Prepare For GFWL In Dark Souls: Prepare To Die

By Nathan Grayson on April 11th, 2012 at 9:00 pm.

Their first mistake was attacking it with swords. Their second mistake was attacking it at all.
I suppose there’s always a catch. On the upside, Namco Bandai’s officially given in to our appropriately tough-as-nails, stubble-faced Internet petition, and Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition has been pegged with an August 24 release date. By and large, it’s a port about as straightforward as a monster whose single, child-like aspiration in life is to brutally maul you, but it’ll have two new treats in tow. Well, OK, one of them – new bosses – is a treat. The other is GFWL. I’m hoping, of course, that it’s an in-game manifestation of Microsoft’s much-maligned “service” that’ll supplant the current final boss. It’ll hurl login errors, connection drops, and convoluted menus at us, and we’ll stab it to death – just like I’ve always fantasized. I suppose, though, that it wouldn’t be Dark Souls without some hair-pulling punishment. Take an all-too-brief glimpse at some of the new content in a trailer after the break.

Looks nice, huh? Shame it’s going to be burdened by GFWL, which – while highly obnoxious and certainly worthy of discouragement – shouldn’t be the sole reason droves of people steer clear of a wonderful game. So, anyone up for another petition?

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442 Comments »

  1. deadstoned says:

    New Petition to have GFWL removed has started 600 sigs in 30mins :)
    http://www.change.org/petitions/namco-bandai-and-from-software-release-dark-souls-pc-edition-without-games-for-windows-live#

    Edit: Now over 20,000+ in a few days O_o. Keep signing to make it clear GFWL should never be considered for any game. This should force other publishers to reconsider their positions as well.

    • Koshinator says:

      GFWL.. just why….
      signed.

      • Sparkasaurusmex says:

        This is broken.
        http://goodexperience.com/tib/

      • cassus says:

        I guess they get some money for being a GFWL game, and they are probably afraid they’ll make about 240£ in sales, total, on the pc because of piracy and the fact that a LOT of pc gamers already bought it on the PS3 (lots have both.) I don’t know how GFWL works, but I believe MS gives away some $ to people who decide to add that crap to their games.

    • Duckee says:

      I do condone the fact that this petition tries to get rid of GFWL, but the way the letter is worded and the fact that it wants Steam in place of it is a bit bewildering. Now, I hate GFWL as much as my neighbour and I love steam and its services, but I find that the petition should not make this suggestion. It should just be against GFWL, and then leave the stage to allow a healthy debate to occur on what to do instead.

      Please, edit your post so people are aware that if they sign the petition you have linked to they will be supporting the Steam platform in its stead (in case some people do not read the letter)

      • povu says:

        I’m not too happy with the wording either. Especially the ‘Steam or no sale’ bit, that just sounds too demanding.

      • alpha nexus says:

        I agree with you, I don’t like the petition suggesting to them to use Steamworks. Let’s just tell them that we don’t like GFWL and have them figure out how to deal with it.

        • Bonedwarf says:

          Better to offer an option than do what you said and have them go “Hey! Ubisoft did that always on thing. Let’s do that!!!”

          GFWL is a deal breaker. I’m done running laps around these idiots. Do it sensibly, or not at all.

      • Zelius says:

        I don’t understand why developers can’t make seperate versions for whichever digital distribution service they sell the game on.

        Why not make a GFWL version as well as a Steamworks version? And no, this does not mean bundling GFWL on Steam. That would just be silly.

        • MadTinkerer says:

          Because you would have to maintain two different codebases. It would basically require doubling your Q&A budget.

          With software development, bugs can show up anywhere, anytime, or anyhow, and one “minor” change to fix anti-aliasing issues on someone’s graphics card can break the game’s inventory system. Or maybe you tweak a combat move so that it takes 0.0001% longer to pull off and suddenly no one has any clothes on and putting things back the way they were doesn’t fix it. Why? Well congratulations, “why” is the reason you’re not going home today until you find out.

          If you maintain two different versions of something, for testing purposes you might as well have two completely separate projects. If someone were to maintain a GFWL version and a Steamworks version, they will have different bugs show up because they are effectively different programs. Oh dear, suddenly every guard in the world wants to kill you whenever you play for at least 5.37 hours on the Steamworks version and it doesn’t affect GFWL. Why? Well congratulations, now you need to make sure it’s 100% fixed in both versions before you go home.

        • malkav11 says:

          They do this occasionally. For example, Kingdoms of Amalur has two versions, one on Steam, and one everywhere else. I -think- the other one forces Origin, but I’m not 100% sure.

        • urughak says:

          I wont be buying if it has GFWL. Made the mistake of buying Bulletstorm on last Christmas Steam sale. Lo and behold it installed GFWL and I spent 5 days trying to get it to work. Steam support is shit. Always heard how customer friendly they are. That’s BS as well. Refused to refund money even tho I wasn’t able to play and I contacted them within a few days as well as refusing to escalate ticket to somone who could. All over email since there’s no phone numbers to call. Steam sucks now IMO. As much as I hate Steam tho? GFWL is worse.

          • HothMonster says:

            I agree steams customer service is shit, but how is it their fault that GFWL is a broken piece of garbage and won’t let you play a game?

      • theleif says:

        Agreed.
        I have no love whatsoever for GFWL, and I do like Steam, but I can’t sign a petition that says Steam or no sale.
        Vendor monopoly, (unless for public services) are never a good thing.

      • Sian says:

        By the sound of these comments, the wording has been changed:

        “We recommend Valve’s Steamworks in place, as this DRM is much easier to use, less intrusive, more reliable, and more accepted among PC gamers. Please reconsider the use of GFWL, or offer the game on both services.”

        I can’t find any mention of “Steam or no sale” at all, in any case. I only just saw it, so I’m probably not looking at the original wording.

        • Khemm says:

          Steam reliable? Are they kidding? Steam community goes down once, twice a week at least, and Steam’s server stability is horrendous. Try playing Shogun 2 or Dawn of War Retribution, it’s a nightmare.

          • RavenGlenn says:

            I don’t know what Steam you are using Khemm, but it’s been nearly perfectly reliable for me over many, many years. I’d say 99.99+% reliable. I can play my games when I want without fear. I can’t even remember a time where I wanted to play a game and couldn’t because of some service interruption.

          • HothMonster says:

            His internet sucks which is of course Steams fault.

            But when he said community goes down I believe he meant the forums which does go down for 10-15 minutes all the time. It also amuses me to know he must be trolling the shit out of those forums.

        • Duckee says:

          “but for a lot of customers it’s Steam or no sale.”

    • Nameless1 says:

      Signed.
      WTF.

    • db1331 says:

      It would be great if this petition got more sigs than the original “Bring Dark Souls to PC” petition. That might get the message across.

      • FakeAssName says:

        that a bunch of addicted asshats are throwing a tantrum?

        … yeah, I’d say that they are getting the message loud and clear.

        • PopeJamal says:

          I can’t help but agree:

          “I want a fucking pony! Now! Right this instant!”
          “What am I supposed to do with that brown monstrosity? I want a WHITE pony. A WHITE ONE! With a bow, and a pink saddle! NOW!!!1111111!”

          Seriously, they do US a favor by sticking their necks out and porting it for our platform of choice instead of telling us to bugger off, and now you complain because they’re not using your favorite brand of ketchup in the cafeteria. You do realize that there’s a very good chance that GFWL is an artifact of them porting over from the Xbox 360 version, don’t you? But why would you notice that when you’re too busy complaining about the color of the water fountains in the lobby.

          And then we wonder why people think we’re a bunch of elitist, ungrateful assholes.

          Now let’s pitch a fit because they’re not doing a Linux version…with a collectors figurine…Ingrates…

          • Phantoon says:

            “Do us a favor”

            What? They want your money. It’s not a favor. They’re expecting you’re going to buy it.

          • db1331 says:

            Um, what? I don’t want it to use GFWL because GFWL rarely ever works. I’ve had it nuke my saves, and I can’t even play RE 5 co-op with a friend (the whole reason we bought the game) because GFWL errors out when we try to join up.

            So to use your pony analogy, I’m not upset about not getting the color pony I wanted. I’m upset that the pony I got only has three legs, and just lies on the ground wallowing in its own piss and shit instead of letting me ride it around.

          • ThatGuy says:

            I’d say it’s more akin to a child begging their parents for a year for a pony, saying they’ll even pay for it as long as they can have it, then the parent finally caves and goes through the ordeal of figuring out how the hell you look after a pony and what it needs to live.

            After this, the parent finds a pony, locks it in this incredibly confusing box with an incredibly strong lock and using a key made of wafer the child must unlock the box, and if the key inexplicably breaks or just outright doesn’t work, the pony is eviscerated, and the parent then removes the childs pocket money for the next few years to pay for the pony mist the child bought.

            Everybody is grateful for the port, and extra content is fucking brilliant, but GFWL should never be resorted to. The only games I own with it are games I was not aware used it.

            Having said all that, I will still be buying it, but I do so hope they change their stance with GFWL. I want my pony, eviscerated or otherwise.

          • phylum sinter says:

            I’ve only seen severe problems with GFWL on cracked games, or computers that have cracked version of games that have GFWL.

          • chackosan says:

            Well, I’ve only ever seen GFWL problems on purchased games (Dawn of War 2, Arkham City). They didn’t quite break the game, but made it a major chore to get it working in the first place.

          • Premium User Badge

            beekay says:

            I’m not sure you understand analogy.

            What’s happened here is more like a country’s government announcing that human development indicators in the country are the highest in the entire world, and to celebrate, they’ll be distributing free uranium pellets from the sky.

            The first thing is excellent! … or would be, if it didn’t happen in exactly this way.

          • aepervius says:

            Favor ? Ingrate ? Why not throw an entitled here to complete the picture ?

