Valve References “Next-Gen” Source 2 In Filmmaker Files

By Adam Smith on August 6th, 2012 at 10:08 am.

The lighting will be better

Valve’s Source engine is eight years old, which makes me feel eighty years old, but the tech hasn’t been in stasis since housing the bleak blocks of City-17. All of the iterations and updates may soon be a thing of the past though if the discoveries of the sleuths over at Valvetime.net are as intriguing as they seem. Eurogamer spotted that Valvetime spotted that the Source Filmmaker script files contain “60+ references” to Source 2, making it distinctly possible that the new engine will be here sooner rather than later.

”’Return an str with the current engine version. If key doesn’t doesn’t exist, assume ‘Source’, otherwise invalid — assume next-gen ‘Source 2′.”’

What’s all that about then?

It’s tempting to start shouting about games that end in a ’3′ but given Newell’s recent words about operating systems, there’s a good chance that the big story about Source 2 might include a shift to OpenGL rather than DirectX, making Linux, in Valve’s eyes at least, the “next-gen” of PC gaming.

With the current version of Source considered, by Valve, to be a distinct entity from the first release in many ways, for any possible “next-gen” Source 2 to be a graphical update, no matter how significant, might be seen as a deviation from the company’s previous philosophy concerning their engine. A change of focus to OpenGL and Linux seems like a much more fundamental generational change than new technology, which Valve has been providing for years without feeling the need to stick a number on the end of their engine.

The next chapter of Half Life, whether episode or sequel in name, is surely the natural choice to launch any possible Source 2 though, with Ricochet 2 not yet ready for the big stage. When Valve employees can send the internet into a fit of the vapours by wearing the wrong t-shirt in the right place, it’s tempting to take any news that causes cries of HALF LIF3 with a slug-sapping dose of salt, but Valvetime’s discoveries seem compelling and it’s hard to imagine Source 2 without Half Life 3. Then again, it was hard to imagine the wait would ever be this long.

Source 2′s timing could also fit with the arrival of the next generation of Playboxes or this whole thing could be the beginning of an ARG that reveals a teaser for the release date of the release date of a new Left 4 Dead map. It might even be incorrect to pin these coded references on “Valve” rather than Jimmy Gubbins, the cheeky intern. These are dangerous times. The Speculatron is spitting out gouts of unhealthy smoke and it’s not even lunchtime.

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152 Comments »

  1. Archipelagos says:

    Welp, that’s as far as Source goes then. It ain’t reaching Source 3, that’s for sure.

    • Nemon says:

      It feels as I’ve been waiting for news like this Half my Life.

      • The Infamous Woodchuck says:

        come on, we’ve seen this coming anyways, its not like they’re gonna leave pc gamers for dead.

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          RaveTurned says:

          Yeah, but it’s hard to get anything concrete from Valve about future releases. That Team is locked down like a Fortress.

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            jezcentral says:

            It’s hard to tell what’s what, with all these rumours Ricocheting around.

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            jezcentral says:

            Actually, Strike that. Counter to my original point, there may be something to this.

          • Shadram says:

            It’s now only a matter of time until they port all their games to Linux.

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            GrantNZ says:

            That will be a day of defeat for Windows users.

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            VelvetFistIronGlove says:

            iD and Epic had better watch out. The Day that Source 2 is released will be their Defeat.

          • Srethron says:

            This Shift to a new Source Engine is going to leave people looking through Blue screens of death. I hope Valve reaches into their Gearbox and brings out suitable tools to Force people Opposing their move into a Portal to linux, otherwise Steam will Ricochet onto the Coast and all hope will be Lost, along with the Borealis, D3D rendered crowbars, all threes. We can’t allow that to happen. I want my Dota to have a beta future than me.

          • Suits says:

            I hope that weighty pun was worth it.

          • Bimble says:

            I find aliens warm

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            MajorManiac says:

            Gord’ only knows. Perhaps they’ll finaly leave Microsoft behind and become Freeman.

          • theleif says:

            Combine all rumours and we will get closer to the truth.

          • Eukatheude says:

            I hope they Cave in to fan pressure, this time.

          • Geen says:

            What are, Apunture Science?

      • f1x says:

        I Gabe up on this pun threads, they just dont feel Newell any more

    • Scandalous_J says:

      Hilarious, I hope that joke nets you a hundred virgins.

    • thematrix606 says:

      Are you saying it will be as if they Left the source engine For Dead?

  2. Onaka says:

    Who exactly is this news to? I mean, Valve, working on a NEW VERSION OF SOURCE? Woooow. Nobody sure saw that one coming!

    • iniudan says:

      Still more news worthy then steam having a sale.

      • Onaka says:

        Suppose you’re right there.

      • neonordnance says:

        Rubbish. Steam sales are like festivals of PC gaming. I got like 12 games last time.

        • iniudan says:

          Then you on a festival on everyday of the years, except Monday (and there is often exception =p).

          • Jason Moyer says:

            There are what, 2 massive Steam sales a year?

