Conversion Conversation: Europa Universalis IV

By Adam Smith on August 6th, 2013 at 8:00 pm.

Paradox have uploaded a brief highlight reel from their recent broadcast, in which the save game converter for Europa Universalis IV and Crusader Kings II was discussed. The hosts are Paradox Development Studio manager Johan Andersson and Crusader Kings II lead Henrik Fahraeus, and at one point they fight, Henrik wielding a sword and Johan a lightsaber. These are serious men discussing serious business. The most important piece of information, which I’d missed when reading comments about the feed, is that CK II games can be imported, updating to the correct period, no matter what position they are saved at. For example, save in 1100 and EU IV will automatically advance that game to the fifteenth century and begin. Lots more and a full breakdown of post-release prices for preorder bonuses below.

I feel completely out of the loop because I can’t place what the apparently ‘obvious’ DLC is going to be.

While I force my way back into the loop, take a look at this comprehensive list of post-release prices for preorder content.

Pack descriptions and prices are as follows:

Europa Universalis IV: Digital Extreme Upgrade – $7.99
Stars and Crescent Pack
Horsemen of the Crescent Unit Pack
Conquest of Constantinople Music Pack

Europa Univesalis IV: Pre-order DLC Pack – $6.99
100 Years War Unit Pack
The Purple Phoenix Expansion

Europa Universalis IV: Call to Arms Pack – $3.99
Winged Hussars Pack
National Monuments Pack

Crusader Kings II: Europa Universalis IV converter – $9.99
* copy of Crusader Kings II base game is not included

The wait is nearly over. There may even be a demo by the end of the week.

__________________

« | »

, , .

39 Comments »

  1. Leb says:

    I want a demo!

  2. Discopanda says:

    DAY ONE DLC?!

    …dangit. *retrieves wallet*

    • killias2 says:

      If you pre-order, you’ll get all of that DLC with your pre-order. If not, most of it probably minor. The biggest thing, by far, is the CK2 converter, but you’d need to be a big CK2 fan and interested enough in converting for that to matter. Most people would probably be safe waiting for a sale and picking up the base game, though I preordered the Digital Extreme set or whatever. I loves me some Paradox, and the EU series has always been my favorite. I’m not sure I had a choice, haha.

      • bstard says:

        I’ll buy it all once it’s out and the forums wolfs aint howling. Double karma gain: I wont have sinned with a pre-order, and Paradox got their well deserved extra gold.

  3. rawrty says:

    The purple phoenix is rising. Heh heh.

    • BobbyDylan says:

      You should probably see a doctor about that. Or perhaps a Vet.

  4. MachineCode says:

    Paradox really have become one of the most egregious committers of the modern DLC/Pre-order *bonus* nonsense. My wallet retreats in the face of such flagrant anti-consumer practices. I love your games paradox but you force me to wait until years after release to buy them. After CKII I will never buy another one of their games on release again. At least until they change their policies. I can change my mind if you can.

    Same goes for you Sega. At least CA have the excuse of publisher mandate but as a self publisher though, Paradox has no such defense.

    • Leb says:

      You don’t know Paradox well huh?

      Considering that 90% of the features and bug fixes they add in each expo is given to the community to free, I’ll happily throw money at them for cosmetics and music

      • Cinek says:

        Oh is it now?
        I don’t know how about other games, but in Hearts of Iron 3 patches to fix the game were actually expansion packs that you were forced to buy in order to have the game truly playable.

        • Malarious says:

          It’s been their stance for all products after CK2. So that only includes CK2 and EU4 for now. Every major DLC release (Legacy of Rome, The Old Gods, The Republic, etc) is accompanied by a patch to the main game, which rolls all of the bugfixes and even quite a few features into the base game. The DLC only unlocks ‘special content’ while the patches that accompany them improve the game itself for everyone. If you bought CK2 today, you’d be getting over a year and a half of features and bugfixes. You wouldn’t be able to play as Norse Pagans or Muslims unless you bought the DLC, but many of the other features that’ve been rolled into the game with those expansions would still be there. It’s a drastic departure from their previous stance, which was, as you said, to bundle bugfixes into expansion packs. Their new approach means a standardized multiplayer environment as well, so you can play with someone who doesn’t have all (or any) of the DLC.

