Football Manager Fans Give DRM Red Card

By Jim Rossignol on September 28th, 2011 at 11:55 am.


The news horn of Eurogamer sounds a clear note of DRM alarm as it points out this voluminous thread on the Football Manager 2012 forums. The situation nothing like as venomous as other DRM solutions we’ve seen of late, being a one-time only Steam activation, but it has nevertheless been greeted with scorn by thousands of players. Publishers Sega have responded defending the DRM solution, and saying: “Make no mistake, if a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012, the sales of the game worldwide would more than double. This would lead to increased development budgets and more benefits for all of you who do buy the game.”

Oh dear.

, .

198 Comments »

Sponsored links by Taboola
  1. LionsPhil says:

    If a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012

    If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

    • Premium User Badge

      Colthor says:

      And we’d all have steak for dinner.

    • Askeladd says:

      Some of us have. Some of us…

    • jti says:

      They haven’t heard about cracking?

    • Premium User Badge

      Jerricho says:

      Obvious point is obvious but haven’t all published experiments with dropping DRM and such thus far shown that the conversion rate to sales was more like 1 in 1000?

    • Heliocentric says:

      If one quarter of the pirates bought 4000 copies each, we could buy the moon.

    • Premium User Badge

      jimbobjunior says:

      If wishes were horses, I’d wish for more horses.

    • Plivesey says:

      “If wishes were fishes, we’d all cast nets.” – Gurney Halleck.

    • MiniMatt says:

      Um – how do they know how many people pirated the game? I can’t think of any metric that could come close to a reliable figure without a gigantic margin of error. They just going on number of unique IPs seen in a torrent stream or something?

    • Dachannien says:

      If you walk without rhythm, it won’t attract the worm. — Fatboy Slim

    • BisonHero says:

      @Dachannien: Well, Dune, but hopefully I’m pointing out the obvious. Also, I don’t know how I’m even supposed to interpret that phrase within the context of an article about DRM.

  2. Premium User Badge

    lhzr says:

    huh, so people are upset about games using steam now? when did this happen?

    • chris says:

      Football manager players, in general, aren’t gamers. I guess to them Steam is as useless as Origin is to all those BF players who use Steam and its community for all their other gaming needs.

    • Baboonanza says:

      The problem is that a lot of people who play FM don’t play any other PC games, so they haven’t installed Steam before. There is also a lot of misinformation about the offline mode around.

    • Premium User Badge

      Yachmenev says:

      Chris: FM has been one the most played games through Steam for years, despite the piracy, so a large portion of the fanbase are very familiar with Steam.

    • Alexander Norris says:

      lhzr: and that’s a bad thing because…?

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      Indeed, FM2009 was the game which got me, reluctantly, to install Steam in the first place. Even through FM2010 it was pretty much the only thing I used Steam for, until I discovered Steam sales…

      Edit: Also, let’s be clear here: this is not a DRM-free title moving to DRM, it’s a title which has previously offered a choice of DRM methods (Uniloc, I think?) and is moving to a single one.

    • apocraphyn says:

      I’m not a fan of Steam, personally. I see why people do like it and I suppose it does have it’s conveniences, but – regardless – it is still DRM in the end. I would much prefer to be able to install a game and not be forced to install third party software through which I then have to access in order to play the game. (Then again, I also mourn the loss of needlessly large cardboard boxes for my games).

      Baboonanza and Chris underlined the point pretty perfectly, anyway. Definitely rings true for my father, at least – he’s an experienced PC gamer himself and has a mighty soft spot for Football Manager. He can’t abide Steam whatsoever.

    • Premium User Badge

      lhzr says:

      @alex: I didn’t say it was a bad thing, I was just a bit surprised that a game using Steam could be considered anything else than a perfectly normal thing right now.

      Also aren’t football managers single player games? Can’t those non-gamers that play this sort of thing just crack it, if they despise Steam so much?

      People on the internet are constantly upset about most things. It’s some kind of internet rule, I think.

    • mike2R says:

      That’s an interesting point – that a significant number of FM players are not regular gamers and will not already have Steam.

      I think most people who have been “forced” to install Steam when they didn’t choose to will automatically object. I know I did when I bought (I guess) Half Life 2 and had to install this random crap I’d never heard of to get it to work.

      So maybe it will cause a problem in acceptance that it wouldn’t for a game with a more normal user demographic. I doubt it though – there are so many content Steam users that people who are genuinely suspicious due to unfamiliarity will be reassured, and the remainder won’t be much larger than the usual anti-Steam brigade that most publishers seem happy to ignore.

    • chris says:

      @Yachmenev – I didn’t realise this, my mistake. Me and my mates used to play Champo religiously back in the late 90’s early 00’s and I wouldn’t class anyone I know who played/still plays as a gamer other than myself. it’d be interesting to see how many other games FM players have in their Steam library compared to others.

    • Shadowcat says:

      I was just a bit surprised that a game using Steam could be considered anything else than a perfectly normal thing right now.

      Just because it’s “normal” (or common), doesn’t make it good or desirable. Steam has always been crap in many respects, and at this point I strongly suspect it always will be. Forcing it on a game is just wrong.

  3. airtekh says:

    I thought the FM games have been using Steam for a few years now?

    • Ian says:

      Yes but for FM12 it’s going to be a requirement.

    • starclaws says:

      A requirement… Unless they crack the activation… But kind of lame that a generally offline game requires online activation. Surprised there isn’t a phone activation system yet for people. Call this number and send them your games serial number or some other kind of number and then receive a activation number in return and you can play your game without requiring internet. Just have to find a payphone or borrow a phone. This should be the BACKUP SYSTEM if you want sales for offline players.

      If they just continue to develop a successful product. The fan base will continue to grow exponentially. DRM or not. Sales WILL increase. But the new product must be better than the old one without too many issues. FM2010 had some major issues for quite a while and many didn’t upgrade for a long time.

      But steam isn’t all that bad anymore. All the newbies have no idea how terrible steam was when it first launched. I signed up and had steam pre-release day and have been using it since. It has come a long way since then. It is a strong and successful system now.

  4. Premium User Badge

    Yachmenev says:

    Stop scaring me RPS. Requiring Steam to play game is not a problem for a majority of PC gamers. This is not news really. I mean, older versions of FM bought on disc could be activated on Steam if you wanted.

    If you can´t accept Steam, then you can´t play Civ 5, Mafia II, Portal 2, etc either.

    • Nice Save says:

      “If you can´t accept Steam, then you can´t play Civ 5, Mafia II, Portal 2, etc either.”

      Add Skyrim, DX:HR, plus many others.

      It scares me that people think this is OK.

    • Premium User Badge

      Yachmenev says:

      It´s the lesser evil, and I actually enjoy Steam because of the features it provides. It´s perfectly ok with me.

    • Bremze says:

      The same people saying that they are fine with Steam, explode in a blood filled rage, when they have to use Origin for BF3. Which is quite ironic, when remembering the response to Steam on its launch.

    • skinlo says:

      Except Steam has proven its Value, Origin hasn’t.

      There are advantages to being first to the market in something.

    • LionsPhil says:

      I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to say that Origin compares unfavourably to Steam, given anyone who actually cares about dealing with them will talk about how they are now, not how Steam once was.

      In addition, people are invested in Steam, both in terms of having bought a game library in it, and in having become used to using it as a central location for their games. Adding more central locations for their games does not help them; you only want one. And Steam got there first, so it won.

    • Khemm says:

      “Requiring Steam to play game is not a problem for a majority of PC gamers. ”

      Awesome argument. Hear this one: always-online DRM is not a problem for a majority of PC gamers. MMOs and Facebook games do fine with it and make buckets of money.
      Everyone, make all your games require constant internet connection now!

      “If you can´t accept Steam, then you can´t play Civ 5, Mafia II, Portal 2, etc either.”

      And that is supposed to FINE? Really? Lack of choice on the PC platform = OK? Why can’t we have digital distribution platform-agnostic solutions? If I buy Civ 5 from Gamersgate or a shop across the street, why the hell do I have to install Steam and increase Steam’s user base number? So that Gabe N. can later boast “we have 40 million happy customers now, come on publishers, use Steam DRM too, increase the number of those super happy gamers further for me!” ?

    • Premium User Badge

      Tiktaalik says:

      Yeah, Steam is a useful service and what I’ve used to activate the last few FMs on anyway. If we’re going to have DRM (and we are going to have DRM) it might as well be something that’s useful to me, is widely used and is unobtrusive.

    • Tams80 says:

      For most FM player this is not the issue, but on principle I don’t like “It’s fine for most people, so just accept it”. It feels like “I’m alright Jack, pull up the ladder”. DRM is DRM. No if it were launch only DRM or one time activation; then I might be alright with it.

    • Premium User Badge

      UW says:

      I object to the requirement of any system, but since I’m deeply entrenched in Steam now it might as well be the one that I’m required to have. Since I already have it.

      What I massively object to is requiring more than one of these things. I get that people are trying to muscle in on the market, but personally I am far less likely to buy a game if it uses anything other than Steam.

      Not because I think Steam is great, but because I already HAVE Steam. I’ve already used it a lot, and it will take more than missing out on a couple of games to push me to another platform I haven’t invested in.

    • Baines says:

      The problem for me is that Steam *should* be a problem, or at least a concern, of more PC gamers.

      Everyone flips out over the idea of Origin, but they are fine with Steam. Steam pulls some EA games, and everyone flips out at EA. EA changes its TOS to prevent Origin users from joining class action lawsuits against them, and everyone flips out, but no one cares that the Steam TOS includes stuff like agreeing that your sole remedy for dispute with Steam is to quit using Steam.

