League Of Legends Deploys Community Honor System

By Nathan Grayson on October 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 am.

Potential honor categories include Best Taste In Funny Cat Pictures, Most Knowledgeable About Stacking Knives On Dinner Plates, Swordest, and Obviously Young Enough To Have Never Actually Read A Book With Pages Made Of Paper.

League of Legends‘ community – while easily one of the most populous in the MOBAsphere – isn’t exactly the most popular. People say mean things, feelings get hurt, and the winners are the ones that come away with the least emotional scarring. But, given LoL’s competitive nature, it’s not exactly something that can be avoided under a safety blanket of solo play. For years, then, it’s been Riot’s unsolvable enigma – the towering door of twisted rage and anonymity that keeps far too many potential players outside a land of creep-crushing bliss. Now, though, it’s taking a new approach: positive reinforcement. Make a stranger’s day, and hopefully they’ll give you Honor points. Problem is, for now, that’s kind of the whole system.

First off, here’s Riot’s official introduction to the new system:

“Through Honor, you can acknowledge summoners who helped make your game awesome by clicking on the ‘thumbs up’ icon next to the summoner name at the post-game lobby. You’ll also receive Honor of your own when you impress your fellow summoners with your sportsmanship in the game.”

At the moment, Honor pools in four categories: helpful (sharing useful knowledge, etc), friendly, teamwork, and honorable opponent. Your total for each shows up in your profile. If nothing else, it sounds like the foundation of a solid system. For now, though, that’s all it really is. Riot explained:

“Your total Honor represents your ongoing commitment to making games better for your fellow summoners. It’s not a currency, and you can’t spend it – we’re going to experiment with some potential bonuses to being an honorable summoner in the future.”

So for now, it’s just a number. The next step, then, is figuring out how exactly to make it significant without skewing LoL’s balance or opening it up to abuse. In the meantime, Riot’s at least put a number of counter-measures in place to make sure players don’t exploit the system. For instance, Honor can only be exchanged in matchmade games, so you can’t simply arrange a game for the sole purpose of patting each other on the back. Meanwhile, being awarded Honor by players you’ve only just met will up your total significantly more than anything else, so hopefully that’ll cut down on anonymity-born jerkitude.

Players also have a finite total of Honor to hand out, and Riot noted that “the average, responsible user will probably never run out of Honor. However, players who spam or trade Honor will soon find themselves with nothing left in the bank to award.”

So it’s a fairly well thought-out start, but for now, it doesn’t really have any teeth. Honestly, though, it’s probably best for Riot to root out further potential exploits before raising the stakes. It’ll be interesting, then, to see what happens when LoL’s Honor system fires off its punchline.

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93 Comments »

  1. zeroskill says:

    So basically, exactly like commendations in Dota 2… unsurprisingly. Very creative.

    • maximiZe says:

      Exactly. The Dota 2 system is subject to the same criticism, being just a number in your profile and not integrated into any other subsystems of the game. Now Riot is, once again, making a big thing out of a feature ripped off from a game in Beta, which to me is the pathetic part. Looking at the competitors is fine in my book, but boasting about a (pretty lackluster,) stolen feature implying to have put lots of thought behind it feels wrong. The players are going to eat it up anyway though and give Riot’s respective forum post hundreds of useless green thumbs, so yeah. We’ll see how long this works out.

      • zeroskill says:

        The thing that worries me here though is that Riot doesn’t seem to be able to come up with creative solutions to problems. This is a thing that will hurt them in the long run.

        While not everything that Valve comes up with is always spot on, like Greenlight and other smaller systems they develop, they have shown they can come up with solutions to problems and are willing to make those things work by listening to community feedback.

        I play both games on a regular basis, though I tend to play more Dominion in LoL nowadays, and Dota 2 more for the classic map, I see myself shifting more and more towards Dota 2, just because of the fact that I believe Valve are more capable of coming up with creative solutions, and the way they interact with the community in a mature way, and the open nature of the game (console access and future mod-tools).

        • glocks4interns says:

          Are you guys really criticizing Riot for a lack of creativity on LoL while praising DOTA2?

          That seems… misguided.

          It is a good feature in DOTA2 and I don’t see how Riot taking that good feature and adding/expanding it in LOL is a bad thing.

