The Sunday Papers

By Jim Rossignol on September 9th, 2012 at 10:07 am.


Sundays are for basking in early morning sun with a cup of tea. Sundays are for basking in the afternoon sun with a cup of tea. Sundays are for basking in the evening sun with a cup of tea. And also, for reading.

  • This is a fascinating comment on Thirty Flights Of Loving (a game which some have dismissed because of its cinematic approach): “Usually, videogames inhabit spaces. They set them up to be populated, they create functioning, navigable environments that in some way or another have an unbroken connection to a previous space, even if it is only by virtue of the player’s memory. There is usually no cut. Like a long take from A Touch of Evil or Children of Men, the player wanders throughout a space at leisure, bearing witness to spatial connections unable to be hidden or emphasised through montage. But not always. Thirty Flights of Loving is a very unusual videogame. Thirty Flights of Loving is a videogame that cuts space up.”
  • Kotaku report on the Stardock/Elemental sexual harassment case: “This August, two years after Elemental’s disastrous debut, Stardock filed a lawsuit against former employee Alexandra Miseta, claiming that actions she took immediately before her departure were a major contributing factor to Elemental’s failure. However, Stardock vs. Miseta is not the first time Miseta and Stardock CEO Brad Wardell have faced off in court—and the timing of the new lawsuit suggests it could have more to do with the other court case than it does with Elemental.”
  • RPG Codex talks to former Interplay and Troika man, Tim Cain: “I did enjoy both Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I know that surprised some of my fans, who wanted me to hate the games and rail against their design choices (which I have repeatedly pointed out were different than the ones I would have made), but there is no arguing that more people enjoy the modern versions of the franchise than the older ones.”
  • Kotaku also have a look at Glassdoor.com employee-bashing of major games companies, which is a site I think everyone takes with a pinch of salt: “Perhaps foremost being that all the user-contributed reviews on the site it is anonymously contributed. Glassdoor admits in their FAQ that they are “unable to fully verify the identity of an anonymous user,” but they “require each user to certify their employee relationship to the company when they post any content” and require someone to be registered with the site with a verified email address. Finally, they state “active community moderation and our commitment to review every post” severely mitigate the risk of inaccurate information going onto the site.” All that said, there’s some provocative and thought-provoking stuff in there, not all of it negative.
  • PCGamesN take a look at the strange tale of the self-destructing indie game: “By some blessing, GlitchHiker’s creators didn’t have to see it go. The team of five game developers and one musician were sat in a nearby bar when the text came in – like the hushed doctor, arms folded mutely in front of him – to say that the game didn’t have long left, that they should make their goodbyes before the end. This pioneering group of indie developers had built a game that was programmed to self destruct. Now, the curtain was falling.”
  • A question we will hear more in the future: When A Kickstarter Fails, Does Anyone Get Their Money Back?
  • Meanwhile, a lot of people have been taking about that other money question, Steam Greenlight’s $100. Here’s Jonas Kyratzes on the subject, and here’s Rob Fearon: “And here’s the punchline. I had a computer. I had development software. I had art packages. I had sound packages. I had a whole myriad of stuff sitting on my computer. I had UDK and some wonderful guidance from Rob too. I didn’t have $100 I could throw down on a gamble as a business expense. Luckily, I didn’t need $100 as a business expense either but I’ve found out the past few days that this would make me entirely not a serious developer according to some people.”
  • On “Seduce Me” being removed from Steam Greenlight: “I understand it more on iOS, because Apple has this air of, ‘we’re here to protect you, everything just works and it’s a nice, safe place to be’… That’s Apple’s whole ethos: I don’t like it, but I understand it. I don’t understand Valve’s, because it’s supposed to be part of the PC, Linux ethos. I’d always seen them as being on the side of the underdog, on the side of free speech.”
  • Criticism of the use of malaria in Far Cry 2: “Reduction of a disease to simple 1’s and 0’s is going to be difficult, especially if it is as well-studied as malaria is. Yet, it feels to me that the disease is utilised half-heartedly as something that only annoys the player, rather than truly limiting them. Symptoms of malaria are cyclical and are aligned to the destruction of the body’s red blood cells. As the parasite reproduce and destroy massive amounts of the critical oxygen-carrying cells, coldness and rigor sets in, as does a characteristic fever. For a game that heavily relies on the reality of bullet wounds, expansive landscapes and gun rust, it is a strange decision to distort the cyclic nature of malaria.”
  • The Mittani interviews John Smedley, and that throws up an interesting point about Planetside’s future: “SOE is redefining itself as a creator of emergent gameplay experiences. That’s our future. You can call it sandbox but it’s so much more than that. A good example is Player owned bases in Planetside 2. That’s coming. We’re going to make huge continents that are empty and have vast resources on them and players can fight it out and put down their own bases there and other players can come and obliterate them. Sound familiar Eve Players? Actually we had something like this in Star Wars Galaxies too. THAT is content.”
  • An article about whether horror games are scarier if you don’t know how to play them.
  • This article about Google’s mapping technology is fascinating.
  • Duncan Harris’s Skyrim screenshots really are something.

Music this week is from Jean Grae, who was kind enough to reference RPS in her latest gaming-inspired track.

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271 Comments »

  1. bluebomberman says:

    The Brad Wardell sexual harassment case has me considering boycotting Stardock. I know technically no verdicts have been rendered but I find it impossible to presume innocence.

    • Sheng-ji says:

      Is that because you believe he deliberately set out to harass this woman or is it because you believe him to be a sexist person in general?

      Shouldn’t need to be said but this is a genuine question.

      • MadMatty says:

        Well, both quite obviously, coz thats what he is. No other way around it.
        Stardock doesn´t need boycotting tho- the boss just needs to get punted.

        Stardock will probably have to wait for the trial to complete, to do this.
        But the Emails are easily verifiable, and i think thats one of the most grotesque replies i have ever read from a boss, when he´s been specifically asked to “lay off her”. Who would want to work in a work climate like that?

        • Jimbo says:

          Who is he going to get ‘punted’ by?

          • MadMatty says:

            He´s the top Boss at Stardock?
            I guess thats why hes been getting away with it.
            Excuse me while i vomit a bit.

          • frightlever says:

            What the employee apparently forgot was that she existed only to serve the shareholders of the company she worked for, and Brad was not only the top boss he was also the only shareholder and had such a long stick up his ass that he was able to look down on God himself. Look at me referring to him in the past tense as if he didn’t exist any more. Ahhh.

          • bluebomberman says:

            Just because he owns the company doesn’t mean he can ignore federal and state law. He may be king and CEO of Stardock but he is neither judge nor jury in the court.

          • vvimina51 says:

            Did anyone crack the DRM for Life? I wouldn’t mind pirating a second copy and doing it right.

            http://rgb-game.com/2012/09/09/cardboard-children-life/

        • MadMatty says:

          Also, suing for bad PR?? Elemental was perfectly well advertised on all major gaming sites, for a title it´s size, and people in general were quite excited about it, until, after release, they found it an uncomplete mess of a game, with lots of game breaking bugs. Go Figure…..

          • AshEnke says:

            Maybe that’s why it was said that they had to recreate the marketing data during the time that was supposed to be used to debug the game.

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            Because game devs make the best marketing campaigns.

          • Baines says:

            If they had to spend time recreating the marketing material instead of debugging the game, then why didn’t Wardell ever mention that before? He certainly tried to defend the state that the game was released in. If he had an actual excuse (that significant necessary data was lost), then why didn’t he use that excuse? Instead, he just said stuff about how he was too close to the process, felt the game was good, and that he’d burnt himself out on it.

            I’ve never seen or heard any indication that missing marketing files crippled Elemental until now. For a couple of years, it was never mentioned. However, three weeks after a sexual harassment lawsuit wasn’t dismissed, it suddenly has become the primary reason Elemental crashed and burned?

            It just doesn’t add up as anything other than a vindictive act by Wardell. He’s at risk of losing a costly harassment lawsuit, and it looks like he tossed out this charge either to make leverage to push for a settlement or just as flat out retaliation if a settlement isn’t reached.

            And as for Wardell’s response posted at Kotaku, he certainly seemed to be saying that he thought Elemental was great when it was released. At least he kept going on about how good he thought the game was, even as beta testers were speaking out about the various concerns that they’d already had during development.

        • Sheng-ji says:

          It wasn’t obvious to me, certainly he is a sexist person. He makes a statement to her and in public that he is and has no interest in changing, but the idea that to be sexist is a botcottable issue in our industry is new to me, and I’m not sure how I feel about that yet – It could be a great attitude, it could be a kneejerk reaction that fails to deal with the root of the problem.

          The idea that he deliberately set out to harass this woman is more difficult. Certainly if he emailed her a pornographic video and this purity test with instructions for her to complete it and send the results back to him, that would constitute something nasty, but if he sent out a jokey video link on youtube with some explicit jokes, that you may see on Live at the Apollo (An after watershed standup show, on the BBC) to the whole company and this test was on say facebook where the results get published for all to see, certainly he is guilty of unprofessional behaviour, but not harassment. I for one would certainly need to know more, but if he was harassing this woman, that is certainly a reason to economically starve him out of the industry.

          When all is said and done though, he is the business owner. As far as I’m aware, Stardock has no shareholders, basically making him the 100% shareholder. He’s not going anywhere and couldn’t be forced out by anyone.

          • ReV_VAdAUL says:

            This guy is a monster. In those legal documents he is proud to have sexually harassed an employee, I’ve seen a picture of his sports car parked across a disabled parking spot (he apparently really dislikes the disabled) and on the official stardock youtube channel there is a video of him mocking people who said they were allergic to bee stings and BROUGHT IN BEES TO SEE IF IT WAS TRUE!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPc9Z2Dn94U

            I don’t care if he can’t be forced out of his own company, I refuse to give him any money with which he can do some more awful stuff.

          • slerbal says:

            I’ve bought Stardock games for years, but having read the documents this behaviour by Brad Wardell is very disturbing. I will hold off making a judgement until the case is decided, but until then I think I will also hold off buying any more Stardock games.

            Also that bee video – WTF!! That is utterly atrocious behaviour, and in this one verifiable incident Brad Wardell was not only a complete arse but actually putting some of his employees in potentially lethal situations. Bee-sting related anaphylactic shock is no laughing matter.

          • wengart says:

            Brad is apparently a crazy shit, but Stardock usually makes fun games and if they screw up they hold themselves accountable. Personally I think that the company doing right by their customers is more important and they’ll still be getting my money.

          • dontnormally says:

            For ultimate lulz you absolutely HAVE to click the link ReV_VAdAUL posted and read the top comments.

          • GoodKnight says:

            @ReV_VAdAUL
            Why don’t you get your facts straight?
            The “bees” he brought into the office were actually drones..
            The cannot sting.. DUUHHHH or else how could he pick them up without getting stung?

            People stop jumping to conclusions..
            For all we know she sent that email so she can set up a lawsuit expecting him to settle.
            And Brad being slightly over zelius? responding in properly..

            He my not be a perfect human being but it doesn’t mean he is a crazed sex offender..
            Don’t forget all the good he has done for the industry.. He released a broken game. Fessed up to it and is re releasing it FREE to who ever bought the original!

            P.S I know three languages so my spelling is imperfect.. sry..

      • Maktaka says:

        He’s not sexist, not specifically, he’s just a general asshole and treats the book on douchebag behavior as a checklist. Sexism is merely one way in which he treats others like shit. He’s just pissed that THIS form of being an asshole landed him in court.

        You know that line from Dennis Leary’s song “Asshole”:

        “I park my car in handicapped spaces, while handicapped people make handicapped faces.”

        Funny as a song, but Brad Wardell HAS ACTUALLY DONE THAT. And posted the picture of it. And laughed.

      • bluebomberman says:

        The way I’m reading it is that Wardell almost certainly harassed an employee to the point where she felt she had to resign, and is now trying to bully her with a countersuit that appears to lack merit.

        Whether he is a sexist pig to one employee or to many employees is largely speculative; I can only comment on what is presented.

        • Sheng-ji says:

          That’s absolutely fair enough and I don’t want to question your opinion, just interested to know a bit more about it!

    • AngoraFish says:

      Brad Wardell has been well known as being an obnoxious sod for many years. While I expect that his problem is largely related to foot in mouth disease rather than any inherent nastiness, the only real surprise is that it’s taken this long to come back to bite him.

    • Manco says:

      Finally a site where the first reaction is what you’d expect. On some other sites the amount of abuse being hurled towards Miseta is rather disappointing. it’s like they’re trying to confirm the stereotype of gamers being misogynistic, socially maladjusted sociopaths.
      I

      • bluebomberman says:

        Sadly I think the perception of the gamer as misogynistic shrill men has a lot of truth behind it; we’ve seen more than enough cases of slander against women in the gaming community to pretend these men are just a tiny minority.

        • Llewyn says:

          I’m not sure we should be quite so hasty. It’s clear that the gamers who post the type of crap you’re talking about are a tiny minority, if only because the number of gamers who actively comment on gaming sites in any way are a tiny minority of gamers. The majority of gamers don’t even ever read any of this news, let alone comment on it (unfortunately, in cases such as this).

          The real question is whether we should extrapolate the behaviour of commenters to the gaming community as a whole. I’m inclined to think not because I tend to the view that public comment on any issue – radio phone-ins, newspaper letters pages, general news site comments etc – tends to the extreme. You only have to look at RPS comment threads on sexism issues; they’re dominated by people that I’ve never previously noticed commenting or subsequently seen on my block list.

          I do think the maladjusted gamer stereotype is a problem with a genuine root, but I don’t think we should be assuming that every gamer other than us is an IGN commenter.

          • Sheng-ji says:

            The issue really is that these vocal people and the public reaction to them define the state of the industry. OK, so a youtube commenter isn’t exactly going to reach and influence a wide audience, but a studio owner will, has and will doubtlessly influence others to adopt similar viewpoints.

            What other industry with as much money in it would allow someone like Brad to remain an influential character in it, if the things he has been accused of in the case and in this thread are true? Not many, thats for sure. Take motor racing, as I am watching it right now. If a team boss were to be accused of the accusations – sexism, laughing at the disabled and endangering those with life threating allergies – and there was enough truth behind the accusations, he would be hounded out of the industry.

            In fact, motor racing had problems with sexism in particular. When a team boss was accused of harassment, he was forced from the industry (6 years ago?) Now we have a female team boss, a female 3rd driver and I’ll eat my hat if we don’t see women on the grid in the next 2 or 3 years.

            Change can be slow to initiate but when in happens, it happens quickly but it needs the support of those who are vocal in the industry to happen. We need studio heads, publishers, industry celebrities to behave in the manner that we wish our industry to adopt. We need the media to condemn offenders and we need to understand that the tiny minority posting may be the extremists but the relentlessness of such extremism will affect everyone to some extent.

      • Rikard Peterson says:

        Which is one reason I don’t read comments on other gaming sites.

    • Kantorai says:

      I was not aware of this situation but from what I now know, Brad and Stardock are on the boycott-list. Simple as that.

      • Ed123 says:

        I’m certainly not boycotting anyone over a he-said-she-said court case. If the woman’s deposition is true, Wardell was a pig who left half the female staff in tears. If Stardock’s is true (which Kotaku, in typical fashion, linked to but referenced VERY selectively), however, then she’s a flat-out liar and a hypocrite who’s widely despised at the company.

        • Droopy The Dog says:

          Feel free to boycot them over various other things though :
          - Their recent history of unfinished and substandard games.
          - Brad’s numerous changes-of-tune and heartfelt appologies full of unfulfilled promises.
          - His occasional outbursts insulting his own customers with derrogatory remarks that he later has edited off the forums.
          - The picture of him parking his sports car diagonally across some disabled parking spaces.
          - His insistance on having the last say in game design despite being awful at his own company’s games and musing on some truely idiotic game design ideas in his blogs.
          - That gamers bill of rights hypocrisy

          • wengart says:

            Although Elemental was a mess when it was released everyone who bought it gets access to the standalone expansion for free.

