By Alec Meer on July 7th, 2010 at 8:12 pm.
I’ve spent a fair bit of today thinking about Blizzard’s decision to enforce the use of real names on its forums thing, as anyone watching me yammer away on Twitter will already know. My ultimate conclusion is that, well, it’s insane.
Utter, utter madness.
Never mind that it’s going to discourage discussion, roleplaying and playfulness. Never mind that people want an escape from reality sometimes.
Even discounting the StarCraft and Diablo communities, World of Warcraft has 12 million-odd players, though I’d guess only around a quarter of that are English-speaking. Of those, it’s perhaps just several hundred thousand who actively post on the forums.
“Just.”
That’s far too big to be a close-knit community that helps, supports and trusts each other implicitly. That’s millions of strangers whose only thing in common is a game about bashing things: that’s a pretty broad catchment, all-told. It’s also an existing community, not one that’s been built from scratch around public identities.
That means that, right off the bat, it’s not the same as iRacing, a thoroughly respectable but undeniably niche MMO for motorsports fans which also requires the use of real names.
It’s far, far too many people who could know your name, and as a result go on to find out anything/everything about you – most particularly, how to find you. Simply by law of averages, the more people there are, the higher the chance of there being a nutter who’ll post rotten vegetables to you, send you love letters, or turn up at your door with a replica samurai sword. Or just sending you an email insulting your ethnicity, your gender, your sexuality, your mother, your face… Or posting details of your ethnicity, your gender, your sexuality, your mother, your face in public.
“People can find you via Google.” “People can find you via the phonebook.”
Yes. But they can’t look for you if they don’t know your name, and they won’t even want to look for you if you haven’t said something about how rubbish their raiding is or made some inexpert pseudo-flirting. People’s pride doesn’t get hurt by reading the phonebook.
There are a slim handful precedents for real-life forum vengeance – very few, very rare and certainly a result of troubled individuals rather than because of any inherent link between forum-dwellers, aggressive behaviour and availability of information.
I’m really not saying “there will be hundreds of murders as a result of this.” I’m saying that even one instance, just one of someone having their private life invaded (and I’m not talking only about violence, but also in terms of simple hassle, anxiousness and upset – phone calls, emails, unpleasant pictures, letters to parents or employers…) because someone on a forum tracked them down as a result of seeing their name next to something they posted is one instance too much.
The risk for women, particularly, is high. The forum equivalent of wolf-whistling is scarcely a rare-occurrence, so to give people the tools to go further (and again, I’m not talking about violence, but rather harassment – mails and texts) seems abhorrent. Most people wouldn’t. Of course most people wouldn’t. But one might. And that’s too much.
Yes, the truly dedicated/insane could very likely track down someone they were obsessed with without knowing their real name in advance. But this doesn’t make that just slightly easier. It makes it as easy as typing someone’s name into Google. Just the slightest additional chance of upset or aggression or even hassle, no matter how minor, is just not worth it, and I simply cannot understand how this system was approved at the highest levels of Blizzard. Is it really just because they want calmer forums? It’s such a big and unusual decision that there surely must be more to it.
I’m sure they’re having a huge rethink as a result of what happened earlier today. One of their staff ended up his phone number, address, photographs and details of his family members blared all over the internet when he tried to prove the new system worked, and that Blizzard devs would also be adhering to it. The fool. The poor, poor fool.
I’m afraid I not going to provide the link to that, because I don’t want to give the unfortunate chap’s phone number to strangers. That said, he’s probably changed it already. He’s certainly deleted his Facebook page following the horde of hasslers that resulted from his naive declaration of just his first and last names.
Just the work of a couple of malicious time-wasters, you might say. It was bound to happen.
Exactly, I say. It only takes one malicious time-waster to potentially ruin someone’s day, week, month, life. You don’t have to be a representative of a company that’s pissed people off to risk the frighteningly rapid investigatory ire of someone on the internet. You just have to say the wrong thing in the wrong place. And “don’t say stupid or mean things on forums” doesn’t swing it. Neither does “don’t post on the forums you’ve been using for five years if you don’t want to take the risk.” That’s a little too “they had it coming.” That’s a little too “dressing like that, she was asking for it, judge.”
(“My name’s too common for people to find me” doesn’t swing it either. It’s not okay for three dozen Brian Smiths to be contacted as an attempt to hassle one particular Brian.)
It’s possible it’ll simply be a huge deterrent to posting, and maybe that’s what Blizzard want anyway – a quiet manageable place. I suspect they don’t want a homogenous place, though, devoid of the diversity that makes virtual worlds such fascinating places, where people are quiet and careful and nothing ever happens. And I’m absolutely sure they don’t want to be in the news were something like this to ever happen again.
I hope it won’t. In fact I’m almost sure it won’t. The vast majority of humans simply don’t think or behave like that. Rude emails to someone’s mum, though? Easy. All too easy. Is a prettier forum, and a more Facebook-like Battle.net, really worth increasing the opportunity for even that to happen?
Great article. I’m actually in the other camp but what you said made me realize that your forum account would be easily linked to your game character and that it might not just affect forum posting behaviour but in-game behaviour. That would be truly something!
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It certainly gives a whole new meaning to “Player vs. Player.”
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It’s seems unlikely to work, i.e. the amount of shit-talk on random facebook pages. It’s not the anonymity that allows people to be proverbial dicks, it’s that they are doing in front of a computer screen and not a real person. A real name is still some faceless text.
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No, anonymity exacerbates discussions by a long way. The stuff you get on Facebook is significantly less ridiculous than the stuff elsewhere.
Here’s an example, if I weren’t hiding behind a pseudonym, I wouldn’t be calling you an idiot.
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kwj for that statement I would call you an idiot irl.
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and to make a more sensible response, while internet asshattery may be exacerbated by anonymity its the dehumanisation thats the root cause. Loss of anonymity is not going to stop trolls what retribution do they have to fear? In a normal social situation you would be shunned or deleted from facebook, on a forum there is no retribution associated with losing anonymity, you might still damage your forum reputation but thats tied to whatever your posting name is. The only possible retribution is severe facebook real life griefing and if thats what is expected to stop trolls and flaming thats awful
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Maybe Europeans don’t say insulting things to each other in person, but Americans certainly do. Anonymity doesn’t do anything to increase the likelihood of me calling you an idiot.
False politeness apparently sacred to some. What you are getting from anonymity is, in most cases: honesty.
Those defending such a proposal are directly promoting replacing honesty with fear. You won’t say what you truly think because you’re afraid your boss or an internet serial killer will read it and react in the real world.
What a horrible thing to desire.
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I couldn’t agree more. While I really have nothing else to contribute to the subject myself, Electric Dragon posted this fantastic article on the subject near the end of the previous thread. Hopefully it’s fine if I repost it here, as I really think it says some things that need saying:
http://www.metafilter.com/93492/But-my-name-really-is-Deathblood-Blackaxe#3171416
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That’s a very good post.
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Wow, that was an excellent summary, and also an interesting perspective from a female gamer. I knew they put up with a lot of shit, but man, I never realized the sheer amount the gaming community demands from its girls before, above and beyond the usual shitty/skeezy stuff.
If I had to put up with that shit every time I wanted to play a game, I probably wouldn’t play online games anymore.
Being reminded of the constant racism, misogyny and other pathetic repulsive behavior that seems to characterize chunks of the gaming/online community is rather depressing.
Looking at that and the behavior of people on Xbox live, it’s clear that *something* needs to be done, but what? RealID is obviously half baked. Maybe we need some sort of registrar of Decent Human Beings that you lose membership from if you engage in repugnant behavior.
One the other hand, given my occasionally passionate outbursts such a system might not benefit me, as my missive to TB on the AP thread demonstrates…. ;) Surely we can make a system where it is alright to deride someone for *specific* reasons and yet still receive social blacklisting for harassing someone because of prejudice and/or outright hatred for their social group.
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Well said.
I’m waiting to see what their ultimate response is. It had better be “oops, maybe this isn’t a good idea” I know one account doesn’t mean anything to them, but I will be sad to go, and sorry not to be able to play Cataclysm. I get the feeling however that their hands are tied and that theres no backing out now.
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Or a legal name change to Jack Smith.
Goodluck to them finding exactly which one of the tens of thousands born under that name you are.
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can I ask why forum participation is so important that you’d be willing to give up the game entirely, rather than just the forums?
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To get tech support, you have to post of the forums.
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Is there not an e-mail or phone option? Because if it is forum-only then, yeah, that makes the whole thing much worse.
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Well, there actually IS the option to use the phone to get tech support. But have you ever tried it? You’re on the phone for the better half of an hour only to get told to post on the forums. Not worth it.
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Well said, Mr. Meer. The only train of thought I can see for this is that Activizzard wants to cut down on how much they’re spending on managing the fora, so they’ll show everyone’s real names and people will just stop posting. If they have any brains left at all, they’ll stop what they’re doing now before it’s too late. If it isn’t already, that is – the death bells have been tolling for that game for a while, I think, and this could be the beginning of the end for WoW.
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Wouldn’t that be great?
Unfortunately, WoW is in no threat of dying, even with this stupidity. Other MMOs will continue to copy it and be terrible.
Only by the grace of the Emperor will we see a decent MMO that does not have three boring class roles while still being accessible enough.
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This has probably been asked and answered before, but I haven’t been able to follow the tremendous amount of press this has been getting: will blue (Blizzard employee) posters be required to adhere to this same ruling?
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Yes. A CM on the European forums said exactly that (‘t was Vaneras).
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Yes.
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Obviously this is just the first step. If this was all there is to it, it wouldn’t make sense from any perspective. But if it is the first step to some real battle.net and Facebook integration, it is logical. They have to force the technology on people. It isn’t something most gamers will gravitate towards, at least not the consumers of a monthly fee game. If it’s a crappy free to play MMO, I’m sure you can push stuff on the players to a much higher degree.
As for the future plans of Blizzbook:
“Our goal and vision in this partnership is to really to cross-populate the social networks and to easily find and add your friends from Facebook onto the new Battle.net service as the first step and extending it to other features in the future. … Later on, of course, we have lots of things we are talking about with Facebook. We haven’t announced anything specific, but we have lots of ideas about ways to cross-populate and share data between the two services.”
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1
I think they jumped the shark here. Glad I got my WoW addiction out of my system years ago and while I probably will try Diablo III there is no way Blizzard will ever get my real name. This of course means I will never subscribe to any game of theirs in the future. But I simply wouldn’t trust them with my credit card info anymore.
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Well… shit. You’re absolutely right. And in retrospect, I should have seen it coming. WoW has long been more social app than game, anyway; I guess cooperating with their only true competitor – Facebook – makes a disgusting amount of sense.
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This is the missing part of the puzzle. If Actiblizz really just wanted calmer forums they would moderate them more, or make it so you can see all characters on an account. And they would have done this years ago. Calmer forums has very little to do with it.
By integrating with Facebook they open up new revenue streams. Even if only a fraction of gamers link Real ID to their Facebook account, they will have a new way to get at a potential market. Farmville is in a league of it’s own in terms of player numbers, many more people play that than Warcraft. Imagine Warcraft and Starcraft making posts on your wall ‘John is bored in Dalaran, why not login here and send him a cake?’ or whateverthefuck. You can already browse the AH from your phone, I expect chat will get synchronised soon, and achievements of course.
There are 350 million plus on Facebook, and they will apparently play any old rubbish – it’s a huge target to get even a tiny slice of. Actiblizz’s secret next MMO: World of Farmcraft.
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There was a time when I would have described myself as a fan of Blizzard. They made great games, had a lot of respect for those who loved and played their games and always went out of their way to keep those who supported them happy.
Now, they still make games but I would describe myself as a customer, not a fan. I still play the games, I still love the games, but I no longer feel that Blizzard as a company has my interests at heart. Thats ok, I don’t hate them, or hold any ill will against them, there are many companies I am a customer of in a similar way. When they trot out the platitudes about their players being the most important thing to them it is only jarring because it used to be true. Now, it is the same meaningless corporate nonsense that so many other companies spew out in the hopes that some customers actually fall for it.
As long as WoW lasts I think Blizzard will be fine. Most people have so much time sunk into it already that they are not going to jump ship. They will only feel a backlash when the time comes to replace WoW with something else. Fans tend not to jump ship to a competitors product, customers on the other hand, could care less.
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What’s most entertaining to me is that it seems none of the Blizzard staff reads /b/ – say what you want about them, but provide them with any personal information, and they can very easily dig up everything about your life .. and then ruin it.
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Which is why anonymity on the internet can be a bad thing. No one on the chans would do anything questionable if their real name were published with each post.
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As soon as I saw the news of this yesterday, /b/ and anon was my immediate thought. They’re going to love this.
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@Adrian: And if you had to post your name in order to read the forums, that might make some sense. As it is, it’s just a data mine waiting to be drilled.
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Ban guns and soon only criminals will have guns.
Ban anonymity and soon only criminals will be anonymous.
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Nice Shag… I like that. I mean, the phrase, not the frightening reality of our barren future.
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Yes far better to hand out guns and home addresses to everyone.
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Think of it as evolution in action.
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In this metaphor. which group of people are the corrupt city officials, and which ones are the heroic arcology employees?
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That’s very true in my case: there are only two people in the whole world that have the name and surname I have: my uncle and me. Obviously I use a nickname for most things around internet.
I’m so lucky for not liking their boards…
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There’s the very real question as to how much using a moniker protects you, anyway. Case in point – after reading risingson’s post I tracked him down, and now, about ten minutes after I began, I know his name.
(Amazingly, only the one facebook result for it, too. Guy doesn’t lie, it’s a rare name).
Now that I look back at this post, it scares me a bit. I’m posting it anyway.
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I’m just curious… the definitive lead of my surname was at the aventura site, right?
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Yes. To be fair, it required some deduction. I remembered from RPS discussions that you review adventure games, and that in particular you’ve reviewed Machinarium. So it was as simple as working out where you review games and finding that review.
I checked the answer by checking the name on facebook, and you were using the same picture, so I could be certain.
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All very valid arguments. I also agree with you that when looking past the PR/Marketing bs this decision probably has more to do with stifling posting in general rather than combatting trolls and flamers.
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Really , really bad decision. Reminds me of Turbine decision to introduce “alternative ways” to pay for game credits.
But Turbine as always was lighting quick and listening. And they closed the service the next day.
Blizzard on other hand is as stubborn and unmoving as a rock. They do have all the fans and their respect. But is that so solid as they think ?
Best what can come out this is that 90% people just stop posting on Blizz forums.
Worst thing is that they will alienate critical mass of fanbase which in turn will start slow but inevitable landslide of wow users.
It was about time anyway.
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What were these “alternative ways?” Is it terrible my mind immediately jumped to “sexual favours?”
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Hahaha,
Well not. Just prearranged marriages, Organ donating, contracted slave work.
No wonder players got suspicious ;)
Nah…
They wanted you do do all those surveys for cash, or buy stuff on amazon get cash at turbine …etc
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This isn’t about civil forums. This is about money. It’s clear that they consider all of this private customer data as something that can be monetized.
It won’t stop with Blizzard’s forums.
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They already have all that information – making it public doesn’t make it any more suable from their point of view, unless it allows them to put some dodgy stuff in their EULA. But then people would still have to actually post for them to get anything out of it.
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They already have your info, so how is showing your name on the forums about money? They can already sell it if they tweek the EULA.
This isn’t about money, this doesn’t get then anything. This is just a bit stupid.
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Data protection laws prevent them sharing stuff without a very strong and equally binding agreement with who they share it with, even if they make subtle changes to the EULA. To get round the law, they must make it big and obvious; by having the real names of their customers in the public domain if they post on the forums(apparently this change will not apply retrospectively) they can sell ALL the names and details they have.
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no. you idiot.
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Yeah it’s a weird one. I think their stance is “well if you don’t want your name out there, and aren’t going to post in a way that you wouldn’t in real life, don’t post” which, while not what I would call “fair enough”, is certainly a stance. If it wasn’t applied to tech support and RP forums, I might even see their point – but if people are scared to post in Tech Support, well what’s the point?
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The problem is that even if you post in a the same way you would in real life, you have 11 million people reading who might react in a way very different from your real life friends.
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I know, and the use of text makes it more difficult too. That’s why I still don’t think it’s okay, but maybe an idea in the right direction.
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Yesterday, after waiting in the dungeon finder queue for about fifteen minutes, I was kicked from the group immediately upon entry, just after the group leader had enough time to scream at me, entirely in upper case “What the fuck are you doing rolling a Blood Elf Paladin on an RP server, get the fuck out.” That is exactly the sort of psuedo-elitist bullshit that could have led to a flame war on the forum, as once happened to a member of my old guild who complained about something similar and had the offender in question basically descend on them on the forum with what I imagine must have been the Tauren equivalent of a flamethrower.
Thankfully I’m the kind of person who can simply laugh off stuff like that, but in the event that someone experiences really serious harassment, real names are going to ramp up the seriousness by quite a way.
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Not much more i can add to this that i didn’t already say in the other thread.
Just a terrible, terrible idea. If they actually go through with it does anyone think that this could be the turning point of the downward spiral of the behemoths that are StarCraft and WoW?
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No
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They’d have to make your real name to show up in-game for that, I think…
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@Guildenstern
I thought that was the whole point? They are going to integrate the Bnet into WoW so it’s all one system?
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@Guildenstern: You have the option of making people RealID friends, in which case, your real name will appear in-game, albeit only to your RealID friends. Of course, the fact that the game has the ability to access this information at all is disturbing. It’s just begging for a malicious add-on to be written the broadcasts realIDs.
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It looks like that can already happen: http://www.wow.com/2010/07/06/security-flaw-allows-addons-to-expose-full-real-life-names-witho/
whoops.
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If they actually go through with it does anyone think that this could be the turning point of the downward spiral of the behemoths that are StarCraft and WoW?
No, not really. WoW is firmly entrenched in the MMO market now. Also, Cataclysm will update the visuals, thus removing another issue that might make new players hesitant of joining. I’m sure Actizzard are well aware of this and are using Cataclysm and SC2 to ram the changes through. It’s no accident this was unveiled so close to the release of those titles.
Some players will leave the game(s), of course, but most of the long-time WoW-players have so much invested in their characters, that they will be loathe to leave, as most long-time MMO players are. When Actiblizz integrate with Facebook, a shitload of new players will rush to join up and will more than make up for those who have left. Those who come from Facebook are already used to spewing out all details about themselves to the world and wont think twice about Actizzard’s new policy.
I think it’s sad to see Blizzard do this and I’m sure they wouldn’t have, if they hadn’t sold out to Activision. This is a cold, calculated move to pull in new players and exploiting the biggest game titles in recent memory to do so. It smells of Kotick all over.
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I’m starting to think Kotic has Reverse Midas Touch.
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I absolutely agree. It’s curious that Blizzard was almost the perfect example of the do-nothing-wrong gaming company before the Activision merger. Bastards.
Oh, and don’t worry about the guy with the samurai sword. He’s just delivering the pizza.
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I wouldn’t say that. Their zero-tolerance “no GLBT-friendly guilds” stance was pre-Activision.
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To be fair, I think they were zero-tolerance for anything that their main audience (males 13-25) would have found offensive.
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“Their zero-tolerance “no GLBT-friendly guilds” stance”
Woah, seriously? Thats pretty disgusting.
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These are all great points.
I would also say this raises huge privacy concerns for celebrities. It’s well known that many celebrities, including Dave Chappelle and Felicia Day, and probably countless others enjoy Blizzard games. But they wouldn’t dare post their name in a forum and have it be somehow linked to their character or account, or their game experience would become horrible.
