The Games Of Christmas: December 3rd

By RPS on December 3rd, 2009 at 3:56 pm.


Three days of advent calendarism leave us feeling like it’s time for a change of pace. Could that change lie behind the third door of our incredible seasonal advent calendar? All signs points point to yes, so ready your mouse, and prepare the click-drag selection-box of victory as we ride upon the hand of the one true leader of the Autobots, to discover…

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn Of War II!

Jim: The slow creep of real-time strategy into different blends of genre ideas is pleasing to see. The most quintessential of PC games seems to keen to reinvent itself, and that’s largely a good thing. Lots of people, however, felt that Relic were a bit too keen with Dawn Of War 2, and that the single player campaign lost something with its move away from more traditional and established base-building. It was interesting to watch the reaction to Dawn Of War II when it finally hit, because almost everyone felt it was an enjoyable game – a good effort – even if it somehow failed to capture what had been most enjoyable about the processes of the original game. What I think it did capture was the silly energy and bombast of the Warhammer 40k characters. Everyone in that universe is an absurdly overwrought creature, even the good guys, and the fighting is suitable vicious as a consequence. Taking on the orc warbosses, or seeing almost anything assaulted by the Space Marine Dreadnought was a joy. If Relic have mastered one thing then it’s bringing to life Games Workshop’s gothic war-machines so that they are awesome to watch.

Ultimately, I think I got the most enjoyment out of this multiplayer. Perhaps because it was closer to the original game, but more likely because the format was simply more interesting when you go up against unpredictable human opponents. Also: Whoooosh-bam!

Kieron: Yeah – as Jim notes, this is an odd one. You’re conflicted between seeing a developer take such a big risk a franchise and mild bewilderment. Can you remember a time when a single player and a multiplayer version of a game were as radically divergent as this? It’s more common in the world of First-person shooters, but to see two fundamentally different games being sold as one is a bit of a shock in the world of strategy games. Sort of traditional strategy doctrine basically takes the multiplayer as the pure game, with the single player being a riff off that. As in, chess is the “real” game – chess with AI simulating an opponent is a derivation.

But not Dawn of War 2. Single player is a sort of Squad-based Diablo… or more likely, Icewind Dale stripped of anything but the dungeons. Oddly, the game that most reminds me of Dawn of War 2 is actually Dragon Age. Mostly-real-time close-co-operation combat games. The sections where the NPCs decide to stop with the sexual tension between Morrigan and Alistair – I MEAN, JUST DO IT ALREADY – share a lot with Dawn of War 2′s single player. Hell, DoW2 could do with a bit more sexual tension I think. Upping the homoeroticism never did Gears of War any harm, after all.

On the multiplayer side… well, you’ve got something which, despite all the noise about its changes, is actually a relatively traditional RTS. Relatively is the word, of course, but it managed to take a few of the Company of Heroes-esque lessons and apply it to a grim future where there is only war. I’m interested to see what they’ll do with the first expansion too – it’s worth remembering that it was only with the expansions did Dawn of War really get nailed down into being an actually damn-entertaining single-player RTS.

And, yes, Whoooosh-bam!

Alec: Making positive noises about an initially underwhelming game because of its potential is the kind of thing that can get you thrown out of games journalist sorority college. But that’s how I felt about Dawn of War II – there was so much right, and so many great strides taken in terms of genuinely mashing RPG and RTS together, that I could forgive the over-repetitious singleplayer maps and rather watery multiplayer, purely because I was sure this game would only get better over the years. It made Space Marines into the rockhard man-mountains they’re supposed to be, rather than just so much growly-voiced cannon fodder. Dawn of War 1, despite its many and meaty charms, always felt like a greatest hits megamix of 40K, just throwing all the most recognisable bits into an arena. DoW2 felt like it was genuinely in the 40K universe, heavy with context and purpose. The Tyranids were an unfathomable alien threat, Assault Marines went Woooosh-bam! and everybody was an absolute bastard to everybody else.