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            “Is” a mess not “was”. It took them 6 months to get around to fixing the memory leak and plenty of bugs still remain with the rest. Also, not everyone gets the expansion free, just anyone who bought it at full price at release or shortly thereafter. (Which is probably almost everyone, since once reviews got out I bet sales dropped like a rock.)

            Last I heard of the Fallen Enchantress beta it’s equally broken and has another game-crashing memory leak. Normally I’m of the more cautious “there’s still time to fix it” viewpoint for beta bugs, but the last two stardock betas I was involved in they fixed a tiny fraction of the reported bugs and just released the mess they had, I expect no different with Fallen Enchantress.

            So two shitty games for the twice the price of Warlock:MotA, or four times the price of Age of Wonders 2 on GOG is hardly redemption for any of the stuff listed above.

          • Jenks says:

            “Feel free to boycot them over various other things though :
            - Their recent history of unfinished and substandard games.”

            Hey, that’s why I boycott Obsidian games!

        • Auxill says:

          I like how you use Wardell’s name but refer to Miseta as “the woman.”

          • Eukatheude says:

            Indeed, not remembering someone’s name is clearly sexism.

      • Grape Flavor says:

        I’m certainly glad I decided recently to give my money to Endless Space instead of GalCiv II, albeit for completely unrelated reasons.

        Really, his own e-mail says it all. I believe in innocent-until-proven-guilty and all that, but it’s practically a confession. And the evidence in favor of this guy being a colossal asshole is so overwhelming that I’m not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. That’s just really all there is to it AFAIC.

        • Grape Flavor says:

          I’m not ruling out that she could have possibly deleted those files, either, BTW. I just don’t care. Either way I’m not giving my money to a company wholly owned by such an obnoxious douchebag. I had no idea Wardell was like this, in fact, Stardock being plucky independent studio it is, I had thought of them rather favorably.

          EDIT: Isn’t this the same studio that posted that “Gamer’s Manifesto” that everyone loved a while back? It’s almost hard to believe that all this is coming from the very same guy.

          • AngoraFish says:

            Their ‘gamer’s manifesto’ lasted about as long as it took to read it.

    • mwoody says:

      As an aside: what kind of company doesn’t have backups they can restore? I work in IT, and if one of our customers – at least, one with the foresight to take their data seriously – has an employee delete her mailbox and the contents of a network storage location, I just put it back. Takes me half an hour, and the only caveat is that they have to catch the deletion within three months.

      If they don’t have that capability – and frankly, I’d wager they do, and this is bullshit – then someone needs to be fired. Well, someone in addition to Wardell.

    • sophof says:

      I find it shocking how easily people take sides in these things. It is NOT ok to pick a side, just because the other guy is dickish. Sexual harrasment is a touchy subject that tends to favour women, I suggest everyone stays on the fence until a court figures out the story.
      Maybe it is because I have seen both sides (both false and true accusations), but because of the easy pitchforks not only does every employer have to walk on their toes around every female, any women being harassed will probably think twice about complaining as well. As a bonus it’ll be probably less likely for an employer to hire a woman, all things being equal.

    • foop says:

      Never mind the sexual harassment, I’m considering boycotting them because they’re idiots. Have they never heard of backups?

      If an angry employee trashed a load of our data and I couldn’t get it back ASAP I’d be toast. It never ceases to amaze me that people working in a pure-IT environment can be so clueless when it comes to this sort of thing.

      Sure, there’s lots of ways this could happen – maybe she had it all on her laptop and it wasn’t on any of their servers. Nonetheless, letting things get this way is asking for trouble. It doesn’t have to be an angry employee; the laptop could be stolen, dropped in the bath, set on fire, or shredded by a pack of angry weasels.

      (I’m confidently expecting all my backups to fail now I’ve got on my high horse.)

  2. Delusibeta says:

    On the subject of Seduce Me, it was pretty damn blatant that its point was the porn, judging by the fact that a bunch of their screenshots had to be pixelated. Honestly, I’d have to side with Valve with that one: on the one hand the media would have an absolute field day with it had Steam sold it (see Fox News’ treatment of Mass Effect, except that this time you can’t point out they’re barking up the wrong tree) and on the other hand no other notable digital distributor deals with any other game with explicit sex scenes and I doubt anyone will make an exception for Seduce Me.

    • Nim says:

      Why not simply introduce an adult category that’s only viewable for people aged 18 or 21 and older. A setting in steam options would control if this category would get displayed?

      • Archonsod says:

        Because Valve’s motivation is to make money, not some bizarre crusade to push boundaries in the industry or the like.

        • Nim says:

          But would not a new completely untapped category bring in more revenue for them, i.e make them money? Also, including an adult category cannot surely pass as a push of boundaries in this day and age. I am being pragmatic, I don’t see why adult themes or even porn should be forbidden when murder simulators gets a free pass. Also what’s this bizarre crusade you speak about? You’re not making any sense.

          • EPICTHEFAIL says:

            Someone would complain. Any Steam user knows that their age verification is worse than some actual porn sites. It would barely be a week before Valve got hot with a class-action from every soccer mom on the American continent. The risk is far too great for the relatively marginal reward.

      • Ernesto says:

        Steam needs an age verification system. Problem solved.
        I’m also constantly annoyed, that I can not play any ‘uncut’ version because I live in germany. Just let me proof to Valve, that I am older than 18. That can’t be so hard?!

        • ascagnel says:

          Blame your government for that censorship. If Valve wants to operate a store in any given country, they must conform to that country’s standards.

          • FFabian says:

            When SteaM removes violent content for the german market its censorship. When steam does the same for the US with erotic content it`s …what? Freedomsauce or what?

          • wengart says:

            In Germany the censorship is legally enforced while in the U.S. market it was and is Valve’s voluntary decision to censor the game.

          • FFabian says:

            Ever heard of the FCC? The FCC regulates “indecent” free to air broadcasting in the US. So there IS apparently government censorship in the US!

            Most low-violence versions on steam are not enforced by a government agency but more some sort of preemptive obedience on part of the game publishers to avoid bad press in german media outlets.

      • ascagnel says:

        Two reasons: the services that allow porn tend to get a reputation (see: DailyMotion and Chatroulette), and the second is that the reputation tends to self-perpetuate. So once they start allowing it, it could get worse.

        I’m not opposed to the banning of this game, since it’s fairly obvious that it’s porn with no redeeming aspects beyond the screwing. Games like this have been around for a while and have lived off in their own ghetto behind the gaming industry’s version of the beaded curtain, and it would behoove Steam to keep that out of a mainstream store a la Blockbuster Video in the 90s. If a game were submitted that had heavy, explicit sexual content as a centerpiece of a more involved story or mechanics (basically, a game version of a movie like Shortbus), then this debate would be worth having.

    • mondomau says:

      Yeah, its pretty much a non-issue as far as I’m concerned – they were trying to submit a smutty porn game and Valve blocked it because, in their opinion, it breached one of the 2 conditions of submission.
      Whether or not it does is irrelevant, it’s their business model and their prerogative.
      I believe the only reason this is getting any attention is because there is a feeling of resentment toward Greenlight after the 100 dollar fee debacle. Which is interesting to me because they both stem from an odd notion of the Greenlight as a public service that owes devs free access, unfettered by any restrictions on content. It isn’t, it’s a business model and Valve are a business. If people don’t like it, don’t participate – if there is a demand of a completely open and unrestricted indie distribution service, one will pop up and valve will lose out. Meantime, the recent backlash is in serious danger of sounding like petulant entitled sulking.

      • MadMatty says:

        See what you did there?

        People like you would cut a magazines size in half, while still getting the correct information accross. It´d bankrupt, probably half of them.

        • FreudianTrip says:

          At this point I think Magazine owners would quite enjoy their print costs being cut in half.

        • mondomau says:

          People like me? What about me? I’m not supporting valve’s decision , I’m just pointing out that it’s a business, not a charity. Also, your argument is logically flawed: website content is not the same as retailed games.

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            I think he’s just saying you were especially concise. Then went off on a strange tangent about bankrupting magazines.

            I might have just comprehension failed there though, so make your own mind up.

      • frightlever says:

        Exactly. Nobody is having anything taken away from their indie game development because Steam charges $100 to promote a game. If, by the time you’re ready for Greenlight promotion, you can’t raise a hundred bucks from fans, friends or family, your game is going nowhere anyway.

        The linked article also says that Steam can make the difference between a developer surviving financially or ceasing to exist – if that’s so then instead of making a case for free speech and allowing smut in games (which I have zero problem with, being a huge lover of porn and a lover of huge porn as well. BBW FTW) then shouldn’t they be doing more to actually work within Steam’s guidelines to make sure their game will satisfy Steam’s fairly rigorous selection process?

        You can’t say Steam is vital and we will not bend the knee to please them in any way whatsoever in the same breath.

      • Consumatopia says:

        “Whether or not it does is irrelevant, it’s their business model and their prerogative. … If people don’t like it, don’t participate – if there is a demand of a completely open and unrestricted indie distribution service, one will pop up and valve will lose out. “

        I don’t have a fully-formed opinion on Greenlight, but this position doesn’t add up. If there ever is a demand for a more open game distribution service, public complaints, arguments, and rants exactly like what you’re objecting to here will be part of how that demand would come to exist. People can’t demand something better than Steam if they don’t know that there is anything wrong with Steam. We aren’t talking about what is legally owed to developers–as you say, Valve owes nothing–but what norms of conduct we as customers and developers should find acceptable. Given the strong network effects in something like this, it isn’t something that each customer and developer can decide in a vacuum–customers and developers are dependent on each other to be in the same market so a transaction can take place.

    • MaXimillion says:

      Valve could simply not have displayed the game at all in the US. They already censor their games for local markets.

      • FFabian says:

        ^This!

        They have low-violence versions of their games for local markets. They could introduce a low-sex category for the US audience

        This is a typical prude USian overreaction and “USA USA Team America!” attitude. The US is clearly the best, strongest, finest, purest etc. nation on earth (/s) so when they think it’s the best for them it must be clearly the best for the rest of those inferior foreigners too.

        • Delusibeta says:

          Note how I didn’t specify what country’s media (outside of giving the example of Fox News’ “reporting” on Mass Effect). I’d be willing to bet a significant number of western media outlets will whinge about Seduce Me being sold on Steam.

    • AngoraFish says:

      Dysfunctional American attitudes to sex and violence never cease to amaze. While consenting sexual activity generates hysterical over reactions watching people’s heads explode in slow motion barely rates a mention. The fact that this isn’t the other way around is all you need to know about why the world is so fucked up.

      • Ninja Dodo says:

        [edit: this was a reply to the general thread not specifically to AngoraFish]

        Really? We want Steam to host porn games now? I wonder how many people crying censorship have actually watched the trailer all the way through. I’m mostly surprised the press is encouraging this.

        Functional story-relevant nudity (eg Witcher 2) is not the same thing as a flimsy excuse to look at porn…

      • Sheng-ji says:

        Its basically because the vast majority of gamers who play head explodey games aren’t using it as a warmup to explode heads in real life, whereas the vast majority of porn game players are using it as a warmup to make heads explode in real life.

        • AngoraFish says:

          I LOL’d

        • Nim says:

          That’s a powerful statement. Will you please share the research behind it so that I can educate myself more about this topic.

          • Sheng-ji says:

            I’m sorry, which statement do you need more clarification on?

            1) Most gamers who play games with killing in don’t murder people in real life.

            2) Most users of porn masturbate

            or is it

            3) I’ve completely missed your joke and need it explaining!!!

          • EPICTHEFAIL says:

            Simple. Unlike what the Daily Mail may have taught you, most gamers aren`t murderous sociopaths. People who play porn games, however, do have a pretty good likelihood of being sexually-frustrated virgins, because there aren`t a lot of excuses for playing those kinds of games otherwise. Not really sure about the “making heads explode” part, unless it`s a sexual metaphor that went somewhere horrible.

          • Sheng-ji says:

            I’m now a little ashamed to say that it was a sexual metaphor that went somewhere horrible. I used the word explode as slang for the act of ejaculation and I used the word head to refer to the glans.

          • EPICTHEFAIL says:

            Good. I was getting mental images of porn in a vacuum. Ugh.

          • caddyB says:

            I laughed at it.

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            Please, “head” and “explode” are staples of double entendres everywhere, knowing they need to be explained in detail makes me sad at all the missed inuendo in the world.

        • The Random One says:

          So your point is that Steam shouldn’t allow porn games because players will afterwards masturbate and/or have sex?

          That is a problem because…?

          • Sheng-ji says:

            I don’t care what steam do or don’t do and I don’t care what those who enjoy masturbation do or don’t do in their private time. I was just pointing out, as you seem to have missed the point, that violence in video games and pornography in video games are not in any way alike. They are not used for similar things and people respond to them in very different ways both physically and emotionally, so to argue that violence is allowed therefore graphic sex should be allowed too is a null argument with zero merit.

            Also I had thought up a good joke.

            EDIT: Actually I do care what steam do. As a steam user I don’t want adverts for porn games shoved in my face. I find it grim, depraved, ugly and I don’t want it. Even if there was an option to hide it, other people would know I shop in a place that sells such things, I don’t want them associating that with me. It would put me off, big time. Still, it’s Valves decision what they stock, not mine. I wouldn’t say they shouldn’t, thanks for putting that word in my mouth (haha) but I would say that I don’t want them too.

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            “People who enjoy masturbation”
            That’s a lot of people. Seriously, you can’t even call it masturbation if you don’t enjoy it. You know it doesn’t give you hairy palms either?

            Also, you’re talking grade A puritanism if someone’s going to judge you for shopping at Steam if they ever allow even a single sexually focussed game on there. Did you know you can buy porn for a kindle? Yet it doesn’t come with any stigma of being a den of filthy degenerates.

            Also, “grim, depraved” I don’t get. I can see the “and ugly”, the game looks pretty trashy so far, but how is it grim and depraved for depicting some pretty contrived scenarios of consensual sex?

          • Consumatopia says:

            It was a good joke (or at least I’m sufficiently immature that I liked it), but it’s going a bit too far to say that sex and violence in video games “are not in any way alike”. Both sex and violence simulations are about the fantasy of imaginary accomplishment–either being able to kill powerful warriors, or being capable of having sex with attractive people. Few people are likely to have orgasms to military FPS’s, but certainly something pleasurable in the brain is happening. Nor am I all that certain that masturbation is universal in games with sex themes–what % of The Sims players does one suppose masturbate to in-game sexual events?

            Furthermore, even if we accept that simulated affection is categorically worse than simulated combat, we should note that there are commercial AAA video games involving simulated torture, e.g. QTEs in which you push a button to inflict pain on someone so they give you magically accurate information. That disturbs me much more than outright pornography.

          • Sheng-ji says:

            @Droopy – It’s not so much this game, it’s that, pretty universally, places which serve porn in any format come with grim and depraved associations. I’ve just had a look at a very popular site serving free videos. Doesn’t matter how classy the sites content is when they are serving adverts of a woman taking a poo and another woman masturbating furiously and splashing juices all over the camera like a hosepipe. That kind of depravity is synonymous with porn and I don’t want it anywhere I want to shop. Simple as that. You may choose to avoid a store for all sorts of reasons, I would avoid one which exposes me to that. And yes, my friends would judge me if they thought i was ok with neing in an environment with that around, not howmyou are insinuating they would react, but judge they would. I understand a lot of adolescents masturbate and quite a few adults too, I understand there is nothing in any way wrong with it, but I’m not a prude because I choose not to join in and I’m not a prude because I don’t want to see it. I don’t use a kindle myself so I can’t know what Amazon is like, but given that they sell an instruction manual, and a serious one at that, for how to be a paedophile, I’m guessing that it’s not great.

