Sunday Platform Envy

By Alec Meer on July 25th, 2010 at 1:04 pm.

I would like these electronic ‘home console’ videogames to be converted for the IBM-compatible personal computer system, please. They will be treated with kindness, respect and mild euphoria.

Limbo:

Can’t hear enough good things about it. Common consensus is that the trial and error nature doesn’t harm the mood, tale, and dream-like aesthetic one bit.

Joe Danger:

VIDEOGAMES VIDEOGAMES VIDEOGAMES VIDEOGAMES. Also, the Hello Games guys seem super-clued-in, in terms of game design, self-marketing and preventing bigger boys from crushing their spirit.

Journey:

A game about exploring. Four words that will always catch my interest, instantly.

That it’s created by Cloud’s Jenova Chen only pushes up the Yes Please factor. Not out for a while and there’s no video, alas. Here are some pictures instead, and then you should definitely read Chris Donlan’s preview over on Eurogamer.

We got Braid eventually. It’s not impossible that these esoteric delights might also trickle down to our hallowed omni-box eventually. Please?

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121 Comments »

  1. pupsikaso says:

    I agree. I’m surprised to see such great indie titles come out exclusively on consoles. I wouldn’t think there is a bigger market for them on the consoles than on the PC =/

    • TotalBiscuit says:

      XBLA is an extremely good platform for impulse games and XBLA games sell by the truckload. There’s also far less piracy, it is of no surprise at all.

    • TotalBiscuit says:

      BUYS, IMPULSE BUYS YOU APE

    • Arthur Barnhouse says:

      But the games that come out for XBLA are all kind of from the same mold. Last year it was Braid and Trials HD and this year it’s Limbo and Joe Danger. You would never see a game like the Path come out for XBLA.

    • TotalBiscuit says:

      Yes but The Path is a piece of pretentious creepy crap that isn’t even a game. XBLA is full of actual games and there’s plenty of variety there. There’s about 300 games on there at the moment and plenty of actual variety. XBLA is a nice low-risk, fairly piracy-free method of getting a game out there, it’s not surprising at all that developers are gravitating towards a successful platform that’s easy to develop for.

      Times like this I’m glad I don’t have a platform bias.

  2. Jim Rossignol says:

    Limbo is extraordinarily pretty, but it nevertheless made me remember why I end up hating platform games.

    • RobF says:

      Thankfully, not all platform games are Limbo.

      I wish Limbo wasn’t Limbo :(

    • Shazbut says:

      Limbo Limbo Limbo

    • Perjoss says:

      I thought it was very cool they decided to not have any music, makes it more atmospheric and suits Limbo very well.

    • Navagon says:

      Really? Because the above video of it looks quite good to me.

    • Lewis says:

      I loved Limbo more than I’ve loved any game since — ooh — let’s say Portal.

    • Metal_circus says:

      Jim Rossignol, what the hell are you jabberin’, fool? Limbo is a very, very beautiful game. A PC release would be very lovely though.

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      Not denying it is beautiful. Just saying it shares flaws with other platformers. (And some serious bugs, actually. I fell through the scenery a few times.)

    • Bowlby says:

      Not sure what your issue is with the game’s platforming. I’m just guessing here, but is it to do with the trial-and-error gameplay? If so, that’s not a problem to do with platformers; it’s more of a problem with that whole aforementioned ethos. It’s more Another World than Super Mario Bros., if you get my meaning.

      Anyway, I’m digging the game. I’m liking it in the way that it feels very nostalgic to me, reminding me of games like Another World and Flashback, but I couldn’t possibly describe it as anything innovative or new. I think it’s a good demonstration of how less can be more when creating an atmosphere for your game, and I’m glad that it exists and is being promoted like this, but it hasn’t rocked my world or anything.

      Oh, and yes, it would be completely appropriate for the PC platform, in terms of both the audience it attracts and control scheme used. The only real reason I imagine they didn’t was because Microsoft paid them for exclusivity. Who knows, though.

    • Kyle says:

      Though I don’t disagree about the gameplay, my main complaint right now is the tone. I haven’t gotten all the way through yet, so I’m not going to say this is my final judgement, but I just can’t figure out what all the melancholy is for. It’s misery porn in platform format. It builds a mood effectively, but it doesn’t really seem to know what to do with it once its got it.

  3. Miles of the Machination says:

    According to my friend, Limbo is quote unquote very good. Let’s just hope it gets the PC treatment.

  4. deanimate says:

    Fully agree about Limbo. It looks so atmospheric and such a change from most other games.
    I’ll probably have to find someone who owns a 360 if I’m ever to play it alas :(

  5. jon_hill987 says:

    I was just getting over my disappointment of a lack of Super Street Fighter IV on PC (despite SFIV selling quite well I understand) when I dicovered that “Street Fighter X Tekken” is going to be a console exclusive as well. Those are the two best fighting games there are, combined. :(

    It makes no sense to not be releasing on PC as well.

    • HermitUK says:

      Joe Danger looks awesome. Had been planning on waiting for the PC release, but I may have to pick up the PS3 version as well. Also means I can put in some sneaky practice.

      Really enjoyed Limbo. The gameplay may be trial and error, but it is trial and error done right, at any rate. Checkpoints are very liberally spread, and restarting is pretty much instant. Enjoyed the puzzles a lot, too. None of the puzzle mechanics ever outstayed their welcome – Usually one or two big puzzles with one mechanic and then a new element would turn up.

