Comments on: Handle With Care: Gamer Homophobia

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By: The Colonel

The Colonel — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:19:11 +0000

Yeah ok I concede that point. I meant to say that if it's a joke made in the context of friends, then (presumably) it would be playing on the absurdness of using "gay" as an insult and sending out a very different message to the term used abusively about someone.

Regarding your point about Jew as an insult/joke, I'm not sure I really know where I stand. The real difference about "gay" is that it sits in the context of a society which was until recently actively and legislatively anti-gay. I would expect that there are unlikely to be many people in England suffering particularly for being Jewish.

I think the big problem with "gay" is that rather than being a joke playing on the outrageousness of the statement, as most of the time "Jews" is, it's just become a widely used synonym for "shit" et al.

Change my mind?

By: solipsistnation

solipsistnation — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:37:54 +0000

Anonymous Coward said:
Well said, solipsistnation. Unfortunately there are a frightening number of people who would answer ‘yes’ to your rhetorical question on the acceptibility of using ‘Jew’ as an insult. And the CS kids *are* doing it, or at least they were the last time I played.

Ah. Classy. I didn't know that because, honestly, I can't stand playing online with people I don't know, for basically that sort of reason.

By: MD

MD — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:23:09 +0000

Well said, solipsistnation. Unfortunately there are a frightening number of people who would answer ‘yes’ to your rhetorical question on the acceptibility of using ‘Jew’ as an insult. And the CS kids *are* doing it, or at least they were the last time I played. I think it might have begun as a supposedly ironic thing, and then spread like a virus to the armies of mindless youngsters and not-so-youngsters who aren’t happy unless their insult of choice is edgy and shocking, and hey if it spits on the memory of the worst atrocity in the history of humanity, that can only be a bonus right?

By: Klaus

Klaus — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:18:50 +0000

I don’t believe anyone called you a bigot or a racist. I am not against you saying whatever you like, I was just challenging your ‘words are just words’ claim. I frequently make use of all sorts of offensive slurs and terms (in ‘proper places’) but I do not pretend it’s ok or tell people to man up.

So yes, I recognize certain words hurt feelings. I recognize that people have a right to those feelings. I just place my ‘right’ to say those aforementioned words above their feelings without diminishing others of that same ‘right.’ And I recognize I may in fact just be an uncouth jerk.

By: Hug_dealer

Hug_dealer — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:21:14 +0000

Guess im a racist bigot then. better let my friends know.
I can understand where you guys are coming from, and i know what you are saying.
the insults only hurt when you give them power is a comment for those talking about every the kids on the net just randomly talking smack. Getting offended is a little silly.

By: solipsistnation

solipsistnation — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:26:10 +0000

The Colonel said:
The issue isn't using insults as a joke, especially when it's with/to your friends.

On some level, though, it is.

In fact, it's more than that– if "gay" (which is a simple description of a person; "you are white. you are a man. you are gay.") is used as an insult EVER it diminishes the validity of being gay everywhere. "Dude, that's so gay" is just as bad if it's between friends as it is between enemies or acquaintances or whatever. It emphasizes that there is a difference and that the difference is question is BAD– it's something that should be pointed out and labelled!

I had friends in high school who used "Jew" as an insult– like, "Man, you are SUCH a Jew!" and "That's so Jewish!" to refer to, well, I'm not really sure. It wasn't even the sort of stereotypical things people insult Jews over like, I dunno– being stingy, having big noses (Yeah, I've seen Nazi propaganda pamphlets. ick.). It was just a thing they called people. Imagine if that was what all the CounterStrike losers called each other– "LOL JEW LOL." "PWNED JEW." etc. Is that acceptable?

If it isn't, then why is "LOL FAG LOL" okay?

By: Railick

Railick — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:51:51 +0000

I’m a white dude, however I work on the phone for telephone companies. Once I was talking to a customer and for whatever reason I upset him and he started slinging racist slang at me calling me the N word and a lot of other stuff I’d never heard before. I’m not a black guy , I can’t imagine what it feels like to be a black person and have the same things said to you. However I can tell you that it made me feel horrible, like I was sub human like for some reason this guy on the phone was better than me (Or thought he was) It made my stomach burn and made me feel very angry, was shaking afterwards. (it only made it worse that I was actaully correct in what I’d said and he was ignorant and wrong)

THe guy sitting next to me noticed I was shaking and I told him what had happened. He happened to be a older black guy who I’d made friends with very quickly at my new job and he’d been doing that kind of work for a long time. He laughed at me and said “HAH! Now you know how it feels!” For whatever reason that actaully made me feel better. Since then I’ve had that same thing slung at me several times over the phone and I always feel the same way. I dunno if it is the tone of my voice or if it is just the people on the other end imaging that I must be black because I don’t agree with them I have no idea but It feels horrible to be on the other end of a racial slur even if you aren’t the race in question! It is far from true that words can never hurt you. They may injury you directly but they can cause emotional damage (I also know this from years of being verbally abused by my father) that can inturn indeed cause physical problems as well.

By: Klaus

Klaus — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:42:25 +0000

Heh. I wonder when the ‘I can’t be racist! I have black friends’ excuse will go outta style.

An insult is only harmful when you give the words power.
That’s about as useful as telling a child ‘sticks and stones.’ It’s easy to defend against hypothetical or imagined attacks, but when it’s in your face and you are understanding the earnest fervor it is being uttered with, I imagine it’s a different thing. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t react or care if I were called a nigger, I can’t be totally sure because- to my knowledge -I have never been the target of actual bigotry.

And watching many troll raids, I think I can safely disagree with such a claim. I’ve seen many a fellow make such a claim only to quickly relent and swear eternal vengeance of swift and brutal litigation.

By: Railick

Railick — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:35:03 +0000

One of my very best friends is an over weight black gay man who is balding. I was sitting there one day at work with him and I said "You do realize that you're like, every minority rolled into one?" and he said "What?" and I said "No offense, but you're gay, black , over weight, and bald. I can't imagine what I could throw in there to make you any more decimated against" and he said "Yah, you're right!" And we both had a good laugh about it.

Even having said that I would /never/ call him ANY of the words above even in a joking manner (although I have called him flaming before but he openly admits to that. I wouldn't do it if he weren't constantly hitting on me) Maybe if I knew him a lot better I would feel more comfortable using some more aggresive speech against him if I knew he thought that kind of thing was funny but I'd never do it just randomly.

You can say people should grow thicker skin but that is up to the person not you. What you think is a mild joke or some harmless words could be the straw that broke the camels back for the other person and really hurt their feelings,lower their feeling of self worth. Who knows you may be the one that convinces some dude to go off and kill himself. You never know, you can't know. It is best NOT to insult people and keep your feelings to yourself even if you don't agree with their life style. I don't agree with my friends life style choice but I don't hold it against him, it just isn't something I would choose for myself. I more than happy that he lives in a country where he is free to choose his own way and I am happy to have him as a friend. ( I just wish he'd stop hitting on me!)

By: The Colonel

The Colonel — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:20:42 +0000

The issue isn't using insults as a joke, especially when it's with/to your friends.

By: Hug_dealer

Hug_dealer — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:03:31 +0000

You can turn anything into an insult. i have gay friends, i have girl friends, i have all kinds of friends. I call the jocks meatheads, and make fun of thier jockish ways, the same way i call out my gay friends for thier flaming ways, and they would be the first to admit its all true. I get called out on my nerdish tendancies cause i play video games. so be it. Nothing wrong with razzing people.

Call me a bigot if you like, i dont care. Tell that to the 2 gay guys who will be standing up with me at my wedding soon.

An insult is only harmful when you give the words power.