By John Walker on July 25th, 2012 at 11:00 am.
Oh my goodness, this had better not be a tease. Chris Avellone has told GamesIndustry International that he’s “very tempted” to start a Kickstarter for a sequel to Planescape: Torment. Oh God, oh God, you have to do this, please, please, please. Cough, decorum. PlaneScape: Torment has of course been scientifically proven to be the best RPG of all time, with experts demonstrating that anyone who doesn’t like it is a giant idiot. The thought of more of this fantastic story, from the brain who wrote it, is like concentrated Christmas. Although… he adds, “I don’t know if I’d want to do it as a Planescape game.”
That’s not as bad as it sounds. Despite the game generally colloquially being known as “Planescape”, D&D aficionados will already have been snorting in disgust at the headline of this post, and have begun typing an email to point out Planescape is the D&D realm, Torment is the specific name of this game. By relieving himself of the official D&D rules, you could argue this offers a wealth of new freedom. (I know it’s AD&D – I just like making those emails get started.)
“A better approach would be to ignore the D&D mechanics and respect what Planescape was trying to do and what the game did,” said Avellone to GI. “And see if you can do what Fallout did when it became the spiritual successor to Wasteland.” He’d still keep the plane travel concept and metaphysical concepts, but says the D&D elements actually “got in the way of the experience.” He continues, “That was stuff that D&D didn’t allow for. It was too restraining in some respects. If we did do a spiritual successor, then I don’t know if we’d use the Planescape licence or attach the mechanics, perhaps something that has a different feel to Torment.”
It sounds like he’s given it a decent amount of thought already, and obviously Avellone will have been inspired by his involvement in Fargo’s Wasteland 2 success. But he’s a busy man, with Obsidian also working on the South Park RPG, so perhaps a return for the Nameless One would be a way off, if it were to come to be.
But it turns out, it has to. Because if it doesn’t, after this teasing, I will blow up the Earth.
25/07/2012 at 11:03 coldvvvave says:
Can they deliver a worthy sequel? I doubt it.
25/07/2012 at 11:33 Njordsk says:
Yeah. You don’t touch a myth.
25/07/2012 at 11:45 mr.black says:
On the other hand, why not. It’s just that shift of focus is needed – drop everything else and make xx: Torment 2 your highest priority. I believe Avellone could pull it off.
28/07/2012 at 00:49 Ragnar says:
Tis better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried at all.
I think her can do it too, but even if he can’t, we’re no worse off. Either we have an awesome sequel to PS:T, or we’re back to or starting position of not having one and wanting one.
25/07/2012 at 12:20 Namey says:
I personally have faith that they could make a worthy sequel.
What I don’t have faith in is the more vocal segment of the fanbase accepting one, regardless of quality.
25/07/2012 at 12:29 neonordnance says:
If it’s built on existing tech, and if they have enough time, then yes. The writing in KOTOR II and Fallout New Vegas was at times phenomenal. I have faith.
25/07/2012 at 13:44 KillahMate says:
Sorry for hijacking the first comment, but I believe this is important:
The obligatory Planescape: Torment patching/modding guide that I obsessively link to in every RPS discussion concerning PST.
Also GOG now have a modified version of the same guide that might be of use if you bought it there.
This will help you easily and cleanly drag Torment into the Win7 era, including arbitrary resolutions, widescreen, UI mods, zero bugs, dialogue corrections, optional restored quest content (not fanfics, but original quests lost due to bugs and budget cuts), optional playability tweaks… This is highly recommended, Planescape was a lot more buggy than people remember. Plus the artwork looks amazing in 720p. There is no reason you should ever play the game without this!
25/07/2012 at 15:29 DeathHamsterDude says:
Thank you. I’ve been thinking of buying this off of GOG for a while. It’s been too long.
25/07/2012 at 16:09 mrpage says:
Thanks for posting, that makes going back and giving this a try a lot more appealing.
25/07/2012 at 16:54 cptgone says:
thank you very much!
26/07/2012 at 02:00 E_FD says:
I thought Mask of the Betrayer pulled it off, albeit as a much shorter game.
05/08/2012 at 20:09 Savagetech says:
I’d rather someone take a gamble at following up greatness and fail (e.g. Deus Ex: Invisible War) rather than just leave a great game/concept to rot. At worst it’ll make people go replay the original and remember how great it is, if it’s alright it’ll make another developer pick up the franchise in ~10 years (Human Revolution), and if it does great then we’ll be playing Planescape: Sequelitis XVIII in 10 years.
For the record I think they can do it. To me the story was the best part of the game, so much that I can’t recall the gameplay other than its D&D basis and similarity to Baldur’s Gate. If they get the same writers on board the game could require you to pummel your nutsack with a tack hammer and I’d play it.
25/07/2012 at 11:05 Casimir Effect says:
I’m so torn on whether this would be a good thing or not. Probably, because it’d be Avellone, but they’d still need to make it a new story with, at most, some references to the original.
25/07/2012 at 11:25 Solivagant says:
Torn? Another cancelled BIS game…
25/07/2012 at 11:06 Nim says:
They need to come up with a completely new story then. The Nameless one is not available anymore.
25/07/2012 at 11:11 Bhazor says:
SPOILERS
A sequel is a no no given the original ending sees him leaving to join the endless war on the infinite demon planes. Something I imagine would take a while. A prequel might actually be a pretty cool thing though. Everytime you die you basically appear in a completely new setting and have to find out what you’re supposed to do each time. Kind of like Quantum Leap with a wise cracking skull and women made from 70% breasts.
25/07/2012 at 16:43 dontnormally says:
Cool, I never played the game but I still get to know how it ends!
Thanks dude!
25/07/2012 at 19:30 Bhazor says:
It isn’t a spoiler because it really has nothing to do with the story and comes right the buck out of nowhere. Seriously, it’s one step above “I must go now. My planet needs me.”