I.e. they did it. They bloody did it. With Chaos Rising, I think they’re going to fix it too – a campaign that’s unpredictable and changeable, built upon the once-risky and confused but ultimately super-solid foundation that is DOW2.

Also: the free Last Stand update is total proof of why sometimes potential can be trusted, especially when it comes from a developer as seasoned as Relic. DoW2 is already a strange, sprawling blend of compulsion and strategy, actually making something of the experience point virus that’s infected about 90% of current and upcoming games. They’re not just doing this for the sake of it, and they know how to make the best of it now they’ve created it.

I may only be saying all of these positive words because I can paint my Tyranids gold, however.

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75 Comments »

  1. Ian says:

    I really liked what Dawn Of War 2 did single player-wise as I’ve never really had the knack for more traditional RTSes, but I ultimately still grew bored about halfway through the single player and I’d never venture online with a strategy game so that was that.

    Still look at it as a good game, it’s RTS in general that I’ve decided just isn’t for me even in DOW 2′s form.

  2. Hug_dealer says:

    oh dawn of war 2, how i love thee. No one out there can do RTS like Relic.
    Still havent played single player for it yet though, and i owned it since release. Actually i still havent played single player on the original, or any of the xpacks, or coh and its xpacks.
    My original idea for dow 2 was much more coh style set in space, but that didnt happen. No other rts can make the utter destruction that CoH put out as you establish a defensive line and the enemy pushes through it and artillery and rockets are flying everywhere.
    while flawed and not quite up to coh level. it beats out anything else on the market, or coming soon(i’m looking at your starcraft).

    • Sweedums says:

      i personally found CoH to be the perfect spot between DoW and DoWII. the first game was too…. simple for my liking… whereas the second was too small scale. i found CoH was perfect in both the management of the base/units and the size of the armies… i really havent played any other modern rts’s that have topped my experiences with CoH, i really hope they carry that series on with a full sequel. that said, both DoW and DOWII were great games in their own right.

  3. Martin Coxall says:

    You know, I’m as sick of base building as the next man. More of this sort of thing, say I.

    The Koreans can have their Starcraft II. What I want is innovation in RTSes.

    • StalinsGhost says:

      Indeed. Or as I put it:

      If I want a base building RTS, I turn to Starcraft. Why bother when it (and soon its sequel) has got that base (oooh, sorry) covered.?

      For the rest of them out there, more new stuff please!

  4. Clovis says:

    I guess John is scared of RTSs…

    …I know I am.

  5. Rakysh says:

    Got this with the THQ pack, didn’t play till today. IT IS THE SEX. I’m seriously in danger of becoming a fanboy. The last stand is awesome. The single player so far is still interesting, though I’m braced for that running out at some point. Haven’t tried multiplayer yet.

    • Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:

      I’ve been fighting through Singleplayer on Primarch difficulty, have nearly beaten it, and am not nearly bored with it yet. (The Fall Back button is a lot more powerful than you’d think.)

      Same with getting it from the THQ pack, I was actually kind of on the fence about the whole thing.

  6. Vandelay says:

    I only played the beta, but I came away with very mixed feelings. When it worked it was good fun, but the hopeless matchmaking system decided to continually pit me against opponents well above my skill level after I had won a couple of games. The core game seemed to be in 3v3, which I could imagine being great fun with a team of co-ordinated mates. Unfortunately, playing with randoms gave the same annoying problems as playing any game that requires team work.
    But my main problem with the game is probably the same reason why everyone heralds it… no base building. I think I must be a turtle at heart, because the lack of building bases or defenses really watered down the experience for me. Instead, the game seemed to rely on the repetition of the same tactics, the same rock, paper, scissors gameplay, and became even more reliant on speed then the typical base building game. Compared to the ancient Starcraft, where you could use drop ships, nukes, burrowed units, etc. the paths you could take felt limited.
    Personally, I found that CoH managed to get the mix much better, where building of defenses and laying mines or barbed wire became important.

