By Alec Meer on October 12th, 2010 at 6:46 pm.
The one beneath the cut, I mean. At least, I don’t think he is, but I’m prepared to be more open-minded. He is talking about Space Marines, however – specifically what it’s like to shoot dudes in Warhammer 40,000 Online, an MMO still keeping the vast majority of its cards against its heavily-armoured, subcutaneously reinforced chest. This producer interview from GamesCom has only just been released for some reason; while it’s lacking new footage it does provide more detail on how the thing plays.
The picture remains Warcraft with shooting, by the sound of it. Hard not to summon the disposable spectre of Tabula Rasa when thinking upon such a concept, but surely Games Workshop at least are going to be that much more stringent this time around, what with Warhammer Online seeming pretty sleepy these days.
More soon, please, THQ. Let’s see how this sucker really plays.
For more details, read Quinns’ word-attack on another of Dark Millenium’s devs.
12/10/2010 at 18:50 Choca says:
When they ruin this, I shall show them what passes for fury amongst my misbegotten kind.
12/10/2010 at 20:05 mujadaddy says:
A moderately miffed missive to noreply@dmo.thq.com?
12/10/2010 at 20:16 Davie says:
COWARDS DIE IN SHAME.
12/10/2010 at 20:18 Davie says:
Dear RPS,
Please fix your screwball comment system. And add an edit/delete button.
Thank you ever so kindly,
Davie and the rest of the Internet Men
13/10/2010 at 18:20 Unknown says:
@Dave
Yeah, the reply system is sometimes screwed up too.
12/10/2010 at 18:56 TotalBiscuit says:
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
12/10/2010 at 19:00 Choca says:
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
12/10/2010 at 19:06 Danarchist says:
Mercy is for the weak.
12/10/2010 at 19:10 Feste says:
My armour is contempt
12/10/2010 at 19:13 Frenz0rz says:
A suspicious mind is a healthy mind – I also have my doubts that this MMO will be anything more than average.
That said, blessed is the mind too small for doubt, so doubting that this game will be any good with my cynical, pessimistic brain could be construed as heresy…
12/10/2010 at 19:22 Torqual says:
The emperor protects!
12/10/2010 at 19:57 Mad Doc MacRae says:
I’m surrounded by heretics!
BLESSED IS THE MIND TOO SMALL FOR DOUBT!
12/10/2010 at 21:06 Cael says:
A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
13/10/2010 at 01:21 The Great Wayne says:
Doubt forms the path to damnation.
13/10/2010 at 07:41 JB says:
=I=
The end justifies the means
=I=
13/10/2010 at 07:45 luckystriker says:
To slay is to pray.
13/10/2010 at 09:54 Subject 706 says:
THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THE RIGHTEOUS, SCUM!
14/10/2010 at 09:57 Cirno says:
WAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!
12/10/2010 at 19:04 AlexW says:
I couldn’t help but laugh. The faster he spoke, the more dramatic the music became!
12/10/2010 at 19:16 Eversor says:
If the gameplay structure is in the vein of Global Agenda, this should be great, because much of the challenge in there comes from your own skill, rather than only gear.
I’m going for an Act of Faith here.
12/10/2010 at 19:17 N says:
40k should be more like Bad Company 2.
12/10/2010 at 19:23 wengart says:
So many opportunities for Space Marines to punch/charge/grab someone through a wall. It would be great!
12/10/2010 at 19:18 TooNu says:
I think everyone here will not be suprised when this does turn out to be WoW with guns. Guild Wars 2 and The Old Republic are going to be winners, this will be a bit of a loser.
12/10/2010 at 19:38 TotalBiscuit says:
WoW with guns as opposed to WoW with lightsabres?
12/10/2010 at 19:55 Eversor says:
WoW invented MMOs, truly.
Personally, I believe “target and stand while pushing buttons” doesn’t really compete with “run and gun while dodging bullets”. Completely different games, even if people seem to think that WoW also invented bright colors.
12/10/2010 at 20:01 DJ Phantoon says:
Remember that Relic isn’t a bad studio, guys. They were allowed to take creative license with 40k before, and Dawn of War I and II were pretty damn good!
12/10/2010 at 20:09 mujadaddy says:
@Eversor
Turbine’s DDO does a fairly good job of showing what ‘run & gun” can be.