I also have to say that it’s become quite commonplace to google someone’s name in the hiring process, and it might raise red flags at certain institutions if one of the first hits was for a gaming website. And once that’s out there, you can never take it down.
Just a terrible idea all around.
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Yeah, Felicia twittered about it yesterday and seemed doubtful about the idea, but didn’t say much. She is very much into the social networks.
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There’s also the whole issue of this coming after the mandatory switch to battle.net for your WoW login, requiring you to make your login name your email address. So now we’re to broadcast our real name, as well. It’s like they’re getting a kickback from account thieves and gold farmers and other lowlifes, making it this bloody easy to socially engineer your way into account information. Why not just identify us by our credit card numbers and have done with it, Blizzard?
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How does knowing someone’s name make it easier to steal their accounts?
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It is easier, honest. I mean, you’d have to be highly motivated, but many of the early hacks of phone companies involved some variety of folks walking into an office and saying “My name is Foo Bar and I would like to see my records.” It’s certainly more difficult in this day and age, but some cursory Googling about will turn up other possibilities.
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Probably to do with finding out answers to secret questions, such as mother’s maiden name. Or things like birthdays to guess passwords.
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The first thing an account stealer wants is your e-mail. That’s why the amount of WoW-related spam has become insane; they’re getting e-mails linked to WoW accounts somehow. They now have mine even though I only use my WoW e-mail for WoW and Bnet. I have never used this e-mail when I applied to guilds on guild-host websites. There must have been at some point a security leak at Blizzard; it could only have come from them.
With a real name with a real known WoW account linked to it, finding e-mail addresses becomes so much easier. If you have ever linked your real name with your e-mail address anywhere on the web it will be in a cache somewhere and if someone has one, they can find the other.
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Alec Meer, your argument fails. If iRacing insists on real names then there’s also a chance that murder or mayhem will ensue because of their policy. It’s less of a chance than with WOW, obviously, but there’s still a chance. You’re really insisting on a ban on anyone using their real name on a forum because there’s a CHANCE that bad things will happen if they do. You can’t look at the relative numbers, do a bit of mental arithmetic with imaginary numbers in your head and decide that one scenario is safe and another isn’t.
Why aren’t you campaigning against motor cars cos those things’ll kill you dead quicker than criticizing someone’s raiding ability.
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dadioflex, everytime I’ve used my real name I’ve had problems. Really, It may be unbelievable for you, but some of us don’t want to use our real name unless it’s really really necessary. And a forum board isn’t.
It’s a privacy thing. I’ve already have problems because of google, and I don’t want them because a game. A stupid thing like a game.
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@dadioflex: Echoing Risingson here: “I don’t want [privacy issues] because a game. A stupid thing like a game.” A game that we’ve been able to play for five years now anonymously. I think WoW players have a legitimate grievance in saying “we didn’t sign up for this.”
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Apparently you didn’t read:
You just have to say the wrong thing in the wrong place. And “don’t say stupid or mean things on forums” doesn’t swing it. That’s a little too “they had it coming.” That’s a little too “dressing like that, she was asking for it, judge.”
Honestly, what else be said?
And RQH, you pay fifteen bucks a month. Activision doesn’t view you as people or even customers. They view you as economic units of payment.
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Good post.
There’s someone salivating at the targeted marketing opportunities this would provide. There must be. I can’t think that it’s worth the effort otherwise. That and stealing facebook’s thunder at a stroke (and facebook are already getting in the shit left and right over privacy concerns).
There’s a lot of people saying “But we need to clean up WoW/Battle.net forums because they’re a cesspool of idiots” But it’s the same with steam, youtube, 4chan, the internet at large. Large scale human occupation of anywhere tends to cause a build up of poo. It sounds a bit “Deal!” to say this, but while it needs managing you’ll never get rid of it entirely without ruining whatever it was that made it worth being there in the first place.
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@Muzman: I agree that’s their goal in part, to steal facebook’s thunder, and I understand from their perspective they stand a lot to gain financially. But from the consumer perspective: why? The reason I have facebook is to stay in touch with my friends, who have scattered to the four winds since college. Most of these people don’t play videogames. I can keep in touch with both gamer friends and non-gamer friends in facebook. I don’t need two social networks, one for gamers and one for not. And I’m sorry, but my non-gamer friends don’t even play facebook games. They’re not going to jump over to Diablo III or whatever. (In fact, most of my gamer friends don’t play any Blizzard games. Weird, I know.)
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Yeah, the brain dead, me-too aspects of corporate “innovation” get quite exhausting after a while. It was unmissable, for instance, when I got GTA4 that I was running two separate social networking systems that had nothing to do with each other. One publisher specific (Live), one developer specific (Rockstar Social Club). And Steam too.
It’s dumb as rocks. You’d think the supposedly brainy tech industry would notice that things like facebook become successful because they are independant and can be used to draw in people from all over the place. The other clowns are trying to create a social hub by brute force.
What players should be asking about all this, now that we know facebook and the like have problems from being so open, is what are Blizzard going to do for us/them? If they’re going to enforce self exposure like this what security guarantees are they going to provide? What rules will they set up so this won’t be misused and what action will they take when it is?
That would be the proper thing for them to say (and I actually think if they had to set things up and behave like a proper civic body they’ll drop the whole idea so fast. They might think they know how to do it, what with managing big forums and WoW and so on, but I bet they dunno what they’re in for)
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Like i needed another reason to not play wow. Who made this call? Activision?
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Quieter forums, less maintenance cost, more profits for blizz. It always boils down to money.
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Wow I remember that German guy killing someone over a game. The flat was only a couple of hundred feet away from my girlfriends house so I could have been close by. The person who was stabbed also went to the same school as me.
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Perhaps Activision will release their own Operating system next?
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If I recall the case correctly the people involved already knew each other, or the killer had stayed with the victems – at their invitation – several times previously.
So not really the same thing.
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Wasn’t that over an advance wars forum? I recall reading in The Sun (someone elses copy, at work) that Advance Wars was some sort of horrific war simulator or something along those lines, which made me chuckle.
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I can see where this is going.
They start linking everyone up to battle net at first, then they start requiring you to go through battle net to open every acti-blizz. Is that a sale on? Check out that Warcraft pack. And then, just as its looking its most dreadful… Diablo 3 to be Battle Net Exclusive!
It’s the Anti-Steam!
Though on the plus side, this is how consoles will die. Launchers for all.
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Is it London where a kid was recently sentenced to prison for fatally stabbing someone who called him a pussy on facebook?
I’ve never visited the Blizzard forums, but from my experience with other forums/online games, Im sure much worse has been said on the Blizz forums. Actard is making a big mistake if they go through with this.
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I’ve changed my account name before, but it’s no longer possible.
So I cannot be “Pseudonym Thimbletrimmer”.
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OK, let me play devil’s advocate here.
Is it maybe possible that people will be more civil to one another?
Let’s not forget that this is a two way street : is BloodOathRaven lvl 80 Shaman as likely to hurl sexual slurs and barbs at other players as Tim Murphy, normal Joe and Pizza Hut manager? I mean, if someone gets nasty with you it will be just as easy for you to play the harassment card. Suddenly, BloodOathRaven’s online rep is not in danger, his real life rep is in danger. Still, that’s not much help if you start receiving unmarked packages with stuffed animals covered with semen and your name scrawled into the skull.
I know there are crazies, of course, but because the information flows both ways I don’t see it being terribly dire. Trying to put a positive spin on it, at least, as I think the implications for this could be far reaching.
Does anyone know of any other forum with as much traffic as Blizzard that has tried to switch from handles to real names?
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I considered that, too, but look at Facebook. The subset of online users willing to give up their real name online is NOT the more intelligent, net-savvy portion of the userbase.
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I guess. Though for a long time FB was able to stay relatively sane by allowing its users to keep their circle of friends relatively private, and by extension, keep a sort-of-close reign on which details were public.
I guess my question, really, is has this ever happened before on this scale? We could all end up surprised possibly-maybe.
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@ Tevin – you can still do that on Facebook.
The only thing a random person can see from my Facebook page is my name, the city I live in, the city I grew up in, my profile picture, and my general interests (ie music, tv and fan pages). Absolutely no private information whatsoever.
And I only add people as friends I know well enough to trust.
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I don’t think you can just argue from the point that the internet is a bad place. Of course it is, because of the anonymity that Bliz is trying to break and because of the anonymity of the masses.
It still doesn’t make their move any better, though. Games are games are games. I don’t want to deal with real life in my games. I don’t want to deal with any aspect of it in a virtual space, my real name being a part of it.
Sure, someone with lots of spare time could probably come up with my real name and address by doing long and extensive research, but that’s the point – it takes lots of digging, or, if i wanted, no digging at all. But I’m mostly in control of my rather unique real name. And if I decide that my pseudonym will be all there is to my internet identity, then everyone will have to accept that.
With all that said, there’s still something that irks me greatly about this. Anonymity also provides people with an equal ground. Apart from the way I write, there’s nothing differentiating me from my peers on the internet. I’m what I make myself on the Net, no matter how my monetary situation, where I live, whether I follow a religion, whether my Nation gassed millions of people or is slowly murdering the population of a neighbouring country. It doesn’t matter, and it bloody shouldn’t.
Bliz is eroding that principle. I am not amused.
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I honestly believe that if all they wanted to do was solve the trolling “problem” then they could have just added a forum handle to the account, and that’s all you could EVER post on. If someone wanted to troll with an unknown name, they’d have to buy, and maintain, another account which only means more money for Blizzard. This is an approach that has worked reasonably well for other companies, so it would work here too.
If anyone, including Blizzard, thinks this will completely stop trolling, I’ve got some bad news for them. It won’t. There’s a few gutless anons that won’t post anymore, but there will always be some amount of trolling, even with the method I mentioned. It’s just that my method is preferable because it doesn’t give that same gutless anon group fuel to make your life miserable. People honestly don’t want to believe that your private info is easy to come by, but once they have a key component, like your name, information isn’t hard at all to come by. And that just opens the floodgates to stupid crap, like 30 pizzas delivered to your door, to some potentially hairy situations, such as an anonymous tip to the police that you were seen dragging kids off the street and into your car
To those who say nothing bad can come of this, I say that you just haven’t seen what the ugly side of the internet has already done.
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My head hurts only thinking about that, and the people that don’t see the danger on this.
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People post much more personal things than just their names on Facebook and such.
Here, have some aspirin.
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@Sonic Goo:
Google don’t index the whole of Facebook. Is a private wallet garden. Suposedlly, only your friends see your photos and comments. And can’t like that information to other information, so you control what information you spread. Mostly.
Also, Facebook using real names is a GIGANTEOUS error. But wen is hard to tell people that browsing with Internet Explorer with admin rights, I could understand that is hard to tell people to never post his name online. People is clueless like that.
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I’ve been playing WoW for almost four years now, and I’ve never posted in the forums. I disliked the change to Battle.Net because simply I dislike anything mandatory, and I’ve haven’t given them my RealID and I won’t do it. If that means that I won’t be able to post in their forums, there are plenty of other sites to get information, advice and so on.
The SECOND they make Real-ID mandatory for playing, the second I quit. Forever.
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Like Picacodigos (try Googling that – oh wait, no, don’t because, well… look! Goodyear blimp!), I’ve never posted on the WoW forums in 4 or 5 years of playing and don’t intend to. So the RealID won’t affect me there.
To a certain extent, I support it the concept of RealID. The reason I don’t post in the WoW forums is because they’re a nasty place full of trolls, spammers and nothing vaguely useful or worthwhile. I know. I looked once. It was almost like encountering Cthulhu in the hideous, monolith-crowned citadel of Ry’leh – enough to drive a man insane. Would the most aggressive of people on those forums hurl so many insults if they had no anonymity to hide behind? I’m guessing not. But they’ll be the loudest to cry foul and claim their privacy is being infringed because they’ll have to start behaving like civilized people rather than like the schoolboys in Lord of the Flies.
On the other hand, privacy on the internet for the rest of us means being protected from the those who Penny Arcade so astutely classified several years ago.
Even if this is the beginning of far more malign privacy moves by ActiBlizz, I still won’t personally worry. The email address I use for battle.net is used solely for that and the name I gave them was the first one I could come up with which, coincedentally, happened to be “Alec Meer”. Who would have thought a simple system could have been got around by lying, eh?
Incidentally, just so you know – my name’s not really Ford Prefect and I’m not actually from Guildford.
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As well as I can Google, I am the only person in the world with my particular first and last name, and I don’t think I’ll be posting on the WoW forums anymore at all if this change goes live. That’s a minor shame, but it doesn’t mean that I won’t still be able to enjoy playing WoW. I could understand the violent pushback if we were forced to reveal our real names in-game, but this is just about the official forums.
The bottom line is if you don’t like it, post on some other forums. There are a ton of them out there.
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Violent crimes have fallen every year over the past decade(+) in the U.S., where I live…7.2% last year alone. Maybe it’s different in your country. At any rate, the idea that using real names will unleash the bowels of humanity on your doorstep is just silly. It’s fear-mongering. COULD something happen? Sure. People die everyday from using guns, drugs, cars, planes, booze, ladders, stairs, you name it.
Eh..It’s a waste of energy to fight against changes like this. One way or another, who you are online will be made transparent for the exact reasons everyone fears giving it out. Because at the end of day, it’s far better to know the identities of those around you. Anonymity protects criminals, not victims.
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Then why didn’t you post with your real name?
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I did.
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If anonymity doesn’t protect victims, then why does the US have a witness protection program? I’m sorry, but ANY increased chance of stupid crap happening because of this change is too much. We didn’t sign up for that. We didn’t ask for that.
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I tried to make a point and sound clever and you called me brilliantly
Well played ;)
I am on the opposite side from you in this argument however, and I don’t think just your first name is much of a problem. I don’t mind telling you my first name is Dave, but would have serious problems telling you more.
In my opinion, this is an invasion of privacy. It’s easy to say “X number die from this and life is dangerous” but it’s no justification for making it more dangerous.
or,
Loads die in car accidents, so why bother protecting anyone? Kids will get old and die anyway, lets rob them of their privacy in this virtual world filled with elves and magic
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Seriously? Mentioning the Witness Protection Program in this context is unrealistic. Your talking about a system designed and implemented to protect Federal witnesses from international organized crime families, witnesses who frequently have criminal ties themselves. I could understand if maybe you teabagged the head of La Familia in Warsong Gulch, but lets be atleast a little down to earth here.
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Yeah, people die in cars everyday. But it’s still wise to drive safely.
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It is wise to drive safely. And part of being safe is issuing driver’s licenses, and registering vehicles to specific owners…and in some countries requiring drivers to maintain some form of insurance incase of accident.
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Someone might well be using their real name and following all the rules but how do you know the other person is? And what about all the lurkers, the disadvantage of having an uncommon name as opposed to a common one, etc etc? At the very least anonymity levels the playing field for all involved.
Basically it’s like using a nuke to kill off a swarm of bugs. Complete overkill and unnecessary.
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@Shane
I disagree with your statement of “it’s far better to know the identities of those around you. Anonymity protects criminals, not victims.” The idea that mandatorily removing privacy will make it difficult for criminals to operate, and make it easier for the authorities to track them down is simply not worth the sacrifice, even if it was accurate.
One main reason is that the authorities (or corporations) and their data systems are not immune to corruption or intrusion, so your personal info can be used for purposes you didn’t intend it to. The only way to keep it safe is to not reveal it at all, but more and more we see products and services that require the disclosure of personal information to participate. The more important those services become, the harder it will be to keep your information secure. Everyone is entitled to their privacy, and needs no justification for holding onto it.
To address your points more directly, I believe it is clear that anonymity protects anyone who has it (criminals and victims alike), and a lack of privacy makes anyone vulnerable. Aside from the issues of principle when requiring people to become vulnerable for the sake of security, the main problem is that it simply can’t be universally and equally applied. Criminals won’t have to reveal their identity in order to find out someone else’s, and if they’re any good at what they do, such systems will be to their advantage as much as their detriment.
As an analogous case in point, the government where I live has been debating whether or not to make body armour illegal, since it has been used in gang shootings and such. The supporters of this plan believe that if nobody is protected from bullets, then there will be less shooting. It’s hoping to gain peace by removing protection. I believe that is a foolish and dangerous path, and the reasons are obvious.
Criminals are breaking the law anyway, so mandatorily removing protections will be only an inconvenience to them. Meanwhile, everyone else is required to be vulnerable. Whether you’re a paranoid pedestrian who doesn’t want to become collateral damage in a gang shooting or a loudmouth troll on a forum thread, it’s important that you have the right to protect yourself (and not in a “best defense is a good offense way”, I mean actual protection. There really should be a distinction).
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“Yeah, people die in cars everyday. But it’s still wise to drive safely.”
More to the point: road rage happens, sometimes. But does it help if an automated system hands over your name and address to someone you cut off in traffic? Sure, you’ll try to drive better, but people make mistakes, and some messed up people are just looking for an excuse to beat the hell out of someone. Why make it easy for them?
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I agree with what you are saying, but the way you said it instantly rang alarm bells in my head. When you say things like “just one of someone having their private life invaded [...] is one instance too much” you sound a lot like you are doing worst case thinking. As in, you imagine what is the worst thing that could happen and then you say we should act based on that.
I know you only sound that way, and that large forums are aggressive places and that there should be real concern over decisions like this.
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It makes a strange kind of sense for Blizzard to implement a bad, unpopular (and perhaps even dangerous) forums policy, though: from their angle, I’m not sure that they actually get anything from running those forums other than a massive, nerd-raging headache.
If people want to form a little community, the internet is open to that and no one is going to stop them. Maybe Blizzard just isn’t interested in moderating that process for them anymore. Or maybe Activision is getting annoyed at having to fork over that sweet, sweet WoW profit to run the forum servers. Either way, if they can cut that 100,000 down to 10,000 (just the ones with real names that are already fairly anonymous and who have legitimate tech support questions for Blizzard to field, maybe), that’s gotta be a good thing from their point of view, right?
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On a side not I just read the BBC’s report on this. Apparantly a Mr Brand is concerned about being a gamer messing with his employment prospects. Can’t be that concerned though, what with the whole announcinghe’s a gamer on the BBC thing he’s just done . . .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm
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I sit awaiting the car crash that this will become with a large portion of popcorn, I just hop that it doesn’t turn into a slasher movie.
In all seriousness Blizztivision/Actitard run a huge risk of killing WoW, Starcraft II, and Diablo III with this. Or at least removing any sense of community to huge numbers of independent forums and discussion sites which do not require the revelation of their users real names.
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Killing those games? Nah. Sheer popularity will see them live, I think. Some (i.e.: quite a lot) people are so into those games that they might complain but won’t stop playing.
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It is an utterly insane idea. I don’t play WoW (or any Blizzard/Activision games), but someone linked me to a forum thread last night… 12000 posts in about 8 hours. All denouncing the plans. I figured from that we’d see a climbdown by the end of the week… But then I remembered, it’s Activision. Forum profiles will require a mandatory DNA sample by the time all of the campaigns/expansions for StarCraft2 will have been released.
This is just a bad, bad idea.
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Yeah, I know. I’m saying, if they made it mandatory in game, like it will be on the forums. Then you’d see exodus from wow.
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Dave, I’m perfectly willing to agree to disagree. And I’m in no way trying to knock anyone for their concerns…From my perspective though, I would rather know who all of you are, than not. I want to know who’s talking to my family.
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And I’d rather no-one knew who my family were.
As you say though, agree to disagree. This whole drama will play out without our involvement ;)
AND MY NAME IS 7RIGGER!!!!!!11!!!!
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Didn’t take long for a Hitler parody to spring up, I suspect that’s the norm though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiauaGbxipA
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Does that mean that Godwin’s law applies?
