Horse Armour Been Laid Off: On Skyrim DLC

By Alec Meer on December 12th, 2011 at 10:38 am.

Stop trying to peek between his legs

First: we do not know what the Skyrim DLC will be. I’m not pretending otherwise. But Todd Howard has been musing upon the nature of add-on chunks for the game of swords and shouting, and while he’s obviously PRing to some degree, it sounds like the thinking is along ambitious rather than cyncial lines. Bethesda are looking at “ways to make the game better, not just have more, because the game is so big,” Howard told Joystiq. “So we’re going through ideas right now, and processing everything people are doing in the game, and trying to think of ways that we can improve it.” I would take fixes and thoughtful improvements to abilities and world behaviour over another chunk of quest-littered terrain any day.

That’s all we know, other than that “they won’t be quick” releases. Which is also good news – I don’t want meagre, buggy stuff. Well, buggy is all but a given going on Bethesda’s track record, but let’s hope for “only a bit buggy, eh?”

It’s speculation/request time, then. I’d particularly like an expansion of the thieves’ guild stuff, so I’m not just doing petty crimes after having mastered all that. And also the ability to dress NPCs up in other people’s clothes instead of simply nudifying them. I won’t be happy until everyone in Whiterun is wearing Falmer armour.

Oh, and Howard also commented a) that the game had sold much better than they’d expected and b) yes, they’re aware of the now legendary bucket trick (see below, in case you somehow missed it), and there’s been an internal argument over whether to patch it out. Embarrassed programmers say yes, but amused designers say it’s “our favourite”, basically. Sounds like it’s staying, thank Nocturnal.

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92 Comments »

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  1. Hoaxfish says:

    Wouldn’t logic say, that if someone puts a bucket on your head, you take it off? I guess the problem lies in how an NPC detects a container is on their head in the first place, and a suitable animation for removing it (I guess bending over might throw the bucket off).

    • Caleb367 says:

      Good idea, but imho it’s not THAT important. It’s an exploit, it has reached near-meme status, but if you’re going to play seriously you just don’t do it.

    • Apples says:

      There’s probably no way to literally detect a bucket on the head, but I’d say some kind of simple animation if you have no line of sight to anything except one object in any direction might work. Those line of sight checks might be expensive though, and I don’t know how/when they’re checking line of sight as it is, so that might not be reasonable…

    • pepper says:

      Apple, I think a few raycasts in 5 directions(3 axis) should not be that expensive, also note that you can spread it out over multiple game ticks, nobody would mind if it took the NPC a bit to get the bucket off.

      Then again, stuff like this is to funny to have in a game.

    • edit says:

      Patching it out would be a shame. Adding some more NPC behavior to further deepen the interaction would be much much preferable. There’s nothing fun about simply blocking the player from certain actions simply because the designers and programmers didn’t anticipate it. Sometimes those unexpected things are gold.

    • iteyoidar says:

      I hope “more NPC behavior” would mean jumping up and running about with a bucket stuck on their head, crashing into furniture and walls and stray cheese wheels until they knock themselves out (so you can steal the rest of their stuff)

    • vecordae says:

      It’d be fun if the NPCs responded to the bucket thing in different ways. I could easily imagine Nord Guy A saying “What is this? Bucket time?” and chuckling a bit before taking it off. If you do it again, he gets cranky, tells you to cut it out and immediately takes the bucket off. Some NPC’s don’t like it at all and some think its a hoot every single time.

      It’d bit a pain to program, though. You’d have to add bucket counters to all of the NPCs and record (or recycle) dialogue from a big pile of voice actors. Plus, there would be animations to make and special bucket-detection algorithms to produce.

    • RandomGameR says:

      Just give M’aiq a few lines of dialog about it and you’re golden.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      I think a “hey!” and a shake of the head and shoulders should do it.

  2. Belsameth says:

    I didn’t know that one.
    Also, ROFL!

    I’d like to see more options for all crafting really.
    Just got to 100 in smithing and it all seems a bit useless now that I’m running in a full dragon set.
    There’s just hoping for enough Deadra hearts but maybe a mastery quest for all skills would be fun. One that, ofcourse, offered a fitting reward for getting a skill to 100…

    Also, let us loot schematics/reciepts/books that would teach us how to make stuff that you don’t get simply from choosing the perks.

    • Caleb367 says:

      ^ This. But not THAT necessary, as I’m sure a uber-crafting mod will come out soon after the SDK. Schematics a’la Fallout 3 sound interesting, however.

      As for me, I’d wish for more persistent gameplay when joining a particular guild as Alec says in the article. I mean, right now my dude’s the archmage of Winterhold, got a pretty rad loft with magic-craftin’ stuff, and literally nothing more to do.

      (Also, I find it funny that in Skyrim news travel fast – guards in Whiterun commenting on stuff happened in Winterhold as soon as I get there – but STILL the damn Farengar tells me to try joining the college of mages. Even if I’m before him in my damn Archmage uniform.)

    • iyokus says:

      Smithable tools that chop wood and mine ore faster, and weigh less. Please.

    • Heliocentric says:

      What is this? Minecraft Notch should sue… Oh right.

    • hamish says:

      if you’re looking for more armor sets and stuff get Tytanis mod, holy daedric armor will look great with my paladin

    • FRIENDLYUNIT says:

      Dragon bone buckets.

    • Ruffian says:

      maybe I’m crazy but I would like to see a flintlock or maybe crossbows in the game. Something better at a range than the turdy old bow and arrow. Yeah I know spells and such but it just doesn’t seem like there’s a whole lot a of variety in there if you wanted to play an archer type character. It wouldn’t have to be all powerful necessarily either. I’m not trying to say they should turn TES into Fallout or anything. just would be neat if the option was there specially in the big battles. They could compensate for either becoming overpowered by making ammo somewhat rare or craftable. My opinion though, fully aware that others may not share it.

