Valve Announces Dota 2

By John Walker on October 13th, 2010 at 6:08 pm.

Surprise!

Valve have announced their new game. As expected, it’s to do with Defence Of The Ancients. But it’s not a remake – it’s a sequel. It’s Dota 2. (Except it’s a remake really.) The details are over on Game Informer, which is inevitably struggling with traffic at the moment. More details below.

The game is the work of Dota coder IceFrog, made from within the grey walls of Valve HQ. He worked on the more popular version of the original 5 vs 5 Warcraft III mod, DotA: Allstars, and was hired by Valve in 2009.

Game Informer reports that the core game remains almost untouched. So rather than a radical redesign, the changes here are more for the game’s tech. In fact, everything, from the maps, the heroes, items, skills and upgrade paths all remain identical. It’s a remake, really.

Of course it’s being made in Source, so it looks dramatically different than the ancient Warcraft III engine. And GI says that Source is getting an update with this release, with new lighting, and the all-important true-cloth simulation, the lack of which has been holding back gaming for years. They’re also building AI bots to replace missing players, and of course therefore for training, but not making a single-player game.

The intriguing feature appears to be how the Dota 2 community will impact upon the game. Improvements to Steamworks mean that there will be in-game rewards for participating in the community. Says GI,

“The idea is to have everything a player does in or out of game tie back into their online identity.”

This includes posting on forums, contributing to strategy guides, which seems to be intending to keep the community all in one place, and making it much easier for players to get into the game. And indeed incentivising other players to make that easy. There’s even a “coaching system” where veteran players can train newer players.

For all the details of how Valve is attempting to fix the issues of newbie baiting that plague DotA, and to make entry to a game that relies on experience and skill to win at, check out GI’s detailed article.

Valve says it plans to devote as much time and updates to Dota 2 as Team Fortress 2 has received over the years, so it could well be a game that evolves over time, and seemingly one whose evolution will be driven by the community of dedicated players.

It’s due some time in 2011. RPS has plans to find out more, even if it means conquering America, becoming Kings, and forcing Valve to tell us on penalty of beheading. UK STYLE.

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229 Comments »

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  1. Matt says:

    The article claims they are keeping all “100+” characters from DotA-Allstars. Does it really have >100 characters? How the hell is a newcomer supposed to jump into a game like that?

    • RC-1290'Dreadnought' says:

      Oh wow, you could actually load the page?
      I’m curious now!

    • Gentacle says:

      “Newcomer” and “DotA” is like oil and water.

    • Spd from Russia says:

      its for hardcore no-lifers obviously

    • Premium User Badge

      KindredPhantom says:

      By being coached by veteran players who will be rewarded for the coaching by getting in-game rewards.

    • AS says:

      It might have a little under 100 characters right now, but heroes are still being added to WC3 DotA. The coaching system will go a long way towards improving the flaws of the game.

    • Reefpirate says:

      I was ‘coached’ by a couple of buddies (lord knows I wasn’t getting ANY help from in-game teammates) but I still was at a loss. With so many characters, and so many obscure and unintuitive tactics (last-hitting? What the hell kind of mechanic is that anyways?? A very boring one if you ask me.), it takes a special kind of person to spend about 3 or 4 months learning how to play this game properly. I’ll stick with SC2 thanks very much.

      As an aside, I gotta say I’m disappointed in one of Valve’s “big announcements that you will like”.

    • BooleanBob says:

      “it takes a special kind of person to spend about 3 or 4 months learning how to play this game properly. I’ll stick with SC2 thanks very much.”

      Buh?

    • DrGonzo says:

      When you say last-hitting I imagine you are actually talking about denying. That’s when you kill your own minions and towers to stop the other team getting so much exp and gold. League of Legends removed this completely, which in my opinion is the best thing about it. It makes the game a lot faster paced and aggressive. It now requires more tactics, you have to push them away from the minions by fighting them to deny.

      I really hope Valve announce some changes to the formula. There is no way they can make plain Dota accessible. Hell I have about 300-400 games of LoL under my belt and about the same in Demigod, but I still hate HoN and DOTA.

    • Malkar says:

      Last hitting means… hitting something last. As in a creep. To get the gold. It’s a quite often-used term in League of Legends, actually.

    • Anthony Damiani says:

      Man.
      I have never seen a genre where new games were expected to have such a resolute insistence to the conventions of its forebearers. HoN was basically DotA, LoL pitched itself as as a spiritual successor, and DotA 2 promises ALL of the 100 original champions.

