Duke’s “Capture The Babe” Slap Feature

By Jim Rossignol on March 22nd, 2011 at 8:25 am.


The exciting North American variant of Official Xbox Magazine has revealed that Duke’s multiplayer will feature a “Capture The Babe” multiplayer mode, in which teams battle over women who are being carted off to be impregnated by the alien invaders. Ah, that sounds hi-liarious, doesn’t it, readers? But there’s to be controversy, thanks to the unbelievable admission that the babe might “freak out”, requiring you to “gently give her a reassuring slap.” OXM insist that this slap on the arse is “more goofy than offensive”.

So… yeah.

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359 Comments »

  1. Vague-rant says:

    I’m sure thats what everyone aspires to be; “more goofy than offensive”.

    • P7uen says:

      And most of us manage it about as well as Gearbox have :(

    • gorgol says:

      I knew people would be offended by it! Hahaha.

      Games are not moral compasses… There are many many games, including this one, where you kick people in the nuts, blow their heads off with guns, or even torture them, which is much more morally reprehensive than slapping someone’s ass…

      I’m gonna get this game now, because it has this feature, because it sticks two fingers up at all the hypocrite pontificators out there who don’t know their head from their ass when it comes to morality.

      Ya’ll getting trolled by this game, and you deserve it. Keep frothing at the mouth like the herp derpers you are and rage on.

      It’s Duke Nukem, what did you expect?!

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      If anyone is frothing over here, Gorgol, it’s you.

    • gorgol says:

      Well, if this had been PCGamer, my comment probably would have been deleted. +Rep to RPS for not doing that, rare to find a place where you can express your opinion.

      P.S. Touché.

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      Gorgol may be frothing but he is right in what he says.

      Are you really that shocked? Is it really such an ‘unbelievable admission’? Or do you just feel you have to write that because while this would be fine in any other medium (books, tv, movies) it’s somehow not OK in games, because despite how much you lot and others write to the contrary, you still can’t help but believe that games are still really for kids (and maybe we are all just being big kids when we play them).

      And yes, a slap to the arse is fine in movies, books and tv – there are plenty of examples from John Wayne spanking Elizabeth Allen in Mclintock, to more recent examples in Weeds or Big Brother. It isn’t violence, it doesn’t have to be sexist (in the right context, which as Duke is a basically a parody, this surely is) and plenty of ladies actually like it when it’s done right.

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      I find it it unbelievable that a slap on the arse is “reassuring”, yes.

    • Lars Westergren says:

      >And yes, a slap to the arse is fine in movies, books and tv – there are plenty of examples from John Wayne spanking Elizabeth Allen in Mclintock,

      Oh, a film from 1963? Spanking of the type we is talking about here (non-consensual) is about deep humiliation and showing to someone you consider them not worthy to be treated as an adult but as a willful child (not that children should be spanked either…).

      Denying people their agency, establishing power over them as if they are your slave and you are their master… this stuff is funny to you?

    • Hanban says:

      @Donkeyfumbler

      Think about what you just wrote and apply it to real life. Spank a random woman, who let’s say dropped her purse on the ground, on the ass and see if she’s reassured.

      Or better yet! Try it on a couple of women! See how they react and come tell us if they looked reassured or if they returned the favour to your face!

      (Actually, don’t do that. It’s not nice!)

    • gorgol says:

      Err, woah, hold your horses there. It can actually be re-assuring, and its not about power. Sometimes when I’m in the kitchen my girlfriend slaps me on the ass as a joke. It startles me a little but then I see the funny side. As does she if I reciprocate the joke. Do you guys getting offended by this actually have or have ever had girlfriends? Or are you the stereotypical pc gamers?… O.o :S

      But anyway there are much worse things that are distrubingly common in games like for example torture and murder. So getting upset about this makes no sense whatsoever.

      And thirdly, this is a satire on machismo, and as such is actually against it.

    • Foxfoxfox says:

      “@Hanban – try it on ENOUGH women and you’re going to get laid, guaranteed.”

      Or arrested, whatever.

      Jesus.

    • SanguineAngel says:

      Well, Lars that is some selective quoting since he said from Mclitock to Weeds & Big Brother, which are both contempory.

      I personally don’t like the arse slapping mechanic on paper, I think it is sexist and demeaning and there is something a little disturbing about it. Although I will agree that that playing up sexism is part of Duke Nukem and to cry outrage at this, in this specific context is a little OTT to my mind. At worst it’s like a poor taste joke.

      I don’t think that Duke Nukem is really the hight of sexism in Games if I am honest. The entire thing is neon signposted as tongue in cheek. Meanwhile there are plenty of other games out there with seriously messed up depictions of women who seem to be taking themselves all too seriously indeed.

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      Lars – I can find you plenty of examples from more recent films if you really want me to – that was just the first that came to mind. Weeds is a recent TV series.

      Who has said here that this is non-consensual? You have assumed this, but has anyone asked the girl involved? Why should we assume it’s one way and not the other? Saying that a single light slap on the arse is all about deep humiliation and in any way similar to putting a child over your knee and spanking them is simply risible.

      Jim – depends on the person and the situation, but yes a slap on the arse can be reassuring. Certainly doesn’t apply to everyone, and it may be out of your experience, but it is true.

    • Foxfoxfox says:

      @SanguineAngel

      You’re totally right about this hardly being isolated in terms of offensive sexism in a game.

      Maybe it’s because it takes what was a strong tone of sexism and actively asks the player to excercise agency in enacting that sexism that tips it over the line.

      By and large though I just would love to see the medium progress beyond this sort of puerile bollocks. If it /was/ just the exception then i’d be much more OK with it.

    • Milky1985 says:

      My ex used to give me a quick slap on the butt when she walked into the kitchen while I was cooking, is this also gross sexism? Should I have her reported for for abuse?

      Of course not, its all about CONTEXT (and i liked it but thats not for open discussion)

      This is a game about a completely unpolitically correct person who is saving girls from being inseminnated by pig aliens.Also all the info we have is about a re-assuring slap, do we know what she is freaking out about yet? Is it about he being carried off by a big block or because she was about to be made pregent by a pig and shes a bit worried!

    • TheApologist says:

      Can people really not see the difference between two people being playful in an intimate, trusting relationship by patting each other on the ass and an armed man slapping a powerless female stranger.

      Seriously, the lengths you are having to go to try and justify this surely indicates something?

      The point is surely that asking a player, whose character is placed by the game in the circumstances described, to conduct this act crosses a line.

    • gorgol says:

      @TheApologist:

      CoD = torture + killing
      Bulletstorm = killing + torture + kicking in the nuts
      WoW = systematic genocide + torture + killing

      /thread

    • Thermal Ions says:

      Did I miss something. I don’t recall Jim getting all up in arms in the article, he’s reported the story, nothing more. It’s Duke Nukem so it’s not a surprise and in context of the IP’s history and information released to date, probably quite low on the scale of what is likely offensive in the game.

      Now trying to argue that in real life such as action could be seen as anything other than offensive and inappropriate, except with someone you have an established relationship with such that it’s meaning is understood, is itself offensive.

    • TheApologist says:

      @gorgol
      one bad thing + second bad thing does not equal both things being ok. That is the existence of CoD doesn’t make Duke Nukem ok.
      If you want to take issue with a differential being made where sexist violence is said to be worse than other forms of violence, fair enough. But let’s not pretend that this stance provides you with a logic for the toleration of sexist violence. It surely simply makes all forms of violence less tolerable.
      However, I would personally disagree with you about failing to make a distinction between sexist violence (and for that matter racist or homophobic violence) and other depictions of violence, for the reasons stated several times by others further down the thread – i.e. that games often posit you in contexts where violent acts have some form of justification such as self-defence from a powerful aggressor or liberation from a powerful aggressive force. This posits you as powerful and conducting an oppressive act towards a vulnerable woman.
      In games, and in the wider media, heroic characters are rarely oppressors. If you want to make that move as a writer, you have to handle it very carefully if it is to be interesting and challenging, and not simply offensive. Based on prior games and descriptions of the game, I am skeptical this will be interesting or challenging.
      PS Some may well say, yeah but you play CoD and surely they depict violent acts towards racist representations of, for example, people from the middle east. Well, I do not tend to play modern military shooters because when I have played them in the past, I felt them to be racist.

    • Milky1985 says:

      @TheApologist

      Do you know something about the slap that we don’t as currently we have two pieces of information, at some point when carrying the girl you give her a slap, and the slap is on the bum (and its insinuated to be playful)?

      As i said before we don’t know “why” she is freaking out at the moment, but you know you in the context of the fight you are saving them from pig men. If you were trying to save someone who was freaking out you woudl try to calm them down somehow? In this case the way its done is a slap on the bum (and i suspect the “freak out” is a way to stop people camping with flags in corners as theres noise made to alert people to where they are in terms of game mechanics)

      Hell most of us as kids were slapped on the bum, but cause we were naughty.

      Amazed how a very limited bit of information about this has turned a load of gaming comments sections into the daily mail comment section for gods sake.

      I also like how vibrators and getting pleasured by 2 girls while playing a video game (and a gloryhole) is fine, but a slap on teh butt is crossing a line.

    • Bilbo says:

      What @trollgol fails to appreciate is that the violence in games not only has the exact same analogue in other media as his beloved sexual degradation does, but also serves the plot of the game in a meaningful way. It isn’t offensive to shoot nazis in the head in WW2 games, because if you don’t do it, you aren’t going to capture pointe du hoc, and that’s a straight reasoning. The game’s about winning battles and you do that by killing, so it’s entirely necessary and appropriate. There is *no* reason to make slapping a hostage on the arse a game mechanic other than to be perverse, which is offensive, or deliberately controversial, which is patronising and tedious. You can reason with a woman you’re trying to help but you can’t reason with a nazi behind the barrel of a gun, simply put, and suggestions to the contrary are sexist.
      And that, as they say, is that.

