Not Cardboard Children: Quinns & Not Quinns

By Kieron Gillen on October 2nd, 2011 at 3:33 pm.

There is nothing more sinister than men who play cardgames in bed. Nothing.
As Rab mentioned between Manifestoing last time, he’s away on holiday at the mo. Now, I could have done a post about my attempt to paint and assemble 70-odd Mantic Elves via industrial dipping techniques, except that’d i) take away time which I’d rather use to paint and assemble the 70-odd elves and ii) it’s a lot of work, and I’m retired, don’t you know. Instead, let’s the board-game coverage a-coverage-ing by linking to the latest Quinns & Paul’s Shut Up And Sit Down, which you’ll find below. They cover Dominion, 7 Wonders and Nightfall. Hurrah!

Whenever Paul is in Wolf costume and being very serious, I find it worryingly funny.

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69 Comments »

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  1. Bull0 says:

    As something of a veteran figure painter I’m highly dubious about that quickshade stuff. Doesn’t really look like good highlighting. Intriguing, all the same.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Oh, totes. But – y’know – army in a weekend.

      KG

    • simonh says:

      Isn’t it the same as the washing technique many use for their Warhammer figures? I thought that was pretty standard stuff. It looks a lot better than anything I think I could accomplish with manual shading anyway.

    • Bull0 says:

      Definitely appealing. Those Mantic elves are a little on the emaciated side for my tastes, but I really like their orcs.

      Yes, it’s similar to a wash, but washes tend to just run into the recesses to darken them – purely from the article it looks like this stuff is gloopier, so it shades surfaces a bit better and leaves the effect of a highlight around the edge of those surfaces, so it’s sort of doing a shading job and a highlighting job aswell. Usually you’d employ a few different techniques in concert to achieve that kind of effect. Pretty good time-saver, though.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      simonh : There’s a “HOW TO” PDF on their page somewhere which takes you through it step by step. I may actually do. It’s actually based around basecoat, PHYSICALLY DIPPING THEM IN A TINTED VARNISH WITH PLIERS, NO REALLY and then (once dried) giving them a thin layer of matt varnish spray to remove the shine.

      Bull0: Yeah – they’re definitely not Mantic’s best figures – being their first, I suspect they wouldn’t be – but fine for my purposes. I wanted a secondary army to go with my Skaven in case anyone came around and fancied a game. The Skaven are painted “properly” (If with an eye for speed), so since this is very much a B-army, I didn’t want to spend another two years finding the time to get them functional. And since they are as cheap as they are, I didn’t mind going the dip route.

      (When these lot are all done, I’ll actually buy the Island of Blood and fill out both sides a little more)

      KG

    • Bull0 says:

      They’re perfectly serviceable though, especially given the benefits of fielding giant regiments in modern WFB and GW’s cheeky pricing.

      …says the man who bought a £31 tank kit from them this morning. So just a little disingenuous!

      *edit* Those explanatory pages:

      http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/TAP/elves-ap-technique-1.jpg

      http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/TAP/elves-ap-technique-2.jpg

    • OrangyTang says:

      Yeah, it’s just the old washing technique, except it’s wash+varnish in one paint. Good for adding basic shading to a flat-painted model, but it’s never going to be anywhere near as good as a properly shaded miniature.

      Personally I wouldn’t use it, because it’s incredibly obvious when it’s been used, and it’s generally a bit naff. But if you’re more into the gaming rather than the painting I can see it having appeal. Just save it for the grunts and paint the rest properly.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      I didn’t believe that washing technique generally involved dipping figures in a big old jar.

      But yeah, totally. It’s one for those who lean gamers. Frankly, one of the general problems I see with any miniature game is people going “Oh, I’ll never paint them all” or whatever*, so stressing unintensive routes is kinda the way I go. Because functionally painted figures > unpainted ones.

      KG

      *Putting aside the number of people I know with entirely unpainted armies, etc.

  2. Ergates_Antius says:

    Not just Not-Quinns, it’s SCC…

    • hoobajoo says:

      A wise man once said all British TV boils down to is not very attractive people being unpleasant to each other.

      Edit: WHOOPS replied to the wrong person. Oh well, I can’t discern how to delete this, so it stands.

    • Bull0 says:

      Doesn’t sound very wise to me; sounds like the ramblings of a stupid racist wanker

    • Pamplemousse says:

      Quinns doesn’t look too bad.

    • hoobajoo says:

      @Bull0: it might have been Yahtzee; dunno if that changes your perspective on things.

      As opposed to America, I where over 90% of the people on television are selected for their looks, rather than their acting talent, comedic timing, or what have you. Billie Piper, for example, could not feasibly be a lead on any network show in America, simply because she has a tooth that is slightly ajar. And that is a garbage way to go about things.

