Guild Wars 2 School: Super Adventure Box Back

By John Walker on September 4th, 2013 at 12:00 pm.

So, I admit, I bounced off Guild Wars 2. After promises of its being a brand new approach to the MMO, finding myself in a generic fantasy world being asked to kill five of something, I pretty much gave up straight away. I know, I know, I should have dug in, but as you can imagine it’s not possible to dedicate time to every MMO I’m not going to be writing about. Then I see the details of the new Super Adventure Box: Back To School update, and I regret my decision.

Aside from the sheer cruelty of being yet another place to use the words “back to school”, which I saw emblazoned across every shop window since before the Summer holidays even started this yea – the bastards – this isn’t anything you’d expect to find in such a game. Unless of course you played last year’s April Fools-borne incarnation of the Super Adventure Box, in which case you’re likely rolling your eyes and tutting at me so hard you’ve given yourself a headache.

This 8-bit inspired collection of challenges is the same content as last year’s set of platforming and exploration challenges, along with a bunch of new content. The school set up by asuran genius Moto now has a World 2, and the new Tribulation Mode. There are a ton of new bits and bobs too, all listed in detail here.

The update page for this addition also contains a teaser for yet more new content due on the 17th, called Tequati Rising.

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124 Comments »

  1. Yosharian says:

    “So, I admit, I bounced off Guild Wars 2. After promises of its being a brand new approach to the MMO, finding myself in a generic fantasy world being asked to kill five of something, I pretty much gave up straight away.”

    You have no idea how refreshing it is to hear those words. I felt the same way, except I spent 10 more hours futilely trying to love it.

    • HexagonalBolts says:

      Ditto – after being promised so much I found it intensely dull and utterly conservative in its design. In reality the meat and bones of the game had progressed only a few millimeters beyond WoW which came out god knows how many years ago.

      • Yosharian says:

        Yes I agree, very conservative design, that’s a great way to describe it. Coming from a level 85 warlock to this game felt like… going from chess to checkers

        • JohnH says:

          Yeah I have to say I agree with you folks. GW2 was (and is) a boring flop imho. My last try was last week and after 30 min I logged out and deleted my characters.

          • DrGonzo says:

            It’s fair enough you found it boring, but it certainly wasn’t a flop.

          • Smashington says:

            “Chess to checkers!” BAHAHAHAHA! I tried to play WoW again after spending a year on GW2. I can’t do it. The combat is so flat and boring. Pillar humping and dice rolling. LAME-O

            I have a ton of friends who I’ve known for 8+ years that I used to play WoW with that never made the jump over to GW2. I talked quite a few of them in to playing it. They couldn’t take that learning curve and just quit before they got anywhere. Quite sad actually. To think I’ve known these people so long and considered them good PvPers and to see them come in to WvW and get destroyed then rage quit and say the game sucks and has terrible mechanics….

            I have advice for these types of people. Get your game up. Learn to dodge. Read a wiki and learn what your character is capable of. Stop trying to play GW2 like WoW and standing around absorbing hits instead of actively avoiding them.

            I think the thing I’ve heard the most complaints about is the dodge. I’ve had multiple people say it’s stupid and shouldn’t be in the game…. Even though it’s the best part of the combat. Actively letting you use skill to avoid an attack… BOOOOO GET RID OF THAT! BOOOOOO!

            And as for getting bored leveling. Yeah ya got me on that one. I don’t think the leveling experience is bad. I think how long they draw it out is. If they could make each renown heart worth more so you didn’t have to do like every races zone just to level properly that would be a great change.

            Or……… If leveling is your only complaint. Spend 20 dollars on the gem store. Probably the only 20 dollars you’ll ever spend on the game. You’ll get like 70g when you transfer your gems to gold. Then you can craft from 1-80 in like 5 hours with plenty of gold left over for buying level 80 gear and getting in some WvW! WOOOO!

          • Nick says:

            learning curve in gw2.. lol.

          • dE says:

            I’m sorry to hear your friends couldn’t take the “learning curve” of Guildwars 2. It’s a rather hilarious concept to me. Surely whack-a-mole is not a complex game to understand, is it? I’ve made a tutorial for you, that you can give your friends. I’m surprised you couldn’t tell them yourself, alas I’m here to help:

            SuperGuide to Guildwars 2: Become a pro in one step:
            Rule 1: Don’t stand in red circles
            Rule 2: I said one step. We’re done here, you’re a pro at GW2.

            There, I explained all there is to learn about the learning curve to success in Guildwars 2.

          • Smashington says:

            GW2 novices/quitters giving any serious GW2 player advice on combat is a joke. Just stop. You sound like a silly goose!

          • Smashington says:

            And since we’re probably all comparing GW2 to WoW in this little bickering fest.

            WoW PVE: Choreographed. Step inside the little footprints and press buttons in the prescribed order (rotation) WIN

            GW2 PVE: No chroeography. Boss attacks whoever he desides is the biggest threat instead of being dumb enough to sit on the tank the entire time. Requires all the terrible DPS to have skill. WOMP WOMP.

            WoW PVP: Again follow prescribed rotation. If character shoots X at me I know Y is coming next. Not to mention WoW has like 700 buttons on your screen but if you actually took the time to look you use less than 10 in an average PVP fight. When I quit WoW back in cata a frost mage pretty much only needed frost nova, blink, ice lance, frostbolt (maybe) and polymorph on their bar. GG

            GW2 PVP: No rotation. Combat is spontaneous and unpredictable. Requires constant attention to be able to dodge incoming attacks. On my warrior I use 13 abilities every fight. Nothing is ignored or just sitting on my screen with a 10 minute cooldown that I use once a month.

            I’m just saying if you think about it rationally GW2 requires more skill to play. Especially PVP. You have so many things to worry about other than 1 role. That and you have to actively avoid damage. WoW pvp is 2 characters standing in front of each other going blow for blow maybe peppering in some stuns or interrupts.

            This is one of those arguments that can’t really have a winner. It’s not like I’m going to convince you to like GW2 or you’re going to convince me that it’s bad. I’ve played everything since the original Asheron’s Call and I think GW2 is the best thing to happen to skill based combat in MMOs.

            That being said I will probably be leaving for Wildstar once it’s out because it’s combat is even more polished and rewarding (been playing the beta since April). That’s not to say GW2 won’t adapt and patch their game between now and Spring to keep it more in line with the innovations offered by Wildstar. Only time will tell.

            And yeah I’m passionate about MMO combat! Long term, maybe someday it will be as polished as a single player action game. But right now GW2 and Wildstar are the closest thing to it. Tera and Neverwinter have that problem of rooting your character to the ground with auto attacks which completely takes them out of the running in my opinion.

