Just as a FYI. (Click for the full thing)
(Picked up from the PCG forum via Poisoned Sponge)
More from the web
13/11/2009 at 02:59
I forget where, but someone from ID Software (Carmack?) said “Great that IW ditched dedicated servers first, so we didn’t have to pioneer into the ensuing shitstorm. Now we’re just following behind in the clear path. ” – talking about Rage not having dedicated servers.
13/11/2009 at 04:04
link to weblogs.variety.com
“It’s not cast in stone yet, but at this point no, we don’t think we will have dedicated servers,” he says.
Infinity Ward made the same decision for “Modern Warfare 2” and has been facing a massive backlash among its fans. The inevitable online petition has gathered over 183,000 signatures and even the developer has acknowledged the backlash.
“Modern Warfare 2” will use a matchmaking setup powered by IWNET for online play. It’s too early to say what Rage will use, but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.
That said, he realizes the affinity many PC gamers have for them – and is glad “Rage” won’t be leading the charge away from them.
“The great thing is we won’t have to be a pioneer on that,” he says. “We’ll see how it works out for everyone else.”
The thing is, Rage’s focus is on single player with 4 – 8 player multiplayer like Doom or Borderlands.
13/11/2009 at 04:10
I’m facepalming at the speed of light
13/11/2009 at 05:06
The Tingler says:
13/11/2009 at 05:13
Egoh Rtut says:
That is awesome and shows what spinless pussies most gamers are. They whine and crow, but don’t have the integrity to deny themselves.
Jackasses. (Proud L4D2 boycotter. Suck my unit, Valve.)
13/11/2009 at 09:16
The world is divide betwen these that want freedom ( elitist?) and these that are perfectly free with locked down interfaces. And you choose to blame these that want freedom, but I say that these that accept the lack of freedom sould also to be blame. No man sould accept the level’s of DRM that a videogames console support, is just WRONG on all levels, that you can’t install your mods on your console, that Microsoft dictate from his HQ what you can and can’t run on your console.
13/11/2009 at 12:33
Malibu Stacey says:
Make sure you land on something soft when you fall off your high horse Tei
15/11/2009 at 06:32
The soft bodies of console gamers?
13/11/2009 at 05:45
Wally Kockenhiemer says:
This whole MW2-PC thing has really opened my eyes to why PC gaming has been in steady decline. The sense of entitlement PC elitest gamers think they deserve is absolutely ridiculous.
PC Gamers demand it all, and they demand it be free. I have no idea why developers are turning their backs to these types of people. The PC gamers, themselves are digging the PC gaming grave and their elitest attitudes towards those outside of their little community make them very hard to feel sorry for.
The PC Gaming Elitest Creed: Give me, give me, give me…AND GIVE IT TO ME ALL RIGHT NOW.
13/11/2009 at 05:49
What does “sense of entitlement” have to do with anything? All people are asking for is the basic set of features that the last game had.
13/11/2009 at 05:49
What part of wanting dedicated servers is being elitist? And calling MW2 PC gaming elitists at all is almost laughable. They are the mainstream/console version of PC gaming
13/11/2009 at 08:46
When people talk about pc gamers sense of entitlement i’m right there nodding.
But what the hell are you talking about. These guys dropped from the protest, and even the still boycotting people are simply refusing to buy a product which doesn’t meet their standards.
13/11/2009 at 10:04
When elitism is outlawed, only outlaws and Quakeworld players will enjoy elitism.
13/11/2009 at 17:03
How does Kotick’s dick taste?
13/11/2009 at 17:55
Elitists? Why because the largest argument for the boycott was no support for dedicated servers? Maybe this needs to be explained to you…dedicated servers are rented on a monthly basis by the players. And ALOT of people that continually play on those renters servers donate money to the Clan renting it to keep it going and show support. So the price of the game and sometimes upwards of $40-$60/month to rent a server…I fail to see your logic about getting anything free.
Arguing about playing the game illegally is irrelevant since all show up on any torrent site, and anyone with half a brain can make them work on consoles as easy as PCs.
You can pay for your game, and your content…and play on your subpar console that will be replaced in 2 yrs – and you can let people tell you how to play your game, who your going to play with and how many people you can play with. Congrats on that.
You probably also own a mac, and are one of the first hypocrites to yell at your TV over National Healthcare.
13/11/2009 at 18:00
I wanted dedicated servers as it reduces my chances of having to play a game alongside people like you.
14/11/2009 at 20:37
PC gaming isn’t in decline. Its the most profitable platform of all the gaming platforms out there. You just have to step outside of your box and realize that PC gaming isn’t just a few select elite games the way that consoles are. There is a lot more to PC gaming than the AAA titles.
14/11/2009 at 20:52
This kind of trolling is why internet message forums are in decline.
