By Alec Meer on June 22nd, 2011 at 9:08 pm.

Pay attention, students – here’s your homework for today. Cloud gaming services such as OnLive and Gaikai: discuss. They’re on the rise, and approaching the point where they’re not just a fascinating gimmick but a viable way of playing high-end games at reasonable graphical quality. But what do they mean for PC gaming? Indeed, can they be considered PC gaming? And most of all – how seriously should we, and you, be taking them?
Cloud gaming, if you’ve not managed to keep up with the streaming Joneses, is a system whereby the game you’re playing is actually running on a high-spec PC somewhere on the other side of the world (or ideally much closer), and streamed to your monitor/TV/tablet/whatever as essentially a high-resolution video that reflects the keys or buttons you push. So, if you load up Dead Space 2 and press fire on your keyboard, a command is sent to a remote machine that then renders the action and effects thereof, and as close as possible to instantly transmits the resulting image back to your PC via the internet.
Is it magic? Yes. Probably. Don’t ask me, I just press the buttons and watch stuff happen.
Is it something that is actually happening and possible today? Also yes. With the proviso that it doesn’t look anywhere near as good as a locally-running game even in the most ideal circumstances (those being not just your ISP, but pretty much every piece of cable and exchange between your computer and wherever the remote server is), and in the rather less than ideal circumstances most of us actually have, you simply can’t avoid a loss of detail and a bit of lag. In theory, this can be improved both as the average web connection increases in speed and as canny optimisations and smoke and mirrors are found to compensate for the delays and the fidelity hit.
Prices also need to improve – OnLive’s quite happy to charge what pretty much amounts to full retail price at the moment, but on the other hand it does have an increasingly up to the minute selection of games. It’s been quite back catalogue heavy for a while, but now the likes of Duke Nukem Forever are up there. Most games can be played for free for half an hour too – so right now you could go try out FEAR 3, for instance, even though it doesn’t have a demo anywhere else. That kind of thing could be an enormous way of driving sales – and potentially torpedoing a game’s success, if a quick play of the opening section suggests it’s a stinker. (So if this really did take off, I can imagine publishers/developers making games with this in mind – making the first half hour astonishingly good at the possible expense of the later stages).

In some instances, the pricing ain’t bad – for instance, you could ‘rent’ FEAR 3 for three days for $5, which would be time enough to complete the singleplayer quite happily. Of course, you wouldn’t own anything at the end of that time – question is how important that is, in this age of constant new releases, constantly getting distracted by the next big game?
The most important thing, of course, is the the tech itself, which is working surprisingly well. My first experiences with OnLive when it first launched didn’t exactly fill me with hope – a tiny, muddy window and a whole lot of lag. Yesterday, however, I was playing Metro 2033 at a reasonable resolution and looking… well, nowhere near as sharp as if I ran it locally, but not at all bad. Not bad at all. There was still an element of lag which made things feel a bit dreamlike, but I reckon it’s tolerable for more casual play. If you’ve not tried it for a while, I really do recommend it. And Gaikai too, which uses similar technology but with a very different end in mind. While OnLive’s plan is to have you essentially rent entire games, Gaikai’s current shtick is offer game publishers a way to present potential customers with instant demos – so renting out their servers and streaming tech to third parties for promotional purposes. No downloading 3GB of code (and, mildly troublingly for such as I, no need to read some journo’s write-up of a preview event) – instead click a button on a webpage and you get a playable chunk of the game there and then. Followed by, of course, an option to buy a copy of the full game via a partner retailer or download service. It’s clever bloody stuff for sure.

Deep in the RPS dungeon, we’ve had some discussion amongst the ol’Hivemind as to a) whether or not this is PC gaming b) either way, should we cover it here and c) what does it imply for the PC as a gaming platform in the years to come, if it does hit big?
My take on it right now is that, despite options to play OnLive on an iPad or with a special ‘microconsole’ that connects directly to a TV and a gamepad, it’s very much a PC thing. For one, it’s running the games on a PC somewhere. For a second, the cheapest, most readily-available means of accessing it is a PC. Any PC, so long as it’s online. The hardware in that PC is more or less academic, which is bad news for the processor and graphics cards industries but good news for anyone who wants to play high-end PC games without having to upgrade any time soon.
For the console companies, even the concept of this stuff must be absolutely terrifying. Who would want to drop £200-300 on a big ugly box to stick underneath their telly, and one into which they had to pick up new plastic discs all the damned time, when they could just hit a button on either a PC or a gamepad that talked directly to their internet-enabled TV and start playing any game right there and then?

For the PC… well, it’s a bit different. If these games are being played on high-end PCs somewhere, should these services and concepts become successful that rather suggests there’ll be lots of games being made that take advantage of high-end hardware. I.e. a PC. Why not make these games directly as well as remotely available to PC owners – especially given, as with today’s status quo you’ll get the best possible visuals, customisation and whatnot on PC, so there’s a good chance this of all platforms has the best chance of continuing to thrive alongside OnLives and Gaikais. We’re a long way off a streaming video really being able to rival the visual quality of a high-res PC game – while it might be almost possible for the richest of the richest, the road to getting the majority of internet connections suitably high speed is a ludicrously long one.
The flipside concern is that even a PC becomes an unnecessary part of the chain, if tablets and phones finally stumble across a way to have decent controls, if internet-enabled TVs bundled with console-like gamepads become big, or even just if Xbox 4 or PlayStation 5 elect to become nothing more than a tiny plastic box streaming cloud games into an HDMI port. Click’n'play is going to be a lot more appealing than waiting two hours for Steam to download it, then finding your graphics card isn’t up to it or you’ve run out of hard drive space. Or more appealing than loading an MMO and finding there’s a 1.5GB patch to download and then the file’s corrupted and aaargh. The PC is the home of complexity and often that’s a good thing – but a little more ease of access wouldn’t be a bad thing. How the PC adapts to cloud gaming is going to be just as fascinating as how the console-makers adapt: because the thing about cloud gaming is that, in theory, it works on any platform and any hardware. A screen, an internet connection and some manner of controller are all it really needs.

Contrary to all that again is stuff like modding, indie games and (almost) lag-free multiplayer. The PC, the most unbound and adaptable gaming platform there is, can only remain king there. Cloud gaming cannot beat it on that front, even if it manages to marginalise it on others.
And that’s before you get into the issue of not really owning anything – just renting access to something played somewhere else, and relying on the fact that the service doesn’t fold, games aren’t cynically switched off in favour of sequels, and someone like Lulzsec doesn’t decide to knock all the servers offline for an hour, a day, a week, a month. Cloud gaming’s an amazing concept – but it’s also a bit sunshine and daisies, based on the presumption that everything will be A-Okay, Every Day. The events of the last month or two do seem to suggest that we’d be pretty foolish to be 100 per cent reliant on remote services for our digital entertainment. They don’t, however, mean that the games and technology industry is going to lose interest in the cloud as a platform. This is only going to grow, I’m sure of it.
Again, don’t mistake for me for being hysterical about this – while OnLive and Gaikai’s offering has improved significantly over the last year, I’m quite sure we’re many years away from the point where it could become anything like the norm for gaming. But it is on the rise, it is improving and we should take it seriously – both as a new gaming platform and as the next step in the PC’s fascinating, ever-changing, ever technology-defining history.
So expect a little bit more coverage of Cloud Gaming to appear on RPS in the not-too-distant. Question is – should we make it regular? Over to you.




22/06/2011 at 21:12 Tonamel says:
I’m subscribed to the OnLive Playpack, and it’s basically Netflix Streaming for games. I love it for that, but I would never make a regular purchase, because I like being able to play games offline.
22/06/2011 at 22:04 SpinalJack says:
Exactly this, people rent games and videos all the time, now you can do it without having to pop into block busters or the post box and all you need to do to play a game at your friend’s house is to remember your login details.
22/06/2011 at 22:40 Delusibeta says:
I would agree with the comparison. I can see Metaboli going bust due to OnLive (or at least scrapping their rental service), but I can’t see any of the other major digital distributors following suit.
OnLive is excellent as a rental service, if your connection is up for the job. Would I pay for a permanent license to a game? No. But I would consider the pack once I get a better connection/router. Gaikai is also an excellent idea, and I think has the most potential, due to the fact that it’s not tied to a client and just needs Flash and Java.
23/06/2011 at 03:48 MattM says:
Online game rentals are a different matter than the online remote gaming. Steam already does free weekends so it wouldn’t surprise me if regular digital distribution services start offering rentals soon.
23/06/2011 at 08:49 lurkalisk says:
I never thought of how cloudiness might benefit game rental, but that actually sounds like a good idea. Purchases, on the other hand, simply cannot become cloud-based, lest the medium devolve into a EA wet dream (no products, only services, and total control on the wrong side).
23/06/2011 at 09:14 Baboonanza says:
Reply fail :(
22/06/2011 at 21:13 MiniMatt says:
Suspect we need to see better bandwidth and more realistic monthly bandwidth caps before it becomes widespread in the UK? Staggering proportion of UK are at around 2mb which is going to struggle with hi-def streaming I’d guess.
Personally I’m not keen on the model but that might be my inner luddite and general suspicion of publisher’s motives.
22/06/2011 at 21:37 PickyBugger says:
Struggle with high def streaming, I think you mean struggle to play any online game if another person in the house wishes to do anything more than open their emails.
22/06/2011 at 21:48 LionsPhil says:
Normal online gaming can do clever things to compensate for lag, since it is running a full-blooded client, and all the rendering, locally. Even in the case where every other player is teleporting around randomly, at least your own movements will be reponsive. (And for cases short of random teleporting, it can do a lot of guesswork and pretending to maintain the illusion that everything is fine really.)
This is literally impossible with a VNC-with-a-silly-name model like OnLive. As is ever getting rid of that extra lag this side of us suddenly discovering that physics are broken. In which case I think we’ll all be a bit distracted with running from Cthulhu to play games.
22/06/2011 at 22:00 Carra says:
Here in Belgium our lines are very fast.
But at the cost of 30-50 gb limits. So no, I’ll pass on these live streaming as long as we have limits.
22/06/2011 at 23:12 James says:
@Carra
I haven’t read all of the comments yet, but from what I’ve seen already you bring up the best argument against the adoption of cloud-gaming on a large scale; Many people have bandwidth limits.