            Edit: lol at this tiny box to fit my text in. Making it look like I typed way more than I actually did.

          • dE says:

            Yeah okay. You’ve just made your flamebait a tad too obvious with the poster-boy MMO Tryhard Oldschool act. For a moment there, I really thought you were serious about GW2 being a difficult game. Which is a rather absurd notion.
            I mean, a self proclaimed pro player that doesn’t know that GW2 happily uses the same tried old Aggro Mechanic from all those other MMOs? Hilarious, I’ll admit. Good show.

          • TXinTXe says:

            “In addition, not all creatures (in particular, legendary creatures) use the same A.I. for aggro; some creatures will have unique aggro mechanics [2]”
            Taken directly from the link. Good try, but no cookie for you this time buddy.

      • Dances to Podcasts says:

        In fact, in many ways it actually tried to catch up to WoW…. and failed. For example, the addition of animalistic races is nice, but they don’t have the charm or personality of even WoW’s low poly vanilla characters. The same with the world, which is more open than GW1, but with WoW delivering fully open continents back in 2004, the fact that there are still load screens between zones is strange. You’d expect a game with the ambition of Guild Wars 2 to leapfrog a competitor that old, not be a pale imitation in those aspects.

        • aliksy says:

          You’re doing this thing where you’re stating subjective opinion (“but they don’t have the charm or personality of even WoW’s low poly vanilla characters”) as if it’s empirical fact. Please stop.

          • misterT0AST says:

            There is no objective way to define “charm” or “beauty” or “appeal”. I’m afraid the only way you’ll ever find those words used is in subjective opinions. Also a good indicator that a person is just stating their opinion is that they’re talking. There is no need to add before every single statement we make “in my opinion”.

          • aliksy says:

            He’s saying the game is inferior (objective) because the races lack charm (objective). He probably meant he liked GW2 less (subjective) because he didn’t find the races as charming as WoW’s (subjective). It’s a subtle but important difference in tone.

          • Yosharian says:

            I agree with him

          • Dances to Podcasts says:

            While indeed subjective, it seems so obvious that I didn’t expect it to be an unpopular opinion. I regularly find myself repeating back the barks of the various characters to the game in WoW (though not as often as in TF2, mind). In GW2, on the other hand, I don’t even remember what my character’s race has to say at all.

        • Smashington says:

          Open world isn’t the only option. If you want to have animation quality and attention to detail you have to do zones. There’s a reason GW2 is the best looking MMO ever made. If it was open world graphics would have to be muddied down. I’m fine with it the way it is.

          Best looking character detail and animations I’ve ever seen in a game.

          • Dances to Podcasts says:

            Is that actually how it works, though? There are plenty of height differences in GW2 already that block your view, even within zones. I wouldn’t think you’d have to draw beyond that? Besides that, MoP has upped the poly count as well, without having to add separations. Also, I’m not sure animations would influence that at all…

          • TXinTXe says:

            It’s not that. The world is separated in zones because that way they can make another zone for the people trying to get there when the default one is full. That way they don’t have queues in the servers, and that way they can also put updates to the game with basically 0 downtime (which is quite a feat, in my opinion).

        • aliksy says:

          You personally don’t remember what your race said, so it’s obviously generic? Are you for real? I don’t even know what to call that defect. A lack of empathy, maybe?

          “I’ve beaten you, but you don’t know it yet.” [/asura]

      • Apocalypse says:

        On the contrary, besides the weapon based combat mechanics and streamlining of some of the basic wow mechanics the game make a giant leap away from wow vanilla.

        Guild Wars 2 does not try to be a mmorpg. GW2 tries to be a single player themepark RPG with an easy multiplayer component. And if you look at the game this way, exploring the stories that game can tell you, and enjoying the occasional madness of multiplayer games it be quite entertaining despite being on the gameplay side very similar to World of Warcraft.

        Guild Wars 2 is in essence what World of Warcraft tries to become since years. A decent single player game with some little extra multiplayer content that works rather well in small groups. Minus the subscription fees, which as well means minus the loot hunt that keeps you paying in wow.

    • aliksy says:

      I have a lot of issues with Guild Wars 2, but I’m really wondering if we played the same game at all. Generic fantasy world? The charr have tanks, the asura have weird floating architecture, the sylvari are kind of weird. Are you using some new version of ‘generic’?

      I found the gameplay to be solid enough that I think it could stand as a single player game, and that’s not something I could say about most MMOs.

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        FriendlyFire says:

        You’ll find that the majority of people finding it generic have only played a single human character for about 30 minutes.

        As I’ve always said, if you pick human you deserve all you get.

        • aliksy says:

          Heh. Human Warrior (the most boring race/class combo in my opinion) was the most popular by far, according to the stats they released.

        • Yosharian says:

          Played charr, human, asura and norn, found them all boring, perhaps generic too

          • aliksy says:

            You’re not very good at this “explaining yourself” thing, are you? I mean, thanks for sharing your opinion I guess, but without some more substance you’re not really adding much to the conversation.

            edit: Or you’re a troll. That’s also a possibility.

          • derbefrier says:

            Same here the world itself is fucking boring. I tried all the different starting areas and I swear they are all just slightly altered versions of places lie stormwind ironforge etc.. I only lasted about a week so I never saw anything high level but the game just bored me to tears made even worse by the fact you have to endure boring quests and shit untill level 30 before you can step foot in a dungeon. It was just the same old shit wrapped in a different color wrapper. Next gen mmo my ass.

          • Smashington says:

            lol @ this guy saying GW2 environments are slightly altered versions of WoW environments. Now I’ve officially heard it all. I’ve seen nothing in GW2 that even remotely reminds me of WoW and I played hardcore from launch through Cataclysm.

          • evernessince says:

            @derbefrier

            It’s obvious that you didn’t play as you just stated a blatant lie. You can play ANY dungeon at ANY level unlike WoW where you have to be a certain level. guild wars 2 scales, WoW does not.

            Starting cities look like WoW, another lie. Yeah divinity reach looks so much like stormwind…, oh except that the two cities architecture and shape are a completely different.

            What’s the grove compare to? and the asura starting city? Yeah you should play the game…

          • Yosharian says:

            He said 30 mins human I explained that that’s not the case, what else do I have to say? I don’t have to write a novel to give my opinion, plus plenty of other people obviously agree. We’re just having a natter/moan/whine over the game, that’s all, you disagree, that’s fine

        • Arglebargle says:

          I thought their race design was pretty good, and certainly not totally genericized. The humans are there for the folks who don’t like to stray too much from the standard. While the Sylvari are riffing on elves, it’s a very nice riff, with some interesting new elements, though I didn’t end up connecting with them like I thought I would. Coming from a military family, I totally got the Charr, and had a blast rping my character. The hyper-snark of the Asura was pretty dang amusing as well.