25/07/2012 at 20:08 Casimir Effect says:
Actually it’s implied that this is the fate he was running away from initially, causing him to ask for his you-know-what to be taken away. As usual with this game, you really have to hunt to find all the elements of the story.
25/07/2012 at 19:41 TsunamiWombat says:
1. That’s Just ONE ending out of several you can get when playing the game based on your actions, stats, and even class.
2. The games over a decade old, I think at this point statute of limitations kicks in on spoilers. Expect them in a thread about a game this old, this beloved.
25/07/2012 at 17:31 oceanview says:
Great work on the spoilers for those who have yet to play it. If you are going to spoil (one of the) endings give readers a spoiler warning.
25/07/2012 at 17:33 Vinraith says:
The game’s 13 years old, well past its spoiler expiration date.
25/07/2012 at 11:06 Bhazor says:
“PlaneScape: Torment has of course been scientifically proven to be the best RPG of all time, with experts demonstrating that anyone who doesn’t like it is a giant idiot.”
If that sentence won’t bring Wizardry back from the cold I don’t know what will.
25/07/2012 at 13:27 Faldrath says:
That sentence is also objectively, subjectively and transcendentally correct.
25/07/2012 at 16:43 turnbasedfalafel says:
the best bit is that walker has scientifically proven he has no fucking clue what constitutes a good rpg (re: walker talks ME3). seeing him scramble some hamfisted collection of words together about torment being irrefutably the best game of all time is laughable.
25/07/2012 at 18:04 mlaskus says:
Laughable? Well, that’s kind of the point, seeing as he was making a joke.
25/07/2012 at 19:43 TsunamiWombat says:
It’s the Second Coming! Wizardry has returned to us in a new form!
25/07/2012 at 20:58 lasikbear says:
The summoning must be complete! Ahem,
my favorite CRPGs are Mass Effect 2 and Diablo 3.
And, for good measure, I hope they don’t make Planescape 2 turn-based, thats’ so outdated.
05/08/2012 at 19:38 MrPhred says:
Good thinking. Maybe they could make it an FPS.
26/07/2012 at 01:03 Lowbrow says:
A lack of response will support my theory that Wizardry IS Avellone.
25/07/2012 at 11:07 Belsameth says:
Planescape without the DnD could work. It’s the story telling and the deeply personal quest that makes this game as awesome as it is. Oh, and the setting, so saying it’ll have a different “feel” from Torment does worry me a little. Well, a lot.
25/07/2012 at 11:27 ninjapirate says:
Speaking of D&D, even from a pen & paper RPG perspective Planescape could do better without it. Systems like Fate (Spirit of the Century), the Solar System (The Shadow of Yesterday) and Burning Wheel would be a perfect match for the PS setting!
25/07/2012 at 11:34 TillEulenspiegel says:
D&D is one of the few systems that’s trivially computerizable. Well, most of it. Gotta get rid of some spells, etc.
FATE? No way. Burning Wheel? Only with a lot of restrictions (a preset list of BITs, mostly).
25/07/2012 at 11:49 ninjapirate says:
Yes, I agree, the P&P systems I mentioned can’t be “computerized”. I was trying to make a point that Planescape, even in its original P&P form, never was able to live up to its potential with the D&D system.
From a P&P point of view, BW mechanics like the BITs and the Duel of Wits would have been absolutely perfect for PS.
25/07/2012 at 14:16 aliksy says:
nWoD would be pretty trivial to computerize. Much cleaner system than oWoD, which was successful in bloodlines and that other vampire game.
26/07/2012 at 12:42 ninjapirate says:
Hmm… While I haven’t played any of the WoD games yet, the newest edition was created by Monte Cook, who, coincidentally, also produced a lot of the Planescape source material.
25/07/2012 at 19:51 Arglebargle says:
Computerizing drek just leaves you with digital drek….
25/07/2012 at 13:18 Saul says:
Burning Wheel is the greatest thing. I’ve been listening to this campaign podcast: http://strandgamers.com/category/audio/inquisition-of-blood/
Pretty entertaining – it’s about a family of incompetent wizards. Pen-and paper RPGs are amazing, especially story-heavy ones. Where else can you get a 100+ hour story that’s improvised on the fly, and can thus veer off in absolutely any direction?
25/07/2012 at 15:01 Tacroy says:
Not just could, the original Planescape: Torment basically said “screw it, we’re doing our own thing” to a whole lot of the AD&D rules. It was a heavily house-ruled game, let me tell you.
25/07/2012 at 21:37 Werthead says:
I don’t think they have a choice from a legal/rights issue. Interplay still have the rights to TORMENT itself, whilst Wizards of the Coast have the rights to the D&D name. Doing an actual PLANESCAPE story would be difficult from that angle, especially as Wizards of the Coast have retired the actual PLANESCAPE setting and shown no signs of interest in bringing it back.
25/07/2012 at 11:08 Diogo Ribeiro says:
He already did a spiritual sucessor. It’s called Mask of the Betrayer.
Seriously, drop the idea of a PSt sequel and do something else.
25/07/2012 at 11:15 Bhazor says:
Kotor 2 was also similar in that it centered around an amnesiac piecing together his past. The difference being he just refuses to accept his past and the main themes of the game are about politics rather than philosophy. Nevertheless It is still a game where most of the real action, excitement and player involvement is through dialog rather than man stabs.
Also it’s in space but thats not as big a departure from Planescape as it sounds.
25/07/2012 at 17:05 Keeper_Deven says:
The Exile isn’t an amnesiac. S/he even has the chance to correct Atton’s account of the previous game’s events during their first conversation.
05/08/2012 at 20:24 woodsey says:
You sound much more like you’re describing KotOR. The second is more philosophical than political, and The Exile isn’t an amnesiac, whilst the first game’s protagonist is.
