Rock, Paper, Shotgun

Cardboard Children: DungeonQuest

By Robert Florence on September 18th, 2010 at 5:49 pm.


Hello. Every Saturday, from now until-

TEST YOUR READING SKILLS!

YOU ARE DEAD!

Let’s try that again.

Hello. Every Saturday, from now until the day you die, I’m going to be here to talk to you about board games. And card games. And pen and paper role-playing games. And stuff. My name’s Robert Florence, and I used to spend a lot of time talking about computer games, like the other fine fellows on this site. But these days I like to talk about games you can hold in your hand. Games you can touch and smell and flip right off the table in a rage if you should feel the need. Games that take up a ridiculous amount of space, and make you decide that you’ll be moving house in a couple of years just so you can have a dedicated games room. Which is ridiculous. So, you tell people you need to move because you want to have another child. Yes, a cardboard child. With statistics and an axe. Called OLAF THE DREAD.

I don’t want you to see this as a board game review column. One of the things I love about RPS is that there isn’t a massive reliance on that ugly, terrible thing: the formal review. I’m simply going to be talking to you about the games I love, and the new releases, and all the breaking news, and what works and what doesn’t. I’m going to try to get you excited about board games. I’m going to be helping you to find your way into the hobby, if you decide you want to join us at the table. I’m going to be encouraging a lot of chat about board games in the comments bit below. If you’ve ever wanted to bore someone about an amazing game of Heroquest you once played, this is your opportunity. I want to hear your stories. This is our little weekend board game club.

In this first column, I’m going to be talking a bit about where board games are right now. Some general stuff you need to get your head round, so you can confidently strut your stuff in any board games shop in the country. And then I’m going to get bored of talking about that and start telling you about one of my favourite games of all time: Dungeonquest.

TELL ME ABOUT THE SCENE

It’s easy to get yourself across the whole board game thing. There are two board games in board gaming. One of them is called Monopoly and the other one is called Cluedo. Oh, and there’s that other one, Risk. No, actually, that one’s too hard. Too long. Forget that one. There’s Monopoly and Cluedo. Stick them in the cupboard and lose all the bits and forget about them.

THAAAAAAAT’S BOARD GAMES!

You would think so, wouldn’t you? The reason why most people hate the thought of playing a board game is because they’ve had some terrible experiences with them. They’ve played Monopoly using the wrong rules, probably. They’ve distractedly watched the telly while taking a couldn’t-give-a-fuck guess at which bit of plastic committed a murder in Cluedo. And, God help them, they’ve spent five hours lost in that nightmarish world of boredom and Lovecraftian, maddening frustration I like to call “Fucking Risk”. I should tell you right up front how I feel about that Holy Trinity Of The Thoughtless Christmas Gift. I love Monopoly. I dislike Cluedo. And I detest Fucking Risk. We’ll talk about Fucking Risk again further down the line, because it’s a fascinating tale of a million attempts at fixing a terrible game. And of how some of the attempts worked.

Let’s talk about what’s actually out there, by using some of the stupid generalisations that exist. Let’s talk Eurogames, Ameritrash and Wargames.

LET ME AT THAT LANCASHIRE!

The games we call Eurogames usually have very little luck, and very little direct player interaction. Eurogamers react to dice like Damien reacts to that chapel visit in The Omen. These are games that will have you setting up efficient little economic or military engines on your table, like a right little Nazi. These are games that usually won’t allow any players to be eliminated, because BOO-HOO THAT’S NOT FAIR. These games will be gentle with you. Reiner Knizia is one of the best-known designers of this type of game. His games are often maths-based, and often shite. The Eurogame style is often pushed as the be-all and end-all of quality gaming. Ticket to Ride is a game that is known as a “gateway game” to other games. Yes. Other Eurogames, maybe. But building a fucking train track hardly prepares you for spewing bullets at an Ork. Eurogames are also commonly about farmers, camels, bits of fruit, planks of wood, koala bears and slaves. None of which are very easy to get passionate about. It often doesn’t matter what a Eurogame is about, though, because very rarely does a Eurogame’s mechanic express a game’s theme well. (Dr Knizia, please stand up.) Eurogames are the board games you can play in polite company, over a bowl of wine and cheese flavour Monster Munch. There are, however, some spectacularly brilliant games in the Eurogame style. And the definition itself is ridiculous anyway, so ignore everything I said.

PRIME AMERITRASH

Then we have Ameritrash. In typical American fashion, many of the greatest Ameritrash games are British in origin, but they call them “Ameritrash” anyway. Ameritrash games are all about theme, and player interaction, and lashings of delicious luck. Almost all of the great games you played as a young boy or girl will have been Ameritrash. Heroquest? Yes. Space Hulk? Yes. Thunder Road? Yes. If you’ve ever rolled a dice to hit the guy sitting to your left with a poisoned lance, causing him to storm out of the door and march back to his mum’s house with tears in his eyes, you’ve played some prime Ameritrash. Ameritrash games are looked down on by many Eurogamers, because it’s all just luck and stupid goblins and chain guns and toys and for God’s sake grow up and help me increase the workrate of these slaves in my plum orchard. Just so you know where I stand, I’m an Ameritrash man at heart. And I actually like the word “Ameritrash”. It’s full of tackiness and self-deprecation and humour, and it fits just fine. But it’s a ridiculous definition, so ignore everything I said.

Then we have Wargames. Played by grim-faced men in darkened basements. Millions of poorly illustrated counters laid across boards the size of a squash court. Games that take three months to play to completion. Games steeped in accurate historical representations of some of the most horrible times in mankind’s existence. Wargamers look on as Eurogamers and Ameritrashers squabble about “games”, and smirk at the folly of it all. Then, they turn up the collars of their coats, and walk into the wind, head bowed, fists clenched. The weight of the world on their shoulders. Fading into the distance. One look back. A smile at us. A nod. “Leave this to me.” A tear? Maybe just a trick of the light. And then gone, never to be seen again.

This is all rubbish, of course. But it’s kinda sorta the scene. You need to know the scene, the battle lines, if you want to be part of this whole mess. This whole expensive mess. And where we are right now is that Eurogames were running the show for a while there, but Ameritrash games are having a bit of a resurgence. And Wargames are still in the basement.

Now, let’s talk about-

YOU ARE DEAD

Let’s try that again.

Let’s talk about DUNGEONQUEST!

DUNGEONQUEST


THE NEW BOX ART

Dungeonquest has always been one of my favourite games of all time. It was first released in English by Games Workshop in 1985, and it’s just a total bastard. I laugh every time I take Dungeonquest off the shelf. The sound of a laugh actually comes out of my mouth. When you know you’re about to die, but willingly march onwards regardless, you have to laugh.

The 1985 rulebook boasts that the game has a 15% survival rate. I remember the first time I read that statistic. “Aye, right. Sure.” If anything, the figure’s been inflated. Dungeonquest will fuck you up. It will do it in the most cruel manner possible. It’s the type of game that wouldn’t be designed today. In this era of NO PLAYER ELIMINATION, why would you design a game that happily kills players on their first turn? Dungeonquest is a product of its time, and one of the most exciting games ever created.


