By Alec Meer on December 14th, 2009 at 7:40 pm.
Crivens – and here were we all thinking the first L4D2 DLC would involve fictional hoary old rockers the Midnight Riders. In fact, Valve are doing something gosh-wow-what? different.
First DLC The Passing arrives in Spring. It features four very familiar faces. Clue: it’s not Zippy, George, Bungle and Geoffrey.
There will be much rejoicing. Except by people who don’t do that sort of thing.
Throwing this up quickly because BREAKING NEWS, but official details are copypastaed a little further below if you want to hop straight to them.
Obviously, though, it’s going to raise further (and perhaps biggest-ever) hackles amongst the boycotters and folk who own only L4D1. If it turns out to be paid DLC (all we have in that regard is “Pricing will be announced closer to launch”) that’ll only get worse. Which does make it a bit of a mysterious move, as it could generate a rhino-weight of bad press in an instant.
An idea occurs to me, however. Perhaps there’ll be associated DLC for L4D1 too, with the new chaps sticking their heads into a coda for L4D1 – the title ‘The Passing’ somewhat hints at this, in a way. The Southerners go North and the Northerners go South. That’d be lovely, and would defuse the brewing storm. There’s an equal chance Valve are just flexing sadistic muscle, of course – but they are prone to smoke and mirrors, so let’s wait it out a bit. It’s not hard to imagine them sitting back and laughing as the internet turns bright red and blows steam out of its ears, knowing they’re about to make it look rather silly.
But for now, let’s try to thrill to the concept and worry about the details once we know more of them. Will the new (i.e. old) survivors be playable in L4D2 in any form? Is it something to do with this new mode? What does it mean for the story – is someone going to die? Romance? Feuds? Could some of the old guys be zombified? Is it a setup for Zombies 8 Brains (insert own terrible pun here)? Why do birds suddenly appear?
These are all the answers we’re getting for now:
Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life, Portal, Team Fortress, and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced the first game add-on for its co-operative zombie thriller, Left 4 Dead 2 (L4D2), is in development and targeted for release in early 2010.
Dubbed “The Passing,” the first game add-on for L4D2 brings the original Left 4 Dead (L4D1) Survivors down south for a meeting with the L4D2 cast, while delivering new single-player, multiplayer and co-operative gameplay for the PC and Xbox 360.
Targeted for release in early spring, “The Passing” takes place just after the Dead Center campaign of L4D2. Set in a small town in rural Georgia, players assume the role of the L4D2 Survivors as they meet with the L4D1 characters.
In addition to the new co-operative campaign and associated narrative, “The Passing” will include new arenas for Survival, Versus and Scavenge mode and introduce a new co-operative challenge mode of play. The Passing will also include a new “uncommon common” zombie class, melee weapon, and firearm.
“The Passing will become the most important campaign in the Left 4 Dead story, as all the Survivors are being called together in one campaign,” said Doug Lombardi, VP of marketing at Valve. “It will also be a huge offering of new gameplay content, with something new for every game mode plus a new uncommon common and weaponry.”
I wouldn’t worry about the boycotters. I should imagine they all own L4D2 by now…
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“Imagine” being the operative word.
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I don’t. When I boycott something I don’t wuss out like most of the cowards out there. Be a cold day in hell before I buy L4D2.
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I don’t know what you’re talking about. I, for one, am not buying anything from Valve.
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@Kamos
Personally I wouldn’t go that far. I’ll certainly still buy Episode 3, I’d almost certainly buy a Portal 2 if it came down the pipe, and if they introduced a new single-player property odds are good I’d buy that too. What the L4D debacle (and to a lesser extent the evolution of TF2 into something I no longer want to play) has taught me is not to invest in multiplayer shooters, no matter how promising they sound. This is something I used to know, but that Valve briefly caused me to forget. Lesson re-learned.
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See Vinraith, this is you coming into threads about multiplayer shooters and telling us why multiplayer shooters are bad. Its grumpy!
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@Senethro:
No, this is several other people dumping on Valve as a whole and me saying I still like Valve, but they’ve reminded me that multiplayer shooters aren’t for me. “Aren’t for me” doesn’t remotely translate to “bad,” indeed quite a lot of people seem to love them. My opinions are just that, mine, they aren’t supposed to be comments on the objective quality of a given genre, even I’m not that painfully arrogant. Why do you insist on taking things I say in the most negative light possible? That seems far grumpier than anything I’m actually saying.