            By the way, if I am not allowed to use the term masturbation, as you have decided its only for those of you who perform the act, what am I supposed to refer to you as, as a collective: Wankers?

          • Droopy The Dog says:

            I wasn’t saying you can’t use the term masturbation, silly sausage. I was poking fun at the euphamistic “people who enjoy masturbation”, like there’s a whole bunch of people out there just going through the motions like it’s a chore.

            I didn’t say how your aquaintances would react, simple that if they reacted like that it’d be puritanical. Not wanting to interact with or see explicit isn’t particularly harmfully prudish and not what I’d take issue with. But rather than avoid it yourself (seriously, every major retailer tucks it away so you don’t stumble on it by accident) you’re asking that no-one else be allowed to see it either, that’s the bad kind of prudish. As an adult you have a responsibility to seek out and enact your own personal preferences for yourself without interferring unduely with others. That includes not expecting everyone else to conform to yours for your own convinience.

            Also, for someone uninterested in the act you seem to have a great deal of interest in whether people do or don’t themselves (as well as inuendous puns). If you find it so distasteful, surely it doesn’t help to constantly involve yourself in the personal comings (ahem) and goings of others? It’s not like I particularly want to discuss any such personal matters until a subject like this is brought up.

        • The Godzilla Hunter says:

          Amazing. Someone actually seems to understand the difference between graphic violence and graphic sex, and why the argument “but look at the super-violent games being sold” holds no water.

          Also, I laughed.

      • Delusibeta says:

        It’s not specific to America. I’d be willing to bet good money that at least one media outlet in every country in Western Europe will whine about Seduce Me in the event it was being sold on Steam.

        • Droopy The Dog says:

          +1 for the daily mail

          • apocraphyn says:

            STEAMY SEX SHOCKER – STEAM, an online videogame store that is freely accessed by children around the globe, is profiting from a SCANDALOUS smutty product that they have recently put on sale.”

            Meanwhile, there’d naturally be a double-page spread advertisement for Fifty Shades of Whatever on the following page.

    • The Godzilla Hunter says:

      I find it quite hilarious that they attempt to frame Valve as evil suppressors of free speech, acting as if their game is a piece of art “pushing the boundaries”, when, in fact, it is nothing more than porn.

      On the business side, it could easily be that, to sell porn, and that is exactly what Seduce Me is, you need various licenses in various countries (though I am not entirely sure of that) and would need someone to actively inspect each submission. I am sure that no one at Valve, where all employees choose which project they work on, really wants to work on that.

      • The Random One says:

        I haven’t played the game, but it does look like a hentai game with Western graphics and plot. The problem is not really that this game specifically was banned, but that it was banned just because it’s about sex. It’s not far fetched to imagine that a game that actually explored sexuality in a meaningful way would be similarly dismissed.

        The license thing doesn’t hold up. I’m in Brazil and games need to be certified by the government to be sold here. Steam doesn’t bother with that. They don’t have Brazilian offices so purchases there are considered imports and are out of the local authorities jurisdiction.

        • The Godzilla Hunter says:

          I could very easily be wrong with the whole licenses thing, and I do not, at the moment, feel like looking up the legality of selling porn. My argument still stands that, possibly, no one wants to work on making steam sell porn.

          While I could see how your example could get people angry, I just find it funny that the creators of Seduce Me act as if that is what their game is, when it is just porn. With your example, I could see how someone might get indigent, but not with what they are peddling.

          But Valve is banning the game because it has explicit content, as the Witcher is on steam, but because the game is ONLY explicit content. I doubt the game has any urns in it, so thus, it is not art. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist the reference.)

    • malkav11 says:

      I think there is a place for that sort of thing, and surely -someone- should sell it, but Valve appears to not want Steam to be that place. So be it. They are not required to.

  3. rustybroomhandle says:

    Sooo, in the interest of public safety… Seduce Me Wot I Think? :)

  4. MasterBoo says:

    There was an amazing blog post on the programming process of the original StarCraft. Gained lots of press/shares yesterday: http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-to-starcraft

  5. GameCat says:

    Speaking about this “Valve Greenlight $100 fee” article. It came with good points. For some devs $100 is very much. I’m living in Poland. $1 = 3,2 PLN (local currency). I pay 350PLN per month for renting a room, so I can study in other city than my hometown. Other 400-500PLN goes for food, bus tickets and sometimes for games/books/music.

    So I must choose between eating a pasta with ketchup for whole month or paying Valve for “we might put your game on Steam”. :x
    Sure I can borrow money from someone, but still, it sucks. :x

    • AngoraFish says:

      I would personally prefer Valve charge at least $500 in order to exclude thousands of university game development assignments written in a bedroom from clogging up the system, even if it means that one or two genius-grade projects need to find another route onto the platform (Kickstarter, anyone?).

      • eks says:

        Then what purpose is Greenlight suppose to serve in this $500 entry world of yours? It’s certainly not to accept obscure indie games, because what indie dev in their right mind would pay $500 for a marginal chance of getting their game on Steam?

        Those that have that type of money to throw away at a chance of getting their game on a single platform are not the type of devs that need the assistance of Greenlight in the first place.

        • AngoraFish says:

          The purpose is exactly what Valve explains it to be. It is not some utopian mechanism for obscure vanity projects to find an audience.

          It is a way of offloading some of the quality control responsibilities from Valve to the crowd, and perhaps an opportunity to raise in prominence games with lower public profiles but large supporter bases that Valve might otherwise have missed.

          Greenlight was never intended to open the flood-gates to indie developers everywhere, and rightly so.

          • FhnuZoag says:

            No, it was apparently intended to make Jonathan Blow richer without any effort on Valve’s end.

            I’m boycotting Greenlight. You really should buy direct from the developers anyway, so that your money supports them, instead of lining Valve’s pockets. But I think that fundamentally the Greenlight idea is opposed to the indie games I know and love. Indie games should not be a lottery about a few developers getting lucky and earning millions. It should be a separate ecosystem allowing a democratisation of game development.

          • mwoody says:

            Meh, you could make that argument for everything. “How dare you buy eggs from a grocery store!? They get a huge markup; go get them from the farm!”

            I like having all (or, at least, most) of my catalog under one roof. I get frustrated with Steam’s DRM – their offline mode is nonfunctional, for one – but I recognize its necessity, and the benefit is worth the cost.

          • FhnuZoag says:

            If you genuinely could buy eggs direct from a farmer’s market, or whatever, you should, for this exact reason. Getting games direct from the developer is of trivial difficulty, really. At least personally to me, I’ve never seen any advantages of convenience come from using Steam – if anything, Steam is annoying because it insists on keeping games on a separate list invisible to Windows 7′s own start menu search prompt. Origin/GOG/Gamersgate are a lot better in this respect.

          • Lowbrow says:

            Actually, buying products directly from the farm is hugely wasteful and inefficient, and no one should do it unless at a farmer’s market or other scheduled distribution point. It saves a lot of fuel/energy/air pollution to have large shipments going out from the farm to distribution centers vs everyone driving their personal vehicle out to the farm to pick up milk and eggs.

      • FhnuZoag says:

        I’d like to point out that the average net worth of a single black woman in America is $5.

    • Unaco says:

      Or… Don’t go on Steam Greenlight. It’s not a privilege, it’s not a right.

      • mondomau says:

        Exactly. It’s simply a marketing tactic with caveats attached. I get that people are a bit miffed at what feels like a bait and switch (which it actually isn’t), since greenlight looked to be the answer to every struggling developers prayers, but now it involves a financial commitment, but there is a definite air of entitlement beginning to permeate a lot of the criticism being levelled at valve.

        • zeroskill says:

          When it comes to criticising Valve I have rarely seen anybody made any reasonable arguments on pages like these. There are some people that just hate on Valve by default because they don’t like hats or they don’t like Steam, and they will use any excuse to hate on them and right now it’s Greenlight.

          You can generally filter those people out easily by how rediculous their arguments are or by how misinformed those specific people generally are. Real criticism and constructive feedback, whether that would be targeted at Steam, Greenlight, Team Fortress 2 or Dota 2, is happening actually all the time in the right places though, and Valve, for the most part, is listening and reacting to that, which is great.

          • The Random One says:

            Those people exist to balance out the people who will mindlessly defend Valve regardless of how many puppies they kick because they thought Half Life was pretty cool.

    • zeroskill says:

      I live in Czech Republic which is pretty comaprable in my experience to Poland, and I can assure you, you wont find a place to live a month in for 100$. Thats rediculous.

      Sounds like an argument made by someone who has no idea how much living actually costs.

      Furthermore, if you invest a considerable amount of time to develop a video game and you can’t raise 100$ for basically publicity, I think you are in the wrong business.

    • slyscorpion says:

      320 PLN (or zloty if you want :D) is not THAT much even with our horribly weak Polish currency. It might be a lot if you are working at a job that only pays 1000 PLN/month after taxes, but I would think that people who are designing and programming these games are working in fields that earn them a bit more than the pittance paycheck that is 1000 PLN.

      Also, you can easily borrow 320 zloty from friends and family. Now, if the entry fee for Steam’s Greenlight was $500, then I would agree with you because that would be someone’s entire paycheck for the MONTH and it would be a lot harder to collect that kind of cash due to our rather piss-poor economy.

  6. Om says:

    That’s some fall from grace that Stardock are undergoing…

    • bluebomberman says:

      And they hired some great talent to work on Fallen Enchantress too! But with all due respect to Derek Paxton and Jon Shafer, I don’t see how I can support their game while Brad Wardell’s at the helm.

      • ReV_VAdAUL says:

        By depriving Stardock of money you are encouraging those talented people to leave and go elsewhere. That way they will be working on projects that wont be benefiting the truly awful person that is Wardell.

  7. Xantonze says:

    I have a naïve question about Kickstarter, seeing how many seemingly “bound to fail” projects manage to get to their goals with uncanny last minute pushes:
    Is it somehow possible for the developpers to invest on their own games (even if it means paying those with the money they finally get as the Kickstarter succeeds, meaning they would have to make do with less money overall to develop them)?
    Is it possible for fans to “fake” invest on the games to avoid the projects failing?
    I don’t want to imply anybody being dishonest, but I would like to know if those possibilities are being adressed at all.

    • Sheng-ji says:

      It is against the T&C, but merely place the money into the bank account of a friend or family member and have them do it and you will never be caught.

    • AngoraFish says:

      Note that the developers themselves set these goals. There’s no practical difference between Joe Developer asking for $20,000 and then kicking in $5000 at the last minute to get the game over the line, and simply asking for $15,000 in the first place… hell, they could set their goal at $500 and make the whole thing, to all intents and purposes, a ‘flexible funding’ arrangement.

      • Xantonze says:

        It makes sense, indeed. Except if they thought they could get 20000 in the first place. Setting an higher goal encourages people to give more money, since they think more money is needed to actually make the game (and of course to have the Kickstarter succeed). If Joe Dev sees that he’s going to fall short on this, but still feels the money being given would be enough, I can imagine him pitching those last 5000 just to make it happen (also, I wonder how “re-posting” a failed Kickstarter impacts the donations and enthousiasm of the would-be-givers)

        Thank you all for your answers!

        • AngoraFish says:

          In general, retail psychology suggests that people like to pile on a ‘winner’ (if it looks like someone else thinks something is worthy, this will in-turn influence others to think there must be something in that).

          There’s also a fair amount of anecdotal evidence around that, if a KS doesn’t look like it’s going to make its goal, pledges tend to dry up.

          The real problem with developers kicking in their own funds at the last minute is that, if they genuinely think they need a particular total to make a game (and are presumably aiming at the bare minimum), ending up with something less than that is potentially setting the exercise up for failure.

          • The Random One says:

            Personally, I’m less likely to contribute to a project if its funding been reached, since at that point it’s wiser to just wait for the product to come out. I wonder if I’m an outlier or if there are enough people like me that a project that is close but not quite across its goals will end up better than one barely over it.

    • MadMatty says:

      I think the last minute “uncanniness” comes from last minute PR drives by fans on gaming forums and social boards.
      Like this Kickstarter : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts
      I´ve predicted its kickstarter funding rather correctly, and its reliant on press releases for donation spikes, and donations will slowly dwindle from the dates of those. Also, a spike around the start of a month, when poorer gamers have money again.
      I think they´ll get just short of their 3rd stretch goal, and then some rabid fans like me, will do a minor PR drive to get the last 100,000$ for a super exciting feature such as the “Galactic War” they are suggesting.

      I think that explains it.

      • EPICTHEFAIL says:

        It`s not like TotalBiscuit did an interview that got 150k views or anything. If a tenth of those viewers chip in, that`s still loads of extra money for the devs.

      • Andy_Panthro says:

        The best website for monitoring it all is http://www.kicktraq.com/ – Not sure who first mentioned it to me, but it’s a pretty good website.

        From the few projects I’ve looked at, it’s mainly the start that gets the funding spike (initial publicity boost). Most tend to be fairly steady after that, although I’m sure getting you game covered by a major website would boost your funding significantly.

  8. frightlever says:

    I’ve been calling Frogboy an asshole for almost a decade so I’m somewhat gratified to see the rest of the world catch up.

    Do I boycott Stardock games? No, of course not. I don’t buy games from companies that screw me over with bad DRM or half-assed ports. Stardock, despite a couple of blunders, generally listen to their customers and do their best to make quality games. Brad will or will not be dealt with on his own merits. Despite the fact that he’s the sole owner of Stardock, the company is more than him and is composed of a bunch of employees (who clearly are walking on eggshells on a daily basis) who don’t deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

  9. Caiman says:

    I’m not sure I see the value of Kotaku’s piece on glassdoor.com. It would be like taking all the 1-star reviews for PC games on Amazon.com and trying to get an accurate impression of what those games are like. I don’t even trust glassdoor.com to provide an unbiased opinion, particularly as disgruntled employees are more likely to comment that those who feel no need to vent. That’s not to say some of these companies don’t deserve criticism, but I don’t think cherry-picking the most provocative negative comments is going to help.

    • faint0fhearts3 says:

      Everything Kotaku does is to just get hits. They start controversies, create BS articles, etc. just to get a few hits. I can’t stand that site.

  10. videogone says:

    So I’ve not heard much about Brad Wardell ever; he used to write in to the Idle Thumbs podcast occasionally, but that’s the majority of my exposure to him. So I was quite surprised indeed when I read about this debacle. As I was in a bit of a state of confusion, I started looking for more ammunition with which to actively dislike him, so I went to his Wikipedia article. All I needed was this statement in relation to his decision to ship Stardock stuff and things via FedEx because of “a UPS advertising boycott which he thought included Fox News”:
    “As a conservative, it is nice that there’s one station where my values aren’t ridiculed”.
    Well, to be honest, all I would have needed was:
    “As a conservative…”
    This is actually more or less what I expected when I saw that he was born in Texas. Call me an awful human being.

    • Axess Denyd says:

      You are an awful human being.

    • Zenicetus says:

      If you’re looking for more ammunition to actively dislike the guy, just check out this review of his “novel” that came out when Elemental was released:

      http://www.unamommer.com/?p=109

      Note the political undercurrents, and the adolescent-level sexual themes. The guy has been an asshole online for years: the kind of asshole that can only result from being financially cushioned and able to live in a bubble. Looks like this lawsuit (the harassment one) may finally pop the bubble.

