Molyneux’s Mighty Trash Talk: GODUS Multi Video

By Nathan Grayson on December 19th, 2012 at 8:00 am.

Right then, lesson learned: Peter Molyneux really gets into multiplayer matches. He’s not one for pulling his verbal punches, either. Confronted with the idea that one of his employees could topple his burgeoning godtopia, he curtly fired back, “I’m the father of the god game genre.” You can’t really escalate it any further than that, can you? But yes, hot on the heels of a quick GODUS prototype, Molyneux and co cans have released a full-blown multiplayer demonstration. Granted, it’s extremely rough, but it’s certainly, well… something.

So right now, it’s pretty much a matter of creating ideal conditions for your tiny ant people and, um, valiantly struggling to avoid un-creating them. Molyneux, however, doesn’t seem to be a huge fan of the fact that it’s possible to do the divine equivalent of kicking down your opponent’s sand castle and bellowing “neener-neener,” so the extreme malleability of everything might be subject to some more rules soon.

If nothing else, it’s an interesting inside look at the process behind these things – even if they were obviously hamming it up for the camera. It’s a bit weird for me, though: I’m generally an advocate of getting fans in on the ground floor, but – at this stage – GODUS is hardly even a game. I can sort of imagine how it could evolve into a truly interesting fusion of Populous, Dungeon Keeper, and Black & White, but right now, the full scope of 22 Cans’ vision isn’t really apparent.

Generally, I tend to think something’s better than nothing, but does that adage hold true when a product’s been so obviously rushed onto Kickstarter? Short of developing this prototype for at least a couple months instead of a couple weeks, do you think there’s anything 22 Cans could’ve done markedly better here?

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87 Comments »

  1. f1x says:

    The more videos they release the less faith I have in this,

    I dont really see Molyneux as an strong, inspiring and motivating lead director, he should be just a consultor and leave someone actually solid lead the team

    On the other hand the game fails to amuse at the moment, I would like a new Populous but at the moment the design is so damn uninspired I dont know if the models at the moment are simple placeholders but everything from animations to colors to concepts are looking dull

    :(

    • Tomac says:

      It’s an early prototype, meaning pre-alpha. Meaning barest of the bones. I hope i don’t have to explain further.

      • f_zul says:

        It is useless to explain. Cause f1x immediately rejected such notion and had considered 2-weeks prototype as a final version of promised game. Right now he awaits for pejorative review.

      • f1x says:

        Allright, sorry, no need to flame me tho, never said I’m watching this as a full game, but I’m trying to watch it as a something that could be a game and still its hard

        Maybe the problem is yes, they shouldnt be showing it this early

        sorry for being grumpy, but they are showing this to try to make people excited about the game, just that is not exciting at all, more like depressing

        • Xzi says:

          They’re showing it as proof of concept. Which is really nothing more than that. The vast majority of what makes gameplay exciting is in the details, and right now there’s been no detail added.

          Personally, I adore Black and White to this day. And loathe Black and White 2 to this day. God sims aren’t supposed to be RTSes. So I’m hoping that GODUS reaches its kickstarter goal, but any anticipation I have for it is met with some trepidation. Mostly due to Molyneux’s involvement. Fable: TLC and Black and White were both fairly enjoyable, but everything Lionhead did afterward was downright terrible.

        • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

          Don’t show any footage: people complain you don’t have any footage, so they’re not giving you any money.

          Show early footage: people complain your footage is crap, so they’re not giving you any money.

          Show more developed footage: people complain this is Kickstarter, your footage is so polished you’ve obviously been working on this for ages, you’re abusing the system, so they’re not giving you any money.

          I’m not making a value judgement on any of this, I haven’t contributed to a Kickstarter yet. Seems like many devs just can’t win with it these days though.