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I’m just completely flabbergasted by anyone dismissing safety concerns. What kind of insanely privileged lives do you lead?
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The white heterosexual male kind, presumably.
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Oops, definitely fucked that up. Last reply is a response to @Adrian.
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What I want to know is : Are all of my old posts going to suddenly show my name? If so I can’t have that.
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It’s not retroactive, so you can lay your bad conscience to rest.
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I remember when Blizzard and their games were cool. Now they’re just simplistic garbage for overcaffeinated children.
The sooner they fade away, the better.
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Unlike the RPS comments, where people don’t post simplistic garbage at all…
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Not going to question Blizzard’s experience with online (and gaming) communities, but I hope they’re aware that what they’re trying to do requires a massive cultural change. This will be quite interesting if it’s actually carried out, and might just motivate even further a “forum exodus” to fanmade communities.
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Against what appears to be the facebook argument: when posting to facebook, you control who can see that information. That means that I can post happily about the drunken night I had with my friends last week where we played drinking games for four hours and Y slept with X and know that only my friends will see it, indeed, I can even select what group of my friends can see this information.
No future employer or acquaintance need know about these grisly details, and my privacy remains safe.
If I were to post on a forum or other public place with my real name, however, I have no control over who accesses that information, or on where it may be stored. As such, I must write expecting future employers, if not friends, to read.
That means that I must act differently to as if I were on facebook, because I am no longer talking to only my friends.
Therefore, the communication that occurs on facebook will continue to differ from the communication that occurs on public sites that display the users’ real names.
Addendum: that some people share their data indiscriminately on facebook does not nullify my point, they are the exception rather than the rule and contrary to what some media outlets would have you think, facebook does allow you to restrict access to your data very effectively (as long as you do not use fb applications).
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Yup. good old only allowing specific people to see an album – memories of some pubcrawls are not tp be shared with those who “weren’t there man!”
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What a lot of people are missing (especially those for it) is this is not an “on off” anonymous or not anonymous switch.
People may want to know who they are dealing with, but “real life names” do not provide this information.
I am not going to know who Mr Jason Spencer (random name from the top of my head) on the other end of the forums is, because I’m willing to bet there are a fair number of Jason Spencers out there.
But said Mr Spencer will know exactly who I am with my real life name – there’s no one, at least not google-able, with the same name as me.
Real life names do not level the playing field. They provide varying levels of anonymity.
And a hierarchy of anonymity in any social interaction, least of all somewhere like a public internet forum, is never going to be a good idea.
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Activision Blizzard considered a lot of consequences, and they surely asked themselves “how will this affect our sales?” Truth is, it won’t hurt them significantly. As long as they don’t enforce Real Names in-game (that would be a helluva stupid move, and definitely keep more people from playing / buying), this is not much of a problem for them. For every long-standing Blizzard customer who actually boycotts their games from now on, there will be at least a 100 new players, who may have never heard of the controversy. And in the future it’ll be common to give your Real Name, and people won’t be as shocked as they are now. The market is growing rapidly and Blizzard can cope with the loss of some 1st and 2nd generation players.
This is the real danger here; Blizzard, being a huge company, sets a precedent, and others will follow.
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Indeed, forcing their players to use their real names for the sake of accountability is a step too far. Having played WoW for some time, I had first hand experience of the nonsense and pointless trolling that played out on their forums, and the abuse of posting with level 1 toons, to post malicious comments about players, or harm the reputation of some guild. But then, this sort of behaviour is rife throughout internet forums, and now Blizzard want to become the internet police and clean up the scum off their forums and community. While it may be a noble intent, something doesn’t quite sound right, but let’s not don the hats of tin quite yet…
Alec is spot on with his comment, of one incident being one incident too many when it comes abusing their planned real name system. If they really do want to clear up their forums, then an example system would be to tie a poster’s forum nickname to a master account name, displaying all character names and nickname that are associated to that account, and restricting relevant sections of their forums to players who own the respective game. That would keep accountability within the community whilst protecting people’s privacy and maintaining a separation between the world of gaming and everyday life.
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The risk for women, particularly, is high. The forum equivalent of wolf-whistling is scarcely a rare-occurrence, so to give people the tools to go further seems abhorrent.
Setting aside the bigger dangers of stalking, rape, etc., I agree that this is a problem for simple forum harassment. There are plenty of women who post online with some kind of gender-neutral handle — I’m sure there are some on RPS right now — who do so because they don’t want their gender to be a part of the discussion. Suddenly posts are not by “DeadlyElf23″ but “Megan Smith” and she’s getting lots of “OMG a gurl on the internets!” responses. And will the men being identifiable by their names stop that? Not really. Particularly for common names — does it really help Megan to know the asshole making come-ons is named “John Walker” or whomever? There are lots of John Walkers in the world =)
Hell, on an lighter note, what about a guy who’s real name is “James Penis” or something? He has to deal with the jokes all the time in real life, but can go online to his favorite forum and be whomever he wants to be. Now, every response to his discussions on Cataclysm raids or whatever is “Is that your real name?” and insults.
And again, that’s just the small stuff, before you get to the stalking and all.
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Even if you ignore stalking and virtual wolf whistlers, maybe it’s just kind of nice for some of us to be able to post somewhere and feel people take you more seriously because they don’t immediately dismiss you as female. (Because even with a female forum id, everyone knows you might easily be a male poster.)
Sound crazy? Maybe. But it’s one of the simple pleasures of being online.
I was discussing this with a friend on twitter earlier and he commented, “Don’t you want to live in a world where everyone treats you the same anyway? This could be a move towards that.”
And I was like, yeah but after spending all day every day fighting to get my voice heard in the real world, it was kind of nice to not have to do that.
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A thought has just hit me: in Eve, some players have released their real names, as it is a requirement to be part of the CSM (the player representation/consultation body that was set up a couple of years back). Now, Eve is a hive of people that take the game outside the game, and to my knowledge no CSM member has had issues thus far. And some of these people are… somewhat controversial.
Not that this is anything other than me playing devil’s advocate, I still think on balance it’s a pretty bad idea. Just perhaps not quite as an inevitable disaster as is being made out.
Oh yeah, some of them are women, too.
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On the other hand, I just remembered the group of Russians who tracked down a Titan pilot’s house, and cut the power right before an attack.
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@ Vando
Some people think it is worth the risk for their “art”. Look at journalists… writers, directors etc. etc.
Other people don’t.
Just because some people skydive shouldn’t mean that we all have to.
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Oh, I’ve seen some forums that enforced real names. Didn’t help civility none. Only served to add death threats into the mix…
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I’m saying that even one instance, just one of someone having their private life invaded (and I’m not talking purely in terms of violence, but also in terms of hassle, fear and upset – phone calls, letters, lecherous signals) because someone on a forum tracked them down as a result of seeing their name next to something they posted is one instance too much.
This is a pretty specious argument though – the “won’t someone think of the children” line. The use of real names would encourage more responsible behaviour. That’s surely to be encouraged – you’re positing the internet’s equivalent of the Daily Heil’s broken Britain fallacy and suggesting we should lock our doors and fear the unknown.
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[i]The use of real names would encourage more responsible behaviour.[/i]
You’re posting that like it’s a given. Since when have “real names” ever stopped anyone before in the history of humankind? It’s as if the supporting evidence behind this statement is that there’s no strife or fights or war in the real world.
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Iosif Vissarionovich Jughashvili took a nickname and became a real PIB griefer who murdered millions, let us call him Uncle Stalin.
Alexandros Megas wasn’t REALLY called The Great. He took a nick name and conquered Ze Wøhld.
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It’s every bit as specious as your assumption that real names will lead to more civil communications. You might want to avoid making the same poor argument that you criticize others for.
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Not specious at all – fairly logical that no anonymity would lead to less unpleasant behaviour. So you have to weigh one desirable thing that is likely to happen against one very undesirable thing that is very unlikely to happen.
Applying Alec’s argument to, for example, motorcars would have everybody driving 2 miles and hour behind a guy waving a red-flag…
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Things must be going great in your alternate world where there is no prejudice and crime.
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@FunkeyBadger, in case this reply gets mucked up again.
Actually, you’re begging the question, which is a logical fallacy. You’re assuming that less anonymity = less harassment/trolling/whatever, without actually proving it. Just because it makes sense on some level that it might be true does not make it true, and, well, since you’re claiming it .. the onus is on you, my friend.
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d4: anecdotal evidence to back up my position – ever real-life social situation I’ve been in has been conducted with a higher level of decorum (for want of a better word) than the majority of the forums I’ve read. Examples of that – I’ve been treated worse by ePeople than I ever have in face-to-face interactions (and the corollary is true, I’ve behaved worse to ePeople than I ever have to real lifers). I’m extrapolating from that basis.
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Nonsense.
I just looked at the footer of RPS and found real names of five people. I guess all of you have to change your phone numbers daily, et cetera. Because, you know, everything you said, Alec, applies to you too. Since you write there are bound to be people who dislike something you said. Since your real name can be linked with your writings, you are thusly in grave danger of being raped, murdered, and having rotten vegetables mailed to you, correct?
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Oh look, a white american dude who’s unable to understand how somebody might be harassed over who they are. What a preciously rare sight.
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Holy crap, a glibertarian too. No wonder you have zero empathy.
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To be fair for alot of people this might be hard to grasp. I admit I used to minimize this sort of stuff until I saw a whole bunch of random messages, emails, vile pictures some of my female friends received which left me stunned. And no the rise of Facebook along with full name disclosure sure didn’t alleviate this problem, on the contrary I would say.
So yeah excuse me if I don’t believe in a utopian internet where mandatory full name disclosure has driven away all the nutjobs and unstable people. A place where rational thinking, civil discussions, lack of harassment rule the day and an eternal rainbow hangs over the horizon.
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Correct. But I’ve made that choice, not had it made for me. I’m also just one person.
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@Guildenstern: More nonsense yet. Unless, that is, you actually believe that white American dudes are exempt from harassment by Internet crazies. (In which case allow me to point and laugh.) As to your ideas about libertarianism and empathy, I am going to have to point and laugh without asking permission.
@Inno: Use of real names on the Internet doesn’t drive away psychos. In fact, nothing drives away psychos. This is exactly why we call them that. What lack of anonymity does, is it prevents many otherwise “normal” people from acting like complete scum. Take, for example, our friend above. Guildenstern is an untraceable pseudonym, so he/she/it feels that it has the green light to act in any way it pleases. I, on the other hand, am going under my real name, and unless I want an everlasting public record of me being a knave – I have to watch myself. On the Internet as in real life.
In case you are curious, I have had people disagree vehemently with some of the things I said. Some of those people called me names, questioned my intelligence, sexuality, professionalism, et cetera. I have even gotten death threats in recent past. But lo and behold, I am still with you. So there is no need to panic and rile others to “think of the children.”
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I am a non-white male with a name that identifies me as such. As such, I don’t want my name all over the internet. I just don’t want people to be able to google me. That’s pretty much it, really.
Since I stopped using my real name on the internet a while ago, google shows one result for it and that itself lists my highschool and age, neither of which I have identified together with my name.
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@Alaric
I note that your last name is present neither in your sign in name nor on your blog. I also note that you are not of an ethnicity that is a frequent target of internet harrassment, not of a gender that is a frequent target of internet harrassment andhave no children or other immediate family to protect. That you are unconcerned about the state of your identity is, then, unsurprising. That you are content that no one else should be able to protect theirs renders you far worse than the internet trolls you abhor.
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@Vinraith:
What you said merely serves to prove that you are not a dangerous psycho. =) Had you been willing to dedicate your time to finding out exactly who I am, you’d easily be able to find both my last name and other information about me. Likewise you’d be able to find my family, friends, job, school, etc.
As to me being a white male and thus, supposedly, less likely to be harassed, I am sorry, but I do not buy this argument. Somehow it didn’t stop people from issuing me death threats for things I said (and drew). Somehow it didn’t stop them from calling me all sorts of things when they disagreed with my take on certain matters. People who are harassed online are the ones who actively participate, in that Alec is right. Similarly, in real life, people who get into fights are very rarely just randomly jumped.
As to me being dangerous because I am “content that no one else should be able to protect” themselves, that is simply not so. I would be if I actually forced them to post and thus reveal their name. Fortunately both playing WoW and posting on WoW forums are not a mandatory activity.
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Alaric, put your money where your mouth is.
Post your information on 4chan.
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I don’t think 4chan would care, honestly. There is no… lulz, in it.
Well, not for me.
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@Alaric
You mentioned that you have been harrassed (insults and death threats), and implied that since you are still alive and well, that this isn’t a problem. Someone tracking you down and beating you up is certainly a bad outcome, but that doesn’t make the harrassment itself any less of an issue in itself. If someone threatens your online identity, it’s easy to shrug off because you know they’re baseless; but if someone who knows who you are and where you live is harrassing you in that way, that is a serious problem for most people.
Also, your first reply @Inno regarding Guildenstern’s sarcasm shows that people who have anonymity tend to say whatever they want. And since you personally do not have it, you must “watch yourself” to avoid repercussions. I agree that anonymity tends to result in people saying what they really think, and many times that can result in flame wars and insults. However, you also say that you have received much harrassment because of your personal views, drawings, etc. I assume that those views are worth being held and worth being said, so I don’t believe they should be subdued because of other people’s disagreement with them.
Clearly, you haven’t been subdued; but not everyone is as impervious to harrassment as you are, and some have very ligitimate reasons why they would not want their views associated with their identity.
Your final point about WOW being a voluntary activity is valid; although as others have pointed out, the players who are already invested in the game have good reason to be upset at this “take it or leave” ultimatum. What I’m more concerned about is that when you really boil it down, anything you do on the internet is voluntary; but the internet as a tool and resource is so incredibly valueable and ingrained into modern society that it would be a huge and unreasonable sacrifice to cut oneself off from it. I’m not saying that blizzard’s policy will be adopted across the web if they are successful, but it is likely to be adopted in enough of the large-scale systems to make a very big difference. Imagine if it wasn’t just corporations, but governments that were forcing this policy.
Oh, wait :(
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@DJ Phantoon
I’m afraid I must agree with Klaus here. I am not nearly fun enough for the folks at 4chan to waste their time on me. If anything, they would probably find it more exciting to haunt the RPS guys, since they are well known, while I am quite obscure. If I am wrong though, they can easily find all of my information anyway. In that sense I do put my money where my mouth is. In a thread below, someone already found my full name and other data. A negligible amount of effort is required for that.
@Devan
If someone is “harassing” me on the Internet by calling me a “commie bastard, ” a “fag,” or some such, I consider it a non-issue. It doesn’t bother me one bit, and the only problem it could potentially cause is taking up too much screen-space, in which case I will simply use an ignore feature that is present on most forums. (Of course those who are actually bothered by it could use the ignore feature right off the bat.)
If someone is harassing me in real life, it will not matter to me how they came to find me. My actions will be the same either way, namely contacting the Police and having this nuisance taken care of. The thing is, when harassment crosses from “teh intrenets” into the real world, most of the offender’s anonymity is instantly gone. Unless we are talking about piracy, all ISPs and web sites are only too happy to cooperate with law enforcement.
Yes, there is of course the 0.000000000000000001% chance that I will be stalked by an untraceable psychotic genius who is hell-bent on killing me… but I think I have a significantly higher likelihood of dying of food poisoning rather than by his hand.
As to people being fearful of disclosing their legitimate views, yes, that is a sad fact of life, which has not become obsolete with the invention of the Internet. There are places where I would never openly share some of my views because that would only lead to pain and death. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Very much so. It is too bad that many people are evil and stupid, and I wish it wasn’t so.
Lastly, on the topic of women. Many here have said that if a woman posts under her real name she is opening herself up to stalkers, etc. Yes. This is so. However, she also does the same thing every time she steps out of her house. People see her. People know she is a woman. Some of these people can be stalkers who can follow her home. Some are just scum who will wolf-whistle and so on. The internet doesn’t make it any more dangerous than that. If anything it adds another layer of complexity for these people.
Some Islamic authorities would have us believe that women should cover their bodies and faces so that men are not tempted to attack them. I am sure none of you would argue that this is the way to go. We all know that the problem is not with the women, but with those men. So why punish the woman by making her cover herself up, or hide under a gender-neutral nick name online?
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Lastly, on the topic of women. Many here have said that if a woman posts under her real name she is opening herself up to stalkers, etc. Yes. This is so. However, she also does the same thing every time she steps out of her house. People see her. People know she is a woman. Some of these people can be stalkers who can follow her home. Some are just scum who will wolf-whistle and so on. The internet doesn’t make it any more dangerous than that. If anything it adds another layer of complexity for these people.
A e-stalker can use google and other tools to know all about his victim. If he is on a different country, the victim can hardly do anything. The e-stalker can stay anonymous, so can stalk the victim from cover. Internet pace is slower than real life. If you have a love affair over internet, It will evolve really slow, and will put lots of time on imagining your partner, idealizing, converting your partner in a “character”. This also work wen the love relation is one side. Internet exacervate love, so crazies have good reasons to be x20 more crazy over the internet. Internet is a position of power for e-stalkers, and you have to protect yourself. Using a nickname is not enough, but posting your real name is a direct-to-problem idea.
Some Islamic authorities would have us believe that women should cover their bodies and faces so that men are not tempted to attack them. I am sure none of you would argue that this is the way to go. We all know that the problem is not with the women, but with those men. So why punish the woman by making her cover herself up, or hide under a gender-neutral nick name online?
The veil separate the men from the women, making the women a faceless entitie, a thing. Owned by the men. The nickname is the oposite thing, make so girls, womens, mens, grandparents, childrens, teenagers, preteens, transgender, gay, homo, and everyone can share a forum, talk to each other in a civil way, and not one know what the other people is and his sexual preferences, his born gender, etc. It reunite people. Anonymity force people to talk each another like people. It almost destroy things like the ad homine fallacy. If you are 11 years old, and you make a good point as Nihilatn8, I will read it at the same level a novel prize with nickname Farcrass3. Is a leveling area, that make us all equal.
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@Tei
If someone can be twenty times more crazy on the Internet, it is exactly because they are anonymous. But even if we take your argument at face value, still all this means it is twenty times easier to block them on the Internet as opposed to the real life, where dangers are physical. And if, like you said, the stalker is in another country, they are then largely inconsequential and easily ignored.
And you are deeply mistaken when you think that anonymity allows people to put away their differences. What it allows is for people to behave like knaves because they can get away with it in a way that would be impossible in person.
Once again, the Internet is no different that any other aspect of life. A person has to choose whom to associate with. If your chosen group is a bunch of cretins who will terrorize you if they only learn your real name… then perhaps the problem is your choice of company, and not what you go by online.
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This article strongly suggests that a change in South Korean law is driving this decision:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/zeroday/2010/07/07/is-korean-law-driving-policy-at-blizzard/
Basically, in 2009 South Korea passed a law insisting that all users who comment on sites with more than 100,000 members must do so using their real name. When Google refused to comply, the SK government tried to take legal action, so Google simply blocked all SK ISP numbers from commenting on YouTube, provoking an outcry until Google and YouTube were exempted from the law. Basically, for Google South Korea is such a small revenue stream they had zero problem shutting them out of their forums.
Blizzard, to put it mildly, do not have the same luxury. However, I can’t fathom why they couldn’t simply have this RealID system on the Korean-language forums and not have to enforce it on the rest.
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No reason to insult him. His point isn’t without merit. The RPS crew are a prime example, they frequently offer up opinions or commentary the RPS readers don’t agree with, yet they’re all still alive and apparently healthy.
For that matter, over the years since WoW was launched, several Blizzard employees have said things on the forums or their personal sites that were inflammatory in one way or another, yet no one from the WoW forums killed them in the streets.