      I wouldn’t say all this is enough to make me actively boycott a Stardock product, because the world is full of assholes and Wardell is just unusually clueless and public about it. And there was that one game series that I did enjoy (GalCiv2). But it sure does raise the bar pretty high on how good a future Stardock game has to be, before I’ll start caring about it. At this point, they’d have to release an exceptionally good, must-have, AAA quality game before I’d throw any money his way. So far, I haven’t seen the studio moving in that direction. It might never happen with that kind of work environment.

  11. Radiant says:

    That Seduce Me article breaks my heart.

    Relationships and sex or sex in relationships are done so poorly in games.

    Sometimes I dismiss it as a comment on the games developer’s lives but that article indicates it’s probably something a lot deeper than that.

    • hello_mr.Trout says:

      ‘Relationships and sex or sex in relationships are done so poorly in games.’

      maybe it has something to do with (relatively) large groups of people developing any given game, and obscuring any type of meaning, emotional impact, or even realistic depiction of sex? for example, the games made by anna anthropy (i’m thinking specifically of dys4ia) seem to have a pretty personal & intimate take on gender & sexual stuff. i guess the compromise is that it is super low-tech however.

      • Radiant says:

        Of course, that’s also a wider comment on what makes AAA games generically similar; the difficulty to stamp a remotely personal idea or mechanic onto a game of that size.

        War and saving the universe is easy; but an honest emotion is maybe too difficult a concept.

        • Greggh says:

          That is not a problem of the games as a medium, per se. It’s just that society (more specifically the people that compose said society) really hasn’t developed that far into sexual issues to the point of being able to discuss it or even expressing it in public with comfort and openness.
          Sexuality is repressed in general and thought to be something you MUST keep to yourself and just deal with it. That view alone can create a whole myriad of issues. The poor depiction of sexuality (massive understatment here) in games is – in part at least – a reflection of this.

    • AngoraFish says:

      Maybe relationships and sex are done so poorly because every time someone tries to do something interesting with these themes the puritan horde rises up to smash it.

      The only games that are actually going to succeed financially at some level at this point are those that can survive off the creepier corners of the internet where ‘public opinion’ is already largely ignored.

  12. harrybizzle says:

    I find it impossible believe that if you have an idea which is any way worth getting onto Steam, and you are genuinely that broke, you could not either just find ten friends to give your $10 each or start a $100 kickstarter.

    • The Random One says:

      You do know that you need to be an U.S. based company to start a Kickstarter project, right? And that some people live paycheck to paycheck and there is a chance none of your friends have $10 because they literally have no money?

      • AngoraFish says:

        If you’re finding it hard to pay $10 bills, odds are your game is crap due to lack of resources for development, and lack of time due to working in the salt mine to pay for gruel. And there are many alternatives to KS… indiegogo perhaps?

      • Lemming says:

        This autumn apparently KS is going to be usable in EU as well.

  13. MadMatty says:

    Uh Oh getting a bad feeling about Planetside 2……
    The EvE like Cert system (which isnt in the Beta yet) coupled with XP boosters, and buying minerals, to pay for, say vehicles, worries me a bit.
    It all comes down to Final Balancing, and ok, working Joe Average can, as far as im concerned, have a decent XP boost, since hes not (under)priviliged enough to sit at home and play all day, and still wants to play semi-competively. I mean, the basement dwellers have just as much XP, but they also have more gameplay experience, which makes them hard to compete with.
    But he´s talking about Offline experience gain…. which isn´t as fishy as EvE onlines, because of the free-to-play model…. but still. Lets wait it out….
    Had some bad experiences with EvE, where i´d Sub for a while, then took a longer break, and when i came back any n00b with a creditcard would out do me. Hardly sporting as far as i´m concerned.

    Anyway PS2 Beta is rolling, and its cracking basic gameplay, without any of the unlocks or XP certs working, so theres no interference from that yet. Also, theyre working steadily on AMD processor optimizations, and I have been successfull getting into medium sized engagements, since about a week ago :)

  14. AmateurScience says:

    The malaria in FC2 piece has some of the most laborious simile usage in like, ever! (taxis/mosquitoes etc).

    I thought it was an interesting mechanic. Sure it was totally inaccurate (I work with mosquitoes/malaria both in the UK and in Mali), the guy comes down sick within ten minutes of arriving for one, when it usually takes a week to develop any symptoms at all after being infected, and in any case, malaria is an extremely treatable disease (especially if you’ve got money) and so would pose hardly any risk to the main protagonist with all his rough diamonds and cash etc.

    BUT as a plot/gameplay device, it added extra depth to the game and extra ‘flavour’ to an already excellently realised african setting.

  15. Jackablade says:

    Call me cynical if you will, but I’d speculate we’d be hearing just as much bleating about Seduce Me if it hadn’t been taken down from Greenlight, much of it from the same people who’re making the noise now.

  16. Colonel J says:

    Good god, Dead End Thrills always does remarkable work but he’s excelled himself with those Skyrim shots. Stunning.

  17. Axess Denyd says:

    It is at least as realistic as its approach to other injuries. Setting a broken ankle and then running full speed, pulling a bullet out with a leatherman to increase health, and of course the magic syringes that heal everything but malaria.

    I would say the malaria added more annoyance than anything.

  18. Stellar Duck says:

    About the malaria:

    Of course it weren’t realistic as such. But neither was pulling out slugs and off you go be merry.

    It did however add an element of uncertainty: it might pop at a wholly inconvenient time, forcing me to adapt on the fly if I was in combat. I loved that very much. Same with the guns jamming up. I was always at the mercy of factors outside my control and I loved those moments where everything went to shit.

    They are some of the main reasons I think that bar a few annoyances, Far Cry 2 is one of the best games made in a long time.

    • Arglebargle says:

      You must really hate games….

      • Stellar Duck says:

        I do. I hate games so much that I’ve only bought hundreds of the damned things.

        I hate games so much that I can actually appreciate what Far Cry 2 does right (most things) and live with what it does wrong (the weirdly aggressive enemies).

  19. phenom_x8 says:

    How dare you all not to share this one:

    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/pax_2012_20_craziest_costumes

    My favorite?? The last one (Batman and that vault 01 guy)

  20. faint0fhearts3 says:

    Warning long read but I would really appreciate if you took the time to read it <3

    After seeing the Brad Wardell story on the list I was afraid to look at the comments. Long time reader and first time poster…honestly I made an account to just say thank you. This community really is something special and just thank you.

    I'll try to keep this as short as possible but every other site this has been reported on the comments are filled with this clear vile hatred of women that really emphasizes the stereotype that gamers are misogynistic assholes. I've tried commenting on this story and the responses I've received were "you must be one ugly bitch that can't get laid" or "the only sexist here is you against men." I've received some decent responses but the overwhelming majority was negative.

    Despite the overwhelming evidence and proof against Brad this poor woman is deemed as someone who is just after his money as apparently all women are in cases like this according to some of those posters. Because there is no such thing as sexual harassment we just want your money so we can rinse you dry /sarcasm. So I just want to take a moment and comment on this. It's going to be long and I'm sorry.

    My honest reaction is most of this vile hatred comes from the United States. I honestly, sincerely don't mean to stereotype an entire nation. There are jerks in every part of the world but honestly the biggest sexism comes from here and not Europe. I am American so yeah not trying to to go on some anti-American rant here. In the US when your politicians are so anti-woman what do you expect? This idea that rich, white men can get away with everything and say anything about women is prevalent here in this Country.

    1. When a major political party is against equal pay for equal work, against abortions even in the case of rape, against birth control pills and women that take it are sluts what else do you expect a vast majority of its people to be?

    2. When a major political party forces a woman to watch another have an abortion before having her own (humiliating the poor girl even further) or forcing ultrasounds, etc. what else do you expect the Countries attitude against women to be. These aren't laws they want to pass some of these laws have passed in states such as Arizona.

    3. When you have politicians that use language such as "legitimate rape" you know as opposed to "I am so enjoying this but going to pretend it's rape so I can sue you" kind *rolls eyes* what else do you expect. When you have politicians telling people that during a legitimate rape we don't get aroused so we don't get wet; meaning that our bodily functions shut down and we can't get pregnant during a "real" rape what else do you expect? No I'm not making this up.

    4. The US is a breeding ground for misogynistic douche bags. From our culture to our politics. Rich, white men in this Country are given a free pass to do whatever they want. People such as Brad Wardell face no consequences and just reading the comments I've seen people actually defend it. The Country is stuck in the 18th Century. Half this Countries politicians and the majority of the people believe in the bible literally and think we were created to pump out babies and cook/clean. If we have sex for pleasure we are sluts and how dare us ask for equal pay.

    Again I honestly do not mean to categorize an entire Country this way… of course every place has its good and bad but my God the culture here against women is disgusting. I want one of these fuckers to walk in my shoes for a month here in LA and see how they like it. Just to take the disgusting comments and harassment I get on any given month.

    A lot of this translates to the gaming world as well. I just can't use a mic. At all. Over 50% of the time I get harassed, insulted, you name it. I can't even enjoy my hobby without some douche bag bothering me. Gotta love the ones that tell me my voice is annoying and I need a dick in my mouth then after a game try and friend me on Steam. I just stopped playing MP games for the most part because I can't communicate with team mates. There is almost always someone there to put me down.

    It's so damn frustrating and I just wanted to rant here because I just really love this community especially after reading the responses here. I'm not some male hating, crazy person but when so much of your life is filled dealing with sexist, immature assholes you just want to rip your hair out.

    PS: I'm just going to say kotaku is the worst offender. A post gets put where a woman is playing the Skyrim theme and since she's attractive she's an attention whore. A slut who is showing off by swaying her hips as she plays. A whore that needs to gtfo of the Internet and anyone that defends her is just trying to kiss her ass. How fitting that she's playing next to a old brothel. Those were literally some of the comments I read.

    So just again…thank you RPS community for being so damn awesome.

    • RegisteredUser says:

      I agree with you and I feel terrible about the state of politics in America.
      The american people I know don’t deserve the government they have got.

      It completely weirds me out that there is no larger movement against the kind of mysogynistic freak policies that are out there(I mean, at the very least don’t these politicians have daughters? Wives? Don’t they even ever meet other adult females? How does someone GET to a point where they come up with all these ideas for medical treatment policies / female segregation?).

      As Kristen Gillibrand said on The Daily Show: Do you really think we’d be talking about contraception if more than 50% of congress were women? (Or claiming you can suppress impregnation by just not wanting it?)

      Its painful to see, watch and hear, and I feel really quite bad about all of this.
      And not just in the gender issue department, but overall(logic, honesty, followthrough, etc.).

      (As for the gaming sexism point, I would like to point out that most importantly, there is a culture and a social reproduction of sexism. faint0fhearts3 did not say “Well clearly all the sexist videogames caused the gamers to be sexist to me online”. The roots sit elsewhere, the media ends up being a reflection of what’s around in attitudes and ideas.)

      I think there is something like a reactionist vs modernist fight still raging. Normally I would say that the more education you get, the more religion and extremist standpoints diminish, and thus secularization tends to come in in the modern age slowly but surely.
      But America has a very strong, almost locked-off sectioning of the country the states have a lot of independent powers, and the fact that there essentially are only 2 parties, one of which is still – despite all the source of science residing in the USA – siding with the idea that the world was created in 7 days and not very much older than a few thousand years(carbon dating? Hooey!) and that that’s perfectly fine to teach(!) in educational(not religious) facilities owned and run by the state, well..

      Thats just a pretty crazy fact for someone sitting across the Atlantic to see. But it shows how tough and hard-ingrained this stuff is. A way of life is pretty tough to change radically until something really comes to disturb it.

      I still think that education and as much exposure to diversity as possible is one of the few things that help; but sadly enough there are ongoing and constant efforts to curb just that (power considerations; things like Fox News just as much as “tradition”, churches, etc).

      And one cannot overstate the power of re-interpretation / spin and evasion. Originally you would think the country was founded to get away from being too nutty about religion.
      But in another way, the age of enlightment never really took hold for all of America, partly due to being instantly converted and repurposed via patriotism, nationalism, and also capitalism being intertwined with religious beliefs of a proper life’s purpose(see for example “the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism”).

      So if there’s one thing America can do well, its to make up its own logic and reasoning as it goes along and then stick to that for as long as possible, as strongly as possible. But it also does radical, social change, when it really wants to(ending segregation, the women’s rights movement).
      Sadly there always seem to be so many of the “others” / reactionist powers still left, that thanks to the place being large enough also have enough room to still maneuver in.

      Lets hope that some day it wont just be a question of red vs blue(men vs women, us vs them) anymore, but that people overall will have some sense and compassion in them, and work more on a “together” than an “against” logic.

      • faint0fhearts3 says:

        I don’t have a problem with games like Tera, Tomb Raider, what have you. I’ve come to accept that the majority of games are playing out our fantasies. Tera women have massive breasts, skimpy armor, etc. but you know what the men are shown with the same overdone sexuality. They have perfect abs, skin tight clothing, etc. To be quite honest I enjoy some of the ridiculous outfits it’s fantasy it’s not real. I don’t mind having my GW2 character wear a short sexy skirt, heels, etc. In fact I would prefer that over something more conservative.

        The problem is the gaming media focuses on this BS and not on actual sexism. Why don’t they focus on the fact that a lot of women developers don’t get payed the same amount as men for the same job? Instead they make this huge controversy out of nothing (IE: The tomb raider controversy). Why is that controversy? There is not a woman on Earth that hasn’t dealt with some form of sexual harassment so if a game wants to show a hand on Lara and then she pulls out a gun and shoots the fucker in the face so be it. That’s not sexist. What’s sexist is the behavior of some of these gamers and others. What’s sexist is trying to pretend that sexual harassment doesn’t happen…it has nothing to do with the games they consume. Kudos to the Tomb Raider developers for what they are doing with that game. I’ll be the first in line to buy it.

        PS: To your glass point in the other post. Watching that scene in Black Ops made me cringe. Watching my GW2 character run around in her skirt, heels, and crop top doesn’t. The most vile, disgusting form of violence in the US is completely okay (torture) but a woman showing skin we can’t have that! My eyes!! The devil!!!

        The new Splinter Cell game has a scene where you torture someone as well. Where is the controversy? Isn’t that a game promoting an illegal act? Saying that it’s a legitimate way to gain information? That’s not controversial but Tomb Raider is?

      • noclip says:

        The American people deserve exactly the government we have.

        • AngoraFish says:

          Unfortunately, due to the American hegemony, the rest of us have to put up with it as well.

        • RegisteredUser says:

          Do better people produce better governing powers or does a better government also produce a better people?

          Regardless, I don’t think anyone should ever really, truly “deserve” the kind of enforced party lines and to-dishonesty-reduction, self-blocking, the other side constantly antagonizing, own-country estranging crap-fest thats been going on.

    • Sheng-ji says:

      “A lot of this translates to the gaming world as well. I just can’t use a mic. At all. Over 50% of the time I get harassed, insulted, you name it. I can’t even enjoy my hobby without some douche bag bothering me. Gotta love the ones that tell me my voice is annoying and I need a dick in my mouth then after a game try and friend me on Steam. I just stopped playing MP games for the most part because I can’t communicate with team mates. There is almost always someone there to put me down.”

      This. A million times this!!! I don’t think guys understand how this attitude blocks any game where communication is important, because it only takes one or two, and they tend to follow you, game to game, server to server. I remember, I think it was the original Project Gotham which came with sex changing effects which worked really really well, and that was more than 10 years ago? That was the last game I was able to enjoy online using voice chat because even if I didn’t use the effect myself, most people assume that you are a guy using the female one. It was fantastic but I haven’t seen it replicated since, which is a great shame.

      • Stellar Duck says:

        Not a girl, me, but I made the choice to only play in communities where people will be perma banned for that sort of behaviour.