          • mike2R says:

            Yeah, I was initially very sceptical of the new DLC policy, but it does seem to be working very well. I’ve not bought a couple of the big CK2 DLCs since I’ve no interest in the things they add (playing republics and Aztec invasions), and I’ve been able to sail happily past them without a problem. I can still use later DLC that I am interested in, I still get patches, and I can use the same mods as everyone else.

            The old Paradox method was almost like software maintenance on enterprise software – you wanted to keep getting patches, you had to keep paying. I never really had a problem with that, considering how many hours I played their games for it was a bargain. But being able to pick and choose and only pay for the features I’m interested in, while still getting patches, is even better.

    • Triplanetary says:

      I don’t know, despite my comment below, I’m not as angry as I feel like I should be about Paradox’s DLC. (I am a tad bit angry about their preorder BS.) The thing with CK2′s DLC is, all of the new systems and mechanics they introduce are patched into the base game for free, so it’s not like they’re withholding basic gameplay updates from non-DLC-buyers.

      Plus, look at it this way: not counting one-off “portrait/unit packs” or civilizations/maps that don’t fundamentally change gameplay, Civilization V now has $60 worth of DLC (except we refer to it in the old-school way, as “expansion packs,” which I’m fine with, don’t get me wrong), while Crusader Kings II has $55 worth of DLC, and I feel like CK2′s DLC is about as substantial in terms of gameplay improvements. And, as stated, those very gameplay improvements get patched into vanilla CK2, while the improvements made by Civ5′s expansions does not. Yet people don’t seem upset about Civ5′s expansions.

      Now, all the $2 unit/face/music packs are pretty BS (confession: I own most of them, but only because I had an Amazon gift card), but they’re also completely unnecessary to the enjoyment of the game.

    • iniudan says:

      Their game are no more expensive then when they used expansion pack model, so I don’t blame them for using the DLC model they are using and the DLC model allow them to not break compatibility for multiplayer.

      But I admit the first day pre-order DLC are annoying.

      • Gormongous says:

        I’m more annoyed that some of their pre-order DLC is exclusive to the stupid pyramid scheme marketing they have going on.

        And yeah, I’m mostly fine with Paradox funding ongoing development with cosmetic DLC, except for most of the portrait packs, which are unspeakably ugly.

    • killias2 says:

      CK2 has gotten more free updates than most games out there. The fact that they are selling access to Republics and Muslim countries seems to irritate people, but they don’t recognize that CK1 -never- gave access to either, even after the full-priced expansion. Heck, the free content for CK2 is better than the (not free) expansion for CK1. You can also ignore -most- DLC. If it’s worth it for you to have the -different- experience of a merchant republic or a pagan norse prince, then you can get the content DLC for quite cheap if you wait for a sale. It’s all around great news, but some people get angry about everything.

      Don’t get me wrong, their policies aren’t perfect, but they’re not terribly malignant either.

      • Gormongous says:

        Too bad that playing a Muslim is broken and unfun, though. It’d be nice if they patched their DLC like they patch their game.

    • MachineCode says:

      A lot of interesting replies here. At the end of the day for me, the DLC and expansions for CKII cost the same as I originally paid for the base game. Looking at the DLC list on Steam its hard for me to justify the price of another entire game (or two considering kickstarter/early access and the like) for what I see. Plus as someone who still keenly remembers the old days of expansion packs I’m not confident that the DLC in question really represents a similar (or greater) value for money, nor is there a way for me to tell, no legitimate way at least. I simply don’t have the disposable income to waste the cost of a full game on stuff that I may only find out afterwards wasn’t worth the price I paid. A much easier thing to adjudicate from a distance I feel with the traditional expansion pack model. Besides there is price problem here; 16 euro for all the CKII DLC music packs? That’s half the price of Payday2, hell its 40% the price of EUIV right now for gods sake.