    • El_Emmental says:

      there’s a simple reason :

      – Steam is run by Gabe Newell/Valve, who never *deeply* betrayed gamers (L4D2 is not a real betrayal – and I am still in the boycott group) and is a privately held company (= no shareholders).

      – Origin is run by EA, who frequently betrayed gamers, mistreated its studios (!), its developers (! ea_spouse ftw) and its customers for at least 20 years now.
      => And it’s a publicly traded company, run by its shareholders who need/want their money back as fast as possible. They also choose the CEO and can remove him if they’re not happy with his business practices.

      ” what ? ethics ?! what do you think you are, a social worker ? haha! … *take-him-away* ”

      It’s like saying “Why do you lend your money to friends, and not to an unknown convicted who HAVE to pay his crack each month ?”

      Trust is the most important element regarding a platform, and EA never proved a reliable and trustworthy company. Hence the bad press regarding Origin.

    • V. Profane says:

      A large amount of FM players don’t care about playing Civ 5, Mafia II, Portal 2, etc or anything else at all.

    • Nice Save says:

      I have nothing against Steam really, I just don’t want to use it and I don’t see why I should have to.

      There’s a difference between objecting to a game being on Steam, and objecting to it being only on Steam, and it seems like the defenders treat both arguments as the same thing.

      I don’t want you to not be able to use Steam for your games if that’s what you’re into, but the rest of us are in that exact situation with our own distribution methods.

  5. Jams O'Donnell says:

    So do I understnad correctly that the DRM is pretty much just regular Steam authentication? Why is this a big deal to the people whining about it?

    • Drake Sigar says:

      I’m regularly playing games from 10-20 years ago. Will I be able to do that with Steam games?

    • Nim says:

      F**k no! You won’t be able to do that with any game regardless of distribution platform. The hardware changes and operating system changes will account for the fact that if you desire to play older games you’ll have to create an emulated environment for them to function inside of in about 20 years time. See emulators for a real life example.

      Also you don’t buy the game, you never bought the game. YOU WILL NEVER BUY THE GAME!!!!
      You buy a license to play the game. You get a CD-Key. Input that cd-key into a pirated copy and suddenly it’s a legal copy. So if Steam goes down, just take your purchased cd-key and use that.

    • LionsPhil says:

      I knew we were in for a good one when the phrase “operation system” showed up. Thanks for the laugh, Nim.

    • Nim says:

      Whenever you forget to proof-read, hilarity ensues.

    • Berzee says:

      “just take your purchased cd-key and use that”

      Error: Steam Not Found.

    • Riotpoll says:

      @Drake Sigar; Will you be regularly playing FM2012 in 2027? I doubt it somewhat. If the game was one you’d want to replay you might have a point!

    • Nim says:

      @Berzee Anyone who has not secured their cd-keys following the news of Steam’s imminent demise kind of deserves what’s coming for them, no? Any more pendants?

    • Berzee says:

      Nim, the exe’s downloaded from Steam often require you to be logged into Steam in order to start them. If you are not logged into Steam, they do not say “please enter CD key”. They say “Error: Steam Not Found” and then you have to go play something else.

      Maybe it’s different for different games though, and we have just bought games with entirely different behaviors.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Anyone who has not secured their cd-keys following the news of Steam’s imminent demise…

      Ah, you were serious. (Let me laugh even harder, etc.)

      I think you have a fundamental misunderstand about how Steam works. For many games purchased on it, you do not have a “CD key” which can be used elsewhere.

    • Spider Jerusalem says:

      @ Berzee

      You missed the bit where he said put your purchased CD key into a pirated copy of the game.

    • Berzee says:

      I did miss that part, thanks. =)

      Now to find all these mysterious CD keys hidden where in Steam? o_O
      (I remember Far Cry 2 had one, but not a lot of others that I noticed)

  6. Fox89 says:

    Whilst I’m generally not a DRM fan, I don’t mind one-time activations. For the vast majority of players this kind of DRM falls into the category of ‘completely unnoticable’ to ‘minor inconvenience’, and if it has a noticeable effect on piracy then I don’t think SEGA can really be blamed for making the compromise.

    • thegooseking says:

      Yeah, but stopping piracy has no effect for a publisher unless that piracy is converted into sales, and as LionsPhil said above, that’s a big ‘if’.

    • Fox89 says:

      True, although I doubt this is the kind of decision taken without quite a bit of research behind it. I imagine they have some serious numbers of some kind from somewhere to make it a reasonable business decision!

    • Premium User Badge

      Jerricho says:

      Ask 2D-Boy and Cliffski what the numbers are on this sort of thing.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Bear in mind that, given upthread, Football Manager already previously used DRM. Comparisons to indie games that have been completely DRM-free therefore do not entirely apply.

  7. Mehbah says:

    And if a quarter of the people who usually buy the games avoid it because it has DRM, you’ll lose money. Good job.

    Pirates aren’t going to buy it anyway. Those who pirate in order to test games would buy it if they like it. Those who pirate without the intent of buying aren’t going to pay for this anyway, especially not when they get a worse product than when they simply pirate.

    “Real” pirates won’t buy it either way. Demo-pirates are less likely to buy it because it has DRM and will be harder to test. Normal customers will be less likely to buy it because it has DRM. You’re a bunch of effing idiots, Sega.

    Besides, only morons truly believe an amount worth mentioning of the money goes into the next game. It’ll all be use to line the publisher’s pockets.

    Oh, and it’s going to be pirated anyway, probably before the release. And a bunch of people who would have bought it will pirate it instead. Which will prompt the dumbfucks at Sega to go “see, piracy is horrible, we can now justify even worse DRM!”. Even though they brought it on themselves by screwing their legitimate customers.

    Amazing how these people can be so bad at pattern recognition.

    • Premium User Badge

      Yachmenev says:

      It´s just regular Steam activation. As a PC gamer today, you have to learn to live with it, and it´s DRM that actually adds value to the product.

    • jti says:

      DRM seems to be the worst kind of PR these days. When will they learn?

    • Xiyng says:

      @Yachmenev: Sorry, no. I’m a PC gamer and I don’t think I’m going to learn to live with Steam. And it definitely does NOT add value to the product unless you already want it.

    • cliffski says:

      “Amazing how these people can be so bad at pattern recognition.”

      It amazes me how everyone thinks that all those multi-millionaires and billionaires owning big games publishers are idiots with no business sense.
      I don’t support DRM, but I do support the fact that the people who look at download rates, patch-download rates, sales figrues and the bottom line probably have a good diea at whether introducing this DRM gains them money or not, given their product, sales,demographic and pricing.

      Few companies that get to that size got there by consistently making decisions that *cost* them profits.

    • Premium User Badge

      Yachmenev says:

      Xiyung: You´re in for a rough ride then, if you don´t accept Steam.

      And the alternative is not DRM free since publishers don´t accept that. It´s Steam or some other DRM scheme. I choose Steam.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Speaking of pattern recognition, it probably shouldn’t be amazing. People are capable of an astounding degree of arrogance when it comes to fields they’re ignorant of. For example:
      – Bankers are all idiots, why don’t they just print more money.
      – The Government are all idiots, why don’t they just reduce wasteful spending.
      – Microsoft are all idiots, why don’t they just cut out all the bloat.
      – Game developers are all idiots, why don’t they just optimize.
      – Artistés are all idiots, why don’t they just make a point which isn’t bleedingly obvious then actually explore it in some way beyond pointing it out then crossing their arms and claiming it “invites thought” or “inspires debate”.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rinox says:

      @ Cliffski

      While I agree with your post to some extent, I wouldn’t overestimate them either. For one, which businesses are succesful and which fail is dependent on a vast array of variables, quite a few of which are outside of any business control. Secondly, I’d hesitate to say that making profit equals an outstanding business vision.

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @Xiyng: Football Manager was actually the game which highlighted the (comparative) value of Steam to me. With FM08 I would regularly pitch up at a hotel somewhere and find that I’d forgotten to pack the disc. That’s a non-issue with the later Steam-activated versions.

    • Ergates_Antius says:

      Besides, only morons truly believe an amount worth mentioning of the money goes into the next game. It’ll all be use to line the publisher’s pockets

      And where, pray tell, does the money come from to make the next game? Might it, perhaps, be the publishers pockets?

    • Kaira- says:

      “As a PC gamer today, you have to learn to live with it”

      No.

    • Mehbah says:

      First off, I’m talking about DRM in general. I don’t mind Steam, but some people quite clearly do.

      @cliffski

      All while making enemies out of their fans. Terrific idea! I doubt that’s going to earn them more money in the long run than getting a lot of happy fans. Just look at how a relatively small group like CD Projekt Red gets fans by not taking a dump on their customers. No, I don’t need to be an expert on the field to see that:
      1. Legit customers get inferior products to pirates
      2. Pirates will just pirate the damn thing anyway, quite possible before the release date (and the consoles will probably have it ready to be pirated before the PC version, for that matter)
      3. The customers will loose goodwill towards the publishers and developers.
      Maybe I’m just not enough of a greedy dick, but even assuming they make a bit more money by having DRM, it’s not worth it. Better to have happy customers and happy publishers than annoyed customers and slightly happier publishers. Plus, happy customers and no DRM only leads to free, positive, marketing.

      @LionsPhil

      Yeah, lovely sarcasm you have there, but how about some actual arguments instead of logical fallacies? That games with DRM get cracked and that fans do not like DRM is easy to observe.