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“Why do you insist on taking things I say in the most negative light possible?”
I would like to introduce you to my friend, The Internet.
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predictable
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predictably awesome
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Predictable in that you wrote about it before and said they’d meet up, or that you’re a psychic and we should take your word for it?
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Boring!
Midnight Riders please.
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If they made the new mode something like Left 8 Dead I’d be in heaven. So many people to friendly-fire!
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Zoey doesn’t look so impressed by this DLC.
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That’s actually the poster for Crash Course. But really, would you be thrilled to have Nick hitting on you when you’re trying to kill zombies?
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Oh so excited. If they continue supporting l4d1 as well with this content, I will be so happy.
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Can we have L4D vs L4D2 versus mode please Valve?
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Yea, the survivors fighting amongst themselves over some dwindling resource would be a pretty realistic depiction of how the human race usually behaves. A Counterstrike game in the middle of a zombie apocalypse sounds kind of cool. Plus you could have the added fun by making them have to co-operate to survive the early part of the campaign with an interesting calculation the teams would have to make as to when to to backstab the other side.
On the general point though this will confirm that Valve regards L4D as its red-headed stepchild. Compare all the love being currently lavished on TF2 (which I greatly appreciate, the Soldier vs. Demoman war adds extra spice to every round) and now L4D2. Seems odd that they couldn’t be arsed to at least put some people on the job of keeping L4D looking shiny and interesting seeing as that approach seems to have served them so well in other games.
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Sounds good, though I’ve yet to buy L4D2 – waiting for a sale – £20 or less is my limit for it.
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’tis currently £19.99 from GAME store. Same price online, but out of stock:
http://www.game.co.uk/Games/PC-Games/Left-4-Dead-2/~r343030/
According to resident bargain expert Lewis P, you can get it for £18.99 from PC World if you make use of their price-match policy.
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I don’t recall Valve creating Team Fortress and Counter-Strike (and only partially involved in Portal). Interesting news, however.
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Well Valve are the creations, in PR logic.
In that they hired all the creators of those mods and now they work at Valve, therefore ARE valve, therefore Valve created Team Fortress and Counter-Strike.
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*ducks incoming shitstorm*
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Sarcastic snark fight between Francis and Nick please.
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Oh my god. Seconded.
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Heheheh. Awesome. Yay Valve, making my day with some cool news! Very much looking forward to this :)
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16-player scavenge mode please. Two survivor teams (old and new) competing against each other to get the most fuel, while the 8 infected try their best to ruin their plans.
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I hate social occasions.
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wait, they are charging for the PC DLC???
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@iSoLateD1: We don’t know. Maybe they’re talking about 360 DLC?
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Indeed, chances are it will be free for PC and a small cost (around £5 in their points system) for the 360 – which if I remember right will basically be to cover costs and pay Microsoft their pound of flesh.
Though that said, now that steam has it’s DLC system implemented fully, they might decide to charge a small fee for the PC too.
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The only way for DLC to be free on 360 is if it has no achievements, as Microsoft decide the pricing based on quantity of achievements.
As this has ten of the above, it won’t be free there.
Knowing Valve’s track record with the PC makes me optimistic about it being free for us though.
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Crackdown had patched in free additional Achievements, though I guess it’s because the game shipped with only 900 gamerscores.
So, if no achievement make it free, then why don’t do it? Most of us can happily ignore those achievement ‘hos
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I predict a 48% higher price for europe tier 2.
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Slow news day.
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Wow, they’re really aiming to underwhelm with this one. I was expecting they give us all free sports cars, pacific islands, and millions of dollars. I mean, just a campaign, the old cast everyone likes, new weapons, other new maps, and a new mode? WEAK.
Or… hold on a second…..oh.
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“players assume the role of the L4D2 Survivors as they meet with the L4D1 characters.”
It don’t say L4D1 “survivors”.
Zoey Zombie?
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Tei: You could be onto something there.
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But they’re carriers! They can’t be zombified!
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hydra9, PleasingFungus :
“THIRILLS! and untold tale connecting no mercy to death toll”
Oh.. now that I read the image, is impossible, or Zoey will never play has a no-zombie in Death Toll.
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…Tei, that was an image from Crash Course…
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Zoe > Rochelle
Coach > Louis
Francis > Ellis
John Cusack == Bill
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YOU TAKE THAT BACK ABOUT LOUIS, RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
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Make me
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@someguy who sucks at l4d
Make me
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Zing
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Francis: “I hate nice suits.”
