BlizzCon’s Peculiar Homophobic Moment

By John Walker on October 27th, 2011 at 1:54 pm.

Congratulating themselves on their hilarious jape.

It’s an uphill struggle to convince those outside the games industry that it is, in some ways, a mature medium for mature, thoughtful people. Clearly the most difficult element of that hill is the incredible immaturity and thoughtless nature of so much of the games industry. You need not look far in any direction to see examples of sexism (the PC has yet to be blessed with Arkham City’s delightful attitude toward female characters), misogyny, racism, and of course homophobia. Something, for reasons inexplicable, Blizzard chose to feature on the main stage of their World Of Warcraft-based celebrations at this year’s BlizzCon. Via whoever’s extraordinary decision, edited clips from a homophobic diatribe were broadcast to the crowds (albeit loosely bleeped out) which encouraged those who play Alliance characters to kill themselves. Followed by a song.

This rather misguided choice, as reported by GayGamer, was certainly less immediately offensive in the bleeped version shown at the event, but the views of the lead singer of “Cannibal Corpse” weren’t exactly hard to guess. Introduced on stage by Blizzard’s art director, Sam Didier, the singer, George Fisher, then joined Didier’s band. The unedited version of the clip played, which you can watch here (please be warned, it really is a non-stop stream of swearing and homophobic crap), shows some really grim stuff.

Which leaves the question: why?

Why show the clip? Why invite a band on stage with such an attitude? Why allow a video clip to show – even with phrases like, “Go fucking cry in a river and tell me about how you’re going to slit your wrists, you Night Elf faggot” removed – with bleeped sentences such as:

“F— the Alliance. F—ing die, you f—ing emo c———-.”

A man wishing players of the game dead. Who is then welcomed on stage to roar his song about how he likes the Horde best in the computer game he likes playing. While he wears a t-shirt of his own band.

He is correct when he describes himself as “pathetic”. But why did Blizzard think this was a good idea?

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626 Comments »

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  1. DrGonzo says:

    I think South Park made a very good case about faggot, and how it isn’t actually homophobic ( or shouldn’t be ). It is in such common usage it’s easier to change what the word means than to stop people using it.

    As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.

    Also, it’s a joke. Of course he doesn’t want people dead. Did you really think he actually meant that?

    • actionthom says:

      Unfortunately that’s not your, or South Park’s decision to make. If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.

    • The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

      So you’re suggesting that blizzard is pioneering this change?

    • HexagonalBolts says:

      In that case then I should spend all day shouting racial slurs at you for being whatever skin colour you are, and you can pretend i’m just talking about bananas.

    • Brumisator says:

      Well you can say what you want about the word “fag”, but “cocksucker” is really quite literal in its homophobic meaning.

      But all I really see in this video is gratuitous swearing used for supposed comedic effect. I don’t see the direct homophobia.

      Basically, I agree with what what PJmendez said below.

    • Cerzi says:

      relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

      another take on the word

      Having said that, the guy is just a douche – getting up in arms over this being homophobic is a bit sensationalist. He’s just a turd, don’t give him more airtime.

    • mjig says:

      “If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t”

      Yeah, it shouldn’t be about whether or not something is offensive to someone, but whether or not we should care.

    • misterk says:

      I really, really need to address this, but this is such bullshit. While a word is still used as a negative descriptor, or even a descriptor for that group, using it to mean something negative is necessarily confusing the meaning. If I use the word “Jewish” and claim that its ok, because its been used so much it just means bad, thats not fine, right? The word needs to be sufficiently disassociated from its roots to get away with that. And for that to happen, of course, it would mean the subculture would have lost that word.

      There are lots and lots of words to use to describe something negatively, so why not use something that is also an insult used to intimidate and insult homosexual people all over the world? What infuriates me about these attitudes is that they are typically taken by middle class men in comfortable lives where they simply don’t have to confront such prejudice, as if homosexual people don’t have to closet themselves in many places of the world (including parts of the US and UK) to prevent their lives being at risk.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Of course you can argue back at them! Fuck offense. Being offensive is one of our great freedoms. Cannibal Corpse write songs about fucking people with knives ( and that is relatively mild for them ). I really don’t think this is particularly extreme of them.

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      Nathan says:

      There’s a line somewhere that distinguishes whether or not it is my responsibility not to offend, or someone else’s sensibilities making them “too” easily offended.

      Where that line is, I’m not really sure.

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      Hanban says:

      Certainly people can at times be too sensitive about things. But implying that the meaning of the word ‘faggot’ has change so much that people should stop finding it offensive, makes you look like a real poor excuse for a human being.

      For the people who get beaten up to the chorus of ‘faggot’ I’m sure the word has very traumatic and directly negative connotations, and you can’t tell them otherwise. Doing so makes you look like a tool, and a person lacking the social ability to step inside someone else’s shoes and imagine what it’s like being them.

    • kikito says:

      “If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.”

      I find that completely offensive.

    • DrGonzo says:

      That wasn’t what I was saying. I was saying that the word SHOULD change and that most of the kids who use it when asked would respond that they meant it in that way.

      But no. We aren’t allowed to discuss this. It is forbidden!

      One other point, how is cocksucker homophobic at all? I mean most women are cocksuckers, and gay men also suck cocks. Plus it’s a wonderful and loving act. Am I missing something here?

    • JackShandy says:

      You must understand how terrible it is to use words describing a certain type of person as synonymous with “Bad thing”. You must.

      “Oh, that word doesn’t mean (female/jewish/african) anymore, it’s just a synonym for “Horrible person”!”

      I’ve grown used to “Gay” being used as “Lame”, but I’m honestly shocked to hear that “Faggot” is apparently a totally normal way to call out someone you dislike.

      EDIT: DRG when you use the word for a wonderful and loving act as synonymous with “Terrible terrible thing” you are demeaning and vilifying that act. If you do not understand this then I think all the rules I use as a basis for conversing for people are crumbling.

    • The Hammer says:

      1) Cocksucker is used in almost all cases as an insult.

      2) If you use the term ‘cocksucker’ against a straight person, then you are implying that they commit gay acts.

      3) “But wait!” you say, “being gay isn’t a bad thing, in our world!” But ‘cocksucker’ is still used as an insult, as we saw in point one.

      Therefore, you are associating being gay as a bad thing. And ‘cocksucker’ is still used as a homophobic slur, whether or not people use it independently from the issue.

      @JackShandy: me too. It must be an American thing, in the same way that ‘spaz’ is. That’s the only conclusion I can think up.

    • actionthom says:

      @kikito then I apologise

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      bglamb says:

      Arguing that the word ‘fag’ is taken out of context is missing the point that a lot of people so still use that word as anti-gay slang.

      It’s like saying that calling someone a whore isn’t actually sexist, because I’m not calling her an actual prostitute. Or ‘retard’ is fine because I’m not implying that they’re actually suffering from a medical condition.

      These words all carry connotations which are directly related to the original meaning of the word. The fact that the word ‘fag’ has become commonplace on certain parts of the internet (like a certain racial slur), is taken by a lot of people to validate the original prejudice.

      As long as people are still calling gay people ‘fags’ in a derogatory way, then it is not ok to keep using it in civilised society.

    • Myros says:

      When it comes to offensive words its all about assoctiation and implied meaning. Just because some people have decided ‘gay’ or ‘faggot’ can also be used as a generic insult against anyone (not just homosexuals) doesnt change the fact that it is an offensive term associated with homosexuals. And it makes it no less offensive to them.

      eg Say a few people decided to start using ‘american’ as a generic insult to describe assholes. When confronted by an offended american they could just say “oh but I wasnt talking about people from america, its just a generic insult meaning asshole” …. plain to see that the implied meaning is american=asshole therefor insulting/offensive to americans wether you meant it that way or not.

    • Woden says:

      The thing that surprises me the most about this story is the reaction by RPS commenters. Coming here day after day and reading comments, I took the RPS community for intelligent, thoughtful folk (because as we all know, puns and sarcasm are the highest form of comedy, I mean, obviously).

      The particular flavor of kneejerk hatefulness on display in these comments was something I thought was the province of boys too young and stupid to know better, and people who share that mental level, such as YouTube commenters and right-wing politicians. To see it here is disappointing, but not shocking.

      By contrast, the attempts to justify that kneejerk hatefulness are the sole province of adults who are mature enough to consider their views and, upon doing so, have arrived at the conclusion that it’s perfectly OK to continue on with being a towering asshole. “If I’m not offended, then it isn’t offensive” is an airtight philosophy as long as you make it a point to only associate with people exactly like yourself. Seeing comments justifying and explaining here? That is both shocking and disappointing.

    • Stevostin says:

      “Unfortunately that’s not your, or South Park’s decision to make. If a group finds a word offensive then you really can’t argue back at them that it isn’t.”

      Nope, that’s an exageration. If a group of french speaking people say they find it offensive that the BBC journal is in english, it can and will be argued back. Of course you’ll rush in and say “it’s absolutely not the same”, but that’s my point : it’s a slider, not a 0/1 limit. We all agree that if GTAIV had a mission where you get a bonus by hitting a gay character with a baseball bat, that would be a big issue. But we also agree that maybe we don’t want to play a Mass Effect with same sex character publicly enjoying themselves in the background during conversation (well, I mean “play more than once” :P). So it’s open to debate : where do we put the slider ?

    • Verio says:

      This “fag is ok now, didn’t you hear?” attitude I am seeing here is the first I have ever seen of this. This coming from an American. I certainly wouldn’t agree with that at all.

      In fact for what it’s worth, the community of which I am a part allows a lot of juvenile shit, and a lot of swearing. One thing that is NOT tolerated at all, either on our forums, or in-game voice coms (TF2 mostly) is calling people “fag”. The community made a decision 6-7 years ago that we weren’t 16 year olds anymore, and were capable of higher standards.

      TBH it’s almost like one ignorant kid has derailed this entire response.

    • JackShandy says:

      I feel the same, Woden – every time something like this happens I feel a bit disillusioned with the RPS community.

      Then I go look at the comments under something like PC gamer and realize that this is the best place we’ve got.

      Horribleness is inevitable when any joe horrible can wander in off the street and start spewing hate – all you can do is recognizable that those people aren’t representative of the RPS community as a whole.

    • Kaldor says:

      It has homophobic origin, but it’s quite “correct” to point out that it doesn’t necessarily have this meaning and intention. It’s a juvenile word, but it doesn’t necessarily imply a worldview where gay people have certain characteristics. That’s where it comes from, but it’s reapplied to general “bullying” (in the same way as emo) without necessarily referring to the recipient’s sexual orientation. So it would be more accurate to call this event “offensive”, but “homophobic” would be a selective emphasis based on personal priority. I know you can only do wrong in “splitting hair” in anything offensive, but differences should still matter. I don’t think homosexual people are necessarily offended, it might depend on their activist tendencies and experiences, but they don’t need to feel adressed except by association, because they most likely aren’t adressed.

      Also how often have you seen something like “elves are gay”? It means “unmanly”, “unmasculine”, “feminine”, “nancy” (I have to think of Monty Python at this word)…

    • Pathetic Phallacy says:

      I’m sorry, but this whole ‘words change meaning’ argument is just too fucking hilarious. The word has not changed its meaning. Gay teens are getting the shit kicked out of them across the country while being called a fagot.

      We as a society can actually prevent a lot of these gay kids from taking their own lives. Yes, maybe some are just clinically depressed and unfortunately their depression goes unnoticed. But most of them are killing themselves because their environment despises them. Kids learn from us. If we use the word to joke around with our friends, you can damn well bet they will use the word to hurt someone. It baffles me how some people value their freedom to use a single word more than they value the lives of others.

      I’m really disappointed with the comments I’m reading on this site. I would expect some of these rants from Kotaku members, but RPS? What a shame.

    • Kaira- says:

      I support freedom of speech. It really does bring out the idiots like nothing else.

    • Kaldor says:

      “I’m sorry, but this whole ‘words change meaning’ argument is just too fucking hilarious. The word has not changed its meaning. Gay teens are getting the shit kicked out of them across the country while being called a fagot.”

      That’s not fucking hilarious. All kinds of words have all kinds of different meanings and nuances of meanings. That’s basic linguistics. (Not the stuff about gays, the stuff about meaning.) That is a simple reality that can be pointed out.

      Everyone agrees that it’s offensive and that gay teens are getting a lot of shit, but this is not a political event, it’s just a weirdo singer ranting, it’s a very old video. They thought he was a minor celebrity and so they invivted him. It’s not supposed as advertisement of those views, save for his strange personality and fandom.

      Also there are constantly offensive words in all kinds of semi-humorous, offensive contexts on the internet. This is just a good opportunity in talking about it, perhaps (still better in class rooms, with parents etc.), but it’s not even unusual, and as can be correctly pointed out it doesn’t necessarily carry the same meaning in all instances (like words in general!).

      You can talk about this all day long and not notice that there’s not a disagreement about the substance, only that how you interpret this might not be its intention.

    • ScubaMonster says:

      I have to say, you guys are being a bunch of pansies. I’m tired of all this politically correct crap. Oh no, someone might be offended. If we use that as the measuring stick for everything we say, then you might as well not say anything at all because someone, somewhere, will find it offensive.

      And if you expect me to believe you never used something as an insult that could be negative or offensive towards someone or a group of people, you are lying and pretentious. You can whitewash yourself on an internet forum, that doesn’t make you innocent.

      Fire away! And be sure not to use something that might offend me, lest you become a hypocrite.

    • Azradesh says:

      You are aware that the word’s meaning has already changed many, many time. I have no idea how it came to mean homosexual, but that was not it’s first meaning and it will not be it’s last.

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      Smashbox says:

      | As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.
      Sorry, but… wrong.

    • Ghil says:

      Steve Hughes makes a great commentary about Offense:

    • iucounu says:

      @Scubamonster:

      “a bunch of pansies.” So you clearly feel being a pansy is not something that it’s good to be, something that people ought to stop being; something effeminate, unmanly. There’s your homophobia right there.

      People don’t have a right to never be offended. But if you go round deliberately using language that you know is offensive to blameless folk who have never done anything bad to you, you’re just being a dickhead. Spouting off about ‘political correctness’ as if you’re some sort of rebel hero who is only just managing to dodge the gulags is a pathetic justification for thoughtlessly hurting people. I’m sure I’m often offensive to people, but if they complain to me I tend to actually apologise for causing them distress. Rather than, y’know, being an asshole or a bully about it.

    • Tyshalle says:

      This is all very retarded. In no way am I talking about the video, which I have not watched, but instead the general view that it doesn’t matter how you mean it, what matters is how I take it. That we should actually censor ourselves because people might get offended by our choice in words, and not our intended meaning behind them.

      To suggest that you could throw out a racial slur and say: “You shouldn’t feel offended, because I meant it as ‘banana'” is intellectually dishonest, and incredibly douchey. Nobody uses those words in a negative connotation unless they’re making some pretentious point like above. Gay, however, for better or worse, is very frequently used in completely different connotations than to actually condemn homosexuality. I know plenty of gay people who throw that word around in the same exact way as any pimply faced prepubescent, and they’re not holding their people back, nor are they ashamed of who they are; they’re just not uptight like most of you seem to be.

      If we’re really going to stop using words that offend people, then eventually we’re going to run out of words completely (or at least the fun ones). After all, certainly calling somebody a dickface is going to offend all of the people who’s faces look like dicks, right? Can’t have that. Can’t use the word stupid, because that would offend anyone with an honest enough assessment of themselves to recognize that they’re dumb. Or hell, we can’t use any insulting terminology at all, because after all, you’re simply using it to hurt somebody else’s feelings, right?

      Let’s just sanitize our entire language until talking stops being fun all together. At least that would satisfy the soccer moms that seem to be inhabiting this thread.