  7. fishyjoes says:

    You are saying it beats the “soon” to come Starcraft 2?

    DoW2 may have it audience of people that dont like controlling many units in a RTS, but seriously DoW2 > Sc2? O_O

  8. Psychopomp says:

    Now if only they could fix early game Space Marines. Ain’t shit we can do against spam of any type, at that point, the other races just throw out too much to handle.

  9. Vandelay says:

    Martin Coxall says:
    “You know, I’m as sick of base building as the next man. More of this sort of thing, say I.

    The Koreans can have their Starcraft II. What I want is innovation in RTSes.”

    And I agree with fishyjoes.

    • Vandelay says:

      That was meant to be in reply to Psychopomp replying to fishyjoes

  10. Lilliput King says:

    The multiplayer is so hard, I can’t bring myself to go back to it.

  11. Tei says:

    In real life the creep grow everywhere, over mountains, lakes and buildings. You need a patrol around your base burning the creep with a flamethrower. There are “mud storms”, and after these storms, all the tanks and vehicles are under 2 foot of creep. If you forget to take your medicine, the creep grown inside you, and you die in a pool of black blood… your blood.
    How games like DOW or Starcraft show the creep is cute, a disneyworld version of the creep, but very unrealistic.

  12. Hmm says:

    I want so much more from it. First place to start is the maps.
    I don’t want little gothic cathedrals just being a solid block of scenery, I want full-scale, explorable, tyranid-infested, gothic cathedrals. I want my dreadnaught to punch through its walls to gain entry. I want to have my scouts in the belfry, sniping genestealers emerging from the sewers of the war-torn streets outside. I want to set turrets up in the aisles to fortify my position as my health recharges. I want the genestealers my scouts miss to leap through the stained-glass windows and get shot up by the turrets. And I want that to be only a small section of the map. Big, proper maps, more reminiscent of X-Com than the boring RTS-style maps. For example. Please.

  13. phil says:

    I second the call for more sexual tension amongst Space Marines; They’re inspired by both the myths surrounding the Spartans and Knight Templars, both groups in real life were gayer than a tree full of monkeys high on nitrous oxide. Fascist aggression = Frustration from tragic twarted love.

  14. Some Guy says:

    im pretty sure that the current lore has the space marrines chemicaly castrated.

    • user@example.com says:

      The Space Wolves, at least, suppress the urges the castration prevents them from expressing by quaffing, feasting, and braving the seas of Fenris to wrestle giant sea-snakes.

  15. Hug_dealer says:

    Dow 2 is definately not a rock, paper, scissors RTS. Starcraft is built off that.

    I stand by my dow 2 > than sc2. I played dow for years, i played SC for maybe 6 months. Blizzard is attempting to keep the same gameplay alive that only kept me occupied for 6 months.

    I’m not saying SC2 sucks, im just saying that in my eyes, i got bored with that gameplay a long time ago.

    Dow 2 has gotten better with every patch, adding new gametypes and maps. The maps they keep releasing are fantastic maps also, always coming up with something new for each map. Multiplayer does require teamwork though, the game is so incredibly fun when you have 2 equally skilled teams.

    • Vandelay says:

      Starcraft is really not based on a rock, paper, scissors gameplay. Units do not do more damage to certain units or take less damage from a particular unit. The only time you have real hard counters is anti-air against air or air against a unit with no anti-air. The gameplay in Starcraft is far more varied than the simple rock, paper, scissors gameplay that is used by so many other RTSs, which is why it is still played to this day.

    • Nakki says:

      Sure, some games are more rock-paper-scissors than Starcraft, but still, every single strategy game apart from Chess and the likes (no unit in that game is really rock, paper or scissors against any other unit, more against a specific situation) is more or less a rock-paper-scissors.