          • thematrix606 says:

            @Jason,

            Spring, summer, autumn, winter sales. Plus random dailies, plus random weekend, plus random packs, plus random flash sales, I could keep going. There’s literally at least 1 game for sale every day on Steam :D

            Still over priced, but shh :P

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            MajorManiac says:

            But I think there are only 2 big’ns.

          • Barnaby says:

            Ok a few things…

            1) @thematrix606 If games on Steam are overpriced you should take a look at the pricing of console games. Also, they absolutely are not overpriced. I generally have a ceiling of 20 dollars for most games unless it’s something I really want and I am almost always able to adhere to this policy. I generally do all of my shopping for games on Steam. While Amazon, GMG, and other retailers offer better prices on some games, you are out of touch with reality if you think the games during Steam sales are over-priced.

            2) @iniudan First, Steam’s summer and Christmas sales are most definitely awesome, not only for the price drops, but also because they do other things to engage the community such as ARG’s and other fun tid bits. It’s not always my cup of tea, but it isn’t just about price drops. Most importantly, then != than.

            3) @Onaka There are plenty of times when RPS posts something they feel warrants a post, and somebody such as yourself feels they need to talk shit about why they posted it. Currently there are 144 comments on this article so obviously somebody gives a shit.

            Maybe I’m coming across as a Valve apologist, but I just get tired of reading lazy comments that add nothing to the conversation. /me whistles and walks away

  3. roryok says:

    I think we all know what this means. It’s been a long time coming. Counterstrike source 2

  4. Utsunomiya says:

    Does it mean that Valve will release a Half-Life 2: Source 2 rather soon?

  5. virtualmatrix258 says:

    A move to OpenGL…another move towards Linux. I approve of this.

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      mrwonko says:

      They already (partially) moved to OpenGL when they did Mac ports, I would assume?

    • Baboonanza says:

      Everything in the post is pure speculation, and as noted Source (along with many other engines) already has an OpenGL layer. You don’t even need to design an engine around Linux because the vast majority of engine code is (relatively) platform agnostic.

      And despite Valve not generally aiming at the high-end of graphical performance there is only so far you can push an 8 year old engine before larger structural changes are necessary to keep up with modern advancements.

      The other focus of modern engines is the tool-chain and production workflow so IMO that will be the major focus of any Source 2.

  6. CaspianRoach says:

    I just hope it’s more optimized than the current one. Source’s map load time and upper dimension limits are embarassing for today’s standarts.

    • Yosharian says:

      What a pointless comment. “Man I sure hope this new tech is better than this old tech!”

    • Magnusm1 says:

      It’s hard to find an engine that is more optimized than Source. And TF2-maps take about 15 seconds to load even without an SSD.
      BF3 on the other hand..

      • LionsPhil says:

        And TF2-maps take about 15 seconds to load even without an SSD.

        I admit my drive is dog-slow, but I’m closer to 30. Meanwhile Just Cause 2 is streaming this gigantic detailed island chain as I shoot about over it in a jet plane without chug or pop-in. The whole “LOADING” segmentation you get in Half-Life/Portal really is looking creaky now that streaming environments are the norm, and it was already leaning that way when P2 was released.

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          ffordesoon says:

          This. Love Valve games, think they’re terrific, HATE the loading screens.

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        DarkLiberator says:

        BF3 takes like only a few seconds for me and I don’t even have an SSD, on the other hand, TF2 is stuck on retrieving server info for like 20 seconds then waiting for cilent info.

      • disperse says:

        2 seconds for map resources, 13 seconds for the hats.

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          jrodman says:

          Oh, I was all set to grump about for those unwanted level loading times. But now that I realize it’s hat-loading times, I will smile beneath my tri-cornered fez.

    • LionsPhil says:

      “Fundamentally changing the design” is not “optimization”.

    • Milky1985 says:

      I agree here, the loading times for source stuff is just stupid, it is now the slowest loading “thing” on my computer, BF3 loads quicker with its sodding huge maps!

      Connecting to servers can take a while tho :P

    • zeroskill says:

      The newest version of source loads in split seconds for me. Meaning Dota 2 and Portal 2. Older source games still have this problem though.

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      Zephro says:

      I still don’t really ever get this complaint. Without an SSD it only takes a few seconds to load stuff…. do people just not have any patience these days?

      My friends keep telling to get and SSD to install Windows 7 on, seems to reduce the OS loading times from 1:30s to 30s…. or I could just go put the kettle on while it’s loading.

      • LionsPhil says:

        Noticable level transitions are immersion-interrupters. For TF2, that’s just less time to taunt in the spawn area, but it does hit a bit more in Half-Life/Portal, especially given Valve are really big on the continuous, uninterrupted viewpoint school of narrative. It also chokes the level design just a little bit, since you want to hide such loading areas ideally in narrow bits of twisty corridor and such where you can’t see ahead and won’t need to backwheel while fighting. (Portal 1 hides them in lifts, for example, until you get backstage—and then you’re into “THOU SHALT NOT TELL ME YOU ARE LOADING” sin territory.)

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          Zephro says:

          Never broken my immersion. Then again I am a rational person and am aware it is a game, on a computer, with finite limitations.

          Couldn’t give a toss.