            We are BUYING a product. Feedback is given by potential consumer, producer can ignore that feedback and lose some sales. That’s capitalism and “informed sales” between consumer/producer on which our economy are based. All those talk of entitlement and whatnot by tossers, completely miss that over. That has nothing with being ingrate or whatnot.

            Seeing how much lately in forums space / game blog / magazine such “entitlement / ingrate” post seem to crop up , I am guessing a lot of you don’t even understand either how capitalism is supposed to work , informed sales or even what “sense of entitlement” really means and use it in place where it does not begins to belong to.

            Bottom line is : feedback was given to the producer : we don’t want GFWL. Now they can ignore it for example, lose some sale, and we the buyer are now aware of the DRM and can do an informed choice whether we want the game or not. There is nothing much beyond that.

          • Savagetech says:

            I’d rather get *NO* Dark Souls on PC than have Namco release the game with an asinine and broken online component. It’s going to hurt their sales and discourage them from releasing more games on PC.

    • Valvarexart says:

      But I don’t like Steam. I don’t want it to be Steamworks. Why ask for a lesser evil?

      • _PixelNinja says:

        Dark Souls: Prepare to Lose Your Saves Edition

        • Milky1985 says:

          Werern’t all of the “lost saves” stuff from things like batman patched out by the game developer.

          I.E. The game developer was doing it wrong and using the wrong commands/features, not GFWL?

      • ThatGuy says:

        …because it’s the lesser of two evils? I personally don’t mind Steamworks as I use Steam a lot and seem to be one of the lucky few who haven’t fallen on hard times with their offline mode, but I can 100% understand the complete no DRM stance.

        But it’s like the difference between a swift kick to the gonads and a gunshot to the knee. I’d go for the swift kick, despite my reservations about both. No DRM would be amazing, but nowadays it’s just not going to happen unless GOG has more impact (which I really hope they do, TW2 with no DRM is something else, effortless and I love it).

        • HothMonster says:

          The thing that bothers me in these arguments is that steam isn’t by default DRM. There are games that you can buy on steam and launch through the games .exe without steam running. Including steamworks DRM on a steam game is a devs choice as is any other DRM they want to put on. But sometimes steam is merely a store and a game has no DRM even if it is on steam.

          • Mistabashi says:

            Yeah, at some point people started saying “Steam is a DRM” and everyone started believing it.

            As for this petition, I’m afraid it’s probably a lost cause, if they’re advertising it as a GfWL game then they’ve already signed the contract, they can’t just change their minds on a whim.

          • Khemm says:

            All Steamworks games are DRM’d. Just because a few (mostly small indie) games have Steamworks SUPPORT (like LA Noire and Batman on Steam) doesn’t doesn’t change anything. When you take advantage of Steamworks, you have to use Stem DRM, too.

          • HothMonster says:

            Khemm, that is not true.

            EDIT: Old news but ill leave this here anyway http://imgur.com/gEgah because it proves all you bitches wrong :b

          • rareh says:

            By definition steam is DRM.

          • Alexrd says:

            What? Steam is DRM by default, there is no argument there. And of course it’s the devs choice, the same way they can choose GfWL if they want to.

            I won’t sign that childish petition. First, because it’s a stupid Steam apologist petition (and Steam is less intrusive? Last time I checked, being dependable of third party servers and making you install a third party software is very intrusive). And second, with GfWL at least there is a chance that it doesn’t make you dependable of an internet connection to install and play a game that you legally paid for.

          • HothMonster says:

            By definition steam is a store. If you can buy a game on steam and then launch it through the exe with steam closed there is no drm. While it is not the majority case it is an option devs have. If you are arguing that is drm the gog is drm, hell then best buy is drm and credit cards are drm.

            I understand most games on steam use steamworks drm or another drm but that is not a requirement to use steamworks or be on steam.

            I am also not arguing that saying get rid of gfwl and replace it with steam makes any sense. It should just say get rid of gfwl.

            The fallacy that anything on steam is automajically drmed just annoys me. Steamworks is a multi-faceted API. DRM is one option that is available when using the API but is not a requirment to use the other parts of the API.

          • apocraphyn says:

            Steam is, in 99% of cases, DRM. Sure, there are times when they don’t tie the programs into Steam – remember the brief period where Skyrim wasn’t leadened down with Steam’s shackles? Ah, that was a wonderful time. But that’s not the norm.

            It is the lesser evil between itself and GFWL, but it’s still an evil. The people who made that petition are only hurting themselves by tying themselves to Steam – I would have considered signing if it weren’t for the mention of it, and I’m sure many others would have, too.

          • RavenGlenn says:

            I’ve never understood the hate for Steam some folks have. In most cases, I can only come to the conclusion that the person just refuses to have to sign up for anything, kicking and stamping their feet in protest.

            I’ve been using it for quite a long time, and pretty much buy all my PC games through it at this point. It’s a hell of a lot more convenient than having a mound of PC boxes, not being able to find my damn discs, having to change discs everytime I want to play something, having to track down my CD keys, etc. Not to mention the massive sales and cheaper prices, linked together with friend support and chatting in-game.

            I have 198 games on my Steam account and will continue to buy more with no fear that I’m somehow getting screwed. I’ve been having a grand, secure, reliable time for years now.

            GFWL is an entirely different ballgame. That service just plain bites. You can’t login half the time, or get kicked. Hell, sometimes it just plain refuses to launch or load or work at all on a system. The whole thing is an archaic and terrible system that has no place still being used.

      • Premium User Badge

        Wisq says:

        Because if we don’t suggest they use Steamworks, they’ll undoubtedly manage to choose something even worse than GFWL, like Gamespy. Murphy’s Law and all that.

    • Luciphear says:

      I rarely sign these types of things, but this one I did. It’s for the game’s own sake. GFWL is a death sentence… GoG, Origin, Steam, Direct2Drive, anything is better than GFWL..

      Anyway. Signed.

    • Ny24 says:

      I really appreciate GFWL. Gonna get me some achievements! ;)

    • Arnulf says:

      I can understand the resistance.

      On the other hand Dark Souls needs a multiplayer component. That From Software chose a system that’s already there and have probably used in a similar form for the X360 version is weighing much more. Also: achievements.

      GFWL may not be ideal, but it’s almost on par with Steam now (it’s changed through the last iterations). I prefer GFWL over Origin any day (or GameSpy for that matter).

      What I’m more concerned about is that they added content. As a console only player I’d be pissed about that now.

      • Slaadfax says:

        I think a lot of people would be more okay with GFWL if they just fixed the save corruption thing, and maybe streamlined the idiotic updating process. It is *NOT FUN* to lose anywhere between 30-60 hours of your gameplay just because for some reason they decide the save games which are still *actually on your hard drive* are just not good enough anymore.

  2. Premium User Badge

    dangermouse76 says:

    Can GFWL be effectively removed or is it a total ass hat to do ?

    • Fwiffo says:

      It depends on what functionality the game uses. In Fallout 3, for example,it could be completely bypassed, but most games with online features are lumbered with it.

      • Vorphalack says:

        Fallout 3 remains the only GFWL game I have bought since Bioshock for that very reason. Unless someone can come out with a similar disable, I wont be touching Dark Souls with a 10 foot pole. Was really looking forward to this as well, not gonna gamble £35 on a game that might not even run.

      • HothMonster says:

        Yeah, for instance BatmanAC & AA single player game saves are encrypted and then decrypted when signing into GFWL

    • DXN says:

      I presume GfWL will be used for the multiplayer aspects of the game, which are pretty important but not necessarily essential. So,if you can do without them, I’m sure a GfWL-removal hack will be popping up at some point.

    • DK says:

      The original doesn’t HAVE GFWL, so it’s about “is it a hassle to remove”. It’s about WHY THE FUCK would you implement it in the first place.

      • adonf says:

        @DK The original has Xbox Live. GFWL is the PC version of XBL, I suppose that it’s very simple to port from one to the other, maybe as simple as hitting the ‘Compile’ button.

  3. ZIGS says:

    Maybe GFWL is supposed to be one of the new bosses?

    • DiGi says:

      Hehe, epic :-D

      “Download game update”, “Download GfWL update (next level is for x64 OS)”, “Your country is not supported” and hardest “You just lost your saves. AGAIN.”

    • Suits says:

      Thanks for relieving me of misfortune for a couple of seconds with that comment.

  4. Ed123 says:

    Welp, there goes my purchase.

  5. Suits says:

    Where does it say GFWL?

  6. derbefrier says:

    Damn, still gonna buy it though. I have never had any issues with gfwl other than ot being annoying, but I was an xbot for years so maybe I have just gotten used to it. Kinda sad though now everyone will pirate it and we will never see another dark souls game on pc again.

  7. caddyB says:

    Good job. Not buying it then.

    • Khemm says:

      Thanks for no help.

      • Unaco says:

        Maybe… this will be for the best. We want their games on PC, yes. But, I would think, we want their games done well on PC. We don’t want throw-away ports with no or little consideration given to what gets tacked on to them, and what options and PC specific stuff we get. They know there’s a market, clammering for their game on PC (the first petition told them that). If they see how that market evaporates when they make decisions like this, maybe (hopefully) they’ll stop making decisions like this.

        If they do their PC versions shoddily, then they won’t get far. Do them well though and get it right, and people will be willing to throw their money at them.

        • Khemm says:

          Capcom uses GFWL and their ports are STELLAR. You’re not making any sense.

          • Unaco says:

            But, this is coming from Namco… not CAPCOM. CAPCOM may use GFWL and it may be stellar. A whole load more devs/publishers use it and it’s less than stellar. CAPCOM getting it right is no guarantee that Namco/From Software will get it right. Does that make sense?

          • pkt-zer0 says:

            The online matchmaking part of things in SF4, you know, the thing that actually relies on GfWL? It’s garbage and a major pain in the ass. The rest, sure, it’s pretty good. Would be nice if you didn’t have to suffer through GfWL though.

