “militant atheist”.
I am one. Religions are a cancer of the humanity.
03/09/2009 at 14:55 Mad Doc MacRae says:
Hats (and even most of the unlocks) are just icing on the cake. Play TF2 because it’s fun and oozes character. Not because you have a hat.
(Though I’ve equipped the halo on all of my dudes)
03/09/2009 at 15:00 shinygerbil says:
I’d like to step up and be an ANGRY INTERNET MAN for the day.
AARRGGHH*
*Meh.
03/09/2009 at 15:05 Psychopomp says:
“Religions are a cancer of the humanity.”
No, humans is the cancer of humanity. If religion didn’t exist, we’d find some other stupid reason to kill each other.
03/09/2009 at 15:11 Noc says:
RELIGION CAUSES PIRACY AND IS KILLING PC GAMING.
. . . that’s right, I totally went there.
03/09/2009 at 15:14 Psychopomp says:
“RELIGION CAUSES PIRACY AND IS KILLING PC GAMING ALSO WORLD OF TEAM FORTRESS AND L4D2!”
No, NOW you went there.
03/09/2009 at 15:15 lumpi says:
Meh.
Valve is turning an online FPS game into some kind of mini-MMORPG. “Click here 1000 times to get to level 35 and receive the magic wand of wankery for your
PaladinEngineer!” And now punishing players who dared to spend their 1000 clicks idling? i.e. Punishing them for having less fun getting those ridiculous upgrades? It’s not like they hacked into a server and trolled everyone.It’s so awfully gimmicky. I don’t know how these tasks are distributed, but I’d rather see the extra effort of creating 30 new hats being spent on actual gameplay instead. Those modelers and coders can’t be that underemployed?
I can see this turn into a micro-transaction mode. Kinda like that new Battlefield game. For only $3 you can buy a tutu and pony for your heavy. For $5 more, you get the “Annihilator”, a gun that kills everyone in a 10 meter radius. Unless you buy the $15 “Anti-Annihilator Shield”, of course…
Welcome to the gaming version of selling of indulgences. It’s hard to believe those “fun upgrades” will stay a free service forever. Did you hear how much BF:Heroes made with virtual sunglasses?
03/09/2009 at 15:17 PaulMorel says:
I basically gave up TF2 because of this stupid bullshit.
There’s no way to properly EARN the rewards!! That means that noobs with two hours of game time can be running around with a hat on your favorite character, while people with 400+ hours put into the game don’t get shit.
I know that hats are pointless, but that is still a huge slap in the face. So yeah, fake-idling was stupid, but it was the only way to earn the hats.
This new thing is just ridiculous, and another big slap to hardcore players.
If there were just a way to earn the hats, then it would be fine.
03/09/2009 at 15:19 yhancik says:
It’s only fair if Halo players get Fortress hats.
03/09/2009 at 15:19 Psychopomp says:
@Lumpi
Apparently playing TF2 like you were beforehand, except now you have a chance to get something new, turns a game into a grind. Yep, I sure do hate having to play a team based FPS like a team based FPS, and not have to worry about achievements, because MAN IS IT EVER GRINDY!
Every last person who thinks that fails at logic.
03/09/2009 at 15:21 El Stevo says:
I’m a militant atheist.
03/09/2009 at 15:22 brulleks says:
@Vinraith
Ah, yes – I suppose that if the servers themselves aren’t populated by legitimate players then that renders my point rather moot.
I’d also agree with those that have said that this random drop system is in itself rather silly – why not just give the hats out immediately f people are that desperate for them? I play the game for fun of the gameplay itself, not for the barbie-doll simulation it’s threatening to become.
Mind you, I can’t see why they don’t just give the weapons out to all players immediately either, to ensure a balanced game for everyone.
03/09/2009 at 15:22 Psychopomp says:
” noobs”
You lost all credibility there.
Get over yourself.
“So yeah, fake-idling was stupid, but it was the only way to earn the hats.”
Oh really? I have two hats, earned with no idling time. Fancy that.
It’s a purely cosmetic thing, put your e-peen away. It means nothing. Nothing at all. Get over it.