          • rockman29 says:

            It’s not that good a feature in Dota 2. It is very easily abused. That’s probably why it’s looked at as copying and not creative, because it’s just as poor as the system in Dota 2. In Dota 2 it was just a poor system.

            Both need fixing at the end of the day.

    • Eamo says:

      … or karma on slashdot, or voting on reddit, or liking on facebook, or wuffie in Down and out in the Magic Kingdom or any one of a thousand other systems that allow you to give people a + or a – based on whether they are doing things right or wrong. Such reputation systems have been in use on web forums and the like for years now, bringing them into games hardly constitutes an innovation whoever does it first.

      • crizzyeyes says:

        Except they’re acting like it’s a substantial feature. And it is actually copied from Dota 2, down to the four categories for commendations/honor being the exact same.

        • glocks4interns says:

          How should they announce this as a small feature? Just a line in the patch notes?

      • The Random One says:

        Also Duffle *was* currency in Down and Out. In fact, it had replaced currency in its post-scarcity world. Get your obscure sci-fi references right!

    • Ringwraith says:

      Although they’re not exactly going to say “we totally just stole this idea from something else”.
      It’s a big thing, regardless of whether or not it was “ripped off”.
      Heck, DotA 2′s spectator mode with in-built casting support was done four years before in Command & Conquer 3, (no, I don’t know why either).

    • Yuri says:

      Because DOTA2 was totally the first and only game to introduce an honor/karma based system for users, am i right?

      Please don’t make me laugh. These days, you can’t introduce a single feature in a MOBA game without someone, somewhere saying “derp, they ripped that off from DOTA2″.

  2. Wodge says:

    I played one game of LoL, was called more names than my entire time in the education system.

    There is no hono(u)r there.

    • Luringen says:

      I was a bit more lucky. I ended up in a match with three other players who immediatly said it was their first time, so I did the same. The fifth player shut up. Later in the game he started writing insults about how bad we (mostly me) were. In caps lock. First and last LoL match, even though it was better than a lot of others stories.

    • Zanchito says:

      I had the honour of having a teammate make up suppoused private messages from me saying how I was making the team lose on purpose. Shame, I enjoy the game but I deal with enough idiots in real life as it is.

    • Discopanda says:

      Played with friends a few times. Saw said friends at different times ridicule the other team for losing (they were smurfing, of course), and then belittle me for having no idea how to play or what any of the lingo meant. Did not play again!

    • Whallaah says:

      Whaha, then you’re lucky.

      I first started with the Original DOTA all stars. What a shock… People rage-quiting, whining, insulting and being epic douches. When I played at School, people in lan-games were more cautious insulting each other, but you could instantly see who of the people would otherwise abandoned the game.

      Another problem I have is, the game it self. I can not motivate my self for another 30 minutes of play if the first 10 have given my opponents such a substantial advantage that we’re doomed.

      • Yuri says:

        LoL’s snowball effect is a bit weaker than those in DOTA.
        You can gain a big advantage in LoL by winning early game, but you always have a chance to play defensive, ward around your side of the map and wait for opportunities. Until then, you just farm up.

        I can’t count how many matches my team was losing with even up to 10-20 kills difference, only for it all to change once we managed to farm up and get into teamfights.

    • Ritashi says:

      There are a couple of vital points to remember in all of this. First, while it is possible to get unlucky in some early games and run up against complete jerks, keep in mind that they are playing their first couple games on that account as well, and therefore no matter how terrible they are they have not had a chance to get banned. Trolling on smurfs isn’t a terribly common thing, but it definitely does happen. In my experience most of my games go fairly smoothly, win or lose. Sure, some people are jerks, and if it was particularly bad (or I’m feeling frustrated for some reason) and they were in fact doing things that I would vote Punish for then I report them. But most games go pretty smoothly, maybe one or two insults as the game closes or some “bg” calls at the end but certainly nothing that takes away from the experience much at all.

