The RPS Cup: Unlucky Number 13

By Kieron Gillen on September 18th, 2009 at 9:37 pm.

HE'S GREASED LIGHTNING

Violence, treachery, controversy, cheese-on-cocktail sticks. You can be sure of all of the above if you put two teams of Skaven on the same Blood Bowl pitch. We got it all, but doubled up on the controversy and left the cheesy nibbles behind.

More’s the pity.

Before we get to all the on-pitch horror, a quick plug. If you bought the game with its release now, and are interested in joining one of the new RPS leagues, they’re currently recruiting in the forums. The first has been filled, but another is filling up now. Part of me suspects there may end up being a third, depending. And I double-double stress, while it’s clear I like the game a lot, do remember the down-sides I’m talking about. If I didn’t like the core game as much as I do, I wouldn’t be as forgiving as a lot of the elements. I haven’t even done the Tackle Zone Rant yet.

Anyway – Unlucky 13 and their coach Axler. They’re unknown to me. I haven’t played Axler before. They’re a newish team – not totally inexperienced, but nowhere as near as skilled as the Blighters. This should abstractly be a walkover. There’s a couple of things which put me off thinking that. Firstly, over-confidence kills. Secondly, Axler is actually third in the league before we play the game. He’s won matches. He clearly knows what he’s doing.

The Unlucky 13 are an interesting team too. He’s developed them far less Gutter-runner-centrically than I have – which implies that he’s been playing them smarter than I was in the earlier days. He’s also named most of them amusingly. Rabies is the star Stormvermin, who has Mighty Blow (In short: Good for hurting people) and Guard (In short: Good for letting other people hurt people), which suggests a certain brawling style. There’s two more injured stars – Stormvermin Typhoid and two-headed Gutter-runner Syphiylis, which saddens me, because I won’t be able to write “I managed to catch Syphilis” in this write up. The other two star Gutter Runners are The Brothers Scratcha (Ball and Arse, who have agility 5 and Wrestle respectively). The former I expect to be a runner, and the latter a safety of some kind. Finally, there’s Bubonic Plague, the star thrower, who’s picked up Accuracy, implying a little more attention to moving the ball aerially than me.

What to expect? A little more violence? Some manner of aerial game? All I know is that it’ll be fast, because when you have 22 skaven on a pitch, the game fucking motors.

I’m right on all counts.

Yeah, this was an optimistically aggressive set up by me

He gets just shy of 670,000 gold on inducements, which he spends on mercenaries, re-rolls and – important for the course of the future game – referee bribes. He loses the toss and kicks to me. I try to steal a quick one. My Wrestler Lhytz drags a hole for Nurgut to run through, deep into the half. Despite a little support, a block comes in and ends up in Nurgut getting knocked down… and killed. In the first turn, I’m forced to use my apothecary re-roll, which ends up in giving a serious injury, meaning he’d miss the game. I have to play the rest of the game without the luxury of any cushion against decapitation. Erk.

Ball bounces of play, and is thrown to the far left by the crowd and retrieved by the Unlucky 13. He cages on the half-way line and safety-gutter-runner Stricut goes in and punches the ball free, which goes out of touch again. This time it gets thrown towards the touchline, which allows Sneek to retrieve the ball and run it in. It’s a two turn touchdown, despite the turnovers. That’s a Skaven game for you.

I set up aggressively and roll a lucky perfect kick to his bottom field. Bubonic Plague does something that completely puzzles me – rather than working forward, he runs towards his own touchline. Isn’t that a touch risky? The melee in the center kicks off, with some brutalisation on the left. That said, my macho Linesrat Rhiite Wring manages to get a scalp for his belt and Sneek uses his extra-speed to actually reach – though not attack – Bubonic Plague.

It doesn’t matter. He dodges around it and passes it beautifull upfield, only for the Gutter-runner to have a bad moment and drop the ball. Stormvermin Kreeite Wring retrieves it and leads the charge back up field, managing to get the ball in. 2-0.