03/09/2009 at 15:29 RC-1290'Dreadnought' says:
If they won’t heal people with halos, I’ll do it… Less points for them, more for me :).
03/09/2009 at 15:33 yhancik says:
I basically gave up Wonka Bars because of this stupid bullshit.
There’s no way to properly EARN Golden Ticket!! That means that skinny children under the age of 7 can be running around with a lifetime supply of your favourite Wonka candies, while bulimic people don’t get shit.
I know that Golden Ticket are pointless, but that is still a huge slap in the face. So yeah, buying Wonka Bars without eating them was stupid, but it was the only way to earn the Golden Tickets.
This new thing is just ridiculous, and another big slap to hardcore chocolate eaters.
If there were just a way to earn the Golden Ticket, then it would be fine.
03/09/2009 at 15:34 DMJ says:
@RPS: Next time there’s a Valve-themed headline, can we have some notice to dive for the shelters and prepare the popcorn and get comfy seats ready? The only saving grace is that so far nobody has brought up Hitler…
*damn*
03/09/2009 at 15:34 Psychopomp says:
Actually, make that three hats now, thanks to Valve :)
03/09/2009 at 15:38 A-Scale says:
I only idled out of frustration for a few hours when the drop system was implemented (to the exclusion of achievement based weapons). I think I got 2 or 3 weapons out of that. Lets see if they take those away. Unfortunately I can’t check until later tonight as I am at work right now. Anyone else who idled early but not for very long lose their weapons?
As to hats: I have none.
03/09/2009 at 15:47 Rich_P says:
TF2 is my most-played game these days, not because of hats or achievements, but because it’s so damn fun. Getting a hat every now and then through regular play is a nice little reward, but ultimately inconsequential to my enjoyment of the game as a whole. People take in-game cosmetic items way too seriously.
03/09/2009 at 15:49 RogB says:
hats are utterly pointless and should never have been implemented. However, whining exploiters caught red handed and humiliated are very entertaining to read on the forums.
The only downside to this, is the rift thats happening between idlers and ‘halos’, where either side seem intent to grief each other. (not healing etc). That will affect gameplay unfortunately.
03/09/2009 at 15:50 Dave says:
SERIOUS GAME IS SERIOUS.
I swear, some of these people live in an alternate universe.
03/09/2009 at 15:52 A-Scale says:
Ok so I didn’t lose any items after all. And I got the halo. That’s good because I hear that some people got their non-idled weapons removed.
Also I was unaware that there was an out of TF2 idling program that could be used. That’s very strange. I just sat in an idle server for a while, but I guess that didn’t count as cheating.
Here is my backpack. You can use this site to see yours too. Useful if you are at work and can’t get in game.
http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197976057124
03/09/2009 at 16:11 A-Scale says:
Ugh…
03/09/2009 at 16:26 jsutcliffe says:
Good lord. They’re just hats. I don’t understand (1) why people would go to extraordinary lengths to get them or (2) why people would go to extraordinary lengths to stop people having them. If they were potent weapon unlocks or anything that might grant an unfair advantage I might see the point.
On the plus side, I guess I finally have my first hat now.
03/09/2009 at 16:34 Chalkster says:
What everyone seems to misunderstand is that Valve is not talking about idling, they’re talking about using external applications like steamstats.exe to simulate playing on a tf2 server and get unlocks while the game isn’t actually active.
I had that thing on only to collect Sandmen.
I no get halo, not big surprise.
Not big loss.
If everyone and their grandma has a halo, the allure is gone, and no one wants one.
03/09/2009 at 16:35 Stick says:
Ah, the TF2 forums. The only place online that makes the EVE boards seem populated by sane and sensible people.
03/09/2009 at 16:59 Dan says:
Wisq: didn’t they just rectify the perverse incentive by adding a strong disincentive?
03/09/2009 at 17:08 Dante says:
I have never idled, cheated or farmed my way to any TF2 items. I’ve managed to get all the weapons, but no hats. I will wear my Halo with pride dammit!