      Second, there’s a common idea that in games like LoL once you get behind in the first 10 minutes you’re just doomed to lose, but still have to play for 30 more minutes. This is, quite simply, not true. It looks like it is, especially if you’re inexperienced, because you can look around and see that by every metric you are losing (fun fact, team k/d ratio is the least important metric for determining who’s winning) and you extrapolate from that that you will continue to lose. However, this is incorrect. For one thing, performance in lane does not indicate your potential in team fights; I have seen many games where the side that was dominated in all 3 lanes won teamfights handily, simply because teamfights require a skillset that has only slight overlap with the laning skillset. It’s also worth noting that the amount of gold and xp your opponents earn for killing you decreases dramatically with your death streak, while the gain you will get increases dramatically with their kill streak. You will also earn significantly more xp for kills or assists on champions who are higher level than you. Your team comp may be much better than theirs for late or mid game; many times I’ve seen a team bring a well known counter-pick in each lane, only to find that they didn’t have the roles they needed when late game rolled around. Remember that a gold differential becomes less important over time; around 60 minutes everyone but supports and maybe tanks should be at a full build, regardless of how well or poorly you’re doing. And most of all remember that in LoL, overconfidence is the fastest way to lose. Watch some pro games some time, and you’ll find some absolutely incredible comebacks. I’ve even seen the announcers write off a game as over, only to have the losing team come back and win it. Moscow 5, in one of their first major LAN event losses, got cocky and failed to siege properly, allowing their opponents time to catch up and win a game that had seemed over from 20 minutes in.

      Basically, never write off a game till it’s over. Trust me, unless you’re a pro you simply do not have enough knowledge of the game to really be able to accurately assess whether you can still win or not – and the answer is usually yes.

      • Ringwraith says:

        If anything, the whole “lose early game, lose match” thing is more set in stone in profession-level play, where the winning team is less likely to slip up and give the other team a chance to get back in the running.
        I’ve had an entire team agree to surrender at about 25 minutes because the massive lead we gained at the start had evened out and they gave up. I don’t know why it happened. We hadn’t even had a proper teamfight by that stage, which is the real test.

      • Bensam123 says:

        I disagree, keep in mind not because all of what you said is impossible, rather the motivation and drive changes.

        From my personal experience playing LoL what happens when another team gains an advantage is a total and complete collapse of moral on the team. I’ve been bitched at more by MY TEAM in one match then all of the enemy teams combined. It’s not rational either. People just simply GIVE UP.

        Then they divert all their energy they could’ve otherwise spent winning bitching at their teamates and playing the blame game, simply looking for moments where they can say ‘I told you so.’. It’s one of the most excruciatingly painful experiences in my entire time being a gamer. Because the game depends so heavily on teamwork, if one or two people give up that’s the end and there generally isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. All it takes is one person to snowball too.

        This doesn’t even count matches where you have a decent chance of winning, but your team just rather surrender exactly at the 20 minute mark and if you don’t agree they either AFK at the base or spend the rest of it doing said bitching and telling you how pointless it is continuing on with the game. It’s an elitist, self-absorbed, self-defeating attitude that renders the game almost unplayable for me. The community has spent so much time bitching and being bitched at they’ve literally turned into glass cannons who break down mentally the moment things start going poorly. Your entire team literally self-destructs. It’s not just LoL either, this style of thinking has infected all the MOBAs. It’s fucking terrible and makes me want to vomit.

        Unless you’re extremely lucky you have two choices, either conform or put everyone on ignore. Putting everyone on ignore in a team game, playing online seems quite counterintuitive.

        • Commodore says:

          Agreed. I played LoL for a couple years before the rampant rage and all-around poor behavior of a not insignificant portion of the community finally got to me. I haven’t really looked back since, and Riot doesn’t seem too incredibly concerned with actually solving the problem.

          Then again, they don’t seem too concerned with solving any problem…

          • Ringwraith says:

            I’m not sure how you solve it. It’s a free-to-play game so banned people just make another account if they don’t mind re-building their investment, and having the tribunal helps keep shuffling the undesirables back to the bottom of the pile, but there’s only so much you can do.

  3. Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

    I can’t see any way this can possibly be exploited. None at all. At all, I tell you.

  4. Tony M says:

    You don’t need to give tangible rewards to incentivise points. Gamers love points. You could award everyone on this forum 1 RPS point and people would be screaming:

    “WHAT ARE RPS POINTS AND HOW TO I GET MORE? MORE POINTS PLZ”

    • Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

      I have 24 RPS points. Respect me!