The real problem with a 40k MMO is that you really ought to start out as a Sergeant/Techpriest/Nob/Whathaveyou with a couple squaddies, and advancing should make you more powerful because you have more troops under your command. Sort of like an over-the-shoulder RTS.
12/10/2010 at 20:24 Shakermaker says:
@DJ Phantoon This game is made by Vigil Games, the dudes that made Darksiders. Relic does the 40K rts games.
12/10/2010 at 20:36 bob_d says:
@Eversor: Well, that’s the issues, isn’t it – as an MMO, which has to be latency-friendly, how much actual run-n-gun will there be? To a certain degree they can fake it, but then it’s easy to end up being “WoW with guns.” (WoW being shorthand for the typical, essentially turn-based MMORPG dynamic, since it dominates that segment of the industry, not because it invented anything.)
@mujadaddy: That would be an MMORTS, which would be cool, but that’s a different game. The gameplay and feel would necessarily be completely different. I think there’s room for both, actually.
12/10/2010 at 20:44 Nick says:
Well, its not like an MMO with guns has been done before (Anarchy Online, SWG, Tabula Rasa, Necron.. etc).
12/10/2010 at 20:51 mujadaddy says:
@bob_d:
Well, the conceptual issue is that no one’s ever really done what I’m talking about… What I *want* is the feeling of leading a small team of Spessmuhreenz at the vanguard of a huge planetary-scale conflict, but still having the personal touch of being the squad leader, aiming at single enemies, scrabbling for cover so we don’t get multi-melta’d, and having squad-mates as my extra hit points and special attacks. Not quite a straight shooter; not quite an RTS… sort of like an over-the-shoulder Dawn of War, where your “character” is eventually a tactically unweildy but dead shooty company. I might not be explaining it right.
Unfortunately, no one asks me anything, so you won’t ever get what I’m looking for, and what I think everyone would really enjoy.
13/10/2010 at 18:35 Hmm-Hmm. says:
MMO with guns? Why am I thinking of Brink here?
And that does really beg the question: when considering good pvp/multiplayer, are MMOs ever going to be able to compete with non-MMO fpses? If so, how?
14/10/2010 at 10:03 Cirno says:
Is it confirmed that you’ll be playing a squad leader with a small squad? That would be great. Trembling to play an imperial guard’s commissar with a squad of dozen of puny humies to shoot.
12/10/2010 at 19:20 Caboose says:
I know that it is but I want to believe. I want to hope that it will be GOOD.
12/10/2010 at 19:57 DJ Phantoon says:
HERESY!
Have faith in the Emperor!
12/10/2010 at 21:34 Patrick says:
THAT BAG OF BONES YOU CALL AN EMPEROR? YOU ARE AS DEAD AND AS USELESS AS HIM.
12/10/2010 at 19:58 utharda says:
What is your life? My honour is my life.
What is your fate? My duty is my fate.
What is your fear. My fear is to fail.
What is your reward? My salvation is my reward.
What is your craft? My craft is death.
What is your pledge? My pledge is eternal service.
Finally, crafting I can get behind.
right?
or am I going to be gathering space daisies, to make cloth armor?
12/10/2010 at 20:12 Mad Doc MacRae says:
IF SUCH IS THE EMPEROR’S WILL…
you will craft space daisies…
umm…
FOR THE EMPEROR
12/10/2010 at 20:13 Spoon says:
I feel like the only race that should have crafting is Orks. You know Ork crafting would be awesome. Throw every bit of junk you can find + red paint into a crafting interface, hit combine and voila! Wartrakk!
12/10/2010 at 21:29 utharda says:
God Ork crafting…
can paint EVERYTHING go fasta red.
12/10/2010 at 21:48 Temple to Tei says:
If EVERYTHING is red that doesn’t that mean that everything is going at the same speed?
Ork crafting stat would be ‘belief’ -I believe it should work, so it does.
12/10/2010 at 21:49 Temple to Tei says:
*sigh* Edit button please
‘doesn’t that mean everything would be going at the same speed’
Except for the ones with arrows on -they go fastest
13/10/2010 at 00:56 FRIENDLYUNIT says:
What about the Eldar crafting? That could totally work.
Also, we should take away that guy’s metal boxes.