    • The Hammer says:

      By the way:

      We can debate whether ‘faggot’ is an insult geared towards homophobia all day, but when this bloke specifically refers to Silvermoon City – home of the elves – as “queer”, I think we can assume he doesn’t mean in the Tolkien “queer lodgings” way.

      Yes? Or has “queer” got nothing to do with homosexuality either, these days?

    • JackShandy says:

      Dude’s probably just talking about Clockwork Oranges.

    • Reapy says:

      Eh. Seems like the homophobic commit is taken out of context. I understand homophobia exists and is a bad thing, but this was just a guy selecting insults from his probably limited vocabulary, whos minor celebrity seems to come from the fact that he only has 6 insults in his brain to use at any one given time.

      If you have read any kind of wow forums at all you know that his attitude fits right in with what you would read there on a day to day basis, the comedy apparently supposed to be the surfacing of that ‘culture’ from forums to IRL.

      I really don’t see in this context any evidence of homophobia or hate speech towards gay people…but if you want to interpret it that way to make a story and generate comments, i guess that has been successful.

      I’m in the camp of people some would probably call immature. I think all language is welcome, and it is the context and intent of the author which delivers the message, not the specific words chosen. It is one of the reasons I love the jabberwalky by lewis carol so much, a bunch of nonsense words given form within the context, and suddenly a message is delivered.

      Words are words, their meaning can vary wildly depending on the context they are used and the culture they are from. If you try to censor one word, another will surface in its place, having the same meaning. If everyone said ‘aww fudge’ instead of ‘aww fuck’, given enough time fudge would replace the triggers in your brain you have now when you read and see ‘fuck’.

      In terms of the people who have had hard lives with heavy triggers….there are so many of them out there, it is literally impossible when addressing a large audience to never go towards one. A lot of the time i use the word ‘retarded’ or some variation all the time when speaking to friends. One of my friends though dislikes this word as she has a special needs family member and works with lots of special needs people, so when I am around her, I try to not use this word out of respect for a person, but ultimately I don’t attempt to remove the word from my vocabulary since it is still good at effectively communicating itself. EG when you say ‘thats retarded!!!’ it has a different context to ‘thats silly!’. Subtle, but different enough to require two words, and really might say that by using a slightly controversial word you find a meaning you couldn’t by using a ‘clean’ word.

      I don’t get this like shock at shock humor. This is not new, not by a long shot. People have been using offensive language on stage, basically forever. This guy is just, really, really, really, bad at it.

    • marlin says:

      You should all be feeling sorry for us confused Englishpersons. Over here;

      Fag = slang term for ‘cigarette’
      Faggott = Northern England meatball-like delicacy.

    • Tyshalle says:

      Also, not to be a callous dickwad, but as far as this whole sentiment that gay people are getting the shit kicked out of them while being called names that other people use to describe something lame, so what? Clearly the motives behind both situations are different. And people get picked on all the time for a whole slew of different reasons. When I was a kid I was called “Big Head” because my hair tends to grow outward instead of down. Does that mean that if you insult an ego maniac as having a big head that my eyes should start watering, as I take extreme offense at all the childhood pain you’ve dredged up for me? Of course not. And if I did, I’d be in the wrong.

      And can’t we all agree that the reason we don’t throw around the N-word to mean something other than “I hate black people” is not because the word is intrinsically hateful, but because we’re afraid of getting beat to death? If you really want to see the world stop throwing around the word gay so casually, the answer is not to be a sniveling soccer mom about it, it’s to create scarier gay people.

    • JackShandy says:

      Hold on-

      “,,,gay people are getting the shit kicked out of them while being called names that other people use to describe something lame,”

      Is the “Something lame” here “Being Gay”?

    • sinister agent says:

      I really, really need to address this, but this is such bullshit. While a word is still used as a negative descriptor, or even a descriptor for that group, using it to mean something negative is necessarily confusing the meaning. If I use the word “Jewish” and claim that its ok, because its been used so much it just means bad, thats not fine, right? The word needs to be sufficiently disassociated from its roots to get away with that. And for that to happen, of course, it would mean the subculture would have lost that word.

      This is the heart of it as far as I’m concerned. People can try to make out that ‘fag’ and ‘gay’ etc. are just used to mean ‘bad’ and therefore aren’t homophobic anymore, but everyone knows what they come from, and therefore that the implication is that gay is an insult. That’s where the insult is derived from, and that’s still common knowledge – more so in fact than that they just mean “bad”. The association is still there and extremely strong, so the whole “words change” line doesn’t hold water in this case.

      If, for example, I called someone “nigger” when they did something foolish or objectionable, or I disagreed with a patently daft statement by saying “don’t be such an arab”, I’m pretty sure you’d all think I was being a dick, because both those terms already have far more established meanings. Whereas if I’d called you a “cretin” or “idiot”, most people wouldn’t blink, because those words haven’t meant “mentally ill” for about a century, and for the most part people aren’t even aware that they ever did.

      I don’t get offended by it, as a rule. I just think it’s crass and tedious, and frankly calling someone a fag or a thing or concept gay isn’t even very satisfying, as neither word is fun to say. Unlike “cretin”, which is terrific fun to use.

    • Legionary says:

      Words do change their meaning. “Faggot” however means “gay” which means “generally bad”, so everything’s fine and dandy huh?

    • Britney.S says:

      Being a gay male myself, i can tell you that i was not offended by any of this, nor did i think that his intention was to be offensive to gays.
      Used in the right context these words may have been offensive, but in this case it wasnt.

    • Tyshalle says:

      I point at a rock. I say: “That’s a gay rock.”

      That’s not hate speech against cocksuckers nor carpet munchers, and it in no way supports discrimination against them.

      It is possible, and not at all contradictory, to both throw the word “gay” around like candy and also be in total support of equal rights for homosexuals.

      The problem isn’t that I’m using words intending to discriminate. The problem is that you’re too lazy or ill equipped to properly analyze the context in which words are used, and so you’d prefer to scrub our vernacular until everything is clearly labeled Good or Evil. But it ain’t possible, and even if it were it wouldn’t be a positive thing.

    • JackShandy says:

      Tyshalle, the context here is the phrase “Go kill yourself you night elf faggot.” That’s using gay as a synonym for bad thing. That is the context we are talking about, because all of these comments are in the context of this article.

    • Britney.S says:

      i actually think its emo’s he has a problem with.

    • Chandos says:

      Tyshalle says:
      “When I was a kid I was called “Big Head” because my hair tends to grow outward instead of down. Does that mean that if you insult an ego maniac as having a big head that my eyes should start watering, as I take extreme offense at all the childhood pain you’ve dredged up for me? Of course not. And if I did, I’d be in the wrong.”

      It’s very sad reading this and similar comments, especially so because it was only about a week ago or so a gay teenager was driven to suicide through relentless bullying, here in Canada. But clearly he was in the wrong, not the bullies.

      I think some people here tend to forget how deeply gay people are affected by this issue. This is not about someone teasing you because of your hair or freckles or whatever. This is about a culture that normalizes hate and violence towards homosexual people. You yourself may not feel that hate, you may not be swayed by its influence. But there is solid proof, as in the case of people being driven to taking their own fucking lives, that a culture of hate can rise and be supported by what some people here might call benign slang.

      Also @that guy who used the word “pansies”: We are not the pansies who cannot take anything less than perfect, you are, for your refusal to see how ugly the issue is, for your refusal to deal with the full scope of it, for your refusal to take responsibility as a member of the society and culture.

    • sinister agent says:

      The problem isn’t that I’m using words intending to discriminate. The problem is that you’re too lazy or ill equipped to properly analyze the context in which words are used, and so you’d prefer to scrub our vernacular until everything is clearly labeled Good or Evil. But it ain’t possible, and even if it were it wouldn’t be a positive thing.

      So if you did something foolish, and I called you a nigger or jew or indian or taig (assuming you’re not actually black or jewish or etc.), you wouldn’t think that the basis of the insult was that I was implying that those things are by their very nature bad?

      Yes, context is important. But so is the origin of the insult. The whole reason ‘gay’ is used to mean ‘bad’ is because the insult derives from homosexuality being considered inherently bad. It renders the context largely irrelevant. Sure, you’re not intending to attack homosexuals by calling the rock gay, but that use of the word is implicitly saying that being gay is inherently a bad thing.

      As long as ‘gay’ etc. are still commonly (indeed, more commonly than otherwise) used to mean ‘homosexual’, that implication will still be there, as that meaning of the word is far more widely understood and accepted.

      We all know that using words like nigger or queer aren’t automatically racist or homophobic attacks as they depend on the context (although even that’s largely because they’ve been reclaimed by black americans, and some gay people, although that’s less clear-cut). But when the whole point of using them is that you’re using them as a synonym for bad, stupid or otherwise undesirable, then your purported lack of homophobic intent is irrelevant, because the very basis of their use is that they’re insulting.

    • The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

      @Tyshalle Well done for using the word “retarded” to make your point! *slow clap*

    • wisnoskij says:

      “As it’s actual meaning is dick, or douche, not a gay person.”

      For quite awhile it has just meant more specifically bottom of society, (ie someone who has the worst job or is the more reviled minority).
      Maybe in a few years Pedophiles will be the new F****s.

      The history of the word starts with it meaning little stick in England (which is why they call cigarettes this I think) and then it was used to denote a person who carries these little sticks (because it was the worst job around).

    • qrter says:

      So, how many of the people here who say that the words ‘fag’ and ‘faggot’ have lost their homophobic meaning are homosexual themselves?

      Come on, speak up.

    • Wulf says:

      Please tell me I didn’t just read that…

      Thank you, RPS, for your sanity. It is sad that your readers don’t also share that sanity.

      What I have to say is utterly fucking pathetic is that people are so completely inconsiderate of those who’ve actually had to put up with homophobia, in verbal and physical ways. It used to be kind of bad, really bad, and ‘faggot’ was used by the dregs of society, the most bigoted, disgusting, depraved people you could find.

      The problem for me is that I still have that definition in my head. If I see someone use ‘faggot,’ I can’t help but classify them as completely depraved, because they’re opting to use words that have accompanied terrible, horrific acts. It’s kind of like going up to a veteran and asking him if he likes war. It’s an incredibly dickish thing to do. But no, it’s not like some of us have had traumatic experiences with this.

      So long as the “normal” quotient is happy, the white, straight, middle- to upper- class English speaking audience, then everyone should be happy, and we should all accept their happiness at the expense of our own. Because they’re perfect people, and they deserve it.

      See, to me… that equates to perfect bigots.

      Only an arsehole of the worst, worst possible kind is going to use things like ‘faggot’ or ‘gay’ as an insult. Think about this: None of my friends do it. Not one of them! I know people from various communities, from a number of walks of life, and not one of them does it. I don’t think any human capable of compassion would do it. But then, people are very good at dragging down my opinion of humanity in general, though most of all the most “normal” of us, who feel it’s completely okay to be bigoted about anything that doesn’t apply to them.

      It’s not okay to use faggot in the same way that it’s not okay to use nigger.

      I’m sorry, DrGonzo, but frankly? You disgust me.

      (And I have to thank sinister agent for putting this more eloquently than I could. But… frankly? This is an emotionally charged topic for me and I’m doing all I can to hold my tongue.)

    • Wulf says:

      Anyway, what I take away from this is that it only matters if this has been a point of trauma for someone. The young people around here may not remember homophobia when it was bad, or may not have encountered it, but even here in sunny, perfect UK…

      Like I said, it’s like asking a veteran if they like war. It opens up old wounds.

      When you use the words that those people did, how can I not hold you in the same regard as those people? And by those people, I mean those who would beat the shit out of someone just for being different. Because that’s the category you rest in for me when you do that.

      It’s as simple as that.

    • Ironic War Criminal says:

      DrGonzo. I have a South Park reference for you

      [This is what over-privileged manchild nerds believe]

    • Nalano says:

      Two things.

      1) South Park is not an arbiter of American morality.

      2) Call a homosexual man a faggot. See what happens.

    • Mendrake says:

      I am bisexual. Most of my best friends are bisexual. Most of us have been pretty lucky to not have had much bad stuff happen because of other’s bigotry (though one of my friends got in a knife fight because she held hands with another girl). I don’t think we can argue the intent of their speech, and we really shouldent. We know these people are total assholes, that does not seem to be an issue we can debate. Arguing that they do not mean any ill when saying such things is, in my honest opinion, both not the point and bordering on idiotic.
      What we SHOULD be talking about is why those who hired them let this happen. How this stuff made it through screening. How their staff thinks it’s okay. Because when we let bigotry happen in popular culture (and, like it or not, WoW is one of the most popular games out there) we condone it on a personal level. We encourage people to use these words, whatever their context. We encourage the kind of bullying that leads to suicide, and the kind of mentality that forces people to stay in the closet.

    • Snargelfargen says:

      In response to people saying:
      1. “Arguing against displays like this is knee-jerk political correctness. Censoring free speech is wrong” – Here’s how it works. You (or blizzard or whomever) is allowed to say WHATEVER they want, and it can be sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever. That’s fine. Just be aware that anybody has the right to call you out on it. That’s what is happening here. People are getting incensed in the comments, because RPS dared mention that Blizzard supported homophobic view. Then they are understandably becoming hilariously defensive when their (dumb) stance is taken apart by other commenters.
      2. “It wasn’t homophobic in that context. Gay slurs are part of the medium of gaming.”
      -Ok, let’s look a little more closely at this. Context is something established by the tone and subtext of the event. Some pretty famous movies and works of literature have horrible homophobic/misogynistic/whatever things in them, but through the use of subtext and tone they establish a greater artistic meaning, or “context” as it were. So what is the subtext of Cannibal Corpse saying “night elf faggot” or “fucking emo cunt”? The subtext is that the horde is better than alliance. Nothing more, nothing less. There have got to be a million ways to get that across, but Cannibal Corpse (and by extension Blizzard) decided that “faggot” and “cunt” were the way to achieve this. Was that really necessary? Not at all.
      Oh yeah and lets look at tone too. This part is a little confusing, because WoW is a game that has always been marketed at children as well as adults. It is catrtoon-like, has fantasy elements and apart from pop-culture references has never attempted to make any social commentary or be a satire in any way. Cannibal Corpse is a metal band well known for their profane lyrics. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that something here just isn’t right.

      For the record, this looks to me like a hilarious mistake on the part of Blizzard’s marketing department. The censoring of “cunt” while letting “faggot” fly by, just shows some of the inherent hypocrisy in how we treat swear words.

    • rayne117 says:

      Who gives a hoot if you get offended. I sure the hell don’t.

      Bunch of babies here.

      “Britney.S says:10/27/2011 at 16:28
      Being a gay male myself, i can tell you that i was not offended by any of this, nor did i think that his intention was to be offensive to gays.
      Used in the right context these words may have been offensive, but in this case it wasnt.”

      Hey look at that guys, a gay person said he doesn’t care.

    • Snargelfargen says:

      @rayne117

      Your post doesn’t make a lot of sense Rayne.

      “Who gives a hoot if you get offended. I sure the hell don’t.”

      Are you saying that you admit that the slurs are homophobic and that you support them? In that case, good job. Admitting that something can be hurtful towards someone is the first step towards understanding.

      “Hey look at that guys, a gay person said he doesn’t care.”

      Not a surprise really. You gotta have a pretty thick skin on the internet if you are gay or female. That doesn’t make it ok though.

    • sinister agent says:

      I reiterate: Objecting to stuff does not necessarily mean “I AM OFFENDED”. It can just as easily mean “you are wrong”.

    • Cryo says:

      @Snargelfargen: Why are you wasting your time trying to talk to it?

    • Snargelfargen says:

      Wierd, my reply disappeared, here it is again.

      @ Cryo
      Always make a point of engaging with the worst comments, because anything that makes somebody THINK about their viewpoint is a good thing. Shutting them out just perpetuates the problem. And yeah, nobody ever admits they are wrong on the internet. But some of those proud people do go to bed and wake up the next day with a changed opinion.
      I am often guilty of this.