      I sort of get Jim’s point about the platforming though. It’s that slightly floaty physics platforming, where you’re never 100% certain you’ll make a long jump until you try. Nothing against Limbo specifically here, mind, I just miss the pixel perfect platforming of old :p

  6. Miles of the Machination says:

    Also, this Journey has gotten me incredibly excited. If there is one thing I love in a game, and one thing I’d love to see more of is well thought out exploration.

  7. Ricc says:

    Limbo! I want it so much! :(

    I can see how a platform like XBLA is attractive to Indies. They get built-in marketing and exposure to a lot of people, while still being able to stay true to their vision. Steam does that too, though. Pretty please?

  8. IAMJETHRO says:

    Alec, are you aware about that Myst Online free-reboot? It’s a MMO about exploring, which is even MORE exciting.

  9. Tei says:

    My problem with most console games, is that I am easy to hype, but wen I play these games on a real console, I get **destroyed**. Games like Uncharted 1 are pure garbage.

  10. Dean says:

    Deathspank too. Played some last night, is quite fun. Apparently it is on the way at some point though.

  11. Eight Rooks says:

    I don’t see anything from ThatGameCompany making the jump. I’d be astonished if Sony didn’t announce they’ve bought them up as a wholly owned third party (or whatever the technical term for it is) very, very soon, and I’d be equally surprised if any of PSN’s big exclusives turned up. Anything 360 has a much better chance of turning up on Steam, I think.

    But then I have a PC and a PS3, so I’m okay either way. I would like to play Limbo, though. Did Feist disappear off the face of the earth? Are the creators terrified Microsoft will eat them alive now if they try and market it?

    • neems says:

      Assuming that ThatGameCompany are the Journey / Flow / Flower people, I was under the impression that Sony already own them – or at least have a very big stake.

      Hmm, okay wiki says that they are independent, but are a second party Sony developer. Does that mean that Sony themselves are the publisher? I wouldn’t hold your breath for a PC release unfortunately.

  12. ChaosSmurf says:

    They’d also all be better on PC.

    The way it is.

  13. Shazbut says:

    I love this blog, but the one thing I don’t feel informed about enough is when games get cancelled for the PC. I’d been looking forward to Limbo and, unless I’m mistaken, there was never a post telling us it wouldn’t be headed our way. What about Deathspank? Is that not coming either?

    Perhaps this is too common and not newsworthy enough, and I know you guys do do it sometimes, but couldn’t you drop it in as an addendum like: “This week we’re talking about meaningful player agency and emergent behaviour in Stalker. By the way, we’re not getting Limbo.”

    I used to be one of those ” the PC is dying” people. I don’t think that any more, but I hate it when the only innovative games in production get announced for our platform and then cancelled. Can’t we be more angry? Can’t this anger be used in some productive way instead of just being nerd rage?

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      I’ve been asking for confirmation on Deathspank, and been ignored. We thought it was coming to PC.

    • jalf says:

      I’m pretty sure it still is. Both the Hothead blog and Ron Gilbert’s own one have been dropping some pretty strong hints.

      Gilbert made this post, stating that

      DeathSpank is poised to hit PSN, XBLA and [REDACTED] on July 13th, July 14th and [REDACTED] [REDACTED]th

      Ever since then, [REDACTED] has turned up pretty frequently in the comments. Here’s another quote from him:

      I have been and always will be a strong supporter of the [REDACTED] platform and the gamers that love it.

      And of course, on the Hothead blog:

      We’ve read all the polite requests (and the not so polite ones) to bring DeathSpank to PC platforms. Rest assured that both EA and Hothead want as many people as possible to experience DeathSpank, so don’t read too much into the announced platforms just yet. Get yourself subscribed to the RSS feed for this blog (links below) or follow us on Twitter and we’ll update you as soon as any new platforms get confirmed.

      Of course, hardly proof positive, but it looks like a PC version is coming. They’re just delaying it, probably to spite the evil pirates or something.

    • D says:

      Sadly, the Limbo for PC was only a mistake by the ESRB rating. Limbo guys never intentioned to do the PC. They were very slow in correcting it, so I guess you can be mad about that.

    • blargh says:

      This.

      I wonder how long it’ll take publishers to finally realize this. Eh.. Who am I kidding?

    • blargh says:

      Oops. Wrong post.

  14. def says:

    Don’t be daft people. We brought this on ourselves. How many copies of “World of Goo” were actually paid for? Which percentage of the Humble Indie Bundle was pirated? Nobody can blame indie devs to go console exclusive, because they will finally see the money they deserve for their work. A large enouth fraction of PC gamers has proven to be stealing bastards and this serves us well.

    • robrob says:

      Speak for yourself, Mr. Leppard. I don’t know who “we” includes but I doubt it is many of RPS’s fine readership.

    • FunkyBadger says:

      An elephant? Here? IN THE ROOM?

      *shush*

    • Navagon says:

      I could give you a long winded rebuttal. But there’s little point. You’re clearly far too keen to buy into the ‘official story’ and not look at things like how profitable the Humble Indie Bundle was, regardless of piracy, and how vast the amount of piracy on consoles really is.

      Pro tip: stop taking things at face value.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      “How many copies of “World of Goo” were actually paid for?”