          The developers also had to build these from already introduced elements (excepting the Sylvari), so there were some boundaries already set. The big corruption/master of the world thing is a bit MOR, but that almost comes with the territory. I found so many wonderful little vignettes inside the game that I couldn’t help but like it.

          Certainly found the GW world far superior to the charictured Warcraft one, which totally put me off WoW long, long ago.

      • dE says:

        Part of the reason Guildwars 2 seemed so generic to me, was it’s formulaic approach to world design. It also used the popular trope “corruption” as a magical fix-it glue for everything. Each race had its personal polar opposite that inhabits the early areas and is evil for the sake of… screw it, because “corruption”.
        If a player persists through the early areas, the variety of enemies is replaced by hordes of the same. This gets worse the more you progress. The later shiverpeak areas are essentially: Dredge, Dredge, Dredge, Dredge, Icebrood, Dredge, Dredge, Dredge, Grawl, Dredge, Dredge, Dredge. The later Kryta Areas are: Centaurs, Centaurs, Centaurs, Centaurs, Centaurs, some humans, Centaurs, Centaurs, Centaurs. And let’s not forget the corrupted, Risen and company, everyones first “kill 1000″ achievement, probably about 5 hours into the game. At that point the game is already generic within its own personal scope. Out of its rush to make everyones experience equal, they had to create a world that is basically the same everywhere you start and everytime you progress. The occasionally beautiful landscapes don’t change that very much.

        And a new coat of paint is a pretty fitting description for the races as well. Scratch a bit and it’s easy to see their origin. The asura are gnomes, tinkering with stuff and weird inventions. The sylvari are elves, totally in love with nature. The Norn are supersized dwarves with a few drops of Viking in there. The charr are the comical villains turned antiheroes of fantasy stories. Usually Orcs, like in Nicholls Books.

        The enemy design? Oh, Dragons, Harpies, Griffons, Nagas – sorry Krait, Ghosts, Undead, Centaurs, Imps, Ents – sorry Treehearts, Corrupted everything, Giants, Giants Part 2 – Jotun, etc. Not to say there aren’t a few fresh ideas in there, but it’s mostly quite generic. The technological aspects of the races and enemies have little to do with the feeling that they’re all too familiar.

        • evernessince says:

          @dE
          Corruption was the main antagonist element in the game, not merely a patch they applied to “fill” holes. If you were to play through the story you would be able to see that it’s wasn’t just there for the sake of filler. If you believe that the story or creatures are generic then maybe you can try to create a large mmo such as this that doesn’t include anything in any other rpg or mmo to date. Good luck, it will take about 10 years and 10 billion dollars if at all possible. Just labeling a game generic because it uses some common rpg characters and element is detestable. You might as well call every rpg the same.

          • dE says:

            If you don’t like this car, then build one of your own? Woah there, did you just commit discussional suicide? That wasn’t necessary, really.
            And yeah, I have played the storyline to completion. Making the corruption the main storyline still means it’s corruption and it’s the magical fix-all plotholes glue. Why is he evil? CORRUPTION. Why did he betray his friends? CORRUPTION. That’s about as generic as it gets. Hell, even classic betrayal and revenge plots are less generic than just explaining every action with a whiff of “corruption did it”.

            /edit:
            Prevening nitpick idiot comments:
            Yes, living story expands the story. Or let’s just say, dropped the storyline.

          • TXinTXe says:

            That’s true at the end of the personal story. It becomes pretty generic at about lvl 40, with zaithan and it’s corruption everywhere.
            But the first 40 levels or so worth of personal story are nothing like that, they have quite a few varied themes (there are like 8 different begingins, 3 for each race) and of those there are several that are quite interesting (not all).

      • Bloodloss says:

        That’s not seriously your argument is it? The Charrs have tanks! That makes the entire boring as fuck world and lots horribly designed races good! Seriously?

        I’m going to take dwarves from WoW and umm… give them Jamaican accents! Yeah, now they’re unique! Never mind being incredibly similar and sharing all the same tropes used in every fantasy game. Alright, now it’s time for gnomes…. erm, how about I give them blue skin. There, done, now they’re totally unique!

        The fact they have floating architecture means nothing. They are gnomes and share most of the common tropes like super intelligence/science like they have in WoW. Also, they look terrible. The Charr having tanks… are you serious? I can’t believe that is an argument for it not being generic.

        You fight the same things, explore the same environments, see the same races with minor alterations. It’s an excruciatingly dull game.

        • Apocalypse says:

          What he means that Char are are race in the middle of industrialization. Not like the typical warhammer dwarven-steam-tanks think, but really full sized industrialization as a nation that developed out of a tribal nomadic culture that was forced into a war by their power-hungry leadership.

          For Petes sake, the Charr are the science guys, within the first 5 minutes you hear Charr engineers mocking about the Asura and claiming they it is no problem to share a few advanced metallurgy techniques because it does not matter as the Assura are at least 100 years behind char production techniques anyway.

          The Asura at the other hand have any industry at all, they are not really good at science either, because all they do care is the great alchemy. Magic. Magical artefacts, magical weather manipulation, magical golems, magical reactors. And it blows up constantly, because magic is chaotic in nature. So while the Asura indeed do a lot of research, they focus on a very specific field mostly. And even in this field, magic, they get surpassed by the great works of the old race of Tyria : Humans.

          Humans are not like in most fantasy the ascending young race, they are indeed the old race of Tyria that is on decline since centuries. The humans are the ones with that shaped the world to a great deal, they are the ones with the ancient powerful magic, with the ruins all over the world, their gods brought magic into the world and their power defeated the primal dragons 10,000 years ago. Yet, no much of former glory remains, and younger races like the Charr or Slyvari will soon overcome the old greatness of mankind.

          Slyvari at the other hand are nothing like typical elves. Instead of old age race on decline they are the youngest of all races. Instead of melancholy over the past they are full of joy and curiosity, exploring a world that is completely new to them, uncertain what their place in this world should be, easy to confuse, easy to distract. As they are plants, they have a deep understanding of growing things and use them as their base of technology and as they have a permanent connections to the dream, a realm in the mist of their mother tree, they seem to have a natural gift with magic as well, which makes manipulating plants so much easier for them. Does this make them to Elves? Just because they happen to enjoy themselves in nature and can cast spells on plants?