        A guy being obnoxious to one of the female players? A player makes a racist remark? No warning. Instant perma ban and no appeal. It says so in the rules when you join the server. Hell, if you swear you get a warning. If you keep it up you get perma banned.I like that state of affairs. Some might argue that banning for swearing is too much but frankly it does wonders for the atmosphere of the servers.

        I know that large swathes of the internet is a lot worse but I can’t change everything. I can only do my bit and that basically involves playing in well regulated servers and and chastising bad behaviour where I see it.

      • faint0fhearts3 says:

        If Left 4 Dead had something like that I’d be so happy. You just can’t type in that game you need a mic to communicate. I quit because of how much harassment I endured in that game. For a while I didn’t use a mic and people criticized me and once I started using it again the harassment started. So I have quit playing games I love because of this. If there was ever a L4D3 what would be the point of me buying it? Even though I absolutely love it I just wouldn’t get it. None of my friends play video games and I have like 2 people on my Steam friends list but they mostly play games I don’t play.

        • RegisteredUser says:

          I have / play L4D2 occassionally, though to be fair I never used a mic. Probably would be an issue with the timezone outside of the weekend though.

          Usually if the team knows the map, it boils down to everyone already knowing their positions and at best someone at some point types out “I’m going for the switch / trigger / whatever”. Actually, come to think of it, usually all we ever write and reply is “Ready?” “Yes” when finishing up getting ready for one of the defensive posts in various levels, about to alert the horde with the next move. :P

          Anyway, there are lots of groups strewn all over the place that might help solve this. RPS itself for example runs groups like the team fortress 2 or other thingies, though they, too, likely will be more in european timezones.

      • AngoraFish says:

        I’ve stopped playing these games because most gamers are arseholes. As a guy, I get subject to a torrent of abuse as well. One’s inability to stop pubs from joining my games, just to insult me, killed L4D for me.

        • RegisteredUser says:

          I don’t know if this does anything for you, but one of the best damndest dual pistol wielding shooters and medics in the whole game of RTCW:ET was a girl, age 16, from my own country.
          I had the good fortune of running into her one night and getting first pwned to pieces, and later having her join my team out of mutual respect.

          We added each other via ICQ and played occassionally. She never once got any crap whatsoever in RTCW:ET from anyone else, but then again her nickname was fairly gender neutral and there was no voice used.
          Not sure if that was it, or whether people were just nicer on our servers used(though I think she did make a point of at times mentioning she was a girl doing what she did).
          I would quite honestly think / hope the latter, as it was a netherlands based clan server and the clanners all were pretty cool people when they were around.

          • faint0fhearts3 says:

            I’d definitely say it does depend on the game and region as well. I think some games just draw a much mature audience where that stuff would be few and far away. That’s also a really cool story thank you.

    • 2helix4u says:

      Man here, and also from the UK so let me just say you Americans do not have a monopoly on misogyny.
      A lot of misogyny comes from fear of women, the idea that men and women are fundamentally different is deeply entrenched in many societies, including the West. Changing this opinion to accept that as a man you are likely to have as much in common with a random woman as a random man would involve an enormous shift in thinking and the way many men view the world.
      Anecdote: A friend was once talking about how he hated “feminists” because they would get angry when he insisted on walking them home at night. When I asked him to put himself in their shoes and that he was a stranger assuming that they could not look after themselves as well as he could look after them merely because of their gender it really freaked him out.

      As a son of a staunch feminist it never occurred to me not to be one, that seemed reserved for myopic old men, but in a group of friends who consider ourselves open minded and willing to discuss anything this still remains one of the only things I cannot get my male friends to give any leeway on.
      These friends of mine aren’t misogynist, but they are sexist in that they believe being a woman means certain things and some of those things are negative. (This is sexist in the same way that believing the colour of someones skin means certain things about the person is a racist assumption)

      Our patriarchal society (and it is) hurts both men and women, women are to be pursued and if you cannot “win” one that means you are less of a man. This builds resentment in men who find themselves seemingly unable to form a healthy relationship with women, especially to gamers and nerds who tend to attach to one girl and try to solve the mystery of winning her attraction like a puzzle, to them the problem obviously lies in what women perceive as desirable. “I’m a nice guy, but all women want hot bad boys who treat them like shit.”
      The first comment on kotaku shows this with a guy saying she wouldn’t care about sexual harassment if the guy was hot, which of course she would and just shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding. The commenter has also clearly been hurt in the past by rejection.
      Even my friends who are in relationships tend to see women as something you put up with for the sake of having a relationship, someone you have to call and see for a set amount of time so you can go hang out with your friends. Happily this is not the case in my own relationship but for a few years I disliked women myself because I was lonely and didn’t really like myself.
      The comment on kotaku just makes me so sad because these people are so clearly sad and lonely and lash out in a way that perpetuates that.They fear impotence and emasculation so they do it to themselves and others.

      • faint0fhearts3 says:

        Right and I made it clear that of course this isn’t just about the United States. Only that it seems Europe as a whole is far more evolved than the United States. When your own Govt. is stuck in the 18th Century and believes in the bible literally what do you expect? When you have a hearing on contraceptives and the ENTIRE panel is filled with 50-70 year old men and not a single woman present what can you expect from its population?

        This is a Country where people boo the thought of a gay soldier in the military, a Country where people yell out “let him die” in a political debate where the moderator asks what should happen to someone without health insurance. This Country is wholly owned by Corporate America and it’s a “me, me, me” society. Half this Country is brainwashed to believe our health care is the best in the world and women are treated as if we belong in the kitchen cooking/cleaning and of course pumping out kids. A woman that takes contraceptives is a slut, a woman who wants an abortion is a murderer and should be jailed, the list goes on.

        Again I want to stress this isn’t the whole Country but it is a vast and scary number.

  21. RegisteredUser says:

    I find it kind of interesting that a quite terribly written book with fairly reductionist and not very “strong” female tones is not just selling like hotcakes, but is predominantly bought, consumed and paraded by women (50 shades of grey).
    I would say, because books are very much “their medium”(means to say: stimulates imagination, fantasy; tickles a way of experiencing information that is enjoyable to them).

    Now show or tell any girl you like about playing “videogames” that are about sex or contain it, and you’ll be viewed as an outcast, freak, or otherwise malaligned human being. Shucks, even showing you know the actual names of pornographic actresses still has most people making a face at you, because it goes beyond the slowly growing minimum acceptance that, yes, maybe, some, maybe 1 or 2, people might be masturbating to pornography in this world. But just with a quick glance of course, and only because they’re really forced to in a moment of weakness.
    Or something.

    We don’t just have disturbed and weird double standards about violence vs sex (Side A: RPS article about sexist videogames? Be ashamed, you are all assholes, we here at RPS wouldn’t mind a world where every male were killed off and completely extinct. This is an actual, written opinion here, not something I made up to help hyperbole. And then, Side B: Violence and tragedy used to portray games as evil in the media? How terrible a misportrayal, an injustice towards gamer-humanity! Dangerous and stupid!), we even have disturbed and double standards WITHIN the realm of sexuality and sex portrayal.

    If its just done artsy enough? Or in literary form? Well then nudity, sexuality, etc pp is fine, acceptable, presentable. But if its crude? If it dares go into socially unacceptable realms, or even just doesn’t present any pretense or excuse other than wanting to show fucking for the sake of fucking? Then its vile, disgusting, offensive, etc..

    Because yea, no human being with hormones ever had the feeling of wanting to just have sex for the sake of having sex before.

    I don’t much care about the steam thing, because quite honestly, as others have said, they can run their business how they like.

    But there very much is a problem of how we seem to be extremely morally flexible in terms of what’s good / clean / unproblematic / acceptable on the one side, and whats dangerous / mind control like people changing / corrupting / terrible to have exist.

    I for one would rather not have a game about shoving glass in someone’s mouth and then punching that person in said mouth, or another game about using a glass shard to poke someone’s eyes out.
    Maybe I’m just not a glass guy.
    But if those are fine? And even sell in the millions? Then to me you can’t turn around and make a fuss about sex sims, mostly nude characters, rape sims, etc.

    At the very least you need to first explain to me why showing someone in “inappropriate” armour is more misanthropic than stabbing someone’s eyes out or using torture for interrogation.

    And one leg further down:
    If you can give a book about a guy basically reducing another human being to his sex slave as a birthday or going away present to a good friend, you do not get to make a face when someone tells you he’s playing a hentai game about a sex slave.

    All of this crap is just completely gaga.
    And its pretty sad to see that RPS is just another brick in the wall in this double standard circus(virtual sexy makey youu baaaad and especially if you are male you should be ashamed of your existence / virtual violence is just fiiiine) with the way it is handling these issues.

    • Hanban says:

      “RPS article about sexist videogames? Be ashamed, you are all assholes, we here at RPS wouldn’t mind a world where every male were killed off and completely extinct. This is an actual, written opinion here, not something I made up to help hyperbole.”

      Which article was it? If you don’t mind me asking.

      • Jim Rossignol says:

        I suspect that’s irrelevant.

        • Grape Flavor says:

          I’m editing this post because it was unnecessarily confrontational. I do enjoy this website most of the time and I feel my tone was uncalled for.

          However, my point was, his claim is based on an actual quote from one Alec Meer, and therefore is not nearly as irrelevant as you suggest.

      • Shuck says:

        The one that was only published in his imagination, of course!

        • Grape Flavor says:

          It was Alec, and he said something to that effect. I’d like to know what he meant.

          I’m sure I’m going to take a awful lot of flak for claiming this without having the link at hand, but I honestly can’t just stand by, because I distinctly remember the comment he’s referencing.

          Alec probably knows which post it is. Again, it would be very nice of him to find it for us and explain what his intentions were with that statement.

          EDIT: RegisteredUser found the link below.

      • RegisteredUser says:

        Found it.
        Thank you Grape Flavour for helping me with the search terms.

        http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/16/wot-i-think-sleeping-dogs/

        “I have opinions on a great many things- why cats are better than children, why mushrooms are the greatest foodstuff on Earth, why I’d have little-to-no problem with all men being wiped out [..]”

        This in itself wouldn’t jump out to me so starkly if I hadn’t also seen him raise hell over showing tits in The Witcher and various other commentary from him that to me personally felt vaguely like “You’re male? Feel sorry for everything you’ve done to womankind, regardless of whether you did anything”.

        Then we get in depth articles like http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/18/hotline-miami-preview/
        from the same guy, illustrating how you go kill people you don’t even know the names of, and thats all totally kosher.

        Its part of the the point I am trying to make.
        Sex? Tits? Shameful, terrible, bad, unnecessary sexploitation.
        In detail description of killing people dead? Solid RPS article.

        • Grape Flavor says:

          Ah, thank you. I really don’t want to jump to conclusions but that’s a very odd statement to make, and I find it disturbing even as a joke…

          • RegisteredUser says:

            You’re the one I’m thankful for today. :P

            Even within a line of casual jokes it would stand out starkly. It really gave me pause when I read it, because it stood so out of tone. I tried to figure out where it was funny for a while too, then just ended up going..”But…ALL of them? Wasn’t there at least one guy who wasn’t a complete dick and not entirely deserving of death?”.

            Ironically enough, I bet there would have been a non-delayed shitstorm under the article had he, as a terrible, terrible male, used “women” instead.

          • Vinraith says:

            You don’t understand why it’s funny because it’s making fun of people like you.

          • RegisteredUser says:

            Even if that was a bonafide 100%er joke, I still have “joy joy to violent videogaming” article A(as many as you like, really), “the daily mail makes violence seem bad, boooo” article B, and “clearly videogames create sexism, have way too many wrong depictions of women, and endanger not just the youth but everyone” article C(and D, and E, and..) as contrast, all on this site.

            I know I have a point with the allegation that there is an inequal treatment of violence vs sexism in videogames going on here.
            Imagine the stuff were out of paper: cut out the articles dealing with the stuff and put them right next to one another. Its insane.

          • Grape Flavor says:

            @Vinraith
            “People like me”? Oh, and what kind of person is that, pray tell? Please do elaborate, this should be good.

            EDIT: Still waiting! When you gather yourself up and think of something substantive to say instead of casting vague aspersions, I’ll be right here waiting, OK?

        • Vinraith says:

          See how you’re implying it wasn’t a joke, and that on some level Alec was serious? That’s what it was mocking, and I assure you a hell of a lot more than 1% of people got the joke.

          • RegisteredUser says:

            Well I am “implying” / trying to explain best that I can that I formed an impression not just from that line, but from all previously read articles and commentary from him as well.
            While one cunningly placed offhand joke might whoosh over my dumb, self-centered, overly serious pighead, it just slotted into place with everything else I’d seen/read far too well to not give a very bitter taste when I read it.

            Sometimes the people making jokes, even when they really are jokes, reveal a bit of themselves that way. And to me, it rang a bit too close to “it may be a joke, but I’ll be damned if there isn’t at least a grain of something else there as well” for me, personally.

            And sure, it might just all be in my head, but I have a last sliver of hope that I’m not completely delusional and lacking analytical skills in all the data I take in.

            But yes, I am human, therefore I am fallible. It really could be me.

          • Vinraith says:

            That you take the notion seriously that Alec might want to wipe out all men on the planet, and that it “slots into place” into your impression of him, really bears no further comment.

          • Grape Flavor says:

            I am very much assuming he did not mean those words literally. But the question remains as to why someone would think such a joke was funny or appropriate.

    • JackShandy says:

      “…we here at RPS wouldn’t mind a world where every male were killed off and completely extinct. This is an actual, written opinion here, not something I made up to help hyperbole.”

      uh

      • Acorino says:

        uhm…

        • Droopy The Dog says:

          *Awkward throat clearing*

          • The Godzilla Hunter says:

            *Looks down at shoes*

          • DuddBudda says:

            well, since things are awkward enough already, and probably noone will visit this page

            http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6478389/girls-watch-porn-too

          • AmateurScience says:

            Shuffles feet nervously.

          • Greggh says:

            *quietly leaves the room and closes the door behind him*

          • slyscorpion says:

            *nervous wringing of hands*

          • RegisteredUser says:

            Btw, not only is there porn made by women for women, there ARE series where girls go walking/driving around, picking up guys; there is stuff like X-Art, Joymii, Sapphic Erotica, guys like Michael Ninn, firms like Digital Playground, Vivid, and and and, all which are shooting towards more high-end, story/plot/setting/situation driven porn, focus on high quality, “couples porn” and so on.
            And far beyond that, there is an INSANELY huge amateur genre, that caters so much more to the “natural people as opposed to bolt-ons” crowd and “normal people having sex” side.

            Basically, if you think porn is just what 2-3 mainstream labels in the US pump out(or that women don’t watch it, or only enjoy softer stuff, or in any other way shape or form are “only” this or that), you’re just not well / broadly informed.

            Oh, and just because Ron Jeremy is known, that doesn’t mean porn only has fuggos for male talent. While you can argue about to whom they may appeal and whether they are classically beautiful(and just how pretty Jenna Jameson really is/was after her boobjob), people like Lexington Steele, Nacho Vidal, Peter North, Brian Pumper, Brandon Iron, etc, all keep a near bodybuilder physique, are on restrictive diets for their shoots and are just as groomed as their female counterparts.

            In short, prejudice and stereotypes might make for a great collegehumour, but have little to do with what is really going on with porn, porn variety and options for consumption.

            -
            OTOH: If you’re into the whole scene, genre, art, general erotica(got to love that she titles “open source sex”), tinynibbles (Violet Blue’s blog) is a great place to check out.

          • JackShandy says:

            *Starts to say something, hesitates, then quickly takes a drink*

      • Grape Flavor says:

        I know what he’s referencing. Alec did say something to that effect a few weeks ago. “I wouldn’t mind if men were eliminated altogether” or something like that. I think he was joking. I hope he was joking.

        I’m not sure what post this was in, it may have been a few weeks, but he did say that. It’s probably still there.