      I like the genre, but the tie to this particular game is a turn-off.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I know it is. I meant, you can’t really not like last-hitting. There is no way to remove it, the only other option would be invincible minions. But League of Legends over halves the amount of last-hitting by not allowing you to attack your own minions.

    • Nova says:

      There are 101 heroes at the moment.

  2. DeepSleeper says:

    Great, so they’re making a sequel that’s effectively exactly the same game, with the new feature that a guy can watch your screen and yell at you personally.

    After watching the LoL and HoN forums out of a vague interest in finding out what these games were about, I can’t wait to see how far up its own ass THIS community crawls.

  3. salejemaster says:

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaa……….\m/\m/\m/\m/\m/…..weeeesommmeeee

  4. Kirian says:

    It’s DotA in a new engine. That’s what it is. It’s Heroes of Newerth: Source Edition, minus the heroes S2 designed.

    If I was S2, I would be livid.

    • pakoito says:

      The most funny thing is all the DOTA fanboys stating that HoN is a ripoff now are wanking over DoTa2. It’s the same game! The same new features! Hell, we’re not even sure if you can reconect to the game if you drop!

      Also, hats.

      I’ll be waiting and will probably play it but…seriosly. Fanboyism.

    • Spd from Russia says:

      with this being on SOUCE engine I`m affraid it will be inferior to HoN feature-wise

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Why would they put it on the Souce Engine? Source works perfectly fine.

  5. man-eater chimp says:

    So now I have to reinstall Warcraft 3 and download the original mod to work out what on earth the game is. No bad thing.

    And I actually got on the site! Today’s a good day!

  6. Premium User Badge

    Schaulustiger says:

    I’ll be waiting for more details before I start whining. But my first reaction after reading “DotA 2″ was a honest “meh”.

    • Premium User Badge

      Schaulustiger says:

      Ah, I was finally able to read the GI article.

      “This approach means that Dota 2 basically is DotA-Allstars with new technology.”

      I’m not interested.

  7. Premium User Badge

    stahlwerk says:

    Huh, that’s a (not) suprisingly enthusiastic “preview”.

    “The enormous following generated by DotA’s deep gameplay is unprecedented”
    “Valve Corporation, the company beloved for its Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, and Left 4 Dead series as well as its outstanding Steam digital distribution and matchmaking platform,[…]”

    (emphasis mine)

    • TDM says:

      Speaking of the beloved Half-Life series…

    • Mike says:

      There was something coming up in that series that Valve should be working on instead of this, shouldn’t it…

  8. teo says:

    We already got 2 copies of DotA

  9. tomwaitsfornoman says:

    Insert anti-Gamestop comment here.

  10. Xercies says:

    You know i bet many people are dissapointed that its not Valve just doing what they do normally and try to get there games to be able to be played by many people. Thats the only way I would play this type of game because otherwise it makes the community vemenous.

  11. Sweefyt says:

    You have to be willing to look. There are several communities and IRC pickup channels where the infamous DotA/HoN drama is not tolerated, and play is loads of fun.

    Also, it is most definitely a remake. The Project Lead says quote “This approach means that Dota 2 basically is DotA-Allstars with new technology.”. Every hero mentioned is a hero from DotA. The map is identical.

    • Bloodloss says:

      You mean there are places where they don’t tolerate people being dicks to people who are new to the game? Or is it only for experienced people? Either way, more info please?

  12. Cyrenic says:

    I was guessing this was the route they were taking. Though I was really hoping they’d do something different and try to move the genre forward. The biggest thing being accessibility (all 100 heroes? lulz).

    I guess that leaves League of Legends to innovate in the DotAclone/whateveryouwanttocallthegenre space. They’re moving slowly but at least they’re trying.

    • jonfitt says:

      We’ve already got LoL, it’s great and it’s F2P. Do you see anything of interest in DotA2 aside from the fact that it would be managed by Valve?

    • malkav11 says:

      It will be pretty.

    • DevilSShadoW says:

      as a LoL player i have to totally agree. This is the 1st ever announcement from Valve that not only strikes me as not interesting but as overall shitty. DotA? Seriously? Could you at least change it up a bit? Maybe add some little Valve twists to the game? No? Fine, i’ll stick with LoL. At least they are doing everything possible to keep the game playable for newcomers (when i fist got into LoL i had no idea what DotA even was). Source engine and steamworks… BUT IT’S STILL DotA, meaning all those lovely chaps from the old game with their lovely ol’ OCD’s and foul mouths and elitism syndromes will move over to the steampowered forums. It will be amazing…

  13. Delusibeta says:

    While I’m also unable to get onto the site, I’m kinda of disappointed if it’s not covering any ground that LoL or HoN hasn’t already.