          Sure, there are similarities to dozen of other works, but this does not make the world itself generic,
          and btw, while corruption is a main theme through all of guild wars, its by far the only theme and more important the theme is explored in far more ways than just one dragon as a source of it. Temptation is another constant theme of the world and most events about the corruption have a proper character motivation and development behind them.

    • nrvsNRG says:

      but he loved Neverwinter…….even more generic and even more of the “kill 5 whatever” quests.

      • Arglebargle says:

        That’s a pretty funny point. Way less diversity in Neverwinter, but which one is generic??

      • Runs With Foxes says:

        That’s John Walker for you.

    • Doganpc says:

      That’s okay, its not for everyone. I just happen to like it, just don’t play it as much because currently i’m binging on TSW and War Thunder.

  2. Njordsk says:

    Lack of trinity was its biggest mistake TO ME.

    I just can’t go back to play a warrior that can’t tank, can’t take back aggro, has to heal himself. I didn’t find my char interesting, so I just gave up.

    Played quite a lot though, something like 200/300H, but the total lack of “end game” other than skins killed me.

    • gunny1993 says:

      Heh, I was initially all about getting rid of the trilogy.

      Then I get to level 60 and realize i really, really like it and i hate not being able to go around looking at all the beautiful scenery without a freaking squadron of allies.

      • Squirrelfanatic says:

        Hm, can’t say I agree with this. I have played several characters and different classes throughout my time with the game and never had any issues going somewhere that was appropriate for my level. Sure, you might not be able to instantly down any Veteran or Champion mob you come across on your own, but it is entirely possible to do so (if maybe slow). Getting used to not being able to facetank enemies might take some while but almost all professions have ways to work around that.

        • gunny1993 says:

          I was elementalist, maybe i just suck at playing a squishy class XD

          • Gnoupi says:

            Always travel with the air attunement. Boost your speed and wall-stun the enemies, and you shouldn’t be disturbed.

      • aliksy says:

        What are you talking about? Removing the trinity makes it easier to solo, so you don’t need a group of allies. Any class can solo most of the non-dungeon content.

        • Durrok says:

          I don’t really see that as a good thing. I’d rather play an MMO where you have to group VS everyone is soloing and gets to the end game with little idea on how to fill their role in a group.I really wonder when they are going to start branding these games as MSORPGs.

          • aliksy says:

            Guess we’ll just disagree then. I don’t want to have to wait around on other people.

          • DrGonzo says:

            Well, luckily GW2 has plenty of content that is impossible to solo, why is it a problem that it also allows those whose want to solo to have fun with the game?

        • Nick says:

          and they can solo it because its so easy you just need autoattack and maybe dodge occasionally. Thats not a good thing. If they could solo it all by using their classes abilities in different ways, that would be cool, but they don’t have to.

          • Squirrelfanatic says:

            Auto-attacking stuff won’t win you anything, really. Maybe you are really really good at managing your dodges but I just can’t see someone simply auto-attacking down enemies (solo) in any area after the starter zones without getting stomped. Can you say which zone you got that impression from?

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      lowprices says:

      200-300 hours? If any game grabbed me for that length of time I would consider it excellent value, but each to their own.

      Having said that, I don’t play MMO’s, so I have no context for whether that’s considered a lot, or a piddling amount.

      • BooleanBob says:

        In some ways it’s easier to invest 30+ hours into an experience you’re not really enjoying than it is 45 minutes.

        • gunny1993 says:

          Only if you’re a masochist

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          lowprices says:

          You and I have very different ways, my friend. If a game bores me for an hour or two, then in most cases I don’t continue.

    • Gnoupi says:

      Hm, my warrior pretty much never had to heal himself. The passive from his healing signet was stronger than the active heal anyway.

      And while there is no “taunt” kind of aggro, I didn’t really need it with a giant hammer. No need to take aggro when you smash enemies into the ground for the next seconds.

      There is a “kind” of end game, with the living story. Enough to turn it back on for a few hours every two weeks, for me at least, to heck what’s new.

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      Arathain says:

      You’d think I’d shut up about City of Heroes now that the darned thing is dead and gone, but no.

      I still think the way that game handled the trinity issue is the best. The roles of the trinity still existed, and you could play them pretty much as you did in other games and be successful. CoH made other roles just as viable. Healers, for example, were a subset of a larger grouping of support characters*. Supports had very powerful buffs and debuffs which could greatly reduce incoming damage and make fights faster and safer. Controls were also very powerful, allowing skilled players to shut down multiple threats reliably over the course of a fight.

      This gave you options as to how you wanted to assemble your team. You could bring a tank, and have them control aggro in the conventional way. You could bring supports sufficient to buff up your team and debuff the mobs such that each player could manage their own incoming damage and aggro.

      It made the experience of putting together a team much easier and ultimately more enjoyable, since you could experiment with strange combinations.

      *Actually, even Empathy, the most healer-like of the power sets, also had some very potent buffs, so fit nicely as a support role, and was somewhat gimped as a pure-nothing-but Healer.

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        Jonfon says:

        You’re not allowed mention CoH. It induces sadness.

        Actually CoH is another reason Guild Wars 2 (and any other MMO) just doesn’t cut it. I feel so mundane and generic compared to the characters I had running around in CoH (plus NCSoft are poo-poo heads and playing any other game they publish always seems unfaithful)

        (And correct on the Empathy-not-the-healer thing, I remember some random PuG telling me “Hey, why is our healer attacking things with vines and stuff. Stop that and just heal us”. So I did and the team proceeded to wipe about 2 spawns later because the leader was suddenly taking all of the aggro rather than having it dissipated away from him).

      • Arglebargle says:

        Ah, City of Heroes! Wouldn’t have even picked up GW if it had released a week or two later. No more money to asshole NCSoft.

        I liked CoH’s eventual adaption of Tanks as having slow but powerful attacks. When your attack power is called Super Strength and you are doing 10 points of damage vs some Blasters doing 100s, you are right to call things into question.

    • Doganpc says:

      It’s still my favorite feature, made me feel more in control of my skills. I usually play support roles… Hybrids anyway so like I’ve said before, GW2 was made for me :D

    • Arglebargle says:

      Holy Trinity is a game developer crutch. There’s no real world analog to a Trinity ‘tank’, certainly not real world ones. Taunt is a ludicrous power (unless somehow magickally powered), making next to no sense. IIRC correctly it first appears under that name in AD&D 2nd Ed., as a MAGIC USERS spell, and was useful because there was inherent collision detection and zone control mechanisms built in to that game system.

      Doesn’t mean you can’t prefer it, but it certainly bites my game immersion in the ass. And not in the fun way.