      More than on the Wii, and that’s without Nintendo advertising it.

    • Jimbo says:

      “How many copies of “World of Goo” were actually paid for?” -Enough to make the developers extremely wealthy individuals.

      “Which percentage of the Humble Indie Bundle was pirated?” -Not enough to prevent them becoming even wealthier individuals. Also kinda inadmissable, because their own system made it so that having it pirated was actually a better outcome for them than if the customer went through the payment system and paid one cent (a ‘legit’ purchase).

      “I don’t know who “we” includes but I doubt it is many of RPS’s fine readership.” -Don’t kid yourself. Plenty of the people reading and commenting on RPS will pirate their games.

    • jalf says:

      @def: Well, I’m glad you get a kick out of this self-punishment. Are you a Christian, by any chance?

      I’m sorry to interrupt your self-flaggelation, but it **doesn’t matter** how many people pirate games. What matters is how many people **buy** it.

      And so far, I have seen little evidence of PC sales being critically low. Look at Valve’s games. Look at World of Goo sales. Look at Company of Heroes. Wait a few days and look at SC2. Look at Civilization 4.

      Hell, look at the recent articles about those NPD sales charts.

      Games do sell on PC. Perhaps not as well as on all three consoles combined, but from what I’ve seen, sales are pretty much on par with a single console.

      Anyway, I don’t know what **you** brought on yourself. But I didn’t. I spend more than enough money on PC games. Speak for yourself, please.

    • subedii says:

      Pretty much what Jalf said. Speak for yourself if you want, “we” didn’t bring anything on ourselves. I paid full price and bought World of Goo pre-release.

      Little fact, about 1/3 of World of Goo’s development cost was paid off by pre-orders. Tell me, how well do you think WoG would have ended up without the support of those pre-orders? Heck, the devs even praised the community on that one, since the game could have been put up on torrent sites well before release, but it never was.

      so far, the experiment is going well. we’ve sent the full unprotected game out to the few thousand people who pre-ordered it before this past monday and we haven’t yet found the game on any torrent sites. we were told about one warez site where someone posted the chapter 1 preview and their magic key (the key is needed because the preview did have some homebrew copy protection, it came out before we decided to go DRM-free). frankly, we’re pretty amazed and encouraged that this is the extent of the piracy we’ve seen.

      so a big 2D thank you to everyone who’s helping us show that if you treat gamers with trust and respect, the same treatment tends to be returned.

      You seem interested in raging about the plight of the poor developers and how they’ve been hard done by us (whoever “us” is here, I’m still not sure), and yet you’re not actively ignoring what they have said about the situation themselves. They still made a tonne of money, they’re still interested in the platform, and they still don’t want to support DRM. To me that sends about as clear a message as you can get.

      So I guess I should ignore them and… listen… to you… instead?

    • Bhazor says:

      ““How many copies of “World of Goo” were actually paid for?” -Enough to make the developers extremely wealthy individuals.”

      And if 10% of the pirates had paid for it they would have made twice as much. Don’t kid yourself, piracy is a big deal and its no wonder indie developers flock to the consoles where it’s considerably more work to pirate a game.

    • CMaster says:

      Just a few points to make here:
      1) Number of pirated copies doesn’t matter. Number of sales is all that does. Unless it can be shown that piracy on PC reduces sales on other platforms, then the only reason to not launch on PC is if your sales won’t make up for what the launch costs you.
      2) People running “pay what you want” deals don’t lose money on $0.01 buys. Yes, there is a transaction fee that is deduced from each transaction – but only deducted as far as $0.00
      3) Piracy numbers for indie games are really quite exaggerated. Introversion calculated it by number of patches downloaded – number of games sold. But I’ve redownloaded some of their patches as many as 6 or 7 times. The humble indie bundle was number of downloads – number of sales. Ignoring how many people downloaded for multiple platforms, or on their home + work PCs etc.

    • Jimbo says:

      @Bhazor: I don’t see any contradiction between your post and mine. I made no comment about whether piracy was a big deal or not. It is, but only in so far as it genuinely affects sales.

      The implication in the first post seemed to be that PC piracy is so bad that console exclusivity is actually more profitable than releasing on console and PC. I don’t see an awful lot of evidence to back that up, and World of Goo certainly isn’t evidence of it. There’s plenty of evidence to counter that claim though, like all the multiplat games that still come out on PC.

      Ideally a game would become available on as many platforms as possible, eventually. When that doesn’t happen it’s usually because it’s First Party, not particularly well suited to PC in the first place, or because one of the console manufacturers is throwing exclusivity money at them to build their install base.

  15. Laneford says:

    Limbo is wondrous thing.

  16. Diziet says:

    Limbo is nice however I’m not yet fully convinced it was worth the microsoft points it cost on XBox Live. It is undeniably pretty though. As for Joe Danger I’ve been sorely tempted to get it but I just can’t tear myself away from the sheer awesomeness that is Trials 2. I just feel hard done that my steam copy of it doesn’t have the level editor that the xbox copy gets. :( Is there a pc level editor anyone?

  17. Jimbo says:

    Summer of Arcade has had some great games in the last few years. Everything has to be at least a timed exclusive to be involved though. I would expect Limbo to come to PC eventually.

    Shadow Complex is probably the best 360 exclusive content that I have played. PS3 has plenty of excellent exclusive content, and a promising future in that regard.