I’m curious about what kind of bandwidth these services currently require, and if that requirement will increase as the fidelity improves. My assumption is that many people with limits on their bandwidth will avoid these services by default, though there will probably still be members of that group that attempt renting/demoing games in the cloud.
Edit: http://perilsofparallel.blogspot.com/2010/07/onlive-follow-up-bandwidth-and-cost.html
3 gigs in one hour is going to be prohibitive for a large group of people. Maybe it has improved since the above was written, but I can’t see how it would be drastically improved at all, given the nature of what’s taking place.
22/06/2011 at 23:38 Creeping Death says:
“Staggering proportion of UK are at around 2mb ”
I think you need to lower your estimation alot here. I’m living in London and my max speed is 2mb. I’ve lived in 4 different places in as many years around London and this is the fastest connection I’ve had so far.
Back at my parents home in N. Ireland, their max speed is still a 512kb line. That’s 50kb/s download speeds -.-
So as for cloud gaming becoming a mainstream thing, I would say it’s still quite a few years away from that yet.
22/06/2011 at 23:50 Carra says:
Onlive has now got an agreement with one of our two meaningful ISPs, Belgacom.
I assume that these services will not count towards the monthly bandwidth limit. But what about competitors like Gaikai? I cannot see the ISP giving them the same, free limits. And what about those who are with a different ISP?
23/06/2011 at 00:24 Dirtyboy says:
I played the OnLive beta with a 40 down/12 up fiber connection on west coast US and there was noticeable input lag and the graphics quality would fluctuate quite a bit. Just Cause 2 there were many instances it was impossible to time jumps/grapples.
23/06/2011 at 03:07 JFS says:
And I always thought my 2 mbit connection was somewhat aged. Now it seems like I’m ahead of the game. I mean, even the ads at my bus stop make fun of me… what has happened that bandwidth distribution is so unequal throughout Europe?
23/06/2011 at 11:44 MiniMatt says:
Interesting stats at http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/telecoms-research/bbspeeds2011/response-to-asa.pdf
(page 5) Shows that 12.6m of the 18.8m fixed non-commercial broadband lines in the UK are advertised as “up to 8mb” (1.2m of those as 2mb or under).
(page 7) Shows that the mean speed achieved on an advertised “up to 8mb” DSL is 42% of 8mb – or 3.3mb. And that mean speed achieved on an advertised “up to 20mb/24mb” DSL is 29% – which would be 5.8mb / 6.9mb.
23/06/2011 at 13:16 Warth0g says:
Yes precisely. I’ve just upgraded my broadband to BT Infinity which gives me 37mb – but it’s still caped at 40GB download a month so not sure that something like this would be feasible…
23/06/2011 at 13:36 Brutal Deluxe says:
My main issue with this whole system is a purely technical one. The bandwidth of HDMI is around 5-10 Gbps (sustained). For the average broadband it’s 10-20 Mbps (peak). Under ideal conditions, that’s a compression rate of 500:1 (note that HDMI is already compressed). Is the compression technology advanced enough that I won’t notice (or care about) the difference?
22/06/2011 at 21:13 djbriandamage says:
Streaming cloud gaming like OnLive is cross-platform, not PC. It’s like Flash or Java or web; designed to be consumed equally well on disparate devices.
That being said, if it’s on PC then it’s good for us! More competition means more innovation.
There’s still a ways to go though. OnLive is a marvel of engineering and is glorious to behold, but the relatively low resolution and the half-second input lag are unpalatable for me. Still, it’s very innovative and lots of fun to watch other people play in real time.
This concept will become more prevalent, and will dominate entirely, in the next several years. Ownership is done. Renting is the future.
22/06/2011 at 23:00 Evil Timmy says:
consumed equally
wellpoorly. FTFY.Their strength is also their weakness; it’s like console vs PC optimization but even more extreme. If you expect your program or script to run on absolutely everything without refactoring or at least recompiling, it’s going to be performance-tuned for absolutely nothing. If this was launching in South Korea, I could definitely see this as a compelling service: broadband penetration is exceptionally high due to a condensed population and government subsidies, and users frequently pay for “renting” games at LAN cafes. In the US, Europe, Australia, and anywhere that has a spread-out population and/or bandwidth caps, it’s currently not practical, and for your ISPs sake, God forbid it becomes popular. It’d be “OMG Netflix eats all the bandwidth” by a factor of at least two.
22/06/2011 at 23:23 djbriandamage says:
Make no mistake, streaming IS the future of digital content. We will buy subscriptions from Sony and Microsoft instead of consoles. OnLive will be bought by one of these, I’m sure, or maybe even Google.
We’ll still have some “on-premeses” gaming in various forms but the cloud will be the prevalent mechanism. There’s no stopping it. Poof goes piracy. Poof goes the used market. Poof goes minimum system requirements. Dedicated servers, modding, cheats and trainers, who knows.
Is it worthwhile to give up ownership for the privilege of playing Crysis on your abacus? Our generation will say no. Our kids will say yes.
22/06/2011 at 23:47 James says:
@djbriandamage
What’s it like? The future, I mean. I’m assuming you’ve actually been there in the flesh, as otherwise it would make your position of certainty quite laughable. I know you’re not the kind of person who would boldly state an opinion as absolute fact, so I await your description of the many marvels I have to look forward to.
23/06/2011 at 00:02 Wisq says:
Piracy will not go “poof” any time soon. In fact, if we’re being forced to use all these new cloud services, I don’t see it going anywhere but up.
The whole problem with DRM is that you’re trying to get a product to the user’s hardware without the user being able to intercept it or use it in unauthorised ways. Obviously, this is a lot easier on “trusted” platforms like consoles rather than the wild and wooly world of PCs, but that just ups the ante to buffer overflows, rootkits, and hardware mods.
It becomes easier if you never deliver the software to a platform that the user controls, like only delivering it to OnLive and never to customers. But it only takes one insider to leak that out to the world these days. And even (or especially) if OnLive uses custom console-like hardware and games are only written to that platform, you can bet people will be trying to make it at home or write software to emulate it.
OnLive is the closest we can come to eliminating piracy, because the interactivity is gone by the time it hits your screen — it’s just a realtime reaction to your actions, not code to also generate reactions to thousands of pirates’ actions. But it’s still not likely to eliminate piracy, ever.
23/06/2011 at 00:29 ChromeBallz says:
@djbriandamage
The cloud does not let me backup any data (because if it did the cloud would be pointless), there is no guarantee my data will be safe or even kept for as long as i want it to be, my data is in the hands of people i have never met and any attack on anyone in the cloud will mean everyone connected is affected.
Add to that the ownership issue, no modification is possible and you’re tied to being connected to the internet which all on it’s own is a host to massive problems all the time (remember, it’s not just the cloud service you become dependant on, but also your ISP and by extension everyone in your street because of how adsl/cable works) and it’s a matter of whether you want to risk investing in something you’ll never own and where you’re dependant on a host of other companies and external circumstances for it to work, keep working and stay working for more than a few years…
Not to mention that Intel/AMD/Nvidia aren’t going to be happy about their consumer market being killed off, and by extension of cloud gaming the demand for new hardware will drop dramatically by consumer OR developers, creating an even bigger dip for the companies. If cloud services would ever become dominant i’d bet that 2 out of those 3 companies would be close to going bankrupt if they aren’t already, something they would in all probability not want to let happen.
So what happens now is that PC hardware becomes cheaper to a point where people can either look at short term or long term benefits of their data storage/ownership/execution and make a choice which is based on a timeframe of less than a year, maybe 2 (IE: a new cutting edge PC will cost as much as a 1/2 year subscription to any cloud service).
The most important thing to take into consideration here is that while the cloud gives to the people (easy access almost anywhere), it also takes away (ownership of your purchases, customizability and reliability, making you dependant on 3rd parties).
Many people seem to be making their decision based on an extremely short term perspective. There’s a lot of disadvantages to the cloud many people prefer to ignore, though i guess that’s their choice. In any case, the cloud will never completely kill off local platforms, even if it’s just because of paranoia, unless the country you live in outlaws local platforms entirely for whatever deluded reason – In which case there’d still be private local platforms around anyway simply because they’re not allowed.
Think of this aswell: On a cloud service, everything is digital. The hosting company can change anything they want and you cannot do anything about it. Want to keep your savegames for more than a week? Gotta pay. Want to keep your *games* for more than a week? Gotta pay. You bought a game, no you didn’t, there is no sign of you buying that particular game anywhere in their system, you bought another one instead as clearly indicated by the digital (!) receipt.
Oh yes, that will happen. The cloud will make people utterly complacent at a certain point and hosting companies can very easily exploit this. In the end of the day, they all want to make money, but whereas local platforms can be customized at your heart’s desire in both software and hardware, you have practically 0 jurisdiction about anything you buy or rent online/digitally only.
Hence i should mention that platforms like Steam are actually quite dangerous aswell in that regard, though that’s a matter for another day.
23/06/2011 at 01:00 Devan says:
Yeah, while I do recognize that there are situations where cloud gaming (or other services like Google OS) might be well-suited, I will not support these systems because of the severe implications on privacy, ownership, security, reliability, and other concerns as explained well by ChromeBallz above. There’s nothing wrong with the availability of more options for people who need them, but considering the lucrative possibilities of turning an entire computer into a service there’s no way that these models could become successful without significantly shifting the industry in a way that is undesired by the rest of us.
For that reason, I hope to see enough people who value keeping their computing capabilities under their own ownership that the industry never makes that shift.
23/06/2011 at 02:44 djbriandamage says:
I agree with pretty much everything you guys say (except James – for you I’ll make a special clarification that my words before, after, and including this sentence are all my opinion).
I really do think I’ll be proven correct in my predictions. Steam was the first major step where we descended from “software licensees” to “subscribers”. Unlike boxed copies, if you lose your Steam account you lose all your purchases. In that respect the only difference between Steam and OnLive is that you can install Steam games to your hard drive.
I’m not saying I’m in favour of doing everything in the cloud. I’m not even in favour of OnLive for anything but demos. I don’t see myself ever buying anything on OnLive. But I said the same thing about Steam and now I have around 200 games on there.
I also stand by my claim that streaming will end piracy. Games will be designed to run on servers and output to IP instead of local video and sound cards, and to hundreds of tenents instead of just one user. Sure it can be emulated or duplicated but I doubt it will be as easy as loading a Mappy Land ROM into MAME.
So let it be written; so let it be done. So spake some internet DJ.
