Runic Explains Why Torchlight II’s Taking A While

By John Walker on July 18th, 2012 at 12:00 pm.

Some more screenshots would be nice, too.

If you’re anything like me, then not only are you uniquely handsome, but you’re also wondering what the bloody hell is taking action RPG Torchlight II so long. Come ON Torchlight 2! My mouse has just recovered from Diablo III, and I need SOMETHING TO CLICKCLICKCLICK on. Oh, they’ve said. As Eurogamer spotted, Runic bossman Travis Baldree has posted on their forums saying why there’s still not a release date for the pre-orderable game.

In a reinvention of Baldree’s “Not A Blog” for Mythos, Not A Blog Redux is intended to be a place where he can say exactly what they’re up to. And it seems a lot of that is based on feedback from the beta, especially about the skill system.

“We’ve talked about the skill changes in previous posts, but to recap, the gist is that there isn’t a ‘tree’ per se. Skills are made available for investment by level (just as they were in the tree), but their unlock level is no longer determined by vertical positioning in the tree, which gives us more flexibility to place them where we want them. In addition, you receive specific bonuses to each skill (apart from standard investment bonuses) at every 5 point mark, or tier, which are hopefully a good enticement to continue investing in a skill.”

Got that?

“I’ll take the Engineer’s Machinegun bot as a quick example (subject to change, of course). At 5 points, his shots begin ricocheting. At 10, they pierce, and at 15 they are tripled. So, a level 15 machinegun bot skill has triple, piercing, ricocheting shots. Way cooler than level 1. Of course, damage, and other properties are improved with every point of investment, but there’s a bigger jump every 5. I should stress that we didn’t REMOVE cool stuff from skills and ball it all up to make the tiers neater. We have tried to make sure that the skills are designed to be cool as is, and just get a notable ‘extra’ at the tiers.”

This was amongst many other changes highlighted by the beta, including respecs, passive unlocks, inventory design, as well as various connectivity doodahs. Except, all of this is spoken of in the past tense. So what are they doing now?

“There are one or two of these items that are fairly simple that remain to be done (we want to add a checkbox to new game creation in the lobby so you can force a ‘reroll’, which will reseed your entire game and repopulate it. Handy.) We also want to finish setting up our relay server (a relay server bounces messages between players that are having trouble connecting to one another), and we want to handle some specific game-fracture cases where two clients in a larger pool lose connection to one another, but not everyone else (the game has to automatically split them out into their own isolated games)”

And on top of this, they’re now back polishing. A subject about which you can read in great detail in the post. He then explains how pretty much everyone at the studio is still working frantically, and then… doesn’t give any notion of a release date. Oh Travis, you tease.

These posts will apparently be weekly, seemingly to convince grumbling fans that their pre-orders haven’t just fallen into a well. And yes, it’s obviously far more sensible to adopt the old id “done when it’s done” policy if you don’t have a publisher enforcing pretend release dates on you. But we just want to play it!

, , .

110 Comments »

  1. hemmingjay says:

    And they are also fighting a Chinese game company that ripped off sound and art files from Torchlight 1(allegedly). This may also prove to be a distraction from making progress.

      • hemmingjay says:

        agreed, however, it would be irresponsible to state it without the qualifier “allegedly”.

        • trjp says:

          To be fair that looks a hell of a lot better than “one trick pony” Torchlight :)

          • Anders Wrist says:

            What planet are you from?

          • trjp says:

            The one which is bigger and shinier than yours :)

            I’m pretty sure I saw a character use more than 1 type of magic attack – clearly they’ve expanded the concept or pressed the wrong button in the video because TL sure-as-hell didn’t need you to do that – you could complete the game with a book wedged on the keyboard :)

          • Longrat says:

            If there’s one thing I hate, it’s smug bastards that use :) all the time to hide their vile venomous nature.
            It’s like
            “Well at least I’m not a horrible pathetic loser like you :)”

            I want trjp to leave

          • Underwhelmed says:

            @longrat

            Trip will never leave, people with so little self-awareness never figure out how useless and not clever they are.