13/10/2010 at 02:49 Spacewalk says:
Orks should be able to craft as much of anything as they want only each item has a random chance of exploding or some other failure.
12/10/2010 at 20:15 Wertymk says:
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded!
12/10/2010 at 20:19 Unaco says:
Pah! Black Templars? Can’t we have one of the original First Founding Legions/Chapters… or 4 of them, specifically Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels… the Classic 4 loyal legions? Unless they’re going to be using the never ending Crusades of the Templars… in which case, I hope any Space Marines suffer penalties for resting etc. without killing at least 50 Enemies of the Emperor, just to reflect their ‘dedication’.
12/10/2010 at 20:24 mujadaddy says:
Black Templars are the cool kids with hair in their face and black fingernails. Space Wolves? Ok, grampaw, nice “beard”.
Also, Death to the False Emperor! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
12/10/2010 at 20:21 substance says:
I LOVE the 40k universe and I’m, by no means, a fan of lore. I really hope they don’t fuck this up.
12/10/2010 at 20:24 Starky says:
I would sell my soul for an up to date remake of planetside using the 40k IP…
If this even comes close they will have my money. If they nail it I will mail them my soul – well a contract for my soul written in blood – or maybe tomato ketchup, as bleeding hurts.
12/10/2010 at 20:29 Quests says:
it’s gonna be the triumph of WoW cloning.
Kill me now.
12/10/2010 at 20:37 stahlwerk says:
I never “got” Warhammer or 40k. It just seems to be so… generic… yeah I know blizzard ripped it off with both its major franchises and many followed suite, but what am I missing? Where did it start for you? Is there a game or story or movie that one should have played/read/watched (as a kid?) that will hook you on it?
12/10/2010 at 20:45 Tei says:
Because the point of War40K is not space marines. The point is darkness, a war that will never end, pessimist, militarist, very dark decoration (skulls, an the like).
12/10/2010 at 20:56 mujadaddy says:
@Tei:
No, the point is NOT darkness, a war that will never end… the POINT is painting little models and then annihilating your friend’s little models within the rules.
I fear the current generation may never understand that. stahlwerk’s post reinforces that fear.
12/10/2010 at 20:59 stahlwerk says:
Hm, yeah, although instead of generational, maybe it’s a cultural thing, since continental Europe never was that big on miniature games in the first place, AFAIK.
12/10/2010 at 21:04 Bursar says:
A lot of the tie in fiction is a bit flakey, however there are some gems out there.
All the Dan Abnett stuff is solid to brilliant. Highlights for me are Necropolis for an excellent siege story with Imperial Guard vs Chaos, Brothers of the Snake if you want some Space Marine stories and Titanicus if you want some Titans clashing (and who doesn’t).
I’m also enjoying the Aaron Dembski-Bowen stuff. He’s only done three 40K books so far but all of them have been excellent reads.
12/10/2010 at 21:56 Temple to Tei says:
I laugh at your ‘tie in fiction’
Old fans liked it in the original rogue trader days when all the fluff was in one little hardback book
When even seeing chaos meant that the Imperium would slaughter the Imperial Guard units afterwards so they did not pollute anyone’s mind and even the SM had to be mind-wiped and re-trained afterwards.
The first fiction we had was Ian Watson’s take on the ‘M’ in SM meaning masochistic…
Stopped me reading any more of the fiction for years -currently on the Sabbat’s crusades.
12/10/2010 at 23:22 Tei says:
my friends paint miniatures and these things, I just read the rulebooks, I think are excelent gothic literature.
also the novels (that are like extended rulebooks, withouth the numbers tables).
after reading all the Gaunt’s Ghosts, and horus heresy… I have my own opinion about 40K.
13/10/2010 at 00:09 Bursar says:
I’ve got Ian Watson’s Space Marine. Bought when it was published when I was about 14. It’s a great book, which I am saving in case I go bankrupt and will be able to sell it on Ebay for a gazillion pounds.
I didn’t realise how rare it was until a mate pointed it out.
13/10/2010 at 07:44 JB says:
@Bursar – It’s rare? Cool, I should dig out my copy. It’s sitting somewhere with my copy of Drachenfels, both bought when I was about 14 too =)
13/10/2010 at 19:35 Bursar says:
@JB
Yep it’s rare, because GW won’t reprint it because they’ve changed the fluff. The Rogal Dorn stuff has been changed as has the way titans work,
Gazillions is obviously an exageration but i’ve seen copies go for over £70 on ebay.