25/07/2012 at 11:35 Lobotomist says:
MOTB was awesome. But much smaller and less complex.
If anything it should at least have same scope as PT
25/07/2012 at 17:37 Diogo Ribeiro says:
What Keeper_Deven said. Plus, I could never get into Kotor2′s themes and characters. They felt either underdeveloped or heavy-handed, never striking the same kind of balance.
25/07/2012 at 17:53 JKjoker says:
MOTB was great but had potential to be AWESOME yet it was shackled by the incredible crappy nwn2 engine and the extremely stupid idea of going for the epic levels range (side effect of having to tie in the original campaign i guess), d&d3.5 was best at the lvl5~15 range
i would love for a game in a similar style, longer, more detailed and using a proper engine with a proper game system (or at least using d&d rules in their sweet spot)
25/07/2012 at 11:08 caddyB says:
I don’t doubt they can make a better story, but it would be very hard and most people would be too critical because of the rose-tinted glass syndrome.
What I actually want is a game like Icewind Dale 2 or Temple of Elemental Evil. I love ToEE, especially the combat.
25/07/2012 at 17:59 JKjoker says:
i absolutely freaking loved TOEE’s combat and the way the d&d rules were implemented, however i completely loathed EVERYTHING ELSE, sigh, then there was Arcanum where i hated the combat but i loved everything else, if only Troika had been able to get both things into one game…
25/07/2012 at 11:08 Dave says:
You’re wrong and you should feel bad. BG2 is the best ever RPG with Torment a close second. Also Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
25/07/2012 at 12:16 Belsameth says:
You, sir, are a giant idiot!
:D
25/07/2012 at 14:00 Unaco says:
A giant idiot perhaps he is. But his idiocy, massive though it may be, is still eclipsed by the idiocy of yourself.
25/07/2012 at 14:13 Syra says:
I know you are but what am I?
25/07/2012 at 11:10 FiX says:
Give me the writing and feel of Torment and make it a text adventure for all I care. Although the visual style was great too. We can only hope. And threaten.
*Fires up the core drill, pre-orders the black market russian nukes*
Just in case.
28/07/2012 at 00:46 Ragnar says:
Agreed. The setting, characters, writing, and story made that game. It would be harder to pull off as a text adventure, but entirely possible, and I would still love it.
25/07/2012 at 11:11 TheWhippetLord says:
Sounds more like a ‘spiritual sequel’ (that dreaded, wooly, term.) Strip out the AD&D/Planescape mythology and cosmology and you’d be left with something sort of like PS:T at best. So why shackle yourself at all to past expectations?
Probably best not to go there imo. And I say that as a rabid PS:T fan.
25/07/2012 at 16:36 Acorino says:
Spiritual sequel sounds fine to me!
25/07/2012 at 11:12 Echidna says:
It’s worth it! Let them do it. If it fails, it’d highlight PS:t again. If not we’d have an awesome game. Let them take their chances. Or we’ll never know!
25/07/2012 at 11:12 MeestaNob says:
Hmmm!
Wouldn’t he need access to the d&d license even if he wanted to make it the same as the original? Perhaps making it a point n click adventure would be through financial necessity rather than primarily an actual design one.
Still, I have this in the same category as Grim Fandango, ie games that were perfect and don’t need a sequel ever. I’d be more interested in a HD remake with a properly scaled interface and re-rendered cut scenes.
25/07/2012 at 11:13 yogibbear says:
Kickstarter page could simply read:
Torment 2 – We are gonna do it!
Within 2 minutes this would be funded to ASTRONOMICAL proportions. I think this could hit $20 million in 2 days.
25/07/2012 at 11:13 Lambchops says:
WARSCAPE!
PLANEFACE! (sounds a bit like an unfortunate accident in a workshop).
Seriosuly though, this must happen. Plus I fine myself nodding in agreement at the D&D stuff getting in the way. I’d definitely through money at a spiritual succesor to Planescape Torment.
25/07/2012 at 16:03 ResonanceCascade says:
I’m personally looking forward to the Planeface Warment FPS reboot.
25/07/2012 at 11:14 Poppis says:
Some years ago I bought a RPG mega pack from a brick and mortar shop. It included Baldur’s Gate, Fallout 2 and Planescape: Torment. I haven’t finished any of them. I’m sorry.
25/07/2012 at 11:40 Azradesh says:
You should hate yourself, really. Go finish them!
25/07/2012 at 12:00 RegisteredUser says:
Soooooooo tempted to write “Well at least it had one good game” and see what happens :P
25/07/2012 at 13:43 Xardas Kane says:
That’s evil. Genius, but evil. You should have gone for it :p
25/07/2012 at 11:16 Musey says:
What are the two greatest RPGs of all time? Undoubtably Planescape: Torment and Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines – based in P&P universes both. Do you see what I’m getting at here?
That’s right: we need a Paranoia RPG, stat!
25/07/2012 at 11:28 Tom OBedlam says:
Planescape: Bloodlines. I hear you, man.
Also, I feel you will appreciate my wallpaper.
http://www.b3tards.com/u/f9d89e8a11037c5bd200/desktop.jpg
25/07/2012 at 13:10 onetrueping says:
Actually, a Paranoia licensed game as an FPS-RPG with heavy multiplayer elements could be quite successful. Give people nine lives, have specific respawn points a la Left 4 Dead, and have the game play out a bit like the bank robbery multiplayer from Kane and Lynch or Heist (take out your buddies and stay alive for more points; keep together to survive better).
25/07/2012 at 11:17 Yosharian says:
First of all we need Planescape: Torment redone with better graphics, a better interface and an actual combat system. Then I might actually finish the damn thing.
25/07/2012 at 11:23 bladedsmoke says:
“This book is amazing – the plot, the characters, the style, it’s great! But I’m not going to finish it until it’s re-released with a better cover and a larger typeface.”
25/07/2012 at 11:29 Eddy9000 says:
Shame we aren’t talking about a book.