          • Sassenach says:

            While we’re on the subject of passive aggressive symbols. How about those ellipses? Tacked onto the end of any sentence, they imply that the stupidity of the addressee is beyond words.

            Underwhelmed. Don’t you see? It’s all part of his master plan to make you look foolish by making you post observations on the internet, WITH EMOTION! Soon, his plan shall reach fruition, and then there shall be much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the trolled. For all shall know who is the master of manipulation.

          • Xerian says:

            Do you guys realise how many games there are assets from? I saw creatures from Warcraft, the warlock-armour from World of Warcraft, and then some Torchlight assets too. This stuff is literally purely ripped off… And the amazing 3D particles are totally amazing!!11… Jesus christ. Jesus.

          • elnalter says:

            Sounds like someone is Chinese and butthurt.

        • Chris D says:

          He’s not that bad. I have quite a jolly time trying to figure out what antics he’s been up to this week from the responses people give.

          Obviously I’m not going to unblock him, though. That would be insane.

          Edit: Drat! Wrong subthread, but probably close enough that you can get the idea.

      • Vorphalack says:

        That’s got some D3 and WoW thrown in for good measure. 0.19……that IS a Warlock, isn’t it. Not even slightly ambiguous.

        • trjp says:

          It’s acceptable to rip-off Warcraft (as TL itself did pretty heavily) because the whole thing is a massive mishmash of Warhammer/other bits with minimal originality anyway.

          See also the latest Orcs Must Die 2 stuff which appears to lift a WoW Goblin lock-stock-and-barrel…

          • Vorphalack says:

            You go tell that to Activisions lawyers and let us know when they stop laughing.

          • Kestilla says:

            Considering Warcraft was at first meant to be a Warhammer game before the license was revoked, and that Warcraft goblins have always looked quite a lot like Warhammer goblins, where they came from in the very first place, and that it is perfectly acceptable to take inspiration from other works and the mathematical formula that states gamers recognize a goblin and there are few ways to successfully render one-

            It’s alleged the Chinese game wholly ripped Torchlight assets and ran them over in their modeling studio of choice. That being the case, as Runic themselves have said, they don’t mind inspiration, but theft is another matter.

            Also, if I may suggest so, your comment treads into “Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci ripped each other off because they both used paint and the basic principles of gauging human body” territory. Those look nothing like Warcraft anything except they’re green and have the traditionally accepted characteristics of orcs and goblins in a fantasy setting.

            http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1839/omd2.jpg

          • jalf says:

            Er, there is a difference between “making something that looks like another game”, and “reusing the actual art assets”.

            Torchlight did the former, just like every other game ever released has done: artists go “oh, that looks cool” when looking at other games, and then sometimes, we get art that’s obviously inspired by other games. Nothing wrong with that.

            What Torchlight *didn’t* do is take the actual content files from WoW and reuse them.

            The Armed Heroes developers did just that with Torchlight assets. They even used the same filenames, with the same typos and everything.’

            That goes a bit beyond “being inspired” by another game. It’s not imitation, it’s, well, theft, I guess

          • Dana says:

            Don’t be ridiculous. You can use the same art style, but you can’t simply copy paste assets directly from the game.

          • Vorphalack says:

            Kestilla, did you actually look at the video? They simply have an undead Warlock in tier 10 / 10.5 armour as a playable hero. Same skin, same model skeleton, same low res textures, same colour scheme. That isn’t a re-imagining, it’s a straight up copy paste from WoW.

          • Hensler says:

            “Considering Warcraft was at first meant to be a Warhammer game before the license was revoked…”

            Wow, really? Anybody got a link/source for this, would love to hear more details.