      I mean, some units just work better against some units than the others. It’s not the simplest rock-paper-scissors, but it still follows the same rule. It’s exactly the same with Total Annihilation (best RTS ever, by the way). There are no real counters for anything except anti-air and anti-nukes and such, yet people use different things to counter others.

  16. SwiftRanger says:

    Best RTS of the year (which was already crisp clear from the mp beta), even with its flaws (faulty quest looping design in singleplayer and poor matchmaking functionality in multiplayer). Scrapping basebuilding didn’t limit the interesting things you could do with your troops, it put the focus even more on tactics, fighting and spectacle. Played multiplayer in team games for ages, after I lost interest in that The Last Stand popped up renewing my addiction.

    Nice to see a lot of folks giving DoW II more credit than they did when it first came out. It really deserved more love from reviewers imo.

  17. Ginger Yellow says:

    Making positive noises about an initially underwhelming game because of its potential is the kind of thing that can get you thrown out of games journalist sorority college.

    Sadly, the sequel to Dangerous High School Girls In Trouble failed to live up to the original.

  18. SirKicksalot says:

    Didn’t Blizzard hire the main designer of DoW II to work on Starcraft 2?

    • Springy says:

      Blizzard hired him, but I thought it was as the lead on Diablo III? Which says a lot about DoWII, I suppose.

  19. archonsod says:

    Ironically enough, the main reason I disliked DoW 2 was precisely because it felt nothing like 40K.

  20. DMJ says:

    Bah. Where’s my Homeworld 3?

  21. Mo says:

    DoW2 IS NOTHING COMPARED TO STARCRAFT 2! NOTHING!!

    • Tei says:

      A billion stars in the sky separated millions of kilometers of distance each another shows in the sky like a single pixel.
      Everything is the same thing, if you look by a far enough distance.
      Students from the year 2405 will have a hard time to tell if Hitler and DaVince lived in the same country and years, and will probably study that the first RTS ever was “Warcraft 3″.

    • Psychopomp says:

      ORANGES ARE NOTHING COMPARED TO APPLES! NOTHING!

    • Hmm-Hmm. says:

      See, I never got that analogy. It’s perfectly possible to compare apples and oranges. Unless it was always meant as a sarcastic remark.

    • MD says:

      I think the idea is not that one is comparing apples in general with oranges in general, but comparing a specific orange with a specific apple, without even acknowledging that they’re not of a kind. The biggest trap being not so much that one’s opinion is clouded by a pre-existing orange/apple bias, but that one may end up judging an orange against criteria more relevant to apples, or vice versa. So it’s not “I prefer apples to oranges for these reasons” but “apple x owns orange y, it’s sweeter and crispier and oh so firm!”

  22. Heliosicle says:

    I’ve been planning to buy it the next time a deal comes up on steam, I enjoyed the beta, but at the time we were all into DoW1 and wanted base building and free for alls

  23. Garg says:

    I love DoW2, and I’m getting all twitchy in anticipation over the expansion. I love what it looks like they’re doing to the environment from the trailers, with rocks surging through the ice and such.

    I just wish that DoW 2 had the level of polish that CoH felt it had. Things like the number of animations and their details, as well as the variety of voices, are just less in DoW2. Relic said it’s because they couldn’t just use the same “human” animation skeleton on a shoota boy, and I guess they’re right. But it’s still a shame and something I hope they remedy in the forthcoming expansion(s – please be more than one, as I want to play Imperial Guard and build a fuck off huge horde of hellhounds and burn the crap out of everything).

  24. Dante says:

    I really did enjoy Dawn of War’s single player, in fact I found the multiplayer rather uninspiring because it was so familiar by comparison (Last Stand aside).

    I really hope Relic aren’t moving over to this new system wholesale though, I think it really works for DoW2, but I’d also like to see them continue with the RTS-but-without-the-base-building route they went for Company of Heroes, which for me is still the best RTS money can buy.

    Either way, Relic really are the best developers in the genre right now.