  18. Bhazor says:

    To that list let me affix – Both the Pixel Junk and Art Style series as well as Demon Soul’s and Bayonetta.

    Oh god you said the C word. Prepare for some sodding flaming.

  19. Garg says:

    There was a game I read about a while ago called Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet that looked damned good, but was only confirmed for Xbox Live. I hope it finds its was on to the PC.

  20. fuggles says:

    Plus! No Scott Pilgrim game…boooo.

  21. Taillefer says:

    Limbo not appearing on the PC straight away saddens me greatly. Direct download from the devs and I’d be buying it right now. The slight bitterness didn’t affect my enjoyment of Braid, though. So we’ll see.

    Also, hadn’t even heard of Journey. Sounds promising.

  22. pkt-zer0 says:

    Summer of Arcade games (like Limbo) are required to be exclusive to the X360 for a month. Same deal as with the new Tomb Raider spinoff.

    As for Journey, they have an exclusivity deal with Sony, which I believe will be running out after that project is done.

  23. Jahkaivah says:

    @def

    You know what I’m sick of? “It’s your fault because a load of people who aren’t you did something bad”.

    Blame it on piracy if you must, but don’t blame it on me.

  24. Tunips says:

    Oh how I want Journey. I’m concerned though, that it might actually be better on the console. What with the sort of omni-present background multiplayer thing it has going.
    Maybe if we ask really nicely. Who can ask the most nicely? John?

    In the meantime I’m going to play Seiklus again.

  25. Mister, Please says:

    The Limbo team thanks Gabe Newell is the Special Thanks section, so who knows!

  26. tekDr agon says:

    i just wish there were a steam version of that XBLA settlers of Catan game.

  27. Wulf says:

    I trolled (read as: shared an opinion which was apparently against the majority, which is par the course for me) about this on the Indie Games blog, and apparently people were touchy about it and despise the idea of a multi-platform release.

    Some of the attitudes there are absolutely baffling to me, like Mike Rose saying that Shank isn’t really suited to PC gamers at all, despite the obviously massive emulator scene. That sentiment came over as very anachronistic, since console gamers these days are playing Uncharted and Gears of War, not Streets of Rage. In fact, you’d more likely find PC gamers who’re more recently acquainted with the likes of Streets of Rage than you would XBox 360 and PS3 owners.

    Of course, if the argument was that it had a place on the Wii, then that I could understand, considering that it’s a retro haven and the virtual console actually has side-scrolling beaty-uppy delights on offer. The argument was, however, that somehow a side-scrolling beat ‘em up is exactly what XBox 360 owners had been waiting for all these years. Which left me scratching my head, staring in disbelief, and wondering if perhaps Mike Rose was in a different Universe to the one I occupy. At least, perceptually.

    After all, there have been some amazing indie successes on the PC, and if you have a great game then a good community will do more with word of mouth than any amount of advertising on a gaming portal (such as Live and PSN) ever could, which makes the lack of multi-platform releases even more confounding if the games are really as good as they say. After all, look at Minecraft and Dwarf Fortress, two games which have been so financially successful that the authors are able to devote themselves to those games.

    I’m glad that games like Shank, Deathspank, and Joe Danger might eventually make their way to the PC, but I can’t help but think that they would’ve seen more sales if they’d had a simultaneous release. If piracy is a worry then setup some sort of contractual pledge system, kind of like the Overgrowth system, but wherein the developer requires X amount of pledged sales before making a release. If the desired amount of pledges is made by the release date, then the money is taken and replaced by a game download link. If not, then they simply allow people to opt-out of their pledge, and set the release date back. Couldn’t a system like that work? I’d get in on that. Wouldn’t you?

    Some delights though, like Limbo and Journey will never be seen on the PC. That’s a shame. I would throw money at them if they’d release for my platform, but if they’re not going to then I see no reason to support them in any way, shape, or form. I have access to consoles, but for various reasons (including some health issues) I just don’t feel comfortable gaming on a console any more, I’m much more at home with my gaming laptop, which does exactly what I want it to, and how I want it to.

    That pledge system could work. I pledged my money to NS2 and Overgrowth, even paying in advance in that case, so there are likely ways to avoid piracy that can work. It just takes a little planning on part of the developer. I’m sure even Steam would work with indie developers to setup a system like this. Valve are awesome people, so if approached with the idea, they could probably shoehorn it into Steam. They’d have the clout to make sure that pledges are collected, too.

    Well, that’s all I have to say about that, but to me, releasing games for consoles and not doing a full multi-platform release seems tantamount to idiocy. I still think there’s more of an audience for most of these games on the PC (I’ll go over this again in a moment), so the developers in question are probably missing a lion’s share of the profits by not being business savvy. Are they just too worried about piracy, or are there other concerns? But really, to a clever mind, you can overcome most problems.

