BlizzCon’s Peculiar Homophobic Moment

27/10/2011 at 13:58 DrGonzo says:

I think South Park made a very good case about faggot, and how it isn’t actually homophobic ( or shouldn’t be ). It is in such common usage it’s easier to change what the word means than to stop people using it.

As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.

Also, it’s a joke. Of course he doesn’t want people dead. Did you really think he actually meant that?

27/10/2011 at 14:01 actionthom says:

Unfortunately that’s not your, or South Park’s decision to make. If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.
27/10/2011 at 14:01 The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

So you’re suggesting that blizzard is pioneering this change?
27/10/2011 at 14:03 HexagonalBolts says:

In that case then I should spend all day shouting racial slurs at you for being whatever skin colour you are, and you can pretend i’m just talking about bananas.
27/10/2011 at 14:04 Brumisator says:

Well you can say what you want about the word “fag”, but “cocksucker” is really quite literal in its homophobic meaning.

But all I really see in this video is gratuitous swearing used for supposed comedic effect. I don’t see the direct homophobia.

Basically, I agree with what what PJmendez said below.
27/10/2011 at 14:04 Cerzi says:

relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

another take on the word

Having said that, the guy is just a douche – getting up in arms over this being homophobic is a bit sensationalist. He’s just a turd, don’t give him more airtime.
27/10/2011 at 14:08 mjig says:

“If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t”

Yeah, it shouldn’t be about whether or not something is offensive to someone, but whether or not we should care.
27/10/2011 at 14:14 misterk says:

I really, really need to address this, but this is such bullshit. While a word is still used as a negative descriptor, or even a descriptor for that group, using it to mean something negative is necessarily confusing the meaning. If I use the word “Jewish” and claim that its ok, because its been used so much it just means bad, thats not fine, right? The word needs to be sufficiently disassociated from its roots to get away with that. And for that to happen, of course, it would mean the subculture would have lost that word.

There are lots and lots of words to use to describe something negatively, so why not use something that is also an insult used to intimidate and insult homosexual people all over the world? What infuriates me about these attitudes is that they are typically taken by middle class men in comfortable lives where they simply don’t have to confront such prejudice, as if homosexual people don’t have to closet themselves in many places of the world (including parts of the US and UK) to prevent their lives being at risk.
27/10/2011 at 14:15 DrGonzo says:

Of course you can argue back at them! Fuck offense. Being offensive is one of our great freedoms. Cannibal Corpse write songs about fucking people with knives ( and that is relatively mild for them ). I really don’t think this is particularly extreme of them.
27/10/2011 at 14:16 Nathan says:

There’s a line somewhere that distinguishes whether or not it is my responsibility not to offend, or someone else’s sensibilities making them “too” easily offended.

Where that line is, I’m not really sure.
27/10/2011 at 14:22 Hanban says:

Certainly people can at times be too sensitive about things. But implying that the meaning of the word ‘faggot’ has change so much that people should stop finding it offensive, makes you look like a real poor excuse for a human being.

For the people who get beaten up to the chorus of ‘faggot’ I’m sure the word has very traumatic and directly negative connotations, and you can’t tell them otherwise. Doing so makes you look like a tool, and a person lacking the social ability to step inside someone else’s shoes and imagine what it’s like being them.
27/10/2011 at 14:22 kikito says:

“If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.”

I find that completely offensive.
27/10/2011 at 14:29 DrGonzo says:

That wasn’t what I was saying. I was saying that the word SHOULD change and that most of the kids who use it when asked would respond that they meant it in that way.

But no. We aren’t allowed to discuss this. It is forbidden!

One other point, how is cocksucker homophobic at all? I mean most women are cocksuckers, and gay men also suck cocks. Plus it’s a wonderful and loving act. Am I missing something here?
27/10/2011 at 14:32 JackShandy says:

You must understand how terrible it is to use words describing a certain type of person as synonymous with “Bad thing”. You must.

“Oh, that word doesn’t mean (female/jewish/african) anymore, it’s just a synonym for “Horrible person”!”

I’ve grown used to “Gay” being used as “Lame”, but I’m honestly shocked to hear that “Faggot” is apparently a totally normal way to call out someone you dislike.

EDIT: DRG when you use the word for a wonderful and loving act as synonymous with “Terrible terrible thing” you are demeaning and vilifying that act. If you do not understand this then I think all the rules I use as a basis for conversing for people are crumbling.
27/10/2011 at 14:33 The Hammer says:

1) Cocksucker is used in almost all cases as an insult.

2) If you use the term ‘cocksucker’ against a straight person, then you are implying that they commit gay acts.

3) “But wait!” you say, “being gay isn’t a bad thing, in our world!” But ‘cocksucker’ is still used as an insult, as we saw in point one.

Therefore, you are associating being gay as a bad thing. And ‘cocksucker’ is still used as a homophobic slur, whether or not people use it independently from the issue.

@JackShandy: me too. It must be an American thing, in the same way that ‘spaz’ is. That’s the only conclusion I can think up.
27/10/2011 at 14:33 actionthom says:

@kikito then I apologise
27/10/2011 at 14:40 bglamb says:

Arguing that the word ‘fag’ is taken out of context is missing the point that a lot of people so still use that word as anti-gay slang.

It’s like saying that calling someone a whore isn’t actually sexist, because I’m not calling her an actual prostitute. Or ‘retard’ is fine because I’m not implying that they’re actually suffering from a medical condition.

These words all carry connotations which are directly related to the original meaning of the word. The fact that the word ‘fag’ has become commonplace on certain parts of the internet (like a certain racial slur), is taken by a lot of people to validate the original prejudice.

As long as people are still calling gay people ‘fags’ in a derogatory way, then it is not ok to keep using it in civilised society.
27/10/2011 at 14:48 Myros says:

When it comes to offensive words its all about assoctiation and implied meaning. Just because some people have decided ‘gay’ or ‘faggot’ can also be used as a generic insult against anyone (not just homosexuals) doesnt change the fact that it is an offensive term associated with homosexuals. And it makes it no less offensive to them.

eg Say a few people decided to start using ‘american’ as a generic insult to describe assholes. When confronted by an offended american they could just say “oh but I wasnt talking about people from america, its just a generic insult meaning asshole” …. plain to see that the implied meaning is american=asshole therefor insulting/offensive to americans wether you meant it that way or not.
27/10/2011 at 14:48 Woden says:

The thing that surprises me the most about this story is the reaction by RPS commenters. Coming here day after day and reading comments, I took the RPS community for intelligent, thoughtful folk (because as we all know, puns and sarcasm are the highest form of comedy, I mean, obviously).

The particular flavor of kneejerk hatefulness on display in these comments was something I thought was the province of boys too young and stupid to know better, and people who share that mental level, such as YouTube commenters and right-wing politicians. To see it here is disappointing, but not shocking.

By contrast, the attempts to justify that kneejerk hatefulness are the sole province of adults who are mature enough to consider their views and, upon doing so, have arrived at the conclusion that it’s perfectly OK to continue on with being a towering asshole. “If I’m not offended, then it isn’t offensive” is an airtight philosophy as long as you make it a point to only associate with people exactly like yourself. Seeing comments justifying and explaining here? That is both shocking and disappointing.
27/10/2011 at 14:51 Stevostin says:

“Unfortunately that’s not your, or South Park’s decision to make. If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.”

Nope, that’s an exageration. If a group of french speaking people say they find it offensive that the BBC journal is in english, it can and will be argued back. Of course you’ll rush in and say “it’s absolutely not the same”, but that’s my point : it’s a slider, not a 0/1 limit. We all agree that if GTAIV had a mission where you get a bonus by hitting a gay character with a baseball bat, that would be a big issue. But we also agree that maybe we don’t want to play a Mass Effect with same sex character publicly enjoying themselves in the background during conversation (well, I mean “play more than once” :P). So it’s open to debate : where do we put the slider ?
27/10/2011 at 14:54 Verio says:

This “fag is ok now, didn’t you hear?” attitude I am seeing here is the first I have ever seen of this. This coming from an American. I certainly wouldn’t agree with that at all.

In fact for what it’s worth, the community of which I am a part allows a lot of juvenile shit, and a lot of swearing. One thing that is NOT tolerated at all, either on our forums, or in-game voice coms (TF2 mostly) is calling people “fag”. The community made a decision 6-7 years ago that we weren’t 16 year olds anymore, and were capable of higher standards.

TBH it’s almost like one ignorant kid has derailed this entire response.
27/10/2011 at 14:54 JackShandy says:

I feel the same, Woden – every time something like this happens I feel a bit disillusioned with the RPS community.

Then I go look at the comments under something like PC gamer and realize that this is the best place we’ve got.

Horribleness is inevitable when any joe horrible can wander in off the street and start spewing hate – all you can do is recognizable that those people aren’t representative of the RPS community as a whole.
27/10/2011 at 14:55 Kaldor says:

It has homophobic origin, but it’s quite “correct” to point out that it doesn’t necessarily have this meaning and intention. It’s a juvenile word, but it doesn’t necessarily imply a worldview where gay people have certain characteristics. That’s where it comes from, but it’s reapplied to general “bullying” (in the same way as emo) without necessarily referring to the recipient’s sexual orientation. So it would be more accurate to call this event “offensive”, but “homophobic” would be a selective emphasis based on personal priority. I know you can only do wrong in “splitting hair” in anything offensive, but differences should still matter. I don’t think homosexual people are necessarily offended, it might depend on their activist tendencies and experiences, but they don’t need to feel adressed except by association, because they most likely aren’t adressed.

Also how often have you seen something like “elves are gay”? It means “unmanly”, “unmasculine”, “feminine”, “nancy” (I have to think of Monty Python at this word)…
27/10/2011 at 14:59 Pathetic Phallacy says:

I’m sorry, but this whole ‘words change meaning’ argument is just too fucking hilarious. The word has not changed its meaning. Gay teens are getting the shit kicked out of them across the country while being called a fagot.

We as a society can actually prevent a lot of these gay kids from taking their own lives. Yes, maybe some are just clinically depressed and unfortunately their depression goes unnoticed. But most of them are killing themselves because their environment despises them. Kids learn from us. If we use the word to joke around with our friends, you can damn well bet they will use the word to hurt someone. It baffles me how some people value their freedom to use a single word more than they value the lives of others.

I’m really disappointed with the comments I’m reading on this site. I would expect some of these rants from Kotaku members, but RPS? What a shame.
27/10/2011 at 14:59 Kaira- says:

I support freedom of speech. It really does bring out the idiots like nothing else.
27/10/2011 at 15:12 Kaldor says:

“I’m sorry, but this whole ‘words change meaning’ argument is just too fucking hilarious. The word has not changed its meaning. Gay teens are getting the shit kicked out of them across the country while being called a fagot.”

That’s not fucking hilarious. All kinds of words have all kinds of different meanings and nuances of meanings. That’s basic linguistics. (Not the stuff about gays, the stuff about meaning.) That is a simple reality that can be pointed out.

Everyone agrees that it’s offensive and that gay teens are getting a lot of shit, but this is not a political event, it’s just a weirdo singer ranting, it’s a very old video. They thought he was a minor celebrity and so they invivted him. It’s not supposed as advertisement of those views, save for his strange personality and fandom.

Also there are constantly offensive words in all kinds of semi-humorous, offensive contexts on the internet. This is just a good opportunity in talking about it, perhaps (still better in class rooms, with parents etc.), but it’s not even unusual, and as can be correctly pointed out it doesn’t necessarily carry the same meaning in all instances (like words in general!).

You can talk about this all day long and not notice that there’s not a disagreement about the substance, only that how you interpret this might not be its intention.
27/10/2011 at 15:13 ScubaMonster says:

I have to say, you guys are being a bunch of pansies. I’m tired of all this politically correct crap. Oh no, someone might be offended. If we use that as the measuring stick for everything we say, then you might as well not say anything at all because someone, somewhere, will find it offensive.

And if you expect me to believe you never used something as an insult that could be negative or offensive towards someone or a group of people, you are lying and pretentious. You can whitewash yourself on an internet forum, that doesn’t make you innocent.

Fire away! And be sure not to use something that might offend me, lest you become a hypocrite.
27/10/2011 at 15:23 Azradesh says:

You are aware that the word’s meaning has already changed many, many time. I have no idea how it came to mean homosexual, but that was not it’s first meaning and it will not be it’s last.
27/10/2011 at 15:33 Smashbox says:

| As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.
Sorry, but… wrong.
27/10/2011 at 15:35 Ghil says:

Steve Hughes makes a great commentary about Offense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg
27/10/2011 at 15:39 iucounu says:

@Scubamonster:

“a bunch of pansies.” So you clearly feel being a pansy is not something that it’s good to be, something that people ought to stop being; something effeminate, unmanly. There’s your homophobia right there.

People don’t have a right to never be offended. But if you go round deliberately using language that you know is offensive to blameless folk who have never done anything bad to you, you’re just being a dickhead. Spouting off about ‘political correctness’ as if you’re some sort of rebel hero who is only just managing to dodge the gulags is a pathetic justification for thoughtlessly hurting people. I’m sure I’m often offensive to people, but if they complain to me I tend to actually apologise for causing them distress. Rather than, y’know, being an asshole or a bully about it.
27/10/2011 at 15:44 Tyshalle says:

This is all very retarded. In no way am I talking about the video, which I have not watched, but instead the general view that it doesn’t matter how you mean it, what matters is how I take it. That we should actually censor ourselves because people might get offended by our choice in words, and not our intended meaning behind them.

To suggest that you could throw out a racial slur and say: “You shouldn’t feel offended, because I meant it as ‘banana’” is intellectually dishonest, and incredibly douchey. Nobody uses those words in a negative connotation unless they’re making some pretentious point like above. Gay, however, for better or worse, is very frequently used in completely different connotations than to actually condemn homosexuality. I know plenty of gay people who throw that word around in the same exact way as any pimply faced prepubescent, and they’re not holding their people back, nor are they ashamed of who they are; they’re just not uptight like most of you seem to be.

If we’re really going to stop using words that offend people, then eventually we’re going to run out of words completely (or at least the fun ones). After all, certainly calling somebody a dickface is going to offend all of the people who’s faces look like dicks, right? Can’t have that. Can’t use the word stupid, because that would offend anyone with an honest enough assessment of themselves to recognize that they’re dumb. Or hell, we can’t use any insulting terminology at all, because after all, you’re simply using it to hurt somebody else’s feelings, right?

Let’s just sanitize our entire language until talking stops being fun all together. At least that would satisfy the soccer moms that seem to be inhabiting this thread.
27/10/2011 at 15:44 The Hammer says:

By the way:

We can debate whether ‘faggot’ is an insult geared towards homophobia all day, but when this bloke specifically refers to Silvermoon City – home of the elves – as “queer”, I think we can assume he doesn’t mean in the Tolkien “queer lodgings” way.

Yes? Or has “queer” got nothing to do with homosexuality either, these days?
27/10/2011 at 15:56 JackShandy says:

Dude’s probably just talking about Clockwork Oranges.
27/10/2011 at 15:56 Reapy says:

Eh. Seems like the homophobic commit is taken out of context. I understand homophobia exists and is a bad thing, but this was just a guy selecting insults from his probably limited vocabulary, whos minor celebrity seems to come from the fact that he only has 6 insults in his brain to use at any one given time.

If you have read any kind of wow forums at all you know that his attitude fits right in with what you would read there on a day to day basis, the comedy apparently supposed to be the surfacing of that ‘culture’ from forums to IRL.

I really don’t see in this context any evidence of homophobia or hate speech towards gay people…but if you want to interpret it that way to make a story and generate comments, i guess that has been successful.

I’m in the camp of people some would probably call immature. I think all language is welcome, and it is the context and intent of the author which delivers the message, not the specific words chosen. It is one of the reasons I love the jabberwalky by lewis carol so much, a bunch of nonsense words given form within the context, and suddenly a message is delivered.

Words are words, their meaning can vary wildly depending on the context they are used and the culture they are from. If you try to censor one word, another will surface in its place, having the same meaning. If everyone said ‘aww fudge’ instead of ‘aww fuck’, given enough time fudge would replace the triggers in your brain you have now when you read and see ‘fuck’.

In terms of the people who have had hard lives with heavy triggers….there are so many of them out there, it is literally impossible when addressing a large audience to never go towards one. A lot of the time i use the word ‘retarded’ or some variation all the time when speaking to friends. One of my friends though dislikes this word as she has a special needs family member and works with lots of special needs people, so when I am around her, I try to not use this word out of respect for a person, but ultimately I don’t attempt to remove the word from my vocabulary since it is still good at effectively communicating itself. EG when you say ‘thats retarded!!!’ it has a different context to ‘thats silly!’. Subtle, but different enough to require two words, and really might say that by using a slightly controversial word you find a meaning you couldn’t by using a ‘clean’ word.

I don’t get this like shock at shock humor. This is not new, not by a long shot. People have been using offensive language on stage, basically forever. This guy is just, really, really, really, bad at it.
27/10/2011 at 15:57 marlin says:

You should all be feeling sorry for us confused Englishpersons. Over here;

Fag = slang term for ‘cigarette’
Faggott = Northern England meatball-like delicacy.
27/10/2011 at 16:07 Tyshalle says:

Also, not to be a callous dickwad, but as far as this whole sentiment that gay people are getting the shit kicked out of them while being called names that other people use to describe something lame, so what? Clearly the motives behind both situations are different. And people get picked on all the time for a whole slew of different reasons. When I was a kid I was called “Big Head” because my hair tends to grow outward instead of down. Does that mean that if you insult an ego maniac as having a big head that my eyes should start watering, as I take extreme offense at all the childhood pain you’ve dredged up for me? Of course not. And if I did, I’d be in the wrong.

And can’t we all agree that the reason we don’t throw around the N-word to mean something other than “I hate black people” is not because the word is intrinsically hateful, but because we’re afraid of getting beat to death? If you really want to see the world stop throwing around the word gay so casually, the answer is not to be a sniveling soccer mom about it, it’s to create scarier gay people.
27/10/2011 at 16:15 JackShandy says:

Hold on-

“,,,gay people are getting the shit kicked out of them while being called names that other people use to describe something lame,”

Is the “Something lame” here “Being Gay”?
27/10/2011 at 16:21 sinister agent says:

I really, really need to address this, but this is such bullshit. While a word is still used as a negative descriptor, or even a descriptor for that group, using it to mean something negative is necessarily confusing the meaning. If I use the word “Jewish” and claim that its ok, because its been used so much it just means bad, thats not fine, right? The word needs to be sufficiently disassociated from its roots to get away with that. And for that to happen, of course, it would mean the subculture would have lost that word.

This is the heart of it as far as I’m concerned. People can try to make out that ‘fag’ and ‘gay’ etc. are just used to mean ‘bad’ and therefore aren’t homophobic anymore, but everyone knows what they come from, and therefore that the implication is that gay is an insult. That’s where the insult is derived from, and that’s still common knowledge – more so in fact than that they just mean “bad”. The association is still there and extremely strong, so the whole “words change” line doesn’t hold water in this case.

If, for example, I called someone “nigger” when they did something foolish or objectionable, or I disagreed with a patently daft statement by saying “don’t be such an arab”, I’m pretty sure you’d all think I was being a dick, because both those terms already have far more established meanings. Whereas if I’d called you a “cretin” or “idiot”, most people wouldn’t blink, because those words haven’t meant “mentally ill” for about a century, and for the most part people aren’t even aware that they ever did.

I don’t get offended by it, as a rule. I just think it’s crass and tedious, and frankly calling someone a fag or a thing or concept gay isn’t even very satisfying, as neither word is fun to say. Unlike “cretin”, which is terrific fun to use.
27/10/2011 at 16:27 Legionary says:

Words do change their meaning. “Faggot” however means “gay” which means “generally bad”, so everything’s fine and dandy huh?
27/10/2011 at 16:28 Britney.S says:

Being a gay male myself, i can tell you that i was not offended by any of this, nor did i think that his intention was to be offensive to gays.
Used in the right context these words may have been offensive, but in this case it wasnt.
27/10/2011 at 16:28 Tyshalle says:

I point at a rock. I say: “That’s a gay rock.”

That’s not hate speech against cocksuckers nor carpet munchers, and it in no way supports discrimination against them.

It is possible, and not at all contradictory, to both throw the word “gay” around like candy and also be in total support of equal rights for homosexuals.

The problem isn’t that I’m using words intending to discriminate. The problem is that you’re too lazy or ill equipped to properly analyze the context in which words are used, and so you’d prefer to scrub our vernacular until everything is clearly labeled Good or Evil. But it ain’t possible, and even if it were it wouldn’t be a positive thing.
27/10/2011 at 16:33 JackShandy says:

Tyshalle, the context here is the phrase “Go kill yourself you night elf faggot.” That’s using gay as a synonym for bad thing. That is the context we are talking about, because all of these comments are in the context of this article.
27/10/2011 at 16:38 Britney.S says:

i actually think its emo’s he has a problem with.
27/10/2011 at 16:38 Chandos says:

Tyshalle says:
“When I was a kid I was called “Big Head” because my hair tends to grow outward instead of down. Does that mean that if you insult an ego maniac as having a big head that my eyes should start watering, as I take extreme offense at all the childhood pain you’ve dredged up for me? Of course not. And if I did, I’d be in the wrong.”

It’s very sad reading this and similar comments, especially so because it was only about a week ago or so a gay teenager was driven to suicide through relentless bullying, here in Canada. But clearly he was in the wrong, not the bullies.

I think some people here tend to forget how deeply gay people are affected by this issue. This is not about someone teasing you because of your hair or freckles or whatever. This is about a culture that normalizes hate and violence towards homosexual people. You yourself may not feel that hate, you may not be swayed by its influence. But there is solid proof, as in the case of people being driven to taking their own fucking lives, that a culture of hate can rise and be supported by what some people here might call benign slang.

Also @that guy who used the word “pansies”: We are not the pansies who cannot take anything less than perfect, you are, for your refusal to see how ugly the issue is, for your refusal to deal with the full scope of it, for your refusal to take responsibility as a member of the society and culture.
27/10/2011 at 16:38 sinister agent says:

The problem isn’t that I’m using words intending to discriminate. The problem is that you’re too lazy or ill equipped to properly analyze the context in which words are used, and so you’d prefer to scrub our vernacular until everything is clearly labeled Good or Evil. But it ain’t possible, and even if it were it wouldn’t be a positive thing.

So if you did something foolish, and I called you a nigger or jew or indian or taig (assuming you’re not actually black or jewish or etc.), you wouldn’t think that the basis of the insult was that I was implying that those things are by their very nature bad?

Yes, context is important. But so is the origin of the insult. The whole reason ‘gay’ is used to mean ‘bad’ is because the insult derives from homosexuality being considered inherently bad. It renders the context largely irrelevant. Sure, you’re not intending to attack homosexuals by calling the rock gay, but that use of the word is implicitly saying that being gay is inherently a bad thing.

As long as ‘gay’ etc. are still commonly (indeed, more commonly than otherwise) used to mean ‘homosexual’, that implication will still be there, as that meaning of the word is far more widely understood and accepted.

We all know that using words like nigger or queer aren’t automatically racist or homophobic attacks as they depend on the context (although even that’s largely because they’ve been reclaimed by black americans, and some gay people, although that’s less clear-cut). But when the whole point of using them is that you’re using them as a synonym for bad, stupid or otherwise undesirable, then your purported lack of homophobic intent is irrelevant, because the very basis of their use is that they’re insulting.
27/10/2011 at 16:47 The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

@Tyshalle Well done for using the word “retarded” to make your point! *slow clap*
27/10/2011 at 16:49 wisnoskij says:

“As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.”

For quite awhile it has just meant more specifically bottom of society, (ie someone who has the worst job or is the more reviled minority).
Maybe in a few years Pedophiles will be the new F****s.

The history of the word starts with it meaning little stick in England (which is why they call cigarettes this I think) and then it was used to denote a person who carries these little sticks (because it was the worst job around).
27/10/2011 at 16:52 qrter says:

So, how many of the people here who say that the words ‘fag’ and ‘faggot’ have lost their homophobic meaning are homosexual themselves?

Come on, speak up.
27/10/2011 at 17:02 Wulf says:

Please tell me I didn’t just read that…

Thank you, RPS, for your sanity. It is sad that your readers don’t also share that sanity.

What I have to say is utterly fucking pathetic is that people are so completely inconsiderate of those who’ve actually had to put up with homophobia, in verbal and physical ways. It used to be kind of bad, really bad, and ‘faggot’ was used by the dregs of society, the most bigoted, disgusting, depraved people you could find.

The problem for me is that I still have that definition in my head. If I see someone use ‘faggot,’ I can’t help but classify them as completely depraved, because they’re opting to use words that have accompanied terrible, horrific acts. It’s kind of like going up to a veteran and asking him if he likes war. It’s an incredibly dickish thing to do. But no, it’s not like some of us have had traumatic experiences with this.

So long as the “normal” quotient is happy, the white, straight, middle- to upper- class English speaking audience, then everyone should be happy, and we should all accept their happiness at the expense of our own. Because they’re perfect people, and they deserve it.

See, to me… that equates to perfect bigots.

Only an arsehole of the worst, worst possible kind is going to use things like ‘faggot’ or ‘gay’ as an insult. Think about this: None of my friends do it. Not one of them! I know people from various communities, from a number of walks of life, and not one of them does it. I don’t think any human capable of compassion would do it. But then, people are very good at dragging down my opinion of humanity in general, though most of all the most “normal” of us, who feel it’s completely okay to be bigoted about anything that doesn’t apply to them.

It’s not okay to use faggot in the same way that it’s not okay to use nigger.

I’m sorry, DrGonzo, but frankly? You disgust me.

(And I have to thank sinister agent for putting this more eloquently than I could. But… frankly? This is an emotionally charged topic for me and I’m doing all I can to hold my tongue.)
27/10/2011 at 17:11 Wulf says:

Anyway, what I take away from this is that it only matters if this has been a point of trauma for someone. The young people around here may not remember homophobia when it was bad, or may not have encountered it, but even here in sunny, perfect UK…

Like I said, it’s like asking a veteran if they like war. It opens up old wounds.

When you use the words that those people did, how can I not hold you in the same regard as those people? And by those people, I mean those who would beat the shit out of someone just for being different. Because that’s the category you rest in for me when you do that.

It’s as simple as that.
27/10/2011 at 17:38 Ironic War Criminal says:

DrGonzo. I have a South Park reference for you

[This is what over-privileged manchild nerds believe]
27/10/2011 at 17:58 Nalano says:

Two things.

1) South Park is not an arbiter of American morality.

2) Call a homosexual man a faggot. See what happens.
27/10/2011 at 18:43 Mendrake says:

I am bisexual. Most of my best friends are bisexual. Most of us have been pretty lucky to not have had much bad stuff happen because of other’s bigotry (though one of my friends got in a knife fight because she held hands with another girl). I don’t think we can argue the intent of their speech, and we really shouldent. We know these people are total assholes, that does not seem to be an issue we can debate. Arguing that they do not mean any ill when saying such things is, in my honest opinion, both not the point and bordering on idiotic.
What we SHOULD be talking about is why those who hired them let this happen. How this stuff made it through screening. How their staff thinks it’s okay. Because when we let bigotry happen in popular culture (and, like it or not, WoW is one of the most popular games out there) we condone it on a personal level. We encourage people to use these words, whatever their context. We encourage the kind of bullying that leads to suicide, and the kind of mentality that forces people to stay in the closet.
27/10/2011 at 18:59 Snargelfargen says:

In response to people saying:
1. “Arguing against displays like this is knee-jerk political correctness. Censoring free speech is wrong” – Here’s how it works. You (or blizzard or whomever) is allowed to say WHATEVER they want, and it can be sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever. That’s fine. Just be aware that anybody has the right to call you out on it. That’s what is happening here. People are getting incensed in the comments, because RPS dared mention that Blizzard supported homophobic view. Then they are understandably becoming hilariously defensive when their (dumb) stance is taken apart by other commenters.
2. “It wasn’t homophobic in that context. Gay slurs are part of the medium of gaming.”
-Ok, let’s look a little more closely at this. Context is something established by the tone and subtext of the event. Some pretty famous movies and works of literature have horrible homophobic/misogynistic/whatever things in them, but through the use of subtext and tone they establish a greater artistic meaning, or “context” as it were. So what is the subtext of Cannibal Corpse saying “night elf faggot” or “fucking emo cunt”? The subtext is that the horde is better than alliance. Nothing more, nothing less. There have got to be a million ways to get that across, but Cannibal Corpse (and by extension Blizzard) decided that “faggot” and “cunt” were the way to achieve this. Was that really necessary? Not at all.
Oh yeah and lets look at tone too. This part is a little confusing, because WoW is a game that has always been marketed at children as well as adults. It is catrtoon-like, has fantasy elements and apart from pop-culture references has never attempted to make any social commentary or be a satire in any way. Cannibal Corpse is a metal band well known for their profane lyrics. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that something here just isn’t right.

For the record, this looks to me like a hilarious mistake on the part of Blizzard’s marketing department. The censoring of “cunt” while letting “faggot” fly by, just shows some of the inherent hypocrisy in how we treat swear words.
27/10/2011 at 19:35 rayne117 says:

Who gives a hoot if you get offended. I sure the hell don’t.

Bunch of babies here.

“Britney.S says:10/27/2011 at 16:28
Being a gay male myself, i can tell you that i was not offended by any of this, nor did i think that his intention was to be offensive to gays.
Used in the right context these words may have been offensive, but in this case it wasnt.”