          • Nevard says:

            1) It was STARCRAFT that was meant to be a Warhammer game
            2) Even if Warcraft I was meant to be a Warhammer game they would have made plenty more changes by WCIII
            3) Forsaken aren’t even introduced as a playable race until Warcraft III
            4) The armour set directly stolen from WoW wasn’t introduced until Icecrown Citadel
            5) Icecrown Citadel wasn’t introduced until December 2009
            6) That’s five years and one month since the release of World of Warcraft
            7) That’s seven years and seven months since the release of Warcraft III
            8) If they had directly taken things from Warhammer, even in Warcraft III (which they clearly did not do), they would have been sued to hell. They clearly haven’t.
            9) EVEN IF ALL THE ABOVE WERE NOT TRUE, IT STILL WOULDN’T BE OK TO DIRECTLY STEAL IN-GAME ART ASSETS

            So no, you’re wrong, try again.

          • Baines says:

            World of Warcraft was meant to be a Warhammer game.

            I don’t know about the Warcraft series in general.

    • Gnoupi says:

      http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/17/torchlight-game-assets-plagiarized-by-chinese-developer-runic-responds/

      They actually stole assets, not even simply “got inspired by”. There are actually files in their release which are exactly Torchlight ones, up to the name. That includes boss names, and even misspelling (“mechdwardeath”, instead of “mechdwarfdeath”).

      You can find more details in the upper link, and the TA forums.

      And the only answer from this other “developers” is that Torchlight ripped off Diablo and Fate, since the pet was taken from Fate.

      • trjp says:

        The thing is, if they’re Chinese – you’re fucked. There’s no way you’ll be able to take action because copyright isn’t a concept they grasp.

        The best you could do is deter any western company from promoting the game outside Asia – but most Asian MMOs seem to self-market themselves into the West these days anyway?

        • UncleLou says:

          They grasp that concept pretty quickly once you prohibit them from selling it in the EU or the US, and even quicker if you enforce lawyer and court fees as soon as they set foot into the EU or US.

          It’s more difficult in China itself, yes.

          • Gnoupi says:

            It’s a mobile app. Most of the revenue they hope to get will come from the Apple appstore.
            Getting banned from it would be quite bad for them.

          • Underwhelmed says:

            The Apple Store? You mean the same one that gave the green light to an App called “Pokemon Yellow” which had screen caps from the GB version on it’s store page, and did not in fact even launch or do anything? Yeah Apple doesn’t really care, they make money either way.

          • Shuck says:

            @Underwhelmed: Although Apple doesn’t try (since it doesn’t make sense to spend the resources) to figure out if a particular game is infringing or is a licensed spin-off, it does respond very quickly to take-down requests for infringing games. In this case, I don’t think the game was out for even a week before it was taken down.

      • trjp says:

        Also – reading further into this, it strikes me that in-order to know that Armed Heroes used their assets (particular things like filenames) they must have reverse-engineered the game – which is illegal in the US isn’t it? :)

        • hemmingjay says:

          The file is not encrypted. It was in plain text just like the original in TL. Runic games invites people to view both, which are the same down to the spelling mistakes.

        • Gnoupi says:

          They were accessible in the SDK. Torchlight was opened to modding, nothing was encrypted.

      • InternetBatman says:

        I thought Runic made Fate?

        • fish99 says:

          …they also made Diablo 1/2 when they were Blizz North, so yeah they ripped off their own games :)

          (although of course Blizzard own the Diablo IP not Runic)

        • Gnoupi says:

          They didn’t, but they have the lead designer of Fate. And the two lead designers of Diablo 1/2. So yeah, that’s a stupid answer from those chinese devs.

    • Flying Ace says:

      Had to finally register at rock paper shotgun just to post this lol

      “you see the Chinese are very good at this sort of thing”

  2. Premium User Badge

    drewski says:

    Can.

    Not.

    Wait.

    • AngoraFish says:

      Preordered some time ago. Disappointed game still not out. Willing to wait for finished product.