    So, let’s see…

    * Joe Danger – Trials 2 did pretty well for itself, didn’t it? That’s one recent example of this sort of thing. Another that could be sort of slotted in is Trackmania.
    * Shank – We have fans of this genre, there are a number of freeware efforts I could name, but I can’t say the same for the consoles.
    * Deathspank – It’s a Diablo-clone. I mean, really. And topped off with the humour of that bloke wot-did a lot of writing for Monkey Island 2. Need I say more?
    * Limbo – If this was on the Wii, then I could understand. Given the likes of VVVVVV though, I think the PC has a stronger demographic for platformers than the mainstream consoles.
    * Journey – There may be a case for this on consoles, but it depends on how much they like artsy games. But it’s a bloody artsy game! Flower would likely have sold bucketloads on the PC, and this too. There are so many instances of art games (bad to good) on the PC that I can’t even begin to name them. It’d be like a console-only release of the updated Dear Esther. A concession here though, Sony are providing servers for Journey, so that might have something to do with it. :/

    Journey I can sort of understand not having a PC release. The rest? I can’t make any sense of it at all. To be honest, I’d really love for these developers to elucidate their position for us–or for me, anyway. Is it piracy? Are there other factors? if not, then why not?

    TL;DR: Grrr! Followed by a resigned and tired Whuf.

    • DiamondDog says:

      I agree with you that there would definitely be a market for these kinds of games on PC, but I think your argument about console gamers having less interest in something like Shank is a bit thin. Castle Crashers was well received, as was Bionic Commando Rearmed. I don’t really want to turn this into some kind of competition, but I think there is just as much desire for games like Shank among the console crowd. Once again the idea that most console gamers are thick-headed Gears of War lovers comes up, and I just don’t think it’s true.

    • RobF says:

      If I invest x amount of cash, am I more or less likely to recoup that money on the PC or on a console?

      Do I get (at least) a weeks worth of free promotion under the noses of every person who owns a PC when I release a game?

      Am I going to have a platform holder promote my game heavily for me?

      How many sites are going to promote a PC game, how many sites are going to promote a console game?

      How much magazine coverage can I get for a console game? How much magazine coverage can I get for a PC game?

      Assume, as a developer, I develop a game with a console in mind. Did I take x amount of money towards development or/and cert costs from the platform holder? If I did and that money was substantial enough, do you think I could just release it on the PC with no-one batting an eyelid or do you think I will have an exclusivity period for the platform I took the money for?

      Am I more comfortable developing for one fixed configuration or would I like to spend my time trying to ensure it works on a could-be-bloody-anything set up which might, in turn, cost more development time and money than I can afford?

      Are more people likely to fork out a fixed amount of money on a console than they are on a PC?

      Is the PC or console market saturated with similar titles?

      Am I happy with being beholden to gatekeepers or would I prefer to have the ability to do my own thing?

      What do I want to spend my time doing?

      There’s loads of more important questions someone would be asking themselves way beyond “I wonder if there’s a market for this on the PC” because, well, the answer to that question is always going to be “yes, there’s a market for x on the PC”. Whether it’s a sustainable thing to run a business around is an -entirely- different matter. Whether it’s something a dev wants to spend time doing is an entirely different matter, y’know?

  28. StormTec says:

    We are such a divisive crowd. On the one hand we look down our snobby noses at the “unworthy” console games and their “simplification for the masses”, and on the other we seem to wish so bad that we had games that came out on consoles to come out on the PC.

    • Wulf says:

      Actually, I think that’s just the differentiation between mainstream/populist and more niche games, regardless of the platform.

      I don’t think we can describe the games on offer here as anything but niche, can we? They’re niche games that we don’t have access to, they appeal to our particular demographic. To each their own, though, really. Everyone has things they like and things they don’t like, liking or disliking any particular thing is not a crime.

    • subedii says:

      Who’s “we” here?

      Here’s a tip: Saying “we” in this context is a very cynical method of trying to establish a negative stereotype without trying to prove it, and could possibly be in effect a means of begging the question by setting up a supposition before moving on to the rest of your statement. It’s also extremely obvious when people do it.

      I like both and I’d like to see Limbo on the PC. I would’ve also liked to have seen Uncharted 2 and Halo 3 on the PC. Kindly stop conflating Angry Internet Man stereotypes as something “we” do, it brings down the level of the entire discussion. I don’t “look down my nose” at consoles or consider their games “unworthy”, and most of the time I don’t see other people here doing it either (as is evidenced by the fact that clearly a lot people people would like to see Limbo on the PC as well).

      If you want to state that you do, then by all means, proceed, just don’t lump everyone else in with yourself. Somehow I suspect however, it wasn’t your intention to say that this is something you intentionally do yourself.

    • Wulf says:

      “Who’s “we” here?”

      Myself and the author, as was hopefully made clear by the context. It wasn’t a royal ‘we’ as in myself and lots of imaginary people. I was basically saying that I couldn’t describe the games as not being niche, and I was making the point that the poster above likely couldn’t either.

      “Here’s a tip: Saying “we” in this context is a very cynical method of trying to establish a negative stereotype without trying to prove it, and could possibly be in effect a means of begging the question by setting up a supposition before moving on to the rest of your statement. It’s also extremely obvious when people do it.”

      You’re assuming that was my intent, which is an assumption on your part. The thing is, I wasn’t trying to establish anything, but rather challenging the poster to see if they thought that the games on offer weren’t niche, and if they thought they weren’t, I’d be curious as to their opinions. You’re reading between the lines too much, and assuming my intent. I get this a lot, unfortunately.

      If we want to throw around fallacies though, I could cite character assassination, since you’ve gone off on this tangent without actually bothering to clarify my intent or understand the purpose of my post. Instead going on the attack and trying to twist what I said so that it elevates you whilst deprecating me.

      “I like both and I’d like to see Limbo on the PC. I would’ve also liked to have seen Uncharted 2 and Halo 3 on the PC.”