      @Ergates_Antius

      Very funny. Do you also think they put most, or even a decent percentage, of that money back into developing sequels? The way they’re spinning it is “if you suffer the DRM, a lot of pirates will also buy it and we’ll put that money back into making a far better sequel!” How likely is that? I strongly doubt the budget would be noticeably bigger than a hypothetical sequel to a hypothetical version of the game without DRM.

      Pirates pirate, regardless of DRM or format. Focus on making those who actually do buy it happy, and you’re probably going to get more sales from their satisfaction.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Do you also think they put most, or even a decent percentage, of that money back into developing sequels?

      I’m curious as to where else you think the money comes from.

    • rottenspiel says:

      LionsPhil, you obviously lack reading comprehension. What he’s saying is that even though profits might increase, the money invested in the sequel (if there even will be any – and I’m talking in general here; no need to point out the obvious about FM) isn’t necessarily directly proportional with the amount of profit generated. In other words, if a game will get 100$ funding for the sequel (if it hit its sales expectation) and it seems the game actually exceeded sales expectation and earned 50$ more, then it doesn’t mean those 50$ will go into the sequel, nor 10$ even. (inb4 obvious there are different costs etc involved)

    • Ergates_Antius says:

      It’s not a matter of reading comprehension, and there’s no need to be a dick.

      I don’t presume to know how much of the profits from a game will be put forwards to making the next one, or what constitutes a “decent” proportion. However, it’s likely to be more than none (and more than next-to-none too) as all the money for a sequel will come either from profits from previous games or borrowing from investers (which is more expensive that using profits).

      “if you suffer the DRM, a lot of pirates will also buy it and we’ll put that money back into making a far better sequel!” How likely is that?”

      To a degree – quite likely. As a general rule, games that sell well will have more invested in sequels as they’re a safer investment. So, if more people pay for the game, the budget for the sequal will, probably, be higher. Certainly not a 1:1 increase (i.e. 20% more sales != 20% more budget) but it’s likely the two will be linked (as it makes good business sense).

      Pirates pirate, regardless of DRM or format. Focus on making those who actually do buy it happy, and you’re probably going to get more sales from their satisfaction
      This, however, I agree with entirely. DRM is bad, because it doesn’t work to deter piracy and only affects legitmate paying customers.

    • Xiyng says:

      @Yachmenev: Oh, it is indeed a rough ride. Still don’t have Civ V or Shogun 2, even though I plan on getting them – eventually, when their prices are low enough. The same goes for the new Deus Ex, and will be the same for Rage and Skyrim. And I’m probably forgetting a few games here.

      Publishers accept what we pay them to accept, and I’m not going to pay them for DRM. Unless I’m absolutely forced to choose one bad choice, I don’t think I’m going to. If it means I’m going to miss some games or get to play them later, so be it. Games that have DRM just aren’t worth much to me, usually much less than 10€.

      @Llewyn: Good for you. I’m not trying to say you’re wrong if you like Steam, I just think that Steam’s not all good for everyone. In fact, I think Steam is a great service. I just despise the DRM part.

  8. UnravThreads says:

    Oh, look, forty pages of people rolling around on grass clutching their knees.

  9. Jockie says:

    I bet FM gets disproportionate amount piracy due to it’s yearly update nature. I know loads of people who usually buy their games, who will only buy FM once every 3-4 years, pirating it the rest of the time.

    • sneetch says:

      Really? You know “loads” of people who do that very same thing? How many is “loads”?

    • El_Emmental says:

      I know “loadsa” people who pirate FM (and I never played that game nor watched football), almost every “generic” guy who don’t play (other) videogames I know have a FM on their computer.

      Since they’re rarely playing, or playing something else, they often pirate it because they don’t see the point in buying the game each year.

      so “loadsa”.

    • V. Profane says:

      Not really a good excuse. There’s nothing to stop you from keeping on playing an older version just because a new one comes out. There are even fan made database updates if you want to play with the latest transfers etc.

  10. Premium User Badge

    Yachmenev says:

    I´m really suprised to see Jim Rossignol being this alarmed by Steam. What happened?

    • UnravThreads says:

      I reckon he’s alarmed not by Steam, but the reaction of the people in the discussion he linked to.

  11. Freud says:

    My copy of FM2011 has another kind of DRM that launches every time called Byteshield. It even flashes the logo on my screen to remind me of how unjust SI are.

  12. Dath says:

    It’ll be cracked within days of release anyway, I don’t see why SEGA even try? Many people I know would buy more games if it was less of a hassle. These days it’s easier to pirate than buy legit…

    • Baboonanza says:

      Bullshit. Buying games is easier that it ever has been.

      Pirates (‘parasites’ would actually be a better term) tend to invent these sorts of excuses to make them feel/look less bad about being cheap-asses.

    • rottenspiel says:

      Yes, and he said it’s easier to pirate than to buy and play, which is true. Your point makes no sense and doesn’t follow from his reply.

      Stay in school.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Saying things are true does not make them true. I guess you flunked out of school yourself?

      Buying a game on Steam is a handful of clicks, very few indeed if you have let it save your payment details. It then downloads and installs and patches and launches in likewise very few clicks.

      Since piracy also involves downloading (through BitTorrent most likely, thus dependent on people actually seeding), the only relative savings it can make are on the stages around that. Finding a torrent that 1) works 2) isn’t laden with malware 3) is patched up to date, which requires the cracks to have caught up is more work that just thwacking the game’s title into the Steam store. Installing it from that is more work than double-clicking it in a list.

      So it’s quite reasonable to say “but piracy is easier” is a bullshit excuse being used by whiny self-deluding thieves.

    • rottenspiel says:

      You’re missing the point, I already told you you lack reading comprehension. He said it’s easier to pirate than to buy a game. It didn’t refer only to FM2012, it was a general remark. So this isn’t only about Steam DRM, which isn’t that bad and has the added benefit of providing cheap games.

      Getting a good torrent is easy since bad ones get down voted and lose seeders quickly. After that it’s just mount image and crack and/or play.

      The patching part is a so-so issue. Most games have the patches cracked anyway, you aren’t forced to patch (which is also somewhat true with Steam), and it isn’t dependent on when you have purchased the game, i.e. you can download the initial cracked copy of the game and then patch as you want; you can’t do that with Steam.

      One day I couldn’t play Civ5 with the dlc because when I launched the game it refused to recognize them even though I had bought them. Did I have an issue with this game when I was playing the pirated copy? No.

      Lastly, no one said that because it’s easier to pirate then it’s okay to pirate. The initial assumption was that if you make it too much of a hassle to play a game then people might not bother with it, especially not buying it, though they might pirate it because it removes the hassle and might make it worth the time invested.

    • LionsPhil says:

      “These days it’s easier to pirate than buy legit…” is a general comment, yes. And Steam is a general store for computer games. Most games can be easily bought on Steam. Or GOG if they’re old, which isn’t quite as smooth but still at least dependable and still less work than dicking about with virtual drives*. As far as I can glean from comments, Origin and Direct2Drive and Green Man et. al. aren’t substantially harder work.

      It quite simply does not hold up to scrutiny because buying games legitimately is an easy, easy process these days.

      * And before the “you’re just mad because you don’t know how” heckle of the usual Internet peanut gallery, I use Daemon tools/Alcohol 52% avoid rummaging through boxes for my older games, thanks.

  13. Nimic says:

    Frankly my dear, I couldn’t give a damn.

    I’ll still buy it, and I’ll still play it for ~700+ hours.

  14. rocketman71 says:

    I miss the “good” times when I abhorred what Steam as DRM meant. Then came StarForce, Ubi, SecuROM and the rest of those idiots and made Steam good.

    • LionsPhil says:

      I don’t entirely miss them because I remember futilely yelling “if Valve get away with this, everyone else will follow suit and end up leapfrogging them” while the drooling hordes of the Internet went “y u mad bro?”.

      The one condolence is that at least Steam’s bitter pill is now sugar-coated with things like the overlay, screenshots, and cheap sales that mean the amount I’ve spent on games that depend on someone else’s server to play is still quite small.

  15. Khemm says:

    Fun fact – when I complained about Steam and stated I vastly prefer other DRMs to it (like Securom, Uniloc or GFWL), I was labelled as a troll. Now what, all those people there are trolls, too? Face it guys, hardcore Steam users are a small part of the PC crowd, but a very vocal one. Most people don’t see Steam as a “benefit”, rather as a restrictive DRM and third party spyware forced down their throats for no reason that it really is. No amount of useless nonsense Valve put on top of that will cover that fact.

    – someone stated that FM players aren’t gamers. Ridiculous. When it was announced Total War or Civ would require Steam, their respective fanbases were furious, too. Still are.

    – STOP calling Steam DRM “activation”. It has nothing to do with it. Other DRMs have a simple activation, yes – you have to go online for literally a second or two for the exe to be verified. Steam doesn’t work like that.

    Steam requires that you are online for several hours, and on a fast internet connection at that. Installing and updating the client, decrypting the files on the disc, installing the game, then downloading the missing data – it all takes time. Not to mention Steam DRM is the only DRM on the market which won’t let you INSTALL your game unless you’re connected. If your connection drops at any point, installation will stop.

    – offline mode is a joke which doesn’t work when it’s supposed to. People have also been reporting it has a hidden time limit imposed on it – once it expires, Steam will force you to connect again. Also, even in the offline mode, some data is still sent to Valve.

    This combined with the requirement to run the client in the background at all times even if you don’t give a crap about “awesum features like chatting or taking screenshots” doesn’t a “friendly, least intrusive” DRM make.