Nick: “Yeah? Well I hate dirty brain-damaged asshole bikers.”
Francis: “You better watch your mouth, pretty boy.”
Nick: “What, are you having Deliverance fantasies? ‘Cause Ellis is over there.”
Ellis: “Whut ya’ll talkin’ ‘bou–”
Francis: “If you’re such a gambler, Nick, how many teeth you want to bet on whether you stay up after I hit you with this shotgun?”
Nick: “Like you have any to spare. Hey, what’s it like being a Midnight Riders groupie? That has to be some sweaty bear sex.”
Francis: “I hate you. I hate you.”
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@elle: I fear this is the intro to some serious slash/fic.
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Louis already destroyed Francis in Crash Course, “Why don’t you take you chaps, and your little waistcoat and go and find a parade”…
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So there I was searching “zippy george bungle geoffrey l4d2 dlc?” and excitedly clicked the link.
Now you’ve crushed my dreams, Meer.
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Any excuse for more zombie maiming is a good excuse. :)
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“Pricing will be announced closer to launch.”
That sure sounds promising.
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With all the L4D2 and TF2 news, I imagine most of Valve is busy working on those two titles. I guess it’s up to our own Cargo Cult to heroically finish HL2 Episode 3 all on his own!
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Velvet Fist, Iron Glove: Always a pleasure to meet a fellow Acolyte! And yes, with him (partially) behind the helm, I fear naught for Episode 3.
Also, I really like the sound of this passing business! Didn’t realise how much I liked the first survivors… wonder if it makes sense though. Did they really pass each other? I suppose so…
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@VelvetFist, IronGlove
I totally wrote some awesome fanfic that I will donate as the story element. I can’t give away much, but G-Man is actually Gordon’s mother FROM THE FUTURE. Alyx is also a dude.
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Frosty.
You are clearly threatening Valve’s IP with your plagiarism, how you attained such information, theft or internal leak will be investigated.
We, acting on behalf of Valve will agree to take this no further, if you agree to cease and desist any projects, or fiction with said information and sign a NDA for any other information you may have attained.
I would go on to say that thanks to you, Episode 3 will be delayed by at least 6 months, as you’ve given away integral parts of the plot that will need to be rewritten with new voice acting, and game play changed.
I would ask that the community be tolerant with us (Valve) while we make these changes, and in no way seek to bring harm to Frosty for his part in the delay. I would especially advise against doing anything so reckless as hunting him down in real life and beating him to death with a crowbar (on sale now at the Valve store).
Yours faithfully.
Valve Lawyer #206
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I would hope what they mean if it does cost is something like free if you own l4d1. Costs 10 bucks if not.
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All this grumbling surprises me somewhat.
I, for one, am looking forward to decapitating zombies with a fire axe as Louis.
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And so the money milking begins.
Glad i was smart enough not to buy that crap
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Lobotomist: I don’t think anyone who reads L4D comment threads is unaware of your position. You can stop regurgitating it every single time, now.
Thanks.
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Yea, how can you be so bloody stupid to post a comment with your opinion in a comment thread designed to voice your opinion? Boycotter scum…
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It’s less that he’s voicing his opinion, and more that he’s mind numbingly abrasive about it, often to the point that anyone who disagrees with him are brain washed corporate sheep.
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If that’s being right, etc…
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To be fair, everyone whos licking Valves arse on this subject also post the same opinion over and over in every L4D thread, yet Lobotomist is the bad person because hes not happy about what Valve have done?
I agree with him, I think Valve have done this all wrong and L4D is an empty shell of a game now, with L4D2 looming over it.
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It’s not hard to imagine them sitting back and laughing as the internet turns bright red and blows steam out of its ears, knowing they’re about to make it look rather silly.
I don’t want to be That Guy, but isn’t this basically the same thing that was said when L4D2 was first announced and a lot of people were assuming it was going to be DLC or, at worst, a cheap expansion pack?