      You’re assuming my intent again. Did I say that I wouldn’t like to see those on the PC? As I’ve pointed out many times, I can be a champion of the mainstream as well, and for what it’s worth, I’ve watched a Let’s Play of Uncharted 2 from start to end, I actually dig the game. So from where I sit you’re clearly misunderstanding both my post and m intent to actually have made this point.

      “Kindly stop conflating Angry Internet Man stereotypes as something “we” do, [...]”

      See, there’s that assumption again. You’re assuming the wrong kind of ‘we’, which is a flawed assumption on your part and not a reflection on my post. Why couldn’t you have asked instead of assuming and making arses out of both of us in the process by going off on this mad tangent that I now have to reply to and clarify?

      “[...] it brings down the level of the entire discussion.”

      No, what brings down the level of the entire discussion – as you say – is when someone makes a base assumption without actually ensuring that they understand the point that the poster is trying to make, and they don’t take the time to clarify, which looks bad for everyone involved.

      “I don’t “look down my nose” at consoles or consider their games “unworthy”, [...]”

      I never said you did, nor was that my intent. This is a projection of how you feel, you’re projecting this position onto me because you feel you’ve been painted into a corner. In other words, you’re using me as a scapegoat to gain a platform to soapbox your position from. I think that’s a little unfair to me, really.

      “[...] and most of the time I don’t see other people here doing it either (as is evidenced by the fact that clearly a lot people people would like to see Limbo on the PC as well).”

      This I’d agree with, all though saying that might just confuse you all the more. :/

      “If you want to state that you do, then by all means, proceed, [...]”

      Nope, I wasn’t stating that I do. Again, please first understand the post you’re replying to, and then ensure that you understand the intent. You and I are more alike that you realise, I’m even on your side. But you’ve gone stumbling over your own feet here, and raged into Angry Internet Man mode without actually seeing what I was trying to do.

      It’s easier to rage than to verify.

      “[...] just don’t lump everyone else in with yourself.”

      I didn’t do that, I didn’t say I did anything, nor did I try to lump anyone in with anything.

      Again I’d point out that you’re confused by my intentions and you didn’t bother to verify.

      “Somehow I suspect however, it wasn’t your intention to say that this is something you intentionally do yourself.”

      I didn’t say (intention or otherwise) that I or anyone else did anything of the sort. Had you actually bothered to clarify the ‘we’, this whole travesty could have been averted.

      But again, I get this a lot. It’s hardly surprising to me. For some reason, I get a lot of raging and not enough verification, the way I put things tends to bring out the angry idiot in everyone, and after a while I just give up trying to do any good at all.

    • subedii says:

      My post wasn’t direct at you Wulf, it was direct at the original poster. I pretty much agree with what you said.

      However, I’ve seen people constantly wheel out how “we” do things as a means of justifying what’s stated next, when the reality is that what “we” do isn’t something that’s established and something I’m not interested in being associated with.

    • subedii says:

      (Apolgies but I can’t edit here) :

      I mean if you look at the quotes I used, you say that you never said those things and that I’m just projecting onto you. I’m not, I’m quoting the OP, who did literally say those things.

    • subedii says:

      Incidentally, I hope you realise that you just did everything that you were accusing me of doing. :P

  29. Lucas says:

    BURN ZOMBIE BURN ON STEAM IN AUGUST IN ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS

  30. JohnnyMaverik says:

    Bloody console exclusives.

  31. Eight Rooks says:

    I will say it again, and very clearly: I will wager an unspecified amount of internets that a) no flagship Sony game will ever be released on PC, and b) as soon as ThatGameCompany’s contract runs out, Sony will announce they’ve bought them up. They’d have to be insane not to basically shower them with money until they accept. If they can buy out Media Molecule they can do it with these guys.

    Not to mention I dread to think what most hardcore PC gamers would make of Flower and Flow. ‘What? I’m expected to pay for this? Where’s the depth? Where’s the strategy? Oh God this is so serious, where are the talking monkeys speaking in badly translated Romanian?’

    I do wish N+ and Trials HD would come to PC, though. They’re about the only XBLA games I miss since giving up on the 360.

    • Wulf says:

      Uh, what… ?

      You don’t market niche games to a mainstream audience regardless of the platform, and to be honest, considering the existence of things like The Void, Dear Esther, The Path, and so many others I think that the audience for bizarre, niche games is greater on the PC than on the consoles.

      Let me switch that around and show you what I mean.

      Not to mention that I dread to think what most mainstream console gamers would think of Flower and flOw. “What? I’m expected to pay for this? Where’s the blood? Where’s the poor script writing that I find so endearing? Where are the guns?! Oh God this is cheery, ghey, and confusing, why don’t I have a grizzled commander yelling in my ear and telling me what to do?”

      :p

  32. Eight Rooks says:

    Oh, and I hate that expression, ‘liking or not liking something is not a crime’. Of course it’s not. It is frequently based on knee-jerk, poorly articulated, baseless opinions and pitiful superiority complexes that deserve every bit of mockery they get, though.

    • Wulf says:

      I’m not disagreeing with that. You’ll find that I’ve championed games both mainstream and niche. I was just making a point that this isn’t related to a platform, that some people enjoy solely mainstream games, whereas others enjoy solely niche games.

