Thief: Getcha Gothy Garrett Here

By Alec Meer on March 15th, 2013 at 9:12 am.

We live in a world where a new Thief game is definitely happening, and any human being with an internet connection is free to look at screenshots of it. Imagine that. Sadly, in direct contravention of the 48th amendment and the Brazilian internet democracy act of 1873, Game Informer is currently keeping the lion’s share of info on Eidos Montreal’s reboot of the classic Looking Glass sneak ‘em up to themselves. It’s there you’ll need to go to see videos of new screenshots, particularly of Thief star Garrett’s new look. He’s been watching The Crow, I think. Goth! Goth! Goth! Goth! Amusingly though, there’s been a brief fan kerfuffle based on a worry that our beloved tea-leaf isn’t gothy enough.

This stems from comments made by Eidos Montreal in the Game Informer video stating that “In the beginning he was kind of more gothic; we turned down all the things that feel more gothic. For example: black nails and things like that – we don’t have that any more. We want to make him a little bit more mainstream on that.” The response to this, particularly the use of the dread term ‘mainstream’, saw fans (you know where from) howling about dumbing down and whatnot. It was frantic enough that Nicolas Cantin, Thief Game Director, subsequently posted a statement clarifying that they meant this relative to their own initial Garrett designs.

“I was referring specifically to a previous Garrett design we tried out internally and not Garrett from the previous games. Our early design went a LOT more gothic – with black nails etc – but we thought that this wasn’t true to the legacy of Garrett so we pulled it back a bit. Returning to something more true to the original Garrett is what I meant when I said we made him more ‘mainstream’, this wasn’t a comment about the direction of the game. I can assure you we’re huge fans of the original games and we’ve done our homework to create a game that maintains the essence of the original. I can’t wait to show you more of the game and Garrett soon!”

GOTH GOTH GOTH GOTH GOTH

, , .

225 Comments »

  1. pbrand says:

    Ick. I’m not really interested in that design, and I’m even less interested in the artists’ rationale.

    • Syra says:

      Yeah it looks terrible, clearly some taffers are working on it that can’t distinguish between gothic and modern day emo goths. The fools.

    • Lemming says:

      I was the same at first, but I think it’s the rationale behind the design that they blurted out publicly which has got my back up. If they’d just released the pictures I probably wouldn’t have reacted so strongly. For instance, I like that he’s skinny. I could do without the metrosexual emo vibe though.

    • Teovald says:

      I am waiting for the full game to see if my fears are justified or not, but I don’t see this new Garrett fitting in the original Thief world.
      I hope that they did not feel the need to ‘re-imagine’ the Thief universe as well. It is still to this day pretty original and does not need to follow the same mainstreamization process than Deus Ex HR.

      • Lemming says:

        That’s a wise idea, and I think I’ll follow suit. Let’s hope all the PR around console-talk is just to get the masses hyped and not indicative of taking the ‘teeth’ out of the franchise.

    • Premium User Badge

      Smashbox says:

    • Outsider says:

      This design is awe-inspiringly terrible. I understand you’re rebooting it and some things will require redesign, but this is way wrong. This is not Garret, not even a little.

      • morgofborg says:

        Garret’s defining trait was unsentimental pragmatism. Goth stylings are totally incompatible with that – even if its just a little goth instead of a lot of goth.

        Garret’s story essentially came full circle with Thief 3 anyway, so they should just do what they really seem to want and design a new protagonist.

  2. gravity_spoon says:

    RIP Thief.

    • Premium User Badge

      AndrewC says:

      Yes, he does look rather pale. Bloody goths.

    • Ultra Superior says:

      No. That man rested in peace for far too long. Look at him now, all mid-age crisis with smokey eyes and powdered forehead like an old, sad opera singer who fell from grace after losing his battle with alcohol.

    • Premium User Badge

      Cinek says:

      First 30 seconds of the video

      “for today’s CONSOLE market”

      RIP Thief.

      • Ich Will says:

        Thief 3 was also made for the console market

        • Loopy says:

          Yes and look at the compromises that brought. It wasn’t a bad game really (The Shalebridge Cradle is still a great level in it’s own right), but it definitely suffered form some restrictions… in level size for instance, compared to the first two games.

          Hopefully the rumoured specs of the next generation consoles mean these sort of things won’t be an issue any more.

          • KenTWOu says:

            So level size… what else?

          • mutopia says:

            KenTWOu; Here’s a list:

            The size of levels and complex architecture was more than halved compared to T1&2 due to the limitations of the Xbox. The team tried to be crafty but it was little use.

            An added unnecessary third-person view mode which managed even to ruin first-person movement. Generally most of the movement mechanics in T3 are messed up and clunky, especially on PC, as a result of it being a bad port made for the Xbox controller.

            All loot highlighted with an impossible to miss sparkly glow/glint (taking half the fun out of exploring) for console audiences.

            Rope arrows were taken out and replaced with a climbing glove which you could only use at sparse contextual spots (as opposed to rope arrows being usable on most anything made of wood). I’m not entirely sure whether this was done specifically for console audiences or console control schemes or technical limitations or all of the above.

            There’s more but you get the idea. It’s still a good game (as opposed to a great game like T1&2) but going Xbox just killed it, no matter how brilliant and dedicated the team were.

            I see T4 failing for entirely different reasons though: a hopelessly clueless team would top the list, after hearing this latest spouting of utter nonsense and gibberish.

          • KenTWOu says:

            @mutopia
            But these are not console restrictions, these are technical compromises and design decisions. Third-person view gave us visibility of our own body and our own shadows, so it also made first person view much better! Loot was highlighted, yeah, cause the game had almost monochromatic art design. Today additional option could easily fix such issue. The lack of rope arrows is the consequences of small levels and using of brand new Havok engine.

