2K: No Minerva’s Den

By Jim Rossignol on October 11th, 2010 at 9:16 am.


A post on the 2K forums announces that we aren’t getting what looks like a pretty decent single-player DLC for Bioshock 2:

We will not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Tsk.

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112 Comments »

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  1. Anthony Damiani says:

    Man, I would be so pissed.
    I mean, if I gave a damned about this DLC.
    Or Bioshock 2.

  2. Spacewalk says:

    I’m not surprised in the least.

    • Tom says:

      neither i am.
      after the poor showing that was the multiplayer and it’s dlc i suspect they’ve corrently assumed this wouldn’t be a big seller.
      bit of a self fullilling proficy though. paid for dlc is very much a console thing. pc gamers have got it in to their heads that all dlc should be free free free, regradless of the amount of work involved on the devs part. blame valve.

    • tanith says:

      Blame Valve? I don’t know man, they are not the only ones who do such things.

      Egosoft would be the first company that comes to my mind. Now they offer really great support for their games, after realease.
      Even years after a game is out they develop new patches with bugfixes and more features.

      Some companies just love the pc (and its user-base) and that’s why the users love them back. ;)

    • malkav11 says:

      Incorrectly assumed. I don’t give a shit about Bioshock 2’s multiplayer, nor will I ever buy DLC for it. Singleplayer story-based DLC? Hell yes. Give me it.

    • Tom says:

      and you’d happily pay for it?

    • malkav11 says:

      Sure. Why wouldn’t I, if it were reasonably priced?

  3. Bungle says:

    They aren’t exactly fostering goodwill toward their franchise before the release of Bioshock Infinity.

    • Optimaximal says:

      Given that Infinity is being made by Irrational, whilst BioShock 2 was farmed out to 2K’s ‘Treyarch’ studio, it bodes much better.

      It’s still a bit shitty we’re not even being given the choice, but when you consider the multiplayer was a pile of rubbish, its attached DLC was slated & gamers have never been happy with GFW:L’s DLC system, it’s not surprising.

    • Fox says:

      While I don’t disagree with the point of your statement, Treyarch is an Activision developer. Bioshock 2 was developed by 2K Marin.

    • Delusibeta says:

      @Fox: I think he was comparing Irrational and 2K Marin’s relationship between each other to the relationship to (pre-MW2) Infinity Ward and Treyarch: the latter was widely considered the second team, so to speak.

    • Fox says:

      And so I play the fool. Good show!

  4. frags says:

    I have no fucking idea what would be the benefit for them to do this other than to save some money. Why make the PC release in the first place if this is how they are going to support the platform and potentially create a lot of ill will towards the Bioshock name?

  5. Dave says:

    Disappointing. I think 2K is one of the few publishers that still has the potential to be counted towards “the good guys” but it seems like they’re not too interested.

    • Memphis-Ahn says:

      I am unable to see 2K (Or Take-Two) as the good guys, they have been constantly butchering franchise after franchise lately. X-Com, Bioshock 2, Civ Rev, maybe even Mafia 2, not to mention Max Payne 3. One could even argue the 3D GTA’s are inferior to the 2D ones, but this is mostly due to taste. They also include some nasty DRM/stuff in some of their games like SecuROM and GFWL, although they’ve been improving on that end with Steamworks.
      The only remotely good (big sized) publisher I can think of is THQ. And EA has honestly been improving.

      All in all though, you shouldn’t see ANY publisher as “a good guy”. It’ll just end up biting you in the rear.

    • Brumisator says:

      Oh come on, you can’t really blame them for Civ Rev. That game would have been terrible on a PC! And we do get Civ IV and V. the REAL civ games.

      Judging from that one post alone, it sure seems like they’re just lazy.

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      Thermal Ions says:

      “Good Guys” ? Hardly, considering their blatant regional pricing rip off inflicted upon Australian and who knows what other countries.

    • Fergus says:

      In their defence, X-COM and Max Payne 3 haven’t even been released yet.

    • Premium User Badge

      drewski says:

      Civ Rev’s awesome. On DS, at least.