    • TheApologist says:

      @Milky1985
      We are told in the story that the women are kidnap victims, and that if they ‘freak out’ we are to restore their emotional equilibrium by slapping them on the ass. That is the depiction of events I am working off, with some knowledge of the character from prior games for context.
      You make a fair point that information is limited, but would point out that I did not say I knew anything, and made it clear the bases I was working from.
      Also, I think it is fair to say that I never made the claim that I approved of or was aware of prior revelations of potentially sexist content in the game. I also never made the claim that I was prudish about depictions of sex, sex toys or whatever in this game or in games in general. I’m not. So, you might feel me to be reactionary, fair enough, but I would object to being called reactionary in the terms of the Daily Mail.

    • TheApologist says:

      @gorgol
      Not sure what you mean by providing the link.
      Is it intended to make an equivalence between the claim that Bulletstorm causes real world violent acts by its players and the claim that encouraging a player to commit an act of sexist violence in a game is something to be disapproved of?
      If so, I am confused as to how you could reach the conclusion that they are equivalent.

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      I’m surprised anyone is surprised at this. Is it sexist? Absolutely. Should you have expected this? Absolutely. It’s Duke Nukem! Since the 3D game, it’s been running off pride of being the most chauvinistic, meatheaded, big dumb shooty game around. Bulletstorm was smart dumb, Duke Nukem is dumb dumb.

      So really, both sides are right. It’s appalling… and you get EXACTLY what you paid for.

    • Bilbo says:

      I’m not sure anyone has stated that they’re “surprised” by this. I wasn’t surprised when I got my last water bill, but I still raged about it.

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      @Bilbo. Game mechanics are game mechanics, whether it is COD or Duke Nukem – the developer decides how he wants his game to play out. There is no reason why there couldn’t be some mechanic where you try to negotiate with your nazi foe, or decide to try and shoot him somewhere non-fatal. In fact plenty of games have gone down that route, so to say that to depict killing someone in the game you are designing is fine because there is no alternative to killing is just wrong – you have just made the choice to design the game that way because it’s more fun.

      This then is no different than the design here. Sure they could have chosen some other game mechanic to diffuse the situation, but it wouldn’t have been as fun or fitted the context of the rest of the game as well.

    • Bilbo says:

      I categorically, 100% do not agree. You get in doc brown’s time machine, go to normandy circa 1944 and chat to the nazis – who, by the way, mostly don’t speak english – while they’re trying to fight you off and let me know how far you get. Ridiculous. Also, how is triggering a slap animation “fun”?

      At no point did I say game designers don’t have the right to design their game – that’d be stupid – but if we want to talk about why this particular game design choice leaves a bad taste in so many mouths, the most logical and least reactionary answer I can find is the one I outlined, and by and large I’m sticking to it.

    • Milky1985 says:

      OK bit more info (from a JoyStiq comment post from someone who has played it at PAX i believe, not sure if its 100% true but possible http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/21/duke-nukem-forevers-capture-the-babe-mode-is-a-slap-in-the-fa/2#comments )

      “When playing carry the babe, you have to smack her ass. You carry her on your shoulder and she reacts to explosions and gun fire by kicking and screaming which slows you down and blocks your view. Do anyone think the ESRB would have allowed an actual face slap or any other type of serious violence against women in this game (or any other)? ”

      So there we go, actual (possibly anyway) info on whats going on, shes not reacting to you, shes reacting to the fact that a MASSIVE explosion just happened.

      How often in films does someone get hystrical and then get slapped, BOTH MAN AND WOMEN! (and why is it fine for a man to get slapped in the face in films and games?)

      Secondly how many people in here complaining about this are female? Has anyone actually asked any girls what they think of this and the game as a whole? Might be an important question and group of people to ask!

    • Consumatopia says:

      Wow, people are jumping through amazing hoops to defend this game.

    • The Great Wayne says:

      @Bilbo: you’re a moron and a troll. Stop jumping to an easy godwin and commenting on RL history you clearly have no clue about. You’ll do everyone a favor.
      Now back to the topic. Seriously, are the players so touchy nowadays that you can’t see this kind of stuff in a DN game ? Blimey, I could see the point if we were in a perfect world, but if you need to get on a feminist crusade I suggest you start with the mass medias, advertisement, reality shows who all depicts women (and human beings as a whole, ftm) as disposable objects under one form or another.
      Which btw goes much further than a slap on the buttcheeks in a clearly stereotypic, ironical video game.
      Another thing, in regards to man/woman equity. Seriously, who here would see a problem with the reverse situation where a female character would be saving men from being impregnated by space pigs, and prompting them to calm down by slapping them on the butt ? I know I don’t.
      Why should everything become an excuse for ideological revendication these days is beyond me. Looks like the dickwolves affair all over again. It’s like the players and the net community as a whole just aren’t gifted with the capacity to tell what part of fiction is just imaginary matter and what part could be relevant to RL.
      Let’s hope these people don’t start digging into the various mythologies taught in our universities, it’s seriously sick.

    • Bhazor says:

      Reply to Milky1985
      How about you ask how a woman feels about condescending slaps on the ass?

    • Bilbo says:

      @TGW Are you kidding me? What the hell was that? I was being entirely rational in presenting a good reason from a game design perspective why people are offended by this, and then defending my idea, and that’s all. I wasn’t trolling anybody. A period of history I obviously know nothing about? My understanding of the history – informed by an A grade in A level History – has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making, which was simply that shooting dudes in games makes sense and is pertinent and valid within the game’s story and context, while sexually degrading female captives isn’t. Okay it’s typical of the game but it’s still unneccessary and that’s why some commenters are less than impressed. Hopefully you understand this and we can move on. It certainly wasn’t moronic or trolling. It wasn’t off-topic either, so “Now back to the topic” can go straight back in the wheelie bin. On the other hand, just labelling me a moron and troll certainly was, so no cookie points for you, I’m afraid. “Jumping to an easy Godwin”? Try conjuring an apt metaphor for my opinion and presenting it clearly. I’m sorry if that seems so “easy”, I was just born this way.
      *EDIT* Just googled the concept of a Godwin, and that’s not even what I was doing. “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1″. I wasn’t saying “if you like sexual degradation of women in games, you’re a bit like the Nazis”, I was using the Nazis as a video game bad guy cliche because that’s a decent example. If it upsets you so much just substitute “1944″ and “Nazis” for “1971″ and “Communists”. There, I fixed it for you.
      You’re incredibly rude, by the way, what’s your problem? Do you get slapped around a lot, too?
      Man, I thought this was a nice place. I’m gonna go cool off with some gin and juice, TGW just really wound me up a treat with that one

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      @Bilbo.

      A bit harsh there from the Great Wayne – I certainly woudn’t accuse you of trolling.

      My Nazi analogy was just an example. There are lots of other games that involve killing people who aren’t Nazi’s where you simply don’t have a choice in the game but would have done if the situation occurred in real life. Also, not all of those who joined the German Army were out and out evil with no humanity to them (and some would have been able to speak English besides, just like I can speak a little German).

      As for triggering a slap being fun, well one man’s meat is another man’s poison and all that. I think it’s fun (and so does the wife, if you’re asking :).

      In the end it boils down to choice. The designers probably chose to include it because A. It was fun B. It fit with the tone of the game and C. It gets them publicity. No-one has to buy it if they don’t want to, and those that do are not going to go around slapping unwilling women on the arse (unless, possibly, they are rescuing them from violent space-pigs) or view them purely as sex objects any more than they possibly already do, just as women who play it won’t think all men are muscled, sexist, cigar-chomping nymphomaniacs.

    • Bilbo says:

      Well yeah, I can agree with you on all of those points pretty much. I get that it’s maybe implicit when someone’s voicing a negative opinion of a design choice in this age of boycotts and scandals that said person is also advocating class action against the game, or laying accusations of corruption at the feet of the developers, but I’m really not trying to do any of that – just trying to break through what I perceive to be a bit of a misunderstanding about the negative reaction this feature is getting from some commenters.
      I don’t want to get into great detail about the whole “nazi analogy thing”, just point out that I did qualify “mostly don’t speak english”, and that of course I do acknowledge that not all members of the german army were inherently evil, etc, etc. I did sort of make it sound like I was accusing all 1940s era german soldiers of being unrelenting killers, but that wasn’t my intention. My central point was just that in the context of a WW2 battle the individual soldier doesn’t generally get a chance to negotiate, whereas in a fantasy sci-fi setting there’s no explicit reason on show for why these female captives can’t simply be reasoned with or reassured verbally. In other contexts, as you rightly point out, there’s definitely a lot of room for alternative courses of action to violence to be presented as gameplay features, and I’d point to Swat 3 and its ilk as examples of good ways to handle this, and I’d even concede that on the whole the lack of alternatives to violence in so many games does aggravate me in the same manner as this does. I fully appreciate that the crass off-colour humour is part of the game’s appeal and I really don’t hold the decision against the developers – I just sympathise with all those who find the idea distasteful, for the reason I suggested, and can see a delineation between the role of violence in a video game and the role of sexual degradation in a video game, thus finding the argument that “if you aren’t offended by normal violence in games why are you offended by sexual violence in video games” not immediately valid.

    • ZenArcade says:

      It’s quite amusing that Gorgol believed the ass slapping to be some kind of punk rock affront to the holy video gaming establishment. Huuuuuuuuge lol’s. Forgive him Lord, he knows not what he is talking about.

    • Bilbo says:

      Smash the System!

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      @Bilbo.

      Fully agree with you (isn’t this lovely?). I too can see how some people might find this distasteful, and also be the same people who happily run people over in GTA at the same time. I’m fairly vehemently anti-censorship of any kind, except when there really is no choice or it is obviously black and white (child porn, rape etc.), which is where I’m coming from on this. The whole Daily Mail style ‘Ban this filth’ thing just really gets on my tits (not saying that Jim or RPS were saying that of course though).

    • Bilbo says:

      Yeah, I remember Mark Kermode saying something about how younger people needed to be careful about giving voice to moral qualms, and that if they were old enough to remember the “video nasties” thing they would be more tolerant. There’s definitely some truth in that, I think.

    • peanut says:

      I’m not sure the arguments here are comparing Apples with Apples. Most people (apart from one or two) here seem to agree that slapping a complete stranger (whether male or female) on the arse is offensive, and generally more offensive if a man does it to a woman because of historical oppression perpetrated by man against woman.