    • Quintin Smith says:

      Haha. Thanks Pamplemousse. In all seriousness, when you’re doing video like this it’s odd how quickly you quit being self conscious. I now get how after several years Consolevania climaxed with this:

  3. Premium User Badge

    Fede says:

    Awesome.
    The 5th episode should be near, if they keep making them at this pace it should be out this week :)

  4. TenjouUtena says:

    I like how the Shut Up & Sit Down eps make it seem like Paul & Quinns’ relationship is based totally on being jerks to each other.

    So like real life then.

  5. Premium User Badge

    Hanban says:

    I suddenly feel like drinking Gin & Tonic. While playing card games. What happened!?

  6. coldvvvave says:

    Is that Keanu Reeves on the right?

  7. Daniel Rivas says:

    Quinns’s vampire Withnail is exquisite.

  8. mod the world says:

    Oh yay, Kieron is back!

  9. aircool says:

    I like the shiny varnish…

  10. skurmedel says:

    Dominion rocks.

    • Kdansky says:

      Try Puzzle Strike. It is like Dominion, except more interactive, and with asymmetric starting decks. And it seriously needs more media exposure!

    • Josh W says:

      I love the concept of dominion: All the combomongering goodness of vintage magic the gathering, but all tied up and contained in the time you spend opposite your opponent. But I want more depth, and more than anything else, I want better card colours!

      It may be daft but that combination of colours sets my teeth on edge a little. I want to leave them under a sunlamp so that they have a legitimate excuse to have that kind of faded 50’s illustrated book feel.

  11. Raiyan 1.0 says:

    Ha ha! Nice title Kieron.

    It’s Quinns, but not in the sense we usually expected on RPS.

    Which, come to think of it, makes me rather sad.

    Terrible title, Gillen.

  12. Jorum says:

    As I have 230 unpainted skaven on my shelf I think I may have to try dipping techniques.

    The mantic elves wouldn’t be too bad but those 10-ince waists make them look like a bad D&D illustration.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      For me, it totally comes to a self-knowledge thing. If you’re never going to put the time in to do a task, you change the task to something you will do. Dipping is a heavyweight compromise, but there’s other methods for painting masses you may fancy nosing.

      (Honestly? Take a skaven slave. Spray white. Using the washes, brown on the fur, pin on the faces and black on the clothes. Perhaps a brown wash over it all. Frankly, better effects than I’ve ever managed to get by trying to drybrush fur.

      The way I actually do my rank and files is spray white, basecoat areas like surcoat and armour the appropriate colour, then do the above washes, with a brown wash over the surcoat and armour and similar. Perhaps a brown wash over it all to tie it in. Then face stuff.)

      KG

    • DrGonzo says:

      I’m useless at this, but my girlfriend is in the process of painting Space Hulk for me. It doesn’t seem that spraying anything is necessary at all any more, you can comfortably skip that stage.

    • Chris D says:

      I always preferred a black undercoat myself. If you use white and miss a bit it sits there screaming “Look at me! Look at me!”, if you miss a bit using black it’s just a shadow.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Point being: You can’t just use a wash over either bare plastic or black.

      KG

    • Teddy Leach says:

      I always use a black primer, paint flat, drybrush a highlight, then do a shading wash. Works a treat.

    • Chris D says:

      @KG

      I think my brain had refused to comprehend that you were only using washes and automatically edited in some other paint before that stage.

      Really that works? I shall have to try that some time. Although to be honest these days I find it hard to get past the “You know, I could always just fire up Total War instead.” phase.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Teddy: It totally would. But you’ve added a handful of extra stages over what I was suggesting. I’m painting Skaven, man. I’ve got hundreds of the fuckers.

      Chris D: Yeah, it was a bit of a mindblowing moment for me. When I first got my skaven I did four different ways of doing them quicklish, and in terms of the results I got it was both the quickest and best. I do some flat colours as well – surcoat & armour – because it sort of offended my work ethic, but for my Rank & File skin and fur are absolutely just washes over white.

      I have a mate of mine who works with a much better eye for finesse rather than my army-painting approach, and he uses solely washes, which creates some impressive results /with just washes/*.

      Here’s a couple:
      http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/2580298344_f5b4fa53dd.jpg?v=0
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/44803703@N00/2894938462/
      Actually, you can nose through his flickr file…
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/44803703@N00/2907592973/

      Worth noting that I do spend more time on detailing and do drybrushing on my heroes, etc.

      KG

      *Well, 98% washes. But the new washes really are nifty.

    • aircool says:

      White undercoat, base coat, wash, drybrush with base coat colour, drybrush with highlight colour.