Hey look at that guys, a gay person said he doesn’t care.
27/10/2011 at 19:58 Snargelfargen says:

@rayne117

Your post doesn’t make a lot of sense Rayne.

“Who gives a hoot if you get offended. I sure the hell don’t.”

Are you saying that you admit that the slurs are homophobic and that you support them? In that case, good job. Admitting that something can be hurtful towards someone is the first step towards understanding.

“Hey look at that guys, a gay person said he doesn’t care.”

Not a surprise really. You gotta have a pretty thick skin on the internet if you are gay or female. That doesn’t make it ok though.
27/10/2011 at 20:14 sinister agent says:

I reiterate: Objecting to stuff does not necessarily mean “I AM OFFENDED”. It can just as easily mean “you are wrong”.
27/10/2011 at 20:23 Cryo says:

@Snargelfargen: Why are you wasting your time trying to talk to it?
27/10/2011 at 20:34 Snargelfargen says:

Wierd, my reply disappeared, here it is again.

@ Cryo
Always make a point of engaging with the worst comments, because anything that makes somebody THINK about their viewpoint is a good thing. Shutting them out just perpetuates the problem. And yeah, nobody ever admits they are wrong on the internet. But some of those proud people do go to bed and wake up the next day with a changed opinion.
I am often guilty of this.
27/10/2011 at 20:44 Roshin says:

If I started calling my female co-workers “cocksuckers” or “cunts”, and then try to argue that I was (A) just kidding or (B) just telling it like it is, then I’d be out of a job in less than 30 minutes and rightly so.

And yes, threads like these do make me wonder if I’m really at RPS anymore.
27/10/2011 at 21:27 sqparadox says:

I would like to point something out here. Many people are using the word “lame” as a suggestion for a meaning synonymous with the way the word “gay,” as used within common the vernacular. This is a perfect example of the OP’s point. Using the word “lame” to mean “out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated;” is the slang definition. “Lame” actually means “crippled or physically disabled, especially in the foot or leg so as to limp or walk with difficulty.” and/or “impaired or disabled through defect or injury” and/or “weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy.” The only one of those that comes close to the way people commonly use the word is the third (“weak, inadequate, etc), but even then they usually mean it as a derivative of the slang definition. However, someone could easily take offense at the other definitions.

Arguably, “lame” could be as offensive to a disabled person as “gay” or “faggot” may be to a homosexual. Now in reality that may not bear out, but that’s not my point.

My point is that people are commonly using the slang definition with complete disregard for the fact that someone may find the word offensive; just as people do with “gay” and “faggot.” The point is, “lame” is basically just further down the evolutionary path that “gay” and “faggot” are on; a road many words have travelled. I’m not saying “gay” and “faggot” aren’t offensive or that the slang definition should co-opt the traditional one (though in many way it already has, as we can no longer use gay in it’s traditional definition of happy, bright, playful and showy), or even that they are okay to use in this context, I’m simply agreeing with the OP and saying that they’re following a common evolutionary path.

Where that path will end; whether it will ever reach the same point “lame” has, I don’t know. But to say words don’t change meaning is folly. Language and words evolve over time; meanings change, new words develop and old ones fall out of the lexicon. If you don’t believe me just start picking random words and looking up their etymology, it won’t take long to find a word that has virtually no relation at all to the meaning it once held.
27/10/2011 at 21:49 Bilbo1981 says:

Lol John Walker, why is this news? Cannibal Corpse is a joke band!!! Oh my god is it super sensitive day or something, this is the sort of shit I expect to be reading on kotaku not rockpapershotgun. And whats more is this shit is getting loads of replies, christ sakes who gives a shit!
27/10/2011 at 22:10 Snargelfargen says:

@Bilbo1981

Yeah Cannibal Corpse’s lyrics are tongue in cheek. Corpsegrinder’s comments wouldn’t be out of place at a metal concert, where homophobic comments are usually part of the joke. Most metal bands don’t take themselves too seriously and call their audience all sorts of names. It’s offensive, homphobic and sexist, but at least they are aware of it.

WoW is not metal concert. It is a game marketed and aimed at kids (yeah and adults too). It has cartoonish art, a relatively clean fantasy setting and apart from some pop culture references, does not feature satire or social commentary. So saying stuff like “night elf faggot” and “fucking die, you fucking emo cunt” is totally out of place. Blizzard made a terrible decision to hire a man to call their customers derogatory, bigoted names.
27/10/2011 at 22:25 Nogo says:

Did you miss the Naggers episode of South Park?

Ya know, the one where they say it’s ignorant to claim something is inoffensive if you’re not part of the group that would take offense.
27/10/2011 at 22:27 Reapy says:

Just wanted to pop on and say completely agree with sqparadox.

I also am incredulous as to how you can say that when one person speaks a word and intends it as meaning A, it in reality means B. If you call any person a fag to their face with an angry tone its going to upset them, regardless of their sexual orientation, it is used as an offensive word.

I don’t really understand the leap from, you use insulting word A, with a common use context of ‘you are a dumbass’ into meaning the person actually in reality is a proponent of hate crimes and viciously beating people of a select orientation.

People have all sorts of traumatic upbringings. Hell I hated where I grew up and had a hard time and really just needed to get out of there. I went back over this weekend to visit my parents and walking around the place I was getting triggers left and right, from the way people talked to the way people dressed and looked. It brought up all sorts of bad memories and put me in a pretty bad place.

But that doesn’t mean that the people walking around wearing xyz cloths or having their accent are at fault for those things, and they clearly aren’t meaning to upset me. I have my triggers and things that bother me.

Honestly the best thing I would think would be to let the word faggot continue its drift away from meaning a gay male. The more people blow up and try to wildly shift the context of the word’s use mean hate crime support, the more you fight to tie it together.

It is very clear that the context of the ‘production’ here is intended to be offensive humor. It might be that you think offensive humor doesn’t have a place at blizzcon, and you might be right, but to argue that this is hate speach and homophobia is quite a logical leap, to say the least.

Being called an alliance fag does not mean ‘i hate gay people and think they should be beaten and tormented’. Stopping to use the word faggot will not change this type of behavior and is actually quite LAME if you think that because you stopped using faggot as an insult you are somehow going to make being a GBTL easier on a person, it is laughable.

The word isn’t driving this behavior forward, it is simply people being taught poor things form poor parents. I honestly think at this moment in time in the US at least popular culture is extremely gay friendly, and I honestly don’t think that culturally we are driving forward a gay bashing planet.

Bah whatever I can go on forever, we are probably going to all agree to disagree. Just because we all play games doesn’t mean that we see the world the same way, and issues of censorship (yes, this is what is argued) hit very close to home for many people.

We might not like what we hear, but it can be spoken. But even worse is when people twist the message to hear something offensive and targeted at them, when it is not in any capacity what so ever.
27/10/2011 at 23:00 Snargelfargen says:

I don’t think anybody here is accusing Blizzard of actively participating in gay-bashing. Chances are whoever was responsible for organizing this part of Blizzcon and releasing the video didn’t realize that it was going to be so offensive.

This is more about pointing out it out. Pretty much saying “hey guys, this is homophobic”. A lot of the time people will say and do very offensive things not out of any particular hatred, so much as ignorance. I’m glad that RPS is there to speak out about this sort of thing.

Simliarly the meaning of words such as “fag” and “gay” is definitely changing, but it is still very important to be aware of the connotations they carry. Use those words in the wrong way and you will make a jackass of yourself. That’s just the way it is and will be for a long time.
27/10/2011 at 23:16 lurkalisk says:

Part of what keeps the “hate” going is the fact that people care so much. Yes, he said bad words. Has it effected ANYONE? No, at least not anyone with a shred of self esteem.
27/10/2011 at 23:27 Snargelfargen says:

Wow lurkalisk, you must have powerful psychic abilties to be able to poll everybody in the world! I too, think people with poor self esteem deserve to be unhappy!

Seriouspost: It’s about how those “bad words” are used, not the words themselves.
27/10/2011 at 23:46 jrodman says:

Using ‘gay’ or ‘faggot’ to indicate something is bad is *always* problematic., because it reinforces the cultural perception that those things are bad.

You can fully support gay rights, and go to gay pride in support, and be gay yourself, and still the use of those words in that way undermines being gay as a 100% fine and totally as good as other people thing. Maybe the act of using those words that way isn’t *always* a very strong statement, but the association and the result is there every time.

When this is explicitly pointed out to you, and you just flatly deny it, all you have done is move from unthinkingly damaging, or unthinkingly hypocritical into a place where you have decided to keep being damaging or hypocritical via the power of your own denial.
28/10/2011 at 00:13 FunkyBadger3 says:

I agree with Wulf. There, I said it.
28/10/2011 at 02:45 Lemming says:

@The Hammer

have to completely disagree with you about ‘cocksucker’

As an insult, it is nothing to do with gay or straight – it is about submission. I refer you to: ‘Corporate cocksucker’.
28/10/2011 at 04:31 lurkalisk says:

@Snargelfargen

It just may be a good idea to endeavor to better your reading comprehension skills.

The only possible inference that could be made from my statement is that it requires very little self esteem to persist without taking offence in the face of such statements (or even take notice). I say this as I cannot account for those who either take things so personally as to give a damn, or those who’s self esteem is less than average (whatever that may be exactly). It could be just as easy for them, it just seemed unlikely to me.

How you understood that my statement had anything to do with what anyone deserves is beyond me.
28/10/2011 at 05:52 MultiVaC says:

The word “fag” has just evolved to mean “anything I dislike” instead of “gay person”! So it’s not homophobic at all, right guys?

I can’t believe people actually buy this line of reasoning. Yes, words do evolve, and someday “fag” will probably stop being be a hurtful word to almost anyone. Feel free to use it then, but don’t hold your breath waiting for that. It’s going to be a long fucking time.
28/10/2011 at 11:02 misterk says:

Because I still labour under the false apprehension that I might change people’s minds.

First, lets address the post specifically. The post is not about the band in question, but Blizzard’s choice to highlight said language, effectively “okaying” it to their audience, and thus making a more exclusionary environment for homosexual players in WoW. This is a strange thing for a big company to do, as John points out in the article, and seems misjudged. The article doesn’t actually claim that this is the worst thing in the world, but that it might be wise to you know, NOT do it.

For those of you who desperately want to use the word faggot… Why? We’ve demonstrated that it has a history of being used harmfully and awfully to hurt homosexuals, and that it is still used in this manner by many people. So why not not use it? Seriously, is your vocabulary so stunted that the only epithets you have available to you are ones that come with a taint of homophobia? Is your communication at all harmed by this? You know what I did when I found out that lame, or indeed mong, were words that were still felt to be hurtful by many disabled people? I tried to stop using them. Its just not that hard… I don’t need to reclaim these words. If I have a reason to use them beyond just punctuation then I will use them, but I usually don’t.
28/10/2011 at 22:37 TheGameSquid says:

I don’t use the word “faggot” that much, but I’m one of those people that doesn’t necessarily considers it to be offensive towards homosexuals. But that’s not the point.

The point here is that most of us are probably not homosexuals (based merely on statistics). If you’re not a homosexual, it is impossible for us to have any meaningful conversation about this. Are we going to have a discussion about what it’s like being black in racist America next, for example?

There’s no need to be “politically correct” if you ask me. All you need to do is look at your environment and assess the situation. Are you GENUINELY going to offend someone by using the word? If not, feel free. if you have your doubts, don’t, etc. There’s no general rule for politeness. The idea of being “politically correct” makes no sense, because it’s completely devoid of context.

Anyway, I love you guys here at RPS, but we really, really, REALLY need to stop having this insanely difficult discussions that CANNOT be resolved or agreed upon and which are obviously way over our heads.

As I said: homosexuals, feel free to discuss and share your experiences. Others: it’s probably better you stop trying to discuss this, as you will never understand.
28/10/2011 at 23:09 Nesetalis says:

I too don’t understand this “it’s okay to use the word fag” idea.. I have a gay room mate, who says the word with negative connotations even!… while the other gay room mate is constantly offended by this. The idiot roomie is a typical gamer kid of course, with a entitlement complex, and no sense of empathy. But he seems to think its okay to use the words “faggot” “fagballs” “fag” and “faggy” in regards to things he dislikes…. this kinda shit is beyond me.

27/10/2011 at 14:00 The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

I guess because that’s the sort of person they want to play their games.

27/10/2011 at 15:50 nanowired says:

Pretty much.

WoW has slowly been overpopulated with people who are just unpleasant to play the game, with or against. Sore losers, angst teenagers, and people who take the game far too seriously spam the waves with insults 24/7.

27/10/2011 at 14:00 JFS says:

… not only when it comes to World of Warcraft.

27/10/2011 at 14:00 PJMendes says:

This is not homophobic in the least, this is “badass” or “edgy” (as seen by these people, not necessarily my views), so you’re basically missing the point.

Would be nice to see some proper coverage of Blizzcon here though (stuff relevant to PC gaming) instead of these sort of “Politically Correct” rants.

27/10/2011 at 14:06 Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

“You’re gay so kill yourself” is neither edgy nor badass.
27/10/2011 at 14:07 HexagonalBolts says:

If they’d broadcast ‘you’re black so kill yourself’ and RPS took issue, would you have dismissed that as a politically correct rant as well?
27/10/2011 at 14:09 Lakshmi says:

HexagonalBolts beat me to it – this isn’t edgy or badass. It is however bloody stupid of Blizzard.
27/10/2011 at 14:13 str4 says:

I’ve always been curious as to why people refuse to understand the words people say rather than just hearing them.

Stop reading into things just so you can push politically correctness on people who are just having fun. Even if you’re not part of the culture, at least try and understand it.

This bums me out RPS. You’re better than this.

If you don’t _understand_ what I’m saying then your just being obstinate.
27/10/2011 at 14:17 StenL says:

I have to agree. These political correctness rants from Walker are quickly becoming the worst things on the site. Also, getting mad at Corpsegrinder is pointless as that is exactly what he wants you to do. The relatively stupid choice Blizzard made in broadcasting his rant is a different issue, but in no way should be considered worth posting on this site.
27/10/2011 at 14:18 misterk says:

“I’ve always been curious as to why people refuse to understand the words people say rather than just hearing them.

Stop reading into things just so you can push politically correctness on people who are just having fun. Even if you’re not part of the culture, at least try and understand it.

This bums me out RPS. You’re better than this.

If you don’t _understand_ what I’m saying then your just being obstinate.”

Orrr you could communicate in a manner which is not easily mistaken for homophobic. Its not hard to NOT use slurs which could look, to a gay person who has, say, lived in fear of being out their whole lives (note, gay suicides are not the be all and end all of this. It is still illegal to be gay in many parts of the world, and people have been killed by people and governments for being so). Why is that so hard? Thats all political correctness is, you know- an attempt to communicate in a manner that clearly gives one’s meaning.

If you mean that something is bad, there is a whole thesaurus of words you can use that won’t make people think you are a homohphobe. You are correct, RPS IS better than this. Its better than the laziness that thinks that being able to call someone a faggot is an essential right that must be defended.
27/10/2011 at 14:24 DrGonzo says:

I didn’t hear him say ‘you’re gay so kill yourself’. I heard, you’re Alliance so kill yourself.
27/10/2011 at 14:24 Belsameth says:

I wasy saying the same thing, tho slightly more blunt and less “PC”

I’ll just +1 this to prevent hurting some poor soul…
27/10/2011 at 14:25 Hanban says:

The ‘political correctness’ rants are not exclusive to Mr. Walker on RPS. They’ll likely make their way back here more times, so perhaps it’s time you get used to it.
27/10/2011 at 14:45 HexagonalBolts says:

I didn’t realise Daily Mail readers were the type to frequent RPS! Or at least those are the sort who I thought posted comments about ‘political correctness gawn maadddd’.

EVEN if corpsegrinder doesn’t directly intend his words to be homophobic (which they quite simply are, in the same way that if he said any racist slur, that too would be prejudiced), it is not acceptable to make a legitimate title for a subsection equivocal to ‘stupid’/'hateworthy’/'immoral’.
27/10/2011 at 14:45 Khann says:

Sorry. reply fail.
27/10/2011 at 15:05 The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

Yes! Down with political correctness! Let us label people and then use those labels to bring shame upon those people!
27/10/2011 at 15:26 hjparcins says:

PC Gaming Since 1973. Shit, I thought the PC stood for Personal Computer. My bad!

I thought I misclicked and landed on Huffington Post or Perez Hilton or something.

Seriously though, how many rants on homophobia and “Gays in Gaming” news topics must we be submitted to? I guess if I ever need to keep abreast of the advancement of homosexual gamers I can just pop in to RPS and read umpteen articles on how BioWare, despite heading in an otherwise shitty direction with all the corners cut and Day Zero DLC, is at least incorporating 2.5 gay characters in their next game and finally permitting male Shepard to have interspecies gay sex with Garrus and Wrex simultaneously in the Citadel Bathhouse.

Don’t even get me started on the Orson Scott Card article. What a waste of time.

RPS might miss a pretty big PC gaming development here and there, but God forbid we miss out on the fact that Bethesda was too lazy to code a block on marrying the male blacksmith with your horned viking beastman, conveniently leading to the new and ABSOLUTELY VITAL feature of gay furry relationships! PRE ORDER LOCKED IN.
27/10/2011 at 15:40 HexagonalBolts says:

This is really just people trolling now. Ultimately, If you don’t enjoy RPS’s writing then, quite simply, go somewhere else. I’m sure that they’ll be devastated at the loss. If bland poorly written gaming news devoid of moral judgement, personal expression or insightful analysis gets your juices going then, by jove, there are a trazillion sites out there for you to read! The world is your oyster!
27/10/2011 at 15:44 apocraphyn says:

PJMendes was talking along the right lines. It’s all dependent on context – people are taking this far too seriously. It isn’t ‘right’, but calling things “gay” or people “faggots” should not always be construed to mean it’s an offensive term directed against a sexual orientation. As far as language goes, it’s the equivalent of calling someone a “dick” – which basically equates to “idiot”, (unless you’re actually talking about man sausage). This doesn’t mean I’m a proponent of such language being bandied about – it’s just a sign of the times and today’s youth culture/slang.

It’s a very immature and fairly lacking insult, but it’s clearly offensive enough to stir up hundreds of comments of sociological and psychological debate. This is not homophobia. In a similar aspect, I would argue that the misogny created within Arkham City is appropriate, considering that it’s criminal scum that’s doing the name calling, calling Batman similarly mean things. Whether it’s inclusion was necessary is debatable – but it’s “gritty” and “realistic”, a target many games these days seem to aim for. If you want even more wantonly vivid examples of misogny and sexism, open some of the goddamn comic books the game is based on.

Personally, I think the focus of this article should have been upon the heavily promoted racism between the “Horde” and “Alliance”, rather than some weak argument against a slew of childish banter. That would have made for a much more interesting topic.
27/10/2011 at 16:01 Benga says:

calling someone a ‘faggot’ =/= homophobic?! Right…

Reasons why this is not the same as calling someone a ‘dick’ – there is not a group of people who associate themselves with the word dick AND have a history of persecution AND live in societies where they risk discrimination/physical harm due to their social group. Using the term Faggot as an insult reinforces the image of Gay is bad, therefore it promotes homophobia.
Would you call someone a ‘Nigger’ as an insult and argue that as it was to a non-black person it wasn’t racist?

The ‘racism’ of Alliance vs Horde?!… good trolling but I am not going near that one.
27/10/2011 at 16:12 nanowired says:

No, “badass and edgy” is kneeing one of these punks in the groin, and leaving their crumpled body on the ground as you walk off into the sunset.

27/10/2011 at 14:01 Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

Dubya tee eff, Blizzard?

Seriously.

27/10/2011 at 14:07 stele says:

I think this guy takes himself (and WoW) *WAY* too seriously. The phrase “get a life” may be entirely apropos here.
27/10/2011 at 14:17 DrGonzo says:

I actually don’t think he takes himself seriously in the slightest. Also, I don’t see how you could watch him, listen to what he says and then think he IS being serious at all.
27/10/2011 at 14:27 stele says:

It doesn’t matter if he himself is being serious or not. All the ranting (serious or not) about what people do *in a game* is what I’m talking about.
27/10/2011 at 15:49 Heisenberg says:

as far as i can tell , he is pretty drunk and just got a bit over excited about a game he loves. You could say he is taking the role playing part of belonging to the Horde a bit serious.
i didnt percieve any of this as anti gay…sorry.

27/10/2011 at 14:07 mjig says:

Yeah, calling female characters ‘bitches’. Extreme sexism.

Get over yourselves, there are real problems in the world without people trying their hardest to be offended at every little thing.

27/10/2011 at 14:11 Lakshmi says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#sensitive
27/10/2011 at 14:16 mjig says:

Yeah, man. Clearly I can’t understand because of all that white male privilege. The catch all response of cultural marxists.

Feminism is a victim ideology. Its goal is teaching people to be offended to better fill the pockets of writers and lecturers and Women’s Studies professors. It’s what most of our modern society is based on. Each group vying for control of who gets to be the most marginalized. Isn’t that was “Progressive Stack” is all about? Literally ranking people by how much of a right they have to be offended at things?
27/10/2011 at 14:18 DrGonzo says:

I don’t want to be associated with that attitude. I’m well aware of the sexism and homophobia that is rife in western society, and don’t deny things have to change. But this isn’t a problem and going on about things like this actually hurts the fight for equality imo.
27/10/2011 at 14:30 Rodafowa says:

“Yeah, man. Clearly I can’t understand because of all that white male privilege. The catch all response of cultural marxists.”

No, dude. Clearly you CAN understand. The problem, which is considerably worse, is that you WON’T understand because you can’t be fucked to make even a token effort to not be an arsehole to people who still get treated pretty shittily by society as a whole.
27/10/2011 at 14:51 henben says:

Anyone who goes on about “cultural Marxism” is just a racist/sexist/homophobe who doesn’t like being called on their racism/sexism/homophobia, or even having to contemplate that there are people who are different from them. That Breivik guy who shot up the Norwegian island full of kids was *obsessed* with the idea of cultural Marxism.

Now, that might sound like I’m trying to smear by association, so I want to make it clear that I’m not saying everyone who believes in cultural Marxism is a dysfunctional loner with a tiny dick who will one day go on a kill-crazy rampage. Just 90% of them.
27/10/2011 at 14:52 andrewdoull says:

While there are plenty of real problems in the world other than being offended, one of the real problems in the gamer community is being offensive in exactly this way. Which is why RPS is exactly right to call this out as being entirely inappropriate.

The fact that so many people are jumping to this idiots defence shows just how far the gamer community has to go.
27/10/2011 at 14:58 matty_gibbon says:

@mjig

So you don’t think that sexism or homophobia are real problems? What about racism, is that a real problem?

Maybe you don’t think that people are affected by these things. Where on the spectrum of imaginary to real problems would you put these issues?

27/10/2011 at 14:09 Risingson says:

Of course it’s homophobic and offensive. And if you don’t see that way, you lack empathy, education, and just the intelligence to put anything in context. Period.

And please do not compare it to South Park. South Park laugh at things laughing at themselves at the same time (or above it all).

27/10/2011 at 14:14 felisc says:

Yep
27/10/2011 at 14:22 DrGonzo says:

I want to justify myself, say how only recently I attended a gay wedding. How I spent my childhood having racist jokes made against me. But that just makes me sound like a Daily Mail reader ‘oh some of my best friends are black!’

27/10/2011 at 14:09 ynamite says:

Uhm, Sam Didier sucks as a singer, songwriter and his band blows too. He should go back to drawing characters and environments and/or whatever else he does at Blizzard.

I understand how somebody may feel offended by this, but I say, don’t take it seriously. You should feel pity, for them, if aynthing.

27/10/2011 at 14:11 Simon Hawthorne says:

The funny thing about the games industry being immature is that it’s generally a reflection of society. Gaming is the most interactive medium so it’s harder to prevent immature attitudes (I’m thinking particularly of multiplayer games). If people weren’t so immature then gaming would be more mature.

People don’t like to think that they’re immature but it seems a lot of people will act mature when given the chance in an anonymised setting.

Of course, that doesn’t justify Blizzard promoting this kind of crap. Quite frankly it’s bizzare.

27/10/2011 at 14:11 JoWoo says:

Even if this could somehow be construed as not homophobic, it isn’t exactly proof that the industry is populated by intelligent, well-disposed people is it?

Seems to have been a pretty good day for white male stupidity all in all.

27/10/2011 at 14:14 bleeters says:

Yeah, it was utterly appalling. Not so much that a loud mouthed idiot ranted and swore, but that they went ahead and put him on stage. Disgusting. But then, this is the same event where players turning up in alliance cosplay outfits got beaten up for it, so I guess they’re giving people what they want.

And people wonder why I don’t play WoW anymore.

27/10/2011 at 15:19 Nim says:

You are taking ~11 million people and packing them together into one negative stereotype.

Also that attack. Read about it. There were two young possibly intoxicated ill-parented males with clearly limited thinking capacity who shouted obscenities and try to pull a woman’s lanyard from her which caused her pain as she was leaving the event together with her husband. While unfortunate the incident has taken sensationalist proportions and become something Alliance players like to bring up to illustrate Horde favoritism at Blizzcon. However, no alliance players really got beaten up due to their costumes or in-game affiliation. THAT would have made front-page news in the mainstream media, believe me.

27/10/2011 at 14:14 gr0undzer0 says:

I’m not saying its not offencive to people out there but I am saying Who gives a F___ if it is? D___ nanny state.

27/10/2011 at 15:27 Jumwa says:

RPS is a government run gaming website?! Down with the nanny state! Shut RPS down!

27/10/2011 at 14:15 Valvarexart says:

I thought it was a commonly known fact that all alliance players are faggots. That’s an instrument, for your information.

27/10/2011 at 14:16 Mordsung says:

Louis CK did an excellent set explaining that in today’s world, the word faggot no longer applies to gay people. When we use the word, we’re not associating it with gay people anymore. Or, at least, someone like me is not. I’d never call a gay guy a faggot unless he was actually being a faggot.

Louis CK also has similar opinions on the word nigger and cunt. We just don’t use these words anymore like they were originally used. I’ve not used nigger as a negative word in forever, I use it as a term of endearment to my friends and we’re all white as sheets.

Like when someone says “I got gyped” do you think they know that’s technically a racial slur against gypsies? No, it’s become part of our vocabulary and it has lost it’s racial meaning.

Similarly, faggot has lost it’s homophobic meaning. Faggot has taken on such a definition of it’s own that I can’t even really define what it means. Faggot means faggot. It doesn’t mean gay, it doesn’t even mean “being a pussy”, it means faggot (though usually I just use fag).

27/10/2011 at 14:21 LaunchJC says:

You……what?

EDIT: Sent too damn soon, I agree with you on the meaning of some words changing, certainly I know less people who are offended by Cunt then you’d expect, but the N word? Not so with you on that one.
27/10/2011 at 14:22 The Hammer says:

Just because you don’t hear it said offensively in your social environment, doesn’t mean thousands upon thousands of people don’t hear the same thing, directed with great hatred at them, every week.

Blizzard is an international company. To many, the word “faggot” – and the other words you use – are still thrown at people around the world. Homophobia and racism have not gone away, even if laws have been put in place to discourage them.

The civil rights movement et al did not kill discrimination.
27/10/2011 at 14:24 Mordsung says:

The Hammer,
If someone uses any word with malicious intent, that’s bad.
The word itself isn’t bad, it’s the intent of the word that is bad.

I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.
27/10/2011 at 14:25 Rodafowa says:

You’re right! Of course! That word’s lost its meaning. It’s just a complete, remarkable coincidence that it’s the word that knuckledragging arseholes always choose to describe gay people. Monkeys and typewriters, eh?
27/10/2011 at 14:26 The Hammer says:

If the word originally derives from racial or homophobic abuse, then why use it? Are you reappropriating it? You’ve already said that you and your friends are ‘white as sheets’, so…?
27/10/2011 at 14:27 John Walker says:

Hear that gay people – you’re not to find it offensive any more.
27/10/2011 at 14:28 bleeters says:

You’ll forgive me if I’m skeptical that a man who punctuates his speaks with “fuck” and spits out wonders like “fuck off, you fucking emo cocksucker” like he’s being paid by the swear word is going to appreciate the linguistic independence of “faggot”as a term.
27/10/2011 at 14:29 Mordsung says:

Rodafowa
There are lots of people who use the word “Liberal” as an insult, does it make it one?
There are lots of people who use the word “gay” itself as an insult, does that means we can’t use the word gay?
Nearly any benign word can be used as an insult, doesn’t it then follow that a previous harmful word can become benign?

Again, I point out “gyped”. That’s a racial insult, but when was the last time someone got insulted by the word gyped?
27/10/2011 at 14:31 Will Tomas says:

Except it hasn’t, they haven’t, and it doesn’t just work like that. You may use the words in that context and not mean anything by it, and to your friends who get that, then there’s not necessarily a problem for them. Unless you were with someone who has had those insults thrown at them because they were black, gay, or different in any way from the white male mainstream and it has all the associations of vile hatred they’ve experienced. Cos that’s what you’re playing with.

Words have power. Don’t forget that. Overuse of these words by you desensitises you to them but it doesn’t do that to anyone but you. To someone not desensitised, who has been verbally abused in that way, it is a big deal. And it should be the sort of offense we should worry about.

Hate speech – which is how those words are used by some people, even though that’s not how you’re using it – is a crime. The reason why is because of the way language like that has been used to justify hate attacks on people.

Blizzard are idiots for giving this band a platform, the band are utter knobs for acting in this way. What Blizzard did is put this stuff on a public forum. What bad-taste jokes you make with your mates doesn’t bother me but Blizzard putting this stuff on display definitely does.
27/10/2011 at 14:33 Hanban says:

@Mordsung

“I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.”