      Your sarcasm is duly noted, though!

    • Wulf says:

      To add to that, I think my point was mostly that anyone who limits themselves to any particular sort of game and looks down on others is deserving of ridicule. Contrary to popular belief, I’ve seen populist elitists, which is hilarious. I remember a certain, recent Farmville rant that went that way…

  33. KillahMate says:

    Journey is the real deal here. Limbo looks really nice, and Joe Danger seems like a fun game, but Journey strikes me as a possible spiritual sequel to Shadow of the Colossus, my favorite non-PC game ever. Seriously looking forward to it.

    • Wulf says:

      I almost read that as ‘Shadow of the Beast’, which I could also draw startling parallels to, although Journey might not be quite that atmospheric.

    • Laneford says:

      You do know there is a real sequel to shadow of the colossus coming out on PS3 soon right?

      :(

    • KillahMate says:

      Yes, I know about The Last Guardian, and it seems to continue much in the vein of ICO and SotC, and isn’t something radically different, which is great… But Journey seems like it could be that amazing new world that SotC was for me the first time I played it* – if you understand what I mean. That’s what I mean by ‘spiritual’ sequel; Team ICO’s games are more than just spiritual sequels, all three could pretty much be parts of the same world.

      * It’s worth noting that I played SotC before ICO, so you can imagine what an impact it had on me.

    • Manley Pointer says:

      Journey could be really cool, but the previous thatgamecompany games have seemed pretty thin to me. I understand that there are great novellas, and great short films, and that it’s not always fair to call things insubstantial just because they are short. I still think thatgamecompany’s games have been insubstantial, and flower was bluntly message-y, which is a mark against it (in the same way that blandly message-driven films have always been dull, yet continue to attract awards committees). So while Journey seems really promising, the past work of the company producing it makes me think it will be nowhere near as powerful an experience as SotC or Ico.

      And it sounds a bit like Demon’s Souls (mysterious ruins and an online world), which was my favorite game to come out for any platform last year, but with fewer things to do. But Journey isn’t out yet so who knows.

  34. John Peat says:

    Despite all the “sound and fury” about PC piracy, there are considerable benefits to bringing your lovely indie titles to the PC – not the least of which is that the games you DO sell will being you REAL MONEY!

    Worrying about the games you won’t sell because someone will pirate your game is daft – you may as well as “I don’t want that pile of £10s because there it could be a pile of £20s”.

    Lots of people sell game son PC and make a profit – thus piracy is academic.

    Also – the PC marketplace provides MUCH more feedback for a game developer. I’d give the example of Beat Hazard, which arrived on XBL to a muted response and mixed reviews (mostly complaints about song formats and other issues).

    When it later came to PC, the developer clearly got much better feedback because he proceeded to improve the game with patch after patch (none of which appears to have happened to the XBL version – presumably because there’s not the feedback mechanism that things like the Steam Forums offer??)

    Exclusivity does work tho – there’s a 360 Elite in a box next to me (not yet opened), I caved over Deathspank as the last straw (and £135 wasn’t robbery) but I’d still like to see all those things (esp Joe Danger) on PC

  35. Freud says:

    I’m not sure I would pay €10 for three hours of, admittedly very pretty, platform fun. Braid I bought and enjoyed, because of the heavy puzzle element but that seems to be lacking here.

    In a way, I think I got the Limbo experience by looking at these videos. Adorable but it doesn’t look all that fun to play.

    • subedii says:

      I don’t know, for some reason the videos gave me a heavy vibe of “Another World”. Which was also a platformer that featured a tonne of sudden death (a lot of it completely unfair since you wouldn’t know about it until it happened), but man I loved it.

      I could see myself putting up with sudden death for a good platformer like this.

  36. sfury says:

    So… we meet again, Jenova!

  37. Tanner says:

    @Wulf
    Console gamers don’t like beat ‘em ups? Castle Crashers is in the top 3 best-selling games on XBLA. The recent Final Fight double pack is up there, too. (Not top 3, though)
    I’m angry that the PC doesn’t have these games, but “Console people don’t like x type of game” is kind of a silly way to complain.

    • TotalBiscuit says:

      I’d like Wulf to name the last brawler/beat-em-up that sold well on PC. Anyone? The original Fighting Force maybe?

      Brawlers are getting a nice resurgence on console, Scott Pilgrim looks fantastic as well.

    • Risingson says:

      People, Wulf said that PC gamers, as Wii gamers (and I may add, DS gamers), are more oriented to oldschool type of gaming. No need to point at him, yelling and expose him in public humiliation or such, uh?

  38. Arnulf says:

    Some more games in that vain:

    Miegakure

    ilomilo

    Fez

    Since Braid I’ve broken down and got an XB360. That way I’m not missing out.

    Limbo is disturbing.

  39. Urthman says:

    Unless I see some spreadsheets proving otherwise, I’m going to say these companies refusing to release PC versions of their games are financial idiots.

    Once you’ve made a complete game for Xbox, the cost of making a decent PC port has got to be a very small percentage of what you spent on the original game. Unless the game is a flop across the board, I can’t believe you wouldn’t make back that small investment, even with a 90% piracy rate.

    Alan Wake kinda bombed on the consoles, so maybe a PC port would have cost more than PC sales would have made. But something like Joe Danger? For a very small investment, that thing could be on Steam right now earning them money.