  14. Matt says:

    At least Source will finally get some lighting improvements and real cloth sim.

  15. AS says:

    As a lifelong DotA player, I’m excited for exactly the reasons stated in the article – the chance to build a community that’ll be able to positively help others in the game. It’s easier to try to help the willing than the trolls joining a side to deliberately sabatoge you.

    While there’s nothing new content-wise and/as I expect that most of the patches will probably be lifted straight from WC3 DotA itself, DotA 2 is serving as a proving ground for the Steamworks technology much like TF2 has done for a while with hats. And maybe shaping the Source engine to be have a preset 3D isometric view available for modders.

    I may not be the best player around, but I’ll certainly be signing up to coach the willing – it comes with a healthy dose of humble pie and realization when you try to explain something you take for granted, and try to remember how it was explained to you.

    P.S. Merlini is Zeus, Action-RTS is better than MOBA, even if only slightly better.

    • AS says:

      To expound on patches, Icefrog took on DotA:Allstars at 6.00, it’s now at 6.69 today and in a few months will hit 6.70 with a couple more heroes, balance tweaks and slight map edits to keep things interesting. Each 6.0x release is a “minor” release possibly with many a,b,c versions for quick bugfixes and the 6.x releases are the “major” releases – although that’s mostly to keep track, heroes and items tend to enter when it’s ready.

    • Fumarole says:

      As a lifelong DotA player[…]

      You’re seven years old?

    • AS says:

      Very funny – shouldn’t have left myself open for that.

  16. skinlo says:

    Having never heard of DoTA before until this was first rumoured, I think it looks awesome :D

  17. pakoito says:

    “The idea is to have everything a player does in or out of game tie back into their online identity.”

    This includes posting on forums, contributing to strategy guides, which seems to be intending to keep the community all in one place, and making it much easier for players to get into the game.

    RealID trying to get rid of the trolls again? yeah, no.

    • Delusibeta says:

      The problem RealID had was that you were forced to give out what you put in as your First Name and Surname when you were signing up for Battle.net, which was a bit of a security risk, especially for trolling purposes. The difference here is that I doubt Steam will force you to give out names, just your nick. And, to be honest, I don’t mind using my nick everywhere I go.

      However, logging in with my Steam credentials everywhere… yeah no.

    • Baka says:

      Seriously, where is this recent influx of ill-founded angry internet men coming from recently?

      Imagine the leaguecraft-guides worked into League of Legends, or direct access to elitist jerks from your WoW capital or whatever your favorite game and it’s favorite internetsite is combined. How is that a thing to complain about?
      What does that have to do with being forced to tell everyone your full name and therefore your home-adress etc?
      There’s really a lot of “I hate that new stuff is coming out!” going on in the comments recently. :/

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Don’t turn this into a political discussion.

      Just note that some people value liberty and privacy far far above sanitized speech.

    • Kevin says:

      Refreshen my memory about Blizzard’s Real ID: Was there anything to stop people from putting down “Rusty Shackleford” as their real name?

  18. Amanda says:

    Hollywood remake of a small, niche indie fil… I mean game. It’s a valid way of doing things, and if the original ain’t broke, why try to fix it? It’ll certainly find a much larger audience with Valve behind it.

  19. Rich says:

    My arguments that Valve are indeed innovative seem to be void with regards to this one. It’s a straight reimplementation.

    • Premium User Badge

      AndrewC says:

      There’s different types of innovation. Just as Halo 3 won an Edge innovation award for the amazing things it did with online while keeping the core game Exactly The Same, just imagine if Valve managed to find a way to make their DOTA have a friendly community?

    • Urael says:

      It’s ok, Rich. no-one was taking them seriously anyway. :P

    • Rich says:

      Oh, such rapier wit.

    • Urael says:

      Actually, I landed an absolute beauty of an Autism joke earlier. Clearly, I’m on a roll. :)

  20. Jon says:

    I love HoN but hate the community, I’ll be watching this closely.

  21. cloned says:

    Really looking forward to this one. Only played some HoN. Really enjoyed the game, but the community was really horrible ( I played Q3 for 4 years and I thought this community was bad in the end! ). But still not sure if I will buy it because you need so much time to get into :/

  22. Hallgrim says:

    Man I was really hoping to see some innovation from valve in this genre. LoL can be fun (needlessly steep learning curve aside), but I’ll be damned if I have a minimum of 30 minutes (usually > 45) to dedicate to a SINGLE MATCH of a competitive multiplayer game.

    • StenL says:

      How can you possibly say that LoL has a steep learning curve ? Unless you have severe mental disabilities, there should be nothing so complex you couldn’t figure out in a couple of games.