03/09/2009 at 17:10 paddytehpyro says:
@ Stick oh so true :D
03/09/2009 at 17:13 CJohnson03 says:
This all makes me laugh very, very hard.
Oh-ho. Oh-ho.
03/09/2009 at 17:15 CJohnson03 says:
Also, I enjoy it when I do nothing, yet get free hats.
Gentlemen…
03/09/2009 at 17:28 The Innocent says:
My opinion to those who have a problem with halos:
Chill.
03/09/2009 at 17:31 kwyjibo says:
Yay! My first hat!
Valve should clamp down on the idling too – No activity? No drops.
03/09/2009 at 17:37 Nero68 says:
Well at least I finally got my first hat (Halo). Too bad TF2 has been running like crap the last few months to it being almost unplayable for some reason.
Though I still like TF2 I think I enjoyed it best when it didn’t have unlocks or hats.
03/09/2009 at 17:43 Frankie The Patrician[PF] says:
A halo? Oh my, cool….and I may upset some (insert-your-favourite-prefix-here)tards.,,YAY
03/09/2009 at 17:48 Lafinass says:
It’s also interesting to note that this only punishes the people who used the idle program between August 31st and September 2nd. I know a few of the duplicates in my backpack were from the week or so I tried out the idle program before I decided I really didn’t care about hats, but I still got a halo. In an update on the 31st they added a ‘CheatDetector’ to items.ctx that must have have been the flag.
03/09/2009 at 17:49 Corion says:
I like how the people using the idling tool are acting like they didn’t know that what they were doing was cheating or that they somehow put A TON OF WORK into getting their items. All they did was run a program and leave their computer on.
It’s not like they had no warning: http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2293
Of course, Valve needs to cut back on external applications for other reasons too, like the possibility that people could have their steam accounts stolen.
In addition, players using a program like that would be skewing any data Valve has about user play time and the average hats per user. If nobody had idled then Valve would probably have realized sooner that the hats were far too rare.
03/09/2009 at 18:09 Paul Moloney says:
“I know that hats are pointless”
I’m only you had just left it at that.
P.
03/09/2009 at 18:11 Brass Gerbil says:
This doesn’t even qualify as a tempest in a teapot. More like piss swirling in a petri dish.
03/09/2009 at 18:13 l1ddl3monkey says:
What’s the difference between these two arguments:
Playing World of Warcraft encourages satanism because some players practice necromancy and stuff.
Playing TF prmotes Christianity because it has a halo in it for “good” people.
Answer: there is no difference, but it’s fun to watch people chew their own faces off with rage when you point that out.
Right – I’ll get back under me bridge now…
03/09/2009 at 18:57 Professor says:
Well, thanks for treating me like shit valve, repeatedly.
I guess I’ll still buy your games cause I’m not a man of ideals.
03/09/2009 at 18:57 Joe says:
“Atheists are angry because it’s Christian propaganda”
Correction: one troll pretending to be an atheist was angry. Everyone else in that thread just called the troll out.
Also, comment-writers: equating atheists with the fundamentalists they oppose is fallacious. And lazy!
03/09/2009 at 19:22 Wisq says:
@Dan: No, the perverse incentive was for people to idle. Using an external lightweight application was just the natural extension of that, since it was the most efficient way to do so.
Idling now requires that you actually run TF2 and join an idle server, but aside from that, they’ve done nothing to discourage it. In fact, by including achievement_idle idlers in their list of people who get halos, they’ve effectively condoned the practice.
Don’t forget that the whole point of Valve adding hats was to get people excited about them so they would play more in anticipation. When combined with a reward algorithm that rewards more disruptive kind of gameplay, the result is fairly predictable, yet they seem to act all shocked that people don’t do things the way they intended. They did it before with achievement-based unlocks, and they’ve done it again with random (i.e. playtime-based) unlocks.
So effectively, they created a grey zone in the rules, created a strong incentive to stray into the grey zone, and then punished one group of people in the grey zone while rewarding the other group. And the group that got punished was arguably the group that was less disruptive to the TF2 community.