    • jrodman says:

      We also like to compare our scores — HEy! How does Lord Custard have 24 already? What a cheater! TAKE HIS POINTS AWAY AND BURN THEM!

    • Yuri says:

      Thou hast no honor, foul knave!

  5. Tom OBedlam says:

    I think what’s important to recognise here is that Dota2 is only in it’s beta testing still, so the fact that the commendation/report feature is mostly totemic is more an indication that Valve are trying to ensure that it’s correctly implemented. We can see from Gabe’s interviews that he really wants to tie good sportsmanship to a material reward. LoL’s johnny-come-lately feature cloning only shows what a good idea it is, but they lack the commercial juggernaut of Steam to implement a reward structure.
    .

    • Crazy Horse says:

      They could adapt a reward stucture which grants Inf. points to ‘honorable players’. Although I do find it hard to believe it will do much in improving the rabid community spirit in LoL.

      LoL games, like all the MOBAlikes, require extreme amounts of teamwork and communiation. The age of the average LoL player generaly makes him incapable of either in a freindly and coherent manner. This, combined with the fact that a single game is a large time investment at roughly 40 mins or more, (if you continually leave before your entire team has surrendered you will be banned) is what turns your every single LoL game into ‘omg stfu u noob uninstall now pls’

      • maximiZe says:

        “MOBAlikes”? That’s the worst one I’ve heard so far.

    • Moraven says:

      No, DOTA is not in beta really anymore. It is only in beta since all the champions are not in the game. You can buy the game now. There are tournaments for all skill levels. They released it early because people wanted to play it now, despite not having the full lineup.

      They are using beta like Google uses it. We had Gmail in beta for what, 5 years?

    • cyrenic says:

      ” they lack the commercial juggernaut of Steam to implement a reward structure.”

      If only they had a client with a store that millions of people use.

      • Emeraude says:

        If only the existing clients didn’t come with unwanted strings attached.

  6. Rahaks says:

    There is that story where a friend of mine who plays LoL quite a bit (sigh) got banned for nothing (the tribunal-thing does send you the report logs that got you banned, and there was absolutely nothing in there that deserved a sanction), so I can assume people juste vote guilty to earn points without even reading the shit.
    Based on that story, I can tell this new “feature” is just another useless barrier against the ability lane-pushing games have : to automatically morph random players into gigantic assholes.

    • misterT0AST says:

      I have used the Tribunal only a few times in total in my life.
      I couldn’t notice the reward. Maybe it was too little, maybe I just didn’t count my points right. A friend of mine did some judgements of his own aswell.

      In our experience, players submitted to that system have been already reported several times, and the judgement is to be made based on a bunch of games played.
      We have never, ever found anyone who deserved absolution.
      Always flamers or griefers. People who blatantly insulted teammates or enemies were the majority. AFKers are dealt with by Riot, without passing through judgement by the tribunal.

      If you are reported enough times to be judged, it usually means you’re going to be condemned.

      I have played around 1500 total games of LoL. I have never been banned. Same goes for my 5 friends, who have around 800 games played each.

      • Rahaks says:

        Well he had 4 games in this report list :

        - in two of them, he had an amazing score and was reported for various reasons, like harassment (without saying a word in the whole game), intentional feeding (lol), and my favourite, being AFK.
        - in one of them, he had 3 reports for harassment, again without a word said. But the comments on the reports were the same for the three : ” EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”. That explains a lot for sure.
        - in the last one, he went like 4/7/5 and was reported for intentional feeding.

        So of course we are discussing over the internet, you do not have to believe me, nor I have to believe you when you say that pretty much all reports are legit.
        I have quite a bit of experience in lane-pushing games and I know that people can be real dicks when they are smashed to the ground, and some of them are inclined to use every single option they have to express their madness, like sending fake reports.

        Also : “If you are reported enough times to be judged, it usually means you’re going to be condemned.”
        -> Why is there that “forgive” button then ? You can’t just go with “people are reported, they are obviously guilty”. This is just unfair. But talking about fairness in this kind of game just seems awkward anyway.

        I’m glad I stopped lane-pushing games =D

        • misterT0AST says:

          I actually learned how to deal with my own rage and everyone else’s anger thanks to LoL. It was almost group therapy for me and my friends.
          I think it’s actually a very good way to understand people, and make them better.
          My patience has exponentially increased since I started playing.