      Haven’t tried it on the toybox systems but then I’m not the target market for that.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Civ Rev was a good game. I don’t know why anyone would complain about it. And one could argue the 2d GTA’s were better than the 3d ones. But then one could be a complete moron.

    • Memphis-Ahn says:

      You sound like the kind of guy who thinks Sonic 2k6 was better than Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

  6. Larington says:

    Frustrating. Vaguely insulting.

  7. Out Reach says:

    No matter how many people claim this is terrible, and that they won’t buy Bioshock Infinity, how many people are still going to buy Bioshock infinity anyway :\

    This is the problem with gamers, we suck at boycotts, so the publishers always call our bluff.

    • John says:

      Presumably shafted PC gamers will just pirate the game instead, which will lead to even less support of the PC for that reason. A whole big downward spiral.

      Between this and Mafia 2, I’d say 2K have a lot to learn about handling DLC releases. Seems like a case of upper management making calls based on efficiency with no ear to the ground to understand the impact.

      Also: Infinite.

    • Urael says:

      If they read this thread then I’d be worried they probably won’t release Infinity on PC at all. A lot of grapes being soured hereabouts.

    • Premium User Badge

      drewski says:

      I’m not particularly bothered by this. I’ll still buy Bioshock Infinity.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I really wouldn’t mind if they didn’t release Bioshock Infinity. Nothing I’ve seen or read about it yet has grabbed me.

  8. Vinraith says:

    Hmm, 2K doesn’t want my money. I suppose that means they don’t want me to buy Infinity either. Oh well.

  9. Premium User Badge

    Ninja Dodo says:

    Pity. It sounded fun.

  10. dethtoll says:

    Equally insulting is Liz Tobey’s self-righteous attitude on that forum thread.

    • Urael says:

      Actually…reading through that thread…I think Liz does a bang-up job trying to maintain a civil discourse while a group of raging howler monkeys scream in her ear at every opportunity. Not sure how you’re getting ‘self-righteous’ from her – perhaps you’ve become confused between her and the other commenters?

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Have you considered he might be one of the howler monkeys?

    • Urael says:

      With a name like “Dethtoll”? It had crossed my mind, yeah… :) There’re some bombastic comments in the thread about reporting 2K Marin to the gaming press, and RPS gets a mention, bless their popular socks.

  11. 12kill4 says:

    I was looking forward to Steve gaynor’s work on minerva’s den.. Such a pity :(

  12. Po0py says:

    They kind of need to man up and do the right thing. The fact that the PC is always the platform that gets pushed aside. I think game critics should be more scornful of this kind of practice. Especially RPS. This is a site for PC gamers and the only thing that is said in protest is “Tsk.”

    Every now and then a game critic should actually be critical.

    • skinlo says:

      This is news, not a review.

    • Po0py says:

      Not sure what your saying, skinlo. Aren’t game critics allowed to be critical of decisions made by developers and publishers? The fact is that this happens all to often on the PC platform and hardly anybody calls people out on it. Alan Wake PC cancelled. Fable 2 no show. Those kinds of things. But barely a peep from sites like RPS. I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye. Maybe critics are scared of being blacklisted by certain developers and publishers. I know for a fact that Ubisoft used to black list 1up.com because relations went sour. In fact, there is more fuss on the message boards and various communities around the internet about this kind of news but even that doesn’t get reported.

      We should all defend the platform we love. We should stand up for it and stomp our feet and get in a big ol’ tiz about things like this. The more we do the less it will happen.

      Tsk!

  13. Fredrik Wester, CEO of Paradox says:

    RRRRRRRight.

  14. Simon says:

    Absolutely pathetic.

  15. SquareWheel says:

    I have way too many game companies that I’m boycotting because of stupid things like this. One more to the list, I suppose.. =/

  16. pakoito says:

    Also, no big patchfixes for all that PC bug shit.

    • Delusibeta says:

      @pakoito: Nor any PS3 patches either. I’ve heard complaints about that version (although not nearly as many compared to the PC version)

  17. abigbat says:

    I don’t understand this decision. Considering the content will be developed on PC, why is this difficult to implement?