25/07/2012 at 11:38 ninjapirate says:
There are quite a few PS books out there, by the way. Four novels (including a trilogy) and more than a dozen D&D books, which are ripe with lore (though they’re expensive, since they’re collector’s items).
25/07/2012 at 12:13 sonofsanta says:
I would say it’s more like reading original Shakespeare. The characters and plots are second to none, but the language is impenetrable to a newcomer, and it takes much effort and study to become comfortable with it and start enjoying the story.
15 years of interface improvements, standardised controls and resolution increases may not be on quite the same scale as 400 years of changing English, but it still takes effort and determination to go backwards.
25/07/2012 at 13:57 trjp says:
Shakespeare is perfectly readable to anyone who’s remotely literate. He does use words which are no longer widely used or where the meaning has changed but that’s easily conquered.
The people who find Shakespeare hard to read are the people who think reading is purely about gaining information and not about painting amazing pictures with words.
See also anyone who thinks abstract art is ‘just splodges’ or ‘doesn’t look like anything’.
25/07/2012 at 14:40 sonofsanta says:
“easily conquered” still admits that it’s something that needs conquering. Planescape: Torment hardly needs an online training course to get into, but it still requires that additional motivation of “I want to play this” to get enjoyment out of it, rather than “I’ll give this a go and see if it grabs me” – which is a more normal frame of mind to approach a game with in these days of triple-figure Steam libraries, I would argue.
Likewise Shakespeare; most people are not going to pick it up at an airport bookshop on their way to a warm beach, they will deliberately pack it and make a concerted effort to read and enjoy it instead.
25/07/2012 at 14:52 DrGonzo says:
No, Shakespeare is very difficult to read without guidance. You must be mad to think any different. Well, either that or it just is fucking awful.
25/07/2012 at 14:55 Brun says:
Actually, some of Shakespeare’s plays are quite easy to read without guidance.
FAULKNER is bloody impossible to read without guidance.
25/07/2012 at 17:35 LintMan says:
I played PS:T for the first time not so long ago. If you use the setuo guide linked by KillahMate above, the game runs at pretty much any resolution you want and is largely bug free. You can even customize the font size for the in-game text. The UI is still dated, but it’s really not bad and generally doesn’t get in the way.
The effort to get the game set up was well worth it on pure gaming terms; I never felt like I was playing it just as historical curiosity like I did when I’ve played some other older games.
25/07/2012 at 13:21 Yosharian says:
No I’m sorry, Planescape is just horrible in the state it’s in. Combat is awful and the interface is absolute garbage. If ever there was a game in dire need of an overhaul/remake, it’s this one.
25/07/2012 at 11:49 juandemarco says:
I was actually entertaining the idea of starting a PS:T remake project a while back. When i pitched the idea on the forums of this very site, though, it was mercilessy shot down by the other users AND THEY WERE RIGHT. PS:T is a great game as it is, even with all its flaws. A remake wouldn’t really add much to it, and would risk distorting the spirit of game in a very bad way.
You might even find the thread if you dig deep enough.
25/07/2012 at 14:53 DrGonzo says:
The guys doing the BG remakes have said they may do Planescape after they have done the BG games. Dunno why they are wasting their time with BG, it was always the crap brother of Planescape.
26/07/2012 at 06:40 Tuco says:
The combat system in Torment was absolutely fine, Its only flaw was an annoying user interface getting in the way.
Ironically enough, it was supposed to be an improvement of the one used in Baldur’s Gate, but in the end it was quite the opposite.
25/07/2012 at 11:17 westyfield says:
FPS reboot pls.
25/07/2012 at 11:25 Lambchops says:
Laugh! As you see Morte chew off faces in the most visceral scenes in gaming history.
Cry! Fat chance, immortals have no time for tears.
A complex story replete with choices! Do you bash the door or pick the lock?
25/07/2012 at 11:34 byteCrunch says:
In all honesty, the dialogue and story of Planscape: Torment made it the great game it is, I do not see why making it first person would actually detract from the game. Though I am sure a million screaming people are about to tell me why. (Notice I said first person, not first person shooter.)
25/07/2012 at 12:07 TheWhippetLord says:
I could see a (really bad) Doom II style FPS sequel. “You are trapped in The Blood War. The only way out is through.” KA-CLICK
25/07/2012 at 13:46 greenbananas says:
Planescape: Invisible Torment?
25/07/2012 at 21:44 wererogue says:
I would kind of love to see an FPS where you could walk up to an NPC or inanimate object and initiate a dialogue tree in which you explore your lost memories via text.
25/07/2012 at 11:19 marbled says:
I’ve always been impressed by the amount of enthusiasm for this game, but I came into gaming just after the Baldur’s Gate/Planescape days, so have never played anything like this. For someone whose experience of RPGs is KOTOR, Witcher 2, Deus Ex etc, would I still find the original enjoyable to play or is it a bit too outdated?
25/07/2012 at 11:29 Lambchops says:
The comat is (to me at least) a but rubbish, but then i was never a fan of RPG combat of that era. This makes the opening hour or so a little bit turgid but it soon picks up and essentially becomes one of the best adventure games of all time. If you like a good adventure game with an intriguing cast of characters and a fascinating world then you’ll get on fine with it but don’t expect to find the combat particularly enjoyable, it’s great in spit of it rather than because of it. Then again I found the same with KotOR and it’s characters/plot/world were nowhere near as good as Torment’s so I’d give it a shot if I were you.
25/07/2012 at 11:31 TheWhippetLord says:
There are mods available to patch PS:T to modern resolutions, which I’d recommend if you try it. The combat is a bit clunky though, and many people find it a little on the verbose side. I think of PS:T as a kind of RPG/Adventure game hybrid, if that helps you to place it. I also find that many people I recommend it to come back frustrated at the text-walls and resenting the necrophilia jokes (there aren’t THAT many!)