  3. Premium User Badge

    AmateurScience says:

    I thought we’d got past the age of tiny boring incremental ’1% more damage’ increases every level with each skill point? The skill trees in the original were insipid – definitely the low point for me (loved the game to bits though).

    • JD Ogre says:

      That’s why they’re adding the bonus abilities to each skill every 5 ranks, to give you something more than just stat bonuses.

    • Premium User Badge

      skalpadda says:

      Which I guess is why they’re adding stuff to the skills. And at least you get points pretty fast and at regular intervals in the Torchlight games so there’s room do diversify your build and try out different stuff every time you level up or gain fame.

      • Premium User Badge

        AmateurScience says:

        I guess my point would be: why bother with the intervening 4 levels of unnoticeable incremental increase? This may be the quintessential horses for courses argument, but why not slow down levelling and have a much bigger step up when you do level?

        • Malk_Content says:

          Pacing. People (in general) prefer to get a little something every ten minutes of game time that builds into a big thing every 50 than just getting a big thing every 50. Same reason why hearts send you mail and daily achievements drop a chest to open in GW2, originally it wasn’t going to be that way but they found the majority of testers enjoyed opening things every now and then.

          Also getting more points worth smaller amounts (progression wise) helps with build diversity. Sure if you’ve put 4 points into something you should probably go ahead and grab the 5th. But after that? Maybe you only want to go up to 6 or 7 with your healing bot right now, as any extra healing isn’t helping you at the moment, so you can start to focus on something else. Getting one big point every 5 levels (or 1 big point every level with levelling being 5 times slower) doesn’t give players these options.

          Would I like T2 to give me a radical change to my skill every time I put a point in it? Yes I would. But I also want the game to come out this side of 2015 and have more than 5 skills per class.

          • Premium User Badge

            AmateurScience says:

            Fair point, I wonder if it would be possible to fill that void with gear progression or some other different progression or somesuch? As you said, umming and ahhing about perfecting a levelling system isn’t really cost effective – lets face it D3 took 12 years, most of which was the system (I imagine) and I’d rather have the game with a solid system than wait on one indefinitely with the promise of a perfected one.

          • Premium User Badge

            skalpadda says:

            @AmateurScience
            Looting in most games is a bit random, and of course you replace it now and then, so I’m not sure it can fill the same progression function. I guess there have been some games that let you “level up” a powerful weapon or other equipment and I suppose you can consider enchanting to do that in Torchlight 2; it just uses gold instead of experience.

            I agree with you that the skill trees were among the weakest points of the first Torchlight but these things always seem to be a compromise between power and player control (and how willing the developers are to allow people to make bad choices). For what it’s worth my impression of TL2 (the beta) is that the active skills are generally more diverse and useful, so while it’s still not great to be spending points on upgrading a skill by 2% (or whatever) there’s far more incentive to try out different stuff rather than the TL1 skill trees which encouraged you to take one or two active skills and then dump the rest into passives.

          • Baines says:

            Sometimes developers should just say no to the idea that “People like rewards. We can give them five times as many rewards if we make the rewards five times as small and just award them five times as fast.”

            Because it is just silly to fire two bullets in Modern Warfare 3 and get six consecutive different level up and award notifications.

            And the +1% skill stuff does seem rather inelegant when you’ve got major jumps mixed in every few levels. Unless you’ve botched your build, it doesn’t seem likely that you’ll spend three or four points without spending the fifth to get the bonus ability. And the increments are so small that there is little reason to just spend one or two points, not when those points might get you to some other skill’s next major upgrade faster.

          • Premium User Badge

            skalpadda says:

            Quite a few of the skills in the beta had utility value even with just one point spent in them. The engineer had a skill that could instantly break enemy shields for example and things like the healing or gun bots would be useful with only one point spent on them. Also worth mentioning that a lot of damage skills scale with level and/or weapon damage (and of course with stats), so spending points isn’t the only way to increase the damage of a skill.

        • aliksy says:

          There’s probably a bunch of ways skill points could be implemented without “1% more damage” being a step.