          • f1x says:

            You can see it the other way around: excuses to avoid criticism

            Of course there is a angry type of internet dweller (maybe I’m one) which will never be satisfied, but there are also a lot of kickstarter histories about developers just not doing it right

            Problem here is not early footage, is the appeal of what is being shown:
            - no clear ideas or directions
            - no sense of how this game is actually gonna be like
            - dull concept art, uninspired flat designs
            - Molyneux rambling around like a messiah instead of acting like a professional game developer

          • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

            I don’t disagree with you there, and I think in both this case and Elite it definitely can/maybe does come across that way. Thing is, it’s perfectly understandable that they’d get on the defensiveand start pushing something, anything, out given all the vitriol that’s been directed their way. I can get where it’s coming from, but it’s still mostly unwarranted.

            If my memory isn’t totally borked, when the whole KS thing exploded you had well known developers (and I’d argue Schafer and Avelone are far better known than Braben is in most gaming circles) pitching stuff purely on ideas. Wasteland had pretty much nothing to show and the DF adventure was nothing beyond a hollow concept.

            These guys do the same thing and everybody jumps on the grumpy-train.

          • f1x says:

            Yes I feel its not entirely deserved, it seems that the folks are 22 cans are decent people and talented aswell, for that part I feel bad of course

            Molyneux being there is definitely one of the things causing the anger, but he got that himself, for the last years when he talks about videogames he is always appealing to the “feelings” and now he is getting feedback based on feelings aswell, in this case: anger

            But anyway, you are right that some others shown less and got away with it, and its true that maybe Godus can produce a better game than others that started with better materials or with bigger names into the project,

          • Ruffian says:

            I don’t know if it’s even safe to compare the DF adventure to this and others though. I mean adventure games are a lot simpler than a lot of other kinds of games and we know that DF already has (has had) all the tools they need to easily craft such a game right at their fingertips, from having made so many in the past. I could just be totally biased here, but it just seems to me that DF much more obviously had the pedigree/chops to do what they planned and the tools (it certainly helps that they were able to describe their system and others were already aware of it from hit games in the past and had used it) before they ever asked for money. I’m not saying I don’t see some simliarities between the two KSs but it just seems to me that a classic adventure is much easier to program and produce and all that than a big complicated civilization sim and as such is much easier to garner support for.

        • f_zul says:

          Uh, ok.
          They haven’t had implemented superpowers into that prototype, so at current stage it looks pretty rough and rather empty to say the least. But that’s how all prototypes usually look like anyway. Try to assemble one by yourself in Unity and see how indifferent and dull and even discouraging it may look. In order to make something viable out of it it requires hours of toil and a ton of self-confidence that eventually it will work.

          • f1x says:

            Thats true and I respect hardwork and effort,

            But on the other hand, its not about if I could do it better or not, its about being a potential customer/backer and I need to be convinced about what I’m going to pay for, thats my main issue here, what is presented is simply not interesting

            Of course this is my point of view, I truly wish the best for 22 cans (possibly not for Molyneux after all this years) but I also wished they would’ve presented everything in another more appealing way

          • sanderman says:

            Finally registered here so I could post this:

            I definitely agree with most of the reactions here. Instead of wasting their time with a boring landscape editor, they should have made a decent gameplay prototype, with actual gameplay mechanics and player interaction. I’ve seen many game prototypes in the last Ludum Dare which were more interesting, both visually and, more importantly, in gameplay than this Godus prototype.

            If a single person can make a game with interesting mechanics in under 48 hours, why does a team of full-time professionals have such a problem producing an interesting proof of concept in two weeks?

            I never played the original Populous, though I fondly remember my time with Populous: The Beginning. I am also aware that Peter Molyneux had left Bullfrog by this time to work at Lionhead. I loved the first Black and White but hated the sequel. I think people are valid in assuming that lately he is more talk than anything else.

          • Bilbo1981 says:

            “If a single person can make a game with interesting mechanics in under 48 hours, why does a team of full-time professionals have such a problem producing an interesting proof of concept in two weeks?”