      What I don’t agree with, is that a game shouldn’t ever portray such an act. The duke is a clichéd sexist, rude and bigoted character. The duke is also a caricature of poor taste, and questionably satire too, so everything is exaggerated. Not having him act in a sexist, rude and bigoted way is tantamount to a film containing a bully who isn’t ever shown bullying anyone because that’s a mean thing to do.

      Maybe one thing that’s objected to, is that as the player, you’re required to initiate the action. It makes you feel seedy. But that makes me wonder what the hell people are thinking when they’re shooting people in the face in other games.

    • Milky1985 says:

      @Bhazor

      “How about you ask how a woman feels about condescending slaps on the ass?”

      I am sure a condescending slap on the ass will annoy them and I agree if i ask excatly like that I will get an answer of yes. It is a rather loaded question however :P

      The one we are talking bout I don’t think is condesending. I’m sure if someone actually sees it … (wait for it)…. in context with everything else in the game the answer will be different. Context is king!!

      If someone slap someone else in the face in one case it could be assult, in the other case trying to get someone hysterical to calm down, it all depends on the context of it.

      Now run along now ! [gives everyone a basketball player style buttslap, and by everyone i mean everyone!]

    • Consumatopia says:

      @peanut, there’s a difference between scripting a one-off Duke-being-Duke slap and designing a game mechanic in which women need to be slapped to calm down. And it is NOT that the player feels “seedier” in the latter. It’s that the script makes a statement about Duke, while the mechanic makes a statement about the way a world works. A script says Duke slaps women, a mechanic says women need to be slapped.

      Also note that you call Duke sexist and bigoted, but I suspect that if you tried to make a big budget game just as racist as this game is sexist that the industry wouldn’t let you get away with that. Imagine a strategy game where people of a different race were lazy and you had to push the yell button to make them start working again.

    • gorgol says:

      Slap on the ass, vs Murder, Torture, or Genocide. It’s quite disturbing how many think the first is a more offensive thing to depict than the other three. Sure the first can be offensive depending on context, but the other three much more so, in any context, and I don’t see “ban this filth” Daily Mail style pontificating from PC gamers everytime a CoD sequel or WoW expansion comes out. I shake my head at you all. Also try to remember its just a game, made of pixels on a screen…

    • Tacroy says:

      How often in films does someone get hystrical and then get slapped, BOTH MAN AND WOMEN!

      Okay – and how often is it on the ass?

      When someone is flipping out, slapping them in the face may or may not be appropriate – but slapping them in the ass never is.

      The thing is, it just doesn’t make any sense! If you’re a woman who’s been captured by pig aliens, then re-captured by some burly guy, and are now flipping out because everything around you is exploding – would getting slapped on the ass be more likely to calm you down, or to make you flip out even more?

      The real answer is, you probably wouldn’t even feel it! The only carrying position I can think of where ass-slapping would be feasible is the classical “hero carrying a damsel” pose, with the victim’s torso thrown over one of the rescuer’s shoulders; the thing is, that fucking hurts because your stomach is pressing in to their shoulder and it’s just really painful all around. There’s a reason why soldiers in real life use a fireman’s carry when they need to move someone around! A little slap on the ass isn’t going to feel like anything when you’re nearly barfing from the pain of having your stomach driven into some douchebag’s shoulder while he “rescues” you.

      So: not only is this mechanism in bad taste, it makes no fucking sense. The end.

    • gorgol says:

      @Tacroy: please, re-read what you’ve written and *facepalm*. Seriously.

    • arccos says:

      It would be much more interesting if the women were the combatants and Duke was the one captured and slapped.

      Call the mode “Sadie Hawkins.”

      Done.

    • arccos says:

      I think most people would agree that replacing the distressed woman with a black man in chains, and bringing him under control with a whip to the back would be pretty offensive. At least in the US. I doubt any publisher would even try to ship such a feature.

      Alternatively, most people would probably agree Duke getting captured and spanked by female combatants wouldn’t be offensive.

      So where does the feature as-is stand? Without playing it, to me, its more of the first than the second, since women have historically been treated misogynistically and stereotyped as weak and defenceless, and this continues that particular viewpoint. If it is successfully potrayed as a parody or satire, either by going so over the top with the misogyny to lampoon how video games still portray women ridiculously, or by showing Duke as completely out of touch with reality, then kudos to the dev team.

    • Shih Tzu says:

      What really disappoints me is what a betrayal this is to the Duke Nukem franchise’s history of progressive feminism.

      Even back in Duke Nukem 3D, you had strong female characters who were so confident in their social equality that they had the power to extort resources from Duke and then humiliate him by casting off their clothing in his presence.

    • arccos says:

      @Shih Tsu: Yes, and it was discussed back when DN3D was released, too.

    • gorgol says:

    • gorgol says:

      A view from an actual lady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHip-xZ61bY&feature=related

      So: blow it out your ass.

    • peanut says:

      @Consumatopia

      Shooting people is a game mechanic, does that mean people need to be shot in the face? The difference? Shooting people is a far worse crime. I mean sure, a game mechanic is a type of rule, but imagination is supposed to help the player to believe those rules aren’t universal. Just because I can’t open those doors that don’t have a protruding door handle in half life 2, doesn’t mean I can’t imagine rooms behind them. The same way I can imagine female characters elsewhere in the dukeverse that don’t have to be spanked at that very brief moment in time.

      Shooting people in most other games is also not satirical – DNF is clearly satirical. It’s based on those Seagal/Van Damme type action films with extremely backward views of gender roles. It’s clearly trying to be humorous, though is often tasteless, and questionably funny. COD etc on the other hand are continuations of those old backward action movie themes, though mostly they don’t even contain female roles. So probably worse. Lazy, in fact. Don’t even get me started on the fact that they’re basically just whack-a-mole with a range of different hype-charged mallets.

      When I labelled the ‘duke’ as sexist I was referring to the character, not the game. I obviously wouldn’t like to see a racist game. A game featuring a racist character however, would be fine. Although it was about aliens, Mass Effect braced a few racism issues in a reasonable fashion. The game isn’t racist though.

    • Consumatopia says:

      @peanut, you’re missing the point. A mechanic is not just the capacity to perform an action like spanking or shooting. It’s also the way game responds to that action.

      In the game, when you shoot people, they die. Everyone agrees that this is likely to happen in the real world.

      In the game, when you spank panicked women, they stop panicking. This is not how the real world typically works. See @Tacroy.

      (As an aside, even if this WERE just a matter of which action capacities you offer, you still wouldn’t be in the clear. For example, a non-ironic game where every time you press a button your character yells something racist. Even though murder is worse than racism, a racist action capability would be more suspect than a murderous action capability.)

      I get that Duke Nukem bears similarities to some action movies from the last century. However, I think that similarity is more a matter of inspiration rather than parody. Duke Nukem laughs with sexism, not at sexism.

    • gorgol says:

      Yeah, ‘cos this scene is sexist… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc . Give it a rest will ya? You’re just making yourself look silly. None of you have a leg to stand on to support your pontificating and you know it. Ahhh, you’re all trolling. Wow. Well done. I won’t feed the trolls anymore then.

    • Consumatopia says:

      That Airplane scene actually demonstrates what I’m talking about with mechanics. The woman never calms down. Slapping women to calm them down didn’t work. And the motivation of slappers was clearly shown to be sadistic. That is how satire is supposed to work.

    • luphisto says:

      To be completely honest I find the sheer stupidity of the gamemode’s premise more offensive than some buttock slapping. Although I am curious, will there be but smackage every time duke saves one of these helpless ladies? If so, one could make the argument that the people will be influenced by the repetitive exposure to this imagery. Then again I’ve been shooting people in the face for years and I’m totally fine *twitch*

  2. Col says:

    Well, this is sure to end well.

  3. BooleanBob says:

    …wait, what?

  4. Premium User Badge Keymonk says:

    It should be noted that the slap feature is apparently on the lady’s hindquarters.

    http://uk.kotaku.com/5784253/duke-nukem-forevers-capture-the-babe-mode-has-a-spank-button

    • Bhazor says:

      “The rest of DNF’s multiplayer, supporting up to 8 players at once, ”

      Thats the most shocking line from that article. Jeeze.

  5. mbp says:

    I’m waiting for the Fox News version before I make my mind up about this.

  6. itsallcrap says:

    See, now I’ve thought practically all the big video game controversies were overblown gibberish on the part of the media. Being the terrorists in COD, having sex in GTA, spectacular violence in Christ-knows-how-many things… but this is offensive.

    The thing is, I think they know it is. It’s a cry for attention. We have been cheapened.

  7. JackShandy says:

    I love how Xbox Magazine tries to justify this. You “Gently” give her “Reassuring” slaps. It’d be nice if magazines could make at least small criticisms of games they’re previewing. Even tiny ones like, y’know, suggesting that portraying women as objects to be captured and slapped when they get out of line might cross the line slightly.

    What’s the bet capturing the “Flag” makes the girl give some kind of striptease?

  8. kazooka says:

    That’s an easy way to keep me from buying your game. Insult my intelligence and do it with sexism. Hell, make it so we play the whole mode in blackface. That’ll strike about the right balance.

    Between this, and the marketing for Deadspace and Bulletstorm, I’m really tired of being treated like a particularly dumb 14-year-old. For me, it’s gotten to the point where I can’t ignore it any more. I’m not buying any game that thinks its target market is primarily interested in sniffing glue.

    • Zogtee says:

      This.

      It is essentially devs saying “This shit is good enough for you. We don’t even have to try anymore, because you buy it anyway”.

    • Drew says:

      Agreed.

      It’s too late to keep Gearbox from getting free publicity because of this, but I for one won’t be buying the game. Not because I’m offended or shocked, but just because it looks boring, patronizing, and (if you’ll pardon the turn of phrase) half-assed.

    • outoffeelinsobad says:

      Concurred.

  9. Wulf says:

    I think Pitchfork is trolling us in earnest, now.

    The most bizarre thing about this is that the controversy that this will generate will create more retail sales, as people ‘have to see it for themselves just to believe it.’ I wouldn’t mind betting that MW2 likely doubled its boxed sales with that trick, too.