          They could just make every level do something neat. Probably harder to “balance”.
          They could leave the big jumps at every 5 levels like they’re doing, but make the intervening increases bigger. 10% more damage, say. GW2 does pretty much this with traits.
          They could have every level do something neat, but have additional investment cost more points. Maybe combine this with “more than one skill point per level” or “it costs n points to unlock improvement, if you spend only x points, it has x/n chance of activating”

          Anyway, I’m sure they’ll do an adequate job and modders will fix it if they don’t.

          • Malk_Content says:

            Even GW2 traits system is every level you get +1% (or whatever the exact number is) to a pair of your stats and every 10 you get to a big change.

      • Underwhelmed says:

        Sacred 2 handled skills in a really cool way. At certain skill levels, you got to pick one of two upgrades to the skill. Many of them were of the boring “+15% damage variety” but there were some inspired ones too that changed the actual character of the skill, not unlike the rune system in D3, but instead of only choosing one, you got to pick 3 from a possible 6 so your skills could be personalized with a combination. For fireball, you could just pick the two damage upgrades and the AOE upgrade for a larger, stronger version, or you could end up with a triple shot with one extra damage, or a double homing shot with that set enemies on fire for DOT.

    • waycooler says:

      I didn’t play the TL2 Beta, and I’ve been sort of avoiding most concrete information on the game in the usual “not spoiling it for myself” tradition, so maybe they’ve changed things a lot since the first game and I don’t know it. But during the many hours I spent on Torchlight 1, I was finding that aside from not being sure what skills to get or level up, every increment in a skill was valuable, adding much more than 1% damage per increment. I was continually surprised by how much more damage I’d be doing after putting points into a skill, having been expecting terrible 1% increments.

      I don’t see why they’d throw that out, seeing as how it was one thing that worked about TL1′s skill progression.

  4. elevown says:

    Well, except the wait still goes on, that all sounds very good! I can wait- its not like I’m short of games to play, and the steam sales are increasing my choices every day!

    I remember TB saying they had to change the skill trees, because you had stuff like shotgun mastery at lvl 30 or whatever- so you can use them and they drop, but for some reason you couldnt develope the skill to make it do more damage till 30! hence noone would use them anyway till then so that was realy dumb!

    Im glad they have listened to feedback- and also the extra effect every 5 skill ranks sounds ALOT more interesting than just 5 more dex or whatever for each lvl.

  5. MikoSquiz says:

    If you’re going to do that, why not just get rid of the intermediate levels? Instead of having actual meaningful upgrades at 5, 10, 15 just give them at 2, 3, 4 and hand out correspondingly fewer skill points.

    • thepaleking says:

      But then you’d be able to max out virtually every skill. And if you opt for giving less skill points, then you’d have to extend the time between levels to balance it out, and then we’re just going in circles. The point between major upgrades just to lead people to specialize ( but then maybe people will get bored and start specializing in other stuff in the mean time…I don’t know).

    • Xocrates says:

      That translates as either one skill point every 5 levels or taking 5 times longer to level up.

      Also, the intermediate levels do stuff, the problem was they didn’t do enough, particularly because the base stats for most of the skills were pretty damn good. There was an advantage on taking points on a skill, but for the most part they felt negligible.

      That said, I don’t see this as the optimal solution, but it certainly sounds better.

    • Asyne says:

      My thoughts exactly. Immediate, meaningful result of stat investment is what turned DX:HR from good into gold. If investing 5 points is necessary to see an important change, why would you invest any if you weren’t going to eventually invest 5?

      Divide points awarded by five, divide total levels by five (multiplying other stat gains by five), multiply available skills by five – just make it so 80% of skill points aren’t spent on bland “+XYZ damage” improvements.

  6. Premium User Badge

    jrodman says:

    Do not pre-order. The release target keeps on slipping.

    —-

    Though I really was quite taken with the beta. I recommend checking it out once there’s something playable again.