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Apparently there’s already traces of a “fallen survivor” Special Infected in the game’s files, plus that quote from Chet Faliszek: “They have plans for the original survivors, and they are neither dead or undead”
What that implies I don’t know, but it doesn’t sound like they’ll be playable. Which makes sense, given that else they’d probably need to rerecord a ton of dialogue.
http://www.wegame.com/forums/Left-4-Dead/SPOILERS-6th-Uncommon-Infected-revealed-PIC/
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Fallen Survivor was cut. They recycled the model for cola guy in Dead Center
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Two years since the Orange Box, now, and the sum total of information leaked about Episode 3 is a couple of concept art images IIRC. Considering that Ep2 had a trailer on the end of Ep 1 and STILL took them better than 2 years to release, I’m starting to get concerned.
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@Vinraith
We know there is going to be a deaf character in it too.
But yes. This looks a bit turd.
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We do? I must have missed that piece of information. But yeah, if trailer precedes release by 2 years, not having a trailer 2 years after Episode 2 is… distressing.
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@Vinraith: Ahem.
There is a reason that there isn’t a trailer for Episode Three, you know. VALVe felt that Episode Two changed significantly from what the trailer at the end of Episode One suggested, and realised that having trailers before the product was finished just made things confusing.
Episode Three is being worked on, and the sheer fact that VALVe works in seperate groups means that more L4D doesn’t mean less Half-Life.
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@Vinraith: I generally assume everyone knows more than I do. Perhaps I am wrong. It either pops up in this video or the second part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2LnP3JgbM0&feature=PlayList&p=A38571652E39947F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
Interesting watching all round though.
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“There is a reason that there isn’t a trailer for Episode Three, you know.”
I really didn’t. If what you’re saying is true, that’s very good.
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I’m not sure about the happy thoughts. In theory, based on prior information, it appeared that Valve had three teams: one working on EPISODE III, one working on L4D and one working on PORTAL 2. But when Kim Swift left last week, she said she’d been working on L4D2 instead, indicating that this neat division of Valve into teams may not have panned out this way.
What I am hoping for is that Valve, having accepted that the episodic thing hasn’t worked out, has decided to turn EPISODE III into a full length (or at least much longer than the previous two episodes, say 6 hours plus or something?) and much more ambitious game to justify the wait and do justice to the apparent conclusion of the G-Man storyline. I consider this outcome as likely as BioWare announcing tomorrow that KotOR 3 is complete and will ship alongside the MMORPG with no extra charge. With enclosed free cake.
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This if full of WIN!
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@ Beast: It is pretty much the same thing they said last time. People are foaming at the mouth over nothing. And to be blunt, I can’t help but feel that comments like that are just deliberate stirring.
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How about less left 4 dead and more HALF LIFE EPISODE 3!!!
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Don’t worry, when Valve releases Episode 3 in…another five years…it will be the best game ever…ah, screw it.
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and still no news about episode 3… :P
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Call me when Valve goes gack to single player games please, I may take a interest on their games again. I’m not asking for a trailer of EP 3, just some hint,a teaser, whatever. Knowing it´s coming before the Sun implodes is not enough.
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Imagine a boot stamping on a headcrab face, forever.
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I would eagerly pay for the opportunity to play as the old survivors IN the new game, with all the new stuff. Even if it’s just one campaign. I’m trying, but I don’t like the new characters as much.
Anyway I think it’s pretty clear what’s going to happen here. The new survivors will be playable and will run into the old survivors in some minor way – like they’ll have to gather gas for them from the opposite side of a barricade or some such thing. They’re not all going to be active at the same time, fighting zombies together. The two groups will pass each other and go on their way.
L4D3, coming out in, oh, say, 16 months, will feature the return of the original crew, since most people like them better than the new crew. In an effort to shake things up, they may possibly replace Louis and Bill with Coach and Ellis, or maybe with two brand new characters. Zoe and Francis will definitely come back, though. Mark my words. Mark them!
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@Jesse but…louis is my name WHY do you want to get rid me? :(
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L4D3, coming out in, oh, say, 16 months, will feature the return of the original crew, since most people like them better than the new crew. In an effort to shake things up, they may possibly replace Louis and Bill with Coach and Ellis, or maybe with two brand new characters. Zoe and Francis will definitely come back, though.Mark my words. Mark them!I like Francis and Bill much more than Coach and “TF2 Scout” Ellis. Hope you are wrong there.
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It would be great to see 8 player coop sliding its way in :O Could make L4D2 worth the money…
Although I would love to see some sort of exp system mode work its way in…
Wait, i’m just describing Killing Floor.. well, both game could use vehicles! Now my opinion is valid…
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I’ve always said the midnight riders looked like metal versions of the l4d1 chars, BUT DID ANYONE LISTEN TO ME?