    I’m guessing this is one of those irrational economic things that humans are prone to, like gambling, where your brain misjudges the numbers and you do something that’s not in your economic interest. Or it’s like the Ultimatum Game, where you offer one guy some money and ask him how he’ll split it with the other guy, giving the second guy a veto if he doesn’t like the split. If the split is uneven, the second guy will usually punish himself, turning down free money, just so he can also punish the first guy for being greedy.

    • subedii says:

      Did Alan Wake not sell well? I didn’t really hear much about it after release.

    • Bhazor says:

      Unless people end up not buying the console version because they can get it free on the PC.

    • neems says:

      Joe Danger was developed with multi-platform release in mind – some of the earlier developer videos clearly show an X-Box 360 build; I believe PC may have been mooted, not sure. The problems came when they tried to get investors and publishers interested – lots of ‘not interested’ responses. Apparently Sony / PSN were much more favourable in terms of getting the game funded and released (they run some sort of indie incentive scheme I believe), which is why Joe Danger is currently PS3 exclusive.

      It is generally worth assuming that some of these people may actually know what they are doing; if you are running a small company, and you and your family and your friends and their families are all depending on the game’s success, you will think long and hard about the economic realities. Probably much longer and much harder than people posting about it on the internet.

  40. mroaes says:

    So, when we will be able to not remove these from inventory, eh? Wink, wink.

  41. Alexandros says:

    Can we not have any more of this type of article please? If they want to release these games on PC, great, we’ll buy them if they’re good. If they don’t intend to release them , I really couldn’t care less and I’m sure as hell not going to ‘beg’ anyone to do so. There are tons of PC developers that release games on our platform and those are the people who deserve our support.

  42. Miko says:

    Me, I just want everything Nippon Ichi have ever made. I don’t have any idea why you’d make those types of games for something that’s controlled with a joypad of all things, instead of their natural home the PC.

    I’ve got a bunch of their stuff for Playstation 2, but I’d still buy it again if it meant I could play it on my laptop on a train with a mouse + keyboard.

    • Vinraith says:

      Amen to that. I find it very difficult to play that kind of strategy game on a TV screen with a controller, something about that situation makes it hard to concentrate and really invest myself in the game. It works better on a DS, oddly, but the PC would be the best possible platform for these sorts of titles IMO.

  43. myveryownself says:

    No.

  44. rocketman71 says:

    Please add Bomberman Live in that list. We’ve been waiting for a proper, TCP-enabled, sequel since Atomic fucking Bomberman. And that’s fucking 1997.

  45. dethtoll says:

    I’ve a 360 so I’m not too concerned. It’d be nice if they were on PC though, ‘cuz I keep my 360 disconnected/tucked away when I’m not playing through any games that require it.

  46. Binni says:

    Well the state of PC indie games vs. Console indie games (or rather their coverage) was quite obvious when a group of smarties decided to give the pile of pretentious crap that was Blueberry Garden the grand prize at the indie games festival.

    Having said that I buy almost all original looking PC and Xbox 360 indie games because I am supporting independent developers…and most of the time they actually turn out to be way more fun the latest Guitar of Duty, The only time I’ve ever regretted spending my money like that was Blueberry Garden.

    • RobF says:

      Heh, to be fair-ish I don’t think you could have known from the WIP version that it’d turn out quite as broken and flunky as it did.

      It’s still an interesting idea, conceptually at least. The kinda living eco system where things go about their own business, the dreamlike flying and the sweet sketchy artwork, all good ideas.

      Just y’know, the game felt half finished and not really fleshed out to meet even the simplest parts of its concepts. Utterly broken collision detection, unresponsive controls, the eco system didn’t really do anything of any use or more crucially didn’t appear to serve any purpose or do anything visible to the player and the time limit goal for turning the water off being quite at odds with the sort of dreamy freedom thing. (Remedied later in the playgroundy patch but none of the more critical play problems got addressed, I don’t think)

      It came across as rather depressingly unfinished and broken on release and well, indie or mainstream, I’m not sure that’s acceptable.

      Whilst the IGF has had many problems, I think all the problems with Blueberry Garden post win are things that were you to play a WIP version you’d anticipate would actually be bloody well fixed and could be overlooked at that stage in development. That they weren’t, even with a subsequent patch release later on is down to the author.

      A big shame, really.

  47. Psychopomp says:

    @CMaster

    Bandwidth isn’t free

    • CMaster says:

      @Psycopomp (sorry, only just spotted the reply fail)
      True, although it is fairly cheap these days.
      I was responding to the claim that it was somehow “better” for those offering the Humble Indie Bundle for people to pirate it than to pay a small amount and incur a transaction cost.

  48. ken says:

    In response to Bhazor, as the reply system no long works for me:
    YES! I need Pixel Junk Shooter on the PC. That game just looks so much fun, and the fluid physics are spectacular. Anyone else? Eh? Eh?

  49. The Sombrero Kid says:

    limbo’s confirmed (it’s got 1 month exclusivity on xbla), you guys either know joe dangers coming to PC or you’s've been royally dupped by hello games since you covered it and the last one will never happen.

  50. Crush says:

    I really enjoyed Limbo it’s quite good and very beautiful. The difficulty in the puzzles really ratchets up towards the end.

    Reminds me of Another World in a way though much less forgiving, even down to all the eerily accurate death animations for all the different ways you can die.

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