AN UNEXPLORED DUNGEON OH GOD HELP

Here’s how it works. The board is a grid, with an entry space on each corner, and a big space in the middle. In the middle lies the dragon, asleep, atop a pile of lovely treasure. Your job is just to get in, get to the middle, grab a bit of treasure, and get out before sundown. Easy, right? OH GOD HELP NO. In your turn you can move into the dungeon and draw a random tile to place on the board, upon which will be an illustration of a room of some kind. It might be an empty dungeon space, or a corridor, or maybe even a BOTTOMLESS PIT TEST YOUR AGILITY YOU ARE DEAD OH GOD. If you manage to survive even going into the room, you can then search the room. You might find something that kills you, or find a secret door that leads into another room where a monster will kill you. Then, in your next turn, you can draw another tile, place it on the grid, and continue your journey to the centre of the board. (I don’t want you to think it’s all bad stuff in the game. You can also find things like Unstable Potions that will maybe heal your wounds! Or kill you.) Once you reach the middle of the board, you draw a card from a deck of seven cards. Six of these cards tell you that the dragon is sleeping. One of them tells you the dragon is awake. If you wake the dragon, you are dead. If you don’t, you draw some treasure! On your next turn, you can search for more treasure, but this time the dragon deck is down to six cards – more chance of YOU ARE DEAD. You can keep searching too. Pushing your luck. Then, if you survive that, all you have to do is get out of there. Find the way back to a board’s corner. Before time runs out. And you die.


A DEAD END OH GOD HELP

The game is hard. But hilarious. In my most recent game, just this week, I was still laughing at Kenny’s dwarf’s head being lopped off by a trap when I drew a Bottomless Pit tile that had me needing to roll a 3 or under with 2D6 to survive. I rolled an 11. The whole table exploded in laughter. Everyone was dead a turn later, because the dungeon hates laughter. When you get out of the dungeon, treasure in hand, you feel like a superhero. You remember it. You never forget it. I like to think that the treasure’s cursed, and that my hero dies in his sleep later that night. To me, Dragonfire Dungeon is the daddy of all dungeons. That’s why the game is never frustrating. The dungeon is the star. You’re just there to add another tale to its history, another bloodstain to its floor.

It’s the simplicity of Dungeonquest that I love. It can be explained to a new player in a few minutes, and then they can be dead a minute later. Welcome to board gaming. You are dead.

The game plays four players, but it can also be played solo, something I’ve done many times. It’s good to face down the dungeon on your own. No distractions. It lets you concentrate better as your body is cleaved in two by a trap. The solo rules mean that there’s no excuse for you not to accept the dragon’s challenge. You don’t need anyone to play the game with. The dungeon will happily play with you, any time you want.


OH GOD HELP

The good news for you, if you want to be just another victim, is that you don’t have to scour ebay for Dungeonquest any more. Fantasy Flight Games has just released a brand new edition, with beautiful components, and the Catacombs expansion thrown in. (The Catacombs expansion lets you die underneath the dungeon too!) There’s been a fair bit of controversy over the new combat system that Fantasy Flight has introduced, so I need to stick my oar in. Forgive me.

In the original, combat with monsters was resolved using a simplistic system that was pretty much Scissors, Paper, Stone. It was quick, unfussy, but very bland. It let the player get back to exploring without too much delay. The new system is a card battle mechanic, and combat now takes a little longer. There are, however, more decisions and more flavour to the battles. Some old-school players are angry that the game has slowed down. They feel the card battle is an unnecessary complication. Personally, I like the card battling a lot. It speeds up a lot as you get used to how it works, and it brings an element of excitement to the fights. It’s pretty much a simple “play-high” mechanic, but with a nice counterattack system, and a thrilling “Deathblow” element that lets you stack already played cards of the same type into a super attack. My one issue is that if you buy the new edition, there is no option to play the old way. The old, basic rules should have been included.

I love Dungeonquest. It’s a laugh, which is one of the best things you can say about any game. It’s a game you will talk about the day after you played it, and the year after. There is nothing more human than wanting something awful to befall your friends.

This is the game for you, human.

GOODBYE

This was a long one, so thanks for your patience. I’ll be back next week with a look at something old, and something new. Please chat to me in the comments below. Consider this our Saturday Board Games Club, for fuck’s sake. Any questions about Dungeonquest or board games in general will be happily answered.

ZAA OOO ZAA!

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204 Comments »

  1. ErikM says:

    Grim-faced man reporting in! There’s nothing quite like moving hundreds of little cardboard markers over a maps of old battles in an old WWII bunker(Which was where our strategy club was conveniently located.)!

    Looking forward to the coming Saturdays!

  2. Sweedums says:

    ZAA OOO ZAA!

    I do want to get into board games, but I can’t for the life of me think of anyone I know who would be willing to play them lol…. oh well.

    • TimA says:

      Same problem here, sadly. I’ve never played anything like this.

      However I do enjoy reading about these things, great stuff, thanks!

    • Xercies says:

      Same. i really want to get Chaos of The old world and some others because of Rabs fantastic video reviews on them(you watch the whole chaos of the old world video and not be entranced by the game and be so close to buying it, i dare you) but i don’t really have anyone to play with, my family only likes the old favourites…and my friends aren’t into playing boardgames that much and if we are…there the old favourites lol.

    • dudekiller says:

      It’s less hard than you think. Get some friends round. Grab a few bottles of wine. Crack out Settlers of Catan or Ticket to Ride or something. Demand that they play it. DEMAND.

      Oh, they’ll be skeptical at first. I guarantee that wild dogs will not be able to tear them away from the game by the time you’ve finished the first bottle.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      Same here. Also, board games tend to be rather expensive.

      Alright, back to Starcraft 2, then.

    • Robert says:

      Well it’s one thing to demand them to play Catan. I can do that. But Dungeon Quest…..

      In any case. WELCOME! I enjoyed the column, and look forward to more!

    • a says:

      Yeah, same problem here. But I did ENJOY THIS ARTICLE and I’m looking forward to more. But the Ameritrash title HURT MY FEELING A LITTLE. ;_;

    • Sweedums says:

      @Xercies

      hah yeah, Rob’s video about Space Hulk had me entranced… and the one about chaos of the old world just left me wanting it bad. Ever since seeing them I have been wanting to try them… maybe I’ll just have to invest in one of them at some point, and try bullying some friends into playing it to see what its like, but as pkt-zer0 said, they do tend to be rather expensive, unfortunately.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Rob’s video made me buy Space Hulk. Of course we only played it a few times over a week and have now stopped. It’s great fun, but sooo massive it barely fits in our house. It’s also pretty boring setting it up.

    • dadioflex says:

      “I do want to get into board games”

      They can help you: http://www.dignitas.ch/

  3. SomeGuy says:

    two questions, where is warhammer 40K in this spectrum, and where is diplomacy?.

    thats pretty much all my experence.

    • user@example.com says:

      40K’s a miniatures wargame, which are practically a separate hobby. Diplomacy has elements of all three, but the categories are generally made up and subjective anyway.

    • Arathain says:

      WH40K seems to sit comfortably enough in Ameritrash. British, chain guns, toys, loads of dice.

  4. Out Reach says:

    Bring on “War on Terror the Board Game”

    http://www.waronterrortheboardgame.com/

  5. Daniel Rivas says:

    Oof, that was good.
    I’m sort of more interested in the Lancashire boardgame than DungeonQuest, though. Is that weird? It’s probably weird.

  6. Spoon says:

    Rab on RPS?! Let me go change my pants real quick…

    Now that that’s sorted, I must also profess my love for DungeonQuest. The first game we played, the guy to my left fell into a bottomless pit on his first move, and I took a scything blade to the face a few turns later. AND IT WAS AMAZING.

  7. Jesus says:

    Damn RPS, I think my interest and your interests are exactly the same all the time.
    If RPS was a person I would marry it.

  8. Archonsod says:

    I still have the original Dungeon Quest floating around somewhere. Though as I recall, the nastiest thing wasn’t the traps or the monsters, it was the one way doors combined with dead ends that seemed to claim the vast majority of our adventurers.