        If Alec reads this it would be big of him to show us the post and explain what he meant by that instead of racing off to delete it before one of us finds it.

        I’d like to know what he meant by that. I’m sure it was some sort of joke but I’m not sure how it’s supposed to be funny.

        • RegisteredUser says:

          It was exactly this.
          I spent an hour trying to google it, but I am lacking the exact phrase, and its driving me nuts that I didn’t copy it down when I read it. It did blow my mind for a second when I saw it.

          I am very thankful that someone else saw it, too, and is making me look a touch less of a loon.
          Even more so when its you Grape Flavour, because the lord knows we don’t agree on all the things. :P

          So thank you for that.

          Edit: It was the Sleeping Dogs WIT. Thank you for your help.

          • Grape Flavor says:

            Well, this is a pet issue of mine actually. Everyone likes to point out the blatant misogyny that plagues “men’s rights” sites, and they’re right, but it remains incredibly taboo to point out, on the other hand, the not-so-subtle undercurrent of systematic misandry that permeates much of modern “feminism”.

            AKA: Stereotyping women is despicable, denigrating women is despicable, joking about eliminating women is despicable, having men-only spaces is despicable, objectifying women is dispicable, stereotyping men is funny, denigrating men is funny, joking about eliminating men is funny, having no-men-allowed spaces is progressive, objectifying men is empowering.
            “Stop whining. Learn to take a joke. You’re a man, man up, you can take it. Misandry doesn’t exist, and even if it did, your kind has had your day so it’s time you got a taste of your own medicine, anyway, man.”

            It’s not even very subtle most of the time. But woe be to you who points it out, 10 million straw men and ad hominems are your due. People like their simplistic, black and white worldviews and when you point out that the “good guys” might not be so righteous after all, they get really upset.

          • RegisteredUser says:

            It should be.
            It worries me the most because when it comes to real hardcore, realisstic issues like child care, or whether you as a male have a chance to also raise your kid while trying to keep a job(there is no real legal foundation for “father time” here best I know, though there may have been changes to law since I last checked some years ago. There are/used to be very real ramifications if you as a male dare to want to be with your newborn instead of at work), all of a sudden YOU are the odd one out, and everything is turned on its head and against you.

            All the other things you rightfully point out apply as well, but it would kill me especially when it comes to my (so far I have none, but want some) child(ren) to be treated as a lesser, more vile/terrible/he-can-take-it human being.
            And it is just a recent years development that there has been some slight progress in the whole visitation rights / not per default always giving kids to the mother divorce rulings thing.

            There’s more at stake and to consider than videogaming issues when it comes to the sexes, and its what bothers me when we’re causing a stir over videogames, when the huger social issues underlying all that stuff are so much more tangible, painful, and not at all just restricted to one-sided mistreatment. The problem is that it constantly is portrayed / conveyed as such(mostly, if not completely one-sided).

          • Furiku says:

            Yep, RPS dealings with these particular topics are frankly rather disgusting.

            You should watch these videos, they give a clearer perspective on female/male rights issues and maybe some of her others.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA

            It’s frankly quite funny that one of the most visible, sensible and outspoken persons on “male rights” that is exposing feminism and their values (funny that women who cut off a males penis are almost considered “heroes” in that particular scene and those calling for the extermination of the male population in violent female rebellion sane) is actually a woman since more often than not people wouldn’t even listen otherwise.

          • Furiku says:

            Btw. these are two other videos in regards to feminism, the first has some rather powerful quotes by “feminist leaders” in them, the second is a promotional video in regards to a swedish feminist group.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3JInPCnhyM
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Xel_Ig2Ac

            This is the radical extremity that a lot of them reach and are striving towards, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them actually think that all men should be shot dead and it was always “just a joke” and this is the kind of crap you can expect from authors defining and leading “gender studies” and the like in academics.

            Surely a wholly reasonable standpoint to hold or talk other people down from…

          • Sheng-ji says:

            Sexism against men and sexism against women are two sides of the same coin. For every women’s issue, there is an equal men’s issue. It’s easy to forget sometimes but we can’t eliminate sexism without dealing with both issues.

          • Hanban says:

            “the second is a promotional video in regards to a swedish feminist group.”

            It is, actually, an advert for a play based on the controversial SCUM manifesto. Whatever this play contained, if it was critique of Solanas or praise of Solanas I do not know. From the trailer we learn nothing of what values were being discussed.

            To say that a lot of “them” are reaching for this radical extremity is disingenious at best. If there are people who think that the SCUM manifesto presents a great plan of action, let’s call them what they are. Extremists. Let us not let them hijack the feminist movement.

            Peace.

      • RegisteredUser says:

        “I’d have little-to-no problem with all men being wiped out “

        • Eddy9000 says:

          “cats are better than children”

          I’m wondering what you find so threatening about the consideration of womens rights on this website. No-ones going to come round and cut your dick off in your sleep, we just think that the social impact of gaming and it’s potential to marginalise certain groups of people should be discussed. Here’s the thing, if you think men are disproportionately marginalised by the video games industry then say so, build up a case and present it, draw attention to your cause. Instead you are criticising others for discussing the marginalisation of women in games media. Whether or not you agree or disagree with the idea that women are poorly represented in gaming, what is it that you fear so much from people holding and voicing the opinion that women should be represented in a more empowered and respectful fashion?

          • RegisteredUser says:

            “what is it that you fear so much from people holding and voicing the opinion that women should be represented in a more empowered and respectful fashion?”

            That they are saying women instead of any human being regardless of sex should be respected.

            That’s the irony. Trying to put all weight and focus on “women should be respected and treated just like any other human being” forgets that there is plenty wrong elsewhere(as in: all human beings in the first place) still, too, and pretends, implies, or at least by focus reduction restricts your view that its solely and ONLY women that are ever in trouble or need of help, betterment in condition.
            Which, ironically enough, is in a way shortsighted and sexist.

            The second issue I have is the one I argued to length in this discussion in threads before, that fussing over how you display what in a world made out to be a realm of fantasy, instead of focussing how to treat real people in the real world and removing injustice and prejudice there feels stupid and misplaced.
            People go to power fantasies to have a power fantasy. To then say hey man what you are consuming shows what you identify with as a one-sided power fantasy then is not a surprise or “wrong”, its what the whole thing purposed in the first place. We simulate killing in kill-sims because big gun go mighty boom, things die at my whim and hand and power, not because we’re trying to stimulate our political sensibility.
            And since its virtual, nobody gets hurt.
            But when you are being a dick to people in real life, you are being a dick to people in real life. And I said people, mind.

        • Grape Flavor says:

          Let’s, as a thought experiment, replace that statement with “I’d have little-to-no problem with all women being wiped out”.

          Regardless of context, I think we all know exactly how well that “joke” would go down with the RPS crowd.

    • Leiaz says:

      I’ve felt the RPS articles were pretty balanced (I just registered, but I’ve been reading for a while). I’ts not that sexy armors make gamers sexist pigs, it’s that if the sexy armor is the only option while male characters don’t walk around in sexy underwear, it just feels like you are an intruder in the boys club.

      About “because books are very much “their medium”” (and not talking about 50 shades of grey, which seems to be good only if read by Duke) :
      With a book, a man can be as sexy as you can imagine, whereas with a film … Have you searched the internet for a porn clip, but weren’t able to find any that looked “sexy” ? Because you see the actress and feel “yuck, not even if she was the last on earth” ? Or she looks old enough to be your mom and you aren’t really into that ? Or you never really see her because the camera is stuck on the guy’s ass and face ?

      I can look at pages and pages of clips on youtube-like sites and without finding any sexy guy to look at (except in the gay section). It’s not a matter of preferring imagination to films, it’s just that most of those films are made for a male public.

      It’s the same problem sometime with some games : it’s like if the female public didn’t exist. If the “girlfriend mode” Borderland developer had imagined himself talking in front of a group of both women and men, he would probably have found another word.

      I feel RPS articles present that in a better, more balanced way than some other places.
      It’s not “virtual sexy makes you bad”, it’s “sexy females (out of context) make games feel “for males only”".

      • faint0fhearts3 says:

        Like I honestly don’t have a problem with MMO’s and the type of armor they have. When you look at Tera I’d say it’s the same thing on both sides. The men have perfect bodies, gorgeous abs, clothes that reveal it all, and are flawless. As I said before I actually prefer stuff like this in a lot of fantasy games as opposed to more conservative clothing.

        I love Alyx Vance and Samus as much as I love Bayonetta and Trish from Devil May Cry. Is the industry in general more geared towards men? Yes totally. Do I wish it wasn’t? Of course but I still love games. I can’t get enough of them. I also personally feel so proud to see really great female developers like Jade Raymond in the industry. And when I read that Gears of War, Deus Ex HR, and Uncharted 3 were written by women it felt great. It shows that more and more women are getting into the industry and it’s what we need.

      • RegisteredUser says:

        I refer to http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/09/the-sunday-papers-233/#comment-1082771 for the “only ugly males in porn” and “only made for males” misconception.

        • faint0fhearts3 says:

          Yeah I agree there’s a lot of porn videos which cater to women and they’re quite easy to find. Just go to one of the big and popular ones and it’s filled with a lot of the ones you describe such as X-art.

          Lol now it’s gone to porn hahaha XD

    • Rii says:

      “If its just done artsy enough? Or in literary form? Well then nudity, sexuality, etc pp is fine, acceptable, presentable. But if its crude? If it dares go into socially unacceptable realms, or even just doesn’t present any pretense or excuse other than wanting to show fucking for the sake of fucking? Then its vile, disgusting, offensive, etc..”

      I’d be more comfortable with “and therefore it is of no artistic merit”. Of course the consistent application of that criterion (however interpreted) would decimate the industry.

      The sex doesn’t bother me. The mechanistic approach to human sociality that the game appears to embrace is, on the other hand, deeply offputting. Yet I can’t support Valve’s decision here. As with any entity that finds itself in a position of power, Valve is increasingly becoming a problem to be solved rather than a solution to be embraced

    • 2helix4u says:

      I’d have way more success getting my non-gamer ladyfriends to play a sexy game than a violent one.

      • faint0fhearts3 says:

        Well when you live in a society that thinks games depicting torture as a legitimate form of information gathering is okay but sex and nudity isn’t it really just makes you facepalm lol.

  22. Bork Titflopsen says:

    “It was just a very generic e-mail saying we’d violated and the game was being taken down. It struck us as Valve not wanting to deal with it, not wanting to engage”

    Congratulations, that is exactly what they meant! Furthermore, I’m having trouble to remember any piece of literature, photography or film that had the intent to be erotic from the get-go that is little more than a portrayal of the creators own sexual fantasy.

    Then the article goes on to show examples of exactly why erotic games have such a bad rep. If you want to sell your ‘erotic’ game as something more than just porn, call it something else and don’t insist that your artistic integrity will in some way be damaged by not showing any nudity. Catherine was very erotic, but it was more than just a dude-bro having to hide girlfriend A from girlfriend B so he could bang both and they didn’t need any nudity to do so.

    I’m not against nudity in gaming. I didn’t mind some bloke waving his bare dong around in GTA4 and nudity and sex are quite common in European cinema. However, their only selling point is not: “There is nudity and sex in this so you should watch it because we’re edgy and progressive.”

    • JackShandy says:

      I don’t think they’re pretending to be anything other than a porn game. Their question is why it’s terrible to be a sex game and totally fine to be a violence game.

      Valve are free to do what they want, obviously, but I do think the general attitude towards game sex is a shame.

      • greenbananas says:

        It is. And it’s telling that while gratuitous displays of ultra-violence fail to raise an eyebrow (as does the access of children to such content), when the matter is sex, suddenly everyone’s a critic:

        “I’m not against nudity in gaming. (…) However, their only selling point is not: “There is nudity and sex in this so you should watch it because we’re edgy and progressive.””

        I’m sorry, but you (Bork) are. At least to some of it, and I’d guess you’d be much more lenient if the issue was violence. Because, correct me if I’m wrong, whereas graphical violence in games nowadays is never expected to be justified, nudity (or graphic depictions of sex) is. It needs to be up to some ridiculous standards, the standards of the people who wouldn’t spare a thought about having sex with a hooker (off camera) and then running her over to get their money back. And in the game. :)

        Good to know, though, that when Valve decides to pull violent games because it’s a “good business decision” or because “someone in america might get cross with ‘em”, nobody’s going to be that bothered by it.

        • newprince says:

          This is simply not true. Many reactions from inside and outside the industry to this year’s E3 to the ultra violence on display were (rightfully) negative.

          • faint0fhearts3 says:

            By whom though? The same journalists that were cheering and having orgasms in the middle of demos as soon as a shotgun blast nearly blew a guys head off in close range.

            Those same people went to their hotel rooms and tried to look mature/intelligent by commenting against it. Now this totally isn’t against RPS because I don’t feel that they were that crowd but many are.

            Those games are going to sell millions of copies and get reviews written without any thought to the mass amount of violence.

        • Bork Titflopsen says:

          I never said violence is ok with me (it is, so is nudity or sex) all I said was that they obviously violated the Terms of Agreement and now act like Steam has treated them terribly.

          If their intention is to make a straight-up porn game -something which I apparently failed to notice from reading the article- that’s fine, but I could have told them beforehand that that’s not going to work on Steam even without reading the ToA. If they really are that passionate about their game there are other ways to sell it.

          In the end it’s still a non-issue, they failed to do proper research into what they were getting into and now have to sit on the blisters because of that.

          • greenbananas says:

            It’s not what you said, Bork, it’s the way you said it. It sounds like someone saying something obviously racist but prefacing it with “I’m not a racist, but…”. Or in your case, ” “I’m not against nudity in gaming”, but I’m going to judge it in order to validate my approval of Valve’s decision.” For instance:

            “I’m having trouble to remember any piece of literature, photography or film that had the intent to be erotic from the get-go that is little more than a portrayal of the creators own sexual fantasy.”

            “If you want to sell your ‘erotic’ game as something more than just porn, call it something else and don’t insist that your artistic integrity will in some way be damaged by not showing any nudity.”

            It’s that you pass judgement on sexual material and don’t in violent (again, this is but a guess, I’ve no idea if you do or don’t when it comes to violence, it’s that I’ve seen this bias towards sex or nudity with far more prevalence that I’ve seen the same when the issue is violence) that sounds like hipocrisy.

            The user Rii said it above better than I think I can:

            ““If its just done artsy enough? Or in literary form? Well then nudity, sexuality, etc pp is fine, acceptable, presentable. But if its crude? If it dares go into socially unacceptable realms, or even just doesn’t present any pretense or excuse other than wanting to show fucking for the sake of fucking? Then its vile, disgusting, offensive, etc..”

            I’d be more comfortable with “and therefore it is of no artistic merit”. Of course the consistent application of that criterion (however interpreted) would decimate the industry.”

            Besides, this refusal to touch a subject other than that of Valve doing right by its TOA (again something I’ve noticed by many people discussing the matter at hand) is also enough to raise one’s eyebrow because it, to me, implies an underlying notion of “If I don’t care about the game then I don’t care about the issue” which is also disheartening when the only reason that there are violent games available on the shops is that enough people cared about the issue for it to beat the censors.

          • Bork Titflopsen says:

            If I come across as a hypocrite that’s a mistake on my part, so let me try and word myself better.

            Steam is not a distributor of porn and unless they add an ’18+’ or ‘adult’ section to steam (which I think would be quite popular) they never will. There is a reason porn has it’s own corner on the internet or is otherwise hidden by a toggle-able NSFW-button.