          • Deston says:

            Don’t see what all this fuss is about these motorcars lately. My horse gets me from A to B just fine thanks!

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            Zephro says:

            Yeah except it’s nothing like that. It’s a matter of 10-15 seconds. That has never broken my immersion once, except with bad design like in Oblivion.

            Streaming in environments with a low draw distance annoys me far more.

          • Deston says:

            It wasn’t a literal analogy, I was just being facetious because the implication you ended up making there was that rational people wouldn’t care about technological improvements.

          • LionsPhil says:

            I said “interrupt”, not “break”. Don’t overstate me as making a big deal about it just so you can claim you’re above it being a big deal for you.

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          bear912 says:

          While I’m a bit skeptical that they’re going to migrate Windows code to OpenGL, I wouldn’t be surprised if they abandoned BSP (or at least hugely modified it) and developed a streaming level format. I’d love to see Half-Life 3 use some well-optimized level streaming. For Half-Life 2 and Portal, the “paused” loading screens were alright, a sort of necessary evil. The loading screens in Portal 2, though, were immersion-breaking for me, even if they were entertaining. If they could eliminate them entirely, with minimal sacrifices to visual fidelity and draw distance, I’d be very happy.

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            bear912 says:

            More likely than any of these things, though, is a retooled SDK. There have been rumors of a new level editor called “Foundry” for a while, now, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see this get released. Level streaming and a new level editor would probably do worlds of good for Source.

    • InternetBatman says:

      I really like Portal and Portal 2, but the load times do feel kind of outdated. To be honest, the whole engine feels outdated what with the new Unreal Engine coming right around the corner.

  7. DeFiBkIlLeR says:

    And you guys don’t think Valve would be clever enough to put this in deliberately..

    Viral marketing at it’s finest…throw out the bait, and reel them in.

    • The Hammer says:

      Is there any logic to your comment? I can’t find it.

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        jrodman says:

        It’s mostly an amusing way to look at the world. But it’s entirely logical, even if you think it’s implausible.

        Your post could have offered more.

  8. waywardson says:

    I hope this means Lost Coast 2, it’s the sequel I’ve been waiting for.

  9. Premium User Badge

    TheApologist says:

    *makes convulsive excited noise*

  10. kael13 says:

    A move to OpenGL would be huge. It could pave the way for other developers to shift over as well. With Valve’s new market on the Mac, it would, in a way, make sense; DirectX being Windows only.

    • Eclipse says:

      there’s no move to OpenGL and I explained that on my other post, the whole DirectX vs OpenGL debacle is also very stupid, and while DirectX runs only on windows and xbox, OpenGL it’s not used on consoles, PS3 and Wii games commonly doesn’t use OpenGL as Nintendo and Sony have their own low-level libraries, optimized for that console hardware.
      OpenGL is used only on windows, mac and linux, while OpenGL ES is on basically every embedded system with 3d graphics capabilities (modern smartphones)

      • iniudan says:

        Yes but code transfer from OpenGL to OpenGL ES is much easier then from DirectX. So it make it easier for them to make a Source ES, which should also make transfer from one game engine to the other, thus opening them all market with has less complexities has possible.

        • Eclipse says:

          in a game engine like source, opengl or directx related code is very, very little. Even my own engine has just few files with opengl and direct3d code, all the big stuff is cross platform and\or written to be abstract.
          Source engine already has an opengl renderer anyway, as it runs on OS X.

    • Eclipse says:

      As I said on my older post:
      Source engine already works both with OpenGL AND DirectX, there’s no need for a shift, most high level game engines use both API and have multi-rendering systems.
      A DirectX renderer is best on Windows and is needed on xbox, while OpenGL is needed on mac and linux. PS3 instead uses a library on it’s own, so Source engine has at least three different “renderers” already, I dubt “Source 2″ means a shift to OpenGL because there’s no need for that at all actually!

  11. Tei says:

    Look at the awesome things people has made with the ancient Source. Now imagine the stuff people will do with a refreshed engine. I say “Is about time” if this rumour become real.

    Unreal seems getting all the attention, and while thats Ok because is a good engine. Source 2 could provide a more straigforward alternate, for these that don’t buy his stuff in IKEA.

  12. WoundedBum says:

    Hmm that Source doesn’t seem very convincing.

  13. wodin says:

    Linux..how many use it..I’ve never even seen it running…however with Win 8 out soon and at some point I will want a new OS after Win 7 (which I’m more than happy with) and if Win 8 is anything to go by I certainly will be looking for something than that or any future MS OS especially if Linux gets full support. Looks like it will be Linux then.

    • iniudan says:

      I use it on both my laptop and desktop (each have a partition of Windows 7 also).

      But if you want to look for a Linux distribution, I suggest you go to distrowatch.com, they have extensive listing available, with lot of information. And if you want to do basic try out, can just get a live CD or USB going, which let you run the OS without installing.

      But for new comer I currently suggest Mint with Cinnamon desktop (not that there is anything wrong with other desktop, it just that it is the one most similar to windows for it GUI disposition without the extreme number of option of KDE, which might be too much for those just arriving) or Ubuntu (with whatever desktop you prefer).

