Fresh from the RPS Chatroom: DX3/T4 News

By Kieron Gillen on November 24th, 2009 at 6:52 pm.

Fuckity-fuck-fuck-fuck
[18:41] bremxjones3: “Square Enix’s Tokyo developers are to work on the cinematics for Eidos Montreal’s upcoming Deus Ex sequel, the studio’s general manager Stephane D’Astous told us.”
[18:41] Ento: aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[18:41] swiss-: noooOOoo
[18:41] bremxjones3: Also, Thief
[18:42] swiss-: all, is lost

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157 Comments »

  1. Jacques says:

    Should we be afraid?

    • TeeJay says:

      From http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=98475

      René “Eidos Montréal Community Guy” (posted earlier today)

      “The only CGI they are producing is for the trailer. All in-game cinematics are done in-engine… …Everything in the game is in-engine, no CGI…
      …All cut scenes (is that better?) in the game will be in-engine. CGI will remain the domain of video trailers. Hope that clears things up!”

      “The concept, story, dialogue, art direction, etc. all come from us [Eidos Montréal] … They are producing our ideas. We are working closely with them every step of the way to ensure the Western Cyberpunk feel is maintained. Fear not.”

  2. smokingkipper says:

    Is this how leaks happen? Or was this just a slip up PR nightmare thing?

  3. Stony says:

    Why must you console-tards break all our nice PC things?!

    I kid, I love Final Fantasy, but that’s definitely an odd artistic choice.

  4. JCDenton says:

    Shit.

  5. Pantsman says:

    Square-Enix does do very good CGI. Besides, A Deus Ex game will have very few cinematics, so it shouldn’t matter much anyway…right?

  6. Pags says:

    What a shame.

  7. Decline says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qKzIsisU

    Now with androgynous spiky haired lead characters.

  8. Zaphid says:

    Oooookay, I guess.

    If they want to win me over,they should remake Deus Ex intro

  9. Vinraith says:

    My expectations are lowered accordingly.

  10. Finn says:

    Oh come on, the cinematics in the Final Fantasy games is always grand. We just have to hope that Squeenix can stick to making them looking game-centric.

    I say this quietly crying in fear of one day seeing Garrett do some sort of flying ninja leap with his cape flowing in beautiful slo-mo and his teeth clenched in an eye-brow raised grin…

    • Jacques says:

      Technically, sure, but the characters sure are fucking dull.

    • JonFitt says:

      It is always grand, but it is also always really obviously JRPG. They have a very distinct look and movement which I don’t think fits DX or Thief.
      Perhaps they’re fully capable of producing high quality animations in a Western style, I can only judge what I have seen though.

  11. arqueturus says:

    Can I just point out the cinematics in FF games are generally the best part?

  12. cyrenic says:

    Awesome, I’m hoping for 30 second cutscenes that play whenever you activate an augmentation.

    • JonFitt says:

      Complete with shots of JC running at hyperspeed through a forest and fighting on a grassy plain which has no bearing on his current location? Then will he look solemnly down at the ground while leaves fall slowly?
      STRENGTH MOD ACTIVATE!

  13. Vitamin Powered says:

    So long as Eidos is allowed to enforce a “1 belt per Thief character / 1 zip per Deus Ex character” rule, with cattle-prods, I’ll be willing to see where this goes.

    (the other snarky comment I thought was “hey, at least they’re not being allowed near the gameplay…”)

  14. Cynik says:

    The cinematics were the best part of Deus Ex and Thiaf and I’m glad they’re spending a huge budget on them for the sequels.

  15. Durbin says:

    One of the best things about deus ex was you got to carry out all the action yourself, sure it was third person for some key dialog but if they take control from me for any action I will be VERY annoyed!

    • Vinraith says:

      Agreed. The startling thing about Deus Ex was that it wasn’t broken up by cinematics. Between missions you actually went back to base, walked around base, talked to people, it was absolutely remarkable at the time. That sense of immersion, along with the stunning sense of choice in the field, were the two things that really made it stand out. It would be a grievous error to undermine either one of them.

  16. FunkyLlama says:

    Oh joy, now we get to see what JC Denton would look like as a flat-chested dickgirl.

  17. Collic says:

    We’re probably being a little unfair on square Enix here. They’re being hired to do cinematics, not re-invent JC Denton as an anime character with spiky hair and a ludicrously proportioned sword.

    I can understand peoples concern, but I find it hard to believe a professional game studio isnt capable of working to a brief, and producing something in line with concept art and the IP they have been hired to work on.

    I never had huge hopes for the sequel after invisible war, but this news doesn’t really change that. Better to be cautiously pessimistic than disappointed.

    • ulix says:

      They are not being “hired”.