  3. Premium User Badge

    golem09 says:

    Couldn’t get into it either. It has some interesting stuff for people that like the whole MMO concept, but it still is the same for me, no matter how you look at it.

  4. Sakkura says:

    Guild Wars 2 does not ask you to kill five of anything, pretty much EVER.

    That said, I didn’t stick around either. The combat dodging, which was supposed to make combat more interesting, ended up being a bit too gimmicky. And the lack of the “holy trinity” makes PvE a disorganized mess.

    • Commissar Choy says:

      It dresses up killing X thing Y times with “fill this meter by A) right clicking glowing things or B) right clicking mobs and by the way fighting mobs is way more efficient.”

      • Premium User Badge

        Rizlar says:

        You can level up by killing things, but it never tells you to go kill five things. The renown heart thingies (which seems the most efficient way to level) often suggest you go kill stuff until the bar fills up, but while you are at it events will be popping up and there will be a load of other things which also fill up the bar. On my second character I almost never pursued hearts for the sake of it, I ran around doing events and whatever activities I came across and the hearts would just pop up as complete.

        GW2 literally never asks you to ‘go kill 5 of this’.

        • DigitalParadox says:

          For all intents and purposes it does. Technically you’re right, in that instead it says “You should go kill 5 x, or you could go click on 10 y instead to fill this bar. Or I guess you could go look for jumping puzzles and craft things and get a minuscule amount of experience that will take 20 times longer to get you to level up.

          But really, just go kill 5 x.”

          • Doganpc says:

            That’s kind of what its become now, when a zone is filled with people you can hop from event to event and complete hearts without even knowing it. The game is really at its best when the zones are filled with folks randomly grouping through multiple dynamic events.

            At which point it is a different game than generic mmo, but you don’t see that as often anymore.

          • Premium User Badge

            Rizlar says:

            Like I said, you could probably play the game by running around killing 5 of everything, but nothing suggests that you should. The game never says ‘kill 5 of this’, it says ‘go and kill an undisclosed number of these assorted dudes, do some other stuff while you are there, or get distracted by the giant dude running around killing everything, any of those will do, ta’.

            ‘Kill 5 of specific mob’ or ‘collect 5 rat tails’ is not the same as ‘go forth and do what you like in this area’. Sure, you will be asked to run around doing random acts of kindness, but it’s an RPG right?

    • Yosharian says:

      Yes it does

      • aliksy says:

        [[Citation Needed]]

        There are heart things that can be completed by killing stuff, but they’re optional and kind of there to guide players towards events. They’re not all very good, but focusing on them is missing the important parts of the game.

        • Yosharian says:

          A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

          Just because they changed the dressing on the quests doesn’t mean they’re better than WoWs. Questing in GW2 is boring, flat out boring. Fetch questing, killing certain mobs, traveling to certain areas, these are essentially WoW quests dressed up. Even the dynamic quests are very boring, and the very thing they claimed not to be, which was ‘static’ questing. They may rotate between different phases but they are still essentially static, no improvement at all over WoW.

          I enjoyed Warhammer Online’s public questing system more than GW2′s.

          This is without even touching on many, many other problems GW2 has unrelated to actual quest quality.

          And you may not think that questing is an important part of GW2 but the vast majority of players experience an MMO through its quests, everything else is ‘niche’.

          • aliksy says:

            You don’t have to do the heart quests. Do the events. Some of the events aren’t that special, or loop too quickly, but some of them I enjoyed a lot. The temple quests in Orr I found to be a lot of fun, especially the lyssa one with the 3 contested spots and the central altar. The grenth temple was also pretty good, with the spirits and risen priest to fight and the pact priest to defend. Outside of Orr, retaking the settlements north of Lion’s Arch is pretty fun, too. Hell, I even have fun with some of the escort quests, especially when they collide with each other.

            The temple quests in Orr especially aren’t static. When the players own the temples, the state of the area changes. They nerfed it a little bit, but some areas used to be exceptionally dangerous if the temples were in their corrupted state. Other events open new areas for as long as the players hold them.

            I’d like to see them go further with it. I’d like to see the major cities in danger if events are failed, and areas made safer for longer periods of time if the players succeed. But to say the events are the same as “kill 6 wolves” is just dishonest.

            The grouping model is also different from WoW and other MMOs, and that makes a big difference to me. You can just go places and participate without stealing anyone’s anything, without being overleveled. That’s important.

            Also I don’t remember any fetch quests or travel quests in GW2.

          • Premium User Badge

            Rizlar says:

            Indeed, if people are only looking for WoW-style questing then that’s what they will find, but it doesn’t need to be played that way. Hirathi Hinterlands event chain is a lot of fun with the right amount of people – you basically roll through the zone taking control of camps before facing off against the centaur commanders. At any point you can fail an assault and have to defend against the counter-push.

          • Premium User Badge

            jrodman says:

            It offers frequent options. That’s a step forward.

            A lot of those options are still bear ass collection. That’s a valid criticism.

            World exploring was good enough to get me to around level 40. I liked their spaces a lot. The activities had a lot of sameyness with enough variety to be not awful.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Hey, if you like to play it wow style, feel free to do so, but don´t blame the game. Because instead heading out and killing 5 rabbits you could have saved the ambassador, slay the assassins, gathered an army, protected the the pioneers and slay the dragon.

            Or you could have rescued a village from a centaur attack, gather troops to free the neighboring village from centaur occupation and march with an army to slay their impressive warlord to drive them off your land.
            Or you could have extinguish the fires on the houses from centaur catapults attacking the fort, drive off the invading troops, counter assault their entranced champ and slay their leaders in battle together with your comrades.

            And so on and one, each zone as about half a dozen or maybe even a dozen of such event chains. They are not easy to do solo, but become quite easy as a group. They will in most cases do most of the heart quests along the way, and yield in general the best xp and best rewards for doing.

            Once a game designer of star wars galaxy said: “We should try to make any activity as fun as we want the game to be, because mmo players will always choice the most efficient thing to do, even when it is the most boring thing in your whole game.”
            Today I say:”Some gamer will choice the most boring thing to do, no matter what. And than whine about it. A lot.”

  5. Auru says:

    So many people had a hard time with guild wars 2 to begin with.. I think the changes they made to the ‘core mmo’ experience just alienated people, but I put that on the people as a fault not the game, everyone just got used to that wow style of game for too long :/

    gw2 right now is brilliantly supported, has thriving communities on the different servers.. working pvp, actual challenging dungeon content and it isn’t littered with daily quests, it’s great.