            What games are made in 48 hours??? Please pass the crack pipe cheers!

        • f1x says:

          Yeap, its a proof of concept, but even the concept is yet to be defined, its so vague that if the release 2 more videos like this they are going to really start losing it
          what you said is true, without gameplay details is hard to get a grasp on this, of course this is interesting as a “how games are done” thing but not as a game itself (at the moment),

          what I mean from the start is they really have to start trowing some meat in to it, the concept art and designs that you can see at the kickstarter page looks barely like cliparts from google images, its so damn uninspired and generic

          On the other hand, I would love this to end up being awesome, because I really like simulators (loved Theme Hospital, theme park, tycoons, etc back then and love Kairosoft games now for example), and as you said the current Molyneux persona worries me

        • Syra says:

          Early or not it still looks terrible and doesn’t really deserve a daily rps article. it’s on kickstarter now, we know, thanks, we still don’t care much.

          • f_zul says:

            Haven’t you ever thought that through such recurrent posts they just wanted to see how much of a fox poison will be splashed out on Molyneux this time?

          • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

            Five articles on GODUS within a month, one of which was a passing mention in an interview with the maker of MAIA, one of which was a slighty less passing mention in an interview with Molyneux.

            There’s only been three articles solely about GODUS since the 21st of November, one of which was the KS announcement.

            Unless you live on another planet I don’t think that’s anywhere near ‘”daily articles”.

          • spindaden says:

            The articles aren’t tagged terribly reliably.

            You have http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/project-godus/ + http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/godus/

            Which equals 8 in a month, that’s not daily but it is 2 a week (ignoring the katchup). Which i think is a bit unfair on all the other kickstarter projects, I know RPS has a policy of posting “whatever interests us” but when a project gets 2 posts a week with a text roughly saying “this isn’t very good, here look at how not great it is” and other, projects that are genuinely good maybe get 1 or 2 posts during their campaign, it’s a little bit cult of celebrity ish.

            As someone who does a bit of the old virtiol pouring, for me it’s the reputation of the name attached to the game that makes me approach the whole project with doubt and cynicism, and so far nothing being shown is enough to shake that initial suspicion, that goes for braben and molyneux (although braben almost had me once, he may still win out).

            The other big names who’ve come to kickstarter i either haven’t known, or they havent had that reputation for over promising and under delivering.

            To put it simply, Braben and Molyneux have been in my “wait and see what the reviews say” book for a while now, which means they have to work hard to win me over to an extremely early pre-order campaign.

          • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

            Fair enough on all points.

            I’d have more faith in Braben if they hadn’t had to can The Outsider. I really enjoyed the Lost Winds games, and apparently Kinectimals was pretty good if that’s your cup of tea, but they haven’t put out anything that would be classed as AA or above, well ,ever. I’ve been waiting for Elite 4 since FFE came out though, so I’m hoping he’ll get there.

            As for Molyneux, I’m not too fussed. Don’t quite get all the hate directed at him, even if he does sometimes come across as a bit of a twat at least he’s an enthusiastic twat. Also haven’t really enjoyed anything he’s done since the Bullfrog days – B&W might have been something special if I didn’t have to spend all my time babysitting a graphically shiny Tamogatchi with learning difficulties, and the Fables never really rose much above ‘they’re okay’. Still, I like that he’s around and I’m hoping this’ll make it too, even if it’s just to see what sky’s-the-limit promises get left out this time.

          • Ruffian says:

            Yeah, I never really understood where they were trying to go with fable after the first one. Never really got back into it either, after the fun value of “oh, I can flip off and fart on virtual villagers!” wore off.

  2. lordcooper says:

    I’ll pledge if he renames the game to Godface.

  3. FurryLippedSquid says:

    “Short of developing this prototype for at least a couple months instead of a couple weeks, do you think there’s anything 22 Cans could’ve done markedly better here?”