            I’m not saying their game shouldn’t be sold on Steam, but that’s not for me to decide and they could have saved themselves a lot of hurt by taking a couple of minutes to think things trough AND READ THE GODDAMN TOA. Seriously, this isn’t kindergarten and people aren’t going to treat you nicely just because you put effort into something you’re passionate about. Any game that doesn’t make the cut because they failed to meet the agreements as explained in the ToA has brought it onto themselves.

            Let me conclude with this:
            You don’t show up at a fancy dress party without a fancy dress and then get mad at the hosts for kicking you out. You either wait until they change their dress-code or find someplace else to party.

          • JackShandy says:

            The Term they violated was “Your game must not contain offensive material.” Seeing as steam sells games where you can torture people, that sentence is really just there as a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything they want to ignore.

            Which is fine. It’s their service. But I’d be pissed if I’d paid to get on there, only to be blocked based on that vague sentence.

          • greenbananas says:

            Your concluding comparison is about as apt as Valve’s ToA in providing grounds for “despotic” arbitration, at least on the faith that JackShandy’s quote is correct.

            I could ask you why exactly does selling erotic or pornographic material make you a “distributor of porn”, I could ask you why exactly do you think porn has its own corner on the internet (and if you think that it’s maybe because people think the way you do), I could ask you exactly how many times do you think “that’s not for me to decide” is going to be the correct course of action before your own toes start to be stepped on, I could ask you why you come to the conclusion that a game with tits and sex on it is automatically porn, I could take Shandy’s word and ask you exactly what is not offensive about shoving a piece of glass on someone’s mouth and punching it in and what exactly is offensive about fucking, and finally, I could ask you exactly what makes you think you can be as categorical as you are in the bolded section of your post at the same time you’re so uninterested in discussing the principle of their decision, and whether or not you’re the president, an employee or some astroturfer on their behalf and granted the power to do so.

            But I’m pretty clear that you aren’t going to change your mind. Just be wary that your willingness to cede on the face of decisions regarding something you’re not interested in doesn’t come back to bite you when it happens to something you care about.

      • newprince says:

        A better question is why we continue to conflate the two in the first place? Who is really linking sex and violence here, the creators of the content, Valve, or the critics? I would say increasingly the latter.

        The simple fact is I would advise we stop using the argument “Why are games violent, but contain no sexual matter?”. Both sex and violence involve different circumstances, reactions, intentions, motivations, and thousands of shades of nuance. The only people who reliably link violence and sex together have at best a fetish, and at worst a serious psychological affliction. I think we’ve come to the point where we can treat sexual and violent content differently, because… they are different. We can have a legitimate argument about “Is there a space for prurient, sex-focused, sex-positive gaming?” without bringing up violence and violent games.

        People constantly point to America to blame us for this state of affairs. We are so violent, yet we are prudes! Without looking to their own culture with the same critical eye. First of all, it’s not hypocrisy because sex and violence are not the same, as explained above. Second, in general, we cannot underestimate the influence of Doom on PC gaming. There wasn’t an erotic thriller or romance game in the 90s that sold millions and created new PC genres; there was only Doom. People read into this way too much and assume all sorts of things about American culture based on this seminal game and its effect on modern gaming culture: they wish to conflate American gaming culture with American culture as a whole. It’s purposefully avoiding the nuance of American culture, and it entertains me how much people will decry the Daily Mail or Fox News for how they reduce any issue to employing fallacious and dumbed down reasoning, yet any time an American gaming culture issue is brought up, these very same people employ “This is just Team America RAH RAH USA”.

        I’m sure many will dismiss this comment and me as an American apologist, but so be it.

  23. Droopy The Dog says:

    The quote from the farcry 2 article “For a game that heavily relies on the reality of bullet wounds” made me chuckle. That’s only the reality of bullet wounds if you’re Wolverine.

    Compared to the lasting effects of being shot in that game the malaria symptoms are far closer to reality.

  24. SirKicksalot says:

    Far Cry 2′s malaria is not random. You can keep track of the sickness level in the journal. Sickness level influences stamina, health and frequency of the attacks.

  25. Pindie says:

    I think the best horror game possible must be a rougelike.
    The uncertainty and suspense is what really sells a horror game. It’s easy to imagine a horror rougelike in style of DayZ or Receiver where you might be in near-fail state already at the start of game and just not realize it yet or on the contrary – have a great start into the adventure but feel uncertain about when your luck is going to run out and you will die in seconds with your inventory still filled with ammunition.
    Then there are those plays where you are starving for resources and despite objective difficulty being low you fail because you did not get those one shot kills when you really had to or you turned the wrong way and missed the loot.

    If you are playing a horror game where you know in advance the difficulty is balanced by meritorious QA section and you will find the game moderately difficult and resources will suffice then there is a feeling of comfort. You have a guarantee the game will not be too difficult.

  26. InternetBatman says:

    Ugh. That article complaining about the $100 fee was just annoying. My partner and I are living paycheck to paycheck, and a $100 is about a 1/14th of what we have to pay every month. It’s not a huge amount of money, three trips to donate plasma. You can make it in two weeks without a job. Even more importantly, if you can’t make a $100 from off Steam sales, how much can you make on Steam?

    • newprince says:

      Agreed. I think there is entirely too much Free Culture nonsense permeating the gaming culture right now. You cannot tell me that this decision to implement a $100 entry barrier is anything close to a Kickstarter project or trying to incorporate and courting a publisher.

    • RobF says:

      Well, try reading my piece and there’s a very clear example of how it’s not that easy.

      What’s more interesting here though is the narrative we’ve set. Steam implement a fee to remove the spam. This is the intended goal of the fee, it is not to divide projects into worthy/not worthy/steam game/not steam game. It is to remove the spam.

      Yet here we are setting that narrative and not even stopping to think about whether that’s a good or healthy narrative to set. It’s not Valve’s intention, it’s one justified by gamers and one justified by a certain quarter of developers.

      We can establish that from elsewhere, fees do not keep the shit out. We can establish from Steam’s current catalogue that what is a Steam game is really difficult to define. Is Super Crate Box a Steam game? Is Arcadia a Steam Game? Is Bad Rats a Steam Game, Is Lone Survivor a Steam game? What is and what isn’t a Steam game changes over time. There was a time Puppy Games releases weren’t considered Steam games, they are now. There was a time Mode 7 games weren’t considered Steam games, they are now. So we’re left with some folks trying to tell everyone else what THEIR idea of a Steam game is. What should and should not be allowed on Steam. When what is a Steam game is ultimately whatever Valve choose to make a Steam game. This is why Greenlight is set up in such a way that Valve still get to choose what is/isn’t a Steam game and amount of money sitting in someone’s bank account RIGHT NOW is not anything that plays a part in that decision, yet we’re making it just that.

      And that makes things shitter for everyone because I don’t want my culture dictated to me by the loudest voices and I don’t want it dictated to me by financial position of the creator. Never mind the $, think about the way this debate has been framed and how quickly people leap to “if you can’t afford it, do this” and then ask why. When Valve weren’t intending to frame the issue this way, why are people leaping in and defining what can and cannot be considered acceptable culture and what is and what isn’t an acceptable way to judge serious/non serious.

      It’s fairly weapons grade bullshit.

      • InternetBatman says:

        How is a democratic vote system “Culture being determined by the loudest voices?” Isn’t that closer to culture being determined by everyone?

        Also, if a game can’t make $100 of sales from other far less curated sources, like Desura, how is it supposed to make a money on Steam?

        It’s not like I’m unsympathetic to your position. My fiancee gets very sick sometimes and my work is sporadic at best. We are currently relying on my parents and a genial landlord to get by. But I just don’t think $100 is that much money.

        • RobF says:

          The system is intended to be just that, yes. That’s what Greenlight is kind of intended to do albeit with Valve curating still.

          But that’s a different thing from what I’m talking about.

          The $100 is an anti-spam measure. So why aren’t we talking about other anti-spam measures? Why aren’t we talking about better or alternative ways to remove the spam?

          Because we’re lumping in games we don’t want to see with the spam here. It’s supposed to weed out people making joke entries, it’s supposed to weed out people asking for Battlefield 3. It’s not supposed to weed out actual real games at all. So if it is doing that, in any capacity, you don’t say “well, you just make the fee” you say “well, how can we fix that and bring these guys/girls/whatever into the system and still combat the spam”. So Greenlight can work. So it can be that democratic system. How else do you suppose it could ever work for concept up submissions if it isn’t allowed to blossom into that democratic system that Valve set it up to be? Fix the system, not shout at the little guy. Because that’s what Valve want to do! So let’s help them.

          Every mention of serious/not serious developers divides people up into worthy/not worthy. Every mention of “Steam Quality” games pushes the agenda that what they believe is Steam quality should be there and the rest has no place, unless of course they can raise the $100 but we’d rather they didn’t, but Steam Quality is a bullshit metric, one that you can’t hope to attain because what exactly *is* Steam Quality. Games previously not Steam Quality are now Steam Quality. Cue different answers from different people but those who shout the loudest and those who can afford $100 easily are deciding that one way, one way we can discern this is the kind of game made by someone who’d have $100 to submit to Greenlight.

          And then there’s all sorts of talk about how if you didn’t have it, you couldn’t do this or that. I know people who didn’t have that and managed to get their work onto Steam but hey, that’s not the point because they’re now automatically not serious or not worthwhile because someone else said so.

          And on a human decency level, when people say “I don’t have $100″, you don’t fucking shout at them to go and get it! You don’t tell them that if they’re serious they should go and get it. You listen to what they’re saying and you bloody well nod your head and empathise with them, even if it’s a scenario you can’t conceive. But that’s not happening. People are (like me) telling their stories as to why that might not be possible and then you run up against “I don’t believe it’s ever not possible, of course you can do it” and it’s like FUCKS SAKE. LISTEN TO MY MOUTH MOVE. READ MY WORDS. But nah. Yeah, I could sell my kidney down the fucking docks or something but is that really how we want our culture to be valued? Do we want good designers making games or do we want them mowing bloody lawns? We should be aiding the former, not the latter.

          But that’s ok, because it’s still pushing the same worthy/not worthy/have/have not narrative. Over an anti-spam measure. Over a decision made to cull the spam quickly. Not one made to remove any real games. And to boot, it’s hurting a lot of my friends too because the past few days, they’ve sustained so much abuse, so many people telling them to just pull their bootstraps up and get on, so many people deciding that suddenly, when they were worthy of praise the day before, now they’re pathetic because they can’t even raise $100 when of course they could if they just did INSERT ADVICE HERE WHICH HAS NO TRUCK FOR THEIR SITUATIONS. It’s hurting people, genuinely hurting them and causing good designers and good people to be really upset and to feel under attack. Just because they’re unable to prove they’re not spammers by magically plucking $100 out of their arseholes.

          So if it does result in removing real games from the pool, yes, that is suddenly a very real problem. And it is. And the shouts around are where very vocal people are trying to decide what is worthy and what isn’t and some others are unintentionally stumbling into that talk because that’s how the talk is headed, that’s the way the discussion is shaped. And that too is a problem.

          And I’ve said this every single time. I’ve seen numbers where all the other stores, all lined up, would barely cover the $100 fee (if at all) of games that have sold 3 or 4 figures on Steam. Because people buy games on Steam. And for super bonus points, when they buy them, the dev is guaranteed of seeing the money. Because if I raised $100 on a certain often named store, I wouldn’t see that $100 until I’d earned $400 more. So then it becomes an even more unobtainable number for some people.

          So it is becoming about people demanding to have the final say in what culture is worthwhile and what isn’t, in many cases just without really considering what demanding people get $100 means.

          That’s without going into the idea being propagated that making games somehow isn’t a real job and you should go and get a different one instead to appease the $100 gods and then consider making games.

          All the while whilst EA, Activision and everyone else, who I think you’d be hard pressed to say aren’t serious developers, don’t have to pay the fee. Which is quite queer, don’t you think? Why would I be classed as not serious for not having $100 but EA would be classed as serious because they’d fucking laugh at anyone who told them they’d have to front $100 to go on a submissions queue decided by the public, promptly followed by telling whoever thought of the idea to go and fuck themselves. But those other devs, right? Fuck those guys, go sell blood or mow lawns!

          That’s just not OK. Please don’t help in making that somehow normal, man!

          And let’s talk about better ways to combat the spam than stamping our feet and saying YOU SHOULD DO THIS because you can shout all you want, anyone can shout all they want it won’t make someone’s circumstances change for the better. But it will fucking hurt them and make them feel unwanted, small and/or just plain rotten. And that’s helping fuck all and nothing to be proud of.

          The past few days on the internet, over $100 fee, I’ve never known so many of my friends, some are critically acclaimed designers, be so wounded by words, many unintentional but many entirely deliberate. That’s just not on. We need to stop talking like everything is this simple because it’s not and it’s hurting people and it’s not getting us any closer to improving Greenlight proper.

          • InternetBatman says:

            Greenlight is not the only submission system for Steam, just a second chance for games with established communities. The part that’s up, the non-concept part, is not a discovery tool anyways, so it won’t solve the problems that unknowns have. And Indies don’t have to pay the Greenlight fee, they can go through the same channels that publishers do, and many of them do so and are successful. To portray it as a separate class system for indies is a grave mischaracterization. Greenlight is an effort to make that system more inclusive that many similar stores don’t have.

            What is a better way to remove spam? I’m reminded of Something Awful, which tried a ton of different ways to get rid of trolls before settling on a $10 fee. It sucked, but it worked quickly. The same seems to have been true of Greenlight. I’m not seeing Warcraft III anymore.

            I disagree with you on the notion of “Steam Quality.” You seem to want a store with minimal curating, but one of the reasons Steam is so successful at selling games is the front page. If every non-plagiarized game was put on Steam, the front page would be meaningless.
            I’m not shouting at anyone, let alone the little guy. But seriously, $100 is not that much. And I’m sorry, but I’ve been in a very similar situation. My partner and I were both unemployed at the time. My partner had a condition which makes you shit blood until your anemic; then you’re killed off by disease. The only thing that helped at all was marijuana, and that’s definitely not covered by insurance. There were two months when both our accounts hit bottom simultaneously, and yes I had to sell plasma and eat bulk rice and beans. I’m not a Republican. I’m not some asshole Libertarian that thinks poor people should starve or die from trauma and I don’t believe that capital should be as concentrated in the hands of the rich as it is. But I fail to believe that $100 is the insurmountable obstacle you make it out to be. Maybe a $10 or $20 fee would be better. If you submit your game to Steam, get rejected, can’t sell $100 from your game on any other site, and can’t get a kickstarter up to $135, it probably lacks quality or market appeal, and Greenlight very probably won’t make a difference anyways.
            You seem to argue that there is no objective standard of quality, and that we as a society should just support people who create, regardless of what they create or whether or not people find it valuable enough to buy.

            Game developing is a real job. But if a job is not paying the bills, then people should be looking for a different job and doing their labor of love in their spare time. The Mitsodas had a successful six figure Kickstarter for a project that they made while working on Guild Wars 2. My partner has had several small publications and we’re writing a book together in our spare time. Having a day job does not kill your creativity, it stimulates it by providing changing experiences for you to adapt to. The idea that an artist should create in seclusion, and that creation, regardless of its nature should be rewarded is ultimately toxic to society.

            As a rule I don’t criticize people directly online, just their arguments, but one part of your argument really irked me. You present mowing lawns as beneath the dignity of creators. That’s classist and entitled; incredibly so. As someone who does occasionally mow lawns to get by, how dare you demean the dignity of labor because it doesn’t match your conception of what work should look like. How dare you complain about a lack of money while turning your nose down at certain types of work. I’m a college educated person, and I’m getting my Masters now, but I’ve been a fry cook, a lawnworker, and a warehouse worker since I’ve graduated. Failing all else, I tilled out an area the size of our apartment with a mattock to make a vegetable garden. Each job has made me a better person, and each job has taught me something. For you to take the stance that game development is intrinsically better than any other job is incredibly fallacious, and when juxtaposed to the argument that a $100 fee on a second-chance system increases the disparity between the haves and the have-nots shows a total lack of introspection.