  3. MarineMarauder says:

    Im not that far into the game but AFAIK you do not have the option to craft spells , maybe that could be a good DLC material?(Packaged with other Wizardy stuff of course)

    • Grygus says:

      This is an excellent idea.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      Package that with Stuff To Do Once You’re The Archmage, more College stuff in general, and NPCs actually recognizing that you’re the Archmage of the College, and I’ll buy it.

  4. atticus says:

    Horse improvement.

    Firstly, make them faster.

    Also, I want to jump off my horse instead of slowly dismounting when a bear is chewing its hindlegs.
    Then, I would like the horse to run away instead of engaging in combat, so that it doesn’t get in my way and accidently get killed by my warhammer AGAIN.

    Lastly, I’d like a horse-flute. Play the flute, and your horse comes running to you – like in Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Sick of running around searching for the beast.

    • Premium User Badge

      lhzr says:

      >>Firstly, make them faster.
      http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=934

      >>Also, I want to jump off my horse instead of slowly dismounting when a bear is chewing its hindlegs.
      http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3145

      >>Then, I would like the horse to run away instead of engaging in combat, so that it doesn’t get in my way and accidently get killed by my warhammer AGAIN.
      http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1522

      >>Lastly, I’d like a horse-flute. Play the flute, and your horse comes running to you – like in Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Sick of running around searching for the beast.
      http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1767

      thanks for the suggestions, btw, i only thought of looking for the whistle thing. now i’ll a much better horsey experience :)

    • arrjayjee says:

      Don’t worry about a flute, just learn the “FOO KIN HORS” shout to call your horse.

    • groghog says:

      All those things have mods for them. Just search ‘horse’ on the nexus and set it to most endorsements

    • edit says:

      Yeah the horse is quite strange. It is both pretty ridiculous and highly impractical when your horse charges into combat. I would love to see the ability to jump straight onto your horse’s saddle (if you jump onto it from above for instance), the ability to jump straight off the horse, and the ability to use weapons and spells from horseback.

    • xkcd999 says:

      With no intent to insult anyone here, i find both the representation of horses in games often laughable, as well as people’s opinion of how they should be. Yes, some stunt riders with specially trained horses may be able to jump into the saddle. Most likely, you would do damage to the horse’s back, that may cause long term complications, and almost certainly cause the animal to bolt – you would probably end up in a heap on the floor. These animals have been useful throughout history, but they are not vehicles in the modern sense, and people like me spend years with them and still have much to learn – they will obviously never be perfectly represented in a game, just as humans never will be.

      Recent games have made so much progress with horse graphics and animations, with skyrim, mount and blade, and AC brotherhood as fine examples. But just as any obsessive cant stand seeing their hobby misrepresented, id love to see a more realistic representation of riding in games. For a start – walking a horse is not slow. In mount and blade, for example, horses walk at one speed, slower than the foot soldiers walk, even. At an average walk for a fair sized horse, people on foot will be at a marching pace to keep up. At a more active walk you’re going at jogging pace really. A horse at walk can travel long distances. Trotting is the most underused pace in gaming, yet the most used pace by most riders. Trotting can be sustained for long periods, an active trot is a speedy pace, an average trot is about 8mph, but it can go considerably faster. Cantering is the pace most games keep horses at. Now this grates with me, as no one in their right mind gets on a horse and asks for canter, at least 10 minutes warm up is needed beforehand. At canter, the surface becomes very important, obviously skyrim has no tarmac, but any solid surface should be avoided as the horse has little grip and will quickly damage the bones of his leg. On the grassy plains of skyrim, yes, a horse could be kept at a steady canter for long periods, once warmed up. I am not asking for total realism – but some of these changes could add interest to the system. On dirt, grass, even natural rocky paths, the canter will be fine, this will not limit gameplay. And gallop is an elite pace, extremely fast, as fast as anything will possibly go in skyrim. When i hear gamers get on a horse in a game (yes, im looking at you, tobuscus), and ask why they’re going so slow and cant gallop, i have two answers: the devs should have made canter twice as fast, and you dont really need a gallop button at all. It is a rarely used pace, it has little place in a game like skyrim, as you would just not use gallop as a way to get from A to B. It has its place, if running from danger for example, but when games now have such good stamina and sprint systems for the player, a tiredness level for the horse would be great – both canter and gallop should be a drain on the horse’s stamina.