    • hemmingjay says:

      All logic other than yours is bad? Let people make up their own minds. They can clearly see that there is no set release date but if they think it is still a good idea to pre-purchase, let them. Also, pre-purchasing gives them a copy of TL1. Will you match that offer for people who don’t pre-purchase as per your advice?

    • thepaleking says:

      That’s not really a reason not to pre-order though..I mean not pre-ordering isn’t going to make the game come out faster. And if you’re pre-ordering you must be pretty sure you want it anyway.

    • Koshinator says:

      There’s no risk in preordering… it will come out when it comes out – and they’ve never specified a release date. No reason not to… unless you have limited resources at the moment (in which case why are you buying games then?)

    • Tusque D'Ivoire says:

      I did very much love the beta, and would actually like to use this opportunity to remind people that there’s a 4-pack organising thread going on, and we’re looking for buyers situated in the US/Australia, where the 4-pack seems to be cheapest.

      I think this way one copy will set you back about 15$, and is well worth a purchase even amongst the summer sale madness. contact me in the forums. elephant god

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      @hemmingjay: It goes without saying that people can make up my own minds. You yourself call it advice after inconsistently suggesting I’m not letting people make up their own minds.

      I’ve just been following the game and noting that it keeps on slipping, and believe everyone will be happier if people buy it when it’s available.

      @thepalekin: Well, it is a reason not to pre-order. What if it’s another year? What if never? Projects do fail.
      That doesn’t meant you *can’t* pre-order. Be my guest.

      • Ringwraith says:

        If the game released right this instant, it’d probably still be playable and fun to do so, but they’re busy being the perfectionists they are and I’d prefer a “when it’s done” approach to a date that keeps getting delayed.

      • Heisenberg says:

        ” ….and believe everyone will be happier if people buy it when it’s available.”

        how does that make sense?
        ive pre ordered and i’m happy right now, (also i’m playing the original TL) and i’ll be even happier when TL is released but it wouldnt make me happier to not have pre ordered.

    • Ergates_Antius says:

      Already pre-ordered. Don’t really care if the release date keeps slipping and it wasn’t expensive.

      In the mean time, I have more games to play than I have time to play them – and that’s going to get *much* worse in a few months.

    • caddyB says:

      What’s wrong with preordering if you have 20$ you don’t need right now?

      • Bhazor says:

        Africa.

        • Belua says:

          By that logic, we might as well cancel our internet, sell our Computers and never play a game again, because Africa (and other countries) have problems even when Torchlight 2 is not available for preordering. What if someone donated to African children and after that still has money left? Is he allowed to preorder? Or must he make another donation? Or increase his original one? And what about buying a finished product – is that allowed, if it’s not needed for survival?

        • InternetBatman says:

          I am also a fan of Toto. Maybe I should buy their greatest hits while I’m waiting for Torchlight.

  7. ukpanik says:

    “I need SOMETHING TO CLICKCLICKCLICK”

    Welcome to PC gaming.

  8. mondomau says:

    I just knew the word ‘polish’ was going to turn up at some point. Stop polishing! You’ll go blind!

  9. Chris D says:

    Is it actually possible to make shots that both pierce and ricochet? I would have thought you could have either hard or bouncy but not both. That last sentence is not intended to be as rude as it sounds.

    • Grygus says:

      A regular old bullet in the real world pierces paper but ricochets off rocks. If they are saying that it will pierce enemies and then ricochet off the walls, then it’s only an exaggeration of physics, not an abandonment. I don’t know whether that is what they mean. Sounds reasonable, though.

      • Chris D says:

        This is true and seems entirely reasonable. However the problem is that a regular bullet in the game apparently neither pierces nor ricochets, so presumably you have to modify them in some way to achieve these effects.

        If you want to modify it to pierce things you presumably have to make it harder and pointier. If you want to modify it to ricochet you presumably have to allow it to deform and then snap back into shape, or to use the technical term, make it bouncier.