So it comes down to how much you like reading I guess. The writing is the best part of the game by far, and if you tend to skip over text you might find the game a bit lacking.
25/07/2012 at 11:37 Lucretious says:
Wonderful story and great art, but the UI and the combat are absolutely miserable from today’s perspective.
25/07/2012 at 13:22 Yosharian says:
Try BG2 first. If you can cope with BG2, you might be able to cope with PS:T. Personally, I’m a die-hard BG2 fan and I found PS:T very difficult to get to grips with.
25/07/2012 at 13:46 UncleLou says:
I don’t know what the current state of BG2 mods is, but I am finding PS:T with the widescreen patch a much easier game to play than BG2, where everything becomes *tiny* in a modern resolution.
25/07/2012 at 13:29 KillahMate says:
Check my response in the first article comment, I linked to a guide which will help you easily patch Planescape to its optimal state.
25/07/2012 at 11:20 Quistnix says:
I still have a nice spare kidney I could sell. And who needs two lungs anyway?
25/07/2012 at 11:25 Kevin says:
The best RPG ever made had Planescape Torment’s story and Icewind Dale 2 or Temple of Elemental Evil’s combat. Sadly, that game hasn’t been made yet. Somehow, fate conspires to keep the two seperate.
25/07/2012 at 11:26 Flint says:
I’m all up for more of the story but please fix the gameplay, the combat system in the original was a dreadful mess.
25/07/2012 at 11:30 Ith says:
Trent Oster over at Beam Dog (the guys doing Baldurs Gate Enchanced) h ave already said they would love to do an enhanced version of Planescape. Could be fun seeing two former devs try to battle over the licence to remake it (my money is on Beam Dog who already have been given the licence to remake BG)
25/07/2012 at 11:33 Vorphalack says:
Wouldn’t be much of a fight if one is interested in an HD remake and one is interested in an off-licence sequel. Sounds more like they would compliment each other.
25/07/2012 at 13:56 FhnuZoag says:
If Mr Oster attempts to stop Mr Avellone from making Torment 2, then, FUCK HIM.
25/07/2012 at 16:34 Nick says:
considering what I have heard about BG enhanced, I’m inclined to say fuck him anyway.
25/07/2012 at 11:32 mouton says:
Nooooo, not every game needs sequels, dammit! Just make a new brilliant game, ffs!
25/07/2012 at 13:47 Kadayi says:
^This. I’m not entirely convinced by this isometric rosy eyed nostalgia trip tbh (I wonder what the sales are beyond a very vocal minority). I’m not a big fan of absolutes either (given the medium is still very much in its infancy) or that we should subscribe to certain ones without question (seems a bit cultish tbh). Personally I’d rather seem Obsidian work on a new IP, or if they are thinking sequel revisit Alpha Protocol as that had potential.
25/07/2012 at 15:33 KillahMate says:
You’re implying that Alpha Protocol has more sequel potential than Planescape did; I’m not sure I can agree with that. Maybe in terms of a strict sequel, but everybody is talking about a new game set in the same universe, which is far more interesting than an AP sequel could be.
25/07/2012 at 20:12 Kadayi says:
@KillahMate
I’d rather see Obsidian build on a progressive game than build on a known quantity. PS is very defined, where as with AP there’s more opportunity to expand things.
25/07/2012 at 11:32 mckertis says:
“but says the D&D elements actually “got in the way of the experience.””
I’d say what really got in the way of the experience, and WAS a dreadful mess – is that “experimental” GUI, with all those action rings and crap.
25/07/2012 at 11:33 Lobotomist says:
As great D&D nerd. I would be first to say scrap D&D.
Planescape version of D&D was abomination and only hurt the game in big way.
And if nothing else he will need to pay lot of money to WOTC for nothing.
Planescape (PC game) fans are not fans because its D&D , but because its a great RPG.
So go on. Build it upon SPECIAL (system they invented for Fallout) or something like that.
But please start that Kickstarter !
Take the money and shutup :D
25/07/2012 at 11:33 ninjapirate says:
Wait… are we talking about another game set in the Planescape multiverse or a spiritual successor to PS:T (which will be neither D&D, nor Planescape)? There’s a huge difference, the article’s headline could be misleading here.
25/07/2012 at 11:37 Alexander Norris says:
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY, CHRIS.
25/07/2012 at 11:55 TedDahlberg says:
Look, just take my wallet and I’ll go check for any spare change that’s slipped down the back of the sofa.
26/07/2012 at 12:18 orb says:
Take my gelt!
25/07/2012 at 11:42 Inigo says:
I don’t know about this. I remember reading something about Wizards Of The Coast being really leery about licensing properties that aren’t part of the current edition.
25/07/2012 at 11:43 Echidna says:
Torment isn’t about combat! It’s about the world and characters! I usually suck at the end of any given RPG game because tend to level up in a really erratic way. Torment doesn’t punish that if not encourage! I like to play talking. Persuasion is my weapon of choice. And no modern game makes social gameplay interesting enough to forget about primal desire to shoot and cut stuff.
In any given real life situation I’d try to talk my way through, not to shoot potential employer on the interview. It’s dialogue system in torment that makes spectacular immersion. Keep dialogues the same! That’s the main point of the game. Want combat? You have Mass Effect. Shoot stuff somewhere else. Let us have a proper conversation with incredibly sexy skull.
25/07/2012 at 13:02 SanguineAngel says:
I’m 100% with you there. and it was PS:T’s greatest strength for me, that the mechanics of the game were not just actually what I wanted from an RPG (IE not just a set of rules determining combat but interaction with the entire world) but were also thematically relevant.
25/07/2012 at 11:44 MOKKA says:
Maybe it’s worth checking out the Pathfinder Version of Planescape. From what I can tell they tried to create something very similar to Planescape.
