By Alec Meer on April 8th, 2011 at 4:36 pm.
Ever get the feeling you’re being played? The latest crudity salvo from the Duke Nukem Forever marketing cannon is this ‘babes’ trailer. If anyone was expecting a chauvinism climb-down following the controversy around the optional bottom-slapping in the ‘capture the babe’ multiplayer mode, they’re certainly not getting it. The following video is just about safe for work, but it is entirely, consciously puerile.
I see what you did there. Controversy is being courted, and at the same time the reductive approach to gender is trying to be pushed so far that it could only be considered open satire (the belching and toilet flushing at the start of the video is but the first giveaway that Gearbox are baiting the world with this video). Satire of what, I’m no longer entirely sure. Of the game itself, I guess. Which raises the question of where DNF’s worth really lies.
Well, for me it’s all about whether it’s a decent game or not, on levels far beyond the surface headline-courting. I’m certainly no fan of the “lol, boobs” approach, even when tongue in cheek (and I feel slightly annoyed with myself for having posted this trailer because of that), but only to the extent that I just find it kind of boring. Neither the titillation or the humour works on me.
Maybe it would if I was 15. I’m 32, and oh so very tired.
lol, boobs
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LOL BOOBS
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Have a cup of Horlicks and fuck off to bed old man!
(I’m 31 :( )
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I spilt coffee. (B42 36…or you could contextually read as “B42 preference 42DD”)
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Its kind of sad mediocre previews are causing them to resort to such blatant shock tactics. Are even Fox News rising to the bait?.
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Gamesradar’s previews were glowing with praise though.
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“That being said, the oldschool-ness of Duke will be a bit of a double edged sword. In a way, backtracking to find that particular door you missed earlier or banging your head against simple puzzles brings back the kind of challenges we didn’t realize we’ve been missing after years of smooth, more linear campaigns that make us feel like action stars as we constantly just press forward and onward with minimal frustration. But it’s also a reminder of why we may not see games like this anymore these days.
During one boss fight, we faced monstrously obese alien raining rockets on us from above. We tried fighting him the way we might approach a boss in a Halo game. Every time we tried to stand up to him face-to-face, dodging his attacks and blasting him whenever we had a free moment, we died. In the end, we kited him into a narrow hallway where we let the boss kill himself by crossing over a series of trip mines we laid out before him. It felt cheap, like we were cheating. But you know what? It also felt great at the same time. Because that’s exactly the kind of thing we used to do to beat old Doom bosses or to clear areas in a Serious Sam game, the kind of thing that fits perfectly in the world of Duke Nukem.
The action itself also felt rough at times. It should be noted that we were still playing an early build of the game, but there were times when firefights made Duke Nukem Forever feel more old than oldschool. Sometimes we found it hard to keep enemies in our sights as they bounced about the screen jerkily.”
The only part of the 2 page preview thats more screenshots than words that covers gameplay and we’re treated to fervent attempts to spin old tired gameplay and poor tech as good, mainly via use of nostalgia. “We liked shitty key card hunts damnit!” is not glowing praise.
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Yeah.. “This boss has shitty, broken AI that you can exploit and force it to kill itself! That’s old-school and great!” is a whole heaping pile o’ bullshit, and pretty much confirms that the game is going to be as bad as it looks.
Even back in the 90s, I was complaining about how shitty FPS bosses were, and how much better those in 2d console games are, too. Nowadays… most bosses in all genres are shitty, but there’s still a few companies that can get them right.
I really don’t need a return to terrible design like that.
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Well, I remember an old boss in Doom, the Cyberdemon. There was really no way to beat it in a straight fight. The only way was running away, and slowly drain him down with missiles. (45, not counting misses). That’s clearly old school, but I wouldn’t mind having to fight him again.
Anyway…
LOL, BOOBS
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Meh. I’d rather have “broken” AI I can play around with than a boss fight that’s 99% scripted and will always play out the same way.
It’s called EMERGENT GAMEPLAY, people. Something too many FPS games can’t be arsed to do, so it becomes “oldschool” after a time. Not everything that’s “oldschool” is praised exclusively for it’s nostalgia value: some things were always the better way to do it, and too many people missed the lesson. This is why the term exists in the first place.
EDIT: Bioshock 1 and 2 are good examples of games that actually do implement “oldschool” FPS and adventure game mechanics. Instead of rushing in guns blazing, you set traps, you sabotage their traps, you turn their allies and gadgets on them, you trick them into thinking you’re going one way before doubling back, you use your weapons and toys in combination, etc. This sounds like what was described above.
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Is it… is it… is it in yet?
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Lollerskates boobs.
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LOL BOOOBS
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“Satire” is only satire when it’s making a point, not when it’s just a cheap excuse to do all the shitty things you really want to do.
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Well…this probably is more realistic than anything else for any real-life Duke Nukem manly rockstar fame types. Being approached by scores of bimboes, that is. So I don’t know anymore what to think…satire, gratuitiousness (is that a word?), realism..my head is spinning.
Anyway, I’ll probably buy it if it’s a fun game. It’s Duke effing Nukem, what’s not to love?
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Breasts!
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Huge white breasts!
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Before anyone asks, that song you heard about the 10th time you watched the video is called “Pledge of Allegiance” by a band called Louis XIV.
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Nobody was going to ask.
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I was curious, but I’d have Googled the lyrics.
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Quick someone call Rob Fahey!
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Let it go.
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They should remove Duke from the game in order to make room for more breasts.
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LOL BOOBS
(I only registered to post that)
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You should be proud.
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29 seconds in, and there’s the flash of the graffiti in the background “They Live. We Sleep”, a reference to John Carpenter’s Frankfurt-School Marxist Parable They Live. Maybe it’s all a commentary on how media carnification of the female body form is lulling the middle class into complacency with their destruction at the hands of the rich capitalist overlords. You know. Duke drinks beer, checks out babes, has a good time, rather than throwing bricks at that shit.
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That’s a long-winded way of saying “lol, boobs”
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…but he can definitely throw shit at those bricks!
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Really? I just thought it was a reference to where the half of Duke’s catchphrases that weren’t stolen directly from The Evil Dead were stolen from.
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Well, the Bubblegum and Asskicking feeds into the same interpretation. After all, as long as we’ve got bubblegum, we’re sedated.
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It wasn’t really stolen. 3D Realms never claimed Duke coined those phrases. The players all knew those films. It’s like saying Bruce Campbell stole the Three Stooges slapstick. That the “They Live” grafittii is there is a heartening sign for me.
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LOL, BOOBS.
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LOL!
BOOBS!
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I HATE YOU ALL
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But you love boobs, right?
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5318008 707!
(I can’t believe LOL wasn’t even a word last time I did that)
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Man, I wonder if kids still even do that, or if even calculators have bitmap displays these days.
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lol porn
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u mad?
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I laughed. You’re the bro-est of bros, sir.
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True story.
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Looks like someone’s Poser license is finally seeing some use ;D
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While I am also tired of the whole “lol, boobs” thing, I think Duke Nukem is basically the only game out there that can get away with it, or be allowed to wallow in this kind of thing. I would be happy if God of War and all the rest just quit the whole women-objectifying thing and pushed it all into this one misogynistic bomb every 12 years or so.
If I were the King of All Cosmos, I would decree this.
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Referencing a game that never appeared on our most noble of platforms? HERESY
But yeah, I basically agree.
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Oh look, more “I am above this sexist trash!” preaching from Alec Meer. Great.
Maybe Gearbox will delay DNF again to appease one overly sensitive gaming journalist and edit out all the naughty, naughty stuff. If The Witcher 2 guys bowed, I guess anything is possible. Thank God I will be safe from possibly considering Duke Nukem the voice of reason about how I should treat women.
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Keep trucking renegade.
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I should think that anyone older than 16 would be above this sexist trash, but whatever…
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On the contrary, I am 33 and LOL BOOBS
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The question is, what can possibly be below this sexist trash?
Drowning puppies, possibly. But it would have to be a lot of them.
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Drowning puppies that have boobs?
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Yeah, really. It’s Duke Nukem for fucks sake. What did you expect. And Duke Nukem’s not going to turn anyone into a chauvinist who wasn’t already one. RPS is starting to sound like Fox News whenever DNF comes up.
Actually these overwrought reactions smack of insecurity. I can play and possibly even enjoy the intentional crudity of Duke Nukem without feeling the need to wring my hands every 5 seconds saying “oh, how chauvinist! oh, how juvenile! oh, how utterly above all this I am!”.
Maybe RPS is just pandering to the set who need to constantly remind themselves of how sophisticated and enlightened they are lest they forget.
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poor Witcher 2….
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If you don’t MIND things being crude for the sake of being crude, that’s your prerogative. Some people don’t like it. Some people find it offensive. I know I’m not pandering to anyone when I call footage like this trash. I find it either bland, annoying, or repulsive depending on context. Here I just find it bland.
On the other hand, I don’t think you can excuse sexist media by saying “It’s Duke fucking Nukem, get over it!” Duke Nukem is not causing 13 year olds to objectify women, and certainly isn’t going to change the gender-based attitudes and prejudices of the 20+ crowd. But while I can understand arguing that it’s more a symptom than a disease and by itself mostly harmless, I don’t buy that it’s satire of anything other than Duke Nukem and I damn well don’t buy the “it’s ok because it’s Duke” argument. There are so many sexist tropes lurking around in our media, and they perpetuate themselves readily because we sometimes forget that they discriminate; they demonstrate the same mindset that makes it easy to get caught in a middle ground where few people are blatantly misogynous but the social pressures that prevent equal standing between men and women doesn’t happen either.