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I don’t like relying on 4chan for an argument, but if you want an example of the garden variety stalking someone could get merely for having ‘a fucking amazing voice’, just look at the first reply: http://i.imgur.com/RG8Wl.png
It’s not just about having your name on the internet. It’s having your name right in front of the person you’re arguing with on what can usually be a very emotive topic that raises anger. As you’re keen to bring up the writers here, do you think any of them play MMO’s or post on MMO forums under their actual names? Of course not. It’s all about knowing where you feel appropriate disclosing your name.
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Shane: I must admit, I’m half* in your corner here. I’ve been saying all kinds of monstrous, offensive shit** on the internet for 15 years under my real name and avoided any serious blowback. Clearly, it could have, but realistically speaking, it hasn’t. If it hasn’t happened to me, after several incidents involving hundreds of folk insulting me to the point of death wishes from raging communities, I’m not sure it’s quite the issue.
And – on a personal level – if someone isn’t willing to put their real name on a comment, I’m aware that I take it less seriously. If you’re not willing to stand behind it properly, on some level, you’re a dilettante. You didn’t mean it, because you didn’t want it on the record. You’re just fucking around.
Though: as other folks says, this is totally a “thing” to cut down the size of the WoW community. Less screaming anonymous people, more people who at least are willing to put a name behind what they’re saying. And, on some level, I’m interested in seeing how it turns out. It’ll probably be a disaster, but studying how it actually shakes down is going to teach folk a whole lot about Internet social patterns.
Maybe I’ll write something tomorrow. We’ll see. Probably not.
KG
*But only half, for all the obvious serious reasons that this thread is full of.
**i.e. Stuff some people are going to find offensive.
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@Kandon Arc
lol. That is beautiful. Thank you, friend.
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TWO MEN ENTER
ONE MAN LEAVES!
Does RPS have an official stance on Thunderdome?
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@ Kieron Gillen: “…if someone isn’t willing to put their real name on a comment, I’m aware that I take it less seriously. If you’re not willing to stand behind it properly, on some level, you’re a dilettante. You didn’t mean it, because you didn’t want it on the record. You’re just fucking around.”
A slightly unfashionable approach is taken by The Economist which doesn’t give bylines, apparently to avoid having ‘celebrity egomaniac’ journalists polishing their own ‘brand’ and image, being overprotective of their work and less collaborative. It also avoids articles that revolves around “I’m an expert and I say X is true” and it allows a consistent house style.
Link: http://andreaskluth.org/2008/11/20/why-the-economist-has-no-bylines/
I agree that reviews or opinion-pieces from identified professional journalists, writers and critics tend to carry more weight and anonymous ones can look like cheap shots but I’d argue that this context is different to non-professionals who choose to adopt an online pseudonym so that they can speak freely. This could be due to their line of employment (eg they might be a teacher or police officer), their personal life or because they have already used the same name for talking about all sorts of wierd and wonderful stuff on a range of forums, not just writing a review.
I’ve been using the same ‘username’ for almost 10 years including talking about stuff of questionable legality, personal and health issues, lots of politics and so forth. This isn’t because “I don’t mean it”, it is because I don’t want people (employers, government, family, anyone I annoy) tracking my involvement in politics and protests, involvement with squat parties, my sexual activity and preferences, my drug consumption, my declared and undeclared cash-flow/work, my spending habits and any benefits received, my mental health history or even how long I spend online. I don’t want this to get linked to my family or other people I have shared addresses with. Some people out there do know bits and pieces and could find out more if they really investigated but not by simply googling my name.
If I was just writing reviews, making my living by mouthing-off and prancing around with a larger-than-life public persona and just wanted to share things about myself that made me look better / smarter / nicer / more employable / etc then it would make sense to use a “real name” to show I wasn’t just ‘playing’ at it. But for what I am doing I can “keep it real” far better by using a pseudonym. Whether people actually believe me comes down to how I communicate, by my remaining consistent and whether what I am saying is coherent, rather than being able to point to a photograph & name and say “look – this makes me *more* real”! Fear my authenticity! After all plenty of people talk utter s##t right to people’s faces.
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@ kieron
And – on a personal level – if someone isn’t willing to put their real name on a comment, I’m aware that I take it less seriously. If you’re not willing to stand behind it properly, on some level, you’re a dilettante. You didn’t mean it, because you didn’t want it on the record. You’re just fucking around.
From a person who writes about impingement of civil liberties and other various issues i find the two standpoints completely unreconcilable from a logic standpoint. Clearly, all the people here who are putting their serious, non-flaming comments are just fucking around. Just as all those anonymous whistle-blowers are just fucking around or the people that journalists protect who don’t put their name to the content of the articles that give you your bread and butter are just fucking around.
I think that’s the second time you’ve disappointed me.
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“after several incidents involving hundreds of folk insulting me to the point of death wishes from raging communities, I’m not sure it’s quite the issue.”
That’s *exactly* the issue, Kieron. You’re fine with getting those sorts of messages. Hell, you even choose it, to some extent. Hundreds of thousands of others would be freaked the hell out to find that kind of thing in their inbox – and especially if it includes barbs and threats based on someone’s background or lifestyle.
(I regret even mentioning the worst case scenario, as everyone’s knee-jerking to that and ignoring what I’ve said on the much more likely and thus more important threat of unwanted, unsettling harassment).
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Alec: That’s the thing. Nothing’s ever been done with my *real name*. All I’ve ever had is the very occasional e-mail and people at shouting at me in comment threads. Well – that’s what happens anyway if you write inflammatory shit online, whether your real name is attached to it or not. That’s a perfectly acceptable level of harassment for what I do. And, frankly, if you write stuff that gets people angry online, that’s the sort of level of harassment you should be willing to accept. People need to realise that what they say online has consequences they should be willing to live with.
Yes, you’ve made that choice. And I have. And if you post on the Blizzard boards, you have too.
However, I’d also like to stress what I said in the post, I’m not pro-it, for all the other reasons in the thread. I just don’t think this line of critique is the strongest one.
I also think you’re being more than a little unfair characterising people who are arguing with you as obsessed by the worst case scenarios. I think the generally leaning anti-side are just as obsessed with it, as shown by the next two answers.
Duoae: What can I say? It’s far easier for me to hear I’ve disappointed you when you’re hiding behind a fake identity. The idea that standard internet discourse should be treated with the anonymity of whistle-blowers is ludicrous. The point of whistle-blowers is that it is an exceptional situation. In real life, we only get anonymity where there’s a clear and present danger to speaking out.
TeeJay: I don’t think a web forum about games is comparable to any of the other aspects of life you list. The idea that because some parts of your life demand anonymity all of it does just wrong – and the idea that all venues of internet chat should support your desire for anonymity doesn’t hold. It’s not as if you have to go there.
KG
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@ Kieron:
What can I say? It’s far easier for me to hear I’ve disappointed you when you’re hiding behind a fake identity. The idea that standard internet discourse should be treated with the anonymity of whistle-blowers is ludicrous. The point of whistle-blowers is that it is an exceptional situation. In real life, we only get anonymity where there’s a clear and present danger to speaking out.
I wasn’t saying that it was equal but that it’s on the same scale. One of the things about the internet is that it abolished all those people who only listened if you have money or a doctorate or a ‘sir’ in front of your name. Instead what is important is the opinion rather than the person. Hiding the person reduces the chance of the other people attacking that person rather than the idea – which is what i was trying to get at.
Saying that you respect my ideas less by rubbishing and questioning who i am and what my motives are for hiding is just another way of doing that. There is (and was) a real problem with station within society and the internet and anonymity neatly gets around all those preconceived notions. You can’t belittle my idea because i’m female or black or foreign or disabled or whatever….
Perhaps if i wrote this under my real name and my position with several reference letters vouching for my sanity and character… and with my qualifying grades in university and the letters after my name … you might respect me more for it. Similarly, i might look down on you for the same reasons. Why should i lower myself to your level? Why should i listen to anything you have to say? Who are you? What have you done?
It’s a specious argument and i’m surprised that you’re making it.
The thing is – i’m not hiding behind Duoae. I am Duoae on the internet.
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Same scale? Yeah, but that’s a total cheat. Sometimes it’s the right thing to do to kill someone. Sometimes it’s not. That there’s a scale of killing doesn’t mean that all killing is legal – or, to flip it, that all killing is wrong. The question is, where on the scale are we here? And we’re not at the whistle-blowing end, which is why you bringing it up was wrong.
Generally speaking though – lovely humanist technoutopianism and obviously easy to sympathise with, but being on the net since 1994, it’s never worked*. The smartest, most civil places I’ve ever been have been real-name-only. Go the other way, and you gain what you say. You lose any form of responsibility. Without brilliant mods, the latter seems to make more of a mess than the former – because any web group creates its own social rules which are just as judgemental as anything we import from the real world. We don’t end up ejecting everything but the message as much as we’d hope. Even for blank comments, people will make sweeping assumptions of who you are by what you write. We seem unable to eject the flesh.
Honestly, it’s a flux and I wouldn’t say there’s a clear line. There’s places real names help. There’s places where they may not. For example, I think having people below adult age with their real names online really tricky, not least because it’ll haunt them on the Internet forever. We should be teaching people real, proper Internet use stuff.
And I’ll also stress that I was talking personally in the first post. And it just is easier to be insulted by CS_f000ker14 rather than Tom Mills, because I can dismiss the first one as just another person hiding on the Internet. Because unless you do use your real name, you *are* just someone hiding on the Internet. It’s a scale, of course – what sort of username, what sort of writing, etc – most of which have more of an effect than “Are they using their real name?”. But I’d be lying if I said that it didn’t have *some* effect.
KG
*In forums, anyway. I’ve always thought it worked best with the broadcast parts of the Internet. Blogging, etc.
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@ Kieron:
I think i agree with you more than i initially thought, though we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the rest :)
The smartest, most civil places I’ve ever been have been real-name-only. Go the other way, and you gain what you say. You lose any form of responsibility. Without brilliant mods, the latter seems to make more of a mess than the former
I’ve never been active anywhere (except gameindustry.biz) that required names but i found that rules (and rules that were strictly enforced) helped keep places civil and manageable. One of the things that people seem to forget is that places that require real names are self-selecting environments. People who are cognizant of the dangers of showing the world that they have silly opinions will not make those mistakes and, generally speaking what i’ve seen of the places that require names tend to be specialist or professional environments. The smaller the community the less chance that those people who are emotionally invested in it are going to ruin it for themselves and the other friends they have made.
I realise that it’s never going to be some sort of perfect utopic-universe but we have to strive for the best we can and, IMO, the current undercurrents of society just aren’t mature enough to have a level-ish playing field from their names.
I can understand that, from your perspective, people who have written names down to their opinions and ideas makes a difference. For me it does not (with possibly the exception of rude names which generally precipitate bad behaviour anyway) and i can’t really respect that sort of thinking because if i had posted under the pseudonym Charles Wattingdon i might get more respect or leeway than Duoae. Eventually all usable usernames are used up and we have to turn to the surreal or meaningful rather than the joyless and imagineless John_Smith22….
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Save us from John_Smith22.
(And, as someone with an interest in identity and ability to define and re-define it, my opinions here really do alter from situation to situation. Because it is complex.)
KG
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@Kieron:
How about the case of protecting other people from potential harassment? Like family members and friends? The Blizzard employee who posted their real name ended up having the names and ages of his mother and brother posted too. I think it’s completely acceptable for people to keep their real name private for the sake of others, and all legitimacy isn’t lost in the face of an online handle. Many people, like me, use their handle all around the Internet, because just as an online identity is different from a real one, an online presence is different from a real one. No one can look up what I said yesterday about what I thought of people who dismiss the World Cup, but they COULD do that if I posted it online – because it would always be there. Conversations you have in real life don’t have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of voyeurs to them either.
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Hammer: You’re not Superman or another heroic masked vigilante! Point still holds – you’re going online and doing this stuff. You should know what that means. As in, you’re not just opening yourself up.
You kind of make my point for me. You’re saying the Internet and the world are different places. They’re not. Generally speaking, that’s what I wish people would realise.
KG
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@Kieron: Well, with a name like “The Hammer”, maybe I am!
But I disagree that the online space and the offline space are the same things. I agree that both are real, but like I said, they work in fundamentally different ways. People act completely differently in them. I know myself I come across as a more thoughtful, verbose, occasionally eloquent sort of guy online, whereas offline I joke on most of the time, take up a goofy personality, and find it hard to elaborate on points. Because the means of communication are completely different, that totally changes the dynamic. Perhaps a lot of people’s online and offline identities are much closer together than some other people’s, but…
Really, yes, online life only happens when you’re sitting in front of a PC screen in your actual physical life. So yes, you’re the same person. But at the same time you’ve a chance to act in a completely different way – not because you’re now free to be a dickhead, but because there’s not an actual person in front of you, to talk to, to keep eyes with, and to not just ignore if they don’t interest you. Communication takes a drastic shift where suddenly social cues, linguistics, and body language are replaced with grammar and spelling, interests, and ideology. Both online and offline you’re able to hide things about yourself which you can’t in the other side of life. You may argue that together they form a whole, a complete picture if you will, but what happened -before- the Internet? Was that not whole too? And if so, is there now -more- of an identity, or, as I’d say, an -added- one?
The other thing, with the “you’re not willing to stand by what you say if you don’t use a real name for it”. It’s an idealist point of view, isn’t it? People generally want to get jobs and not have their chances of getting a job ruined by their 3000 word posts on the best spell rotation to use in Trial of the Crusader. That they don’t attach a real, actual name to the words expressed doesn’t mean that they aren’t serious about them, but that they’re thinking practically. Generally speaking, not everyone is in a secure job, with a reputation that keeps them in it, no matter how deep their views on mana regeneration go. It’s the same case with a lot of stuff, not relating to jobs – I just don’t think saying that they’re to somehow be taken less seriously.
You’re right though – this is really complex to argue. MY BRAIN HURTS.
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The baffling thing about this decision is not merely the obvious pitfalls of it, but that there doesn’t seem to be any tangible gain from it. Yet it’s unlikely that people will be hassled, but is even a low chance worth it when the change offers nothing in return?
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As I said in the other thread, I think people need to take a step back here and stop being hysterical.
You have NO right to anonymity on the Net – if a site requires your ‘real name’ and you don’t like that idea, simply don’t join/post on that site – not hard, is it?
A lot of the nonsense which the Internet harbours is rooted in this idea that you’re safe and anonymous behind your keyboard – I think a little more exposure and accountability would be more of a positive thing than you imagine.
Remember – EVERYONE is going to be in the same boat, it’s not like 1 person’s ID is suddenly revealed, everyone will be in the same position.
To the people who are crowing about security and privacy – that’s also clearly nonsense so long as your ‘RealID’ in no way gives any clue to your email or login details (and even then – Blizzard have the authenticator to keep things nicely secured anyway). Most people’s name are far from unique – tracking someone from that alone would be quite difficult for most people.
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There are problems with this, but it will improve the forums, and y’know, the problem kind of isn’t Blizzard’s is it?
They let people see your name. That’s all. No location. No address. No phone number. Just a name. We give them away all the time. It’s one of the first things we tell people. We use it for everything.
Surely if someone can find your address or phone number from your name, then that’s either your fault, or the fault of whatever website is giving that information away to anyone with Google. Not the fault of the Blizzard.
And that’s the crux of it folk. Displaying your real name on the Warcraft forums doesn’t make it *easier* to stalk you. It gives people a reason to. And Alec is right. This will cause problems at first. But y’know, we kinda need to grow the fuck up. It shouldn’t cause problems. No more so than any other place where people’s names are given out freely. Are WoW players really that bad compared the whole rest of the world? Well, yeah we probably are. But we shouldn’t be. This sort of fearmongering is perpetuating the stereotype of gamers being social maladjusts that will harass and stalk people. There’s no bloody uproar about them using people’s full names on the auditions for X Factor is there? This should work. It should make things better.
It won’t. And we should be ashamed of that.
(Flip side: this is a really bad idea but only because I don’t want people to Google my name and see that I play WoW. Don’t care if most people know, but it still has a stigma that might lead a HR drone to drop you in the reject pile).
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@ Dean:
They let people see your name. That’s all. No location. No address. No phone number. Just a name. We give them away all the time. It’s one of the first things we tell people. We use it for everything.
Surely if someone can find your address or phone number from your name, then that’s either your fault, or the fault of whatever website is giving that information away to anyone with Google. Not the fault of the Blizzard.
And that’s the crux of it folk. Displaying your real name on the Warcraft forums doesn’t make it *easier* to stalk you
Actually, displaying your name DOES make you easier to stalk. Then there’s the fact that your username for login is your password – your account was hacked and the hacker now knows your email address and your full name? GREAT!
Just because other companies have poor security policies or they were hacked or whatever doesn’t make it right that another company requires that you open yourself up for “cross-referencing”. It may not be Blizzard’s fault but it is their responsibiltiy to protect their users from harrassment and danger. The last time i checked Acti-Blizz don’t control life, the universe and everything else so making your name (as it happens to be Blanche Darrensmith – a highly common name i assure you!) public for anyone to take issue with doesn’t make it right or good.
The other thing is that, no, in real life your name isn’t used in the same way. Sure, you introduce yourself by your first name all the time. How many truly random people could pick your name out of a list of similar names after meeting you casually once or twice? Switch that to online where they have a permanent record of every conversation you ever had and thus can mine that for bits of data and you soon realise that you have a very different situation.
You give your phone number out all the time but many people still prefer to be ex-directory. I wonder why that is?
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See the thing is that out of sheer curiosity I wanted to see how hard it is to find somebody on the internet. I have to say that the phone company has made it scarily easy these days in America which makes me glad that I always opt for being ex-directory. They even put a handy little bing maps link. I like Bing maps as they have awesome birds eye views from helicopters or planes.
You may not be worried about what other people are doing with your personal information but that doesn’t mean that other people aren’t.
Also people who put there real names on the internet willingly tend to have already taken steps to ensure that it’s as hard as possible for people to connect their real name to an address in the real world usually by making sure they aren’t in the phone book.
Unfortunately due to the magic of the whois info on a domain name it can sometimes be even easier to find out exactly where somebody lives unless the domain has been registered by a faceless company on your behalf (like godaddy does).
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Bobby Kotick: The wire transfer to your Cayman account should be finalized within the week. I’ve already discussed the matter with the Swiss banker.
Mike Morhaime: I take it he was agreeable?
BK: He didn’t really have a choice.
MM: Has his account been deleted?
BK: Oh yes. Most certainly. When I mentioned we could restore it with max level characters and gearscores over 9000, he was so willing it was almost pathetic.
MM: This RealID… the rioting is intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain it.
BK: Why contain it? Let it spill over onto other forums and the general media, let the stalker victims pile up in unemployment centers and psychiatric wards. In the end they’ll beg us to like their progression status.
MM: I’ve received reports of 4chan attacks on Blizzard employees and female gamers. There’s not enough privacy to go around and those who value their rights are starting to get desperate.
BK: Of course they’re desperate; they can smell the death of their anonymity, and the sound they’ll make rattling their cages will serve as a warning to the rest.
MM: Mmm. I hope you’re not underestimating the problem. The others may not go as quietly as you think — intelligence indicates they’re behind the problems in spamming the forums.
BK: A bunch of pretentious concerned customers playing at keeping developers focused on gaming. But the world left them behind long ago. Total social integration is the future.
MM: We have other problems.
BK: ESRB?
MM: Formed to independently assign ratings, enforce advertising guidelines, and ensure responsible online privacy practices. I have someone in place though. I’m more concerned about Canada’s PIPEDA and the FTC’s Privacy Initiatives.