John Walker is going to be PUNCHED IN THE HEAD

I kick again, though without my kicker – because he had his head kicked in. The ball ends much nearer the centre-line this time… but Bubonic Plague still runs back away from me. I finally realise what the tactic is. You can throw once and pass off once in a turn. So if you have someone on the half way line, someone half-way into my half and someone at the baseline, you can chain the moves so the ball heads from one end to the other. You need to be able to throw and able to hand of – and since he’s got a better thrower, it’s less of a risk. I try to counter, catching the thrower before he can throw, but the rolls fall apart. I turn over, and then Sneek takes a fist to the head. Or, perhaps, through his head, because he dies. Scorer-and-speedster, the youngest rat on the team Sneek is the first of the Gutter Runners to suffer a fatality. I barely notice when the ball’s ran in.

The match goes even darker. With two turns until the half, I receive the kick and punch through to the left, setting up a pocket on the right to defend. But before I can actually advance the ball there, I hit the end-turn. Once again, I pray to Khorne for a bloody revenge to whoever at Cyanide who thought the idea of floating that button over the playing area was a good idea.

Axler offers to end his turn. I say no. Before I can explain why, he ends his turn without moving anyone. It’s the last turn in the half, so I calmly move the ball forward, hand-off and run the ball in.

WTF? asks Axler, understandably.

Tension.

“I said you shouldn’t move anyone you’ve already moved in the turn you ended” he said (I paraphrase).

I say… well, I didn’t agree to it. In fact, I didn’t even understood what he had meant. I don’t know what I’d have done if I had saw it. Me not to move anyone I hadn’t already moved would be ending the half with giving up my chance to score. I’d rather he had took his turn, because there was a chance I could have got the goal. By paralyzing my players for another turn, that was gone.

On the other hand, it was a generous act. As the half ends – with Rat Ogre John Walker getting a gouged eye, so missing the next match – I try to offer a compromise. It ends up with me letting his team to run in a touchdown in a couple of turns, bringing the score to 3-2 in turn 10.

Who was right? I don’t know. I suspect no-one was in the wrong, except the person who put the button there. Who is very wrong indeed.

John Walker PUNCHED IN THE HEAD.

The kick is hilariously short – as are the number of competent players I actually have on my side, I realise, as every single able vermin is on the pitch. It’s retrieved by Stricut, and thrown a whole square which – even with a re-roll – the high-agility Gutter-runner manages to drop (It’s meant to be a 1-in-36 chance, but is it really? My betailed posterior). Herpes gets the ball, but Stricut – who’s working really hard this match – strips it from him, allowing the two-headed Lhuit to retrieve it. The strength-one hero gets blocked by a chain of six people, none of who manage to bring him down. He zooms to the other side of the pitch, picking up a couple of protective guards.

Axler’s turn ends when someone’s tripped earlier, and I’m in the position to score. I’m hungry for blood though – there’s so many hurt skaven, it’s getting embarassing – so throw some punches before I do so. Greed doesn’t pay as a linesrat breaks his own ribs when starting a fight, allowing the Lucky 13 defence to catch up with my attack. They fail to get the ball, but I end up having to hand-off the ball back to Lhuit – he’d given it a linerat the turn before, so he could get the glory – so the nippy chap could show off his nimble skills. Still 4-2.

The delay actually was probably for the best – it ate a little more off the clock, as Lucky 13 receive the ball on what’s probably going to be last drive of the game. He’s only got one turn to claw back a score and – through a series of blocks which he uses to indirectly push his gutter runner near enough my goal to run and score, would have pulled it off if it wasn’t for a failed pass not ending up the ball.

Whistle blows. It’s 4-2 to the Blighters… but 5-2 to the Unlucky 13 in terms of ratling pain.

This is actually before the end of the match. Someone else got fucked up bad too.