Again, I don’t think Duke Nukem is going to make gamers into misogynous, womanizing cretins. But if you’re going to enter the discussion about whether or not the sexist content is “ok” I think you have to realize that expecting sexism from a certain source doesn’t make that sexism “ok.” I expect sexism to occur at my home counties town meetings involving certain members of the county commission. That doesn’t make it acceptable and doesn’t excuse the effects it has on their policy making. In context, even “not ok” sexism in Duke Nukem probably won’t cause any damage to gamers let alone society. But that’s not the same as it being acceptable. Because when we accept it, we become extremely susceptible to the things that are genuinely damaging. We are consistently terrible judges of our own prejudices and how much the media we consume and the people we listen to can shape our actions in spite of our intellectual ideas about a given subject.
Play your game. Have fun. Ignore the sexism. That’s perfectly fine; you’re probably right to think the game is relatively harmless, especially if you don’t play it because you like to see women objectified but rather because you like “crude” humor in general and like the gameplay. But when defending it, please don’t defend it because it’s “expected.” I think that attitude is a major part of the argument against all blatant sexism and such in media. It’s insidious and it keeps a foot in the door for more broad spectrum ideas about women in the practical world. It’s not the portrayal of women that’s the worst part of this. It’s how accepting people are of it.
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P.S. I would like to stress that I don’t think everything has to be “politically correct” and that there is a time and context for most otherwise unacceptable statements. I think the tone of Duke Nukem sounds to be so outlandish that it diffuses a lot of cut it could have. But it doesn’t seem new. It’s the same hyperbolic humor from before. I think that takes away from the contextual view of the game and shoves us more in the direction of pure content, which, in the ads, is just hypermasculine, sexist, trash. It’s the difference between being refreshingly irreverent and being an asshole. I’m not always into the former style of humor, but I understand the argument for why it can be ok (South Park attacks everything with equal irreverence, for example; it often goes too far for me to enjoy, but I respect that it overall doesn’t much lean towards attacking a single group, let alone a socially marginalized group).
But this is a retread. As a game, it seems unoriginal and trying very hard to pander to the fans of the first game. The pandering aspect sort of takes away from the “everyone is so uptight, but these guys just want to chill and make trashy jokes” argument.
Moreover, in the advertisements, most of the “refreshing irreverence” is directed at women. That’s not refreshing. At all. Mostly it’s boring, but it’s also offensive. I’m sure the full game lands somewhere between refreshing irreverence and blatant offense, if you sit from end to end. But the advertising, much like the bullshit EA pulled for Bullestorm, doesn’t feel interesting, refreshing, or anything other than boring hyper masculine trash. It’s so redundant to me that I don’t really take it seriously or find it hurtful, but I also can’t shake the feeling that it’s trying so damn hard that it must be taking itself seriously. It’s really struggling to be irreverent. And it’s desperately lashing out at easy, socially prepared targets rather than making it’s own politically incorrect mash-up for people who enjoy crude humor and feel like being nice to everyone all the time is boring and makes you up-tight.
Which is sad, because it sounds like the original felt like that last part of that sentence to a lot of people. And maybe it would have felt like that to me. It sounds like at the least it had solid, fun gameplay when it came out. Hopefully for the fans, this one does too.
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My take on this is to not at all be offended by this sort of content, but not to really get anything out of it either. It’s like all the American Pie presents films.. Rather than focusing on the ‘comedy’ of sexual situations they’ve simply become excuses to see tits at the expense of any substance or indeed comedy.
Am I supposed to find it sexually appealing? The mentally vacuous “stripper with huge breasts” ‘type’ isn’t exactly what I’m into, so fail there. Am I supposed to find it funny? Well I’ll reserve judgement until the game, but this video doesn’t really show any parodycomedic element to the sex other than the fact that it’s sexist (comedy revolution there, huh), so it looks like a fail there too. Will it contribute to gameplay? Doubtful. Will it contribute to story? Doubtful. All it’s there to do is to coin Duke’s character, which is likely made abundantly clear by the first one-liner of the first sexual situation.
The sex in Duke 3D was (if I recall correctly) just stuff you could observe while you passed through a level. If the sex in this game takes up your time with unskippable cutscenes etc, unless there are some completely unexpected and comedic twists to the situations, I have a feeling it will just come off as weak, uninspired content.
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@gwathdring
I don’t know quite what to make of all this constant Duke-outrage. It is clear that some of you are taking Duke far more seriously than its creators ever intended it to be taken. And I’m certainly not going to be lured into an actual discussion about sexism in our society.
That’s the thing, though – you are creating a real discussion where there is need for none. To my understanding Duke Nukem is a self-aware franchise. You and Alec are treating this game as if it’s designed to indulge the worldview of crude, sexist knuckle-draggers. It’s not. You are not getting the joke.
Duke is supposed to be tastelessly over-the-top and offensive. That’s the whole point. It is meant to amuse you by virtue of how ridiculous and juvenile it all is. Duke is very much tongue-in-cheek. No, it isn’t any sort of clever, biting social satire, nor is it intended to be. It’s not meant to make any sort of point – which is pretty much the difference between a “spoof” and a “satire”.
I think you realize all this, and yet you don’t, not really. You acknowledge it in passing yet in practice you continue to treat it with the utmost stone-faced, socio-analytical seriousness as if you are completely oblivious to the nature of the franchise. There’s some sort of weird cognitive dissonance going on here that I’m not sure I have either the time or the ability to analyze. My only ideas are thus:
Consciously or unconsciously:
1: You feel the need to prove to others/yourself that you are sophisticated/whatever by voicing objection to Duke, or (1b) you feel that since Duke is offensive and immature, not eagerly pointing that out would make you somehow complicit in tolerating offensive attitudes.
2: You believe in some sort of moral code which disapproves of offensiveness even in obvious parody form.
3: You do indeed believe the game may actually end up reinforcing or creating sexist attitudes, and oppose it on those grounds.
4: You genuinely cannot comprehend the nature of humor – something which is impossible to explain but natively understood by most humans. You are viewing the game through the eyes of an autistic with a social conscience.
It certainly isn’t simply that you don’t think it’s funny. (Hell, I don’t think it’s all that funny.) No – you seem to find it genuinely outrageous, not simply “lame”.
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I can’t speak for anybody else but I’ll have a 3 and a 1b (If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem), but not 1a.
I reject 2 on the basis that Duke Nukem only wishes it were a parody, and I reject 4 on the basis that, while I like to think I have quite a good sense of humour, saying “It was just a joke” does not excuse being a dick.
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On “getting the joke”.. I am absolutely aware enough of gaming and Duke to acknowledge the tongue-in-cheek intentions behind it, but is the reality of a game which is sexist or puerile “for fun” any different to a game which is sexist or puerile because its creators actually are? If Duke can get away with all this as a joke (seemingly) without actually injecting irony or wit into the content to differentiate it from the genuinely crass, then that kind of justification can be used for anything and everything. Want to put gratuitous rape in your film? No problem. See how ridiculous it is to put this in a film? That’s the joke! Har har!
It seems to me that the assumed intentions of the creators are not a sound basis to judge the content of the work on, as many who come into contact with it will not be aware of its background. The work itself has to communicate anything it wants to be judged by.
I’m not saying this content should not be in a game.. I actually stand by the idea that art is precisely the place where any and all questionable content belongs, because it can then be observed, considered, discussed, enjoyed, hated, etc without physically occurring.
My issue is this: If you want to claim that sexism in Duke is justified, saying it is so because it is “a joke” is a very weak justification. It’s either OK to have sexism in a game or it isn’t. Using comedic intent as a criteria is very shaky ground as obviously that intent cannot be apparent to everyone. Comedy offends people all the time. You can’t make offensive comedy and then claim that the people who are offended are at fault for “not getting it”.
If you stand by its right to have this content then you must stand by its right to be offensive.
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@ Grape Flavor
Well said my man, well said.
I got a useless sociology degree from uni, so I do know media and cultural attitudes effect people and foster stereotypes. The difference is that in Duke’s case these attitudes are not presented at all realistically or persuasively. One could argue a movie like Animal House presents a pseudo-realistic portrayal of college life that fosters that kind of behavior in future college students, but Duke Nukem is fucking Duke Nukem. As Grape says the whole point of it is to be insanely over-the-top and hyper-sexual/hyper-violent. I suppose it is not strictly satire, but it is the macho man persona taken to the heights of absurdity for fun and amusement. Searching material like that for reasonable, realistic or wholesome portrayals of women is about the stupidest this you could do, and rightly so.
I get upset at bikini models selling my beer, or on the flip-side buff and shirtless men selling my wife perfume, like any good liberal should. Stuff like this though is insane for a reason, and for fun, and acting like you’re above it and it’s wrong in some way just makes you look stuck-up and pretentious, in my opinion. Like people who buy green products and electric cars more so they can point that out than because they care about the environment.
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@ edit
Of course I stand by “the right to be offensive.” The idea that anything offensive to anyone should be banned, shunned or hidden away makes me want to vomit.
It doesn’t surprise me some people have this view though. The media perpetuates it with their 24/7 stories on poor innocent people who were offended by something and how wrong that is. On top of that we have the assholes I mentioned in my last post who seek to constantly prove their maturity, intelligence and (let’s be blunt) liberalism by going above and beyond to prove how not racist, capitalist, offending, consumerist or insensitive they are.
There are people on television telling me retarded needs to be the “r-word” now, even though retarded has a real definition that means something, it’s just slang for certain types of disabilities. So what if some people use it as a tease or insult? People can use anything as a tease or insult! It’s insanity… it’s political correctness gone haywire and to the extreme. Anything, no matter how well-intentioned, can be taken to a bad extreme.
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I’m with you there – I believe that when it boils down to it, “being offended” is a purely egoic thing and is essentially self-invited “suffering” that is indulged in for gratification and to justify further indulgence in addictive emotions such as anger, all the while projecting the blame for this indulgence on the offender. A good dose of Buddhist Nirvana, among other things, can cure this disorder.