    • Squirrelfanatic says:

      This is true, in parts. The amount of (admittedly shallow and time restrained) new content is pretty much unheard of and the game is getting a lot of polish, all the time. The player community is also awesome, although the recent changes that incentivize farming Champion mobs in big raid groups has brought out some unpleasant behaviour in some individuals (“No, don’t complete this quest, we would like it to fail so more mobs will spawn in a shorter amount of time and LOOT!!”).

      The PvP mode has some pretty big issues right now. It is by far the least worked on mode of the game, as a short visit to the official forums will tell you. Sure, those people who tend to bitch and moan the most will often also be the most vocal ones, but there is also a lot constructive criticism going around which – apparently due to limited resources allocated to deal with sPvP mode – it appears gets only little feedback in response.

      Finally, daily quests are becoming a more and more central part of the new update patches. Basically, the game tries to sell it’s different zones and modes to people by rewarding them to do them every now and then, which is fine I guess. But the situation has escalated to a point where crafting procedure for the new “Ascended” item quality are becoming time-gated, i.e. you only can craft one component of item XYZ per day, which is taking things a bit too far for my taste.

      The next couple of patches will probably make or break the game for me. I really like it and a lot. But if I realise that I log on just to have shallow story content in the same old zones shoved into my face again and again, I probably will stop to care at some point.

      On a side-note: The RPS GW2 community (situated on the EU server Gunnar’s Hold) is EXCELLENT and keeps me coming back just for the socialising and banter.

  6. Commissar Choy says:

    My biggest problem with GW2 is that the UI doesn’t tell you anything useful.

    • Premium User Badge

      Screwie says:

      Genuine question: What do you find is missing from the UI?

      • Commissar Choy says:

        Stat explanations don’t extend beyond “increases your armor/attack/etc” without telling you meaningful percentages, mob hit point numbers are absent, skill range (what does 900 range mean?), stuff like that.

        • Premium User Badge

          Rizlar says:

          Yeah, it doesn’t do a very good job of explaining the depth that’s there. What the fuck is condition damage? etc

          Personally I really enjoyed the progression from complete cluelessness, to being able to function, to deeper understanding, reading up on stuff on tinternet and eventually getting a fairly good understanding of all the systems. Pretty much stopped playing after that tho, the max-level grind doesn’t appeal (the original Adventure Box being an exception).

          • Premium User Badge

            FriendlyFire says:

            I dunno, “condition damage” seems pretty obvious… It’s the damage dealt by conditions you apply to enemies. Higher CD, higher damage.

            Most of the gameplay mechanics are well explained or rather obvious, IMO.

          • Nick says:

            Yeah, but how much condition damage = how much actual damage on various conditions? Same with the other stats..

  7. AlmostPalpable says:

    You know, in my day people used to make original and unique games instead of desperately cramming stupid gimmicky shit into their games to try to make people believe it’s different from all of the other games that are exactly the same as it and that also cram loads of stupid gimmicky crap into their games to make them stand out as different. And we used to do all that UP HILL IN THE SNOW.

    • Squirrelfanatic says:

      It’s a different situation here. The SAB was originally planned to be an April’s fool feature – and a pretty complex and elaborate one too. Don’t know if you’ve actually tried yourself, but it is far from being a “gimmicky shit”. To put it mildly, the content was very well received by the existing playerbase which has since demanded more. So why not listen to the voices that tell/yell at you that stuff like this is exactly what they want – every now and then?

  8. Merus says:

    The problem they had is they made this thing to try and kill the trilogy but they hadn’t quite worked out how to replace it with something fun, which remains an ongoing process but they’re getting there. (This is what the Tequatl thing is about – they’re revamping an existing fight to try and make it raid-worthy.) They’re slowly drifting to a place where many of the events are ‘do this before this happens’ which makes it less about killing several rats and more about area denial and cutting off approach lines and finding the most efficient way of handling things. Their biggest mistake were the heart quests – they’re tedious as hell but players are directed to them right off the bat and then they’re underlevelled because you’re supposed to be doing events.

    In any case, whether or not people bounce off it, it did at least get developers to start questioning their assumptions regarding how they should put an MMO together vis a vis whether it should be exactly like WoW or mostly like WoW except with a few minor tweaks.

    • Enkinan says:

      I think the real problem is that they did not plainly lay out what really replaced the trilogy, which is field/leap/blast finisher combos. If you have a group utilizing fields properly, it creates very real roles for people that are much like the trinity.

      Unfortunately for PvE players, the raid sized content is too easy to have to utilize fields properly. I can tell you though, in WvWvW, groups that communicate and coordinate field usage will pulverize much larger groups of players that just zerg to win.

  9. Premium User Badge

    Jonfon says:

    What killed it for me was the sheer dullness of the various areas. I mean the human areas basically went “City” > “Fields with Centaurs” > “More fields with reskinned Centaurs & some swamps” > “Hilly fields with Centaurs”……

    There felt like very little progression really. I think I played for about a week or two and then just gave up out of sheer boredom.

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      Actually, after the centaurs you get ‘zombie version of race X’, ‘zombie version of race Y’, etc.

      • Premium User Badge

        Jonfon says:

        I don’t think I managed to get that far to be honest. 3 lots of Centaur related zones was enough for me really.

        Actually Daily Tasks or whatever they were called really irked me too. Felt like every time I logged on suddenly I had a job. I know they exist merely to give people things to do and reasons to explore but my naturally apathetic self ended up going “Meh, not this again”

        Really it is one of those games I should log on to again to see what has changed.

        • Premium User Badge

          Rizlar says:

          Hop around some other zones while you are at it. There are waaay too many centaurs to do the human areas exclusively. Quite like Ebonhold and the Charr areas meself, but lots of swampy/foresty areas lie to the south.

      • Apocalypse says:

        It is not after, the humans have 4 big sources of conflict:
        The war with the centaurs, the peace with the Charr and the Seperatist that do not like this, the White Mantle and the forces of Zhaitan attacking Kryta.

        Depending if you head east, west or south or if you use the Gate from Divinity’s Reach to Ebonhawke you end up in one of those conflicts. Side-stories related mainly to those 4 conflicts can be found in the other zones as well.
        What did you expect you end up in a war zone and keep constantly fighting 100 different groups of enemies?
        In the mid game you can than get dragged into the affairs of other races of Tyria as well and end-up than in the final war affords against one of those enemies.

    • aliksy says:

      You appear to have no idea what you’re talking about. First, there’s 5 starting areas. Walk over to a different one? After that, there’s a fair amount of geographic variety. Coastal areas, big volcano, the” used to be underwater and was raised to the surface” areas, snowy the mountains, the branded-by-the-dragon part, the charr areas, the asura areas, and so on.