The luck division was interesting to watch – any injury rolls, he did spectacularly. Any rolls other than injuries, he faltered. To give an idea of how badly the Blighters were hammered, before I advance my players, the team value is 1310. At the beginning of the match, it was 1810. He’s dropped me 500 points in hurtage. Still, the fragile-yet-fabulous Lhuit hits level 5, making him a star, and picking up Sure Hands – as I feel I need someone better at retrieving the ball. Oh – and I hire a Gutter Runner to fill the hole caused when Sneek got buried in a hole. After this bashing, I decide I have to toughen up. Kreeite Wring, Strormvermin Scorer, finally hits level 2, picking up Guard and the already-strong Rhiite Wring picks up block, basically turning him into a strong, slow Blitzer.

I regret those choices when I have a glance of the team roster of who’s next. It’s the Wood Elf Green Mist and they’re really not the skills I should have brought.

, .

47 Comments »

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  1. Wookie_Wookstar (Big D) says:

    THis is late, should have come today in the post! :( Not happy, maybe tomorrow then!?

    Looking forward to it!

  2. Railick says:

    Good write up as always. Very bloody match. I played a norse vs ratz games last night and it ended up much the same way with his rat ogre murdering 2 of my best players and injurying 3 of them even though I beat him. That 7 armor value is a beotch :(

  3. Jacques says:

    Another great read, I should really get this game, although I never played the TT version so I imagine I’ll suck at it.

    Makes me wish other GW specialist games had video game adaptations, oh Mordheim, how I miss thee.

  4. Earl_of_Josh says:

    Intense game, looking forward to playing a few in the proving league (got into the first one, yay!). I’m, er, kinda counting on beginners luck though.

    If anyone’s interested in a One-off game or two let me know (fyi I’m one of those EST guys, but I was born that way so you can’t hold it against me).

  5. [21CW] 2000AD says:

    Why is the “End Turn” button causing so much of a problem? Unless there’s some custom UI I don’t know about, it’s right at the top of the screen in the middle, the only thing of use that it’s in a fixed position close to is the menu button. And it’s hardly a massive button (Unless it;s size is linked to resolution in which case I might have a smaller one as I play at high res).
    The only way I can think of to accidently click it is if your moving/passing to a point far up field, but then all you have to do is scroll up a bit first so that your target is away from the button.

    • Vinraith says:

      It’s got to be a passing team problem. I usually play dwarves (who can’t pass to save their stumpy little lives) and I’ve never had this problem. With a team that actually CAN throw a ball that far down field, however, I can see how it might be an issue.

  6. Kieron Gillen says:

    Are you the Blood Bowl UI designer?

    EDIT: Okay, that’s too mean. Your answer’s in the question: “You can Scroll the pitch”. Why should I be scrolling the pitch? I can see everything from where I am. If I’m playing deep – with team split between heading towards the scoreline and some at the halfway point, watching both at once is what I’d like to do with the minimum of effort. But the deeper you go, the more you get closer to the button. It’s especially true when – as a Skaven – you can score from the halfway line.

    KG

    • Wookie_Wookstar (Big D) says:

      Damn KG, I liked it when you guys highlighted the writers responce so I knew which posts to take note of! :P That going to come back?

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      I honestly dunno.

    • Railick says:

      I miss that as well. I didn’t even notice you were posting without seeing your old Gravatar and bright goldness :(

    • [21CW] 2000AD says:

      LOL, no. But the only problems I’ve had with pressing the end turn button is when I realise I forgot to act with a player or two, can’t think of any time I pressed it without meaning to.
      That said it would be nice to have a warning of “You haven’t acted with X players, are you sure you want to end your turn?” to avoid both accidental endings and forgetful minds. Maybe this is the game designers way of getting something like the “You forgot to move your turn marker, use a re-roll or end your turn” level of harshness from the tabletop.
      Maybe implement something like that. If you click by mistake or realise you forgot to act with a player, then before the opponent acts you can expend a re-roll to go back to your turn with some limited time (30s-1min?) and correct your mistake.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      I think there’s a strong argument that if you haven’t actually moved any team members yet, it should check “Are you sure Y/N”. That’s a general rule though.