      To prevent this getting too long, ill sum up major changes that would be a horseman’s dream in games:
      – In RPGs like skyrim, riding must be a skill. If heavy armor or stealth are skills, not having riding is a disgrace. A beginner could barely get into trot, let alone canter or gallop. They say it takes 7 falls to be a rider, so the idea of getting on a horse and having the character instantly able to ride all the paces with no problems is ridiculous. The paces should definately be perks in a game like skyrim – while enough practice would probably be enough to master walk and trot, and these speeds should be enough for casual riders, but you do need to be taught to correctly pull off the transition from trot to canter, and later into gallop. So many perks could be added, from decreased risk of falls, better control of panicked horses, direct transitions (walk to canter, halt to trot etc), increased mount/dismount speed etc etc. In non rpg games, such as assassins creed, more consistency is needed. Ezio and Altair are both terrible riders, they slouch in the saddle, mount and dismount awkwardly and often dangerously, and how the horses possibly jump with them riding is beyond me. Yet we can ride all the paces with no risk, and Ezio is portrayed as a master horseman, with all his ridiculous stunt riding leaps from the saddle. If you want your character to be a novice rider, thats fine. But if you’re setting a character up as a great rider, at least watch a good rider before animating the character.
      – Secondly, as said above, we need more correct paces, particularly when it comes to speed. A good working trot is enough for most situations.
      – Horses must be less predictable. They can and will spook at any number of things. Even a mere handful of personalities randomly assigned to horses would be great, from what are called ‘bombproof’ characters who can be ridden around busy roads without a second look at any other animals, vehicles, road markings etc. We have the easily spooked horses, who may become distracted or frightened, or even bolt, from things considered frightening – depending on the horse this can range from truly scary things like lorries, down to a road marking or a flapping piece of material like a flag. Finally, we have horses that will try their hardest to throw riders off, requiring much more skill. Depending on the level of stubborness they may just refuse to move and require firm and skilled riding, or they may randomly buck and rear for no apparent reason. Obviously there are as many personalities as there are horses, but different levels of stubborness and frighten-ability would add lots to the game, and put more emphasis on a riding skill tree – if you just jump on any random horse you find, you need to have a fair degree of ability to ride, if it turns out to be awkward and piss off at high speed with you on its back.
      Im sure i can think of more but these are a few points id love to see developers consider. Just thought id jot it down in response to the idea of jumping down into the saddle, as that sounds like a shortcut to lameness to me. However, i agree that mounting and dismounting in games should be quicker, although tying this to a skill would be even better.

      EDIT And yes, horses would never charge into a battle without a rider to give them confidence to move towards the enemy, which would be seen as a very real danger. Once you jump off a horse, it will most likely get out of there as fast as possible. In gaming terms, it should stop after a reasonable distance, but in reality it would keep going, and most likely head for home – the safety of the stable or field where he lives. So in a game it should either stop and graze a fair distance away, or the player should be able to tie the horse up during combat. Not that any of my ideas will ever find their way into a game but any modders or devs, take heed! :D

    • Manx says:

      To xkcd999:
      I would love to see those horse improvements!
      I wonder if modders would be able to make something like this. I would get it immediately!

    • sqparadox says:

      @xkcd999 I love that your post says “To prevent this getting too long” in about the middle of it. Your post brought back a lot of memories and made me miss my horses that are now long gone. I haven’t ridden in almost 5 years (got too expensive), but it’s great to see someone who really knows what they are talking about.

      I would love to see what xkcd999 is suggesting, but I fear it would be too complex and remove too much utility from the game’s horses. I can’t remember ever seeing a horse in a game that wasn’t done laughably badly, but I’ve learned to mostly ignore it.

      However, the fact the horse can only slowly walk and canter is excruciatingly annoying. What xkcd999 said about gaits is exactly right. The ability to trot would be invaluable, as would being able to canter at a reasonable speed. As it is the speed of the canter is much closer to that of the ‘lope’ in Western riding. While technically the same gate their speeds can look so drastically different that they appear to be completely different gates (according to wikipedia the canter is 10-17 mph while lope is only 8-12 mph).

      I do think that horses should definitely react in a much less predictable, more flighty way. War horses were bred to be very high strung. The related breeds still in existence generally spook far more easily than traditional work horses (hot blood vs cold blood). The reasoning I’ve been told for this is that the vast majority of horses would spook and run during battle conditions. While a cold blood would make the decision on its own to GTFO, a hot blood would just make the decision to RUN, thus leaving the rider able to direct the horse toward the battle rather than away from it. That’s how it was explained to me and, though it may be a terrible explanation (or possibly completely inaccurate-if someone has a better explanation, please, give it), it is the general trend seen among horses; and one I’ve never even seen a game attempt to do.

      Also, why am I the only one in a game that ever rides a horse? And I know it looks cool, but staying on a horse who is rearing is NOT easy.

    • kikito says:

      The horseman knows his stuff.

      At the bare minimum, horsemanship should be a skill. Rapid mounting should be a perk. And using arc while riding a running horse should be, like, the max peak or something.

    • Reapy says:

      Loved reading about the details of the horse. I don’t think they would fit into a game like skyrim though. First off you can assume the rider is competent since he is an adult entering a world without cars, so you can assume he learned to ride at some point in his life.

      Having perks for riding would be hard to justify since they do not do anything to forward the player’s progress. Travel times are not an issue because of fast travel, so not being able to level up your spells or 1 hand weapon to ride faster would be seen as a waste, sort of how the lock pick tree is.

      I don’t feel like elder scrolls is much of a horse game, their scale is all wrong in terms of the populations of towns and how far apart things are, it’s fine to just run really.

      However I would have loved to see stuff like that in other games, particularly in red dead redemption, I was upset that the horses didn’t have personalities or really anything to differentiate them from one another.

      Would love a game that really emphasizes horses (nudge mount & blade) to have a bit more realistic take on them, however, you don’t want to really alienate players by making it too difficult to ride a horse, even if it might be realistic.

    • Apples says:

      xkcd: clear this up for me, if you’re trying to scale a steepish slope/road, is a horse better or worse than going on foot? A lot of fantasy books have their protagonists abandon the horses on steep paths, but the only use of a horse in Skyrim is to go almost vertically up a slope and the loading screens say they’re good for scaling heights. Obviously I know a horse can’t really run up an 85 degree angle but is it a plausible or completely blitheringly stupid design decision to make horses be useful for that? (It seems stupid to me but I can’t ride at all)

    • xkcd999 says:

      Unfortunately i think you are correct there. While i am sure some of the rider skill could be implemented without alienating players, and i agree the player can be assumed to know how to ride to a basic level, i still think gallop as a brief speed boost, dependant on how many perk points are put into it perhaps? and of course influenced by the build of horse. Yep, its a shame that the perks are limited, as it would be nice to create a fairly rounded character with good ability in both combat and non combat abilities. In a game like skyrim, which is SO big, i dont really want to make more than a couple of characters, so its a disappointing limit. Then again, a new riding skill would potentially allow a slightly higher level to be achievable.
      Yep, MountnBlade is the big culprit here, as i have not played enough skyrim to really talk with any authority about it. Still, for both games this would make a nice realism mod, if it were possible, as only players interested would download it. I would love to try some of the modding, not something ive ever looked into before, but between caring for the horses and college i have little enough time to play videogames, let alone piss around like that. Ill have a quick look at the tools when they’re released, but sounds bloody difficult.
      On another note, surely they have to remove the bucket glitch? funny as it is, there’s no fun to robbing the world blind – literally… although thats the joy of bethesda games, everyone has a different definition of fun! mine might be exploring every inch of the world, some1 else can enjoy the main quest, and other people enjoy combat or thievery. Keep up the great work Bethesda, but leave ES6 for a while now, this will be hard to better, and you need to put the finishing touches on skyrim first, as well as giving us another fallout. How about a london fallout? :D or some random area of the uk would be hilarious, in the same way as new vegas took us somewhere new. Anyway, peace off RPS.

      EDIT: I could act all smart and make up some bullshit, but honestly here in the uk we really only ride on fairly flat fields or the roads. Id say the main worry would be loose rocks, as their feet are very delicate and can easily be injured by sharp rocks stabbing into their soles. they are fairly good at hills, much better than us… but the problem here is that i ride as recreation, so we think from the horse’s point of view, we dont think so much about practicality. Yes, a horse would be more capable of climbing hills, ive ridden in the alps and they are suprisingly good as long as the surface gives them plenty of grip. We use fast hill work here as a means of fittening horses, so it does them good and they are capable of it, and yes if you had to get up a big hill, it would be easier to ride up it than walk. i think you could climb STEEPER on foot though, as you can use your hands, and can better coordinate yourself, while a horse would be struggling on very steep slopes with a rider on board. So it makes sense up to a point, yet on very steep slopes it would make more sense to get off and lead the horse up as it could coordinate its own legs, and you the same with your own. Anyway, long comment over!

    • Drinking with Skeletons says:

      No discussion of horses in games is complete without bringing up Shadow of the Colossus. While you could do all sorts of crazy stuff with the horse–stand up on it while firing arrows at a giant sandworm being a personal highlight–it was flighty as hell when you got off of it and fairly willful when riding. (I’m told the animation for the horse was grotesquely off from how a horse actually moves, though.)

      And you know what? It’s annoying to have a mode of transportation that does not respond well to your commands. Sure, you’d get attached to it, but that had more to do with the fact that it was practically the only other character–in as much as a generic horse can be a character–in the game (aka Companion Cube Syndrome). Videogames demand precision, and I would gladly give up some realism in favor of tighter controls. And as for a riding skill, play Sacred 2. Not a very fun option in an action RPG.

    • IndelibleHulk says:

      Great stuff on the horses, XKCD! I don’t mind wildly unrealistic horse acrobatics, so much. Agreed with the above on Shadow of the Colossus getting it Right. Most simple to fix, you should steer the horse like a car, not a player character. Even Ocarina of time had that going on, right? Meaning, the horse continues moving forward at the set speed until you give it a new command, you only steer. Also, does it make any sense to have a jump button for a horse? Don’t they only jump over valid obstacles, automatically? Again, 3D Zelda. There’s like 3 horses in all of Japan, Bethesda. You’re making the West look bad.
      Anyway, add some RPG depth and you’re good to go! Horses could level up, need food, proper lodging now and then, anything.

      Not only do the horses attack absolutely anything, they seek out people that haven’t even threatened them yet! What sort of blood-soaked murder horses do they breed up here? Charging all over a fort picking fights with bads.
      Tips for you struggling with stupid horses: If you steal a horse, or borrow one from the civil war questline, smack it once when you’re out adventuring! Now your horse will follow you everywhere, even though you don’t own it, simply because it’s trying to clop your face off! Won’t attack anyone else besides you and is hilariously somehow less in your way than if it was trying to help you. You can still mount a hostile horse. Next time you fast travel it should have forgotten it’s blood oath.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      I can’t help but think this should all be a totally different game. HorseSim 2012? I just want the horses to be faster than walking, the ability to jump off a horse (or just get thrown off by a bolting horse) when a bear starts trying to eat it, and saddle bags. Oh, and optimally they should also run away when attacked unless they’re trained warhorses.

    • dogsolitude_uk says:

      I did myself a bit of a mischief last time I climbed onto a horse. Riding was *not* an easy thing for me! You’re blimmin’ high up for a start, and after a couple of hours I got aches in all kinds of places. Respect X 100 for anyone who can make a go of it.

      Anyway, it did occur to me that your horse could have stats, such as speed, strength (related to how much it can carry) and bravery earlier, but from the sounds of it you guys have given the idea a lot more thought than I :)

    • Zenicetus says:

      If horses were more like the real horses I’ve ridden through the years (mostly in relation to job situations), they’d reach around and bite my leg, or randomly take off into an uncontrolled gallop. :)

      I’ve stopped riding horses in Skyrim for several reasons, and not just the goofy way they react to combat and draw aggro. Trails and roads aren’t clearly marked on the map, so I’m constantly going off-trail to find a clear path to an objective. That often involves clambering over boulders and hiking steep grades where you wouldn’t expect a horse to go. I don’t mind that… exploration is fun, it’s just incompatible with having a horse tagging along. It’s bad enough trying to keep companions following me on some of those shortcuts.