          • Phantoon says:

            I’ve never heard anyone praise Capcom’s ports before.

            Probably because the ports are bad.

            What, did Gaben run your dog over or something?

          • Khemm says:

            @Phantoon
            Dude… stop living in 2006. Just because the last Capcom game you played was RE4 or DMC3 from half a decade ago doesn’t mean you know anything about Capcom’s efforts since 2009. So, please stop saying their ports are “bad”, because you’re misinforming people.

          • HothMonster says:

            Yes, he is the one spreading misinformation…

          • Slaadfax says:

            So is this guy both a Games For Windows Live AND Japanese publisher apologist? “Capcom has made great decisions…”

            That pretty much says it all. Capcom has been struggling to achieve mediocrity in the last few years. What, did you also think Konami really *did* make a great decision by releasing three Silent Hill games in the same month?

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          Do you realize both this game and Demon’s Souls are niche titles in the industry? As in, Demon’s Souls was incredibly close to never being released anywhere outside of Japan at all?

          Keep those expectations realistic. We’re not talking about EA or Activision, we’re talking about a small dev with a pretty complex online multiplayer component whose backend probably relies a lot on the XBL format. From is a pretty small dev, and if you would’ve told me Namco (the people who are famous for refusing to translate, not port, translate games they already made) told From Software to make a PC version (wat) of Dark Souls (WAT!) based on an internet petition (WAT THE FUCKING FUCK) I would’ve told you you’re out of your mind. Going back and pissing that it’s got GFWL is like having sirloin steak fall out of the sky only for you to loudly complain the silver fork it came with was scratched.

          Trust me, I dislike GFWL as much as the next guy, but come on. This is the last studio that we should be demanding they cater to the intricacies of PC development. Let’s save the dignified whining to truly lazy publishers/devs like EA.

          • Phantoon says:

            Are you talking about FROM, or Namco?

          • Pointless Puppies says:

            I’m talking about both, really. FROM is a modest developer who makes relatively niche titles even in the console side of the industry and hasn’t done a PC game since King’s Field (though I might be wrong on that one). Namco’s frequently referred to as “Scamco” for their assholish tendencies to be horribly fickle about what games they want to release in what platforms and even when the games are done they wrinkle their nose at translating for specific regions for no good reason. The publisher side of the industry laughs off internet petitions, but for some reason Namco decided to roll with it, and had FROM (who, again, hasn’t done a PC game in a very long time), do a quick PC port in a few months. This alone is really beyond the wildest dreams of port beggars everywhere.

            It’s also important to note that the Souls games in particular are a series where the adjective “barely” was used multiple times. FROM barely had Demon’s Souls published for regions outside Japan, they barely kept the servers of that game alive for several years (they just announced today they’re finally shutting down for good at the end of May :’( ), the sequel was barely greenlit, and now it got barely ported over to the PC. And yet the games are fucking fantastic and deserving of every praise they get. They really shouldn’t be held to the same “GFWL=NO SALE!!!” standards that we hold with, say, EA, who definitely do have the power to rewrite netcode at will but choose simply not to because they want to save a couple of bucks. What we’re getting with Dark Souls are really extraordinary circumstances, it’s silly to dismiss this ENTIRE effort simply because FROM chose to use the online API that’s easiest for them. I say they should totally use it if it means they get to put out the game on the PC.

          • Premium User Badge

            Wisq says:

            There are, unfortunately, some of us who have had such terrible experiences with GFWL — often just for singleplayer games — that we will never go near it again.

            To extend your analogy: sirloin steak falls from the sky … but it happens to be rancid. Dream becomes nightmare due to one small change.

          • Khemm says:

            @Wisq
            Except the problem with many people is they tried GFWL years ago and keep repeating arguments which might have been true a year or two, but aren’t anymore. It’s like saying “my experience with Steam was so bad with Half Life2 I refuse to use that service anymore”.

            I’m not saying some people aren’t having problems even today, it’s unfortunate some oddities still happen, but until someone shows me some statictics explicitly showing that the number of people having troubles with Origin or GFWL is higher than the legion of folks constantly having issues with Steam, I’ll keep saying Origin/GFWL hate is blown out of proportion.

          • Xan says:

            @Khemm First impressions are important.

          • HothMonster says:

            @khemm

            where are the stats that show legions of people are constantly having problems with Steam? You had problems with steam so are quick to accept the fact that everyone else’s problems with steam are current and legion. You have never had problems with GFWL therefore everyone else is either stupid or making shit up.

            I have had steam since its inception and never had any problems worth speaking of. I have had 3 gfwl games and they have all been a pain in my ass and the last one erased 60 hours worth of saves. So I am done with it. I manage to not call everyone who doesn’t like steam a liar or an idiot though.

            These are not year old dead problems people are talking about. Save game deletion still happens, update problems still happen, it still constantly links to broken/dead webpages, and customer support is still may as well be non-existent.

          • Slaadfax says:

            Yep, save game decryption corruption is still an issue, as well as clunky interface, the same updating issues, and of course GFWL customer service remains pretty much nonexistent.

            Where are these miraculous improvements?

            On other subjects: it’s actually very beneficial to release niche titles on digital distribution platforms. The ability to price them far below retail and have mega-sales means that there’s a large potential for audiences to purchase and try it out without spending the 40-60 dollars.

            Not needing fabrication of materials and shipping also cuts down massively on the cost of distribution as well.

            However, if the game gets a 70 on Metacritic because the port is bad and the multiplayer doesn’t function because of poor netcode, then the game will *definitely* not sell as well as it could have otherwise.

      • caddyB says:

        I was very excited to get it on PC, but I don’t want to throw money on them when I’m not sure how good it will run on my computer because of GFWL. I had a lot of problems with that piece of borderline malware and I won’t touch it. Same goes for Origin.

  8. pkt-zer0 says:

    Where did they say it was GFWL? Can’t find a source for that. Kind of crappy, if true. GFWL’s terrible reputation will do more harm to the game than its actual lack of features and poor implementation, though, I’d say.

    • Khemm says:

      GFWL and Origin’s reputation is a direct result of a vocal group of Steam fanatics labelling everything that isn’t made by Valve as “crap” rather than the quality of these two services.
      They aren’t flawless, but neither is Steam.

      • Premium User Badge

        RobF says:

        No it isn’t. Stop being barmy.

      • ThatGuy says:

        Yes because it’s only Valve fans that enjoy retaining saves of games they’ve put fucktonnes of hours into. I suppose frequenters of GFWL games have become accustomed to it and have adopted it as a new difficulty, that random chance of “Does my gamesave still exist?”, a fun past-time for any gamer.

        Except Valve fans, apparently. Nailed it in one, Khemm.

        • Khemm says:

          Because people have TOTALLY not been reporting that Steam Cloud corrupts their saves and some Steam games TOTALLY let you backup saves (example:Space Marine).

          • jalf says:

            SO your argument is that because there is *one* game on Steam which behaves stupidly, and because of possible bugs that *sometimes* causes you to lose a savegame, that means it’s ok for GFWL to *consistently* lose your savegames in *any* game *all* the time. By design…

            Sorry, but you have to be a pretty radical fanboy to see that one.

            Besides, I don’t see the relevance of Steam *at all*. We’re not saying “Steam is the solution to all our worries, Steam can do no wrong”. We’re saying “GFWL sucks. In countless ways”. The fact that Steam *also* sucks doesn’t change that at all. Why would “Steam sucks” be an argument for forgiving GFWL its flaws?

          • Milky1985 says:

            ERM GFWL has not been consistantly losing save games. Please show eviedence for this.

            I know batman lost saves, but this was patched out BY THE DEVELOPER.

            If something is patched out by the developer then its logical to think that hte developer was doing something wrong in the first sodding place.

            Also it was occasionally, i love how much GFWL hate there is that the od case of it happening has changed to constistantly

          • Khemm says:

            “SO your argument is that because there is *one* game on Steam which behaves stupidly,”

            It’s called AN EXAMPLE. I have no idea how to back up my Space Marine saves and there have been reports of new Steamworks games suffering from the same problem – which means the “GFWL doesn’t let me back up my saves” argument will lose its merit soon.

            “and because of possible bugs that *sometimes* causes you to lose a savegame, that means it’s ok for GFWL to *consistently* lose your savegames in *any* game *all* the time. By design…”

            Biased much? Plenty of people have never had these issues. SOMETIMES Steam fucks something up and SOMETIMES GFWL fucks something up.

          • HothMonster says:

            Right and after steam fucks up too much for a single person they stop using it. You have no problem with that as you are a steam basher yourself. But if someone has had their fill of problems with GFWL their complaint is invalid and they are being stupid and childish?

            As far your warhammer saved game it should be in “\Steam\userdata\10613168\55150\remote” not having local saves in a logical spot is the devs fault though not steams. Though steams cryptic folder tree is their own stupid fault.

      • jalf says:

        Er, no. I’m not really a fan of Steam, but GFWL is an abomination. It really is a big pile of poop.

        Origin is actually a very reasonable service IMO. The client is pretty slick, and unlike GFWL, the service *doesn’t get in your way*.

        But GFWL? I have *nothing* positive to say about it.

      • NorfTehBarbarian says:

        Holy fuck… You’re an idiot.

      • gritz says:

        Yes, that must be why GOG is struggling so terribly.

        • Khemm says:

          People on GOG are pretty anti-Steam too, so what’s your argument again?

      • caddyB says:

        Or it might have something to do with personally having zero problems while running Steam games but lots and lots with the other two.

        There’s nothing fanboyish about choosing the stuff that actually works on my personal computer, as a personal decision.