  9. cypher says:

    …and with the addition of a regular boardgaming article RPS reaches the status of best blog *ever*.

  10. Dolphan says:

    Good stuff, looking forward to more of these.

  11. Antsy says:

    Pure dead brilliant!

  12. spinks says:

    Woah, someone who actually plays board games who likes Monopoly. That’s a first. (It has the most godforsaken awful endgame …. :P )

  13. user@example.com says:

    Yay, board games coverage on RPS! Warhammer Quest was the best GW game ever, Command & Colors [sic]: Ancients is the best light wargame and also one where used copies are worth more than new ones due to all the stickering you have to do, and I get to play Combat Commander again in a fortnight, glee.

    I’ve been playing Phantom Leader a bit lately. It’s a solitaire game, like one of those new-fangled computer whatsits only with cards and chits and so on. One of these days I’ll not screw up horribly on a 7-day campaign. It’s great, and I want to pick up the new edition of Hornet Leader at some point. There are reviews on BoardGameGeek, both games are highly recommended. There are also commercial VASSAL versions and a PC version of the last edition of Hornet Leader, if you want to play on a computer.

  14. Jambo says:

    Awesome! I really enjoyed reading that, and hope for a future post on arkham horror :)

  15. jackflash says:

    Great column, I look forward to trying this out. In future columns I’d love it if you touched on -

    1) Axis and Allies Miniatures – because I’ve recently become totally addicted and more people should know about it / play it, and

    2) Summoner Wars – because it looks pretty new and I’d like to know more about it.

    Cheers!

  16. Nick says:

    I didn’t think RPS could get any better and then a wild Rab appears.

    • Edgar the Peaceful says:

      Yep, I’ve been hoping that RPS would cover boardgames – you can tell from various asides in articles that they (all?) play them. Excellent direction. Board games are PC games’ tacticle and social cousin.

    • Edgar the Peaceful says:

      *tactile* doh

  17. Norskov says:

    I’m not sure I like this RPS expansion. More stuff to read and less time for me to do proper work. At some point I have to stop working and just spend my time reading.

  18. Freud says:

    Even though me and my friends don’t really have to time to play board games when we get together these days, I enjoyed reading it. I think computer games designers could learn a lot from the best board games. The constraints of the format forces design economy.

  19. Bas says:

    Awesome! You are obviously going to keep posting these regardless of what others say, but keep it up! Great read, looking into Dungeonquest now.

  20. mandrill says:

    Now I want to play this game and die horribly. Where can I get it if I’m in Iceland?

  21. Alexander Norris says:

    This is pretty good.

    Let me repeat the entreaty I twat (seat, sat; tweet, twat) you earlier: please never, ever cover D&D, or at the very least, if you intend to do so, only cover things up to AD&D2 and only for their historical relevance, pretty please. Otherwise, if you point out how rubbish 3.x was and how gloriously awesome 4E is, there’s just going to be silly arguments that already exist everywhere else on the Internet (like the pure, distilled idiocy of those calling 4E “a video game” or “a WoW boardgame” or everything else the grogs like to be horrendously wrong about).

    But also: Dungeonquest! While I generally don’t think that eliminating a player from the game (entirely or practically – if he’s place in a position where he can do nothing either to influence the game or to get back into winning place, he’s effectively eliminated) is kosher, Dungeonquest is something else entirely. It’s a bit like running Tomb of Horrors with pregen’d characters — it’s something you do for laughs with friends and copious amounts of booze, and the race to see who dies first/best/most incongruously is what makes it so great. I wish I’d had access to it as a kid, but aside from some sort of weird knock-off clone of HeroQuest all I really had was Fucking Risk.

    • Vinraith says:

      You realize, of course, that you just did exactly what you told him not to do?

    • Alexander Norris says:

      Oh! Also!

      Curious absence of what’s more commonly called wargames by the layperson, i.e. the rubbishness of 40k/FB and the excellence of other things not made by GW’s main branch like BloodBowl/Warmaster/Epic/Necormunda/Mordheim or things not remotely made by GW like Infinity and Helldorado, even though you mention what should rightfully be called wargames by the layperson. Intentional because you’re not going to cover any miniature wargames, or did you just not feel the need to distinguish between Warmachine and Advanced Squad Leader?

      Although, I’d actually really like a product review of Little Wars. Pretty please with a cherry on top, Rab?

    • Alexander Norris says:

      @Vinraith — no, I’m entirely blind to the irony intentionally inserted in my own posts. ;)

      The point is, the RPS I hold in my head is a place of intelligent persons with impeccable tastes, and I don’t want real, actual people ruining that mental image by being wrong about D&D.

    • Vinraith says:

      But you’ve already shattered that image for me, by being wrong about D&D. ;)

      Actually I don’t really care, I got off the train at 3.5 and had pretty much stopped paying attention even before then. All my fondest memories of D&D are from the 2E and 2.5E eras, and those days are long gone. (Un)fortunately, the great RPG’s of my teenage years (Millenium’s End, Sun and Storm, Mythos, Twilight 2000) have all had the decency to become extinct, so their memory can’t be so easily sullied.

    • Nick says:

      Well, the great thing about P&P RPGs is you can play whatever edition you want.

    • user@example.com says:

      “Original D&D(1974) is the one true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.”

      It’s actually pretty good. OD&D (not the basic set, or basic/expert, or becmi, or rules cyclopedia) is my second-favourite edition after 4e. The supplements are OK, but I prefer the original set without them. One of these days I have to get my head around the original combat system, which uses the old Chainmail man-to-man and fantastic combat rules, but the alternate system which became the core D&D combat system works well enough.

    • Vinraith says:

      @Nick

      Very true. It’s funny, really, that the current D&D rules set has more impact on PC gaming (where one is forced to use the newest set by new games) than on PnP gaming (where, as you say, you’re always free to use whatever set you like as long as you can find the supplements you want).

    • Alexander Norris says:

      @Vinraith — have you ever wondered why 80s-style RPGs are dying? :P

    • Vinraith says:

      @Alexander

      Because every subsequent generation of kids is dumber? :)

      Nah, it’s just simple demographics, like any type or genre of game. As gaming gains a broader and broader audience, the popular franchises are forced to either cater to said broader audience or become niche. Catering to an audience from a non-gamer background means becoming more accessible, more streamlined, less math-heavy, and less complex, or what your average angry internet person refers to as “dumbing down.” This can result in a product that’s genuinely better for having cast off unnecessary complexity or a product that loses all depth in scrambling to be accessible, or something inbetween. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter, because the core audience that enjoyed the complex, math intensive, generally groggy stuff is still around, and there are still niche games that will cater to them no matter what the mainstream stuff becomes. So rather than get angry about it, I simply move on, recognizing (as always) that the mainstream and my own opinions and tastes are rarely on the same planet, let alone the same ballpark. In the case of PnP games its even easier, as it’s not like I have a group anymore anyway, so the whole subject is purely academic.

    • Alexander Norris says:

      @Vinraith — you assume you can’t streamline without losing complexity, which is wrong. All systems have needlessly clunky or badly-worded mechanics that can benefit from streamlining. Streamlining is good; streamlining makes games simpler, not more simplistic. Plus, 4E is just as complex and rules-heavy as all the previous editions of D&D; it’s just lost the stupid reliance on rolling on random table for a more narrativist approach to roleplaying.

      There was more to this post but I’m exhausted and can’t think straight, so I’ll try to piece it together tomorrow.

