Rock, Paper, Shotgun

Will There Ever Be A Crusader Kings 2?

By Kieron Gillen on June 21st, 2010 at 6:30 pm.

John Walker, yesterday.

And I don’t mean that in a speculative way I mean it in a… well, let me explain. At the weekend, Vadermath dropped me a line saying that Paradox have created a facebook account saying that when 25,000 people become fans, they’ll announce a sequel to 2004′s dynastic al strategy game Crusader Kings. The campaign started on Friday. As of now, they have – er – 968. So – to return to the opening question – will there ever be a Crusader Kings 2? Not at this rate, there won’t.

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67 Comments »

  1. 21/06/2010 at 18:35 Vinraith says:

    I’m sincerely hoping Johan was kidding with that one. CK (with Deus Vult) is my favorite Paradox-developed game, which is saying a lot since I love all of them, I’d hate for a sequel to be dependent on an inane social networking stunt.

    • 21/06/2010 at 18:52 Kieron Gillen says:

      I wouldn’t worry too much, I suspect.

      KG

    • 21/06/2010 at 18:59 Vinraith says:

      @Kieron

      I’m not, but it does seem like a counter-productive stunt, doesn’t it? If you’re going to make it anyway, why take the risk that you won’t get anything near that kind of fan response, thus making you look silly?

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:29 Alexander Norris says:

      I don’t think it’s a social networking stunt so much as a means of gauging interest in CK2 before deciding whether or not to start work on it, Vinraith. Considering Paradox’s CEO’s statement about expecting Victoria 2 to be a net loss for the company, I can see why this makes sense.

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:47 Vinraith says:

      @Alexander

      That’s the possibility that scares me. However, I refuse to believe that Paradox is so out of touch with their own customer base as to believe Facebook is a reasonable place to gauge interest.

    • 21/06/2010 at 22:52 PHeMoX says:

      “I don’t think it’s a social networking stunt so much as a means of gauging interest in CK2 before deciding whether or not to start work on it,”

      I doubt they would be satisfied with 25.000 people that would buy their sequel though, especially knowing 25.000 people might more or less just acknowledge the ‘classic’ by joining a facebook group.

      I mean what does it REALLY mean anyway? I’ve joined a couple of facebook groups and I hear nothing from most of them, let alone really participate in them.

      When it comes to the game itself, I’d have to dive into the archives to find out what Crusader Kings was all about. I’m probably more interested in a Crusader sequel instead (the sci-fi 2d platform / action game).

    • 22/06/2010 at 15:49 Nikolaj says:

      @Alexander: Paradox’s CEO has been pessimistic about Victoria 2 since before they starting making it, and the only reason they are making it, is because a lot of fans wanted them to, and told them so on their forums. I don’t see why facebook should be a better place for Paradox to get in touch with their fans.

    • 01/07/2010 at 22:03 vashtalelq says:

      CK was great but it certainly is not the best paradox game. Ive always thought that CK elements in EUIII would be great to see, for example research spreading through provinces and the dynastic line, feudals or at least governors taking care of provinces, loyalty and grabing titles (at least this could be done instead of just claiming title CB) They tried to do something similar in EU Rome but it was just horrific

  2. 21/06/2010 at 18:37 abhishek says:

    Call me cynical but it’s not like they will cancel a product in development already if they don’t get the requisite number of Facebook ‘fans’. This amounts to basically an announcement that the game is coming anyway. Unless they are trying to gauge possible interest in making a new one, in which case Facebook is a dumb idea.

    • 21/06/2010 at 22:55 PHeMoX says:

      +1

      “Unless they are trying to gauge possible interest in making a new one, in which case Facebook is a dumb idea.”

      Yes, that would totally be a dumb idea, unless the Facebook group turns into one with over half a million members and makes the news… which isn’t going to happen.

  3. 21/06/2010 at 18:40 DrazharLn says:

    976 now, they’re creeping closer. Though, facebook might not be the best place to put up the link, I imagine most gaming communities are linked by forums and stuff rather than facebook, making the normal exponential increase of facebook groups unlikely.

  4. 21/06/2010 at 18:51 Nakki says:

    Crusader Kings was a good idea with utterly crappy implementation. Though I got to admit, the implementation in every single Paradox game after Europa Universalis II except maybe Hearts of Iron series was pretty crappy and the games actually became good only after expansion, or in many cases, expansions (Europa Universalis III especially).