Yay though, no paying please? After everything they’ve done for TF2 to tell us to pay would be..dissapointing.
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my guess is that they will release episode 3 together with half life 3… in 2013 or so
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I always liked the original cast more, because they are glorious horror-movie stereotypes, instead of just stereotypes.
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They won’t make us pay. The 360 players are another story, which is why they don’t just announce the pricing right now. They probably aren’t decided on it yet.
My greatest hope is that it will be a new campaign for both games that’s essentially played as two campaigns in parallel. Four L4D1 players will play the original survivors, while at the same time four L4D2 players will be the new guys, each working through separate parts of the levels, removing obstacles from each other’s way and stuff.
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And to clarify, the charging-for-stuff on the 360 thing isn’t Valves call. Microsoft don’t allow free content.
Seriously, they’re that controlling.
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This is how it is going (read: i would love it) to be. L4D1 and L4D2 players play through the same level, in the same game, as both groups of survivors, assisting each other in funky ways to get to the end.
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8 v 8 officially supported? yes please.
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Early 2010… so, mid to late 2010.
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This update doesn’t have any achievements, that’s the crash course promo poster in the pic.
Correct if wrong.
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That was @: “The only way for DLC to be free on 360 is if it has no achievements, as Microsoft decide the pricing based on quantity of achievements.
As this has ten of the above, it won’t be free there.
Knowing Valve’s track record with the PC makes me optimistic about it being free for us though.”
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I wish they would do a campaign where you play as one team, and you are one step behind the other team. The other team does what Left4Dead teams do and sets fire to places, blow up bridges and makes a mess of things that the second team has to survive through. You could do a crescendo event where the !st team sets off an alarm and the 2nd team has to deal with it.
The other team would be completely scripted and unplayable, but it would be fun to see them through the eyes of survivors just trying to make it through town.
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Delete-o-tron is sweeping and harsh, but fair.
Anyway I’m pretty much looking forward to this. L4D2 has been more fun than I expected, and is much more of a Valve game than L4D terms of polish. That sort of makes sense, considering the differing design ovens the two games were baked in. Perhaps Valve look at it in the same way and hence might, well, support it this time.
I’d like that.
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Race debate is removed in its entirety, as will be any attempts to restart it. This isn’t the place for that kind of discussion, and it most certainly isn’t the place for the kind of prejudice some of you expressed in it.
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Thumbs up for the moderating! Thanks. :)
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sounds INSANE
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Awesome news.
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This sounds sweet! I hope we can play as all 8 charaters. With 8 charaters we might be able to have 8 player campains. That would be AWESOME.
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@Undeadninja – oh yes. Eight player co-op please.
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Eight versus eight sounds positively nuts. Yes please Valve.
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i’m pretty sure anyone who bought left4dead & not left4dead2 doesn’t give a shit at this stage.
I know i don’t, i’ve not played l4d since l4d2 was announced and this isn’t going to change my mind.
If they were charging similar amounts for the laugh riot that is tf2 i’d prolly pay it but l4d isn’t a good enough game to carry the burnden of so much cash.
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Why did you stop playing L4D1 if you are boycotting L4D2? Isn’t that shooting yourself in the foot a little? It’s still a fun game, with loads of custom campaigns out there.
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@TheSombreroKid
I’ve not bought L4D2 yet, but that’s just because it’s still over £20, however, I’m sure there’ll be some kind of offer when this DLC comes out, and that will be enough for me to buy it…
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So… I’m guessing that the L4D survivors in their armored icecream truck meet up with the L4D2 survivors in their stock car.
Vehicle level?
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Yeah, after Dead Center they’re in the car, aren’t they? And doesn’t the car run out of fuel in… what, Dark Carnival? If this goes inbetween, my bet is they don’t get out of the car; maybe a scenario where the southerners have to clear the way for the original cast.
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It doesn’t run out of fuel at the start of Dark Carnival, the road is blocked by tons of abandoned vehicles. I think someone says unless Ellis can turn the stock car into a monster truck they’re not going any further so they abandon the car & proceed on foot.
Whatever they release it sounds like it’ll be fun.
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@malibu stacy
There is also a comment by ellis on top of the one you just mentioned ( i think by coach?) where he
mentions at the start of DC that the car cant get very far on a full tank of fuel, indicating that they have ran out of fuel or are low on fuel. I guess its just a mistake by Valve of putting the two clips in, because they indicate two different reasons for the car stopping.