    • Vinraith says:

      @Alexander

      Streamlining, by definition, is losing complexity. Sometimes that complexity is needless, awkward, and unproductive, and in those cases streamlining is certainly good. I think we’re running into a problem of definitions, here. I tried to make it clear that streamlining is not always bad, in many cases losing complexity does not mean losing depth, and in those cases it’s very much a good thing. I’m not convinced one way or another with regards to 4E, nor do I need to be since (as I mentioned) I doubt I’ll ever ave a chance to play it.

    • Nick says:

      I thought it was because they had to change enough things to justify a new release of a new edition, thus earn more money.

    • Nick says:

      And yeah, it is funny that it effects PC gaming more, especially as I felt the 2nd edition was well suited to PC games as all the rolling and whatnot was done quickly behind the scenes, letting you enjoy the more rigid character classes and definitions between them. If thats your thing of course (it is mine, I dislike the 3rd edition class system).

  22. Vinraith says:

    Ah sweet, nourishing nostalgia. I hardly get a chance to play board games and PnP RPG’s anymore, but quite a few of my fondest gaming memories involve them. I’m glad to see PC gaming’s immediate forebears getting some weekly attention on the sight, well played RPS!

  23. leeder_krenon says:

    a perfect addition to the RPS crew.

    • leeder_krenon says:

      eurogames: i have trouble playing many games with people that like to play these. the games are ok. it’s just the people they attract that cause me strife.

      ameritrash: i only know a few people who a) like boardgames and b) are fun – i play ameritrash with these people

      wargames: this is pretty much the only kind of game i own, but lately the only one i seem to play is twilight struggle (this game is not about vampires)

      boardgames, with the right people, fucking rule.

  24. Nick says:

    I used to play Hero Quest every Easter and Christmas at my Grandmothers house, my uncle would be staying there those holidays and he was the Evil Wizard, I was the barbarian (my uncle insisted on calling him Arnie) and the wizard, my dad the Dwarf (or shortarse, as he was known) and my sister the Elf. We made our way through the various expansions, slow but surely (there were other games to play too.. like an old 1958 edition of Careers, Cluedo and Flutter) until we reached the Ogre Horde. Which killed us all on the first map.

    Somehow, we never played it again and since my Grandmothers dead last year I doubt I will ever even play a boardgame again unless I can find someone to play with, as those were the only occasions when I still did.

    Thinking about it makes me very sad. It also makes me want to play Careers again cause that was a damn good game, but it won’t be the same if I can’t go uranium prospecting.

  25. Trollface says:

    I jizzed my pants in excitement.

  26. Fede says:

    You love Monopoly? How could/dare you? I cannot think of anything closer than Monopoly to Fucking Ludo (as Kieron would call it)!

    Anyway, I love board games, thanks Rab and RPS for this awesome weekly column :)

    • Malagate says:

      @Fede, I would take Monopoly any day over FUCKING LUDO. I watched some twats I would otherwise call “friends” play sodding ludo for over 3 hours before anyone managed to win anything. Whilst a little bit hungover on new years day.
      THREE. FUCKING. HOURS.
      Monopoly on the year after was a comparative godsend, mainly because we didn’t care much about the rules.

      However, I would accept Ludo over the usual middle-class fuckwittery of a “board game” that usually gets paraded around in our group, the kind of shit that is descended from an unholy union of Pictionary and Charades. I don’t even know their names, suffice to say it’s the kind that come with lumps of putty, purple felt marrionettes, stacks of cards with words like “obsfucate” written on them, hourglasses and echa-sketch-ish things that we draw cocks on.

      These kinds of games are always brought out by either the busy-bodies or the single children, anyone who had any decency in their soul or sibilings would intrinsicly know that such abominations against humanity should not be unleashed from their purple and blue boxes.

  27. Scroll says:

    Dungeon Quest certainly sounds quite interesting. Seems right up my alley.

    I used to play a bit of Space hulk and 40k later on back in the day. I’ve recently dabbled in Table Top games over the last few years, there’s just something great about rolling dice.

    • Chris D says:

      Dice are a cruel and fickle mistress but somehow I just can’t stay away. In other news: Board games are awesome, Rab is awesome, RPS is awesome and this is an epic win. But you knew that already.

    • Scroll says:

      In fact I even enjoy the sound of rolling dice, it’s almost better then knowing the result of dice roll.

  28. Dreamhacker says:

    I approve of this “column” or what it’s called in Web 2.0! PnP RPG’s for everyone! :)

  29. misterk says:

    prefering monopoly to risk? Bah, risk is much better at doing what its trying to do than monopoly is. They’re both bloody awful. And dissing eurogames, the world of Puero Rico, el Grande, Dominion and chicago express is just plain heresy. HERESY

  30. Grandstone says:

    @Out Reach

    If you really insist on playing War on Terror, make sure you know all of the rules back-to-front and that you play with more than two other people, or else the other two will use all the paper in the “secret message” notepad making fun of how dead you are in their nonsensical alliance against you.

    Not that I took it personally or anything.

  31. Lilliput King says:

    Great column.

  32. Skippy says:

    Although Robert’s taste in boardgames appears to be almost the polar opposite of mine, I am incredibly glad to see this feature.

  33. Zinic says:

    I spot HeroQuest.

    You sir, have my respect.

  34. Radiant says:

    But… but where do I plug in the keyboard and mouse?

    Ok I want to get into these board games so I need one that fits these criteria:

    1) Entry level.
    2) Fun
    3) PRETTY AS FUCK
    4) I don’t have to do any god damn painting.

    Tom Clancy based all his early books on boardgames [like Gillen did with Thor; don't think I didn't notice that!] and I, unfortunately, read the hell out of those books so I don’t mind war games but anything good would do!

    recommendations?

    • Ignorant Texan says:

      Well, it’s not Clancy, but Harold Coyle’s Team Yankee had a pretty decent and very accessible Yanks vs Soviets tanker wargame ‘inspired’ by it. Unlike Clancy, Coyle’s ‘good’ Ivans weren’t traitors. Plenty of heroes and fuck-wads on both sides in his books.

  35. blunders says:

    I was excited to read this until I arrived at the portion where Mr. Florence dismissively wrote off most of Reiner Knizia’s games and claimed that it’s hard to be passionate about German-style board games. Sorry, I don’t think this column will be for me, but I appreciate RPS expanding its coverage.

  36. Mike B. says:

    “Everyone was dead a turn later, because the dungeon hates laughter.”

    That sums up Dungeonquest beautifully!

    Just when you thought RPS couldn’t get any better, along comes Rob (ZAA OOH ZAA!). Board games are awesome and I’m glad to see they are getting time here at RPS now. Everyone needs to know of the awesomeness of board games.

    To those that think they have nobody to play games with, I encourage you to find a local gaming store or poke around on BoardGameGeek. I can almost promise you’ll find a local community of gamers you had no idea existed. I’m constantly amazed at how many people I meet actually are into board games, including more modern stuff.

    Get some cardboard on the table, people!

  37. Frozenbyte says:

    Rab! You are most welcome here.

  38. JoeX111 says:

    God I have to buy this now. Thank goodness I just got paid.

  39. Malawi Frontier Guard says:

    Thanks.

    Just thanks.

  40. President Weasel says:

    I heartily approve of this new boardGaiden column.

    Things I have played eurogames of:

    Setting up a metro system in Paris
    Being a tribe of paleolithic hunter/farmers
    Becoming a Sultan (I think)
    Various different railway games about railways
    Being a farmer and expanding my shack
    Being a prohibition gangster
    Becoming rich in a goldrush town, a bit like Deadwood with less swearing or Lovejoy.
    Being an Inca (or was it a mayan, I can’t remember)
    Something about being a Roman and trying to make money before Rome fell, or something

    And many, many, many more.