  23. Barman1942 says:

    Tbh, what really interests me about this is the Source engine updates. Every time Valve has released a new game recently, it’s been with some significant upgrades to Source. The AI director in L4D, the updates with Portal 2 (did Alien Swarm bring any updates with it?). I can see it all culminating in Ep3.

  24. the_fanciest_of_pants says:

    Mmmm.. Never was keen on DotA or it’s ilk. Valve will have to do something pretty special to rope me in to this.

    Also the thought of them releasing DotA 2 before Episode 3 makes me grind my teeth just a bit.

  25. TotalBiscuit says:

    The outright hostility to this extremely popular mod+it’s worthy clones is almost as funny as the hostility of their communities to people that suck.

    How often do we see complaints about games getting dumbed down and yet a game with a high skill ceiling and quite a bit to learn is shunned? Tell me, where exactly in the narrow spectrum of your personal difficulty desires should all future games fall?

    With that I’m going to play another game of LoL.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      How often do we see complaints about games getting dumbed down and yet a game with a high skill ceiling and quite a bit to learn is shunned?

      Ever heard the term “easy to learn, difficult to master”? Accessibility and depth aren’t opposites. DotA seems needlessly overcomplicated and not particularly deep strategy-wise, though I’m not sure if that’s actually true. I’m not particularly eager to try and find out, since that involves tolerating the community for a couple of months. The game’s more trouble than it’s worth, basically.

    • Quizboy says:

      How often do we see complaints about games getting dumbed down and yet a game with a high skill ceiling and quite a bit to learn is shunned?

      It’s almost as if – stay with me here – these were the opinions of different people and not the gigantic quivering fleshlump of multitudinous contradictory opinions we all know the Internet really is. What a world that would be.

    • Wilson says:

      @TotalBiscuit – I’d say it’s not the difficulty, it’s the behaviour of the community towards people who aren’t very good. If people keep losing games because of newbies they should complain and bitch about the match-making rather than attacking the weak teammate. Just because someone ‘sucks’, as you put it, doesn’t give anyone a right to be a tosser about it.

    • Lilliput King says:

      @pkt

      They’re actually quite deep on both a tactical and a strategic level. Very clever little design. Reminds of Street Fighter a little bit.

      I completely understand your decision re: the community, though. It certainly requires a thick skin. Sadly after so many years on the internet mine is positively reptilian.

    • Jesus says:

      LoL is rubbish.

  26. Kaiven says:

    Prepare for more TF2 Hats

  27. Snall says:

    Conquering America? You guys don’t even have guns. I hear you have padded trees now though, so there’s that!

    Also I think I’m like the only guy who never played this damn mod…

    • Tei says:

      Conquering USA is very doable, you just need to have a Good Plan. Also, If can’t be done in one phase, can be done in two.
      Don’t truth anyone telling is not possible. Do this. Get a very hot women enter a room full of enginers and make she say “I have a idea, but I think is imposible and no one can made it real”. “How you will conquer USA with the resources of UK?”. The engineers will launch to the idea like sharks. From there, you just have to wait.

    • Starky says:

      As a Engineer I fully agree with this, if a hot woman asks me I’ll figure it out somehow. Either that or I will make it up and lie.

    • Luckylad says:

      As an engineer I also endorse this message that we are great at fixing problems but even better at bullshitting into exactly what you want to hear.

  28. Lobotomist says:

    Cmmon people!

    They started developing this in 2009. How could they know there will be 3-4 copies of DOTA around by now ?

    Also. Can you blame anyone for taking insanely popular mod and turning it into a full pledged game ?

    I admit. Not big fan of DOTA myself. Its bit to elitist and hardcore for me to even start.
    But the game surely have following.

    • pakoito says:

      HoN, Demigod and LoL were around already by 2009. What they wouldn’t know was the impact of those games, HoN has grown big on comp players (the ones they want to steal back and will easily), LoL appeals to the casuals and Demigod failed.

  29. Lucas says:

    So its not a new game or a real sequel at all, not even a clone, just a reimplementation? That’s even worse than trademarking a game they don’t have any rights to. This is almost game-identity-theft. I’m really shocked and disgusted by Valve doing this.

    • Barman1942 says:

      You do understand that they hired the guy who made the original mod, right? And that he’s the one whose making this, right? You do get that?

    • jackflash says:

      lol

    • StormTec says:

      Looks like someone just read the title and skimmed the comments before posting…

    • skinlo says:

      Seriously lrn2read and use your head!