23/06/2011 at 09:15 Baboonanza says:
There is world of difference between Steam, where you buy the games and are free to play them in perpetuity (even offline after they’ve been installed) and a subscription based service where failure to pay your subscription or lack of an internet connection means you can’t play any game at all.
One is like buying a house, the other like renting a house. It’s pretty clear to me which one is the better investment.
23/06/2011 at 16:48 djbriandamage says:
Baboonanza, if you ever read one EULA it should be Steam’s. That document makes it patently clear that you are a “Subscriber” and not an owner. You pay Steam for the privilege of subscribing to their service. You own nothing on that list.
Technically this is true of all software. You are a licensee, not an owner. That’s why copyright law is so tricky when it comes to software.
Do read the Steam EULA, or at least the first few paragraphs where they tell you the rights and limitations of being a Steam subscriber.
01/07/2011 at 23:32 MiniTrue says:
EULAs are not legally binding in practice here in Europe, though. In America (or “corporaterapeofcommonfolkland”), they most certainly are, but software companies’ attempts to enforce EULAs as legally binding contracts have invariably been unsuccessful over here. Games companies would like it to be the case that you merely purchase a license. However, in the real world, you are purchasing an optical disc with data burned to it, which can then be installed and played on a PC. Rather amusingly, even a steam game can be downloaded via steam and then subsequently have Steam cracked off it. You can debate the legality of it all you like, but a British or European court would never, in practice, uphold the right of a software publisher to revoke a licensee’s licence based SOLELY upon a violation of the EULA, assuming they can provide proof of purchase of course.
tl;dr: In Europe, if you pay for a game, publishers have no legal power to revoke your right to play it that any court in the land would uphold. The reason? Because such a law would be simply unenforceable. Trust me, I’ve been studying consumer rights laws for three years now, no publisher would dare enter the minefield of European EULA law.
EDIT: Quick clarification, I am not suggesting that the EULA is worthless, but assuming the user legally purchased a piece of software and has proof of said purchase, European courts would not allow for their licence to be revoked for merely (as an example) cracking the software, in practice. At least, this has never happened yet to my knowledge here in the UK, or as far as I know in the EU. Of course, if the user’s intention was what is rather nebulously defined as “malicious”, or if actual circumvention of payment was involved, then that is a TOTALLY different matter.
22/06/2011 at 21:15 Javier-de-Ass says:
steam = pc gaming? it’s a platform and game subscription service aping all its features from xbox 360 and doing all it can to make porting games from the hd console twins to pc as easy and painless as possible for the big publishers. it’s also serving up actual pc games, but its bread and butter is steamworks drm packaged console ports.
22/06/2011 at 21:22 deanbmmv says:
Stream not Steam :P
22/06/2011 at 21:36 Wowza says:
In other news, this block button is really starting to become useful.
22/06/2011 at 21:56 Jason Moyer says:
Never mind that Steam was around for 2 years before the 360 came out.
22/06/2011 at 23:16 ResonanceCascade says:
@ Jason Moyer
Stop dipping your little “facts” into other people’s crazy rants. Jerk.
23/06/2011 at 11:27 Javier-de-Ass says:
facts like steam community update in 2007, steamworks in 2008? if valve could have gone completely onlive with steam at the time they obviously would have, and it’s really no surprise to hear they are going to support onlive itself with their games. every single feature in steam is made to take control away from the gamer and give it to valve and publishers.
23/06/2011 at 13:23 Warth0g says:
Paranoid much? Rather, every single feature in Steam is designed to make money for Valve and its publishers by giving their customers what they want and are willing to pay for.
22/06/2011 at 21:15 DrGonzo says:
Onlive is a very interesting concept. Having played a bit of Arkham Asylum on my netbook I was quite impressed.
Here’s a link to Carmack on Onlive http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-21539_7-20069887-10391702.html
22/06/2011 at 21:15 Drake Sigar says:
This is sorcery, and I for one will not be party to it.
22/06/2011 at 21:21 Jim Reaper says:
Already have my pitchfork at the ready….
22/06/2011 at 21:29 Kaira- says:
I wonder if OnLive floats.
22/06/2011 at 21:37 Surgeon says:
Only if it’s made out of wood.
22/06/2011 at 21:37 abremms says:
@Kaira – only one way to find out… don’t suppose you have a duck? mine flew away. :(
22/06/2011 at 21:16 noom says:
As somebody that absolutely cannot stomach playing any game with even a smidgen of mouse lag, I can’t see myself ever going for this. I remain massively impressed with the idea and the technology, and who knows, maybe this will prove to be where things go, but for now, no.
22/06/2011 at 21:48 TillEulenspiegel says:
Yeah. No matter how good the “technology” gets, it’s still limited by the laws of physics (ie, the speed of light). I can tell you from experience with guitar software that more than about 20ms of latency is noticeably laggy. It doesn’t feel properly responsive.
Typical ping from a consumer ISP to a few hops outside the ISP (eg, Google) is what, 20-30ms at best? For OnLive to work well, they need servers literally everywhere.
22/06/2011 at 22:04 The Sombrero Kid says:
ehh it’s not limited by the laws of physics, light travels at 3000 km in a millisecond (roughly 1/10th of the way round the earth), the lag on the internet is from electrical & optical signal processing and switching
EDIT: as Starky says it’s 300 not 3000 – bad napkin maths, so light could travel around the earth in 100ms not 10ms.
22/06/2011 at 22:48 pepper says:
Which is limited by physics, atleast for the current production methods/materials.
So yes, until we found a better way for that its physics that is blocking us.
22/06/2011 at 23:35 Starky says:
No, it isn’t limited by “physics”, it is limited by current technology. Well to be more exact the COST of current technology.
Though light only travels at 300 km per millisecond (not 3000 as mentioned above) that is still bloody fast
Yes mechanically switches might impose a hard limit, but advances in optical and digital switching are already reaching switching speeds measured in nano seconds.
With speeds reaching upwards of 100 gigabits per second per port/switch exist for high end data centres/cloud systems.
So the best we could manage for say a 500 mile round trip is 4ms travel time, maybe 6-7 ms switching time at the backbones. Assuming you had a fibre connection at your house.
Obviously right now that number is closer to 40-50ms in most countries (except maybe Sweden or Japan who have crazy good internet), because a lot of the internet infrastructure is pretty piss poor, and over saturated.
So give it 10 years time most anyone on the internet will probably only have 10-15ms of latency between them and the cloud this would be running on.
Which is less latency than your monitor/TV adds to your games.
22/06/2011 at 23:47 Mad Hamish says:
I think it’s rather our current knowledge of physics or inability to engineer it. Like with time travel.
22/06/2011 at 21:17 Bobsy says:
I definately don’t like it. The lack of mod support, need to pay persistent fees for the privilege, the dependence on other people’s technology to provide an uninterrupted and lag-free service… while I cannot fault the intentions on cloud gaming, the proposed reality leaves me unsettled.
Brrr. Change, eh?
22/06/2011 at 21:29 Gar says:
Yea, lag issues aside, the inability to mod, move around saves, use trainers etc etc really kills the appeal for me. I suppose the “instant demos” thing sounds kind of nice, but the point Alec raised about the developers/publishers possibly exploiting this by ensuring the first 30 minutes of their game gets much more attention than the rest is worth noting.
22/06/2011 at 23:34 mkultra says:
So basically you couldn’t mod or fiddle with the games, you’re saying. Just like the majority of new releases today.
23/06/2011 at 00:07 Wisq says:
Show me a single PC game today that can’t be modded or fiddled with, and I’ll show you me downloading a mod or trainer for that title, or macroing it (via software and hardware), or just memory-hacking it myself like I usually do.
22/06/2011 at 21:19 googoogjoob says:
i have a strong instinctive distrust of anything that doesn’t let me actually own my games
cloud gaming is a logical endpoint of drm, and of games being treated as subscription-based services vs packaged goods
i want to own my games, and be able to play them when i want to, without having to pay for that right
this is, of course, totally apart from all the technical issues- having to rely on someone else’s hardware, having to rely on your connection which is just another company you are forced to trust, input lag, servers going down etc
if you have a problem with a game you have installed on your pc you can work to solve it right away
if you’re playing a game being streamed to you from a little box several hundred miles away and there’s a problem, you just have to sit around and wait for them to do something about it
i dunno some of these issues may seem frivolous but they all combine to put me off of cloud gaming (and cloud computing in general)
22/06/2011 at 21:19 Vinraith says:
It’s 100% unbreakable online-all-the-time DRM, I fully expect the industry to embrace it with open arms. It’s also the death of mods, the death of tweaking, the death of any sort of user control at all outside of the in-game options screen. Your games are playable only at the discretion of the provider, your save games are maintained only at the discretion of the provider, your $50 buys you nothing more than the right to play a game if the provider feels like it, welcome to the glorious future of gaming.
I trust many indies will soldier on with the ownership model, but I expect services like Onlive will, eventually, effectively be the death of AAA PC gaming. It’s the most efficient means imaginable for the publishers to close an open platform.
22/06/2011 at 21:35 Eightball says:
Only if we let it happen. We’ll have to simply support indies who keep the faith.
Who knows, we may all end up better for it, if it forces developers to pick a side.
22/06/2011 at 21:39 ReV_VAdAUL says:
@Vinrath I have to agree
@Eightball just as people took a stand on not paying for map packs that used to be free or all the other DLC shenanigans?
22/06/2011 at 22:07 LionsPhil says:
Gotta agree. Gamers are a spineless lot.
But, frankly, “AAA gaming” is really not that great a loss.
22/06/2011 at 22:08 Vinraith says:
@Eightball
I wish I shared your optimism.
Gamers pretty much never take a stand on anything, hence the never ending bastardry creep in the industry. The industry knows it can just take away a few consumer rights, wait for the bitching to die down, let everyone acclimate, take away some more consumer rights, rinse and repeat. It hasn’t stopped yet, I don’t see much sign that it’s going to do so before we reach the logical terminus of it, and that logical terminus looks a lot like Onlive.
22/06/2011 at 22:51 LionsPhil says:
If you really want to depress yourself, you can project the same path forward for all software environments, given the (slow) rise of the app store. ChromeOS can be considered a rough parallel to OnLive since its purpose is to turn your powerful personal computer into a thin-client system from the ’70s but with more graphics and via the pile of kludges which is the web.
22/06/2011 at 23:32 Farewell says:
This is essentially the ultimate DRM. If the biggest publishers started making cloud-exclusive titles (all sequels of existing IP of course) and keep on spending over ten times more resources on advertising than development, it could easily not only take over the role currently held by gaming consoles, but reach a even wider audience.