BK: Our cash reserves are far ahead of theirs, as is our crack law team, and their… ‘ethical inflexibility’ has allowed us to make progress in areas they refuse to consider.
MM: Bribery techniques?
BK: Among other things. But, I must admit, I’ve been somewhat disappointed with past legal precedents.
MM: New precedents should be set soon. There are preparations to put new people in place and should be available within six months. My people will continue to report on our progress. If necessary the uncooperative will be terminated.
BK: We’ve had to endure much, you and I, but soon there will be enough money to buy out the debt of every nation and conquer the rest. A new age. Aquinas spoke of the mythical city on the hill, soon that city will be a reality and we will be crowned its kings. Or, better than kings… gods!
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The ESRB bit especially made me lol, I have to say.
Jolly good show.
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What a shame.
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That was brilliant
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This is a work of beauty.
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Interesting that most of the people telling me I’m wrong to be worried appesr to reacting only to the mere mention of worst case scenarios, and completely ignoring the clearly-stated wider issue of simple harassment.
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For the purposes of disclosure then, and given that you and your co-workers are in a unique position to be freely contacted by anyone. How often are you harassed, and how has it negatively impacted your life or your ability to do your job?
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I should like to join Shane in his question.
Moreover, I should like to remind you, that playing WoW and, especially, posting on WoW forums are both voluntary activities. Much like Facebook or any other site/service/game where real names are required. If any person feels that it is not in their best interest to have their name online, they are most certainly free to avoid this particular forum, just as they (presumably) avoid other such places.
As to your argument that “one is too much” I have no choice but to agree. However, we should then apply this logic to everything else. For example, since even one car accident is, clearly, too much, let’s ban cars altogether.
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Furthermore – let’s assume that Blizzard deem your RealID to be AMeer23 and you’re on the EU forums – how many people do you think could match your ID???
I have to say I think it’s a slightly daft idea – but not half as daft as the near-Daily Mail levels of outrage people have come up with in response to it!!
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@Alaric your arguments contradict themselves, leaving the house is a voluntary activity and you don’t need to drive a car so why should we have any safety standards for the roads? If you’re sacred you just shouldn’t use the roads, its all voluntary.
To be more serious voluntaryness is an absurd reason to dismiss concerns. WoW players have likely invested a lot of money and a heck of a lot of time into their game characters over a long period, during which their privacy was not at stake if they wanted tech support or to discuss things on the game’s official forums. They have a stake in the system that is completely valid and thus have every reason to voice their concern. Yes they don’t have to keep playing or desiring tech support or whatever but it is entirely reasonable of them to have concerns and expectations about said voluntary action.
How much harassment must Alec have been subjected to for it to be a satisfactory amount? Alec of course does this for his job and being known his to his benefit and potential harassment is obviously outweighed by the benefits of being known of. However playing a computer game, one you’ve played potentially for a long time, has no benefits to other people knowing your name, especially in a scenario where you have no say over the matter so people don’t want that, as is entirely reasonable.
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how has it negatively impacted your life or your ability to do your job?
Because if it doesn’t/hasn’t that makes it ok?
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Public figures (like journalist) != normal people.
Journalist have some bias anti-anonymity, maybe because the journos can’t have that luxury, and is a luxury that make his work harder, or something… (I don’t know) but that bias exist.
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@ReV_VAdAUL
Hold on a moment. I think you (and possibly a few others) have misunderstood me. I am not in favor of this change. As a general rule I do believe that privacy is a good thing. With that said, I am also against panic. So far as I am concerned, Blizzard forums displaying people’s real names is not a reason to cry that “the sky is falling!” This move would certainly inconvenience some people, and that is unfortunate. However, it would improve the experience of others. In the end it would very likely balance itself out. I simply hold that it is premature to get bent out of shape over it at this point.
@Klaus
Quite frankly – yes. If it is not harmful then it is in fact “OK.”
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Mr.Alaric.
http://www.avault.com/blogs/teplitsky/onlive/
If you already publish stuff with your real name, you are a public figure. As that, you expect morons to know your real name. Is the trade off. So you can warn your family, and you know what to expect, and you get a benefict. Your life (as a result) is different from normal people.
Normal people may need to hide from his boss that play the videogame X. You can write a article about X, and get it published in Avault. Maybe normal people has created a “divide” betwen his gaming life, and others parts of his life. There are very good reasons to do that (like having a set of “Internet friends” and other set of “Real life friends”).
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But a guarantee of anonymity shouldn’t be the answer to harassment. I mean, harassment already happens, in game and by private message. At least now that harassment will have a real name that can be reported to the police with. Of course, what you give with one hand, you take with the other, as it makes it easier to harass people in real life…
But maybe we should be sorting out these harassment issues by clamping down legally and punishing appropriately? Rather than running scared? I think this will blow up, but when it does I hope Blizzard doesn’t back down, and instead works to help ensure these psycho nutters are dealt with.
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@ Shane
I can’t speak for the team here, but the fact that they are all men, and apparently white would greatly reduce the abuse they receive.
Just recently I had the ill fortune of witnessing someone with a female character on a warband server being harassed so badly that this poor person had to go and change to a male avatar so they could play in peace. (The harassment was of the “I want to do xyz to you!!!” kind)
I’ve also witnessed people with Cyrillic names being treated to abuse such as “Get out of here stupid russian”, etc.
Lastly, I took the liberty of googling myself to see how badly this feature would affect me, if I decided to register at the blizzard boards for some reason. The third link on the first page was a page from my employer’s website, which has my work address, work email and work phone number. There is no way in hell I would want some angsty teenager having access to this information.
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Alaric, you ARE in favor of the change.
You apparently think people keeping their mouths shut because of some silly slap on the wrists like an account ban will offset the harassment.
You defend the change, thus, you are in favor of it. It is not possible to not be in favor of something while also defending it without acknowledging realistic flaws. Addressing them as ‘inconvenienced’ is NOT realistic.
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Some of you are making some key mistakes in reasoning here; first is that Alec is a single person, and his experience is purely anecdotal. Neither he nor any of you should be using it to make any sort of decision regarding this, because he may very well fall on an extreme end of a bell curve and literally receive zero harassment. What I’m getting at is that HIS experience is not the experience which YOU or anyone else will receive, and you should therefore be very hesitant to generalize his experience across a broad sampling of players.
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The possibility of harassment in real life because I post using my real name is simply anecdotal.
Only in the internet this thought could ever develop. The place that introduce to the masses the idea they can hide their selves behind some alias and thus avoid both the consequences of their actions as well as the actions of others around them. More harm has been done to the moral integrity and freedom of speech of posters behind the cover of anonymity in the internet, than anywhere else. You don’t need to go far. Just read some of the comments on this blog or any other public space where people disagree sometimes violently.
A moniker is often used as an offensive mechanism. Do not pretend to ignore that Alec. It’s been used as a weapon to insult, injure and harass people on the internet. Conversely, no one is protected from it by adopting a moniker. So, as far as the internet goes, a moniker protects no one but the offenders. As for the real life, the reality of it is that you cannot, under no circumstance, link real names on the internet to harassment in real life. You have no data whatsoever to back up your claim. At most anecdotal evidence. As the exact same value (read, no value) as my claim that just because I use my real name I have never been harassed in real life, despite the fact I’m often swimming against the tide concerning my opinions and have been the victim of internet harassment before.
What I find distressing, to tell you frankly, is this idea that people around the internet have some unspoken right to isolate themselves from real life. The whole RL/Online dichotomy is a joke. The whole “escape” bullshit that only serves to protect this joke, is one of the most elaborate lies to support unaccountability. Nothing more. It’s an alibi for a crime. If you want to really “escape”, there’s better methods: throw yourself off a bridge, find counseling or move to the countryside. The internet is, almost by definition these days, a violent place. No matter whether you use your name or not. You won’t find any comfort here. Only more grief, because there’s always a gR54tYbUbbLe waiting to make you feel miserable if you let them.
Will a real name change this? Probably. Some. Little. Not much. Who really cares? Internet is just an extension of life as it is, and the people that inhabit this planet. Anyone concerned they will be the victims of harassment because they use a real name, should play by the same rules they do in real life. Don’t go to those forums.
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@BennyLava
I am one of those people with Cyrillic sounding names. In fact I am a Russian (born in Moscow) even though I’ve lived in the US for most of my life. If someone tells me to “go back to Russia” or calls me a “commie” … well, so what? If this is the sort of “harassment” and “abuse” that is being discussed here, then it is a complete and utter non-issue.
@DJ Phantoon
It is a bit presumptuous of you to inform me authoritatively of what my views are, isn’t it? ;) Be as it may, I repeat, I am not a proponent of this change, nor am I an opponent of it. I just don’t think that the fuss that is being raised is reasonable and warranted. I do acknowledge the flaws, but do not believe they are as dire as you make them seem. You may, of course, disagree vehemently, but if anything, you know that I mean what I say, since I’m posting it under my own honest name.
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“Moreover, I should like to remind you, that playing WoW and, especially, posting on WoW forums are both voluntary activities.”
Did you see that skirt? She was askin’ for it!
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@Vodkarn
No, actually quite the opposite. You seem to have missed a part of my post above, so I will repeat it for you here:
“Lastly, on the topic of women. Many here have said that if a woman posts under her real name she is opening herself up to stalkers, etc. Yes. This is so. However, she also does the same thing every time she steps out of her house. People see her. People know she is a woman. Some of these people can be stalkers who can follow her home. Some are just scum who will wolf-whistle and so on. The internet doesn’t make it any more dangerous than that. If anything it adds another layer of complexity for these people.
Some Islamic authorities would have us believe that women should cover their bodies and faces so that men are not tempted to attack them. I am sure none of you would argue that this is the way to go. We all know that the problem is not with the women, but with those men. So why punish the woman by making her cover herself up, or hide under a gender-neutral nick name online?”
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Anyone concerned they will be the victims of harassment because they use a real name, should play by the same rules they do in real life. Don’t go to those forums.
Nonsense, I don’t worry about this shit in real life because people love their meaningless small chat and politeness. Outside of 4chan and in general non-troll areas of the internet, I have been called a racial epithet several times, in real life I never been called one. The first and only time I used my name online, I received an email asking me ‘how much of Islam influences my writing,’ and that ‘my religion is evil.’ When I go to forums I prefer to let people think I’m white. It usually works out for me, unless I say something stupid and bring attention to myself.
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So why punish the woman by making her cover herself up, or hide under a gender-neutral nick name online?
I was more under the impression that women typically hid themselves in such communities. The problem is dozens of lonely men asking a women for her contact details isn’t proper harassment. What is ‘SarahAwesome123′ going to do, report each male that contacts her? Even if they do it once?
Bringing their names to light isn’t going to empower them, or anyone. All it’s going to do is give these lonely fellows names to run through facebook and myspace.
“Hi there! It’s me, Joe Smith. From the guild, on WoW.. I saw your name and…”
Yes, the problems are the men, but they’re not actually breaking in rules, I believe.
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Good for you Alaric – but isn’t it a bit unfair to assume that everyone else should just deal with it because you find such abuse “a complete and utter non-issue”? Sure, you need thick skin in real life but we’re talking about a bloody games forum here. People should be able to enjoy themselves without having to deal with issues like these.
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Well, the internet gave rise to reviewers recieving death threats from fucked up little fanboys.
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@ Alaric
If someone tells me to “go back to Russia” or calls me a “commie” … well, so what? If this is the sort of “harassment” and “abuse” that is being discussed here, then it is a complete and utter non-issue.
I see. So just because some people are okay with being blind or disabled then if we follow your logic ALL people are fine with being blind or disabled. Your argument is fallacious. Similarly, not every person has an emotional breakdown over certain similar events…. but some do. Others can see people killed in front of them and are not affected whilst their companions become mentally unhinged. Are you so heartless and lacking in empathy that you’re ready to dismiss other people’s concerns and problems?
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@Mario
You’ve written a great number of words to say what seems to amount to “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to hide.”
I don’t buy it.
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@shane
You see, thay’s exaclty the point for people like this blog authors is their job, for eveyrone that plays is their Hobby, and the huge majority of them have no wish to be harassed in real life because of their hobby, like it was said several times, violence will only happen in extreme cases, people harassing you will be much more common, and why should paying costumers be vulnerable to real life harassment in any way, shape or form?
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This is such an absurd argument I barely know where to begin. Firstly, when you see someone in the street it’s not necessarily straight forward to find out their name. Without that you’re left with tracking them down by other means (like following them) which is quite difficult to do without arousing suspicion and that fact alone is enough to slow people down. Indeed attempting to find out someone’s name means exposing yourself as well. For you see in the real world both parties are in the open. However on the net that isn’t necesarily the case, and while a stalker can hide in plain sight in life the fact that it’s usually someone who is known to the victim narrows the field a lot when it comes to discovering the culprit. A Wow forum stalker type can farm thousands of potential targets undetected.
The comparison between internet anonimity and the veil in Islam is even worse. One is a religious dogma and social more, the other is a choice that enables people to avoid a lot of social mores or at least control to some extent how they face aspects of social life. Included in that is avoiding completely the very people discussed in your point one. They aren’t remotely alike.
I really don’t think this is going to cause a catastrophe of sexual assault or harrassment cases or anything. I do think that the resourses necessary to make sure this move is safe and workable, even if it causes a mass exodus from the forums, will be the same or higher than combating the problem of idiots the usual way; while wrecking (or at least displacing) one of the more interesting options online life provides people in the process. If spammers and trolls are the real reason they’re doing this it’s not the players that need to grow a pair, it’s Blizzard.
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@Klaus
I think we are operating under different definitions of harassment. Asking to friend someone on Facebook is hardly harassment. The same goes for asking someone out. Now, if you start doing it repeatedly after being refused once, then yes. But in the case of Facebook it is easy to block people.
@BennyLava
So you are essentially saying that every person has a right to live a life where annoying and unpleasant (for whatever reason) people are not present. I don’t think that’s the case, nor do I think it is at all possible altogether.
@Duoae
I am not sure how you went from a) me being indifferent to being called names by people I do not know or care about, to b) someone being OK with being crippled. Please explain how you arrived there so that we may point out the errors in your logic.
In any event, yes, some people are very thin-skinned, terrible business that. However, if you are allergic to shrimp it is your responsibility to avoid it, not my responsibility to give it up completely.
I repeat: Humanity in general has no obligation to cater to every possible sensitivity of its every member. Sure, I will not terrorize you on purpose, but if words can reduce you to a crying mess, then perhaps it is best that you avoid human interaction altogether.
@Muzman
Your (erroneous) assumption is that the Internet is a magical realm that is completely removed from real life. The truth is that it isn’t. It is a mere extension of it, just another medium for communicating with other members of society. For one reason or another reason some people have developed an idea that it is OK to act in any way they please while online, and not suffer any consequences. This idea is tremendously flawed for reasons that are quite obvious.
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This has nothing at all to do with what I wrote. In fact it carefully ignores it.
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My post was in reference to your second paragraph. Your first paragraph made very little sense, so I chose to ignore it. If you insist, however…
1) You seem to be treating the discovery of one’s name as the ultimate danger. I assure you that most harmful things that can be done to a person, can be done without knowing their name.
2) You assume that following someone is difficult. It is not. Unless you are making a point of thoroughly checking whether you are being followed (which most people of course no not do,) following you home form a store (assuming you live in a city) is the easiest thing in the world.
The point is that an “Internet stalker” is significantly less dangerous, simply by the virtue of manifesting as a bunch of characters on the screen. A real life one manifests as a physical object that can harm you physically. An Internet stalker you can block, put on ignore, ban, etc. A real life one, you would have to defend against physically.
Overall, you are vastly overestimating the dangers of non-anonymous online interactions.
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Actually, your ingame character is not, by default, linked to your forum posts from what i understand of the system, which therefore means that yes, if on the forum you call someone a noob they’ll be able to look you up in the phonebook and leave you threatening answerphone messages, however, if you don’t do that, if you post on the forums about whatever random crap enters your head and restrict your noob calling to ingame whispers there’s no real way for anyone to tie the two together.
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There are always bugs my friend: http://www.wow.com/2010/07/06/security-flaw-allows-addons-to-expose-full-real-life-names-witho/
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“It’s possible it’ll simply be a huge deterrent to posting, and maybe that’s what Blizzard want anyway – a quiet manageable place.”
This. Clearly this.
Seriously, why else would they bring in such a draconian and unprecedented rule.
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At the time of writing this the US WoW forum’s thread on this is 1498 pages long with 27515 replies, 99.9999999999999999999999% of which are against.
Are they really going to go through with this?
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If it is due to South Korean legal pressure, then the answer is yes. Blizzard would probably cut off their own faces rather than do anything to damage their potential sales in South Korea (where they are so huge the country is currently home to two Boeing 747s flying around with Jim Raynor’s face painted over their fuselages), even if it enrages their American and European fanbases.
If that is the reason, and it’s about the only one I can think of as being even half-convincing, then of course Blizzard could solve the issue by moving their Korean-language forums out of the core Blizzard website. But then Activision-Blizzard’s somewhat sinister plan to integrate every human being playing any of their games ever into the same virtual space will be thwarted.
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One thing I just realised, Blizzard’s plan actively encourages people to look trolls up. I mean that’s the deterrant isn’t it? Your real life will suffer if you troll. So this policy is effectively saying; “We can’t be bothered to moderate any more. So instead you can moderate each other, only you can’t ban accounts or posts, instead you find trolls in real life and … do things.” This is akin to the police saying “We’re not going to enforce the law anymore, we’ll just put up pictures of criminals, and you can do what you feel is necessary”.
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Kandon Arc (and many others here) appear to expect the world to protect him/her instead of protecting themselves by being sensible (don’t draw attention to yourself – rather than draw attention but hide behind a fake name??)
The sheer volume of people on the Blizz forums ensures that 99.9999% of them will see no hassle whatsoever – most people’s names will be untraceable to all intents and purposes anyway.
If you’re really called Kandon Arc you might be a BIT more traceable but then you’ve still got to upset someone enough to make them do that – so…
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No, I expect my name to remain hidden to all unless needed or until I bring it up. I shouldn’t be subject to harassment because crybabies can’t deal with rude people on the internet.
you’ve still got to upset someone enough to make them do that – so…
So… the only people who get harassed had it coming? Or are you ruling out the crazy people that will apparently track you down and stab you for beating them at a game. Or is stabbing someone in real life a suitable way to release your stress?
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Wen the other option is destruction of privacy, and scalation of game problems to real world problems, rape, discrimination, murder. I think we hare more safe with the trolls.
The solution for trolling is education, the nettiquete, that no one seems to know about these days, and strong moderation.
The people that is not horrorized by this, is clueless.
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Frankly, as someone who did end up on the recieving end of internet-harassment/stalking-shifting-to-real-world-harassment/stalking once before, urgh. It’s extremely unpleasant, and this just makes it drastically easier to accomplish, with only the vaguest of benefits.. Privacy is not something to be so lightly discarded.
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I don’t see the problem with using a real name in a forum that has become one of the flamewar theaters of the gaming community. Don’t like it? Don’t sign in. Already signed in? Delete the account. Don’t want to delete the account? Behave.
In fact, unaccountability through anonymity has been one of the banes of the internet. I’m all up for Blizzard’s decision. As you may have guessed by now.
That said, there’s no way Blizzard can force players to use their real names. They can simply create new monikers around real names. Am I really called Mario Figueiredo? Or Carlos Sousa? Or Miguel Fonseca? Unless Blizzard forces me to show my passport to them, there’s nothing stopping anyone to create a moniker. Stop whining.
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@ Mario Figueiredo
Yes, I can see how forcing a change that’ll in all likelyhood cause a decent percentage of people to abandon a forum is to the benefit of the community.