So you do not at all find the word context sensitive then? While you make a difference in the intent of the word when it is spoken, do you not care about the subjective experience of the word to others?

Someone who isn’t straight will have had the pleasure of experiencing the word with its malicious intent. Thus their experience of the word will have negative connotations for obvious reasons. In a context with someone who has this experience of the word, will you not modify your vocabulary? Or will use insist on using the word despite of the emotions it can conjure in the other person?
27/10/2011 at 14:36 Mordsung says:

Hanban
I care about how I intend to use the word.

If I incidentally offend someone, I will calmly explain to them that when I use the word I do not use it in an insulting way.

If they continue to be insulted after I have calmly explained this to them, that ceases being my problem.

Words only have as much power as you choose to give them.

I don’t find any word on earth offensive, I don’t ask anything of anyone else that I don’t already ask of myself. If I found at least one word inherently offensive, then maybe I could see where people are coming from, but I don’t.

I find context offensive, not words themselves.

I am only holding myself to the same standard I hold everyone else.
27/10/2011 at 14:37 The Hammer says:

“There are lots of people who use the word “Liberal” as an insult, does it make it one?”

The word ‘liberal’ did not start out as a word to strongly ridicule a minority, and ostracise them from society. Liberal is still an official word used by many political parties, organisations, and stances. It does not have a history of minority discrimination, and nor is it used today to discriminate. To make someone look like a clown? Yes. But never to actually discriminate based on gender, ethnicity, or sexuality.
27/10/2011 at 14:37 Rodafowa says:

Mordsung – Since you’re a fan of Louis CK, I’m assuming you’ve seen the poker scene from the first series of his TV show? I’m interested how that fits in with your idea that the word’s “lost its meaning”?

http://youtu.be/v-55wC5dEnc
27/10/2011 at 14:38 misterk says:

““I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.””

WHY NOT? Seriously if this word offends a lot of people, why not NOT use it? Its hardly a barrier to communication, is it? I just don’t understand why its so hard to discuss things in a manner that might not offend people.

You know whats even worse about this? At least if it was a racial slur, your friendship group might not contain anyone of said race, but its entirely possible you have a closeted friend who you use homophobic language in front of. And hey, maybe they know that you don’t mean it…. but mayve they don’t, and maybe you’re making their lives a little worse.

Because you don’t want to stop using a word. Congratu-fucking-lations.
27/10/2011 at 14:43 JackShandy says:

Well, the context here is a guy shouting “Kill yourself”. So I’m not sure this argument is totally relevant.

In the right context, yes, the word could be almost totally inoffensive. Louie CK did it with the utmost tact.
27/10/2011 at 14:47 Rodafowa says:

“Words only have the power you choose to give them.”

Or to put it another way, “I’m sorry that people shouted that word at you all through your schooldays and hearing it makes all those memories come flooding back, but if you won’t just pull yourself together get the fuck over years of trauma and self-loathing it that’s hardly my fault, is it?”

It’s Zen for “I can’t be bothered.”
27/10/2011 at 14:48 Mutak says:

Oh, a straight white guy thinks that gays and minorities are overreacting? I’m so surprised. :|

“I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.”

You are the one who does not appear to understand context. Context does not just refer to the conversation you are currently having. Context also takes into account to the history and culture surrounding that conversation as well.
27/10/2011 at 14:52 Mordsung says:

Rodafowa

The burning gays with witches explanation for the word faggot is actually false etymology. I used to also believe this was the origin of the word, but I was corrected by my English professor in University.

The actual origin of the word as an insult was originally aimed at women, specifically old women, and the insult began as “faggot gatherer” as in someone who gathers faggots, or kindling, as the original use of the word.

Eventually “faggot gatherer” became the equivalent of saying “effeminate” or “female like” and then eventually was shortened to just “faggot.”

Turns out wikipedia also has the listing of the proper definition.
Not sure where the story about burning gays with witches version came from originally, but it’s definitely not the origin of the word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)
27/10/2011 at 14:54 Rodafowa says:

The etymology of the word SO is not the fucking point of that sketch.
27/10/2011 at 14:58 henben says:

If you actually watch the bit in question, you’ll see the whole point of the joke is that when CK was a kid, he didn’t know “faggot” was to do with being gay. He’s *not* saying that “faggot” has lost its homophobic meaning, as you’ll see if you watch this bit of his TV show: http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2010/06/louis-ck-extraordinary-ten-minute

Louis CK is a very smart and thoughtful comic. Obviously too subtle for some.
27/10/2011 at 15:04 Mordsung says:

Mutak
Can you point out the part where I said gays and minorities are over reacting?

You’ll notice everyone in this thread who is over reacting is about as white and straight as I am.

Maybe it’s just a uniquely Canadian take on the situation, but even among my black and gay friends, I can use both the word nigger and faggot without problem, because they know that I don’t have any issue with their colour or sexuality. I mean, shit, when I lived in Windsor (Ontario, Canada) I was introduced to a black kid who informed me his name was “Nigger Mike” or “Slave Mike”. I have two friends named Richard, one is white, the other black. White Rich is just ‘Rich’, black Rich is “Ethnic Rich”. I have a Mexican friend named Lee who’s nickname is “Mexican’t” and they all have no issue with calling me or my white friends Blanco, Honkey, Cracker, Kwai-Lo etc

Hell, my drug dealer goes by “Chinese Phil” and he’s fucking Vietnamese and uses a picture of a plate of fried rice as his MSN messenger avatar.

I mean, shit, is a single person complaining about the rant on this site actually gay?

Again, maybe it’s a Canadian thing. We’re not so uptight about this stuff.

Edit: Thinking about it further, it likely is a Canadian thing. We have the most ethnically diverse population of any country in the world. Here, you grow up side by side with every race imaginable and if you’re under 30, the idea of being racist or homophobic in Ontario is foreign to you because you’ve been surrounded by kids of every colour and kids who had two moms or two dads since you were a little kid. Racist slurs became a joke very early, because we found racism so hilarious to begin with. Just the idea that you hate someone because they happen to have a different melanin production gene than you doesn’t make any sense when your kindergarten girlfriend was Chinese, or Somalian, or Guatemalan.

Racial slurs just became comical to us, all of us, regardless of race, because we didn’t experience true racism until we got older and met people from outside Ontario.
27/10/2011 at 15:11 Khann says:

I’ve been beaten to a chorus of “dirty hippy” before. Being that I am, should I get up in arms any time somebody uses the word “hippy” as a derogatory term?
27/10/2011 at 15:59 empfeix says:

Mordsung you might be right, its the same here in St. Catharines
27/10/2011 at 16:25 JackShandy says:

“Maybe it’s just a uniquely Canadian take on the situation, but even among my black and gay friends, I can use both the word nigger and faggot without problem, because they know that I don’t have any issue with their colour or sexuality”

Hey dude, I’m super glad for you. What does that have to do with a guy yelling that stuff out to an audience of randoms?
27/10/2011 at 18:51 Mutak says:

It might be a distinctly Canadian reaction to believe racial and anti-gay slurs are no big deal, but it’s more likely the same old straight white male privilege. It’s easy, safe, and self-serving for you to dismiss the importance of these things.

As for your friends: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#backup
27/10/2011 at 19:47 rayne117 says:

Hear this John: Why should I care if you get offended?
27/10/2011 at 20:34 Tyshalle says:

Let me ask all you uptight, oversensitive people this: Do you really think that those of us who aren’t offended by the use of these words are anti-gay? Do you think that we do not support equal rights for all people? Do you think we look down upon homosexuals?

Or what, we’re straight and white and male, so we can’t empathize? Hey. Fuck you. I was picked on and ridiculed for being gay every single day I was in high school. Okay, so I wasn’t actually gay, but so what?

Words have no power without context except to the uptight, pretentious and oversensitive among us.

The same goes for this sexism bullshit in Arkham City. I mean, really? Catwoman is hot, and so the game is immorally sexist? I played the game through to completion and never once got any hints of sexism in that game.

I don’t think the immaturity belongs to vulgar people like me. I think it belongs to people way too pretentious and oversensitive to let stuff like this just roll past them. When I finally watched the video, I was like: “Yeah, this guy is a dickhead.” But the fact that JW honed in and twisted the intentions of this dude around to be: “I hate gay people and want them to kill themselves” is so ridiculous, it only shows you guys to be hypersensitive and way too insecure.
28/10/2011 at 00:10 jrodman says:

I don’t think you’re anti-gay. I think you’re being stupid for no reason.

You’re insisting that it’s perfectly fine to use ‘faggot’ all day long and that there’s no problem with it because you don’t mean it with invective, totally skipping over the reinforcement of gay == bad, and in fact denying that it could ever possibly happen, when you’re of course doing it all day.

That’s dumb, insensitive, and supporting homophobia, whether or not you like it.

If you don’t like it, don’t do it.
28/10/2011 at 00:23 FunkyBadger3 says:

Mordsung: good for you, but I do advise you not to take you enlightened attitude out with you onto the streets or bars of, say, Hackney…
28/10/2011 at 07:17 Dorchadas says:

This may be the most incredibly ignorant thing I’ve read in literally…minutes. I did read the earlier part of the thread, after all.

So, you, a guy who is “whiter than [a] sheet,” gets to tell historically-discriminated minority groups what they’re allowed to be offended by? And you don’t see the problem with that?
28/10/2011 at 17:24 Tyshalle says:

I don’t see a problem with telling someone that if they’re offended by something that is very clearly not meant to be offensive, then that’s on them. It doesn’t matter whether it’s easy or hard not to use a certain word, the fact of the matter is, it doesn’t make me an asshole for choosing to use a word just because someone else is offended by it. Sure, you’re allowed to think I’m a self-righteous dickhead, or this incredibly stupid “middle class white male syndrome” nonsense being thrown around, but likewise I’m allowed to think you’re a hypersensitive, pretentious douchebag for judging me for it. This can go around and around.

Ultimately, this is about whether or not I’m responsible for coddling your hypersensitive feelings. Maybe I’m just staunchly libertarian on this issue, but I believe that my intentions matter more than your pretentious sensibilities, and so I will continue to go around and use whatever words I want to.

That said, I do think that intentions matter. And so when someone calls me a ‘nigger’ for missing my shot in Team Fortress 2, I do tend to assume that they’re a racist, no good redneck. On the other hand, when I make a bad pun and my girlfriend tells me not to be a gaylord, my gut instinct isn’t to assume she is condemning homosexuality and letting me know that if I ever allow a dick into my mouth or asshole, I will deserve to go to hell for all of eternity.

But then this goes back to my earlier point, which is, if you really want to stop people from using those words, we really need to get scarier gay people.
29/10/2011 at 03:02 ffordesoon says:

@ the OP:

Real quickly, as I’ve got some Dark Souls to play:

You don’t understand the Louis CK bit. He’s not saying that it’s okay to use “faggot” at all. He’s saying that the intent behind his use of the word (or “nigger”, or “cunt”) is not malicious in the way someone homophobic intends it, that he finds such words interesting as words, and that he feels somewhat guilty when he uses the words to himself, because even though he enjoys saying the words and doesn’t mean them in an offensive way, he knows others will find his use of the words offensive. He’s saying that he grew up believing the word “faggot” just meant “annoying”, and that he personally would not call a gay man pleasuring another gay man a “faggot” unless that gay man was being a jerk to him. He’s not saying it’s okay for you to use the word because “the meaning has changed”; he’s venting his own guilty thoughts on the word in a comedic way.

And, look, I have a friend who uses “faggot” regularly, and he’s not a homophobe by any means. He brings up the South Park example. He’s fully behind gay marriage, would only be flattered if a gay man propositioned him, and grew up using it simply as code for “annoying”. I understand how you can use the word without any hateful intent towards gay people.

But if a gay man was walking by while my friend and I were talking, and my friend used the word, the guy might yell at us for being homophobes, and I wouldn’t blame him for thinking so. I’ve told my friend that it makes me slightly uncomfortable that he uses the word, because even though I understand his intent, people who don’t know him well won’t understand. And he’s been receptive, and I’m working with him on it. I fully expect someone who posts after me to call my friend a homophobe despite that explanation, and I won’t blame them for thinking so. Because it is fundamentally ridiculous to use racist and sexist slurs and expect people to instinctively understand that you don’t “mean it that way”. If we all had telepathic powers, things would be different. But we don’t.

So, basically, if you’re using “faggot” and “nigger” and “cunt” on a regular basis, and you are not currently taking part in a lecture series about racism or sexism or something, you need to stop using those words. The person who uses a racial slur is not the one who’s allowed to say whether it’s offensive; it’s the person who hears the word who decides that, and you do not have the right to tell them it isn’t offensive. Because communication is two-way, not one-way.

Oh, and by the way, anyone can potentially find a word offensive, or not. Just because I’m not gay doesn’t mean I don’t find “faggot” offensive, and just because someone is gay and doesn’t find it offensive doesn’t give you a free pass with me. I’m not offended on behalf of anyone else; I myself am offended. People in threads about sexism who accuse other people of “white-knighting” don’t get that, but it’s true. I’m offended by the word “nigger” whether or not a black person is. I’m offended not because I’m “sticking up for black folks”, but because it’s a dehumanizing slur with an awful history. Black folks can take care of themselves. I’m telling you how I feel.

27/10/2011 at 14:17 Malfious says:

I want to apologise for posting this, I posed before thinking. Haven’t checked this post for a few hours.

I meant it as a reply to the cursing of the alliance as quoted on the actual post, not the homephobia part, I didnt actually watch the video.

This probably sounds like a cheap plea to get out of this mess, take it as you will.

Again, I apologise & regret posting this, I wasn’t thinking at the time

27/10/2011 at 14:20 misterk says:

I’m not sure he agrees with you (and way to pick a famous homosexual for your go to quote!)
27/10/2011 at 14:20 The Hammer says:

I’ll remember that the next time a Stephen Gately article pops up.

I’m also pretty sure Mr. Fry would not endorse that particular view being used in this context…
27/10/2011 at 16:02 coldvvvave says:

- I’m also pretty sure Mr. Fry would not endorse that particular view being used in this context…

I have no idea who this guy is, but that just nakes him a hypocrite, right?
27/10/2011 at 17:13 Shrike says:

This is a misinterpretation of his point. The point he was making is that you can’t expect someone to stop doing something solely because it offends you. You have to demonstrate that it causes actual harm in the world. Stephen would probably feel that this kind of language does cause real harm in the world.

If you watch the uncensored video it becomes apparent that this man makes use of many different synonyms for homosexuality, and they are all intended as insults. It would be foolish to think that this language doesn’t cause harm in the world when adopted across an entire sub-culture. I’m not sure what I think of Blizzard using the clip, since they did try to cut the worst of it out, but it certainly wasn’t wise.
28/10/2011 at 00:35 Malfious says:

Edited my post, was in bad taste, please read my apology, wasn’t thinking at the time

27/10/2011 at 14:17 Valvarexart says:

And to be honest, I really love RPS, but this article does feel Fox-news-y.

27/10/2011 at 14:44 Cruyelo says:

Very much agreed.

This article is also lacking Blizzard’s answer to the whole controversy. Not pleased with this article.
27/10/2011 at 14:44 pipman3000 says:

no fox newsy would be giving him a thumbs up and going out with a few heterosexual lifemates to lynch some queers

fox news is the fascist one remember
27/10/2011 at 15:17 Kaira- says:

RPS asking both sides of the story? Don’t make me laugh.
27/10/2011 at 15:20 The Hammer says:

“Very much agreed.

This article is also lacking Blizzard’s answer to the whole controversy. Not pleased with this article.”

Blizzard haven’t give an answer beyond “Sorry if you were offended by the joke.”

It’s not clear what part of the “joke” they’re saying sorry for.
27/10/2011 at 15:40 Cruyelo says:

So if their apology isn’t thorough enough it’s not worth being reported? They apologized, are we supposed to ask them to try again with a different apology?
And they DID specify that they were talking about the whole Corpsegrinder bit.
27/10/2011 at 22:06 Woden says:

Kaira- “RPS asking both sides of the story? Don’t make me laugh.”

You seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding about what journalism is, and what it isn’t. RPS does not purport to be engaging in journalism, so they are under no obligation to adhere to journalistic standards such as getting both sides of a story. They write opinions, which we come here to read with the understanding that they are opinions.

Fox News, on the other hand, DOES purport to be engaging in journalism, which is why people who know that there used to be such a thing as “journalistic standards” mutter bitterly about Fox News’ total lack of same.

So, let’s review! Opinion presented as opinion: fine and dandy! Opinion presented as fact (especially when accompanied by fervent assurances that The Real True Truth is involved): not cool at all, and kind of a huge problem actually!
27/10/2011 at 22:14 TillEulenspiegel says:

so they are under no obligation to adhere to journalistic standards such as getting both sides of a story.

There are no “sides” here. There are a bunch of facts. (Mindlessly transcribing statements from “both sides” of a given issue is one of the worst afflictions of modern journalism. That’s pure unfiltered noise with no concern for the truth, laziness masquerading as objectivity.)

As far as I can tell, everything written here is accurate. There’s no dispute. There are some unanswered questions (who at Blizzard decided to show the clip, and why?), but that’s really another story. This is perfectly acceptable journalism. You’re under no ethical obligation to speak with everyone involved or repeat what they say, not when the facts are clear.
27/10/2011 at 22:16 Joof says:

“no fox newsy would be giving him a thumbs up and going out with a few heterosexual lifemates to lynch some queers

fox news is the fascist one remember”

Fascist: derived from the Latin word fascis.

fascis (genitive fascis); m 1. A fagot, fascine; bundle,
Descendants: English: fascism, faggot

I don’t know where to go from here, but I’m sure there’s a joke somewhere.
27/10/2011 at 22:23 alundra says:

@TillEulenspiegel
“This is perfectly acceptable journalism.”

It’s only acceptable because it’s trying to be politically correct, if you take that out all that is left is a sad and biased article full of personal opinions.

Journalism, it ain’t.

27/10/2011 at 14:17 Okami says:

Since it would be to much work to deal with each and every annoyed comment written by each and every entitled, white male (there are going to be dozens if not hundreds of them here in no time, this beeing the internet) along the lines of “get over it”, “there are worse things”, “this isn’t real homophobia”, “this isn’t real sexism” I’ll just post this link and leave it at that:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

EDIT: Boy, the block button really comes in handy today.

27/10/2011 at 14:31 Lakshmi says:

I posted that earlier. People didn’t seem to think it counted….
27/10/2011 at 14:42 Sirbolt says:

Is the “white” bit really that important? Are white people more homophobic in some way?
27/10/2011 at 14:49 Lakshmi says:

the white bit is important because in general, white people have not met the same level of prejudice as non-whites, or in this instance, the GLBT community.
27/10/2011 at 14:50 TillEulenspiegel says:

Is the “white” bit really that important? Are white people more homophobic in some way?

I love this shit.

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#innocent
27/10/2011 at 14:51 JackShandy says:

This calls for a survey.
27/10/2011 at 15:01 Sirbolt says:

@TillEulenspiegel

I didn’t find any of that related to the point i was trying to make, but do carry on if it amuses you so.
27/10/2011 at 15:11 Lakshmi says:

@Sirbolt

And what I said?
27/10/2011 at 17:04 Sirbolt says:

@Lakshmi I understand the point that Okami was trying to make, i just think that fighting what people find to be prejudicial words with more prejudicial words kind of takes the edge off the argument.

27/10/2011 at 14:17 Thoric says:

Now, i’m not a fan of Blizzard’s work since they became Activision-Blizzard, but this just… doesn’t rustle my jimmies. The butt of the joke is that the Cannibal Corpse frontman ís a WoW and Horde fanatic, and since he’s the vocalist of a death metal band he expresses that through a long stream of insults and accusations of homosexuality.

It’s a lame joke, but it’s just that really. It’s not a serious anti-gay or hate message. I play Alliance and i don’t now live in mortal fear of Corpsegrinder finding me and bashing my skull in (partly because i play a dwarf and he seems to be ok with them).

Also, it’s hilarous that the whole point is to get rid of segregation, and yet there is a publication called “GayGamer”. And you know something called “StraightGamer” would have them frothing at the mouth.

27/10/2011 at 14:19 Okami says:

Every gaming website is “Straight Gamer”
27/10/2011 at 14:28 MiniMatt says:

And he’s free to do that. But for Blizz to promote, not necessarily the language, but promote it in a “hey look at the kind of people we got who play our game – they’re cool!” strikes at the very least of braindead PR.

I only have imaginary kids for the sake of this argument so my armchair feigned offense is admittedly pretty weak – but I don’t want my (imaginary) kids playing WoW with the sort of person who uses “cocksucking faggot” as punctuation.
27/10/2011 at 16:22 marlin says:

@MiniMatt;

I DO have children, and while as an adult I have no particular problems with adults swearing in conversation with each other, I would have a massive problem with them being exposed to this sort of language in a game.
But, hey, maybe that’s just me…

27/10/2011 at 14:18 Pamplemousse says:

You can tell this is a Walker story without even reading it.

27/10/2011 at 14:18 MiniMatt says:

I’m white, middle class, heterosexual male. As such I’m substantially unqualified to comment on whether something is particularly offensive to most groups.

The language in combination with it’s vitriol is something which exists on the internet. To promote it however, to show it on a big screen and say “hey, look at our players, how cool they are!” – well in short that means I don’t want my (imaginary) kids playing that game; in the same way I don’t particularly want my (still imaginary) kids playing battlefield (partly because of game content, partly because “cocksucking faggot” is not so much an insult but punctuation on shooters).

27/10/2011 at 14:20 Rond says:

How is calling random people ‘faggots’ homophobic? Also,

Why show the clip? Why invite a band on stage with such an attitude?

Why not? Are you phobic of that? Would you rather ban darker humour worldwide? If you’re not into that sort of thing it isn’t necessarily wrong. They’re not performing at a pride parade, for crying out loud.

27/10/2011 at 14:41 andrewdoull says:

How is calling random people faggots not homophobic?
27/10/2011 at 14:46 pipman3000 says:

how is calling random people niggers racist?
27/10/2011 at 14:47 pipman3000 says:

how is calling random people stupid whores sexist
27/10/2011 at 14:49 pipman3000 says:

how is calling someone a uhhh… help me out here people i’m running out of -isms
27/10/2011 at 15:06 JackShandy says:

Looks like RPS’s dark prejudice is exposed. They’re dirty homophobe-ophobes, the lot of them.
27/10/2011 at 19:52 rayne117 says:

Jack, you remind me of everything bad about Kotaku.
28/10/2011 at 02:34 JackShandy says:

Woah, rayne, don’t just hit and run – what am I doing wrong? I’m open to criticism.

Edit: Ok, read your other posts, I’ve decided I’m totally fine with being insulted by you.

27/10/2011 at 14:21 Gundato says:

Wow…

Look, I am not going to bother saying “Guys, South Park is not a good metric for what is appropriate” (it’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia on the other hand :p) but I am just going to take the easy route.

You think those words no longer have anything to do with hatespeech toward homosexuals: Go to a gay pride rally (or just a gay bar) and start screaming that at the top of your lungs. I mean, if the word has lost all of its hatespeech origins then you should feel perfectly comfortable doing that, right?

That being said, the reactions in this comments thread probably mean Blizzard accomplished their goals. Is it going to make people think gaming is at all mature? Nope. But clearly, Blizzard knows how to cater to their demographic.

27/10/2011 at 14:29 warcode says:

I would say this is nothing more than an enthusiastic world of warcraft player expressing himself using the language he is familiar with. He is putting no actual thought into the words and is not specifically targeting anyone. Words without intent and meaning, without context, is nothing.

To put it simply he is flailing a hammer around, but he isn’t actually trying to hit someone with it on purpose.
27/10/2011 at 14:33 Gundato says:

Do you have any racist parents/grandparents? It is quite easy to say “Oh, they were raised in a different era” or “She is so senile that she doesn’t understand that it is inappropriate to say that ‘all the jews stole her cookies’” but that still doesn’t make it appropriate.

If you want to exonerate the “band”, whatever. They seem like idiots. But BLIZZARD should have known better.
27/10/2011 at 14:57 andrewdoull says:

I love this crazy ‘words without intent’ argument. Pray tell me, how do you mystically divine someone’s intent without perhaps determining it from the words they use?
27/10/2011 at 15:04 FCA says:

To put it simply he is flailing a hammer around, but he isn’t actually trying to hit someone with it on purpose.
But if he hits someone, shouldn’t you call him out for flailing a hammer around at all?
It might make the offense slightly less worse, but it still is an offense.

As for all the “don’t be such a whiner, get over it/it’s a general slur nowadays” crowd:
Gay people were being put to death for being gay not too long ago (in fact, this is happening in some places right now), even in what we call “civilized” countries. Even now, teenagers (or adults) are being mobbed, to the point of contemplating/commiting suicide, for being perceived as gay, faggot or being too feminine/masculine (depending on sex). One common element is calling them names like “faggot” or “gay” all the time.

How do you think it feels if someone uses a slur, originally specific to them, which they were abused by a lot, as a slur against a wider group of people?
“No it’s not offensive anymore, I just use the word faggot/gay as a general way of identifying people I hate” doesn’t really sound good for people who identify themselves as gay, right?
27/10/2011 at 15:05 Gundato says:

In this context, at least, the argument is usually “Haven’t you seen a couple of 10-13 year old boys calling everything ‘gay’? They don’t understand what they are saying”.

And that may actually be true, for very young children. They could just have really horrible influences (like this garbage from Blizzcon :p).

But when you are a grown adult, you should know better. I don’t think it is even possible to reach adulthood without knowing that those terms, at least originally, were hatespeech against homosexuals.

27/10/2011 at 14:21 Dawngreeter says:

I love you and your periodic “this shit ain’t cool” posts, John, but I do believe you’re off base here. I won’t go into why Blizzard played this, it’s certainly strange. But it isn’t homophobic. It’s retarded, of the needlessly loud and unintentionally comical variety. Just like Cannibal Corpse.

Any attempts to comment on this as an affront to decency, morality, social more and so forth are exactly the same as those funny United Statesian christian folk who picket Marylin Manson concerts. Aside the absurdity of it all, you’re confusing an act with reality. None of these people really mean what they’re saying or singing, they are just putting on a show. Same as wrestlers, and you don’t go booing The Undertaker for insulting Rowdy Ruddy Piper (or whoever’s still doing that sort of thing these days). And you certainly wouldn’t think THE CANYON OF DEATH roller coaster ride invites children to commit suicide on it.

This is amusing to teenagers because it depicts unacceptable behavior. Nothing more.

27/10/2011 at 14:51 ThinkAndGrowWitcher says:

+1 (and a gold star) for the comment above (Dawngreeter)…

A context has been applied here that never seemed to really exist in the first place. And if it was, it’s being unnecessarily amplified to ‘shock horror!’ proportions.

What say we leave the incorrect politically-correct, scare-mongered sound-bites to the world’s main news providers and skip gayly along to more games coverage?
27/10/2011 at 15:09 JackShandy says:

That’s a totally disingenuous comparison. Here’s a similie: It’s like saying “They’re only yelling sexist comments because the system is against sexism! Fuck the system!”
27/10/2011 at 15:23 lasikbear says:

Not sure throwing in “it’s retarded” is a good way to back up any sort of argument about how is acceptable to use hate speech in a jovial manner, but of course, you were just saying that ironically to impress teenagers?
27/10/2011 at 15:30 Dawngreeter says:

I’d answer, but I honestly don’t have the time. Not, like, dude, I’ve no time for the likes of you. But, like, dude, I gotta run somewhere where I don’t have a computer handy.

So instead of answering, I’ll invite you all to watch a Lisa Lampinelli or Sarah Silverman standup. Or any of the Comedy Central roasts.
27/10/2011 at 15:48 Apples says:

Frankly the idea of watching Sarah Silverman is more offensive to me than half of the things in this comment thread. She’s a comedy void.
27/10/2011 at 17:57 Keirley says:

Except that it’s not, is it Dawngreeter? As far as I’m aware John isn’t arguing that this person shouldn’t have the right to say the awful things he said. The article is questioning why Blizzard thought it was a good idea to associate themselves with someone like that, and why they thought it was at all appropriate to show him saying those kinds of things. One can make any argument one likes about how people shouldn’t get offended by such things, or how we shouldn’t care if someone gets offended, and though I disagree it would certainly be a legitimate position to take, but I would find it very hard to argue that the inclusion of this kind of thing in an event put on by a big player in the industry DOESN’T point to something extremely problematic about the culture of videogames.
27/10/2011 at 20:17 Dawngreeter says:

I won’t argue in the slightest that Blizzard showing this off is anything but extremely strange. I can’t fathom what on earth possessed them to do this. And it’s not the good kind of strange, it’s “you people are fucking morons” kind of strange.

But John, whom I greatly respect for other articles of this kind and with which I always agreed, explicitly points to the statement about Alliance needing to kill themselves as something horrible. It isn’t. It is exactly on the same level as all the songs of his kindergore band. Which is, in turn, on the same level as smack talk in almost any MMO or competitive PvP game. And the man is not seriously suggesting people should kill themselves. He is trying to be all aggro metal grim evil something. And it is mostly pathetic and wholly laughable, as John correctly pointed out.

Bonus pathetic points for wearing his band’s shirt. What kind of a loser asshole does that?

27/10/2011 at 14:24 TJ says:

Agreed, this is not a homophobic rant; it’s just a (vaguely amusing if you squint and are not of a sensitive disposition) rant.