      Reason for that suggestion, is that they tend to have better graphical package manager (called software center under Ubuntu) then most distro, which is really the most troublesome part for newcomer, since Windows gave people habit to get software from third party source, while still possible on Linux, you better going through the package manager (think of it has a mix between Windows Update and Steam if you like), has those should have tested compatibility, their update are integrated into system update and install/uninstall/download is fully automated. You should only go to third party if you don’t find what you need in the package manager.

      • InternetBatman says:

        I put Mint on my Netbook and I’m pretty happy with it. I’m neither very experienced with Linux nor a power-user, but after about an hour or two I was able to get everything working the way I like.

        I love it as an operating system. Windows 7 slowed down the netbook to the point that it was mostly unusable. Mint on the other hand has it running almost as seamlessly as a normal computer. It has a few kinks, but it can do things like flawlessly hook up to the networked printer, and installation is pretty easy once you know what packages to get. Just download and double click, just like windows.

        The important thing about it is that most things just work, and I’d love to use it as my primary operating system once a few more utilities and games make their way over to it.

    • Sheng-ji says:

      You’ll find a fair percentage of people here run it. I’ve run it in the past and at the moment Windows 7 is doing just fine but I would go back in an instant if what I’ve heard about Windows 8 is true.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      I run Debian on an old laptop (one from around the early release of Win XP ~2001) and it runs as a functional machine (browsing the internet in bed, doc editing, network diagnostic, but not flash streaming).

      In terms of responsiveness for the (limited) tasks I use it for, it’s as good as my main desktop machine which is a slightly boosted machine (more RAM, graphics card) from around 2005 running Win XP

      I did try Ubuntu for a while, but I’ve found the latest versions don’t work on my older hardware due to changes in the graphical setup, as well as a lot of “graphics gloss/tabletising” making a bit of a mess.

      • iniudan says:

        Ubuntu’s Unity desktop is also the most resource intensive Linux desktop, which doesn’t really help on old hardware, did you try it with one of the less intensive desktop, like LXDE (Lubuntu) or XFCE (Xubuntu) ?

        • Hoaxfish says:

          yea, I settled on Debian + XFCE

        • uh20 says:

          that was just a temporary problem as canonical couldnt wait to release their new desktop with tons of performance problems

          ubuntu12.10 developmental desktop already uses around %30 less resources, and although i would still rather have lubuntu on my slow computers, it is getting better

          besides, steam, (and probably most other companies) are going to support mainly ubuntu for its mainstream, so might as well stick with it until canonical does something increasingly stupid

  14. coldvvvave says:

    Within a week, there will be Gaben, running the world.

    • rei says:

      No, within six months.

    • fiddlesticks says:

      “Your appointment to Valve should be finalized within the week, I have already discussed the matter with Gabe Newell.”

      “I take it he was agreeable?”

      “He didn’t really have a choice.”

      “Has he been hungry?”

      “Oh, yes, most certainly. When I mentioned that we could put him on the priority list for the donut shop, he was so willing it was almost pathetic.”

      “This Next-Gen Source engine — the rumours are intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain them.”

      “Why contain them? Let them spill over into the blogs and papers, let the hype pile up on the Internet. In the end, they’ll beg us to release it.”

      “We have other problems.”

      “CryEngine 3?”

      “Formed by Crytek to create Crysis 2. I have someone in place though. I’m more concerned about Epic Games. They’re planning to release Unreal Engine 4.”

      “Our facial animations are far in advance of theirs, as are our NPC animations. And their … lack of modability has allowed us to make progress in areas they refuse to consider.”

      “The Source filmmaker?”

      “Among other things. But I must admit that I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of videos featuring hats.”

      “The secondary filmmaker should be online soon. It’s currently undergoing preparation and will be operational within six months. My people will continue to report on its progress. If necessary, we will create more videos with hats ourselves.”

      “We’ve had to endure much you and I, but soon there will be order again. A new age. RPS spoke of the mystical perfect Engine. That Engine will soon be a reality and we will be crowned its publishers.
      Or better than publishers. Developers!”

      • LionsPhil says:

        *applause*

        (I’m also amused that iD don’t get so much as a mention. How the mighty have fallen.)

        • fiddlesticks says:

          I actually had a small joke planned about id (“A bunch of pretentious old man playing at running the world. But the world left them behind long ago. We are the future.”) but I couldn’t really make it work in context and I felt the post was too long already.

      • Theory says:

        *also applauds*

        *stands*

      • DXN says:

        Bravo. :)

      • PopeJamal says:

        Just wow.

      • Skabooga says:

        My hat’s off to you, good sir. *Also applauds, with hat awkwardly in hand*

  15. Eclipse says:

    ” there’s a good chance that the big story about Source 2 might include a shift to OpenGL rather than DirectX”

    Source engine already works both with OpenGL AND DirectX, there’s no need for a shift, most high level game engines use both API and have multi-rendering systems, even my own little engine works like that :)
    A DirectX renderer is best on Windows and is needed on xbox, while OpenGL is needed on mac and linux. PS3 instead uses a library on it’s own, so Source engine has at least three different “renderers” already, I dubt “Source 2″ means a shift to OpenGL because there’s no need for that at all actually!