    • Xiyng says:

      I approve of this post. You summed up my feelings quite well.

    • LionsPhil says:

      -1, Troll.

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @Khemm: Well, at least there was one fact in your rant. Shame it went downhill after the first sentence.

    • Khemm says:

      @Llewyn
      What rant? What is wrong with you people, there was nothing aggressive in my post, I tried to explain the aspects in which Steam is seriously lacking.
      No wonder it hasn’t evolved since 2004, with such a fanatical fanbase… I mean, I can’t even choose install directory for my games, how can you find that acceptable?

    • Premium User Badge

      Joshua says:

      Khemm’s statements do not contradict, but rather, are in agreement with, my own findings.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Where software lives on your drive is implementation detail. If you’re still having to care about that in the 21st century, software has failed.

      Let’s have a quick stab at some of these because I do so love tilting at windmills:

      hardcore Steam users are a small part of the PC crowd

      Peak 3,783,872 users in the last 48 hours. That’s online and using it, not “signed up once to nab free Portal then never touched it again”. Anyone got a figure on the total size of the gaming PC crowd from a better source than someone’s arse? RPS journos?

      third party spyware

      Simply false. Steam’s community let-everyone-know-when-and-what-you’re-playing requires you to actually set up your profile. The hardware surveys are explicitly opt-in. Steam is substantially better than most CD-oriented DRM in that, unlike those, it does not leave itself active all the time as a hidden device driver. It does act as a regular, non-hidden Windows service on Vista/7, which I believe is to allow it to update games without tripping overeager UAC prompts on the former OS. At worst this is a vulnerability ready to act as a confused deputy and grant things administrator priviledges. StarForce and SafeDisc rather famously outdid this with a ring 0 driver that was happily handing out kernel priviledges to anyone who asked.

      Other DRMs have a simple activation, yes – you have to online for literally a second or two for the exe to be verified.

      No, not “verified”. “Locked to that machine, consuming one of your limited activations”. Steam’s is account-oriented, so I can play the games locked to that account on any of my machines, switching willy-nilly, all installed at once, and can continue so indefinately (i.e. until the company running the DRM servers shuts them down—which is also true of activations).

      If your connection drops at any point, installation will stop.

      Yes, I do so hate how Valve failed to work around that aspect of digital distribution. I demand that if my net connection goes down, Gabe personally drives to my house with a DVD with the Steam backup files for the game (from which it will install).

      Offline mode

      Look, your options are basically twofold, because no AAA publisher is going to go DRM-free, and physical-token-locked DRM (i.e. just a CD check) has died out as not being “strong” enough:
      – Machine-locked DRM
      – Account-locked DRM
      The latter is much preferable because you won’t one day go to install your game on your new machine and find you’re out of activations because the bloody things didn’t revoke properly, especially if your old machine blew up or you wiped the drive without carefully uninstalling everything with an active internet connection. You are complaining that Valve have drilled a hole in this such that you can “log in” offline and that you cannot then use this indefinately and effectively not have DRM. Despite reports on the Steam Forums that some users have firewalled off Steam and had it stay in offline mode for literally years. (And others for mere days. That it’s buggy is unfortunately correct, and Steam is in dire need of some heavy QA love in general.)

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @Khemm: There’s nothing aggressive, but there’s a lot of bullshit. I wouldn’t consider myself a Steam fanatic, but it is – of the alternatives I’ve encountered – my preferred form of DRM, given that DRM of some sort is inevitable on most titles. I’m fairly confident in saying I’m not a fanatic; after all, I don’t post comments praising Steam features which don’t exist, or exaggerating their benefits. However you do appear to be an anti-Steam fanatic.

      If you’d focused on genuine issues in your original comment – such as the install location – then I’d have been able to respect your opinion, even if I disagreed with it (for the record, I agree with you on that one). As it is, you just came across as a troll.

      Edit: @LionsPhil: Where something goes on a drive doesn’t concern me at all, which drive it goes on does to a small extent. As far as I’m aware it’s not possible to have Steam games installed in different locations.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Yes, multiple physical drives is a good point and you’re right, Steam does suck in not supporting that.
      (There are workarounds with NTFS junction points but they shouldn’t be necessary.)

    • Khemm says:

      @LionsPhil

      Dude, get yourself informed if you want to argue, please. These parts made me facepalm:

      “No, not “verified”. “Locked to that machine, consuming one of your limited activations”. Steam’s is account-oriented, so I can play the games locked to that account on any of my machines, switching willy-nilly, all installed at once, and can continue so indefinately (i.e. until the company running the DRM servers shuts them down—which is also true of activations).”

      When was the last time you bought such a game? In 2008? Almost every new release now does not care what computer you are on and has no limited activations (retail releases). Example: EA games. Dead Space 2 used a simple activation with no install limits. Even Securom, Tages, Uniloc. GFWL activation and other DRMs work like that now. Your claims are false.

      “Yes, I do so hate how Valve failed to work around that aspect of digital distribution. I demand that if my net connection goes down, Gabe personally drives to my house with a DVD with the Steam backup files for the game (from which it will install).”

      It’s blatantly obvious you never bought a Steamworks game retail. If you had bought one, you would know I am right. You have to be online 100% of the time even if you install from the dvd.
      If you’re not sure about something, don’t act like you know it for sure. With remarks like the one above, you’re just making yourself act like a troll.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Dead Space 2 used a simple activation with no install limits

      Read the “Online Disclaimer” section, chuckles, and eat those words about “lol be more informed”:

      GAME CAN BE PLAYED ON UP TO FIVE COMPUTERS AT THE SAME TIME; USERS CAN MANAGE WHICH COMPUTERS ARE AUTHORIZED OR DE-AUTHORIZED TO PLAY GAME.

      (It is also account-locked on EA’s end, as well as Steam if you buy it this way: worst of all worlds! One of the nice things about Steam as a store is it usually points out when other people’s shitty DRM is layered on top.)

      bought a Steamworks game retail

      So, wait. Your argument is “if I do this retardedly inconvenient thing to prove a point, it’s inconvenient”?

      I trust that you have yielded on all other points which you failed to address and accept that, for example, Steam is not spyware. Even if you won’t admit to it publically because you’re too busy mouthing off about how it’s eeeeevilllll and other DRM systems are all candy and flowers.

    • El_Emmental says:

      -1, troll :P

      seriously Khemm, on every news/topic about Steam, or even when someone mention Steam, you pull the same lies, you’re getting told -again- (often by a new member), proven wrong for 90% of your claims, yet you keep raging about Steam

      one day, you’ll realize you wasted your time :P

      edit:
      “It’s blatantly obvious you never bought a Steamworks game retail. If you had bought one, you would know I am right.”
      ha ha, and you think you can be taken seriously after saying that ? come on…

      “You have to be online 100% of the time even if you install from the dvd.
      If you’re not sure about something, don’t act like you know it for sure. With remarks like the one above, you’re just making yourself act like a troll.”
      It’s really impressive how you’re stuck in a mental lock :D

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @LionsPhil: Buying Steamworks games retail is hardly a stupid thing to do in many cases. Why pay Steam £30 for a game that Amazon will happily sell you for £15?

    • Khemm says:

      @El_Elemental
      I have yet to be proven wrong, buddy. PROVE you can install a Steamworks game offline. DO IT.

      “Lies” my fuzzy behind, I present FACTS, you people have no counter arguments and keep blabbing PR bullcrap because you like Steam.

    • Premium User Badge

      Malibu Stacey says:

      I have yet to be proven wrong, buddy. PROVE you can install a Steamworks game offline. DO IT.

      Certainly but can you first show me how you download pirate torrents of games offline first? Just so we can compare like for like you see =)

  16. Ysellian says:

    Phew it’s only Steam, when I read this title I was expecting something really bad.

  17. BaRRaKID says:

    The problem is that these guys (the ones complaining) are just making this whole DRM issue worse. SEGA finally chooses the right kind of DRM (the one that adds value to the game, and benefits the buyer) and people still complain about it, this sends them (SEGA) the message that it’s a no win situation, and that their players are just pedantic little bitches. This will just make SEGA not want to use Steam in the future, and use something worst instead.
    Besides, I’m betting that half the people complaining are the ones that would never buy the game in the first place. I remember that when I was in school that FM was the most pirated game and only a couple of people had original copies,so I’m guessing that it’s even worse now. SEGA and Sports Interactive deserve to be paid for all the work that they’ve done with this series (although I object having to buy a new full game every year for 50€)

    • Khemm says:

      There’s no such thing as a DRM which adds value to your game or rewards the buyer. Valve can sugarcoat it all they want, but they can’t “polish a turd”.
      Vast majority of people playing this game won’t ever “chat to their friends” or “take screenshots” or “fap to achievements” which are just unlocking a picture. For them, it’s just a bloatware they are forced to install, but don’t need or don’t want to use, because they have better things to do like playing an actual game.

    • Kaira- says:

      Adds value? Like what? “Can’t connect to Steam network” is now value? A third party standing between you and the game is added value? Let me laugh a bit harder.

    • iniudan says:

      @Khemm Sorry to tell you that but you can polish turd.

    • El_Emmental says:

      Value :

      a) Llewyn : “Football Manager was actually the game which highlighted the (comparative) value of Steam to me. With FM08 I would regularly pitch up at a hotel somewhere and find that I’d forgotten to pack the disc. That’s a non-issue with the later Steam-activated versions.”

      b) I own nearly 200 games on Steam (on different accounts, for my own reasons – like being able to co-op with friends/bro). I own more than 100 “retail” games too, some with the old big cardboard box, some with the DVD case.