      It also feels strange to be the only person in Skyrim, apparently, who rides a horse. Everyone else walks. It breaks immersion to be the Squire up on a horse with your companion trotting along behind (in heavy armor, no less), when you have more than enough gold to buy one more horse. And why don’t horses have saddle bags, to help haul loot so I don’t need that companion-as-suitcase anyway? Having the player as the only person mounted in the game just exposes how much of a tacked-on feature it is.

    • 2late2die says:

      @xkcd999 I totally understand how coming from someone with actual experience with horses you’d love to see these kinds of changes, I thinking you’re reaching to far. In a game, a balance of realism and fun must be maintained and for most people it wouldn’t fun to have to learn a perk just to get on a horse :) Besides, I think it’s safe to assume that our character is not a complete noob to the ways of the world, even at level 1.

      Having said that I do think that there should be a skill tree for horses, though I’m thinking of a mixed “horse control” and “mounted combat” tree (Skyrim NEEDS mounted combat) as well as some sort of health/stamina system for horses (even a very basic one).

      Things like calling your horses from anywhere (a la Red Dead Redemption) could be part of the tree (in the “horse control” branch). Maybe the fast gallop as well. Also maybe things like mount/dismount on the move; bravery for the horse; smarts – wouldn’t be cool if you could tell your horse to hold up somewhere, or set it to be aggressive or defensive or something (yeah yeah @xkcd999 not realistic, but remember gameplay :) ).
      In the combat branch there could be things like damage modifiers, i.e. with little skill you get heavy penalty to attacks but as you level up they go up. Shooting arrows on the move is definitely a skill.

      I’d love to see stuff like this.

  5. Borklund says:

    inb4 the people crying about the abundance of Skyrim posts on RPS

  6. lordfrikk says:

    Horse improvement: Make Shadowmere a summon, similar to Darksider’s Ruin. /dream

  7. Keasar says:

    More often I am thinking that I am looking forward more to the mods then the officially produced DLC. Mods at least will perhaps fix the UI, add more skills to make the game feel more complex (seperate 1-handed into Axe, Sword and Mace skills again please) or make cool houses with lots of neat features like the Underground Hideout in Fallout New Vegas. http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37884

  8. Bungle says:

    Co-op! The world is big enough to fit plenty of people. I’d like to go questing with friends.

  9. Sorbicol says:

    Sorting out the inventory system would be champion I reckon…… No, they tend to leave that sort of stuff to modders don’t they?

    Some extensions to the main companions / mages college / thieves guild would be nice, along with some recognition that I am the damn Harbinger thank you. Next guard who says “You’re the new companion. Do you just fetch their tea?” is going to get an axe to the face……

    • MikoSquiz says:

      Oh, god, yes. PUT ALL THE GODDAMN SOUL GEMS IN ONE PLACE BETHESDA, WERE YOU ALL DROPPED HARD ON YOUR COLLECTIVE HEAD AS .. a .. collective child of .. one head of dozens of people..?

      Anyway, I can’t believe they actually released the game with the inventory management in that state. It’s been bad before, but really? Really really?

    • 2late2die says:

      Yep, and in the same vein, how about when I become the leader of the freaking thieves guild I no longer have to listen Vex ask me to do stupid petty 500-gold burglaries. Shouldn’t I be planning legendary heists and stuff.

  10. Apples says:

    More spells! I haven’t bought a spell since about level 19 and I’m level 25-ish now. Once you get firebolt, flame cloak, fire rune and a summon you’re basically out of spells. I just repetitively dual-cast firebolt at everything and it dies without even touching me due to stagger effect. Extremely boring. Would like a choice of a few familiars instead of just the one wolf, and that should be pretty easy to make (apply some shaders/materials to existing enemies, release).

    I’d also like a NV-style hardcore mode, maybe with some farming/bread-making minigames and a buyable farm, and optional mechanics so you have to keep your temperature up. Horse combat using a bow, Ocarina of Time style, would be awesome but will never happen.

    • Koldunas says:

      wall of flame lightining is actually pretty useful when you are on your own. Especially against a group of leveled up mobs, because your summons just can’t tank enough and as a mage you don’t really have a lot of armor/hp. I am level 40 conj/destr, but still I can get two-shotted by a powerful monster, even from a distance. Double fireball stagger is really good at certain times, but there are moments when you just have to use combination of high level conjuration (double dremora lord), healing, wall of lightning and fus ro dah to avoid dying while your magic does its job.

    • Apples says:

      Unfortunately, not high enough level yet to get the wall spells or the really good conjuration – I’ve only just earnt the Frost Atronach summon a couple of levels ago. I think there’s a dead zone in the middle levels where you’ve got all the cruddy starter spells and no more open up for ages, and recently all the enemies I’ve faced have also been total pushovers that, at most, have needed a fus ro dah to chuck them to a safe distance.

      I also think they could have put Levitation back in with some invisible walls (give some old bollocks about how Levitation is banned from major cities because Nords hate magic), considering most towns are outside now!

    • wccrawford says:

      I don’t just want more spells. I want to -create- spells. I’m fine with having to do an entire quest line to get the ability, too.

    • nil says:

      Paralysis -> Wall of xyz is inordinately amusing.

      Also Calm, “Hah, your magic has no effect on me”, wait for them to turn around -> knife in the back.

    • Premium User Badge

      phuzz says:

      Does anyone else find that FUS ROH DAH is most useful for un-bugging companions?
      Lydia stuck on a knee high rock? Not anymore! (she’s cartwheeling across the landscape instead)

    • Drinking with Skeletons says:

      Yes to more spells. I want a fire spell inspired by the flamethrower powerup from Guerrilla War on the NES.

  11. Agricola says:

    I can’t even comtemplate DLC for Skyrim which adds more quests. Im 80 hours in, quarter way through the main story and I have a quest log that resembles two months of shopping lists rolled into one.

    New weapons, armour and spells please.