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      ohmygod! Somebody! Somebody come quick! Bill Gates is using the Microsoft name without permission! Oh no!

  30. Longrat says:

    Well that’s an anticlimax. I was hoping valve would bring some new flare to a stagnant genre (there really isn’t much more you can do to make it evolve at this point). Guess I was wrong!

    On an unrelated note: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/

    • Barman1942 says:

      Interesting blog. Is there any real truth to it? Do we even know if the person who wrote it is a Valve employee?

    • Urael says:

      Ooh, interesting. So there IS something rotten in the heart of Valve – I KNEW IT! Odd that this is the second whistle-blowing post I’ve read tonight, though:

      http://www.spacesimcentral.com/gaming-f20/guy-rants-about-and-bit-about-tor-t1317.html

      Hurrah for the little guys that speak out!

    • Cyrenic says:

      @Longrat

      I disagree. I think there’s a lot of space for innovation in the DotA genre. New game types, etc.

    • cyrenic says:

      @longrat

      Read the blog after my quick response about innovation in the genre. Wow. It lines up with everything I’ve heard about the guy. Though I thought it was common knowledge he worked on HoN for a while, and was declined a job working on LoL when he demanded huge amounts of control.

    • Longrat says:

      Well, I can’t say the guy is right about valve’s dark transformation, but I can see the guy is right about icefrog working riot and S2. I also heard rumors about his planning to sue S2. When you put all these facts together, it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.

    • Anon says:

      @Urael

      “That’s what happens when you go from being a shoe salesman to directing a game you didn’t play, isn’t it?”

      What a massive cunt. Even if the author of the blog is legitimately a Valve employee his arrogance and ad homs have pretty much nullified any point he was seeking to make.

    • Rich says:

      Well that’s Urael. Anything that suggests Valve is an evil Microsoftesque idea leach is gospel. Anything else is fanboyism.

      The idea that spotting something that looks to be a good idea and making it your own, by bringing new people into your team is innovation, is entirely alien. As I said, I’m a research scientist, and that’s what is done in science all the time. It’s not like the new people are going to be kicked out as soon as this is released. They’ll just be integrated into the rest of Valve, expanding their knowledge and skill base.

    • Urael says:

      FANBOI!!!

    • ed says:

      “something rotten in the heart of Valve”? You’d be crazy to buy into that blog post. It’s much more likely written by whoever wrote this: http://icefrogslife.tk/ . Looks like there’s at least one jealous\obsessive\stalkerey person in the DoTA community. Besides, the entire gist of the post seems weak. The guy has some experience working on other somewhat related games? OMG, it’s like stealing trade secrets! Pfft. If anything that experience would help him get the job.

      I seriously doubt someone would risk a job at Valve to besmirch the character of a fellow employee in some vague and trivial way on a blog.

  31. tim says:

    “Valve says it plans to devote as much time and updates to Dota 2 as Team Fortress 2 has received over the years, so it could well be a game that evolves over time, and seemingly one whose evolution will be driven by the community of dedicated players.”

    Yeah they said that about Left 4 Dead as well. I’m waiting a few years to make sure DOTA 3 doesn’t come out and then put an end to all support.

    • DrGonzo says:

      It’s not like a free add on just came out for Left 4 Dead 1? Ungrateful pricks on the internet don’t deserve the support that Valve give them.

    • skinlo says:

      Still but hurt I see. Seriously , get over it. Theres a real life outside of your computer.

    • James T says:

      “Still but hurt I see. Seriously , get over it. Theres a real life outside of your computer.”

      Wow, he’s talking about videogames on a videogame blog, what a loser.

      Good on Valve for their ongoing dedication to bug-catching in their old games, but after L4D, I have no reason to trust the “we’re going to flesh this out with new content, just like TF2″ talk. Fool me once…

    • Matt says:

      Don’t worry, Valve is pathologically incapable of releasing a game with the number 3 in the title, so you should be safe.

  32. DarkFenix says:

    Played DotA back when it was nothing more than a custom map on Warcraft 3. It was unforgivingly hardcore and elitist then, and has remained so to this day. Seeing the same thing made again gives me a huge feeling of ‘meh’.

    • Comment System says:

      It makes me said that DOTA got recognized while the superior contemporary mod, Tides Of Blood, faded in obscurity.

      Tides Of Blood showed me that a game of this sub-genre could be fun and engaging, I would never know from playing DOTA, which is like watching paint dry. I don’t have any faith in this IceFrog dude, but hopefully Valve can help him improve this game.

      It is also really weird that they are making money on a game mod that someone else created and then passed on to IceFrog for maintenance/additions, but I think that has already been discussed at length elsewhere.