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Not all. I´m not buying shit from Valve anymore after this bullshit.
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How to flog your horse to death and beyond: A business model by Valve Software.
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L4D is a good game as long as you play with three friends who you know very well using VoIP. Hours of fun await any who do this. Playing alone in random versus matches will make the game become stale quite quickly. So instead of slagging L4D off (1&2) just convince some friends to buy it. Get on Skype. And Enjoy…please.
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How telling it is that a great portion of the comments on this thread are either saying “I don’t care” or “Shut up and release Episode 3.”
RPS is definitely the place to be for me.
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Yes that’s just what this place needs. More people loudly proclaiming to the world how little they care about the games in the articles on this here website just to emphasize their total lack of care for the games in question.
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@Malibu
To be fair, it’s slightly different. The reason the comments are generated is due to the developer behind it, not an urge to hurt the game. It’s a group of people saying they want Valve to concentrate/release more detail on the games we really want, not one which has been rather dividing in Valve’s community.
It’s not a case of stupidity going on something about MW2 and saying “I hate MW2!” It’s a case of people looking at Valve related stuff and saying, “But we want to know about your other projects.”
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@Frosty
RPS probably isn’t the place for you if are with the people who say “I don’t care” and “shut up and talking about something else”, as the authors only post about things they want to post about. Clearly, those that are saying they don’t care about this are of differing opinions to the people that make this website.
It is great to hear that Valve are obviously wanting to support L4D2. This update already sounds as if they are going to include more than pretty much any other multiplayer game around (excluding TF2, of course.)
Some news on Episode 3 would be nice though.
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“How telling it is that a great portion of the comments on this thread are either saying “I don’t care” or “Shut up and release Episode 3.””
While I’m not unsympathetic to people who want knews on ep. 3, it should be pointed out that L4D2 threads have been a very hostile place for people whose opinions don’t fall into the “LOL boycotters u suk” or “*insert complaint about Valve here*” categories. I don’t typically bother to post about the game, and I doubt I’m the only one. Though to be fair, this thread has managed not to degenerate totally into a blazing train wreck of The Stupid, which is kind of nice.
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@Vandelay
The comments were not directed at the RPS writers. Gods no. They were at Valve.
But I won’t talk anymore. I failed to explain what I meant properly and thus I sounded like a idiot. I won’t make myself a bigger idiot by continuing the argument.
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Too much Pessimism.
That’s a lot of content, which will almost-def be free to PC users.
I don’t understand much of the hate scattered around here.
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Please let this be 8 player co-op!!!! Would be amazing!!!
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Some mod servers have 8 vs. 8 games and I know a lot of people enjoy it. I find it becomes too much of a different game. Things are really frantic and you lose all the tension of those spots where you can break a team with a great smoke or charge. There are just too many survivors so the infected can never get good momentum going.
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Also: 8v8 for the win :) Please hook it up, Valve.
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Had been following L4D1 since pre-release and playing pretty much every day since, even entered into tournaments for it with for fun with mates. <3 it to pieces.
Turns out L4D2 is hard to enjoy. It feels more fake and old than it should. I think it is because of the re-used and low quality props in the maps.
Say what you want about optimising, but I can't be immersed in L4D2 as 'a new experience' it when I see the same car, bus, and van for the 99th time that was also in L4D1 just now with a different colour. They should think more about people like me who do nothing else but play L4D.
Still, I'll play this. If it's anything like the 8v8 mod for L4D1 as some are speculating, it will be good.
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I can definately see how 8 vs. 8 in the regular L4D2 gameplay would hurt the balance. That’s why I’m hoping it’s a specifically tailored campaign, where the two teams of four split up occasionally to perform specific tasks, then meet up for certain big events. That would be perfects for versus, where the special infected then have to divide themselves up as well, to tackle two groups in different places.
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I think they will probably work it to where you are trading off between the two groups to where you meet one at a halfway mark and go from there. But i dunno, i do think the 4 is a great number for this game and i’ve also played on some 8v8 servers with mods and it just is way too chaotic. That’s just my opinion, i’m sure valve will find some way to balance it out though, they always do. Despite all the short-comings of l4d2 i still think it is an awesome game, it just needs a little more tweaking in my opinion.
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