  12. Balobam says:

    A fix I would love, as I’m sure those who try to make things tidy would also like, is the ability for objects I place to remain there, instead of coming back to my house to find everything everywhere but where I placed them.

    Also, I think the ability to open doors to small rooms without every single physics object in the room making a mad dash for the door by ricocheting off everything. Makes it very hard to steal that sword stealthily when it’s darted under the bed and the only way to get it back is cast fireball at the wall due to my lack of Mysticism.

    • Premium User Badge

      Lars Westergren says:

      >objects I place to remain there, instead of coming back to my house to find everything everywhere but where I placed them.

      Yes, that is an annoyance. I spent minutes placing the dragon claw keys symmetrically on top of a drawer, only to find them scattered all over the room next time I came in. The house in Ripten at least has weapon displays and dummies you can outfit with neat looking armour you aren’t using. I had the Wabbajack and the Staff of Magnus on the wall for instance, and one of the dummies had the tyrant Mace and other Daedra artifact items all over.

      I haven’t had any of the other houses, curious if they have something similar.

    • Nallen says:

      Yes this does render display cases somewhat redundant, you can spend as long as you like arranging things and come back to find them fired like a shotgun blast, usually clipping out of the case.

    • Crescend says:

      Did you dispose of the previous items occupying the tables and other places before placing your own stuff on display? I found that unless I stash the previous items into a cupboard or whatever, they’d just snap right back into their original positions by magic after leaving for a period of time, and thus throw my old stuff on the floor. After that I haven’t had any issues with placing items, I just wish I had a way to rotate items while placing them..

  13. Premium User Badge

    Lars Westergren says:

    More contents in the thieves guild? Man, you are greedy Alec.
    :)

    **MINOR SPOILERS**
    I’ve finished Mages, and gotten a bit into Thieves, and I must say so far Thieves is much more fleshed out and has more quest variety. You can pick 4 different quests from Vex, 4 more from Devin, and there are several personal quests from others. Does the guild location change its apperence too if you restore the guild to it’s former glory? That would be neat.

    Mages was just a linear “Go through these caves one by one, congratulations new recruit, you are promoted to archmage”. Just about all side quests were dull fed-exes (“Deliver my enchanted item to shopkeeper in Solitude”).
    **END SPOILERS**

    I had wanted a more intricate magic system where you had to combine more fine grained elements or symbols to “research” in order to advance and find new spells. Or that different locations had different resonance which enable some magic schools and prevent others, or something. And in general more cerebral quests. Something that challenged player’s skill over magic, not abstract it away to a button click so it became interchangable with “stab monsters to win”. Mages are playing around with primal earth-shaping forces here, it should feel dangerous, difficult, and powerful.

    Edit: Oh, and the love interests. Give them some personality for goodness sake, make each relationship individual. Now, every one is the template:
    1) Do exactly one quest for them
    2) Say “You are interested in me, right?”
    3) Watch them go through the Stepford Wife personality wipe and have them lounge around the home, mechanically repeating “It’s pleasing to see you, love”.

    • Apples says:

      The Mage College questline was incredibly abrupt. So, I’m some new guy, then an ancient mystical order tells me how awesome and special I am, then I’m archmage. What, none of the others had aspirations to be Archmage? Not even though they’d all been there way, way longer than me, were obviously more accomplished mages because they were selling me spells and training me, or were incredibly competitve (J’zargo)? There was a quest after becoming Archmage, which briefly made me believe that this was where the meat of the questline would be, but no, it was just a “go here kill that” quest. oh.

      The transition from Morrowind’s first mage quest of picking mushrooms, to Skyrim’s first mage quest of being ~teh best wizerd eva~ coz the Psijics said so is very funny.

      And at least your wife/husband went to your house! Mine disappeared right after the vows and never returned!

    • Jolly Teaparty says:

      And took half the horse with her http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgQsYUMdsEo

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      Lars Westergren says:

      @Apples

      Exactly. There are some buildings in Labyrinth that hint at continuation (collecting the Dragon Lord’s masks, going through the labyrinth itself) but I haven’t solved these yet.

      >And at least your wife/husband went to your house! Mine disappeared right after the vows and never returned!

      That happened to me the first time too. There is a trigger that they should ask “Where do you want us to live” after the ceremony which doesn’t always fire it seems. It may be that they go back to their own house and wait for you there if that happens, but it isn’t obvious.

    • Premium User Badge

      lowprices says:

      Don’t forget pies. Your spouse also gives you a pie every day. And the profits from a store that doesn’t seem to exist. At least, if my husband is operating a store, he’s doing it out of my bleedin’ house. A house he never leaves. My theory? He’s selling his body. Possibly to Lydia, who always watches us sleep.

    • Drinking with Skeletons says:

      @Lars Westergrin:

      True, but that stuff is completable by non-mages. The Labyrinth provides the staffs that you need right at the entrance–which can later be sold for cash if you aren’t going to use them–in a way that makes it extremely obvious that they’re essential to completing the labyrinth. Not that there’s much reward for it anyway.

      Each of the College mages–with the possible exception of the shady wood elf–has a specific quest (with the exception of the Head Enchanter, who just has generic, repeatable Radiant Quests, and the librarian, who at least offers a unique reward for his generic, repeatable Radiant Quests), but most of them can’t be accessed until you reach 90 in a magic school. There’s also an unmarked quest and a sort-of quest (collecting recipes for a special alter) in the Midden, plus the unmarked (and rewardless, as far as I know) quest for finding the remains of the previous (doomed) class of students.

      Still, I’d like to see more right out of the gate, as it’s really easy to miss most of these quests (unless you are hardcore about maxing out every magic school and checking every spell merchant) and the College is less well-incorporated into the province than any of the other factions.