    • Roshin says:

      If I started calling my female co-workers “cocksuckers” or “cunts”, and then try to argue that I was (A) just kidding or (B) just telling it like it is, then I’d be out of a job in less than 30 minutes and rightly so.

      And yes, threads like these do make me wonder if I’m really at RPS anymore.

    • sqparadox says:

      I would like to point something out here. Many people are using the word “lame” as a suggestion for a meaning synonymous with the way the word “gay,” as used within common the vernacular. This is a perfect example of the OP’s point. Using the word “lame” to mean “out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated;” is the slang definition. “Lame” actually means “crippled or physically disabled, especially in the foot or leg so as to limp or walk with difficulty.” and/or “impaired or disabled through defect or injury” and/or “weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy.” The only one of those that comes close to the way people commonly use the word is the third (“weak, inadequate, etc), but even then they usually mean it as a derivative of the slang definition. However, someone could easily take offense at the other definitions.

      Arguably, “lame” could be as offensive to a disabled person as “gay” or “faggot” may be to a homosexual. Now in reality that may not bear out, but that’s not my point.

      My point is that people are commonly using the slang definition with complete disregard for the fact that someone may find the word offensive; just as people do with “gay” and “faggot.” The point is, “lame” is basically just further down the evolutionary path that “gay” and “faggot” are on; a road many words have travelled. I’m not saying “gay” and “faggot” aren’t offensive or that the slang definition should co-opt the traditional one (though in many way it already has, as we can no longer use gay in it’s traditional definition of happy, bright, playful and showy), or even that they are okay to use in this context, I’m simply agreeing with the OP and saying that they’re following a common evolutionary path.

      Where that path will end; whether it will ever reach the same point “lame” has, I don’t know. But to say words don’t change meaning is folly. Language and words evolve over time; meanings change, new words develop and old ones fall out of the lexicon. If you don’t believe me just start picking random words and looking up their etymology, it won’t take long to find a word that has virtually no relation at all to the meaning it once held.

    • Bilbo1981 says:

      Lol John Walker, why is this news? Cannibal Corpse is a joke band!!! Oh my god is it super sensitive day or something, this is the sort of shit I expect to be reading on kotaku not rockpapershotgun. And whats more is this shit is getting loads of replies, christ sakes who gives a shit!

    • Snargelfargen says:

      @Bilbo1981

      Yeah Cannibal Corpse’s lyrics are tongue in cheek. Corpsegrinder’s comments wouldn’t be out of place at a metal concert, where homophobic comments are usually part of the joke. Most metal bands don’t take themselves too seriously and call their audience all sorts of names. It’s offensive, homphobic and sexist, but at least they are aware of it.

      WoW is not metal concert. It is a game marketed and aimed at kids (yeah and adults too). It has cartoonish art, a relatively clean fantasy setting and apart from some pop culture references, does not feature satire or social commentary. So saying stuff like “night elf faggot” and “fucking die, you fucking emo cunt” is totally out of place. Blizzard made a terrible decision to hire a man to call their customers derogatory, bigoted names.

    • Premium User Badge

      Nogo says:

      Did you miss the Naggers episode of South Park?

      Ya know, the one where they say it’s ignorant to claim something is inoffensive if you’re not part of the group that would take offense.

    • Reapy says:

      Just wanted to pop on and say completely agree with sqparadox.

      I also am incredulous as to how you can say that when one person speaks a word and intends it as meaning A, it in reality means B. If you call any person a fag to their face with an angry tone its going to upset them, regardless of their sexual orientation, it is used as an offensive word.

      I don’t really understand the leap from, you use insulting word A, with a common use context of ‘you are a dumbass’ into meaning the person actually in reality is a proponent of hate crimes and viciously beating people of a select orientation.

      People have all sorts of traumatic upbringings. Hell I hated where I grew up and had a hard time and really just needed to get out of there. I went back over this weekend to visit my parents and walking around the place I was getting triggers left and right, from the way people talked to the way people dressed and looked. It brought up all sorts of bad memories and put me in a pretty bad place.

      But that doesn’t mean that the people walking around wearing xyz cloths or having their accent are at fault for those things, and they clearly aren’t meaning to upset me. I have my triggers and things that bother me.

      Honestly the best thing I would think would be to let the word faggot continue its drift away from meaning a gay male. The more people blow up and try to wildly shift the context of the word’s use mean hate crime support, the more you fight to tie it together.

      It is very clear that the context of the ‘production’ here is intended to be offensive humor. It might be that you think offensive humor doesn’t have a place at blizzcon, and you might be right, but to argue that this is hate speach and homophobia is quite a logical leap, to say the least.

      Being called an alliance fag does not mean ‘i hate gay people and think they should be beaten and tormented’. Stopping to use the word faggot will not change this type of behavior and is actually quite LAME if you think that because you stopped using faggot as an insult you are somehow going to make being a GBTL easier on a person, it is laughable.

      The word isn’t driving this behavior forward, it is simply people being taught poor things form poor parents. I honestly think at this moment in time in the US at least popular culture is extremely gay friendly, and I honestly don’t think that culturally we are driving forward a gay bashing planet.

      Bah whatever I can go on forever, we are probably going to all agree to disagree. Just because we all play games doesn’t mean that we see the world the same way, and issues of censorship (yes, this is what is argued) hit very close to home for many people.

      We might not like what we hear, but it can be spoken. But even worse is when people twist the message to hear something offensive and targeted at them, when it is not in any capacity what so ever.

    • Snargelfargen says:

      I don’t think anybody here is accusing Blizzard of actively participating in gay-bashing. Chances are whoever was responsible for organizing this part of Blizzcon and releasing the video didn’t realize that it was going to be so offensive.

      This is more about pointing out it out. Pretty much saying “hey guys, this is homophobic”. A lot of the time people will say and do very offensive things not out of any particular hatred, so much as ignorance. I’m glad that RPS is there to speak out about this sort of thing.

      Simliarly the meaning of words such as “fag” and “gay” is definitely changing, but it is still very important to be aware of the connotations they carry. Use those words in the wrong way and you will make a jackass of yourself. That’s just the way it is and will be for a long time.

    • Premium User Badge

      lurkalisk says:

      Part of what keeps the “hate” going is the fact that people care so much. Yes, he said bad words. Has it effected ANYONE? No, at least not anyone with a shred of self esteem.

    • Snargelfargen says:

      Wow lurkalisk, you must have powerful psychic abilties to be able to poll everybody in the world! I too, think people with poor self esteem deserve to be unhappy!

      Seriouspost: It’s about how those “bad words” are used, not the words themselves.

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      Using ‘gay’ or ‘faggot’ to indicate something is bad is *always* problematic., because it reinforces the cultural perception that those things are bad.

      You can fully support gay rights, and go to gay pride in support, and be gay yourself, and still the use of those words in that way undermines being gay as a 100% fine and totally as good as other people thing. Maybe the act of using those words that way isn’t *always* a very strong statement, but the association and the result is there every time.

      When this is explicitly pointed out to you, and you just flatly deny it, all you have done is move from unthinkingly damaging, or unthinkingly hypocritical into a place where you have decided to keep being damaging or hypocritical via the power of your own denial.

    • FunkyBadger3 says:

      I agree with Wulf. There, I said it.

    • Lemming says:

      @The Hammer

      have to completely disagree with you about ‘cocksucker’

      As an insult, it is nothing to do with gay or straight – it is about submission. I refer you to: ‘Corporate cocksucker’.

    • Premium User Badge

      lurkalisk says:

      @Snargelfargen

      It just may be a good idea to endeavor to better your reading comprehension skills.

      The only possible inference that could be made from my statement is that it requires very little self esteem to persist without taking offence in the face of such statements (or even take notice). I say this as I cannot account for those who either take things so personally as to give a damn, or those who’s self esteem is less than average (whatever that may be exactly). It could be just as easy for them, it just seemed unlikely to me.

      How you understood that my statement had anything to do with what anyone deserves is beyond me.

    • MultiVaC says:

      The word “fag” has just evolved to mean “anything I dislike” instead of “gay person”! So it’s not homophobic at all, right guys?

      I can’t believe people actually buy this line of reasoning. Yes, words do evolve, and someday “fag” will probably stop being be a hurtful word to almost anyone. Feel free to use it then, but don’t hold your breath waiting for that. It’s going to be a long fucking time.

    • misterk says:

      Because I still labour under the false apprehension that I might change people’s minds.

      First, lets address the post specifically. The post is not about the band in question, but Blizzard’s choice to highlight said language, effectively “okaying” it to their audience, and thus making a more exclusionary environment for homosexual players in WoW. This is a strange thing for a big company to do, as John points out in the article, and seems misjudged. The article doesn’t actually claim that this is the worst thing in the world, but that it might be wise to you know, NOT do it.

      For those of you who desperately want to use the word faggot… Why? We’ve demonstrated that it has a history of being used harmfully and awfully to hurt homosexuals, and that it is still used in this manner by many people. So why not not use it? Seriously, is your vocabulary so stunted that the only epithets you have available to you are ones that come with a taint of homophobia? Is your communication at all harmed by this? You know what I did when I found out that lame, or indeed mong, were words that were still felt to be hurtful by many disabled people? I tried to stop using them. Its just not that hard… I don’t need to reclaim these words. If I have a reason to use them beyond just punctuation then I will use them, but I usually don’t.

    • TheGameSquid says:

      I don’t use the word “faggot” that much, but I’m one of those people that doesn’t necessarily considers it to be offensive towards homosexuals. But that’s not the point.

      The point here is that most of us are probably not homosexuals (based merely on statistics). If you’re not a homosexual, it is impossible for us to have any meaningful conversation about this. Are we going to have a discussion about what it’s like being black in racist America next, for example?

      There’s no need to be “politically correct” if you ask me. All you need to do is look at your environment and assess the situation. Are you GENUINELY going to offend someone by using the word? If not, feel free. if you have your doubts, don’t, etc. There’s no general rule for politeness. The idea of being “politically correct” makes no sense, because it’s completely devoid of context.

      Anyway, I love you guys here at RPS, but we really, really, REALLY need to stop having this insanely difficult discussions that CANNOT be resolved or agreed upon and which are obviously way over our heads.

      As I said: homosexuals, feel free to discuss and share your experiences. Others: it’s probably better you stop trying to discuss this, as you will never understand.

    • Nesetalis says:

      I too don’t understand this “it’s okay to use the word fag” idea.. I have a gay room mate, who says the word with negative connotations even!… while the other gay room mate is constantly offended by this. The idiot roomie is a typical gamer kid of course, with a entitlement complex, and no sense of empathy. But he seems to think its okay to use the words “faggot” “fagballs” “fag” and “faggy” in regards to things he dislikes…. this kinda shit is beyond me.

  2. The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

    I guess because that’s the sort of person they want to play their games.

    • nanowired says:

      Pretty much.

      WoW has slowly been overpopulated with people who are just unpleasant to play the game, with or against. Sore losers, angst teenagers, and people who take the game far too seriously spam the waves with insults 24/7.

  3. JFS says:

    … not only when it comes to World of Warcraft.

  4. PJMendes says:

    This is not homophobic in the least, this is “badass” or “edgy” (as seen by these people, not necessarily my views), so you’re basically missing the point.

    Would be nice to see some proper coverage of Blizzcon here though (stuff relevant to PC gaming) instead of these sort of “Politically Correct” rants.

    • Premium User Badge

      Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

      “You’re gay so kill yourself” is neither edgy nor badass.

    • HexagonalBolts says:

      If they’d broadcast ‘you’re black so kill yourself’ and RPS took issue, would you have dismissed that as a politically correct rant as well?

    • Premium User Badge

      Lakshmi says:

      HexagonalBolts beat me to it – this isn’t edgy or badass. It is however bloody stupid of Blizzard.

    • str4 says:

      I’ve always been curious as to why people refuse to understand the words people say rather than just hearing them.

      Stop reading into things just so you can push politically correctness on people who are just having fun. Even if you’re not part of the culture, at least try and understand it.

      This bums me out RPS. You’re better than this.

      If you don’t _understand_ what I’m saying then your just being obstinate.

    • StenL says:

      I have to agree. These political correctness rants from Walker are quickly becoming the worst things on the site. Also, getting mad at Corpsegrinder is pointless as that is exactly what he wants you to do. The relatively stupid choice Blizzard made in broadcasting his rant is a different issue, but in no way should be considered worth posting on this site.

    • misterk says:

      “I’ve always been curious as to why people refuse to understand the words people say rather than just hearing them.

      Stop reading into things just so you can push politically correctness on people who are just having fun. Even if you’re not part of the culture, at least try and understand it.

      This bums me out RPS. You’re better than this.

      If you don’t _understand_ what I’m saying then your just being obstinate.”

      Orrr you could communicate in a manner which is not easily mistaken for homophobic. Its not hard to NOT use slurs which could look, to a gay person who has, say, lived in fear of being out their whole lives (note, gay suicides are not the be all and end all of this. It is still illegal to be gay in many parts of the world, and people have been killed by people and governments for being so). Why is that so hard? Thats all political correctness is, you know- an attempt to communicate in a manner that clearly gives one’s meaning.

      If you mean that something is bad, there is a whole thesaurus of words you can use that won’t make people think you are a homohphobe. You are correct, RPS IS better than this. Its better than the laziness that thinks that being able to call someone a faggot is an essential right that must be defended.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I didn’t hear him say ‘you’re gay so kill yourself’. I heard, you’re Alliance so kill yourself.

    • Belsameth says:

      I wasy saying the same thing, tho slightly more blunt and less “PC”

      I’ll just +1 this to prevent hurting some poor soul…

    • Premium User Badge

      Hanban says:

      The ‘political correctness’ rants are not exclusive to Mr. Walker on RPS. They’ll likely make their way back here more times, so perhaps it’s time you get used to it.

    • HexagonalBolts says:

      I didn’t realise Daily Mail readers were the type to frequent RPS! Or at least those are the sort who I thought posted comments about ‘political correctness gawn maadddd’.

      EVEN if corpsegrinder doesn’t directly intend his words to be homophobic (which they quite simply are, in the same way that if he said any racist slur, that too would be prejudiced), it is not acceptable to make a legitimate title for a subsection equivocal to ‘stupid’/’hateworthy’/’immoral’.

    • Khann says:

      Sorry. reply fail.

    • The Ninja Foodstuff formerly known as ASBO says:

      Yes! Down with political correctness! Let us label people and then use those labels to bring shame upon those people!

    • hjparcins says:

      PC Gaming Since 1973. Shit, I thought the PC stood for Personal Computer. My bad!

      I thought I misclicked and landed on Huffington Post or Perez Hilton or something.

      Seriously though, how many rants on homophobia and “Gays in Gaming” news topics must we be submitted to? I guess if I ever need to keep abreast of the advancement of homosexual gamers I can just pop in to RPS and read umpteen articles on how BioWare, despite heading in an otherwise shitty direction with all the corners cut and Day Zero DLC, is at least incorporating 2.5 gay characters in their next game and finally permitting male Shepard to have interspecies gay sex with Garrus and Wrex simultaneously in the Citadel Bathhouse.

      Don’t even get me started on the Orson Scott Card article. What a waste of time.

      RPS might miss a pretty big PC gaming development here and there, but God forbid we miss out on the fact that Bethesda was too lazy to code a block on marrying the male blacksmith with your horned viking beastman, conveniently leading to the new and ABSOLUTELY VITAL feature of gay furry relationships! PRE ORDER LOCKED IN.

    • HexagonalBolts says:

      This is really just people trolling now. Ultimately, If you don’t enjoy RPS’s writing then, quite simply, go somewhere else. I’m sure that they’ll be devastated at the loss. If bland poorly written gaming news devoid of moral judgement, personal expression or insightful analysis gets your juices going then, by jove, there are a trazillion sites out there for you to read! The world is your oyster!