    A game I played recently and really enjoyed was Tales of the Arabian Nights; while it doesn’t have the “economic engine” component of most of the German-style games it doesn’t have bolters or lots of little markers representing hussars or panzer regiments either, so it’s probably closest to a Eurogame.
    Where do stuff like Formula De and Powerboats, and that sled dog racing game, and stuff like Hey That’s My Fish fall? Casual games? Are casual games despised by serious boardgamers the same way many video gamers affect to despise casual games?

    I once played Twilight Imperium for eleven hours. That and those train games should really just be on the PC, so all that messing about with dice and counting bits of track (and tech trees, in twilight imperium, tech trees for gods sake) can be avoided.

    • ohnoabear says:

      The best example of eurogame synergy between game mechanics and theme is the German game Die Macher, about German electoral politics. Mostly because I’m pretty sure actually running for office in Germany is less complex and more enjoyable than playing Die Macher.

  41. Brendan Caldwell says:

    I don’t really play a lot of board games (I played Agricola t’other week against my housemates – farming! Dark Ages! Sheep!) but blimey if that wasn’t a good column.

  42. bigredrock says:

    Great article, and a welcome addition to RPS.

    Me and my son are enjoying Castle Ravenloft a lot at the moment – are you going to cover it at some point?

  43. Pantsman says:

    All my friends at Uni are in the computer science or math departments and are into boardgames of all three flavours, so of course I’ve been dragged into the hobby as well. Which is not to say I’m not happy about it. All I’d really played before was Fucking Risk, so discovering that there’s a whole world of actually really good boardgames has been a delight, especially since I’ve no shortage of people to play with. I look forward to reading this column regularly.

  44. Burc says:

    Tsk.
    The only REAL fans are the ones that play the original.

    By which I mean the Swedish game “Drakborgen” [the dragoncastle] from 1985 that GW licensed to release in english in 1987. Me and my friends regularly play on a board from the eighties that is so worn down it has to be handled like the dead sea scrolls.
    We revere it like its the arc of the fucking covenant.

    By this point, the High-score list we keep is impossibly epic.

    By the way, I heard rumors that there is some synergy going on with this and the megahuge coop-game Descent. Truth?

  45. mod the world says:

    YESSSSSSSSSSSS!
    I was about to suggest to give some attention to boardgames too, and what happens? WHAT? THIS!

    Kids, boardgames are awesome. You invite friends and play together, let me explain: it is like a LAN-party, but without PCs!

  46. Thristhart says:

    I like the column, but I have a question.

    Why are you fine with doing articles on board games but not console games? I understand saying that board games represent the predecessors of PC gaming, but there’s a much less tenuous connection between consoles and PC gaming than to board games.

    Not that I want RPS to do articles on consoles. Just wondering aloud.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Board games are basically PC games.

      Basically.

      KG

    • leeder_krenon says:

      console gamers can’t read.

    • MarkSide says:

      Yeah, and you can totally play board games on your PC. Though, admittedly, I had to turn my case on it’s side to do this.

    • President Weasel says:

      I spent most of my day playing Blood Bowl on my PC.

    • DrGonzo says:

      You can play Risk on your Xbox.

    • Hidden_7 says:

      I always read the RPS “PC-only” mandate as a sort of following the niche stuff. That is, on general game sites that follow all systems, PC games tend to get less and less coverage these days. When they do get coverage, it’s mostly just multiplatform titles. Since it would seem that a lot of interesting PC games weren’t getting covered by multiplatform sites, RPS was created to fill a need that wasn’t being met by the current game-journo marketplace.

      As such, boardgames, being niche themselves, sort of fill the PC spiritual place as an area where interesting things are going on, but that aren’t covered very well. You can’t shake a stick on the gaming internet without running into console coverage.

      That’s my interpretation anyway. Adding console coverage to RPS would dilute its focus, while boardgames are already within its remit (spiritually, at least)

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Hidden7: Basically, yeah. That Rab wanted to do a column on them is the other part of the equation. Who can say no to Rab?

      KG

  47. Mort says:

    Oh man, oh man, board games on RPS? My life has become complete. I will throw myself onto the internets and die impaled upon a sheaf of fibre, the glowing cables thrust through my heart.
    Eurogames=fantastic, even this close to the land of Ameritrash (Canada doesn’t produce many board games, sadly). As are some American games, such as the epic and spectacularly poorly ruled Twilight Imperium. It took my friends and I a good five days of reading to understand the basic rules with an early edition rule book, and even then it took two or three games before we fully understood how it worked. One thing the Europeans (read: Germans) do well is writing rules. And simplicity, in the pure form of Dominion.
    Race for the Galaxy is my current obsession. Each new expansion makes it a more complete and perfect game, although they also complicate it further and make it ever harder to introduce new people to its beauty. A good trainer for playing in real life can be found in the, which now supports multiplayer. Yee-haw! Board games with virtual friends!

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      I’ve had that downloaded for a week and want to actually read the manuals to work out how to actually play. Man!

      KG

    • Mort says:

      So worth it. The game is relatively simple (the production/consumption mechanisms are the most complicated, really), but the cards take a fair bit of time to get all used to. I recommend playing first with all the expansions off, otherwise you’ll be overwhelmed with a bajillion cards and things like planetary takeovers. But really, playing it over and over again is the only way to learn – it takes many games to start to get a feel for what different combinations of cards work as a strategy.
      If you need a person to play multiplayer against (I haven’t used the AI in a long time, since way before there was multiplayer, so I will be learning the computerized version as well), I’m down whenever the time difference allows. That goes for anyone wanting to learn the game – adam dot gilg roundabouts gmail dot com.

    • TimA says:

      Looks really interesting (and complicated!). I’d be up for a game if more people want to learn to play as well, great. I’ll send you an email.

  48. Dozer says:

    Rab, great first column! Shame it’s also your last column.

    “Hello. Every Saturday, from now until the day you die, I’m going to be here to talk to you about board games.”

    +

    “YOU ARE DEAD!” about a bazillion times

    =

    today we died, today is the last column you write

    :-(

  49. Tom Davidson says:

    Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, Ticket to Ride, Tsuro, and Pillars of the Earth are all pretty, entry-level games.

  50. pupsikaso says:

    I’d have gotten into board games more if only I had friends that played them. Why must the best fun sometimes be so exclusive?

  51. rargphlam says:

    I too am a fan of the ‘Ameritrash’ genre, but over here in America we call those ‘board games that don’t suck.’

    Yes I just indirectly implied that Settlers sucks.

    The big one my friends and I play is Arkham Horror, with every expansion, aka the game so big you need a tackle box for all the bits in it. Nothing’s better than wasting an evening trying to fight off Nyarlathotep or Yog-Sothoth (Yoggie + Father Dagon and Mother Hydra as Heralds is down right stupid hard), only to die miserably.

    It’s the journey that counts.

    • Tom O'Bedlam says:

      Azathoth has been summoned. The world is destroyed

    • BaronWR says:

      I love Arkham horror: you start out healthy, sane and full of optimism and three turns later the world is ending, you are nearly dead and going mad and cultists are massing outside…

      Also, the fact that one of it’s expansion pack features the Arkham amateur dramatic society amuses me intensely.

    • President Weasel says:

      I’d far rather spend the time playing Call of Cthulu the RPG than Arkham, but my friends love it.

  52. James G says:

    Excellent addition to the RPS output. Been meaning to try and look at a few boardgames outside of the mainstream, but persuading other people to have a game can be a little difficult. As a result, my current boardgame experience is probably the equivalent of a PC gamer who rarely strays outside PopCap’s output. Very much ‘Social Gaming,’ albeit far more deserving of the moniker than some of the stuff that pops up on Facebook.