            But lights and shadows were seriously improved, AI was tremendously improved, the game structure was seriously improved, instead of boring ‘level after level after level’ structure we’ve got The City with days and missions, with fractions and NPCs. Thief 3 had lots of improvements here and there. And it’s a great game just like T1&2!

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip says:

            Uh, “technical compromises and design decisions” entirely brought on by being on console. How are they not console restrictions?

          • KenTWOu says:

            @DonDrapersAcidTrip
            Because they used Unreal engine and that engine has its own restrictions and limitations even if you use it to make the game exclusively for PC.

          • Contrafibularity says:

            KenTWOu; You’re so full of shit I don’t even know where to start. Everything which you say was improved makes no sense whatsoever. The “hubs”, one of the few promising new things they tried to do in TDS, were so hampered by all the console limitations they were essentially little more than a few connected streets with a handful of explorable locations. Level design and structure improved? I don’t know what you’re smoking but at a guess you never played T1&2, or perhaps you have a very shoddy memory. Implying they’re monochrome is false and more than a little daft considering it made way for a cartoony blue-moon palette in TDS which was done because TVs couldn’t actually do Thief’s levels of darkness without console gamers thinking their TVs were broken.

            Days, factions?! What are you on about? Thief 1 and 2 had the tightest pacing and structure any game could wish for. Not a single person on this earth except a troll would argue in favour of the horrible TDS/IW faction system. Factions are there to make the game world interesting, detailed and diverse, not so you can watch an allegiance meter go up or down after a mission.

            “Level after level” as opposed to what? You’ve just described almost every game in existence? Thief 1 & 2 let you actually explore The City with a far greater degree of freedom than those tiny little street hubs in TDS do. And yes, all of these faults are due to the limitations of the Xbox’s tiny 64MB memory (for geometry AND textures!) because UEng2 was more than capable of doing complex architecture and textures on PCs with more than ten times the memory, as any reasonable thinking person would expect. Saying “nuh-uh” doesn’t invalidate the point. You know damn well the TDS team were limited to the Xbox’s hardware because they couldn’t just make two entirely different games (unfortunately) each designed specifically for their respective audiences and technical capabilities (although in retrospect that’s precisely what they should’ve done, bugger Microsoft). If you read and watch the TDS and Looking Glass interviews (check youtube there is lots and lots about/with Looking Glass/Ion Storm) you will see them admit to this much, regarding both Thief Deadly Shadows and Invisible War. Of course they’re too big to place blame on anyone but themselves.

            You must at least play Thief 1 & 2 before talking all this trash about TDS being better. It might’ve been really impressive to you if it was the first Thief game you ever played, no doubt, but for the rest of us TDS was taking several tens of steps backwards compared to the first games. No person who played the Thief series in their right mind could think TDS was anything but Thief adapted to mass-audiences with mass-sensibilities made to run on a glorified DVD player with a controller so ill-suited to the task it destroyed the very mechanic most central to a Thief game: movement. And yes I would’ve much preferred movement to have actually WORKED over seeing characters casting a shadow, if it would come to a false dilemma such as that. There’s a reason certain games are first-person, just as there’s a reason some films are animated and a reason some paintings don’t strive for realism. Sadly, for all their talents, even the best game designers sometimes just don’t understand what makes their own games so good.

            I’m not saying all multi-platform gaming is an illusion, just that not all games by far lend themselves to being gang-banged by a plethora of forms, control schemes, screen sizes, hardware and so on. As Ion Storm found out the hard way with Thief Deadly Shadows and Invisible War.

      • napoleon_in_rags says:

        ‘Ooooooh, they said console! That means the games gonna suck!’

        Some of the people on here are just ridiculous. You realize Thief was a console game, don’t you?

  3. sockpuppetclock says:

    All I can think is that he’s wearing full Joker make-up under the bandana

    • Ultra Superior says:

      He looks like the lovechild of Joker and Batman. The Harlequeer

      SHAME ON YOU THIEF 4 ART DIRECTOR. Oh god where’s JBB when you need him, ey? !!!

  4. ass wasp says:

    Devs said they wanted him to be less gothic so they gave him eyeshadow?
    I’m so tired of them taking game heroes from my childhood/early teens and ruining them.
    I think the main problem is back then these guys were cool because of what they did in the game, Garrett was a bad-ass master thief, nowdays they try and make the character ‘cool’ before the game’s even released, with the new devil may cry so much marketing was focused around the new dante people ignored the game.

    • Echo Black says:

      Seems like the devs don’t know the difference between Gothic art/gothic overtones and “mall goth”

      • solidsquid says:

        I thought it must have been the context and there was just a misunderstanding. Nope, they genuinely are using the term “gothic” in relation to a Thief game, but referencing mall goths instead of historical gothic

    • iniudan says:

      Actually eye shadow is a good idea for a thief sneaking around in the dark, it reduce reflective surface on the visage, which can help reduce glare (it minor, but when you life depend on it, you get every freaking minor help you can get) and help with the concealment when not in total darkness. (covered surface been small enough to not be clear, and actually help with the fuzziness of visage form, in low light environment, unlike what follow)

      Trouble is that Gareth cloth are way too dark for the concealment part of it to have any point, has such dark cloth make concealment in dim light impossible and still easy to identify in anything but almost complete darkness, if eye are adapted, has black is the clearest shade of gray.

      • KevinLew says:

        Professional athletes–who obviously care about glare and being able to see the best possible–use eye black only on their cheeks. They do not circle their eyes with it to look like an owl. Garrett’s design is clearly a style choice by the developers to make him look more “cool” (in their minds), and there’s no actual functionality to it. He’s also got most of his face covered, so there’s really no point in eye black.