      The retail copies are gathering dust in the cupboard, and I almost never took them with me whenever I go somewhere (univ, friends’ place or holidays) :
      – you need a 100% working DVD drive (if the protection doesn’t recognize the disc, you’re screwed – I have 4 games that I had to p!rate to actually play them).
      – you need to track down all the patches on various websites (and for some old games, it’s really a pain in the *), and you need to find and download Vista/7 fixes.
      – you need to carry the box, and if you’re not sure what games you’ll play, you end up with 4 or 5 games. Or you need to remove the disc, put it in a disc holder, then put it back in the box later (or you’ll forget to do that, and end up searching for it). Oh, if you forgot to write down the CD keys from the manual/on the box, you’re screwed.

      On the other side, with Steam :

      1) If where I go there is an Internet access, I can go there without minding about bringing all the boxes and patches/fixes (on a thumbstick/external HDD, if I’m not bringing my own computer), I just need to remember my logins.

      2) If where I go there is no Internet access and I don’t bring my own notebook (rare) :
      – first it’s very likely I have other things to do (meeting people, going outdoor),
      – second I can bring some Good Old Games (from gog.com obviously) or similar DRM-free indies (Humble Indie Bundles !) on a thumbstick (8 gb),

      – third if I _really_ need to play other games there (and I don’t have my own notebook), I can easily bring a p!rated copy on a thumbstick (who’s going to sue someone who actually bought the damn game ?).

      3) If where I go there is no Internet access and I brought my own notebook (gaming one), I just check if I downloaded all the games I needed, then I turn on the Offline mode (with “remember my password” checked), shutdown the computer and that’s it.
      => I did that for 3 years (before I could get a shared wireless access), 5 days a week, it worked perfectly* for all my games.
      * Of course, if a game is not working perfectly, I’ll just grab a p!rated copy (since I already paid with good money the legal copy).

      I don’t see a problem with buying FM 2012 on Steam, and keeping a p!rated copy (sometime a simple .exe is enough) if you didn’t planned an Internet outage.

      PS: If a gamer bought a legit copy, then downloaded a p!rated copy because he couldn’t play the legit copy, was sued and lost, please give me an url, some references. I want to see it with my own eyes.

  18. aircool says:

    I always pay for my games… it’s easier than waiting days for something to download that might not work.

    However, DRM is just pointless. It’s not going to force people to buy the game who usually grab a pirate copy, they’ll just wait for a crack then carry on as they usually do.

    I’d say that the amount of people put off by the DRM will be similar in both the buyers camp and the pirates camp.

  19. Shinan says:

    Man this sucks. I remember FM 2009 did this and I skipped it mostly because of the “Steam only” thing. Of course back then the idea was to trade in an old copy (for a euro or two) when the new one came out. Something you can’t do with steam games since they’re tied to your account.

    Of course I also kinda a bit pirated FM2010. Because since it had steam activation AND a disk check me and my brother used a shared copy. He installed it on Steam and I borrowed the disk. FM2012 will get a pass from me. Since 09 was the one I was supposed to buy every five years (but it turned into 2010 because of DRM) so I won’t have to worry until FM2015 and hope that DRM is a thing of the past by then.

    • LionsPhil says:

      No modern DRM system is safe for resale, since they all perform some kind of activation which locks the license to a machine or an account. In theory some of the machine-locking ones have extra capacity and/or can have activations refunded on uninstall but that’s rather buyer-beware territory since you’ll only find out if there’s an activation left when you go to install your second-hand purchase, or if you just paid for a coaster.

      (You will probably find the “non-transferrable” wording in the EULA you agreed to, from a legal, rather than technical, standpoint.)

  20. Gothnak says:

    When i was a kid i had to use codewheels, or red bits of plastic to identify shapes so i could play games. i used to think ‘oh well, it takes me X seconds to do this, but if it prevents piracy i guess it helps’.

    Nowadays all everyone does is moan. You don’t seem to care that you get a game that you can play for X hundred hours for 30 quid, and that once, yes once, you need to log on to steam to authenticate it.

    Jeez…

    If you don’t like it, go and watch the crap on tv, or pay 11 quid to see a film at a cinema for 2 hours.

    Or, get used to the fact that in the future you won’t be able to play ANY GAMES AT ALL without an internet connection, because that’s the only way they’ll stop a generation of people from pirating their games because they have grown up thinking it’s ok to steal anything online, because it doesn’t really exist.

    Either that, or Single Player games will cease to exist as Multiplayer games you have to be online anyway.

    Everyone moans about DRM, but i haven’t heard of a single solution to stop pirates playing single player games for free. And yes, i know this doesn’t stop it, but it ‘does’ make it a bit more difficult.

    • CMaster says:

      @Gothnahk

      DRM doesn’t make people buy the game instead of pirating it.
      DRM only actually effects the people who buy the game – the pirates just get the cracked version without DRM. The only thing DRM actually helps with is stopping a purchaser copying the DVD and passing it on to a friend, which is pretty much a dead form of piracy.

      “‘oh well, it takes me X seconds to do this, but if it prevents piracy i guess it helps” but it doesn’t prevent piracy, so they were effectively just wasting your time. (Actually, back then it probably did make a difference. These days we have the Internet though.)

      The reason you haven’t seen anyone suggesting a solution that stops pirates playing singleplayer games for free is because there isn’t one, other than making OnLive (and services like it) the only way to play the game. And even then, you’d better make sure everybody at OnLive is well paid and happy with their job and happy with the IP status quo. Otherwise the game code will be leaked to China and Russia faster than you can imagine.

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @CMaster: Disc copying* is only a dead form of piracy because of DRM.

      *Assuming we’re talking DVD rather than Bluray.

    • CMaster says:

      @Llewyn
      Yes, but even if it wasn’t it’s hardly the kind of piracy that concerns publishers. They’ve stopped nobody from getting access to the game with that, because the Internet provides. If you don’t have good enough net access yourself, somebody you know will.

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @CMaster: I disagree. I think it’s the form of piracy which publishers are most fundamentally averse to, as it would be the most prevalent form – and, in my opinion, the only one that would actually have a genuine impact on sales – if it were still possible.

    • CMaster says:

      Why? It’s not like people don’t still pass around DVDs of copied games. They do. Actually, these days they, pass around entire hard drives full of copied games. It’s just that now, they start out with a cracked version off the net, rather than somebody at the school/workplace/whatever having had to originally buy the game.

    • Gothnak says:

      Well, that’s the thing see, the only way to really make your game anti-piracy is to make it multiplayer only, so you have to be online to play it. WoW does this, COD & Battlefield Multiplayer for example. Diablo 3 is doing this and obviously everyone has exploded at them too.. ‘But i want to play it single player not online!’.

      The thing is, i know lots of people that pirate games. If they couldn’t pirate ANY games, would they buy some, yes.. I have also known people that won’t buy games that have DRM in them. As yet however, i haven’t met anyone who won’t buy a game because it is on Steam. In fact i DO know people that won’t buy a game because they can’t buy it online.

      I think we are getting to a stage where you will need to be online for all games, and Steam is part of that. Yes it’s a bit irritating, but it will become the norm and people will forget it was such a problem. We won’t have physical media in the future anyway, so the only way you can buy stuff is online, so if you don’t have an internet connection, you don’t get to play games i’m afraid.

    • LionsPhil says:

      As yet however, i haven’t met anyone who won’t buy a game because it is on Steam.

      Hello! My resolve lasted until it became the lesser evil (i.e. any kind of wallet-voting was long since irrelevant) and the Orange Box was stupidly, stupidly cheap last Christmas (i.e. total potential financial impact if Steam crapped out and I “lost” my games was low).

      Also I’m going to speculate that Khemm is not only still such a person, but probably won’t even install Steam for demos.

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      As I’ve said in the past, I refuse to buy a game that’s locked to an account for full price. It’s a rental with no guarantees of future availability, and I will treat it as such when assessing the price.

      I was going to preorder a retail copy of FM 2012 before learning that it would just be a useless hunk of plastic once bound to your Steam account. Now I’ll wait until I can get a cheap key from a gray market site, or otherwise acquire a copy for 10-15 euro. And I’ll only pay *that* much because I really want the game.

      I try not to reward stupidity. And believing that DRM will vastly increase sales is genuinely stupid; when has Steam DRM not been cracked within the day?

    • Kandon Arc says:

      @Gothnak: “I think we are getting to a stage where you will need to be online for all games, and Steam is part of that. Yes it’s a bit irritating, but it will become the norm and people will forget it was such a problem. We won’t have physical media in the future anyway, so the only way you can buy stuff is online, so if you don’t have an internet connection, you don’t get to play games i’m afraid.”

      I don’t think this is wrong per se, but I think it’s a case where the ambition of publishers/developers is outpacing the reality on the ground, i.e. that 99% stable broadband is still not something to be taken for granted even in the 1st world. I also think it’s a dumb strategy by AAA publishers as it will seriously damage their market penetration in the BRIC nations, which will be someday be bigger than the US/EU markets. If gamers aren’t able to play AAA titles there due to poor infrastructure, they’ll switch to home grown devs and publishers instead.

      So yeah, when everyone has access to 99% stable broadband, I’ll accept that argument. Until then it’s naive at best, discriminatory at worst.

    • Gothnak says:

      Quite often Games Companies make games for platforms that will only initially have a few users, e.g. the next Xbox or whatever. If you create the platform more people will join it. The more games that require people to be online, the more standard it will become.