As a result, games would be come even more “accessible” and “cinematic” than they are today.
To me, that future does not look very bright.
22/06/2011 at 23:55 Bhazor says:
I’m not so convinced about publishers releasing “Cloud only” games.It would be too expensive running tens of thousands of simultaneous copies of a game on in house servers. If they used a third party they’d be giving far too much control to these third parties, just arranging the licensing would be a nightmare (pay per copy run? Pay per user? A flat fee? Percentage of sales? Pay per server space used?) and it seems far less secure than the old disc protection they have on consoles now.
23/06/2011 at 00:16 DrGonzo says:
This isn’t meant to replace PC gaming as far as I can tell. But allow low spec users a choice, and also of course replacing consoles.
Also, as far as I’m aware there is no reason mod support couldn’t be added. A partnership with Moddb or someone could be great.
22/06/2011 at 21:20 deanbmmv says:
I would very much agree that Cloud gaming is PC gaming. As you said they’re PC versions of a game running on a PC, just in someone else’s house.
It has many of the benefits of console gaming, the ease of use, plug n play process, so I can see it maybe luring in console gamers there. Then it has the bonus that as it’s a PC title it should be quite easy to sell on to those of us that have the high end gaming rigs and want to tweak it and also own it. I think a good element is these systems are very scalable, so you could have really high end games running. Which would solve the complaints on some people that games have stalled technologically due to consoles. Maybe.
I don’t think that streaming will completely take over. It could become big, but I think there’s still a part of the gaming populace who would prefer to have control and ownership in the same way people still buy LPs despite the iTunes elephant in the room. So I think “local copies” will still be sold even if most people are on streaming consoles.
Out of the two I favour Gaikai the most. I think that could go far. If you’re going to have adverts all over a site, and advert that lets me demo the game instead of showing me your pre-rendered scenes is much better. I’m kind of amazed RPS haven’t signed up as a Gaikai affiliate yet. I’d say it would make me come here more often, but I’d come here regardless :D
22/06/2011 at 21:31 tuacker says:
It won’t necessarily be easy to get the game running on your rig at home. I suspect the servers will have a very specific set of hardware which allows developers to optimize their games for it, every other hardware config won’t even be bothered with and it probably just won’t work on your PC.
22/06/2011 at 21:20 Duckee says:
If this is the future I dare not think of the day the internet breaks down and I dont have a hard drive full of games to play. (Ignoring the silly games that require Internet connections)
No, I think I prefer to have my games on the old hard drive and system.
That point aside, how does this business structure mix with publishers? From what I have heard, companies that have other cloud software solutions only pay for 1 license per customer, which can be reused on a new customer should the old customer unsubscribe.
22/06/2011 at 21:40 abremms says:
good call on that. at least with Steam I can play offline if the intertubes get clogged.
23/06/2011 at 00:24 Wisq says:
It would also mean the death of gaming on airplanes, say, or indeed anywhere outside your home where bandwidth is not readily available and uncongested.
It would mean that playing some games at your less-internet-endowed friend’s house might cost him a lot of bandwidth-bucks.
And what of the hardware cost? You have to have enough gaming platforms to cover _peak_ load at any given time. That means there’s a time in the evening (of your local country/continent, since latency means this does need to be locally-operated) that requires you to pretty much have one high-spec PC per “hardcore” (every-day) gamer. You’ll either have to charge enough to cover that (at which point the “hardcore” gamer is better off owning a gaming rig) or just hope you get a ton more “light” users who collectively share machines while paying for the required peak capacity.
No, I’m seeing OnLive as a possible solution for those who don’t want to build themselves a gaming rig, not as the future of gaming.
22/06/2011 at 21:20 Cheebahh says:
I never even got close to a HD image with OnLive, so I probably won’t use it. However I don’t like the industry heading this way, call me old fashioned but I prefer having a nice box and physical copy. Blizzard showed it can still be done nicely with StarCraft II. If it all moves to the cloud we hand ALL power over to the publishers/corporate suits and submit to any price hikes or DLC debacles in the future.
This is a scary trend that most industries are heading towards, take away our things so we just lease services. Reality will start to break down for a lot of people when this happens.
22/06/2011 at 21:20 Silverel says:
This is a new segment of gaming, and surely is not PC nor Console gaming. It’s some sort of unholy bastardization of the two. Surely some sort of exchange of souls has transpired here. I cannot abide.
22/06/2011 at 21:21 Turin Turambar says:
Technically, it’s still not up there. It will need 10 years more of bandwidth upgrades for a decent video quality. And what about the lag. You can’t reduce the lag, there are physical limits about that, so forget fast action or racing or fighting games.
22/06/2011 at 21:22 Tei says:
I looks like a system good to play demos, and not much less…
22/06/2011 at 23:40 Bhazor says:
For me the issue is this.
Computer technology and bandwidth are both increasing rapidly and in parallel but we’re arguably reaching the peak of computer game technology. Games are already incredibly expensive to produce and the gain from one generation to the next is diminishing. The fact we’re falling into gimmicks (3D tv, motion control, whatever they get the kinect to do next) is a sure sign we’re butting against limits and treading water.
The point being in 5 years when connections are fast enough and stable enough for cloud gaming then the cheapest hardware will be capable of running it on it’s own. I mean if you’ve got the hardware for a 16+ inch screen on your laptop then why would you not already have a graphics card with it?
An interesting idea. But I think it’s time has passed.
23/06/2011 at 05:28 Urthman says:
Exactly. If we’re reaching the end if the graphics upgrade cycle, then the hardware to run the best-looking games locally will be dirt cheap, and running the games locally is *always* going to look and play better than running them remotely.
Cloud computing makes no sense because local storage and local processing power is getting cheaper so much faster than bandwidth.
22/06/2011 at 21:25 abremms says:
My biggest concern if this goes widespread is the death of modding. I know not every PC gamer gets into mods, but for me thats kinda Why I Do It. I don’t see modding happening on the cloud.
beyond that, if they can make the technological magic happen to fix the issues with lag and fidelity, then provide the service at a reasonable price (full price for a AAA game is alright if lag and fidelity are fixed, but as it stands now… meh) then I might be willing to commit to one of these services. until then, or untill my GPU is outdated and I can’t afford an upgrade, I’ll stick with Steam.
22/06/2011 at 21:27 zeekthegeek says:
No moddability = not PC gaming. Full stop
22/06/2011 at 21:27 Theory says:
I would play forgettable un-moddable blockbusters (COD, Battlefield SP, the new Alice game) on these services. But I would always want my own copy of anything that I value.
22/06/2011 at 23:44 Bhazor says:
They’ll take my boxed copy of Planescape when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
23/06/2011 at 00:35 ChromeBallz says:
@Bhazor
And my 3 copies of Baldur’s Gate 2. :>
22/06/2011 at 21:28 tuacker says:
Obviously cloud gaming is a very interesting technology and by the looks of it everything is pushing in this direction. I don’t mind not owning (singleplayer) games as I play most only once so streaming them to me at a lower cost is quite an entertaining thought. It’s still going to be a long time until games look as crisp as a native install and even longer until they feel as responsive. But I can’t judge that until I get a chance to try it
That said, I see PC gaming as being able to mess around with the games I play to my liking. Change gravity, no-clip, mods, you name it. This all will probably be lost with cloud gaming. What I can and can’t do with the game is limited by the provider of the service, developers or both. Superman mod or more hooks in Just Cause 2 are so much fun, nothing like several planes dancing around a tree.
I’m just not sure what will happen to gaming if there is no simple way for people to use a given game and make their own with it and provide it to everyone. Think about how many popular games spawned from mods or as simple as a modified gameplay mechanic from one game. A chance of losing this makes me feel sad.
22/06/2011 at 21:28 Zeewolf says:
No, they’re not PC-gaming and they’re a genuine threat to the PC as an open gaming platform.
22/06/2011 at 21:39 ResonanceCascade says:
Naw.
It’s not a binary, “either or” question. Cloud gaming has its place, local gaming has its place, and they’re both going to have a place in the future. It’s not going to kill PC gaming as we know it.
I can see it doing really well on the next generation of consoles though, and maybe even replacing at least one of the major consoles in the generation after next.
As codecs get more efficient and bandwidth becomes cheaper, streaming services like these will even start to look pretty damn good, too.
22/06/2011 at 21:52 The Sombrero Kid says:
He didn’t say it would kill it he said it was a threat.
22/06/2011 at 22:51 ResonanceCascade says:
I don’t think it’s a threat to the openness of the platform at all.
It’s much more of a threat to console makers than anyone, because it frankly doesn’t do and CAN’T do a lot of the things most PC gamers want. No one is going to be able to come in and force it on us from the top down, I think history has shown that with PC games.
Video-stream gaming is for the gamer who wants to game on their laptop, the gamer who likes the service as a supplement to what they already have, or the casual PC gamer who likes the convenience of it. If anything, it’s just filling in some glaring cracks we’ve had in the market for a long, long time.
22/06/2011 at 23:16 Finster says:
The cloud is the opposite of the personal computer. It is anti-PC. The cloud model wants you to have a dumb terminal on your desk that has no computing power of its own. The cloud wants to go back to the old days, where if you wanted to run a program you had to beg to get some computing cycles on the mainframe.
The cloud is dangerous. The cloud is about taking control away from you.
The more we support the cloud, the more successful the cloud becomes, the less need people have for their own computer, so the less people will buy them and the more expensive personal computers become. The success of the cloud is the death of the personal computer. If you believe in the PC, you must resist the cloud. This is war.
22/06/2011 at 23:54 ResonanceCascade says:
Well, this conversation just got really ridiculous really fast. :/
22/06/2011 at 21:30 Ertard says:
I tried the Red Faction demo on OnLive.
It kinda looked like a Youtube playthrough of the demo, although almost controllable. It looked like absolute complete shit, we’re talking PS2 resolution on everything here. It wasn’t even 60 FPS. The lag was bad and would never work for an online title, but it was sort of fine for smashing stuff to bits I guess. I would never ever pay for that level of quality however – there’s a reason why I have a big, powerful, computator under my desk. If I wanted a similar kind of experience I’d have a plastic box underneath my TV instead.
22/06/2011 at 21:30 Robin says:
I am going to do a proper writeup on this at some point, but in short:
Cloud gaming is being approached in a very naive way as a cure-all solution, in a very similar way to FMV when CD-ROM drives started to enter the mainstream.