  25. drakkheim says:

    Still waiting on Rainbow 6 (with the actual useful tactical map) with spacemarines wandering about inside hulking spaceships teeming with tyrannid trying to recover relics from the past or whatnot,
    maybe they could call it something like HulkingSpace or something.

    DoW2 was ok.. enjoyed the singleplayer until it got boring doing the whole ‘go fight a boss’ thing over and over.
    Muliplayer was crap tho, worst matchmaking ever. Tried 6 times.. of wich 5 someone got disconnected within the first minute. The one time I actually got to play a whole game, it matched me and another lvl 1 up against two people ranked lvl30+ it was a total slaughter and lasted less than 5 min. Un-installed it afterward.

  26. SirWhat says:

    i am absolute DoW II fanboy. DoW was kinda meh precisely because it had basebuilding.

    singleplayer gets stale after a while, but mplayer is awesome. im hoping that Chaos Rising gets released on time. i had to wait 4 months before i got my retail copy of DoW II (and no i could NOT buy it in Steam, it simply didnt allow that, didnt try other digital shops because DoW II requires Steam and i dont like to gamble on possibilty that Steam bans my account)

    • Psychopomp says:

      What the fuck kinda things do you do that would warrant a steamban?

  27. Jeremy says:

    I really enjoyed the Single Player campaign in terms of potential, but yeah, after half the missions it did get a bit stale. Definitely glad that they’ve learned from their past mistakes and are really bringing a cohesive storyline together for the expansion. On the multiplayer side of things, it really wasn’t for me, I enjoy larger armies and never really felt connected to the game on that level. This is more of a personal preference though, so I couldn’t necessarily judge the multiplayer one way or the other, but it seems that people enjoyed it :) Definitely more a fan of SC types of games.. although I really would enjoy somehow bringing both ideas together. Loved the atmosphere and craziness of DoW2, it just seemed to small scale for me to love it. On the other hand, SC has the massive battles, but not necessarily the feeling or intensity of battle.

  28. Hug_dealer says:

    The expansion will be awesome.

    They arent dividing the community. people who dont buy the expansion still get to play with those that did, and they still get the new units, but wont get the new race/races.

    Gotta give Relic credit for that. They provide value for owning the original while still providing value for buying the new one, and keeping your entire community together.

    They are adding stances, so you can upgrade your walker with ranged weapons and still have it close in for melee, or upgrade your deff dred with flamers and use it to bbq enemies.

    Vehicle hulks will be left when they are destroyed, just like CoH. I think relic is taking note of what people wanted and what they could do. Kinda disappointed there is no defiler though :(. I hope for mega nobs though.

    • subedii says:

      You can set them to melee / ranged now, it’s just that there’s no default stance change option. That’s what’s being added in. Which hopefully means that I won’t have to force my Warp Spider Exarch to melee each time.

      And yeah, it’s pretty good the way that Relic avoid segregating the community. That would be really damaging, but the solution’s pretty simple. Those with both packs can play with all sides. Those with one pack can only play with the sides specific to that pack.

  29. x25killa says:

    I like to call this my personal game of the year. I just love this game so much and Relic are awesome developers for giving out 3 different types of game modes throughout the year.

    Looking forward to Chaos Rising. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

  30. Mac says:

    That’s exactly the same experience i had with it.

  31. Ira says:

    For some reason Relic still hasn’t enabled drag and drop custom map installs, like CoH and DOW1 had. If I had one giant wish for DoW2 it would be that. There were a TON of great custom maps for DoW1, but the mapping scene for DoW2 has been very quiet because it is such a pain to install custom maps. As a mapper this makes me sad.

  32. Tweakd says:

    I didn’t enjoy DoW2 for a number of reasons. The main one being that i enjoy the meta game that base building brings. But i guess it’s not aimed at me.