    Wouldn’t that have been enough? Perhaps not, but surely they could have at least knocked up an enhanced B&W engine in that time and thrown in a few omnipotent power tools.

  4. Kobest says:

    I wrote this to another post, but it holds here as well. I remember reading about Black and White’s developer diaries each month published in a Hungarian gaming magazine and boy, it sure sounded like a revolutionary game crafted from the tears of Jesus. When it came out though, it drained all meaning from the word ‘disappointing.’ Of course, the reviewers of the magazine simply had to give it a 90+ score after all the coverage that crap got over the months.

    Now, I’m not sure if I’m witnessing a game developer’s excessive narcissism here, but if the guy wants to remake Populous why can’t he just say it so? The fact that this terrible pitch can raise this much of money is a bit disgusting.

    Then again, count me in for a positive surprise. It’s just that it would be nice to know what this game is and what it aims to be, not just flailing around vague ideas from classic Bullfrog titles.

  5. RakeShark says:

    I still think the Star Citizen method of prototype before campaign is going to be a standard for highly successful (+300% funded) kickstarters moving ahead. Double Fine and Obsidian were able to get by on reputation alone and over-fund their projects, but I think that goodwill has peaked, as there aren’t a whole lot more old developers from ye olde days that haven’t A: Dug themselves into a hole, or B: Think their hotter shit than their potential customers think they are.

    That said after thinking about all this for awhile, I do think Molyneux deserves one, good shot. Same with Braben. After that, the market will decide.

  6. pakoito says:

    I really really really hope the kickstarter doesn’t make it. Molyneux needs the wakeup call more than the money and faith. Make a *good* game out of no expectatives and we will be back to you, meanwhile stop abusing the community.

    • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

      Abusing? In what way is this abusing anything?

      I often wonder how ‘gamers’ would manage to communicate if you took away their hyperbole.

    • jimjames says:

      So you want them to fail short of £40k.

      You want to see everyone potentially lose their jobs at 22cans?

      You want the 13,000 other people who are willing to give this a chance to be disappointed?

      Because Peter Molyneux what?

      • MrThingy says:

        “You want to see everyone potentially lose their jobs at 22cans?”

        WE DON’T OWE PEOPLE A LIVING

        Perhaps they should’ve bought a few cheap PCs for their start-up instead of kitting out their office like a high-end solicitor’s.

        • jimjames says:

          Of course we don’t owe people a living

          Empathy makes me want them to have one though. Failing a kick-starter like this will have some serious repercussions.

          Funnily enough, if you’re developing game for iOS, you might need to have some apple computers lying about. And if you’re planning on not wasting your employee’s time and you’re own money, you might want to have semi-decent computers so you’re not sat at your desk waiting for a game build to finish all day.

          (We also don’t need to use caps lock to stress our point).

          • pakoito says:

            I wonder how midsized companies/startups made games before kickstarter. Or well, how do they do the thousands of them there are around the globe.

            You should read about funding, loans and private investments because your perception of the market is very unrealistic.

          • Bent Wooden Spoon says:

            Very slowly and very painfully. And good luck getting that loan for anything that might be perceived as risky. If your perception of the market is that getting fundings, loans and investments for video game production is in anyway easy (it’s actually borderline impossible, hence publishers) then you’re the one with the unrealisitc view.

            Why do you think the whole KS thing blew up in the first place? Because crowd-funding allowed devs to make games they’d wanted to make for years but couldn’t get funded due to the supposed lack of market interest. In other words, they couldn’t get fundings or loans or investments.

            Have you been hibernating for the last decade or something?

          • Ruffian says:

            uhhhh, you don’t think it’s kind of retardedly reckless to put a company together based around the success of a kickstarter in the first place? I sure do.

          • pakoito says:

            ^

            What he said. One thing is a small sized team and another a full company.