    • PopeJamal says:

      Jesus christ, having trouble with the posting system? Or are you just really excited about this little factoid?

    • Kaira- says:

      Actually PS3 uses OpenGL|ES, or rather PSGL which is Sony’s implementation of OpenGL|ES with proprietary extensions to support shaders using nVidia’s Cg shader language.

  16. lambomann007 says:

    Why on earth would I want Linux to be the next gen of PC gaming? No offense Linux.
    I’d have to dual boot my PC, and I don’t want to have to be restarting and switching OSes whenever I want to play my ‘next-gen’ games.* And no, I can’t just ditch windows, because I’ve already invested heavily in games for that platform, and I won’t really be able to play them on Linux for a while yet.

    Anyway, I seriously doubt Windows 8 is going to send people in droves to Linux like everyone likes to say it will. Seriously, it’s almost the same OS as Win7, just with things moved around and some new things added. It’ll only take about 5-mins to a day for people to master. Compare that to moving to an entirely new OS, and having none of your programs working therefore not only having to learn a new OS, but a bunch of new replacement programs too. I just seriously doubt the average consumer, the people buying PC games, will want to make that sort of a drastic change. They’ll just go with the ‘lesser evil’. And if the consumers won’t move, the developers won’t either.

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      The future you worry about is not a future that will happen, so you can rest easy.

    • vandinz says:

      I have Windows 8 on my bedroom PC. There’s a tile on the Metro (or whatever they’re calling it now) screen that says DESKTOP. I pressed it, guess what, it took me to a normal Windows 7 style desktop! One click! Who’d have thunk it was so easy eh?

    • Onaka says:

      Hah. HAHAH. HAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH!
      Yeah. Adjust to Metro in 5 minutes, have you USED it? How on EARTH do you think you’re gonna comfortably run an IM client as well as a browser and switch between them? What if you have a second screen and are watching a video on the secondary screen and want to do the same thing? Not to mention any kind of IDE, or if you need to work with an application as well as manage files, like, for instance, editing your photos or editing video?
      In closing: BWAAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH, wow… Good one…

      • lambomann007 says:

        Go to your keyboard, doesn’t matter which version of Windows you’re using. Hold down alt, then press tab. That…just blew your mind, amirite? :P
        I’ve been using Windows 8 Release Preview as my main OS for the last few months. It’s quite nice having Visual Studio on my desktop, and having my Twitter feed in Tweetro pinned off to the left side.

        • Onaka says:

          Yeah? When you have 3 windows open, okay. 10, 20, is it still fast, is it still even acceptable? Believe it or not, some people actually use their computers for… Wait for it… MORE THAN ONE THING! And here’s the REAL radical bit: Sometimes they do those things AT THE SAME TIME! Mindblow right there, right?

          • Shadram says:

            Windows 8 desktop is Windows 7 with performance improvements and a smaller memory footprint. Anything Win 7 can do, Windows 8 can do (at least) as well.

            I’m not saying it’s the second coming of Jesus, I personally don’t like the Metro part of it at all, but if you consider just the desktop stuff, Win 8 is just a refinement of Win 7. Also major improvements in Explorer (especially parallel file copying) and Task Manager make me very happy.

          • lambomann007 says:

            Interesting.
            You don’t appear to use alt-tab to switch programs, because you imply it’s slow and inefficient.
            You don’t appear to use the taskbar to switch programs either, else you wouldn’t have made a big deal out of this in the first place, because, you know, Windows 8 has a taskbar too.
            You must be a wizard.

          • Onaka says:

            You really aren’t thinking about this at all. I’d expect you to extrapolate just a little bit, I didn’t expect I’d need to write about this when I commented first. It has a taskbar, sure, if you happen to put it into desktop mode, which you won’t be able to sustain because of Metro being the primary (non-disablable, not really) mode and we can expect new and large established apps that use the desktop model to stop being developed fairly soon, but still retaining a large quantity of non-metro “legacy” apps floating around, switching between Metro and non-metro apps is terrible and slow, there really is no fast way to do it unless you start modding Windows, and you can’t tell me that’s made easy in Windows. Then add a second screen. How do you see that working out? I’m not even touching on how Windows in itself is a piece of shit with no virtual desktop support or per-screen taskbars or any flexibility in configuring it, wrapping on this fisher-price baby’s first GUI layer is just making it even less useful for anyone who wants to get shit DONE on their computers.

          • Shadram says:

            Oh noes! Windows 8 is stifling my creativity with its inability to multitask!

            http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7493/tmultitask.png

            EDIT – Oh, and as an enterprise app developer, working at a company with ties to Microsoft, I can assure you that the desktop is going nowhere. Converting to a metro app is not a simple process, apps need to be developed specifically for it, partly due to the new runtime (it’s WinRT, not .Net) and partly for the new UI paradigms. None of the business app devs are going near it.

          • Onaka says:

            That picture is perfect shadram. Now put in two metro apps on there. Find any two metro apps and put them on that screen right there.