Of course, it’s somewhat understandable to be offended when someone directly attacks or insults you (although it is still ego ultimately), but being offended by a word regardless of context, etc, is quite ridiculous.
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I hope you two realize there’s just as much public attention to all of the people actively attacking and debasing individuals based on their various sexual identities, races, genders, etc. To say that the media plasters us with needy, whining people who can’t take the heat and ought to get out of the kitchen is to ignore … a lot of media.
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@ grape flavor RE: your list.
I’m a little disappointed. Point 4 is extremely rude and close minded. We can disagree about what is funny and what isn’t, and what is fun and what isn’t without me being mentally or emotionally deficient.
Your presumption is quite wrong. I “simply don’t find it funny”. Really. I spend a lot of time on the internet and off talking to people in depth about things I don’t find important. I find discussion itself interesting and enjoyable on most subjects. I don’t mean to take it particularly seriously and apologize if I’ve been confusing on that point.
I am no more trying to prove myself by posting here than you are by posting in response. Neither of us is aware of our unconscious motives so neither one of us can say that is or isn’t part of this. I personally don’t believe in a complex unconscious liked Freud’s which contains things like “I want to prove myself by showing I’m not sexist,” rather I think the unconscious is less pre-frontal-cortex-ish and more about conditioning/sensory response/habit. Back to Duke.
As stated above, I don’t think the game is damaging or important. It reinforces sexism insomuch as it includes negative stereotypes, regardless of intent. I will confidently say it does not reinforce with any significant strength that will effect gamers or society. I will say with equal confidence that an entire gaming culture filled with the elements in Duke Nukem would have an effect. So does Duke counteract the reinforcement with some ulterior motive or even just a diffusive air of humor? I don’t find it funny, so for me it doesn’t work via the latter. I also think it’s redundant and lacking refreshingly brazen content leaving it both boring and mildly offensive. Whether or not I think it’s a big deal, the only notable effect Duke has on me is irritation.
Mostly at this point I’m curious. What makes Duke different, makes it worth attention and defense, makes it less worthy of irritation than beer and perfume commercials. Those are often also intended to be fun or amusing. I don’t see a distinction. It’s such tired material. I wonder: what makes it compelling?
Finally, I’m fully aware that the advertisements are not the game, and my comments are based solely on awareness of the ad campaign.
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Nice list Grape Flavour. As for myself: Firmly, consciously, option 1 a, thank you.
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I’ll just pop my Pop-Psychology hat on for a moment here… I get the impression that Duke’s rampant flaunting of his (hetero)sexuality at every opportunity and his over the top machismo are merely a pretence to the world. He’s trying to compensate for something here, or to throw us in the wrong direction in regards to his true sexuality. Yes, that’s right… I believe Duke is in the closet. His (very phallic) Cigar that he is constantly carrying/chewing/salivating over is another give away. Hell, just look at him… give him a moustache and he’s a Tom of Finland (Touko Laaksonen) character… the boots, the skin-tight denim, the vest, the crew cut, the military-fetishistic accessories. Duke is as bent as a 9 Bob note.
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Not to mention his immense interest for dildos, if you remember that video. Sadly, I do.
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I’d love to see this actually revealed in the game. Hell, make Duke come out Samus Aran style at the end of the game. Rescues all the women (or whatever the point of the game is), and some tart comes up all seductive to him, and in that horribly over the top raspy silly voice Duke responds, “Sorry babe… but I’m gay. Seriously? You didn’t know?” It would recontextualize the entire series. All those double entendres are now just straight forward comments, and anyone attracted to the game to play some fantasy machismo womanizing tough guy will realize that they just played… well a fantasy machismo gay tough guy. Worlds would collapse. Tom of Finland indeed.
This will not happen.
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Yeah, it’s been obvious for a while that he’s deeply, deeply in the closet.
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That’s what gay people always say. “He’s too ‘manly’, he must be gay.”
By that definition, every 13 year old boy is super-gay. And every male human in the 80s. ;)
Look up XYY syndrome. Some men are actually too manly. Many of them become murderers, rapists and Duke Nukems. :P
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If we sidestep your gross generalisation, please define manly.
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@BAREFOOT
Er … both from the article you posted and from prior knowledge of XYY, I would like to point out that most people (the link you posted says 97%, and I don’t remember a stat from genetics) have no symptoms. There is also more of a connection to learning disabilities than to … rape and murder … which are not empirically connected with being XYY. People with XYY even have normal testosterone levels.
Non-disjunction in (the cause of excess sex chromosomes) isn’t that uncommon primarily because the most common forms of these events don’t cause problems in most people and those that do cause problems don’t even lead to viable embryos let alone unhealthy individuals. XXY causes even fewer difficulties than XYY because mammals can shut down extra X chromosomes in a cell (hence why women don’t have the issues associated with too many genes being expressed despite being born XX). So more risky than XXY … but where the hell did you pull rape and murder out of?
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See, I just thought it’d be great if Duke was gay.
For instance, I don’t really know what’s going on during the scene with the thumbs up, but I’m pretty that’s meant to reveal Duke as a bottom.
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It is pretty obvious. Just look at him! http://www.3drealms.com/fanstuff/keenstory/duken-1.gif
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I lol’d. Why? Boobs is why.
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Funbags
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I’m thinking there needs to be a mod to put boobs on duke!
lol 3d tranny pov porn.
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I think it’s safe to say the only way to turn Duke into a tranny is to give him a dick
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Lazy, boring. If you’re going to make a trans joke, make a fucking joke. I’m so sick of people being lazy about this, it makes me want to vomit on you. LOL TRANS PEOPLE EXIST.
LOL, LAZY FUCKING MORONS EXIST.
Good grief.
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@Serenegoose: Dude… get some therapy.
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Apologies. Allow me to apply a sedate filter. I should have known that such acidic hyperbole was above my station. I’ll be on my way now, to all the therapy I ought to have.
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I kinda thought I was making a duke nukem joke, but whatever… clearly we aren’t allowed to mock transsexual people
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Oh, the cruel injustice I have visited upon you! What a sad fate! “I don’t get to pick on the trannies without one calling me out on my bigotry!” Sob fucking sob.
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Was I “picking on the trannies”? No, quite clearly. Someone else brought it up, and I expanded on a joke made elsewhere in the thread that Duke’s gender is in doubt. If that’s picking on the trannies then I’m sorry but the trannies need to sack the fuck up. And yes, saying that trannies need to sack up is also funny.
Seriously, piss off. There’s so not enough here for the faux-moral outrage you’re spewing. I’ll be sure to watch out for you, you crazy troll.
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No, what I was picking on with you specifically was your hurt feelings entitled whine of “Clearly we aren’t allowed to make fun of transsexuals.” You know what? You aren’t. You really aren’t. You show me some (more than a token 1 or 2) positive media portrayals of trans people and I’ll accept we can be fair game. Until then, no, piss off, all you’re contributing to is an overwhelming global culture that OKs the utterly shocking amount of violence done to trans people. The first thing I was picking on, however, is that even when you -do- deign to acknowledge that we exist, and it is -exclusively- to mock us, it’s the same joke every time. The same one! It’s like we’re not even worth the effort to mock properly so you just trot out the same shitty macho-man with random feminine attribute every single time. Frankly, I think such a piss-poor one joke repertoire from most cisgender people on earth ought to be mocked, so I will.
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Fuck you, nobody gets to accuse me of condoning violence against innocent people. It was an innocent little mock of Popular Game Character that you’ve decided to assault as everything that’s wrong with the society that you’re so convinced shuns you. That isn’t my problem, dude, I was just making a little joke. That doesn’t make me part of some “global problem”, it doesn’t make me fair game for your insane vitriol, and it doesn’t make me complicit in acts of violence against transgender people! Get real!
I’m not even going to approach your whole “make a better joke” thing because frankly I’ve got no idea what the fuck you’re talking about. If you think a joke isn’t funny then move on, don’t pontificate that BECAUSE YOUR JOKE ISN’T FUNNY YOU’RE COMMITTING A HATE CRIME!
The difference between you and me is that while I was just mocking a fictional character for having gender issues in the face of overbearing machismo, you’re literally accusing me of condoning and contributing to real life acts of violence against an oppressed minority. You’re the asshole here and that’s totally unfair, so fuck off.
You’re a head case, and this is totally insane, seek help. Psychopath. #thatisall
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Nothing I could possibly say could get through to you, so I’ll save my breath. I’ve gotten quite angry enough today.
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No, because you’re talking crap. I understand exactly what your point is – you think by making jokes that involve the word “tranny” i’m complicit in persecuting transgender people – I just think it’s a load of bollocks. There’s nothing to “get through”. Thanks for playing.
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If you can’t see how insulting trans people IS being part of a culture that persecutes trans people, then I just don’t know how to explain it in simpler terms.
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That would probably be because I don’t condone it, and I wouldn’t stand for it if it happened within any distance of me, and I’d defend to the death peoples’ right to behave in more or less any way they choose so long as they don’t infringe on anyone else’s right to behave how they choose in the process. I wouldn’t dream of permitting or performing any kind of discriminatory act against an individual on any grounds and being told that I’m complicit in violent discrimination makes me pretty upset, to be honest. Making a joke does NOT equate to reinforcing or supporting that discrimination. It’s just a fucking joke. If you’re so insecure about your position that you think your group should be off the table then all you’re doing is discriminating against everybody else who you think *should* be fair game. The attitude that one’s own group are somehow above being poked fun at is fucking disgusting and shameful. And making that joke does NOT condone abuse or discrimination against that group. Saying it does doesn’t make it so. I can say by brushing your teeth you’re contributing to el nino but it doesn’t make it so, and seeing as you haven’t bothered to give any argument for why that’s the case I’m perfectly comfortable sticking to “no it doesn’t” and “what makes you think you can accuse another person of committing or condoning violent acts against the person, you horrible shit”
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I’ve already explained my reasoning. I’ve clearly not convinced you as you have utterly failed to convince me. I’m unwilling to allow myself to be goaded into a circular argument.