  14. Nallen says:

    Don’t say you’d take fixes in DLC! Jeez, I think we can expect them in just straight up patches, not paid content.

    • edit says:

      totes

    • Kal says:

      Fixes in DLC is a bonkers idea – restrict fixes only to people who pay for DLC? What? I guess I could see game-system expansion, say an overhauled magic system, but honestly you know the modders will do that sort of thing first and probably better in the end.

      I’m fine with new lumps of terrain and quests as DLC, just make it awesome!

    • merlin4 says:

      Oh yeah, I hate that. Happened alot in the opening portions of the game and then not as much later on.

  15. terry says:

    Good plan, the world’s static feeling could be alleviated somewhat by more variety in the little things you can do. I’d like to see a purpose for all those log cutting machines, or Black Horse Courier quests, or the ability to whittle tiny dragon figurines to put on my mantelpiece, or a bevy of other things that don’t involve whanging another specific quest island in or something. What bugged me about the Fallout DLC (Broken Steel aside) was that instead of fleshing out the world they created their own self-contained little areas, where all the new stuff was condensed. Give me a reason to explore!

    Also, please for the love of christ give the NPCs alternative/more things to say. I don’t need to hear about how hard working in the market selling vegetables is EVERY time I enter Whiterun.

  16. Eoghan says:

    Bring back the magical complexity of Morrowind!

  17. arovin says:

    A couple of small things I would like added:

    I would like to see the soul trap animation trigger when you kill someone with a bound weapon and have the soul stealer perk.

    More non armor clothing items would be a nice addition to see. Especially gloves, I cannot find a pair that match well with the mourners outfit my vampire likes to wear.

    As for DLC worthy content, I would love to see more sieges like in the civil war quests. Maybe a means of managing your own army and a reason to take over keeps, fortresses and towns.

  18. HardcoreGamer12 says:

    omg lol thank for the ‘how to steal in skyrim’ video i loled so hard xD

  19. Myros says:

    It would be nice to see a true ‘economy’ enabled. Like they originaly promised and a lot more – ie lumber mills affecting local economy, ways for player to affect/improve/destroy local economy. More ways for the player to have workers, farms/farmers/shops etc More NPC chains ie farm-wheat-bread-shop, hunt-meat-cook-sell, mine-smelt-forge-sell etc a more dynamic structure that the player can become involved in.

    And I always enjoyed the ‘stonghold’ quests, would be great to see those return. I want my own wizards tower :)

    It would also be nice to see some of these ‘cities’ grow beyond 20 people and 10 houses ;p

  20. illuminerdi says:

    Honestly this sounds great to me – I found the DLC model of giant new areas of gameplay that are physically isolated from the main landmass (Shivering Isles, F3’s DLC) to be a lot less compelling. It feels far too segmented and you can’t organically wander in and out of their questlines, you basically have to make a concerted effort to do them. As a result, you either finish them with a ton of overpowered gear for the rest of the main quest, or you go into them after having done the main quest and therefore acquiring a bunch of gear far less powerful than yours.

    Beyond the play balance problems inherent to this, it just feels artificial. I *love* the idea of them focusing more on game content than world expansion. I’d love to see more perks, more armor sets, more weapon types, more enemies, more spells, etc. Make all the abilities go up to 125, up the level cap, add some perks, and carve a bunch of caves/underground stuff into the existing mountains.

    Also, I never thought I’d say this, but I’d actually like some horse armor. I’m on something like my 15th horse by now, and I need something to keep them from dying so damn much! Maybe like an expert level spell called “resurrect horse” or something.

  21. Dannygeist says:

    I want to know how Sapphire got her name goddammit! I demand Thief’s Guild DLC.

  22. Craig Stern says:

    Is…is the title meant to be a pun on Osama bin Laden? I don’t know whether to shake my head or clap, so I’m going to do both, very slowly.

  23. neolith says:

    I don’t care for DLC – I’d rather have them fix the crappy UI.

  24. Drinking with Skeletons says:

    More magic spells has already been said–and yes, a thousand times–but magic could be very easily improved without DLC spell packs.

    1) An Empower [Magic School] enchantment. Increase damage, duration, range, whatever for a given school. Potions can already do this, so why not do the logical thing and add it in? Stack with Alchemy and make love like a sabre cat!

    2) Additional effects for the Apprentice/Novice/Etc. [Magic School] perks. Reducing Magicka cost is almost pointless since you can Enchant your way to infinite Magicka anyway. How about add 10% increase in power for each of these perks, resulting in potentially an additional 50% strength in a school of magic (and that’s excluding Perks that already empower specific spell types!)? I’d gladly settle for 40% and make the Master level perk have a “Decrease Charge Time by 50% for all spells” effect, which would make the Master level spells more viable and worth the time to get them.

    That’s all it would take! It’s still far behind Smithing+Enchantment, but combined with magic’s general versatility it would make a mage far more competitive.

  25. dogsolitude_uk says:

    “So we’re going through ideas right now, and processing everything people are doing in the game, and trying to think of ways that we can improve it.”

    Cool. Can we have a decent, properly overhauled UI? I know the mod community’s working hard on it, but a decent ‘official’ update would hopefully mean fewer installation/incompatibility issues with other mods and add-ons. Beth did do this (a bit) with the Tribunal expansion IIRC.

    I’d also like to see a couple of other things: the ability to name saves for one, and a notebook/journal system that will allow me to keep my own notes, like in Neverwinter Nights. I found that really handy (yeah, I know, I could use Notepad or a bit of paper, but keeping notes in game is something I quite like doing).

    • Wulf says:

      This is something that modders can and are (see SkyUI) handling.