      • grechzoo says:

        Yes people will lose their jobs and it will be unfortunate for them, but its reality. Companies that make bad decisions dont deserve to succeeed and shouldn’t, because then the industry gets better and has better quality, and guess what, those jobs you are so sad for, become more available and more secure.

        You have to flush out the shit to get better.

        —-

        I’m not saying 22 cans are shit, that was more of a generic statement overall. BUT this pitch is terrible, and the game will be an uprezzed populous. Something they can fund and make themselves and make quite a bit of money on I imagine.

        • jimjames says:

          Regardless, I still don’t hope they fail and lose their jobs, the people working in that office are just normal guys. While I accept its a sad reality its not one that I would hope to happen.

          There are not a great deal of independent developers in Britain. I personally believe that this pitch is worlds apart compared to many others coming from those big secure jobs you’re talking about. We’ll get an inside look into the development, invest in peoples livelihoods, get a unique game and feel good about it.

        • f_zul says:

          It’s not like they’re going to attract large scale of gamers and make $AAA-title out of the pledged money and then create a franchise out of it and sell to EA or something. They should be treated as an indie company, no more than that.
          If you’re on the side of bureaucratic machine that devours jobs then I can understand that. But for me the more people work for themselves the better reality we live on.

      • pakoito says:

        If they fail kickstarter they won’t lose their jobs. That’s not how companies work. The pitch is to fund (kickstart, not pay for full development) a SINGLE project inside a company, and is not their only source of money. And if it is, then their business plan is leading them to disaster.

        If they fail this pitch for this single project, they will have to decide whether to develop it anyway or change to a different cheaper feasible project and hope to meet ROI like any other normal business.

        I do hope they end up making money, but not due to some preorderish trust based fund system, rather by Molyneux delivering a (nonhyped) good game and the game selling in the millions.

        • jimjames says:

          In response to your earlier comment…

          Working at a video game company has given me a very clear understanding of what outside investment can do to creative decision making. I’m not saying that’s all bad, you have to be able to make a game that’s appealing. You’re comments on business plans make sense and I now accept it should not spell complete doom for them, although certainly won’t help this small company.

          I believe some are turning to kick-starter to find a niche market willing to see it through. Having the attitude that 13,000 other backers, myself included, are blindly being abused by Peter Molyneux is condescending. Some of us think that he is actually an OK guy.

  7. JavJav says:

    I feel ambivalent on your take of this initiative from Molyneux and Cans, particularly because we’re all overjoyed when Tim Schaffer does it (in the form of a long and fascinating episodic documentary, no less!).

    Honestly, while the whole affair with going into the kickstarter fare has been done hastily to say the least, it should be very fascinating to see more of the industry’s actual names discussing their process openly. Maybe next we’ll be shown videos of the game’s art design from scratch, hopefully.

  8. Arcanon says:

    Alpha or not, that’s the visual style they are going for, and I really don’t like it. It feels so bland and sterile, a tribal theme ala Populous or From Dust would have been much better, for me anyway.

    • f1x says:

      Thats what I mean before, but failed to express it properly,
      even as just a general style for the game it feels quite souless

    • Hoaxfish says:

      Only Pop3 had a tribal theme (after Peter had left Bullfrog), Pop1 and 2 look very much a lo-fi version of Godus’ houses and people (a sort of greco-roman togas and flat roofs, and for pop2… gods).

  9. TehK says:

    As much as I can understand the general criticism that is directed at Godus, I really don’t understand the point of a “rushed Kickstarter”. At least they had consistend updates including actual footage of the Prototype and you could see the development there. It was apparently absolutely fine for Schafer and Fargo to go to Kickstarter with nothing to show at all – except an idea.

    In this case, I suppose, surely Molyneux and 22Cans would have had the money to get a prototype ready before getting on Kickstarter. But the platform is also there for people to try and get the funding to start a project in the first place.

  10. Shezo says:

    One word — Godawfulus.