          I was actually surprised to see everyone was to be judget as guilty. After examining those few cases I stopped using the tribunal: the process was always the same. Read flaming, take a look at score, click “condemn”. It was boring, I felt like I was used as a machine.
          Why can’t a bot do that??

          I guess among the dozens of guilty players there are a few to absolve, but people sadly started to ASSUME everyone they see is guilty.
          It’s sad, it means the system doesn’t work.
          Riot can’t expect people to dig through mountains of crap to find a nugget of chocolate, for a few Influence Points.
          I have no idea how they could solve this.

          • Phantoon says:

            I’ve done the tribunal four times I think, and I’ve found people that should’ve been pardoned. Specifically, if you read between the lines, you can tell when people pull bullshit like reporting the person that’s reporting them because they think it’ll help them get even. In that case, it didn’t.

            I also ended up voting to ban on every one I read one week, and only ended up getting half the points, because half of them got pardoned.

        • Yuri says:

          Fortunately, after the recent Tribunal update, Riot has begun filtering report stats somehow and people have actually been banned for spamming false reports.

          There was a bit of an uproar on the LoL forums about it, but i haven’t seen a single troll report on Tribunal ever since.
          And i do it at least once weekly, in search of lulz.

      • InternetBatman says:

        I used the Tribunal a few times when it first started, but also found the IP insufficient for the amount of time it took. Four fifths of the people I saw there were overwhelmingly guilty, usually dropping n-bombs and the like, after reading through all that dreck I wouldn’t be surprised if a culture of ban em all and let support sort it out took hold.

    • Ritashi says:

      I find that highly suspicious. There is a small chance that the majority of people who voted on his case voted to punish without reading it, even though that will usually earn them no IP (you get 0 IP for incorrect votes). Even then, Riot always reviews the cases that get a punish vote before issuing bans; the tribunal is merely there to help Riot sort through the huge number of cases, and only have to review a subset which should include all or nearly all of the cases which need action taken. Basically, it’s possible that you’re telling the truth about the logs, but even if you are he would only have gotten a warning the first time, and short bans (1-3 days at the very most) for subsequent offenses. You don’t get banned your first time in the Tribunal, unless you were *really* bad, and permabans only happen if you consistently cause problems (It’s probably possible to get permabanned on the first time through, but it would have to be really bad for that to ever happen).

  7. AmateurScience says:

    I hope they include some kind of metric to distinguish new players with no honour (because they’re new) from experienced players with no honour (because they’re dicks).

    • Yuri says:

      Personally, i hope they don’t attach any rewards to Honor.
      What i would like is to make Honor a secondary matchmaking criteria.

      High honor players would be teamed with other high Honor players.
      It would be quite nice. If you’re nice and accumulated high Honor throughout your matches, you’ll play with players sharing a similar attitude.

  8. mr.ioes says:

    So, trading honor points works the same as in Dota 2 then, I guess? Do you have to be ingame? The commendation system works very fine in my opinion, you can easily tell how good a player is just by comparing the amount of commendations with their wins.

    I’ve yet to find a player that “abused” the system by trading commendations properly (not trading 4v4 since this is easily spotted by everyone).

    • zeroskill says:

      it used to be possible to trade commendations,and people did this on a massive scale, but this is gone since you can only commend somebody now after a played game.

  9. televizor says:

    Speaking of Dota 2, anyone got an extra beta invite?
    A friend’s been waiting for over half a year for some beta access…

    • Crazy Horse says:

      I got mine quite quickly. The trick is to sign up for the invite on a laptop which has a less than common graphics card. Compatibility testing and all that.

      The game itself is a real disapointment though. It simply isn’t any kind of fun at all.

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      Apparently this month’s copy of PC Gamer has a Dota 2 code in it.

    • ShatteredAwe says:

      I got one EXACTLY a week after I signed up. Yeah, it’s boring. Stick to LoL

      • leeteet says:

        Boring? It’s miles ahead of LoL gameplay/features and the best part about it that you don’t need to spend 4000 hours to unlock everything gameplay related if you don’t want to pay.