      I also think the specific problem would disappear is *the end turn button wasn’t placed over the playing area”. I mean, it’s not as if the UI designer had a problem with filling the side of the screen with buttons.

      KG

    • [21CW] 2000AD says:

      ” I mean, it’s not as if the UI designer had a problem with filling the side of the screen with buttons.”

      Good point.

    • Vinraith says:

      If you miss RPSers having their comments highlighted, go grab jsutcliffe’s greasemonkey script and in addition to larger gravatars and a sensible page width, you also get RPS author comments in blindingly unmissable pink-ish. I highly recommend it.

      http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/57887

    • Lu-Tze says:

      The major problem I find with the End Turn button is that when I try to click off to deselect, I tend to just flick the cursor to the top middle of the screen. Which is where the button is.

      I don’t even know why there needs to be a button, there should be a button per player that says “ok, i’m done with this person” so you can just leave them there doing their job.

    • Wisq says:

      Yeah, “End Turn” isn’t really causing any problems for me either, but I can see how a confirmation would help. Overall, the UI has been generally decent for my tastes, although I wish the player stats rollovers would come up a little quicker. And the replays… Yeah, I really need a zoomed-out can’t-see-anything-anyway replay of some guy fouling a downed player.

      The biggest UI error, in my opinion, is on the PSP version I tried. I’m pretty sure there was a miscommunication somewhere, because while both the PC and PSP versions have a button marked “save” on the “position your players” screen, the PC version saves formations and the PSP version saves the game, forcing you to set up every time. A pretty serious omission, but not apparent at a glance. But this is a PC blog, so I’ll shut up now. :)

      BTW, am I the only one that actually likes that the new site layout has the text all in a narrow column? Shorter lines = easier to read. Just ask the newspapers.

  7. Railick says:

    Jacques you could always try Fumbbl to see if you like the general game and if you do enjoy it go ahead and get the new game. It’s pretty much the same thing though some of the rules are a bit diffrent.

  8. Yargh says:

    I really really want to play this game with you guys, but the 90mn at a time commitment and the necessary scheduling scare me as I can never tell what I’ll be doing in advance…

  9. EGTF says:

    I feel sorry for everyone who hasn’t got it yet, damn postage strike. Amusingly I haven’t recieved any of the essential documents I need for uni but recieved blood bowl in said post on thursday.

    I love it, and haven’t even touched blitz mode yet. It feels good to be using tactics and a high degree of randomness, and the turnover is at once both great and frustrating. If they got rid of it for failing to pick the ball up I’d be very happy, as Dwarves are too drunk to bend over and pick something off the floor it seems.

  10. Hmm-Hmm. says:

    Hmm. I can’t wait to give it a go in a couple of days. It should be heading my way now.

  11. eyemessiah says:

    I for one like the lack of goldyness. Its more egalitarian. We are all brothers now.

    I’m constantly tempted to rebuy and get some frail welfs on the go again. That said, I think that probability isn’t for me. I find the random element galling, and can’t quite get behind it being a game about playing the odds.

    If they ever patch in a slider that allows you to push the probabilities toward a median I’d be there in a shot.

    That said I’d rather that the devs concentrated on a “end turn y/n” button, displaying tackle zone targets more clearly and improving mechanical transparency generally.

  12. Dante says:

    I’m guessing KG plays the game totally zoomed out, rather than at the default angle, so the top few squares are covered by end turn, right?

  13. TooNu says:

    Is/does BloodBowl:
    – Hindered by any bugs/glitches that make the game miserable to play at times?
    – Just like the tabletop version, minatures and all WITH mutations on your players?
    – Have team color and logo customisation?

    Please, thanks, cheers.
    TooNu

    • Janek says:

      - As far as I can tell, the ingame part is fairly bug free, with the exception of purchased equipment in Blitz mode. But there are a ton of really annoying things about the UI, and the multiplayer connectivity can be a real pain. That part is particularly galling, as they fixed it two patches ago, before breaking it again. Whoops!