Really, the backlash doesn’t surprise me. What surprises me is that Valve continually fails to see this sort of thing coming.
03/09/2009 at 19:35 heroic zero says:
@PaulMorel: “I know that hats are pointless, but that is still a huge slap in the face.”
So, a pointless slap in the face, then? Why let it bother you?
03/09/2009 at 19:38 John says:
The only thing that disappoints me is that the news post was not written by the announcer.
03/09/2009 at 19:44 Wisq says:
@heroic zero: A pointless slap in the face still hurts, and is arguably worse than being slapped in the face for a good reason. :)
03/09/2009 at 19:47 CJohnson03 says:
Actually some hats are very pointy indeed.
03/09/2009 at 19:48 CoyoteTheClever says:
The guy might have been an atheist or might have not, but he was likely 100% facetious when he said that. I suppose it is a good excuse for people to hate on us evil atheist though.
03/09/2009 at 20:15 frymaster says:
“If they had told people from the beginning not to use the program and to sit on the idle servers with the official tf2 client, people would have done that.”
pretty sure that’s in the terms & conditions for use of steam. so you were told, at worst, when you installed the game, and chances are you were told before you bought it
03/09/2009 at 21:13 Tyrone Slothrop says:
This is one of the many reasons why I love Valve.
03/09/2009 at 21:31 Devan says:
Well, this thread is so long I may as well add to it.
That halo is my only hat so far, but it looks like the drops will become more frequent now. So, that’s great!
I guess the main thing valve “should’ve” done differently with this is to officially state that those 3rd party apps are not permissible. Then they could wait for another month before doing this. They’d still nab a whole bunch of people, but not the ones who thought it was okay.
03/09/2009 at 22:14 Vandelay says:
@Devan – Take a look at Corion’s post and the link he provides (this one if you can’t be bothered to find the post http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2293)
They did give warning.
03/09/2009 at 22:27 ChampionHyena says:
I’m gonna just tuck this in at the end here.
I used the idler. Didn’t really see the harm in it, all told. I wanted a shiny new hat, that’s all. Especially since they’ve been dangled in front of us for so long, and there’s never been any way to trade for ‘em or anything like that, even though there’s supposed to be.
Introduced some friends to it, especially friends who didn’t have a ton of time to devote to TF2, but felt a little left out of all this alternate weapon business.
Then Valve pulled the plug. That’s totally within their rights. Take away all the items I got from it? Sure, that’s fine. I’m sorry, I didn’t know. I won’t ever do anything like this again.
Then everybody else gets a free hat.
Except for me.
And all the friends I thought I was doing a nice thing for.
Now, I can’t say that I care WAY too much about items I’ll never have. I never got the Soldier’s special medal from that hidden update page, either. And unless they really ramp up the rate at which hats drop, there will probably always be ones I don’t have.
But my friends got roped into all of it because of me, and their opinion of me and their enjoyment of this great game got dinged just a little bit.
I loaded up TF2 today. Seeing those halos on everyone, constantly reminding me that I fucked up, was irritating, certainly.
Being reminded that I fucked things up for other people, well… that makes me want to stop playing TF2. Not because I resent being told that I made a mistake. It just doesn’t feel good to be labeled the bad guy after you did something you thought was nice.
03/09/2009 at 23:13 zak canard says:
I didn’t use the idler and although I have the halo I’m not going to be using it in some circumstances. At the moment it would appear a side effect of wearing the halo as a spy is that you’re visible to the enemy whilst cloaked and disguised thanks to the glow effect.
03/09/2009 at 23:28 Wisq says:
@Vandelay: That was warning not to use the external program to unlock achievements. That’s akin to hacking the game. The punishment was to take away the items for a week.
There was no warning not to use an external program to idle. That’s akin to idling in a real server, except without all the graphical stuff. The punishment was to take away the items forever, and give everyone else an item instead.
Completely different issues. The idler was a lesser ‘crime’ with a much harsher punishment.
03/09/2009 at 23:35 eyemessiah says:
“Take a bunch of people in real life.”
I’m pretty sure this isn’t real life.