      • zakihashi says:

        You’re almost right here, GFWL have gotten it’s reputation on it’s own, because it’s pretty half ass’d and unreliable. Origins however, is rabid Steam fanbois fault alone. If you accept Steam you sure has hell must accept Origin, nothing wrong with Origin if you put Steam at it’s side, it probably even got less issues. Like selling you games, but not having cd keys(as steam often do), you’re games er never unreliable that you buy there. Is it got a working offline mode.
        I’d rather have Origin then GFWL, and I rather not have Origin nor Steam, sell it on Steam, GWFL, and Origin, but let me buy it on Gamersgate, d2d, Impulse or whatever, without being forced to use Steam or Origin or whatever it is you want to force on people, give me a clean game where I don’t need unessesery things like Steam or GFWL.

      • rareh says:

        This is 100% true. Glad someone had the guts to call out all the valve fanboys.
        I personally had no problems with gfwl or origin, while with steam i had a lot over the years.
        Funny when someone says 1 reasonable thing against valve or steam 100 people come with nonsense.
        While with other companies u can say any shit u want even if its completely unreasonable.

      • MDefender says:

        GFWL is a hassle but I’m not getting up in arms over it not going the steam route. Not every game benefits from that treatment, in fact it’s often the opposite that occurs in many small ways.
        I’m still just glad I don’t have to cave and buy a PSTriple for this game, really. Saved me the horrid indignity of purchasing overpriced, mostly redundant hardware and being quietly judged by the internet’s malignant, vigilant scrutiny.

        • Screamer says:

          Overprised? I’d say its probably the best time now to buy a PS3, they are dirt cheap now, and get all the games that never got or ever will get to PC. Uncharted, RDD, Heavy Rain….quite a few that really make it worth it. And of course Dark Souls

      • Milky1985 says:

        You were doing well until you attributed the bad rep to steam fanatics. Now you just sound (like in all of your posts) like a steam hater who wants to bash steam somehow.

  9. shiromar says:

    I have to ask, Why? It seems obvious to me and my fellow pc gamers that we dont want GFWL yet they still include it, why?

    We get nothing out of it does Namco get anything from MS for this?

    • CMaster says:

      Namco get a system that they can probably plug in in the place of XBL without any notable changes.

      • shiromar says:

        Batman and the like got GFWL out of laziness? Considering the debacle that was dx11 and deleting saves thanks to GFWL on Batman. I still don’t get why they dont receive clue ; /

        • HothMonster says:

          No Batman got it because WB uses it on all their games, because they are clueless and stupid. I am sure Rocksteady hates it. Batman doesn’t really need to worry about netcode, its just leaderboards they did it because of WB.

      • iDragon says:

        Yeah, sadly, it’s probably being done because it’s the cheapest/easiest option, requiring fewest code changes.

    • Underwhelmed says:

      If I had to make a random guess, it is because it is an existing system, that the original version of the game already used (though we are talking the 360 version) and will serve as a means to keep some semblance of order over the online masses and prevent the rampant cheating and hacking you get with a lot of PC games that allow for anonymous users.

      I’m not saying that this was a good choice, GFWL is at best, a bit of a mess.

  10. MatW says:

    Of three GFWL games that I’ve bought, only one has worked properly.

    Ironically, Bulletstorm was the only one that went without any trouble.

    • Kodeen says:

      Of the 4 GFWL games I’ve played, 4 have worked properly.

      • rei says:

        Of the 1 GfWL titles I’ve bought 1 has worked properly, but it was such a pain in the ass that I will never buy another game that uses the system.

    • Adekan says:

      I’ve owned 4 games with GFWL.

      Grand Theft Auto 4, which at one point had GFWL completely stop working and would not allow me to play the game at all. GFWL then had to be reinstalled to play the game.

      Fallout 3 in which I never actually had to log in to GFWL to use ( Thanks Bethesda! )

      Dirt 2 which beside the constant annoyance of having to restart my computer to update their useless GFWL software every time I wanted to play, seemingly worked fine.

      Dirt 3 which I got for free with my video card and never actually installed because I don’t want to deal with GFWL any longer.

      It offers me no services I would ever use, I don’t even own a console so half of the crap they are trying to peddle has no value to me ( If you want people to take your platform seriously, don’t patronize them by making it use everything from the Xbox live system including sharing login/support website ). It is completely devoid of purpose except as extremely obnoxious DRM to me. I will actively avoid titles with GFWL.

      • Khemm says:

        GFWL has been improved since then, you know? Besides, what OS do you use?

        • jalf says:

          Improved? How? When? I’ve seen several updates, but none that offered actual *improvements. You’ll have to be more specific.

      • pkt-zer0 says:

        re: Dirt 2. It uses encrypted savegames, couldn’t manage to get them to load in Win7 after upgrading from WinXP. Fun times.

        • HothMonster says:

          All the GFWL games encrypt there saves, have to protect the useless gamerscore system after all, when you back up your saved games you also have to back up a cookie that GFWL saves in your appdata folder. If you move that to the new install and sign in with the same profile there is a 80% chance your saves will still work. Ahhh features!

  11. Premium User Badge

    Stellar Duck says:

    And here was be being slightly interested in the game. I’ve no idea about what the game is, but all the constant talk about it made me curious. Looked like something I might enjoy. Not now.

  12. whexican says:

    Dammit…now I have to run a cracked exe to bypass GFWL like I did for Fallout 3.

    • HothMonster says:

      While that is fine in a SP game like fallout, multiplayer in DS is much more essential.

  13. allanschnorr says:

    I was planning to buy it day one, but if the GFWL part is true, I’ll only buy it for $10 or less.

  14. alundra says:

    Cheer up, they need an expiatory sacrifice in case it fails, they will blame piracy and those evil (and bitchy) PC gamers.

    • lordfrikk says:

      Exactly what I thought. This situation makes me sad, because while I will probably buy it it’s going to be bogged down by GFWL. Funny how both GTA4 and Batman AA were constantly refusing to log me in and when they did let me in the service was getting disconnected every 5 minutes or so. I so hope to fuckin god they will change their mind.

  15. Paul says:

    I am buying it no matter what because I want more From games on PC, but GFWL still sucks and I still hope they will reconsider. If not, then I at least hope GFWL will somehow works well and will not destroy my saves or something like that.

    • Khemm says:

      Thanks for being at least partly reasonable instead of behaving like a retard.

    • Ganjatron says:

      I’ve never had issues with GFWL, and I use an offline account. I also would like to thank you for giving the first level headed remark in here.

    • Necroscope says:

      I am buying this regardless of GFWL or steamworks or other setup. Worked fine with batman:arkham city and sf4. I’ve no complaints at all. I don’t like intrusive drm that causes the game to load slowly or stutter or crash. That’s quite infuriating. That’s the kind of bullshit I would demonstrate with other PC gamers against and be vocal about it, but I can’t say I’ve had problems myself with GFWL so….I’m buying it and am feeling happy to support the devs.

    • Enso says:

      Same. I will buy multiple copies if they bring me Armored Core.

    • Pointless Puppies says:

      Same here. I don’t like GFWL, but it’s a necessary evil. The fact we’re even getting this is nothing short of a miracle, so I don’t know exactly where people are coming from decrying this PC port simply because of GFWL.

  16. Unaco says:

    “Shame it’s going to be burdened by GFWL, which – while highly obnoxious and certainly worthy of discouragement – shouldn’t be the sole reason droves of people steer clear of a wonderful game.”

    After the reaction to Epic’s recent announcements about Bulletstorm and its cancelled sequel, I can’t imagine this being said with a straight face… unless it’s followed up by some silence and then “Right guys? Guys… Guys!? Where did you get those pitchforks!?”

    GFWL doesn’t put me off… I’ve not encountered it much (Batman AA, FO3 – easily removed/avoided, and Bulletstorm), but it’s never caused me any more grief beyond an extra 5 minutes on install. It’s not great… I’ve never been glad to have it on a game, and I’m kind of confused as to what it actually does… but I’ve never seen it as an abomination. I know many, many people do though… So I feel for them.

    However, some of the other news I’ve been hearing (graphics, key binding) has me concerned, worried even, that they aren’t going about this whole port thing as I would like, and I feel we deserve.

    • Wild_Marker says:

      I used to think like you. Untill I lost my Arkham City save game. 30 hours in. THIRTY. HOURS.

      Oh and also, GFWL games can’t be sold on steam in some countries (like mine). I never understood why, it’s really weird, but I know it’s exclusively a GFWL thing. To get Batman I actually had to exchange it via Steam Trade.

      • ThatGuy says:

        That’s bad, man. I mean I’ve lost more, but Batman was a better game. My GFWL just ate up my Gears of Wars game, the first one back when it was new.

        My account doesn’t have it, my code repeatedly informs me it’s used (by me!) and so I can never play it. Still don’t know if it’s a good game or not. 2 sequels later I’d imagine the first was at least competent.

    • Archonsod says:

      Not only is it clunky as hell, but it has a tendency of demanding you patch the game or quit. Which in itself wouldn’t be so bad, if it wasn’t for the fact that it has a tendency to incrementally patch rather than doing the whole thing at once (although given the download rate it has is only marginally faster than IP over avian carrier that might be understandable).
      Install a slightly older game and you’ll spend most of your night waiting for GFWL to update itself, then update the game repeatedly, and then if you’re lucky it’ll actually let you run it. After deleting all your saves and profile because one of the updates rendered older profiles incompatible.

      And that’s when it actually works. When it fails, such as say by botching a patch install, your only solution is usually to spend a few hours eradicating all traces of the game and GFWL from your system and go for a reinstall. At which point the cycle begins again …

  17. QSpec says:

    Spoiler alert:

    The game won’t sell as well as expected due to GFWL.

    Industry uses it as an example as to why they don’t develop for the PC.

    • Khemm says:

      People who claim they’re not going to buy it were never interested in buying this in the first place, so no big loss here.
      Even if it was a Steamworks title, they would say “awesome, will pick it up when it’s 75% off”.