As people have taken great pains to explain already, online harassment is a pain, for many people. I see women treated differently on WoW every day, for one. This is an uncessecary change that’ll only serve to make that worse, and for what? There’s very little guarantee it’ll do anything about trolling. A quick look at any public facebook page makes that evident, and those link to pages containing far more information than a name.
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Win. Pure and simple. There can be no other word to describe this.
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For anyone who thinks there’s ‘no big deal’ to this, imagine you’re a girl who’s being stalked by a violent ex-boyfriend, who’s threatened to kill you. The one place you can go to relax and be completely anonymous if you so wish – internet gaming – now has the ability to broadcast your name. And should you require tech support, will broadcast your name.
Now, this ex-boyfriend finds her name on the forum, eventually tracks down where she lives via any number of things, and he’s found her.
It sounds far fetched, except it does occur, and will a hell of a lot more here.
I dont think the point here is to terrify everyone – the point is to not have this system at all, thus there’s nothing to be terrified of. And even beyond ‘terror,’ there’s no reason to do this. Do you want your name put on who you voted for? How about when you search for porn? How about outside your work?
I worked on a game once that had some, err, server problems at the start. The next day we’d had five death threats at the office, etc etc. The only info they had was our names in the credits, and they got a lot of people over the course of that summer. The worst was this one poor girl – some guy called and said he’d “cut her throat and fuck her in the hole” just before lunch. What I and one other person there knew was, she was an abuse victim, and that sure as hell didn’t do her any good.
So yeah, go ahead and post in your own name, but don’t you dare tell other people they’re being unreasonable for not wanting this.
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if the pair dated for any length of time, then he would probably already know her first and last name.
I am interested in your life.
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I don’t like speaking in absolutes :(
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I don’t either, actually. But I lol’d at it.
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(I meant he was looking for her name in google say, it linked to the forum post, and he tracked her from there. So yeah, I wasn’t implying they dated and he didn’t know her name, hahaha.)
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I still don’t see how a post detailing what her guild had done last week would really help a stalker track his ex-girlfriend. Any given post might contain raid times/schedules, strategies, class makeup, and so on – but an address? When she goes to the market? I dunno, man. The threat here is the listing of real names and not giving people the choice about whether or not they can hide them.
Whatever else the user posts intentionally, optionally, and unnecessarily – their address, real-life schedule, etc – is in their hands. No Blizzard decision can really impact that.
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See also this lengthy and excellent comment on Metafilter about the issue.
TL;DR: this will drive most female WoW players away, and endanger the ones who are too young to know how to deal with constant, relentless attention / abuse from socially malajusted men and boys.
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There are no girls on the internet.
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I mentioned this in the other news story, but I don’t think I got a reply.
Why not use the removal of anonymity as a punishment? I can’t figure out why it’s a terrible idea, but I know it is. Is it too cruel?
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@TDM:
It’s a barn door for abuse through poor moderation. I’ve been on forums before where if you say something that goes against the grain of the company – no matter if you’ve said it in a thoughtful and non-horrible manner – you are banned.
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This is pure greed talking–they are looking at the potential marketing/advertising tie-ins and neglecting to think of the consequences.
Note how many of the people who’ve found Golden Wrenches in TF2 have since made their profiles private. One guy had his account hacked and the guy had his wrench deleted. All over a reskin of a wrench in the world’s #1 novelty hat simulator. (I hate to think what will happen to accounts with in-game bonuses like the $20 horse skin in WoW.)
Giving black hats more information to compromise accounts and passwords seems like a horrible idea to me, but I’m not blinded by a chart with POTENTIAL MARKET written on it.
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I’m also worried about the opposite happening. I mean, congratulations, you’ve just prevented anybody with any kind of public presence completely incapable of engaging with your community without harassment.
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I don’t have a real problem with a game or other social site requiring you to use your real name — as long as that’s the case from the beginning. Most people use their real name on Facebook, for example, because Facebook has always been about real names.
That’s not the case here. There’s something very wrong with requiring WoW players who have been posting on Blizzard’s forum for years to suddenly display their real names.
All of us act differently in different places. I use Facebook (occasionally) but I don’t talk about games there. I post on a bunch of forums under a pseudonym where I talk about games all the time. I play LOTRO and don’t tell anyone my real name there. I rarely talk about games in the workplace. We all present different identities in different places. That’s something Blizzard is forcibly making more difficult.
For the people saying they don’t have to post if they don’t like it, think about what you’re saying. They might have been a part of that community for years and years. Now they’re told that if they don’t like it, they must never post there again. Can you imagine being effectively cast out of a community that’s been part of your life for that long? (I don’t play WoW myself, but I can imagine how that must feel.)
If it had been that way from the beginning, fine, people could choose. But the only choice people have now is to tell everyone their name or leave the community. That’s a horrible thing for Blizzard to do.
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It’s like dedicated servers not being in MW2, people will cry bloody murder but still line up in droves to play the shit…
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No you don’t… they have email and phone support options as well.
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Alec, why do you have a picture of a whatever that is in a bikini in a pool for a post of such serious nature?
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It is to illustrate just how exposed females will be when Blizzards brave new world will be realized. The blue skin symbolizes just how chilling it is.
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A+
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If it were just the forums that required a Real ID, I wouldn’t care that much since I almost never post on Blizzard’s forums. But giving out your email and displayed your real name is required to friend people in the game as well. I don’t care if my guildmates see my name (most already know it anyway), but I don’t want to give it to random people from the Internets that I might want to play with again just because they seem like slightly lesser asshats than the population at large. Even worse is that people on THEIR friend list can see my name. My guildmates with children will not be playing multiplayer at all because they don’t want the population at large to know the names of their kids or know that they have kids at all.
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By the way, ladies and gentlemen, while we were having this interesting discussion, Starcraft II beta test was resumed. There is also a new patch out. If you preordered the game, I believe you can now play. I think that those who didn’t preorder but were in the beta earlier (myself included) can also play. Cannot confirm this yet, since my client is still updating, but I hope to see you all there, real names or not. =)
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Confirming now. Previous beta testers can log in and play.
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I entirely agree with this article. However, one other thing worth mentioning is that Blizzard is using the excuse that you can “opt in”, and there is “ample warning” before you start posting on the forums that you will be using your real name.
They don’t seem to get that people won’t realize their mistake until they’ve made it. A girl decides to post her idea on the forums for her first time, has an open facebook page, and is suddenly stalked, or harassed, or something else entirely by some random basement dweller.
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Another small note: this entire decision is blatantly marketing based. On the european forums they recently announced that there are plans to allow “Facebook Connect” [the same thing on Starcraft II] for World of Warcraft. They want people to use it for advertising purposes, and something tells me the whole real-name thing is a part of that. Not their lame excuse that it’ll tame the forums [as if].
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imagine you’ve been cybering this totally kawaii bitch who said she’s a smoking hot sex goddess and then found out she’s actually a dude with some gross-ass name like blurt barfman and he’s a fat middle aged dude from nebraska
that’d boil my oats i tell you what
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That means you’re bisexual. Just accept it and keep cybering with that kawaii dude from nebraska.
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One thing is for certain, if someone is “cybering” instead of actually meeting people and having sex, their problems run far deeper then the whole anonymity vs. real names debate. No matter who wins it, no matter how you spin this, these people lose, plain and simple.
The Blurt Barfman character sounds intriguing though. Probably a fun guy to have a few beers with.
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So what is your point here, Alaric?
That is ok to add problems, so if some people have problems to get sex in real life, and is cybering, is ok to make his cybering more dificult? is that your point?. Also, making the posibility for a angry partner to publish that “Alan Smith is teh wrong cybering partner” is a good thing?
“Making things worse for people that already has problems is a OK thing” – Alaric Teplitsky on RockPaperShotgun.
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No matter who wins it, no matter how you spin this, these people lose, plain and simple.
Yes, of course! Why didn’t i see it before? That person who was horribly disfigured in a fire and who can’t ever get close to a partner due to the various social complications that arise from such a condition should not be allowed to have any sexual gratification!
That’s just one way of spinning it… maybe you don’t agree. As i pointed out up-thread. How are you so casually heartless and lacking in empathy?
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Come come, Alaric! I generally agreed with your posts up until now, or could at least see your point, but suddenly you’re trying to deride all those who have other than your sexual interests? And so I wonder if, in fact, you’re open minded and imaginative enough to consider the ramifications for this issue at all. After all, if someone cannot conceive of anything other than his own desires being somehow normal, then how can he conceive of the desire of another to protect their “not” normal interests or desires?
Broaden your world view; your narrowmindedness is crippling.
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@drewski and Duoae
Why are we suddenly discussing people who are burned in a fire, or have a cybering fetish, or some such? I am talking about otherwise normal people who would actually prefer to have real interactions, but are instead wasting their life on the surrogates that the Internet provides.
And no, I’m not being holier than thou. =) I too spend a lot of time online (as is evident from my many posts here) and I too have met people on the Internet. But then, if I liked them enough, I met them in real life for a real interaction, be it sex or otherwise.
Assuming (and correct me if I am wrong) that most people who engage in cybering are neither crippled, nor disfigured, nor exclusively sexually aroused by online chats – I think we have a pretty sad picture here.
@Tei
You either completely misinterpreted or purposefully turned around what I said. However, it’s ok. As Kieron said above, I put little value into things who are uttered on the Internet by a person hiding behind a handle. If you were a real person whom I knew and whose opinion I valued, it would bother me that you think and say this. However, in our case you cannot possibly expect this to matter.
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“As Kieron said above, I put little value into things who are uttered on the Internet by a person hiding behind a handle. If you were a real person whom I knew and whose opinion I valued, it would bother me that you think and say this. However, in our case you cannot possibly expect this to matter.”
There are people that need anonimity to voice his opinions, because live under a social system that will create problems to then, if these opinions are linked to his real persona. You are telling me, you ignore these voices, because you don’t personally know these people? That make the ability for people to voice his opinions in public, pointless, render communication useless. A enormeous waste, or a very usefull skil.
Theres not such thing as a “real person”. All “persons” are social construct, based on the same material: images, words, vision.. information. I am called Tei (even in real person, by friends). Thats not my real name, using my real name here would mean nothing to you. You are saying to me, that if my name where John Smith, you would put more weight on my opinion? thats a weird and flawed idea.
A cool thing about anonymous voices, is that there are very honest voices. People in public can’t voice his real opinions, because are in danger to get burned by others. You can get on the internet truths from strangers, that these strangers will never share with his family or his sex partner.
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@Tei
Whether your name is John Smith, Bronislaw Solinowski, or Agavi Lumumba is of course irrelevant for the purpose of our discussion. And yes, you are correct, the validity (or invalidity) of your expressed opinions does not change depending on whether I know you or not. However, your opinion of me is significantly less important to be right now, as opposed to if I happen to know you personally.
If you tell me that I am scum of the Earth, I will dismiss your words without as much as thinking about them twice. After all, people on the Internet are notorious for saying far worse things, and to me, at this point, you are “people on the Internet.” If, however, my sister, or my friend, or my coworker says the same to me – I will be greatly bothered by it, and will think long and hard about what caused them to have and express such an opinion.
Also, I do recognize the need for anonymity when, for instance, one is speaking out against an oppressive government or some such. But do you honestly consider Blizzard forums to be the kind of place where Iranian dissidents will find their voice?
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@ Alaric:
So, by deciding what is and isn’t acceptable (you keep saying that these people are sad for doing what they are doing) you are beign holier than thou…. you are judging these people who you are stereotyping without really even knowing and you are proclaiming that their activities are wrong and sad. That’s the exact reason why people value their anonymity – so people who think they know better are not able to judge them unfairly. Who made you the epitome of good and correct?
Maybe you can’t accept what other people here are saying because we’re anonymous people to you…. i don’t understand how you can’t understand what’s being said….
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@Duoae
I replied to your post above but forgot to click reply, so now it’s posted at the bottom of page 3. Sorry about that, I’m a cretin.
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There’s absolutely no reason why the real name has to be shown on the real forums though. You could easily do battle.net/facebook integration just by having it as an option on your battle.net account settings page.
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I’ve been on a forum that requires using your real name for years and there has never been any problems. It’s the forum of a games magazine and only the subscribers (tens of thousands of them) have access to it. The way people behave there is quite more civilized than on other forums. Sure, there are the usual retards and trolls there too but to my knowledge no one’s ever had any problems from revealing their real name. I think people form more real life friendships and relationships on there than on other forums. There was also a case where people stopped an individual from committing suicide.
Also I was in a job interview a while back and the interviewer recognized me from the forums. It was for a job at a game company and I had been posting about my hobby projects. Didn’t get the job though but it wasn’t because how I had behaved in the forums, it was because they didn’t have what I was looking for. I did get the feeling they would have hired me otherwise.
I’m cautiously in favor of what Blizzard is doing because of past my experiences with the matter but I guess there could be problems if the users number in the millions and from all around the world.
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malicious time-wasters? No way, they just showed how dangerous this whole idea is.
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!FUN FACTS:
The people you see on the streets, schools, etc.. is not all the people that exist. There are people on your city that you will never see or meet on real life. People with problems, handicaped people that rarelly exist his home.
The world is NOT how you see it, because you are seeing only a tiny part of the people problems. The real world is fucked up, looking trough a window will get you a unrealistic idea, because some people need to hide, for different reasons. A LOT of people.
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Imagine craigslist required real names…
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Gevlon figured it out. You guys just do not understand *why* blizz did it.
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/07/would-you-stop-whining-about-realid.html
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I played a female nelf, so naturally some people mistakenly thought I was a girl IRL. Never bothered to correct them, because at the time I thought it funny. To be honest, it also gave me significant benefits in the game (people seem to be a lot more generous and nice to girls). This change could potentially ruin everything should I ever return to WoW!
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All this hysteria about people being stalked/killed/whatever if someone knows their name is absurd. Most flamers are far too pathetically cowardly to ever call someone out to their face, never mind attack them in person. That’s why they give themselves stupid, embarrassing playground names in the first place. (And if you don’t want someone tracking you down by linking your WoW name to Facebook or something, use your Facebook privacy settings. That’s what they’re for.)
I’ve been writing and posting inflammatory things in print and on the internet under my own name for 20 years. Some shitty little coward wankers have even posted my address, but nobody’s said so much as a rude word to my face. Fuck, don’t you think someone would have stabbed ME at some point if the entire internet had half a testicle between it?
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Again, the risk of violence is not the major issue. You happen to be thick-skinned enough to not give a monkey’s bottom if someone sends you a rude email or phone call, Stuart. For others, it can be incredibly invasive and upsetting. Especially if it’s full of racial or sexual epithets.
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Then they should grow a pair.
More seriously, how do you see this harassment actually panning out? How does someone armed only with my name who wants to find my phone number to ring me up and say “You’re a big smelly bumface” even start? How do they even know what *country* I live in? The only way that can happen is if I’m stupid enough to let that sort of thing be known on the internet and also have provided enough evidence to distinguish myself from all the other people with the same name.
(Personally I *am* stupid enough to do that, but then I’m not some tissue-paper girl’s blouse who faints if some anonymous coward calls me a cunt, and I’m not ashamed of what I say.)
Hell, even if this move just taught some people to be a little wiser with their privacy settings it’d be a good thing.
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“The only way that can happen is if I’m stupid enough to let that sort of thing be known on the internet and also have provided enough evidence to distinguish myself from all the other people with the same name.”
I hope our schools teach childrens to not publish his real name in internet. If schools are not doing that, *WE*, our generation, is doing it wrong. People born clueless, and can be teached what to do, and what not to do. And publishing your real name on the internet is high on the NO-NO list.
Our generation has not receive any digital culture teaching, so is normal for our generation to be clueless, I know about these things, because is my job, I work on software. But, of course, I meet loot of people (clients) that have no idea about the issues at hand.
Yes, people is “stupid” enough to publish his real name on the internet. Because no one has teached him that that is a bad idea.
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I guess this is a bit of a side-note, but Stuart, you seem to be implying that a failure to track down and assault and/or murder one’s internet enemies is a sign of cowardice.
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Or laziness.
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“The only way that can happen is if I’m stupid enough to let that sort of thing be known on the internet and also have provided enough evidence to distinguish myself from all the other people with the same name. ”
Well yes, but you’re Internet-savvy. But being Internet-savvy isn’t a requirement to play on Blizzard’s games. Some people leave breadcrumb trails all around them on the Internet – that’s not because they’re “stupid”, as you put it, but because they’re less experienced with the ‘net as others might be. It doesn’t take much empathy to think that they should be punished for these lapses. This “If you’re dumb it’s your own fault” argument doesn’t wash – it’s completely lacking in empathy.
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How do they even know what *country* I live in? The only way that can happen is if I’m stupid enough to let that sort of thing be known on the internet and also have provided enough evidence to distinguish myself from all the other people with the same name.
Heh…. i guess all those companies that hold my private info that get hacked, lose their documents and sell my information don’t come into the equation then…. Good to know!
I remember a while back there were some social security numbers stolen or whatnot and they were all posted to a site on the internet for anyone to see. This sort of stuff can be gotten ahold of. Often our personal security is not only dependent on our ability to manage ourselves.
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That was in-frakking-credible.
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It hasn’t happened to me
THEREFORE
It cannot happen to anyone
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No – obviously it CAN, but it WON’T happen to anyone, because by definition anyone too scared to put their real name to what they say is a coward.
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Yup, it definitely won’t happen. Except, you know, for those times where it already has.
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What, you mean all those times from BEFORE anyone was required to use their real name?
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Yup. That was what happened when it was hard to find people. Making it easier to find people will certainly make that happen less often for some reason.
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Ah, the Leah Betts argument. Good work.
Can you provide us with links to all these numerous gaming-related murders, btw?
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@ Stuart – I really don’t understand that mindset. For starters, not everyone posting under an assumed name on the internet is a person of low moral fibre. I use this handle as a consistent online persona across many games and forums but I prefer there to be a separation between that and my real-life persona because I’ve got what, according to google, is a totally unique real name. It would take literally three seconds for somebody armed with that to look up where I work, so from where I’m sitting using an alias is the same level of caution as whacking all my Facebook privacy settings up to maximum – not paranoia, simply good common sense.
Now, you’re coming at it from the viewpoint that everyone posting under an assumed name is, by definition, too scared to actually take any responsibility for their actions and won’t venture outside their basements to do anything dangerous or whatever. And this may be partially true. However, it isn’t in my case – quite the reverse, actually; I’m perfectly happy to call somebody a slavering cockweasel and put my name on it if that’s what the situation calls for, although I do appreciate I don’t really grasp the troll mindset so I can’t say for sure what I’d do if I was one – and anyway it’s not required for these people to do these things under the aegis of their real name; all this does is require their targets to make themselves, well, targets. What’s to stop somebody from looking up somebody’s personal data using information from the Blizzard forums, making up a batch of fake email accounts, and then commencing the onslaught from there?
(Also, I’m a white heterosexual male. I’d have potential problems if I published my real name, but nothing even approaching those I’d encounter if I were a woman or a member of an ethnic/cultural/sexual minority. And that’s not a hysterical overreaction or anything; I know people who have suffered routine harassment when they’ve been unwise/unlucky enough to let slip that they happen to have breasts on the internet, so I know it does happen. Anything that increases the number of people who have to put up with that kind of behaviour is a bad thing.)
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@ white Caucasian male who is has grown balls.
“Can you provide us with links to all these numerous gaming-related murders, btw?”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7771505/Video-game-fanatic-hunts-down-and-stabs-rival-player-who-killed-character-online.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4072704.stm
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6235216.html
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Examples 1 and 2 (particularly 2) don’t specify how the killer identified and located his victim and are therefore useless in terms of proving your point.