      The Day1 DLC/pre-order shite on the other hand, has no legitimate justification in my book. It represents either a blatant rip-off or the latest method of enticing people to buy a game long before there are any solid reviews out. In the case of EUIV it feels like the former (there are already let’s plays up on YT), and Rome2 the latter.

      I really wish more gamers would take a step back and really think about this stuff from a distance. We must be among the most blatantly ripped-off categories of consumer out there. I like Paradox as a company, I love their games, but they are not my friend and I simply won’t accept this kind of shake-down. If they don’t want me to wait years until a discount sale of some kind before buying their games then they need to stop trying to squeeze so hard. Its not like they only publish one game a year or anything either. In fact they have several games coming out soon I would like to buy. Not like this though, not like this.

      • Triplanetary says:

        At the end of the day for me, the DLC and expansions for CKII cost the same as I originally paid for the base game

        To reiterate what I said above, why is this bad in the case of CK2, but okay in the case of Civilization III through V? (Assuming, that is, that you’re not also pissed at Civ5. At any rate, I haven’t seen anyone being pissed at Civ5, at least not for having expansion packs.)

        • MachineCode says:

          Oh I was disappointed with Civ V. A friend and I who pay strategy games in multiplayer (including paradox GC games) both bought Civ V on release (we had played Civ IV extensively). We were both extremely disappointed to find how stripped down the game was. Its not simply because it has expansion packs though I think you misunderstand me, after all in an earlier post I advocate for the traditional expansion pack model. Its that Civ V was completely inferior in every way to the previous game with its expansion packs. It required expansion packs to bring it up to snuff. It felt like we were being asked to buy a very slightly tweaked version of Civ IV and its expansion packs all over again. That’s a different situation though and largely subjective (one may not agree with us on the relative quality of the games)

      • djim says:

        As someone who has been playing the game since release, i can say that the game is completely different than the first version. What people keep forgetting is that they released a lot of free content with the dlc’s (not talking about songs/faces etc, major dlc’s). I dislike their day 1 dlc’s though

        • MachineCode says:

          That’s interesting. I wasn’t aware that the game had also been extensively updated outside of its DLC. I’ve not played it since my first games after release. Also don’t get me wrong I feel I got my moneys worth out of the base game (with regard to CKII). I enjoyed it quite a bit and I’m happy with that purchase. Basically I feel like the DLC is overpriced. (Also does anyone else really hate the term DLC? I also still remember watching that re-branding happen to my great disgust)

          • darkath says:

            DLC are often on sale. Norse Pagan DLC was -75% 1 month after release.
            Basically the DLC may seem expensive if you want to get them on day one, but the steam sales more than make up for this the following months.

            As for day one DLC, it’s basically all the content that get developped once the game is undergoing testing and the devs can’t add anymore content during the production phase. Bioware once released a nice chart explaining why day one DLC happens: http://goo.gl/ef0Is7

            It’s basically part of the development cycles to keep dev busy in post-production phase. It’s quite understandable if you ever worked in project-based companies.

          • Deano2099 says:

            If you didn’t play the game other than for a little while after release, you’re probably not the audience for the DLC? You’ve likely barely scratched the surface of what’s in the base game (let alone the free updates since) so you’re not going to need more stuff.

            But Paradox has a lot of loyal fans that pretty much play just Paradox games, you can easily get 100s of hours out of these games, and for them, the DLC that adds just a few more ways to play *is* worth it. Because they’ll get another 50 hours of CK2 out of it.

          • MachineCode says:

            @darkath
            “As for day one DLC, it’s basically all the content that get developped once the game is undergoing testing and the devs can’t add anymore content during the production phase.”

            That’s nonsense. A weak justification by the worst company in existence (EA). That image suggests that the ONLY alternative to Day1 DLC is firing or re-assigning half the Dev team of a game before the thing even comes out. That’s not a philosophy that arises from any real practical or even human place; its exactly the kind of robotic and uncaring profits first thinking that has earned them the title of worst company in america. There are other options.