    • apocraphyn says:

      PJMendes was talking along the right lines. It’s all dependent on context – people are taking this far too seriously. It isn’t ‘right’, but calling things “gay” or people “faggots” should not always be construed to mean it’s an offensive term directed against a sexual orientation. As far as language goes, it’s the equivalent of calling someone a “dick” – which basically equates to “idiot”, (unless you’re actually talking about man sausage). This doesn’t mean I’m a proponent of such language being bandied about – it’s just a sign of the times and today’s youth culture/slang.

      It’s a very immature and fairly lacking insult, but it’s clearly offensive enough to stir up hundreds of comments of sociological and psychological debate. This is not homophobia. In a similar aspect, I would argue that the misogny created within Arkham City is appropriate, considering that it’s criminal scum that’s doing the name calling, calling Batman similarly mean things. Whether it’s inclusion was necessary is debatable – but it’s “gritty” and “realistic”, a target many games these days seem to aim for. If you want even more wantonly vivid examples of misogny and sexism, open some of the goddamn comic books the game is based on.

      Personally, I think the focus of this article should have been upon the heavily promoted racism between the “Horde” and “Alliance”, rather than some weak argument against a slew of childish banter. That would have made for a much more interesting topic.

    • Benga says:

      calling someone a ‘faggot’ =/= homophobic?! Right…

      Reasons why this is not the same as calling someone a ‘dick’ – there is not a group of people who associate themselves with the word dick AND have a history of persecution AND live in societies where they risk discrimination/physical harm due to their social group. Using the term Faggot as an insult reinforces the image of Gay is bad, therefore it promotes homophobia.
      Would you call someone a ‘Nigger’ as an insult and argue that as it was to a non-black person it wasn’t racist?

      The ‘racism’ of Alliance vs Horde?!… good trolling but I am not going near that one.

    • nanowired says:

      No, “badass and edgy” is kneeing one of these punks in the groin, and leaving their crumpled body on the ground as you walk off into the sunset.

  5. Premium User Badge

    Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

    Dubya tee eff, Blizzard?

    Seriously.

    • stele says:

      I think this guy takes himself (and WoW) *WAY* too seriously. The phrase “get a life” may be entirely apropos here.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I actually don’t think he takes himself seriously in the slightest. Also, I don’t see how you could watch him, listen to what he says and then think he IS being serious at all.

    • stele says:

      It doesn’t matter if he himself is being serious or not. All the ranting (serious or not) about what people do *in a game* is what I’m talking about.

    • Heisenberg says:

      as far as i can tell , he is pretty drunk and just got a bit over excited about a game he loves. You could say he is taking the role playing part of belonging to the Horde a bit serious.
      i didnt percieve any of this as anti gay…sorry.

  6. mjig says:

    Yeah, calling female characters ‘bitches’. Extreme sexism.

    Get over yourselves, there are real problems in the world without people trying their hardest to be offended at every little thing.

    • mjig says:

      Yeah, man. Clearly I can’t understand because of all that white male privilege. The catch all response of cultural marxists.

      Feminism is a victim ideology. Its goal is teaching people to be offended to better fill the pockets of writers and lecturers and Women’s Studies professors. It’s what most of our modern society is based on. Each group vying for control of who gets to be the most marginalized. Isn’t that was “Progressive Stack” is all about? Literally ranking people by how much of a right they have to be offended at things?

    • DrGonzo says:

      I don’t want to be associated with that attitude. I’m well aware of the sexism and homophobia that is rife in western society, and don’t deny things have to change. But this isn’t a problem and going on about things like this actually hurts the fight for equality imo.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rodafowa says:

      “Yeah, man. Clearly I can’t understand because of all that white male privilege. The catch all response of cultural marxists.”

      No, dude. Clearly you CAN understand. The problem, which is considerably worse, is that you WON’T understand because you can’t be fucked to make even a token effort to not be an arsehole to people who still get treated pretty shittily by society as a whole.

    • henben says:

      Anyone who goes on about “cultural Marxism” is just a racist/sexist/homophobe who doesn’t like being called on their racism/sexism/homophobia, or even having to contemplate that there are people who are different from them. That Breivik guy who shot up the Norwegian island full of kids was *obsessed* with the idea of cultural Marxism.

      Now, that might sound like I’m trying to smear by association, so I want to make it clear that I’m not saying everyone who believes in cultural Marxism is a dysfunctional loner with a tiny dick who will one day go on a kill-crazy rampage. Just 90% of them.

    • andrewdoull says:

      While there are plenty of real problems in the world other than being offended, one of the real problems in the gamer community is being offensive in exactly this way. Which is why RPS is exactly right to call this out as being entirely inappropriate.

      The fact that so many people are jumping to this idiots defence shows just how far the gamer community has to go.

    • matty_gibbon says:

      @mjig

      So you don’t think that sexism or homophobia are real problems? What about racism, is that a real problem?

      Maybe you don’t think that people are affected by these things. Where on the spectrum of imaginary to real problems would you put these issues?

  7. Risingson says:

    Of course it’s homophobic and offensive. And if you don’t see that way, you lack empathy, education, and just the intelligence to put anything in context. Period.

    And please do not compare it to South Park. South Park laugh at things laughing at themselves at the same time (or above it all).

    • Premium User Badge

      felisc says:

      Yep

    • DrGonzo says:

      I want to justify myself, say how only recently I attended a gay wedding. How I spent my childhood having racist jokes made against me. But that just makes me sound like a Daily Mail reader ‘oh some of my best friends are black!’

  8. ynamite says:

    Uhm, Sam Didier sucks as a singer, songwriter and his band blows too. He should go back to drawing characters and environments and/or whatever else he does at Blizzard.

    I understand how somebody may feel offended by this, but I say, don’t take it seriously. You should feel pity, for them, if aynthing.

  9. Simon Hawthorne says:

    The funny thing about the games industry being immature is that it’s generally a reflection of society. Gaming is the most interactive medium so it’s harder to prevent immature attitudes (I’m thinking particularly of multiplayer games). If people weren’t so immature then gaming would be more mature.

    People don’t like to think that they’re immature but it seems a lot of people will act mature when given the chance in an anonymised setting.

    Of course, that doesn’t justify Blizzard promoting this kind of crap. Quite frankly it’s bizzare.

  10. JoWoo says:

    Even if this could somehow be construed as not homophobic, it isn’t exactly proof that the industry is populated by intelligent, well-disposed people is it?

    Seems to have been a pretty good day for white male stupidity all in all.

  11. bleeters says:

    Yeah, it was utterly appalling. Not so much that a loud mouthed idiot ranted and swore, but that they went ahead and put him on stage. Disgusting. But then, this is the same event where players turning up in alliance cosplay outfits got beaten up for it, so I guess they’re giving people what they want.

    And people wonder why I don’t play WoW anymore.

    • Nim says:

      You are taking ~11 million people and packing them together into one negative stereotype.

      Also that attack. Read about it. There were two young possibly intoxicated ill-parented males with clearly limited thinking capacity who shouted obscenities and try to pull a woman’s lanyard from her which caused her pain as she was leaving the event together with her husband. While unfortunate the incident has taken sensationalist proportions and become something Alliance players like to bring up to illustrate Horde favoritism at Blizzcon. However, no alliance players really got beaten up due to their costumes or in-game affiliation. THAT would have made front-page news in the mainstream media, believe me.

  12. gr0undzer0 says:

    I’m not saying its not offencive to people out there but I am saying Who gives a F___ if it is? D___ nanny state.

  13. Valvarexart says:

    I thought it was a commonly known fact that all alliance players are faggots. That’s an instrument, for your information.

  14. Mordsung says:

    Louis CK did an excellent set explaining that in today’s world, the word faggot no longer applies to gay people. When we use the word, we’re not associating it with gay people anymore. Or, at least, someone like me is not. I’d never call a gay guy a faggot unless he was actually being a faggot.

    Louis CK also has similar opinions on the word nigger and cunt. We just don’t use these words anymore like they were originally used. I’ve not used nigger as a negative word in forever, I use it as a term of endearment to my friends and we’re all white as sheets.

    Like when someone says “I got gyped” do you think they know that’s technically a racial slur against gypsies? No, it’s become part of our vocabulary and it has lost it’s racial meaning.

    Similarly, faggot has lost it’s homophobic meaning. Faggot has taken on such a definition of it’s own that I can’t even really define what it means. Faggot means faggot. It doesn’t mean gay, it doesn’t even mean “being a pussy”, it means faggot (though usually I just use fag).

    • Premium User Badge

      LaunchJC says:

      You……what?

      EDIT: Sent too damn soon, I agree with you on the meaning of some words changing, certainly I know less people who are offended by Cunt then you’d expect, but the N word? Not so with you on that one.

    • The Hammer says:

      Just because you don’t hear it said offensively in your social environment, doesn’t mean thousands upon thousands of people don’t hear the same thing, directed with great hatred at them, every week.

      Blizzard is an international company. To many, the word “faggot” – and the other words you use – are still thrown at people around the world. Homophobia and racism have not gone away, even if laws have been put in place to discourage them.

      The civil rights movement et al did not kill discrimination.

    • Mordsung says:

      The Hammer,
      If someone uses any word with malicious intent, that’s bad.
      The word itself isn’t bad, it’s the intent of the word that is bad.

      I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rodafowa says:

      You’re right! Of course! That word’s lost its meaning. It’s just a complete, remarkable coincidence that it’s the word that knuckledragging arseholes always choose to describe gay people. Monkeys and typewriters, eh?

    • The Hammer says:

      If the word originally derives from racial or homophobic abuse, then why use it? Are you reappropriating it? You’ve already said that you and your friends are ‘white as sheets’, so…?

    • John Walker says:

      Hear that gay people – you’re not to find it offensive any more.

    • bleeters says:

      You’ll forgive me if I’m skeptical that a man who punctuates his speaks with “fuck” and spits out wonders like “fuck off, you fucking emo cocksucker” like he’s being paid by the swear word is going to appreciate the linguistic independence of “faggot”as a term.

    • Mordsung says:

      Rodafowa
      There are lots of people who use the word “Liberal” as an insult, does it make it one?
      There are lots of people who use the word “gay” itself as an insult, does that means we can’t use the word gay?
      Nearly any benign word can be used as an insult, doesn’t it then follow that a previous harmful word can become benign?

      Again, I point out “gyped”. That’s a racial insult, but when was the last time someone got insulted by the word gyped?

    • Will Tomas says:

      Except it hasn’t, they haven’t, and it doesn’t just work like that. You may use the words in that context and not mean anything by it, and to your friends who get that, then there’s not necessarily a problem for them. Unless you were with someone who has had those insults thrown at them because they were black, gay, or different in any way from the white male mainstream and it has all the associations of vile hatred they’ve experienced. Cos that’s what you’re playing with.

      Words have power. Don’t forget that. Overuse of these words by you desensitises you to them but it doesn’t do that to anyone but you. To someone not desensitised, who has been verbally abused in that way, it is a big deal. And it should be the sort of offense we should worry about.

      Hate speech – which is how those words are used by some people, even though that’s not how you’re using it – is a crime. The reason why is because of the way language like that has been used to justify hate attacks on people.

      Blizzard are idiots for giving this band a platform, the band are utter knobs for acting in this way. What Blizzard did is put this stuff on a public forum. What bad-taste jokes you make with your mates doesn’t bother me but Blizzard putting this stuff on display definitely does.

    • Premium User Badge

      Hanban says:

      @Mordsung

      “I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.”

      So you do not at all find the word context sensitive then? While you make a difference in the intent of the word when it is spoken, do you not care about the subjective experience of the word to others?

      Someone who isn’t straight will have had the pleasure of experiencing the word with its malicious intent. Thus their experience of the word will have negative connotations for obvious reasons. In a context with someone who has this experience of the word, will you not modify your vocabulary? Or will use insist on using the word despite of the emotions it can conjure in the other person?

    • Mordsung says:

      Hanban
      I care about how I intend to use the word.

      If I incidentally offend someone, I will calmly explain to them that when I use the word I do not use it in an insulting way.

      If they continue to be insulted after I have calmly explained this to them, that ceases being my problem.

      Words only have as much power as you choose to give them.

      I don’t find any word on earth offensive, I don’t ask anything of anyone else that I don’t already ask of myself. If I found at least one word inherently offensive, then maybe I could see where people are coming from, but I don’t.

      I find context offensive, not words themselves.

      I am only holding myself to the same standard I hold everyone else.

    • The Hammer says:

      “There are lots of people who use the word “Liberal” as an insult, does it make it one?”

      The word ‘liberal’ did not start out as a word to strongly ridicule a minority, and ostracise them from society. Liberal is still an official word used by many political parties, organisations, and stances. It does not have a history of minority discrimination, and nor is it used today to discriminate. To make someone look like a clown? Yes. But never to actually discriminate based on gender, ethnicity, or sexuality.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rodafowa says:

      Mordsung – Since you’re a fan of Louis CK, I’m assuming you’ve seen the poker scene from the first series of his TV show? I’m interested how that fits in with your idea that the word’s “lost its meaning”?

    • misterk says:

      ““I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.””

      WHY NOT? Seriously if this word offends a lot of people, why not NOT use it? Its hardly a barrier to communication, is it? I just don’t understand why its so hard to discuss things in a manner that might not offend people.

      You know whats even worse about this? At least if it was a racial slur, your friendship group might not contain anyone of said race, but its entirely possible you have a closeted friend who you use homophobic language in front of. And hey, maybe they know that you don’t mean it…. but mayve they don’t, and maybe you’re making their lives a little worse.

      Because you don’t want to stop using a word. Congratu-fucking-lations.

    • JackShandy says:

      Well, the context here is a guy shouting “Kill yourself”. So I’m not sure this argument is totally relevant.

      In the right context, yes, the word could be almost totally inoffensive. Louie CK did it with the utmost tact.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rodafowa says:

      “Words only have the power you choose to give them.”

      Or to put it another way, “I’m sorry that people shouted that word at you all through your schooldays and hearing it makes all those memories come flooding back, but if you won’t just pull yourself together get the fuck over years of trauma and self-loathing it that’s hardly my fault, is it?”

      It’s Zen for “I can’t be bothered.”

    • Mutak says:

      Oh, a straight white guy thinks that gays and minorities are overreacting? I’m so surprised. :|

      “I’m not going to modify my vocabulary because some people can’t understand the concept of context.”

      You are the one who does not appear to understand context. Context does not just refer to the conversation you are currently having. Context also takes into account to the history and culture surrounding that conversation as well.

    • Mordsung says:

      Rodafowa

      The burning gays with witches explanation for the word faggot is actually false etymology. I used to also believe this was the origin of the word, but I was corrected by my English professor in University.

      The actual origin of the word as an insult was originally aimed at women, specifically old women, and the insult began as “faggot gatherer” as in someone who gathers faggots, or kindling, as the original use of the word.

      Eventually “faggot gatherer” became the equivalent of saying “effeminate” or “female like” and then eventually was shortened to just “faggot.”

      Turns out wikipedia also has the listing of the proper definition.
      Not sure where the story about burning gays with witches version came from originally, but it’s definitely not the origin of the word.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

    • Premium User Badge

      Rodafowa says:

      The etymology of the word SO is not the fucking point of that sketch.

    • henben says:

      If you actually watch the bit in question, you’ll see the whole point of the joke is that when CK was a kid, he didn’t know “faggot” was to do with being gay. He’s *not* saying that “faggot” has lost its homophobic meaning, as you’ll see if you watch this bit of his TV show: http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2010/06/louis-ck-extraordinary-ten-minute

      Louis CK is a very smart and thoughtful comic. Obviously too subtle for some.

    • Mordsung says:

      Mutak
      Can you point out the part where I said gays and minorities are over reacting?