    /colossal_facepalm

    • MrMud says:

      One would like to believe that but considering Blops sold more than MW2 without having a sensationalist set piece, one has to conclude that it sold because people actually like it…

    • Wulf says:

      Yeah, but I didn’t imply that it sold purely because of that, but rather that it helped to bolster sales by a magnitude that we can’t really know. I wouldn’t mind betting that it helped with a non-trivial per centage of sales though, because people do love sensationalism.

    • Negativeland says:

      “An open-handed slap is justified – if all other alternatives fail and there has been plenty of warning. If a woman is a bitch, or hysterical, or bloody-minded continually, then I’d do it. ” –Sean Connery

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Sean Connery has to be my favorite misogynist.

      Though to be fair, we’re all a little bit sexist. If we weren’t, we’d either be equally shocked if Duke was a woman and she went around saving wimpy dudes and patting them on the ass, or not shocked at all as it is a completely normal thing.

      But since no one goes around patting strangers on the rear (not without ending up in jail!), we can assume the first. And really, I’ll take moral outrage over either alternative.

    • Bilbo says:

      Deej, are you saying you wouldn’t be at all “offended” (I’m trying to use the term lightly, because people are confusing offense with RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION) by a game in which the males were subverted like this? The men had nothing to offer except exposing flesh, giggling, buttplugs littered the game levels, and to motivate them to move the heroine simply gave them a “reassuring slap on the behind”? I mean, purely because it’s such a reversal of the social double standard, I’d probably laugh briefly at the absurdity of it, but then I’d be a little pissed at my gender being so misrepresented. I think it’d be just as offensive the other way around, to be honest.

      I might’ve totally misunderstood what you were getting at, actually.

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      “if Duke was a woman and she went around saving wimpy dudes and patting them on the ass”

      Mod waiting to happen?

  10. Sagan says:

    OK, not going to buy this game then.

  11. jymkata says:

    Seriously? We really talking about the maturity of a game that has a section where you pick up shit and throw it at people?
    It is, at least, thematically appropriate, funny or not.

    • Starky says:

      This.

      Still, how much would you bet that if it was a man slapping another mans arse, a woman slapping a mans arse, or a woman slapping a womans arse this would never have appeared as a story.

      Not that that makes it right, but the reaction in these comments so so massively and moronically overblown it is kind of sad.

      There are many issues in womans rights that as a man I would stand up and support, maybe drum up some outrage over – unequal pay, work rights, equal access to employment and education (and as an Engineer in a 99% male dominated industry this is a real issue) health rights, things that contribute to real, measurable gender inequity.

      This isn’t one of them.

    • arienette says:

      Not just a because it’s a man slapping a woman’s arse, but also the context, helpless woman, needs a slap to calm her down, it does make a big difference. Mostly because it’s something rooted in actual, existant sexism.

      The important point is that it’s one among many instances ot bias against women in media that contribute to a culture where this can be seen as acceptable. It isn’t going to turn all the players into sexists, but creates an atmosphere where women are okay to be exploited in some ways for men.

    • 7rigger says:

      @Starky

      Spot on. I agree totally.

      @arienette

      Do you not think your taking this a little too seriously? Where was the outrage in Postal 2′s ‘capture the bitches’ mode?

      I think this will not affect anything, as it is a silly videogame. Duke Nukem 3D didn’t affect anything, Bulletstorm didn’t affect anything and neither will this. The only lasting effect will be these over-the-top comments about how it will make us all mysoginists.

  12. Giant, fussy whingebag says:

    Great. I think my manshoots have been somewhat lacking in misogyny, so this is just the thing!

  13. Squirrelfanatic says:

    Let’s wait and see what all of this is about when there is some footage to see, shall we? Not that I think that such a “feature” is something worth looking forward to, but people tend to get excited so easily over nothing.

  14. Crimsoneer says:

    HE TAPS HER ASS PEOPLE.

    RPS, can we avoid the daily mail scare philosophy from now on?

    • patricij says:

      ditto

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      It worries me that you think that ‘just’ tapping her ass is OK…

      I agree with squirrelfanatic: we should wait to see it before we judge, but I seriously doubt I will be swayed as to its value.

      Just to be clear. I believe in freedom of expression. Developers can make this sort of stuff all they want as far as I am concerned. I love bad taste humour. But this crosses a line for me personally (and I suspect many others). So I will not be subjecting myself to their product. Other people are welcome to enjoy it, I’ll just think less of them ;)

    • TonyB says:

      You’re right, the next time one of my female colleagues is having a bad day I’m going to gently tap them on the ass and I’m sure they’ll soon be in much better spirits. Thank you for putting the issue in perspective.

    • TheApologist says:

      @Crimsoneer

      A genuine question – are you being sarcastic in mocking people’s outrage? Or are you actually making fun of people who are arguing that sexism is not ok?

    • Lakshmi says:

      Tapping her ass isn’t okay or any better than slapping her face.

    • SanguineAngel says:

      “Nothing says ‘job well done’ like a firm slap on the behind”

    • Crimsoneer says:

      Hold on, it’s the ass tapping that pushed you over the line? You’ve been tempted by Duke Nukem so far, but now that there is ass tapping involved, you can’t look past the school girl lesbians, plot that involves abduction of young women, or omnipresent strip parlors?

      It’s Duke people. It’s as much a satire of chauvinistic, heteronormative culture as a glorification of it. If slap on the ass is what pushes you over the edge, you need to re-examine your values.

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      “Oh Duke! I’m so upset! I am wailing and flailing with fear, pain and disgust at what those aliens did to me! Please, spank me to make it better!”

      The above was originally intended to highlight how unnecessary the spanking is. But actually, if it were presented somewhat like that (i.e. she ASKS to be spanked for some incomprehensible reason) that would make it “more goofy than offensive” in my book…

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      Well, since the ass-tapping is the whole story… yep that’s the problem!

      Specifically though, it is the non-consensual aspect of it that bothers me (as I think my above post points shows). All the other stuff is ridiculous and chauvinistic, yes, but until this the player hasn’t been involved in harassment.

      Also, in fairness, I haven’t been particularly interested in DNF for a long while. I probably wouldn’t have bought or played it anyway…

    • Avenger says:

      Please look at the last decades comedy TV and tell me when “ass tapping” became offensive exactly.

      It is weird as a game mechanic (being prone to overuse) but it is right in line with what Duke has been doing so far

    • edit says:

      I guess game-characters should give their consent before being brutally killed by the player then.

    • Buzko says:

      “It’s Cindy, isn’t it? My name’s Duke, I’ve come to rescue you. You poor thing, can you walk? No? Well, we have to get out of here quickly before more of them come, so I need to carry you. And I need one hand free, so I’ll have to carry you firefighter style. It’s going to be uncomfortable, but we’ll get to safety as quickly as possible and then the doctors can have a look at you. One last thing, Cindy, I need you to be brave and keep quiet as much as you can. Is it all right if I pick you up now? OK, up we go. Cindy, remember you need to be quiet. Shhh, there there. You’ll be home soon.” The hostage over his shoulder, Duke patted her backside absently, wondering whether he was telling the truth…

      Somehow I don’t think so.

    • frymaster says:

      the ass slap is at least “merely” totally misogynistic and sexist, as opposed to also having domestic violence overtones. In the sliding scale of “seriously? do you really feel the need to include this in a videogame in 2011?” it’s a couple of notches less extreme, though whether that makes it come in below the tastelessly tacky bar is a different question

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      Generally, I would say that someone pointing a loaded gun at someone else is implicitly consenting to be shot. They are willing participants in a gunfight. If you hold a weapon and intend to use it, you are in combat. So please, don’t compare shooting opponents in shooty games to molesting bystanders/scenery…

    • Kaira- says:

      @Giant, fussy whinebag

      So, what you are saying is that Jack Thompson was correct on his crusade against GTA, as you can shoot bystanders?

      This whole outcry smells like hypocrisy.

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      @Kaira: Not really, no. Part of the point of GTA is to be a world simulator: you’re able to attack unarmed bystanders, much as you are in the real world. There’s no real reason to do so, though, and if you get enjoyment out of it I think there’s something odd going on in your head…

      Anyway, as I tried to say earlier, my view is that people are welcome to enjoy these sorts of things, but I won’t be one of them and I will think less of them. Just because I disagree with it doesn’t mean I think it has no right to exist…

  15. patricij says:

    I, for one, welcome our slapping overlords!
    Since when is DNF supposed to be politically-correct? How about never? :)))
    Do away with the prudence, life should be enjoyed!

    • Makariel says:

      If you find that funny knock yourself out. I don’t find it funny, but I also stopped laughing about fart jokes in my teens. So maybe I’m the wrong one to judge this.

    • John Walker says:

      Okay, NOW someone’s gone too far. There’s nothing wrong with laughing at farts. I won’t have fart gags besmirched by comparison to gross sexism.

    • Makariel says:

      Last time I laughed about a fart joke was about the time I played Duke Nukem 3d, thus the mental connection.

    • MajorManiac says:

      If the lady in question farted on Duke’s hand it would almost be worth having in the game. :)

    • Makariel says:

      I admit, that would be funny :)

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      Maybe she did fart in his face and that’s why he’s spanking her?

    • Blaq says:

      @Makariel: Oh, so slapping asses is wrong, demeaning and abusive, while farting on people is funny. Gotcha.

      Some people are seriously confused. Maybe because they are being outraged by a game intended to be played for fun, as opposed to being played for educational value and moral guidelines.

      Even if the ass-slaping feature is a reflection of the sexist reality, how about we go try harder to do something about the reality rather than the byproduct?

      PS: The farting comment was written with a tongue-in-cheek attitude. Don’t get your knickers in a twist over it.

    • Nick says:

      Yes, some people certainly are confused, well demonstrated.

    • Urael says:

      For the purposes of gaming, Duke Nukem is a Sexist Asshole. He always has been, always should be. As much as I wouldn’t slap a woman’s ass in real life – and there are some rather enjoyable and intimate situations in which the women herself will happily accept this type of behaviour – I’m going to enjoy the hell out of doing it in game, because in the game I’ll ‘BE’ Duke.