      – When you get a mutation, it is represented on the player’s model, yes.

      – You can choose team colours, but the choice of logo is only chosen out of stock options.

  14. Simon says:

    So, where can you actually buy this in the USA? Amazon.com, Gamestop.com, EBGames.com, Direct2Drive, Steam – none of them seem to have it.

    • Simon says:

      To answer my own question.. allegedly, it is coming to Steam this month. I say allegedly because I can’t actually find a developer announcement stating this as fact, only word of mouth on various forums.

      Think I’ll wait for that if it’s true, paying $50 to download it from some company I’ve never heard of before doesn’t strike me as a good idea.

    • malkav11 says:

      It’s not currently available in the US. At least, not technically. You can, however, obtain an import disc copy from GoGamer.com. I’m not sure what they charge normally, but it was $30 for me during one of their Madness sales.

  15. Kieron Gillen says:

    And it’s not the full game yet – about half the teams aren’t in it (Halfling, Ogre, Khemri, Vampire, Amazon, Norse, etc). Dark Elves and Undead are, apparently, going to be patched in shortly.

    KG

  16. TooNu says:

    Thankyou for the replies :)
    I would only remake my goblin team anyway, sneaky cheap dirty gitz!

  17. kwanchu says:

    \i bought it from the company, cyanide straight up and there was no hassle at all. Got the game and started playing it SP and quickly realied how much i suck at Football or maybe its the game but most undoubtably its my own lack of anything to do with sports. I love the game, but i suck at it. I would hate it if i have to watch Canadian football to figure out how everything works.

    • Simon says:

      It is tempting me, $50 seems like a lot but I am a huge fan of turn based games, even if it is football :)

      Thing is, I assume the league gets played in UK time which wouldn’t work for me.

  18. Inferno says:

    Sounds like you abused a person act of kindness in this game. IFrom the way you wrote it, it’s your fault! I call for a rematch.

  19. Kieron Gillen says:

    Yeah, me too, a bit.

    Except I didn’t want it and it was an act of kindness whose primary effect was to stop me from scoring. If he’d taken his turn, there was a chance of him not being able to deal with the skaven in his half. If he didn’t, and I wasn’t allowed to move them, I had no chance of scoring before the time-limit.

    (Any other turn? I may have said differently. I suspect not. It’s a game with a time-limit and my tactics involve pressing really hard against it)

    KG

  20. Vinraith says:

    Either 1) don’t zoom out or 2) if you do zoom out, rotate the pitch (which makes it align better with a wide screen monitor anyway). I do a bit of both, and have never once hit the end turn button by accident (and indeed, if it weren’t for these discussions, it would never have occurred to me that anyone could manage such a thing).

  21. Dan(WR) says:

    I’m surprised there aren’t more complaints about this game. I haven’t been able to sink that much time into it yet, but my impressions are that Cyanide had a great set of core rules to work with and they went and built a clumsy, messy interface around it. My chief initial gripe (aside from some of the worst tutorials I’ve ever come across) is that I’m not getting enough feedback on the dice rolls and their effects – the log window information is truncated and fugly.

    Loving the match write-ups though.

  22. Simon says:

    I too find it a bit hard to grasp exactly what happened sometimes but (after about 3 hours of playing) I’m really enjoying it. Hoping a ‘proving ground c’ will open up at some point, although I am absolutely terrible right now.

  23. Axler says:

    Hmm must have missed this before, look mum I’m on the internetz! :D. With the benefit of hindsight I should have probably waited a little more before I ended my turn I had 4 minutes to decide so there was no real need to rush into it. But fair play KG gave me a TD the next half so all was well.

    The thing is with the end turn button is that it disappears whilst your player is moving. So if for example you were trying to click on a opposition player down the pitch to ensure that you had for example moved out of blitzing range of a Wardancer the button has a nasty habit of reappearing under your mouse just as you click.