        These two modification would still seem to be somewhat mutually exclusive, so while bullets can indeed both pierce and ricochet I still remain unconvinced it’s possible to modify them to become better at both these things.

        • Chris D says:

          On the other hand, I suppose you could improve the penetration by increasing the muzzle velocity rather than modifying the bullet itself, which would mean you’d stll be able to mod the bullet for extra bounciness.

          There’d still be cases in which you’d ricochet off armoured targets or become embedded in walls but with careful testing you could probably tune it to work as desired in the majority of situations.

          Now, about using fire magic in wooden buildings……

          • Sassenach says:

            Well it’s a function of pressure (i.e. the pointyness of the projectile) and kinetic energy (which is of course E=MC^2). Since it technically always either penetrates or bounces and each material would have it’s own threshhold for which of these occurs dependent on properties such as density you could have something bounce off some surfaces, perforate others, and simply penetrate the remainder (this latter option being what the supposedly ‘default’, boring, projectiles do.).

            Of course as much fun as simulating ballistics engineering would be, I don’t think it’s going to make it into the game in any substantial way. More’s the pity.

  10. Dominic White says:

    Torchlight 2 seems pretty solid, but I guess it’s a little too bright and fluffy and fixated on loot for me. It feels like a direct indie rival to Diablo 3, which isn’t bad, but I’d much rather play something like Path of Exile (which has atmosphere far closer to the original, slower, darker Diablo), where loot and levelling feels more like a means to an end, rather than the be-all and end-all of gameplay.

    • Tolkfan says:

      Runic Games isn’t an indie company.

      • Dominic White says:

        Since when? They’re a small studio, not tied to any publisher, and – as far as I’m aware – own all their own IPs. What makes them not indie?

        • Choca says:

          Runic is a subsidiary of Perfect World Entertainment.

          • Premium User Badge

            Wisq says:

            I dunno, I still consider them an indie studio. Just, y’know, an indie studio that’s been acquired by a largish company.

            … Yeah, that makes no sense.

  11. dE says:

    I’m slightly annoyed at their danse de release. It’s a whole lot of pony prancing around the topic. I wouldn’t mind if they (the Devs) would just shut the f— up about the ever-shifting release date before they actually have any. But for some reason they can’t, they love being vague about it, hinting and pointing with inconsistent information popping up here and there.
    I’m pretty sure the “this summer” thing they’ve got on steam will come and pass like all the other timeframes they had before it.

    For clarity, I’m not mad at them taking their time. That’s great. I’m mad at their PR overdoing the release date stuff.

    • trjp says:

      Except that their PR is them as far as I can tell – and they’ve been waving bits of their willy in public for almost a year now.

      No matter, Path of Exile trudges towards us with less fanfare but simply far, far, far, far, far more “clickclickclickclick” fun and games (for far less monies!!) – hence I care not 1 jot.

  12. djbriandamage says:

    No identify scrolls please, Runic!

    • Heisenberg says:

      it at least makes more sense then D3′s pointless click and wait 5 secs to identify……….(WHY!?!!)
      but yeah, there really should be no identify at all in any game IMO.

      • Chris D says:

        Identify makes a certain sense in some games, such as roguelikes, where there’s a chance the item will be cursed,or may be either a healing potion or turn you into a frog. In that case risking using an unidentified item can be an interesting tactical choice, or a dramatic moment of desperation at least.

        You’re right, though, in that there’s no real reason to maintain it in games like Torchlight where the loot is generally on your side.

        • Alevice says:

          Even worse, you can’t even equip unidentified items. So its a a mere pace controller.

          • Chris D says:

            Yep, and given how cheap and plentiful scrolls are it’s not even like you have to choose what to use them on, just head back to town and buy another stack. It’s not the worst thing in the world but it is quite tedious and has no real pay off that I can see.

        • Heisenberg says:

          yes, if its a gameplay element, as you mentioned, then thats fine but we seriously dont need it otherwise.