There will be some games where running a game remotely, horfing down bandwidth while suffering unavoidable limitations in responsiveness and image quality will be fine. I expect consoles and internet televisions will offer a load of games of this kind, aimed at the casual audience.
Solutions that hybridise cloud gaming (or do everything locally as today) will be more appropriate in the majority of cases. Being tethered to a fat internet connection is not guaranteed when most of the devices we use are portable. Hardware power will continue to grow (and more sophisticated control interfaces will continue to proliferate), all at a commodity cost – there is no advantage to not running things locally that are integral to the game experience.
Onlive based their business model on the now historical ideas that people would keep upgrading their GPUs every 18 months, and that another two console generations would have passed with PS2-like dominance of a technically cutting edge system each time. Beyond the fact that they (presumably) hold some key patents, I think they’re an irrelevance in 2-3 years. (The increasingly insane and desperate proclamations of their CEO Steve Perlman make me suspect that we won’t even have to wait as long as that.) They’re a ‘Wireplay’ in a world that’s about to adopt the internet.
The best case scenario for PC gamers would be for a paranoid, consumer-hostile publisher (i.e. Ubisoft) to jump on board and make one of their key games a cloud gaming exclusive, and get burnt so catastrophically badly that the technology has to rebuild goodwill with publishers, based on realistic, actual advantages that it offers and when the majority of users’ connections are sufficiently high bandwith, over several years, instead of being able to ride on the wave of investor-driven hype it has at present.
Edit: Also, I think there is a serious logical flaw with the idea of allowing publishers to continue to make short, non-replayable, style over substance games and simply putting them on a streaming service instead of the ailing retail trade-in-after-a-week channel. The solution to people getting bored of being fucked over by AAA is not to try to entrap them and fuck harder.
22/06/2011 at 21:34 Robin says:
P.S. Please note, that at some point below in the comment thread, this story will be picked up by OnLive’s totally grassroots and definitely non-agenda-driven forum community, and reasoned discussion will become impossible, drowned out by anecdotes about people with amazing fibre connections in their homes, but strangely only a $300 netbook to connect to the internet with.
22/06/2011 at 23:07 belger0g says:
Yeah, this makes sense. When hardware is so cheap, all publishers have to do is provide a seamless distribution service, they just have to make it easy to buy and download stuff.
But in general I’m very much opposed to this kind of services. Nice technology considerations aside, I don’t like having all my stuff in the hands of someone else. I like to physically have my own data near me and do my own computing, thank you very much. Even Steam is a bit too much controlled for me, but use it because it’s convenient and because of the Steam sales.
Ideally everyone would follow GoG’s model. No DRM, no need to be connected to play (or no need to connect once to go offline like in Steam): just buy the game, get it digitally and that’s it, you have it on your computer. No need for “services”. Of course, that’s unlikely to happen.
As others have said, this is catastrophic for mods and tweaking in general, and those are central parts of PC gaming.
22/06/2011 at 21:33 Jimbo says:
It takes your Personal Computer and effectively turns it into a console. It’s the antithesis of PC gaming.
22/06/2011 at 21:36 ReV_VAdAUL says:
With net neutrality dying a slow death on both sides of the Atlantic I would imagine that we’ll see ISP exclusivity and stuff like that. Much as with Comcast buying NBC so as to control Hulu we’ll likely see eash ISP try and set up their own cloud gaming service and vying for exclusive rights to games, for at least a period of time, to try and make people join their service.
Expect rival services to get much less bandwidth in such a scenario.
22/06/2011 at 21:42 Surgeon says:
I think it would be eminently more viable if you could buy any game, and then upload it to your area on their server. So you just install your games on ‘the cloud’, and then play them from whatever device you want.
I’m not too interested at the moment though, although to be fair, I haven’t tried it out yet.
I’m loving the streaming service from Love Film, but it’s a backwards step as far as quality goes.
I think of this in the same way, so it may be fine for some games.
Anyone got any ideas what level loading times are like?
Is it comparable to SSD for instance?
22/06/2011 at 21:43 The Sombrero Kid says:
Personally, Onlive is the opposite of the pc in all the ways I care about. I care about the freedom of consumers and the freedom of developers that the PC enables, I care about the technological progress that direct ownership and modularity induce, I care about the empowerment that local processing allows for, these are the things that define me as a PC Gamer and they’re the reasons that for me Cloud Processing in any sense but specifically games is not an acceptable trade off and is certainly not a PERSONAL Computer.
That aside, i have to reiterate here as always when the subject of cloud processing is brought up, that the internet has has centralised data since it’s inception, because there is an economy of scale with data, there hasn’t been and will not be in the short to medium term future an economy of scale with data processing, this is why the internet has never tried to centralise processing & make no mistake this might be exclusive to gaming just now but these ideas have been and will be tried by all sorts of processing intensive industries and at least while the cheapest mainframe is a bunch of GPU’s which is our medium term future, they will all fail to provide a healthy economic case (that isn’t the same as failing commercially).
i.e. that’s a long way of saying that Onlive is at a very heavy disadvantage vs. personal computing and is only likely to succeed with the backing of a very economically healthy industry like say advertising.
22/06/2011 at 21:43 Pijama says:
I honestly do not like the idea of not having a “physical” copy – no matter they say, you are only renting the game.
This has a few economic implications, but the most important is that companies get full control over what content is available to you. Modding is a no-go, and you lose (in part) the ability to regulate demand – for example, you want to play a niche game X, and everyone else wants to play “Call of Duty X – Call Harder Mars Edition”. Sorry, your experience will probably be awful, and they are going to probably make a “premium subscription service” ad just for you so that you CAN PLAY YOUR DAMN GAME.
22/06/2011 at 21:43 Pointless Puppies says:
I don’t think OnLive will ever truly replace traditional gaming for a variety of reasons, but I personally find it and services like it fitting very nicely into a renting or “streaming” service, much like the PlayPack feature or Gaikai’s emphasis on demoing rather than selling.
I suppose it’s why I’m bewildered at so many people’s rage over these services. If anything, treat it like a rental. You don’t get to own those games and play them forever do you? I’d understand the complete dismissal of the idea if permanent sales were the ONLY thing offered on OnLive, but to me the value of the service stems mostly from the demoing and renting made easier.
22/06/2011 at 21:45 Bobsy says:
Honestly though, I don’t think PCs or consoles should consider cloud gaming that big a threat. TV and DVD co-exist happily (along with cinema); radio and CDs and mp3s continue to survive, as do live concerts. Cloud gaming might take a bite out of the market, but I don’t see it being able to swallow the whole thing.
22/06/2011 at 21:47 Hoaxfish says:
I’m joining the “No, it’s not” crowd. If anything it’s a new 3rd type, “cloud gaming” or something. Hell, they’re selling it as something you can play on a PC, consoles, special “thin-console” hardware, tablets, smartphones, etc… which is not something you can nail down as PC gaming.
If this is a question of “coverage” for a PC-only website, then it falls into the same definition as Flash gaming, etc. Only if it’s particularly note-worthy.
22/06/2011 at 21:47 Haversack says:
As of now it is a threat to PC gaming in its current form and business model, but if the technology ever arises that allows Client and Server to coexist/share processing a la “folding at home” style, we may see us PC master race giving process sharing for cash to the cloud/game service. I wouldn’t mind that at all.
On-Live, as it stands currently, is annoying since they give you an instance of a PC on a virtual machine and don’t allow you to choose/ pay more for more processing or better stats. It makes no sense to me why they don’t have different packages.
It also scares me to think of a game population like WoW switching to streaming only. Netflix (while I enjoy its use) is a huge internet hog, something like 21% of all internet traffic if I remember right.
On the other hand an MMO based on cloud tech could be really interesting, as far as possible persistent dynamic world kind of stuff goes, since you wouldn’t have to worry about sending or pre-loading assets on the client machine and you are just piping the client streaming video with some control listening you could do some crazy world editing type stuff. Minecraft on steroids with tons of players(Tech/Network willing).
22/06/2011 at 21:49 Serious J says:
Considering that most of the western world’s ISP’s are implementing bandwidth caps which is already affecting video streaming services: no, I don’t think we should take it seriously. However, it will have the opportunity to find success in markets that don’t have a broadband mindset straight out of a forced-obsolescence nightmare, such as Sweden, Korea etc…
And personally: I’m angry enough about our increasing low levels of control over our purchases as consumers as it is. I want to own things I pay for, not just have the right of access as long as the company chooses. These services provide nothing that I don’t already have access to, with better ownership and accessibility.
I think it’s a great tech, and it’s rather intriguing. But it’s not for me.
22/06/2011 at 21:51 wazups2x says:
I hate Onlive because of the terrible INPUT LAG. And there’s no avoiding it, there will always be a delay on the internet.
Other reasons I dislike OnLive:
- Low quality do to extreme compression.
- No mods
- No editing game configs
- No editing game period.
- Required internet connection to play
- Need to be close to a server and have a great internet
- It’s not guaranteed that you can play YOUR games after 3 years of being released.
- You don’t actually own your games.
Onlive is NOT PC gaming.
22/06/2011 at 21:53 golden_worm says:
I’ve had an idea! We could put a bunch of these cloud services in a cabinet and a bunch of cabinets in a room and make it so people have to put money in every time they want to have a go. Kind of like fruit machines but with proper computer games. Wadayafink?
22/06/2011 at 21:54 Qwentle says:
The main problem is that even with a datacenter in every major city, you’d still have a small amount of lag regardless of connection speed, purely due to distance from server. While games can specifically design around that (see the Wii in particular for examples of building unavoidable lag into gameplay mechanics), most PC-centric games tend to be based around fast responses (even slow paced games need to be able to respond quickly as pointer control suffers worse than most from lag).
For that reason I don’t think streaming gaming will ever get a major hand-held beyond specifically designed titles (though the demo thing is quite cool, you may come away with a bad feeling about the games).