    Bioshock 2 was actually a very solid game, and one which became noticeably better as it progressed (something of a rarity). A pretty disappointing move – it certainly guarantees that I’ll be getting Infinity on 360/PS3 in order to avoid this sort of nonsense in the future.

    • skinlo says:

      See thats the wrong attitude. By getting it on 360/PS3, DLC is even less likely to come out on PC. A better thing to do is simply not get it.

  18. mcwizardry says:

    They cited technical and timing issues as the reasons for not releasing this DLC which is about as vague as it gets. I presume the content is developed and running on a PC before they move it over to their console development kits so it’s probably ready to go. I’m really disappointed because this decision is completely arbitrary, there’s not a single convincing reason for them not to release the DLC and make money.

    • qrter says:

      To be fair, the “technical and timing issues” thing seems to specifically be regarding “we will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps”.

    • qrter says:

      Oh wait, no, Elizabeth 2k does cite the tech/diff thing for the DLC later on in the thread. D’oh!

  19. Rich says:

    “technical and timing issues” indeed.
    If it works on an XBox 360, then any technical issues in getting it to work on the PC should be minimal. If the technical issues persists, it’s because they haven’t put enough time and money into solving them. “Timing” means money anyway, which they’ve decided not to spend.
    All in all “technical and timing issues” equates to “couldn’t be bothered”.

    Good job I never got into this series, else I’d be one of the screwed. Still, as a PC gamer this grinds my gears.

    I understand BS Infinite is being done by someone else, am I right? Hopefully it doesn’t get this kind of treatment, as I actually have some interest in that particular roller-coaster ride.

  20. v.dog says:

    Two things: Is this the Publisher’s call or the Developer’s? 2K Marin is not Irrational (even though this is irrational). If it’s 2K itself, the odds of me buying in BioShock Infinite just plumeted.

    Second: it’s “Bioshock Infinite” not Infinity.

  21. Unaco says:

    “technical and timing issues”

    Technically, they don’t give a shit about the PC gamers… you spent the money on the game, and the 1st DLC(s), that were already on the disc. As for timing… the time has come for them to create another cashcow, like Infinite. If they were to release DLC just now, that might sate some peoples BioShock urges… and then, those people might not buy Infinite on day 1.

  22. N'Al says:

    Disappointing.

    Whilst Minerva’s Den wasn’t on my ‘Must Buy!’ list, I was certainly going to give it a shot – and, therefore, pay the developer/ publisher for it – once it had become available on the PC (the good reviews for the DLC certainly helped).

    Guess I never will now, though.

  23. John Peat says:

    How shambolic has your development system got to be to make releasing something you’ve written a costly exercise???

    At the very least you have a single code-base for 360 and PC (PS games may be rather different) so releasing for either is releasing for both surely?

    In other words they’ve not releasing it because they can’t be bothered/want to dig at the people who BOUGHT THEIR GAME – same deal as with DRM, let’s kick the paying customers…

    It’s shit like this which will eventually kill the entire ‘big budget game’ altogether – toying with your market like a cat would with a mouse…

    Sooner or later the mouse will just ‘go indie’ (ever see that episode of Tom and Jerry? :) )

  24. HYPERPOWERi says:

    Well, meh.

    After playing BS1, I didn’t have any second thoughts about giving BS2 a miss. I’m not excited for the franchise. Even so, if the dev’s build up some goodwill with the gaming community, I’ll consider buying their next title to show support. Not going to happen with Infinite.

  25. Premium User Badge

    Cross says:

    I never really did care for Bioshock 2. It was an obvious cash-in from the get-go, and the fact that we have a proper Bioshock game on the horizon just makes it hard for me to care about this.

  26. G8crasha says:

    Really, it doesn’t phase me. The console versions were never raved about, so I doubt the PC versions would be any different. No real loss people!

  27. Danda says:

    I had read good things about Minerva’s Den and I was willing to give it a try, but now I won’t have that chance.

  28. HYPERPOWERi says:

    Oh hey! Different studios.