13/11/2009 at 06:06
Oh, and let’s not forget the way Steam organizes members in groups. Members who are in-game all show up on the first pages, so all of the people who are playing a game will be on the same page. I’m looking at the group right now and there are only about 3 people in the whole 800+ member group playing MW2. Everyone past the first page is players who aren’t currently in a game, so when you see 15-20 people playing MW2 in that pic it’s most likely that it’s ALL of the players who are playing it in the entire group. There are 50+ pages of people, and all the players who are playing MW2 will be on the same page.
13/11/2009 at 07:09
I’ve found accusing people of having a sense of entitlement to be a way of trolling requiring zero effort and providing great results. This guy is probably trying the same thing.
13/11/2009 at 07:11
Good eye/brain. You win
13/11/2009 at 10:24
Why? only 19/833 are playing that crap…
13/11/2009 at 10:42
There are only 33 people playing so nearly 2 thirds of the active group are playing Mw2.
Im not a big CoD fan but i was planning on buying it until i found out there was no dedicated servers. I love playing mods and i have dial up so matchmaking really sucks balls for me.
13/11/2009 at 11:00
Well I was fully signed up to the MW2 boycott (not in the steam group though, not sure how that would help)… and I now have the game. And it’s very good.
Yes I am a scab.
A large part of my gaming time is devoted to playing with friends, and my friends were playing MW2 and having a great time. So I bit the bullet, and in all honesty I’m glad I did. I was wrong, although I would still prefer dedicated servers.
13/11/2009 at 11:35
I’m disappointed in RPS that this picture was posted with the title “why they don’t take boycotts seriously” and no more information than that. It gives the impression that all the boycotter’s are playing mw2 which they are not when you actually look at the steam group only a tiny number are, bit more information or a less sensational headline next time please Kieron.
13/11/2009 at 13:33
It’s just a funny picture. Because, right, at the top it says “Boycott Modern Warfare 2″ and then, under that, there’s a screenful of members, playing Modern Warfare 2! That’s funny.
And now you’ll say “well the headline shouldn’t have said whine whine whine etc.”.
Ok, see, because it’s a funny picture, rather than, say, an exercise in scientific or statistical research, it doesn’t need to adhere to the rules of the empirical and formal sciences.
There are many such fields of human industry. Many fields of human endeavour which are not limited scientific method including such popular pastimes as “art”, “playing with stuff” and “having sex”.
This combination of images and pictures was none of those three things, you could perhaps call it a joke used for rhetorical purpose, but outside of that imagined scientistic world so many people think they inhabit these days, some things don’t even have or need names! It’s the land taxonomy forgot! It’s actually a land of which the make-believe-land-of-science is a subset! Science isn’t actually flat, it’s a sphere which orbits the bright and shining ball nuclear powered fun we call culture!
So these words and pictures in this arrangement, which I will call item-of-funny-picture-and-words-for-rhetorical-purpose-1 henceforth, does not claim to accurately represent the habits of all, or even a majority, of MW2 boycotters. It’s just a funny picture of a screenful of people, self-proclaimed boycotters, playing the self-same (the very self same) game they had sworn to boycott! Which, while not directly representative, is illustrative of the fact (or assertion of the writer, if you prefer) that boycotters of games usually cave. The image, you see, is not used as evidence or proof of this, it is merely an illustration, a signifier, an evocation.
You know that lobster telephone what Dali did? It’s not intended for actual use. And apparently Picasso’s models didn’t actually look like that. Robert de Niro isn’t actually a gangster, he’s just pretending. There’s probably no land over the rainbow (where one goes to weigh a pie). Snoop Doggy Dogg can’t actually turn into a Doberman. Brancusi’s towers aren’t actually endless. Crab sticks aren’t actually made of crab. It turns out there was no cake at all. Female Egyptian Pharaohs probably didn’t have beards. Smoking does actually make you look cool. Those photos of fairies, they were just pictures cut out of a book. Distant things aren’t actually less saturated, it’s just aerial perspective. And they’re not actually smaller either. Genesis is probably allegorical. Big girls do cry. There may or may not be a party like an S-Club party. McDonalds aren’t actually loving it. And Dame Edna has actually received no such honour from the Queen.
The world is full of filthy lies :(
13/11/2009 at 13:53
Research done has proven that there actually isn’t a party like an S Club party, though the report noted that the assertion only posits ‘similarity’ as the criteria under contention and not any qualitative measure. Many believe this renders the assertion highly disingenuous, but S Club Parties were indeed not like other parties because Bradley made these lovely vol au vants especially for them that had little smiley faces on the top made out of an upside down slice of mushroom and two bits of diced pepper for the eyes. Also they were better than Steps.
13/11/2009 at 13:58
I defer to my learned colleague on the subject of the similarity of other parties to S-Club parties. You won me over with the vol au vents with faces (it has a ridiculous name for a foodstuff AND a face!).