22/06/2011 at 21:59 Synchrony says:
I imagine Google is watching onlive very carefully given this would be a huge boost to its entirely cloud based chrome os. As internet connections get faster and faster, and mobile broadband gets better coverage and a huge speed boost with the 4G roll out ahead I’d imagine this would really take off with someone like Google’s weight behind it
22/06/2011 at 21:59 Mr Monotone says:
Personally, I’m conflicted on the whole concept. On the one hand, it solves what for me is the biggest issue for getting in to PC gaming for most people which is the upfront cost. Being a poor (for a given value of poor, I’m not on the poverty line by any stretch) uni student, when my pc died last year I didn’t really have anywhere near enough money to replace it. Realistically I’m not going to have enough money to do so for at least another year or so. That means my gaming is reduced to my laptop and 360. The idea of being able to play games with a keyboard and mouse again, as well as in genres other than shooter is very attractive
On the other hand there are a huge number of problems that have already been mentioned. Requiring a clean network connection, lack of modability and being at the whim of the publishers are all things that won’t change no matter how good the technology gets. Then of course Indies would have difficulty getting on those platforms. Thinking of that future for PC gaming, I might rather wait another two years to be able to really get back in to it before seeing that level of choice stripped away.
22/06/2011 at 22:02 Om says:
Nope. Call me old fashioned but I like to play my games on my machine
22/06/2011 at 22:08 edit says:
Surely cloud gaming is the future of non PC gaming. The point of having a powerful computer is for it to do the computing, right? Computing power gets cheaper all the time. Why stream data from elsewhere that your computer could produce itself, adding input lag in the process? When lag is less of a problem cheap consoles could be a cool place for streaming. Others in certain situations or certain systems may also benefit, sure. I’d like to keep running programs on my PC though.
22/06/2011 at 22:19 El_MUERkO says:
I have zero interest in cloud gaming and that will never change.
22/06/2011 at 22:21 Snargelfargen says:
Arrgh
22/06/2011 at 22:24 Snargelfargen says:
Onlive and similiar programs will be a success IF publishers start generating content that targets the platform (Streaming content should really be considered a seperate platform, especially now that netbooks and to a lesser degree, tablets are in so many households). I can see episodic content being a big success. I would gladly spend 20$ or whatever on 5 hour AAA game that was good and didn’t need downloading. Indie games would benefit a lot from this as well.
Most of the games I currently play, really shine because of their depth, replayability or moddability. This kind of game will be Not Much Fun on a streaming platform.
RPS’ audience isn’t going to want to use onlive for the most part. My buddy who only has a netbook and a 360 on the other hand, thinks it is a great idea.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Onlive eventually partners with a hardware company to make a handheld device for their service.
22/06/2011 at 22:26 CaspianRoach says:
I live in the middle of Russia so it’s not my party I’m afraid. For this service to become totally awesome and widespread we need to seriously pump the computer connectivity technologies up. Because playing First Person Shooter with 100ms delay is like sticking needles under your fingernails or playing it with a joystick.
22/06/2011 at 22:29 StingingVelvet says:
As long as this co-exists with full retail or downloaded games I have no issue with it. Actually I can see it being a great boon to PC gaming, as more attention and effort would go into PC versions due to this new player-base. A future where you play a game on your couch with a console but it’s actually a PC version I can buy and play locally on my PC is a future I absolutely am fine with.
That said, the fear is that cloud gaming will REPLACE today’s gaming standards, which I would fine completely unacceptable. Even if they manage to get perfect 1080p uncompressed images across with no lag what-so-ever I would still not want to buy games for that service because you would own nothing. DRM attempts to make me own nothing but it is completely ineffective at doing so. OnLive is very effective, or rather would be with an exclusive.
So… equal measure excitement and dread, really.
22/06/2011 at 22:30 vodka and cookies says:
It’s an aspect of PC gaming for sure just like The Sims or Facebook games and other stuff which gets ignored by the stereotypical hardcore gamer.
But so is the iPad, with iOS5 breaking it’s tether to iTunes the iPad is a PC in all but name & even Apple Mac games rarely get any coverage at all here.
Whether it deserves coverage on RPS, I’d say the odd article keeping tabs on things is probably about right for the audience on RPS.
Cloud gaming will have it’s audience just like offline games will, everyone balked at Steam when it first came out and several years later it’s the considered the holy savior of PC gaming. One thing that will put a cramp on cloud gaming is the big American ISP imposing caps trying to screw over their customers, caps are not good for business just ask Netflix.
22/06/2011 at 22:44 rocketman71 says:
Nope.
OnLive and the rest go against everything a self-respecting PC Gamer should consider sacred.
Let the console gamers use them. Me?. Never!.
I hope.
22/06/2011 at 22:48 PoulWrist says:
I tried OnLive, and the graphical quality made me physically ill. No, not really, but it was quite horrible compared to what I could get from any decent 300 euro PC.
Would I trade in my electric heater / gaming PC for this? No, I would not. Would I in the future? Unless they make the quality equal to what I can get with a state of the art machine, then no.
I don’t own a netbook, I do own a laptop, but I don’t play on it because it’s not meant for it. I might have the odd game from GOG.com on there for a trainride where I’m out of books to read, but those are few and far between.
22/06/2011 at 22:48 Jabberwocky says:
Great piece.
-lights pipe-
-channels the twilight zone guy-
Imagine, dear friends, if you will, a future in which cloud gaming becomes the dominant form of playing games. The high end gaming PCs are gone. A lost relic of the past. Reminisced about like the horse drawn carriage, the telegraph, and dodo birds with blunderbusses.
In this dark future, it is not even possible to run a game in your own house. Our computers are dumbed down video players wired to kinnect bodysuits, incapable of summoning enough processing power to beat even a 3 year old toddler stricken with intellectual dwarfism at tic-tac-toe.
Publishing mega corp no longer even release program executables, stamping out the last vestiges of piracy and rebellion,. This top secret game code is locked away in the deep unhallowed vaults of Cloud Gaming Citadel. Were this code to escape, pirate cloud services would leap in to steal their piece of the pie, operating on the run from nomadic mud huts in north-southern Estonia. Flinching from the gaze of mega corp satellites.
The games have been brought to the masses. Oh yes. The masses, who gather to suckle at the tit of these cloud overlords like helpless opiate addicted piglets, who will pay anything, _DO_ anything, to get their fix.
Piracy has been eliminated.
But…
…
… at what cost?
…
… to humanity?
22/06/2011 at 22:53 passingstranger says:
Has the input lag improved at all over the last 6 months or so?
I tried OnLive a while ago with a free trial or beta invite and thought the concept was neat, but never, for a split-second, forgot that I was playing on a remote server. However small the mouse movement lag may be, it was enough to shatter the notion that OnLive could be comparable to a local computer for fast-paced gaming. I browsed through the short list of available titles and switched to UT3 to see how it holds up against some serious twitch gaming.
The answer is not well.
22/06/2011 at 22:58 gwathdring says:
I wonder how well this will do in the US. We don’t have very good consumer availability or afford-ability of high bandwidth lines.
22/06/2011 at 23:07 Jamesworkshop says:
And that’s before you get into the issue of not really owning anything – just renting access to something played somewhere else, and relying on the fact that the service doesn’t fold.
Can anyone point out a significant difference to this than with what we have today with stuff like farmvile, quake live, runescape, team fortress 2 or world of warcraft, world of tanks. the entire mmo market.
Cloud gaming is PC gaming, if blizzard was wiped out tommorow how many players of the biggest PC exclusive game, have to show for it, It would be as silly for RPS to discount cloud gaming as it would to ignore WoW, sure it uses in home processing power but otherwise behaves in excatly the same enviroment of non-ownership and in being a service not a product.
The reality is this in 20 years time the children of today are going to be very comfortable with this idea, 5 years ago HD streaming wasn’t even contemplated now it’s available without a thought on devices small than most laptop screens.
20 years time Streaming and cloud computing will be so ubiquitous and the internet capable of supporting it, I think Indie gaming would simply do the same much like we have no problems sticking videos on youtube or creating our own webcasts, no reason why any person couldn’t stream their own games.
22/06/2011 at 23:14 ecat says:
It’s a difficult sell to be honest. See the headline…
Cloud gaming is HERE, NOW, and it’s ok sometimes for some games on some devices if you can put up with the lag and don’t mind squinting a bit. ONLY $xx a month, individual games may incur an extra charge, terms and conditions apply.
And this is before you get to the small print: game availability is dependent upon popularity and capacity and time and age and licensing and the whims of the publishers.
If the masses ever embrace the cloud then I’m sure such a service will be inevitable, otherwise I remain unconvinced the long term viability. The future of cloud based gaming is heavily dependent upon the forward march of technology, at the same time it is the forward march of technology that will be its demise.
Remember the olden days, 5 to 10 years ago? Console manufactures hatched a cunning plan of assembling a device from expensive parts which they then dumped on the market at below cost only to recoup their profits by charging a licensing fee on each console game sold. It was a bit of risk but after 2 or 3 years the subsidised consoles started to turn a profit and things more or less worked out. Well, there’s some bad news for these manufacturers, someone else has taken their plan, pumped it full of steroids and released it to an even bigger market.
Smart phones and tablets are the focus of massive research and development budgets just now, they sell by the million and the highly successful ‘subsidised by contract’ business model appears to be returning profits by the bucket load. The hand held market is awash with punters wanting to play games, this generation of hardware is already approaching PS360 levels and with NViDIA promising to increase performance x100 over the next 2 years (vs Tegra), just what space is left for low res. high lag cloud? Indeed, what does the future of the next generation of 5 to 7 year cycle consoles hold?
I suspect the NextGen will depend upon a new subscription model, time to save up for your triple platinum access fees, or not, since you already own a phone.
The PC? The PC will evolve as always. Always the more powerful option in the long run, at worst the PC can always emulate the lesser devices. Given a chance. Given Android. At best we are back the glorious(?) days of 2 year upgrade cycles and graphics soooooo realistic that they reach out and slap you in the face… Sigh.
An earlier post mentioned the death of AAA PC gaming. Well, I think the death of PC AAA gaming could well be the current generation of AAA games! Do I really want to buy another action game with bad controls and screwed up UI, a game that doesn’t even fill my computer screen? Apart from Alice of course, she has such lovely dresses :)
22/06/2011 at 23:22 A-Scale says:
Just tried it out again. Slow, ugly, laggy. Hardly worth keeping installed.
22/06/2011 at 23:35 jack4cc says:
PC gaming involves a PC. Cloud bullshit involves shelling out money for a whole lot of nothing like a heroin addict, as soon as you stop paying, there is nothing left.
22/06/2011 at 23:45 geokes says:
For me being able to mod games is the main reason for being a PC gamer, so cloud gaming for me is just console gaming.