      For everyone getting upset, please see all the arguments we’ve ever had about violence, and the delineation between Real Life and Make Believe that we constantly whine about people and tabloid journalists not getting. If it’s ok to shoot some digital bastard in the digital face a million times then it’s ok for digital women to get slapped on their digital backsides. It has about as much moral impact as Doom does. Or are we going to have the same discussion about any Mario game ever released, whose portrayal of women is generally even worse? No, I thought not.

  16. Makariel says:

    So much for this crazy idea of video games becoming more mature. This publishing stunt puts DNF on the very bottom of my to-buy-list. Right onto the part of the list that get’s flushed down the toilet.

    • heretic says:

      have you ever played a duke nukem? the whole idea is NOT to be mature…

    • TheApologist says:

      There’s being immature, and there’s selling violence towards women as entertainment. I’m all for the former, but the latter is surely not ok, and really not needed?

    • heretic says:

      I’d probably agree with you, if it was the case that you could repeatedly beat the girl and see her in pain and cry, that would just be tasteless. I hardly think that’s the case here but then again we’ll see when it comes out.

    • Acosta says:

      Violence toward women is unacceptable, violence toward angry russians, evil nazis and crazy arabs are completely ok. Maybe we should shoot women and tap on the ass of sexy aliens , would that made this more fair?

      Are we going to start balance our fantasy videogames with reality to check what can we do and what not? Because, you know, there is a like a ton stuff you can do in a videogame that you can’t (or shouldn’t) do in reality, it would be awfully boring.

    • heretic says:

      why is it acceptable in films and books and not in games? is it really because of the “interactivity” of it?

      imo, no.

      if a game was completely tame but had a cutscene showing horrible stuff which is shown daily in films or books (i.e. with no interactivity), the media and probably you would go all apeshit about it anyway.

      double standards. videogames are just what gangster rap was in the 90s (80s?)

    • Foxfoxfox says:

      @heretic.

      Videgames are NOT what the hip-hop movement was in the 80s.

      Just, no.

      And IMO yes the players agency has alot to do with why this feels more offensive.

      Also you would not get a character slapping a women non-consensually in other media these days without strong mitigating context. Although arguably, it is “appropriate” for Duke as a character to hit a lady on the arse, is it appropriate for you, me, and that 12 year old over there to do it?

    • Makariel says:

      @Heretic: I played Duke 3D when it came out, which was 15 years ago. I thought games might have moved on since then, but apparently I’m wrong.

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      You realize there were Duke Nukem games BEFORE 3D, right?

      Because there were, and I don’t remember any of them being sexist, or anything other than a difficult shooter.

    • Synchrony says:

      @Foxfoxfox

      re your question as to whether its ok for me you or some 12 year old to do it, in the context of a game, yes, yes and no. the game is rated 17+ no 12 year olds should be playing it, if they are then that’s down to their parents. The game is aimed entirely at adults, and any sane adult knows the difference between fantasy and reality.
      DNF doesn’t condone this behaviour in real life any more than GTA condones murdering cops and prostitutes

  17. heretic says:

    I wonder if you can still give her dollars to see her tits, that would be controversy.

  18. Acosta says:

    Duke is duke, news at 11. I hope I can pay to see (uncensored) tits too, I expect no less.

    Hail to the king baby!

    • heretic says:

      hear hear!

      though tbh in duke nukem 3D the tits were so pixelated it kinda looked like they were censored anyway…

  19. Okami says:

    Funny how “I was just gently give her a reassuring slap.” and “it was more goofy than offensive” was exactly what I told the judge. Stupid bitch still sent me to jail, can you believe that? I bet she was one of those lesbos who haven’t been fucked by a real man in ages!

    And no I don’t see why having a multiplayer mode where strong men have to slap women could in some way be a bad idea?

    It’s just fun!

    And if it gets cut from the final game, it’s all just because those lesbian communist femi nazis hate free speech and freedom of expression and try to shove their agenda down our throats!

    • Haywire says:

      sure didnt get sent to jail for all the murders though, because that is nowhere near as bad as sexual harassment

  20. Wolf Hongo says:

    I’D BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR!

  21. Hoaxfish says:

    This game is so typical… it encourage the alien impregnation culture!

  22. arienette says:

    I must concur with many people here, this is a lost sale from me. When we see such blatant sexism and objectification of women we need to let people know it’s not okay. It’s hard enough to find decent representations of women in games without shit like this.

  23. Eclipse says:

    I’m quite confident this thing was added by gearbox and wasn’t in the original 3D Realms game.
    That said, it’s JUST ONE MULTIPLAYER MODE GUYS, it’s not like his catchphrase is “it’s time to chew bubblegum and slap bitches, and I’m all out of bubblegum” now.

    I just think, time will tell if the game is good or not. I’m just happy to see Forever getting released, it’s something I though it wasn’t possible.
    And if it’s even half the good of Duke Nukem 3D I’ll be very happy with it.

  24. Eclipse says:

    the ones talking about sexism never played a Duke Nukem game

  25. Kaira- says:

    Sounds pretty much what to expect from Duke. I’ll buy it, haters gonna hate, and so forth.

  26. cliffski says:

    The best response to this would be if everyone just sighed and bought battlefield 3 and ignored this overhyped crap.
    The game is already going to lose tens if not hundreds of millions. It couldnt happen to a more worthy franchise.

    They just *know* that gamers will jump like lemmings to defend gaming to anyone, and they do this because its cheaper than the equivilant ad-spend. It’s frankly pathetic, and a sign that they can’t design games for shit. Nor, clearly can they produce them, as this one has taken longer than the fucking moon landings.
    I’d be embarrased as fuck to work on a game pulling pathetic stunts like this.

    • Lars Westergren says:

      Well said cliffski.

      When people are choosing to create big outrage-inducing publicity stunts instead of talking about the product itself… it is usually a sign the product isn’t very good, and they know it.

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      The outrage and volume is coming from people like you Cliffski. If you didn’t let little things like this get your back up and rage about it on the forums, then no-one would feel that they have to defend the fact that games are made for all kinds of people, not just you.

      Dislike it all you like, criticise it for being crap, if it is crap, when it comes out and you’ve actually played it, but don’t make crass suppositions and generalisations based purely on the fact that you don’t like the subject matter.

    • cliffski says:

      I don’t want games made for people who find slapping a woman to be entertainment. Nor do i want interactive cross burnings sims, or rape simulations.
      I don’t think I’m alone in wanting games to grow up in the way they treat women. You only have to look at the grief girl gamers get, to see how far we have to go to drag gamers attitdues into the 1980s, let alone 2011.

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      Way to go massively OTT with your examples. From a playful slap on the arse to rape? That’s like going from a wedgie to disemboweling someone.

      There are plenty of examples of this in other mainstream media and on primetime tv. Games should be treated no differently.

      You say ‘gamers attiudes’ as if we are still some small geeky clique locked in our bedrooms who never grew up. Gamers are EVERYONE these days. Gamers attitudes are everyone’s attitudes. As such, different games are made to appeal to different people, just like books, just like movies, just like TV.

      Fortunately, it’s not up to you to decide what games are and are not acceptable for everyone else based purely on what you do or don’t like.

    • Lars Westergren says:

      @Donkeyfumbler

      >From a playful slap on the arse to rape? That’s like going from a wedgie to disemboweling someone.
      He didn’t say one caused the other. He said he wouldn’t like having that presented as entertainment, either.

      >There are plenty of examples of this in other mainstream media and on primetime tv. Games should be treated no differently.

      “But other media do it” is not a very strong defense in my opinion, it is just a variant on the bandwagon. Racism was ok in films and books for quite some time, that did not make it right.

      >Fortunately, it’s not up to you to decide what games are and are not acceptable for everyone else based purely on what you do or don’t like.

      Nowhere did I see cliffski demand censorship or claim he had the final say in things. He is arguing his viewpoint, just as you are. And you are right, all sorts of people play games these days, and some of them obviously have a negative view on this. The one who seems to have a big problem with this is you.

    • Rush Ton says:

      well put. One could argue that if you don’t like this misogynistic infantile rubbish just ignore the game. However pulling this kind of stunt just cheapens the entire media. How is gaming supposed to overcome the prejudices thrown around by outlets such as fox media when games such as this are actively reinforcing them?

    • Donkeyfumbler says:

      @Lars.
      >He didn’t say one caused the other. He said he wouldn’t like having that presented as entertainment, either.

      I didn’t say he claimed that one caused the other. Rather than lumping this in the same category as rape simulators was massively OTT (which it is).

      >“But other media do it” is not a very strong defense in my opinion, it is just a variant on the bandwagon. Racism was ok in films and books for quite some time, that did not make it right.

      I get it – you don’t like it, and you don’t think it should appear in any medium. That’s fine and your opinion, but the fact is that there are plenty of people who disagree with you. Oh, and I wasn’t using the ‘it appears in films’ line as a defense, just trying to make the point that games should be judged in the same way as other media.

      >Nowhere did I see cliffski demand censorship

      Cliffski’s line was ‘I don’t want made games made for other people who…………”. Now that may not be demanding censorship, but it’s certainly asking for it.

      > The one who seems to have a big problem with this is you.

      Hmmm, so Cliffski comes on and starts effing and blinding and I post a fairly calm response about allowing games to be made for all sorts of people and treating them in the same way as films and TV, and yet you say that I have the problem with this topic?

  27. patricij says:

    To the protesters: I guess you haven’t been really looking forward to the REAL DN3D sequel then, the original wasn’t exactly political correctness central, mind.

    I do think the game is supposed to be over-the-top, immature, full of steroids, political-incorrectness all around… it is supposed to make the die hard Duke fans young (or teenage for that matter) again. This game will be, as I see it, the first and foremost, a fanservice, a nostalgic piece from another era (it was supposed to be still a late 90s/early 00s game originally after all).

    Ever since I first played DN3D I finished the elementary school, had my first sex, played bazillion of other games, finished the high school, started (and still far from finished if ever) going to university…not all that much happened, but I guess the older (the one that were actually of the right age to play the game) fans may have gotten married,taken on mortgages, gotten stable long-hours jobs, kids come along…so I don’t see why we can’t let them have a bit of nostalgic fun, really. Oh, sometimes I’d long for the 90s where slapping someone on the behind wasn’t a thing for the first page headlines…at least not in Central/Eastern Europe

    • Okami says:

      And I long for the early 1900s when women weren’t allowed to have their own bank accounts or vote. Good times!