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There was something about how transgender people don’t get “positive media portrayals” (who does?) but that’s about it. And if I’m goading you it’s only because you’re goading me – lets’ not forget who made the first derogatory comment as you’re so clearly keen to with all this backpedalling
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I appreciate your passion on this one, but you missed the point. I can tell because it clipped your hair. I’m not making fun of transgendered people. I’m making fun of duke nukem, lol boobies, and the frat boy mentality.
off hand, I’m an attorney in texas, I spend my pro bono time doing name changes and ancillary issues for transgendered people.
Now then, back to my puerile. Lol seriousness.
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I love how it’s somehow Bilbo’s job to convince Serenegoose of something when Serenegoose is the one who came careening in here all red-faced, flailing arms and caps lock keyed to accuse him of bigotry for making if anything, a mild joke. It’s just so much richer because it’s in a thread about Duke Nukem (of all things) and the default topic is shamelessly objectifying women.
Beyond that, grow a thicker skin. You are who you are, and no one else is obliged to bend over backwards and dance on your command to not step on your apparently raw and very delicate sense of self worth. No one needs to convince you of anything because you won’t be convinced of anything. You’re here to wield some moral trump card you’ve granted yourself as a weapon and when that doesn’t work you decide to equate some mild mockery with violence.
Try not being a bully if you want people to respect who you are. And if you can’t deal with that and insist on getting gravely offended by the internet … then to paraphrase you: Boo. Hoo.
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@Serenegoose I’m with you on this.
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Wow you just managed to talk a whole lot of shit Serenegoose. Why don’t you go ‘vomit’ on another site
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Wow everyone rips on everyone now-a-days. Serengoose, your pathetic. If you are trans-gender by choice; you are damn strange and well, you should be mature and intelligent enough to accept that oddities like yourself will be ridiculed, directly or by proxy. If by nature, stop taking off-hand comments by random internet commentators who clearly don’t know you as a personal jibe.
Troll fed a day late
HAR HAR BEWBZ
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I think they are both in the wrong. Bilbo should simply have said ‘sorry it wasn’t my intention to offend you’, but Serengoose shouldn’t have got so aggressive about it. So, whatever.
Somewhat related, I once saw a 6 foot 6 transvestite with massive tits and a huge handle bar moustache. If they weren’t the coolest person on earth I don’t know who is.
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Sure Gonzo, and while we’re at it everyone who’s ever made a joke ever also needs to apologise, because that is all I did.
Seriously I have nothing to apologise for, and wading in a day late with a pronouncement like that is pretty odd behaviour
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FYI, Bilbo, “It’s just a joke, lighten up” is the tiredest, lamest, stupidest excuse. Own up to your words or shut the fuck up.
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you know i used to be one of these people who’d always go on about being conciliatory and reasoned and measured in their responses to callousness or stupidity. then i realized that callousness and stupidity are in many ways the opposite of the former. darkness is the absence of light. so on the contrary, bullying and beating with a big stick really probably is the best method of getting a point across.
if you’re not stupid or overly prideful, the method of imparting wisdom shouldn’t really bother you too much before you decide to come around. this includes both the beater and the beatee.
may the more just win. bigups Serenegoose.
p.s. DNF sucks and so does everyone who looks forward to it.
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Inquiring minds want to know: why doesn’t it look that good?
I swear I’ve seen much better boobs in older games.
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Dear Duke:
Since you’ve been gone we’ve developed all these websites with actual live-action porn videos, so we don’t really need your creepy uncanny-valley “babes” in our games anymore.
Thanks, anyways.
– The Internet.
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Because “next-generation” graphics.
The 2001 trailer looked less plastic. Of course, it also wasn’t complete HURR.
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Are the boobs going to be censored in the real game?
God I hate Japanese porn
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Breasts aren’t usually censored in Japanese porn, just genitalia. That aside, the better question would be, will there even be an opportunity to have breasts be censored in DNF? Or will it all just be a tease?
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Also, given the theme I’m sad no one sank to this level
Duke Nukem is baiting you..
—A masterful performance
(35, have children, I’m in my second puerile.)
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Duke is a master baiter amirite?
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I bestow on you one puerile!
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Lol, breasts.
Am…am I doing this right?
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Indeed sir! You’ve trolled Sir Meer quite well with this one. They’ll be talking of this in the corner sodashops for weeks!
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Y’know for a trailer all about how women have breasts, those breasts looked pretty crummy.
Some really low quality character models in there and really bad voice work.
Still what do you expect from a game so old that it features the Olsen Twins?
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+1 for chest cannons.
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Ah, a page from the Penny Arcade school of conflict resolution.
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lol, words!
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Heheh … titilation.
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It’s fine. Duke is just Duke, a machismo character straight out from a late 70s-80s movie with big guns, big steroid muscles, ridiculous brush hair and a craving for big breasts. Was already the case in duke nukem 3D btw and there’s nothing shocking in it, or the world has gone mad.
I find kinda weird that some people raise an eyebrow when trailers like this one emerge about a parodic game/character, but are a-okay with Dragon Age 2 having released entire dev sneak-peek about sex/romance related content during the marketing campaign.
Expecting boobs and gross humor in a duke nukem game seems far more sensible to me than trying to turn a rpg in a dating simulator. But who am I to judge,. Lol, Boobs.
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Lol boobs is about all I could think after that.
It wasn’t really very hot, or very interesting.
Or for that matter, very offensive I thought. Yeah, it’s sub-playboy level fantasy pandering. But thats kinda what I was expecting. It’s dumb, it’s not presenting at all believable characters – but then you could say any of those things about the Duke himself.
Hmm, I see yet again more people suggesting that Duke Nukem is meant to be a satire parody. I’ve never seen any suggestion that this is the case.
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“I do know this,” he offered; “the game has a lot of wild fun with this, and is at times satirical. “ – Randy Pitchford
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-22-duke-nukem-forever-pitchford-welcomes-feminist-anger
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Regardless of intent, watching Gearbox try to be funny has always been like watching a drunken friend knock over a wedding cake in slow motion.
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… which is a pretty funny sight to behold, actually.
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LOL, i love the new Duke for being just as Political Incorrect as the old one. Nothing annoys me more than 30+ old nerds on a crusade against “sexism and homophobia” in computer games. Gaming is NOT serious business.
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but sexism and homophobia are.
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Come now, “mod the world” isn’t a woman or gay so he doesn’t give a damn about that.
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There is such a thing as worthwhile or even meaningful bad taste. The (good) films of Mel Brooks for example or Shappi Korsandi whose entire act is based around that wierd white middleclass racism you get.
Then theres Duke Nukem which comes out and makes jokes that were made years ago. Not offensive. Not challenging. Not even in bad taste. Just pathetic. Like Jim Davidson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hetni5Nqyfg
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@chris:
So is for example rape, war and I don’t know, being impotent ? That’s not why you shouldn’t joke about it anyway.
http://www.myspace.com/video/michael/george-carlin-rape-can-be-funny/8512313
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The Great Wayne
There’s a difference between jokes about homophopia and sexism and jokes that are homophobic or sexist.
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More importantly a homophobic/racist/chauvinistic joke is not the same as a funny homophobic/racist/chauvinistic joke.
For example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TtLSYbFGUQ&feature=player_embedded
Being “refreshingly unPC” is not enough to carry eight hours of a campaign relying so heavily on comedy.
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There is only one rule: Nobody has the right to get special treatment and not to be made fun of. No exceptions. Not even gay black Jewish foreign baby girls whose fluffy puppy just splattered right in their faces.
Making fun of some group is not discrimination.
Taking some group out of that fun-making, is discriminating all others though.
And by the way: Treating some people better than others is not wrong. We all treat our friends better. For obvious reasons: Those people are called friends because they are good for us.
What’s really stupid though, is treating people badly that are good for us, because of some delusional prejudice (aka ignorance).
But that’s really way far off of making fun of things.
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Yeah, the actual sexism here is more pathetic than offensive. In general I’d say that sexism in video game content is a smaller problem than sexism among video game players.
But let’s be honest here–the point of Duke Nukem’s sexism is a combination of fantasy indulgence and being “provocative” just to show that you don’t care what other people think. And that’s where some of Duke’s fans become most pathetic–if you kids are so proud of how you don’t give a damn what feminists say, why are you so pissed off at what feminists say? This game is outright trolling and baiting people who care about sexism, and doing so in a completely passive aggressive way.
@Barefoot, you can tell whatever jokes you want. And the rest of of us are allowed to think less of you for it.
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@Consumotopia
I would Opinion Away but you pretty much just did it for me.
Possibly apart from the sexism in games being less important than the sexism amongst players. Both are heavily interrelated, no?
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@TheApologist, yeah, they very well might be interrelated. I suppose the most worrying thing about sexist game content is that it’s in the context of a players treating each other in sexist ways.
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I’m 26 and far too old for this nonsense. As to if I like boobs or not, I do but this is polygons and not very many of them at that.
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It is true that a 400 polygon boob with jiggle physics is more satisfying than a meagre 100 polygon boob rendered in the Source Engine. The Alyx Vance boob is a mere shadow compared with that of more recent, geometrically gifted specimens. I should also like to see how the latest Unreal Engine iteration handles side-boob.
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LOL badly rendered boobs!
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So, Leisure Suit Larry with guns, then?
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No, Larry was funny. And mostly dedicated to mocking terrible behavior.
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I haven’t seen anything in these videos that seems like anything more than silly roleplay. There is a mile wide gap between “here are some sexy ladies” and stuff that is actually sexist, and with all these statements from Mr. Pitchford I believe that that Gearbox will very likely stay on the right side of that.