It’s a shame Wizards of the coast practically abondened Planescape, it’s still my favourite P&P RPG Setting, although I never really played it.
25/07/2012 at 11:52 SlyTheSly says:
Wow, that would be soooooooo good.
The Nameless One does not need to appear though, Sigil and the Planes offer so many possibilities.
25/07/2012 at 11:53 Fhoenix says:
I don’t care about D&D much, but if the game is not set in Sigil, it would not be a proper sequel. Good writing, dimensional travel and metaphysics are all fine. But doing Planescape 2 without Planescape itself is like doing Shadowrun 2 without Shadowrun.
25/07/2012 at 12:43 drewski says:
Or Wasteland 2 without the Wasteland.
So…Fallout.
25/07/2012 at 11:54 RegisteredUser says:
I actually don’t know or care if it will be better or close to PST.
In the current state of affairs, isn’t any attempt at an RPG “like that” worth giving a shot, if just to see what happens?
25/07/2012 at 11:57 razorblade79 says:
A spritual successor is the only way this can be great. A sequel wouldn’t make any kind of sense.
Combat wasn’t a big part in it, I wouldn’t mind if they made an adventure game in that style – I played torment that way anyway.
25/07/2012 at 12:03 jstar says:
Why are you so in favor of this John? Chris Avellone hasn’t made a game anywhere near as good since the original Planescape. Plus he is on record as saying that he wished it had less talking in it and more combat. AND he has said that he wants to dump the D&D and Planscape license!?! He’s like the George Lucas of games who in turn is the Fritzl of film.
All of Obsidians recent games have been shockingly written and look at the absolute horror show that Dungeon Siege III was. And you want this man to get stuck into one of the most beloved PC games of all time?
WHY!?!?!?!
25/07/2012 at 12:18 Revisor says:
You, sir, have not played the Fallout NV DLCs, especially Old World Blues and Lonesome Road.
Really, go play them now and be astonished.
25/07/2012 at 12:41 drewski says:
The only horrific thing about Dungeon Siege III is the camera.
Everything else is rather lovely, for what it is (ie a co-op action hack’n'slash with a silly story.)
25/07/2012 at 13:40 Xardas Kane says:
KOTOR 2 had great writing, New Vegas had great writing, Dungeon Siege 3′s writing achieved what it set out to do, even Alpha Protocl had great writing. Their games are buggy and unfinished, but accusing them of bad writing seems rather senseless to me.
25/07/2012 at 14:18 Revisor says:
Their buggy games, KOTOR2 and Alpha Protocol, were buggy because of unreasonable pressure from the publishers and releasing the game before it is done. There are articles with more details on the wide internet.
25/07/2012 at 15:36 Xardas Kane says:
Not in the case of AP. It was just the wrong guy making the design decisions. But KOTOR 2 was definitely made in an astonishingly small timeframe.
25/07/2012 at 14:17 stupid_mcgee says:
Avellone didn’t work on Dungeon Siege III. He was working, instead, as the project director and lead creative designer on the Fallout: New Vegas DLCs; Old World Blues, Lonesome Road, and Dead Money.
25/07/2012 at 12:39 drewski says:
DO IT
DO IT NOW
HAVE YOU DONE IT YET?
25/07/2012 at 12:39 Gira says:
Sorry, Walker, but Fallout is the greatest RPG of all time. That’s not shorthand for anything not worth mentioning: 1997 Fallout or bust.
A Planescape sequel could work, but they need to abandon the Infinity Engine’s dreadful RTwP system and adopt an elegant turn-based system, like the one in Temple of Elemental Evil. People will cry and wail and moan that it isn’t Cinematic Emotional Button: Awesome Action at first but if they’re not complete homunculi they’ll get used to it and enjoy it.
25/07/2012 at 12:42 drewski says:
Criticising the Torment combat system is more or less Doom Talk to the Monsters Mk. II.
25/07/2012 at 14:03 Runs With Foxes says:
Because it’s all about the emotion, men.
25/07/2012 at 14:51 Doesn'tmeananything says:
You’re hereby welcome to present how Torment’s combat system is superior to that of Temple of Elemental Evil. Or just argue that it’s worthwhile in some way.
25/07/2012 at 15:02 Unaco says:
I’m not sure you understood his comment. He’s not saying that Torment has better combat than ToEE.
Do you know what ‘if only you could talk to the monsters’ refers to? It was the last line from an old, old review of DOOM, when it was released. A cry that the game only has action/combat/shooting, and that you can’t interact with the monsters in the game. Looking back, it’s a very, very silly thing to say. DOOM wasn’t trying to do interaction with monsters, beyond having them shoot you (or each other), and them being shot by you. It was all about the combat.
Drewski is drawing a parallel between ‘if only I could talk to the monsters’ in DOOM, and ‘if only they used this combat system’ in PST. DOOM wasn’t about, and never should be about talking to monsters. PST was never about, and any sequel shouldn’t be about, the combat.
*To be honest, I think the parallel is a little bit of a push with PST, myself. PST was never really about the combat… it was a small part of the game, and not its focus. But, it was part of the game, so making it good is good for the game, as opposed to DOOM where dialogue was never part of the game.
25/07/2012 at 15:32 mckertis says:
I remember when Diablo was still considered an RPG, i read one review of Diablo 2, that berated it for not having utilitary magic. No idea what the guy was expecting…
25/07/2012 at 15:34 Gira says:
I don’t give a shit whether or not you think It’s All About The Story – if it’s going to be an RPG it needs a decent character development system and concomitant combat mechanics. Let the story build on that. To do otherwise is to race to the pits of wailing despair in which BioWare is now (admittedly very profitably) wading.
Why would you even protest that? Are you seriously suggesting it’s okay for it to have crap combat? The entire point of Torment was that you were presented with multiple approaches to quest outcomes, with combat always being a viable path. Why wouldn’t you want that to be good? Do you actually seriously want the game to solely consist of clicking through dialogue trees?