    • nrvsNRG says:

      you shouldnt have picked human, its the most boring starting zone, but you can just go over to any zone you want anyway.

      • Premium User Badge

        Jonfon says:

        I know that, That’s kind of what I ended up doing (I actually started in the Elf-Plant place which may have been why I ended up disappointed when I was dumped out of them after 2 zones and into dull Human / Centaur lands.)

        Each “path” involves zones which are like a minor reskin of the last zone, especially the humans and the Norn paths.

        I didn’t see much of the Charr or Asura ones. because after heart-hunting in the first 3 places the Norn zones just sort of ground me down running from place to place on my own (I was roughly level 35).

        Maybe it’s that most MMOs seem to boil down to a lot of solo play and very little opportunity or need to team meaningfully. WoW felt the same way in PvE to me (Events in GW2 just seemed to boil down to a lot of people zerging around a spot and beating up whatever popped up with little communication. There were some cool ideas but once the game was a month old or so or you stumbled across one in the middle of nowhere they were quite hard to complete)

        • aliksy says:

          You said it felt like a minor reskin of the other zone. What sort of differences are you looking for?

          • Premium User Badge

            Jonfon says:

            Maybe it’s just a generic MMO thing but as you progress you (well I) want to feel like I’m getting somewhere power-wise. Spending hours getting new powers and traversing new zones only to end up in the same sort of situation where a lot of the time you’re fighting bunches of 2-3 more centaur guys* who are raiding another town but are 10 levels higher just seemed like running to stand still or something.

            (*using this as an example)

            I’m not deliberately picking on GW2 with this, WoW and Warhammer Online did exactly the same sorts of things. It’s just a flaw / irk I have with MMOs in general which GW2 didn’t manage to successfully resolve for me.

  10. Premium User Badge

    Astatine says:

    Oh, so much negativity in this thread, it makes me feel sad :(

    I love GW2. It might not be the best thing since sliced bread like the pre-launch hype made it out to be, but I find the combat fun and engaging — I can barely play other MMOs’ combat now, they are all too slow and too reliant on button spam rather than tactical thinking. Even Neverwinter which claimed to be action combat-y. In GW2, if you’re paying attention and you know your class, you can take on mobs notionally way too tough for you — crowds of veterans; champions pitched at 5+ people — and have a chance of coming out on top. In every other MMO, take on a challenge intended for more than 2 people solo and unless you outlevel it you get squashed by pure numbers, with no way to think your way to victory.

    And the classic trinity is rubbish, seriously. It basically boils down to: you can either have a tricky role and have fun but everyone will scream at you if you do it wrong (tank), play on easy mode and watch the big numbers (DPS), or be everyone else’s slave (healer). I dare any of you to say it ain’t so.

    I agree that GW2′s organised group PvE is a bit of a miss, replacing the trinity with nothing hasn’t worked very well: it’s hard to define exactly what everyone should be doing in a dungeon and it can be hard to figure out how to beat an encounter when Things Go Wrong. But I wish a game would try to replace it with something that gave different, interesting roles for everyone. Something like (1) damage and helping others to deal it, (2) crowd control/hindering the enemy and (3) intercepting attacks/preventing damage to the group might be interesting. Nobody seems to be trying; I was very disappointed WildStar is perpetuating the bad old trinity.

    Anyway. Super Adventure Box! I actually don’t like it. I never liked that Italian plumber very much and the whole thing feels like a massive immersion breaker. Also, I don’t like things in MMOs that take away your character’s chosen skills and replace them with an inferior set. So I’ll be playing the other bits of the game this month (there’s lots).

    • Premium User Badge

      Rizlar says:

      Yeah, I love the skill element so much. Going from being a complete noob to being able to consistently kill veterans and large groups while levelling was great. Seem to remember some fights going on for so long that enemies start respawning, creating a never ending fight between mesmer, leaping around, dodging attacks and leaving illusions, and five or more enemies chasing him around and getting stunned.

      re: Super Adventure Box, that was the one update that got me playing GW2 regularly again. It was challenging, but completing it was achievable without a lot of grinding. ‘Distinction in Applied Jumping’ tickled me. Also the music was great.

    • valczir says:

      Hey, I’m right there with you. GW2 has the second most engaging combat in all of the MMOs that I’ve played (with the first most engaging being when I played a Monk in DDO – ridiculously fast attack speed, dozens of special attack skills, and if you execute your attacks in the right order you can trigger a finishing move – all during active combat using typical third person shooter controls). Although, honestly, using a mantra build may help me there – since mantras are instant cast (and can be cast while knocked down, feared, stunned, or while other skills are being cast), they further destroy the “spell rotation” idea.

      I also love the world, the events, the story (except for Trahearne – I wish Trahearne had died instead of Tybalt), the atmosphere, the builds, … it’s not a perfect game, but as a person who has had trouble getting in to any theme park MMOs (I was an Ultima Online player, couldn’t stand EQ or WoW – and believe me, I tried): GW2 is a huge step in the right direction.

      Slightly related: I was getting tired of always holding right mouse button (the only feature I ever requested during beta was the ability to make mouselook a toggle), and ended up installing one of the Combat Mode mod-type-things. Re-doubled my fun.

      Quick disclaimer for anyone reading this: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros (summary: all mods are “use at your own risk”, but are probably okay if they don’t give you an advantage over other players)

  11. RvLeshrac says:

    Had the designer of SAB not been a complete fucking idiot and used incredibly shitty games (and romhacks) like IWBTG and Kaizo as his “inspiration” for the useless crap like the rapids (YouTube video) where you must exploit flaws in the rendering and collision engines to proceed, this would be a great update – a return of something we loved.

    Instead, the community almost universally despises this update.

  12. DarkFarmer says:

    As long as were just talkin’ bout GW2….

    Anybody who bounced off guild wars isn’t going to be able to give you alot of details about how the game works. I’ve got an 80 with all exotics, not really deep into the game by any means but, you know, a good 100 hours in I guess?

    Anyway it’s a great MMO, and if you think it isn’t a radical departure, you don’t play very many MMOs. There is no healer or tank class, and each hero has to dodge and position themselves in such a way to avoid enemy attacks during combat while still delivering their damage, kind of like… every game ever made other than WoW and its clones. Combat feels like a real video game and its great.

    The biggest frustration for me was lack of people doing PvE on my server. I guess other more populated servers had more dungeon queues firing but, it was hard to play through all the dungeons I wanted to. The dungeons feel a little bit tough in some regards; if you don’t know some of the gimmicks you can find your team wiping repeatedly, which I guess frustrated people away from PvE.

    WvWvW is super cool, really had alot of fun with that. There is just a ton of good stuff in this game, I wish I had more time to play it.