IMO people having the kind of reaction you are describing are over-invested in the game and should probably go out for a walk or something.
Some guys got a pointless halo, some other guys didn’t get a pointless halo. Some guys who were “playing” the game for “rewards” in a way that everyone recognised to be against the grain of the designers intent lost said “rewards”.
Shrug?
03/09/2009 at 23:54 Vandelay says:
@Wisq – For us as players, those that use an external program to unlock achievements is much worse than those that use an external program to unlock some cosmetic hats. But, in the eyes of Valve someone is still using an external program to effectively hack their game.
I’m fairly certain that either one will be breaking the EULA we all agree to when we install the game and technically Valve probably have every right to end that agreement and remove those players from the game entirely. I’m not suggesting they should do that, but removing some ill gotten items seems like a perfectly reasonable punishment under the circumstances.
04/09/2009 at 00:11 Professor says:
Valve don’t know how to handle their shit. And now all these smug bastards get to wave their morality fingers at me, as if there was anything immoral about just wanting to get a hat.
Go to hell, the lot of you.
And go to hell valve. You’re taking a lot of steps down the wrong road.
04/09/2009 at 00:24 Stabby says:
I cut in line because I just wanted to get there sooner! What’s so wrong about that! I didn’t do anything wrong!
…
04/09/2009 at 00:30 abhishek says:
Go to hell, the lot of you.
But I have a halo, how can I go to hell? :P
Seriously though, why are you folks taking it as some personal insult on your morality. Do you take offense when someone snipes you and then his character says “Thanks for standing still, wanker“? Come on, you tried to game the system and got caught, no big deal and it’s not like you lost anything of value anyway.
04/09/2009 at 00:32 Professor says:
Cutting in line would be a good analogy if getting picked was made by random dice toss. I’ve seen people that played for 5 minutes get a hat, while I waited to get my first bloody unlock. You and I both know that idling meant nothing because the probabilities of you getting a hat were stupid anyway. Out of 10,000 players on a server, roughly 1 would get a hat every minute.
I am highly against this method of dangling stuff in front of you and then just telling you “oh wait, you can’t have that, you’re gonna have to earn it through some stupid system over which you have no control!”
And then, when people have had enough of being teased and do something, end up getting punished in the result. That’s just vindictive. I don’t understand why it’d kill valve to not just give us a hat if we wanted one so bad. How’s about any person that doesn’t have a hat in his inventory get one, whether he unlocked or not. Is that so wrong?
No, you know it’s not. But now you can enjoy yourself with the hat that I so desperately wanted. Hurray for you.
04/09/2009 at 01:15 abhishek says:
It’s a hat. It’s just a hat. Get a grip and move on already.
04/09/2009 at 01:19 Vinraith says:
I’ve got no stake in this, but I think the objection is not so much the hat as the sense of being scolded out of the blue for the kind of abuse Valve has always previously turned a blind eye to. Playing the system to collect items has never concerned them before, after all. I think it’s reasonable for people to be a bit surprised at the sudden and arbitrary intervention, and understandable for them to be irrate with what amounts to a public shaming over it.
04/09/2009 at 02:53 Psychopomp says:
Oh, GET OFF IT.
They only took away items, you got via the idle program. You got off easy.
Get over yourselves.
They’re not “going down the wrong path.” Going down the wrong path would be to take away every last item an idler had, without warning. This is your warning. They can’t say “don’t use the idler anymore, mmkay,” without taking away your ill gotten gains.
And the idler program *is* different from idle servers. In an idle server, your computer is indisposed. You have to go do something else. With the idle program, you’ve sacrificed none of your system resources. Does it not seem a little strange to you, to be getting items in TF2, whilst you play L4D?
The system is flawed, yes. That doesn’t give you a right to go around the system.
If you really think this is “Valve pissing all over their customers,” or “going down a bad path,” you need some god damn perspective.
04/09/2009 at 04:33 Wisq says:
Ultimately, it’s the customers (i.e. players) who decide whether they feel they’ve been “pissed all over” or not. And while I’m annoyed by Valve’s decision, I’m hardly one of the most pissed off, judging from their forums and even the occasional comment here.