  53. jonfitt says:

    Welcome Robert, excellent post!

    I must confess that after a youth of 40K and (what I know know is) Ameritrash, I have been into Eurogames recently. I have my Carcassone, and my Ticket To Ride (Europe version is better), but most recently I found Pandemic.

    I gravitated to it because of its “versus the game” style. I have been seeking out 2-up games so I can play with the missus, and one where we don’t have to try and beat each other is good for everyone involved. It also went down very well with a group of friends.

    Is DungeonQuest similar in a way in that you can’t directly f-up other players?

    I have also enjoyed lively sessions of Munchkin in the past, but I put it to you that it’s not the best game to play with a significant other.

  54. Tom O'Bedlam says:

    Boardgames? Rab? RPS?

    Perfect.

    I defy anyone to not enojy Agricola.

    • Edgar the Peaceful says:

      Yes indeed – and it’s a great solo experience too. A complex and elegant solitaire. A great way to spend an hour gaming but away from the screen and fondling bits of wood.

  55. echomateria says:

    @pkt-zer0
    Where did you get the idea that “board games tend to be rather expensive”?

    Aside from a few boardgames that come with hundreds of miniatures they are actually cheaper than video games. For example at Amazon Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty that you mentioned is $59.13 while DungeonQuest is $48.70…

    • rargphlam says:

      Only thing that gets expensive in board game land is the monsters with multiple board expansions.

      Like for example a full copy of Arkham Horror (base + 3 board expansions and 4 card expansions) will set you back by $240 if you buy from the right places.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      The mention of Starcraft 2 was tongue-in-cheek, not a serious example. Still, I only spend that much on a game every 5 years or so, good thing Blizzard don’t develop games that fast. I normally wait for price drops, which isn’t really an option for board games. But even ignoring that, the ones I’ve looked at were never cheaper than 70 bucks when all is said and done. Maybe I’m simply unlucky enough to be interested in the expensive ones, haha.

    • leeder_krenon says:

      in the UK, board games are hideously expensive. dungeon quest is £42ish plus postage. starcraft 2 is £35ish plus no postage.

  56. DuncanFx says:

    Rab and board games on RPS – welcome news indeed! Plus a mention of Thunder Road – one of my early boardgaming faves.

  57. sendmark says:

    Rab on RPS, great stuff and great start :)

  58. Skurmedel says:

    Will you ever write about Dominion… pleeease.

  59. Leo272 says:

    Excellent article Rob. Excellent timing too. My best mate has recently expressed an interest in boardgaming, so I can point him here and leave him in your safe hands.

  60. Mitthrawn says:

    My dad has a huge collection of old Avalon Hill board games- so I was raised to love board games. Games like History of the World and Rail Baron. These games don’t really fit into those categories, though I guess they skew more toward the euro games (for Rail Baron) and wargames (for history of the world). I’d like to see Robert talk about avalon hill games, cause some of them are really good, I’d also like to see him talk about my favorite card game of all time, Lunch Money. So much fun.

  61. Froibo says:

    Yay! Boardgames!

  62. Stony says:

    Throwing a few recommendations out:

    Tales of Arabian Nights is more about seeing what stupid/funny stuff happens to your friends than winning. I’ve seen a player be sex-changed, transformed into a beast, become a beggar, meet a Sultan – who then threw them in jail – and be crippled – twice – but still win the game.

    Pandemic is the a fantastic game where the players work co-operatively to save the world from diseases, represented by coloured cubes. Has led to one of my regular gaming group excitedly exclaiming that we were in a precarious position and had to “get rid of the blacks” in a crowded pub before, which was a bit unfortunate. Shadows Over Camelot is another good co-operative game, where one of the players may be a traitor working against the others. And Battlestar Galactica is that same basic concept, but takes twice as long to play and is surprisingly dull.

    Through the Ages is much more of an acquired taste than the previous two, as it’s complex, deep, engrossing, and a vague abstract approximation of the Civilisation games. Probably my favourite game of all time, but you’ll need to find at least one other player who’s prepared to spend the time learning it. That said it’s way simpler than most of the wargames like Hannibal.

    Railways of the World, based on the Railroad Tycoon game, is aces and well worth playing. It combines the twin joys of building up a bustling railroad empire and simultaneously shafting your friends wherever possible. Oh, I just blocked the last exit out of New York that your strategy relied upon? Terribly sorry.

    Finally, people will often bang on about Settlers of Catan and Ticket to Ride being good “gateway” games (a term I’ve never really agreed with, as the horrendously over-complicated Arkham Horror is what got me hooked), but I find them a bit dull. Carcassonne, another oft-recommended gateway game, is great though, as there’s surprising scope for player interaction underneath its simple rules.

    As a general recommendation for people looking to get into board games, or looking to get other people hooked, you can’t go far wrong with Pandemic. It’s the closest thing I’ve seen to a sure-fire guaranteed hit, and only takes about an hour to play.

    • icupnimpn2 says:

      Great, now what will he write about?

    • President Weasel says:

      I was the master of the dull result in Tales of the Arabian Nights for a couple of games. My mates took the piss out of what my stories of adventure would be like when I got back to my home town:
      “I saw an enchanted house with a hundred rooms… I didn’t go in”
      “I found an enchanted river and had a drink… it was quite refreshing”
      “I was caught in a terrible storm… but I was ok”
      “I gave money to an old beggar… he said thanks”

    • Skippy says:

      I disagree about Battlestar being Shadows Over Camelot done worse. It’s much more complicated, yes, and possibly needlessly so in some areas, but this does prevent the same-ness you get after a couple of games of Shadows from kicking in. It also means there’s a lot more ways for the traitor to screw you over without being obviously the traitor, meaning more tension and more fun.

      Does take forever to play, though, yes. Bring a sleeping bag.

    • Stony says:

      I really wanted to like Battlestar, but I’ve played it a couple of times and it’s just fallen a bit flat. In the 1st game I played, the Cylon had to reveal himself in the second phase (due to 4 player rules I think), and in the 2nd I drew something like 4 cards that allowed me to look at another player’s loyalty card, so the 2 Cylons were ferretted out quickly. And when you know who the Cylons are, and all the suspicion and meta-gaming has gone, you find that there’s not much to the actual game. It doesn’t have much of Pandemic’s co-op fun and discussion because there’s usually only 1 or 2 rooms that make sense to visit, so it feels like going through the motions, which take forever because of the constant skill checks and ship moving.

      Well that got a bit rant like, but I really wanted, and still want, to like the game – it just hasn’t worked for me so far.

    • Skippy says:

      Ah, yeah, bad luck there. I’ve never had a game in which we were absolutely sure who the Cylons were until it was too late, but if it became apparent that early I’d probably suggest just starting over. More powerful traitors is a difference between Battlestar and Shadows that I really enjoy, but it would certainly make for a dull game without anyone working against you.

  63. Navagon says:

    The new Dungeon Quest sounds like an improvement. You’re always going to piss off the old school fans no matter what the change.

    Space Hulk – ah, the memories. Some great games in that picture.

  64. delusionsofnoir says:

    Just want to say that I’m very glad this and you are here Robert.

  65. delusionsofnoir says:

    Just want to say that I’m very glad this and you are here Mr Florence.

  66. icupnimpn2 says:

    Encyclopedia Britannica just can’t keep up

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Florence

  67. RogB says:

    great article, the missus was wondering what i was chuckling about and I couldnt be arsed to explain it.