27/10/2011 at 14:25 Sirbolt says:

Haha, for fucks sake, context people, context. Corpsegrinder from Cannibal Corpse, the band with such hits as “I cum blood” “Necropedophile” and “Fucked with a knife” rants about Alliance players calling them variants of “u r gay” and it’s the “u r gay”-part and not the “Fucked with a knife”-bit that’s upsetting? I see no real malice towards gay people here.

27/10/2011 at 14:27 catmorbid says:

Some people could practice their sense of humor a bit instead of being whiny little bitches too sensitive about their sexuality. Being politically correct is what ruins everything – fun mostly. Being politically correct is an invention made by people inherently insecure. Get over it. Live a little – laugh a little.

27/10/2011 at 14:35 Muzman says:

It’s not actually. The political correctness boogieman was created in Bush snr.’s government to create a new enemy for Western conservatism to fight after the collapse of communism.
27/10/2011 at 14:35 John Walker says:

I’m guessing you’re… a gay Caribbean midget, right? I’m right, right?
27/10/2011 at 19:56 rayne117 says:

“You have to have experienced the HORRORS of being called a faggot while you’re beaten to really know what it’s bad to say it.”

No. No I don’t.

And you know why?

Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me).

Beating a person is wrong (whether they are gay or not), calling them a faggot isn’t.
28/10/2011 at 12:32 Beva says:

“Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me).

Beating a person is wrong (whether they are gay or not), calling them a faggot isn’t.”

That’s only because you are a pedophile.

Obviously, most of your kind aren’t as word resistant as you are, and that is why your parents only had actual legal sex once, to create you and make you better (rest of the time they just kept on doing the old sex-with-kids-family-tradition). This is also why you are so good at pedophilia and know exactly how and when to strike and it is also why your basement is littered with baby corpses and posters of young Corey Haim.

Power to you man.

27/10/2011 at 14:32 Muzman says:

The thing is, it’s Cannibal Corpse. On the spectrum between serious music and self parody they are only slightly to the left of Gwar, not that many metalheads realise it. Their knuckleheadedness is part of the schtick. Not really worth worrying about.

27/10/2011 at 19:42 Dozer says:

So… why did Blizzard get them to perform at the expo? It’s like they gave each attendee a little doggy bag filled with little doggy shit.
27/10/2011 at 23:49 Muzman says:

It’s the lounge room principle. Quite a lot of unsavory stuff is perfectly acceptable when you are with your pals at home or watching a standup comic or something. Even flagrantly offensive and revolting stuff is fine with everyone in that setting. Throw it out in public it becomes a different matter. That’s where Blizzard were perhaps unwise. But these guys aren’t really out to hurt anyone or spread the ills that these terms might spring from. They’re just being expressively dense.

27/10/2011 at 14:32 Toshley says:

When did RPS and it’s community become so spineless?

I feel I should say, I’m gay, and I don’t find the word faggot offensive in the slightest, nor do my gay friends find it offensive. We use the word all the time, our straight friends use it all the time, and we don’t give a shit, it’s a goddamn word, it doesn’t mean shit.

Jesus Christ.

27/10/2011 at 14:49 Apples says:

This is an absolutely amazing thing to say. Everybody go home, words no longer have any meaning, there is no point hearing or reading them because they will just be a strange mishmash of sounds and shapes. Of course words mean things, you dolt, including “faggot”.
27/10/2011 at 14:49 actionthom says:

Well I guess you and your anecdotal experience trump actually looking into it then
27/10/2011 at 15:34 JackShandy says:

Ok, everybody, go back to your homes and businesses! We now know the LGBT Community’s stance on the issue, this is all totally fine!

27/10/2011 at 14:39 Valyr says:

Talk about a fucking storm in a teacup.
As someone who has supported the LGBT campaign for equality in the past this whole debacle pisses me off.

No, not what Blizzard did; but the constant whining from a minority of people in the LGBT community about things like this; which only does their cause more harm than good because it just serves to piss other people off who are sick of listening to it.

Yes, Corpsegrinder’s interview clip where he rants and raves about the Alliance was a silly inclusion in a pseudo-family-friendly show but as usual people are blowing things way out of proportion and getting their knickers in a twist over something that really isn’t THAT important.

I don’t know what Corpsegrinder’s sexual orientation is, nor do I care, but I very much doubt that his supposed homophobic slurs were actually intended to be anti-homosexual. As far as I could tell they just represented a weird fervor for the Horde in WoW expressed as a hatred of the ‘wussy’ Alliance; and in fact that’s what I took the supposedly homophobic slurs to mean.

Yes, it’s unfortunate that in the modern world many people use negative terms associated with homosexuality to describe something as being weak and that’s something that should be changed over time, no doubt; but to get this worked up over the ranting of a man who makes a living screaming obscenities and tongue-in-cheek bad taste into a microphone is just sad and missing the point.
It shows nothing more than a lack of imagination or creativity in his choice of swear words, at worst; not an anti-homosexual agenda.
8 capped threads in the WoW forums demanding apologies and reparations from Blizzard. Sad.

And then there’s the ridiculous question of “Why aren’t there any LGBT characters in WoW?”
Why the hell should there be? Why does there need to be? Who’s to say there aren’t already?

The sexuality of characters in a setting like WoW is not at all relevant to 99% of what goes on in the game, in the story or in the character backgrounds. Half the characters in the story could be gay and we might never know because it doesn’t MATTER, so why the hell do people feel that the LGBT community needs to be ‘represented’ in the game?
If this same vocal minority in the LGBT community was less focused on the ‘us vs them’ approach then their campaign might reach its goals of equality a lot sooner by not making mountains out of molehills and getting on other people’s nerves all the time.

All this alongside the constant whining from over-sensitive WoW players about Blizzard’s Horde Favouritism.
Seriously? They actually care that Blizzard appears to favour the Horde in their cheesy event battlecries and songs?
As a WoW player I play both factions (since that is very possible these days, moreso than ever before) and enjoy both. I don’t see why anyone should get so worked up about which faction Blizzard likes to shout about at events.

It makes sense that when Blizzard pushes the “For the Horde!” stuff, some players are bound to go the opposite way and cling to their Alliance loyalty (as pointless as such loyalty is), but to actually bitch and complain about it as much as people have been doing is really, really pathetic.

I’ve been playing WoW for years while living a productive, successful life outside of the game so it irks me mildly when people make generalised statements about WoW players needing to ‘get a life’, but I don’t go making a big deal out of it because it really doesn’t matter that much.
If anything, the ones who need to get a life are the ones spending their time looking for reasons to complain and act hurt/offended by some crappy jokes made in bad taste.

27/10/2011 at 14:42 misterk says:

With regards to Wow, I’m a little curious? What other battles should the LGBT community be fighting? I mean, other than homophobic abuse and language, and lack of representation… what else would they be talking about there? Or is the status quo always perfect?
27/10/2011 at 15:42 JackShandy says:

I really am totally blown away by this. The thing you chose to single out as horrible is people complaining about the use of the word “faggot”? That is the crime here? The fact that a guy has decided to stand up on his news blog and say “I disapprove of this man using a gay slur” has ruined your day?

There was an assembly when I was in high school where some brave kid decided to stand up and say “It is not ok to use homophobic language.” So, you would have booed, I guess?

27/10/2011 at 14:39 John Walker says:

While I realised posting this story would dredge such comments, I really do expect better from people who enjoy RPS than, “I as a straight male don’t find it offensive, so why should someone else?”

And btw, anyone who sneeringly uses the phrase “politically correct” to justify their prejudices is a cock. Hope that helps.

27/10/2011 at 14:48 warcode says:

I like “context” and “true equality comes from treating everyone equally”. But saying words are inherently bad makes you a faggot. (Analyze away)
27/10/2011 at 14:48 Berzee says:

edited: if I try to start an actual conversation on such a busy thread, I won’t get any work done all day. whatever I’d have said is Forum material, not WordPress Comments material. Have a good blog :)
27/10/2011 at 14:52 AndrewC says:

True equality comes from recognising that our current culture is incredibly unequal and putting serious work into changing the underlying social landscape
27/10/2011 at 14:57 TillEulenspiegel says:

The sheer volume of depressing comments on this article seems quite a bit higher than usual. I’ve wound up with more blocked than not. It’s a sad thing for RPS.
27/10/2011 at 14:57 Stamford says:

And I expect better from RPS’s writers than this sensationalist crap.
27/10/2011 at 15:01 Apples says:

To be perfectly honest, I have never found RPS commenters to be very progressive, and this whole thread is par for the course. Every time you (or any writer or commenter) says anything about gender or sexual politics, the straight white middle-class males come out in hordes to angrily deny the fact that anyone could ever be offended by anything ever.

Hint to those commenters: the reason you find little offense in any media, and may even like being offended by media, is because those offensive things remain safely away from your real life. You will never have to face them when you’re not pretending to be a superhero or a wizard. Other people do, and don’t enjoy prejudice following them into their escapism.
27/10/2011 at 15:02 Lakshmi says:

I’m glad RPS post these kinds of stories, even if it does invite some people to post such utter bollocks in the comments.
27/10/2011 at 15:04 StingingVelvet says:

What warcode said.
27/10/2011 at 15:12 MiniMatt says:

Playing devil’s advocate a little here for the sake of argument; but some arguments have been made which, whilst I strongly disagree with them, have a grain of merit too often wrapped around crass diatribe and more than a little denial. Namely the argument that “faggot” has lost it’s meaning. Now I really can’t make a case for that because it’s so far from my hardwired position that it reviles me, but I can see that there exists the potential that words change meaning over time.

To a degree I never will be offended by these things precisely because I am a white straight male – I will never quite “get” it, I will never quite know how it feels to be called an n-word, a p-word, or an f-word because I’m white and straight. So I can’t really be offended by them or project offense as a result of them. I do however, find them personally, as a white straight male, deeply deeply offensive words whether used as a direct attack or just shat out as so much verbal diarrhea to punctuate a sentence.

As such I find that promotion of such attitudes, language and general (and how middle class does this sound) lack of manners deeply inappropriate in promoting a game which Blizz seems to promote to a wide inclusive audience of differing age, race, sex and sexuality.

If my (still imaginary) red headed stepchild were to utter such arse gravy I would undoubtedly beat them like a red headed stepchild (it’s the only way to learn ‘em). Side note, if only I were TJ McCormack, I could speak with complete authority on all matters.
27/10/2011 at 15:15 Hentzau says:

Lots of people saying OMG RPS STOP WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS SENSATIONALIST CRAP so I’ll just say this: RPS, the day you *stop* writing this kind of article is the day I stop reading your site. Otherwise, keep up the good work.
27/10/2011 at 15:16 GhundiPI says:

Can only agree with John. Reading through these comments is extremely saddening. While I didn’t expect the RPS community to be the ‘last, best hope’ of the online homo sapiens, it is quite a shock to see such a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the feelings and issues of a fellow human being.

For anyone who has been on the receiving end of any kind of discrimination, it is extremely painful to see such flippant use of words which for them have a derogatory meaning. To see Blizzard endorse (which is the only way to describe why Blizzard allowed this person to spew such vitriol) this during an event with such a large audience, can only be called perplexing.

And this has nothing to do with John being ‘politicaly correct’. Anyone taking that up as a means to defend their opinion is not only a cock, but (I suspect) also trying to cover their own bigoted use of language.
27/10/2011 at 15:21 Berzee says:

“it is quite a shock to see such a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the feelings and issues of a fellow human being”

This applies to how we treat the metal band man, too, right?
27/10/2011 at 15:28 Bluerps says:

I think, a considerable part of the gaming community still has many problems with homosexuality. I remember the ridiculous discussions about the gay relationships in Dragon Age, and that was not so long ago…
27/10/2011 at 15:29 Rii says:

In my experience straightfaced use of the term ‘political correctness’ is a fairly reliable indicator that the person in question is a knob.
27/10/2011 at 15:29 GhundiPI says:

“This applies to how we treat the metal band man, too, right?”

That would be equivalent to sympathizing with someone wearing a white robe, matching mask and pointy hat.
27/10/2011 at 15:34 Berzee says:

@GhundPl
Ok, just wanted to make sure there were SOME groups that we’re allowed to show complete disregard and lack of understanding for.
27/10/2011 at 15:48 Senethro says:

This looks like the only sensible part of the comments, so imma leave my post here.
I’m surprised and disappointed by all these less than progressive replies, thanks for proving these newsposts are necessary John, keep it up.
27/10/2011 at 15:49 GhundiPI says:

“Ok, just wanted to make sure there were SOME groups that we’re allowed to show complete disregard and lack of understanding for.”

I can only guess I touched a nerve somewhere with my OP, otherwise I’m unable to understand your persistence in being so obtuse to the meaning of said OP.

On the other hand it is possible that you’re one of those rare type of human who takes everything as literally as possible. In which case I hope you’re not playing WoW as a member of the Horde.
27/10/2011 at 15:56 str4 says:

This makes me sad. Why run this sensationalist crap and push your ideals all over everyone else? Then you insult your readers who disagree with you?

I guess the only real way to speak my dissatisfaction is to stop coming here. I realize though that you really only want readers who think the exact same things as you, so you won’t miss me.
27/10/2011 at 16:03 hungrytales says:

Pfff, I’d jolly better be a cock than politically correct. What homophobic is anyway? It’s only a label to pin on people whose views you don’t particularly like, to get them in line, to limit their freedom, their thought and their speech.

For me this post was a ‘so RPS is politically correct, what a shame’ revelation. There’s nothing perfect in this world, it does indeed seem.

[so f.... sad now]
27/10/2011 at 16:04 Berzee says:

@GhundPl

No, I just think it’s a bit sad how the article and many of the “progressive” comments are doing little more than showering the hateful band member with hate. For all the talk of understanding human beings and their issues…or are you really not seeing the failure to apply the philosophy across the board, here?

In other words — if people disagree with the metal band man, I wish they would do it in as loving and considerate (which is not to see weak or wavering) a manner as they would demand from him. =) Anything less is simple bigotry (bigotry meaning, not that you disagree with someone, but that you treat them as worth less than other human beings).
27/10/2011 at 16:10 JackShandy says:

Berzee, it’s ok to be homophobophobic. Anyway, show me the worst thing someone’s said about this guy here – His band is shitty? He’s badly groomed and dressed? I haven’t seen any insults that would provoke your reaction.
27/10/2011 at 16:29 Benga says:

@berzee the only ‘hate’ being shown towards the singer is at his choice of lyrics and his apparent prejudice . It would only be equatable if we were showing hatred to all the Metal singers in his genre of music and how they were not positive members of our society.
27/10/2011 at 16:30 GhundiPI says:

@Berzee:

Sorry, but I cannot agree with you there. While I didn’t pass any judgement on this ‘metal band man’, I also see no reason for others to be all kinds of cute and cuddly with someone who is able to spew such vitriol (and I’m not only talking about the specific content discussed in this topic). He reaps what he sows…

As for my ‘talk of understanding human beings and their issues’, that is directed to those who have been on the receiving end of this kind of discrimination. Unfortunately there is no way for someone who hasn’t experienced this to be able to fully understand the impact it has and how behaviour like that from the ‘metal band man’ will only contribute to the current worsening trend seen almost everywhere.

Luckily though there are people, like John, who are able to see when a line has been crossed and show their disgust with much needed articles like this one.
27/10/2011 at 16:40 theleif says:

@John Walker

Well, the same happens every time. The Hey Baby article springs to mind. It seems like normally intelligent and articulate persons transforms into Yngwie Malmsteen and unleashes his fucking fury whenever sexism or homophobia is mentioned as bad.

And while picturing that transformation in my head is pretty funny, reading the comments makes me sadfaced.
27/10/2011 at 18:44 unitled says:

I’ll repeat the comment many other people have said, that when RPS stops making a stand against knuckledragging macho, sexist, homophobic behaviour in the gaming community, I’ll leave their site and never return. Please keep it up, John (and the rest of the RPS staff), I can’t bear the thought of sites like Destructoid winning!

Anyone who has commented saying they’re going to stop visiting RPS because they read stuff like this, go, please. I can honestly say the rest of us will not miss you.
27/10/2011 at 19:24 TheSaddestSort says:

Thank you RPS, for better refining my “block user” list.
27/10/2011 at 19:52 Dozer says:

+1 to the sentiment that these articles are the gold of RPS. I read RPS for the articles like this. I’d much rather read commentary on the state of the gaming world than “A games company released a game today” all the time.

(disclaimer: my PC is older than your mum. I’m not really a PC gamer anymore. Why play games when you can spend all evening trying to get uDig to visualise spatial data from a PostgreSQL database? Then you could have SQL-generated maps of stuff! ah, the power and potential.)
27/10/2011 at 22:33 slM_agnvox says:

Words DO have meaning and the words used here are violent, hurtful and discriminatory. The context is irrelevant to that fact.

Any a subject can so rapidly generate so much passion, this much division, is a subject that needs to be explored rigorously and often. A subject that triggers this much knee jerk reaction-ism can only be understood through repeated encounter and examination.

Do keep this up, John, RPS, et al.
28/10/2011 at 00:33 FunkyBadger3 says:

Excellent article, thanks for posting it, JW.

And thanks for providing the block button.
28/10/2011 at 00:45 lumenadducere says:

I wanted to join in and say that I too enjoy these articles, and they’re one of the reasons I come to RPS. I really value these more than the “developer X is releasing game Y at Z date” articles, because really that’s information we can get at any other gaming site. It’s the analysis, both of the games themselves and the culture around them, that makes RPS unique and enjoyable, and it would be a damn shame if that were lost.

Keep up the good work.
28/10/2011 at 06:23 MultiVaC says:

Agreed, please don’t ever give up on posting articles like this, no matter how many troglodytes end up coming out of the woodwork because of it. One of the reasons I like the site is how much of much of an antithesis it is to the obnoxious attitudes that are all over most gaming sites, so thank you John and the rest of RPS, and keep it up.
29/10/2011 at 03:30 Capon says:

Its because of articles like this one that I maintain my subscription with RPS. My hard earned moolah better be used to root up more bigots and asshats.

27/10/2011 at 14:42 Ian says:

I’m not sure the use of the word alone (as much as it’s insentive and disrespectful and stupid) is the same as being homophobic, is it?

If he’d use the word ‘bitch’* instead of ‘faggot’, say, would we get an article entitled “BlizzCon’s Peculiar Misogynistic Moment”? I’m not sure if that example works enough to clarify my point, or whether that point is valid in the first place but that was my thought on reading this.

* I’m NOT saying bitch is directly equivalent to faggot or as offensive, it’s just the best example I could thing of.

Regardless, based on what others have said about that guy/the band in here (name’s of their songs, etc.) it sounds like getting him in was at best a bizarre mis-step in the first place.

27/10/2011 at 16:32 Benga says:

“If he’d use the word ‘bitch’* instead of ‘faggot’, say, would we get an article entitled “BlizzCon’s Peculiar Misogynistic Moment”?”

No. But that says more about our society and how ingrained sexism is then it does about whether this person was homophobic/misogynistic.
27/10/2011 at 16:54 JackShandy says:

What? Yes we would. We’ve got articles on the overuse of Bitch in Arkham Asylum right now. We probably would have gotten an article on it if all he did was swear at the audience.

27/10/2011 at 14:43 Twitchity says:

In any case, you’d think Blizz — having gone through one PR debacle regarding their treatment of gay players — would have been a bit more sensitive to the optics of this one.

Then again, this is *Blizzard*. You know, the guys who gave us Tosh and the Rastafarian witch-doctor trolls. So I don’t know why I’d expect otherwise.

27/10/2011 at 14:43 43 says:

I think the most shocking part of that video was how bad the song was. I know he is a key Blizzard employee, but someone needs to break it to him that his band is awful.

27/10/2011 at 15:45 merc-ai says:

They should learn from EVE Online’s band.

27/10/2011 at 14:44 andrewdoull says:

I just attended an event where a 52 year old lesbian was applauded by the entire audience for playing WoW.

This clip is the polar opposite of that.

27/10/2011 at 14:47 John Walker says:

I’m not entirely convinced that deserved applause : )
27/10/2011 at 15:00 andrewdoull says:

I was at the time… now I’m not so sure.
27/10/2011 at 15:01 Berzee says:

Playing WoW is *always* praiseworthy, regardless of [insert personal attributes here].

27/10/2011 at 14:44 Berzee says:

I hate that words ending in “phobic” have come into popular usage for things that are not related to fear. It’s stupid. It smacks of trying to discredit someone by making fun of their being afraid. “You know why they oppose us? ‘Cuz they’re afraaaaaiiiid! Ha!”

Xenophobic…Homophobic…whatever other kinds of phobic you like. Save them for when it’s actually about fear (i.e. Xenophobic people are those who actually fear foreigners, either individually or as an influx of immigration. People who just really don’t like non-local people aren’t Xenophobic, they’re just mean to outsiders. Wulf in particular should pay attention here ;) because crying Phobia is not only taking a cheap shot, it’s taking a cheap shot in the wrong direction. Don’t make fun of someone for being scared if you really think you should be chastising them for being mean or wilfully ignorant.)

Some people will of course say I am being picky about words and in the current vernacular Homophobic has been expanded to include hatefulness. But I won’t excuse sloppy language or implicit suggestions that hate must of necessity arise from fear. =) And if you say, “Language evolves so don’t be offended…” — well, you’ll have a lot of people to argue that with over OTHER words in this particular thread, yeah? =)

27/10/2011 at 14:47 Ian says:

“Pronunciation:/ˈfəʊbɪə/
noun

an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something:she suffered from a phobia about birds”

From Oxford dictionary, who seem a good enough source.

And they have aversion as “a strong dislike or disinclination”.

EDIT: Fair’s fair, the Collins dictionary does not mention dislike/aversion. But the Oxford one’s not the first definition I’ve encountered that includes (irrational) dislike as part of phobia.
27/10/2011 at 14:56 Berzee says:

I still think in most minds it’s intended to stir a suggestion of fearfulness. (Stirring a suggestion of irrationality is SO much better and fairer, anyhow).
28/10/2011 at 18:26 Llewyn says:

@Ian: Even better, the OED has a specific entry for -phobia when used to make compound nouns, which also refers to aversion as well as fear. And since the OED gives excellent citations for word origins we can see an example from 1843 of this usage. I have to wonder just how old someone would have to be to still object to this linguistic development.

27/10/2011 at 14:44 Curvespace says:

Was this event sponsored by Grainger Games?

27/10/2011 at 14:47 The Hammer says:

+1

27/10/2011 at 14:45 Berzee says:

Also, goodness me, but that does sound like a bizarre and ill-advised BlizzCon. I didn’t watch the video, I’m not sure I could keep my chipper veneer if I did. =P

27/10/2011 at 14:47 jstar says:

There is literally nothing worse than this sort of arm chair righteous indignation on someone elses behalf. I’m pretty sure all the gay guys I know can look after themselves, they certainly don’t need Jeremy Kyle Walker in their corner.

It’s just some stupid metal dude being a gimp. The fact that he uses the word faggot is the least of his problems. I didn’t take anything he said seriously because he’s a fat long haired twat in a heavy metal band. To suggest a gay man would suddenly sit up and take notice of the prick is more offensive than the language he used in the first place.

This article is sensationalist bull shit. What a shame.

27/10/2011 at 14:58 John Walker says:

Literally nothing.
27/10/2011 at 15:13 JackShandy says:

Ahahaha, yes.

“I’m totally for LGBT rights, but what I get REALLY steamed about is straight people complaining when someone says a gay slur! They just won’t stop!”
27/10/2011 at 15:20 Pathetic Phallacy says:

I would rather see a baby in an orphanage with physical disability being killed in a fire that is fueled by dead puppies and kittens than see a heterosexual point out homophobic bullshit endorsed by a company.

Nothing is worse.

In all seriousness though, it seems like gay teens are having a tough time ‘standing up for themselves’. But fuck them, I guess. Nobody wants to be a bleeding-heart, am I right? I’m sure no gay teens play WoW. I’m sure they don’t need to see the people that kick the shit out of them at school being promoted by a company that makes the games they really enjoy.
27/10/2011 at 15:27 Ian says:

Next time I see somebody misuse the word literally I’m literally going to rip their leg off and shove it up their backside.
27/10/2011 at 15:35 danimalkingdom says:

@jstar You’ve missed the point. Gays can take care of themselves. Sure. No-one’s about to take what a dude with gross hair, wearing a t-shirt of his own band, seriously.

Blizzard saw fit to release this footage. That’s the issue. It’s inexplicable why they would, as it does them absolutely no good.
27/10/2011 at 16:36 Benga says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#backup

27/10/2011 at 14:48 akeso says:

For the record, I find it more offensive that people care about the misogyny in Arkham City but are completely unfazed by the horrible and flat out offensive depiction of the mentally ill in both this game and the previous game.
Especially the previous game.
Where was the outcry then?

Oh yeah, people just brushed that off as “part of the batman universe.”
Hypocrites.

27/10/2011 at 14:51 jstar says:

Oh my god shut up. What is this horrible world you want to live in where no one can be offended? I want to be offended. I hope the things that offend me stay around forever. No one has the right not to be offended and if they did the world would be a fucking terrible place and I would kill myself.
27/10/2011 at 15:06 akeso says:

Your logic is entirely circular-

People have the right to make things that offend you.
I like things that offend me.
Stop talking about being offended.

It seems to me that you’re more arguing that you liked it, you didn’t see a problem, and therefore other people shouldn’t be offended.
You’re quick to defend the material, but just as quick to also dismiss the material of those who found it offensive and in poor taste.
You don’t see the logical flaw there?
27/10/2011 at 15:52 bwion says:

@jstar So it’s perfectly fine for you to be offended by what people say, but only you? Just so we’re clear?
27/10/2011 at 16:39 Benga says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#oppression

This thread is turning into real life reference material for the derailing for dummies site! Its amazing ^^
27/10/2011 at 17:36 akeso says:

Sorry, didn’t know I needed to point out exactly WHAT in the article I wanted to reply to to be still on topic.

“You need not look far in any direction to see examples of sexism (the PC has yet to be blessed with Arkham City’s delightful attitude toward female characters), misogyny, racism, and of course homophobia”

It may not be about blizzcon, but the writer brings it up and is topical.

Every time this issue is brought up btw, the first 2 responses are normally:
“No one cares and I liked it”
or
“This isn’t a conversation about that.”

Guess being snarky doesn’t make you clever after all :D
27/10/2011 at 17:45 akeso says:

It seems entirely on topic to point out in a discussion how offended we all are about someone using homophobic slurs in public, how okay we are at the same time with the ignorant, shallow, and often downright hurtful depictions we portray and justify of some of the most vulnerable individuals in our society.
How we feel righteous indignation at the simple thought of negativity based on sex, creed, rage, or gender but defend the same mentality if based on a mental issue. Why? Because we are told one is okay and one is not. We’re socialized to see a problem some places and not in others.

Don’t get on the moral high horse gaming industry when you are perfectly willing to perpetuate and justify negative and medieval stereotypes about one group yet get outraged when the same is done to another group you’re told it is wrong to do that to. It’s hypocritical and convenient ethics right there.

27/10/2011 at 14:48 Sigvatr says:

I’m sorry but I have a great deal of respect for Cannibal Corpse, and I really am not going to take your sob story this time.

I hosted the Death Metal Show on 4ZZZ 102.1 FM here in Brisbane for over a year and I will admit that there is a great deal of homophobia and naughty words in the metal community. Complaining about it is going to achieve nothing, however. I’ve heard more than one person called a faggot or a nigger and it was all in good fun. In a way, those two excellent words have been taken away from normal users of the English language and only certain people are supposed to say them.

The type of homophobia you are probably accusing Cannibal Corpse of is the “super serious you are a mean jerk” homophobia. But it’s not. It’s the “faggot is a great word” homophobia, which actually isn’t homophobia at all. Like quite a lot of people during school, you probably were told that you were gay, even though you weren’t. But in the process, you learnt that words like faggot and gay were excellent swear words, even if you didn’t have anything against homosexuals. There is no “phobia” there or implied fear about it. It’s just a case of growing up and thinking that homosexual slurs are hilarious, if not politically correct.

And metal fans in general are not politically correct. They might come across as racist, homophobic, or whatever, but I’ve never met an intolerant one.

So basically you are accusing Blizzard of being dumb for inviting over evil metal band Cannibal Corpse? I find it hard to believe that many World of Warcraft players would enjoy their music, but in any case, they are a legendary death metal band. I don’t think you should bother getting angry about anything here. Everything went exactly as it should have, including the political incorrectness (is that a word? I’m inventing it).

But seriously you guys are gay, and the tears are delicious.

27/10/2011 at 15:23 JackShandy says:

Hey, fellow brisbane-ite. Objecting to these words being used is hard, I know. I can totally understand that you’d take the easy route and embrace them, seeing as objecting every time you hear them would probably lead to terrible interviews with people, having your friends think you’re lame, being fired from your radio station, etc. But I’d take issue with the idea that objecting to them wouldn’t change anything. Have you tried?
27/10/2011 at 15:28 Pathetic Phallacy says:

So you think that a guy who talks about kicking the shit out of people over a video game is using homophobic slurs in a non-homophobic way? You think a guy who says fuck four or five times in a single sentence has no ill feelings toward homosexuality? You’re silly. I like that.
27/10/2011 at 15:36 Keep says:

You and your buddies can call each other faggots til the cows come home.

And gay friends can call each other faggots as much as they want.

But when you and your friends call gay people faggots (or black people niggers, or women cunts), that’s where you’re being a shit. You’re using those words to express “I am more powerful than you because you are gay/black/female”.