    • Comment System says:

      It makes me sad that DOTA got recognized while the superior contemporary mod, Tides Of Blood, faded in obscurity.

      Tides Of Blood showed me that a game of this sub-genre could be fun and engaging, I would never know from playing DOTA, which is like watching paint dry. I don’t have any faith in this IceFrog dude, but hopefully Valve can help him improve this game.

      It is also really weird that they are making money on a game mod that someone else created and then passed on to IceFrog for maintenance/additions, but I think that has already been discussed at length elsewhere.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I’m disappointed too. I thought Valve would take Dota and make it more skill based rather than just about knowing all the stats. Was hoping it would all be based on skill shots and everyone having flat damage but oh well.

      As for making a game with IceFrog. Well Dota wasn’t the first game of it’s sort anyway, it dates back to Starcraft so I imagine that’s why it isn’t an issue. Also, the vast majority of the content was added by IceFrog I think.

    • AS says:

      There were a lot of maps released at the same time that managed to fade away, to the regret of a few. Tides of Blood seemed to have a line drawn in the sand with a final version, and whether it was the cause or effect of the end of Tides of Blood eventually falling out of the scene who knows. It’d be fun to revisit the old maps, but it’s hard to find someone that’s willing to play it, or reinstall WC3 just for a few games.

  33. Tei says:

    From: me
    To: All DOTA fans

    The world is giving you another oportunity to build a nice community. Is not the technology, is not the game, is you.

    Every decission count. Feeding the troll. Being friendly or unfriendly to some attitudes.

    I hope you guys have good luck and this time DOTA grows to a excellent community.
    I hope for you guys the best of the best. YOUR gameplay, with a EXCELLENT engine, and you guys (I am tempted to say, excellent people, but thats your decission, not mine).

    Good Luck!

    • DrGonzo says:

      Dota fans inevitable response. -‘Shut up fag!’

      Or something similarly stupid and homophobic.

    • Manley Pointer says:

      Kind of funny how most Eve alliances are just as elitist/racist/homophobic as dota players, but they get a lot less flak for it from the general gaming community.

    • Tei says:

      @Manley Pointer:

      My experience with the EVE community is that I would pay for the game just to chat with these people. Sure, there are bad apples, but you don’t have to interact much with these people in empire. Also, since you play in a corp, you mostly interact with your guildmates that will probably be cool people and help you. I am tempted to say that EVE has the best of the best of the game communities, the best people, but I can defend that idea with hard data.

    • Cael says:

      I kinda want to get in on this so that I can be an asshole to new players.

    • Anonymousity says:

      @DrGonzo I’m a long time dota player and I wish the community was nicer too, people are individuals and it’s not nice to make broad sweeping judgements, regardless of the broad evidence there is.

  34. pakoito says:

    First S2 response by [S2]Nigma, the community manager:

    “Hey guys.

    Like all of you, all of us here are also really excited to see just what DotA 2 has in store.

    I think a lot of you guys think that this announcement is coming to us as some sort of dramatic surprise, and that we’re all currently jumping out the nearest window. I’d like to say at this point that this isn’t true We’ve all been keeping up with this very diligently.

    In a market with many similar games (DotA/LoL/HoN and eventually DotA2), the consumer will (hopefully) end up buying the best game, or the game that fits their preference more.

    It’s our job to make sure that Heroes of Newerth will be the best it can possibly be.

    As Maliken once said, competition is a good thing. It encourages us to work harder and produce the best game possible. That’s what we’re here for.

    If you think we’re sitting here cowering in fear… well… too bad”

    • pakoito says:

      S2 are the guys behind HoN. Maliken is Marc DeForest, the owner and one of the designers at S2.

    • Burningpet says:

      Too bad its me Valve.

      never played dota, but from what i can see in its latest patch notes, icefrog been taking notes from the compettetion, especially demigod with its fantastic flag capturing system. hope to see things like that in Dota 2

    • TotalBiscuit says:

      Fantastic flag capturing system? *snort*

      Don’t fix what isn’t broken.

    • Burningpet says:

      Cause sitting in the lane last hitting and denying for 5 minutes is top notch action… right…

      There is alot to fix in dota.

    • DrGonzo says:

      The flag capture system is awesome. It requires you to work as a team and play well to get a boost in stats. Not just farm the other teams noob and buy the best items.

  35. DuckSauce says:

    Liked League of Legends, never played DotA, concerning what I hear, I don’t really want to :P I’ll stick with League of Legends, thanks anyway valve.