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This is trash.
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I’m Commander Shepard, and these are my favorite breasts on the Citadel. LOL
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This. This is humo(u)r.
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Regretting this now, aren’t you Alec?
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ahhh…. the wonders of zero gravity. or silicon. or both.
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Agh, this is so annoying. I need to see the game. I need to see whether it actually parodies this shit or only pretends to parody it. There’s a difference, and everyone talking about it is just too much white noise!
/not actually, genuinely complaining, because the irony alone about complaining via internet comment about lots of internet commenting would kill me.
Wait, so am I actually not complaining or only pretending not to complain to mask the fact that I’m complaining. Fucking recursion.
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Soon you’ll suffer from a stack overflow!
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OK, that video made me chuckle.
They know it. They’re not embarrassed about it. They exploit it.
And I must admit I kind of like that attitude.
Although I won’t buy their game.
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Compared to a lot of film, tv and music videos this is incredibly tame.
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Of course it’s tame. It’s pitched at 12yr-olds who giggle when they encounter the number ’69′.
The problem for Gearbox is that whilst this game is of interest primarily to those who played Duke 3D back in 1996, most of us have actually grown up since then.
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@Rii
I find the idea that a grown man can’t enjoy silly shit like this incredibly pretentious. There is a lot of fun to be had in the absurd. When I played through Bulletstorm did I want to be the main character or start talking like him? Of course not, but there is a lot of fun to be had in the idea of someone screaming “dicktits” and blasting holes in mutants while drinking a beer. It’s ludicrous and crass and amusing as hell because of it.
Sorry you don’t get it.
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@StingingVelvet
Take 300 or Sin City. Both films crank the machismo, ultraviolence and female objectification knobs to 11, and yet both can be enjoyed by adults as harmless indulgences in adolescent mentality or exercises in pure style. Duke Nukem’s problem is that it seems to think that it’s transgressive: “ooh, look what we did in a video game”. Same problem the terrorist mission in MW2 had. And most of us have outgrown that phase where we stifle laughter behind our hands after saying ‘pussy’.
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It’s good to see badly rendered bojangles wobbling around in all their low-poly, clipping through each other kinda way. I used to love Eurotrash on TV when I was younger, because it was the only programme that had tits and stupid sexy humour, I’m rather hoping the Duke scratches the same itch.
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Guh, just watched the video.
I’m not the only one reminded of the uncanny valley character models of VTM: Bloodlines, am I? Specifically VV.
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Yeah definitely agree with you there, certainly had that VTM:B vibe to it.
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Chortle, mammaries.
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I’m 30, and i loved the trailer.
I’ll happily add my vote to the “LOL, Boobs” crowd.
DNF is obviously taking the piss out of every action movie / hero ever made.
Overly muscled protagonist,
“Hollywood” type Chicks with large boobs and small outfits.
Over the Top Gunplay,
Crass and “sticky” humor..
All laced with Steroids and One-Liners…
I can’t fuckin’ wait, it’s gonna be awesome..
“Yeah, but after 12 fuckin’ years, it should be..”
;)
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I’m not sure all of the LOL BOOBS crowd are actually lolling at boobs. We’re very meta here, you know.
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Looks to me like they’re trying too hard. I suspect this is heading straight for the internet bargain bin.
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The ad campaign is purile, but so was Duke Nukem 3D. I’ve been replaying it and things so far seem in character. Maybe folks with rose tinted glasses don’t want to admit that they enjoy that humour and Duke 3D was from a more innocent time or something. Now some people don’t like it which is in no way their fault. It just means they’ve grown up and their tastes changed. I don’t like this trailer. It’s not showing enough of the game and it makes me feel like they are worried about gamers reactions to the actual gameplay. I’m not expecting the second coming of fps games, I just want it to play like the old Duke.
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The part that is unintentionally funny is that you are already this depraved. Duke is not nearly as rebellious as he thinks he is, because he already mocked the establishment, years ago, and in the mean time polite society has become weaker, morally, than he is.
If he truly wanted to stand out against various products-of-their-times, like the characters in other games, he would take a stand on moral principles, and then live his life accordingly. What makes people uncomfortable in this age? Homosexuals? Jews? Conservation? Belief in a particular god?
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half way though the game you have to head to the mosque to make sure duke’s imam is okay. at the ending sequence he brushes past all the bikini clad babes to get to his boyfriend in the back row who is a jewish man who believes in rainforest conservation.
scene: pigcop eats like ten bags of doritoes and an entire jug of mtn. dew and tosses them on the floor
duke busts in and fills him with lead
duke: throw your waste in the trash, motherfucker.
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Xenophobia is a major issue today, so what would probably piss people off is the Duke putting down his gun at some point and brokering a lasting peace by doing something absolutely amazing, something that likely involves self-sacrifice. The message would then be: This is Duke. Duke Nukem. if he can do that, then why can’t you? That would fill me with no end of glee.
So at the end of the game, instead of fighting the boss, Duke decides, for whatever reason, to throw aside his gun and risk his life to save the guy, after seeing building evidence that perhaps these aliens had a good reason to be pissed off, one that spanned an era of time that goes beyond human imagining, revolving around issues that would see reality entirely collapse if they were to fail in whatever they were trying to do. Past that point, he helps them achieve their goals and finds out that doing things their way, everyone gets to survive, humanity included. That would leave a lot of people pissed off, but a few strangely sated and happy.
I guess what I’m saying is this: Get Grant Morrison to write the script of the next Duke Nukem game.
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I’d rather you beat the game, triumphantly defeating the final boss and then get treated to a lovely end cutscene. People cheering, women throwing themselves at you, a nice big victory cigar. Then cut to the Duke laying in hospital recovering, being waited on hand and foot by a couple of sexy young nurses with enormous boobs.
At which point a doctor comes in and informs you that during some routines tests they found some problems. Turns out the Duke has an advanced stage of liver disease from all the booze, lung cancer from all the smoking and some kind of horrific STD from all the whoring. Couple this with some nice and graphic real world pictures. Obviously all the lovely ladies won’t touch him now that they know he has an STD. Maybe show how much pain is involved going through strong doses of chemo. Sat in bed with no hair, barely able to walk. Dead 6 months later.
Oh and you only get your Achievements if you stay all the way to the end credits.
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duke nukem forever is a grandpa i sort of liked for some reason when he was absent for like 10+ years but now that he’s back i noticed the only thing he does is talk about his balls and harass women while pretending he’s still 30.
grandpa stop you’re embarrassing everyone :(
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You hit the nail on its head.
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I can’t believe anyone could seriously find this sexist. Funny is another question, but look at this game for what it is: its so clearly in an outdated fantasy world, that doesn’t exist anywhere but in..well, Duke Nukem any more, the game’s ridiculousness is celebrating how totally unrelated to reality this entire aesthetic is. Think of it, if you will, in terms of Barthes’ Mythologies. Duke Nukem is analogous to Professional Wrestling: it gives us a world with its own rules, were babes are buxom and men are cigar-chomping titans of manliness and aliens are there to get there asses stomped. What is sexist is the insistence in Hollywood and mainstream gaming that if a female character must appear, she must look like a supermodel – that is the first principle, all women must be attractive, and wear revealing clothes. Insisting on sexist, degrading (for all women who do not look like models) standard which applies to all serious exploration of female characters in popular American media. Even if a female character is deep, flawed and nuanced, she must be attractive to the male audience first and foremost (this applies to men also, but far, far less). There’s a mythology we should be worried about.
Duke Nukem tells nothing about the real world, if it is sexist towards women, it is equally so towards men. In reality it is neither, its ballsy, cack-handed approach to the Nukem aesthetic is opnely, joyously ridiculous. To be honest the videos I don’t find at all funny, but it does give me a certain warm feeling inside, I guess a (false?) nostalgia for more (probably unremembered) innocent times, back when a film being sexist didn’t pretend it wasn’t being so.
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Lol boobs xD
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While of course whether the game is any good remains to be seen.
Have to say that there’s a strong argument to make that this marketing and this DN schtick used to be charming and a tad refreshing, i think at this stage it has slipped beyond post-modern irony, gone full circle lost ANY tiny iota of satirical merit it may have once had and is back at being crass, lazy and just plain stupid. I mean Christ this is delay numbner 122768736498383879898 and to distract from this absurd fact they chuck a few tits at you hoping you’ll stare and make “boobs/ tits LOL” jokes long enough to forget that this game MIGHT just end up being the biggest waste of time ever as you realise it’s mediocre at best and you’ve waited this long for nothing and that you might as well go back and play earlier itenerations of Duke games. Whilst no doubt (This would be a bonus) hoping you’ll go “haha oh how ironic and satirical you are Duke!”
Sorry not buying.
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A tear was shed.
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Great. This thread only served to revive memories of a friend recounting his thrilled experiences with Flesh Gordon and Power Pasties. And I’ll offer the same response now that I did then:
Sigh.
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Surprised nobody’s said this yet, but I’m a massive fan of tongue in cheek boobs.
I suspect that the satirical nature of the original ‘Duke’ has been somewhat exaggerated over the years and complaining about the puerile nature of its eventual sequel sounds a bit like nu-games journalism peering down from an elevated perch.
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The amount of whinny little people who sits around proclaim that “THEY ARE BETTER THEN ALL THIS” is annoying.
Have you people never played Duke Nukem 3D.
THIS is pretty much in character for that kind of game and i for one SALUTE IT!.
You guys remind me of that one guy you sometimes see in a strip club.
Sitting with his friends and loudly proclaiming that “HE is better then all this” and “HE respect women to dam much to get a lap dance” you know a douche.
It is okay to watch a pair of boobs at times and not act like a you are some kind of morale crusader OUT TO SAVE THE WORLD AND WOMEN KIND!!!!