          • Shadram says:

            Why would I need to? Metro apps aren’t going to replace my desktop. Microsoft aren’t shy about admitting that the Metro interface is designed for the tablet and portable space. Anything a metro app can do, a desktop app can do too. ‘Cut the Rope’ still runs in a browser just as well as it runs in Metro.

            The only place where you can’t use the desktop is on an ARM tablet, and on Windows Phone if/when they switch that OS to Win8, but in those cases, you probably won’t want to anyway.

          • Onaka says:

            Because sooner or later I’m going to find an app that I want to use, but won’t be available non-metro.

          • lambomann007 says:

            Man, I tried extrapolating, but it made you look like a person of lesser intelligence, so I didn’t out of respect for you. :P
            “Metro being the primary (non-disablable, not really) mode and we can expect new and large established apps that use the desktop model to stop being developed fairly soon” I doubt that. There are some kinds of programs that won’t work well in Metro, and they’ll still have desktop versions for quite some time. So basically we’re talking about the most of the programs that people who have 10-20 windows open at a time use. Plus, when I do have that many open, I really don’t have all of them side by side so I can see them all at the same time, I just switch between the ones I need at the time. Which brings me to my next point:
            “switching between Metro and non-metro apps is terrible and slow” Sit with me by the campfire, I have a story to tell you. Now, this is something that happened to me not all of 15 minutes ago. I was sitting there in the fullscreen Mail metro app, and I thought to myself “I need to get to the DayZ Six Launcher desktop app.” So I held down alt and pressed tab. The end.
            “per-screen taskbars” I’m pretty sure Win8 has this.

          • Shadram says:

            Then that Metro app will have been designed to run full-screen, or in the side panel. And alt-tab really is your friend.

            Put it this way – when full screen games are being designed to launch in a Metro shell, never again will anyone complain about bad task switching or a lack of windowed mode. MS forces the Metro apps to switch instantly, gives them 10 seconds to tidy themselves up, then puts them to sleep. It’s fast.

            EDIT – ‘“per-screen taskbars” I’m pretty sure Win8 has this.’ It does.

    • varangian says:

      >Why on earth would I want Linux to be the next gen of PC gaming?

      You obviously don’t, but perhaps Valve do for various reasons. I’m speculating obviously but a number of reasons spring to mind:

      - There’s going to be lots of stuff running Linux or Linux derived OS’s out there. Android tablets, Ubuntu TVs, cloud based gaming, all kinds of things. Some of these will be suitable for games of various kinds and Valve presumably wants in as both a supplier of said games and to make Steam the platform of choice for selling them. The days when Windows was the only game in town for PCs and PC derived devices are long gone.

      - Stability and control. I use Linux for day to day stuff and Windows 7 only for gaming. My antique Ubuntu Karmic Koala install has performed quite happily day in, day out since 2009. Doesn’t even get updated any more but it doesn’t really need it. In roughly the same timeframe Windows 7 has needed to be nuked once and re-installed as it got so flaky and the parade of ‘fixes’ is never ending. If Valve have success with this I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t produce a ‘Valve Linux’ someday. One of the big problems developers have with the PC is the variability of the platform, out of date drivers etc. screwing up their release, see the John Carmack talk. But a stripped down Linux optimised for gaming that got updated in a controlled fashion in the same way that Steam does with games would make a PC more like a console in terms of how you develop for it by providing a predictable platform. And developers might like something free of any MS/Sony licensing.

      - Speed. Valve have apparently already got L4D2 running faster on Linux than on Windows, and they got it running faster on Windows (though still not as fast as Linux) by using the OpenGL code instead of Direct3D.

      The sad fact is that MS have little incentive to make the PC a great games platform. They sell Windows mainly to business, along with Office that’s their cash cow. Games are a side issue and they’d much rather we all went and bought Xboxes. I’m guessing Valve are interested in finding routes around the MS roadblock because they believe there’s lots of money still to be made from PCs and related products and personally I hope they succeed.

      • iniudan says:

        Any good Linux distro already get updated in a controlled fashion through the package manager, the thing is that most distro still don’t have a good enough graphical package manager for the normal user.

        • varangian says:

          Well Windows gets updated all to regularly as well for that matter, but you’re missing my point. If, and this is wild speculation, Valve did get round to producing their own Linux based OS it would presumably be something along the lines of Android, open in theory but in practice tightly locked down. So the kernel, graphics driver etc. would get updated only when Valve said so. It would basically make the PC like a console. So Valve developers, and anyone who cared to join them, could write PC code knowing that what runs in testing will run in the wild as everything down the stack to the hardware is a known quantity. Unlike at present where PC games need to be written to allow for different versions of DirectX, different versions of Windows, different graphics drivers. This is why developers, even ones with a PC bias, find it so much easier to develop for consoles.

          Given that modern CPUs can easily support virtual machines it’s not too fanciful to imagine that you could launch a game in Windows (or desktop Linux for that matter) that would use a hypervisor to put the host OS to sleep then boot a custom OS on the lines I’ve mentioned to run the game. If I was Valve that’s the kind of thing I’d be working towards rather than trying to sell dual booting or similar to users who mostly won’t have a clue about such things.