    Well, then.

    MAYBE.

  29. Fergus says:

    I’m going to be the first to make the assertation that this is because they know that PC gamers have more brains, therefore wouldn’t be drawn into buying mediocre DLC.

    Oh yes, I went there.

  30. Premium User Badge

    drewski says:

    Yeah, that horse armour stuff really flopped on PC.

    • HYPERPOWERi says:

      Bethesda’s spurred me to say “neigh” to —

      I can’t do this.

  31. Phinor says:

    After receiving glowing reviews, I decided on making Minerva’s Den my first ever paid DLC. I guess that plan is now aborted. Now what else do I need to abort.. maybe few 2K Games pre-orders?

  32. Rii says:

    Well, this is disappointing. Bioshock 2 was a marked improvement over its predecessor in almost every respect minus ‘Would You Kindly'; which, to be fair, is a trick that can really only be pulled once. I’ve never opted for DLC before, but would’ve considered it in this instance. Oh well, that’s one fewer decision I have to make.

    • Urael says:

      Really? Bioshock 2 was better? Interesting. Now I may have to put it back on my ‘to buy’ list. A nice juicy GOTY edition, all patches and DLC included would suit sir nicely, yes it would.

    • Premium User Badge

      Coren says:

      Oh good, I finally found someone who agrees with me on Bioshock 2. The first game started out great, and its twist was epic, but it was all downhill from there. At least Bioshock 2 was enjoyable and interesting throughout. It’s a great FPS, no matter how you look at it.

      When I first read a review for Minerva’s Den, I immediately fired up the game to see if I could purchase the DLC, only to realize it hadn’t been released on the PC yet. So yes, I’m a bit miffed I won’t be able to play it after all.

    • Rii says:

      If I had to pick the single greatest improvement in Bioshock 2 over its predecessor, it’s the way the game actually makes use of its underwater setting. There are a couple significant set pieces, but also lots of little touches (like the airlock system) which reinforce the fact that, yes, you’re actually underwater. For all that water contributed aesthetically to Bioshock, for all the difference it made the game might as well have been set anywhere. Bioshock 2 goes a long, long way to addressing that problem.

  33. Rond says:

    Minerva’s Den? Bioshock 2? What are those? Maybe I’ll give another playthrough to System Shock 2.

  34. Premium User Badge

    Stense says:

    A bit disappointing there. I enjoyed Bioshock 2 far more than I thought I would and had been thinking about looking into this add-on when it was released. Never mind, guess it just means I don’t have to strain my brain trying to remember my GFWL password.

  35. rodint says:

    Seems an odd decision given minerva’s den adds little to gameplay and is heavily based around a new story set in rapture. It’s a pretty good too and not the complete system shock ripoff homage people were expecting.

    You get 1 new weapon (which is useless) 1 new plasmid (which isn’t) and a bigger focus on bots, turrets and hacking, other than that it plays the same as the main game more or less. I guess that’s why it got a mediocre reception on consoles which is a shame since the storytelling is better than Bioshock 2’s and easily better than any other DLC I’ve played.

  36. blargh says:

    WHAT? UNACCEPTABLE! HOW COULD THEY DO THIS T….

    Sorry, I can’t even pretend to care! :P

    I’ll be sitting here waiting for the *real* Bioshock 2/System Shock 4.

    • Urael says:

      I hope you meant to type “System Shock 3″ there. Bioshock might have been a re-run of/homage to/blatant copy of SS2’s game mechanics but it certainly wasn’t a sequel to that magnificent series.

    • blargh says:

      No, I meant 4.

      Sure, Bioshock may not have actually been as good as SS2, but it was a good remake or re-imagining with a different theme. I cannot not think of it as a replacement for SS3 at this point.

    • Urael says:

      Oh, silly silly person. Bioshock doesn’t feature the same setting or characters. You might as well claim that Avatar is the sequel to Pocahontas, or that GTA: San Andreas was a sequel to GTA: Vice City.

      Definition of sequel from Miriam-Webster:

      1
      : consequence, result
      2
      a : subsequent development
      b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

      Bioshock was a thematic and mechanistic cuckoo resting in System Shock’s nest, not a true sequel.