            Even better the example of Rome 2. If you read back into some of the stuff they said about the game before there was much info (or any screenshots etc) they have long claimed that there would be many factions. At least as many or more than Rome 1. Now the game is near release and we learn that they have lumped a full THIRD of the factions in the game into pre-order bonuses. So if I am unsure about the game and want to wait until its released and there are some reviews out I forfeit a THIRD of the games playable factions. Or have to pay through the nose to buy them.

            @Deano2099
            I have 70 hours playtime on CKII at the time of writing this. Nothing compared to my Dark Souls playtime perhaps but not what I would consider insignificant. That’s totally beside the point anyway. Perhaps you would like to address the pricing concerns I stated in a earlier post? I would really like to hear what someone who supports these kinds of modern business models has to say about that.

            To summarize:
            It is my position that pre-order “bonuses” really only exist to entice people to buy a game before its released so they only have the official claims to go by in making their purchase decision. Or to try and entice them to buy the game at release instead of waiting for one of the now near ubiquitous sales down the road. To do this they pick a selection of already complete content that otherwise would have been available as standard. Pre-order bonuses are NOT there for people that were always going to buy the game anyway. They are there for the people on the fence. I have yet to see or hear any really convincing evidence to the contrary.

    • Dozer says:

      You like the product, but not the publisher’s business strategy. Sounds like – ahem – a paradox.

      • MachineCode says:

        Haha! lovely. Brilliant. +10 internet cookies to you my friend.

  5. Triplanetary says:

    I’m glad I’m preordering, and thus getting most of that DLC for free, but I’m also a little angry that I have to preorder in order to get a chunk of content that’s available at release without having to pay extra money. If I wasn’t genuinely impressed by Paradox’s quality control lately, there’s no way I’d preorder one of their games.

  6. zal says:

    One thing I tend to forget in my DLC rage, is that companies may be driving themselves further into the hole prior to release knowing they’ll get that day 1 DLC pick me up. Its easy to say “oh they’re robbing us because that content technically exists day 1″ but it could be just as possible they’re willing to swim farther out into the endless ocean of red making content for their game and further away from the black that is an actual profit, because they know that some of that content will make them extra money right away (day 1 DLC).

    The problem for me is that its a lot harder to tell between a company that just swam the channel for you, but is counting on you covering their dinner in france (that day 1 DLC) so they can make it back, and a company that just spent all night in a hot tub with hookers and blow, then hired a helicopter to take them to france and told you they just swam the channel and need you to cover dinner (and more hookers and blow).

    I personally don’t mind there being extra content available for a game I love, as long as I know that content would’ve had to wait for an expansion pack if they hadn’t known they could charge me for it day one (and throw additional labor at it, banking on the additional revenue). Its usually really tough to tell if that’s the case, unfortunately.

    EDIT: The way I reconcile it personally. I look at the content, and look at the price. if its my money’s worth, I pay it, if its not, I don’t. As long as the content does what they say it does, I’m not going to find myself ripped off that way.

    • Deano2099 says:

      Exactly. Day One DLC is just another way to charge you extra money for the game. The reasons for that could be good or bad, but that’s all it is, a price increase.

      The nice thing about Day One DLC is that instead of just upping the price for everyone, they say “here, have 95% of the game anyway, if you want the other 5%, it’s 20% extra”.

      Some people think that’s mean, evil, a rip off, unacceptable. These are well-off people who can afford the DLC but don’t want to pay for it. Meanwhile those less well off appreciate it being done this way instead of just a flat price increase across the board.

      • MachineCode says:

        @Deano2099
        “Some people think that’s mean, evil, a rip off, unacceptable. These are well-off people who can afford the DLC but don’t want to pay for it.”

        Argumentum ad hominem.

  7. Bluerps says:

    I’m tempted to directly begin with a game converted from my current CK2 campaign – but I don’t think a game in which most of Europe is reformed norse will be that interesting, because there probably won’t be something like a Viking Martin Luther.

  8. BobbyDylan says:

    I love these vids, all awkwardness included. These aren’t 2 marketing Guru’s, or 2 bullshit artists trying to make a target. They’re the 2 devs, talking about the game they love. I watched the whole live stream, and Johan is the most (perhaps unintentionally) funny Dev I’ve ever seen, but you can tell there’s passion over at Paradox.