    • Urthman says:

      I played and enjoyed the original Duke 3D, but this really turns me off. And everyone saying “Duke has always been like this” makes me realize I’ve been a hypocrite.

      “Give me a little bit of titillating sexism, but not too much!”

      It’s not worth it. Sexism hurts people and I can give up a few stupid jokes and even a few fun video games to try to make the world less hurtful. I wish my daughters could live in a world where people did not find this crap entertaining.

      This game sucks and the original Duke 3D sucks and I’m ashamed that I ever enjoyed it. I repent. And I’m voting with my wallet. I’m not buying DNF. I’m not buying Bulletstorm. I’m not buying games with this kind of sexist crap.

      Is it hypocritical to draw the line at sexism when I enjoy games that are full of murder and killing and violence? I don’t know, but I feel like there’s a qualitative difference between the fantasy, “I wish I could run around shooting people and blowing things up” and “I wish I could treat women as sex objects.” Maybe it’s that the average gamer is much more likely to actually do the latter in real life?

  28. Quaib says:

    Oh wow. So do these people complaining even know anything about the Duke?
    Have they played the original? I highly doubt it.

    • Lars Westergren says:

      Played the original, finished it, found it distasteful even back then.

    • Acosta says:

      So?

      If you found distasteful the original , I guess finding distasteful the sequel is quite fitting.

    • heretic says:

      why did you finish it if it was distasteful… maybe SECRETLY you ENJOYED it.

      EDIT: err anyway what do you mean about the original, there’s a bunch of duke games you know…

    • Stijn says:

      So basically, if you think DNF’s portrayal of woman is a sad affair, you’re not allowed to complain about it; either it’s okay because the first installment did it too, or because “it’s not your kind of game”?

  29. Spacewalk says:

    If this is the Duke Nukem I know spanking those women will just cause them to explode into a cloud of dollar bills whilst more enemies teleport in. I don’t want that happening near my base’s capture point.

  30. SirKicksalot says:

    God, I can’t wait for the inevitable outraged Wot I Think.

  31. CMaster says:

    Been thinking a little about why this immediately seems like a bad idea to me.
    Is it because of violence against women (if so, why is violence against men OK)? No, because I had no issue with shooting female splicers in Bioshock, I’d have no issue if CoD 8 let you play as female soldiers, etc.
    Is it because of violence against non-combatants? Again no, if there were female scientists in the original Half Life, I wouldn’t have shot them, but it wouldn’t have upset me that people did. Equally, a quick knock, on the head or on the bum is nothing compared to what happens to civvies in games all the while.

    No, it’s simply the parallels with domestic violence that make this very uncomfortable. The “flag” is relying on Duke for protection, while at the same time not having a choice about going with him. And he hits her. And domestic violence is a horrible, insidious thing, that while perhaps not a blight on our society is certainly more common than you’d like to think (2 domestic murders a week – about a 6th of all murders – in the UK, 25% of all violent crime). And anything that seems to encourage the thinking “that bitch needs a slap to sort her out” feels like it’s sending the wrong message. Suggesting it’s just a light-hearted thing only adds to that. (Oh, and making it a spanking rather than a face slap makes it more implying of sexual violence rather than domineering. Not sure that is any better).

  32. arienette says:

    @Everyone in the previous comments supporting this

    Immaturity in fine, it’s fun, there’s no need to be serious all the time. But just because 20 years ago they could do this is doesn’t mean we should now. It simply isn’t okay to treat women like this in a such a high profile game. There’s a difference between being politically incorrect and just being offensive.

    I’m willing to bet most of the supporters are men and I get that it can be an especially difficult thing to understand from a male perspective as we’re in a priviliged position of not having to put up with this stuff throughout our lives. This game is reinforcing damaging views and I won’t have it.

    • heretic says:

      ok.

      but please don’t have any of the other (much more high profile) crap too: rap, films and books which glorify all these things which you don’t like.

      don’t take it out just on video games yo!

    • Jubaal says:

      @ arienette – I couldn’t have put it better myself. Totally agree with you.
      I don’t often post on here, but I do feel strongly about this.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      Women being portrayed as sex objects is offensive, but men being portrayed as meatheaded pigs is totally OK. Huh.

      Also, this is Duke, I thought it was supposed to be satirical anyway. The outrage seems silly.

    • choconutjoe says:

      …we’re in a priviliged position of not having to put up with this stuff throughout our lives.

      Speak for yourself.

      This game is reinforcing damaging views…

      But is it though? Or is it just a joke in bad taste? Is there any way of telling?
      I see these kind of claims a lot, but I never see any real evidence. If someone could prove that this ass-slapping thing will have a measurable effect on people’s attitudes (and consequently their actions) then this would be a very big deal indeed. Otherwise it’s hard to see how this is any worse than any of the other ‘immoral’ things I do in computer games all the time.

    • arienette says:

      @choconutjoe

      Please look up the gender politics concept of privilige.

      If it is a joke it’s a very bad one where the poor taste far weighs the harmful reinforcement of male dominance in society. It’s not just the slap, it’s the context, the helplessnes and panic of the woman, put in her place by a powerful man.

    • Okami says:

      EDIT: Reformated the whole thing so that it makes a bit more sense. The post developed into a rant that addressed more issues then the ones raised by choconutjoe..

      But is it though? Or is it just a joke in bad taste?

      Yes it is. It’s reinforcing damaging views and it is a bad joke in bad taste.

      You have to slap poor defenceless women on their ass to make them follow you to your base so that you can score. Do I really have to explain to you why this might be reinforcing damaging views? Do you really think that everybody who plays this game will think “Ah, those intelligent and witty game developers, who no doubt have all read Simone de Beauvoir’s ” Le Deuxième Sexe”, are using this multiplayer mode to make fun of and challenge our heteronormative world view and I totally get the joke and will always respect women and never think that women are sex objects, to be collected and herded by strong men!”

      By creating a game mode in which you have to save defencless, objectified women by means of slapping them on their butts, the developers are reinforcing the view that women are defenceless objects that are ok to be slapped on their butts. And no, saying “it’s just a joke” doesn’t make it better – because we all know, that it’s not meant as an attack on masculinity and it’s not so much making fun of these things as just pretending to do so.

      And could we all please stop using the tired old “it’s just satire” argument. Satire and Irony are the whores of reactionary assholes everywhere who’ll use them as windowdressing for their stupid, hateful and outdated views “Oh, but it’s just a joke and if you don’t get it then you are boring and hate fun and you take everything too seriously!”.

      Fun fact: 100% of people who say that video games don’t influence people and are thereby allowed to pull off any kind of racist, misygonist and reactionioary shit also send death threats to Roger Ebert for claiming that games are not art. It’s true, I read it on the internet.

    • choconutjoe says:

      @arienette

      I’m well aware of the gender politics concept of privilege, and I don’t think for a second it justifies making crass generalizations about people you’ve never met. Bigotry is bad whichever direction it goes in.

      You can wax lyrical about the context all day long, you’ve still failed to provide anything like empirical evidence to support you’re claim.

      @Okami

      Yes it is. It’s reinforcing damaging views

      Again, my point: How do you know this? Is this anything more than a wild guess?

    • DrGonzo says:

      Of course it won’t. No one makes decisions about the world based on their experiences in DNF. I still think this is pretty messed up and won’t be buying it, but jeesh!

      It’s Duke Nukem, it’s misogynist crap, we’ve known that for over ten years, just don’t buy it like me if you don’t like it. No point wasting your energy here.

    • choconutjoe says:

      @Okami

      Do I really have to explain to you why this might be reinforcing damaging views?

      No you don’t have to explain why it might be. You have prove why it is.

    • duffers says:

      @Okami

      So you think people on the whole are too thick to decide for themselves and must be lead to the desired outcome? I find that outlook as offensive as the sexist behaviour Duke carries out. And yes, satire and irony are used by the right, as are many other things. It would be a bit odd to stop using them because they do too. They use knives and forks presumbly too, are you going to start eating with your hands even when it’s not fishfingers and chips for dinner?

      For the record, yes it’s in bad taste and it’s not becoming behaviour but is completely apropos to the satire of the character and the series. That some people won’t get that doesn’t mean you should dumb it down to appease everyone.

  33. kenoxite says:

    So what? It’s Duke Nukem. It’s always been about this kind of stuff. Lowest denominator young male power fantasy.
    I never liked it before and this won’t make me like it more. But neither like it less, as it’s doing (or going to do) nothing I wouldn’t expect from it.

  34. Jubaal says:

    I’m actually appauled by this whether it makes it into the game or not. The very fact they are even considering it makes me shake my head in sadness. It’s another nail in the coffin for why I won’t buy this game. It’s a further shame that this kind of distasteful stunt will drive more women away from games and reinforce the perceptions of misogyny in gaming.

    • heretic says:

      why are you worried that this represents gaming as a whole?

      there are games which are geared at a specific audience, this one is for men.

      there are magazines geared at specific audiences too… playboy probably shows women in a degrading sort of way, oh no it will drive women away from the magazine industry!

    • arienette says:

      @heretic

      It seems to me to be more targeted at a charicature of men rather than an anyone I’ve met.

    • heretic says:

      true, I imagine most men you’ve met don’t act like duke, but then that’s the beauty of video games, it allows normal men to enjoy a media which portrays them acting like kids sometimes :)

    • duffers says:

      @Jubaal

      But video games are on the whole misogynistic, as is wider society. Why would you expect things to take place in a bubble, or that video games should be any more progressive than other media?

  35. Mister_Inveigler says:

    Duke slapping a lady’s arse? Meh. Nothing to write home about. Everything in Duke is objectified: the men, the women, the bubblegum, everything. Tongue is firmly planted in cheek. Duke isn’t sending “messages”, he’s guffawing in the back of the classroom with a towel around his shoulders, sunglasses firmly in place and party streamers tied to his tackle dancing in the wind.