If you address a crowd with those words, not knowing who’s in that crowd (and the crowd knowing you don’t know that), that’s equally shitty of you.

These words are about power and privilege. Do you believe people deserve privilege because of their race, or gender, or sexuality?
Then don’t use those words that way.
27/10/2011 at 15:41 lasikbear says:

Yeah, stop it you bullys, you took all the good swear words away! How is he supposed to swear now? If he can’t use the good swear words there’s no point swearing. Can’t you see who this really hurts? The poor guy, he’s the real victim here.
27/10/2011 at 16:42 Benga says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#playfair

“As a Privileged Person®, it is natural that you would feel excluded and frustrated by the recent spate of Marginalised People “reclaiming” historically negative words to refer to themselves.

Not only do these Marginalised People™ kick up a great big ole stink by making it “politically incorrect” for Privileged People® to use these words – even going so far as to have some of them defined under ‘hate crime’ legislation! – they take the insult one step further and use them freely amongst themselves!

This is very perplexing and annoying for Privileged People®, who can only stand on the outside, gazing wistfully in, wishing it were a simpler time when it was totally okay for everyone to call women whores, Mexicans spics, Trans* folk trannies, gay men faggots and people of African descent the n-word.

After all, who do those Marginalised People™ think they are, taking ownership of language traditionally used to oppress them! That just isn’t playing fair!

But take heart, because there is a way you can worm around this one – where there’s Privilege®, there’s always a way!

First of all, you must feign utter cluelessness about the ins & outs of reclaimation and behave as though you were under the impression that in these ‘post race/sex/sexuality/gender/etc times’ that we had all evolved into a new era where ‘words don’t mean anything’ and it’s totally okay for everyone to use offensive slurs and then… well: use them.

When a Marginalised Person™ calls you out on it, become indignant. Express confusion. Demand an explanation. Say that you just don’t understand – if you people use those words to refer to each other, why can’t I?!

You see, you’re implying that they’re being hypocritical. That if they are going to use abusive & oppressionist language aongst each other, they simply have to accept that they’re employing a ‘double standard’ by preventing the Privileged® from using them.

What this enables you to ignore is the reality of the power dynamic involved. Language reclaimation is a means by which Marginalised People™ gain back some power they are traditionally denied by taking control of words used to demean and discriminate against them. When these words come from Privileged People®, there is a long and very serious negative history behind them that cannot be divorced from the words themselves. Thus, when Privileged People® employ these words, they are perpetuating that history and the psychology behind the word. They are exercising oppressive power that have become inherent to those words – a power Marginalised People™ seek to subvert and dismantle when they use them.

Pretend not to understand this. Just continue to imply hypocrisy and pout that it isn’t fair.

It also ignores the fact that, from within Marginalised Groups™, discourses around abusive language are actually not simple and there are many divided and varied opinions on the subject. Treating Marginalised People™ like a hive mind is always a great way to further subtly insult them and since the point of this entire debacle is to come out with as many notches on your belt as possible, you want to make sure you slip in as many knocks below their belt as you can manage.”

27/10/2011 at 14:49 lokijki says:

This might have already been posted, but I feel it’s relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA

27/10/2011 at 20:04 rayne117 says:

It doesn’t matter what he says because he is white.

WHITE PEOPLE CAN’T BE OFFENDED

DUH

27/10/2011 at 14:49 AndrewC says:

Film Critic Hulk (he’s a film critic, he writes in HULK voice), in responding to the whole ‘sexism in Arkham City’ debacle, wrote a point by point breakdown of every counter-argument made here:

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/hulk-vs-arkham-city-round-2-bitches-be-trippin/

That will stand for my response too.

Countering the sociopathy of gamers seems to me the major political fight in gaming culture today. Keep at it, Walker!

27/10/2011 at 16:57 theleif says:

I stumbled on that thanks to the last saturday papers here.
It should be obligatory reading for everybody.
27/10/2011 at 18:24 Muzman says:

Film Crit Hulk is a legend, but that video in the midst there: Holy Fucking Shit!
http://youtu.be/Kb5ev2Dp4I0

Is that show serious or did they just follow the reality show model of lining it with people you want to kill?
Wwwwwwow. That’s worth a post more than Cannibal Corpse guy.
27/10/2011 at 20:10 rayne117 says:

The best part about these offended babies like yourself Andrew, is that you think you’re fighting some good, just Holy War against the evil Users of Free Speech.
27/10/2011 at 21:51 theleif says:

I take the fact that these days, it’s mostly racists, homophobes, fundamentalists and misogynists that evokes the right to free speach as a good sign that we have made progress in our society. It wasn’t that long ago that “God hates fags” was the common view.

27/10/2011 at 14:52 Berzee says:

Also, this is about computer games I don’t play and a company I happen not to buy from. Why am I posting except so I don’t feel left out of the comment-riot? <_o

27/10/2011 at 14:52 pipman3000 says:

thank god we have all these straight people letting us know that calling someone a cock sucking faggot who needs to kill themselves isn’t homophobic or offensive.

what would i do without the majority letting me know what i can and cannot be offended by.

27/10/2011 at 14:52 golden_worm says:

[double post]

27/10/2011 at 14:54 Ajh says:

Honestly the only thing that made me angry about the entire incident was blizzard’s fake and insincere apology using the words “We’re sorry if we offended people.” I found it horribly inappropriate, even as a horde player to have that kind of rant up there on stage when i was watching the concert. I didn’t pay for my virtual ticket for stuff like that.

The forums are filled with people saying that people like me, my friends, and anyone else who simply would like an apology (It doesn’t have to be long! A simple “We shouldn’t have showed that. Sorry.” would suffice.) are whiners and need to shut up kind of shows how downhill the WoW community itself has gone. No one’s looking for a reason to complain, we’re looking at something that’s already happening more and more in the wow community, (LFG is a horrific place sometimes.) and watching blizzard give the nod that that sort of behavior is okay by their books.

Even with the censorship, what they posted would have been against blizzard’s own terms of use for the game. Is this a do as I say not as I do case?

27/10/2011 at 14:55 Unaco says:

Ewww, breeders.

27/10/2011 at 15:00 gr0undzer0 says:

Are we still calling white males privileged?

I don’t remember getting points added to my entrance exam in college like some “non privileged groups”

I don’t remember going to college on tax money (even though I claimed independence)

I don’t remember people walking on egg shells not to offend me.

It’s not that I want to get handouts .. I just don’t want anyone to get them. I’m all about equality in financial and social respects. That means you can make fun of me I can make fun of you and you can get the fuck over it.

27/10/2011 at 15:10 Pathetic Phallacy says:

It looks like someone is suffering from the white man’s burden.

Is it hard being so white? Please, tell us your tale of struggle so that all can hear the horrors of being white in America. I’ll sing while you preach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

Please watch that stand-up. Also, I’m proud of you for standing up and admitting your whiteness. It takes a lot of courage and I respect you for that.
27/10/2011 at 15:12 Apples says:

Do you remember having role models that you can identify strongly with in most of your media for your entire life?
Do you remember most of the people at your college course being similar to you?
Do you remember people at college/work generally automatically assuming you’re an intelligent, capable person?
Do you remember being able to laugh easily and never feel awkward when people make ‘edgy’ jokes about women or foreigners?
Do you remember walking along dark streets without worrying?

Cause I’m not male and I don’t remember any of those things!

Seriously you have a pretty short-sighted view of ‘privilege’. It’s not all financial. Yes, other genders/races get some ‘handouts’, as you call them, but that’s to make up for literally centuries of oppression and being considered second-class citizens.
27/10/2011 at 15:24 Berzee says:

“Yes, other genders/races get some ‘handouts’, as you call them, but that’s to make up for literally centuries of oppression”

Dang, those are old people.

For your particular issues as a college-lady, the solution would of course not be “getting handouts” but would instead be a whole bunch more guys learning to be Gentlemen. =)
27/10/2011 at 15:37 Apples says:

@Berzee: My point was that privilege is nothing to do with getting financial help or not, so yes, of course the solution is not handouts. Although nor is it anything to do with men being more like “gentlemen” either, whatever that means. Not sure why you have centred in my education out of that post (I brought it up because the poster I replied to did). Those things I said are not the “issues of a college-lady”, they are general issues of being a woman, and areas in which white males DO have more privilege no matter how much they whinge and prevaricate about it.
27/10/2011 at 15:48 Berzee says:

I just centered on college because you mentioned it so many times, you can remove that and just substitute the word “lady”.

But yes, if a sufficiently high population of men were Gentlemen there would probably be less assuming-you’re-not-intelligent-or-capable and less worrying-while-walking-down-dark-streets, et cetera.

Not that there are no Gentlemen about, just that in some places at some times they might be rather outnumbered.
27/10/2011 at 16:03 Jibb Smart says:

“Do you remember most of the people at your college course being similar to you?” You’re kidding, right? Maybe it depends on the program.

I’m a white male in Computer Science. It is something like 95% male. It sucks. If there were more women there I’d be more likely to actually attend. And while there are tonnes of computer science students who really shouldn’t be there because they’re so incapable, it’s only the women who I assume are smart and capable, because they break the stereotype.
27/10/2011 at 16:25 Apples says:

Had the same experience with my Comp Sci degree, except obvz being in that 5%. Lovely to know that it was our presence in the lecture hall that would have inspired you more than the quality of teaching or any such inconsequential thing like that… (who am I kidding though, there is basically no quality of teaching in universities)
27/10/2011 at 16:52 Jibb Smart says:

“(who am I kidding though, there is basically no quality of teaching in universities)” A bit of that, and a bit of prior experience means I’m only enrolled in university to acquire a degree so my resume/portfolio isn’t automatically ignored by potential employers. If I’m travelling an hour and a half each way just for an alternative to my more local social circles, I’d rather I was hanging out with (or at the very least, meeting) girls.

I imagine it must be awful on your end as well. I’ve heard it said that everyone, regardless of gender, would rather hang out with girls :P
27/10/2011 at 17:05 gr0undzer0 says:

I’m not upset because I don’t get handouts. I’m upset that people always cry for equality but then want a leg up to get there. Equality means people get treated equally. Not some people get more to “make them equall”. I think political correctness is a bunch of sissy bs and its al part of the “no one is a looser ” mentality the USA has. Sorry but there are loosers out there and there are people who just fail at life.White, black, hispanic, gay, man, woman all the groups have fail. Lets just be honest about it.
27/10/2011 at 17:39 zergrush says:

Equality is about making sure people get equal opportunities, and to achieve that you DO have to give some advantage to groups that due to all different kinds of historical conditions and generally being oppressed in the past are less likely to be as rich ( therefore as”equal” ) than the majority of people.

Blacks / hispanics / gay caribbean midgets used to have unfavourable conditions and for a long time had absolutely no economical growth, therefore they’re more likely to be poor and generally have less opportunities in life.

It’s not rocket science, and it’s not your fault that they’re in that position, BUT a system that promotes equality should give historically oppressed people some advantage to make them more equal to people who didn’t suffer those things.

Also, about 30% of my comp-sci class is female ( but I’m on a different country and continent with a completely different situation, and I believe the amount of women enrolled in higher education has been higher than men over the last few years here )
27/10/2011 at 17:52 Keep says:

“Equality means people get treated equally.”

It’d be great if society were beside you, but the way history has brought us to where we are now means we shouldn’t just treat people as equals already.

Here, this jpg’ll show the idea: http://www.thbook.org/lightofthemoon/pics/Brief%20history%20of%20race%20relations%20in%20the%20US.jpg
27/10/2011 at 19:48 gr0undzer0 says:

That pic would be accurate if all white people gained their position through slavery of others. I suppose in a way the guy who works for subway or pizza hut is treated pretty porely but they choose to work there. Still plenty of people made wealth / notiriaty without slavery. The main avenues for advancement are church, military, education. Each of them give varying degrees of status in different ways. Plenty of people climed up from the bottom.
28/10/2011 at 07:34 Dorchadas says:

“Still plenty of people made wealth / notiriaty without slavery. ”

They still benefit from racism on a society-wide level. For example: White applicants with criminal records are more likely to receive a call back than black applicants without one, even if all other characteristics are the same (source: http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf)

And that’s happening TODAY. That’s the biggest misdirection people throw out about affirmative action and other anti-racism measures–that they’re only for correcting historical discrimination. They’re for correcting that and for the current discrimination that white people still benefit from.

(study obviously took place in the US and may not be applicable elsewhere)

27/10/2011 at 15:01 Chris D says:

Whether it’s intended as such or not any term of derision that implies a person is inferior on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality contributes to an atmosphere in which it becomes harder to be a person of that type and easier for those who choose to attack them.

27/10/2011 at 15:02 Mephisto says:

Hmm, Blizzard aren’t selling me their new expansion with this trailer.

Sound is of poor quality for a start. Character models are realistic though.

27/10/2011 at 15:02 StingingVelvet says:

RPS often reads like a blog for parents in the 50′s who can’t stand this new rock and roll thing.

27/10/2011 at 15:48 JackShandy says:

Here it is again! This bonkers claim that saying “fag” is just this crazy edgy thing that the old folks can’t stand because they’re too square! You’re nuts! Your brain must be peppering the walls!

27/10/2011 at 15:03 asshibbitty says:

Read this comments thread. This is the attitude that you’ve cultivated, where instead of shitheads getting laughed out you get sane posters arguing with them causing these horrible dry humps. A healthy community.

27/10/2011 at 15:04 pipman3000 says:

blizzcon apologizes for their mistake and gives all attendees tickets to see blizzcons 2012′ newest featured band and world of warcraft fans prussian blue

edit: apparently prussian blue is no longer around, blizzcon appologizes and hopes you enjoy their replacement band (who i heard are pretty big fans of lost vikings 2) RaHoWa

Edit: apparently they’re not around either, blizzcon 2012 is canceled until 2013 to find a replacement for them

27/10/2011 at 15:07 Berzee says:

Wait wait wait! John Walker, you forgot to append this to your article:

“Meanwhile, the people of Burundi…”

27/10/2011 at 17:55 pipman3000 says:

the people of burundi are all dead. some commenter from rps decided to kill them all to show off how unpolitically correct he is
27/10/2011 at 20:09 Dozer says:

C’est impossible! Je suis le President du Burundi! Je est vive!

Café?

27/10/2011 at 15:08 Pathetic Phallacy says:

I appreciate RPS’ coverage of this issue.

This was not just a man playing a game and saying hateful things. This was a man on a stage being promoted by a company saying things that offend thousands of players. But if anyone still remembers the whole gay guild fiasco in World of Warcraft, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.

27/10/2011 at 15:09 Dys Does Dakka says:

Blizzard: Ever at the forefront of reinforcing the stereotype of People Wot Play (PC) Games as unwashed, arse-for-mouthed manchildren who are only able to communicate in one- or two-syllable expletives.

No, I’m not offended in the slightest; just somewhat resigned.
I might have entertained a faint feeling of irritation at Blizzard’s opinion of my intellect and sense of what’s amusing had I been a player of this WoW thing -or that other slot-machine-disguised-as-a-game they’re hyping at the moment-, though.

27/10/2011 at 15:10 mcol says:

This is PC gaming news. Right here. Yep.

#losingthewill

27/10/2011 at 16:54 Benga says:

EDIT: removed double post
27/10/2011 at 16:54 Benga says:

may I suggest http://www.IGN.com or perhaps http://www.eurogamer.net they may be more of what you are looking for. I personally have never thought deeply about topics or had my views challenged in a constructive way while reading those sites.
27/10/2011 at 20:14 rayne117 says:

Oh jesus, Benga commented. Undoubtedly it’s a well thought out argument and not a link to that dummies site (Which I hear he is the top member of. You get it, he’s the top dummy!).

27/10/2011 at 15:11 merc-ai says:

Just when I thought that Blizzard’s decision-making could not fall any lower, here comes this.
It appears to me that lately Samwise Didier and his colleagues are working hard to undo all the respect Blizzard gained over years.

27/10/2011 at 15:18 golden_worm says:

I think its true that no one has a right to not be offended, after all causing offence is a powerful tool for expressing the depth of our emotions before we resort to violence. Banning “offending people” would be detrimental to freedom of expression and tempting for those who would enforce their own version of morality on others.

However calling people over sensitive because you don’t see taking offence as justified or deliberately provoked is just another example of the same thing. I think those people who do get up tight because they feel misrepresented, offended if you will, and because they don’t consider their own actions unacceptable they are anxious that they will also be judged unfairly. Defensively calling the offended “sensitive” is a rejection of any responsibility for your actions and reactions to peoples genuine emotional responses. It is pure lack of empathy.

Language is complicated though. The subjective offence of any word is highly dependent on context, vocabulary, tone, audience etc. Most of the power to offend is actually in the taboo nature of the word itself, not its literal meaning. The best way to reduce the taboo is to use the word more and expose it to more varied and ambiguous interpretations, but this will cause more offence. The power to use the taboo is tempting as a method to shock and cause controversy; useful at an otherwise bland conference or to enhance an image of nonconformity in an ageing rock musician. Are they wrong? Well it kind of worked, didn’t it, but that doesn’t make it all ok.

27/10/2011 at 15:18 Berzee says:

Pestilent as this video probably would be if I listened to it (I think it would disappoint me on many levels…as someone who dislikes swearing as who also dislikes people who let their dislike of homosexuality turn into dislike for the people who practice it…hating a behavior is never an excuse to fail in loving a person…though loving a person may in some cases require hating some of their behaviors)…

anyhow, as much as a song about killin’ yourselves and whatall seems “ugh” to me, I do think there can be some room for acknowledging that songs are not always 100% sincere or even 1% sincere.

My reason for thinking this is based entirely on the fact that I have never ingesting the smallest morsel of alcohol and never intend to (except for once when someone gave me tiramisu without telling me what was in it, but that’s alright). And yet I listen to country music every day and sing along with great gusto to many songs about how Drinking Beer is like the Greatest Thing Ever. Why do I do that? I have no idea. But if someone called me soberphobic, I might raise at least two eyebrows in honest skepticism (having some first-hand knowledge of my own habits and beliefs).

Curious thing, that…why do we sing things we don’t believe? Or is it only me?

27/10/2011 at 15:19 henben says:

Directed at the sensitive kid at school, “go fucking cry in a river and tell me about how you’re going to slit your wrists, you faggot” is hate speech. It’s not nice to use the word faggot as a slur, whether you’re impuning their sexuality (as if being gay is somehow wrong) or their ability to live up to some notion of manliness.

But “go fucking cry in a river and tell me about how you’re going to slit your wrists, you *Night Elf* faggot” is impuning the sexuality/manliness of an imaginary fictional culture. It’s trash-talking within the context of the game world.

There’s a huge difference between using an epithet out of hate, and using it in playful trash-talking. You don’t need to be the kind of idiot who complains about “political correctness” and “cultural marxism” to draw that distinction.

Now, was it wise for Blizzard to broadcast this? I’m sure there are plenty of emo faggots who play Night Elves in the game and get enough of that kind of abuse in real life, and don’t welcome its intrusion into the con. So maybe not.

27/10/2011 at 15:24 Chris D says:

But, as you say, it’s implying homosexuality is wrong and that people who fail to live up to a standard of manliness are inferior. Even if you don’t intend to hurt the target it’s still doing AoE damage.
27/10/2011 at 15:27 Apples says:

The thing is, if they had instead said “slit your wrists, you Night Elf nigger” (because you see, they’re dark-skinned!), nobody would be defending it. That is still trash-talking within the context of the game world, but it’s culturally unacceptable, for good reason. Why would you try and defend the use of the word “faggot”, then? How is it different?

I don’t think using the words makes you automatically racist or homophobic, but it certainly makes you look stupid, offensive, and willing to exclude non-straight members of your fanbase if you’re doing it to a huge audience, or if you have intentionally hired someone else to do it to a huge audience to promote your product!
27/10/2011 at 16:56 Benga says:

what Apples said +1

27/10/2011 at 15:19 Cinnamon says:

It appears that Cannibal Corpse are a pretty shitty band. Quite bad.

27/10/2011 at 16:42 Nemrod says:

You may like better Cannabis Corpse, first album sounds like Cannibal Corpse.. but without being overdone shit. And second album is just plain great!
27/10/2011 at 17:49 Kaira- says:

You take that back. The first three albums are damned great death metal classics.
27/10/2011 at 19:57 Shooop says:

That’s one of the biggest understatements I’ve seen this year.

They’ve been around for over 15 years and haven’t made a half-decent album once. The only reason for their popularity are angsty teenagers who think a song like “I Cum Blood” makes them “edgy.”

At least Suffocation and Bolt Thrower are still around.
27/10/2011 at 20:13 Dozer says:

Are they the band who once released a song with the lyric “Rape the limbless cadaver”? I remember The Chaser’s War On Everything doing a brilliant parody of that song by singing the lyrics to a cheerful tune accompanied by acoustic guitar.

Supporters of music like this remind me of the toddler who’s going up to people saying “Poo! Poo!” because it’s the naughtiest word he knows and he’s desperate to get some kind of reaction.
27/10/2011 at 22:06 chackosan says:

I’ll back up that Bolt Thrower recco. Don’t listen to too much death metal, but those guys get me in a good mood. Don’t really care much for CC, but I thought Alex Webster was great on the Blotted Science album.

27/10/2011 at 15:26 yeastcapp says:

For a long time I found it abhorrent that someone one would try to control my language. I had a british comedy “suck it up, it’s just words” attitude and i didn’t understand people getting offended. Then I realised that the white, straight middle class male is very difficult to offend because culture is already built around them. We have the privilege, it’s out language and we’re used to setting the agenda.

This comment thread proves there’s still a long way to go in gaming subcultures. You can’t just “fuck offensive” – offensive is an emotional pain that can affect the entire way you see yourself. With enough time people begin seeing themselves as deficient and get stuck in that worldview. I still stay offensive things by mistake. I’m trying to be more humble, flexible and willing to question the language I use. Every time you see something like this in the game industry’s mainstream it all takes a big step backward. When I see a gaming news site call it out, it takes a small step forward again.

27/10/2011 at 15:28 Apples says:

You Are A Good Person.
27/10/2011 at 15:34 JFS says:

Plus, he’s pretty right.
27/10/2011 at 15:35 yeastcapp says:

Thanks champ
27/10/2011 at 15:55 demonarm says:

Thank you for one of the few sane comments on this article, and thanks for RPS for continuing to champion these topics.
27/10/2011 at 16:27 Stellar Duck says:

Can I come hide in this comment too? Most of the rest of the comments annoy the hell out my privileged white male mind.

Ugh, I think I’m more offended by the comments here than the actual fool from that, and this I’ve thought for ages, terrible, terrible band.
27/10/2011 at 16:53 hello_mr.Trout says:

+1
27/10/2011 at 17:09 theleif says:

this message is endorsed by The Leif.
27/10/2011 at 17:25 Benga says:

this +1
27/10/2011 at 19:41 gr0undzer0 says:

I don’t think its any easier / harder to make fun of any group as thats only a construct in you head. When you make fun of someone it doesn’t even have to be true its just the presentation of the joke that makes a difference. If it hits you hard you truley need to step back and take a look at why its making you upset, weither its important, and if you feel bad about it maybe you can do something about it. If you don’t feel bad about who you are.. if you don’t have a reason to be ashamed then me making fun of you isn’t going to do shit. I’m fat I get made fun of… i should loose weight if I think its a problem… since i don’t i just say fuck it.
27/10/2011 at 20:16 rayne117 says:

I dunno, saying white people haven’t had strife is actually attacking an entire group of…

27/10/2011 at 15:27 radioactivez0r says:

I think you are coming at this from a very different perspective than someone who knows Cannibal Corpse, and by extension a vocalist who identifies himself as Corpsegrinder. They have made a 20 year career out of being as offensive as possible, in the most ridiculous over the top nonsensical way. I just think you are giving the guy way too much credit.

27/10/2011 at 15:36 JFS says:

I’m still wondering why he’s all out talking about fucking, while I have the strong suspicion this guy hasn’t got the faintest idea what fucking really is. Well. Maybe I’m just throwing around metal fan stereotypes. Maybe I’m not even better than those guys. I think I should go cry in a fucking river.
27/10/2011 at 19:41 oceanclub says:

“They have made a 20 year career out of being as offensive as possible, in the most ridiculous over the top nonsensical way.”

Area Man Who Makes Career Out Of Being a Bigot Surprised People Find Him Bigoted.

P.

27/10/2011 at 15:29 UnravThreads says:

I brought this up in the RPS Steam chat this morning, oddly. Weird. Anyway, props to John for calling Blizz up on it, because I think it needs to be addressed.

Regardless of how some of the RPS commenters feel, this is a serious thing. By playing that clip, by inviting him/paying him to come to Blizzcon, Blizzard are arguably endorsing him and his views. Nice going there, Blizz.You have a lot of players of various genders, sexualities and lifestyle choices, and this is not how you show support.

EA and many other companies, game-related or not, have made an effort in the past year or two to make “It Gets Better” videos which are powerful and beautifully done, and they’re all done in response to things like LGBT-related suicides. Blizzard brings on a homophobic twat with verbal diarrhoea and plays a video telling the “Alliance faggots” to go kill themselves at one of the biggest and most talked about gaming events, especially in PC Gaming, of each year.

You know what? Fuck Blizzard, fuck them and their over-priced games. I’m not supporting a company who pulls such bullshit, and I would urge anyone else who cares about the LGBT community or even just a sense of morality to do the same.

Again, well done John. Have a cold one on me.

27/10/2011 at 15:29 Groove says:

I….don’t get it.

Yeah, the singer of cannibal corpse is a tit, but what they broadcast was so heavily bleeped it came across as illegible comedy. I mean, I watched the actual Blizzcon video, and it didn’t feature anything offensive. The ORIGINAL rant does, and maybe we shouldn’t be giving this guy a platform because of his views, but I think this is blown out of proportion.

27/10/2011 at 15:37 Azradesh says:

John, being offended is never the right reaction, ever, to anything. Something that may cause offence is either intended as such or it isn’t.

If offence is intended then by being offended you are providing the reaction that that person wanted. I’m sure you don’t want to react in a way that pleases what ever twat is trying to be offended.

If offence is not intended then it is equally foolish to get offended. That person may not speak like you, they may have had a different upbringing or walk in different social circles. That person is ignorant of the fact that what they said may have caused offence, so why make a big deal of it.

So yes, gay people should not get offended and nor should anyone else by anything. Offence help no one and only hinders yourself.

27/10/2011 at 15:47 yeastcapp says:

Okay here’s how you are going about this wrong. The first is the sentence “should not get offended” – you do not choose whether or not you are offended by something. It’s an immediate, emotional response – like a sting. It is more pain and runs deeper than a punch in the arm. It’s like following a guy around saying “remember when your mum died? haha!”. The person hearing that has a right to be offended. This is just a less individually targeted form of that abuse.

Second is this: intention is not the same as effect. The language and attitudes we carry around with us maybe wrong-headed without us realising as such. This is because we are not omniscient and do not have an immediate connection to the emotional worlds of others. If the effect of an action hurts someone it doesn’t much matter what the intention was, especially if you refuse to change your conduct even after you know its negative effect. Think pragmatically about it.
27/10/2011 at 15:54 Apples says:

You should probably write this down somewhere and call it “Azradesh’s Wager”…

In addition to what yeastcapp said, simply “not being offended” and “not making a big deal” is letting the person get away with it. Anyone who is deliberately causing offence is a massive asshole and deserves to be called out on it so that it is made clear that their behaviour is not acceptable. That is the complete opposite of what Blizzard is doign by releasing the footage. Anyone who is being offensive out of ignorance is unaware of what they’re doing, and, again, needs to be informed that their behaviour is not acceptable. By that logic, ignoring what has occurred and deciding not to be offended (and what a ludicrous thought that is, that you could just DECIDE about your feelings) is the worst thing to do.
27/10/2011 at 15:55 Groove says:

You’re wrong here.

The crucial point is that being offended by something isn’t the first or final step of the process. In this case people are offended because the offensive language will hurt people. Being offended is part of the solution to this, as it leads to change, trying to have people not say offensive things.
27/10/2011 at 16:00 Salt says:

I think I’ve read “offence” too many times, and now it’s lost all meaning to me.

But I don’t think the problem is really that someone might hear that stupid man’s rant and feel emotionally hurt by it. Instead it’s that Blizzard have seemingly used a major gaming event to broadcast homophobic insults to its customers. As has been well explored in other comments, using the word as an insult can only work if you also hold that someone being homosexual or effeminate (e.g. a faggot) is a bad thing. So by broadcasting such insults, Blizzard are apparently supporting the view that homosexuals are bad people. And then the crowd cheered.

For what it’s worth I didn’t feel offended by the event, but I am glad I’m no longer giving that company any of money.
27/10/2011 at 16:00 Azradesh says:

Ok, maybe it should be, “Should try not to be offended.” My point that it helps no one, least of all yourself, still stands. As does the point about reacting in an offended manner towards the person that intends offence. That person is likely an asshole and will enjoy seeing you act that way.

It’d be fine to inform that person that offends out of ignorance that they are likely to cause offence by saying what they said and why. But the first type of person is best ignored.
27/10/2011 at 16:07 Azradesh says:

@Salt

Oh there’s no doubt this was very silly of Blizzard.
27/10/2011 at 16:29 JackShandy says:

I disagree. Standing up and saying “This isn’t right” is a hard thing to do, and it’s almost always worth it.

27/10/2011 at 15:40 Azradesh says:

Delete this.

27/10/2011 at 15:50 Mephisto says:

The f*****g internet f*****g ate it. F*****g internet, it’s a &^%£&^$.