Frankly, if this is going to happen, I’d actually like to see a lot more consequential interaction taking place outside of dialogue trees – “choice” dialogues are one of the laziest means of implementing player agency.
25/07/2012 at 15:53 Unaco says:
@Gira…
What the f*ck? Did you bother to read the last paragraph of my post? Look, I’ll quote it, maybe you can read it this time (sorry, you have to read it, there’s no combat option for this encounter)…
“PST was never really about the combat… it was a small part of the game, and not its focus. But, it was part of the game, so making it good is good for the game“
I even bolded the important parts. What part of that is protesting changes to combat? What part says that I’m OK with the game having crap combat? How does that not say “I think that good combat would be good for the game”?
25/07/2012 at 16:53 Doesn'tmeananything says:
@Unaco
Right, the bizarre comparison (which I though was used an example of just generic and idiotic videogame criticism) threw me off.
Still, saying that the combat was a small and unimportant part of the game seems a bit strange, since it was one of the two ways of actually interacting with the game. Obviously, compared to branching dialogues, it also had much more mechanical complexity. A complete and utter failure in practically every regard, but without it Torment would stop being an RPG and would very tentatively hold the title of ‘game’.
25/07/2012 at 13:02 Jams O'Donnell says:
Torment seemed a pretty nicely self-contained story, and I found the Planescape setting to be very interesting. I think I’d prefer another Planescape game to another Torment game.
25/07/2012 at 13:46 Prokroustis says:
Very much that.
25/07/2012 at 13:04 Xardas Kane says:
Oh God please, please, please, please do it, do it, do it do it, AVELLONE, DO IT! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEYZ!!!
I would have been worried if the guy had lost his mojo, but he hasn’t. New Vegas was the best thing Fallout since 2, Alpha Protocl was an amazing RPG (and a bad video game, but at least the RPG part was done right, if anyone’s interested, the failure of the game can be attributed to a studio owner playing game designer) and the complete version KOTOR 2 with all the content that was planned but had to be cut because of the ridiculously short development time is actually a lot better than the original, an absolutely classic that never was.
Please, Avellone, kickstart it, please…
25/07/2012 at 13:17 Bobby Oxygen says:
I hope they just do a old school RPG with the same quality of writing as PS:T. I’d rather see something original instead of trying to tie it in with, or make it feel similar to PS:T.
25/07/2012 at 13:23 malkav11 says:
To me, it’s not so much the mechanics that would hurt a Kickstarted Torment sequel, it would be the need to acquire the D&D license and the Torment license both (assuming they’re separate). I’m not sure exactly how much that would cost or how fraught the negotiations would be, but why saddle the limited budget of a Kickstarter project with that nonsense. Make a game with a similarly cool setting, heavy narrative emphasis, etc. Don’t make a sequel.
25/07/2012 at 13:25 lofaszjoska says:
Why would you want to write another game about The Nameless One.
He now knows his name, we know what can change the nature of a man, what else is there to say?
Making a direct sequel to PS:T would be pointless. Now, something in the veins of Torment, that’s something different entirely.
25/07/2012 at 13:29 equatorian says:
Omigod, Chris.
My bank account was made for THIS DAY. Do it. Do eeet!
P.S. Doing something original while having some throwback references to diehard fans won’t be a bad idea at all. If one is keeping the planewalking concept, one can always make references to a horribly scarred dude who’s consigned to a neverending war to repent for his sins or something like that without invoking the lords of copyright, right?
25/07/2012 at 13:34 KillahMate says:
I think everybody agrees that a new game in the Planescape setting (or a proxy) would be preferable to a sequel to Torment. Maybe a few characters could guest star, but that’s enough.
Also, for anyone who cares: check my response to the first comment, I posted a link to a guide that helps you quickly patch Planescape to an optimal state, including hi-res, widescreen, zero bugs, lost quest content restored, etc.
25/07/2012 at 13:58 corinoco says:
Yes. Oh, yes.
It must be in there air; here am I sitting up in bed installing PS:T on my EEE701 in Wine, just thought I’d look at RPS while I wait.
Rule-of-three… So what’s the third thing?
How about Planescape:Mildly Unpleasant?
25/07/2012 at 16:32 wererogue says:
I love playing Torment on the EEE – it’s just the perfect size for the artwork.
25/07/2012 at 14:08 trjp says:
Let’s step-back a bit here. PS:T is famous for it’s story, plot, atmosphere and being a shiny beacon in old-school RPGs.
The fact it was hard-to-find for a long time fuels this mythos.
Any sequel would be a different beast tho – people’s expectations are different now. No-one would want another game in that engine or with that combat or interface – no-one would make one.
People would expect a new game to have more voice work, more combat options, better graphics and so on. It would, in effect, be a modern RPG set in the Planescape world with the same level of story and atmosphere.
It would be a different game entirely – so what you think of PS:T is academic really – isn’t it?
25/07/2012 at 14:10 b0rsuk says:
Caution ! Uwaga ! Внимание ! Achtung !
it doesn’t say Planescape: Torment sequel, just Planescape 2. Planescape is the world, Torment is the story arc. It’s fully possible to make another story within this world that doesn’t involve The Nameless One.
Avellone only refers to Torment as the past game in the interview, and calls the new game “a Planescape game”. He doesn’t imply anywhere that he’s going to bring TNO back.
25/07/2012 at 14:16 Hoaxfish says:
I think I’d like to see Wasteland 2 finished since he’s working on that apparently.
Then I’d like to see something new.
WotC’s abandonment of Planescape makes me wonder how far he would actually get if he has to negotiate with them over licenses.
25/07/2012 at 14:22 stupid_mcgee says:
It’s not so much WoTC, but Hasbro that he’d have to negotiate with.