  33. Vinraith says:

    DoW2 disapppointed me on a number of levels, though like Tweakd I’ve largely come to the conclusion it simply wasn’t aimed at me. The original DoW and its first expansion were fun games for skirmish, but their single player campaigns were, IMO, completely useless. Linear, scripted missions are a chore, and I’ve always thought that story telling works at cross purposes to game play in strategy games. When Dark Crusae came along I was thrilled, finally I could play in a universe I adore (I’m an old tabletop 40K player) and have some actual control over where and when I fought. The metamap campaign had ebb and flow, and they even managed to include a little story without completely screwing up the strategic context of the battles. Soulstorm was a half-ass job, needless to say, but after some modding it, too, provided a fairly sound experience on another metamap.

    I had really hoped, despite some complaints about the implementation, that DoW might mainstream the RTS metamap campaign. Sure, Rise of Nations did it best, but DoW was a more popular franchise and even with the flaws surely people could see how much better this kind of campaign was than something linear and scripted, right?

    Wrong, apparently. DoW2 went more heavily narrative, always a bad idea in a strategy game, and removed a fair bit of strategic depth from the game by scrapping base building entirely. The result was that I spent more time watching little guys shoot at other little guys from behind cover than anything else. They turned the game into “tactical wargame lite,” just like Company of Heroes. I suppose a lot of people really enjoy that, and I suppose that’s lovely for them. If I want tactics of that sort, I’ll break out my Close Combat or Combat Mission discs, or for that matter play Men of War.

    So I’m left pinning all my hopes on a Rise of Nations sequel that will never come (and yes, even RoN already undermined the metamap idea by dumbing it down to uselessness in Rise of Legends, *sigh*). Maybe I’m the only person that wants to create his own story in an RTS game rather than have one used as a carrot to pull him through linear (or quasi-linear in DoW2′s case) missions?

    • VHATI says:

      that might be the problem. seems you want more attack move. Instead of watching your troops, you should be micro managing them using all thier special abilities and performing flanking maneuvers. or cutting off retreat paths.

      The little bit of tactical depth removed from base building is made up for by hero selection and upgrades.

      Instead of base raping in an attempt to destroy a key building, you base rape to destroy key units that retreated. Lookie there, same tactical depth.

    • Vinraith says:

      But no strategic depth, which was my whole point. What’s going on in a given skirmish encounter would be less of an issue if the context of said skirmish encounters weren’t so very, very uninteresting.

    • malkav11 says:

      You aren’t the only one. I know Tom Chick, for example, was extolling the virtues of EndWar for that sort of thing. And then of course there’s the whole Total War franchise and its enormous success.

      And I find skirmish battles less tiresome with some strategic map wrapping, but I definitely prefer the heavily scripted high story approach (or I suppose Men of War’s mad attention to detail). I’ve never met an RTS that does strategy -or- tactics as well as a proper turn-based game, so I’d rather get a scripted thrill ride.

      DoWII goes a bit better by mixing in some RPG. More so than Warcraft III ever did. If it had been less repetitive and stronger on the scripted missions they’d really have had something. As it is, it’s still pretty awesome because of the coop.

    • Funky Badger says:

      Hearts of Iron 3, dude. Hearts of Iron 3…

    • Vandelay says:

      Now I really want to play RoN again.

  34. jsutcliffe says:

    I really can’t get into DoW 2 — perhaps because I was expecting something more similar to DoW 1. I’ve tried three times, and never progressed past the second mission. I’m glad at least that I picked it up during a Steam sale so I didn’t blow $50 on it.

    It does look extremely pretty though, I’ll give it that.

  35. TheSombreroKid says:

    this is without a doubt my number 2 game of the year, behind batman AA.

  36. Kleevah says:

    I’m not a big fan of the DoW universe itself but I still enjoyed the first game a great deal. Probably because it’s a very good RTS regardless of setting. The second however felt more like an action game than anything RTS, and with a great emphasis on the story it just didn’t do anything for me. :\

  37. Keith Nemitz says:

    WHAT? Someone went off and made a sequel to ‘Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble!’ without telling me? …the author of Dangerous High… and so on…

  38. Optimaximal says:

    it’s worth remembering that it was only with the expansions did Dawn of War really get nailed down into being an actually damn-entertaining single-player RTS.