      You’ll notice everyone in this thread who is over reacting is about as white and straight as I am.

      Maybe it’s just a uniquely Canadian take on the situation, but even among my black and gay friends, I can use both the word nigger and faggot without problem, because they know that I don’t have any issue with their colour or sexuality. I mean, shit, when I lived in Windsor (Ontario, Canada) I was introduced to a black kid who informed me his name was “Nigger Mike” or “Slave Mike”. I have two friends named Richard, one is white, the other black. White Rich is just ‘Rich’, black Rich is “Ethnic Rich”. I have a Mexican friend named Lee who’s nickname is “Mexican’t” and they all have no issue with calling me or my white friends Blanco, Honkey, Cracker, Kwai-Lo etc

      Hell, my drug dealer goes by “Chinese Phil” and he’s fucking Vietnamese and uses a picture of a plate of fried rice as his MSN messenger avatar.

      I mean, shit, is a single person complaining about the rant on this site actually gay?

      Again, maybe it’s a Canadian thing. We’re not so uptight about this stuff.

      Edit: Thinking about it further, it likely is a Canadian thing. We have the most ethnically diverse population of any country in the world. Here, you grow up side by side with every race imaginable and if you’re under 30, the idea of being racist or homophobic in Ontario is foreign to you because you’ve been surrounded by kids of every colour and kids who had two moms or two dads since you were a little kid. Racist slurs became a joke very early, because we found racism so hilarious to begin with. Just the idea that you hate someone because they happen to have a different melanin production gene than you doesn’t make any sense when your kindergarten girlfriend was Chinese, or Somalian, or Guatemalan.

      Racial slurs just became comical to us, all of us, regardless of race, because we didn’t experience true racism until we got older and met people from outside Ontario.

    • Khann says:

      I’ve been beaten to a chorus of “dirty hippy” before. Being that I am, should I get up in arms any time somebody uses the word “hippy” as a derogatory term?

    • empfeix says:

      Mordsung you might be right, its the same here in St. Catharines

    • JackShandy says:

      “Maybe it’s just a uniquely Canadian take on the situation, but even among my black and gay friends, I can use both the word nigger and faggot without problem, because they know that I don’t have any issue with their colour or sexuality”

      Hey dude, I’m super glad for you. What does that have to do with a guy yelling that stuff out to an audience of randoms?

    • Mutak says:

      It might be a distinctly Canadian reaction to believe racial and anti-gay slurs are no big deal, but it’s more likely the same old straight white male privilege. It’s easy, safe, and self-serving for you to dismiss the importance of these things.

      As for your friends: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#backup

    • rayne117 says:

      Hear this John: Why should I care if you get offended?

    • Tyshalle says:

      Let me ask all you uptight, oversensitive people this: Do you really think that those of us who aren’t offended by the use of these words are anti-gay? Do you think that we do not support equal rights for all people? Do you think we look down upon homosexuals?

      Or what, we’re straight and white and male, so we can’t empathize? Hey. Fuck you. I was picked on and ridiculed for being gay every single day I was in high school. Okay, so I wasn’t actually gay, but so what?

      Words have no power without context except to the uptight, pretentious and oversensitive among us.

      The same goes for this sexism bullshit in Arkham City. I mean, really? Catwoman is hot, and so the game is immorally sexist? I played the game through to completion and never once got any hints of sexism in that game.

      I don’t think the immaturity belongs to vulgar people like me. I think it belongs to people way too pretentious and oversensitive to let stuff like this just roll past them. When I finally watched the video, I was like: “Yeah, this guy is a dickhead.” But the fact that JW honed in and twisted the intentions of this dude around to be: “I hate gay people and want them to kill themselves” is so ridiculous, it only shows you guys to be hypersensitive and way too insecure.

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      I don’t think you’re anti-gay. I think you’re being stupid for no reason.

      You’re insisting that it’s perfectly fine to use ‘faggot’ all day long and that there’s no problem with it because you don’t mean it with invective, totally skipping over the reinforcement of gay == bad, and in fact denying that it could ever possibly happen, when you’re of course doing it all day.

      That’s dumb, insensitive, and supporting homophobia, whether or not you like it.

      If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

    • FunkyBadger3 says:

      Mordsung: good for you, but I do advise you not to take you enlightened attitude out with you onto the streets or bars of, say, Hackney…

    • Premium User Badge

      Dorchadas says:

      This may be the most incredibly ignorant thing I’ve read in literally…minutes. I did read the earlier part of the thread, after all.

      So, you, a guy who is “whiter than [a] sheet,” gets to tell historically-discriminated minority groups what they’re allowed to be offended by? And you don’t see the problem with that?

    • Tyshalle says:

      I don’t see a problem with telling someone that if they’re offended by something that is very clearly not meant to be offensive, then that’s on them. It doesn’t matter whether it’s easy or hard not to use a certain word, the fact of the matter is, it doesn’t make me an asshole for choosing to use a word just because someone else is offended by it. Sure, you’re allowed to think I’m a self-righteous dickhead, or this incredibly stupid “middle class white male syndrome” nonsense being thrown around, but likewise I’m allowed to think you’re a hypersensitive, pretentious douchebag for judging me for it. This can go around and around.

      Ultimately, this is about whether or not I’m responsible for coddling your hypersensitive feelings. Maybe I’m just staunchly libertarian on this issue, but I believe that my intentions matter more than your pretentious sensibilities, and so I will continue to go around and use whatever words I want to.

      That said, I do think that intentions matter. And so when someone calls me a ‘nigger’ for missing my shot in Team Fortress 2, I do tend to assume that they’re a racist, no good redneck. On the other hand, when I make a bad pun and my girlfriend tells me not to be a gaylord, my gut instinct isn’t to assume she is condemning homosexuality and letting me know that if I ever allow a dick into my mouth or asshole, I will deserve to go to hell for all of eternity.

      But then this goes back to my earlier point, which is, if you really want to stop people from using those words, we really need to get scarier gay people.

    • Premium User Badge

      ffordesoon says:

      @ the OP:

      Real quickly, as I’ve got some Dark Souls to play:

      You don’t understand the Louis CK bit. He’s not saying that it’s okay to use “faggot” at all. He’s saying that the intent behind his use of the word (or “nigger”, or “cunt”) is not malicious in the way someone homophobic intends it, that he finds such words interesting as words, and that he feels somewhat guilty when he uses the words to himself, because even though he enjoys saying the words and doesn’t mean them in an offensive way, he knows others will find his use of the words offensive. He’s saying that he grew up believing the word “faggot” just meant “annoying”, and that he personally would not call a gay man pleasuring another gay man a “faggot” unless that gay man was being a jerk to him. He’s not saying it’s okay for you to use the word because “the meaning has changed”; he’s venting his own guilty thoughts on the word in a comedic way.

      And, look, I have a friend who uses “faggot” regularly, and he’s not a homophobe by any means. He brings up the South Park example. He’s fully behind gay marriage, would only be flattered if a gay man propositioned him, and grew up using it simply as code for “annoying”. I understand how you can use the word without any hateful intent towards gay people.

      But if a gay man was walking by while my friend and I were talking, and my friend used the word, the guy might yell at us for being homophobes, and I wouldn’t blame him for thinking so. I’ve told my friend that it makes me slightly uncomfortable that he uses the word, because even though I understand his intent, people who don’t know him well won’t understand. And he’s been receptive, and I’m working with him on it. I fully expect someone who posts after me to call my friend a homophobe despite that explanation, and I won’t blame them for thinking so. Because it is fundamentally ridiculous to use racist and sexist slurs and expect people to instinctively understand that you don’t “mean it that way”. If we all had telepathic powers, things would be different. But we don’t.

      So, basically, if you’re using “faggot” and “nigger” and “cunt” on a regular basis, and you are not currently taking part in a lecture series about racism or sexism or something, you need to stop using those words. The person who uses a racial slur is not the one who’s allowed to say whether it’s offensive; it’s the person who hears the word who decides that, and you do not have the right to tell them it isn’t offensive. Because communication is two-way, not one-way.

      Oh, and by the way, anyone can potentially find a word offensive, or not. Just because I’m not gay doesn’t mean I don’t find “faggot” offensive, and just because someone is gay and doesn’t find it offensive doesn’t give you a free pass with me. I’m not offended on behalf of anyone else; I myself am offended. People in threads about sexism who accuse other people of “white-knighting” don’t get that, but it’s true. I’m offended by the word “nigger” whether or not a black person is. I’m offended not because I’m “sticking up for black folks”, but because it’s a dehumanizing slur with an awful history. Black folks can take care of themselves. I’m telling you how I feel.

  15. Malfious says:

    I want to apologise for posting this, I posed before thinking. Haven’t checked this post for a few hours.

    I meant it as a reply to the cursing of the alliance as quoted on the actual post, not the homephobia part, I didnt actually watch the video.

    This probably sounds like a cheap plea to get out of this mess, take it as you will.

    Again, I apologise & regret posting this, I wasn’t thinking at the time

    • misterk says:

      I’m not sure he agrees with you (and way to pick a famous homosexual for your go to quote!)

    • The Hammer says:

      I’ll remember that the next time a Stephen Gately article pops up.

      I’m also pretty sure Mr. Fry would not endorse that particular view being used in this context…

    • coldvvvave says:

      - I’m also pretty sure Mr. Fry would not endorse that particular view being used in this context…

      I have no idea who this guy is, but that just nakes him a hypocrite, right?

    • Shrike says:

      This is a misinterpretation of his point. The point he was making is that you can’t expect someone to stop doing something solely because it offends you. You have to demonstrate that it causes actual harm in the world. Stephen would probably feel that this kind of language does cause real harm in the world.

      If you watch the uncensored video it becomes apparent that this man makes use of many different synonyms for homosexuality, and they are all intended as insults. It would be foolish to think that this language doesn’t cause harm in the world when adopted across an entire sub-culture. I’m not sure what I think of Blizzard using the clip, since they did try to cut the worst of it out, but it certainly wasn’t wise.

    • Malfious says:

      Edited my post, was in bad taste, please read my apology, wasn’t thinking at the time

  16. Valvarexart says:

    And to be honest, I really love RPS, but this article does feel Fox-news-y.

    • Cruyelo says:

      Very much agreed.

      This article is also lacking Blizzard’s answer to the whole controversy. Not pleased with this article.

    • pipman3000 says:

      no fox newsy would be giving him a thumbs up and going out with a few heterosexual lifemates to lynch some queers

      fox news is the fascist one remember

    • Kaira- says:

      RPS asking both sides of the story? Don’t make me laugh.

    • The Hammer says:

      “Very much agreed.

      This article is also lacking Blizzard’s answer to the whole controversy. Not pleased with this article.”

      Blizzard haven’t give an answer beyond “Sorry if you were offended by the joke.”

      It’s not clear what part of the “joke” they’re saying sorry for.

    • Cruyelo says:

      So if their apology isn’t thorough enough it’s not worth being reported? They apologized, are we supposed to ask them to try again with a different apology?
      And they DID specify that they were talking about the whole Corpsegrinder bit.

    • Woden says:

      Kaira- “RPS asking both sides of the story? Don’t make me laugh.”

      You seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding about what journalism is, and what it isn’t. RPS does not purport to be engaging in journalism, so they are under no obligation to adhere to journalistic standards such as getting both sides of a story. They write opinions, which we come here to read with the understanding that they are opinions.

      Fox News, on the other hand, DOES purport to be engaging in journalism, which is why people who know that there used to be such a thing as “journalistic standards” mutter bitterly about Fox News’ total lack of same.

      So, let’s review! Opinion presented as opinion: fine and dandy! Opinion presented as fact (especially when accompanied by fervent assurances that The Real True Truth is involved): not cool at all, and kind of a huge problem actually!

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      so they are under no obligation to adhere to journalistic standards such as getting both sides of a story.

      There are no “sides” here. There are a bunch of facts. (Mindlessly transcribing statements from “both sides” of a given issue is one of the worst afflictions of modern journalism. That’s pure unfiltered noise with no concern for the truth, laziness masquerading as objectivity.)

      As far as I can tell, everything written here is accurate. There’s no dispute. There are some unanswered questions (who at Blizzard decided to show the clip, and why?), but that’s really another story. This is perfectly acceptable journalism. You’re under no ethical obligation to speak with everyone involved or repeat what they say, not when the facts are clear.

    • Joof says:

      “no fox newsy would be giving him a thumbs up and going out with a few heterosexual lifemates to lynch some queers

      fox news is the fascist one remember”

      Fascist: derived from the Latin word fascis.

      fascis (genitive fascis); m 1. A fagot, fascine; bundle,
      Descendants: English: fascism, faggot

      I don’t know where to go from here, but I’m sure there’s a joke somewhere.

    • alundra says:

      @TillEulenspiegel
      “This is perfectly acceptable journalism.”

      It’s only acceptable because it’s trying to be politically correct, if you take that out all that is left is a sad and biased article full of personal opinions.

      Journalism, it ain’t.

  17. Premium User Badge

    Okami says:

    Since it would be to much work to deal with each and every annoyed comment written by each and every entitled, white male (there are going to be dozens if not hundreds of them here in no time, this beeing the internet) along the lines of “get over it”, “there are worse things”, “this isn’t real homophobia”, “this isn’t real sexism” I’ll just post this link and leave it at that:

    http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

    EDIT: Boy, the block button really comes in handy today.

    • Premium User Badge

      Lakshmi says:

      I posted that earlier. People didn’t seem to think it counted….

    • Sirbolt says:

      Is the “white” bit really that important? Are white people more homophobic in some way?

    • Premium User Badge

      Lakshmi says:

      the white bit is important because in general, white people have not met the same level of prejudice as non-whites, or in this instance, the GLBT community.

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      Is the “white” bit really that important? Are white people more homophobic in some way?

      I love this shit.

      http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#innocent

    • JackShandy says:

      This calls for a survey.

    • Sirbolt says:

      @TillEulenspiegel

      I didn’t find any of that related to the point i was trying to make, but do carry on if it amuses you so.

    • Premium User Badge

      Lakshmi says:

      @Sirbolt

      And what I said?

    • Sirbolt says:

      @Lakshmi I understand the point that Okami was trying to make, i just think that fighting what people find to be prejudicial words with more prejudicial words kind of takes the edge off the argument.

  18. Thoric says:

    Now, i’m not a fan of Blizzard’s work since they became Activision-Blizzard, but this just… doesn’t rustle my jimmies. The butt of the joke is that the Cannibal Corpse frontman ís a WoW and Horde fanatic, and since he’s the vocalist of a death metal band he expresses that through a long stream of insults and accusations of homosexuality.

    It’s a lame joke, but it’s just that really. It’s not a serious anti-gay or hate message. I play Alliance and i don’t now live in mortal fear of Corpsegrinder finding me and bashing my skull in (partly because i play a dwarf and he seems to be ok with them).

    Also, it’s hilarous that the whole point is to get rid of segregation, and yet there is a publication called “GayGamer”. And you know something called “StraightGamer” would have them frothing at the mouth.

    • Premium User Badge

      Okami says:

      Every gaming website is “Straight Gamer”

    • MiniMatt says:

      And he’s free to do that. But for Blizz to promote, not necessarily the language, but promote it in a “hey look at the kind of people we got who play our game – they’re cool!” strikes at the very least of braindead PR.

      I only have imaginary kids for the sake of this argument so my armchair feigned offense is admittedly pretty weak – but I don’t want my (imaginary) kids playing WoW with the sort of person who uses “cocksucking faggot” as punctuation.

    • marlin says:

      @MiniMatt;

      I DO have children, and while as an adult I have no particular problems with adults swearing in conversation with each other, I would have a massive problem with them being exposed to this sort of language in a game.
      But, hey, maybe that’s just me…

  19. Pamplemousse says:

    You can tell this is a Walker story without even reading it.