        Another “style” design decision is to have Garrett wear incredibly tight clothing. Logically this would make him have less mobility and make it worse if he had to fight. The only reason for this would be if you had to crawl through tight spaces and you were worried about your clothing getting caught on something or hitting tripwires. But the last time I saw Thief, I don’t remember the game being about crawling through air ducts (like in Half-Life 2), and I don’t remember him having to gyrate his body through a laser tripwire system (like in the movie Entrapment).

        • Ich Will says:

          Did you really just say that logically, if one were to wear lighter clothing, one’s mobility would be reduced?

          I’ll assume you’ve now edited it for clarity…

          • KevinLew says:

            No, I didn’t say “light” clothing; I said “tight” clothing. Also, I might point out that whatever advantage having form-fitting clothing would have provided, it’s nullified by wearing his cape. It’s like Garrett was designed by Marvel Comics.

  5. Premium User Badge

    Tom De Roeck says:

    for fucks sake. rebootaganza is neverending. Are they so out of ideas they cant just make a new game in the same universe?

    Or has gareth become too powerful?

    • Azazel says:

      Exactly this.

    • RobinOttens says:

      Wait, so is this really a full reboot then? Because what you’re describing is exactly what they did with Deus Ex, tell a new story in the same world, and I can’t imagine they’d do anything different on this one.

    • Rao Dao Zao says:

      What about… making a new franchise entirely?

      Gosh, no, silly me, that’ll never work.

      • Prime says:

        You’re on a thread about Thief complaining that they should actually be making something completely new?

        It really is tough to please PC gamers sometimes.

        • Runs With Foxes says:

          You’re on a thread about Thief complaining that they should actually be making something completely new?

          Yes? Where else would he be complaining about it?

          • Prime says:

            How about in his own head? Pointless comment is stupid and pointless.

          • Rao Dao Zao says:

            Well, if it’s, by the looks of it, not going to be a lot like Thief anyway, is there any point in calling it Thief? It could be called something else, be something else, have a new setting… It doesn’t have to twist an existing franchise that is, at this point, perhaps best left to lie.

            There is room in our hearts for more than one sneak ‘em up franchise. I’m not saying they should make a totally different game, I’m saying they should make new fiction rather than trampling all over something well-established.

          • smb says:

            That “don’t give me this, give me THAT” attitude is completely arbitrary. Now discussing how well a game will appeal to its intended audience overall… that’s a different story.

          • Josh W says:

            Thief is a brilliant name for a stealth game. To have IP access to the word as being distinctive of your games and a good set of design basics to work off is a great foundation. Game franchises can be about the feel of the game as much as their setting, especially when the original games play so well.

            On the other hand, thief had awesome worldbuilding, and I’m not sure their taking advantage of that.

        • JFS says:

          There are no RPS posts about Eidos’ really interesting new IP & game (because they don’t make one), so I guess he’s about right to post here, on the “Eidos’ really strange take on an old IP” post.

      • GameCat says:

        Are you mad? Modern customers would NEVER buy anything new that isn’t Far Cry of Manshooter: Modern Warfacefield Ops Raider Crysis or at least “it’s like Skyrim with XYZ”.

      • pyroj says:

        Look at it this way the thief community could possible have a new fancy engine to mod for that people who liked thief we’ll buy irregardless of quality, no offense intended I’m one of those people.

    • brulleks says:

      Garrett, not Gareth.

      (I wouldn’t mind so much if my own detestable real name wasn’t Gareth…)

  6. Jimmy Z says:

    It’s not the goth thing that bothered me (although I find it hilarious that they allegedly tried to tone down the gothiness and then they give him fucking mascara), but his talks about appealing to “broader audience”, “modern console gamers” and “more action oriented gameplay”.

    Maybe it’s just me, but that kind of talk is a huge red flag for me when it comes to gaming these days, as that usually leads to QTE-heavy “press A to be awesome” – gameplay, shitty cover-system, tacked on shitty multiplayer modes, regenerating health and shitty launch day DLC, along with all the other bullshit found in “modern games”.

    • RobinOttens says:

      Eh, they made Deus Ex Human Revolution play like a more accesible, console-oriented game with marketing and designs aimed at a broad market. That worked out fine.

      Though it’s good to set your expectations low I guess, I don’t have too high hopes for this one yet either.

      • Runs With Foxes says:

        That worked out fine.

        Objection.

        • solidsquid says:

          Sustained

        • RobinOttens says:

          Oh come on. Human Revolution wasn’t as good as the original, but it was a pretty great game in it’s own right. Heck, that's exactly what thief 3 was compared to the earlier two games.

          That is subjective fact! >.</

          • Vorphalack says:

            Subjective fact.

            We have sunk to a new low.

          • RProxyOnly says:

            ‘Subjective’ fact?

            WHAT THE FUCK?

          • Premium User Badge

            particlese says:

            My guess is concise commentary on internet opinions, given what was said, plus the punctuation, plus the emoticon.

            And I agree. :P

          • analydilatedcorporatestyle says:

            RobinOttens you oxymoron you!

          • RobinOttens says:

            Aw. I’ve never been called an oxymoron before. Thanks!

    • eightballfreek says:

      …did we just become best friends? {:¬3

    • FurryLippedSquid says:

      “Maybe it’s just me, but that kind of talk is a huge red flag for me when it comes to gaming these days, as that usually leads to QTE-heavy “press A to be awesome” – gameplay, shitty cover-system, tacked on shitty multiplayer modes, regenerating health and shitty launch day DLC, along with all the other bullshit found in “modern games”.”