    • Neut says:

      There’s a difference between what this says about Duke as a character, and what this as a piece of culture says about the mindset of the people making it and the people defending it.

    • Mister_Inveigler says:

      It’s silly, it’s juvenile, but then what isn’t in Duke Nukem? It’s an adult game that small children shouldn’t be getting their sticky hands on. It’s not saying that this behaviour is appropriate because nothing about Duke is appropriate.
      This isn’t about gender equality or correctness. The entire game is a mashup of stereotypes and the exploitation of everyone involved.
      So I say again: not really anything to write home about. And certainly nothing to get up in arms over.

  36. Surreallemming says:

    I’ma just leave this here

    • heretic says:

      you 4chan monkey you xD

    • Acosta says:

      Distasteful! Film industry showing again how immature they are.

    • heretic says:

      @acosta

      so you have something against all forms of media?

      that’s fair enough by me. I just can’t stand people who criticise video games while not coughing at other forms of media which deal with the exact same things.

    • xagarath says:

      A) Features both men and women inflicting violence, unlike the matter here
      B) Is actually funny

      Relevance: little

  37. Hedgemonster says:

    I don’t think there’s anything particularly offensive about this. Complaining about something that is obviously meant to be silly (perhaps even in a postmodern, “oh-look-at-how-ironically-poliitcally-incorrect-we-are” kind of way?) is akin to taking Bulletstorm seriously and thinking it really does cause you to rape people, or in this case become a misogynist. Am I the only one who thinks that Duke Nukem is, more than anything, a parody of the one-liner-spouting, womanising action hero? From what I’ve seen, this is more ludicrously over-the-top than any of the previous games, so I don’t see what the fuss is all about.

    @arienette: you’re taking things too seriously. If you continue along that line, most games should be banned, because they reinforce the idea of “man the hunter”, discriminate against Russians, are hurtful to aliens (you never know what they’ll think about all these alien-blasting games when they finally contact us!), show a distinct preference for cubes over cones, etc., etc.

    • Stijn says:

      With one major difference: whereas the rape story was (as John Walker beautifully showed us) completely without any sort of factual basis, there is a lengthy discourse about how male-centric media production (of which this is a very obvious example) promotes misogynic views.

    • Okami says:

      You’re a guy.

    • arienette says:

      You sure you know what post-modernism is?

      Other than that, I take sexism seriously yes, and rightly so. I am a man, but I want nothing more than to see games (and media in general) show us other viewpoints. Even then, a man doesn’t have to be a hunter, and a hunter doesn’t have to be misogynistic.

      You’re putting far too many words in my mouth, I don’t want to ban anything, but I don’t think we as people should accept this treatment of women in media. It contributes to an overall culture of sexism in which these things can be taken as normal. Put yourself in the shoes of a woman who may have to put up with or have experienced sexual harrassment at some point. We shouldn’t trivialise it.

    • Hedgemonster says:

      @Stijn: you’re right, that is a difference. I think, though, that you can compare it to the old chestnut in which violence in computer games is thought to cause violence in real life, for which there is no proof. In the same way, misogynistic behaviour in computer games does not translate to misogynistic behaviour in real life.

      @Okami: not sure what you’re getting it. If it was meant as an ad hominem (i.e. “You’re a real man, man!”), I’d appreciate it if you didn’t do that, since you don’t know me. Otherwise, guilty as charged.

      @arienette: yes, I do. (But I would admit that only the final product will reveal whether it can be taken as some form of postmodernist commentary, perhaps about exactly the kind of behaviour we are discussing and the morals that it represents, but it is sort of the impression I have at present. Edit: I may be giving the game more credit than it deserves, but ah well!)

      Anyway, you say that the sexism in this game “contributes to an overall culture of sexism in which these things can be taken as normal.” This is similar to what I think Stijn was getting at: if we accept violence in game as being somehow unconnected to real-life behaviour, then why should we make a fuss about certain other elements in games, vis-a-vis the slapping of a digital lady’s behind in a silly game? I think it’s a case of having your cake and eating it too: if you don’t think that shooting people in games will cause you to shoot people in real life, then why are you worried about a game in which, apparently, women are objectified?

      Thanks for the discussion, I appreciate it.

      Edit: clarified something a bit.

    • Stijn says:

      That’s not what I was getting at at all. Misogyny and violence are two very different things. I’m also not saying playing Duke makes you hate women. What I do believe though is that games like this can (I haven’t played it!) reinforce the long-lasting status quo of portraying women as the weak sex, et cetera – conforming the dominant feminist views on media production – while glorifying masculine, dominant behaviour. Which I personally don’t think is a very healthy premise.

      The problem of course is that it’s a subtle, and thus easy to play down. Just like playing violent games will not make you go out to buy a gun and shoot your classmates, but could (research is still inconclusive) theoretically have subtle effects on your attitude towards resorting to violence as a means to resolve conflict.

    • arienette says:

      I don’t think shooting someone in a game makes you a killer in real life, and I don’t think slapping a woman in a game will make you beat your wife. But modern sexism isn’t overt normally, it’s incredibly subtle things, these potryals in media, in all media, create at atmosphere from which we learn. The difference with violence is society is quicker to teach you violence in real life is unacceptable in overt ways. But sexism is hardly addressed in these more complex manners.

    • Okami says:

      @hedgemonster:

      Actually I wanted to write: Let me guess, you’re a guy.

      And by that I mean:

      Of course you don’t find anything offensive about something that not only objectifies women but does so in a very base way and also makes what’s basically sexual harrassment appear like it’s a fun thing – because you’re a man and not a woman.

    • Hedgemonster says:

      @Stijn and @arienette:

      Both of you make good points that sexism is a more subtle thing than violence (because violence is more easily condemned and controlled), and that misogynistic behaviour in a computer game could promote a culture in which women are treated differently from men. Apologies if I misunderstood you earlier. The problem, though, as you indicate yourselves, is that we don’t know what the effects are, especially as research seems to go back and forth on these issues.

      But I think most reasonable human beings will be able to divorce their actions in a game from their actions in real life, which is the original point I was trying to make. Would you agree with that?

      @Arienette, you don’t want to ban this behaviour from games (or books, film, etc.), so how would you deal with this problem? “Not accepting it”, as you stated earlier, seems like effectively the same thing, only self-imposed or imposed by others through societal pressure. There is a line to be drawn, certain parametres between which most media functions (the game would be universally condemned if it contained, say, bestiality), so that demonstrates your point that sexism is a function of our society, even if it is to be condemned in real life.

      It’s a tricky issue, because if sexism in this game is condemned, it may open another can of worms entirely. Where do you draw the line? Should the Super Mario games be condemned for having an Italian plumber rescue a helpless princess from a reptillian monster? If not, why not? If there is a line to be drawn somewhere, I don’t know where it should be placed or who should draw it in the first place. Perhaps society itself will furnish the answer if DNF ends up selling poorly, but what if it becomes a hit?

      Apologies if I’m starting to ramble a bit, but it’s an interesting discussion; thanks again.

      Edit: @Okami, I see. Perhaps my sex does preclude me from the necessary experience to properly evaluate the sexism in DNF. In my defence, I can only say that I try to live my life as decently as I can, treating my fellow humans with respect, regardless of sex, race, creed, or age. Games and other media provide me with escapist fun.

    • arienette says:

      Yeh, I’m very much of the opinion that it’s something we need to police socially, not legally. By which I mean do what some of us here are doing, take a stand against things we find unacceptable and argue the point hard. It’s a matter of educating people more rather than preventing access.

      There is no hard and fast line I don’t think, but a lot of it is about the context. Is it only men saving helpless women? Do you save men as well, why do we need to slap them on the arse? Watch something like madmen and it shows sexism but makes very serious points in doing so. Where as duke is exploiting women for entertainment.

    • Hedgemonster says:

      @arienette: I see your point. Societal pressure is the only way to solve the issue, one way or another.

      As a final point, it’s perhaps worth noting that in my experience, once you get familar with a game, the theme itself becomes subservient to the game’s rules and mechanics, you sort of mentally strip away the veneer. In other words, the “capture the babe” mode becomes just a variation on the age-old capture the flag: the “women” become simply the objective that you have to capture, interact with (“slap”) when prompted, and then carry back to base to score points and win the match. In that sense, misogynistic behaviour in games is perhaps less harmful than in other media?

    • arienette says:

      I’m not sure, I mean, I know eventually it gets stripped down in your mind to the base mechanics of what to do and where to go. But that is still essentially reducing the women to a mere object. And a large part of why this crosses the line is a mechanic in which you slap her arse to calm her down, which is rather egregious. Essentially, I don’t think that player agency changes things too much or makes it worse in anyway but that it still contributes to a culture where these things are seen as acceptable.

    • Hedgemonster says:

      @arienette: That is perfectly reasonable, even if I don’t think that, speaking for myself, it’s a problem. Time will tell what the general reaction will be like, and I am curious to try the game out and see what the developers have done to contextualise the action: will it be ridiculously self-conscious and self-deprecating (what I expect it to be) or disappointingly mean-spirited?

      Thanks again for the enjoyable discussion.

  38. Milky1985 says:

    I don’t think fox news will be complaining about a bottom slap in a game where Randy Pitchford has proudly said that theres a “interactive gloryhole”, and theres already videos of a certain vibrating object with the line “you know you wanna touch it” :P

    I think that sets the tone for the game and a slap on the butt fits right in tbh (as hes saving them from being impregnated by aliens…). Its immature humor yes, but if i’m being honest i like the immature humor a bit so will be getting this to have a laugh.

  39. xagarath says:

    Most of you won’t have played God Hand, a work of minor genius that also featured spanking women in a supposedly comical fashion.
    The difference was context and tone.
    In God Hand, you were spanking women who were trying, for no discernable reason, to kill you. In the same vein you were kicking men in the groin, stamping on chihuahuas and kicking midgets into space. The whole cheerfully misanthropic tone of the game was both entirely undisciminatory and in a distinct vein of self-defence.
    Duke Nukem, in the meantime, apparently has you doing it to defenceless, nonaggressive women in order to kidnap them.
    The point is not that spanking people in a game can’t be comical, but that the way this particular game is doing it has uncomfortable undertones of misogyny and domestic violence.