  11. Teovald says:

    These videos are interesting as documentaries, but do they really attract pledges ?
    Having a clear prototype for the game, even as a pdf or a simulation video (not sure these are allowed on kickstarter anymore though) could have been more than enough.
    Planetary Annihilation had a 1 minute simulation of what they wanted to do (supreme commander with asteroids), I was instantly sold to this idea. For all those that don’t know or remember Populous, I don’t think there was enough incentive to pledge.

  12. Premium User Badge

    Jp1138 says:

    What baffles me is that, after all this years and with the ulttra high ambitions of all Molyneux games, this is looking as a simple multiplayer terrain leveling simulator: basically what Populous was but with more people. When reading about this kickstarter I though it would be more in the vein of Powermonger or Black & White, games but may not have lived up to the expectations, but at least tried. This one seems simply boring to me and that´s why I have not pledged.

  13. plugmonkey says:

    “Short of developing this prototype for at least a couple months instead of a couple weeks, do you think there’s anything 22 Cans could’ve done markedly better here?

    Yes. Developed this prototype for a couple of weeks before launching the Kickstarter.

    At worst, developed this prototype for a couple of weeks at the beginning of the Kickstarter, which has now been running for a month.

    It all seems very reactionary.

    By the way, where are the “12 Boardgames of Xmas” updates we were told would be coming thick and fast this week? That was 2 days ago, and since then we’ve had Godus updates both thicker and faster.

  14. Parge says:

    Markedly better? I think the question should be whether they could have done anything markedly worse.

    They need to cancel the whole Godus idea and actually put some effort into making the beginnings of a game that shows backers what it is they would be getting.

    • Entitled says:

      They should cancel this project a mere few hours before they reach their goal, and two days before they collect their $700.000 funding?

  15. Premium User Badge

    Yachmenev says:

    The prototype videos and the other recent updates helped me understand the game. What I know this is now is a new Populous game, with multiplayer, and that will add aspects from Dungeon Keeper and Black&White to expand the game mechanics. And it will be developed in iterations, with the backers being a part of it.

    That’s definitely worth £20 to be a part of that. I hope other feels the same. I don’t believe 22 Cans when they say that is was the next planned step for them, but I don’t care either. What they’re doing now is what I hoped that they would do when Molyneux announced that he had formed and joined a new development team.

    • zaphod42 says:

      But look, they’re making it up as they go along. They proved with Curiosity that they are rushing things to the public before they’ve even THOUGHT THEM THROUGH. They don’t even seem to know themselves what they’re doing with Curiosity or where its going (they deliberately designed it to take a really long time so they could finish it AS it was being played). GODUS shows the same hubris to me, that they can just rake in money from kickstarter and be free to dick around without being accountable to anybody. That’s not what kickstarter is supposed to be. Its not a rich uncle to give you a free ride. People are donating money and they’ll never get anything for it, or what they get will just be worse than Black & White.

  16. Kobest says:

    Just take all that money, give them to Dennaton Games to make Hotline Miami 2: Miam’ Harder. :)

  17. MrThingy says:

    This is gonna sound like a strange comment… but bear with me.

    I’m kinda surprised that they’re prototyping on Macs with expensive Apple displays… rather than getting a few cheap PCs with decent graphics cards?

    I feel like this Kickstarter is simply bank-rolling some start-up’s desire to live a trendy office lifestyle, with Peter as this guru style manager (like Stuart from “The Thick Of It”, occasionally spouting meaningless office zen).

    • mickygor says:

      They’re developing for iOS too. Might as well consolidate expenses and just get iMacs.

    • mcwill says:

      It’s nearly impossible to develop seriously for iOS on anything other than a Mac.

      I’m assuming Curiosity was developed on Macs and the machines are, y’know, still there. Which means in real terms, GODUS has no machine costs.