22/06/2011 at 23:46 0p8 says:
“There was still an element of lag which made things feel a bit dreamlike”
so thats a no thanx from me then.
to answer the question as to whether you should report on it i say no.(but i kinda want it to be successfull in the hope that developers concentrate more on pc gaming).
22/06/2011 at 23:47 Azradesh says:
Frankly “cloud” computing in all it’s forms can go die in a fire.
22/06/2011 at 23:52 I LIKE FOOD says:
edit* FEAR 3 does look like fun though.
22/06/2011 at 23:52 Soon says:
I think it’s fantastic for demos, but if all games ended this way then the industry won’t get any of my money. My biggest problem is not the mods or ownership (which are also obvious problems) but that the provider of the service gains far too much control, or other government powers can control the provider. Things can be blocked and censored instantly. What if they start filtering content, deciding what’s appropriate, etc.
However! What it could lead to is the fabled cyberspace of science fiction. Our digital, parallel World, accessible from almost anywhere, users allowed to create and build their own content. An open, cyber universe where anything is possible. And that’s quite exciting.
22/06/2011 at 23:59 malkav11 says:
Onlive and similar services are basically the dystopian endpoint of gaming. No rights. No control over your experience whatsoever. DRM beyond anything we’ve seen. It should be fought unto the last breath.
As a way to “buy” games, anyway. As a technology for secure rentals, advertisement, demoing, with a sensible price plan and concurrent with actual purchase channels that permit a full, unfettered and un-DRMed copy to land in my grubby little hands if I so desire, it could be great. That just doesn’t seem to be the direction it’s headed.
23/06/2011 at 00:01 geldonyetich says:
It’s probably the only effective cure to rampant piracy – which, as pertains to the PC platform, is completely off the hook right now with something like 75-95% of users pirating by every reasonable measure – but cloud gaming has one critical hurdle to jump first.
You might think that hurdle is, “latency.” That was, but not so much anymore, that’s what makes cloud gaming possible in the first place. The current hurdle is, “unlimited bandwidth“. In many countries, such as Canada and throughout Europe, very few people have unlimited bandwidth.
That’s what’s been undermining cloud gaming. People try out a cloud gaming service, then their ISP calls up and tells them that they’re using way too much bandwidth and they’ll either pay a whole lot more for their Internet service or have it shut off. It uses a TON of bandwidth to receive constant updates from games being played remotely.
23/06/2011 at 00:51 ChromeBallz says:
I wouldn’t take an opinion piece as fact, especially not when all quoted numbers where from publishers or developers themselves. It also ignores the number of people who didn’t come online at all with their purchases even if the numbers were legit (especially in the case of World of Goo).
Pirating numbers should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, especially if said companies are still making 50%+ profit of selling games for the PC platform.
23/06/2011 at 03:13 geldonyetich says:
I’m talking about bandwidth being the restriction on cloud gaming and you’re trying to refute piracy is so ridiculously out of control that developers are tempted to try radical solutions like cloud gaming. Mmm, sure sounds pro-piracy in here! However, when the overwhelming majority of PC games have made the transition to DLC, Subscription-based models, item based models, and online digital distribution – all methods that require you register and identify yourself to them – saying that piracy on the PC isn’t completely off the hook is calling the sky blood red.
23/06/2011 at 06:01 malkav11 says:
1) Subscription/item sale models don’t even come close to constituting a majority of PC games today. Maybe, at most, a majority of MMOs and/or casual Facebook games. And DLC is not a PC exclusive phenomenon. Not even close. Digital distribution is, admittedly, going strong, but that’s had no measurable impact on piracy and has plenty of other motivations.
2) DLC is certainly not about piracy (it’s trivial for pirates to obtain DLC, for one thing). It is about continuing to milk money out of a product where most of the costs have already been sunk. In fact, that’s pretty clearly the motivation behind subscription and item sale models, too.
3) Even if piracy were the primary motivation behind the things you cite (which you have completely failed to support), that would be evidence that the corporations have their collective underwear in a bunch over the paranoid -perception- that piracy is rampant and destroying their profits etc etc. The reality of the situation has nothing to do with it, and their thinking that does not establish that it is in fact so. Lord knows, America is plenty full of people taking widespread action over threats that are either nonexistent or blown far out of their actual proportion.
23/06/2011 at 10:13 geldonyetich says:
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. At least I provided a link to a guy who researched piracy a bit. All your conclusions here are completely unsubstantiated and yet you have the gull to demand I’m the one not providing adequate proof.
You’re dead wrong about DLC not being considered an anti-piracy measure (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bioware-to-beat-piracy-with-dlc ) and are probably just as wrong with most everything else you just said. Do a little research before mouthing off to people you think are wrong on the Internet next time.
23/06/2011 at 00:16 noobnob says:
I already decided I don’t like it, for several reasons already stated, and am really skeptical with the consumer adoption rate of cloud-gaming services in the coming years.
But it has yet to be seen how many in the gaming industry will actually buy the idea as well. So far, I haven’t heard of any multiplayer games taking off in OnLive, which are important for most publishers because they tend to sell lots of copies. There isn’t much information on how game updates are handled, how DLC can be integrated in the games (if they can be integrated at all), whether the game can connect to 3rd party networks, such as the publisher’s own multiplayer servers or stats servers, etc.
Basically, how much control do publishers have over the games that they place in the OnLive network? There isn’t much information from the game industry’s perspective and it’s not very clear to me that the industry actually wants to embrace a cloud streaming environment when they can handle it (edit: the game’s access) themselves, with their own services, without having to worry about yet another gatekeeper handling their games. The PC is an open platform after all, and if it wasn’t the case, things such as Battle.net, Steam and Origin wouldn’t exist.
23/06/2011 at 00:25 pizzapicante27 says:
I think the tech needs some 5-10 years more, why? because in countries like mine (Mexico, a 3rd world country), while really highspeed internet (10-20mbps) is available it is:
a)expensive as hell.
and
b)unstable as crap
I wouldnt want my game stopping just before that checkpoint after 3 hours because my connection decided to take a dip for 10 secs, so yeah I think it is the near-future, just not near enough yet.
23/06/2011 at 00:26 Batolemaeus says:
It’s not even a contest for me. I love modding, I love tinkering. Some of the stuff I use in my day to day life isn’t even possible via remote desktop, which I use often for anything but multimedia related to access the raw power of my desktop from an old notebook.
But for games?
I mean, it could work if you see games as the equivalent of a hollywood blockbuster. Quickly discarded, with no lasting impact, only to be consumed in rapid succession and replaced by the next one.
My games aren’t like that. My games are all intricate, complex things. Like when I put on my favourite Album for a very specific moment, I choose from my collection of games according to my mood. Streaming my personal modded version of X3TC or Oblivion or Fallout or Sim City 4 or Wurm Online…it’ll never happen. No sane company is going to allow that on their servers. I could see someone developing a next gen remotedesktop server and client for home users who want access to their games via their home connection, and I might even be interested in that for a lan or man environment. But it becomes unpractical for anything where the physical distance is too high anyway.
23/06/2011 at 00:28 Turkey says:
I don’t know. It seems better suited for super linear setpiece driven games than anything else. For any game you’d want to spend any significant time with, it just seems like a hassle.
23/06/2011 at 00:37 Superbeing says:
As innovative and and useful as the technology is, I just can’t find this sort of thing viable up here north in Canada where we are constrained by datacaps. If datacaps were to be abolished though, I would be all in for this type of system. Now that I have a high-end pc, I would certainly wouldn’t subscribe, but I have plenty of friends who are less tech-savy as I am and I would be more than happy to recommend such a service to them.
23/06/2011 at 00:47 MythArcana says:
Well, it’s all quite plausible due to the fact that the majority of game developers these days continue to pump out console port flops and pose them as PC titles. These cloud games will simply be streamed over like cheap RealMedia porn clips like back in the 90′s and the quality and substance of these titles will be even worse (if you can even imagine) than today’s console trash.
So, yeah…it will happen; the only question is, will you support the mediocrity and then get on here to complain about it after you feel ripped off or simply vote with your wallet to bring true PC gaming back into fashion.
23/06/2011 at 01:06 Mayjori says:
disregard
23/06/2011 at 01:40 Davie says:
There are far too many potential problems with cloud gaming for me to ever consider paying money for it, most of which were mentioned above. Essentially, I want my own game that I can install, play and modify whenever I want, regardless of what’s going on at some server halfway across the country. Digital distribution is great, but in any case I want all the game data on my own PC, not someone else’s.
23/06/2011 at 01:50 Catalept says:
I’m not at all sure what’s going on here. The target audience is people with oodles of bandwidth, vast data caps, and pissweak PCs? As far as I can tell, we’re long past the point where reasonable performance on new releases requires particularly expensive hardware (Crysis notwithstanding… high, very high, extreme. Indeed). Nevermind the fact that most people in most parts of the world don’t even have such thick, throbbing interpipes… or if they do, they’ve got better things to do with it.
Or is it meant to appeal to people who are sick to death of plunking down $50US or more for a mediocre 8 hour-long experience, but are quite happy to pay a per-month fee for that self-same experience… only with nothing tangible whatsoever at the end (or indeed beginning)? Is cloud-gaming an end-run around the increasing failure of AAA releases to deliver actual value for money? Good luck with that. No. Really.
23/06/2011 at 02:26 Freud says:
There is nothing that kills my enjoyment of gaming more than input lag. I don’t think I would be able to enjoy even something like the Total War series with it. And it gets much worse for any kind of action game or shooter.
23/06/2011 at 02:35 Squishpoke says:
I would have been really into Onlive, if they had service in my area.
23/06/2011 at 03:23 alilsneaky says:
Ugh , why is RPS dignifying it’s existence.
We jump through all these hoops to reduce input lag as much as possible and get 1:1 mouse input, and then you go suggest that cloud gaming is somehow viable, despite introducing a large amount of input lag.
PC is also an open platform, cloud gaming takes away the chance to mod, customise, reskin etc.
Input lag doesn’t belong in gaming at all, and this closed limited shit belongs even less on pc.
23/06/2011 at 03:29 smoke.tetsu says:
All this talk about 20-50ms of lag being bad. I live in the US and have 80ms ping to sites like google on my 1.5Mbps which is the highest I can get where I live. So add that to the natural amount of input lag a game has (not replace it’s all additive) and consider the loss of image quality I’d have to suffer as well. Think I would want that? No… theoretically things could improve in the future but that is probably way off and I’m not concerned about that I’m more concerned about the here and now.