27/10/2011 at 15:40 yeastcapp says:

Required reading for people who don’t like this article http://nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf

27/10/2011 at 17:39 Sirbolt says:

Yup, there you go white people, your opinions matter less than everyone elses because you have never been discriminated. Unless you’re gay, or short, or tall, or fat, or thin, or…
27/10/2011 at 18:38 Lakshmi says:

Try reading it before getting in a huff. That’s not what it says at all.
27/10/2011 at 20:18 rayne117 says:

How about I write a paper about Gay Privilege? Every section will be about how we have to walk on huge eggshells to make them equal to us non-gays.

“6. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.”

So… white people basically made the current society?

If an alien overlord came in and helped us primitive cave monkeys to build a society, I’m sure most would agree that those aliens would then be better than us, the humans.

Now if you want to say white people made society, then you must say we are your alien overlords.
27/10/2011 at 20:50 Uthred says:

Honest question here, am I supposed to feel “white guilt” even though I come from a country which never had any hand in slavery and the population of which was predominantly white and as such people were discriminated against mainly on religious grounds?
27/10/2011 at 20:54 Dozer says:

Rayne I’m pretty sure you’ve completely misunderstood that part of the article. What was said was this: as a white person, when someone says “This is how our civilisation was made,” you’ll be shown that white people were involved in making it. If you’re not white, you don’t get that guarantee.

Not that I understand that particular point. The amount of melanin in Isembard Kingdom Brunel’s skin and the impact he had on British history are (unrelated) historical facts, unalterable. But I don’t particularly understand why I should find Brunel any more of an inspiring figure than my non-white British friends. Perhaps that particular bit is more relevant to American readers in ways I don’t have the cultural education to grasp.
27/10/2011 at 20:57 Cryo says:

@Uthred: “White guilt” is a term invented by racists who can not comprehend motives of people who are against racism even if they are personally not affected or benefit from it. So the answer to your question is “no”, but not for the reason you give.

27/10/2011 at 16:04 Branthog says:

You know what’s really not doing the perception of the medium any favors? The fact that you can’t get into a game on a console (and sometimes a PC) where half the players aren’t hurling the N-word and homophobic slurs non-stop from gamer tags like “420KushDawgSmokeJew”.

As for this particular example? Yeah, it was in very poor taste. So was that stupid “Fight Against Grenade Spam” thing BFBC2 did.

As for the word “cocksucker”….? I would guarantee that almost nobody who ever says that ties it together with the concept of a homosexual and doesn’t equate it even remotely to calling someone a f*. And as for f*? I’m pretty sure that’s offensive, even if southpark says it shouldn’t be. As I recall, it’s not just “dude, a faggot is just a cigerette or a bunch of kindling for a fire!”, but as I understand, is reference to burning gay people at a fire. Maybe I’m entirely wrong here, but I saw a breakdown of the origin of the word and its use as a slur that stated this and it sort of turned my mind from “it’s an unpleasant and insulting word” to “holy shit, that is almost hauntingly awful”.

On the other hand, I’m reminded of the word “retarded”. All of a sudden, you’re the worst person in the world if you use that word. Interesting, because people that used to be clinically labeled as “retarded” are no longer labeled “retarded”. they are “mentally challenged” or “intellectually disabled”. So, if retarded is no longer applied to that group of people then when you use that word, it shouldn’t be offensive, anymore. (And frankly, it never should have been since it simply means “slow”).

And before you say “you’re just being pedantic and looking for an excuse to use the word ‘retard’”, let’s consider for a moment some *other* words we use a lot. Words like stupid, idiot, moron, and imbecile. These are words we use regularly today. In fact, we use them as somewhat less insulting ways to refer to people than “asshole” and “fuckface” and “dumbass”. These words are what we used to call the people we used to call retarded. They were used, medically, to refer to mentally slow people. They were discarded for “retarded”, which was preferred as more polite and considerate. And now “retarded” is offensive, so we have changed to yet another words… except it’s still okay to say “imbecile, stupid, moron, idiot” and not “retarded”. Go figure.

Slightly related, it’s a change I’ve seen occur with “post traumatic stress disorder”. We used to say that people coming home from the war had shell-shock. Now we say they have “post traumatic stress disorder”. As if making the descriptive word or phrase a little less nail-on-the-head and a lot more dainty, it would reduce the impact of being shell-shocked.

Anyway, things don’t always have to be so politically correct and nerf-safe – but for fuck’s sake, it would be fantastic if there was a lot less racism and homophobia in my daily gaming experience. I never hear this shit in real life. The only time I hear these racial slurs (n* this and jew that and fag this and homo that) is when I’m gaming. And usually on a console, but not always. Having companies sort of contribute to that atmosphere in some way or another does us no favors.

PS: Can people stop misusing the word “Misogyny”? It means the hatred or dislike of women. A lack of respect or a lack of tact toward women is not misogyny. Joking about women, referring to them as chicks, having a game full of T&A, and everything else is no more “misogyny” than telling jokes about dumb husbands and complaining about men is man-hating.

27/10/2011 at 17:36 Stellar Duck says:

Fight against grenade spam was also an Actiblizzion thing. No need to lay that at DICEs door.
27/10/2011 at 17:41 Keep says:

“As for the word “cocksucker”….? I would guarantee that almost nobody who ever says that ties it together with the concept of a homosexual”

Personally I think that’s the problem: it’s insidious. You don’t notice that the subtext is “sucking cocks/being homosexual is something you don’t want to be”.

And I’d like to think that’s why disagreement is happening about this. No-one here actually, intentionally, wants to express homophobia. I’d hope.
27/10/2011 at 21:09 Dozer says:

It’s some sort of horrible cycle.

1) A particular condition is discovered and a particular word is given to it as a name.
“This person has ABC characteristic.”

2) Wrong-headed people use that word as an insult
“You’re like a person who has ABC! ABC is bad! Therefore you are bad and should feel bad!”

3) The meaning of the word has changed.
“This person has ABC characteristic, which is bad.”

4) Well-meaning people find a new word without that connotation.
“This person has DEF characteristic.”

5) The original word now only has meaning as an insult, because people who aren’t set on causing offence would choose the word that doesn’t have the “…which is bad” connotation.

6) GOTO(2);

27/10/2011 at 16:10 Nick says:

Wearing your own (shitty) bands t-shirt.. major faux pas.

27/10/2011 at 16:15 nanowired says:

On a side note, Alliance vs Horde mentality has no place in WoW, as despite their best efforts to ferment hate between the sides, Everyone ends up working together and being all sunshine and happiness through the same groups anyways.

27/10/2011 at 16:18 plugmonkey says:

I don’t think people who say cocksucker relate it to homosexuality. They don’t even relate it to sucking cock. Like you don’t really relate ‘wanker’ to masturbation or ‘bastard’ to unmarried parentage.

That was, in all likelihood, the least offensive incredibly offensive rant I’ve ever heard. It’s certainly the least homophobic incredibly homophobic rant I’ve heard, in that it wasn’t really at all homophobic. I would imagine they played it because, origin of some of the swearwords aside, it’s just a famous person being comically partisan about their video game. What with all the handwringing?

Either this is true, or Mr. Wu from Deadwood is the most offensively homophobic character in film or television history. How dare a respected broadcaster such as HBO create a character with such and obvious homophobic bias! I’m appalled!

I wonder what is happening to RPS sometimes. The high horse rarely gets to see the inside of its stable.

27/10/2011 at 16:18 Peterkopf says:

Clearly calling the Alliance gay means that you want to oppress homosexuals. And telling them to die means that you want someone to exterminate them in a gaschamber. OKAY THEN, THAT’S SOUND REASONING.

27/10/2011 at 16:19 Peterkopf says:

Clearly calling the Alliance gay means that you want to oppress homosexuals. And telling them to die means that you want someone to exterminate them in a gaschamber.

…. Okay then, that’s sound reasoning.

27/10/2011 at 16:56 Sirbolt says:

I think you should go with the first one.

27/10/2011 at 16:20 MacGuffin says:

Um, the BlizzCon video was censored, someone found the original and was then offended by it? It’s George “Corpsegrinder” Fischer for crying out loud, this video doesn’t rank in the top 100 offensive things he has said. The original video was funny because it was a serious interview that suddenly became about World of Warcraft. There are more deserving targets of scorn than this.

27/10/2011 at 16:27 Apples says:

Missing the point. A respectable company would have thought “This guy’s an idiot, we don’t want to be associated with that.” Blizzard thought the opposite of that! They thought “This is cool, let’s show it to everyone as an example of how cool people like our games!”

27/10/2011 at 16:24 Ultra Superior says:

Black metal is gay.

27/10/2011 at 16:45 Groove says:

You’re black metal.
27/10/2011 at 18:03 Ultra Superior says:

You can only find the ore of black metal deep in the supermassive black hole. BLACK HOLE.
27/10/2011 at 22:27 chackosan says:

On the contrary, it’s quite glum. Ideally, that is.

27/10/2011 at 16:25 Nakor The BlueRider says:

As a Cannibal Corpse Fan I am surprised at such a poor performance. The band try and be a offenive as possible, with songs about murder and rape so saying ‘X is gay’ is hardly shocking. Why Blizzard hired them is main question as they knew the band is controversial.

27/10/2011 at 16:37 Ultra Superior says:

Also the lead singer is horrendously fat. It’s the worst kind of obesity – with terrible head to ass proportion – the kind of obesity that gets him killed before 60.

Do they sing offensive and provocative songs about fat people too?
27/10/2011 at 17:02 warcode says:

@Ultra Superior, I don’t think they have to. Mainstream media does a good enough job of harassing fat people as it is. Because only certain people are worthy of equality.

27/10/2011 at 16:26 Someblokius says:

Disgraceful as the homophobic slurs are, and not belittling that in the slightest, the bit that shocked me the most is the whole ‘suicide is funny’ thing. I know that a certain proportion of the kids who infest the internet think it’s hilarious but for Blizzard to invite this pillock to laugh about wrist-slitting… And I don’t give a flying chuff if he’s doing it ‘ironically’. Anyone who thinks that kind of talk is healthy or pleasant is an utter shite. Ultimately I think Blizzard let themselves down here.

Yeah, I’m complaining that John Walker didn’t get offended enough. :P

27/10/2011 at 16:26 godgoo says:

Metal is so gay.

27/10/2011 at 16:31 demonarm says:

Rob Halford agrees with you.
27/10/2011 at 16:50 Nemrod says:

So does the Gorgoroth guy XD

27/10/2011 at 16:27 rocketman71 says:

Oh, Blizzard. I was merely disappointed in you. This brings a new low. VERY low.

Kotick must be ecstatic.

27/10/2011 at 16:37 Zepp says:

OMFG, this song is so gay.

27/10/2011 at 16:45 aircool says:

Huh. Fat sweaty grebo’s = instant fail before they even open their mouths.

27/10/2011 at 20:53 Uthred says:

Its bad to discriminate against homosexuals but fat people are ok?

27/10/2011 at 16:48 Kandon Arc says:

After reading this thread the thing that makes me the most upset is the lack of respect that the majority of posters have for people disagreeing with. On one side you have people invoking the ‘Political Correctness brigade’ as if the only people that could be offended by this are white knights. Then on the other side we have the ‘oh you don’t think faggot is inherently offensive? You must be a straight white male then’ as if a SWM can’t possibly think over the issue and come up with a valuable contribution or that SWM’s all think exactly alike. Sadly John seems to fall in this latter category.

This isn’t a clear cut issue. It’s possible to argue either side convincingly and reasonably – and it’s issue that is worth discussing, so good work in bringing it up John. Let’s try and elevate this above a Kotaku level ad hominem-athon.

27/10/2011 at 17:10 Benga says:

Go on then, lets hear the ‘convincing and reasonable argument’ for faggot or cocksucker not being homophobic language in this context.
27/10/2011 at 17:19 theleif says:

I’m pretty sure John is a SWM, so i don’t really get your point.
27/10/2011 at 17:22 Kandon Arc says:

I’d rather not get drawn in for fear of undermining my original point; but I think it’s not unreasonable to suggest that both faggot and cocksucker are no longer exclusively homophobic slurs. This man is clearly unpleasant, but his main view seems to be that Alliance players are wusses, which has been conflated with homosexuality, true, but I don’t think that’s what he driving at.

Regardless, I was mainly referring to the argument about whether faggot could be used in a non-homophobic way, to which there have been many reasonable responses throughout the thread, rather than trying to defend this dirtbag specifically.
27/10/2011 at 17:26 Kandon Arc says:

@theleif

I was referring to when someone argued that people were getting upset over nothing (granted he fell into the ‘fight Political Correctness’ crowd) and John replied:
“I’m guessing you’re… a gay Caribbean midget, right? I’m right, right?”

As if only a SWM would think this is a storm in a teacup.
27/10/2011 at 17:46 Benga says:

It used to be true, in britain at least, that if you were born out of wedlock you were a ‘bastard’ and as such you had less rights and equality than those born in wedlock. Thus an insult was born. Nowadays the term is used frequently and has lost its original meaning. On the whole being a ‘bastard’ in the proper meaning has no real detriment to any individual. Therefore the term has lost its bigoted connotations.

To call someone a Faggot is to associate them with a group of people who STILL face inequality and oppression. This reinforces the negative view of someone from that minority in the reigning majority; which doesnt help reduce inequality,

Therefore as someone who would like to see inequality reduced I see it as important to point out homophobia in our language when I see/hear it.

A lot of the people defending the use of the word Faggot as an insult, are ignoring the inequalities that the word represents.

27/10/2011 at 16:49 JackShandy says:

John, thanks for posting this stuff.

Well, wait, sorry. This post isn’t a big deal. It’s “Hey, Blizzard’s marketing was misguided, this guy acted like a tool.” I wish we could all just say “Yup” and move on – just because you mention “Saying gay slurs is bad”, this whole thing spins into a 7 page argument? Why? Why is this? I am broken and tired.

28/10/2011 at 07:44 Dorchadas says:

“Why? Why is this?”

Some people are really offended at the idea that their reflexive homophobia is bad.

So they defend themselves by saying other people shouldn’t get offended.

Cue 500+ comments.

27/10/2011 at 17:06 elpistolero says:

If you love and value freedom of speech – it means you must defend the right for people to say (particularly) the most vile and offensive types of speech -> However, it also means agree with the message, and you are free to heap shame on the speaker for being a f*cking infantile ignorant inbred Neanderthal embarrassment-to-humanity *sshole. ;)

27/10/2011 at 17:11 crizzyeyes says:

FYI, George Fisher (aka Corpsegrinder) has been an avid World of Warcraft player for a very long time, so I imagine that he either asked Blizzard for this performance or someone in Blizzard, knowing this, asked him and he was glad to accept.
Either way he’s just a pretty immature guy. It’s just his nature that he would think this is funny. This news article is a little silly for getting mad at him using the word “faggot” liberally.

27/10/2011 at 18:44 Cinnamon says:

So are you saying that the man has some sort of mental problem that gives him the intellect of a child and that it’s not politically correct to draw attention to it?

27/10/2011 at 17:13 LGM says:

What on earth is Blizzard thinking having the singer of Cannibal Corpse at the ‘con? Aside from being just an awful band musically, they’re sick freaks whose lyrics read like the ranting of a PCP freak who was strapped to a chair and forced to watch horror movies for 2 days straight.

Starcraft + Warcraft + DOTA + Diablo + Cannibal Corpse = someone at Blizzard is smoking crack?

27/10/2011 at 17:15 Unaco says:

I think everyone here is missing the Elephant in the room, so to speak…

… the one with greasy hair and the ‘Cannibal Corpse’ T-Shirt.

27/10/2011 at 17:20 zergrush says:

Blah, nothing worthy of note or that hasn’t been said before.

27/10/2011 at 17:28 automata says:

Why are so many people saying “don’t be offended they’re just words” getting all, dare I say it, offended over this article?

They’re just words.

27/10/2011 at 17:56 Maldomel says:

Because there are lots of people using homophobic words on a daily basis and not seeing w<hat's wrong with doing that.
Then they read an intelligent stuff about how it's a douche attitude and they deny reality (them being douches, at least on that particular point).
So they get offended because it is harder to accept your wrongs than to see them, throw them away and get better.

Basically, it's that.

27/10/2011 at 17:44 Maldomel says:

I know online it is pretty popular to call people “fags” or use many other homophobic terms for the sole purpose of being cool and shouting louder than the next guy, but to use it like that is just pathetic, whether there’s a meaning related to homophobia or not.

Blizzard (and any studio) should avoid encouraging and going with that kind of flow as much as possible.

27/10/2011 at 17:51 Eddy9000 says:

I think every argument around this issue must have been made in the 300 odd posts that I can’t be arsed to read, so I’d just like to thank RPS for bringing issues of predjudice to light in their articles, and treating computer games as a serious media rather than “just games”.

This is the kind of article that continually brings me back to this site, please keep up the good work.

27/10/2011 at 18:50 Jubaal says:

Aye Eddy, I agree. I always find it refreshing that RPS covers areas of gaming other sites tend to shy away from.
27/10/2011 at 19:21 Eddy9000 says:

although Jubal, I’ve just had a shuftie at destructiods reporting of it, and their comments section is actually more mature and anti-predjudice than the RPS comments! Sad times, I think the haters on this thread need to accept that this is the stance taken on RPS, and if they don’t like it they can read something else and stop cluttering up mature debate with hateful ignorant crap.

27/10/2011 at 17:53 Sagan says:

I’m kinda appalled by the RPS comment thread. I thought people here were smarter than this.

Well thanks for posting this John. And I suggest that you keep posting about things like this in the hope that every time some people in the comments are convinced by the more reasonable people.

27/10/2011 at 18:02 hoobajoo says:

Why the hell is everyone upset about in this article? Not Corpsegrinder’s amazingly bigoted rant, or Blizzard’s tacit endorsement of it, that is obviously upsetting. I mean John’s article: this is ROCK PAPER SHOTGUN, proud bastion of subjective opinion and personal bias. It has always been like this, and it is the reason I come to this site over others.

Calling Corpsegrinder out for wearing his own band’s shirt is the real story here. That is Metal Faux-Pas No. 1.

27/10/2011 at 18:02 Sardaukar says:

I can’t say that I care much for the article so much as this fiery comments section. This has been a very illuminating read, on both sides of the argument. It’s going to take weeks to digest all of this before I can discuss the issue confidently again.

27/10/2011 at 18:07 MythArcana says:

These guys had the chance to display a bit of class, but instead chose to give metal and PC gaming a bad name in one shot. This must have been Kotlick’s suggestion at one of the 137 ActiGizzard corporate parties they throw every year.

27/10/2011 at 18:14 codename_bloodfist says:

Lesson learned: read the article first, then watch the video. Would have saved me from listening to that musical masterpiece.

27/10/2011 at 21:14 Dozer says:

There’s a way to stop Flash from automatically loading, which I followed and then forgot what it is. If I want to watch a video I need to click on the Flash frame to load the YouTube frame, then again to get YouTube (or whatever streaming video site) to start playing the video.

That extra click is enough to reduce the amount of my life spent watching embedded videos. I think it makes it harder for websites to give my PC bad things too, which is probably why I did it in the first place.

27/10/2011 at 18:17 TsunamiWombat says:

I’m torn. obviously people are upset, they have a right to be upset. I’m watching both the edited and unedited versions though and none of the really offensive stuff made it into the edited version Blizzard showed.

Also it’s worth noting this mans diatribe, the unedited one…is pretty tame compared to the homophobic racist slurs you’ll get in online chat in most any multiplayer game.

27/10/2011 at 21:26 Dozer says:

But it’s depressing that Blizzard would represent themselves with someone who’s even mildly like that aspect of the MMO community. It implies that Blizzard aren’t opposed to the homophobic behaviour of MMO players. It’s not that Blizzard are responsible for the attitudes of their players – they’re not the nanny state. Just sad that they’d align themselves with someone whose comments would reinforce that behaviour.

I’m apparently too tired to write an analogy that doesn’t break Godwin’s Law, so I won’t.

27/10/2011 at 18:28 porps says:

black metal artist voices “extreme” views and swears a bit. what a shocker!
(btw, that isnt some kind of slur against robots of colour who enjoy painting…. seems i should make that clear since people round here have suddenly become hypersensitive and got all wrapped up in the whole political correctness rubbish)

27/10/2011 at 18:38 Ats24 says:

Is anyone seriously getting offended by this? this is the lead singer of a group named cannibal corpse… they have wrote songs like necropedophile and ****** with a knife. what did you expect from a death metal band
Everyone just needs to grow a backbone… this getting offended BS is really stupid. I cant even imagine how you can survive in day to day life if you get offended by a few words…

27/10/2011 at 18:46 Joof says:

Holy shit. This whole comment section is awful. Both sides just yelling passed each other and belittling and dehumanizing the other side. This is just awful.

27/10/2011 at 19:08 Cryo says:

You’re As Bad As They Are!
27/10/2011 at 21:27 Dozer says:

http://xkcd.com/774/
27/10/2011 at 22:34 Joof says:

Cyro: What? I’m not sure that applies?

Dozer: I guess that one works though.
27/10/2011 at 22:46 Dozer says:

aww, crap, and now it applies to me too.

:-(
28/10/2011 at 00:11 Joof says:

The alt-text clearly states there’s a once per conversation limit on it, so I think you’re in the clear.
28/10/2011 at 07:51 Dorchadas says:

“Cyro: What? I’m not sure that applies?”

One side wants to keep using words that many people find insulting, belittling, and dehumanizing.

The other said says that’s not nice and they should probably stop. It does not want to use different words that are insulting, belittling and dehumanizing.

You’re creating a false equivalency.

27/10/2011 at 18:47 pagad says:

Well, Mr. Fisher managed to exemplify the worst, most juvenile aspects of both videogaming and metal. Stay classy, Cannibal Corpse.

27/10/2011 at 19:52 Shooop says:

I’d expect nothing less from that septic tank of a “band.”

They’ve been around for over 15 years and have yet to record a half-decent death metal album.

27/10/2011 at 18:55 Jubaal says:

As many have said the infantile spoutings of the lead singer aren’t the real issue (Though I in no way condone them) it is Blizzards apparent condoning of his apparent juvenile and bigoted attitude that concerns me. As a company with such Global influence these says they should be more socially responsible.

27/10/2011 at 19:08 vash47 says:

This is the worst post I’ve seen on RPS.

27/10/2011 at 19:11 Jubaal says:

*Shows you the door*
27/10/2011 at 19:20 Benga says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#moreimportantly
27/10/2011 at 19:43 theleif says:

Then why did you write it?

27/10/2011 at 19:11 Jubaal says:

@ unitled – I’m totally with you there. It is one of the reasons I love RPS so much.

They may take our lives but they’ll never take our Waaaaaaalkeeeeeer!

27/10/2011 at 20:25 rayne117 says:

Maybe he’ll give you a cool bracelet if you stay down there long enough.
28/10/2011 at 09:17 Jubaal says:

Ooooohhhh shiny!

27/10/2011 at 19:16 Hoaxfish says:

Few things people probably already said:
1. I don’t think they’re smart to alienate 50% of their playerbase. I didn’t realise the Alliance/Horde thing was that serious, and I certainly don’t think Blizzard should act in a way that reinforces it outside the game.
2. Both the guy in the video-feed, and on-stage need to get a haircut. It’s not even the “okay-ish” long male hair… it’s some sort of frizzy greasy mess.
3. A staff-member’s Heavy Metal band? Reaaally? Why not get Bruce Willis to sing as well?
4. Ignoring the fact I don’t play WoW, or really care for Blizzard, this sort of thing is probably the most off-putting representation of “their product” I’ve seen yet. Along with the always-on DRM, and relations with Kotick.

All in all, I honestly expect a big gaming company to be a bit more sensible than this sort of thing…

27/10/2011 at 19:23 Ats24 says:

The alliance and horde thing isnt serious and what fisher said ISNT MEANT to be taken SERIOUSLY.
Secondly referring to someones apperance isnt really proving your point…
I can’t believe that people are such pussies about something as small as this. I really expected more from RPS.
27/10/2011 at 19:58 Hoaxfish says:

Yeaaa… but they really need a haircut!

Plus, I’m not a business whose PR relies on basically balancing “attitude” and assuming people will be offended. You don’t see teachers swearing in classrooms because “hey, I didn’t mean it, you shouldn’t be offended” etc.
27/10/2011 at 20:18 UnravThreads says:

R.E. Point 3: They’re not “a staff member’s band”, like it’s just something he does outside of work. They’re an “official” Blizzard band wholly comprised of Blizzard employees, and have been around since about Warcraft 3. They’ve also played Blizzcon most years. They’re not to be taken that seriously.

27/10/2011 at 19:17 Davie says:

Blizzard has done a really impressive job this last year of convincing me to never give them money again. Well played, guys. Keep it classy.

27/10/2011 at 19:21 Monchberter says:

Here’s Stewart Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

Why is it that most of the commentators here get so riled when someone finds a word that they are using BECAUSE of its offensive origins offensive that they have to start the old ‘political correctness’ rant.

Hate to say this, but you’re all people I would never ever want to associate myself with.

I’ve banned people from the TF2 server I used to run for less and guess what, most people were grateful that such hateful little shits no longer were ruining their game with hate speech

Grow up. Well done John Walker

P.S. here’s another bit of Stewart Lee satire on the ‘just a joke’ defense: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0i0RXMvzMs

27/10/2011 at 21:40 Ergates_Antius says:

Rather than try to come up with my own words to express my thoughts, I’ll take the easy route and just say:

^^^^ +1 for this.
27/10/2011 at 23:50 Gepetto says:

Excellent links – Stewart Lee pretty much sums up the situation.

+1
28/10/2011 at 01:19 Wulf says:

Remember what I said about wanting a telepathic laser to engrave wisdom into the collective mind of humanity?

Yeah, applies to this, too.

I completely agree with you and support you on this, too. It’s funny, I have a number of friends, some of whom are even of the straight and white sort, and I’ve never… not once… heard them use any kind of ethnic, sexist, or homophobic slur. Not once! And I speak with them regularly (over voice, too). And when it does come up, not said by them, they never find it to be ‘okay.’

As I’ve said before, these are the nicest damned people I’ve ever had the fortune of knowing, and very often I wish all of humanity was like that. I often worry that I’m to blame for not seeing some sort of common illness that’s causing physical brain damage that results in the sort of sociopathy, misogyny, homophobia, racism, and so on that other people use and find ‘okay.’

I can’t help but think that there may be something behind this inability that some people have to be able to relate to someone else’s feelings, and how they can’t even recognise when they’re causing suffering at all, even to the point where they may derive pleasure from it. This is more common than not, it seems, and I wonder if there’s some kind of cause behind it.

Or maybe I’m the broken one. But if that’s the case then I don’t want to be healthy.

But sometimes I do wish that I could give every human a short briefing on compassion, understanding, and empathy. And why hate-speech in general is such a horrible thing.
28/10/2011 at 09:52 Jubaal says:

Excellent Monchberter, spot on links.

I haven’t seen any Stuart Lee in a while, cheers. Glad I’m not the only one who dislikes Top Gear.

27/10/2011 at 19:24 Erithtotl says:

Come on, the worst part of this is that Blizzard has a convention, and that people attend.

I notice the rest of Cannibal Corpse has the sense to stay away.

27/10/2011 at 19:25 Mihkel says:

video games

27/10/2011 at 19:29 Mutak says:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424906852

One of the most half-assed apologies i’ve ever seen.

Hey guys, we read and heard all the feedback from BlizzCon this year. The Corpsegrinder bit was never intended to be taken seriously. We are sorry that we offended anyone; everything at our shows is just meant in fun. Thank you all for speaking up. We’ll definitely keep this in mind for future shows.

Our humblest apologies,

Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain

They’re not sorry about what happened – they’re sorry people can’t take a joke. They don’t disagree with the sentiments expressed – it’s ok to say those things if you’re just kidding. Homophobic slurs are funny, as is telling people to go commit suicide.

Oh, and who’s apologizing? Not the company – the band, and not any particular person in the band – no names. No one taking any actual responsibility for it. And let’s gloss over the fact that the band is made up of high-ranking employees of Blizzard. Despite that fact, Blizzard is totally not responsible for this.

Honestly though, that’s just the kind of crap you expect from big companies – CYA.

27/10/2011 at 19:33 Gassalasca says:

I am sorry that I don’t have time right now to read all the comments, but I think this Language Log thread is very much worth linking to:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1673

27/10/2011 at 19:37 oceanclub says:

“One other point, how is cocksucker homophobic at all? I mean most women are cocksuckers, and gay men also suck cocks. Plus it’s a wonderful and loving act. Am I missing something here?”

Yes you are. The whole point of it as an insult is that it’s homophobic and misogynist, implying such an act is degrading. If you disagree, please explain why “pussylicker” isn’t a commonly used insult.

Since I am not gay, it is not up to me to decide is “faggot” is no longer homophobic or an insult. I remember a recent episode where Ricky Gervais “bravely” fought the mother of a mentally disabled child for the right to use “mong”. I’m more impressed by Tim Minchin’s reaction upon hearing the word “tranny” is considered an insult. Instead of being defensive, he learned something and moved on: http://considertheteacosy.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/this-is-how-you-do-it-words-privilege-and-the-stuff-you-dont-know/

I suggest those clamouring for the fight to use homophobic words to likewise, and perhaps expand their vocabulary to other words.

P.

28/10/2011 at 01:10 Wulf says:

Precisely.

This language of ours is a conglomeration of many tongues, we have a good number of words that we can use to express dismay or anger. If you’re a decent person, you have other words to do these things which aren’t homophobic, ethnic, or sexual slurs, you don’t need to inform people as to what you think the status of their life should be.