    • Kandon Arc says:

      @Gothnak: yes it may very well become standard in games, but unless Ubisoft, Blizzard etc. go around building broadband infrastructure I don’t see what that will accomplish except annoy gamers who can’t play always online games.

      Buying a new console is in the price range of most gamers. Laying fibre optic cables isn’t.

    • rottenspiel says:

      You’re an idiot. Back when I was a kid I couldn’t have bought any video games because in my country they were 25% of the minimum salary each, if not more. Now I buy all my games because I can earn my own money and they are cheaper.

      Also, it’s entirely possible that if it becomes too much of a hassle then I won’t bother with games at all (which is obviously not true since not everyone will do stupid things).

      And I’m glad you agree with me in my initial assessment of you, “Everyone moans about DRM, but i haven’t heard of a single solution to stop pirates playing single player games for free. And yes, i know this doesn’t stop it, but it ‘does’ make it a bit more difficult.” = Yeah I know it won’t do shit but let’s do it anyway because I’m pissed about it.

  21. hello_mr.Trout says:

    contentious opinion ahead – beware:

    but anyway i think piracy is neat! – it’s a way to consume forms of media product that you wouldn’t otherwise have experienced / or had access to (bar payment) – and otherwise, probably wouldn’t have interacted with in any instance. i am surprised that people are so against sharing their work – isn’t it the aim of quality media to disseminate itself to the most people? and the more people that are exposed to it, the more brand recognition & goodwill will go towards companies, and potentially see more legitimate sales and revenue? instead of seeing piracy as something akin to physical theft, why can’t it be utilised as a new form of exposure?

    • LionsPhil says:

      Freetard detected.

      isn’t it the aim of quality media to disseminate itself to the most people?

      1) Media does not disseminate itself. It is disseminated by people.
      2) No. It’s at least as much to pay the rent of the people who made it, so that they can make more of it.

    • Gothnak says:

      Indeed, it’s not a piece of non-profit art we are making, or a funny video on youtube. It’s a way i pay my bills and have a house over my head. The only reason games, films and music are seen as ok to steal are because they aren’t physical things. If to get a free game you had to go into a store and steal it from the shelf, very very few people would do it, even if there was no security.

      Stealing physical items bad, stealing digital items good.

    • El_Emmental says:

      I thought everyone understood that as long as you dedicate a budget to your gaming hobby and actually pay for most of your games, it was okay to p!rate a game or two when you want to try them ?

      nowadays I no longer need to p!rate anything (more money, Steam sales, enormous backlog), but I don’t see piracy as “evil”, it’s can co-exists with the rest of the video game industry.

      Trying to eradicate piracy is like trying to eradicate sun in the desert, rain in the tropical forest, it doesn’t make sense at all.

    • LionsPhil says:

      No, everyone does not share your obnoxious self-delusion that if you pay for 80% of things, you can steal the remainder. Nor that piracy is a physical and useful natural phenomina.

    • El_Emmental says:

      “stealing” oh come on, you’re still on the “copying is stealing” myth ?

      Seriously, when a household has 30 coins to spend on entertainment, why they should stop when they hit the 30 coins limit, if they could enjoy 50 coins worth of entertainment WITHOUT costing a single dime for the rightsholders/publishers/vendors ?

      It’s like when I pay my tax or the public library fee : I won’t slap the kids getting more books per months than me (because they come back to the library more often), like I won’t despise people getting more from the welfare state than me. We all pay our share, the system is working.

      And I can’t create money out of thin air, my budget for entertainment didn’t changed, I’m still dedicating the vast majority of my entertainment budget on video games (including computers parts required to fully enjoy recent games), it changes nothing to the equation if I p!rate a game I wouldn’t have bought in the first place, _because_ I won’t get debts to please the Activision shareholders, I won’t get a credit to buy every single game I want to try.

      Shareholders and rightsholder are crying over piracy, but the entertainment industry is making more money than ever before, people didn’t stopped buying, they just consume MORE.

      I’ll stop there because I highly doubt you can imagine living in a world/economy of abundance, you only see a world of scarcity (supply/demand and nothing else).

    • LionsPhil says:

      It is childish to think that you are entitled to something just because you want it.

      Seriously, when a household has 30 coins to spend on entertainment, why they should stop when they hit the 30 coins limit, if they could enjoy 50 coins worth of entertainment WITHOUT costing a single dime for the rightsholders/publishers/vendors?

      Piracy is not a victimless crime, because what you have deprived them of there is opportunity to sell it to you later. The correct answer is to buy that remaining 20 coins’ worth next time, or hold off for sales when you can get that 50 coins’ worth for the 30 you have.

    • El_Emmental says:

      “It is childish to think that you are entitled to something just because you want it.”
      Who said one is entitled to “something” ?

      This is about tolerance, dealing with it, not spending tons of money and screwing with legit customers with crappy DRM system.

      Also, how spending the vast majority of your entertainment budget in an industry is nothing ?

      I’m feeling like you would ban gleaning ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleaning ), since the people gleaning in the fields are not going to buy that food, forgetting they wouldn’t buy that food anyway because they don’t have the budget for that.

      Now you say “sell it later”, ok.

      * Without any piracy (= not reality) :

      – Month 1 : spent 30 coins on video games, industry got 30 coins, consumed 30 coins worth of video games.

      – Month 2 : spent 30 coins on video games, industry got 30 coins, consumed 30 coins worth of video games.

      * With piracy (= reality) :
      – Month 1 : spent 30 coins on video games, industry got 30 coins, consumed 50 coins worth of video games.

      – Month 2 : spent 30 coins on video games, industry got 30 coins, consumed 50 coins worth of video games.

      Industry is getting the same amount of money. There is no additional cost for the industry (piracy cost are supported by users-through-ISP-fees and hosting services).

      If I can’t get the additional 20 coins worth of video games through piracy, AND if I really need to get that entertainment (highly improbable since piracy is no longer “ok” if you really enjoyed/played a game a lot), I’ll save 20 coins to pay for it, or wait for sales right ?
      => That’s 20 coins less for the industry.

      (note: as I said in my previous post, in my case I no longer require piracy since I’m waiting for sales, but it doesn’t change the fact the industry is still not getting these 20 coins)

      There is a fixed budget, I can’t get more “coins” to spend, the only elements changing will be :
      – less video game consumed (= less people playing games, trying games, talking about games)
      – a delay in my video game consumption

      Don’t get me wrong, one has to pay for the games he really wants/he likes, I’m talking about piracy for the few games you would never pay the big fat prices but still would like to discover.

      And if you like it, PAY FOR IT OMG SUDDENLY MORE MONEY THANKS TO PIRACY – it actually happened to me, my friends, some e-friends, family members and colleagues : if you like the game, pay for it and do the word-of-mouth.

      When you walk down the street, if there’s a musician playing, and if you think (s)he’s playing well and/or you stay a few minutes to listen, you pay a sum according to your budget and how you value that performance.

      I bought all Humble Indie Bundles, and paid something like $40 (30 to devs, 10 to EFF/Humble) because it was what I could afford at that time combined with how much I valued the Bundle.

      I don’t see how “ethical” (if you like it, pay for it) piracy, when we can’t get a refund if a game is not entertaining (I paid for a service, entertainment, and I’m not getting entertainment !), when we can’t sell our licenses to someone else, can not be a tolerable part of the video game industry.

    • LionsPhil says:

      But the problem with that metaphor is the notion that there is a constant stream of games to buy, which I wouldn’t say is close to reality.

      Not pirating:
      Month 1: 30c budget; 50c of games released => industry gets 30c.
      Month 2: 30c budget; 10c of games released => industry gets 30c, (new 10c + leftover 20c).

      Pirating anything beyond means:
      Month 1: 30c budget; 50c of games released => industry gets 30c, you pirate the remaining 20c.
      Month 2: 30c budget; 10c of games released => industry gets 10c.

      Now, if you’re talking about legitimising all your pirated games by buying them later, you’re effectively getting the depreciation value for nothing (if it even dropped in price) but in terms of doing actual concrete damage it’s a bit harder to take anything but a rather weak and nebulous ethical objection. Buying things later might affect business decisions like if to scrap the development studio, but as long as you still prioritise to buy your most-wanted first you give the same feedback if you wait for the rest or not.

      Edit: (which I think is in reponse to something you edited), I don’t think piracy-to-try-in-lieu-of-a-demo is really related, outside of hilarious “oh, I played the whole thing and didn’t like it so didn’t pay” cases.

      (As a final edit footnote, I notice I slipped that example into budget. So say 60/10 or something and leave a running deficit. If the average rate isn’t sustainable then those least-desired games are just going to have to keep being put off and put off and never played.)

  22. Pijama says:

    It’s funny. Centers of political and economic science from universities around the world are promoting conferences in pretty much every semester regarding digital property (I have participated in two myself during my time as an econ student)…

    …But the people that SHOULD have learned something by now (read: publishers) still keep banging their heads on wall. Why bother?

  23. Unaco says:

    For myself, Steam is the good form of DRM (yes, it can and does exist). See the Hoopla/Steam forum thread for an explanation if you want.

  24. Javier-de-Ass says:

    blows my mind how many games on pc are behind subscription now thanks to steam. how is there not an alternative given to this garbage service? shitty publishers.

    • Unaco says:

      ‘behind subscription’? What does this mean? Steam has no subscription.

    • Javier-de-Ass says:

      steam is a subscription service

    • Premium User Badge

      Harlander says:

      Er, you what?