    Yeah Unlucky Number 13 do seem to be living up to their name when it comes to ball handling rolls and knocking over the ball carrier, blocking a 1 str Gutter with 6 different people with out knocking him over for example. But on the other hand they do seem to excel at hurting people/rats. I may need to look at my tactics to try and limit the amount of rolls I need to make inorder to move the ball around.

    But it was a good game all said so nice one KG.

  24. Inferno says:

    I would honestly like to see a video of the next game you play just to se how the game plays out. Plus I love skaven,

  25. Mungrul says:

    I picked this up Friday, and initially started out loving it, playing single player in easy mode to learn the ropes. Unfortunately, I’ve ended up hating just how random it is. On easy, spending most of yesterday playing it, I think I won a grand total of 2 games out of about 20. In the end I got so pissed off I ended up downloading BBEdit and completely overpowering my team, which left me feeling rather empty.

    Without BBEdit, I found that while other teams started to progress, because I was losing most of the time, my money between games was incredibly limited, further hampering my progress and making me lose more. A nasty downward spiral that I couldn’t see a way out of. Even worse, I found I couldn’t repeat cups in campaign mode, making me advance to harder cups, thereby making me lose even more, pissing me off even more. And this was in EASY mode.

    I probably chose the wrong team to begin with; I went Chaos, calling my team Random Chants. While they’re great at hurting people, I found they had problems actually hitting people in the first place due to every other team seemingly having dodge or block as innate abilities, meaning my beastmen and chaos warriors hardly ever got to stamp on floored opponents.
    Add on top of that a minotaur who’s okay when upright, but consistently fails his “Wild Animal” roll when he’s on the floor (seriously, one match he failed the roll FOUR TIMES IN A ROW and refused to get up), and I got very jaded very quickly.

    Some random elements in games are nice. But I think Blood Bowl may be a tad too random.

    I’ll try again, and resist the urge to use BBEdit, but when you can’t even win the first league season you’re placed in on easy (worse, you consistently end up bottom of the pile), there’s little to keep you coming back.

  26. Kieron W says:

    Mungrul – There are a number of factors I can see that are limiting your chances, and only one of them is how good you are at the actual game. Chaos are a tricky team, possibly the hardest starting team in the game other than Goblins. Instead of starting with skills they have the opportunity for the most customisation in the game with their access to mutations, which means they shine at TV1500+ but will struggle to achieve anything that requires a dice roll until they gain some skills. In a format like the single-player where the value of othe teams rises, Chaos are probably best left until you know what you’re doing. Orcs and Humans are often touted as the best teams to learn the basics with because you get a bunch of skills and players with defined roles right off the bat.

    The Minotaur’s another interesting one. Opinion is split on Big Guys in general, as they give you extra hitting power but at the expense of reliability. Yeah, it’s nice to be able to frenzy two str5 blocks a turn, but he’s going to fall over a lot until he gets Block, and since he’s a Wild Animal he only gets up on 4+. As you’re seen, it’s easy to fail a few of those, which is incredibly frustrating. Be aware that just by having him on the pitch you’re introducing extra randomness into your game.

    The single-player on Easy is often the most challenging setting, thanks to Cyanide’s interesting take on AI. The degree of difficulty is reflected in how risky the opposition plays, with Easy meaning the AI will run, pass, and attempt suicidal dodges through multiple tackle zones. Hard means cages formed using most of the team, and a risk averse style that sometimes goes as far as moving the cage towards it’s own endzone to avoid tackle zones. This, coupled with the lack of any awareness of what turn it is, means that you’ll generally lose more games playing on Easy than Hard!