Example 3 is two groups agreeing to meet in real life of their own free will, not someone being stalked, and is therefore wildly irrelevant to the subject under discussion.
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@ Stuart Campbell
“Examples 1 and 2 (particularly 2) don’t specify how the killer identified and located his victim and are therefore useless in terms of proving your point.”
I wasn’t making a point. You were asking for links to gaming-related murders and I provided some. Apparently you were asking in order to triumphantly go “aha, not completely applicable” so I guess you win.
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“I wasn’t making a point. You were asking for links to gaming-related murders and I provided some.”
I do apologise. I credited you with the basic intelligence to infer “that are in some passing way connected to the thing we’re talking about”, but clearly that was an over-estimate on my part. Entirely my bad, sorry.
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@ Stuart Campbell
We are talking about there being a risk of people being subjected to racism, stalking and even violence outside the game and that risk being greater if there is a way to connect an in-game persona with a real person. Knowing a persons name makes that connection easier. It is a logical argument.
Does it strike you as unfathomable that the French CS player that was stabbed in his home was located using his name? It does seem reasonable. Demanding news reports that describe exactly how stalkers find their victims is silly simply because most articles don’t go into that much detail. They are happy enough to establish that the victim was found.
Same with the chance of females being harassed increases when, you know, people find out they actually have a female name. Does that seem like a logical conclusion to you or do we have to find newspaper articles where it clearly says that a stalker knew it was a female he stalked when he found out she had a female name?
It seems that as a white male who has grown balls, you can’t empathize with those that actually worry about being subjected to racism or sexism and instead only manage to see the world from your own little smug bubble.
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You’re absolutely right. I’m just viewing the world from my snug little bubble where I’ve got no idea what it’s like to be harassed and personally abused on the internet. Sorry. Ignore everything I said.
http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/formspring.htm
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@ Stuart Campbell
Playing the victim card now, Mr “I’m not some tissue-paper girl’s blouse who faints if some anonymous coward calls me a cunt”?
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Do I sound close to breakdown?
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Smart idea: Use 1 name for an account so that people can’t make lvl 1 troll alts.
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I Agree Wholeheartedly.
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Then they should grow a pair.
Yeah. Damn 14 year old girls always whining, they should get used to being e-stalked.
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Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN?
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E-Stalker the most succesfull MMO ever. With over 500 000 000 different victims to grind. Now with its new addon: the world of warcraft community”.
Where can i make my account?
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@yutt
“Maybe Europeans don’t say insulting things to each other in person, but Americans certainly do.”
That’s one helluva broad generalization there.
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Indeed, it was meant to be. I’m American. I was simply noting it is ridiculous to claim the Internet invented direct confrontation. People kill and rape each other face-to-face, they certainly have called each other idiots for millenia without needing Blizzard’s forums.
The idea that people don’t insult each other in real life, and therefore they will less using their real names, is ludicrous.
There are thousands of online communities that operate anonymously without prevalent trolling. This has to do with good moderation and mutual respect between members, not what name is displayed next to your post.
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Well this came out of nowhere. It isn’t going to hurt those of us who keep a low profile but the change is sure going to hurt women and minorities quite a bit. This sucks because I like to play a female in MMOs and having to explain why to people will get old really quickly considering I am a heterosexual male. This makes me not want to play any Blizzard game.
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Why?
Seriously though, it’s actually quite common for men to play as female characters in games and to me it seems a little like cross dressing. Is it like trying to see the world from the better sexes point of view or something? I personally am an immersionist so i always aim for the character which looks most like me, to minimise the imaginative distance between me and the world.
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As a friend of mine put it, if I’m going to stare at someone’s ass the entire time I’m playing the game, it might as well be an ass I find attractive.
I don’t necessarily subscribe to that viewpoint, but I certainly think it is reasonable.
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I’m similar to you Sombrero Kid, but I do understand why; there are various reasons – sometimes its purely down to animations and how the armour fits the frame of female avatars.
I usually go for a character that looks like I’d imagine I would look like, being that Race/Class, but my main (Which was a Male Draenai Shaman) I faction changed to my prior mains faction (a Male Tauren Druid). My main is now a Female Troll Shaman and some how I still feel immersed in the character. I guess its just one step further; its how I’d imagine I’d be if I was a Troll Shaman and happened to be the fairer sex.
Admittedly I still make most of my characters Male.
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Basically Dawngreeter hit the nail on the head.
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I tend to go for male characters in games but I don’t really understand why it’s inherently weird to select a female one unless you’re also then pretending you are a female.
That aside, how is it any different from playing Tomb Raider, say?
Also, y’know, male belves are awful.
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Questioning why some men play female characters always seemed rather silly to me, since we gladly play dwarves, orcs, tauren, undead, etc, without actually looking like any of those. If I was locked down to only playing human males in WoW, I’d probably kill myself, or someone else, if I could track them down. :D
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The official forums are not the only possible communication vector for people wishing to discuss World of Warcraft. This seems, to me, like a sound business idea. By removing anonymity, you will remove many of the following elements : Trolls, Women afraid stalking, Players who wish to keep their hobby secret, people who just object to the lack of privacy.
This is an effort to do one thing and one thing alone, make the forums more easily moderated. A mass exodus of posters, and the ones left probably leaning away from being so aggressive, is probably going to accomplish this.
People might shout at Blizzard “YOU’RE GOING TO LOSE ALL YOUR POSTERS!” but Blizzard are just sitting there thinking “I know! Isn’t it great! We can fire half of our moderating team and make even more money!”.
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I find it hard to believe this is about moderating costs. Doubtless it is about money, but the Korean law thing and the Facebook partnership cash grab seem far more likely than a few moderator paychecks on what is really a very insignificant forum in terms of numbers.
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Haha! I like your post.
Of course, the best business decision is not always the right one. Otherwise there’d be no fallout for the oil rig disaster or people dumping toxic waste…. Bopal etc. Unfettered capitalism is completely evil from what i can see of history…. it’s not even neutral (if we take the standard Good-neutral-evil, organised-chaotic scales). It’s only when the people (via governments and lobby groups) force companies to play nice that they actually do so…. well, to some extent. If they feel that they can get away with it without being discovered they still do these things.
The right thing to do would be to make a better system. For instance:
1. One sign on, all characters show up under this alias so you always know who is posting -require a real name but only for Blizzard’s internal use.
2. Have a tiered punishment system – e.g. first minor offence a public warning along with a PM explaining what you did wrong and why not to do it again. Second minor some short ban time from the forum. Third minor, longer ban time with a short ban time from the games attached to the account. etc.
Then there’d be a separate scale for more major infractions ending in account banning meaning that you’d lose all your games permanently.
You’d also have to have a time-lapse system whereby you wouldn’t be getting punished for making two or three small mistakes or misjudgements over a period of 5 years like the yellow card amnesty in the world cup or whatever. People sometimes do overreact and that’s just part of being human.
3. Actually follow through and punish the people who are causing the problems. From what i’ve heard one of the problems Blizzard has is that the rules are universally applied or they’re too lenient.
Of course, doing that might cost them users who subscribe to the game every month….. but then, what are the people who are paying and are not assholes paying for each month? If it’s just the game then why not get rid of the forums altogether?
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I quite like the fact that Blizzard have done something socially challenging to their community. Its a very interesting social experiment, it has exposed a lot of players fears of being outed as a gamer in job interviews. I do wish games would be more culturally challenging, political even. It would be great to play a game that challenges stereotypes not propagated them. You hear reports of women hiding their gender behind a non gendered name or going out of there way not to talk on Voip voice chat. This is terrible. Suddenly thousands of gamers have become feminists over night, amazing! This all exposes a lot of the problems gamers have in public life still. Partly due to everything being so anonymous and closeted and so the basic misunderstandings about gaming culture continue. Game over
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@Chriss:
Not everyone want to be a “Freedom fighter”, and face the consequences. Maybe your only “blame” is being a women. I don’t think is enough blame to suffer the consequences… and I don’t think any ammount of politics will change males in something different, and womens on something different.
What if you are the only and one person on the world with problem XYZ, you will never get the rest of the world align with your problem, and you don’t want your whole life wasted because of XYZ. Ther are minorities, but minorities have some power, and there are people alone with his own problem, that don’t even have the help some minorities get.
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@ Chris Keegan
Suddenly thousands of people are feminists?
Hardly…. You’d be surprised how large a silent majority/minority can be. It’s not something that just happens overnight and nor is it some attempt to ingratiate themselves with said women. There are plenty of people who believe in something but don’t happen to be around to discuss it or defend against it when it occurs. This just happens to be one, very public, argument and fighting for women’s rights is just one small part of it.
The people who are still misogynist and racist don’t magically go away it’s just that their sorts of arguments are not tolerated (or even make sense) when brought into the light in this way….. there is no counter-argument for these issues that makes sense.
I think you have ‘gaming’ wrong in your head. Gamers are people just like the rest of society, it’s not because there’s anonymity in gaming circles (as if there is no anonymity in other pastimes) it’s because of deeper running problems in society and, because gaming is currently the scapegoat for society in general – which is slowly changing – you’ll see these issues brought to the fore more than they are in other, more accepted and less questioned pastimes.
How many people watch and enjoy football but never discuss the inherent sexism and misogyny perpetrated by those in the sport? Then ask how many people discuss gaming and the internet…. all the dangers of life suddenly come to the fore! We can tackle these issues and perhaps enlighten those who have paint their view of the world in more broad strokes.
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I think one the bigger problems with this is that the WoW forums are public, you don’t even have to be signed in to see them.
Let’s go on a bit of a reach here and say that this might cause for more civil discussions by those who dare put their name behind their words, a problem arises: What about those that want to stalk/harass/be assholes? They don’t have to reveal their names or post anywhere to just grab someone’s details.
It’s lovely that some people are willing to put their real life details behind their game alias but some people don’t have that privilege. Well known people, people with a public image to hold, girls, people that don’t want potential employers to find their forum posts when they check them out etc. etc.
This would be a goldmine for people that just want to grief, and frankly it’s a terrible idea for a forum as large and with such a spread population as WoW’s.
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It’s just too much to assume that using real names should not be a problem for anyone. Of course it’s perfectly within Blizzard’s right to do what they want with their game, and if their terms and conditions clearly state that they will publicise the name of anyone who creates an account then that’s their perogative. Anyone who doesn’t agree with that won’t create an account, and I suspect that will be a hell of a lot of people. Myself included.
In my case I chose not to link aspects of my private life to the public domain. If RPS decided to publish the real names of everyone on its comments thread without the option to opt out, I would never post another comment here again. In fact I’d probably stop visiting the site altogether, because I wouldn’t wish to support such thinking. If Blizzard implemented ReadID without the ability to opt out as part of simply playing their game I would certainly stop buying Blizzard games because my right to privacy (indeed, my need for privacy) is more important than some video game. If you disagree with me that’s fine, I disagree with you too.
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Re.The blizzard guy who got tracked down using his name. I had a similar thing happen to me once, and it’s very scary.
A game I worked on got released with a bad bug that somehow had got missed, despite extensive testing. I went on the game’s forum to talk to users about the problem, enlist their help to diagnose it and get it fixed. I used my full name, as I always did when supporting customers.
Some of the users were getting really annoyed about it, and decided to track me down. They managed to find that there were just two people with my name in the area where I lived and then started to narrow down my address. Luckily they stopped before it got out of hand.
So though my experience was nowhere near as bad as the Blizzard guy, I know a little of what he went through. That’s one of the reasons I don’t have a facebook or twitter account.
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Wait, wait…
I’m sorry, I’m having a hard time accepting this. It’s not that I don’t believe you, because I do, it’s just that sometimes the inherent lack of mental health that the average (especially ‘normal people’) human displays throws me for a loop.
So, let me see if I understand this…
You found a bug in the game you helped develop, you accepted that this was a serious problem and showed humility by posting on your forums with your real name asking for help in understanding the true nature of the bug so that it could be fixed as quickly as possible.
So… people got angry with you giving a humane response, and clearly showing that you cared about your game and community, that you wanted to treat them with the respect and dignity that they deserved?
…
You know, what I get from that is that they felt rage at the bug. A blind, red hatred. One that they couldn’t justify after you did that, which made them even more angry because it reflected worse upon them than it did on you, they were shamed, it was a sleight to their pride, and this left them frothing and furious.
I’m seriously beginning to worry about the state of mental health of humanity as a whole. After coming from a comments thread where people thought that someone who enjoyed a cute animated feature was out to rape their children, I come here and I see this.
I’m getting to the point where I’m beginning to think that this is spiralling out of control, and that – as a race – the majority would be better if counsellors were assigned to children at birth, and provided them with constant counselling through their childhood, just to try and uphold their mental health, because really, it’s becoming horribly obvious that whilst physical health is on the rise, mental health across the board is plummeting.
I really feel for you, and I think you did the right thing. It’s horrible to hear that someone did that, despite you doing the right thing.
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Wulf, Thanks for your kind words. I understand your almost disbelief. I’d have a hard time believing it myself if it happened to someone else.
I would say though than in comparison the PC game community I helped grow for other games I’d worked on was always incredibly polite, helpful and a great group of people, so that sort of balanced it out.
So again, I’m very sorry for that Blizzard guy’s predicament, but I disagree with the real names policy myself, having found out the hard way how easy it is to track someone’s personal details down online if you know their real name.
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@Duoae
I largely agree with you.
My “Suddenly thousands of gamers have become feminists over night, amazing!” was ment as a sarcastic comment maybe i could have phrased it better.
Also i don’t like this “hide your identity” attitude it wont solve anything or help to enlighten anyone. This Stalke/harrass argument is over blown. Its like saying Alec Meer or Jim Rossignol should not write this blog in public cos they might get stalked or targeted for fraud etc. Its a little irrational.
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They write with their full name because they have protected themselves from harm. They do write for national publications too.
I do not fear for myself. I fear for my beautiful wife, who doesn’t use the intenet much, and has a lonely walk home in a dangerous city at night. Unfortunatley, we are linked by name, and anyone who finds me would not find it too difficult to find her.
Maybe this information will raise the chance of something bad happening by 0.01%, but I still do not want that increase. I want to keep my family safe.
Deny it all you want, but there are a lot of psychos out there.
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@ Chris Keegan:
I don’t think that the danger of the possibility of stalking/rape or harassment is overblown. No one has said (as far as i’ve seen) that it’s going to happen all the time or to everyone. The point is that reasonable protection needs to be in place to discourage the ease with which that can happen. Posting someone’s name is a step in the opposite direction from this. It’s not irrational – it’s careful. I suppose you’d rather not have airbags in your car because the chances of you crashing are pretty small compared to how many cars are on the road? Same thing with those issues mentioned above…. they’re common enough in society to make people worried about them otherwise you wouldn’t need to advice people not to walk home at night in the dark, alone and whatnot.
I don’t think that “exposing everyone” would help anything or anyone either. I’ve yet to see an argument that shows that knowing people’s names actually encourages good behaviour and civility beyond a person’s own predisposition to think less of people who use a pseudonym. Think of all the authors through time that have used pen names to get around being judged not on the quality of their work but the fact that they were women or foreign-sounding.
Giving people the option is the medium point and that’s the situation that we currently have. Why is that so odious to people that they don’t understand that not everyone wants to be more exposed in an environment where they have no means of protecting themselves or their dependants?
Different people take different risks in life… saying that everyone should take the same risks just because Jim and Alec don’t suffer major consequences doesn’t follow any logic. Wasn’t it Jill Dando who was murdered by some crazy stalker or something? Being in the spotlight automatically puts you in the firing line whether you want it or not. Most people who get into showbiz and journalism know that…. but most people in society don’t want to be and aren’t in that situation
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Deny it all you want, but there are a lot of psychos out there.
Actually, there aren’t. Violent crime is falling, and has been since, pretty much, records began. We live in a kinder gentler society (err, in Britain anyway).
There’s a lot more hype surrounding the violence that does exists though (and I’d concur that a lot of people on t’internet certainly *act* like psychos. Maybe doing away with anonymity except where its really necessary would do something to allieviate that issue).
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I love the Grow-A-Pair Gang. After their sterling work in the “Hey baby” threads, it’s great to see them putting in an appearance here, too.
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Yep.
The RPS community must make the hivemind cry itself to sleep at night.
Latest example: Privacy isn’t a real man’s concern, grow a pair!
After a while, you learn to just stop taking the vast majority of RPS readers seriously, a realisation that brings much happiness.
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The price of popularity takes its toll on RPS I guess.
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The worst part is that reading all this crap is actually eroding my love for games themselves. I really should just stop reading comment section and focus on the articles.
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@Ian
I wonder if I’m being misinterpreted, here. Wouldn’t be the first time, and it’s this sort of thing that can lead to people getting a little bit angry, as you seem to be, which is precisely my point.
“[...] but all this “I need privacy because I’m not a sheep in thrall to the MAN and I have opinions of my very own!” just smacks of I’m A Unique Snowflake nonsense and does your argument no favours.”
That’s not what I said. What I said was that sometimes I have opinions which are controversial and rub people the wrong way, and anyone with an ounce of creativity is going to have the same problem. Having at least an ounce of creativity doesn’t make a person unique, I never said that, it just makes a person more creatively minded.
There are a lot of creative people out there, a lot of them, and amongst them I’m not really special. So that wasn’t my point either. This just seems to be a corner you’re painting me into. The point was, to stress it again, that anyone who is creative is going to have controversial viewpoints.
Therefore, anyone who is a creative person is thus going to have a vested interest in privacy, lest a psycho who finds their open-mindedness offensive tracks them down and does horrible things to their loved ones, which certainly could happen.
What I’m saying is that a lack of privacy in today’s world (which is a very dangerous place) is an affront to allowing people to be individuals, do you see where I’m coming from, here? If people are afraid to be individual and have their controversial viewpoints, then what happens is that you have a forum which is staffed by those who are afraid to share their opinions (and thus, don’t), those who don’t have an opinion, and the psycho-nutjob trolls who think they could handle someone stalking them RL.
So really, I think I’ve been hugely misinterpreted here, as I wasn’t talking from a personal perspective, but from the perspective that any creative person would find themselves in.
“Unless of course your PLAN was to “win” the debate by calling the people on the flipside mindless dullards, in which case… well carry on.”
That wasn’t the point either and you’re just brushing over my argument by trying to pin that on me as my intent, which it never was. This becomes clear with your use of dullards, as the misinterpretation there is clear. The only word I used was ‘fools’, which I used to express how disenfranchised I am with how ignorant people can be. Ignorance is a problem, and I think those that support a lack of privacy are – to a degree – ignorant.
They see a lack of privacy as a golden, heavenly thing where everyone hands around tea and crumpets, and people are excellent to each other. This is simply a lack of experience, since Facebook proves that the opposite is true, and that the removal of anonymity is damaging.
What you have to remember is that throughout the history of our race, to present day, we have shown that only very few of our number care about ethics, and therefore, when given the notion of people policing themselves, you open the door to all sorts of corruption. Such as people tracking down those they’ve simply disagreed with online and sending them nasty threat letters, and making their lives hell.
Here’s to hoping you understand better now, or maybe I’ve just made you angry… in which case I’m glad that I’m anonymous here, because there’s no telling what an easy-to-anger person might do when presented with a controversial opinion, which is, again, entirely the point. :p
Q.E.D.
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Whoops! That was at Ian, further down! I guess I scrolled up too far.
I blame it on the bug I currently have, since I’ve not made a mistake like that before.
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Are all the people complaining not on Facebook or Myspace, or anything else? I don’t really see what the problem is tbh. If someone knows my name, then they can get more information out of those sites than by my name appearing on a Blizzard Forum.