  10. Berzee says:

    Yeah…most games are better for also becoming a popularity contest. o_O

    • Phantoon says:

      It’s good to see the insecurities of attention whores being reinforced.

  11. derbefrier says:

    Soooo does this stuff actually do any good? Its sounds nice in theory but in practice these thing seem to rarely have any actual impact on peoples behavior.

  12. RandomEsa says:

    If you’re so blatantly going to rip off something from your competitor at least make it work. Tribunal was a bad feature and only encouraged ( and still does) people to report from a slightest mistake in a hopes that someone would some day ban them and it really limits what you can possibly do in game.

    Also in dota 2 the commendation system is both broken and abused. It doesn’t offer a reward for having a high commendation rating because people can just + everyone ( including their friends) for points in their profile.

    But i’ll admit that few times when I have gotten a +1 from a completely random guy after a game of dota, because I played so well made feel really good. So it’s not completely useless.

  13. kwyjibo says:

    Well, at least Tencent are ripping off right.

    The facebook guys have long said that had myspace just copied them feature for feature when they were still in the lead, that facebook would have died.

    LoL is about 10 times bigger than Dota 2, it has 1 million concurrent players as opposed to 100,000. They know what they’re doing, right now, their best strategy is to rip off.

    • zeroskill says:

      “it has 1 million concurrent players”

      According to Riot I presume? They surely havn’t been confirmed liars in the past.

      “their best strategy is to rip off”

      Have they ever done anything else? Really now…

      • Rahaks says:

        This.

        Plus Dota 2 is still in beta.

        I have nothing against people being fan(boys/girls), but lets be realistic : LoL is a (badly) ripped off game.

      • Unaco says:

        Also, isn’t LoL released, or at least open… anyone can sign up, download and start playing? Whereas DOTA2 is still in closed Beta, with the number of invites being limited. In which case, it’s hardly surprising that LoL has more players.

        • Moraven says:

          You can pay to get in this supposed “Beta”.

          They simply have not opened the game up to be fully free to play outside invite keys, which are pretty common now. Steamworks and cash store have been up for awhile.

          • zeroskill says:

            Once Valve opens the gates of Dota 2, it will be basically a flood of new players. They said they are not ready for that. And the fact that you can buy Dota 2 access in the store (which comes with a substantial amount of consmetics one has to add) is to prevent black market sales of Beta invites in the full price range of brand new AAA titles on Ebay and the like. Which is a reasonable measure to take.

            Meanwhile patches a rolling out, the game isn’t ready yet for the public, there is no help for new players, as in tutorials, bot’s havn’t been fully integrated, the entire social tab hasn’t been integrated, there is no reasonable way to trade items directly in game and no ingame currency such as metal in Team Fortress 2, there are still heros missing from the pool. All this, plus player feedback that has to be considered, has to be done before they can release a game out of beta status because Valve has standarts. They won’t just release a half-finished game, granted more polished than most others, but still not finished in their eyes just because some random guy on the internet wants it so.

      • Asurmen says:

        What exactly have they ripped off?

        • Vorphalack says:

          The classic map layout, itemisation, core game mechanics, most of the hero skill sets, even hero skin themes. They have been getting better at the last two recently, but after 2 years that’s probably down to running out of good things to copy. Necessity is the mother of invention.

          • Moraven says:

            Champions from the first 1-2 years shared skills that appear in DotA, but there is none with the same exact skillset.

            Not having to deny nor losing gold on death are big changes I like, death is not as punishable (you lose time in lane, xp/gold, while giving them xp/gold for the kill still.

            DotA is not having to come up with a heroes (yet). New engine and skins (can’t really copy Warcraft 3 skins). Same skills for the past 10 years.

          • RandomEsa says:

            There has been 5 new heroes released in dota 1 while dota 2 has been in closed beta.

            Also shows what you know about dota. There are only 4 skills that are either exactly same or slightly different and Lion has 3 of those ( rhasta hex, nyx impale and lina ultimate) and anti-mage + qop share a blink ability.

            Denying also offers more depth to the laning phase and especially when you start denying heroes, but I can see why some people dislike it.