      GFWL is not perfect, but it’s not a deal-breaker. To claim otherwise is absurd and reeks of Steam fanboyism.

      • Phantoon says:

        It is a deal-breaker, and I was going to buy it.

        Why are you always so nasty?

      • Premium User Badge

        Stellar Duck says:

        Look man, Steam is generally highly annoying and the costumer service is a fucking joke. The offline mode as well. I can tolerate it, but it does mean that I don’t buy games at full price if they’re Steamworks. I view it as a reason for me to knock off the price.
        I do most of my game purchases on GamersGate or gog.com. (if a GamersGate game has Steam I also wait for a drop.)

        But GFWL is even worse, so for me it’s a deal breaker. Annoying as Steam may be, I’ve never had to spend hours and hours figuring out how to make a game run. And it has never eaten my saves.

        • Khemm says:

          How? Really, how? You must have pirated Windows being a total mess, probably stll use XP, or don’t have GFWL properly installed (NET3.5, Windows Live Essentials installed, Windows Live ID service running), you don’t have ports opened or something along those lines.
          GFWL works on all three computers I installed it on with no tinkering.

          • Unaco says:

            Good for you Khemm. And Steam works perfectly for me, on the 4 PCs I have it installed on… so you must just be using Steam wrong. Right?

          • QSpec says:

            I just don’t see the point in having an inferior product installed on my computer.

          • Premium User Badge

            Stellar Duck says:

            Not that you’ll believe it, I’m sure, but I’m running 64 bit Win7 (Ultimate at that, expensive though it was). Ditched XP back in 2008 for Vista and then ditched Vista in 2010 or something. All bought and paid for (though XP and Vista were OEM versions).

            And really, why on earth wouldn’t I have updated those pieces of software? And ports open? Really? Since when was that a good reason for something not to work? In any case, they are.

            But I guess it’s just me being a pirate. You’d know what I do after all.

            Full disclosure: the game that wasn’t working properly was Red Faction Gorilla. And the saves that got eaten was the ones for Arkham City. I believe I’m not alone in having that happen in AC. But I guess we’re all just running pirated XP.

          • Khemm says:

            @Stellar Duck
            Oh don’t be so butthurt now, I’m not accusing you of anything, just wondering if people reporting problems with GFWL have something in common, like Live ID not running.

          • Malk_Content says:

            Any piece of software that requires me to go online and search for a solution to get it to patch itself is a poor piece of software (Bulletstorm). Any piece of software that after loading up a game, finding I require a patch to continue (to GFWL, not the game) makes me close down the game (reasonable), restart my computer (semi reasonable) reload the game only to find it has applied 1/3 of the patch and I’ll need to do that twice more, is a poor piece of software. Any piece of software that requires me to enter it’s directory folder to find my save games, to move them to a different folder just so it can find them when offline (GTA4) is a shite piece of software. Any piece of software that does this and offers me no additional benefits, not even the guarentee of a good matchmaking system (DOW2, Gotham) really shouldn’t exist.

            @ Khemm specifically.
            Also note how you are always the first person to bring up Steam in these discussions. All the above are flaws with GFWL that are common with every release that comes laden with it, none of them are me endorsing Steam or being a fanboy. Also I was going to buy the game, despite the fact I already own it on the PS3, purely to encourage the move. GFWL is absolutely 100% a lost sale from me as I will not support a move that is a bad choice for the gamer.

          • Premium User Badge

            Stellar Duck says:

            @Khemm

            “Oh don’t be so butthurt now, I’m not accusing you of anything[...]”

            “You must have pirated Windows being a total mess, probably stll use XP[...]”

            Nah, no accusations there.

          • Khemm says:

            @Stellar
            FFS, stop it. I’m not a native speaker, I should have written something along the lines of “it might be a result of” instead of “you might/must have”.
            People get offended way too easily these days. Internet, sigh.

          • Jim9137 says:

            The best armor is not the one that can be worn at will, but laden with trains as needed.

          • Asuron says:

            You seem to have a clear enough understanding of the language to right paragraph after paragraph about why you hate Steam for asinine reasons and to insult people with it.

            I find it almost funny how you jump so quickly to hostility and then back off like a scared rabbit when someone calls you on it. Back that up with your hilarious “arguments” about why Steam is bad and why your right about everything you argue for reasons that don’t make sense and it starts becoming actually funny.

            If you want to ignore GFWL long and noted history of not working for consumers who try to use it, then what is there left to say to you? You would rather deny reality than face the cold , hard truth of you being wrong

      • Farkeman says:

        of course it’s a deal breaker , I like my games to work when I buy them…

      • daq says:

        I’ve had trouble with every single GFWL game I ever played – so yes, it is indeed a dealbreaker for me. I dont much care if it is Steamworks or the like, but I won’t buy a GFWL title. I’d prefer it being on Origin exclusively over GFWL.

      • Archonsod says:

        Really? Cuz GFWL is a deal breaker for me, and I’d say Steamworks is a deal breaker too. So that’s that theory blown out of the water.

      • ThatGuy says:

        Do you see everything in black and white? Every post of yours on here regarding DRM has this line, where it’s either like GFWL or be a Steam fanboy.

        Not the most mature mindset to take really, is it? Some people tolerate Steam because of deals and handy services, the shitty DRM is just a side-effect, GFWL is just intolerable from every side of the fence with no upsides, and I say that with a fair amount of GFWL titles myself (-1 actually since it decided it didn’t want me to own Gears of War anymore).

      • HothMonster says:

        Dealbreaker for me. I guess Ill go and pick up a used copy for my netflix box, finally. I got re-excited about this and was going to day 1 purchase.

      • zaprowsdower says:

        “reeks of Steam fanboyism.”

        Good job repeating the same statement OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN in this thread.

      • Mordsung says:

        GFWL is an objectively inferior set of tools on the PC.

        Steam, and even Origin, does everything GFWL does but does them better, with interfaces designed for PC instead of brought over directly from the console.

        There is not one thing GFWL does even on par with other similar offerings.

        Even taking it’s stability issues completely off the table. Even taking the fact you have to pay MS points to change your online name. Ignoring those two points completely, GFWL is still an inferior system.

        The value of their product has diminished due to the use of this inferior system.

        This isn’t even opinion. I could put a side-by-side comparison of GFWL’s features beside nearly any similar system and show GFWL to be the inferior of the two.

        • Khemm says:

          GFWL would be actually awesome if it had the interface from the console – because currently it uses its own.
          When GFWL launched, its UI was very fast, intuitive, nice looking – a direct copy of the 360 UI, but it worked perfectly fine. Then in 2007 or so they changed it to this clunky one.

          • Mordsung says:

            You and I have completely different ideas of what a good UI is.

            The 360′s UI, and this comes from someone who worked for Xbox 360 customer support for 3 long, tired years, is a monumental piece of shit.

            The new GFWL UI was actually a minor improvement, but it was like a layer of icing on a cake of shit.

            Let’s talk about GFWL customer support, considering I sat 2 rows down from these gents, for a moment.

            Let’s ignore the fact most of the actual individuals working for GFWL support couldn’t tell you the difference between a router and a modem and go right to the meat. I’m about to give you inside insight to how GFWL support works, as it works somewhat similarly to Xbox support and actually generally hires it’s people directly from the lower tiers of Xbox support.

            These people, when faced with a problem, go online to forums, mostly the Steam forums, and basically repackage player solutions as GFWL solutions.

            I worked in Xbox 360 Corporate Support, meaning I dealt with either very abused customers, ones on their 4th or 5th console, or important members of the games press and other such people. I, occasionally, got GFWL problems through the corporate support email. I had guy after guy after guy get so frustrated with GFWL support that they’d email advocate@microsoft.com and eventually end up in my court. Most of these problems required about 30 seconds to a minute of me thinking about it, as I was a PC gamer, not a console gamer, I actually knew how a PC functioned.

            GFWL is inferior on the end-user side, and it is inferior on the support side. I know the mouth breathers who work for GFWL. I was forced to converse with these people. They’re only a few steps above primates.

      • RavenGlenn says:

        Dear lord…do you work for GFWL Khemm? That’s about the only reason I can come up with for your vitriolic hate on Steam and overwhelming love and praise for GFWL. The overwhelming majority are in total opposition to you, but you just keep on trucking, don’t you?

        • Brun says:

          From reading Khemm’s comments (and some comment conversations with him), it seems that he hates Steam so much because he has a slow and/or unreliable internet connection and as a result downloading and installing games with Steam (or Origin, or similar client) is a pain in the ass for him. That, and he resents having to install through Steam even if he buys a retail disk.

          No product or service is ever going to satisfy all of its users. Khemm is just one of those edge cases for which Steam doesn’t work too well – through no fault of Khemm’s. But Steam isn’t really at fault either. It works quite well and is (compared to Origin, GFWL, and some forms of UbiDRM) much slicker and less obtrusive.

          I, like many others in this thread, would prefer Steam over GFWL. Of course, I would prefer no DRM over Steam, but I’m trying to be realistic here. Namco is a console publisher – the PC is a foreign environment for them and they’re going to have some form of DRM whether we like it or not. Out of all of the DRM I’ve used, Steam is the least obtrusive – bar a few issues with Steam Cloud eating save games, I’ve had no problems with it. That seems to be the case for the vast majority of other Steam users. I can understand Khemm’s frustration with Steam, since it’s essentially being forced upon him despite the fact that – for him – it doesn’t work well. But his failure to acknowledge that he is, in fact, an unusual case makes him seem like a troll.

  18. Premium User Badge

    oceanclub says:

    Have to say, I’ve never had any real problems with GFWL so it won’t put me off. The fact it’s hard-as-nails might… naw, I’m intrigued enough to get it.

    P.

    • Spacecraft says:

      I’m the same way. I don’t get this hate.