  40. MadTinkerer says:

    Um, guys, the Return of Matt Hazard game (which turned out to be a mediocre third person shooter which was much better on paper than in execution) already had the main character spanking female enemies on a regular basis. Considering that Matt Hazard basically was their take on Duke Nukem, I have to say this isn’t particularly surprising.

    It’s also not particularly offensive or controversial compared to the entire rest of Duke Nukem Forever. Seriously: it’s just Capture The Scientist mode from Science & Industry but with “babes” instead of Kleiner doppelgangers.

    If I was somehow in a real-life situation where I’m in the middle of a war zone on a rescue mission and someone’s freaking out and they refuse to listen and there are enemies all around, then a light spanking is plenty justified. I’m just saying: I’d rather spank someone than let them get themselves killed, regardless of what they look like. It’s the compassionate thing to do. And if they happen to coincidentally be a hot babe, then I’ll just have to spank them in as gentlemanly a manner as possible.

    EDIT: Come to think of it, Bayonetta also has a spanking move, among other things. How come it’s not offensive when she does it? Double standard, there.

    • Sigma Draconis says:

      We might be the only two here to have played (or even remember) Science & Industry. Good times were had with that Half-Life mod.

      Anyway, I agree with you. This spanking just fits in the territory of Duke Nukem. It’s certainly not tasteful, but if I were really pining for a game with any sort of taste, I’d just go play something else.

    • poop says:

      citing a shitty console game that nobody played and a game with a heavy bdsm theme doesnt really help here.

    • Joe W-A says:

      Fuckin’ love Science and Industry.

  41. Nick says:

    I can’t help but feel that people saying ‘OH LOL YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT THE VIOLENCE SO WHY THIS?’ etc are missing the point somewhat. Everyone right minded knows that real violence isn’t something thats cool, but casual stuff like this is somewhat insidiously reinforcing certain behaviours/mindsets. And yes rap videos are often horrifically worse, but we aren’t on a rap music website talking about rap music and just because something is worse doesn’t make other bad stuff ok too.
    Plus I like flags. WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE FLAGS?

    • heretic says:

      but casual stuff like this is somewhat insidiously reinforcing certain behaviours/mindsets

      [reference needed]

      in any case, I would agree with you that people with a disturbed mind would probably be influenced by this (in fact, ANYTHING), much like john lennon’s killer.

      however I don’t think it affects normal minded people who can tell the difference between this and reality.

    • Nick says:

      Oh do go away.

  42. bokkiedog says:

    Sometimes I argue with John that much of gaming is stuck in the mindset of the puerile adolescent. I now realise how wrong I was. Sorry, John (slap!).

  43. Hedgemonster says:

    @Lars Westergren wrote “Denying people their agency, establishing power over them as if they are your slave and you are their master… this stuff is funny to you?”

    It’s apparently only funny when you assert power over men or monsters by unloading a gun into their face. I don’t see how slapping a fake lady’s bum, one that is generated by my computer for a tongue-in-cheek computer game, is infinitely more offensive.

    Edit: reply fail makes me sad.

    • Lars Westergren says:

      >It’s apparently only funny when you assert power over men or monsters by unloading a gun into their face.

      I don’t find that funny. In fact I find the constant focus on violence and gore in games rather sad. Games that expect me to laugh at it, like Bulletstorm, especially so.

      >I don’t see how slapping a fake lady’s bum, one that is generated by my computer for a tongue-in-cheek computer game is infinitely more offensive.

      It is not infinitely more offensive, but I thought it crossed a line.

      If you are shooting someone in a game, you are usually taking the role of a liberator or someone who chooses to defend themselves. You are not expected to go around and shoot for instance unarmed civilians in the face for amusement or profit. Some people do that in the real world right now though, like mercenaries hired by Ghadaffi for instance . So a “Soldier of Fortune 2011 – Libyan conflict” game I would find extra offensive and depressive.

      And this game expects us to take the role of the aggressor and oppressor here, to reinforce revolting gender roles, and expect us to think it is funny, and “not a big deal”.

    • heretic says:

      “I don’t find that funny. In fact I find the constant focus on violence and gore in games rather sad. Games that expect me to laugh at it, like Bulletstorm, especially so.”

      if you find that focus sad then play games which don’t involve this…

      I don’t really get you, you find duke nukem distasteful yet play it through the end… there are intelligent strategy games which are completely tame which would seem to suit you better.

    • Milky1985 says:

      “If you are shooting someone in a game, you are usually taking the role of a liberator or someone who chooses to defend themselves. You are not expected to go around and shoot for instance unarmed civilians in the face for amusement or profit”

      No russian and the legion of GTA players who just go on killing sprees beg to differ. In some games youa re the liberator (ironically in the game in question as well) but not all, in some your the bad guy!

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Lars, I don’t remember Bulletstorm wanting you to laugh at the shooty bits.

      I remember it wanted you to laugh at the gay jokes.

  44. trooperdx3117 says:

    Wow just wow, okay so everyones worried about the whole crass sexism angle but clearly Gearbox havent even considered the logistics of spanking women, how is that supposed to calm a woman down?! Surely that would scare them more!

  45. Leelad says:

    REASSURING SLAPS ON THE BUM CAUSE RAPE AND THE COMPULSION TO SHAG KITTENS.

    I will NOT buy buying this after 12 years of waiting.

    Leads me on to another question. DO consoles really deserve this? Even though i’m not buying it? which I am.

    In my humble opinion they (being people who insist on playing FPS’s on the console) should have to wait the same time we all have. Pricks.

  46. Crane says:

    I think that sexism and bigotry will only be truly dead when we can put things like this in games, and nobody complains because nobody even considers the idea that such a thing is conceived of as being acceptable with real women.

    • heretic says:

      then sexism and bigotry will never be dead.

      people still complain about these things appearing in books and books have been around for a loooong time.

    • pipman3000 says:

      sexism and bigotry will never be dead until people can be sexist and bigoted without anyone calling them out – crane

  47. deejayem says:

    There’s a huge difference between irony and simple provocation. This is the point John made about the mass graves in Homefront, and Kieron made about No Russian back in the day. If you’re going to deal with important, sensitive issues like violence against women, war crimes or the killing of civilians, then you’ve got a responsibility to make your treatment of them matter. Otherwise you’re just making cheap gags out of other people’s misery.

    The point about irony is that it reveals something about the teller as much as the story. Slapping women is only ironic if it’s done to illuminate something about the kind of mindset that thinks that’s ok (like Mad Men, or that Family Guy sketch someone quoted up thread). If you’re just doing it for a few laughs, you’ve failed miserably. And Jesus, it’s depressing how few people can distinguish between the two.

    • heretic says:

      “If you’re going to deal with important, sensitive issues like violence against women, war crimes or the killing of civilians, then you’ve got a responsibility to make your treatment of them matter. ”

      was homefront or cod trying to deal with it in a responsible way? maybe, from popular opinion it looks as if they failed, but the thing is… ITS OK.

      if they tried to deal with it responsibly but failed, thats fine, you have to try a few times before getting it right.

      if on the other hand they were just being distasteful… well… ITS OK TOO. this distastefulness will appeal to some people and not to others, in any case its mission accomplished for them if their objective was to appeal to some people and not others.

    • deejayem says:

      “its mission accomplished for them if their objective was to appeal to some people and not others.”

      I guess my point is that, if you’re dealing with important stuff, your objective should be a little bigger than this.

  48. Grape says:

    Oh, lovin’ all the offended chucklefucks in here. It’s you people who practically assure I’m buying the game as soon as it’s out.

  49. kyynis says:

    Yeah, especially since everybody knows you calm down panicking women with a reassuring slap to the face.

  50. pyjamarama says:

    Using virtual guns to kill virtual people is mature and respectable form of entertainment, a virtual slap on a virtual ass is a immature and outrage act against humanity.
    I enjoy FPSs but if are going to make a relation between screen action and reality almost every thing you do in the game pales in comparison to the act of shotting someone.

    • Prosper0_cz says:

      Perfectly put, 100% agree.

      Its interesting that all the outraged anti-sexist people repeat their anti-sexism chants but this point (“yeah, and mass-murdering is ok?”) was made several times but so far left unanswered…

      Why so?

    • Zanchito says:

      Ditto, double standards galore around here.

    • Giant, fussy whingebag says:

      I addressed this very point above:

      Generally, I would say that someone pointing a loaded gun at someone else is implicitly consenting to be shot. They are willing participants in a gunfight. If you hold a weapon and intend to use it, you are in combat. So please, don’t compare shooting opponents in shooty games to molesting bystanders/scenery…

      To which I would add that I also thought “No Russian” was pushing things somewhat, but let’s not get into that…

    • deejayem says:

      It’s an interesting point. One answer is that fighting and killing people who threaten us or things we hold dear is culturally acceptable. Most of the time the “mass murder” we commit in games is against people who are established in the plot as evil and/or threatening. Killing unarmed or innocent people is less common, and more controversial, as the No Russian example shows. The justification for violence may be weak, but there usually is one.

      The real answer is perhaps that we don’t take enough notice of what games ask us to do. And the most interesting games, to me, at least, are those that ask us to think in a little more detail about what it really means to use violence – Deus Ex being the king example.

    • Neut says:

      Ditto what Giant, fussy whingebag (:D) and deejayem said.

      Just because people aren’t saying anything about mass violence right now (hint: there’s a reason they’re called MANSHOOTS around these parts) does not somehow invalidate people taking issues with sexism.

    • poop says:

      hello my name is pyjamarama and I cant distinguish between an action game glorifying action movie violence and a game glorifying domestic violence

    • 7rigger says:

      Hello my name is poop and I can’t distinguish between a video game and domestic violence.

      Edit: You can tell when someone has a great point by the way that they move up and down a thread replying with the same answer, without waiting to be responded too. :P

    • Hallgrim says:

      Well hell almost nothing is worse than shooting someone, so lets get cracking! In this game, you should rape the girls and get them pregnant yourself, then the aliens can’t also impregnate them. Sounds good right? Better than ‘shotting’ them isn’t it?

      Seriously, you basically saying “genocide is out, everything else is in”.