    • StingingVelvet says:

      @ Unaco

      This is what drives some of us nuts, you don’t even know what Steam is doing and yet you support it. You do not buy games on Steam, you add them to your subscription. Valve can suspend or cancel your subscription at any time.

    • Unaco says:

      It is? That’s news to me… and every other STEAM user, everyone who’s ever heard of STEAM… In fact, probably news to every one in the world apart from you Javier. Where, pray tell, did you learn of this remarkable thing. And why hasn’t STEAM being telling it’s users? How much do we all owe them?

      Javier… STEAM is free. There is no subscription required. Either you’re confused about STEAM, confused about the meaning of subscription, or you’re deliberately trying to spread misinformation.

    • Unaco says:

      Yes, STEAM COULD cancel my subscription at any time. But they aren’t going to.

    • Kaira- says:

      Refer to Steam’s Subscriber agreement:

      You become a subscriber of Steam (“Subscriber“) by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration. Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content (“Subscriptions“) available to Subscribers. Conclusion of this contract between Valve and you takes place as soon as you access the Steam service after accepting this Agreement.

      And this is just the first paragraph.

      Edit:

      “they aren’t going to”
      You seem really sure about that. Well, people see what they want to see.

    • Premium User Badge

      Harlander says:

      The confusion arose from “subscription” generally being used, in vernacular, to refer to something with a recurring fee.

    • Myros says:

      What bothers me most is that while Steam in its current form and its current owners is pretty much benign there is no guarantee it will stay that way.

      If anything ever did happen that changed or (gulp) closed Steam I think there would be a ‘great disturbance in the force’.

      IMO with more and more games using and even requiring Steam it concentrates ‘power’ to much and only increases the potential of a terrible fail state – wether just personal or massive. I use and enjoy steam like millions of others but there is a small niggling worry that continues to bother me.

    • El_Emmental says:

      Retail copies are the same thing, a publisher can revoke your EULA for any reason.

      The only difference is the way the publisher will do that : through Steam, through an hidden/automatic or normal update, by banging on the door.

      Steam won’t revoke your license without a good reason, otherwise an enormous amount of rage (also called “poo-storm”) will appear on the forum, on the Steam Support platform, on Valve line, on every Valve booth at conferences/public events, and people will move from Steam to other digital platforms (they exist !). If Steam betrays its users, trust will be lost and they’ll lose millions of users and dollars.

      And if Steam would disappear tomorrow, what do you think people will do ? They’ll p!rate the games they previously owned (if the traditional publisher don’t recover the license list and transfer the digital distribution service to a competitor).

      => Do you really think a publisher will take the risk of suing a customer who paid his game 50 bucks and had to “sail the sea” to get his game working again ?

      There’s no need to panic.

  25. StingingVelvet says:

    I miss the days when forcing you to ask a publisher to play your purchased game was a bad thing. When having to launch a social client to play singleplayer was a bad thing. Remember those days, when Steam launched? Improvements to the client itself don’t change those fundamental issues… well, they don’t for me anyway.

    If you act like Steam authentication is wrong or annoying people jump your shit immediately for being overly sensitive or weird. I’m not either, I just don’t like tying my game to an account completely under publisher control and being at the mercy of publishers for future playthroughs. Call me crazy I guess.

    All that said I don’t boycott Steam games or any DRM system for that matter, because it’s utterly useless on PC. If a publisher or DRM program ever tells me I can’t play a game then I start up my torrent program and get my legally purchased copy from another source. Easy-peasy. It’s not that simple with console games, which is why I think XBLA and PSN games are much more of a DRM concern than anything on PC, outside of streamed content.

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      “Owning games” is not contemporary. Get with the times, man!

    • StingingVelvet says:

      @ Till

      The times are quickly leaving me behind I’m afraid. I suspect it won’t be too long before everything goes streaming or partial streaming and I run out of games to buy. I will NOT support that.

  26. mejoff says:

    So four times as many people pirate as buy?
    Ok, DRM isn’t working then.

    (Maybe a quarter or more of the pirates would buy if pirating weren’t the only way to avoid the DRM?)

    • StingingVelvet says:

      That really is the best part… “DRM is useless for stopping piracy so we have to use DRM to stop piracy!”

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      That’s a conclusion as erroneous as publishers thinking that more pirates will buy copies if the DRM is better. The relevant comparison would be what proportion of the existing purchasers would have obtained the game free if they could.

      Of course, that might also prove that DRM isn’t working, but at least let’s not get to that point by logical fallacy.

  27. Unaco says:

    Reply fail

    • StingingVelvet says:

      Dude, just because you don’t pay a monthly fee does not mean it is not a service you are subscribed to. I really suggest you read the Steam Terms of Service.

  28. Sorbicol says:

    clearly you missed the vitirol directed at Firaxis when they decided Civ V would ship with steamworks…

    • Premium User Badge

      Yachmenev says:

      It was much worse when they shipped Bioshock 2 with Games for Windows Live and Securom. If you guys prefers such solutions instead of Steam, then I really hope that SEGA doesn´t listen to you.

  29. Sabre_Justice says:

    Sega is has idiotic management and a nonexistent PR department, news at 11.

  30. Pinky09 says:

    Ok so, a smart gaming company would say: “If we focus our efforts and most of our budget into making a better, bigger, and more user friendly game, our sales would double”:

    Sega says: “If we waste our money on useless DRM methods that will be cracked within the day of the game’s release, alienate our Paying costumers, annoy users, and drive paying costumers into Piracyland, then that will somehow double our sales.”

    So instead of trying to please your existing costumers with a great game, and having those costumers attract more costumers through word of mouth (the most powerful marketing tool), you guys alienate your current clients to try and get clients who wouldn’t pay for the game in the first place (for whatever reason)? you guy are retarded

  31. Jimbo says:

    They should make one of these games like they used to be, or include a mega-simple mode or something. Basically I want to just buy Julian Joachim and then watch my team win, not piss about hiring deputy throw-in coaches etc.

    • V. Profane says:

      You can get your Ass Man (tee hee!) to do a lot of stuff for you now, and there are wizards for creating formations etc.

  32. sinister agent says:

    Lotta double standards in these comments. “Oh, people are complaining about DRM? I hate DRM! But I like Steam, so these people are clearly idiots.”

    Tch.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Hurr-durr oversimplying any argument into “yea” or “nay” will make both sides look retarded.

      Steam is a compromise on the lesser evil. The “good” option isn’t an option because major titles simply do not release DRM-free, and only some of them ever patch that way. If you have some cunning plan to make DRM-free releases common outside of indie games, please do share, that we may all rise up and enact it to revel in a glorious future where we can play games we bought without any horrid restrictive baggage.

      Or you could go back to being a condescending fuckwit on the Internet if that’s easier.

    • sinister agent says:

      Except that it’s perfectly legitimate for people to not want to have to use steam. The people who complain about drm but are in here complaining about people unhappy with having to use steam are doing just what I said, and your lousy attitude and transparent attempt to completely rewrite what I actually said won’t change that.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Let me break this down into little statements for you:
      You can hate DRM but hate Steam least.
      You can hate Steam but still object to nonsense claims such as it being spyware.
      You can hate Steam but still consider a game moving from other DRM to it being a positive move, and argue this with the people who do not.

    • Unaco says:

      I don’t hate DRM. I don’t like BAD DRM… DRM that asks something of the legit customer, but gives them nothing back in return that they wouldn’t get from the game without DRM. Something like an always online requirement – it asks the legit user to be online constantly while playing, but gives them nothing more than the game. Without the DRM the game would be no different. In these cases, the pirated version is usually a better product than the legit version… it’s the same game, same experience, but without the restriction. BAD DRM!

      However, I have nothing against DRM in general, and actually think that GOOD DRM can be… well, good. And yes, that’s right, I think GOOD DRM can exist. This would be DRM that asks something from the legit user, but also offers something to them in return, above and beyond the game… something as an incentive, so that the legit product is a better product than the pirated one. That is, the pirated product is the game, with no restrictions, but no extras… the legit product is the game, with some restrictions or requirements, but with extra features.

      This would be something like SpaceChem, and the leaderboards and community features. Yes, the game can be pirated, and it can be played (I think, I don’t know this for certain, I’m just using some of SpaceChem’s features as an example), or the game can be purchased, and can be played while connected to the Zachtronic servers or through Steam etc. When you do this, you get access to ResearchNet, you get the leaderboards for each level, comparisons between yourself and your Steam friends, the ability to upload solutions. You don’t get these things with the pirated version. For me, the legitimate version is a better product than the pirated version.

      Like I say… for me, Steam is the GOOD form of DRM. Things like screenshots, chat, groups, autoupdating, friends and community, cloud services etc. They all contribute to making the the legitimate, Steam bought product better than the pirated product.

      I think it’s up to Developers and Publishers to come up with the GOOD DRM solutions, and avoid the BAD DRM. But not all DRM is bad. Some is good.

    • sinister agent says:

      @LionsPhil

      You’re still ignoring the fact that there are people who aren’t making any of the claims you are, and are merely looking down on people who are complaining about steam, while they themselves criticise other forms of DRM.

      Yes, you can prefer steam to other forms of DRM. That doesn’t mean you have any right to badmouth people who don’t want steam because it’s still DRM. Some people are doing exactly that.

      And incidentally, your poor attitude is still shining through. You have no leg to stand on when accusing anyone else of being condescending, as you’re being outright juvenile.

    • El_Emmental says:

      (@sinister agent btw)

      Lotta double standards in that comment. “Oh, people are complaining about ignorance? I hate ignorance! But I like refusing to listen to true facts, so these people are clearly idiots.”

