Meet The Heretic: Space Marine vs Chaos

By Alec Meer on June 7th, 2011 at 9:31 am.

heretics have feelings too

Heretics! Blood Letters! Chaos Space Marines! And Orks. Always with the Orks. (The Orks need their own game, really: they get such a bad rap, treated as idiots and fodder). Here’s the Chaos-centric E3 trailer for Space Marine, a game I am very much looking forward too, albeit with the concern that the lone hero thingy might not entirely sit well my own vision of Space Marineyness. Still, I love the 40K universe as much as any poorly-shaven man of my generation, so the opportunity to get all first-person on it makes me tremble like a tiny rabbit.

Only a few months until this one now, which means everything we’re seeing from this stage onwards is a lock. Which means it’s probably not worth opening a petition for Tyranids at this stage, is it? DAMMIT.

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60 Comments »

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  1. Iokanaan says:

    Orks are really originally the embodiment of evil (deriving from chaos and pervertion), stupidness and ugliness and used to counteract the position of humans, in games as well as books. letting them have their own game would be besides the point.
    on game: this really looks uninteresting. shooting up Orks. in big, boring environments. I never played Dungeon keeper because of the same reason.

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      Okami says:

      No, they’re mushrooms.

    • therosthewatcher9 says:

      Maligning Space Marine and Dungeon Keeper!? In the same post?! You, sir, are a villain. A villain and a savage. /righteous indignation

    • Iokanaan says:

      exactly what I suspected. did you also notice how I taunted the ‘Orks’?

    • James says:

      There’s a bit more nuance to the Orks than Iokanaan’s synopsis suggests.

      http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork
      Well worth its own game, I think.

    • Iokanaan says:

      a genetically enginereed race. that might result in some freaky psychological gameplay. though Tolkien’s Orks are no different (mutated and perverted Elves).
      I was talking about the omnipresence of Orks in any fantasy setting. I don’t know anything about Warhammer (and don’t care, D&D 3.0 stole my role playing heart, and it will remain there. beating to death somewhere in a dungeon).

    • Squirrelfanatic says:

      I don’t get the Dungeon Keeper reference. Care to elaborate? Were there even Orks in that game?

    • Iokanaan says:

      no. but there were big boring environments and different embodiments of evil, chaos and agression with a skintone that defies the laws of evolution as well.

    • Squirrelfanatic says:

      DK was a persiflage on the generic fantasy setting, so I am not sure if this is the best comparison. You were in charge of the evil-doing, and the heroes were the “bad” ones. This is pretty much the opposite of the mainstream setting you are describing.

      On a side note: Don’t expect real evolution (if that is what you really ment) in a fantasy world. And DO expect some form of evil and aggression.

      Edit: Reading your post again, I am not sure if you were really talking about Dungeon Keeper. The environment wasn’t that wide and open, more cramped and … nerved with tunnels.

    • Bilbo says:

      We need a system to rank comments, like with Disqus. A lot of the time it seems like a heartfelt expression of ignorance gets given a lot more discussion than it deserves simply by virtue of being the first comment on the page. As Squirrel says, this looks nothing like dungeon keeper, and you also admitted you know nothing about warhammer, so you’re generally coming at this from a position of “wtf”

    • Post-Internet Syndrome says:

      Also, tolkien orcs are in fact not at all tortured elves. That was a notion put forward in Silmarillion, which was later published against Tolkiens express wishes. He said in letters that he was unsatisfied with the “orcs as tortured elves”-explanation and did not consider it canon.

    • Dead_Cheiftain says:

      @Iokanaan:Are you perhaps thinking of Dungeon Siege?

      @Post-Internet: I’ve always liked to think (not sure if the cannon backs this up) that an being of sufficient power and evil can create Orcs via magic etc. The scene in the Two Towers where Saruman oversees the Urk-Kai being ripped from the earth like angry tubers seems a lot more interesting than the tortured elves explanation.