      To be fair, this is exactly what I thought about Tomb Raider. But bugger me if it isn’t actually a very good game. There are so many things I should despise it for, 3rd person, waist-high wall cover system, bullet time, QTEs, too many cut scenes, take-down moves, fast travel, area hubs and largely pointless upgrades, the list goes on. All of these things were probably hung above every developer’s desk, handed down from the boardroom. An executive decision to fucking conform.

      But fuck me, when it’s done this well, I can forgive it all.

      • Jimmy Z says:

        Funny you should mention Tomb Raider, as it was exactly the game I was thinking of as the most recent example of this shittification of great games. I really hated the fuck out of that game due to its’ desire to constantly wrench away controls from the player, boombastic action set pieces filled with falling, moaning and explosions, where there is very little actual gaming and a lot of just watching going on, the horrible clash in tone between the constant cut scenes and actual gameplay… I could go on and on.

        • FurryLippedSquid says:

          I have to admit, it’s not my usual sort of game but I’ve always been quietly envious of PS3 owners and their Uncharteds. That itch has been scratched in some spectacular style. I thought it was an absolute blast, but I don’t want every game to end up like it.

      • Eclipse says:

        I find the new Tomb Raider to be an average game, but as a Tomb Raider, it’s a very shitty one. Even Underworld was a lot better

    • onodera says:

      The new Garrett looks like he’s going to run around taking everyone down like fully inked Jason from Far Cry 3.

      • Premium User Badge

        Cinek says:

        This ink actually made any difference? I don’t recall using it any time through the game unless I was forced to upgrade by the game mechanics (eg. intro, where you can’t continue without selecting something) – and still: it wasn’t difficult at all. Easily could kill large groups of enemies (these big metal guys were annoying perhaps, but that’s the only thing. Even guns on vehicles were silly one-shot thing)

        • onodera says:

          Well, yes, it allows you to kill several goons with one QTE. This is what I imagine this new Garrett will do.
          Five guards run into a room, chasing after Goth-Garret. He drops from the ceiling, killing one with his steel-soled boots, sticks two daggers into two other guards, kicks one of them bearing a torch into the fourth one, setting him on fire, grabs the sword of the other one and throws it at the final guard, pinning him to the wall.
          * Achievement unlocked: Combo Master: kill five guards in a row *
          Goth-Garret approaches the target treasure, clopping with his steel soles.
          * A cutscene starts. As soon as Goth-Garret raises the treasure, the whole mansion is awakened by the burglar alarm. There are red lights everywhere, and new guards run out of the barracks (that you have already “tidied up” ten minutes ago). *
          Goth-Garrett runs directly towards the exit, headshotting everyone with his bow. As soon as he reaches the exit
          * Another cutscene starts. The captain of the mansion guards appears, wearing a padded helmet so you cannot blackjack him. Other guards on the ramparts are cheering him on. *
          Goth-Garrent uses the environment to push the captain into the fire three times and uses a QTE to finish him off by stabbing his twin daggers into the eye-slit.
          * Yet another cutscene starts. Goth-Garret slowly leaves the courtyard, the burning corpse of the captain behind him, no one else dares challenge him. *

          • Frank says:

            Oh, god. This is why I wait for action games to hit $5 before trying them. I think I first played the scene you describe in the 90s.

          • seamoss says:

            Thanks for getting me to giggle like an idiot at my monitor – I needed it this morning!

            Goth-Garret approaches the target treasure, clopping with his steel soles.

            Wahahahahahaha!!!

  7. ProtoMan says:

    He looks like a generic ninja protagonist.
    I was fine with his design before…

  8. Hoaxfish says:

    PC Gamer picked up this lovely line:

    We wanted to bring in more for the modern audience of today’s console market.

    There’s also another quote about “we wanted people to be able to not be a thief”, but I can’t find it at the moment.

    edit: found the other quote:

    We want you to play as a thief, but we don’t want to force you to play as a thief” – Stephane Roy, Producer of Thief

    (it’s from Game Informer magazine)

    • gravity_spoon says:

      Yeah that is why I said RIP in my comment above. This franchise is finished IMHO if this is what the developers have set out to do.

      • Premium User Badge

        AndrewC says:

        Well, technically it has been dead for a decade, so this is the most life we’ve seen in Thief for ages.

        What is more likely to lead to the making of another Thief game with a design you approve of – them making a game, or them not making a game?

        • gravity_spoon says:

          I will not lie that I didn’t want another Thief game. However, if it comes at the cost of “streamlining” and/or “more mainstream appeal” then I’d rather see them not resurrected at all. Sure every developer wants to make money and looking at the farce that current Simcity is, probably succeeds at it too. Just that I will not buy a bastardized game like that.

        • Hoaxfish says:

          It’s fairly likely that them making one game is independant of them making another game that’s “more like the originals”. If this is popular (and carrying the Thief name it probably will be) then we’ll see more of the same, if not… it’ll be Invisible War (essentially a lost decade).

          At the moment it sounds like a Deus Ex game wearing a Dishonored skin. Not to say you can’t stealth in either of those games, but neither of them are quite as much about stealth as Thief was.

          • Premium User Badge

            Cinek says:

            For me it sounds EXACTLY like Dishonoured in every way. Perhaps they’ve put different skin on characters and items… but that’s as far as the differences go.

        • Pemptus says:

          I know it’s not the same kind of “life”, but the fan mission market for Thief 1+2 is still nice and thriving on the TTLG forums. The quality of some levels is astounding.

        • Ergates_Antius says:

          Just because my grandmother is totally dead now, doesn’t mean I’d be cool with a necromancer resurrecting her into a Zombie. Even if it is a bit closer to being alive than she currently is now.