Having said that, and noting that the only criterion considered was ‘similarity’, I would assert that while certainly ‘unlike’ an S-Club party, a B*witched party would be immeasurably better.
13/11/2009 at 12:15
yeah after kotick comments on his vision for the future of the industry I was right up for boycotting MW2 on moral grounds, then I realised I didnt really care that much about the developers and I should just enjoy the games, and bloody hell its a fantastic game.
13/11/2009 at 12:39
The pathetic apologism and caving-in I’m reading here is hilarious and also saddening at the same time. Really? You can’t resist buying a generic FPS? What are you, a child?
13/11/2009 at 12:49
Some might say that it takes a bigger man to admit you’re wrong, and to change your mind, than it does to blindly stick to your guns.
Anyway it’s my money, I’ll do what I want with it :-)
13/11/2009 at 12:56
To quote Trillex “I bought MW2 despite not liking the direction they went figuring that you’d have to try it out before saying it’s shit.
So I did. It’s fun but laggy and I miss a community. :(”
So why did you buy it then? Because if you miss a community, supporting this game by buying it backs IW’s stance and means (as we have already heard from Carmack) that other pro-console developers will leap on the bandwagon and stop providing dedicated servers because now they know they can get away with it.
As for saying you had to “try it out before saying its shit” – and then saying “it’s laggy”, well, tell you what, why not try leaping off a cliff to see if you can fly. Thousands of people over the years have advised against it and all evidence says it will be a stupid thing to do, but how do you know until you’ve tried it out for yourself?
Or maybe next time you could try listening to people and apply some common sense.
Why do you think PC Gaming moved away from peer-to-peer and towards dedicated servers for almost all FPS games in the first place? Precisely because dedicated servers are superior to client-based ones.
Nobody (except IW apparently) would even try to argue that this is not the case, so why is anyone surprised when you try replacing a good and working solution with a downgraded version of the same thing and feck me – it doesn’t work so well as it used to.
Enjoy your fun single-player game and see if you are still playing the multiplayer in six months.
I don’t mean to pick on you particularly, but anyone PC gamer who visits PC gaming news sites has nobody but themselves to blame for falling for the hype and bailing out IW.
Although I hate having to do it, I have stuck by my morals and will not buy this game, because I hate what IW have done (and the way they have done it) even more than I hate not being able to play a game I was looking forward to.
13/11/2009 at 13:26
You can bet I dmn well feel entitled to get a certain level of product for a certain amount of my money. I paid 50 bucks for Modern Warfare, and I got my money’s worth, and then some. You want to kick up the price for a sequel that offers less of a product to me? I’ll still feel entitled … but that doesn’t mean I have to buy the game.
I’m a big beleiver in companies that work to build relationships with the customer … this is why I trust Valve with the Steam platform far more than I would if I were looking at Steam without the history of positive treatment and support that Valve has provided me for over the past decade. If a company demonstrates that it is not interested in delivering the quality I want … I won’t let my money go to them.
If it does so in such a manner that insults my intelligence … I’ll be more drastic. I don’t know what it would take to get me to buy ANY Activision product after hearing Bobby Kotic’s “plans” for his company, but the way things are looking now, I’ll also pass on Diablo III and Starcraft II.
13/11/2009 at 13:37
If being pissed that they took away BASIC features from an established franchise while RAISING THE PRICE makes you an elitist, then yes, I am a PC elitist.
I like getting my money’s worth from a game.
Goes back to playing Dragon Age: Origins
13/11/2009 at 13:47
Am currently playing Call of Duty 4 on the “MW2 Boycott Server”, which, while it is unique in name, is not unique in the banners displaying the rules.
Half of the available servers for CoD4 have banners saying “Cancel your preorder Cancel your preorder” “You wouldn’t be able to find this server without dedicated servers”.
Like I said before, after reading that developer chat transcript, I am never buying anything from IW ever again.
13/11/2009 at 15:45
bobby davro says:
I have boycotted MW2, not by not playing it, just by not buying it. If theres no point to the MP, then a warezd copy for the SP will do for me thanks.
13/11/2009 at 15:56
This really doesn’t make me happy. However at least we will get an actual explanation out of Carmack as to WHY they are going this path. IW’s “Our customers are morons” didn’t really fly too well with me, and Carmack tends to be outspoken.
I freely admit I’m a Carmack fanboy, and despite my gut reaction of “well, this is gona suck” I still can’t help but think that there is a chance he could be on to something, and it might work out. I still hold strong reservations (simply put, No Admins == People Suck)
13/11/2009 at 16:13
What is really behind this “movement” to use P2P stuff?