    • Post-Internet Syndrome says:

      Orcs are their own race, I don’t think there is a full canon explanation of where they come from. Saruman was crossbreeding orcs with men. That slimy cocoon thing is just the movie.

    • Davie says:

      Orks aren’t evil, they just want to fight everything and blow shit up. Hence, the perfect action game protagonist.

    • Grot_Punter says:

      @Davie

      Indeed, 40k Orks are just a bunch of roudy, space-Cockney, mushroom Men who want nothing more than a good fight and gun. They’re only evil in so far as they want to fight everything, and even then, their motives for doing so are no grander than “I want to fight! SO LETS FIGHT EVERYTHING!!”

      So I propose this analogy: The Orks are the loud, boisterous drunk in a bar punching people and laughing his arse off, and the universe is their pub.

    • Iokanaan says:

      good points.
      my pride has taken a beating, rest safely knowing this was my first first post, and it won’t recur the next couple of months (statistically speaking).

      @Post-Internet Syndrome
      that book is so pretty, I subconsciously grant it too much priviledges
      @Davie
      that’s maybe at least as good as my explanation
      @Dead_Cheiftain
      no, it was Dungeon Keeper. I only really remember the trailer that was shown after installing Populous. I think I once tried a demo, but didn’t like it. somehow, anyway, the design of Space Marine reminds me of it

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      Arathain says:

      Dawn of War 2: Retribution confirms the viability of playing 40K Orks. It’s heaps of fun. I need to learn the other races in multiplayer, but I can’t help going back to my Orks. It’s such a pleasure to be commanding a force that seems to having just as much fun as I am.

      All credit to Relic’s commitment to excellent voice acting.

      “Got me shoota. Life is good.”

  2. Zhou says:

    Is this going to be a fun game? Yeah probably.

    Is it going to really deal with the ip (religious psychos with outrageous weaponry biffing things that are even more outrageous than they are) in the way we want it to? Probably not :<.

    • James says:

      How is it that we want it to deal with these things? I have not yet been informed of our collective standards, or, for that matter, why we’ve decided they probably won’t be met.

      Your assistance is appreciated, mind-brother. Long live the hive!

    • Yor Fizzlebeef says:

      Games Workshop allowing anyone to advance the storyline of their intellectual properties?

      Hah! lol! lol at the very idea!

  3. JakobBloch says:

    Hmmm yes. A more squad based experience would be more in line with my image of the space marines. Republic Commando comes to mind as a good baseline to start from and then building on that to make it more fitting for Space marines.
    The space marine idea is also perfect for coop and while there may be nothing of the kind in the first game we can hope there is enough sales for a sequel. Then hopefully we can see some coop.
    All this having been said we have to recognise that they are holding true more to the novel version of the space marines rather then the tabletop space marines. The novel space marines are somewhat different beasts then their tabletop brethren and the lone hero is more in line with that version.
    Space Marines are a vast font of stories and I hope we get a nice long series of games about them. Preferably with shifting points of view (e.i. different main chracters) each time. I want to see the different chapters in action.
    Edit: Another games workshop game I would like to see: Necro Munda in the same way Bloodbowl was made. A real time mode and a old school mode.

    • Tom OBedlam says:

      abso-fucking-lutely! Lots of people demanding progressive turn based strategy at the moment, why is no one approach GW’s citadel made of money to ask for the rights to necromunda and mordheim?

      I’d kill some of the less likeable members of my family for a mordheim game.

    • Hmm-Hmm. says:

      A Necromunda game would be awesome.. if it were any good.

  4. LuNatic says:

    A game like this but from an orkish perspective would be great. Start as a slugga boy drawn into the waaagh, and grow into a nob as the game goes on. Challenge the warboss in the final fight. Please make this game :D

    • Tom OBedlam says:

      Oh my yes. Orks would make a smashing action rpg. Actually growing in size as you level.

      I’m dreaming of the day I can play the story of the rise of my Warboss, the freeboota Kaptain Snazzteef

    • Chuck84 says:

      Wahammer 40K: From Boyz to Nobz.