IT is fun to live a little and be a bit of a child of times.
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You fail to take into account the fact that I am better than this.
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you remind me of that one guy on the internet who always pisses his pants in rage every time someone is bothered by casual misogyny.
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(@db) Thank you for this insight into your thought processes. :)
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hmmm
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…And then there’s the guy who will clutch at any straw and shout louder than everyone else to rationalise his low standards.
I and i am sure many of the objectors on here have enjoyed Duke Nukem games down the years and their knowing and tongue in cheek humour. We’re not on some kind of PC perch looking down on you. We just have something called STANDARDS.
If you’re gona hit us with some satire/ tongue in cheek humour/ irony you better make it FUNNY, it’s the MAIN ingredient. All i and many people are saying is that this schtick USED to be funny, briefly clever, but it has gotten old, it’s rehashed and lazy and it has veered towards the unpleasent by not apparently containing anything that biting or funny. It now stinks of being a marketing gimmick to stoke the fire of a hype for a game they can’t manage to put out on time!
Lucky there’s an army of berks who’ll swallow it uncritically. Live a little! use your brains!
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Yes, and every new video like this makes me more embarrassed that I ever liked Duke Nukem 3D. It makes me realize that my hypocritical attitude toward Duke Nukem 3D was apparently:
“Give me a little bit of titillating sexism, but not too much!”
Now, I think I’d rather just have no sexism, thank you very much.
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I fully appreciate the fact that video games can be a form of beautiful art. They can convey messages and present experiences that no other form of media can. The level of interactivity required presents wonderful possibilities for the betterment and enrichment of peoples’ lives.
But this is Duke Nukem.
I’m normally a completely nice guy to my wife. I help her around the house, we split the cooking duties. I try to be fairly romantic for the most part.
But every once in a while I slap her on the ass, shove my hand down her pants and call her sugartits.
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Lucky girl.
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I’m with you, Phosgene. Not in any kinda spit-roast way (we’re curious, mind), but I understand what you’re saying. As does Mrs Tupper – both a gamer and victim of my inept advances.
The guy’s called Duke Nukem for fuck’s sake.
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Those last two posts… wow. You two are pro-trolls. Incredible stuff, but at the same time… so horrible. If there is truly an art to trolling, where you raise it to something that’s both clever and truly awful, you two have achieved this. You’re like living avatars of Encyclopedia Dramatica or something!
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that’s not trolling that’s called being a gamer.
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Wulf I, for one, am most certainly not trolling.
I think that a game of such questionable heritage as Duke Nukem, which was essentially a tablioidised (is that a word?) version of Doom has a certain licence to be crude, vulgar and predictable in its marketing.
And for the record: enjoying tongue-in-cheek misogyny in a game does not necessarily make one a misogynist, any more than enjoying killing people in a game makes one a murderer.
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And for the record: enjoying tongue-in-cheek misogyny in a game …
And it’s not ironically sexist, it’s indulgently sexist–some people fantasize about treating women like Duke does. Now, that doesn’t mean that they actually plan to treat women like this (though, apparently you do), but it gives them pleasure to think about it. It’s a free country, and no one can stop you from fantasizing about whatever you want, but at least have the guts to admit it instead of gawking at “ironic” boobs.
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I’m with consumatopia. This may not be meant to be taken seriously, but it’s also not ironic. I’d argue it’s not even really a parody anymore. And since it’s meant to be a fantasy, not a set of guidelines for proper behavior, I can understand why this is acceptable to a lot of people and even enjoyable to the fans. But while that might change the context, that doesn’t change the content.
I also understand what you mean about the double standard with violence. That’s a fair point. I would argue though that the link between actions in a game and the real world is much more tenuous than the link to attitudes and ideas. It’s easy to dissociate stabbing and clicking. It’s harder to dissociate thinking about in game gangsters in a stereotypical way and thinking about real gangsters in a stereotypical way.
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The only thing I liked about that was the sound Duke made at the end of the video…
Problem is, I’ll still end up playing it because it’s Duke and he was a formative part of my gaming life.
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Ha ha! Bosom.
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My favorite thing about the DNF trolls is that they hold the “it’s just satire” position and the “there’s nothing wrong with this I act like this from time to time and my supposed wife supposedly puts up with it” position simultaneously, even though those positions undermine each other.
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Satire is just a word, you know. A visual clue for you hipster types to know it’s ok to be ironic.
Duke is not satiric, it has never been.
It’s a video game with a crude and exorbitantly macho protagonist, stupid jokes and an incredibly fun gameplay with unprecedented interactivity.
Gee, I wonder why it was so popular. Probably cause people are so sexist, makes me rage!
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This doesn’t appeal to me.
But how on earth is it more offensive than, say, GTA? Or perhaps a more apt comparison would be the Saints Row games, given the deliberate ridiculousness (whereas GTA seems to be taking itself all too seriously these days).
That’s a genuine and only semi-rhetorical question — I would be interested in discussion if anyone feels like playing along.
I assume it’s something to do with sexism hitting closer to home for most of us, and feeling more ‘real’ than murder etc., and more likely to have a direct influence on, and/or be a direct reflection of the real-world attitudes of, the players?
That argument does make some sense to me, as far as it goes. But personally I reckon media which glamorises or normalises criminal violence is also a reflection of and influence on society — even though the vast majority of us are never going to commit any violent crimes, the way a topic is presented to us in books, films, games, etc. right through our lives is inevitably going to have some effect.
Perhaps if the prevailing media portrayal of violent criminals was that of pathetic low-lives unworthy of respect or affection, rather than this sort of half-half thing we seem to have going, where they’re simultaneously condemned and glamorised, violence would seem less attractive to a few of those on the edge.
Obviously I can’t prove this, but it seems no less plausible than the argument that casual sexism/misogyny in the media reinforces real-world sexism/misogyny (which, to some extent, it most likely does).
And if it’s just the ‘sad reflection on society’ or simply ‘offensive because it portrays something awful in a light-hearted, positive way’ thing, surely that goes at least as strongly for a whole lot of the violent games we play, including the ones that barely cop any criticism because we’re so used to violence as entertainment that only the really extreme stuff raises much of a reaction.
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The biggest difference is that killing in most games is generic–it’s not aimed at a specific demographic group. Whereas sexism is directed at a subset of humanity. The morality of fantasy killing is a complicated debate. But fantasy discrimination, on the other hand, is a lot harder to defend. If you need me to expand upon this, I can, but to most people it should be fairly obvious–if Duke were constantly making racist jokes, they’d find that more objectionable than generic violent conflict. Indeed, in GTA: VC there was a minor race controversy involving the Hatian subplot.
Secondly, there’s the “baiting” aspect of it referred to in the title to these posts. They’re intentionally trying to upset a specific demographic group for the purpose of getting attention and increasing sales. Which, hey, we can’t stop them, but is still kind of a scummy thing to do. And the icing on the cake is acting like there’s something wrong with people not liking you when you deliberately went out of your way to make them not like you.
Nonetheless, to a lot of people what’s offensive is not so much the sexism as how stupid and pathetic it is. It’s not so much that this game represents a threat as it represents a tedious kind of passive-aggressive “political incorrectness” in place of being a good game.
Again, you could make an argument that fantasy killing is really bad, but understand that that’s a much larger argument than video games–you’ll have to argue against a large variety of movies, books, comics and even ancient myths.
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Hmm good question.
I think it’s because when a game depicts violence no one is actually getting hurt. As you say, there amy be a link between violence in games and a more violent society but if that is true, it’s still one step removed.
The difference between that and something like sexism/homophobia in a game is that that will directly affect someone in that group who encounters it. To paraphrase someone (Berzee, I think) in the Bulletstorm debate, it’s fake violence as opposed to real sexism.
Also violence is still relatively rare in our society, at least in comparison to prejudice which you will encounter far more often, especially on gaming sites on the internet.
As to why GTA seems to get away with it, I think possibly we’re just more inclined to forgive it because it was more clever about it. It didn’t (that I recall) make a point of selling itself on sex. It had enough going for it as it was, whereas this trailer appears to just be saying “Buy the game, it has tits in it.” It reeks a bit of desperation, like a faded rockstar trying to convince the kids he’s still got it. On a personal level I think mostly I’m offended because it insults my intelligence. Edit: Actually I’m also offended that it assumes I’m the kind of person who won’t mind if it insults someone who isn’t me.
As an aside it’s also interesting to compare the response to this with the response to “Don’t take it personally, babe. It just ain’t your story.”
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Some fair points there, thanks for the replies.
I guess I might have muddied two issues that are actually separate, as far as most people’s reactions go: effect on real-world behaviour, and intrinsic offensiveness.
I still think my original comment is a fair response to those who lean towards the ‘sexist media causes real sexism’ argument. But your replies definitely make some good points regarding offensiveness.
So yeah, points taken regarding:
-the intentional targeting of specific groups (in this case women, who, like most targets of ‘baiting’, have a long — and, to varying degrees depending on where they are in the world, ongoing — history of being treated in appalling ways)
-’real sexism vs. virtual violence’ (which is why I’m not quite as frustrated as I otherwise would be by people who complain about, say, bad language in Murder Simulator 5000 — I still think most of them need a massive priority shift, but I do have to admit that I’m comparing real swearing with fake violence)
And the relative rarity of violence compared to bigotry and discrimination, which I was intending to acknowledge with my ‘hitting closer to home/feeling more real’ line.
(Also, to clarify, I wasn’t referring to the sex in GTA.)
One response I am inclined to make is that a lot of violent games must be pretty offensive to victims, and families of victims, of violence. But I do understand that there’s a difference between deliberately baiting a group of people for the sake of it, and the ‘collateral damage’ that is almost inevitable when making all but the tamest of jokes and entertainment products.