  20. MiniMatt says:

    I’m white, middle class, heterosexual male. As such I’m substantially unqualified to comment on whether something is particularly offensive to most groups.

    The language in combination with it’s vitriol is something which exists on the internet. To promote it however, to show it on a big screen and say “hey, look at our players, how cool they are!” – well in short that means I don’t want my (imaginary) kids playing that game; in the same way I don’t particularly want my (still imaginary) kids playing battlefield (partly because of game content, partly because “cocksucking faggot” is not so much an insult but punctuation on shooters).

  21. Rond says:

    How is calling random people ‘faggots’ homophobic? Also,

    Why show the clip? Why invite a band on stage with such an attitude?

    Why not? Are you phobic of that? Would you rather ban darker humour worldwide? If you’re not into that sort of thing it isn’t necessarily wrong. They’re not performing at a pride parade, for crying out loud.

  22. Premium User Badge

    Gundato says:

    Wow…

    Look, I am not going to bother saying “Guys, South Park is not a good metric for what is appropriate” (it’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia on the other hand :p) but I am just going to take the easy route.

    You think those words no longer have anything to do with hatespeech toward homosexuals: Go to a gay pride rally (or just a gay bar) and start screaming that at the top of your lungs. I mean, if the word has lost all of its hatespeech origins then you should feel perfectly comfortable doing that, right?

    That being said, the reactions in this comments thread probably mean Blizzard accomplished their goals. Is it going to make people think gaming is at all mature? Nope. But clearly, Blizzard knows how to cater to their demographic.

    • warcode says:

      I would say this is nothing more than an enthusiastic world of warcraft player expressing himself using the language he is familiar with. He is putting no actual thought into the words and is not specifically targeting anyone. Words without intent and meaning, without context, is nothing.

      To put it simply he is flailing a hammer around, but he isn’t actually trying to hit someone with it on purpose.

    • Premium User Badge

      Gundato says:

      Do you have any racist parents/grandparents? It is quite easy to say “Oh, they were raised in a different era” or “She is so senile that she doesn’t understand that it is inappropriate to say that ‘all the jews stole her cookies'” but that still doesn’t make it appropriate.

      If you want to exonerate the “band”, whatever. They seem like idiots. But BLIZZARD should have known better.

    • andrewdoull says:

      I love this crazy ‘words without intent’ argument. Pray tell me, how do you mystically divine someone’s intent without perhaps determining it from the words they use?

    • FCA says:

      To put it simply he is flailing a hammer around, but he isn’t actually trying to hit someone with it on purpose.
      But if he hits someone, shouldn’t you call him out for flailing a hammer around at all?
      It might make the offense slightly less worse, but it still is an offense.

      As for all the “don’t be such a whiner, get over it/it’s a general slur nowadays” crowd:
      Gay people were being put to death for being gay not too long ago (in fact, this is happening in some places right now), even in what we call “civilized” countries. Even now, teenagers (or adults) are being mobbed, to the point of contemplating/commiting suicide, for being perceived as gay, faggot or being too feminine/masculine (depending on sex). One common element is calling them names like “faggot” or “gay” all the time.

      How do you think it feels if someone uses a slur, originally specific to them, which they were abused by a lot, as a slur against a wider group of people?
      “No it’s not offensive anymore, I just use the word faggot/gay as a general way of identifying people I hate” doesn’t really sound good for people who identify themselves as gay, right?

    • Premium User Badge

      Gundato says:

      In this context, at least, the argument is usually “Haven’t you seen a couple of 10-13 year old boys calling everything ‘gay’? They don’t understand what they are saying”.

      And that may actually be true, for very young children. They could just have really horrible influences (like this garbage from Blizzcon :p).

      But when you are a grown adult, you should know better. I don’t think it is even possible to reach adulthood without knowing that those terms, at least originally, were hatespeech against homosexuals.

  23. Dawngreeter says:

    I love you and your periodic “this shit ain’t cool” posts, John, but I do believe you’re off base here. I won’t go into why Blizzard played this, it’s certainly strange. But it isn’t homophobic. It’s retarded, of the needlessly loud and unintentionally comical variety. Just like Cannibal Corpse.

    Any attempts to comment on this as an affront to decency, morality, social more and so forth are exactly the same as those funny United Statesian christian folk who picket Marylin Manson concerts. Aside the absurdity of it all, you’re confusing an act with reality. None of these people really mean what they’re saying or singing, they are just putting on a show. Same as wrestlers, and you don’t go booing The Undertaker for insulting Rowdy Ruddy Piper (or whoever’s still doing that sort of thing these days). And you certainly wouldn’t think THE CANYON OF DEATH roller coaster ride invites children to commit suicide on it.

    This is amusing to teenagers because it depicts unacceptable behavior. Nothing more.

    • ThinkAndGrowWitcher says:

      +1 (and a gold star) for the comment above (Dawngreeter)…

      A context has been applied here that never seemed to really exist in the first place. And if it was, it’s being unnecessarily amplified to ‘shock horror!’ proportions.

      What say we leave the incorrect politically-correct, scare-mongered sound-bites to the world’s main news providers and skip gayly along to more games coverage?

    • JackShandy says:

      That’s a totally disingenuous comparison. Here’s a similie: It’s like saying “They’re only yelling sexist comments because the system is against sexism! Fuck the system!”

    • Premium User Badge

      lasikbear says:

      Not sure throwing in “it’s retarded” is a good way to back up any sort of argument about how is acceptable to use hate speech in a jovial manner, but of course, you were just saying that ironically to impress teenagers?

    • Dawngreeter says:

      I’d answer, but I honestly don’t have the time. Not, like, dude, I’ve no time for the likes of you. But, like, dude, I gotta run somewhere where I don’t have a computer handy.

      So instead of answering, I’ll invite you all to watch a Lisa Lampinelli or Sarah Silverman standup. Or any of the Comedy Central roasts.

    • Apples says:

      Frankly the idea of watching Sarah Silverman is more offensive to me than half of the things in this comment thread. She’s a comedy void.

    • Premium User Badge

      Keirley says:

      Except that it’s not, is it Dawngreeter? As far as I’m aware John isn’t arguing that this person shouldn’t have the right to say the awful things he said. The article is questioning why Blizzard thought it was a good idea to associate themselves with someone like that, and why they thought it was at all appropriate to show him saying those kinds of things. One can make any argument one likes about how people shouldn’t get offended by such things, or how we shouldn’t care if someone gets offended, and though I disagree it would certainly be a legitimate position to take, but I would find it very hard to argue that the inclusion of this kind of thing in an event put on by a big player in the industry DOESN’T point to something extremely problematic about the culture of videogames.

    • Dawngreeter says:

      I won’t argue in the slightest that Blizzard showing this off is anything but extremely strange. I can’t fathom what on earth possessed them to do this. And it’s not the good kind of strange, it’s “you people are fucking morons” kind of strange.

      But John, whom I greatly respect for other articles of this kind and with which I always agreed, explicitly points to the statement about Alliance needing to kill themselves as something horrible. It isn’t. It is exactly on the same level as all the songs of his kindergore band. Which is, in turn, on the same level as smack talk in almost any MMO or competitive PvP game. And the man is not seriously suggesting people should kill themselves. He is trying to be all aggro metal grim evil something. And it is mostly pathetic and wholly laughable, as John correctly pointed out.

      Bonus pathetic points for wearing his band’s shirt. What kind of a loser asshole does that?

  24. TJ says:

    Agreed, this is not a homophobic rant; it’s just a (vaguely amusing if you squint and are not of a sensitive disposition) rant.

  25. Sirbolt says:

    Haha, for fucks sake, context people, context. Corpsegrinder from Cannibal Corpse, the band with such hits as “I cum blood” “Necropedophile” and “Fucked with a knife” rants about Alliance players calling them variants of “u r gay” and it’s the “u r gay”-part and not the “Fucked with a knife”-bit that’s upsetting? I see no real malice towards gay people here.

  26. catmorbid says:

    Some people could practice their sense of humor a bit instead of being whiny little bitches too sensitive about their sexuality. Being politically correct is what ruins everything – fun mostly. Being politically correct is an invention made by people inherently insecure. Get over it. Live a little – laugh a little.

    • Muzman says:

      It’s not actually. The political correctness boogieman was created in Bush snr.’s government to create a new enemy for Western conservatism to fight after the collapse of communism.

    • John Walker says:

      I’m guessing you’re… a gay Caribbean midget, right? I’m right, right?

    • rayne117 says:

      “You have to have experienced the HORRORS of being called a faggot while you’re beaten to really know what it’s bad to say it.”

      No. No I don’t.

      And you know why?

      Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me).

      Beating a person is wrong (whether they are gay or not), calling them a faggot isn’t.

    • Beva says:

      “Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me).

      Beating a person is wrong (whether they are gay or not), calling them a faggot isn’t.”

      That’s only because you are a pedophile.

      Obviously, most of your kind aren’t as word resistant as you are, and that is why your parents only had actual legal sex once, to create you and make you better (rest of the time they just kept on doing the old sex-with-kids-family-tradition). This is also why you are so good at pedophilia and know exactly how and when to strike and it is also why your basement is littered with baby corpses and posters of young Corey Haim.

      Power to you man.

  27. Muzman says:

    The thing is, it’s Cannibal Corpse. On the spectrum between serious music and self parody they are only slightly to the left of Gwar, not that many metalheads realise it. Their knuckleheadedness is part of the schtick. Not really worth worrying about.

    • Dozer says:

      So… why did Blizzard get them to perform at the expo? It’s like they gave each attendee a little doggy bag filled with little doggy shit.

    • Muzman says:

      It’s the lounge room principle. Quite a lot of unsavory stuff is perfectly acceptable when you are with your pals at home or watching a standup comic or something. Even flagrantly offensive and revolting stuff is fine with everyone in that setting. Throw it out in public it becomes a different matter. That’s where Blizzard were perhaps unwise. But these guys aren’t really out to hurt anyone or spread the ills that these terms might spring from. They’re just being expressively dense.

  28. Toshley says:

    When did RPS and it’s community become so spineless?

    I feel I should say, I’m gay, and I don’t find the word faggot offensive in the slightest, nor do my gay friends find it offensive. We use the word all the time, our straight friends use it all the time, and we don’t give a shit, it’s a goddamn word, it doesn’t mean shit.

    Jesus Christ.

    • Apples says:

      This is an absolutely amazing thing to say. Everybody go home, words no longer have any meaning, there is no point hearing or reading them because they will just be a strange mishmash of sounds and shapes. Of course words mean things, you dolt, including “faggot”.

    • actionthom says:

      Well I guess you and your anecdotal experience trump actually looking into it then

    • JackShandy says:

      Ok, everybody, go back to your homes and businesses! We now know the LGBT Community’s stance on the issue, this is all totally fine!

  29. Valyr says:

    Talk about a fucking storm in a teacup.
    As someone who has supported the LGBT campaign for equality in the past this whole debacle pisses me off.

    No, not what Blizzard did; but the constant whining from a minority of people in the LGBT community about things like this; which only does their cause more harm than good because it just serves to piss other people off who are sick of listening to it.

    Yes, Corpsegrinder’s interview clip where he rants and raves about the Alliance was a silly inclusion in a pseudo-family-friendly show but as usual people are blowing things way out of proportion and getting their knickers in a twist over something that really isn’t THAT important.

    I don’t know what Corpsegrinder’s sexual orientation is, nor do I care, but I very much doubt that his supposed homophobic slurs were actually intended to be anti-homosexual. As far as I could tell they just represented a weird fervor for the Horde in WoW expressed as a hatred of the ‘wussy’ Alliance; and in fact that’s what I took the supposedly homophobic slurs to mean.

    Yes, it’s unfortunate that in the modern world many people use negative terms associated with homosexuality to describe something as being weak and that’s something that should be changed over time, no doubt; but to get this worked up over the ranting of a man who makes a living screaming obscenities and tongue-in-cheek bad taste into a microphone is just sad and missing the point.
    It shows nothing more than a lack of imagination or creativity in his choice of swear words, at worst; not an anti-homosexual agenda.
    8 capped threads in the WoW forums demanding apologies and reparations from Blizzard. Sad.

    And then there’s the ridiculous question of “Why aren’t there any LGBT characters in WoW?”
    Why the hell should there be? Why does there need to be? Who’s to say there aren’t already?

    The sexuality of characters in a setting like WoW is not at all relevant to 99% of what goes on in the game, in the story or in the character backgrounds. Half the characters in the story could be gay and we might never know because it doesn’t MATTER, so why the hell do people feel that the LGBT community needs to be ‘represented’ in the game?
    If this same vocal minority in the LGBT community was less focused on the ‘us vs them’ approach then their campaign might reach its goals of equality a lot sooner by not making mountains out of molehills and getting on other people’s nerves all the time.

    All this alongside the constant whining from over-sensitive WoW players about Blizzard’s Horde Favouritism.
    Seriously? They actually care that Blizzard appears to favour the Horde in their cheesy event battlecries and songs?
    As a WoW player I play both factions (since that is very possible these days, moreso than ever before) and enjoy both. I don’t see why anyone should get so worked up about which faction Blizzard likes to shout about at events.

    It makes sense that when Blizzard pushes the “For the Horde!” stuff, some players are bound to go the opposite way and cling to their Alliance loyalty (as pointless as such loyalty is), but to actually bitch and complain about it as much as people have been doing is really, really pathetic.

    I’ve been playing WoW for years while living a productive, successful life outside of the game so it irks me mildly when people make generalised statements about WoW players needing to ‘get a life’, but I don’t go making a big deal out of it because it really doesn’t matter that much.
    If anything, the ones who need to get a life are the ones spending their time looking for reasons to complain and act hurt/offended by some crappy jokes made in bad taste.

    • misterk says:

      With regards to Wow, I’m a little curious? What other battles should the LGBT community be fighting? I mean, other than homophobic abuse and language, and lack of representation… what else would they be talking about there? Or is the status quo always perfect?

    • JackShandy says:

      I really am totally blown away by this. The thing you chose to single out as horrible is people complaining about the use of the word “faggot”? That is the crime here? The fact that a guy has decided to stand up on his news blog and say “I disapprove of this man using a gay slur” has ruined your day?

      There was an assembly when I was in high school where some brave kid decided to stand up and say “It is not ok to use homophobic language.” So, you would have booed, I guess?

  30. John Walker says:

    While I realised posting this story would dredge such comments, I really do expect better from people who enjoy RPS than, “I as a straight male don’t find it offensive, so why should someone else?”

    And btw, anyone who sneeringly uses the phrase “politically correct” to justify their prejudices is a cock. Hope that helps.

    • warcode says:

      I like “context” and “true equality comes from treating everyone equally”. But saying words are inherently bad makes you a faggot. (Analyze away)

    • Berzee says:

      edited: if I try to start an actual conversation on such a busy thread, I won’t get any work done all day. whatever I’d have said is Forum material, not WordPress Comments material. Have a good blog :)

    • Premium User Badge

      AndrewC says:

      True equality comes from recognising that our current culture is incredibly unequal and putting serious work into changing the underlying social landscape

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      The sheer volume of depressing comments on this article seems quite a bit higher than usual. I’ve wound up with more blocked than not. It’s a sad thing for RPS.

    • Stamford says:

      And I expect better from RPS’s writers than this sensationalist crap.

    • Apples says:

      To be perfectly honest, I have never found RPS commenters to be very progressive, and this whole thread is par for the course. Every time you (or any writer or commenter) says anything about gender or sexual politics, the straight white middle-class males come out in hordes to angrily deny the fact that anyone could ever be offended by anything ever.

      Hint to those commenters: the reason you find little offense in any media, and may even like being offended by media, is because those offensive things remain safely away from your real life. You will never have to face them when you’re not pretending to be a superhero or a wizard. Other people do, and don’t enjoy prejudice following them into their escapism.