The thing of it is is that homophobic slurs have their origins in particularly nasty affairs, when homophobia was all the rage and quite the in thing to be. There are so many other words out there, so why pick those that are linked to some particularly nasty acts? See, to me, to continually use homophobic words is like… it’s an appreciation of the homophobia of the past, it’s like saying that you salute those people who’ve caused the likes of me no small amount of pain.

And why would you do that? How can you not realise that? There are other words out there, other words without such horrible origins, other words which aren’t so charged. But this guy, and people like him? They’re just going to go right back to using homophobic slurs, and worse.

I guess that’s what’s bothering me. All I hear out of this at the end of the day is: “Sure, we have no problem traumatising people who’ve had bad experiences with homophobia. We’re down with that.”

27/10/2011 at 19:39 D3xter says:

So RPS = the left version of FOX News gaming press, finding offense in boobs, perceived sexism and slurs everywhere it can and trying to bring the sinister evil-doing perpetrators to the righteous justice of “MY OPINION ON EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS RIGHT!”?

27/10/2011 at 20:26 rayne117 says:

OMG YOU OFFENDED ME SO MUUUUUUCH!!!!!!!

Wait, haha, I’m white! I don’t know what it’s like to be offended!
27/10/2011 at 21:03 D3xter says:

Hey me too, let’s meet up and devise how we can oppress everyone else and bring back slavery.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/headscratchy/PaintTopHatPipe.jpg
27/10/2011 at 22:59 Benga says:

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#enjoyit

27/10/2011 at 19:43 Metonymy says:

I don’t want pro- or anti- gay politics in my game news.

Please exercise a little more discretion.

27/10/2011 at 20:02 theleif says:

You’re being sarcastic, right?
Right?
27/10/2011 at 20:24 alundra says:

Actually, I second that, I like games to be an outlet, and game news to be free from **politically correct (or incorrect) political news** is what I look forward to.
27/10/2011 at 20:34 TillEulenspiegel says:

There are about a billion sites on the web that post bland, thought-free gaming news. Please go to one of them.
27/10/2011 at 23:01 Benga says:

There is no part of our society that is completely separated from the rest – its all one. Learn to deal with it.
28/10/2011 at 01:16 Metonymy says:

Benga

My statement applies to all viewers.

Your statement applies to some viewers.

The subject matter is respect towards readers. Placing continuously debated politics and religion into a gaming forum is disrespectful. If you disagree on something as clear as this, then how can you ask someone to respect your other, less obvious preferences?
28/10/2011 at 04:16 jrodman says:

Claiming that topics which could be considered political debate has no place in game discussion is disrespectful. It’s essentially asking other people who know that it does have a place to shut up.
28/10/2011 at 13:19 Hanban says:

@Metonymy

This has, however, been standard practice for as long as I have read RPS. These types of posts appear every now and then. They have always featured articles about gaming relating to racism, homophobia and misogyny and ultimately RPS choose their own content. They have no obligation to respect your wishes about the content they put out. Their integrity and taste decides that.

If you don’t like it, you can either skip posts relating to these topics, or find some other site that caters more to your taste.

RPS doesn’t just discuss game releases, DRM, or Fred Wester, the blog discusses a wide variety of issues regarding games. That is why I choose to come to RPS as opposed to the other gaming news websites.
28/10/2011 at 13:32 MSJ says:

And it is ultimately my decision to block you, Metonymy. Like I am doing after this reply.

27/10/2011 at 19:44 colinmarc says:

Yeah, definitely inappropriate for Blizzcon or any large audience. Misguided is right. That said, lets just move on, shall we? It’s not clear that the guys are actually homophobic, at least. Maybe just crude.

I am dissapoint, Blizzard.

27/10/2011 at 19:47 Bensam123 says:

Yeah, context was completely removed. That’s the way most people in the WoW culture are and it’s completely acceptable. If you’re being technical you could even through racism in there as he is raging on specific races of alliance… It wasn’t intended to be used as “I really think all homosexual people should really die”, rather how you normally talk about other people in game. The guy is laughing and smiling when talking about it too, it’s easy to see it isn’t unbridled hatred.

If you think that’s bad, you should play MW online on the Xbox sometime… the hatred that flows through there doesn’t have such nice overtones.

27/10/2011 at 20:27 Daniel Rivas says:

Alternatively, you could go fuck yourself.
28/10/2011 at 04:21 jrodman says:

Some wow players are frequently coarse.

Most wow players are not.

Some wow players may accept this flavor of obscenity.

Most do not.

In a generalized audience, it is not at all acceptable.

In context as a cannibal corpse fan, you might read it as shock value for the sake of amusement at its fatuousness. That is not the context into which it was delivered.

To simplify: That kind of talk, even censored out, in the actual game would be sufficient to action an account if reported. How then does it become acceptable to broadcast the talk at their event?

27/10/2011 at 19:49 owenj says:

I’m fairly positive that everyone defending Blizzard, the singer and “Free Speech wtf can’t take a joke?” are most likely:

Somewhat privileged (monetarily)
Heterosexual
White

If not, I apologize for making such a generalization, but if you are; this could be perhaps why you are so naive in regards to the effect words such as this can have.

And while yes, you might have a right of free speech and to use whatever offensive language you want, it also means you’re an asshole.

27/10/2011 at 21:18 Wulf says:

Can we use some sort of telepathic laser to engrave this into the collective mind of humanity?

27/10/2011 at 19:49 Shooop says:

I am so very, very glad I have never taken much interest in this game. Obviously Blizzard is trying to reach the CoD Xbox player crowd to whom death threats are their way of telling you “Damn, nice shot.”

27/10/2011 at 21:17 Wulf says:

I’m not sure whether my feelings of gratification, vindication, or schadenfreude apply the most, here.
28/10/2011 at 01:25 Shooop says:

Smug superiority complex jokes aside now.

Who thought this was a good idea? Who the living hell did they run this by and got the reply, “Yeah that’s great! A shitty death metal band that only appeals to really sexually frustrated teenagers and a stereotypical talking lump-of-fat player throwing sexually-themed insults at other people? Do it!”

What kind of response were they hoping for? Who’s their audience? This is worse than Dr. Pepper’s ad telling roughly half the population they shouldn’t drink their new product simply because they’re female. It’s nothing but gibberish and insults. Who watches this and thinks, “Damn, I want to play this game now!” instead of how they should avoid it like a stranger on the subway with open sores?

You’re good at explaining things Wulf. Help me out here.
28/10/2011 at 02:19 TillEulenspiegel says:

Who thought this was a good idea?

Well, look around at many of the comments here – they are real people, unfortunately. It’s not a small minority, and it’s probably not too far off from a representative sample. It only takes the one person to think “this is edgy!!!” and a few more to be indifferent.

Behold, the power of willful ignorance.
28/10/2011 at 03:33 Cryo says:

Well, look around at many of the comments here – they are real people.

Nope.

27/10/2011 at 20:13 Ultra Superior says:

He’s gonna sing a song of the past
How he plays the shitty WOW that sucks ass

I’d rather have a buffallo
Take a diarrhea dump in my ear
I’d rather eat the rotten asshole
Of a road killed skunk and down it with beer

He’s the dumbest gamer you’ve ever heard, he’s the angry cannibal corpse nerd.

27/10/2011 at 20:17 fenriz says:

I don’t get it, is George Fishing(tipsy, and joking and friendly easy chattering) alone going to pay for years of internet mostly “harmless and infantile” pseudo homophobia?

He’s not serious about those slurs, he’s not even remotely thinking about real homosexual persons, whom im sure he totally respects. I think he has benign amused eyes, i know many metallers, they’re the most goodhearted people at heart.

C’mon, Mr. Walker.

27/10/2011 at 21:15 Wulf says:

You’re a [race] person, I just called you a filthy and unfortunate [racial slur].

I am, of course, Not Serious™, because that makes everything okay.

How the hell does your mind work?

27/10/2011 at 20:24 Ultra Superior says:

If you’re about to jump on a bandwagon – make sure the band isn’t cannibal corpse.

27/10/2011 at 20:29 Snargelfargen says:

@Cryo

Always make a point of engaging with the worst comments, because anything that makes them think about their viewpoint is a good thing. Shutting somebody out just perpetuates the problem. And yeah, nobody ever admits they are wrong on the internet. But some of those proud people do go to bed and wake up the next day with a changed opinion.
I am often guilty of this.

27/10/2011 at 20:31 Cryo says:

Things like this one don’t “think”. They just mechanically react to stimuli. There’s no self-awareness there. You are talking into the void.

27/10/2011 at 20:35 Bostec says:

I have no opinion either way. I’m just posting in the most commented thread on RPS. I was there maaaaaaaannn (womaaaaaaannnn)

27/10/2011 at 20:45 DaFishes says:

Wow. It’s like Privilege Denying Dude threw up all over the comments section of this post.

27/10/2011 at 21:13 Wulf says:

That… that really sums it up, doesn’t it? And somehow knowing that that sums it up so well makes me feel better.

27/10/2011 at 20:46 WhatKateDoes says:

Pinch of salt I think, but to be honest he’s just a bit embarassing. All that “hard” man attitude for a game that will soon have cuddly kung-fu pandas.

Also.. a video that I recommend for anyone wanting a laugh at this kind of archaic attitude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in9SiDtJLaU

27/10/2011 at 21:31 theleif says:

+1
Also a good example of right context. And brilliant humour, of course.

27/10/2011 at 20:52 yourgrandma says:

sooo… where is the controversy? I don’t get it….

28/10/2011 at 01:48 bpatrol says:

Then maybe you should take steps as to understanding why people would be offended? Ignorance should never be an excuse.

27/10/2011 at 20:54 WaveMotion says:

Good work RPS, as usual. You’re pissing off all the right people in my book. Keep up the good work. You are one of only two websites that I have adblock disabled for.

To all the ‘context’, ‘get over it’, ‘ I’ll say what I like’, ‘it doesn’t mean the same anymore’ etc etc people;

At best you are enabling bigots. Seriously, you think there aren’t any bigots any more? I must have imagined the ones that have attacked me then. I’ve been kicked, punched, spat at and called every name you can think of for being gay. And I pass for straight pretty easily (not that I should have to). I dread to think what life would have been like if I couldn’t hide it (and lots can’t). This in one of the most ‘progressive’ cities in the world. London. Wow human kind really has a long way to go.

So thanks for making my life hell when I was a teenager. Yes, you who think you can say faggot and it has no effect. You are just creating a culture in which it’s ok to use that word. Your meaning is irrelevant because everyone (yes, everyone) knows why that word is used as an insult. What do you think it’s like to be 11 and realise you are gay only to be surrounded by people who use words like faggot on a daily basis? Yeah, what a great way to grow up.

27/10/2011 at 22:51 Syra says:

faggot or esp (US) fagot1 (ˈfæɡət)
—n
1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything
27/10/2011 at 22:57 kaiserbob says:

Let me give you some perspective. As someone who grew up and still lives in Texas I have never once heard someone called a ‘faggot’ in a homophobic manner. That doesn’t mean it never happens but I have only ever heard it used as generic insult similar ‘bitch’, ‘cunt’, or ‘dick’. So for me and most of my friends in their 20′s there are no homophobic ‘Let’s go beat up all the faggots’ connotations to it. I am not going to stop using it based upon your experience growing up in London, I’m sorry.

Words only have the power you assign to them.
27/10/2011 at 23:02 oceanclub says:

Ah yes, Texas: the gay paradise:

http://www.queerty.com/the-2-austin-gay-softball-players-jumped-by-4-men-in-early-morning-bashing-20100223/
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/12/texas-austin-cops-indifferent-to-gay.html
http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2010/11/texas-man-charged-with-murder-of-classmate-over-alleged-gay-sexual-overtures/

P.
27/10/2011 at 23:09 Unaco says:

@Kaiserbob,

You may have not been using it in a homophobic manner. But you used it as an insult… that’s the problem. Why use a term for a homosexual male as an insult? Why is being gay seen as a negative thing? Why is labelling someone as gay, however erroneously, used as an insult? By using it insultingly, you’re saying that being gay is something to disdain, that you view it negatively.

I’m not saying you yourself ARE homophobic, or do view Homosexuals negatively. But, when you use that word, even just an insult, not directed at an actual gay man, you are applying or voicing some negative connotations of homosexuals. You’re saying “This is a negative thing. You are this negative thing”.
28/10/2011 at 01:12 Shooop says:

@Syra:

That’s actually why “faggot” is an insult when used like that on a person – it’s saying “you’re something that should be burned.”

27/10/2011 at 21:43 Corvus Metus says:

On one hand, people are overrating. Was what “Corpsegrinder” said distasteful? Certainly, but mind you he fronts a band whose cover art features zombies in compromising positions and have such charming song titles like “Nercopedophile” and “Fucked With A Knife”. Cannibal Corpse have been playing the shock card for ages.

On the other hand, do I think that there was some latent homophobia in his comments. Yes, but he’s also likely highly misogynistic. So fuck him, in general for being a shitty human being.

28/10/2011 at 01:53 bpatrol says:

It’s less that he said it, and more that Blizzard saw that video and thought “Yes. This is what we will show to introduce him to the stage.”

27/10/2011 at 21:56 James G says:

Well this thread was thoroughly depressing, and I wasn’t even one of the people who had my entire worth as a human being called into question just because of who I prefer to spend my life with.

27/10/2011 at 22:55 Dozer says:

You’re not a WoW player?
27/10/2011 at 23:49 Dapper Dan says:

@ Dozer
Very well played sir.
I literally lol’d :)

27/10/2011 at 21:56 geokes says:

Really? What a ridiculous overreaction.

27/10/2011 at 21:58 ballerorjustnotwhatever says:

get ripped or die mirin’

27/10/2011 at 22:00 coldvvvave says:

First world problems.

28/10/2011 at 00:51 Ultra Superior says:

+1
28/10/2011 at 00:58 jrodman says:

Because reinforced homophobia has nothing to do with people getting shot in other parts of the world.

Yeah, cheap shot, but you asked for it by being dismissive.
29/10/2011 at 15:16 Ultra Superior says:

Not dismissive to problems that undeniably exist in all parts of the world. This thread proves the level of luxury we all live in. It’s a good thing to have this thread and this luxury.

Now if you were really fighting for the survival of your family in a third world country, offensive words at blizzcon would be the least of your problems.

27/10/2011 at 22:46 Mario Pajas says:

he he… yeah, very funny video.

27/10/2011 at 22:55 Giftmacher says:

“No bad words. Bad thoughts, bad intentions.

And words.”

27/10/2011 at 23:02 jhng says:

Cannibal Corpse? How desperately passe. Weren’t they last seen in the Ace Ventura movie?

27/10/2011 at 23:52 Dapper Dan says:

I hate how many people don’t know what political correctness is.
Not calling someone a faggot isn’t political correctness. It’s common decency.

27/10/2011 at 23:54 johnpeat says:

Well this thread demonstrated that the so-called ‘ great community’ here really isn’t that great.

10 pages of childish arguments from BOTH sides – not much common sense inbetween.

Shame…

28/10/2011 at 00:52 Wulf says:

It’s hard to exercise common sense in regards to a topic that one might be emotionally scarred by, due to past events, and something that they’ve needed therapy for. I’m sorry, but saying something like that and being so completely inconsiderate and dispassionate to people who might be very emotional does make you look like a jackass. To be frank.

So I’m afraid that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. And really, there’s little else more childish than calling someone out on being childish for being emotionally affected by this. Your attempts to put yourself above the rabble show your colours and nature for what they are.

Maybe these are things you might want to consider.

27/10/2011 at 23:59 Anders Wrist says:

I’m just surprised a metal band played, instead of some shitty pop band.

Also lol @ people acting all offended by this.

28/10/2011 at 01:34 bpatrol says:

Are you shocked that homosexual gamers would be offended by this, or that they exist? Why is it that getting offended by this is so hilarious? Crazy queers takin shit too seriously?

28/10/2011 at 00:06 Lucifalle says:

I’ve just lost all faith in the RPS community.
I was bullied at school because of being gay. A homophobic man called me a “dyke” and then tried to drive over me with his car. I’ve had slurs shouted at me on the streets when walking hand in hand with my girlfriend. I attempted suicide when I was 15. Most of my gay friends have experienced some degree of bullying/homophobia because of their sexual orientation. This whole thing just makes me depressed.

Homophobia is not a joke :(.

28/10/2011 at 00:27 aerozol says:

I feel bad for you, but know that Cannibal Corpse wasn’t trying to put you down by saying that. Their entire job is using offensive language to maximum impact, but their usual audience understands that none of it is meant seriously. You’re not their audience, so you misunderstand the nature of the act that they’re performing on stage, which is unfortunate, but definitely don’t get the impression, if it makes you feel bad, that they give a shit about your sexual orientation. They don’t.
28/10/2011 at 00:48 Wulf says:

“Ha ha, it was a joke.” changes nothing.

When you use words that are emotionally charged, you have to deal with the consequences.

The whole just kidding around angle doesn’t change the fact that the words were used. And the ‘apology’ shows that the guy doesn’t even realise what he did wrong in the first place, which has me all the more convinced that he’s a homophobic jerk.

So no, it wouldn’t be any different than if he’d used an ethnic slur, or used feminism in a derogatory way.

He’s just an arsehole, and like I said, very probably an extremely homophobic one. Simple as.
28/10/2011 at 00:53 Cinnamon says:

I lost faith in the RPS community when I signed up to the steam group and got daily messages telling me to join MP games in some FPS or other. I don’t play no online man shoot bros.
28/10/2011 at 01:10 aerozol says:

Wulf, he’s not saying ‘ha ha it’s a joke’, because it was never meant as the the ‘joke’ you’re taking it as. It’s language being used in a manner that has divided meaning among different groups, and in this case was used with the wrong audience.
If everybody who uses the word ‘fag’ is a homophobe, regardless of context, you have a VERY big problem on your hands.

And the consequences that they will deal with is selling a little more of their next album, because this is what they feed off. They’ll be super gutted about those consequences, I’m sure!
“people get upset about death metal, death metal community shocked”
28/10/2011 at 01:35 bpatrol says:

I’d love to know the context where using fag isn’t a homophobic remark.
28/10/2011 at 01:56 aerozol says:

Well, gay people use it amongst themselves all the time.
You’re saying, they’re homophobic? Think a little deeper. Homophobic means a dislike or put-down of gays, but the word ‘fags’ doesn’t exist in a vacuum of its own, with the meaning that you prescribe it.

fag
1. to tire or weary by labor; exhaust

Meanings change and language evolves. The origins of the word as a negative term may have been truly offensive, but youth around where I live don’t mean it as such, and would probably be upset if a gay person from somewhere else took it personally. Does this make them homophobic? Shit no.
28/10/2011 at 09:11 marlin says:

@bpatrol

Asking for a cigarette in England.

28/10/2011 at 00:16 Arglebargle says:

Assholes are the same color the world over…..

28/10/2011 at 00:34 Dozer says:

The fact that knowledge like this exists is why I’m glad I don’t work for the endoscopy clinic. There are some facts I’d just rather not know.
28/10/2011 at 02:19 Malawi Frontier Guard says:

Not true.

Let me show you my research.

28/10/2011 at 00:23 aerozol says:

Read a lot of comments, and just wanted to say: Woo, Cannibal Corpse!
It’s their job to offend people, that’s how they make their $. They’ve said much much much worse, so it’s kind of funny when RPS, who clearly has no experience or interest in their kind of music, gets up in arms about their choice of words.
I’ve used ‘fag’ for a long time to mean ‘lame’ (and no, my gay friends aren’t offended by it, and I am self-conscious about it, and have asked them), but this is in NZ, and we have different language usages. I’m not saying that no gay people should be offended by it- it’s a word that carries weight and history. However you have to consider contextual useage, and in this case it’s just plain NOT ‘homophobic’, which denotes a certain hatred or fear of gay people, because that’s clearly not the intent or emotion behind it. Is it misplaced, and exposing certain behaviors to an audience that perhaps doesn’t want to hear it? Yes. And on a certain level it’s definitely good that there’s an outcry.
But Cannibal Corpse makes a job of offending EVERY type of person, straight or gay, on so many levels, that when people who are clueless about them get upset about this, they’re really missing the point. You don’t take death metal lyrics seriously. Ever. The only people who do are class 10 douches, and 98% of the metal community definitely don’t. It’s a joke, an image. If you want to get upset, post some goregrind covers of girls being murdered in the most explicit ways possible, while getting raped in the worst ways possible, and write about how offensive it is. Because it is! But it’s just pointless, because few people here are the audience for those albums, and those who are the audience, understand that it’s a meaningless show, a coded visual display, that signifies various things about the music, to attract or detract certain audiences (eg most of RPS, who are meant to have ‘this’ reaction).

In conclusion: It’s definitely not homophobic, unless you enjoy misapplying words liberally. However, bad choices were made regarding environment and audience, who could really only have this reaction.

Also- Honestly, the night elves are seriously gay. No, really. I actually have always assumed that the ‘not mentioned’ undercurrent of all their visual styles and writings, not just in WoW related material, is that they are reeeal gay. That their males like the cock. I don’t have a problem with that at all, it’s just something I may have assumed wrong? And would it make calling them ‘fags’ more, or less offensive? Depends on the audience, eh (;

28/10/2011 at 01:36 Eddy9000 says:

So if I started using the word ‘nigger’ to describe something as being lame would you think it was okay, just because I wasn’t using it to directly insult a black person? Like if the dude in the video had said “those stupid nigger night elves”, can you see why that would be offensive yeah?

Using a word commonly used to denigrate minority groups as a general insult still trades on the idea that these groups of people are undesireable. That’s why you’re using the words ‘fag’ and ‘gay’ rather than ‘yogurt’ and ‘bananna’ to describe your dislike of something. Ask yourself why the word ‘fag’ is an insult, don’t you think it might have something to do with persecutory social attitudes towards homosexuals?

And those in the audience only find it a joke, if indeed they do, because it legitimises their own predjudices. From the sound of it if Cannibal Corpse really wanted to offend their fan base then they could just put an image of a regular gay male couple on their album cover indulging in a sensitive act of love, and write song lyrics about how great their night down a gay club was. There’s a reason they don’t try to court offence in this way.
28/10/2011 at 01:49 aerozol says:

Haha, to your nigger ‘argument’, absolutely.
This is shown by a social group of black people referring to themselves as ‘niggers’ all the time. Because of their context (being black, and possibly in a rap video etc), it’s NOT offensive to their target audience (people who watch those rap videos). Context is EVERYTHING.
If those same people used it to mean ‘lame’, it wouldn’t change that the word is offensive in certain context, to certain audiences, but not in others.

And don’t try to pretend you know everything about the scene that CC moves within. I’m in there, and your opinions are as laughable as The Sun’s opinion on Video games. They don’t know shit about video games, and you don’t know shit about death metal, so don’t start throwing judgement.
28/10/2011 at 01:59 Eddy9000 says:

Yes, CONTEXT is very important, so you’ll agree that the CONTEXT in your example of a black person using the word nigger as a term of endearment to another black person in a video aimed at black people is a very different CONTEXT to my example of a white person using the word nigger as an insult in a conference attended by mostly white people. Now who’s example is closer to this incident of a straight person using the word faggot as an insult when addressing a conference attended mostly by straight people?

I would agree that context is hugely important. Look at the immeadiate context here: straight man, addressing other straight men in an industry where homophobia is often commented on as being a problem. Look at the historical and cultural context, gay men have been discriminated against in the workplace and in public, by the law, and by the mental health act throughout recent history, and they have a much higher rate of suicide and physical assault due to their being labeled by words like ‘fag’ as an undesireable minority.

So I’d say the context here is exactly what makes it so offensive.

(And as for not knowing shit about the death metal scene, exactly how experienced are you in the gay scene? If you had more of an argument you wouldn’t resort to the insult and assumption in your last paragraph)
28/10/2011 at 02:06 aerozol says:

Argue with myself? How clever of you! (ahh, edited out as well. great.)

And your inference that no gay people listen to Cannibal Corpse, or attend Blizzcon, would certainly make your point a great one, if it were at all true.
In any case calling someone ‘homophobic’ (eg hating gays), because they used the word ‘fag’, and saying it ‘doesn’t matter if they hate gays or not, the word offends people!’, is just plain stupid. Can people see that?
Am I saying that people can’t be offended by it? No! Of course not! But using the word doesn’t automatically make you ‘hate gays’, because of its origin!

Edit: And I’m not saying it would be ok to call someone a ‘fag’ in the workplace, just because you don’t mean it as such. I am actually very pro political correctness. But again, it’s about where and how it’s used.

Edit response edit: I don’t make any judgements of homosexuals, thank you very much, but accusing me of that sure weakens what I’m saying, eh?
Edit (again!): Removed that upon actually reading my posts? Good idea.

Edit (again again, hooh boy): A lot a lot, actually. Not sure what last paragraph you’re referring to, but sorry if I insulted anyone. And ‘having more of an argument’? What more do I need? I’m saying that saying ‘fag’ doesn’t make you homophobic regardless of if you dislike gays or not!
28/10/2011 at 02:54 Eddy9000 says:

I havent said that someone using the word fag makes them homophobic, im saying that the fact the word is used as an insult is indicative of homophobic attitudes in society, and perpetuates these. Im sure that the word is used by caring and thoughtful people like yourself all the time, without their realising the harmthe word and the social attitudes that allow it to exist cause to people.

I dont think there are many gay cannibal corpse fans honestly if their lead singer uses words like fag so casually, but some people do internalise predjudice and hopelessly try to ally themselves with it by hating themselves. I see lots in my work as a clinical psychologist.

I edited my last paragraph several times because I wanted to get my point across well, if I had seen that you had answered i would have added an edit mark. The last one is my final wording, dunno if you want to edit your post to reflect that, your choice. I do think that if you tell a gay man he has no right to an opinion about the use of the word fag by a metal singer because he doesnt listen to metal, you should be prepared to be challenged as to how much you know about being gay. Ive never seen a black metal concert but I have been beaten up whilst being called a fag so i think i can have an opinion eh?
28/10/2011 at 03:22 aerozol says:

No, I agree, but my dislike of this article, that you were commenting about, is that it assumes that Cannibal Corpse was making homophobic remarks, purely because of their use of the word ‘fag’.
I also don’t think a gay man shouldn’t be insulted by this- I took pains to note this in my original post. That’s their freedom, but it doesn’t mean that every usage of the word promotes homophobia. I know you probably see the damage caused by the term, often used innocently, in people you see, so it’s not really something I want to be trying to promote or justify, for sure.
But I think it’s unfortunate it was used in this totally inappropriate situation, truly ignorant, but people on a gaming site being up in arms over what a death metal singer says, is a real waste of breath, and time, that will only sell them more albums in the end. It’s just a comfortable little outcry, in a comfortable situation, just like tabloids getting upset about video games. It lets their readers rant and feel angry about it, although it’s saying little about the actual situation, which their readers honestly couldn’t care less about.

I’d rather not edit my post to reflect your ‘final’ posting, as most of it is you trying to paint me in a certain (presumptuous) light which may change how my statements are read by others, which is annoying. For all you know, I’m gay, or straight, or trans, but that should have little bearing on what I’m trying to say. I like that you changed your mind about most of it, but next time edit before posting.

I’ve been beaten by people who called me ‘fag’ too, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. And ‘black metal’ has nothing to do with this band btw.

28/10/2011 at 01:28 Eddy9000 says:

Does everybody know that the word ‘faggot’ is a widely used term of abuse for homosexuals, and its use as a more general word of offence perpetuates the idea that there is something wrong with homosexuality?

Has everyone worked out that words that denigrate groups of people grow from, represent and perpetuate negative social attitudes, which lead to the very real persecution and suffering of these people?

Are we all in agreement that a multinational corporation having a celebrity at their conference using the word ‘faggot’ to market their game is unnacceptable?

It’s not fucking rocket science.

28/10/2011 at 02:35 aerozol says:

“Are we all in agreement that a multinational corporation having a celebrity at their conference using the word ‘faggot’ to market their game is unnacceptable?”

Absolutely!
28/10/2011 at 03:10 alundra says:

- No, faggot is a word with many meanings, if words have such power over you so as to make you believe where’s something wrong with homosexuality, it’s because you believe it in the first place, others are what they are regardless of words or whatever, and don’t need reinforcement stemming from politically correct words, leave them.

- People get bullied all the time because they didn’t stand up in the first place, if someone bullies you and you let them, you are reaping what you sow, what is it with homosexual people that they yell for equality but want to be treated different?? all kinds of people suffer from bullying, for all kinds of reason, gender, race, religion, economic and social status, whatever, what happened to standing up for what you are with dignity??

- A multinational corporation dedicated to make games made an event to advertise their products to the freaks that buys those same products, they got on stage a low profile rock band and some drunken fat fuck that has no idea what’s he talking about, who do you think is going to care about this?? stop acting like if it was the world’s end.
28/10/2011 at 09:16 demonarm says:

So you’re saying it’s always the victim’s fault. At least this makes clear where you’re coming from.
29/10/2011 at 14:18 Eddy9000 says:

I think ‘unnacceptable” is very different to “the worlds end”. And whilst the word “faggot” has several meanings I doubt very much the singer was talking about a bundle of sticks used for kindling, or a meat dish from the north of england.

And I think asking “who’s going to care about it” at the end of a 600 comment thread is a little bit thick.

28/10/2011 at 02:16 dangerfroggy says:

I can’t speak for every faggot, but in my case, the only thing that’s important is context.