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I think rather than saying “Sexist media causes real sexism” I’d say “Sexist media is real sexism”, but thanks for having an actual conversation about it rather than just saying “Get over it”, which is a response I find far more annoying than the game itself to be honest.
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Thank you too — I’m always a bit reticent to get on this side of these sorts of discussions, because I know I’m leaving myself wide open to be quickly dismissed as some sort of bigot or insensitive arsehole.
But yeah, “Sexist media is real sexism” is what I was meaning to acknowledge when I agreed I was comparing ‘real sexism to virtual violence’. I didn’t mean to imply that you were one of the people making a ‘sexist media causes real sexism’ argument.
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I’d like to repeat what I said in my previous post – just, sexist media is real sexism, but can you really say that Duke Nukem is actually sexist? What, exactly, is Duke Nukem telling us about women, or men? 99% of female characters in games are buxom sex objects, how is Duke Nukem any worse than this? People compare the game’s bouncy breasts to Vampire Bloodlines, and they are right too – look at the women in that. Jeanette. VV. Heather. They are sex objects. Also brilliantly written, nuanced characters, which is why we still give the game such praise, but their portrayal is essentially sexist (there is no male sex-object central character in the game).
Duke Nukem is no more sexist than this, in fact it is markedly less sexist due to being openly ridiculous. Its puerile, childish, but equally harmless. Teenage boys will find it hilarious, as will those of us who still have our inner teenager intact, but really, it call it sexist is a wholly misdirected. The game is one big dick joke, no-one in 2011 is going to base their views of women on spherical breasted schoolgirls in a throwaway, homage FPS.
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@McCool, there is the “look how cool we are for not giving a damn what women think of us” aspect of DNF. Given that the way adolescent boys will treat female gamers is an ongoing problem, that could make things worse.
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The game doesn’t give a damn about any demographic that it isn’t marketed towards, which of course makes sense. There is nothing sexist about that – Duke Nukem is not a treatise on gender. It is, at heart, a silly game for people who don’t take themselves too seriously. Duke Nukem isn’t even meant to be an exemplar of the FPS genre, by fully embracing the cheesy 80s aesthetic they are wilfully hauling themselves up in a niche. And that’s fine.
If you want an FPS that deals with gender in a modern way, look at Valve’s Left 4 Dead series. Some characters are male, some female. Necessarily you will end up playing both – gender is part of a character’s identity, but no big deal. You also have to suspect that if Valve we to release TF2 again, they’d mix in a few female members into the RED and BLU teams.
Duke Nukem’s bare-faced sexism is so over the top it renders the character, but not the game itself sexist to the point of satire – this is not a game that is meant to be taken seriously.
The only gripe I have against this approach is it’d look a lot better (funnier?) if it was released in the same year as a No One Lives Forever 3. But such a title would make the FPS genre as a whole a better place.
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You’re missing the point–it isn’t that it doesn’t care about women, it’s that it tries to impress us with how little it cares about women. (Which is a bit self-refuting and pathetic–not to mention ironic given the way some of DNF’s defenders are really passionate in their dislike of anyone who dislikes this game).
Duke Nukem’s bare-faced sexism is so over the top it renders the character, but not the game itself sexist to the point of satire – this is not a game that is meant to be taken seriously.
Satire doesn’t just mean “over the top”. It is, of course, not a literal political manifesto or program to reform the world along Duke-friendly lines. But there’s nothing ironic about it–it’s a fantasy for people who enjoy imagining themselves being able to get away with treating women like Duke does.
When the best defense you can muster for something is “this other thing way over there is a bigger problem”, then that thing isn’t worth defending.
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@ OP
I appreciate the nuance of your approach. I guess my gut reaction is that GTA isn’t any better. GTA has substantial problems for exactly the reasons you pointed out, and while parts of the series are lauded as excellent games and I trust those who laud the games, I am fairly sure I wouldn’t be able to play it.
My second thought is that violent crime and negative stereotypes are very separate. The number of people who commit crimes for fun is extremely small. The number of people who insult, belittle, and joke about marginalized groups for fun is substantially higher. Most people who commit crimes are themselves in marginalized situations, and playing video games doens’t change the sector of society you were raised in or your socio-economic status, or your prevailing social sense of security. Furthermore, crime is heavily stigmatized and has strong short term and long term repercussions. For most individuals crime is not worth the risks, not matter how glamorous it looks to them.
On the other hand, what are the risks of thinking about women in a negative light? Private, negative stereotypes carry little to no inherent risk. And when those stereotypes are wide spread throughout a society, the public risks are also quite low. You don’t have to worry about getting locked up for two years, or having the death or maiming of another person on your conscious. It’s incredibly easy and low risk to stereotype, and we fall into stereotyping patterns easily through exposure and peer pressure.
It’s sort of an extension of the “fake violence, real sexism” idea. We can more easily separate two separate actions (playing a game and stabbing a person) even if we ignore the moral, social, and other considerations surrounding stabbing a person. Separating in-game ideas and attitudes, for out-game attitudes and ideas is much more difficult.
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FUCK YES JANKY-ASS POLYGONAL TITTIES ATTACHED TO JANKY-ASS MALE FANTASIES THANK YOU SO MUCH GEARBOX THIS IS A DEFINITE SELLING POINT FOR YOUR GAME
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I’d say a good many of you got baited.
Good on you, gearbox.
( corny vid, but whatever, it worked )
People take themselves far too seriously these days.
Cheers eh.
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cute poem mang
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Decent people consider it immoral to bait underprivileged demographic groups.
But in any event, I’m not sure it counts as being baited to call “I see what you did, there”.
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@Motorheadache
You know what? Actually, I’m starting to agree with you. Why the hell not?
I honestly can’t really blame Gearbox. A lot of times people are trolled precisely because they’re practically begging for it. And reading all the haughty, over-serious moral posturing in this thread, I think it’s possible that may just be the case.
Provoking those who are all too easily provoked isn’t the worst of things in this world.
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Gearbox: Oh no, our game sucks, lets make some pointless controversy so people pay attention to it!
Normal folks: Wow, this game looks like it sucks, and they’re making up some pointless controversy so people pay attention to it. I mean, lol boobs
Grape Flavor: ha, look at all those people who got trolled!
Your posts say more about you than they do anyone else.
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Grape Flavor:
You also have to keep in mind some of the posters might just like the discussion and the sharing of opinions. One need not take the game seriously to find the things the game’s advertisement does or represents reprehensible.
At the same time, perhaps some of the posters genuinely do think that certain aspects of media, as an often unwitting form of social discourse, should be taken seriously whether the content generators and fans like it or not. I’m not surprised there are people who feel that way about sexism, racism and similar jabs at marginalized groups. There are times I’m willing to shrug and ignore it, but I’ve never been part of a marginalized group and figure that maybe members of those groups rightly feel differently.
I don’t think Duke Nukem is particularly important either way, and am mostly disinterested in the game. But I find the content of these ads somewhat irritating. I could ignore it in isolation, but looking at the long run of female characters in games and desperately wanting more exceptions to the rule, I don’t have very much patience for this sort of thing. I understand the call for people to lighten up about it and let the game have it’s fun … but games have been having their fun for a while now and it’s still damn hard to find a respectful take on sex and sexuality in a video game (even well written characters in Mass Effect were dampened significantly by the cheap feel of sex in the game). It’s less hard to find a respectable female characters, but still harder than it should be.
I don’t want to obliterate offensive content in games. And as long as sexism exists, it’s going to end up in games. But there should be more of a choice for those of us who don’t like it. More importantly, I feel that the media should observe at least an equal-opportunity rule when it comes to being insensitive.
Finally, Instead of accusing people of taking the game too seriously in a belligerent and somewhat insulting manner, perhaps you should simply say that you disagree and either discuss why in more depth or leave it at that. Someone could just as easily accuse you of not taking the game seriously enough (not really my stance but it makes the point), and proceed to browbeat you as a person rather than trying to counter your position. I prefer dialogue to monologue.
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The excuse that it’s a throwback to a more misogynistic time or something only goes so far. Perhaps if it was puerile as some kind of final goodbye to those attitudes, simultaneously celebrating and condemning them, it would have some merit. But that would take quite a lot of writing talent to pull off, and from all we’ve seen of the game so far, DNF is nothing but childish. There’s no merit or defence in being puerile for the sake of it.
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“There’s no merit or defence in being puerile for the sake of it.”
Um, there doesn’t have to be? That’s kind of the point in being puerile and childish, you don’t have to defend or explain why you were.
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That’s kind of the point in being puerile and childish, you don’t have to defend or explain why you were.
And everyone else is free to judge you accordingly.
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I’m not sure I understand what point you are trying to make? Gearbox aren’t stopping you from judging it, they don’t care what you think.
Reading your posts you seem to have judged it anyway on the basis of promotional videos.
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The point is just that if you’re being a puerile attention whore/troll just for the sake of it, then some people will rightly think less of you. And if that didn’t bother you, you wouldn’t have replied.
Note that I’m not judging the game by the promotional material–the promotional material is tedious and asinine enough on its own.
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Oh well. I thought I was being polite, but it’s obvious I was being a puerile attention seeking troll because I asked for clarification on your point. Will people be judging you on your passive-aggressive sniping?
Maturity win on RPS
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Wow. I hope there was a miss-type and you weren’t actually calling 7trigger an attention seeking whore. If so, that would be rather unnecessary and exceedingly rude. His post didn’t seem at all offensive to me.
I guess I see kind of see what you’re saying, 7trigger, in that DNF doesn’t feel the need to defend being offensive on the grounds that it doesn’t give a damn. But I don’t really get what you mean beyond that. I’d counter that not giving a damn doesn’t protect you from all the people that do or magically make something ok that wouldn’t have been if DNF did give a damn.