25/07/2012 at 14:18 Jackablade says:
I’m sorry Mr Avellone, but if you make any move to make a direct sequel to Torment, I’m going to have to stop you. By force if necessary. By all means use the philosophical musings and constructs, the peculiarities of the world and its peoples – these are things that could be explored further and in new ways than what we saw in Torment. The characters and narrative however should be considered sacrosanct – their story is ended. Reopening it will only weaken what came before, and that can’t be allowed to happen.
I guess given that he’s looking at working without the Planescape license, Sigil and many of the other settings, characters and concepts won’t be able to be used so any attempt at a follow up is going to necessarily be fairly removed from what we saw in Torment. Ultimately, I think he’d be far better just to run with something entirely new, although I suppose sticking the Torment title on it will help with the Kickstarting.
25/07/2012 at 14:19 aliksy says:
I’d love to see a sequel that doesn’t use D&D. Mostly because D&D is a shitty, shitty system with too much legacy bullshit.
Let’s use a system that covers talky bits with something more complex than “Make a charisma/int/wis check” when combat has buckets and subsystems.
Torment ignored a bunch of D&D rules anyway, so there’s precedent.
25/07/2012 at 15:00 Jason Moyer says:
I think this would be the one kickstarter that I would actually pool a pile of money together for in order to pledge at a high tier.
25/07/2012 at 15:05 zeroskill says:
Do it now. I will pay with money.
25/07/2012 at 15:32 Sparkasaurusmex says:
*Know* this kickstarter will succeed.
25/07/2012 at 16:43 wererogue says:
It is known
25/07/2012 at 15:41 povu says:
A busy man indeed. Along with South Park he’s also helping out with Wasteland 2, and he’ll be both writing for and featuring in the upcoming second season of the fan series Nuka Break.
25/07/2012 at 16:04 NathanH says:
He’d be better off not making it an RPG, but rather an elaborate graphical choose-your-own-adventure game. That was the strength of the original game, it is a pretty terrible RPG in truth.
25/07/2012 at 19:48 Vinraith says:
Exactly. It does no one any favors when you try to shoe horn RPG mechanics into a game where they simply don’t fit. Better to concentrate on the story (which is clearly what’s important, both to Avellone and the fan base) and then build something appropriate and non-intrusive around that.
26/07/2012 at 09:53 pipman3000 says:
(wizardry is currently away so i’ll be substituting him for this post)
yes and why not have jennifer hippo-ler and bethes-duh make it too if you’re going to turn it into a casual game for babies. let todd shitler coward smear his sweaty fat ass all over it and shit it in a box and call it a game and morons from pc gamer will call it goty planescape torment was a terrible rpg anyway because it wasn’t turnbased and didn’t let you make your own party it might as well been a j-”rpg”.
(disclaimer: the opinions and actions of wizardry do not reflect those of the person doing this impersonation, wizardry is not a role-model, he’s not even a real person, he’s a cartoon.)
25/07/2012 at 16:39 Wooly says:
Baldur’s Gate was better!!
/ancient fanboy wars
25/07/2012 at 16:42 wererogue says:
Things that I would want to see in a spiritual successor to Torment:
* Action in branching text options
So much of the power of Torment is that stuff happens. All the time. Think back over the game – how many of the crazy and awesome things that went on did you actually see? I barely saw any of it, outside of my head. Torment is a pretty frontend on an interactive novel.
* Story inspired by gameplay
Mazes, amnesia, mimirs, past lives, immortality… a lot of what made Torment feel so personal was that we were doing the things that happened to the main character. A lot of little game conveniences were canonized, reducing the amount of time you spent playing the game but not in the story. This is the same effect as the first time you here the Prince of Persia say “No no, that’s not how it happened”, or when the Animus resets you for doing something out of character for the ancestor.
* Big setting, regardless of game scope
The beauty of doors in Torment is that we get to experience quite a lot of the planes in tiny ways, making it feel like the rest – all the stuff you hear about from planewalkers, touts and anybody else – is there as well, and if you’d just said something different maybe you’d be going to hang out with the Githzerai in the plane of elemental chaos instead…
25/07/2012 at 17:00 Malk_Content says:
Best thing about Planescape: Torment? Being able to level several times and gain unique combat abilities by having a conversation about philosophy and meta-magic with a party member.
25/07/2012 at 18:51 pilouuuu says:
It should be a game in a similar universe, about similar topics like the nature of a man. It should be based on playing more based on the story and with less crappy action. Like an interactive book with an amazing story. That’s where the similarities end.
There’s no need for it to have the Planescape license, or continue an story that’s already finished or use D&D as long as Avellone is involved it can be great!
25/07/2012 at 19:10 Shazbut says:
As long as he aims to make a deep and complex game in the style of PS:T, he could set it on the moon for all I care.
25/07/2012 at 19:31 The Army of None says:
Oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please.
25/07/2012 at 20:20 Navagon says:
So… A Torment sequel that’s not Planescape and doesn’t feature any of the locations, characters, history or rules that defined the first game. It almost certainly won’t be using the same combat engine (thankfully) and the game will generally have a different feel to it.
So in other words he wants to do another RPG and intends to hype it by saying it might be a bit like Torment, only not.
Not that I’m saying that no good can come of this. Something amazing might come of this. But let’s not pretend it’s Torment. All that does is set an impossibly high bar for his new game before it can even be called a concept.
25/07/2012 at 22:44 Jerktown says:
Isn’t it generally going to have the same feel to it? That seems to be what the interview points towards.
25/07/2012 at 23:12 The love doctor says:
I have never before been tempted to put money into a Kickstarter, but I think this would change my mind.
26/07/2012 at 10:55 luckystriker says:
I’d kickstart the shit outta this one.
26/07/2012 at 22:27 feoinc says:
I say we do a kickstarter to raise money to bribe Mr Avellone to do a kickstarter to raise money to do Torment 2, everyone loves kickstarters, doesn’t it?