    Although its been 15+ years since i last played a board game, I WAS a huge fan of space hulk/40k/most GW stuff.
    Sadly, I no longer know anyone that plays so the prospect of ‘single player’ dungeonquest and a re-release is pretty appealing!
    I was SO CLOSE to getting space hulk v3, even though it’d have just sat in a box, unplayed. Only the limited run (and the hefty price tag on ebay) stopped me from buying it out of sheer nostalgia.

    looking forward to more articles!

  68. kalidanthepalidan says:

    Seriously. When I saw this post my head a’sploded. Downtime Town makes me giddy. RPS makes me weak in the knees. It’s a dangerous combination.

  69. Severian says:

    This is so awesome, I didn’t even read the damn post but I’m so glad you guys recruited Robert to chime in on a weekly basis about paper and cardboard. I love me my boardgames and this is just another reason for me to love RPS.

  70. Demi says:

    I’m so happy about this new column! I’ve recently taken a fascination to board/card games and especially pen and paper rpg’s, sadly I don’t have many friends who would even be remotely intrigued at the idea of playing one. Now at least i’ll be able to learn more about the scene. And download some race for the galaxy.

  71. TooNu says:

    Rab, how you doin?
    You just made my mining op in EvE alot more fun with this so thanks.

    I’m glad you didn’t dissapear, aye, I know you’ve got a twitter going but DTT has been quiet, sadly. Anyway, thanks for making me a wee bit poorer because that is getting bought. It sounds a wee bit like Zangbang to be honest but an actual physical board game will be much more fun.

    Chaos in the Old world is still the best board game ever. I’m just saying is all.
    Cheers
    TooNu

  72. Demi says:

    This column makes me so happy! I’ve always wanted to get into more board/card games, especially pen and paper rpgs. So thank you RPS!

  73. Jonas says:

    I’m a Descent man myself. I’ve recently started up a campaign of the Road to Legend expansion with some class mates. Our last game of the original campaign was 10 hours long and I had the party on the verge of death throughout. It was brilliant.

  74. SuperNashwan says:

    Excellent article, somehow made even better at the point my brain started reading it with a Scottish accent. I just barely managed to not buy the Space Hulk reissue and get back into board gaming, this column could prove expensive…

  75. bildo says:

    Board games. Not pc related. Thats all I have to say.

    • Vinraith says:

      Yeah! What do D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, Chess, Europa Universalis, Settlers of Catan, or any other wargame, PnP RPG, or board game have to do with PC gaming?!

    • Nick says:

      Shit, well, that’s the RPS paymaster, owner and general controller spoken, guess they’ll have to stop doing whatever the fuck they want.

    • bildo says:

      @ Nick
      Calm down.

      @ Vin
      “What do D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, Chess, Europa Universalis, Settlers of Catan, or any other wargame, PnP RPG, or board game have to do with PC gaming?!”

      Well, these are computer games aside from PnP RPG – That’s a genre of board game, essentially. Saying that games are similar to each other is fine, but to put it on a PC gaming blog sounds nuts to me. Just don’t see the relevance where a PC isn’t involved in running the game. I mean all games are similar, but not all games are PC games. It’s like having a cooking show and then putting up a weekly feature of how to build a house.

    • Nick says:

      What on earth make you think I’m not calm? The response was nothing but an eye roll.

    • bildo says:

      @ Nick

      Calm down

    • Vinraith says:

      @bildo

      It’s not a matter of being “similar.” Most PC gaming was born of board and war gaming and PnP role playing, a column about these sorts of games is simply a column about the roots of PC games.

    • Malagate says:

      I like to think that if we didn’t have all those PnP and boardgames, the only computational games we would have would be simulations of various things (vehicles, sports, etc) and shooty-bang games. No classic RPG’s on the PC make for some very sad PC gamers ;_;

  76. Diziet says:

    I really really liked dungeon quest as a kid, I’ve even wondered about the possibility of remaking it as a game on one platform or another. It would suit one of these new fangled touch based devices really well.

  77. ntw says:

    two words – Die Macher

    got it, don’t know what the fsck to do with it :D

    with this article you’ve made another satisfied RPS-eer here

  78. Kloreep says:

    Great column, looking forward to your next one. :)

  79. RadioactiveMan says:

    Yay Boardgames! A great post and a great new direction for RPS weekends!

    Favorite Eurotrash- Carcassonne.
    Favorite Amerigame- Axis and Allies (its not like Risk, I promise!).
    Favorite card game that is kind of like a boardgame- Munchkin.
    Favorite card game that is just a card game- PIT.

    Will look forward to the next installment.

  80. Cian says:

    Woo! I’ve been optimistically checking DTT for updates the past few weeksas my love affair with boardgames has been going through a real golden period. Finding a pub with a nice full stock of eurogames to while away sunny afternoons and then discovering my german girlfriend’s family are massive boardgame fans has meant I’ve spent an excessive amount of time learning the ins and outs of all kinds of great eurogames. And there’s still been time for some (always excellent) Talisman and abit of PnP RPGs.
    Looking forward to more of your stuff Rab, and for more discussion in the threads to come.

  81. Commander Gun says:

    Nice new addition, but please add another genre to the 3: Avalon Hill games. These are like eurogames but than a bit more serious and often more abstract as well. Some of AH games are wargames (quite many actually), but a lot are not.
    My favorites are 1830, Age of Rennaissance and Diplomacy. Game most played at this moment is Imperial 2030, which simply is great (and not AH). Lastly, for anyone interested in boardgames, boardgamegeek.com is a must visit!

  82. MadTinkerer says:

    Warhammer Quest review please. Thanks in advance.

  83. Jakkar says:

    I am no board gamer. But this was just too entertaining a read.. I’ll be acquiring Dungeon Quest sooner or later, and reading later instalments with interest and a grin.

  84. Hanneswall says:

    Hell yes! Drakborgen is one of the most punishing and simultaneously rewarding gaming experiences I’ve ever had. Too bad it’s gone out of print. Again.

    Also, I spot HeroQuest! Good man!

  85. The Other Chris D says:

    I don’t get to play board games as much as I’d like, but occassionally my regular pen-n-paper group will break out a board game or two. I guess I’m a Euro-wannabe, as my current favorites are Dungeon Lords and Castle Ravensloft (4th Edition as it was meant to be played). Though I must admit that I love the game of Sorry! and always will.

    I will take issue with the insistence that killing players is a good thing for games. Maybe for really short games (say 30 minutes or less). If the game takes 2-3 hours to play and I get knocked out in the first 15 minutes, what the fuck am I supposed to do for the next 2 hours? That will simply make me hate the game and never want to play it again. I nearly knocked myself out of Age of Steam recently on the first turn (my stupid mistake, admittedly). The game lasted over 3 hours, and I guess I just would’ve gone home early pissed off.

    On that same note, I also prefer games where bad luck or a mistake early on don’t put you out of the game for good. I like those games where the guy that your sure has no chance comes from out of nowhere and either wins or nearly wins at the end. The more competitive the game is at the end, the better it is. I can’t recall which game this was (as I will never play it again), but the two times I played it I was taken out of the running very early in the game. My friend, who had played the game a bunch, basically said that there’s always someone that gets screwed over early and has no chance of winning…not so much do to with bad choices, but just bad luck. I’m fine with bad decisions causing you to ruin your chances early, but a game that bad luck can make unwinnable in the early stages is just poorly designed. The belief that you have a chance at winning is very important to making a game fun.

    Having said all that, DungeonQuest actually sounds damn fun…I just hope it is a short game for when I take my first step in and fall into a bottomless pit.