      • Prime says:

        The thing to keep in mind about the previous Thief games is that they didn’t sell all that well. It’s a critically honoured franchise, beloved by its fans, but is still a huge risk for any developer. Naturally, any new dev team/pubisher is going to want to make it appeal to the mass market by any means possible, meaning they couldn’t just recreate what came before without some fresh interpretation.

        They keep claiming that this game is going to keep the essence of what made Thief great but only time will tell if they’re looking at it the same way we do. So far…I’m not greatly encouraged that this is the case.

        • Runs With Foxes says:

          Here’s a wild idea, assuming you’re right: How about not calling it Thief then? I mean if it didn’t sell very well and doesn’t have much influence with the console crowd they’re targeting, what’s the point of twisting an IP into something it never was? What’s the fucking point?

          • Prime says:

            It depends on how much they’re changing, obviously. If there’s enough there from the old games then it deserves the name. If not, it doesn’t.

            Also, look at it this way: if it comes down to a choice between an old IP that has a collection of hard-core fans, meaning the IP has proven power to attract people, that you might be able to reinterpret in such a way that it attracts even more fans….or a brand new, unproven IP that you might spend millions on for it to fail completely, then you might choose to develop the older IP as the option with less risk. Think of the all the free press and excitement XCOM was able to ride on just by being called XCOM.

          • Bhazor says:

            Do you mean the sequel Firaxis made or the shooter that everybody hated to the point it went into hiding like an FBI informant.

            Or perhaps you mean Syndicate which was met with a universal “Why the hell did they call it that?”.

        • Ergates_Antius says:

          I’m normally strongly in the “Lets give them a chance and see what comes” camp when it comes to sequels by different dev teams.

          However, the picture at the top of the page strong suggest they don’t have a clue what made Thief great.

    • Ridnarhtim says:

      What really worried me (just from this particular video) is the sentence after that, actually.

      “He’s now in the game doing more action move.”

      • Prime says:

        Yeah, I caught that as well.

        This could work if they mean he’s going to have to be more agile to get into buildings, etc. I wouldn’t mind some Tomb Raider style hi-jinks along ledges, or some of the athletics that Sam Fisher did trying to stay unseen inside buildings (split-jumps, etc). That fits with my image of Garrett’s abilities, and is why I quite liked the wall-climbing gloves of the third game when lots of other fans hated them.

      • Premium User Badge

        El_MUERkO says:

        I thought the most shocking part was when they said:

        “We wanted to take an old franchise none of our target market will remember, then destroy it to suit that market while at the same time dipping our cheesy balls in the mouths of everyone who remembers the franchise with fondness. I haven’t bathe in days, it’s like a camels vag down there.”

        • gravity_spoon says:

          I think they will repeat that in their EULA too which will sell you a license instead of a game. Not to mention that a bazillion people will buy it and half of them will whine knowing full well what was coming.

    • solidsquid says:

      Possibly they’re thinking along the lines of Dishonoured. Technically you’re an assassin, but it’s possible to achieve your goals without actually killing anyone. My wishful thinking side is suggesting they might be setting it up so you can achieve the missions without actually stealing anything for maximum stealthiness (copying a document rather than taking it, duplicating keys rather than stealing them, etc)

    • Grargh says:

      Oh my.

      Between “We don’t want to force you to play as a thief” and “Main objectives will be highlighted by an on-screen navigation beacon”, I don’t see how this is going to be anything like Thief. Plotting your own way through the levels and being totally unfit for open combat was kind of the core of the experience for me.

      • Hoaxfish says:

        “Here’s a sword… but you’re going to have a very hard time winning a fight with it.”

        A nice bit of design (fighting instead of stealth is a bad idea, but it wasn’t instant gameover).

        But now… he has “Takedowns”.

        • Ich Will says:

          I agree with you, but were we playing the same thief? In theory you weren’t supposed to be able to take on guards and this was how I played, but you could take on 5 or 6 at a time because their AI couldn’t cope with circle strafing!

    • Screamer says:

      I don’t get it, what’s the point of resurrecting franchise, if you are going to change everything about it and piss off the fans that should have been a shoe in for a sale?

      Why not give it a different name?

      • Prime says:

        1) It’s still too early to say if the product called Thief is too dissimilar from the old games to not deserve the name.

        2) [copied from response to someone else in thread]: if it comes down to a choice between an old IP that has a collection of devoted, passionate fans, meaning the IP has proven power to attract people, that you might be able to reinterpret in such a way that it attracts even more fans….or a brand new, unproven IP that you might spend millions on for it to fail completely, then you might choose to develop the older IP as the option with less risk. Think of the all the free press and excitement XCOM was able to ride on just by being called XCOM.

        People always seem aghast that big publishers don’t develop new IP each time when it’s absolutely proven that the one thing big publishers hate doing is taking a risk on new IP.

    • KenTWOu says:

      I found another quote: And yes, you can complete the game without killing anybody – Garrett is a Master Thief, not a killing machine!

    • Premium User Badge

      VelvetFistIronGlove says:

      The full quote is:

      We want you to play as a thief, but we don’t want to force you to play as a thief. You can play the game aggressively if you want, but it won’t be easy.

      Which doesn’t sound so different to any of the previous Thief games, does it now?

      • joebucksvoice says:

        No it doesn’t.

        I hate the idea of rebooting things, except my computer, but, these guys did an OK job with Human Revolution. Clearly they were trying to remain faithful to the original Deus Ex.

        With one decent game under their belt, and really not much information to go by, I am willing to give Eidos Montreal the benefit of the doubt before I start shouting about things.

        • Hoaxfish says:

          As far as I understand it, the team who did DE:HR is actually different from the team doing this… though they are both in the same “office”.

  9. Yargh says:

    the funniest thing about all these articles is the contrast with that screenshot.