    • PopeJamal says:

      “And if the consumers won’t move, the developers won’t either.”

      It’s a well know that games are often the thing that gets people to spend tons of money/effort on new things. Valve is trying to lead that charge. But you are missing an entire point with Windows 8: Windows is trying to setup a closed “ecosystem

      Microsoft has seen all the sweet, sweet revenue that Apple has garnered through their app store and has said “Hey! No fair! I want one too!”. And you can’t really blame them, because Xbox Live Arcade has done very well too.

      If things go their way, they will turn the desktop into a giant DRM riddle theme park. From the hardware to the software. In MicrosoftLand, you don’t get complete control of your hardware (because only pirates and pedos even WANT that anyway) and you can only run “safe” software that you’ve purchased through the Windows app store, or whatever the hell they plan to call it.

      So people with a healthy and mature market (Valve and Blizzard) see Microsoft putting it’s bib on and drooling all over the cutlery and know that they need to do something for the long term if they want to still have a lunch left to eat in 5 – 10 years. and THAT is how Linux fits into the picture. The OS of last resort.

      Having said all that, I’ve been waiting to jump off of the Windows bandwagon for YEARS, so to paraphrase one of my favorite games of all time, Blood: I hope “You will die a slow, slow, death!” Microsoft. Just like you did to BeOS.

      *spit*

      • Shadram says:

        Except that’s not what’s happening. Retail channels for desktop apps are not going to change, although you’ll also be able to buy them on the Windows store if you want to. Metro apps don’t have to be bought through the Windows app store, they can be downloaded and installed from the web, or provided on disc with other software. Devs don’t even have to pay to develop Metro apps, only to have their apps accredited and hosted in the Windows app store, and doing so assures people buying those apps that they’ve been tested by Microsoft.

        There’s a huge amount of complaining going on here all based on lack of understanding or misinformation. Windows 8 is not going to kill Windows.

        • iniudan says:

          Actually only the enterprise edition permit to install metro software without going through Microsoft, all other version of windows 8 metro software have to go through them even if you install from a disk (so like game that use the steamwork drm), the trouble is that it is the OS doing that, so basically if you want your software to be use in metro by individual, and/or small and medium business you basically have to go through microsoft and share revenue with them.

  17. varangian says:

    Of course this probably means Black Mesa Source will now spend another decade or two in limbo as they port whatever it is they’ve currently got to a new platform.

    • Grape Flavor says:

      oh god let us hope not. apparently they’re nearing completion and we should get some big news soon.

      Then again they said that years ago and I believed them that time, too. This is truly the DNF of mods. Except, you know, hopefully it will actually be good, when we finally get it.

  18. vandinz says:

    Linux isn’t everything it’s made out to be. A lot of it is used as a tool to “fight the system” or Microsoft in other words. I’ve recently installed Ubuntu for the first time on a computer in the house and found it to be laborious to get going. I know what I’m doing, I managed to figure it all out and found it to be a step backwards from Windows.

    It’s like the bad old days of DOS command line installations and configuration. Having got it running perfectly the user experience was the same as Windows but without the advantages of compatibility of software and some hardware.

    The fact is it’s just too complicated for over 90% of PC users but if you remove that then what difference is it to Windows? Making more like Windows makes it less attractive to those wanting to “stick it to the man”.

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      Because your first experience with something makes you an expert?

      Linux is most annoying for armchair experts who think they know everything and find out they don’t. They rage and complain.

      If you give Linux to someone who assumes they don’t understand computers, they often find it preferable.

      Of course, pc gamers are going to mostly be people who are invested in systems as they are, so generally it’s not worth it to them to ‘switch’. Where’s the upside? Well there are some long term benefits like more personal control of your information world, and the system being built more with your rights in mind. But in the here and now it’s mostly in the power to do things that are hard or inconvenient on windows. And that’s mostly either in server management, programming, or normal stuff but doing that normal stuff a very different way than what you’re used to. Again, is the tradeoff worth it? That’s a personal decision.

    • Onaka says:

      I suppose then that this Windows install just slows to a crawl after being on for five or so days, whereas the Linux desktop over in the other room has been running continuously for almost a year without any kind of slowdown, through several complete overhauls of the graphical user interface counts for nothing then? The fact that I can access it from anywhere in the world with free tools from my phone or browser, or hell, text console, is pretty worthless. The fact that I can, with two commands, set it up to automatically sync a folder, a drive or a single file to a remote location as it is modified is worthless. The fact that the user interface doesn’t just freeze because it feels like it. The fact that I can have a dozen different scripting languages installed without ANY hassle is also worthless.
      I guess not putting things in the same location on the screen as Windows trumps all the stability, modularity, expandability, modifiability and performance then?
      Only drawback I see is lack of hardware support and native games. Those are the two things that are worse on Linux than on Windows. But remember that Linux runs a majority of Windows games through Wine.

      • iniudan says:

        And if you can’t still run it with wine, can always go for a VM also, if you really don’t want to do a multiboot install.