    Still, I pay for the games since no other developer develops anything similiar, and oh well, eventually the games become good.

    Oh yeah, and I did have a funny 5 player MP game playing dukes of England a long time ago. The interbreeding between me and another duke who were brothers was rather interesting. The other guy eventually even inherited some of MY vassals lands in Ireland after getting all his sons killed (or just killing them). Sadly it all ended when heathens decided to sail to England and conquer pretty much all of it.

  6. 21/06/2010 at 18:57 Jeremy says:

    I don’t know if Facebook is that dumb of an idea. 94% of the world is on there, so, when the word gets out it seems like true fans would clearly sign up. It seems like they’re trying to drum up a legitimate interest, and if it’s not there then they won’t make it. I actually find the transparency a bit refreshing, instead of them guessing at a game to make, they allow the fans to have a hand in deciding the future. It actually makes sense to me. Why complain when the developer has empowered the fans?

    Is this a legitimate page though?

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:01 Rich says:

      400 million people is hardly 94% of the world, but I’m just being pedantic.

      Also, 25,000 doesn’t sound like a large customer base. It’s probably intended as a sample though.

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:02 Vinraith says:

      It’s a legitimate page, there’s a link from Paradox’s forums and the post in question was put up by their lead developer.

      94% of the world is on there

      No, it’s not, and one of the most annoying things about Facebook is the perception by some people that everyone in the world is active on it.

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:37 Gritz says:

      Maybe not 94% of the world but probably at least 94% of potential Paradox Game customers.

    • 21/06/2010 at 19:44 Vinraith says:

      @Gritz

      Most hardcore strategy fans I know aren’t fans of social networking. That’s purely anecdotal, of course, but I seriously doubt that there’s as much overlap between Paradox customers and active social networkers as you suggest.

    • 21/06/2010 at 20:29 Clovis says:

      Wow, we really need to get off old-man Vinraith’s lawn ;-)

      I don’t see how a company trying to get their players to do some free facebook advertising for them is so bad. I’m pretty sure the grognards not on facebook can set up and account and “like” this game in about 5 minutes.

      You were trolling a bit, no? Calling an asynchronous form of communication between you and your actual meatspace friends is inane? And, er, a grown man pretending to be a general is not? Come on, our hobby is not so much more important anyone elses.

    • 21/06/2010 at 21:11 Rich says:

      @Vinraith

      Venn diagram time!

    • 21/06/2010 at 21:36 Vinraith says:

      @Clovis

      You’re misreading me. I said the stunt itself was inane, in that if they’re making the game anyway it’s silly to expose themselves to potential “fan failure” like this and if they’re gauging interest they’ve chosen a poor venue for it.

      I don’t see how a company trying to get their players to do some free facebook advertising for them is so bad.

      I don’t see anywhere that I suggested it was. I would argue that it’s a poor venue for advertising a grand strategy game, in the same way I wouldn’t advertise the new Call of Duty game in next month’s Redbook, but since it’s not costing them anything that doesn’t really matter.

      I’m pretty sure the grognards not on facebook can set up and account and “like” this game in about 5 minutes.

      I think you’ll find that many grognards find the idea of having a Facebook account offensive. I’ll note here explicitly that I’m not one of them (though mine is largely inactive), but the response I’ve seen in my usual strategy gaming hangouts has been peppered with comments of an “I’d sooner eat glass than setup a Facebook account” variety. Let’s face it, by and large grognards ARE “old men” as you put it, or at least think like them. To say that many of this group have a low opinion of social networking would be a massive understatement.

    • 21/06/2010 at 21:53 Jeremy says:

      Please don’t take obviously made up percentages seriously, FYI.

    • 21/06/2010 at 22:06 Cooper says:

      68% of statistic are made up on the spot

    • 21/06/2010 at 22:10 Jeremy says:

      47% of me hates you.

    • 22/06/2010 at 01:39 TheHumanBlur says:

      Well, yes and no. From a purely subjective point of view, the grognards I know at the very least have an active account on facebook, although the level of activity obviously varies enormously. I can understand the facebook hate, but I would say the vast majority use it as it is extremely convenient. As for myself – its been invaluable as I travel a great deal, and have family and friends spread across the world, not to mention work contacts. Equally I wouldn’t dismiss off-hand a relatively small company attempting some free promoting just because youI personally dont like the platform they have chosen to use (Not to mention the fact that paradox deserve all the promoting they can get!)

  7. 21/06/2010 at 18:59 rebb says:

    I prefer arsebook.