    Agreed – quite why the majesty of the Order/Disorder setup was never really repeated is beyond me.

  39. Bluebreaker says:

    When I played the beta (or better called, DEMO), I felt an urge to go and buy World in Conflict.

  40. Rive says:

    I played this right when it came out and found the single-player more fun than the multi-player. The MP felt just too reduced to me. Im playing this right now again after a friend picked up the THQ Deal on Steam and i got to say: Its one of the best coop experiences i ever had and i cant wait for the chaos expansion. That said, i really miss the banter of the Space Marines in the first game.

    “There is no innocence. Only degrees of guilt.”

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dawn_of_War

  41. Pani says:

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed playing DoW2 this year. More specifically the coop version of the campaign and the last stand. I don’t think my old geriatric brain can handle more than a couple of units, nor am I a big fan of intense PvP that so many people swear by, therefore the coop modes in DoW2 were perfect for me.

    I’d love to see more games in this vein.

    And more last stand options…

  42. bleeters says:

    My main niggle towards Dawn of War II’s singleplayer was just how repeatively identical each level eventually became, and not in the sense of constantly re-using the same handful of maps. What bugged me far more was dropping into a map controlled by tyranids and, rightfully so, seeing them infest every square inch, before re-deploying on another map of Eldar and seeing the exact same God damn thing. It never really gave them the feeling of diversity that they deserve when you can largely counter the armies of Orks, Eldar or Tyranids by hiding behind a rock and throwing grenades.

    • Dominic White says:

      Yeah, I wish they’d used different AI styles for the three enemy sides in singleplayer. The first mission where you fight the Tyranids is how I hoped it’d work for the whole game. They don’t come at you in cohesive squads – they’re a swarm. a neverending flood of chitin and claws that you just have to hold out against for that little while longer.

      After that mission, though, they’re back to standard behaviour, moving in nice orderly blobs. So, yeah, my main gripe about DoW2 singleplayer was that they had the opportunity to drop all shred of traditional RTS balance and make it feel like 40k fluff, rather than a videogame abstraction of it. They didn’t, which is a shame.

  43. Sigmar says:

    DoWII is indeed an epic but I have to say, I think Company of Heroes pips it to the post in the RTS stakes race. I guess it all depends on which subject matter you prefer. After watching Saving Private Ryan (again !) I spent about another 3 weeks completely replaying the whole CoHs campaign – annoyingly though I’m still cr@p at in multiplayer :(

    Sigmar
    my WFB blog

  44. Sigmar says:

    DoWII is indeed an epic but I have to say, I think Company of Heroes pips it to the post in the RTS race. I guess it all depends on which subject matter you prefer. After watching Saving Private Ryan (again !) I spent about another 3 weeks completely replaying the whole CoHs campaign – annoyingly though I’m still cr@p at in multiplayer :(

    Sigmar
    my WFB blog

  45. Arathain says:

    Sea-snakes, huh? Hurm.

  46. MadMatty says:

    I played DoW and the DoW 2 demo, but it never caught me- the hitpoints system always seemed a step down from the armour penetration & hit location models from the 40k boardgame. The hitpoints system also makes it profitable for your entire squad to shoot at 1 model at a time, which looks ridicoulous and very un-war like.

    • MadMatty says:

      A lot of my 40k fanboy friends were dissappointed with the lesser amount of troops in DoW- cant say i have problems with THAT myself, but i can understand their feelings on the subject. I prefer to play mass swarm games like Supreme Commander, which is the RTS i´ve been sticking with for the last 3 years – great multiplayer ( even tho the ingame matchmaking is bolloxx)

  47. MadMatty says:

    lesser amount of troops in DoW -> 2 i mean. damn alcohol.