12/10/2010 at 20:40 Lobotomist says:
Alec:
Tabula Rasa was a great game. As far as MMO goes it was hell fun to play it. The gameplay mechanic was so “tight” i wish to see it in single player games.
Why did it fail than ?
Bacause it was all it had. A good gameplay.
It had meager content. Nothing to do except fight all the time. Story made no sense. No crafiing or socialising.
Basically they did gameplay right but all else wrong.
So if WH40KO will nab the TR gameplay , than more power to them :D
12/10/2010 at 21:10 Gorgeras says:
Second this: Tabula Rasa was good fun even though some game mechanics didn’t make sense such as some damage-based powers being pointless because you couldn’t shoot and cast at the same time.
But when you get PvE that feels like PvP; it’s something special.
13/10/2010 at 00:24 DJ Phantoon says:
Right. The major failing of Tabula Rasa gameplay wise, was that if you moved while shooting, the penalties were so massive it wasn’t worth doing it. It should have incorporated dodging and what not.
13/10/2010 at 10:36 sneetch says:
Also, neither myself nor my friend (living 200 kilometres apart on entirely different ISPs) could even connect to the Tabula Rasa authentication servers. Their tech support was incredibly unhelpful, blaming everything and everyone but providing no assistance.
Played the Beta, that was ok (good enough to pay €20 or so a couple of months after launch just to play through the “free” month with my mate) but the shooting and moving was clunky and the missions weren’t exactly riveting stuff.
Hoping this is good, I love all things Warhammer and I’m a devoted servant of the Emperor, but I can’t help but feel I’ll be disappointed in many ways.
12/10/2010 at 20:40 Alex Bakke says:
A hundred thousand worlds, ten hundred thousand wars. There is no respite, there is nowhere to hide. Across the galaxy there is only war.
12/10/2010 at 20:49 Lack_26 says:
I’m still waiting on an X-Com like –Inquisitor– game, =][= rocks but it can take an age to set up and organise.
To die in His service is not death, it is duty.
12/10/2010 at 21:25 taikonaut says:
This will fail epically. Promised.
Maybe not subscription-wise, but all that I have seen about that abomination (and I followed quite closey) was completely diametric to all what the 40k universe is about.
So, please THQ, get lost.
12/10/2010 at 21:47 Utgaardsloke says:
An open mind is like an unguarded fortress
12/10/2010 at 21:58 Tacroy says:
Praise be to the Omnissiah for this glorious data inload!
Though if they’re really doing physics vehicles like that in an MMO, the netcode is going to be nasty as hell. I have some doubts that they will be actually able to pull it off, even they maintain the proper rituals of appeasement.
12/10/2010 at 22:02 Temple to Tei says:
And Deathwatch is now out in RPG form.
Anyone got? (I believe the americanians had it first)
Just a re-hash of Rogue Trader? Itself a re-hash of Dark Heresy? Itself a re-hash of Inquisitor?
Or am I being too harsh?
Got Horus Heresy collected visions this week, did not know people could actually do bad SM art (except John Blanche who can make anything look bad)
12/10/2010 at 23:42 Little Tohya says:
Deathwatch is a love letter to the Space Marines. And it’s not “Marines are awesome yay!”, it digs into the history, it shows you the mindset, the adversaries, and the sacrifices they make for the honour of serving the Imperium. It’s constantly showing you that, yes, Marines are worthy of all the respect they’re given through the Imperium.
Personally, I’d love to see an equivalent about the Chaos Marines, to really give them an enemy to properly hate for having everything that the Space Marines have, and then throwing it all away. That’s probably the biggest thing it’s lacking. But it’s a great book about Space Marines.
Haven’t played it yet, but Rogue Trader RPG is a lot of fun, and so I can’t see why Deathwatch would be any less.
12/10/2010 at 22:20 Hanneswall says:
An open mind is like a fortress with it’s gates unbarred and unguarded.
12/10/2010 at 22:25 Spess Mahreens says:
My face is my shield!
Even in death I still surf!
A moment of laxative spawns a lifetime of hairy seas.