    Do they really expect the type of gamer that plays these games to be an all out “omg ‘web 2.0′ y’all” type at the same time ?

    I guess they should just do the same on twitter, its easier to set an account up there to follow them.

    Then again maybe they have some deal with f-book which “inspired” them to do this.

    • 21/06/2010 at 21:50 DrazharLn says:

      I don’t think so.

    • 21/06/2010 at 21:54 DrazharLn says:

      To clarify, I don’t think they will have done a special deal with fb. Though I don’t think facebook was the best place to put this poll thing, either.

      I’d have set something up on their forums or setup a new website for it.

  8. 21/06/2010 at 19:01 Snall says:

    94% of the world? I hope that’s supposed to be hyperbole. Anyway I’d LOVE a new CK2 with the new engines and shit. Great game, but I own most of Paradox games too. And yeah, it DOES often take expansions to really bring out the awesome..but god like now EU3 with all expansions is soooo damn good (Especially MP!). And with this kind of complexity of course it’s gonna be a bitch to get right. <3 me my Paradox guys…like someone said, hardly anyone doing this stuff.

  9. 21/06/2010 at 19:07 Wolfox says:

    Crusader Kings (with the Deus Vult expansion) is my favorite Paradox game. I’d LOVE to see a Crusader Kings 2. And I think this was the Paradox way of saying “there will be a CK2 someday, and we’re trying to find out how popular it would be to decide WHEN, not IF”.

  10. 21/06/2010 at 19:32 beatoangelico says:

    While I’d definitely be interested in a sequel to CK (while very flawed – and still bugged – it’s the paradox game I play the most these days) there’s no way I’m joining facebook only for this.

  11. 21/06/2010 at 19:37 Javier-de-Ass says:

    I want this guy, but it’s not going to make me use facebook. sorry johan. might as well say the game is going to be steam only, that’s the same thing for me. completely different world, don’t care.

  12. 21/06/2010 at 19:41 MrFake says:

    What can they gauge interest against? 25,000 facebook fans is a lot relative to, maybe, their active forum members, but nothing compared to hopeful sales. And there are no useful statistics on facebook petitioners vs. actual interest; in other words, there’s no way to know how this scales up. It’s a purely arbitrary number, and it is not going to convince anyone who has better things to spend money on, nor change the mind of anyone who is already working on getting the ball rolling.

    I’d say it’s just a way for Paradox, and maybe just the CEO specifically, to try and reach out to a larger community. Nice to see a personal side to these people now and again, even if it is through the greasy, ice-cold lens of facebook.

  13. 21/06/2010 at 19:45 Antsy says:

    “Paradox hates Mondays”…..”Paradox is psyched cause it’s Friday…woooooo!”………”Paradox gave some manure to Dave”….

    *sigh*

  14. 21/06/2010 at 20:14 Peter Radiator Full Pig says:

    Some basic math says that at this rate, they will have their target in approximatively 103.3 days…

    (25,000/968)*4

  15. 21/06/2010 at 20:28 myros says:

    lol sorry not going to join facebook, nice try though.

    Would love to see a CK2, as long as its properly beta-tested and ran through QA before you release it.

    • 22/06/2010 at 05:21 Tssha says:

      They do that with every game Myros…bug testing isn’t an exact science and they’re a small company. Not like EA where they can throw manpower at the problem…

  16. 21/06/2010 at 20:36 Zeus says:

    Imagine a Venn diagram of Paradox Interactive oldschool strategy game fans and Facebook users. Imagine how small the overlap would be. Now imagine using that sliver to gauge interest on an upcoming game.

    O_o

  17. 21/06/2010 at 20:44 Vadermath says:

    Actually, a Paradox official stated a bit later that they’re using this to see the number of Paradox fans gathered on facebook, and that they certainly won’t base their development decision(s) on this.

  18. 21/06/2010 at 21:06 Chaz says:

    I’d much rather have another sequal to Crusader: No Remorse. Come on Origin, get busy with it. Oh you don’t exist any more, bugger.

  19. 21/06/2010 at 21:39 Mad Doc MacRae says:

    Ugh, I just bought CK and it’s expansion recently. Impenetrable UI. Please remake this Paradox

  20. 21/06/2010 at 22:13 Falerix says:

    Why does everyone assume that Facebook users are Web 2.0 Twitter-hailing ‘blogonets’ dunces? I use Facebook constantly, but only to check up on my friends, does that make me a Web 2.0 guy?