    • Premium User Badge

      Lakshmi says:

      I’m glad RPS post these kinds of stories, even if it does invite some people to post such utter bollocks in the comments.

    • StingingVelvet says:

      What warcode said.

    • MiniMatt says:

      Playing devil’s advocate a little here for the sake of argument; but some arguments have been made which, whilst I strongly disagree with them, have a grain of merit too often wrapped around crass diatribe and more than a little denial. Namely the argument that “faggot” has lost it’s meaning. Now I really can’t make a case for that because it’s so far from my hardwired position that it reviles me, but I can see that there exists the potential that words change meaning over time.

      To a degree I never will be offended by these things precisely because I am a white straight male – I will never quite “get” it, I will never quite know how it feels to be called an n-word, a p-word, or an f-word because I’m white and straight. So I can’t really be offended by them or project offense as a result of them. I do however, find them personally, as a white straight male, deeply deeply offensive words whether used as a direct attack or just shat out as so much verbal diarrhea to punctuate a sentence.

      As such I find that promotion of such attitudes, language and general (and how middle class does this sound) lack of manners deeply inappropriate in promoting a game which Blizz seems to promote to a wide inclusive audience of differing age, race, sex and sexuality.

      If my (still imaginary) red headed stepchild were to utter such arse gravy I would undoubtedly beat them like a red headed stepchild (it’s the only way to learn ‘em). Side note, if only I were TJ McCormack, I could speak with complete authority on all matters.

    • Hentzau says:

      Lots of people saying OMG RPS STOP WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS SENSATIONALIST CRAP so I’ll just say this: RPS, the day you *stop* writing this kind of article is the day I stop reading your site. Otherwise, keep up the good work.

    • GhundiPI says:

      Can only agree with John. Reading through these comments is extremely saddening. While I didn’t expect the RPS community to be the ‘last, best hope’ of the online homo sapiens, it is quite a shock to see such a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the feelings and issues of a fellow human being.

      For anyone who has been on the receiving end of any kind of discrimination, it is extremely painful to see such flippant use of words which for them have a derogatory meaning. To see Blizzard endorse (which is the only way to describe why Blizzard allowed this person to spew such vitriol) this during an event with such a large audience, can only be called perplexing.

      And this has nothing to do with John being ‘politicaly correct’. Anyone taking that up as a means to defend their opinion is not only a cock, but (I suspect) also trying to cover their own bigoted use of language.

    • Berzee says:

      “it is quite a shock to see such a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the feelings and issues of a fellow human being”

      This applies to how we treat the metal band man, too, right?

    • Premium User Badge

      Bluerps says:

      I think, a considerable part of the gaming community still has many problems with homosexuality. I remember the ridiculous discussions about the gay relationships in Dragon Age, and that was not so long ago…

    • Rii says:

      In my experience straightfaced use of the term ‘political correctness’ is a fairly reliable indicator that the person in question is a knob.

    • GhundiPI says:

      “This applies to how we treat the metal band man, too, right?”

      That would be equivalent to sympathizing with someone wearing a white robe, matching mask and pointy hat.

    • Berzee says:

      @GhundPl
      Ok, just wanted to make sure there were SOME groups that we’re allowed to show complete disregard and lack of understanding for.

    • Senethro says:

      This looks like the only sensible part of the comments, so imma leave my post here.
      I’m surprised and disappointed by all these less than progressive replies, thanks for proving these newsposts are necessary John, keep it up.

    • GhundiPI says:

      “Ok, just wanted to make sure there were SOME groups that we’re allowed to show complete disregard and lack of understanding for.”

      I can only guess I touched a nerve somewhere with my OP, otherwise I’m unable to understand your persistence in being so obtuse to the meaning of said OP.

      On the other hand it is possible that you’re one of those rare type of human who takes everything as literally as possible. In which case I hope you’re not playing WoW as a member of the Horde.

    • str4 says:

      This makes me sad. Why run this sensationalist crap and push your ideals all over everyone else? Then you insult your readers who disagree with you?

      I guess the only real way to speak my dissatisfaction is to stop coming here. I realize though that you really only want readers who think the exact same things as you, so you won’t miss me.

    • hungrytales says:

      Pfff, I’d jolly better be a cock than politically correct. What homophobic is anyway? It’s only a label to pin on people whose views you don’t particularly like, to get them in line, to limit their freedom, their thought and their speech.

      For me this post was a ‘so RPS is politically correct, what a shame’ revelation. There’s nothing perfect in this world, it does indeed seem.

      [so f…. sad now]

    • Berzee says:

      @GhundPl

      No, I just think it’s a bit sad how the article and many of the “progressive” comments are doing little more than showering the hateful band member with hate. For all the talk of understanding human beings and their issues…or are you really not seeing the failure to apply the philosophy across the board, here?

      In other words — if people disagree with the metal band man, I wish they would do it in as loving and considerate (which is not to see weak or wavering) a manner as they would demand from him. =) Anything less is simple bigotry (bigotry meaning, not that you disagree with someone, but that you treat them as worth less than other human beings).

    • JackShandy says:

      Berzee, it’s ok to be homophobophobic. Anyway, show me the worst thing someone’s said about this guy here – His band is shitty? He’s badly groomed and dressed? I haven’t seen any insults that would provoke your reaction.

    • Benga says:

      @berzee the only ‘hate’ being shown towards the singer is at his choice of lyrics and his apparent prejudice . It would only be equatable if we were showing hatred to all the Metal singers in his genre of music and how they were not positive members of our society.

    • GhundiPI says:

      @Berzee:

      Sorry, but I cannot agree with you there. While I didn’t pass any judgement on this ‘metal band man’, I also see no reason for others to be all kinds of cute and cuddly with someone who is able to spew such vitriol (and I’m not only talking about the specific content discussed in this topic). He reaps what he sows…

      As for my ‘talk of understanding human beings and their issues’, that is directed to those who have been on the receiving end of this kind of discrimination. Unfortunately there is no way for someone who hasn’t experienced this to be able to fully understand the impact it has and how behaviour like that from the ‘metal band man’ will only contribute to the current worsening trend seen almost everywhere.

      Luckily though there are people, like John, who are able to see when a line has been crossed and show their disgust with much needed articles like this one.

    • theleif says:

      @John Walker

      Well, the same happens every time. The Hey Baby article springs to mind. It seems like normally intelligent and articulate persons transforms into Yngwie Malmsteen and unleashes his fucking fury whenever sexism or homophobia is mentioned as bad.

      And while picturing that transformation in my head is pretty funny, reading the comments makes me sadfaced.

    • Premium User Badge

      unitled says:

      I’ll repeat the comment many other people have said, that when RPS stops making a stand against knuckledragging macho, sexist, homophobic behaviour in the gaming community, I’ll leave their site and never return. Please keep it up, John (and the rest of the RPS staff), I can’t bear the thought of sites like Destructoid winning!

      Anyone who has commented saying they’re going to stop visiting RPS because they read stuff like this, go, please. I can honestly say the rest of us will not miss you.

    • TheSaddestSort says:

      Thank you RPS, for better refining my “block user” list.

    • Dozer says:

      +1 to the sentiment that these articles are the gold of RPS. I read RPS for the articles like this. I’d much rather read commentary on the state of the gaming world than “A games company released a game today” all the time.

      (disclaimer: my PC is older than your mum. I’m not really a PC gamer anymore. Why play games when you can spend all evening trying to get uDig to visualise spatial data from a PostgreSQL database? Then you could have SQL-generated maps of stuff! ah, the power and potential.)

    • slM_agnvox says:

      Words DO have meaning and the words used here are violent, hurtful and discriminatory. The context is irrelevant to that fact.

      Any a subject can so rapidly generate so much passion, this much division, is a subject that needs to be explored rigorously and often. A subject that triggers this much knee jerk reaction-ism can only be understood through repeated encounter and examination.

      Do keep this up, John, RPS, et al.

    • FunkyBadger3 says:

      Excellent article, thanks for posting it, JW.

      And thanks for providing the block button.

    • lumenadducere says:

      I wanted to join in and say that I too enjoy these articles, and they’re one of the reasons I come to RPS. I really value these more than the “developer X is releasing game Y at Z date” articles, because really that’s information we can get at any other gaming site. It’s the analysis, both of the games themselves and the culture around them, that makes RPS unique and enjoyable, and it would be a damn shame if that were lost.

      Keep up the good work.

    • MultiVaC says:

      Agreed, please don’t ever give up on posting articles like this, no matter how many troglodytes end up coming out of the woodwork because of it. One of the reasons I like the site is how much of much of an antithesis it is to the obnoxious attitudes that are all over most gaming sites, so thank you John and the rest of RPS, and keep it up.

    • Capon says:

      Its because of articles like this one that I maintain my subscription with RPS. My hard earned moolah better be used to root up more bigots and asshats.

  31. Ian says:

    I’m not sure the use of the word alone (as much as it’s insentive and disrespectful and stupid) is the same as being homophobic, is it?

    If he’d use the word ‘bitch’* instead of ‘faggot’, say, would we get an article entitled “BlizzCon’s Peculiar Misogynistic Moment”? I’m not sure if that example works enough to clarify my point, or whether that point is valid in the first place but that was my thought on reading this.

    * I’m NOT saying bitch is directly equivalent to faggot or as offensive, it’s just the best example I could thing of.

    Regardless, based on what others have said about that guy/the band in here (name’s of their songs, etc.) it sounds like getting him in was at best a bizarre mis-step in the first place.

    • Benga says:

      “If he’d use the word ‘bitch’* instead of ‘faggot’, say, would we get an article entitled “BlizzCon’s Peculiar Misogynistic Moment”?”

      No. But that says more about our society and how ingrained sexism is then it does about whether this person was homophobic/misogynistic.

    • JackShandy says:

      What? Yes we would. We’ve got articles on the overuse of Bitch in Arkham Asylum right now. We probably would have gotten an article on it if all he did was swear at the audience.

  32. Twitchity says:

    In any case, you’d think Blizz — having gone through one PR debacle regarding their treatment of gay players — would have been a bit more sensitive to the optics of this one.

    Then again, this is *Blizzard*. You know, the guys who gave us Tosh and the Rastafarian witch-doctor trolls. So I don’t know why I’d expect otherwise.

  33. 43 says:

    I think the most shocking part of that video was how bad the song was. I know he is a key Blizzard employee, but someone needs to break it to him that his band is awful.

  34. andrewdoull says:

    I just attended an event where a 52 year old lesbian was applauded by the entire audience for playing WoW.

    This clip is the polar opposite of that.

  35. Berzee says:

    I hate that words ending in “phobic” have come into popular usage for things that are not related to fear. It’s stupid. It smacks of trying to discredit someone by making fun of their being afraid. “You know why they oppose us? ‘Cuz they’re afraaaaaiiiid! Ha!”

    Xenophobic…Homophobic…whatever other kinds of phobic you like. Save them for when it’s actually about fear (i.e. Xenophobic people are those who actually fear foreigners, either individually or as an influx of immigration. People who just really don’t like non-local people aren’t Xenophobic, they’re just mean to outsiders. Wulf in particular should pay attention here ;) because crying Phobia is not only taking a cheap shot, it’s taking a cheap shot in the wrong direction. Don’t make fun of someone for being scared if you really think you should be chastising them for being mean or wilfully ignorant.)

    Some people will of course say I am being picky about words and in the current vernacular Homophobic has been expanded to include hatefulness. But I won’t excuse sloppy language or implicit suggestions that hate must of necessity arise from fear. =) And if you say, “Language evolves so don’t be offended…” — well, you’ll have a lot of people to argue that with over OTHER words in this particular thread, yeah? =)

    • Ian says:

      “Pronunciation:/ˈfəʊbɪə/
      noun

      an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something:she suffered from a phobia about birds”

      From Oxford dictionary, who seem a good enough source.

      And they have aversion as “a strong dislike or disinclination”.

      EDIT: Fair’s fair, the Collins dictionary does not mention dislike/aversion. But the Oxford one’s not the first definition I’ve encountered that includes (irrational) dislike as part of phobia.

    • Berzee says:

      I still think in most minds it’s intended to stir a suggestion of fearfulness. (Stirring a suggestion of irrationality is SO much better and fairer, anyhow).

    • Premium User Badge

      Llewyn says:

      @Ian: Even better, the OED has a specific entry for -phobia when used to make compound nouns, which also refers to aversion as well as fear. And since the OED gives excellent citations for word origins we can see an example from 1843 of this usage. I have to wonder just how old someone would have to be to still object to this linguistic development.

  36. Curvespace says:

    Was this event sponsored by Grainger Games?

  37. Berzee says:

    Also, goodness me, but that does sound like a bizarre and ill-advised BlizzCon. I didn’t watch the video, I’m not sure I could keep my chipper veneer if I did. =P

  38. jstar says:

    There is literally nothing worse than this sort of arm chair righteous indignation on someone elses behalf. I’m pretty sure all the gay guys I know can look after themselves, they certainly don’t need Jeremy Kyle Walker in their corner.

    It’s just some stupid metal dude being a gimp. The fact that he uses the word faggot is the least of his problems. I didn’t take anything he said seriously because he’s a fat long haired twat in a heavy metal band. To suggest a gay man would suddenly sit up and take notice of the prick is more offensive than the language he used in the first place.

    This article is sensationalist bull shit. What a shame.

    • John Walker says:

      Literally nothing.

    • JackShandy says:

      Ahahaha, yes.

      “I’m totally for LGBT rights, but what I get REALLY steamed about is straight people complaining when someone says a gay slur! They just won’t stop!”

    • Pathetic Phallacy says:

      I would rather see a baby in an orphanage with physical disability being killed in a fire that is fueled by dead puppies and kittens than see a heterosexual point out homophobic bullshit endorsed by a company.

      Nothing is worse.

      In all seriousness though, it seems like gay teens are having a tough time ‘standing up for themselves’. But fuck them, I guess. Nobody wants to be a bleeding-heart, am I right? I’m sure no gay teens play WoW. I’m sure they don’t need to see the people that kick the shit out of them at school being promoted by a company that makes the games they really enjoy.

    • Ian says:

      Next time I see somebody misuse the word literally I’m literally going to rip their leg off and shove it up their backside.

    • danimalkingdom says:

      @jstar You’ve missed the point. Gays can take care of themselves. Sure. No-one’s about to take what a dude with gross hair, wearing a t-shirt of his own band, seriously.

      Blizzard saw fit to release this footage. That’s the issue. It’s inexplicable why they would, as it does them absolutely no good.

  39. akeso says:

    For the record, I find it more offensive that people care about the misogyny in Arkham City but are completely unfazed by the horrible and flat out offensive depiction of the mentally ill in both this game and the previous game.
    Especially the previous game.
    Where was the outcry then?

    Oh yeah, people just brushed that off as “part of the batman universe.”
    Hypocrites.

    • jstar says:

      Oh my god shut up. What is this horrible world you want to live in where no one can be offended? I want to be offended. I hope the things that offend me stay around forever. No one has the right not to be offended and if they did the world would be a fucking terrible place and I would kill myself.

    • akeso says:

      Your logic is entirely circular-

      People have the right to make things that offend you.
      I like things that offend me.
      Stop talking about being offended.

      It seems to me that you’re more arguing that you liked it, you didn’t see a problem, and therefore other people shouldn’t be offended.
      You’re quick to defend the material, but just as quick to also dismiss the material of those who found it offensive and in poor taste.
      You don’t see the logical flaw there?

    • bwion says:

      @jstar So it’s perfectly fine for you to be offended by what people say, but only you? Just so we’re clear?

    • Benga says:

      http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#oppression

      This thread is turning into real life reference material for the derailing for dummies site! Its amazing ^^

    • akeso says:

      Sorry, didn’t know I needed to point out exactly WHAT in the article I wanted to reply to to be still on topic.