    It can take a while to realise that they are making him less Goth than in the picture instead of the shot representing the ‘less Goth’ Garrett.

    Cue so many comments along the lines of ‘This is less Goth?!? Dear Lord, what was he like before?’

    (at least I really really hope that is what is going on because, well ‘Dear Lord, what…’)

    • Ridnarhtim says:

      I do hope you’re right, but I’m pretty sure this is the less goth one. DLWWHLB?

    • Davie says:

      I can only assume that before he was completely indistinguishable from Dream of the Endless. But with more tactical corset.

      • Splynter says:

        Sidestepping any consideration of the Thief franchise, a protagonist who looks like Dream would be pretty awesome. Hell, Gaiman + video game could be great.

  10. Glottis1 says:

    Is that make up under her eyes?

  11. kikito says:

    Eye makeup. Batman could. Teal’c could. You can’t.

  12. Echo Black says:

    That’s…Not the “gothic” the original series did. This is the modern-day subculture

    Why would Garrett ever wear makeup?

    • Premium User Badge

      basilisk says:

      So that you can’t see him in the dark, obv.

    • Prime says:

      Baffling that they seem to have got the word ‘gothic’ confused. They showed one picture of the old Garrett with heavily shadowed eyes and concluded that instead of shadow this was eye make up? Do they have any other old reference shots of him wearing make up? No. Because there aren’t any. Because. He. DIDN’T. Jesus, it’s like Joel Schumacher reinterpreting nipples-and-neon Batman all over again.

      I really hate to be negative about anything but in this case I’m pretty fucking annoyed. If they can’t get this right then what the hell are we to make of their claims that “This is definitely Thief”. Add this nonsense to the already incendiary comments made about tailoring the game to appeal to console audiences and I’m rapidly running out of hope that this will be anything like the old games. I hope I’m wrong, I really do, but right now I just can’t see much of the classic Thief DNA in it at all. :(

      Sorry to be emotive about this one but it’s possibly my favourite game franchise of all time. There’s a lot of love there.

  13. sinister agent says:

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to black up (ooh er) all the visible skin, rather than have an obvious face-shaped white glow lurking suspiciously near your silver candlesticks?

    • Prime says:

      Damn. Was just writing the exact same sentiment when I saw yours there. I fully agree – blacking up would be a very understandable thing for a master thief to do, just like not wearing boots that clang on metal surfaces or clop on polished marble.

      The current eye-make up situation just looks daft.

    • Ridnarhtim says:

      It’s a reboot, they could have just made Garrett bla- African American.

  14. mikmanner says:

    He does look quite silly, like a zombie wearing a cloak.

  15. tobecooper says:

    Oh, such a pity that they gave up on the black nails. After all, everybody knows that thieves paint their nails before putting on gloves! It makes so much sense. Looking glamorous even if people won’t see!

    • solidsquid says:

      Glove, singular. They couldn’t *possibly* be seen wearing *two* gloves

  16. Ridnarhtim says:

    He keeps using that word, “gothic” – I do not think it means what he thinks it means.

    Gothic is what the original game had – a sort of steam-punk gothic feel to the whole game. What he means is goth, kids with pale skin with black nails, eyeliner, hair and clothes. The latter really appeals to no-one.

    • woodsey says:

      But… doesn’t that whole look come from vampires and such? And I’m pretty sure they’ve featured in a gothic novel or two.

  17. Inigo says:

    The game will have 4 different movement speeds: run, walk, sneak and CRAAAWWWWWLIING

  18. Serenegoose says:

    So here’s what I’m wondering. Garrett was a fairly understated character. He had a dry wit, he wasn’t super young, and everything about him spoke practicality. Get in, get out with the loot, fence the loot.

    This guy is a generic ninja who wears a lot of eye makeup. If they can’t get the simplest things right – the visual feel of their character (it’s not like there’s a shortage of visual reference) – then why should I trust them to get the rest right?

    If you call someone Garrett, but change all of the characteristics of Garrett, what’s the function? I can only think of one, and it’s not one anybody should be proud of.

    • Rosveen says:

      Exactly. I have absolutely nothing against the gothic (for lack of a better word) look itself, but when you’re making a game about Garrett, you should make sure that the protagonist actually looks and behaves like Garret. And he didn’t wear makeup.

      If they want to redesign his appearance, they’d be better off creating a brand new protagonist. I wouldn’t mind as long as the game plays like Thief – I like Garrett, but what I really want out of this game is the gameplay I enjoy, not the protagonist.

    • Snidesworth says:

      I think the real litmus test is whether he’ll be voiced by Stephen Russell.

      • Necroscope says:

        If they can’t hire Stephen Russell, I’d prefer as my first choice Zed/Bob Goldthwait from Police Academy

    • Outsider says:

      Couldn’t have explained my misgivings any better than that.

  19. Carighan Maconar says:

    Can’t I simply… you know… play a thief?

    Like in Thief 1-3?

    Do I have to play Corvo-Garrett now? Corvo is an assassin, Garrett is a thief, don’t mix them!

    • Brun says:

      Even Bethesda knows that the Thieves’ Guild and the Dark Brotherhood are different things!

  20. Davie says:

    See, I like the old Garrett as he appeared in the cutscenes, kind of a scruffy-looking nondescript guy whose only notable feature was the massive quantities of gear he had strapped on him.

    I feel like they heard “Master Thief” and thought HE IS THE PERSONIFICATION OF SHADOW, ONE WITH THE NIGHT when in reality (i.e. the previous games) Garrett is just a regular dude who happens to be really good at staying unnoticed. More Aragorn, less Batman.

    • Prime says:

      …kind of. In addition to his natural talents Garrett did benefit from years of quasi-mystical Keeper training as well. That’s not very “Joe Average”.