  36. Premium User Badge

    Sagan says:

    Hmm disappointing, that it’s just a remake. I enjoyed DotA a little, but not enough that I would be interested in a straight remake.

    Also @RPS: “the maps” – don’t you mean “the map”?

  37. jjs says:

    Meet the Heroes, anyone?

  38. Ricc says:

    Half-Life 2: Episode 3

    That is all, thank you.

  39. DestinedCruz says:

    As long as we see the perfect Valve-style balance in the gameplay that doesn’t exist in DotA or HoN, this should be the MoBA game to rule them all.

    • Manley Pointer says:

      I’m not sure if you’re making a joke about how TF2 is unbalanced, or not. I would say the selling point of dota is really variety, rather than balance; the diversity of heroes keeps the game interesting, even if some are obviously OP.

      Personally I find default dota gameplay pretty boring and prefer allrandom deathmatch (when people die, they come back as a different hero), which eliminates some of the problems with vanilla mode by allowing you to eliminate certain heroes from the game, and preventing people from always picking their favorite OP heroes. HoN doesn’t include this, so I hope dota2 will pick up the slack, and include some options to appease the sizeable deathmatch community from the original game. It always mystified me that the dota clones didn’t include dm, as it seemed about as popular as the vanilla mode, judging from the games that popped up in b.net’s custom game finder.

  40. Severian says:

    I’m also disappointed by this. I was hoping that Valve would be putting the full force of its creative empire behind revising and refining the Dota-concept – but *not* simply releasing Dota in a slicker skin. Demigod, for all its faults, attempted to innovate and I thought Value would be pushing the envelope further.

  41. perilisk says:

    Re: picture. I wonder if the carpet matches the drapes?

  42. Jannakar says:

    And what’s with this:

    “that Source is getting an update with this release, with new lighting, and the all-important true-cloth simulation, the lack of which has been holding back gaming for years.”

    Jeez, non-asshole company updates own engine with semi-interesting tech and we just get snide comments.

    Can’t you be happy about anything Walker? Why is everybody so ~bitter~ around here?

  43. Theo says:

    @Barman1942

    “You do understand that they hired the guy who made the original mod, right? And that he’s the one whose making this, right? You do get that?”

    Unfortunately, you don’t know what you’re talking about when you say that. Take a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_ancients#Development and you’ll see that IceFrog is just ONE of the MANY people that worked at making DOTA what it is today.

    Does IceFrog want to create DOTA: Source for Valve? Great! Him assuming all the credit for DOTA by having Valve publish their game as DOTA 2, that’s outrageous and Steve Mescon did the right thing by suing. I hope he wins too. What IceFrog and Valve are doing is utterly despicable and no matter how good DOTA 2 could be, it doesn’t excuse their actions.

    • skinlo says:

      They aren’t doing anything??

    • DrGonzo says:

      If they wanted the name they should have called LoL DOTA. The other thing I find hilarious is that they filed for a trademark on the name to counter Valve. Then they said it should be owned by the comminity, not a business. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

    • DrGonzo says:

      If they wanted the name they should have called LoL DOTA. The other thing I find hilarious is that they filed for a trademark on the name to counter Valve. Then they said it should be owned by the community, not a business. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

    • Lilliput King says:

      Well the idea is to take the claim away from Valve. I think this is the quote:

      “if we were to obtain the trademark, we would keep the game and the DotA name freely available to the mod community.”

      Seems pretty straightforward. They wouldn’t stop people from using it if they got the name.

  44. mod the world says:

    The only question that remains: What will come first, Episode 3 or DOTA 3?

  45. Sobric says:

    I’m showing my outrageous bias here, but while playing LoL I couldn’t help but feel that the game would be dramatically improved with a 3rd person camera and WASD controls, with mouse aim and proper sight lines.

    The most exciting thing about the DotA-alikes (MOBA’s or whatever) are the in-match levelling up, the gear and the mix of heroes. It’s like a really short MMO. The laning, the RTS view and controls: meh.

    • Wilson says:

      @Sobric – That sounds pretty cool to me. I expect DotA vets can tell me why it would never work, but I can’t see a desperate need to an RTS style camera. I tried LoL but after playing a couple of games it just didn’t grab me. I didn’t feel especially awesome at any point and it didn’t feel like I had much impact on the game (probably because I was new and only had the loosest idea what I was doing, but still). I like the general idea behind the game, but the execution always seems a bit bleh to me. Like it’s this epic battle idea that’s been cut down to groups of five or so mobs attacking each other down a few lanes while big heroes slap each other back and forth.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Get Monday Night Combat. That’s essentially what your describing. But I like it being top down, I would rather it was all skill shots though. Skill shots are spell that you have to aim, rather than just clicking on the enemy. I would also rather they took out items and levelling personally as I think they are mechanics just added to alienate noobs.