      • Premium User Badge

        jrodman says:

        On the bright side, you can just mod them out.

    • Premium User Badge

      skalpadda says:

      It’s not too much of a bother as you can just grab an identify spell early on and never have to care about the scrolls again. That still begs the question why they’re even there in the first place of course, but meh.

    • Nim says:

      They were in the beta but you did not need them for regular magic items, just the rarer stuff + you can send your pet shopping for them.

  13. MadTinkerer says:

    Thank goodness for this. The wait for Torchlight II has almost tempted me to think about buying Diablo III. Fortunately the Steam Summer Sale drained my wallet so I no longer had the temptation.

    Bullet dodged. :)

  14. Magus44 says:

    Oh man, this and Retro City Rampage are two of my most wanted games of 2012, and they are still so far away. I thought it was May, and then June…I can wait, but it hurts!
    Tribes subdues the pain. I hope its out before GW2 launches, because thats when my social life disappears, and I have no time for Torchlight 2.

  15. MistyMike says:

    I started playing Torchlight some time ago thinking: “I gotta assure myself I really don’t like hack’n'loot kind of games”. I quit a few hours later thinking “Yep, I definitely still don’t like hack’n'loot kind of games”.

  16. Moraven says:

    Why bother with relay servers and game fractures when 90% of your player base will apparently be offline anyway. Release it in 1.1!

    Also, is Act 2 now the defacto Desert act?
    D2 – act 2 desert
    D3 – act 2 desert
    Torchlight2 – act 2 desert
    Titan Quest – Act 2 desert(Egypt)

    • Heisenberg says:

      90%?
      i dont think so.

    • Alevice says:

      Pah of Exile’s Act 2 is a forest (more like a jungle, but what do I know?). It honestly felt weird in a good way.

  17. Premium User Badge

    daphne says:

    I’ll be getting this game, though I’m disappointed they stuck with the old “stacking skill points” system. Diablo III’s (or, as the cynic might say, Guild Wars’) system is far more superior, because just about any combination of skills and runes results in a ‘focused’ character. Path of Exile also innovates in that regard.

    With the skill point system it’s far too easy to create a crap character that feels like a jack-of-all-trades, and as such the player is pretty much forced to min-max in order to get the most out of the toon. Yeah, sure, Diablo III has optimal builds, but non-optimal builds can still perform (in Inferno, obviously: for the other difficulties you can pretty much ignore build nuance entirely) without feeling gimped.

    I’m not personally invested in this, because I know how to work with a stacking skill point system. But I just don’t like this design, I think it’s unhelpful to new players, and really, by now it’s simply outdated.

  18. TsunamiWombat says:

    oh god release release release release release want it c’mon

  19. MythArcana says:

    Guaranteed to be 47% more fun, I’m all in for the big win. I wish all companies cared about the minute details en route to perfection. Anyway, my drive is reserved for this one, no rush there, Travis.

  20. Tei says:

    Make us a good game. We can wait.

    Also what we have played is very fun, and a enormous improvement from Torchlight 1.

  21. Euphoric says:

    Bought it, because it was only $20 – and it seems like it will be interesting if I can get past the cartoon look, I played alittle of TL1 but SP games are pretty ZZZZzzzz. I was looking for it to fill the gap between Diablo3 boredom and GW2 release. If they release it anytime after GW2 – I probably won’t even touch it – sad but true. They are missing out on a prime release time period…

  22. Shralla says:

    Good. Gives me a bit more time to get my finances in order.

  23. Gale says:

    Usually it’s good sign that release date gets delayed… Look at Duke Nukem Forever and Diablo 3… Good things come to those who wait!

  24. RegisteredUser says:

    I sure hope there is some way to make the inventory stupendously huge or have a near infinite sized stash somewhere.

    What these games always fail to do is address my inner hoarder well enough. Even if the stuff is eventually superceded, the initial “might come in handy” is bad, especially if a game has craftables(Dredmore is a bad, bad boy in this regard).