      They own Eidos, and Thief and Deus Ex with it.

      I say: let them do the cutscenes. Square Enix cutscenes are awesome, you whiners.

  18. Evo says:

    @Cynik

    Please tell me you’re being sarcastic.

  19. Paul says:

    Deus Ex + Thief + Final Fantasy = Shoot the bad guy!

    Fitting.

  20. jsutcliffe says:

    I really don’t understand the negativity. The story is basically “We’re getting our parent company’s awesome CGI team to do our CGI sequences.” Honestly, the snobbishness of the PC gamer can be incredible.

    • Vinraith says:

      “awesome CGI team”

      That’s the point of contest.

      Oh, and speaking for myself this isn’t a console-hate thing, it’s an anime-hate thing.

    • Kanakotka says:

      What about the pretentiousness of the console gamer? We, as PC gamers want to keep our games good and enjoyable, outside the influence of terribly crappy production coming usually from Asia’s direction when it comes to any kind of roleplaying game.

      We have already almost completely lost the FPS as PC gamers, due to ‘consolization’ of so many titles in the past few years, we really don’t want to give an inch more to the consoles, as they are, and always will be inferior platforms to play anything complex on… that is, until they adapt better or completely different control.

    • The Hammer says:

      @Vin: Final Fantasy isn’t exactly anime…

      And geez, guys! This might be opening a can of worms, but people do exist who like both sets of games, y’know. I’m one of them. Yeah, bring on the Deus Ex, and bring on the Final Fantasy. I love both. The last proper Final Fantasy they released, XII, was actually really, really good, and whilst the plot curtails into far-fetched ridiculousness, the characters and the relationships between them were pretty excellent. The ensemble cast was very strong. FF games aren’t made for hardcore RPG fans, and that’s alright. They’re in between Diablo and Baldur’s Gate. And again, that’s alright. They’re a lean-back RPG. Again, that’s alright. A lot of people will just stick to them, but a lot of people (like me – my first RPG was IX) will branch off. Surely that’s… good?

      Not that this makes a difference, because they’re not writing the story – they’re doing the cutscenes. And Final Fantasy’s cutscenes, whatever their narrative content, are to a lofty standard. You can contest whether they’re well shot, but technically, they’re brilliant. And since DE it seems is at least some way into development, I doubt they’re going to easternise them – what would be the point? They don’t have the appeal to Japanese audiences.

    • oisomeguy says:

      @jsutcliffe: I think what we’re afraid of is basically Big Gun Syndrome. As fans of the predecessors, we are alarmed at the possibility of this cut-scene business being an attempt to make up for pitfalls in other, more important areas of the games.

    • jsutcliffe says:

      That’s odd — as a fan of the series, I’m excited by the prospect of Squenix’s CGI folks doing the FMV sequences. I do remain skeptical about the actual game though, because I wasn’t a big fan of DX:IW (I keep meaning to give it another shot, but I lost the disc a long time ago and don’t want to pay again for a game I remember disliking)

    • bleeps says:

      @The Hammer
      Thank you for being one of the few sensible comments on this page.

    • ulix says:

      Vinraith:
      ““awesome CGI team”

      That’s the point of contest.

      Oh, and speaking for myself this isn’t a console-hate thing, it’s an anime-hate thing.”

      You can hate animes all you want. You can’t argue that Sqeenix have the best CGI team in the industry (maybe Blizzard comes close, but apart from them… nothing)

    • TCM says:

      @Kanakotka:

      It’s like reading a “White Power!” chant for video games.

    • PleasingFungus says:

      @Kanakotka:

      “What about the pretentiousness of the console gamer? We, as PC gamers want to keep our games good and enjoyable, outside the influence of terribly crappy production coming usually from Asia’s direction when it comes to any kind of roleplaying game.

      We have already almost completely lost the FPS as PC gamers, due to ‘consolization’ of so many titles in the past few years, we really don’t want to give an inch more to the consoles, as they are, and always will be inferior platforms to play anything complex on… that is, until they adapt better or completely different control.”

      TCM: translation:
      TCM: “WHITE POWER WHITE POWER”
      TCM: i am serious
      TCM: i watched an american nazi rally on history channel the other day
      TCM: he’s taking the same words and sticking them on video games

      PleasingFungus: Oh, really.
      PleasingFungus: He’s pretentious and stupid in so many ways!
      PleasingFungus: Cutting it to merely “white power” weakens the sheer idiocy of his message.
      PleasingFungus: I mean, really, it’s “Logical fallacy, WHITE POWER WHITE POWER, taking things too seriously, poor grasp of history… grammar failure.”

      TCM: all of the above

  21. Thirith says:

    Certain people at TTLG will explode in the most messy way possible.