    • tobecooper says:

      Oh yes, looking to Aragorn for inspiration would be a lot more appropriate for a Thief game. And instead they somehow decided to look at the Joker and the Crow. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

    • rapier17 says:

      This does indeed seem to be how it’s looking – I liked Garrett for being a non-descript fellow who is out to steal stuff but keeps on getting caught up in the Prophecies. What I don’t want to see is him become some ‘ninja’ who’s ‘totally awesome’ because he’s the, as you so eloquently put it, “…PERSONIFICATION OF SHADOW, ONE WITH THE NIGHT”. I play the old Thief games for the stealth, not for the action and I really don’t want there to be super-awesome kill moves or QTEs, I just want to sap guards over the head, hide the bodies and steal everything in sight whilst using water arrows to extinguish torches, moss arrows to creep across loud floors and rope arrows to climb.

    • Shazbut says:

      Exactly. Why a superhero?

      Looking at this whole thing optimistically, I’m going to imagine it’s like the way parents will make sugar sandwiches for kids in order so that they may one day start to eat proper sandwiches.

    • Premium User Badge

      maninahat says:

      Here’s my point; if they are going to redesign Garret’s appearance, why do such a shitty job of it? Look at his outfit – he has more straps, belts and laces than Final Fantasy’s Lulu. I know that standard fantasy fair requires all thieves and assassins to wear over-elaborate strappy outfits, but this is ridiculous.It’s like Assassin’s Creed 3 again.

      • Grargh says:

        It’s actually the same artist who designed this and Altair, so little wonder about the similarity.

    • analydilatedcorporatestyle says:

      Maybe everyone wears emo makeup in this new Garrett world. So on his way to reconnoitre/missions/fence goods/buy makeup he has to ponce about like a big purple hat to avoid standing out.

      Thief $ ‘Garrett’s adventures in the city(Glansville) of Goth assassins’

  21. CiderPunk says:

    Smacks of teeny vampire crap if you ask me. Garret had the same personality as Gordon Freeman, none, so you imposed your own on his actions and that’s part of what made the (first two) games great.

    • Serenegoose says:

      You’re aware that Garrett spoke and interjected his own narration right the way through the first 2 thief games, right.

      • Premium User Badge

        basilisk says:

        And, as Yahtzee recently quoted in his column on Dishonored, Garrett’s narration includes gems like this: “I’ve always equated ‘feelings’ with getting caught: they both get in the way of my money.” (briefing for the first mission of Thief 2). The guy has more personality than ten average video game protagonists put together.

    • Grargh says:

      Teeny vampire crap was my first thought, too. It’s exactly the kind of character self-centered 13 year-olds create for forum RPGs. He’ll have a pentagram tattooed on his palm, write awkward suicidal poems and swing a daikatana.

  22. zain3000 says:

    I’m going to go crawl into my late-90′s gamer shell now… if anyone needs me, I’ll be playing System Shock 2.

    Ahhh, the Many sings to me…

  23. Premium User Badge

    DrScuttles says:

    Back when Thief and Thief 2 came out, I was all moody and gothy. But that was years ago. Get with the times, Garrett!
    I watched The Crow recently; it’s one of those that was a slice of fried gold in your memory but doesn’t quite hold up when you see it again. Or maybe it’s just me.

    • Zorn says:

      Well, you’re at least not completely only. I watched The Crow again, some time ago
      and just noticed how different I remembered it, when twenty was still an age, you
      thought, was aeons away.

  24. Bhazor says:

    Bwhahahahahaha! Turn around I think you’ve left the Hot Topic tag on.

    No seriously you got me, now where’s the real character design.

  25. bitbot says:

    Horrible. I think I just heard thousands of Thief fans scream out in agony. I’m not even a fan of the series (having only played thief 3) but even I hate it.

    I doubt this will be a repeat of Eidos Montreal’s previous success with Deus Ex HR.

  26. yabonn says:

    Overall, this is looking bad. It’s not complicated to put some dark clothes and a blackjack on a dude, and let the game do the rest. If the art direction had some balls, they’d even try for hard : making the plain dark clothes and tool belt interesting.

    But no, let’s aim for KratosCrow.

  27. Premium User Badge

    Stense says:

    Can’t say I mind how they update the look of Garrett. I just hope that Stephen Russell is back to voice Garrett.

  28. zeroskill says:

    People just love to complain about literally everything these days.

    • Prime says:

      It’s a sign of passion. We care. Don’t you?

    • analydilatedcorporatestyle says:

      I’m glad your happy with ‘any old shit’ then, lucky you.

      Do you take part in games ‘focus groups’ by any chance?

  29. Premium User Badge

    RedViv says:

    And the Subculture Wars continue…

  30. bigjig says:

    Well I’m going to kind an open mind until I see some gameplay but the Thief fan in me doesn’t hold out much hope for this one :(

  31. Turkey says:

    I’m more worried about the stealth system not being up to snuff. I’ve read some rumours on the TTLG forums that they’re dropping the light crystal system in favour of a simplified line-of-sight one ala Dishonored.

  32. Premium User Badge

    CelticPixel says:

    They talk a lot about wanting to ensure he didn’t look too goth, but he looks really, really goth. If you had to describe his new look in one word, that word would be ‘goth’.

    However, the in-game screenshots look great, and it sounds to me like the writer gets what Garrett is about. Ultimately I’ll judge this game when I’m finally playing it. Also, I respect EM as a studio and I want them to succeed.

    • solidsquid says:

      “Does he look like he could be a vampire. A non-sparkly one?”
      “Yes?”
      “Too mall goth. Try again”

    • Prime says:

      I’m not sure the Narrative Director does get it, actually.