Example: What Wulf was talking about. A man passes me in a pickup truck, identifies me as a homosexual (perhaps I’m carrying a neon sign denoting my sexuality) and screams “faggot!” He’s using the word faggot the same way I use the word nazi or bigot. All of us have “triggers” that make us appraise other people based on seconds of exposure and dismiss them as worthless human beings. For the guy in the truck, me having sex with men is just as depraved as him being an ignorant asshole is to me. If I get called a faggot in this context, I’m going to feel like crap for at least an hour, but not because of the word.

Example 2: A gay man, or a close friend, or both, calls me a faggot, cocksucker, etc. It’s not hurtful, not even a little, in fact, I usually find it hilarious. The idea that a person who knows me well has degenerated into the aforementioned man in the pickup truck is the hyperbole that every joke needs to be funny. If I call a straight friend a faggot, it’s blatant hypocrisy, to the magnitude that it cannot possibly be construed as serious, and we both laugh.

Bottom line, the word faggot can be just as endearing as it can be vitriolic filth.

In this case I think it is neither. I don’t feel insulted at all, but I sure as hell don’t feel welcomed by the WoW community. It’s not a rally to “kill or gays,” or some rubbish, it’s just the implication that they view homosexuality as a weakness. Which, really, is their loss, not mine.

28/10/2011 at 11:03 MadMatty says:

Yeah exactly, John Walker is taking this entirely out of context- calling people gay, in the US amongst friends, and even here in Europe, usually provoke nothing more than mild giggles.

28/10/2011 at 03:22 oceanclub says:

“When I was a kid I was called “Big Head” because my hair tends to grow outward instead of down”

Please name me one country where having a big head is illegal.
Please name me one country where children had to hide their big heads from their parents for fear of being disowned or even being killed.
Please name me one religion which considers those with big heads evil and has advocated throwing them from high places.
Please name me one place where people with big heads are forbidden to marry or adopt children.

Is my point getting thru to you?

P.

28/10/2011 at 03:36 alundra says:

Obviously, you’ve never been in the position of the immigrant in a foreign country, or being the “different” kid in school.

If you did then you’ve forgotten about it, if you think that “legalities” will purchase the lgbt community the way into social acceptance, it’s time to wake up.
28/10/2011 at 10:16 oceanclub says:

“Obviously, you’ve never been in the position of the immigrant in a foreign country, or being the “different” kid in school.”

As someone who was short, bespectacled, a “swot”, and an immigrant to Ireland with an English accent who arrived during the IRA Hunger Strikes of the early 80s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_strike), getting assaulted in the playground for being a “Brit”, you can consider that an epic fail.

P.

28/10/2011 at 03:25 Dances to Podcasts says:

All I learned from this is that Cannibal Corpse sucks. Which I sortof knew already.

28/10/2011 at 03:42 deadly.by.design says:

We all know that their horrible taste in music is the real offense here.

28/10/2011 at 04:13 Burky says:

Hate crime imo

28/10/2011 at 04:34 Maxmoaz says:

Blizzard has recently posted an official apology from the president himself: Mike Morhaime.

Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424798330?page=1#1

You can thank me later, RPS! :D

28/10/2011 at 04:38 Mitthrawn says:

I think Louis CK has the right idea here.
I’m just gonna put this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA

*runs away*

28/10/2011 at 04:38 Mitthrawn says:

I think Louis CK has the right idea here

I’m just gonna put this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA

*runs away*

28/10/2011 at 08:04 Man Raised by Puffins says:

Well, that’s at least the third time that has been posted, so it’s high time this was deployed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc
(the etymology put forward for faggot makes me raise a sceptical eyebrow, but the sentiment is there)

28/10/2011 at 04:40 Capt Fatbeard says:

The main problem I have with this is the sponsorship of this band by Blizzard I mean its incredibly stupid on their part, why on earth would they want to invite a band on stage when they know they have such views. Furthermore surely they are letting half of their customers insult the other half and endorsing it, not only is this morally objectionable but also makes incredibly bad business sense its almost like they don’t care about people playing their games.
Plus what would happen if say another multinational company like Coca Cola did the same thing and had a band on stage at one of their hosted events who called people ‘faggots’. There would a huge outcry from the worlds media about this, I don’t understand what the difference between the two is. They are both massive multinational companies that whether they like it or not have to adhere to corporate responsibility, they have a large cultural effect and if they act one way and are allowed to then it could mean that other people assume this is OK too. This is the crux of the issue if the games industry wants to be taken seriously it has to act seriously, this applies to the developers and publishers too, no other large business would of acted so stupidly.
Plus for the people who think that the word ‘faggot’ isn’t actually an offensive word and people don’t use it as a homophobic slur I would like to point your attention to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gPyyqISm8eg that I came across today. There is no way that using the word ‘faggot’ is acceptable in the modern age when so called ‘civilised’ societies still allow this kind of this to happen.

28/10/2011 at 17:08 aerozol says:

Edited out, because whatever, people are going to want to be righteous no matter what on this topic anyway.

28/10/2011 at 05:02 Raiyan 1.0 says:

Try harder Cannibal Corpse. These stock slurs don’t impress me. Get a little more creative, something in the vein of “You Fox news viewing Daily Mail subscribing Teabagger.” Get on with the time, yo.

28/10/2011 at 05:39 Dapper Dan says:

Mike Morhaime’s released a proper apology, must have realised that the first attempt by L90ETC wasn’t really even an apology at all.
‘Apology from Mike Morhaime.

Dear members of the Blizzard community,

I have read your feedback and comments about this year’s BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I’d like to respond to some of your feedback here.

As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.

It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.

The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We’re proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.

As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.

– Mike Morhaime
President, Blizzard Entertainment

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424798330

28/10/2011 at 06:15 TillEulenspiegel says:

Looks like the adults finally woke up. I don’t believe for a second that he actually gives a shit (“we realize now”? what the hell is that?), but at least he’s smart enough to understand that this was a PR disaster and to say most of the right words.
28/10/2011 at 07:18 WhatKateDoes says:

Lol, for some reason I’m reminded of Chris Evans on TFI Friday after the Sean Ryder appearance.

“We’re sorry, I’m sorry. Sorry, sorry… sorry… ah…. sorry. We’re sorry.”

XD

28/10/2011 at 05:50 DethFiesta says:

His name isn’t George Fisher — that’s CORPSEGRINDER!!!!

28/10/2011 at 19:34 bwion says:

I certainly do not mean to offend Mr. Corpsegrinder by calling him George Fisher, I’m sure he understands that common usage of the phrase ‘George Fisher’ has evolved such that ‘George Fisher’ is just a generalized insult at this point, and is not meant to refer specifically to Mr. Corpsegrinder in particular.

28/10/2011 at 07:01 Snargelfargen says:

@lurkalisk

Your troll… it’s… it’s perfect.

The slightly crazy opinion, the tortured logic, and the polite yet personal attack, everything!

28/10/2011 at 08:07 duncanthrax says:

Now that Blizzard’s headmaster has cut short a perfectly good shitstorm by way of a businesslike apology, here’s some more Fun-Metal material to be offended about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfB7vF7nCdA&ob=av2e

Rage on!

28/10/2011 at 10:03 Muzman says:

I vote stupid metal collection right here!

http://youtu.be/cLHXYLHMhKI
28/10/2011 at 10:25 Cinnamon says:

It’s sweet that metal fans think that people are still offended by music like that when we are just bored. But I’m not sure where this apology is. Did a quick google for blizzard and nothing about it on their homepage or press releases, strange.

28/10/2011 at 09:42 BAshment says:

I agree that its a bad idea for blizzard to support such hateful language. but people retorting to comments with racist generalizations are just as bad.

28/10/2011 at 10:24 adonf says:

Well that didn’t go too bad, did it? I came here after reading Alec’s twitter post and I was expecting lots of name-calling and gay bashing but no, mostly people with different opinion expressing them in an eloquent way. Thanks RPS for keeping the bar high, in the articles and the comments even when there’s strong disagreement.

(And it seems safe to add that I’m not being ironic. I realize that a lot of people have been upset by this comment thread but I do mean what I just said…)

(Also for all that matter, my personal opinion on the subject is that the main problem was not whether an offensive man from an offensive band said offensive things or not, but rather that Blizzard supported the idea that gaming is immature.)

28/10/2011 at 10:34 MadMatty says:

Wot a bunch of softies you are! I listen to both Cannibal Corpse, and “Anal Cu*t” and theyre quite funny, especially “Anal C*nt”s “I like it when you die”- a classic.
Whatever you big pile of prudes hahaha
380 comments wow- you really should get out more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlg46CS14dY Anal C*nt with a ren n stimpy video- look out for vids with lyrics, as they can be kindof hard to decipher ;)

Oh yeah….. : Hitler Was a Sensitive Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=j44jb8hPWu8

28/10/2011 at 11:05 merc-ai says:

welcome to Blockland, MadMatty.
Seriously, please stop tainting this website with your immature stupidity.

28/10/2011 at 10:36 oceanclub says:

It’s good to see Blizzard had the sense to apologise. Hopefully their people will now have the common sense not to hire people who will shout bigotry at their paying audience. I can now resume my prior state of not giving a toss about Cannibal Corpse.

28/10/2011 at 11:01 toastmodernist says:

This place really sickens me sometimes.

Thought you’d want to know that.

28/10/2011 at 11:24 SurprisedMan says:

I can hardly believe what I’m reading in some of these comments. Let’s get a few things clear: I’m gay and I don’t really find the video offensive. I’m fairly hard to offend and I’m not about to be by some idiot saying stupid things. But:

1) I wasn’t always that way. Once I was a kid coming to terms with my sexuality, wondering who would think differently of me if they knew or whether I could just not tell anyone and that would be fine. Having to listen to people I know say things like ‘I think gay people should be dragged out into the street and shot’ without knowing who they were talking to. And I, in comparison to most, had it pretty easily. I’ve never had abuse hurled directly at me, never had to deal with direct discrimination. I was lucky in that way, but not everyone is. And if I had the capacity to be hurt by this sort of language in my teenage years, there are plenty of people in much worse situations. How DARE any of you suggest they should just grow up and take it? They should not have to.

2) It doesn’t even have to be about offense. The guy’s clearly an idiot, and by indirectly supporting his brand of idiocy, Blizzard help to perpetuate it.

28/10/2011 at 14:08 Vermintide says:

Wait. People are actually outraged when the frontman of a fucking death metal band acted in an offensive manner?

Here’s a hint: This guy’s band are responsible for such crowd-pleasing hits as “I Cum Blood”, “Meat Hook Sodomy”, and “Entrails Ripped From A Virgin’s Cunt”. If you’re actually taking this all that seriously, you need a bit of perspective. Let’s be honest too, everything he said is 100% representative of the kinds of thing you’re likely to hear in game. Blizzard couldnt’ve picked a better spokesperson.

Typical American antics either way. You don’t get this when Bolt Thrower play a Warhammer convention ;)

28/10/2011 at 15:51 Mutak says:

You’re missing the point. People don’t care what random B-List metalhead thinks about the Alliance or LGBT people. They care when Blizzard chooses to showcase random B-List metalhead’s bigotry as part of the capstone to their company convention.

It’s one thing to deal with random fuckwads in the game. It’s another thing to see the company endorsing that shit.

28/10/2011 at 14:17 John Walker says:

A few people have asked why more comments haven’t been deleted from this thread. Let me explain:

1) I do not believe that someone expressing opinions that I personally find offensive, or even foul, should automatically be silenced. So there’s that.

2) I believe that allowing people to see the extent of homophobia that still exists, whether in the gaming community or just in general, is extremely important. Silencing it is pretending it isn’t there.

3) If there are any comments that are abuse directed at another individual, or breaking our commenting rules, then please email me at john@rockpapershotgun.com, linking directly to that comment. I will delete it, and ban the person who posted it. This is a 600 posts long thread, and it’s my day off. There’s only so much I can spot on my own.

Abuse will absolutely not be tolerated, unless it’s from me.

28/10/2011 at 15:58 Mutak says:

Blizzard issued another apology. This one much better than the first:

Dear members of the Blizzard community,

I have read your feedback and comments about this year’s BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I’d like to respond to some of your feedback here.

As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.

It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.

The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We’re proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.

As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.

– Mike Morhaime
President, Blizzard Entertainment

It’s a decent response, but words are just words. I’ll wait and see if the company has actually changed its tune before i forgive and forget completely.

28/10/2011 at 16:26 Very Real Talker says:

Even if certain words are offensive- who cares? As long as you can ignore them- and if they belong to a internet page, video, or videogame or a private conversation YOU CAN- I don’t see the problem.

If Homophobes were cruising around gay bar throwing gay slurs at the gay patrons, stalking them and calling them at home to insult their sexual tastes, then yeah I would see the problem.

But as long as I’m using offensive (read: extremely funny) words in videogames, or in private conversation- who the fuck cares? Why should I limit my freedom of expression? Just fuck off!

I can’t wait to play Batman Arkham City as soon as it comes out for the pc- if you are offended by sexism then don’t play it! I hate the idea that everything has to be friendly and inclusive to everyone- what the fuck people, do you want to turn everything in the shape of the world depicted in demolition man?

PS for example I am offended by the depiction of homosexuality in bioware games, someone may remember. Conclusion? I just don’t play them anymore and that’s it!

VIVA LA FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION!

28/10/2011 at 16:59 adonf says:

Please point me to a comment that is actually homophobic in this thread. All I see is people saying either
a- The word ‘faggot’ has a different meaning so it’s not a big deal
b- Yes it is offensive but come on guys toughen up
c- Gay people should reclaim this word
And of course d- It is a big deal

But I read the whole thread and didn’t see anyone condoning the use of homophobic insults or even less using them. I must have missed something, please enlighten me.

28/10/2011 at 21:16 dangerfroggy says:

I submit that anyone who claims the meaning of the word has changed is in denial. No one who uses the word is unaware that it is used to identify gay men. That is it’s primary definition in today’s culture, not “lame,” not “weak,” but gay.

Faggot = gay

Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is just inventing excuses to soothe their conscience. That doesn’t mean the word is evil and should be stricken from the English language, but let’s be honest with ourselves, the definition has not, and will not change, due to the long history of discrimination and violence associated with homophobia.
28/10/2011 at 21:41 Yosharian says:

@dangerfroggy Essentially you are right, but it’s important to consider the purpose of words when they are used. This doesn’t excuse certain things, but it should change the way we perceive the words and how we deal with their use.

Example 1: a white person says ‘What’s up nigga?!’ jokingly to another white person.

Example 2: a white person says ‘I hate those fucking niggers!’ through clenched teeth to another white person.

Same usage? Deal with it in the same way? Yet, it’s the same word being used…

Hopefully you see my point.
28/10/2011 at 22:07 dangerfroggy says:

I agree completely Yosharian. I think the difference in this case is that the first example: the use of the word “nigger” between two white men is a parody of the appropriate use of the word between two black men. The word faggot, as this guy uses it, is just a negative adjective, which most are arguing is not an appropriate use. However, it is not the same as someone who uses the word to identify gays as worthless human beings. If someone said to me, “Elves are faggots,” I would be considerably less offended than if someone said, “Kill yourself, you faggot.” Even though neither of these is appropriate, the latter is hate speech, while I would argue the former is simply inconsiderate.

28/10/2011 at 17:15 Beva says:

And I am, for example, offended when there isn’t any depiction of homosexsuality in games, and since you seem to be in an advice giving mood and I have already finished those four games that have any homosexuality in them, maybe you can point me towards some other games that you usually avoid.

Because it seems unfair that I have four games and you have eleven million games.

(And I don’t even like Bioware games)

28/10/2011 at 22:26 dangerfroggy says:

If my male Shepard can’t sleep with Garrus in the first 30 minutes of ME3, I’m suing Bioware, no joke.

28/10/2011 at 17:27 Pointless Puppies says:

What’s most amusing about these commends is people telling other people how to feel. “No, you’re simply not allowed to be offended at these offensive words. See, they didn’t actually try to OFFEND people using these offensive words, they just said them ‘cuz they sounded funny! So if you’re offended by offensive words, don’t be”

Logic and sensibility at its finest.

28/10/2011 at 20:35 Very Real Talker says:

I addressed these points in my well-thought reply; basically who cares if someone gets offended? Can you imagine how boring the world would be if everyone was free to decide what offends him and demand others to stop offending them based on their feelings?

In my excellent reply I gave a solution to the problem; just ignore it and stop demanding strangers to be careful about your precious feelings. Somebody stalks you and call you a homo? That’s a problem. Someone creates something easily ignored- like a youtube video, a videogame, an internet post full of offensive content, a conversation among strangers? You just ignore it.

It’s really simple and it would be REALLY horrible if we were all forced to stop offending people based on their self reported feelings.
28/10/2011 at 21:36 Yosharian says:

@Veryrealtalker For the majority of people commenting on this story, that’s an accurate assessment; however, you fail to consider the people who were actually present at the event. They couldn’t just ‘ignore’ what was being placed in front of them. Maybe it’s a little unlikely that Cannibal Corpse has a big LGBT following… but anyway, I reckon there’s a good chance some people were physically present who could have been offended.

And really, is ‘offended’ a strong enough word? When someone shouts into a mic that a group of people you belong to or identify with should be _killed_, isn’t that a little more than offensive? This is essentially hate speech, which is illegal in many western countries. (But apparently not the US, which is interesting!)
28/10/2011 at 21:40 dangerfroggy says:

I’m a pretty chill guy, and I don’t usually get up in arms about stuff like this, but come on. It’s easy to say, “sticks and stones, bro.” But I think we all know that’s an empty argument. When somebody, even a stranger judges you, it evokes an emotional response, be it pride, shame, or doubt. If somebody spits the word “faggot,” into your face, you can laugh it off, walk away. But it’ll stay with you for a little bit. You don’t have to be a slave to the whims of other people, but it’s impossible to hit an “off” switch and be unaffected by the derision of other human beings. We’re social creatures, and we care what others think of us, no matter how undeserving of our attention their opinions are. So say whatever you like, but don’t tell yourself “If they don’t like it, they should just ignore it.” Your words have an impact, like it or not.

Note: Obviously the guy in the video isn’t spitting derision on gays, I’m just offering thoughts on the “ignore it,” line of thinking. “Corpsegrinder” or whatever isn’t Fred Phelps, but he is a dumbass who is representing gamer culture. I wish he were misrepresenting it, but I know he’s not.

Another note, because I’m new at this and don’t know how to properly reply: As far as I can tell, the guy’s inarticulate rant was against a faction in WoW. He was speaking in the manner that he probably speaks to his friends, albeit with a camera in his face. Despite his choice of vocabulary, he’s not saying “Kill the gays,” he’s saying, “kill those gay elves.” So while I may be offended, I wouldn’t consider it a hate speech unless there were gay elves who stood to suffer.
28/10/2011 at 21:42 Yosharian says:

Oh, I believe he is spitting derision at gay people.
28/10/2011 at 21:56 Very Real Talker says:

yes it is true that words affect people, but it still not enough to demand censorship of language… I think that people should still have their own favorite media filled with all the offensive content they care to cram in.
28/10/2011 at 22:22 dangerfroggy says:

No one is saying the man should be censored, they are questioning the wisdom of Blizzard displaying his rant as part of the convention coverage. WoW has 9000 quadrillion users, some of whom are undoubtedly gay, many of whom would find the use of the word “faggot” uncomfortable, especially in the same sentence as “kill yourself.” The issue isn’t what he said, the issue is that Blizzard apparently found it presentable.

28/10/2011 at 18:12 arccos says:

An old man recovering from severe burns walks into a bar. A young guy comes up and gives him a few big slaps on the back and says “Hey buddy! Let me buy you a drink!” while the old man howls in pain. The bartender yells out “Stop that! Can’t you see that hurts?!”

The young guy gives the old man the biggest slap yet and says “That doesn’t hurt! I slap my friends on the back all the time and they don’t complain!”

28/10/2011 at 21:23 Very Real Talker says:

“my feelings.. offended… how could I ever go on with my life…”
a young gay man after hearing the word “faggot” in a videogame
28/10/2011 at 21:48 dangerfroggy says:

Obviously if any of us were stricken with sorrow every time somebody on the internet reminds us we’re gay, we would have left long ago. That doesn’t mean we don’t mind wading through a metric fuck-ton of insults and slurs. We can ask you to stop, you can choose not to. But don’t think it won’t or shouldn’t affect our opinion of you.

28/10/2011 at 20:21 Bob says:

Good lord! I’m not going to read 597 comments to see if this has been said, sorry. It’s not the words as such but the *intent* with which they’re used that is offensive.

31/10/2011 at 01:43 Dozer says:

Unfortunately no-one’s going to read through 548 comments and see yours either…

29/10/2011 at 02:25 Wulf says:

Well, hasn’t this been a lovely display of sociopathy?

There are many ways on display here in which people can be broken. Whilst broken myself, I’m glad that I’m not broken to the point where I have no feelings and no ability to feel empathy for others. Because that’s clearly what we’re seeing here. Utter, unashamed sociopathy at its finest.

What I need to figure out now is why gaming draws out the sociopaths. See, it’s times like this that I figure that maybe, just maybe, some of the news outlets were right. And if I’m thinking something like that, then these are dark, dark times indeed.

Seriously though, I’ve never known such emotionally dead husks, so completely uncaring. It amazes me.

And that’s what this has been, a cavalcade, a gallery, a festival of what we’re supposed to be proud of. Really? I don’t see much to be proud of. Blizzard decided to make hate speech live on the Internet, and apparently anyone who thinks that this was an incredibly stupid and offensive move just needs to get over themselves, apparently.

Yep. Sociopathy… At. It’s. Finest.

I hope most of you are pleased with yourselves, you drag the rest of humanity down with you. And I can only imagine the sneering snark you’re ready to bear at my sentiments. So this is the last time I’m looking in here. I’ll just leave it at that.

29/10/2011 at 09:09 rokenroleg says:

You’re absolutely right there, Wulf. The internet is full of sociopaths, who have no right to use the tools given to them to spout hate.

But, here we are! So I have a new plan. Whenever someone around me says ‘That’s gay’ or ‘Oh, you faggot, you ganked me!’ I shall reply “YEAH, WHAT A STUPID NIGGER.” Let’s see how far that goes. Oh, wait, ‘Gay’ as a slur isn’t as bad as ‘Nigger’ as a slur? Hmm. Reevaluate yourself.
29/10/2011 at 09:11 Very Real Talker says:

to be honest it also attracts lots of overly sensitive people, who are gay friendly, coloured people friendly, and feminists.

Me personally I love very mild insensitive stuff… for example I would be disgusted by a game that glorifies violence against women, but a game with no female character that is capable of combat, or where females are only eye candy? I would love something like that.

A game where you go around killing blacks or gays would be disgusting, but a game where the characters keep saying “gay” and “faggot” as an insult, or where gays and blacks are depicted as highly stereotypical caricatures? With the black guy having only the function of being the first one to die?

I mean games made exclusively for white heterosexual males, it would be great

This is the kind of stuff that I would love in games but overly sensitive people like yourself are a great part of the audience to be honest, and it scares me a bit when you bitch a lot for stuff like the thugs in batman saying bitch a lot
29/10/2011 at 16:43 Frantics says:

Youre a gay?

In AFRICA we do not have faggots. It is unatural, umbosa, forbidden.

You get offended too easy. Learn to smile. :-)
29/10/2011 at 16:56 Unaco says:

@Frantics

If you think there are no homosexuals in Africa, you are f*cking delusional.
29/10/2011 at 19:23 unitled says:

@very real talker

“I mean games made exclusively for white heterosexual males, it would be great”

Wow, we don’t have nearly enough of those. I mean, it’s obvious that straight white males are the REAL oppressed group in our society.

Or…

Wait…

No. I don’t think there’s a single game which has a gay lead character (as opposed to a game where the lead can choose to follow a gay relationship if the player wishes). And yet, gay players are routinely presented with games where their character is straight and in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Just about every single game, especially the big budget games, are aimed squarely at straight male players, gaming is more than overdue some diversity.

The very best message a gay person could take away from the idiot in corpsegrinder is that WoW is not a welcome place for gay players, even if they don’t come away offended.
29/10/2011 at 19:57 evilhippo says:

“I don’t think there’s a single game which has a gay lead character (as opposed to a game where the lead can choose to follow a gay relationship if the player wishes)”

That would be because they actually want to *sell* their games and a really really large proportion of the games buying public will simply not play a gay male character under any circumstances… so you will never see gay male as anything other than a subtle option (for example choosing the ‘Confirmed Bachelor’ perk in Fallout New Vegas and thereby getting the rather amusing gay dialogue from certain NPCs), at least in any high investment big ticket game

Oh don’t get me wrong, I am not in favour of ‘lowest common denominator’ games and I think games need to be targeted at specific niche markets (something that Bioware gets worse at with every game they make by turning their former RPG franchises into more ‘accessible action games’). But realistically gay male players is not a very big market niche if the gay maleness makes a game *just* for gay male players.
29/10/2011 at 23:55 unitled says:

…which is exactly my point. Comments have been made they’re sick and tired of people being overly sensitive and they want games catering to straight white males… which pretty much all games already ARE.

And why do you have to be gay to play as a gay character? We’re already forcing people who prefer same-sex relationships to play heterosexual relationships. Maybe the homophobic language exhibited above is one of the reasons people don’t feel they’d be comfortable playing a gay character.

Besides, we’re starting to get games with non-white characters, while the majority of people in the UK are white. Why should sexuality be different?
30/10/2011 at 01:58 evilhippo says:

“Besides, we’re starting to get games with non-white characters, while the majority of people in the UK are white. Why should sexuality be different?”

Because sexuality *is* different. Not many white male British players would worry that playing a bIack toon might make people think they were harbouring secret desires to be black, whereas playing a gay one…

That’s just the way things are and I cannot see that changing any time soon… or ever for that matter. That there are gay characters in game stories (like in Fallout NV) at all indicates significant changes in the creative environment but realistically I doubt there will ever be much motivation for devs making high production cost games to produce gay-centric ones.

29/10/2011 at 02:25 Wulf says:

(And a quick poke just to get that comment up there.)

29/10/2011 at 12:09 Ham Solo says:

I think if you worry about people associated with media offending other people, it’s the beginning of the politically correct end. See caricatures.

29/10/2011 at 15:23 Natus says:

Thank you RPS for the story and sentiments, but you seem to have inadvertantly revealed how a good number of RPS-ers actually think, and in this day and age what they think is genuinely frightening. Shame on Blizzard, and shame on those here justifying the offensive language. I find it appalling that so many members of this community are spending their waning intellectual energy in such a manner.

31/10/2011 at 00:20 AngelAtTheTomb says:

First, anyone who seriously claims to think that “faggot” has lost its homosexual connotation and just means “a bad thing” is lying. Everyone knows what it means, and that is the point. It is used to denote bad things BY comparing them to homosexuals, which are implied to be bad. So stop justifying it by lying.

Second, the point is not whether or not the band was being offensive; they clearly were, they’re clearly idiots, everyone knows this.

The point is that BLIZZARD INVITED THEM ONSTAGE. No one is surprised that Cannibal Kill is being offensive. They are idiots and they make terrible music. People are surprised that Blizzard made the baffling move of allowing them onstage to promote their game, either being negligently ignorant of who they were inviting onstage, or, slightly worse, thinking it was a good idea to promote their game that way. Either way, it was a puzzlingly foolish move that would alienate a lot more people than it would invite into a “community”-based game.

Also, to whoever was saying “cretin” is a great insult because it won’t make anyone mad AND it’s fun to say: you sir are rad.

31/10/2011 at 05:50 Wraggles says:

/Sigh, I think this is buried, but what the heck, my 5 cents.

I think, in many ways, there are two different types of social interactions people here are mixing up.
Say for instance, in your social circle, you use an offensive word. You use this offensive word, because a) it’s a throwaway word for your social circle and has little to no power within it. b) You KNOW no one in said group is going to be offended by it, c) even if they would be if some other person was to say it to them. This is in many ways ok (in several ways not, but at least no one is harmed) and I don’t doubt we ALL do it.

But it’s only ok as long as you know! Know where the word comes from, know who might be offended by it, know not to use that word outside of your small social group because someone else out there might in fact still be offended by the word. Know that to people unfamiliar with your manner, your meaning and context is often unclear, they haven’t spent so much time around you that they can tell every nuance and inflection to your speech.

In the real world we call this tact. Perhaps this man didn’t mean to be offensive. Perhaps some people aren’t offended by him. But this doesn’t mean that what he said isn’t a gendered/sex oriented insult. It doesn’t mean that what he said is inoffensive. It does mean that he’s tactless. It does mean that it’s appalling that blizzard allowed it to occur.

01/11/2011 at 17:06 James says:

Hilarious. The attacking tone of this article is the only thing that is “pathetic”.

Amazing that Cannibal Corpse still have the power to offend those with delicate sensibilities 20 years later. The footage shown is taken from a documentary released in 2008, aimed at fans of the band. 30 seconds of tongue in cheek, off the cuff and passionate discussion of a game he’s clearly heavily invested in.

This is both worthy of news on RPS and of our scorned derision of the man, his band and his fans?

From this is it is to be concluded that the band and Blizzard are homophobic?

Why have him on? He fronts one of the most accomplished, successful and best-selling bands in the genre his band practically defined, far from “pathetic” and popular amongst many gamers, likely including Sam and many in that very audience.

I can accept that you’re offended by this but an article featuring hyperbole like “really grim stuff” that also features sarcastic attacks on character, based on nothing more than a band name and 30 seconds of innocuous dialogue falls well below the usual RPS standard of editorial quality.

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