The OP’s point also didn’t seem to hinge on whether or not DNF gave a damn. He seems more to suggest that not caring what others think is not a defense for any damage DNF does in being childish and puerile and further suggest a type of damage: that it sets the medium back in terms of gender attitudes.
Which brings us back to the discussion going on elsewhere as to whether or not the content is acceptable.
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The op had stated that there was no defense in being childish or puerile, and I was countering with the point that behaviour like that wont be defended, as it’s really the point. Kind of like expecting a troll to apologise. I think thats what I originally meant at least :p
I’m not defending the games attitude or outlook, and neither are they (I understand other posters are and that’s entirely up to them)
Personally I see this as: a crude marketing gimmick aimed at getting people to discuss their game. I don’t think this will have any effect on gender acceptance within gaming (that is, of course, only my opinion), but I know gearbox will not do a thing about it, as what is happening on this thread is probably exactly what they aimed for by launching it in the first place.
Thanks for trying to inject a little intelligence into the discussion :)
*edit* I should also answer your last question: No, I don’t see any problem with this content or outlook being used within games. It’s not like every game is going to follow this example – there will always be games that use sex and gender reinforcement to sell their wares (In a way, all the military-man-o-centric-shoot-em-ups are just as bad for their lack of ANY female input at all)
This will pass quickly and quietly and I don’t think it will change or influence anything. I understand it may make people uncomfortable and I respect their feelings – but that’s all we’re really discussing : how this makes each of us feel. I’m not particularly thick skinned and I’m definitely not a blokey-bloke, but this whole marketing campaign has failed to register anything for me – be it disgust or hilarity, it’s left no impact at all.
Also: Do not post from your iPhone while lying in bed. It is a pain in the arse and you will end up forgetting what you have typed because of it’s stupid onscreen keyboard.
*edit2* I see upon re-reading my comment that I am actually defending it in a way. Please don’t start shouting at me
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DN3D sends up misogynistic uber-macho he-man imagery in caricature, is roundly decried by its critics as an anachronistic embarrassment to gaming.
… 15 years pass …
DNF sends up misogynistic uber-macho he-man imagery in caricature, is roundly decried by its critics as an anachronistic embarrassment to gaming.
Plus ca change…
Also: lawl, bewbs.
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This game is relevant to my interests. Thanks Gearbox.
lol, boobs!
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It’s as if someone would make a modern day Carry On… movie, isn’t it?
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Lol, boobs! But enough about the trolling commenters, lets talk about the video itself…
(Actually I don’t want to talk about the video. I just wanted to make that joke.)
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I didn’t get much out of that. The crudity and political incorrectness don’t bug me,it just had no content.
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http://drunkweeaboo.com/img/internet%20white%20knight.gif
Sums up the article and this whole thread, really.
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It kinda, really, doesn’t at all.
Alec said it was shitty and the thread has been mostly ‘lol, boobs’
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I’ve always found it amusing that stuff like that assumes both straight and male everything. Which is kind of telling of the sort of mindset that creates that humour in the first place, if you ask me. :p If you consider that the target might be a gay guy who’s defending equal gender rights, then it pretty much just falls apart.
So I don’t even think that’s relevant, it shouldn’t be, because it implies that the poster believes that the only people in the world are both straight and male, which is, quite frankly, a truly bizarre concept. But Sliders did that concept better.
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Oh Wulf, come on. I mean, I’m all for adequate representation of minorities in our culture. But isn’t the mindset that a depiction of internet posters as the demographic group which the majority of them actually happen to be, is automatically bigoted and exclusionary just by its mere presence, kinda twisted?
Look, I’m sorry for whining. http://postimage.org/image/237v6j0pw/
It’s a handicapped black lesbian knight, ok? Is that less offensive?
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If twenty percent of your audience feel excluded by what you’re saying, how is that not “exclusionary”?
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every guy who isn’t a sexist nerdling like me is just doing it to get laid – tristam shandy
see that is comic funny because it dismisses complaints of misogyny while being an example of it.
lol imagine if the comic was about how white people only pretend to not be racists because they fear for their lives that’d be a load of laffs lollolapocolypse lawlmageddon rafflerok i definately get that feeling sometime hey people i’m not radioactive you don’t have to change sidewalks when you see me!
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My objection to this video is the lamentable quality of the virtual mammaries on offer. This is 2011 for goodness sake. If a game is trying to sell itself on CGI knockers they really need to be a bit more convincing and appealing in shape and animation, rather than this ‘we took our jiggle physics from Neverwinter Nights’ foolishness. Doesn’t DX11 have some kind of melon acceleration technology built in? If not, why not?
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Oh my word, BOOBS!
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boobs
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now, that’s HOT- poorly modeled and animated 2003 polygonal models of women! Sex sequences focusing on duke’s muscular forearm!
Will it be possible to play this game with pantaloons on?
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/snicker
Well done.
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This game is not satire.
Now if it didn’t feature Duke Nukem but instead featured John Romero—then it would be satire.
P.S. Can someone make a mod that does this please.
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Actually Cliffy B is the John Romero of the [whatever this decade is called]‘s
No one makes me miss OMM like Cliffy B.
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Funny how RPS seems so concerned with exploitation of women when the site subtitle is “tell it to the cleaning lady”. Perhaps if RPS was truly as progressive as it pretended to be, it wouldn’t be enforcing such societal gender roles. We can’t deal with such degrading humor in our games, we need more wholesome games that let us kill freedom hating browns without including the vulgarities of human sexuality. I’m sure a white, 32 year old Mr. Meer is truly a shining beacon against oppression in his daily life. Give me a break.
Also, boobs lol.
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Trolling, but not quite so pro this time! I think it was let down by that freedom-hating spiel, that was really out of left field. :p
That said, I’d absolutely love to see how people like yourself would react to a game with a strong, intelligent gal as the lead character. One whom would have to deal with annoying, none-too-intelligent male whores whose only desire would be to get laid, humiliation meaning nothing to them, insults going right over their heads. Hm.
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Why don’t you go ahead and make that game happen?
The problem with your type is that all you can do is criticize the existing media without contributing in any significant way.
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This look disconcertingly like Garry’s Mod played on a roleplay map with better animation.
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Maybe sex sells. Let’s assume it does, and we can chalk up “+1″ for freudian stimuli. What’s the score for the opposition?
-1 for “Maybe I can get this done before lunch” typography.
-1 for insulting half of your viewers.
-1 for horrible voice acting.
-1 for horrible, quake-engine style animation (0:30… seriously?).
-1 for horribly stupid dialog (well… kind of given… DN is satire right? right?)
-1 for not caring enough to ensure no two (or three) girls on screen simultaneously have the same hairdo.
-1 for taking what may have been an aside during DN3D development and hinging the whole marketing campaign on it.
-1 for unimaginative/tasteless set dressing. When I think about DN3d I remember how nicely laid out (and to some degree realistic) the levels were. This just looks like leftovers from Larry’s Magna Cum Laude. Now that I think about it, this whole trailer does look a lot like MCL. Also, that environment map on the gold statue is quite wrong.
The more I see of this game and read about it, the more it seems to be a quick grab for hype cash, thus the hyping by trollbait. Gearbox really aren’t doing themselves a favour with all of this and should have just let the { rotting carcass | collection of unfocused fragments | ambitious, audacious mess } that DNF had become post 3drealms’ demise rest in anachronistic peace.
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One Babes please, on the double
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lol boobs
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Starting to think that things along the lines of: ‘stop taking things so seriously’ or ‘lighten up’ are really just pleas to return to a place where someone could be like ‘yo women are all bitches’ and no-one would call them up on it.
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Assuming Gearbox is trollbaiting, how does that make things better? “It’s ok, we were being assholes on purpose so it’s funny now?” I don’t think whether or not they are trying to be offensive to get a reaction makes it better. That doesn’t change whether or not what they are doing is offensive, whether or not it’s funny, and whether or not it’s irritating. It changes the exact nature of my annoyance, but it doesn’t change the content.
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I seriously considered adding my 2 cents to the ongoing sexism debate, but instead:
lol boobs
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I love the comment thread. if DNF makes just one of the self-righteous assholes richly presented here pop an angry aneurysm and get turned into a socially conscious, non-hate-culture-perpetuating potato – That alone would justify DNF existence tenfold.
Because, people, admit it – if you’re not part of the problem, you’re part of the great big boring circlejerk. I meant circleshlickjerk, sorry, didn’t mean to be gender exclusive here.
i mean, LOL b00bs
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I’m not sure I get it?
I saw a video where several women want to have sex with a man, and that man wants to have sex with them. They all used rather crude lines on each-other and then it’s implied that he had sex with one of them.
Is wanting to have sex sexist? Is using crude come-ons sexist? Is being naked while using crude come-ons to show you want to have sex sexist? Is being naked while someone else uses crude come-ons to show they want to have sex sexist? If the genders where reversed would this be any better?
There is real and very damaging sexism going on in the world, this just looked like a simulation of people doing stupid stuff to have sex. Something that most people are guilty of.
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You are sooo being part of the problem right now
Next thing you’re goint to say is that Duke Nukem doesn’t discriminate against the pig-shaped people.
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I just think that this is only cool if it’s this way around, and therein lies the problem. What I’m saying is that if the game featured an extremely strong, dominant lady as the main character, and a bunch of men acting like submissive whores, with depictions of homosexual male sex going on, people would be complaining about how demeaning this is.
The only reason that some people don’t have a problem with it is because of the depictions of straight and lesbian sex, but switch it around in your head, try to see things from another perspective, then you might understand. As a gay person, this is all kind of a massive facepalm for me. I suppose the sheer stupidity of it bothers me.
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Well, I suppose this is a good method of keeping their audience interested..
Delay after delay.. Uhg, you bastards..
Also, boobs.
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