          • Asurmen says:

            Sorry, but your first 3 points are less ripping off and more including staples of the genre. It’s like saying in FPS games having a crosshair with health and ammo counters means you’re ripping oft every other FPS. The other two points I’m less sure on but I can’t say I’ve seen any LoL heroes which are direct rip offs on Dota heroes.

          • Malibu Stacey says:

            Seeing as the creator of the DotA Allstars map, Guinsoo, works at Riot & designed LoL, it’s a bit difficult to say they ‘copied’ Dota.

          • zeroskill says:

            “Seeing as the creator of the DotA Allstars map, Guinsoo,”

            Guinsoo didn’t make the original map though, Eul did that, who is now working at Valve together with Icefrog.

            Wikipedia:

            The first version of Defense of the Ancients was released in 2003 by a mapmaker under the alias of Eul[15] who based the map on a previous StarCraft scenario known as “Aeon of Strife”.

            Guinsoo was involved too, but all he did was making variants of the original map made by Eul and rediculously imbalanced hero’s in Dota. Since 2005 Icefrog is maintaining and balancing Dota and is mainly responsible that the game took off as much as it did. Guinsoo is definatly the one of the three developers that were involved in Dota with the least lasting influence on the game.

            Also Guinsoo is kind of a immature douchbag.

          • Vorphalack says:

            ”Sorry, but your first 3 points are less ripping off and more including staples of the genre”

            It’s still fundamentally copying, weather you want to put a positive or negative spin on it is entirely your own prerogative.

          • Asurmen says:

            I’m not putting any spin on it, you are for reasons that make no sense. You seem to be criticsing Riot for including what many would class as normal parts of the genre, and including the parts they added which are not in Dota.

          • Vorphalack says:

            Would you kindly quote the part where I criticised Riot? Or copying game mechanics in general?

          • Asurmen says:

            The fact that you replied to me asking what they’ve ripped off with an answer that wasn’t really an answer? I apologise if I’ve read your tone wrong.

          • Vorphalack says:

            Well I can see how you got there, but i’m not bashing Riot, just stating some facts.

      • InternetBatman says:

        They’ve changed a hell of a lot more than Dota 2 did. The have 3v3 mode, Domination mode, the Tribunal, different champions, tutorials for all the champions which included developer advice on how to play them, recommended items, respawning inhibitors, runes, two different skins for the map, grass, and took out denies.

        Dota 2 currently added the ability to watch live tournaments, videos of the characters using their powers, a leveling system that may or may not do anything, different announcers, different couriers, and the Steam Workshop (which includes the annoying locked chest system).

        I’m playing Dota 2 now, because I got tired of identikit heroes coming out that were overpowered to get a bunch of sales, and then being balanced two weeks later. But saying that LoL has somehow been less innovative than other games in the genre (even if some people don’t like those innovations) is utterly fallacious.

        • rockman29 says:

          The original Dota was played 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and 5v5. And everyone on these games worked on Dota 1 in some shape or form.

          Dota 2 didn’t change anything because it is the only game that is Dota. If it were scaled, HoN would be the second closest thing to Dota.

          The original Dota had different skins for maps (winter and summer and others), as well as different couriers. You could even change the colour of the water whenever you wanted using a 255^3 RGB system. You could also turn on snow or rain effects whenever you wanted.

          All this taking out denies and such was simply to make the game easier and more accessible. Whether or not that’s a good thing is very debatable (imo, it just makes the early game incredible passive, and that’s why it is accessible and easier for players).

          The leveling system is a system taken from RTS games like Starcraft II and Warcraft III. It is not salient to end users when it will do something or what it will do. In Warcraft III and Starcraft II it is used in matchmaking (though it was abused in Warcraft III and the original Starcraft due to bnet account remaking constantly).

          So basically if any of us are truly being objective about this, almost every change, whether in Dota 2 or LoL, originally came from Dota 1 and/or Warcraft III where all the games started from.

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      LoL is about 10 times bigger than Dota 2, it has 1 million concurrent players as opposed to 100,000. They know what they’re doing, right now, their best strategy is to rip off.