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Well, first, not everyone is on facebook or myspace. Second, those sites have privacy settings, as unreliable as they are. Third, realID gives people link needed to connect your social life to your gaming life, which you might not want. WoW has number of systems designed to foster hostility, and now it has chance to spill into your online social life or even real life.
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I have never and never will put my real name on Facebook.
I created a Facebook account once but that was only to get a swanky plane for Altitude, and I used obviously fake details to do so, after which the account fell into obscurity and was never used (since it’s only purpose was to get me a swanky plane in Altitude).
Slashdot over the course of a few months has made me far too paranoid to even consider touching Facebook with a barge pole.
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Well, in that case, much like Facebook, don’t use the Blizzard forums? Job done…
I can understand Blizzard wanting to A) get rid of twats off their forums and B) Link WoW to facebook, the most used social networking site in the world.
Makes good business sense tbh.
If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. I’m sure for every person they annoy (Who have some valid arguements btw, but you can’t have social networking AND full privacy), about 10 casual gamers who want to play WoW with their friends will think the link up is awesome.
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Blizzard forums are/were part of the gaming service, not social networking service. Not to mention they are a paid service. So not people have to pay, in part, for something they can’t use.
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@Gothnak
“Privacy isn’t a real man’s concern, grow a pair!” Q.E.D.
I often have controversial opinions, the kind of opinions that tend to make madmen froth at the mouth, and for that very reason I value my privacy. I don’t care so much about what happens to me, but I have a very lovely little dog, and I wouldn’t put it past some sick bastard who couldn’t handle my open-mindedness to do something nasty to my dog just to get at me.
I suppose that if I were an average, normal person – the kind of person who was terrified to say something that didn’t exactly match what everyone else was saying – with no ambitions, dreams, or individuality, then I’d have no problems with my details being handed out. As it stands, the Internet is one forum where I can air my individuality without worrying about someone killing my dog.
You have to understand that something I might say, whilst being completely rational, might rub some kind of extremist the wrong way, sometimes it’s very easy to anger people regardless of how diplomatic you are. What I’m getting at is that those who don’t recognise the value of privacy on the Internet are either fools or boring creatures completely lacking in imagination, individuality, drive, and passion.
Sure, a lot of people are going to stop using a service like that, but it’ll lose so much in the trade-off. You’ll lose some of the trolls (a good thing), but you’ll also lose all the creative people who’re scared of those psychos. Point being: You won’t lose all the trolls because some will be convinced that they’re ‘ard enuff (so to speak) to deal with any problems that come their way, and those people will scare off the imaginative, creative people that give any forum its worth.
All that will be left is a contingent of trolls and boring people who’ll be yes-men for the trolls.
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@ Wulf: For what it’s worth I think your point is perfectly reasonable, but all this “I need privacy because I’m not a sheep in thrall to the MAN and I have opinions of my very own!” just smacks of I’m A Unique Snowflake nonsense and does your argument no favours.
Unless of course your PLAN was to “win” the debate by calling the people on the flipside mindless dullards, in which case… well carry on.
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Haha, now to post this in the right place. You can delete the previous instance if you like, RPS types.
@Ian
I wonder if I’m being misinterpreted, here. Wouldn’t be the first time, and it’s this sort of thing that can lead to people getting a little bit angry, as you seem to be, which is precisely my point.
“[...] but all this “I need privacy because I’m not a sheep in thrall to the MAN and I have opinions of my very own!” just smacks of I’m A Unique Snowflake nonsense and does your argument no favours.”
That’s not what I said. What I said was that sometimes I have opinions which are controversial and rub people the wrong way, and anyone with an ounce of creativity is going to have the same problem. Having at least an ounce of creativity doesn’t make a person unique, I never said that, it just makes a person more creatively minded.
There are a lot of creative people out there, a lot of them, and amongst them I’m not really special. So that wasn’t my point either. This just seems to be a corner you’re painting me into. The point was, to stress it again, that anyone who is creative is going to have controversial viewpoints.
Therefore, anyone who is a creative person is thus going to have a vested interest in privacy, lest a psycho who finds their open-mindedness offensive tracks them down and does horrible things to their loved ones, which certainly could happen.
What I’m saying is that a lack of privacy in today’s world (which is a very dangerous place) is an affront to allowing people to be individuals, do you see where I’m coming from, here? If people are afraid to be individual and have their controversial viewpoints, then what happens is that you have a forum which is staffed by those who are afraid to share their opinions (and thus, don’t), those who don’t have an opinion, and the psycho-nutjob trolls who think they could handle someone stalking them RL.
So really, I think I’ve been hugely misinterpreted here, as I wasn’t talking from a personal perspective, but from the perspective that any creative person would find themselves in.
“Unless of course your PLAN was to “win” the debate by calling the people on the flipside mindless dullards, in which case… well carry on.”
That wasn’t the point either and you’re just brushing over my argument by trying to pin that on me as my intent, which it never was. This becomes clear with your use of dullards, as the misinterpretation there is clear. The only word I used was ‘fools’, which I used to express how disenfranchised I am with how ignorant people can be. Ignorance is a problem, and I think those that support a lack of privacy are – to a degree – ignorant.
They see a lack of privacy as a golden, heavenly thing where everyone hands around tea and crumpets, and people are excellent to each other. This is simply a lack of experience, since Facebook proves that the opposite is true, and that the removal of anonymity is damaging.
What you have to remember is that throughout the history of our race, to present day, we have shown that only very few of our number care about ethics, and therefore, when given the notion of people policing themselves, you open the door to all sorts of corruption. Such as people tracking down those they’ve simply disagreed with online and sending them nasty threat letters, and making their lives hell.
Here’s to hoping you understand better now, or maybe I’ve just made you angry… in which case I’m glad that I’m anonymous here, because there’s no telling what an easy-to-anger person might do when presented with a controversial opinion, which is, again, entirely the point. :p
Q.E.D.
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@ Wulf: Pointing out that (possibly/probably due to my own misinterpretation) you may have been coming across as looking down your nose at your average web-dweller doesn’t mean I was ANGRY about it. Also, “you’re just brushing over my argument”. No I wasn’t. In fact, I made it quite clear that I thought you’d made a number of reasonable points. I made that clear at the start of my reply so that you didn’t get the impression that my slightly off-topic thought was an attempt to disagree with you in a throwaway fashion. That obviously didn’t work, but heyho.
I can see the point of the “if you don’t like it don’t use it” crowd, and I do tend to think that if there’s something you wouldn’t say without the cover of anonymity then you probably wouldn’t say it to somebody face-to-face. And if you wouldn’t say it to somebody face-to-face then there’s probably a good reason for that.
The complaints about the forums is more of an issue than RealID in-game here if the forums are the primary way to get tech support from Blizzard. If it’s just a “well my sub helps pay for the forum” argument then that’s up to the individual to decide whether not using the forum puts the ‘value’ of the game below what they’re willing to pay for monthly.
I’m 100% of people being able to maintain whatever level of privacy suits them, but in this case there’s not a single thing that Blizzard are forcing people into. And if enough people don’t like it then they should drop their subscription if it shows no sign of changing rather than complaining that they can’t use the forum or the Real ID system but giving Blizzard their money anyway.
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I am a pretty cantakerous old git who often slags people off with this monikor (No, i’m not a goth, it’s a long story) online all over the place and i’m sure you can find out my real name from it. Never have i had anyone try and contact me through any medium other than the one i have slagged them off. If it helps, i also wind people up to their face too, and am not particularly worried about anyone following me home or keying my car. I think this is because i healthy respect for most people into the world, and think if i piss someone off so much that they want to come and kill me, having an online pseudonym as a safety net (Which i expect most people re-use on non-Blizzard forums) isn’t going to stop them if they are actually insane.
However, anyone still playing WoW these days is an idiot, there are so many better things to be doing right now.
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July 8, 2010 at 4:14 pm, Gothnak says:
“I am a pretty cantakerous old git who often slags people off with this monikor (No, i’m not a goth, it’s a long story) online all over the place and i’m sure you can find out my real name from it. Never have i had anyone try and contact me through any medium other than the one i have slagged them off.”
Fine, that’s you and there are others like you, but you do not make up the world. There are others who actually have prpblems and this has been covered countless times in these threads and I really don’t think you have missed it.
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I tried to join my local squash club the other day under my gaming name of “RacketKiller”, but they wanted my full name to add to their members list and wanted to display it on the competition ladder in the sports centre! I mean, what if I tell someone to f*ck off during a match and they come to find me? I can’t see that squash club lasting for long if they expect that type of personal detail from everyone. I like to keep my personal and private life separate.
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This is beyond stupid, and you know it. So you’ve only posted this to annoy people, making you anonymous troll.
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@CraigT
9.9 Startling revelation, truly.
I like how you mix up a sport with a forum that’s open to debate.
Troll or YouTube-criteria idiocy? I can’t decide!
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I thought it was kind of funny.
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An online identity, separate from your real life identity, is very very important to a lot of people. It allows them to express themselves positively in ways that they couldn’t possibly do with their real name attached to it. A lot of people, for one reason or another, aren’t comfortable with their real-life identity, don’t want the residents and lurkers of one of the most viewed forums of the world to know who they are, and wouldn’t otherwise be the people they are online without it. And you can’t just say “grow up” to these people, because like I said before, you’re viewing it from an entirely different view-point, formed by having an entirely different background. Please, please, please, when thinking about these changes, apply ample amounts of empathy, otherwise your privileged position isn’t going to mean anything.
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Thanks for the slightly terrifying reminder on how easy all this is with a little effort, Lilliputking. Things you know but don’t really realise..
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I got into trouble once on a forum for saying something that seemed perfectly innocent to me, but loads of people took offence, and rated me down and were really angry with me. I tried to explain what I meant, that I hadnt put it the right way. But yeah that would have been terrifying if I had my real name.
I know for a fact I wouldnt not post on any forums at all if I had to use my real name, I know how crazy people are. But its not even crazy people its normal people whom see something wrong in the arrangement of letters that you’ve put. The trouble is they read those arrangement of letters in a completely different way to what you’ve meant them to mean.
One of the great things about the internet is its anonymity. Anyone can post anything and not get judged on how the look what sex or race they are or the hundreds of other things people judge upon mostly not even realising that they do, resulting in the usual dismissing, condescending or insulting.
On the internet they have to judge the point not the person.
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The ‘grow a pair’ crowd are so unbelievable far off the mark that it’s untrue. To suggest, just because you find something acceptable, means that others HAVE to is pathetic, juvenile and shows a serious lack of understanding about the real world.
I don’t think that this will automatically lead to lots of murders etc etc. But, it is undeniable (by anyone with half a brain) that it will allow those who are already of the ‘trolling/griefing/stalking’ disposition, to go further. This of course can be mitigated and there are channels for dealing with this sort of thing, but it doesn’t make the initial incidents any less harrowing.
My main concern, which was touched upon by someone else further up the thread (apologies i can’t remember who) was to do with ‘the children’ (que hysterical wail).
Underage people are going to end up, posting a lot of things that they will wish they hadn’t in 5-10 years time. This is assuming that their names are disassociated from their parents (or whoever is paying the bill). Either way, the potential for off-the cuff remarks to be made by juvenials (who perhaps haven’t learnt empathy or respect for all others) will be there for anyone to dredge up in say, 10 years time.
Dispute at work? oh yeah, well he called someone a {insert racist/sexist slurr here} on the net once- that totally proves he has form for {insert offense here}.
The risks i’m afraid outweigh the benfits. I for one would NEVER let my child play any game that requires them to use their real name, at least until they understand the consequences fully.
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incidentally the reason i’d class facebook etc as a different kettle of piscene’s is due to the privacy controlls.
obviously care still needs to be taken- but you are less likely to be incensed by someone on facebook than in a game.
I serisouly think schools should start teaching about internet safety (wrt comments being there FOREVER).
Alec/Kieron – surely that’s worth an article?
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I’m not sure schools or the people who teach in them understand privacy very well. My niece’s school implemented a fingerprint scanning system to replace their lunch cards.
They have no data plan in place and when my aunt asked what they were going to do to secure the information and what would happen if the police asked the school for access to it in the event of a crime or whatever they said it was no big deal!
Great let’s all be considered guilty before being proven innocent! I’m off to the police station to get myself chipped right now! :D
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@Duoae
No, no, no. I have nothing to say on what’s “acceptable.” I accept it just fine that some people do that. Moreover I believe they have every right to do so. They aren’t hurting anyone but themselves, so more power to them. If someone was to outlaw this behavior I would speak vehemently against that.
As to judging… yes I do judge. And so do you. And all other sapient life forms. There is no such thing as an ability to think without forming opinions. You see me arguing against what you believe to be the right thing, and you judge me to be stupid, or evil, or misguided. There is no avoiding that.
The important thing is, even though we disagree and may even have unflattering opinions of each other, we still act like civilized people. That, I believe, is the best possible result we can hope for.
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I think the difference is that i wouldn’t say that someone was sad for doing something they chose to do. I do judge and i am very aware of that – i’m a very judgemental character – but i always try and remove my personal bias and preferences from what i say about the people i talk about. This is waived in certain circumstances (such as illegal or truly distasteful activities like murder or stealing).
The important thing is, even though we disagree and may even have unflattering opinions of each other, we still act like civilized people. That, I believe, is the best possible result we can hope for.
I have to agree with this wholeheartedly. Sometimes the very act of discussion, though not always painless, can result in personal change despite the participants leaving apparently unchanged and that’s why it’s important that people can have intelligent discourse. I’ve always found that the internet (or email) has allowed me to engage in conversations for much longer and much more deeply than i would in real life having walked away in disgust. Sometimes you just need 5 minutes space to clear your head and on the internet you can take those 5 minutes and it doesn’t affect the conversation.
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I think requiring real names is fine on the Blizzard forums, as long as they don’t retroactively change all the previous postings to show real names.
Let me first say that I don’t use Facebook, Twitter, MySpace or any social networking site other than YouTube. Which I only registered on so I could have it remember my favorites. Also, the YouTube page doesn’t show my real name anywhere.
I place a great deal of value on my privacy, especially when it comes to the Internet. This is why I choose not to use these services, despite constant nagging from my friends who want me to use them.
As long as people know in advance that their real name is going to be displayed, they have the option not to post on the Blizzard forums. I’d wager that a great many people will discontinue use of the forums. But so what? There’s still going to be plenty of people posting up the latest rogue talent build and their favorite terran build order. Maybe it’ll bring a little more civility if people don’t have anonymity to hide behind.
I’m surprised there is so much outcry over this controversial subject. I’d guess many of the people who are against this decision will go update their Facebook status after posting here. Where’s the outcry there? Personally I think sites like Facebook and Twitter are doing far more damage to online privacy than Blizzard ever could.
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This is probably going to get lost in these reams of comments but…
This is going to go down like the Left For Dead 2 boycott, the whining about Modern Warfare 2 being dumbed down, draconian DRM, etc.
Lots of whining and bitching and acting like petulant children and then all the little gamers will buy the games in record numbers anyway.
Gamers are like that. Just offer the next few crack rocks, no matter how impure and gamers will line up around the block overnight to buy it.
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Not all, thanks much for the broad generalisations.
I haven’t touched a Ubisoft Uplay game, I didn’t buy Modern Warfare 2, and I pretty much stick by the things I say. Your words might be true of some gamers, but not all gamers, least so the more interesting ones.
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@Wulf:
C’mon, Wulf, you don’t need to feel included when someone makes one of these broad generalizations, unless the behavior stated describes you, and as you say, that’s not the case here. I usually agree with your opinions and remarks, but I’m pretty sure I recall you saying something akin to Bob’s Lawn Service‘s words (including the crack/heroine simile) in one of the Ubi-DRM threads some months ago. And you were as right then as Bob is right now. Of course there are some people/gamers with integrity and principles, but the vast majority will just bent over when the time comes.
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Are you a, self-proclaimed, more interesting gamer now, Wulf?
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it’s true though sid meier is my crack dealer (metaphorically speaking. my real crack dealer is a nice fellow named boris)
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Here’s a not-so-entertaining thought: I’m a werewolf fan. However, I’m friendly with furry types as they seem like decent people to me.
I’ve sometimes paraded as a furry in order to help them deal with the anti-furry groups out there, groups of sociopaths just looking for an excuse to hate on something. As an open-minded and ethical person, I can’t abide by that nonsense, so I tend to stick up for them. To be honest, the furry types I’ve met have shown a greater degree of mental health than those who’d mock them.
I say those anti-furry types are mentally unbalanced because they can get very, very angry to a rather unhealthy degree. And it might (or may not, if you’ve met them) surprise you to know that I’ve received a number of death threats from them, because they’re just really not at all right in the head.
Considering what I’ve just said… could you imagine the horrors that would be unleashed upon me if they could easily find my RL details?
Yeeeeeeahno. :/
The point is is that any person who exists outside of the societal norms of those nutjobs is going to be afraid to post, for the same reason.
Congratulations, Blizzard. You’re not only going to get rid of some of your trolls, but also every person who’s even mildly abnormal (which any person with an ounce of creativity and imagination is), too.
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@Funky, in case the #reply thing doesn’t work out. Bad luck with it.
Here’s the huge issue with your statement: “anecdotal evidence to back up my position.” You can’t use purely anecdotal evidence to back up your position, because that experience was only yours. You cannot extrapolate, as you said, that it will be the experience of everyone else – because you are not everyone else. Are you a female? Do you have a non-white name? Are you an fifteen year old? A thirty year old? Or maybe sixty-five? Unless you can say yes to all of these things, and say yes to whatever other variable of humanity you can think of, then YOUR experience in anything will /not/ be the same as MY experience, or that of anyone else, in any given situation.
To actually address what you said: that is, incidentally, more or less the same case with me. But here’s the thing: I’ve had just as many hostile encounters on Facebook and in the academic world as I have online – and they knew my name. If anything, I am significantly more antagonistic to people that make stupid academic statements (both in university and on Facebook) than I am in Warcraft. I might know their name, but in many ways, they are still ePeople. I’ve been fortunate enough to have never been stalked/targeted/etc (white male privilege, what?!), but I’m not sure that would be the case were I not a white male.
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d4: Thanks for the response. Of course I don’t have any more than my own experience to reason from (not that it ever stopped Satre) – but given the lack of extant reading material, its the only place I can start.
Agree fully that my experience is not yours etc. but I think a more important/interesting point is this: there seems a concensus that there’s lots of bad behaviour on t’internets (the whole anti- argument is predecated on this) – I’m somewhat concerned that people seem very accepting of this as the status quo, I’m in favour of the “true-naming” (in as much as I am in favour of it) as a lever to attempt to improve behaviour more than anything else. The doomsday version of the pro-status quo position seems, to me, to be “if we – teh interwebs – don’t clean up our act then they will”…
…somewhat OTT example warning:
Imagine the blowback if the brains-trust at 4chan – or whoever – went after, for example, Samantha Cameron…
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“One might and that’s too much” is wrong, should be “too many”.
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I actually have this theory that it’s Blizzard complying to everything Activision tell them just so they can show them how bad of an idea it really is.
Seriously, Facebook like Battle.net? Real names on the Blizzard forums? Does these things sound like Blizzard? When you think about it, everyone should know what kind of a disaster these things will be, and it’s very likely that it’s not Blizzard making these decisions.
Not to mention that there’s no way for them to confirm that the name is real. They can’t legally use your billing information to check the name.
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fucking blizzard.. I rarely even use my legal name IRL.. I have a pen name for my writing, that I use generally.. my legal name is reserved for legal documents and what not… video games do NOT fall under legal documents fuckheads!
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They’ve walked this back, at least for now: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816839821&sid=1&pageNo=1
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Great news!
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