I also like being able to mod my config files (some games try to be one size fits all when it comes to things like that and they can’t be… just go to widescreen gaming forum to see what I mean) and run game mods as well.
It’s like they want us to think of PC Gaming just like console gaming or watching movies. Although even with watching movies I’d rather have it locally as I’d get better quality there too… with gaming it’d be even worse.
23/06/2011 at 04:11 InternetBatman says:
I think AAA publishers will love it. It will give them a far greater ability to go platform independent and will make porting the easiest thing on the planet. Also, it will give them a graceful way to turn games like Fifa, Madden, and Call of Duty into subscription service. If you’re graceful and the games are good enough few people will care about the privileges that are taken away. Steam is graceful drm with questionable ownership rights and I love it.
I don’t think that Onlive or Gaikai being particularly relevant though. I don’t know if the technology is unique enough or expensive enough to develop that the major publishers won’t just push them out of the way and run the service on their own. I think the real deciding factor is going to be the horde of indies and AA developers. Will they want to negotiate with another party? Are impulse subscription/ access buys as likely as impulse downloads, especially when there are five or ten more shooters also offering demos?
Personally, I’d like to know how you can buffer for games without developing them specifically for streaming. You might be able to fudge it a little with autoaim and movement guessing, but I don’t quite get how you can take a single player game and have it run smoothly without the computer running some of it locally. WoW uses a ton of fudges created by smart people, and even it doesn’t always run smoothly.
23/06/2011 at 04:33 Bluebreaker says:
no, because cloud gaming is not a Personal Computer.
23/06/2011 at 05:19 Ateius says:
Being from Canada, where our service providers have no competition and as such squeeze us dry, I cannot afford the inevitable overage charges that would result from streaming entire video games across my internets. As such, all this streaming-cloud-gaming malarkey means nothing to me. I wonder how many other nations have such restrictive internet access; I’ve heard rumours lately that AT&T in the U.S. is trying to introduce it. Could streaming games still be viable in that world?
23/06/2011 at 05:44 cw8 says:
No, and no thanks
- Rental of games instead of owning them
- Streaming instead of having your hardware in front of u
- Monthly subscription to play SP games
- No mods
- Like to have the machine in front of me especially when there is something wrong with the game so I can troubleshoot immediately instead of having to wait for them to fix the problem.
23/06/2011 at 06:01 Frank says:
Backward compatibility to the beginning of time? Sign me up.
23/06/2011 at 06:25 Corrupt_Tiki says:
Ewww Ewwww!
I suddenly feel the need to clean my guns some more.
23/06/2011 at 07:29 Rii says:
Great article Mr. Meer, lots of good points and food for thought.
“That kind of thing could be an enormous way of driving sales – and potentially torpedoing a game’s success, if a quick play of the opening section suggests it’s a stinker. (So if this really did take off, I can imagine publishers/developers making games with this in mind – making the first half hour astonishingly good at the possible expense of the later stages).”
It’s not like we don’t already see this. GTA4 and Bioshock did it, to name two recent high-profile examples.
23/06/2011 at 07:32 Zanchito says:
These services might be fine for game rentals, but for games I like, nothing beats having a local copy I can play whenever I want, with top notch performance and visuals, and MODDING capabilities. I’m replaying Oblivion with a ton of mods and it looks gorgeous, has lots of new mechanics, high quality new adventures and is a huge improvement over the original release. That, along the possibility of complex input controls is why I love PC gaming.
23/06/2011 at 09:58 kenoxite says:
Modding is definitely something to take into consideration for any eventual purchase in OL. That’s also something that adds to the “console” feeling of this service.
23/06/2011 at 09:16 kenoxite says:
Several observations after a couple weeks of use a while back:
1. It’s an exceptional concept and the service works surprisingly well, particularly considering that I’ve tried this using (supposedly) the US servers while on Europe.
2. That said, the inevitable lag renders most FPS unplayable. That’ll probably change once the european servers are opened, but it’s still funny that with this inherent limitation to this service the majority of OL’s catalog are FPS.
+ Metro, Aliens vs Pred, Kain&Lynch 2… those games are playable as long as you only fight against one or two enemies. Against mobs you’re pretty much screwed. Those extra milliseconds killed me every single time.
3. As a PC gamer I’m not sure how I feel about this service. While you can indeed play with a mouse+keyboard most of the games are: a) console ports; b)games with simplified controls. Both favor the use of a gamepad to play all the games there. In other words, I don’t expect games of any complexity like, say, STALKER to be there anytime soon.
+ That said, I recall seeing a Patrician, so maybe they’re more open than I think
4. I’m only using it to “rent” and play the “demo” of games that I had some interest in but I didn’t want to buy, or that my ancient laptop can’t even dream running. I’m not sure I’ll ever “buy” a game there unless it’s an excellent promo (and with that I mean even cheaper than a Christmas Steam sale). I can live with the digital distribution of games (in fact, I prefer that to boxes) but this cloud,” ‘own’ it for 3 years then who knows” rule, still makes me feel a bit nervous. If you’re scared that you’ll lose your games if/when Steam closes down this is the same, if not worse.
5. Even if lag isn’t that much of an issue when the european servers are launched, don’t expect to be able to play MP with everybody else. In the US OnLive creates their own servers for that, and OL players are forced to play there (because of the input lag, which would put them on a disadvantage against real PC gamers). So, like a console.
TL;DR: great service for specific purposes, and it’s more a console substitute than a PC substitute.
23/06/2011 at 09:36 sonofsanta says:
Points:
* This is obviously designed to run on PCs at OnLive’s end. Ergo, games will be written for the PC. Hopefully publishers will be smart enough to realise that they may as well release this as a stand alone game, albiet probably after some timed exclusive with OnLive etc. Counterpoint: it’ll be optimized specially for OnLive and run like gash on any other PC and never get any real care or attention in patches.
* Bandwidth caps have been mentioned, net neutrality is another issue that could impact on this, particularly with the concept being in grave danger in this country (if it isn’t already dead, thanks a lot, Ofcom).
* I can’t even stream videos all that successfully at the moment, where a predictable buffer can be built up. Digital distribution is undoubtedly the future, but I much prefer Steam’s model of wait a bit and then know you’re set (particularly with ease of installation), rather than wait a bit, then play a bit, then wait a bit more, then play a bit, then cry when your wireless breaks, then play again, then give up and go to bed.
So I think yes, there will be a market, but I suspect it will forever remain a niche, and consoles are more likely to be threatened (where users are perhaps not so demanding) than the wunderkid that is the PC.
23/06/2011 at 09:42 sonofsanta says:
To, er, answer the question though: yeah, cover it, as it’s an area of fascination and growth and we don’t know how it will turn out. I think it’s more PC related than console related right now.
23/06/2011 at 09:49 Gundrea says:
Ah yes, “Software as a Service”. How did we in the industry ever get fat off of company money before we came up with the idea of charging for a service instead of a product.
23/06/2011 at 09:55 bill says:
It seems to rely on local area systems though. Which means it’s useless if they don’t have some kind of servers in the area.
Seems to work ok for the UK and US, but what about the rest of the world? And what about if you travel – on the one hand it’d be hand to get games anywhere.. but right now you can’t.
23/06/2011 at 10:08 bill says:
Which is to say – I’d be the perfect customer for many of these online cloud services (this, hulu, iplayer, spotify, etc…) IF they’d actually let me have any of them – which they don’t.
Cloud based my ass – if they were cloud based then you’d be able to see them from everywhere – but right now cds/dvds are more portable and worldwide. gah.
23/06/2011 at 11:17 hamster says:
Just curious: how does it work technically? I mean something like Call of Duty, for example, sold millions of copies. How much output are we expecting from each Onlive “computer/server” (not clear on the term)? If it’s 1:1 that’s like a million computers/servers rendering and streaming the game, isn’t it? I mean the computers really are processing the games in real time, aren’t they, so how many home PCs can each computer/server stream to simultaneously?
23/06/2011 at 17:38 disperse says:
There’s lots of anti-cloud gaming sentiment here so I’ll try to balance it a bit with my experience with the service.
It works for me because:
I’m in the US on a 10MB/s connection with no cap.
My primary PC is a three-year-old gaming laptop with a 1280×720 resolution display.
OnLive was perfect for playing through Alpha Protocol with an XBox 360 controller while lying in bed.
I was also able to enjoy Just Cause 2 while playing with mouse and keyboard.
Amnesia: Dark Descent with mouse and keyboard was OK but the dragging puzzles seemed to be very sensitive to any input lag at all.
Cloud gaming isn’t going to replace Games That Matter like Dwarf Fortress, Minecraft, Mount & Blade, or Spelunky. What it does is allows me to emulate a modern console inside of my outdated PC hardware.
24/06/2011 at 16:36 RegisteredUser says:
Most of the criticisms already mentioned plus my opinion of “I f*cking hope they all die in a fire.”.
It’s DRM in a “We just want what’s best for YOU!” disguise.
25/06/2011 at 14:05 kache says:
The only moment when cloud gaming will have success on PC it will be when it will be able to run also console games.
I would give anything to play Bayonetta, but I hate consoles, and I don’t want to buy one, so if Onlive lets me play it I WILL pay to play it (the rent thing is very interesting).
26/06/2011 at 12:55 hungrytales says:
4 pages ton of comments and NOBODY made a OnLive-Linux connection. Unbelievable!
OnLive itself hasn’t figured that out so far, which is even more inexplicable. And IT IS the final solution for Linux gaming. Am I the only madman seeing this as The Ultimate Nail to the Microsoft Coffin?
27/06/2011 at 22:08 Alpha Bootis says:
The thing is, in the beginning they were like; with our service you could play crysis on maximum settings on your Commodore 64.
Obviously this is not the case, and with the actual games costing just about as much as the real thing accept you don’t have anything physical and the subscription fee for two years buys you a decent gaming rig, i still don’t see how this will work. Ever.
The renting thing would be something if the subscription fee didn’t exist. But it does, so its not.
I don’t see myself using these kind of services in a permanent manner, not at current pricing at least. If only just for the fact i can thoroughly enjoy getting things like the Collectors Edition of F.3.A.R. and put it on display and just be content with the physical thing it is.
Steam is the exeption that confimes the rule. How can you resist getting a digital copy of diamonds like mass effect for less then 2 drinks at a bar on saturday night. I can’t, but when it comes to new titles, if i buy i want the real thing, if possible with as much bullshit as it comes. *looks lovingly at grotesque pregnant alma statue*