      Actually they seem to think their best strategy is to force the professional scene to choose between their game or something else.
      They refuse to allow LoL tournaments at events if games in the same genre are also being run (Dreamhack get around this by running the LoL events themselves & as they allow anyone to run a tournament, Corsair sponsor and ‘run’ the Dota 2 tournaments).
      Since they found that wasn’t working, they’ve decided to force professional teams not to have teams in similar game genres. They will publicly deny this but the teams themselves have confirmed it (their actions speak louder than their words, organisations have been dropping one of either LoL or Dota 2 teams since the middle of summer when this was leaked).

      I guess If you can’t beat them, go for underhanded tricks to control the market.
      Wonder what they’ll try when that fails.

      • Rahaks says:

        They will probably make the whole hero pool available for everyone, like Dota 2. Or maybe not, because some dudes spent a lot of money for LoL characters and I guess they’d be really pissed off to see what they paid is now free.

        Mmmh.

        I guess they’ll just do nothing. Cause there is nothing they can really do (nothing legit / acceptable at least). They can’t just force people to play their game and nothing else.

        Players who like easy lane-pushing games (no deny, no gold loss, no ally relocation, no chicken, no … ) will stick to LoL. Players who like true lane-pushing games will go for Dota 2.

        • InternetBatman says:

          Or people will just cycle through them based on mood. LoL does have some advantages like quicker game modes that Dota has yet to copy.

          • rockman29 says:

            The original Dota from 2003 is the one to first have shorter game modes such as Capture Point, Easy Mode, WTF mode, and others. All the experimentation on Dota 2 and LoL and HoN came from Dota 1 in Warcraft 3 first. Which all of these guys worked on.

            Credit goes where credit is due.

  14. CharlO says:

    Here are my two cents, they should pool based on honor.

  15. Scouter says:

    So… popularity contest? Videos now having “Thumb me up ingame for honor points if you like” and other crap?

    • Phantoon says:

      And Like this on Facebook. And Upvote on Youtube. And Digg this. And +1 this on Reddit. And +1 this on Slashdot…

      Yeah, incentivizing has to be done when the culture is to be a dick.

  16. KilgoreTrout_XL says:

    I played this game one time. I went in expecting screaming and bitching and moaning and crying, figuring that if I tried to imagine the worst online community ever, I’d wind up getting pleasantly surprised.

    I was so naive. Nothing- NOTHING- can prepare you for the shithead tsunami that is one game of LoL.

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      Apparently HoN is worse. I wouldn’t know personally as I hadn’t played these type of games until I got a Dota 2 invite back in February.

      • cyrenic says:

        Yes, HoN is worse. I know from personal experience. It’s crazy to think you can do worse than the general LoL community, but HoN beats it easily for worst community.

        • jezmabez says:

          I’ve never been to HoN’s community, but from what I’ve heard from friends, it is the slimiest of the slimy. It’s so slimy, it could nest in a shamwow with no regard for it’s miraculous absorptive power.

  17. Ravelle says:

    You have idiots in every game, it’s easily fixed if you just get a bunch of friends together and play it, it’s a fun game but only with the right people but you can say that about any game, really.

  18. jezmabez says:

    In all due respect to those who’ve played the original Dota and other variants of the ‘MOBA’ or Lane Pushing Games (LPG).

    To those who complain that LoL is a rip-off of Dota and Dota 2, down to many of it’s elements, (including honor), I feel like much of your dislike for LoL is due to the fact that Dota was the original, and therefore anything ‘copied’ from Dota makes this game ‘stupid’ and ‘bad’. Obviously like Dota was popular, League of Legends is popular in it’s own right for a reason.

    I don’t argue that Dota requires more skill in terms of it’s mechanics. It’s a game that is technical in it’s form and punishing in execution. This is arguable as to whether this makes it a ‘better’ game, weigh those pros and cons, rather than simply saying ‘harder is better’, ‘simpler is bad’, LoL = Bad Dota Copy.

    No game is created in a void, and certainly ideas are rooted in it’s contemporaries around it. A game that sets a precedent, has many elements replicated because those elements define the genre. An example of this is FPS mechanics. I believe first started by Doom, which set a genre for the rest of the games. You don’t complain these days that every game ripped off Doom.

    While I don’t mind that LoL used the honor system from Dota 2 as community management is by no easy beast to tame due to the sheer difficulty of stemming negative competitive behaviour. I mention the points above to stave off some of the seemingly one-sided, good/bad Dota/2 elitism, that seems to be so common.