  18. PearlChoco says:

    The say it’s a mix of Populous, B&W and Dungeon Keeper.
    Where does the Dungeon Keeper part come in? The Kickstarter page says “GODUS draws on the cunning battle-psychology of Dungeon Keeper”. So maybe there’s also a part of Team Fortress 2 (the red and blue colors) and Call of Duty (the use of simulated humans) in it?

    • f_zul says:

      In one of the updates they said that the followers will be able to dig deep into the ground, get the minerals out to the surface and use them in one way or another. That’s the part where DK’s vibe comes in.

      • Arthas says:

        By that logic wouldn’t Minecraft be inspired by Dungeon Keeper as well?
        What I see so far is basically just a remake of Popoulous with very, very few things added.

        Why should anyone pay for that when there are free flash versions of it available?

        • mcwill says:

          So…. they did a barebones Populous remake in 2 weeks (!) and this means clearly there’s not going to be any more to the game because… I dunno… cosmic rays will kill the entire dev team the minute the KS closes? Godzilla will assault the 22cans office?

          Honestly, there really is no pleasing some people.

          • Arthas says:

            Could you stop overreacting please?
            I just pointed out that nothing they have shown or talked about so far seemed like a huge improvement to the basic Populous gameplay.
            ‘m just judging this game by what they did show us so far and that’s unfortunately not a whole lot.

        • f_zul says:

          >By that logic wouldn’t Minecraft be inspired by Dungeon Keeper as well?

          Well, if you ask, yes I think so. Not entirely, but partly yes.

          >What I see so far is basically just a remake of Popoulous with very, very few things added.

          In general, yes. But one thing isn’t the same this time. I’m not absolutely sure about 1st or 2nd Populous, but P3 wasn’t about indirect control, influences and consequences of your ‘godlike will’. And as far as I know that’s what they’re so seeking for in Godus.

          • Arthas says:

            >Well, if you ask, yes I think so. Not entirely, but partly yes.
            And that I don’t get. I mean what made Dungeon Keeper Dungeon Keeper is certainly not the fact that you could dig around underground Oo It just seems silly to throw around that name when you don’t really use any of the mechanics that made Dungeon Keeper what it is.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      I thnk some of DK’s influence could come in the way they’ve been talking about how “faithful” your people are (the one example I can think of is that people in higher ground housing generate more faith/mana/whatever). Populous 1 has very little personality for individual people (though B&W did address that somewhat) where as DK is down amongst the troops.

      At this point though, I’d say Populous and B&W are far bigger influences here.

      • Slazer says:

        My main issue is that I really don’t see what this game should be at the end, calling it a mixture of several games leave the path wide open. He talks about ideas, but now how they should work in the actual game, so you could end up with great gameplay based on great concept, like in Spore or BW1 about anything not invlolving your creature (that was pretty nice).

        I supported Wasteland and Project Eternity based only on concept, but you pretty much know what they should look like when finished.

  19. mcwill says:

    This comment thread is why we can’t have nice things.

  20. Hoaxfish says:

    I think this is a prime example of a weird tug-of-war Kickstarter has going on…
    People want to see the project before funding it, but the whole point of Kickstarter is to gather the resources need to “start” it.

    Chickens and eggs.

    Molyneux seems in a haste to get 22Cans off the ground and established. He left Microsoft, founded 22Cans in March, Curiosity appeared in November (and has received at least 1 patch since), Cooperation was announced shortly after, then Godus (also in November), and now we’re in December. So far, I think he’s succeeding.

    • Arthas says:

      I think people just want to see a clear game idea and some simple proof of concept.
      If you ask for that much money you should really have at least those two things.

  21. sass says:

    Honestly, it seems like it’s just the cool thing to hate on Molyneux. The negative comments commonly seem to either be over-emotional, over exaggerated or baseless.

    The pre-alpha video looks shit so you’re not going to back it? Ok, sure. You should definitely judge the potential of the game on pre-alpha demos.