  22. Lu-Tze says:

    Final Flight of the Osiris is probably the closest Square Enix production to what you are likely to see, but sure, lets keep on assuming it’s going to be a load of androgynous spiky haired characters with big eyes and colourful accessory laden outfits.

  23. Senethro says:

    Serious thought: Do we need or want an RPS chatroom for non-pro-writey people?

    • KBKarma says:

      I believe the answers to that are “yes”, “yes”, and “of course”.

      As long as it’s an IRC channel, then I’m all for it. I’ve got 16 or so channels so far. One more won’t hurt.

  24. Isometric says:

    Surely character design and CGI cinematics are different areas of work? I’m not saying anything more till i get indepth information. Wish i had a time machine for such events.

  25. Hunam says:

    It’s just a CG house, no need for panties to get in any twist, they wont magically look different to the games.

  26. KBKarma says:

    Square Enix can do male-looking males. Considering that they’ll pretty much be using existing designs, and probably in-game models, it should be decent.

  27. TheBlackBandit says:

    Without doubt.

  28. Dain says:

    I really liked the stylised Thief cutscenes.. surely a return to them would be cheaper AND more stylish?

    • Vandelay says:

      Agreed. The Thief cutscenes had a really unique look to them that I hope remains.

      I don’t really see why people aren’t complaining about the potential change in style for the new Thief, but are instead moaning about the chance of the mundane cutscenes of Deus Ex being changed. Being a pure PC player, I don’t know much about Squire Enix’s other work, but I am sure they can do better than the tedious two rigid characters with badly done voice acting talking at each other.

  29. JackofAllTrades88 says:

    It’s funny how the opening post can color the rest of the comments. I think it makes sense to use your best assets to do something they’re more experienced at (brings down the cost of the CGI I’d imagine.) The Montreal guys can then focus on making the best game possible.

  30. annekhi says:

    How about using some of those resources for a PC port of FF13?

    SE acquiring Eidos is too suspicious. I mean they ported FF7 and 8 back in the day… so maybe they’ll…. you know….. right? Right??

  31. Milton says:

    People clearly have a very wrong idea of anime, an ideia that I think is born of ignorance. Sure there is a lot of bad anime but the same is true for movies, music, games etc.

    About the cinematics, so long as they do only an intro and the endings I’m fine. Actually my d3us3x/thi4f expectations are already below 0, I’m so apathetic that the cinematics thing just passes through me.

  32. luphisto says:

    the main thing I’m worried about here is whether theres been a shift in the overall philosophy behind the games in general. hiring a big name like Square-Enix just for the cut scenes seems to me like they are going about it like a big budget Hollywood action movie. i think a good example of this tonal shift would be the difference between Pitch Black and chronicles of Riddick.

  33. Milton says:

    People clearly have a very wrong idea of anime, an idea that I think is born of ignorance. Sure there is a lot of bad anime but the same is true for movies, music, games etc.

    About the cinematics, so long as they do only an intro and the endings I’m fine. Actually my d3us3x/thi4f expectations are already below 0, I’m so apathetic that the cinematics thing just passes through me.

  34. Muzman says:

    Didn’t these guys bankrupt themselves proving they couldn’t make CG characters behave like real people?

    Maybe it just means they’ve got a lot of rendering tech not doing a whole lot right now and please give their begging asses a job.

    • Starky says:

      For all the Square/Anime bashing going on here, I just have to counter that with…

      Square do the best CGI on the planet, without a doubt – Pixar may do the best animation and storytelling, but when it comes to realism, no one beats Square. Spirits within, while a failure of storytelling and so a dull movie was years ahead of it’s time – a massive step forward for CGI, and an unbelievable technological achievement.
      An achievement that cost them 160 million dollars (production and marketing), and caused Square’s movie branch to go bust.

      Silver lining though – the technology, the assets, and the expertise from that failed movie, have earned undoubtedly square the company vastly more than they lost on Spirits within (which with DVD sales and TV rights has probably broken even by now, or at least gotten close) – It’s probably paid for itself in asset reuse in other projects alone.
      Square also have the best texture artists in the world, seriously have a look at spirits within bluray 1080p, it looks amazing still, and it was released in 2001.

      The bad thing though with realism, is that damned uncanny valley, photorealism for everything except humans, because they are so real looking, the slight wrongness about their animation, movement and subtleties just creep people out.
      Like those realistic looking dolls, and robots… creepy.

    • ulix says:

      “Didn’t these guys bankrupt themselves proving they couldn’t make CG characters behave like real people?”

      No. They went bankrupt because they didn’t have a descent script and let one of their game-writers write it. Their animations were extremely realistic, and still are among the best when it comes to “realistic looking, rendered humans”. Definitely 10 times better then Blizzard’s in that field.
      Even Final Fantasy VIII, which came out in 98 or so, had better (CGI) animations then any Blizzard game to date.