      Personally, I think the UI is Just Fine for me. Reason being is that I’m short-sighed and I don’t want to suddenly have everything replaced with the standard PC Master Race approach to UI design, where you have to be some kind of bionic eagle to perceive the microscopic text on screen.

      So instead of making my life hell by having to use an old Interface.bsa and having to update it manually with every damn patch, since no one else would, let’s leave this to the modders. The modders can make you the brilliant UI you want without screwing over the accessibility of the current UI.

      (Blargh, typos which are actually correct words are the hardest to spot.)

    • dogsolitude_uk says:

      Fair comment, although I still believe that a sort function for the inventory would be useful, as well as being to name save games. I don’t think either would make things harder to read.

      IIRC one of the mods out there may actually allow you to change the text size in the interface too.

  26. Wulf says:

    If they removed the bucket thing, or the horse thing, or the werewolf thing, or the unexpected stacking things, then I would have to accuse them of being the most unfun developers in the history of ever. Seriously.

    They’re pretty funny bugs.

    I’m constantly discovering what new, insane heights I can drive Unarmed to. I’ve tested this, and with the right specs I can outDPS a fully specced out dual wielding character who has two enchanted blades. It’s completely ridiculous but entirely doable. I’ve given hints about how you do this before, but I’m always finding ways of driving it up. The funny part is that it makes being a Khajiit absolutely necessary. It also makes the Khajiit the most verifiably tough race in Tamriel. Bar none.

    And the bucket thing is silly. I had to use a variant of that when I had to steal something (for honourable purposes, in order to rescue someone!) and this one elderly lady just would not leave the room. And hurting innocents is something that my Khajiiti types have never, ever done anyway. In fact, they’ll run from most instances of combat, doing the Doctor Who ‘proud coward’ thing. In that they are fairly unique, but I digress.

    (It’s also kind of funny that werewolves are supposed to result in mad bloodlust but I usually use the werewolf as a method of transport. Since I can outrace the fastest horse as a werewolf, thanks to their enhanced dash speed and ridiculous reserves of stamina. I could probably outrun a car over a non-trivial distance, if Tamriel had cars.)

    Plus, werewolves can totally do the ‘not giving a shit about gravity’ thing that horses can. Plus proper jumping. I swear, the werewolves feel like hax, sometimes.

    But yes, there are fun bugs in Skyrim. Bethesda: You don’t fix the fun bugs, you fix the ones that are making people miserable. Good bugfixing is when people stop being miserable, bad bugfixing is when they start.

  27. Wulf says:

    RIFTEN. Riften needs DLC, seriously.

    I mean, there is stuff I’d like, but it’s things that I or modders could do since they’re very much selfish desires. (Like seeing a proper culmination with the dragons and reaching a peace treaty with them, or actually getting to the moot and making myself High King, or actually doing something with the whole Companions werewolf situation, like having the werewolves sanctified so that they can come out of their hairy closets, so to speak. All selfish things.) So I won’t push those things as DLC ideas.

    But Riften? I imagine Riften would benefit everyone. Okay, show of hands… who likes Maven Black-Briar and the Black-Briars? Right. Now, show of hands, who actually wants to run Maven out of Riften, or have her killed (if you prefer)?

    See, I can already predict the outcome to this. It’s going to be a landslide in favour of getting Maven the hell out of Riften. No one likes you, Maven.

    It’d be interesting if they could flesh out that nice Lioness lady too, and have her help out with gutting the corruption of Riften, getting to the core of it, and even having the corrupt guard taken care of. And at the end of it turning the Thieves Guild into something more honourable, and having the people of Riften finally feeling that they can sleep well at night.

    Riften needs DLC. :|

    • Premium User Badge

      jaheira says:

      /raises hand.

      Riften is my favourite city. It’s nice to be nasty.

  28. Bahoxu says:

    More interesting, non-combat spells.

  29. Premium User Badge

    Stormwaltz says:

    Knee-seeking arrows.

  30. Moonracer says:

    I’m looking forward to seeing how/if they add new skills and perks. The way perks are done I’m guessing you’d need to mess up the constellations or change existing perks.

  31. Stinkfinger75 says:

    Doesn’t the logical progression go Horse Armor ===> Dragon Saddles?

  32. scatterbrainless says:

    More dynamic and dramatic weather. Spell crafting sure would be nice, although hard not to make unbalanced/exploitable. Smithing really needs to be nerfed a bit in terms of power, but more variety of things to create would rule (dwemer construct crafting, like a warrior’s alternative to summons?). Some kind of environmental hazard, like cold damage, poisoned landscapes, lightning storms to make wandering around more like Stalker (or Bethesda could just buy IP rights and make Stalker 2 for me… come ooooooooooon, don’t be a jerk Bethesda).

  33. merlin4 says:

    I want a way to reset my skills. And an easier way to level once I’ve maxxed my primary attack abilities would be nice.

    • RegisteredUser says:

      1. Have a giant hit you. It will level your armor every single or other hit. Dito shield.

      2. Cast high mana use spells of stuff you don’t use. Levels up quickly.

      3. Smithing can be leveled quickly and easily. Just buy up materials on a material run and make infinite leather bracers.

      4. Pickpocket the small cash sums people carry and / or jewelry. Levels fairly quickly.

      I have throughout the game mostly felt that I leveled too quickly and I really don’t see a point in 70% of all skill perks. I have over 15 points left at the moment at level 54 or so and leveling is still damn fast. I have several times also dual or triple leveled due to wanting to save up levels for 5er trainings. Turns out you just skip ahead 2 levels instead of getting another level up train chance.

  34. Sinex says:

    Logic says that if someone tries to put a bucket on my head once, I shove him away and threaten him with a beating. And if he does it again he gets punched in the face.

    I want a patch for “buckethead = facepunch”.