12/10/2010 at 22:26 pipman3000 says:
space marines light their own farts. there aren’t female space marines anymore because the guys couldn’t work up the courage to interact to them because they’re shy and got nerd disease that makes them afraid of girls.
also space marines die all the time also they suck their muscles are just beach muscles saxton hale kicked all their asses while he was asleep space marines know jarate.
peace.
vote yes on prop 19
13/10/2010 at 03:36 Wandered In says:
Prime Arco-Flagellant material here, I see. The Inquisition can… use… heretics like you.
The Emperor gives us all a chance to serve, whether we wish to or not. That is his mercy.
12/10/2010 at 23:13 DrGonzo says:
I’m pretty excited for this. But aren’t those walkers meant to the size of cities rather than just quite big?
12/10/2010 at 23:51 Tacroy says:
Those are the small assault walkers.
13/10/2010 at 13:17 Surgeon says:
Yeah, the Warhound in that video is the smallest Titan.
Here’s a handy comparison guide for sizes :
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100226130011/warhammer40k/images/1/16/Godengines.jpg
12/10/2010 at 23:32 Dreadlord says:
An open mind is like a fortress with it’s gates unbarred and unguarded.
12/10/2010 at 23:38 pkt-zer0 says:
An open mind i’s like a fortre’ss with it’s gate’s unbarr’ed and unguard’ed.
13/10/2010 at 00:54 SAM-site says:
Planetside. Not, for the love of all things holy WoW. If you lack the imagination to come up with some original gameplay at least copy something appropriate.
This is a universe at war, not mincing around looking for the next level treadmill with a question mark over its head.
The only reference to WoW I want to hear is “this is nothing like warcraft”
/sobs
13/10/2010 at 08:50 Malcolm says:
That was also my initial thought. Planetside-type gameplay would be far more suited to this than “kill 10 snotlings”
13/10/2010 at 01:38 2ds says:
Looks just like tabula rasa
13/10/2010 at 02:35 DrazharLn says:
Vehicles are nice and all, but unless they have something really special in hiding, then colour me underwhelmed.
13/10/2010 at 05:59 RadioactiveMan says:
An open ‘ead is like a nob fort wiff da gates down and da spiky bitz broke.
I like mujadaddy’s idea, except, it NEEDS MORE DAKKA! WAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!
14/10/2010 at 23:56 mujadaddy says:
Well, obviously that was “an yoomee” perspective. Each of the main factions (in my mind, Eldar, Guard, Marines, Chaos Marines, Orcs… I suppose you need Tau in there, I just refuse to acknowledge they exist) would have a VERY different path of advancement, and some would have different specializations available, in the general mode of “Do you want dozens of underlings (Exarch/Commisar/Nob), or a few vehicles/massive personal power (Termies/Dreadnoughts/Psyker)?”
MOAR DAKKA actually gets translated into FEWAH HITPOINTZ in my mind. What would be WORSE than being able to take a few hits from a heavy plasma before going down? That’s just terrible.
In the grim darkness of the far future, there are only people who remembered to duck.
13/10/2010 at 10:11 destroy.all.monsters says:
Don’t know much about the IP but it looks way less static than the City of_ series. Might be fun. On the other hand nothing really wowed me.
Might not blow vs. “Boring Sidney. Boring, boring, boring.”
13/10/2010 at 16:38 Jwwiggles says:
SPARTA!!!
13/10/2010 at 18:03 The Great Wayne says:
Sadly, the question nowadays isn’t anymore about “bringing players what they want and not what they think they want”, whatever pseudo revolutionary developer might advocate, it’s about “bringing players what shareholders think they’ll be the most inclined to buy and pay for”.
The issue being: the reality of the playerbase and the economic picture are two different things, because it’d require the hard task to conjugue creativity and economic pragmaticism, which are often mutually exclusive as soon as a studio reach a critical mass.
More, it totally excludes any form of inovation, which we’re left hoping for indie and smaller studios to bring us.
Welcome to modern video gaming industry, where financial context pressure the studios to make the same game again and again. I could only ponder with horror where would we be if that happened in the 80′s. Would we still be playing pacman clones ?
13/10/2010 at 18:57 Hmm-Hmm. says:
Considering the man’s words and the footage shown, this is most likely going to, like Starwars the Old Republic, be an MMO which doesn’t deviate too much from the norm (which is WoW).
But we shall see.