      “It’s not about the money anymore. It’s the fact that he feels more alive when stealing something that no-one else can take”

      No matter what Garrett was confronted with before it was always with one eye (ho ho) on the financials, or doing what was necessary to get interfering people out of his business so he could get back to quietly living the life he wanted to live. He took pride in his work, certainly, but it never dominated his personality, and I won’t accept that change without some serious justification, so far absent.

      • Serenegoose says:

        As has been quoted in the thread….. ‘I’ve always equated ‘feelings’ with ‘getting caught.’ – Garrett.

        That this new Garrett is just a thrillseeker isn’t just taking a ‘new look’ at the protagonist – it’s writing him into the very opposite person. It’s like if they rebooted batman and he didn’t care about killing people.

      • Soberbandana says:

        Yesterday I listened to part 9 of the Looking Glass podcast with Terri Brosius and Dan Thron (http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/) who were two of the people responsible for shaping the story of Thief and Garret’s personality. They were pretty much saying the same thing as you. Garret was a professional who did not really enjoy stealing things, but he was good at it. He certainly did not steal for the thrill of it. So I do not think the new developers really understand him as a character. They should listen to the podcast.
        However, in the same podcast. Terri does mention that she wrote Thief 3 in a way that would ensure that the Garret character arc would be over and that any future Thief titles would require a “new” Garret. Perhaps that is what Eidos Montreal are doing.

        • analydilatedcorporatestyle says:

          The rent is due, I need to go and do a job.

          As opposed to, I’m a complex character and you the modern gamer will enjoy the narrative as there isn’t much gameplay to be had.

          :-(

    • Premium User Badge

      emertonom says:

      And if I used two words, they would be “count chocula.” The resemblance is uncanny. http://www.derok.net/countchocula/images/count%20chocula%20box%20old.jpg

      Edit: It occurs to me that my avatar may be undermining my point here…

  33. popedoo says:

    Oh my god! We now live in a world where regular news and updates for Thief 4 are appearing.

    *wipes tear from his eye*

  34. SanguineAngel says:

    I think I will just play Thief 1 again

  35. Premium User Badge

    Surlywombat says:

    Ahh, remember the good old days when everyone was just happy a new thief game was a thing? The good old days back before we had a new pope, when the S4 was a glint in Samsung’s eyes. You know, last week.

    • ResonanceCascade says:

      A lot of people sit around all day waiting for something to be mad about so they can go whine on the internet.

      Me? I’ll be off playing The Dark Mod and grinning at how much great Theif-y content is still delivered on a regular basis.

  36. Shazbut says:

    What worries me is that Nicholas Cantin didn’t appear to know that it would trigger any upset for him to say he wants the main character to be more mainstream and action orientated to fit into today’s market.

  37. Artista says:

    Damn Noob Saibot is looking great.

  38. Premium User Badge

    oceanclub says:

    Ugh, is that artist’s impression meant to be Garrett? When did he go from a rugged wisecracking thief to what look like a psycho goth?

    P.

  39. sonson says:

    I can’t wait to get this piece of Dishonored DLC

    Also, Thief isn’t about Garret at all. Or rather, the essenece of the Thief games. I would have thought was pretty obvious to a fan in a position to think it through to the extent of making a Thief game.

  40. J_C says:

    Oh gawd, why does he have a horrible black eye makeup?

  41. Citrus says:

    GOTY.

    Just like DeusEx: HR and Dishonored. RPS will love it.

  42. StarchildHypocrethes says:

    “The response to this, particularly the use of the dread term ‘mainstream’, saw fans (you know where from) howling about dumbing down and whatnot.”

    Having read this articles comments, I now actually do know where from.

  43. RProxyOnly says:

    I want this game to be made and I want it to be every bit as shitty as we think it’ll be.

    I want Yahtzee to have an apoplectic fit.

    • woodsey says:

      Pretty much sums up what’s wrong with three-quarters of the commenters on the site.

      • RProxyOnly says:

        Oh I’m sorry.

        Were you expecting me to have a real opinion about this obvious disaster area.?

        • woodsey says:

          “Obvious disaster area”.

          We only knew it still existed a week ago. Now they’ve done one interview. There’s being hesitant, and then there’s being an obtuse, melodramatic fanboy who’d rather the things fail instead of actually prove themselves to be good.

          DX:HR had a boat-load more concerning statements made about it when it was announced, and that didn’t exactly turn out bad. Dare I say I thought it was great. Although I’m sure you’re the type who’ll insist its developers had sex with your mother and took a crap on your car.

          • ResonanceCascade says:

            Glad there’s still some sense left in the world.

  44. Serenegoose says:

    Additionally, if this is a thief game but they’ve redesigned Garrett to the point of not being Garrett, why can’t it just be a direct sequel? He takes on an apprentice at the end of thief 3. It’s a perfectly serviceable story hook and still lets the original, unfucked Garrett play a role in the story.

  45. Radiant says:

    Goth you say?

  46. Premium User Badge

    Hanban says:

    This just made me all kinds of sad. :(

  47. bill says:

    No. Hang on. That can’t be right. I remember Garrett being cool. This guy looks like an idiot.

  48. Doghaus says:

    That looks shit.

  49. woodsey says:

    Well thank goodness for the clarification. The new design looks fine to me, although in the new screenshots he looked less pale. Maybe the eyeshadow thing is an older design?

    I think the change in body size is the more interesting thing. People have inevitably started bitching about the combination giving him the emo teenager look, but then that’s really what I’d expect a professional thief to look like.

    Still, if we could hold off on the DMC-style bitching just because a character design looks a little different 10 years after the last release, that’d be great.

  50. cunningmunki says:

    Old Garrett was pretty gothy too you know?