      I do like the wash/varnish idea though (especially as I’m old skool and like shiny varnish), so I might try it out as it looks ideal for Kroot. All I need now is some proper metal mini’s that don’t need gluing, as snipping, filing and gluing plastic mini’s is tedious.

      Anyone know where to get some good metal mini’s?

  13. Kaira- says:

    I tried to watch some earlier episode with no success, but this one just hooked me. What do you know, British people can actually be funny sometimes.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Of course Brits are funny! Why do you read this site if you don’t find it amusing?

    • Kaira- says:

      For the news, insights and debates, obviously!
      And of course some Brits can be funny, what else would you call Monty Python and Fast Show and whatnot.

    • Koozer says:

      You win four points for knowing one series that isn’t Monty Python. That’s Numberwang!

    • ZeroMatter says:

      Brits are the funniest people in the whole world, damnit!

      (I’m not a Brit, btw. I just watched a lot of british comedy on youtube.)

    • Will Tomas says:

      I’ve always been a massive fan of whatnot.

  14. bytex666 says:

    Brits always make the funniest computer mags, ever since the 80’s, I would travel miles to get the latest CU Amiga copy, or Amiga Power, where Gillen cut his teeth as a journo.

    Wit and sarcasm and “taking the piss” out of eachother is the essential bit in british humor, and Paul and Quinns in SUSD does just that.

  15. ClockworkTiger says:

    Shut Up and Sit Down is like love.

    You’re happy all alone in your little world. Then you find it, and suddenly life seems even better than before. Until, inevitably, it comes to an end. Now you’re back to exactly where you were before, only this time you are left with a vaguely hollow feeling and a yearning that will only be sated when it finds it’s way into your life again.

    Except Shut Up and Sit Down comes around reliably about once a month with one new article a week to hold you over in the interim.

    So Shut Up and Sit Down is better than love.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Will I be beaten if I say the presentation left a lot to be desired?

      Going for a wander through your flat with a Handicam is perhaps not the best way to talk about card games.

    • yutt says:

      @LionsPhil

      No, that’s the generic, faux-controversial sort of position anyone who frequents the RPS comments would expect from you. *yawn*

    • Quintin Smith says:

      Hey Phil! We’re just two amateurs with one camcorder and one microphone doing our best not to screw up the writing of the show, or the presenting, the pace, the directing, the audio, the lighting, the editing, or even the file compression, while simultaneously wrestling with the impossible puzzle of how to make a review of a board game dynamic and engaging for everybody from hardcore board game fans to their spouses and children.

      Of course the presentation is going to leave something to be desired. It’s going to leave everything to be desired! On the other hand, we’re getting better with every episode. Feel free to come back in six months and see how you feel then. :)

    • Chris D says:

      Ignore him, Quinns, it’s a fantastic show. If there’s better way to talk about card games than wandering around your flat with a handicam then I don’t know what it is.

  16. Radiant says:

    ALERT!
    I’ve figured out Quinns lives in Hammersmith.
    I live in Paddington.
    I have just bought some camping gear and night vision goggles.
    Will report later.

  17. kael13 says:

    Why do I get the strong impression that I know Quinns personally?

  18. Strontium Mike says:

    On a slightly related note, anybody know how to get 28 year old Humbrol paint off Citadel and Grenadier metal miniatures?

  19. Milky1985 says:

    Well hammersmith does need a nightclub, they shut all the sodding places down during the few years i lived there (don’t think those two things were related) :P

  20. Quintin Smith says:

    By the way all, Shut Up & Sit Down updates leak most frequently through Twitter and our hot new Facebook page. If you want more, and then EVEN MORE, then we’ve got your “more” here:

    http://twitter.com/#!/shutupshow
    http://www.facebook.com/shutupshow

  21. Shadowcat says:

    Sweet merciful crap, that video was more than half a gigabyte! Maybe you could NOT embed the HD version in future?!

  22. bill says:

    Wow. 70 elves for 50 quid…. that’s a much better deal that the old individual packs of GW miniatures!

    PS/ Did anything ever come of the DownTime Town thing? Or are we waiting for rab to come back?

  23. Paul Dean says:

    If you haven’t yet had enough of SU&SD, here’s some blatant self-promotion: The trailer for Episode 5, the sci-fi special.

    • Berzee says:

      hah, what better place to blatantly self-promote than in a discussion that is entirely about you?

      sci-fi means I can postpone the faint hope I entertain each episode of seeing Thorn(e) and Buldar again…but that’s okay. I trust you to be you better than I trust myself to be…you.

      *goes into cryo-pod until the 8th*

  24. Berzee says:

    What I like best about this article is that it is an article about a hero of the past, posted by a hero of the past.