  37. Redeye says:

    I had the opportunity to get BioShock 2 for free. I do not own BioShock 2.

  38. Premium User Badge

    Eric says:

    That’s a real shame – after hearing good things about it on various podcasts and knowing Steve Gaynor was the designer, I was actually chomping at the bit to buy Minerva’s Den. Now I can’t. And since I have absolutely no interest in playing Bioshock 2 on the 360, I guess I never will. Well played, 2K. You avoided my dollars most efficiently.

  39. Zero says:

    If this is another consequence of the P-word, I’m going to be irate.

    Actually, too late on that count.

    • blargh says:

      Probably has to do with the fact (and I’m using this word very very very loosely, as this is the NPD we’re talking about here) that only 6% of people buy DLC, and that’s on consoles. I imagine there are even less people who would buy it on PC especially if it was only available through the GFWL Marketplace.

  40. Chris says:

    Minerva on the PC? Look no further. It’s probably better, and free.

  41. MadTinkerer says:

    This by itself won’t stop me from buying Infinity or XCom, but it is very disappointing.

  42. Ezhar says:

    I liked Bioshock 2, but I can never be arsed with DLC because it usually involves filling out 20 broken webforms, entering my credit card info in dodgy places, then ending up with some leftover rubbish points of sorts and a lot of buggy game software that doesn’t work or even download half the time. Especially since Bioshock 2 suffered from GFWL infection, which means all that and worse.

  43. rocketman71 says:

    I’ll remember this next time I’m going to buy a 2K game.

    BTW, 2K Elizabeth’s post are always chock full of lies, denials and BS. She must be the world’s 2nd worst community manager (yeah, nobody can reach fourzerotwo’s level).

  44. internisus says:

    I’m so tired of this crap. I don’t much like Bioshock, but I would have bought this reportedly good DLC in order to have the most complete single-player experience. What really riles me is how common this has become among PC versions of multi-platform titles; I’m still annoyed at Resident Evil 5 and Mirror’s Edge for pulling the same trick. Then there are games like GTA 4 that let us go on wondering and worrying for a year.

    It’s gotten to the point where you need to buy a game on PC in order to have the best version but then buy it again on a console in order to have a complete version. I appreciate that it makes me sound childish and entitled, but every time this happens it seems like… Well, we make an assumption on faith that we are buying the same product that is available to customers on other platforms, slight technical differences aside. To deny us this content is unethical. I actually think that it ought to be illegal as well.

    • Premium User Badge

      _Nocturnal says:

      Sadly, not a chance, Or they’ll have to make being thick illegal, too.
      Now if I could just think of some other games to spend my money and time on… Oh, wait!

  45. Count Elmdor says:

    Total BS and fail served up in a nice convenient 2K sandwich. I guess this publisher is endeavoring to be console only. Where’s RDR for PC?

  46. lolman says:

    They released BioShock 2?

    (Sry, still can’t finish the first one, boring as fuck.. reminds me of System Shock 2)

    • bleeters says:

      Let the outrage commence.

    • Urael says:

      there’s no outrage here. lolman is either a troll or an idiot: his wrongness is clear either way.

  47. Noct says:

    Somehow, I feel like I’ve fallen off of a Dinosaur Fence.

  48. TheLastBaron says:

    Hence the quotes. His point was that 2K Marin is analagous to Treyarch with Irrational being the Infinity Ward.

  49. danly says:

    Fuck, if you need to buy DLC for the game to be “complete” then you were ripped off in the first place.

    • dethgar says:

      Minerva’s Den is in a completely new setting, and has little to do with Rapture. It’s a game in itself really.

  50. Angel Dust says:

    I played Bioshock 2 on a mate’s 360 and found it to be a far better game than the first in many ways. If Minerva’s Den was greated with a warm reception, I was intending to pick the game and the DLC up for the PC because as much as I enjoyed the game on the 360 I greatly prefer the mouse/keyboard combo. Guess that ain’t gonna happen now.