      Wait…no…

    • Tom OBedlam says:

      Space Marine: Proud and Prejudiced

    • James says:

      Wahammer 40K: The Rise And Fall Of Warboss Snotstompa (As Told By Warboss Snotstompa)

      The emotional impact of what you know is coming, coupled with the simple and blood-thirsty stoicism of the narrator when the Waugh! is finally crushed will leave you literally without speech. Many awards will be invented, then bestowed, and there will be much rejoicing. Steam will have the digital deluxe edition, with extra wargear, an extra chapter and the official orchestral/circus-music soundtrack.

    • Ralphomon says:

      I’d quite like an Ork-based 4X game. Although it’d probably be less on the whole research thing and more on the steamrollering over world after world with an algae-based green tide of menace.

  5. magnus says:

    I genuinely thought for a second that was the Patriarch from Killing Floor in the photo!

  6. Dana says:

    But Orks are idiots and fodder, most of them at least.

    • coldvvvave says:

      But Smartboyz are smart.

    • Tom OBedlam says:

      Der’s a fine line between a smart boy and a smart git

    • Ralphomon says:

      Snots and Grots is idiots and fodder.

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      Arathain says:

      See, Orks isn’t all dat stupid. Deys dead cunnin’ in a scrap- you just ask dem Kommando boys, if you can finds them before they kills you. Stupid Orks is proppa… proga…. lies from squishy humies and pointy ears wat don’t like us. Orks just knows what they likes, and doesn’t do any of dat other stuff what “smart” boys do.

  7. Bedeage says:

    If your armour is not covered in blood and gore after those ork fights I will not play this. Immersion is important :P

  8. coldvvvave says:

    Orks had their own game – Gorkamorka, but it was cancelled. It was supposed to be some kind of Driving/Shooting/Racing game, I think there is a demo somewhere, but you’ll probably need a Win 2000 virtual machine to run it.

    • Squirrelfanatic says:

      Orks and cars wot go fast make sense, but really – how can you work on such a game when there are way more obvious possibilities at hand? Love the dakka!

    • Ralphomon says:

      There was a Gorkamorka video game planned? That’s pretty awesome

  9. Meat Circus says:

    Tyranids for the inevitable expandalone, surely?

    • Steven Hutton says:

      I’m sick of nids after DoW2. I’m ready to fight some Necrons.

    • James says:

      I’m really hoping there will be a new expansion for DoW 2 introducing the Necrons in the style of Chaos Rising. Still, they’d be a good choice for the main villains in DoW 3 as well.

      I’d like to think they’ll get to them at some point…they are undead robots, after all, led by primeval star gods that embody destruction and deceit, respectively . That’s about as badass as something gets.

    • Hmm-Hmm. says:

      I, for one, agree with the sentiment for Necrons over Tyranids. I don’t know, they seem more sinister. Tyranids are just all-devouring beasts. Dark Eldar with their fetishist selfish torture culture could be interesting as well.

  10. Jonathan says:

    [nerdvoice] It’s “Bloodletter,” not “Blood Letter” [/nerdvoice]

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    heretic says:

    Had to post in this thread.

  12. aircool says:

    Greenskins in WH/WH40K have always been a source of comic relief. Half the time they’ll steamroller any opposition, the rest of the time, they’ll just start fighting amongst themselves. Throw into the mix weapons that are just as dangerous to either side and you can’t help but have fun.

    • tocard2 says:

      I play Orks in 40K and second your comment. There is nothing more amusing than using your Stormboyz jetpacks, rolling a one, and having one spiral off, land on his head, and die.

  13. wodin says:

    My only worry is it will just be case of constant button mashing…if so after the inital 20 mins it will become very tiring.

    • aircool says:

      As long as it’s easy button mashing… I can’t get on with games that require to many combos, or button presses for different functions (like GTA series for example and any sports game). Damnit, sensi soccer only used two buttons (usually I’d rant on about something completely off topic now, but my meds are working, so that’s a relief for everyone).