  86. Lobiency says:

    This was awesome – please keep it up. Having said that, I’ve always been interested in the thinking man’s board games but have never had a looking glass through which I can delve into. Are there any outlets or groups where an American (most certainly Ameritrash) PC gamer in (North) London may finally find a board/PnP game fix?

    • Blackberries says:

      @Lobiency

      I have no idea if you will see this, as your comment is a fortnight stale, but Orc’s Nest in Covent Garden is a fantastic little shop, brimming with board games in its teeny mezzanine. I’ve not looked to see if it runs any groups/allows people to advertise groups there.. You could try asking the staff?

      There’s also Leisure Games up in Finchley. I’ve not been but I’ve heard it’s a great shop and I think does run regular game evenings.

  87. Isometric says:

    Rab on RPS? It’s about time!
    So happy to see this happening because RPS is the greatest website that ever did exist. Brilliant first article and hope to see more like it in the future. Happy!

  88. Tetragrammaton says:

    Once again RPS makes me a happy chap. Bring Tim stone on as a regular (Along with the hard-balls stratagem ensorcelled goodness of which he is harbinger) and you will be my holy grail of gaming sites.

  89. JohnH says:

    Wow, this takes me back to my youth. This article reminded me of how much fun my friends and I had while playing this game around 1990. Lovely game that’ll kill you in a wink of an eye just like this article says.
    Now I got to look into buying this new edition. Thanks for letting me know! :-)

  90. thebigJ_A says:

    Oh, man, Heroquest! I remember Heroquest!

    I made my parents buy it when I was small.

    Then none of my friends were interested.

    So I made my dad play.

    He wasn’t interested.

    I never played board games again.

    But still,

    Oh, man, Heroquest!

    • ran93r says:

      Played the hell out of heroquest and then advanced heroquest, good times. Think they should still be dusting up the parents loftspace assuming they haven’t been binned, must go back and check at some point.

  91. Billzor says:

    RAB! BOARDGAMES!

    That is all.

  92. Pijama says:

    Great post – LOL’ed a couple of times, with great presentation. DungeonQuest seems like a blast indeed!

    The Hivemind knows well who to assimilate it seems… Great work guys.

    (btw, where is sir Tim Stone?)

  93. amishmonster says:

    Welcome, Mr. Florence! I look forward to more of these articles. Plus, you made me look up to confirm that “Cluedo” was what I thought, so I learned something new. Well done!

    Has Kieron ever exclaimed “FUCKING Cluedo” in rage? I think he should.

  94. Danny says:

    Interesting. Great addition of course, but this also makes me sad. There’s absolutely not a single soul that is willing to play the more interesting board games with me. I’ve got Axis and Allies lying around, and still have the HeroQuest box that I got when I was 11, but those games are just not appealing to my friends.

    Risk and Settlers is about as advanced as their taste goes. Anyone in the vicinity of Amsterdam willing to play? I’ll bring the booze.

  95. Tom Camfield says:

    Yes. More Rab = more goodness.

  96. chesh says:

    I dare say that Dungeonquest sounds like a straightfaced version of Munchkin, as far as the mechanics and turn structure go. I will definitely have to pick that up.

  97. MartinNr5 says:

    Despite the authors attitude towards eurogames I hope he will also talk about them as they are quite enjoyable in the right setting/mood.

    No matter how fun it is to get cleaved in half I prefer to sometimes excersise my thinking blob by trying to exploit the rules laid down by a eurogame.

  98. Matthew Downie says:

    Either buy a game or two and persuade your friends to try them, or try looking for a board games club. I’m a member of one that meets every Tuesday in Brighton to play (mostly) eurogames. The only trouble is guessing where your local club (if one exists) chooses to advertise. Facebook? Yahoo groups? Little notices pinned up on the wall of a games shop?

  99. Katsumoto says:

    Where’s the best place to pick this (DungeonQuest) up then? I’m sure it must be cheaper than Amazon (£60), but i’m not sure where to look.

  100. Gulag says:

    Do Dominion!

    Yes, I know it doesn’t have a board but still…

  101. apricotsoup says:

    Yay Rab’s on RPS.

    tis a good day

  102. Omroth says:

    Really enjoyed the fast pace of this article, and very much appreciate being explained some stuff about board gaming. To.

    Er, thanks!

    Now RPS, can you buy John Harris so he brings @play to RPS?

  103. Severian says:

    Love the article but a note of warning to other readers: DunegonQuest really is 100% random and the joy is in the story-telling, not the strategy. Indeed, there *is* no strategy. So please don’t judge all boardgames, or even all Ameritrash, based on your (possible very negative) experience with DungeonQuest. ‘Tis not for everyone…

  104. Edgar the Peaceful says:

    I sold my copy of DungeonQuest 10 years ago in a car boot sale for £5. What a knob. I’ve recently been rebuying 80s GW classics: Fury of Dracula, Cosmic Encounter etc. Have you seen how much Talisman goes for now on ebay? Too rich for my blood.

  105. Akirasfriend says:

    Rab Florence, a regular on RPS? Why didn’t this happen earlier?

    Great to see you on here, Rab lad, looking forward to more of this in the future.

  106. D says:

    That was damn well written and the most fun I’ve had reading an RPS article since.. well probably something Quinns wrote. Or Walker. Probably been a day or two.

    Throbert!

  107. Torgen says:

    Rab, due to this column, I will be hitting my locally-owned games shop tomorrow to buy DungeonQuest.

    Sudden, arbitrary death + pizza + beer = good times!

  108. Jez says:

    You know what’s bemusing about this article?

    The website is called Rock, Paper, Shotgun and yet he talks about Scissors, Paper, Stone instead of Rock, Paper, Scissors…

    Damn regional variations.

  109. Jackshandy says:

    Jolly good. Armageddon Empires has dragged me into semi board-games range, and I see this column is set to finish the job.

  110. Saul says:

    Ameritrash/Wargame cross-breed. And Chaos in the Old World is the unholy offspring of Eurogame and Ameritrash. And really, really good. And yes, I was also convinced by our Scottish friend’s enthusiasm.

  111. Alex W says:

    I like it, will read again (assuming you don’t pull the Disappearing Column card.)

  112. Nickbjorn says:

    Seriously impressed, I still play Dungeonquest with both expansion sets to this day even if that means forcing my wofe to play.

    Regarding the new edition, the question is, does it still have the Wizard’s Curse card, where all the room tiles are rotated 180? That is both the coolest and most evil card in any game ever.

  113. Grible says:

    Did you know Team Yankee was based on “The Third World War” an alternate history book by *goes to bookshelf* “General Hackett and others”. It’s basically a dry history book about a war that didn’t happen – Team Yankee is a novel set in that universe, it’s kinda odd to read the history book and then have yankee fill in all the human bits.

  114. AustinD says:

    I remember my uncle left me this game when I was a kid.. Did it come with a plastic dragon or am I remembering it wrong?

    Either way the dragon now sits staring out of the front bedroom window of my parents house. It’s feng shui, so my Mum says.

  115. Torgen says:

    So, went and ordered this from a game shop halfway across town, should be here tomorrow in time for me to start attending a Friday night gaming session again. $54 spend SOLELY due to Evil Rab!

    • Blackberries says:

      Rab is personally responsible for my spending £80 in the last couple of months, and indirectly responsible for a further £45 of expenditure. The brilliant bastard.

  116. MadMatty says:

    I stand proud and hail Chairman Zao as often as i can, too!

    ZaaaOOO! ZAAAOOO!

  117. Clayton H says:

    Unlike everyone else here, I have no idea who Rab is, but I fucking loved HeroQuest. I may go pick up DungeonQuest too and give it a whirl; sounds fun.

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