    • Khemm says:

      I would buy this even if it had Steamworks, and everyone knows I don’t like the service. BECAUSE I’M ECSTATIC THIS GAME IS COMING TO PC AT ALL.
      That means GFWL haters are even more childish than they accuse ME of being.

      • Phantoon says:

        Except Steamworks isn’t as bad as GFWL.

        So that’s a false comparison.

      • Fincher says:

        Since when was sticking to your guns about lame DRM being childish? Shouldn’t abandoning your morals at the sight of a shiny game be the childish choice?

        Of course, that’s more akin to a magpie.

        There are reasons people don’t take the video game consumer base seriously, one of them being that half of them are so deluded and wavering.

      • Shooop says:

        People don’t accuse you of being childish, they accuse you of being a pathological liar and imbecile. And they’re correct.

        • Khemm says:

          Oh look, Steam tards resorting to name calling. Typical.

          • Fincher says:

            How very presumptuous of you, when Steam is a similar flavour of nasty DRM. Who’s to say he doesn’t support stuff like GoG or Gamersgate? Stop swinging your arms around and think.

          • Shooop says:

            The truth always strikes a raw nerve doesn’t it?

            When you’re done flailing about your room angrily in between fits of bashing your keyboard with you head, amazingly spelling out “Steam fanboy retards!” maybe you’ll have enough time to consider why you are exactly what we say and what you can do to change it. Or you could even ask us.

        • Nick says:

          Nail on the head.

      • HothMonster says:

        No you are being childish in saying “I hate this service and will never use it until something I want comes out on it then I will buckle like a……um buckle”

    • mckertis says:

      “The fact it’s hard-as-nails”

      Its not a fact, its an opinion. Go to youtube and watch LP’s of it. Its not harder than any average game. You die a lot, but you only lose money and then respawn. Some punishment. Seriously, where does this “its hard as fuck” myth comes from ?? Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is hard. And it has permadeath. Dark Souls ? Not so much, plus unlimited lives.

      • ThatGuy says:

        I don’t quite understand either, considering PC gamers have the largest collection of games to choose from, some of which are ungodly difficult without any of that bullshit difficulty why Dark Souls has suddenly picked up such infamy.

        Hell, I’ve died more in Stalker trying to get out of Garbage than I did in my entire DaS playthrough. But that’s more due to AMK than Vanilla, but still.

      • Fincher says:

        Surprisingly, watching people play is a lot easier than the actual act of playing it yourself. Difficulty and unreasonable punishment aren’t the same. Nobody would finish the game if it had permadeath.

      • Psychopomp says:

        There is nothing bullshit about Dark Souls difficulty. It is exactly as difficult as your are bad, impulsive and impatient..

  19. Eclipse says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    WHY

    WHYYY.

    I demand a new petition :(

  20. Moonshine Fox says:

    It’s absolutely HILARIOUS how terrible some distributors are. We pray on our very KNEES to get the game to PC, and they give in finally….and straddles it with the WORST matchmaking system the world has ever seen. Why? It’s been proven again, and again, and again how absolutely TERRIBLE GFWL is, and still people turn to it? There must be something really awesome dev-wise for them to turn to it. Well, guess that’s a no-buy then, because that absolutely horrible piece of crap software is just not worth it.

  21. Mordsung says:

    Went from a day 1 buy to a “Will wait till 5 bucks”.

    GFWL is unacceptable at this point. It is 2012.

  22. PleasingFungus says:

    Huh, I guess I’ll get around to picking this up on the PS3 at some point.

  23. Spacecraft says:

    I don’t understand the GFWL hate. I know it’s not great, but I’ve never had a problem with it. I actually like being able to chat with my xbox live buddies every now and then because I don’t have an xbox anymore.

    And GFWL has great matchmaking when it’s done RIGHT. The main problem is that GFWL is only ever in shoddy ports and devs put little to no effort into integrating it well into their games.

    • Phantoon says:

      You don’t understand because you’ve never had a problem with it.

      Which you said yourself. You are lucky. The rest of us? Had major problems.

      • Milky1985 says:

        Really, “Rest of us”?
        There is a lot of chouting at gfwl on here but i get the feeling its the same level of the peopel who were shouting at johnathon ross and russel brand, i mean after the daily mail ran the story.

        Basically legions of people shotuing who have NEVER HAD THE ISSUES.

        ITs simply because its microsoft, if micrsoft do something it must be bad and awful .

        Yeah sure its not the best pc implementation of things, but its no-where near as bad as people say.

    • Premium User Badge

      Crimsoneer says:

      For me, GFWL can’t update games at all. It downloads it, quits that game, then restarts the game…and asks me to update again. FOR EVERY, SINGLE, GFWL GAME. The only way to deal with the problem is go digging through my appdata to manually install the patches.

      • CMaster says:

        @Crimsoneer.
        Sounds a lot like what I had to deal with.
        Try going to xbox.com, logging in with your GFWL account details, and accepting the xbox live terms of service. I had to do this before I could even play DoW2 SP.

    • Nick says:

      I never had a huge problem with it (apart from its rather annoying clunkyness and shit updating method and terrible MP functionality), untill it ate my savegames for no apparent reason. Never again.

  24. Nameless1 says:

    WHAT THE F*CK.

  25. Aemony says:

    Well, there goes my full price purchase. I’ll wait and pick it up when it gets a sale on Steam instead.

  26. Dowson says:

    Well, they say its a difficult game.
    Having to install a patch 5 times because GFWL deletes it when it restarts and then has to redownload is quite difficult to stomach.
    As is the disconnects, failing to log in, and of course the corrupt saves.

    Its all a mechanic to make the game ultra difficult.

    • Unaco says:

      PC Gamers have demanded a more difficult, more ‘hardcore’ version than the consoles… and they’re delivering. You’ll probably also need 3rd party programs to change control pad bindings, and the inis (that you’ll need to edit manually to change any options) will all be encrypted. In Enochian.

  27. FieldOfTheBattle says:

    Oh come on stop being babies GFWL is bad but it’s not a deal breaker.

    • Eclipse says:

      last time I tried to play Arkam Asylum I spent 15 minutes just to convince it to log me in, so yeah, it’s a deal breaker.

      • CMaster says:

        It once took me an hour, and advice from a non-MS related forum to get to play Dawn of War 2 singleplayer.

      • Phantoon says:

        Want your save games when you’re not connected to the internet (even though they’re physically on your machine)? Well with GFWL, it’s easy! It’ll demand you log in and deny you your save games from when you either weren’t logged in and now are, or were logged in and now are.

        When I said easy, I mean easy to motivate you to pull your hair out.

      • FieldOfTheBattle says:

        Use offline profile.

        • Malk_Content says:

          At which point the use of GFWL is? Apart from making me spend a few seconds fiddling with the menus to go offline. Advice also only useful when you know that GFWL does something as idiotic and easily remedied (but never is) as store Online and Offline saves in a different place AND not know where to look for them, which is something you find out for the first time after it has become a problem and can quite easily forget (or assume has been fixed) when you come back to the game in 6 months time or buy a new game saddled with it.

    • Premium User Badge

      Stellar Duck says:

      It ate my Arkham City saves. And I spend a bloody age getting Dead Rising 2 to work. So yea, it’s a deal breaker.

      • Phantoon says:

        It ate my Fallout 3 save when I went to install Broken Steel. My level 20 save with oodles of stuff.

        I was not pleased about being forced to start over.

        • Premium User Badge

          Stellar Duck says:

          Ouch. My sympathies.

          Also I thought this was mildly amusing in my head:

          Dey took our saves!

      • Milky1985 says:

        No, arkham city ate your arkham city save.

        It was patched out byt he developer not though a GFWL patch, thus was much more likely something the developer did.

        But since everyone hates GFWL cause its MS and related to consoles they added 2 and 2 and got 22

        • HothMonster says:

          No GFWL did. GFWL is what encrypts and unlocks the save files, it is also what fucks up and fails to unlock and then corrupts the save files. This is not a problem limited to Batman, happened with Fallout 3 and GTA as well. Probably other games these are just the ones I have seen people bitch about the most. Because saved game encryption is mandatory if you use GFWL.

    • DiGi says:

      Sorry, it IS dealbreaker.

  28. Premium User Badge

    Oozo says:

    Wouldn’t that be the perfect occasion for that already once asked for piece on “Why you should be looking forward to Dark Souls” (even if it uses GFWL)?

  29. Premium User Badge

    RedViv says:

    And there I was, looking forward to improved multiplayer. A pitiful thought, ruined hopes for a poor lass. Blessed with a service that deletes saves and rolls dice on whether it grants lag or disconnects.

  30. Premium User Badge

    Oozo says:

    Edit: Since the first post was eaten by a gaping dragon…

    Wouldn’t that be all the more reason to write that already once before asked for post about “Why you should be looking forward to Dark Souls” (…even if it uses GFWL – it’s THAT good)?

    Oh, and, by the way: Can we talk about the CHIMERA now, please?

  31. trjp says:

    This is hilarious – it really is – the only thing worse than not having a game is having it on GFWL.

    A game with a single save – which GFWL WILL lose for you at some point – it’s just a classic.

    Actual LOL

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      Oh, SHIT. You just reminded me about GfWL’s savegame DRM and related wonkiness. Ouch.

      • Defiant Badger says:

        I think at this point the only way this game could get any more masochistic is if you had to play it with a keyboard made of rusted nails.

        • trjp says:

          In fairness, the 360 version lost my save twice (fortunately within the first 2 hours) so it’s not unique to PCs that the game will screw you over…

          It’s not a positive sign tho – the developer doesn’t have a stellar record of PC ports, adding GFWL into the mix is only going to make things uglier…

    • Pointless Puppies says:

      Yes indeed, not having the game at all is definitely better than having GFWL. /sarcasm

      Jesus, listen to yourself.

      • HothMonster says:

        If you play the game for 60 hours and it eats your save you will probably wish it didn’t exist.