  14. JohnnyMaverik says:

    I hope this is good enough for them to do another one and use two or more of the less completely mind numbingly boring races from the 40k roster.

    • James says:

      They’re only boring if you don’t read much about them. I could complain about Games Workshop for a variety of reasons (and I have), but 40K has all the best fluff. Every unit is described as the most deadly creature in the galaxy, and most of the details are surprisingly consistent throughout.

      They need to make some US-style, expensive and overly-produced movies. Some people don’t know how badly they want that to happen.

    • JohnnyMaverik says:

      Chaos Marines are interesting but my impression has always been that people only get worked up over anything involving Space Marines because they’e the most played race.

      Now I’ll admit I’m not the biggest Warhammer fan, I used to be into it when I was younger (Dark Eldar & Wood Elves) but I never really had the patience, so I’m probably missing a lot of background knowledge, but from just knowing the basic overview of every race, Space Marines always seemed the most boring.

      Idk, I’m probably wrong, but I’d rather a game where you get to play as a Dark Eldar space pirate than mr. ultimate genero-“I am a space marine”, chiselled jaw, shaved head, slightly tanned obviously safe marketing bet.

    • James says:

      There is in fact a large amount of detail, it adds quite a bit to the concept you described. I remember when I thought the idea of 40K was as ridiculous as anything I could imagine (orcs in space?), but I’ve since been converted.

      The main quality about Space Marines that gives them depth (in my opinion) is that they are total zealots, but they’ve thought about the details A LOT (as their “god” is a real, tangible thing) and built a formal, para-military society around those ideas. Then you add the general hostility of the 40K universe, along with the different Chapters and their specific variations on the theme and I think you’ll find there’s more than one might first assume.

      To each his own, however. Space Marines have redundant backup organs, though.

    • Stephen Roberts says:

      They need to make some US-style, expensive and overly-produced movies. Some people don’t know how badly they want that to happen.

      I recon a successful story in the WH40k universe would have to have a strong underpinning in an emotive, character led storyline. Some might think that’s espousing the science fiction for a romance (which there would have to be, sorry everyone) but the truth is that the WH40k universe, while quite rich with ideas, is pretty much maximalist science-fantasy. The setting is layers and layers of prettification. Or blood encrusted hyperbole.

      It could be done, but it would almost have to ignore the fact it’s WH40k to work. It would have to immerse so well in that universe that it doesn’t get in the way of a decent tale.

      How about: separation of two people because of heresy suspicions. Mostly an internal struggle with short and distinct fight sequences a la Equilibrium. In the end, suspect dies, protagonist turns a little mental / chaosy. Or happily ever after in the grim future of man.

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      Daiv says:

      Remake 300 with the Spartans in power armour.

      Thank you, that will be $2,000,000.00.

  15. bill says:

    I hope you fight through this whole game as an apparent hero, and then in the final act you decide the planet has become too tainted and sterilize the whole world, killing billions.

    • Ralphomon says:

      The more they portray the Marines as violent, xenophobic extremists with a misguided zealous ‘honour’ system, the better.

  16. nayon says:

    I’m surprised no one made a Dean Takahashi joke yet.

  17. kud13 says:

    sigh. I get why they have to make a game about Space Marines, the “proud defenders of humanity”, and all that jazz.

    but WHY, for the love of God, do they pick Ultramarines–the most bland, “we’re the perfect sons” chapter in the entire Universe? why couldn’t it be someone cool and ambigous… like the Dark Angels?

    • Jake says:

      I’m not a huge fan of the Ultramarines either.

      I’d like to play as a World Eater, going berserk on Imperial Guard with a chain axe until you can’t/don’t distinguish friend from foe and everything just looks like another head to be collected. Great fun in co-op!

      Or Emperor’s Children where the whole game is in psychedelic colours with excessive noise and you gain power ups from senseless depravity and debauchery.