      “You need not look far in any direction to see examples of sexism (the PC has yet to be blessed with Arkham City’s delightful attitude toward female characters), misogyny, racism, and of course homophobia”

      It may not be about blizzcon, but the writer brings it up and is topical.

      Every time this issue is brought up btw, the first 2 responses are normally:
      “No one cares and I liked it”
      or
      “This isn’t a conversation about that.”

      Guess being snarky doesn’t make you clever after all :D

    • akeso says:

      It seems entirely on topic to point out in a discussion how offended we all are about someone using homophobic slurs in public, how okay we are at the same time with the ignorant, shallow, and often downright hurtful depictions we portray and justify of some of the most vulnerable individuals in our society.
      How we feel righteous indignation at the simple thought of negativity based on sex, creed, rage, or gender but defend the same mentality if based on a mental issue. Why? Because we are told one is okay and one is not. We’re socialized to see a problem some places and not in others.

      Don’t get on the moral high horse gaming industry when you are perfectly willing to perpetuate and justify negative and medieval stereotypes about one group yet get outraged when the same is done to another group you’re told it is wrong to do that to. It’s hypocritical and convenient ethics right there.

  40. Sigvatr says:

    I’m sorry but I have a great deal of respect for Cannibal Corpse, and I really am not going to take your sob story this time.

    I hosted the Death Metal Show on 4ZZZ 102.1 FM here in Brisbane for over a year and I will admit that there is a great deal of homophobia and naughty words in the metal community. Complaining about it is going to achieve nothing, however. I’ve heard more than one person called a faggot or a nigger and it was all in good fun. In a way, those two excellent words have been taken away from normal users of the English language and only certain people are supposed to say them.

    The type of homophobia you are probably accusing Cannibal Corpse of is the “super serious you are a mean jerk” homophobia. But it’s not. It’s the “faggot is a great word” homophobia, which actually isn’t homophobia at all. Like quite a lot of people during school, you probably were told that you were gay, even though you weren’t. But in the process, you learnt that words like faggot and gay were excellent swear words, even if you didn’t have anything against homosexuals. There is no “phobia” there or implied fear about it. It’s just a case of growing up and thinking that homosexual slurs are hilarious, if not politically correct.

    And metal fans in general are not politically correct. They might come across as racist, homophobic, or whatever, but I’ve never met an intolerant one.

    So basically you are accusing Blizzard of being dumb for inviting over evil metal band Cannibal Corpse? I find it hard to believe that many World of Warcraft players would enjoy their music, but in any case, they are a legendary death metal band. I don’t think you should bother getting angry about anything here. Everything went exactly as it should have, including the political incorrectness (is that a word? I’m inventing it).

    But seriously you guys are gay, and the tears are delicious.

    • JackShandy says:

      Hey, fellow brisbane-ite. Objecting to these words being used is hard, I know. I can totally understand that you’d take the easy route and embrace them, seeing as objecting every time you hear them would probably lead to terrible interviews with people, having your friends think you’re lame, being fired from your radio station, etc. But I’d take issue with the idea that objecting to them wouldn’t change anything. Have you tried?

    • Pathetic Phallacy says:

      So you think that a guy who talks about kicking the shit out of people over a video game is using homophobic slurs in a non-homophobic way? You think a guy who says fuck four or five times in a single sentence has no ill feelings toward homosexuality? You’re silly. I like that.

    • Keep says:

      You and your buddies can call each other faggots til the cows come home.

      And gay friends can call each other faggots as much as they want.

      But when you and your friends call gay people faggots (or black people niggers, or women cunts), that’s where you’re being a shit. You’re using those words to express “I am more powerful than you because you are gay/black/female”.

      If you address a crowd with those words, not knowing who’s in that crowd (and the crowd knowing you don’t know that), that’s equally shitty of you.

      These words are about power and privilege. Do you believe people deserve privilege because of their race, or gender, or sexuality?
      Then don’t use those words that way.

    • Premium User Badge

      lasikbear says:

      Yeah, stop it you bullys, you took all the good swear words away! How is he supposed to swear now? If he can’t use the good swear words there’s no point swearing. Can’t you see who this really hurts? The poor guy, he’s the real victim here.

    • Benga says:

      http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#playfair

      “As a Privileged Person®, it is natural that you would feel excluded and frustrated by the recent spate of Marginalised People “reclaiming” historically negative words to refer to themselves.

      Not only do these Marginalised People™ kick up a great big ole stink by making it “politically incorrect” for Privileged People® to use these words – even going so far as to have some of them defined under ‘hate crime’ legislation! – they take the insult one step further and use them freely amongst themselves!

      This is very perplexing and annoying for Privileged People®, who can only stand on the outside, gazing wistfully in, wishing it were a simpler time when it was totally okay for everyone to call women whores, Mexicans spics, Trans* folk trannies, gay men faggots and people of African descent the n-word.

      After all, who do those Marginalised People™ think they are, taking ownership of language traditionally used to oppress them! That just isn’t playing fair!

      But take heart, because there is a way you can worm around this one – where there’s Privilege®, there’s always a way!

      First of all, you must feign utter cluelessness about the ins & outs of reclaimation and behave as though you were under the impression that in these ‘post race/sex/sexuality/gender/etc times’ that we had all evolved into a new era where ‘words don’t mean anything’ and it’s totally okay for everyone to use offensive slurs and then… well: use them.

      When a Marginalised Person™ calls you out on it, become indignant. Express confusion. Demand an explanation. Say that you just don’t understand – if you people use those words to refer to each other, why can’t I?!

      You see, you’re implying that they’re being hypocritical. That if they are going to use abusive & oppressionist language aongst each other, they simply have to accept that they’re employing a ‘double standard’ by preventing the Privileged® from using them.

      What this enables you to ignore is the reality of the power dynamic involved. Language reclaimation is a means by which Marginalised People™ gain back some power they are traditionally denied by taking control of words used to demean and discriminate against them. When these words come from Privileged People®, there is a long and very serious negative history behind them that cannot be divorced from the words themselves. Thus, when Privileged People® employ these words, they are perpetuating that history and the psychology behind the word. They are exercising oppressive power that have become inherent to those words – a power Marginalised People™ seek to subvert and dismantle when they use them.

      Pretend not to understand this. Just continue to imply hypocrisy and pout that it isn’t fair.

      It also ignores the fact that, from within Marginalised Groups™, discourses around abusive language are actually not simple and there are many divided and varied opinions on the subject. Treating Marginalised People™ like a hive mind is always a great way to further subtly insult them and since the point of this entire debacle is to come out with as many notches on your belt as possible, you want to make sure you slip in as many knocks below their belt as you can manage.”

  41. lokijki says:

    This might have already been posted, but I feel it’s relevant.

    • rayne117 says:

      It doesn’t matter what he says because he is white.

      WHITE PEOPLE CAN’T BE OFFENDED

      DUH

  42. Premium User Badge

    AndrewC says:

    Film Critic Hulk (he’s a film critic, he writes in HULK voice), in responding to the whole ‘sexism in Arkham City’ debacle, wrote a point by point breakdown of every counter-argument made here:

    http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/hulk-vs-arkham-city-round-2-bitches-be-trippin/

    That will stand for my response too.

    Countering the sociopathy of gamers seems to me the major political fight in gaming culture today. Keep at it, Walker!

    • theleif says:

      I stumbled on that thanks to the last saturday papers here.
      It should be obligatory reading for everybody.

    • Muzman says:

      Film Crit Hulk is a legend, but that video in the midst there: Holy Fucking Shit!
      http://youtu.be/Kb5ev2Dp4I0

      Is that show serious or did they just follow the reality show model of lining it with people you want to kill?
      Wwwwwwow. That’s worth a post more than Cannibal Corpse guy.

    • rayne117 says:

      The best part about these offended babies like yourself Andrew, is that you think you’re fighting some good, just Holy War against the evil Users of Free Speech.

    • theleif says:

      I take the fact that these days, it’s mostly racists, homophobes, fundamentalists and misogynists that evokes the right to free speach as a good sign that we have made progress in our society. It wasn’t that long ago that “God hates fags” was the common view.

  43. Berzee says:

    Also, this is about computer games I don’t play and a company I happen not to buy from. Why am I posting except so I don’t feel left out of the comment-riot? <_o

  44. pipman3000 says:

    thank god we have all these straight people letting us know that calling someone a cock sucking faggot who needs to kill themselves isn’t homophobic or offensive.

    what would i do without the majority letting me know what i can and cannot be offended by.

  45. golden_worm says:

    [double post]

  46. Ajh says:

    Honestly the only thing that made me angry about the entire incident was blizzard’s fake and insincere apology using the words “We’re sorry if we offended people.” I found it horribly inappropriate, even as a horde player to have that kind of rant up there on stage when i was watching the concert. I didn’t pay for my virtual ticket for stuff like that.

    The forums are filled with people saying that people like me, my friends, and anyone else who simply would like an apology (It doesn’t have to be long! A simple “We shouldn’t have showed that. Sorry.” would suffice.) are whiners and need to shut up kind of shows how downhill the WoW community itself has gone. No one’s looking for a reason to complain, we’re looking at something that’s already happening more and more in the wow community, (LFG is a horrific place sometimes.) and watching blizzard give the nod that that sort of behavior is okay by their books.

    Even with the censorship, what they posted would have been against blizzard’s own terms of use for the game. Is this a do as I say not as I do case?

  47. Unaco says:

    Ewww, breeders.

  48. gr0undzer0 says:

    Are we still calling white males privileged?

    I don’t remember getting points added to my entrance exam in college like some “non privileged groups”

    I don’t remember going to college on tax money (even though I claimed independence)

    I don’t remember people walking on egg shells not to offend me.

    It’s not that I want to get handouts .. I just don’t want anyone to get them. I’m all about equality in financial and social respects. That means you can make fun of me I can make fun of you and you can get the fuck over it.

    • Pathetic Phallacy says:

      It looks like someone is suffering from the white man’s burden.

      Is it hard being so white? Please, tell us your tale of struggle so that all can hear the horrors of being white in America. I’ll sing while you preach.

      Please watch that stand-up. Also, I’m proud of you for standing up and admitting your whiteness. It takes a lot of courage and I respect you for that.

    • Apples says:

      Do you remember having role models that you can identify strongly with in most of your media for your entire life?
      Do you remember most of the people at your college course being similar to you?
      Do you remember people at college/work generally automatically assuming you’re an intelligent, capable person?
      Do you remember being able to laugh easily and never feel awkward when people make ‘edgy’ jokes about women or foreigners?
      Do you remember walking along dark streets without worrying?

      Cause I’m not male and I don’t remember any of those things!

      Seriously you have a pretty short-sighted view of ‘privilege’. It’s not all financial. Yes, other genders/races get some ‘handouts’, as you call them, but that’s to make up for literally centuries of oppression and being considered second-class citizens.

    • Berzee says:

      “Yes, other genders/races get some ‘handouts’, as you call them, but that’s to make up for literally centuries of oppression”

      Dang, those are old people.

      For your particular issues as a college-lady, the solution would of course not be “getting handouts” but would instead be a whole bunch more guys learning to be Gentlemen. =)

    • Apples says:

      @Berzee: My point was that privilege is nothing to do with getting financial help or not, so yes, of course the solution is not handouts. Although nor is it anything to do with men being more like “gentlemen” either, whatever that means. Not sure why you have centred in my education out of that post (I brought it up because the poster I replied to did). Those things I said are not the “issues of a college-lady”, they are general issues of being a woman, and areas in which white males DO have more privilege no matter how much they whinge and prevaricate about it.

    • Berzee says:

      I just centered on college because you mentioned it so many times, you can remove that and just substitute the word “lady”.

      But yes, if a sufficiently high population of men were Gentlemen there would probably be less assuming-you’re-not-intelligent-or-capable and less worrying-while-walking-down-dark-streets, et cetera.

      Not that there are no Gentlemen about, just that in some places at some times they might be rather outnumbered.

    • Jibb Smart says:

      “Do you remember most of the people at your college course being similar to you?” You’re kidding, right? Maybe it depends on the program.

      I’m a white male in Computer Science. It is something like 95% male. It sucks. If there were more women there I’d be more likely to actually attend. And while there are tonnes of computer science students who really shouldn’t be there because they’re so incapable, it’s only the women who I assume are smart and capable, because they break the stereotype.

    • Apples says:

      Had the same experience with my Comp Sci degree, except obvz being in that 5%. Lovely to know that it was our presence in the lecture hall that would have inspired you more than the quality of teaching or any such inconsequential thing like that… (who am I kidding though, there is basically no quality of teaching in universities)

    • Jibb Smart says:

      “(who am I kidding though, there is basically no quality of teaching in universities)” A bit of that, and a bit of prior experience means I’m only enrolled in university to acquire a degree so my resume/portfolio isn’t automatically ignored by potential employers. If I’m travelling an hour and a half each way just for an alternative to my more local social circles, I’d rather I was hanging out with (or at the very least, meeting) girls.

      I imagine it must be awful on your end as well. I’ve heard it said that everyone, regardless of gender, would rather hang out with girls :P

    • gr0undzer0 says:

      I’m not upset because I don’t get handouts. I’m upset that people always cry for equality but then want a leg up to get there. Equality means people get treated equally. Not some people get more to “make them equall”. I think political correctness is a bunch of sissy bs and its al part of the “no one is a looser ” mentality the USA has. Sorry but there are loosers out there and there are people who just fail at life.White, black, hispanic, gay, man, woman all the groups have fail. Lets just be honest about it.

    • zergrush says:

      Equality is about making sure people get equal opportunities, and to achieve that you DO have to give some advantage to groups that due to all different kinds of historical conditions and generally being oppressed in the past are less likely to be as rich ( therefore as”equal” ) than the majority of people.

      Blacks / hispanics / gay caribbean midgets used to have unfavourable conditions and for a long time had absolutely no economical growth, therefore they’re more likely to be poor and generally have less opportunities in life.

      It’s not rocket science, and it’s not your fault that they’re in that position, BUT a system that promotes equality should give historically oppressed people some advantage to make them more equal to people who didn’t suffer those things.

      Also, about 30% of my comp-sci class is female ( but I’m on a different country and continent with a completely different situation, and I believe the amount of women enrolled in higher education has been higher than men over the last few years here )

    • Keep says:

      “Equality means people get treated equally.”

      It’d be great if society were beside you, but the way history has brought us to where we are now means we shouldn’t just treat people as equals already.

      Here, this jpg’ll show the idea: http://www.thbook.org/lightofthemoon/pics/Brief%20history%20of%20race%20relations%20in%20the%20US.jpg

    • gr0undzer0 says:

      That pic would be accurate if all white people gained their position through slavery of others. I suppose in a way the guy who works for subway or pizza hut is treated pretty porely but they choose to work there. Still plenty of people made wealth / notiriaty without slavery. The main avenues for advancement are church, military, education. Each of them give varying degrees of status in different ways. Plenty of people climed up from the bottom.

    • Premium User Badge

      Dorchadas says:

      “Still plenty of people made wealth / notiriaty without slavery. ”

      They still benefit from racism on a society-wide level. For example: White applicants with criminal records are more likely to receive a call back than black applicants without one, even if all other characteristics are the same (source: http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf)

      And that’s happening TODAY. That’s the biggest misdirection people throw out about affirmative action and other anti-racism measures–that they’re only for correcting historical discrimination. They’re for correcting that and for the current discrimination that white people still benefit from.

      (study obviously took place in the US and may not be applicable elsewhere)

  49. Chris D says:

    Whether it’s intended as such or not any term of derision that implies a person is inferior on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality contributes to an atmosphere in which it becomes harder to be a person of that type and easier for those who choose to attack them.

  50. Mephisto says:

    Hmm, Blizzard aren’t selling me their new expansion with this trailer.

    Sound is of poor quality for a start. Character models are realistic though.