      Tch.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Oh well. I don’t think I can use words small enough to make the point any clearer for you.

      I suppose it should have been a warning sign when someone who blanket-applies accusations of double-standards while strawmanning their argument to buggery then turns around and accuses someone else of having poor attitude.

    • sinister agent says:

      Sigh.

      I suppose it should have been a warning sign when someone who blanket-applies accusations of double-standards

      I did not say EVERYONE, and I explicitly stated that my remarks were only aimed at people taking a specific stance. I did not apply any blankets. It was you who attempted to stretch what I said to cover other people. Whatever went on in your head is down to you, not what I said.

      while strawmanning their argument to buggery then turns around and accuses someone else of having poor attitude.

      You are the one who was entirely ignoring what I said and attempting to rewrite what I was saying. And you continue to do so, and to make childish, patronising remarks while accusing me of doing that, when I’ve done nothing of the sort. Hypocrite.

      @El_Emmental

      Kindly point out which “true facts” I’ve ignored. Preferably relevant ones. Decrying steam as spyware is arguably silly, but it’s also irrelevant. People can and do object in principle to having steam forced on them without calling it spyware, and making out that they’re fools to do so just because you (proverbial ‘you’) like steam is wrong.

      Unaco’s stance is fair enough and obviously not the one I was talking about, as I specified the people who are dead set against DRM and he’s made it clear that he’s not. Perfectly legitimate stance, so I’ve not ignored what he’s said; it simply doesn’t affect my comment as it wasn’t directed at him.

  33. Nameless1 says:

    One time activation is fine for me, I don’t see the problem.

  34. skocznymroczny says:

    Whoa. Why do I have to install another application which forces me to keep it running all the time? I use XFire for my autopatching, autolaunching, talking to friends ingame and video/screenshot upload, I don’t need another application for that.

    Saying that Steam is good because UbiDRM is worse is retarded. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. That’s like saying paying 15$ for a map is great because they could price it at $30 instead. Or even 60$, we are so lucky to pay only 15$!!!

    I am a PC gamer, but I don’t buy into hypes, I don’t preorder games based on fake reviews. I don’t use Steam and all games in my collections are either no-DRM or CD-check only. Steam servers can go down, internet connection may go down, I can reformat my hard drive, Valve may go out of business and all my games are still accessible and fully playable.

    Just waiting until someone’s 500 game Steam account gets banned due to some mistake. Oh wait, that already happened multiple times.

    • El_Emmental says:

      “I don’t use Steam and all games in my collections are either no-DRM or CD-check only.”

      You stopped buying games in 2003 ?

      (or you’re just buying the very few indies without DRM, if it’s the case, congratz)

    • skocznymroczny says:

      I bought Singularity, bought Witcher 2 (after they dropped the online activation, that is two days after release), I have X3 Terran conflict, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, risen. from newer games, I have some older games but I guess they don’t count.

      I have already skipped Deus Ex : HR, Serious Sam HD, Risen 2 because of their Steam-only politics

    • El_Emmental says:

      hm you also count games wot got their DRM removed for the rerelease (Mass Effect 1 had an online SecuROM activation), but I admit I missed some of them.

      I’m surprised ME2 is only disk-check, that’s a pretty good news :D

      (even if I burned money on 4 games who couldn’t work because of faulty SecuROM disk check… I hope they fixed that for ME2)

      For my defense (I’m in total good faith :P), I would say X3/Risen are more “niche” than “mainstream” – still you got a point, there is recent games without DRM (hopefully !), but sadly you missed a few good games in the process

    • skocznymroczny says:

      I wouldn’t say no DRM, most of them have a CD check. Also, I had no idea what X3 was, I just saw it cheap in the store and bought it :)

      yes, I do buy games that dropped activations later, because usually they don’t have activations when I buy them. I don’t know about Mass Effect 1, I’ve got it some time after release and it has only a cd check. Of course ME2 has all this Cerberus crap, but I don’t bother with it (oh great, I can unlock imba weapons to make singleplayer even more faceroll)

    • Premium User Badge

      Malibu Stacey says:

      Whoa. Why do I have to install another application which forces me to keep it running all the time? I use XFire for my autopatching, autolaunching, talking to friends ingame and video/screenshot upload, I don’t need another application for that.

      Irony overload++

    • El_Emmental says:

      “Just waiting until someone’s 500 game Steam account gets banned due to some mistake. Oh wait, that already happened multiple times.”

      missed that part (or it’s an edit, dunno)

      I WANT references/url proving me someone lost more than 100 games on Steam. And did not deserved it (see below for details).

      VAC ban =/= Steam account disabling/deleting

      Thousands of people got VAC banned (for using cheats), true. It’s only preventing you from playing on VAC protected servers for ONE game engine (example: MW2 VAC bans don’t work on BlackOps).

      If your Steam account is suspended/disabled, you can get it back if you prove you were in good faith (= no stolen credit card, no VPN used to get much lower prices by pretending you’re from Russia, no Steam client crack, and (most often) your account wasn’t hacked so they don’t need to disable it to protect your account from hijacking anymore).

      Recently, thousands of people got their account disabled for few hours (most for 1 day), for registering the leaked Dirt 3 keys. All users who contacted Steam Support (after learning/understanding these keys weren’t legit) weren’t disabled. Other accounts were disabled for a short period (during the verification process).

      The only cases of Steam account being deleted AND remaining deleted (after contacting Steam Support) are extremely rare (haven’t seen one) AND are always motivated : credit card/payment (it includes proxy/VPN, funds blocking) fraud, reported active phishing (pretty frequent, even by “normal” users).

      If there is 1 single case of abusive Steam account deletion, the user would have sued Steam, made a website to protest against that abusive deletion, video game news websites would have talked about that.

      If you have 1 single example of such case, I would gladly see it (because if the deletion is really abusive, as a Steam user it’s extremely important (for me, and for other Steam users) to fight such abusive behavior from Steam immediately).

    • skocznymroczny says:

      http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ahboe/my_steam_account_with_nearly_every_game_in_the/
      http://steamunpowered.eu/forums/steam/a-warning-to-all-pcmac-gamers-that-rely-on-steam/

      this site above has more examples of these. Usually it goes like this – you have a problem with PayPal or something, they suspect a fraud and block your ENTIRE account and don’t respond to support tickets. The only thing you can do is to beg Paypal to do something about it.

  35. ashereize says:

    “Get over it Grandpa, we’ll all play FM while you sit in the corner and sulk.” /troll

    To be honest, I only use steam to purchase online-coop games. So an internet connection is needed anyway or I can’t play with my friends. For organising times to play these games, steam also comes in handy.

  36. BobsLawnService says:

    My internet account was capped last week and I haven’t been able to play any of my Steam games because it is insisting on updating the client before allowing me to play in offline mode so, yeah, fuck Steam.

    • V. Profane says:

      More like fuck your ISP.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Fuck both. Steam really should handle unpredictable drops in connectivity (i.e. you cannot brace for Offline Mode first) better.

    • El_Emmental says:

      I agree Steam could do something for users with shitty ISP limiting your bandwidth usage. So far the only thing you can do is activating the Offline mode before you run out of Internetz :/

    • BobsLawnService says:

      Capped internet is just a part of life around here so short oif immigrating I just have to deal with it. Steam locking you out of the games you’Ve paid for for no reason on the otherhand just sucks. Unfortunately if you want to game these days you just have to suck it up.(Except for game available on GOG God bless their kind hearts. If a classic game is available on both platforms GOG always get my dollar.

    • aerozol says:

      Yup, not all countries have ISP’s that offer cheap cap.
      I play cracked versions from friends, even if I’ve bought a game on Steam, because a 10gig game is either $30 to download, or free off their HD.

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @LionsPhil: I’m never quite sure what’s normal behaviour for Steam’s offline mode, because it seems to behave differently for everyone. However I never need to ‘brace’ for offline mode – if it’s unable to connect it prompts me to start in offline mode.

  37. MythArcana says:

    Strict DRM, especially the online authentication variety, only bolsters the ideals of piracy and advocates absolutely nothing sensible. If these companies wish to tether their product with online verification, especially per session, then they can watch their revenues shrink and stop blaming piracy for their half-baked decisions. You get more flies with sugar than shit…I wish they realized this fact.

  38. Punizher says:

    FM same game with new team updates, SEGA should be ashame the way they trolled their customers with FML. pathetic !

  39. GeneralSalad says:

    Steam, while not the best form of DRM (i.e. none) is an acceptable form for me.

    As I live in australia, I pay double what most of you pay for games so I used to just pirate anything I wanted rather than pay and feel like I had been taken advantage of. With steam however, the sales they have make it worth it (and easier) to just buy the game. I still do not buy games that are not on sale though as I do not wish to pay 80 – 110$ for one game.

    So long story short : Steams sales have made a paying customer out of me and I have purchased many of the games that I had previously pirated as well.

  40. Premium User Badge

    Yachmenev says:

    It is a bit strange that people seem to think that all DRM schemes are the same, and if you accept Steam then you should accept all other DRM systems, like always online DRM, limited activations, etc, or you have double standards.

    That is really just dumb.

  41. Premium User Badge

    Malibu Stacey says:

    I like the part where people complain about one time internet activation and in the same breath champion downloading gigabytes of data from pirate torrents on an internet site.

    Hypocrisy: Gamer Edition (includes free tinfoil TF2 hat when purchased through Steam).

    • Unaco says:

      This is comment of the day. Hell, comment of the week. It should probably get a mention in the Sunday Papers.