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          Because that’s completely guaranteed to happen with this particular game, right? It’s not like every other game with GFWL I’ve played hasn’t done this (including infamous ones like Arkham City), or that there are plenty of GFWL games that don’t do this at all, right?

          • HothMonster says:

            “Because that’s completely guaranteed to happen with this particular game, right?”

            No, thats why the sentence starts with IF. It is a supposition; an uncertain possibility.

            IF it was guaranteed to happen I would have started the sentence with WHEN.

  32. Phantoon says:

    Welp.

    Went from wanting this, to not wanting it, and in fact wanting them to not make it.

  33. D-e-f- says:

    I’d love to know who makes these decisions and what their though process is. I REALLY want to know. Someone needs to explain to all of us why they make the choice to support GFWL … especially in 2012!

  34. Drinking with Skeletons says:

    Did no one play this game? This is exactly the kind of arduous, purposeless punishment Dark Soul embodies!

    Having to wrestle with the software itself just to install and run the game? The potential for crashes which will force you to backtrack through areas you’ve already completed? Keys permanently bound to work only for the service?

    GFWL is the perfect medium for this game.

    • Phantoon says:

      GFWL isn’t part of the game design, and there’s no victory in beating it.

      Only frustration.

      • Drinking with Skeletons says:

        It relies entirely on the user’s skill in navigating GFWL and working around its flaws and limitations.

        The victory is getting to play the game.

  35. Teddy Leach says:

    I’ve had far more problems with Steam than GFWL.

    • Phantoon says:

      Do you use Steam more than GFWL?

    • Khemm says:

      Welcome aboard.
      I wonder when was the last time people complaining about GFWL actually used it and keep judging it based on horrid ports like Bioshock 2.

      • gschmidl says:

        This year, trying out MS Flight. Flew into an apoplectic rage instead of the sky.

      • chackosan says:

        Arkham City – went into an infinite update-restart loop, and after a few attempts, I had to go to the forums, search for a while and download an external tool to trick GFWL into allowing me into the game. So that’s one less thing to wonder about.

  36. hbarsquared says:

    This actually makes a lot of sense. GFWL, disregarding its flaws, is purportedly similar to the netcode behind the Xbox 360. Since FROM doesn’t develop for PC, and is planning an August release, I don’t see why they would re-write their entire networking backend when there is a drop-in replacement for it.

    I wish GFWL wasn’t the steaming poo that it is, but this is the exact usage case it was designed for.

    • Phantoon says:

      It’s pronounced “lazy”.

      • Pointless Puppies says:

        We’re getting a PC port pretty much against all odds. The fact that Namco is practically the only major publisher in history that actually listened to an internet port begging petition, plus the fact that From is a tiny studio with a complex online infrastructure that hasn’t coded anything for PC in well over a decade gives them every reason to be a little “lazy”.

        Sometimes I wonder if gamers even know just how fucking hard it is to code games. Throwing the word “lazy” around like this makes my blood boil.

        • Khemm says:

          Some people prefer to behave like spoiled teenagers who get angry they get a yellow toy car instead of a red one for Christmas.
          And people wonder why developers, console gamers and publishers think that PC gamers are a bunch of elitist assholes. It’s because of this vocal Steam fanboy group.

          • Milky1985 says:

            For the love of god, again doing well, until that last sentence.

            The gfwl hate is not just “a steam fangroup”, its a mix of peopel who have legtimiatly had issues (a small ammount of them) and others that just hate gfwl cause its console related and microsoft.

          • chackosan says:

            If the car’s willingness to start depended on its chromatic qualities, then that analogy might make sense. Otherwise, nope.

    • Unaco says:

      Wait… GFWL was designed? Not forged in the fires of Mount Doom? Not birthed from the pit of obscenities known as Min-Uroikas/Golgotterath?

    • Reapy says:

      Yeah its clearly because they ported from xbox 360 and wanted to keep the networking stuff in. The main reason I’d go PC after I have it on 360 was for better network connectivity. Still, going to wait a bit now after release and see if pc users will dig into it and patch it out so you can get dedicated servers to leave comments on and hopefully always be stocked full of people instead of waiting 20 minutes for someone from japan to connect.

  37. Gvaz says:

    I can’t believe it, the best news has the worst news with it. This is awful.

  38. rockman29 says:

    IDIOTS!

  39. Underwhelmed says:

    What a bunch of crybabies. I bet 3 McRibs that half of the people going on about how they won’t buy it due to GFWL will either buy it within a week of launch, or wouldn’t have bought it in the first place.

    • Vorphalack says:

      Accusing others of unprovable apathy to justify your own inability to resist the next flawed shiny thing is about as low as it gets on the internet.

      • svge says:

        If that’s as bad as you think it gets on the internet, you have not traversed very far into it.

  40. MistahThorn says:

    If anyone who signed that damn petition and swore that they were going to buy it but turn their back and say that they’re not buying this game is an asshole. They spent a lot of time and money for something YOU wanted pc gamers, but when they make ONE mistake and you feel the need to boycott it, then they might be discouraged from making pc ports in the future.

    • Unaco says:

      Or, be encouraged to not make mistakes like this. There is a market for their games on PC, but they need to get their PC versions right to capitalise on that market. For myself, I’ve said, GFWL isn’t a deal-breaker… But it does smack of an ill considered port, along with news of no rebinding of keys and limited (or no) graphics options (not confirmed yet). If that’s the case and it does seem like a shoddy port, then I’m afraid I can’t support them.

      • MistahThorn says:

        I don’t care what anyone has to say about GFWL, it’s like a 16 year old getting a beat up truck for christmas, and crying that it wasn’t a Ferrari. She should be happy that she got anything. And so should everyone. I don’t have anything against your opinion however, was just further explaining mine.

        • Unaco says:

          That analogy would maybe work… If this were a gift from them. But it isn’t. We’re going to pay them for it. To use your analogy, it’s like paying for a Ferrari, but receiving a beat up truck. A truck that gets lost whenever you park it and go out of sight, and refuses to recognise your key in the ignition.

        • Premium User Badge

          Crimsoneer says:

          You do realise you’re a customer right? Not a bumbling adolescent?

          It’s pretty simply – if I think your game is worth my money, I’ll give you my money. In my experience, most Xbox 360 -> GFWL games are TERRIBLE ports. I still remember being terribly burnt by the Saints Row 2 port, so now I’m going to wait for reviews before I commit to this.

  41. Solidstate89 says:

    I’ve never once had an issue with GFWL. Not discounting the fact that others have had massive problems but it has worked flawlessly for me.

    I guess that makes me better than you.

    • chackosan says:

      More fortunate, certainly. Though probably less intelligent, judging by your logic.

  42. Premium User Badge

    Vartarok says:

    It includes a lot more things than two new bosses. In fact, all of the following:

    New Bosses – Including Artorias of Abyss, Chimera of Tomb, and more
    PVP Online Matchmaking System – Quick matching for co-op or PVP
    New Areas – Including Oolacile Tomb, Old Ruins and more
    New Enemies – Including Abyss Guard, Chained Prisoner and more
    New NPCs – Including Hawkeye Gough and more
    New Weapons and Armor – Equip some from the new bosses, enemies, and NPCs
    More details to be revealed…

    So it is clearly NOT just “a straightforward port”.

  43. Blackcompany says:

    I used to play Fuel. I still like the game. Kind of relaxing to just free roam that big open world, driving really fast and dodging trees and wrecks.

    Except…I don’t get to do that any more. See, I only play it when I am in the mood to relax. And since I first have to manage a password reset and 30 updates – each with a separate fucking reboot – for GFWL before I can play, I view Fuel as a $4.99 lesson courtesy of Steam.

    Never. Buy. GFWL games. Not. Ever.

    Now, I’m no fan of Steam either. I mean hell, this game’s been out more than a year once its released on PC. Why go DRM at all at that point. How bout gog.com and other sites, no DRM and $30. You will sell two to three times the number of games you will achieve using SFWL (figure it out, it ain’t hard.)

    I still want the game. I am going to try and steel myself to buy it. I really am. But why anyone would put this app on their game – why anyone would want to partner with MS for any reason at all when they don’t explicitly need to do so – is beyond me.

  44. deathguise says:

    I am convinced that one day, someone will actually post a well-thought out explaination as to why GFWL is a bad thing, to which I can have a mature discussion upon. Unfortunately, the cycle of hating for the sake of hating continues without any serious discussion on the issues, rather just endless reposting of a few issues only a few users have encountered, whilst giving no heed to the massive improvements the service has made as it has matured, exactly like the early days of Steam.

    Feel free to prove me wrong though, I’d love a real discussion.

    • Unaco says:

      The corrupted and lost save problems isn’t a reasonable explanation as to why GFWL is bad? Tying saves to the GFWL system even when they’re on your hard-drive, refusing to access them due to problems logging on? Personally I’ve had very few problems with it (the one that stands out was a corrupted save, only 30 minutes of play though, luckily), but a great many people have reported serious issues with that aspect of the service.

    • Mac says:

      Corrupted save in Batman, corrupted save in DoW 2, and don’t get me started on the patching process in Fallout 3.

      GFWL embodies everything that is bad about client based DRM.

      • deathguise says:

        I’ll try to cover my opinions on both the save-related questions in one reply for convenience. I really appreciate what you’re saying but at the same time, at least they’re providing a method for multiple users to keep their own games and saves without having to quit the entire game and service completely (ala Steam). Yes, the saves could be less obsfucated, yes they could be freed of the restriction of being permanently attached to the Live account, however this is mostly a holdover from the way the Xbox Live system was designed and also to discourage save sharing to unlock achievements.