    His goals and or dreams for some of his previous games weren’t fully realised or had to be cut, so you call into question his honesty? Fine. Did you really not get any enjoyment out of those games? At all?

    You were in a monogamous relationship & he cheated on you? Sorry to hear that.

    Can you tell me if he cuddles after sex?

    • SkittleDiddler says:

      “Did you really not get any enjoyment out of those games?”

      As a person who dislikes Molyneux and all the press he gets here, I can justify that dislike by stating that, yes, I have never liked a Molyneux game that I’ve played. I consider him to be an overrated, overworshipped hack, and his games and reputation disappoint me.

    • Yosharian says:

      Y it’s definitely a hipster thing to hate on Molyneux, I think it’s pretty sad. He has released some average games over the years but he’s also released some great ones.

      People just love to be negative.

    • Laephis says:

      If you honestly think people post negative comments on a video game website about a video game developer to be “cool” and earn “hipster points”, you have one seriously fucked up sense of reality.

      How about just taking other people’s comments at face value instead of trying to psychoanalyze? Peter has done things in the past that people greatly dislike. Get over it.

  22. mmalove says:

    Well – I’m conflicted – on the one hand, ever since hellgate london the idea of vesting in a game just because a big name designer is behind it isn’t really popular with me. On the other, I can see one of the last members of the “games that made me” club doing what he enjoys best, and passionate about it, and I love that the internet and kickstarters are giving him that opportunity to go at it, without getting tied to something like EA and the horribly bureaucracy (Origin, looking at you here) that comes with.

    Definitely not something I’d prepurchase, but I’m genuinely happy for him, and wish his team the best.

  23. Blue_Lemming says:

    When i comes to discussing a feature i could imagine him saying “I am the father of a god game” quite often.
    He’s had some good ideas but maybe needs someone else to reign in his ego a little, the devs look a bit scared of challenging his ideas.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      I think there’s at least something at the back of their minds warning them not to have an argument on a backer’s video… of course they probably wouldn’t post a video where that happens.

      • Blue_Lemming says:

        I’ve probably owned a good majority of his older titles, populus 1 and 2, theme hospital, dungeon keeper bla bla etc i am an old gamer etc etc. Black and White was a bit flat, and sadly bugged in many many places, i enjoyed it in places when it wasn’t frustrating me.

        He needs someone telling him, “that’s not a feature its a bug”. I’ll keep my eye on this one.

  24. zaphod42 says:

    > “Short of developing this prototype for at least a couple months instead of a couple weeks, do you think there’s anything 22 Cans could’ve done markedly better here?”

    Yes. HAVE A DESIGN DOCUMENT. Somebody really needs to force Molyneux to sit down and think through exactly what elements of Black & White, Populous, and Dungeon Keeper he wants in this, and how they’re going to work together.

    He seems to think he can just play with it as it goes, and things will work out. Well, with infinite time and money, sure, but a kickstarter is not by any means infinite time and infinite money.

    This is going to crash and burn so hard. : /

  25. Yosharian says:

    I didn’t back this one, never played Populous in its era, but I’m glad to see it succeed. Good luck with the project guys.

  26. Bilbo1981 says:

    Its been funded haters, so go hate somewhere else.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      Glad it’s funded. Now I don’t have to moralise with myself over backing it so it does get made (and Peter doesn’t kill himself), but not backing it so it’s still a close-call (and hopefully reigns in Peter’s “over-promising”)

  27. SpiderLoot says:

    I’m not a fan of Peter. I think he cripples his own games, and puts implementation, platform and concept above gameplay, He’s concerned with making games super accessible and interesting to control, all while disregarding (or perhaps misjudging is a better word) whether those games are worth accessing.

    Now..having said all that…I will be extremely disappointed if this fails. While every fiber of my being is telling me that the final product will have a shelf life of half an hour, I really want it to happen.

    I just want Bullfrog Peter back!