    That’s what this campaign is about, methinks, there are a lot of casual Facebookers out there then some of you give credit for.

  21. 21/06/2010 at 22:16 Javier-de-Ass says:

    BU BU BU BU PROTEST

  22. 21/06/2010 at 22:45 Tagert says:

    Crusader Kings, with the Deus Vult expansion, is my favourite Paradox game. Ever. I played the shit out of it, to borrow a phrase. (And probably mutilate it in the same space)

    I remember playing it and reviving the failing Byzantine empire: First priority to fend off the invading Ottomans. Also ensure that the Komnenos family line comes to power after my ailing emperor carks it with no heirs.
    Once that is sorted out, push the Ottoman’s back and eventually destroy them. After that’s done, turn attention to the north while at the same time marrying into the British royal family and proceed to assassinate all 56 heirs that are ahead of your child to ensure their inheritance. End result? Unstoppable.

    Also:
    WordPress 3.0 is available! Please notify the site administrator.

    Consider yourselves notified!

  23. 21/06/2010 at 22:51 Jae Armstrong says:

    There’s been a certain segment of the community running a concerted for a new CK for a while now, to the point where every new announcement (even the third party and xp ones…) being met with cries of “why isn’t this CK2″. Honestly I think this is much to shut them up as anything else.

    And an article on this sideshow but nothing on Victoria 2 >:( For shame!

    As an aside; I’m a student on a programming course and I have to say that facebook and other web 2.0 site use *seems* to be underrepresented in comparison to those on other courses. There seems to be a general sentiment that social networking sites are for people that don’t know how to use a computer properly and have no business being on the internet in the first place. So it’s not just Vinraith ;)

    • 22/06/2010 at 05:27 Tssha says:

      I’m pretty sure they just want these people directing their energies to pumping up hype for this game. I mean, hey, they’ve been asking for years, “whose leg do I have to hump to get CK2?”. And now they know it’s their mate’s.

  24. 22/06/2010 at 03:14 Finn says:

    Some of my best multiplayer experiences were with CK; not that it worked smoothly, Mp was always Paradox achilles heel, but the game experience itself was awesome, marrying our daughters/sons, forging alliances, carving Europe amidst ourselves, doing crazy stunts while starting out as mere counts and trying to use our alliances to rise in power, etc.

  25. 22/06/2010 at 05:18 Hryme says:

    I seem to remember reading on the Paradox forums ages ago that CK was one of their better selling titles. Certainly sold more than Victoria, and they are currently making Victora II. That makes me hopeful for a sequel to CK at some point in the future. As for the Facebook stunt I have no opinion. I don’t like Facebook much, but I don’t think that is in any way related to me being a strategy game fan.

  26. 22/06/2010 at 12:01 redpanda says:

    They are making Victoria 2 . If that’s possible, everthing is ….

  27. 22/06/2010 at 12:45 TempestDK says:

    I don’t quite get the Facebook are for loosers who don’t know how a computer works and shouldn’t be online …. what does computer skills have to do with anything??

    Anyways … I work as a software tester, I love strategy games (especially PI games) and I use Facebook alot. Am I an anomoly? ;)

    I do hope this is all a media stunt to get the word about CK out there to all those who never heard of it, or might have forgotten the title since it was released.

    It is by far my favorite game of any sort, and the only one that has been on my harddisk for 6 years, and I would just love CK2 with all the realised potential that the original title have.

    When you consider that CK was almost completely redone in 6 months by Johan and friends, after Snowball screwed it up royally, then I think it is a magnificent result, even when it is not perfect.

    And am also looking forward to the new Vicky2 .. if that makes a profit, then the chances of CK2 becomes much greater.

  28. 23/06/2010 at 09:37 Vadermath says:

    I simply can’t wait for the development of CK2 to be announced. I’m a big fan of Paradox games, and while I’ll obviously buy Vicky 2, CK always had a special place in my heart.

    A sequel on the Clausewitz (EUIII) engine would be…tremendous.

    • 30/06/2010 at 16:06 Kaisermuffin says:

      I’d rather see it on the Europa Engine. HoI II > III etc etc. Europa is just a smoother runner IMO – Saving on Clausewitz on my (built on late 09 to be reasonably decent) PC is time for a tea-break, and that involves going downstairs and everything…

  29. 24/11/2010 at 14:25 longisle says:

    They have started developing it some time ago alredy and on the new engine btw.

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