Sure, a lot of these people are going to continue playing TF2 anyway, whatever they say about hating Valve. But Valve has repeatedly handled the unlockables issue so poorly that I fear they may be burning much of the goodwill they’ve accumulated over the years.
In light of that, this latest decision seems completely nuts, as if they’re trying to damage the TF2 community, or at least drive out a good portion of it.
And yes, it does seem weird that they can release free stuff for ages, but when there are some flaws in that free stuff, everyone is suddenly outside waving torches and pitchforks. But, that’s just how our minds work. We accept gifts much easier than we accept losses, and we’re very quick to reassess those gifts if we come to mistrust the giver.
04/09/2009 at 05:13 Collic says:
@Vinrath, there actually is a precedent for this. Items have taken away before when users used an external program to unlock achievements so they could get in-game weapons.
Those items were removed
Read the tf2blog, the post is still there : http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2293.
To anyone who had their items taken away, just note the above; it’s happened before so I don’t know why you’re all so shocked.
04/09/2009 at 05:18 Vinraith says:
Interesting. Well, at least there’s a clear pattern to follow: “Cheat all you want, abuse all you want, but don’t use any external programs to do so.”
It’s important to have priorities.
04/09/2009 at 05:53 Psychopomp says:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958194
04/09/2009 at 09:06 RogB says:
@John says:
The only thing that disappoints me is that the news post was not written by the announcer.
oh man that would have been superb. Her condescending headmistress tones would have humiliated the whining idlers even more!
I love the nerdrage. To anyone still grinding teeth about this, just think about it. You COULD have been banned. Instead, you cannot have ONE HAT. think about the difference, its hardly the end of the world is it?
04/09/2009 at 13:58 People=Stupid says:
How the hell its cheating or abusing to play on idle servers? IMO idle servers are the best servers there are, I’ve had most of my fun in TF2 only in idle servers. And If people like to idle in idle servers let them do that. Don’t know about idling in normal servers, haven’t really seen that, but most games autokick or change you to spec if you just stand there idling. About achievement servers: If people want to get achievements let them do that on achievement servers, ‘cos at least then they are not trying to whore those achievements in normal games. So Idle servers and achievementservers are just a good thing.
04/09/2009 at 23:54 BlazerKnight says:
This is hilarious. We’re talking about virtual hats that don’t affect gameplay. And it’s creating frothing rage on par with WoW class nerfing. Don’t sink to that level, fellow TF2 players!
05/09/2009 at 16:50 Wirbelwind says:
This isn’t cheating. It’s similar to connecting to a server running mods. A mod that is light on system resources for one.
The system for gaining hats is precisely (and I mean 100.00 % precisely) the same as connecting to achievement_idle servers. It’s not different in any way. No hats faster, no hats slower, no bonuses.
06/09/2009 at 02:44 Kirrus says:
Have to agree with BlazerKnight.. the hats are a “1″ in a file, on a computer somewhere. Really not that important, at the end of the day.
At least they didn’t strip all of the items, or start putting out bans…
06/09/2009 at 02:47 Kirrus says:
Before anyone moans that I’ve been comment spamming, I’m sitting waiting for a hard-drive to be partitioned, in a datacentre, at 02:45 in the morning. bored a little.
The up side is I My excuse is I walked past RPS’s server a couple of times tonight, so decided to actually comment on the site a bit more than usual :)
12/09/2009 at 06:56 Krupo says:
@Kirrus, that comment is so meta, I’m not going to bother saying anything about the actual topic here… aside from saying perhaps I should return to TF2 after leaving it alone for a few months. :)
28/04/2010 at 23:35 PinoyPogiman says:
LOL, notice the pic….scouts hand is in the scatter gun. AND HORNS!!!! thats way cooler than the halo. in my opinion, the halo makes the characters in TF2 look like angels(OF COURSE ITS A HALO) but that isnt really the whole point of the characters, well im not saying tf2 is a demon worshiping game, it just makes the tf2 characters look kinda peaceful especially the medic