    • AS says:

      One of the core concepts of the game is map awareness and knowing where everyone else is, due to its roots in RTS, but that’s a relic that could be removed. LoL has a neat way of writing this out as being a summoner that brings a champion to fight, and you’re directing the champion, but either way is valid. I’d imagine it’d break down into the old gamepad vs. kb/m argument if they gave the option of a first person view and top-down where being able to see someone sneak behind you is an advantage over hearing movement behind.

      Would be interested in an Alien Swarm control scheme and how it compares to the usual clicking inherent in DotA, although heroes that control more than one unit might be a problem.

  46. Eclipse says:

    What’s up with Valve screwing up original DotA developers now at Riot Games?
    http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/19/riot-games-counter-files-for-dota-trademark/

    :( sad story

    • pakoito says:

      They’re bathing in $$$ with their pay2win game. Nobody cares about them.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I really don’t see how Riot are in the right here. They both have the same claim on the word to be honest.

  47. Solcry says:

    @Theo

    Aaaand thats what you got for basing all your information off of Wikipedia. IceFrog took a shell of a game and expanded it into something huge – Guinsoo did lay the foundations, but the game as we know it today is entirely of IceFrog’s making.

  48. Jad says:

    Hmm. I have said before, and was preparing to say this on the “pre-announcement” post this morning, that I do not agree with all the people yelling for more Half-Life, for news on Episode 3 before anything new.

    I say this because while I love Half-Life, I’m not a big fan of sequels, especially from devs as talented as Valve. Portal showed me that Valve can do games that are brilliant and innovative and like nothing else out there, and if relentless fan-demanded focus on more more more Half-Life had somehow prevented the release of Portal, the gaming world would be worse off. I have similar feelings for Left 4 Dead, although that game is clearly not as perfect or mind-bending as Portal, and is a bit more controversial.

    Anyway, as I said, one of my rallying cries has been: less Half-Life, more new Valve games.

    This, however, is not what I had in mind.

    A remake of someone else’s game? A game that is notoriously inaccessible? A sequel that, frankly, doesn’t need a sequel — or rather, already has two remake/sequels on the market? Portal, this is not. Left 4 Dead, this is not. Heck, Team Fortress 2, this is not.

    Waste of time and talent from one of the greatest developers in the industry, this is.

    • Theo says:

      @Jad:

      “Portal showed me that Valve can do games that are brilliant and innovative and like nothing else out there”

      Well, Valve didn’t have much to do with the innovation behind Portal. The whole concept was developed by a team of DigiPen students that created a small little game called Narbacular Drop during their studies at DigiPen. What Valve did was to hire the whole team that created Narbacular Drop, have them use Source for shinier graphics, add a simulacrum of a story and, voila, Portal.

      I mean, yes, Valve could have not believed in the concept and not hired the Narbacular Drop team, so they deserve some credit for hiring them. But from that, to saying that Valve, as a corporation, were the innovative ones, is a joke… and a pretty bad one at that.

    • Celkiasian says:

      When people talk about the innovation of Portal they mean a whole lot more than the portal mechanics.
      Games in other established genres share even more similarities but no one claims they can’t be innovative or that their studios didn’t do anything since their was another game with men shooting men.

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Except Valve also hired Old Man Murray to write for it. And I’m sure the team from Digipen benefited greatly from the experience from the people already at Valve. Plus, didn’t they say they hadn’t had any plans to make a new game based on it until they got hired?

      Portal wouldn’t have existed, or it wouldn’t have been as great, at least. Note this isn’t the first time they’ve done this. They did the same thing all the way back with Counter-Strike.

  49. Adrian says:

    The reason I think old DotA players are so happy about this game is that everything is untouched, and it has IceFrog developing it, and as there are kind players (yes, they do exist) the support system that valve is working at will make alot of people happy, and to say Dota 2 is HoN, is actually quite wrong, since they have alot of diffrentials, since all changes will be done as if it would have been regular DotA, not HoN, and believe me there are alot of changes done to HoN that DotA hasn’t.

    But IMO I just can’t wait, I play HoN and LoL, and I played DotA, but now with the new Source engine (OMFG!!! HYPE!) and the amazing Steamworks, and with my indestructible love for Valve and their work, I can’t just simply wait, GG everyone IceFrog is God-Like! ;)

  50. The Geek says:

    Come on TB, you should know by now:

    You can please all of the people some of the time.

    Some of the people all the time.

    And the Internet people never.