          • RobF says:

            I’m not saying it’s beneath their dignity in the slightest, man. I’m saying it’s better for people who are good at making games and who will make the world of videogames a better place for having their creations to be making games not mowing lawns because mowing lawns takes up time they could be making games.

            It is in no way a judgement on what mowing lawns entails or social status of people who mow lawns. Not at all. Please don’t take it that way. I’ve sorted through peoples shitty waste for a job before now. Mowing lawns sounds great to me!

            Wouldn’t you rather be in the position to do things you wanted to do rather than things you don’t? It’s about making people’s lives better not just accepting the status quo and saying “get on with it”. We can do this! Not just for games but obviously that’s something I care dearly about and we’re on a games blog talking about making games.

            Selling plasma or body parts or doing something else doesn’t solve underlying problems. I want solutions to that, not to the immediate need for $100. Every obstacle we can knock down, every step we can make easier for people to achieve things and to make things and to live a more comfortable life, that’s what I want. I’m not shitting on anyone’s position, job or anything like that. The opposite. I want to improve things.

            And asking a big corporation who by their own admittance don’t need the money, don’t even want the money, to lower or remove a $100 fee is one way we can do that, yeah?

            “Greenlight is not the only submission system for Steam, just a second chance for games with established communities”

            It isn’t. It’s the only route onto Steam now unless you’re under the wing of a big publisher. There is no other route. The old way is over. It’s Greenlight or nothing. It’s not a second chance. It’s THE chance.

            That’s it. Greenlight is how you get on Steam.

    • FhnuZoag says:

      The median net worth of a black american single woman is *FIVE DOLLARS*. You might say that you could make it in X time with a job, except that people may well be already doing those jobs, donating blood, etc etc and have to spend that money on food/healthcare/rent and other things. At the end of the day this sort of flat fee is massively unfair on poorer people, while just like you say for the rich it’s barely anything and this wouldn’t stop them from spamming Greenlight with crud at all. Moreover, this thing doesn’t guarantee them access to steam, so comparing $100 to potential sales boost from steam is meaningless.

      You might say, ‘ah but there might be significant financial costs in game creation already’, in which case, my response would be: yes, but that’s a *problem* we should be trying to fix, instead of something we should add to.

      There are so many better things Valve could have done with this.

      • Dilapinated says:

        I wish I could like your post, then mount it on my wall. Great summary.

      • slyscorpion says:

        Where are you getting your data from concerning the average median net worth of a single American black woman? Also, if someone has that little net worth and aren’t disabled in some way that prevents them from performing some sort of function that resembles work they can take steps to improve their net worth instead of expecting it to improve itself.

        • Droopy The Dog says:

          Pedantry alert, average or median, they’re seperate things although they can sometimes have the same value.

          Also, it’s quite possible to earn above minimum wage and not increase your net worth at all, just incase you’re not sure how net worth works.

        • FhnuZoag says:

          Here:
          http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/study-finds-median-wealth-for-single-black-women-at-5-236905/

          It’s hilariously presumptive for you to sit here in happy comfort and declare these people could easily not be in that situation. Do you honestly think they want to be in that situation? Surprisingly, it is not, in fact, easy for poor people to become rich.

          • JackShandy says:

            I sit here, in happy, presumptive comfort, and declare that no-one in that situation can be a game developer who wants to put their games on steam.

          • slyscorpion says:

            I live in a country where the people have *negative* net worth and they still manage to survive and would be able to somehow put up 320 PLN ($100) for Steam’s Greenlight entry fee…unless Steam decided to charge European developers in Euro because of their magical conversion rate that has nothing to do with the actual conversion rate of $ to Euro, but let’s not start THAT fiasco :D

            And there is no “happy comfort” here, trust me. I live from paycheck to paycheck and if I wanted to have my game on Steam, I am sure I could come up with the money.

      • JackShandy says:

        If you have enough money for a computer and access to the internet – not just at your local library, but the permanent computer access you need to be able to make a game – you can afford 100$.

        • FhnuZoag says:

          If you haven’t walked in these people’s shoes, you have no right to tell them what they can afford.

          And even if they can afford it, they shouldn’t have to.

          • JackShandy says:

            What? This is a thread where rich people talk about luxury items. You started talking about people who aren’t rich, I joined in, and now you’re shutting me down with “You’re rich.”

            The 100$ fee is the least of a long line of fees that a game developer must pay to be able to create games. By connecting the 100$ greenlight fee with the 5$ median wealth, you’re suggesting a situation where someone with a 5$ median wealth has the hardware and software necessary for game development, and is trying to make money from games.

            It’s not just that it’s unlikely, it’s a terrible idea. Independent game development is a very unstable, low-paying job, and I don’t recommend it for anyone who needs money badly.

          • RobF says:

            But it is perfectly likely and perfectly possible and it perfectly does happen.

            So now what?

          • JackShandy says:

            If you can provide some examples then I’ll happily retract my statement.

          • RobF says:

            Look, man. I already know I’m not going to change your mind. I could parade 100 poor developers in front of you right now and you’d still hold firm and steady so I’ve said my piece, I’ve offered up as much as I’m willing right now. I’m especially not going to do that because it’s up to those people to come forward, not for me to write a list of them in a comments section. And that’s not me being evasive, that’s me respecting these people. They exist. I speak to some every single day. I’m not hallucinating and I have nothing to gain from lying about this. I’m not here to win an internet argument.

            You can either believe or hold steady and firm in your own beliefs, but it won’t change their situation one jot and it won’t make the words of people insisting “of course they can” any less hurtful.

            So all I’m going to ask is that rather than stridently insisting these things, consider that maybe your words, your assumptions might possibly not tally with reality and if there’s even a slender chance that they don’t, that you’re more considerate with your words and more considerate in your assumptions. Because maybe if you can do that, less people would be feeling hurt by all this right now, y’know?

            (and also see my post above as to why turning this into have $100/don’t have $100 is terrible)

          • JackShandy says:

            I respect you, man, but I don’t see any reason to launch into that tirade rather than linking some indie games. I think it shows a bit of discourtesy to automatically assume that I will blindly ignore all evidence before any has been presented.

            The words I have said tally with the reality I’ve seen. I’ve spoken with one of the guys behind Vessel, and surviving the creation of that game required all their savings. I can’t imagine how someone who started at the bottom line would be able to survive through a year or more where they’re not earning a solid income because they’re making an indie game.

            I’m willing to admit that I’m wrong, but telling me that I won’t admit I’m wrong under any circumstances isn’t going to change my mind.

          • RobF says:

            When you start with assuming something is “impossible”, it sort of lays down how things continue, you know? I apologise if it comes across as rubbishing you but I’ve had people ask me this for 3 or 4 days running and then still refuse to accept anything, so I’m tired of it all.I’m tired of trying to explain that poor people exist and that it doesn’t mean they can’t make games or have games on Steam.

            I’m honestly sorry if I bite a bit harder than I normally would because of this.

            I’ve posted my story, it’s in the RPS Sunday Papers that you’re looking at right now as to how you can have the computer, you can have the software and then one day, everything changes in your life and it suddenly isn’t so clear cut. I’m lucky that my situation improved. Very lucky if you read the story. Dys4ia was entered into the IGF with someone else’s money. Those are two that are public, I can’t make the rest public, y’know? That’s not my job. And I certainly don’t want to see what I saw on Saturday on the Twitters repeated with a parade of “tell me about your poorness, poor people, how do you live being poor, poor people?” followed by “well, you can still find the money!” because that was gross. I’m not even suggesting this is your intent but I want people to feel safe, and maybe you won’t (I don’t think for a second you would) but it’s already been made clear that someone else will. I don’t want to repeat that.

            But let’s just run with the Vessel thing a second. Wouldn’t it be much better if we didn’t add to that load when we didn’t need to? If they’re already running dry, if they’ve already spent everything, if they’re already in debt, shouldn’t we be finding ways to mitigate that a tad rather than compound it? Wouldn’t that just be the better thing to do?

            Especially when this isn’t a measure to divide worthwhile/not worthwhile games and have them not in Greenlight, it’s a spam reduction method and there are better ways of dealing with that in the long term that don’t involve money being paid.

          • JackShandy says:

            I appreciate where you’re coming from and I apologize for blundering into a situation I didn’t understand.

            Yeah, you’re right, Steam should figure out a better way to weed out spam.

      • InternetBatman says:

        And what’s the median net worth of a Black woman who has the skills to make a game that would sell on Steam? The average game developer is highly educated and has more than one marketable skill. A large part, but certainly not all, of what lowers the median is stuff that takes place before one would ever have the skills to make a game that would sell on Steam.

  27. MadMatty says:

    To summarise the Brad Wardell sexual harrasement lawsuit, to me it seems he is a dickhead- which is not always much of a problem- if youre a female, you simply tell them that you do not like this form of conversation, and it makes you feel bad- and that would be enough for any straight up Dickhead- no problem there, seriously.

    Problem is:

    Brad Wardell is also an Arsehole and that makes him a Bad Person.

    If you´re wondering about the terminology used, i´d advise you to see “Team America: World Police” – the uncensored version has 1 extra, super naughty joke.

  28. newprince says:

    Am I the only one who noticed Tim Cain said that he prefers games that try to be fun, not beautiful? OMG he said game and fun in the same sentence! Wondering how the “Games should not be fun” crowd will react to that.

    • Stellar Duck says:

      There is such a crowd?

      • newprince says:

        Indeed. In the past, when I have said that my number one consideration of what makes a “good game” to me is simply how fun it is, I have been derided. It is usually asserted that I have no desire to be challenged, and that people who want to have fun in games are the problem with gaming.

        • FhnuZoag says:

          You’re mischaracterising such people. We don’t resent the existence of fun games and people who like them, we simply believe there should be room in the medium for ‘unfun’ games, and recognition of people who actually prefer games that are not intended to be ‘fun’. Both fun, and unfun games can be ‘good’.

        • noclip says:

          Why should games be limited to just one kind of intellectual stimulation? Imagine a world where all novels are mysteries, or where all plays are tragedies, or where all music is uplifting.

        • Stellar Duck says:

          Fun is a pretty useless concept though. What’s fun to me might be boring to someone else.

          I doubt many people here on RPS are against fun. I know I’m not. But I have my definition of fun and others have theirs. So saying that a game should be fun above all else is basically saying nothing concrete or useful. I find Far Cry 2 to be immense fun but you’ll meet plenty of people who thinks it’s quite terrible. And I can certainly understand that, from their definition of fun. If we want to discus Far Cry 2 we have to discuss it in terms of design. Discussing it’s fun factor (dare I say tilt?) leads to nowhere interesting.

        • Poesnacks says:

          The problem I have with praising games for being fun is that “fun” is a pretty vacuous word that means nothing/means something completely different to everyone (e.g. I can describe both Animal Crossing and Ikaruga as fun, but what does that actually say about those games? A person who plays both games on my suggestion would find 2 wildly different experiences).

  29. MadMatty says:

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5101158/The%20Set%20-%20Brainblaster.zip heres the demo that i made late 2010, its not that hard DnB/Neurofunk i´ve been making recently, but a fairly smooth mix of minimal, through the tempos/rhytm traditions. It´s all dance music.

    I´ve been posting here for a while, and just let you know of some alternative Sunday music-

    Sunday a day of rest? – I think not

    Office Chair Jockeys need to move extra about

  30. Greggh says:

    About “Seduce Me”:

    “For Bellard, this is just another teething problem for an industry that is perhaps less mature than those who work within it would believe.”

    Unfortunately, the average gamer (globally speaking) is slightly immature in terms of sexuality and just plain freedom of expression – empirically speaking, of course, this isn’t something I can back with cold, hard !!SCIENCE!!
    That coupled with the fact that society is conservative in general leads to this sort of scenario, methinks. They started pushing a boundary, there is bound to be repercussions and some sort of strife as different groups of people make their stand.

    Also, comparing the indie gaming scene to the movie industry seems fallacious (at best). While both industries share similarities, being providers of medium to art and all that (games are a form of art, aren’t they?), the interactive nature of games creates, IMHO, a different sort of attachment than the pure emotional attachment you get from movies that escape the commonplace and that defy the status quo. If a game does that, I believe it makes it’s players face themselves, their peers and community in ways that they may not be prepared to confront psychologically and emotionally – leading to flame wars, ragequitting, passive-agressive trolling, extcera, extchera, et cetera.

    TL;DR – The whole thing that happened to “Seduce Me” can be explained by Freud and political science. :P

  31. Cryo says:

    Internet is completely full of porn. Why exactly does it need to be on Steam too? Some people can’t get it up if it’s not delivered to them through Steam launcher?

    • SonicTitan says:

      It’s not an issue of whether or not Seduce Me has any redeeming social value, i.e. “it’s pornography”, but why the same material is accepted in other mediums (50 Shades of Grey?) and not video games. What’s more telling than Valve removing it is the community reactions to it. It puts me in the mind of the minor outcry over The Path, or as the article pointed out, the Hot Coffee mod. It’s not about “pornography” versus “art”. It’s about sex. And blaming American cultural values for the whole thing is casting far too narrow a net. I personally believe it has more to do with interactivity.

      I wrote pretty extensively about it here: http://angrywordgames.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/rape-video-games-and-the-lost-power-of-image/ through the lens of the outcry over the Tomb Raider trailer.

      (If this is seen as a self-promotion and sort of uncouth, or isn’t allowed, let me know and I’ll remove the link)

  32. vodka and cookies says:

    Brad Wardell Republican blowhard turns out to be sexist creep surprise, surprise.

    I’m genuinely surprised his many antics haven’t gotten him in more trouble, I remember several years ago when skinning software for WinXP was all the rage, Brad started filling up wincustomize with his personal rants of how Bush is the greatest, Iraq was a super idea, how liberals will never amount to anything and so on.

    From the moment on I vowed never to touch anything by Stardock, other noticed these rants stopped appearing on the site as his views obviously began to affect sales. He is donater to the Tea Party and was a neo-con before that.

    There’s plenty more out there showing how a colossal ass-hole he is, the something awful thread on him has lots of stuff including the gem where he parks in handicap spots at Stardock with photos & testimonials from unfortunates who have worked with him.

  33. mrbeman says:

    For once I’m not tempted to argue about sexism!

    Because you linked to Jean Grae, who was been one of my most favoritest rappers for a long time, and I had no idea she had a new album coming up, holy shit.

    EVERYONE SHOULD LISTEN TO JEAN GRAE AND BUY HER MUSIC. That is all.

  34. zeekthegeek says:

    Why such a kerfuffle over the Greenlight fee? It’s not like you NEED to be on Greenlight – your game won’t be any better for it and it won’t make or break your project. You can still just mail Valve through their standard, free submission process. You can still use Desura or any other number of methods to get the word out there – join an Indie Fort and get your game on GamersGate for free and get included in cool little sales that bring in large numbers of buyers. If you can’t get the $100? Don’t worry about it, keep making your game and get it out there any way possible.

    • RobF says:

      The submissions process is closed. Either you are EA and Activison and THQ and you place your game on Steam as you normally would or you go through Greenlight.

      It is now the only route onto Steam for anyone who isn’t under the wing of a big publisher.

  35. InternetBatman says:

    Wouldn’t you rather be in the position to do things you wanted to do rather than things you don’t? It’s about making people’s lives better not just accepting the status quo and saying “get on with it”.

    Yes I would rather be in that position, and I’m working to get there, but you don’t always get to have a job you love. There’s a large series of tradeoffs that everyone has to make, and that’s normally one of them. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing, it’s a way of channeling people’s abilities into positions of social utility.

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