    Lastly, the random elements. Blood Bowl’s a game of probabilties, much like poker (I play both and it’s remarkable how similar the thinking is). You need to mitigate the effects of the dice as much as possible, so always plan your turn to make the least risky moves first, and generally the thought on your mind should be ‘What ‘s the worst thing that could happen from here?’ This isn’t ironcast, and changes according to what you’re trying to accomplish and what your opponent’s up to. This is the bit that takes practice, and I think it’s fair to say a reasonable amount. I’ve probably played 40 games against other people now, and I just about think I’m getting the hang of it. I still make stupid mistakes though, and occasionally they cost me games…

    • Mungrul says:

      Yeah, that’s all good advice Kieron W.
      Reading about a bit has revealed to me just how poor the in-game tutorial is; for example, it doesn’t highlight the importance of Fan Factor, which I’ve discovered is why I’m not getting much money between matches.
      Also, it looks like I’m better off with a starting line-up consisting entirely of Beastmen and spending cash on re-rolls and FF.
      I’ll give it another shot, but one thing I can think of right off the bat that would have improved the game: pre-defined team templates, noob-friendly so you don’t end up rogering your team before you’ve even started.
      I’ll give other difficulties a shot too.

    • Vinraith says:

      Just to supplement, here are some useful resources. First, the actual Blood Bowl rules, because understanding these will get you further than any in game tutorial possibly could:

      http://www.bloodbowlonline.com/LivingRulebook5.pdf

      And then a couple of strategy and game information resources, which should usually be able to answer any particular questions and provide some useful “what am I doing wrong?” type advice.

      http://www.blood-bowl.net/

      http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/

  27. Kieron Gillen says:

    I’d just worry about re-rolls if I were you. You’ll want to start with 4 as a Chaos. I’d avoid the minotaur, but I think entirely dismissing Chaos Warriors is probably a mistake. At the very least, it’s not much fun to just play a team who are all one character type to start with.

    KG

  28. Dude says:

    Mungrul, I play chaos in most of the league (irl) that I have played, it is true that chaos will strugle at the start. You need to plan your team carefully.
    I like to start with 8 beast, 2 warriors and a minotaur. The rest is for apoth and rerolls (not much obviously). With this team you can bring a lot of hurt to your opponnent but it is a risky team as you just enough mens on the pitch. You also don't get that many rerolls obviously. But even with Wild Beast, the minotaur is going to be something they can't ignore.
    Another one would be to take 2-3 warriors and 8-9 beastmen. I wouldn't pass on the warrior to be honest, they are slow but they will be usefull. Buy warriors and you can always add the minotaur later.
    The thing you really need to be carefull for is being outrun by the oponnent, once they are in your half if you are too forward they will score without a problem. Leave one or 2 beastman to cover the back, if they punch through your defense it should taken them a turn or so to score (running team… hate them), use your back beastmen to blitz anything that went through, with the +1 STR on blitz (that is if you move before blocking), you will usually block on 2 dice against them.
    Otherwise my tactic is basic chaos theory, block everything you can, try hurting them and once the number are in your favor go and score! Also, a chaos cage with a few warriors is really some hard nut to break…

  29. Dog Pants says:

    You can create your own logos too, although unless your opponent takes a copy of them they’ll just see a default. There’s a guide , which I’ve tried and works.

  30. Premium User Badge

    Dolphan says:

    Mungrul – don't buy fan factor. I imagine what you've been reading was about the previous edition of the rules, not the latest one used in the game, in which its effect has been reduced.

  31. Malibu Stacey says:

    Best price I’ve seen for the game is £25 (play.com, GAME, gameplay etc). Tempting but I think I’ll wait for it to drop a little at retail and/or appear on Steam (which according to this should be sooner rather than later). Hopefully by the time I get myself a copy it’ll have been updated with the extra races someone mentioned above (and numerous ‘enhancements’ too).

    I really like the sound of the Skaven from Kieron’s posts. Never been into Warhammer much other than Dawn of War & it’s expansions (bit of an Eldar fan if I’m totally honest although actual Elves don’t have the same appeal strangely) but hyperviolent sports games always get me interested and when you add in the turn-based-ness (long time XCOM fanboy) it sounds like a lot of fun.