        In all seriousness I will rein in on the save corruption issue. It has never happened to me, or any of my friends, however I can see why 30 or more hours of your life disappearing in front of you is a huge issue. The problem I have is tarring the whole service because of this, as it not only an issue that does not affect every game, but also an issue that does not affect every user of a game it has been reported in. Arkham Asylum had a particularly prevalent save problem, but did Section 8? Even considering GFWL to be the problem, this is something the devs should pick up in testing and solve there. If not every game has the problem, why do some of them?

        But I digress, I really want to thank you guys for discussing the issues properly, rather than bitch.

        • HothMonster says:

          What games does steam make you only have 1 saved game for? I honestly don’t understand the complaint.

          You can only attach a game to one GFWL account just like for steam. Beyond that the amount of save games slots and multi profiles is an in game feature.

          Yes after GFWL erases 60 hours of my time, by deleting my AC saves multiple times. I no longer care to give any money to it. Not to mention the customer service and the frustration of the issue.

          I had the save game on my computer still but it no longer worked because “something something sign in decryption code changed something irreversible” That is basically what I finally got out of a rocksteady rep. After GFWL telling me I had to contact the DEV, then rocksteady telling me it was caused by MS and there hands were tied, then GFWL still continued to not have a support page (it just says go to your dev) so I called xbox live who said its not heir problem, then I called MS’s main tech support who said its not their problem. When I asked them whose problem it was they transfered me to xbox live who again told me to call the dev who finally gave me an intern who let me yell at him for 20 minutes, told me everything would be ok, except of course it wouldnt.

          But hey I hear the end of AC is great….

          • deathguise says:

            Sorry, I must not have been clear. When I said “users to keep their own games and saves without having to quit the entire game and service completely (ala Steam)”. I meant more multiple users using the same computer and game. In cases on Steam where there is only one ‘save slot’ on a game (let’s use Modern Warfare 3 as an example) if you wanted to change your user you have to quit the game, quit out of Steam, log back in with the other account then boot the game back up. In GWFL, you just log out of your live profile in-game, then log in with the other user, thereby switching your profile without having to exit the game or GFWL.

            I appreciate that in both cases you have to have bought the game on each profile you’re playing on, and although profile slots are a game feature, in games which are effectively ‘one copy, one profile’ it’s quicker to switch users on GFWL.

            EDIT: Sorry, you edited while I was replying. Customer Service is supposed to be pretty bad, never had to contact them myself though, there’s actually a really interesting thread on Reddit at the moment where a GFWL support guy is explaining the problems they face trying to give half-decent service (http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/s4o9y/i_cannot_express_how_much_i_hate_you/)

          • HothMonster says:

            your complaint is now understood thank you for clarifying.

            From my experience there is no dedicated gfwl support, any attempt to contact them leads to a brick wall that says contact the games dev even if we are the cause of your woes. Which is extra annoying if you are looking at your save game file and just need them to decrypt it or rollback the code tied to your account so it decrypts properly on loading.

            Steams support is shitty but at least they exist even if its just to say, yeah we fucked up but can’t do anything. Of course after the three bot responses they send you.

            But thanks ill check out the reddit thread.

        • Mac says:

          I’m sorry, but being able to swap profiles from within game in GFWL is not a feature I would crow about – for one, it takes as long to hit Home and wait for the dialogue box to pop up and change ID (given how slow the GFWL client is) as it does to close down Steam, log in as a different user and re-launch the game.

          In addition, if this is the only “feature” which provides a benefit over Steam then lord help us. It certainly does not compensate for the poor patching, lost saves, and general annoyance of matchmaking.

          Further, I do blame devs for not allowing multiple profiles – it’s just a cheap money grab, and thankfully there are few games which adopt this policy.

          It shows the commitment of MS when they have even changed GFWL to just be called XBOX Live in any case.

          GFWL should either commit to the PC and make a solid client or die … how many times have MS re-re-re-re-re-re-re-launched their commitment to PC?

    • Premium User Badge

      Crimsoneer says:

      it refuses to update games for me, yet doesn’t give me any other way of updating. Downloads update, closes, doesn’t install, rinse and repeat. The only way to bypass the damn thing is to go digging in appdata folders.

      Oh, and it completely broke Batman Imposters.

      • deathguise says:

        A number of GFWL games provide a manual patcher in case you can’t use the in-game updater. The in game updater does need work, however until updates are handled by a central client this will always be an issue for the platform, as due to the fact that GWFL is not a background process (like Steam) and people refuse to accept ‘another’ download service (see Origin), the only way to provide centralised updates is to run the game (which starts GWFL as a process) then having to quit the game to patch while GFWL is running in the background (can’t patch a game if it is running). If you look at the marketplace on Windows Phone and Windows 8, this issue is more or less resolved, and will hopefully be fixed in all GFWL games come Windows 8 and the change over to Xbox Live for Windows.

        • Premium User Badge

          Crimsoneer says:

          Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure GFWL will work fine one day, but this problem has been around for ages. I first had it with Bioshock 2, and had it most recently when I bought Bulletstorm. MS has just stopped working on GFWL. I’m sure it COULD work great, but for me it just doesn’t work.

          Also, linking save games to one online profile is idiotic.

          It also has the most IDIOTIC multiplayer userame system: once you’ve picked a username, that is the only name you can every dsiplay in multiplayer. So my original account was FirstnameLastname, and now, ehenver I play online with GFWL, that’s my display name. Unless I PAY TO CHANGE IT….ARG.

          • deathguise says:

            In all likelyhood, work on GWFL probably stopped some time ago when Windows 8 was coming into the picture, get ready for convergent services I guess. I think with proper development it could, as you say, be great, especially if GWFL itself wasn’t a port. The whole ‘unique username’ thing fell out of fashion forever ago, but bear in mind that the architecture behind Live (Xbox and GWF) has been pretty much set in stone since the original Xbox Live launch in 2002, the console implementation has effectively been holding the pc implementation back considerably, MS know how to make content delivery systems and all that cool shit Steam was only dreaming of back in 2003, but they had to work with the original Xbox as a base. It would be nice to change your username to whatever you want, but it is a unique identifier at least, if someone is cheating or hacking, any idiot can report them without having to reverse engineer a Steam User ID list (MW3 looking at you).

            In all honesty though, I wish more people had tried the original GFWL implementation that shipped with games like Gears and The Club, it was fast, minimalist and there were barely any bugs to speak of, hilariously ‘it just worked’ unlike the confused program we have now, there’s the executable, where you have to download DLC out of game, which is also a store, then the in game menu, which looks different, ehhhh. Like I said, lots of niggles solved in W8 hopefully.

    • Premium User Badge

      Phinor says:

      How about the little problem that GFWL is only available in 35 countries in the world? Rest of the 150+ countries actually can’t play GFWL games at all unless you create an illegal account with fake information. Of course you wouldn’t care about this issue if you happen to be among the 35 lucky countries but I’d say it’s a bit more than an inconvenience.

      • Khemm says:

        It’s over 50 now. And I can play online fine using an account registered to a supported country.

      • deathguise says:

        Inconvenient yes, and I do know what it’s like to be shut out of a service based on region (Zune). However at least in those supported countries, you can trade in local currency as opposed to Steam which only supports four currencies, and does a very weak job of it in terms of localised pricing, so does Origin in fact.

        There is room for improvement, but this is in fact occuring thanks to Windows Phone, as Microsoft have been expanding the WP marketplace (which uses a Live account) as to be competetive in the mobile space (nobody wants a phone with no apps nowadays).

    • AlexV says:

      Also, GFWL breaks my media streamer.

      No, honestly, it does. GFWL requires the Windows Live Sign-In Assistant to be installed, and the Windows Live Sign-In Assistant makes a small change to the SMB networking protocol that broke non-windows access to windows shares. (https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7577)

      Of course, the Samba team produced a workaround, but as there’s been no updated firmware for my media streamer box that sits under the TV (and not looking likely to be either), it means that if I install GFWL then it can’t access my windows shares, and can’t play my shared media.

      Just another reason why GFWL sucks.

      • Khemm says:

        So it was Windows Live Sign-In Assistant that broke compatibility and Samba’s fault, yet you’re blaming GFWL?

      • deathguise says:

        OK, so blame can be placed on the LSIA breaking Samba, however as the above poster says, this is not GFWL fault directly (should have been picked up by the LSIA dev team), however if Samba have produced a fix and haven’t pushed a firmware update that’s Samba dragging their heels on the matter not Microsoft.

        I really hate to say it but this is a big part of the hate for GFWL, one thing breaking another, I mean, a lot of people complain about .NET not working, but pretty much every Steam game installs it, so do we blame .NET (yes), the game installing it (nope) or Steam (definite nope). Hopefully you can see where I’m coming from here, it’s definitely not a personal attack.

  45. Eukatheude says:

    And guess who they’re gonna blame after the game sells poorly?
    Fucking idiots.

    • MistahThorn says:

      Piracy. That’s how big game publishers think they’re getting off the hook.

    • Khemm says:

      The only fucking idiots are people using GFWL as an excuse to pirate the game. Retards.

      • Eukatheude says:

        I’d probably buy it and then play the pirated version.

  46. Mac says:

    Namco snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the dick move of using GFWL

  47. Kaira- says:

    Meh, no problem for me. I’ll probably get the PC version somewhere down the line when some of the problems that might be created by GfWL will be cut down. And besides, Steam has been so much more trouble than GfWL it isn’t even funny.

  48. best_jeppe says:

    Even if I am not the target audience for this game I have still followed the turns and was sincerely happy for all the Dark Soul-fans out there when a PC-version was announced…but somewhere I always knew it was to good to be true. I personally hate G4WL and I pray all the time (that is, if I was religious) that G4WL gets shutdown sooner rather than later. G4WL just destroys any gaming enjoyment.

  49. Ezhar says:

    At first glance I thought the title read something like “GFWL: prepare to die” and I was happy. Then I read it properly. Not so happy now.

  50. Ysellian says:

    Well this sucks :/