It deliver worst pings and limit the number of players. It make the programming more complex, and make cheating easier. Hell.. the cheater could be the server, so you could be in hands of the cheater. If the server is CPU bound, it will add extra latency, that will convert any fiery battle into “bullet time”. If the server is network bound, everyone will “warp” everywhere, even If his internet conection is godlike.
Is not that you have to pay for people to host, on the PC there will exist people that will fight for the privilege to host in data centers. And time has proven, that people will still be hosting as ~20 years before ( QuakeWorld servers still playing the original 2forts map )
It could be that on the consoles you have to host for all the players, hence there are cost for C2S hosting, but only if your game must run for consoles. So a game that is “PC only” can be C2S, but a multplatform title, is cheaper to make it solely “P2P”.
But.. I am wrong? I has been wrong before, so can be.. but I don’t know what other reason for a inverior hosting system like P2P exist.
Also, please add a filter to Borderlands game browser, please, I have a level 40 lilith, and I would love to be able to play with some people my level, but all I see is lots of level 1 to 17 games, with a occasional level 50 game. Damn… the PC world perfected the game browser idea. please copy it to the console world!. kthanks!
13/11/2009 at 16:40
If IW.net was as good a feature as IW claimed then they’d have announced it well in advance, before most of the pre-orders were in. They’d want PC gamers on their side, and would have released have released a multiplayer demo, like they did with MW1.
Leaving it to a dev chat to reveal it just before release (after assuring that nothing had changed in a previous interview), then being evasive about other dropped features and dismissive of the PC gaming commutity didn’t do much to convince PC gamers of its merits. It certainly turned me from someone who would have pre-ordered the game from someone who won’t buy it until it’s less than £15 or so, just for the single player. (And I spent hundreds of hours playing MW1 online).
Anyway, I’m too addicted to Dragon Age: Origins – a true PC game in every way – to want to play MW2 at the moment.
13/11/2009 at 16:55
I didn’t join any group or lend my virtual sig to anything, but I have refused to buy it and will most likely not ever buy it. So many things about this and the attitude IW/ActiBlizz had about it put me off long ago.
13/11/2009 at 17:00
What I don’t get about the boycott is the entire focus on the lack of dedicated server, ignoring the other faults.
Namely that I can’t bloody well afford that much for a single game. Seriously, I’d only probably want to play the single player and running at up to a fiver per hour of game is just not on.
Think of all the beer that could buy.
13/11/2009 at 17:04
“Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.”
Much like himself.
13/11/2009 at 17:07
Was actually thinking that myself. They haven’t made a great game since, what, Return to Castle Wolfenstein?
13/11/2009 at 18:06
They are all pirates
13/11/2009 at 18:35
Haggai Elkayam says:
Have you tried searching for “Boycott” on the Steam Community? I can guarantee a post-worthy screenshot you’ll want to publish.
14/11/2009 at 02:39
Seriously this was taken on release day. Only 1 person online in that group playing the game come Friday night now that the hoopla has calmed down. Better measure of this without the irony is the IGN reader reviews which is currently averaging 1.9 out of 10 after over 900 reader ratings.
14/11/2009 at 04:00
link to youtube.com
Wot’s wrong with kids these days?
15/11/2009 at 00:06
It really doesn’t matter how many people play the game today. What matters is whether there is a community to play the game six months from now, and dedicated servers have always been at the heart of such communities.
What really stinks is that everyone knows this, even IW. It wasnt an accident that they gave us all the middle finger, they knew exactly what we were expecting. And while we can only assume that this was the more profitable course, its a damn shame that it meant ruining such a good game.
21/11/2009 at 03:42
Sorry for the very late reply. But I just had to reply to this.
I think you are either very young, or have never played a pc game. Or it could be both.
The reason that the PC gaming is in a decline is because more money can be made from consoles. Because people like you will pay for a map pack. Which PC gamers would normally get for free. Not because PC gamers are elitist and spoilt. But because if they charged money, nobody would buy it. The reason they wouldn’t is because of the great modding community. The same community that inspired many of the features in the call of duty series. That created these features for free. But now they have been cut off and stabbed in the back.
And to make it even more laughable. Microsoft even charge to create indie content for the 360…. If only console games would open their eyes and realise the pc gamers that are complaining are not being elitist, but using something called common sense!
18/11/2010 at 10:17
Watch movies online says:
Thought I would comment and say great theme, did you create it on your own? It’s really great!
Fast fighting frolics
Give a loved one hexes for Christmas
Tick it off your list
How place affects games and creators
No marquee signings
17 years and still dive-shooting.
Sometimes watching isn't enough.
Let the carping commence
Playing your cards right
The best Assassin's Creed game yet.
Is television really THAT bad?
How to make the best settlement
I'm with the banned
Scratch that XCOM or Jagged Alliance itch.
A Fallout 4 perma-death diary, day 5
Stuff the ballot
A Fallout 4 perma-death diary, day 4