  19. doktorfisch says:

    I am seeing a Linux-based Valve-Gaming-Box.

    “The best thing about standards is, there are so many of them to choose from..”

    • zeroskill says:

      Can you explain the logic behind this statement? What interest would Valve have in developing a console-like “box” or whatever when they sit on top of PC gaming?

    • rustybroomhandle says:

      Ooh ooh ooh, I know this one… pick me, pick me!

      It goes like this. Valve is not stupid. And someone not stupid is unlikely to bet the farm on a platform with as small a market share as Linux. Stay with me here. Why then would Valve be pushing Linux unless they have a plan up their sleeve? Because they have a plan up their sleeve is why. And that plan I am guessing is exactly this – a new console that’s a direct competitor to the big three. Linux is the only OS that makes sense here. It’s free (as in freedom) and open, so they get to modify it to use as the base OS on this Magic Pixie Dream Box. Microsoft and Apple will definitely not allow it to use their respective operating systems. Us who want to run Steam on our Linux desktops can do so, and Valve/Steam fans who can’t give two shits about Linux can either go on using Windows, or get the Valve Magic Pixie Dream Box, and not care beyond that about what OS it runs.

      • Brun says:

        I’m not sure there’s space in the market for a fourth console. While I agree that Valve is probably not betting the farm on Linux, it’s unlikely that they’re instead betting it on something almost as crazy.

        • rustybroomhandle says:

          Forgot to also present the new big screen Steam interface as supporting evidence, And maybe you are right and it is just something almost as crazy. But having a platform that can run on a desktop, a set top, built into a display, whatever… that does sound like a good plan.

          And then there’s this: Valve filed for a “controller with swappable components” patent. (that include mouse & keyboard)
          http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110105231#b

      • zeroskill says:

        That’s just as speculative as saying Valve is pushing Linux because they are working on their own Linux based OS, which would be at least a little bit more reasonable to ASSUME then assuming they want to push into the console market. Which, to be honest, I don’t believe Valve’s philosophy is if you read between the lines whenever Gabe talks to the public (as in, pushing into markets they have no business in being).

  20. MikoSquiz says:

    Does this mean no more Hammer? Can we maybe get a Screwdriver or even a Crescent Wrench?

  21. markcocjin says:

    Hey RPS. Valve is still teasing us with Half-Life:

    http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/File:Recipe_Scroll.png

  22. maweki says:

    My system at work, the home desktop, the laptop and 90% of my university’s machines are running Linux. As a C.S. student I am more comfortable with unix anyway, but this is besides the point.
    It just seems, that I am the only one who just Dual-Boots into Windows to play games. I do not have a single productivity application on Windows (ok, maybe I installed a Libre Office, but that’s it, promise). I need to boot into windows to play. I welcome Steam on the platform I actually use from day to day.

  23. MeestaNob says:

    I’m totally sick of waiting for Half Life 3 at this point. I just don’t care any more.

  24. CJ says:

    Isn’t there meant to be a “Minecraft inspired” L4D2 map being released by Valve soon (in much the same way that ‘Cold Stream’ was released.)?

    That could lead to funnies about a new Source engine.

  25. Retroflex says:

    Does anyone besides Valve (and the people who made Revelations 2012 too I guess) care about Source anymore? UE4, CryEngine 3, and Frostbite 2 do pretty much everything better than Source and its antiquated devtools.

    • zeroskill says:

      if the only thing you care about is visuals, I guess no. But all those engines you mentioned are, to be honest, unresponsive and cluncky compared to the “visually outdated” source engine. I played Battlefield, the controls are just unprecisce and feel floaty, horrible. The Cryengine is better in that respect, and I would say the best of the lot, but still, in responsiveness don’t stand up to Source.

      And if you care to look at how good Dota 2 looks, compared to products that are comparable, like Starcraft 2 or Dawn of War 2 Retribution, especially in animation quality, it blows them out of the water.

  26. MythArcana says:

    Yeah, the NextGen Quake 2 engine. Pffffffft.

  27. Belua says:

    Does this mean we finally get the long awaited Fart Cops?

  28. RandomEngy says:

    Why is everyone so sure this means they’re re-writing their engine? The wording makes it sound like some developer was just trying to be compatible with some hypothetical future version when grabbing the engine version string. Valve has always said that they designed Source to be a flexible engine that they can just continuously update.

  29. The Dark One says:

    God damn you, Jimmy Gubbins Jr,!

  30. defunkt says:

    Overdue doesn’t even begin to describe it. Personally I thought Valve, bloated on skimming other studio’s sales, had rather decided video game development was for the birds.

    • Dominic White says:

      You are aware that Valve have released a full game every year for the past five years or so, right? Plus continually supported their back-catalogue?

      Compare to Blizzard.

      • zeroskill says:

        @defunkt: Not mentioning Blizzard is approximately ten times as big as Valve when it comes to employees and Valve also manages to run the most successful digital distibution service on the side.

        Also they have two major games ready to be released right now. How many does Blizzard have? But hey why don’t we completely disregard fact’s now for the sake of whining.

  31. Nallen says:

    So that’s what the wait for new Half Life is all about.