  35. Freudian Trip says:

    What about the pretentiousness of the console gamer? We, as PC gamers want to keep our games good and enjoyable, outside the influence of terribly crappy production coming usually from Asia’s direction when it comes to any kind of roleplaying game.

    We have already almost completely lost the FPS as PC gamers, due to ‘consolization’ of so many titles in the past few years, we really don’t want to give an inch more to the consoles, as they are, and always will be inferior platforms to play anything complex on… that is, until they adapt better or completely different control.

    Stars off with the pretentiousness of the console gamer and then goes on to that waffle :D

  36. cullnean says:

    i for one welcome our new asian overlords

  37. Zwebbie says:

    I don’t think the problem here is what company is doing the cinematics, but that there are cinematics in the first place. Deus Ex was all the better for having you see everything with your own eyes. The intro movie was so vague at the start of the game that it could have been left out anyway.

    But then, I’m rather apathetic to a sequel to a game that depends for a large part on shocking discoveries. There’s a conspiracy, you say? I wouldn’t have guessed…

  38. skizelo says:

    I’m going to miss Thief’s cut scenes. Despite being just above Pugwash in terms of technical difficulty, they were effective and distinctive. Hopefully this isn’t an omen about the rest of what made Theif interesting.

  39. TheSombreroKid says:

    no one actually believed that deus ex 3 was in any way related to deus ex, so why is everyone moaning, cinematics is the only thing square enix do well and if deus ex 3 is to deus ex what bioshock was to system shock 2 then i’d be a very happy bunny, nice cinematics thrown into the bargin is a good thing.

  40. Rath says:

    More Kidneythieves please. The one good thing I took away from Invisible War.

  41. bergotronic says:

    Honestly do these games even need fancy expensive cutscenes? The graphical capabilities that the engines of today can pump out can surely outclass the CGI from Deus Ex and T1/2.

    In-Game cutscenes ftw?

  42. Farfarer says:

    I’m not sure whether I’m more offended by the fact that Deus Ex will have cinematic cutscenes or the fact that Square Enix will be doing them… :|

    Does not bode well…

  43. Jeremy says:

    Honestly, I’m going to reserve judgment on this one for awhile. Square Enix has done a remarkable job (I think) of creating CGI. We shouldn’t really make the assumption that it will look exactly like japanese anime or something. Like Collic was saying, Square Enix is full of talented and professional artists, I’m sure they’re aware that Deus Ex and Thief are not Final Fantasy 14 and 15. Some have said that this is sort of hinting at a philosophy shift, but maybe they’re trying to stay committed to the vision of the game itself, and they don’t want to use production time on creating CGI or whatever.

    Of course, some people “hate” CGI for reasons I cannot comprehend. I can only assume it’s because some console games have CGI :)

  44. Garg says:

    They should have got the guys who did the Dawn of War 2 cinematic.

    In reponse to some of the other commenters I doubt that there are going to be cinematics in the actual game, probably just a cinematic lead in (as in Deus Ex 2, and actually pretty much all single player games come to think of it) and/or one at the end. So I doubt it’s going to destroy your immersion; the inevitable silly UI will probably do that.

  45. KawaiiSlime says:

    Deus Ex 3 designer Jean-Francois Dugas calls the original title “kind of slow,” explaining that “there weren’t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.”

    Last games this guy worked on?

    The shitty console versions of Far Cry (Far Cry: Instincts):

    http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,162262/

    Deus Ex is in great hands.

  46. shiggz says:

    Agreed. Considering the space limitations on a 360 single disc ill take in game videos please. CGI cut scenes used to be kinda cool like with Diablo. Nowadays they waste precious space and really kinda remove you from the fun.

  47. Heliocentric says:

    Anything lower than 720p looks like crap on high end monitors. So yes, if you want cutscenes, if you must have them make them in game.

  48. bleeps says:

    This really should be filed under angry internet men. In fact, these people should form a boycott. Those are popular I hear.

  49. jsutcliffe says:

    If people would read the linked article they’d see that all that’s being suggested is Squenix creating pre-release trailers and the opening cinematic, which is hardly worth twisting knickers over. I’m quite interested to see what they’ll do with a grittier setting, as most Squenix cinematics I’ve seen have been in JRPGs, which are generally rather brighter.

  50. Alexander Norris says:

    Y’know, for all we know the only cinematics in Deus Ex 3 will be the intro and the extro.

    I also very much doubt that SquEnix will do the Thi4f cinematics, since those are obviously going to be somewhat-animated watercolours/pastels/proper-drawn-art-whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

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