    • nrvsNRG says:

      totally agree, I think its a great fun MMO with decent mechanics.

    • Premium User Badge

      Rizlar says:

      gw2lfg.com is amazing. Basically a cross-realm dungeon queue. <3

    • Enkinan says:

      There is no hard trinity, but tell me a defensive spec signet/shout warrior and a water spec elementalist doesnt boil down to being a tank and a healer..

    • Premium User Badge

      jrodman says:

      The dungeons ended my willingness to play.

      Way too much constant dodging required. I like avoiding damage but not ceaselessly.

      For comparison, the first dungeons in WoW asked very little of the players, and they slowly turned the damage up over time. The first dungeons in GW2 were just not fun for me at all.

      I also like trying to figure out what to do in games, but not with 4 other people I don’t know. Trying to find my way around with stressful group dynamics on a confusing map didn’t work out so well.

  13. aliksy says:

    GW2 had a lot of things about it that I don’t like, but some of these complaints don’t sound like they’re about the game I played.

  14. Enkinan says:

    Anyone else tried the tribulation mode on SAB?

    It is brutal. Absolutely old school Atari/NES at it’s worst brutal.

    The new levels had some rough moments, one of which is shown perfectly in the first video, but most of it was fun and challenging.

    • RvLeshrac says:

      I wish people would stop with the “Old school” nonsense. There were an infinitesimal number of games that were in the style of IWBTG/Kaizo, and everyone despised them at the time. No one really enjoys a game where death is constant AND you have a tiny number of lives.

      The only reason IWBTG is popular is the abundance of save locations. The only reason Kaizo is popular is save-stating and emulator rewinds.

  15. Randomer says:

    While I think GW2 has a beautiful world that is really fun to explore, I feel like the game gave me very little mechanical incentive to see/do new content beyond the first zone or two.

    Most MMOs get you to keep going for that “ding” moment. You get a new level (with new skills) or a new item from completing a quest. In GW2, it seemed like new items basically only came from story quests, and they were always way below my level. And because the content all scales based on level, it never felt like gaining a level was an improvement. If anything, getting a level made me feel worse about my character, since then I had an 10 level gap between character level and gear level, rather than a 9 level gap.

    • DrGonzo says:

      You don’t get any abilities from the story quests. You get new abilities from collecting the skill points, which are from challenges, which are more often than not, kill this dude.

      As for the scaling, you still become incredibly powerful. You level up to 20, then head to a level 10 area, you are dropped back down to level 10, but you will still be able to kill them easily. It just means that the occasional veteran will still be a bit of a challenge, and Champions still hard as nails.

  16. -Norbert- says:

    Erm… it’s Tequatl with an L at the end, not Tequati.

  17. Tasloi says:

    I’ve put quite a few hours in this game and have an overall very positive view on it. However the Ascended weapon crafting requirements and the general crafting level increase introduced in this update have pretty much killed my desire to continue. Especially knowing the rest of the gear is still to follow. Time to move on to other games. I’d still very much recommend giving it a try though.

  18. Frye2k11 says:

    I still play and love gw2. Despite some classes getting more broken every patch, despite the irrational design choices that are blatantly obvious. They keep painting themselves into a corner, over-buff some things, over-nerf others. Too much loot one day, too little the next. Rough edges doesn’t quite cover it. Tunnel vision of designers and a lack of independent balancing advise if you ask me. From day 1 i figured they needed to attract an outsider with a fresh perspective.

    The game just plays very well, there is a fluidity to the combat that appeals to me a lot (sorry for being vague). The structured pvp is still bland but world-vs-world is unlike any other game. The highly customizable characters make pvp interesting but fundamentally unbalanced. Some classes can nearly one-shot others because of the vast differences in hp/armor/dps. Unfair isn’t it? Some classes excel in large group fights but fail in everything else. Some classes excel in 1-on-1 fights but are hopeless when there are lots of enemies nearby. My favorite class was overpowered a few months ago, now we are bottom of the heap. If you can cope with that, there is a myriad of interesting combat mechanics under your fingertips. To get the most out of guild wars you should really play multiple characters.

  19. darkhog says:

    Who else thinks that whole GW2 should be in this style?

  20. shimeril says:

    I bought GW2 and played it for a while when first released. It was ok, nothing truly earth shattering. I certainly didn’t find the changes to be revolutionary, more interesting than WoW maybe, but still not what I would call the MMO for me. I enjoyed the instances in Rift a lot, but found little else in that game to grab me. So I’ll just keep on playing with the original Everquest when I feel the need for some MMO’ing. My personal view is that EQ just nailed the classes perfectly. The variety is there, and while it obviously is the “kill 5 rats” style for a hell of lot of the quests (not really surprising since it’s 14 years old), I’d still rather play it than any other MMO so far. A lot of the later additions have made the game stupendously easy, but if you don’t do the tutorial, and don’t go buying the insanely powerful buff items available to low level chars then there is still plenty of challenge in there for solo mode. Best bring your own friends for grouping though before level 80.

    Roll on Everquest Next. Maybe, just maybe, that could be the one for me.

  21. Anti-Skub says:

    I like how they’ve got a teaser for “new content” and it’s a clip of a shit boss that’s been in the game since launch with one new attack.

    …it’s like a whole new game.

    • sneetch says:

      Yeah, I love the game, play it all the time and the big “new exclusive content” reveal at PAX that turned out to be… them reworking the very first boss I saw for the game back in what alpha? Early beta?

      Whichever it’s pretty disappointing.

  22. Wraggles says:

    I didn’t so much bounce off this game as played it hoping for it to be fixed and get better, and then it didn’t, and started going the wrong direction. I watched as my entire guild from GW1 was slowly alienated as they catered to the WoW crowd by adding more grind. I watched as balance got worse not better, as PvP never got fixed, and the needed modes never added. I watched as instead of fixing old quests and zones, they added more cash shop items. I watched as they ignored error reports and punished their most dedicated players for them. By the time I’d left, they were adding more zones while 50% of players still couldn’t get past bugs in their personal stories.

    Anyhow, stopped playing a long time ago, more bad content won’t pull me back. The game doesn’t even scratch the surface of the tactical depth of the first, the world and dungeons are considerably more boring. It was probably the most disappointing release of last couple of years, I think it only just edged out D3 for me, probably because I cared more.

  23. Kinch says:

    If you bounced off Guild Wars 2 but want to check out SAB, there’s nothing stopping you. No need to renew your subscription, no need to level a character, no need to gear up. Just… double… click.. the… damn… icon… ;)

    Gotta love all the trolling comments with people venting how they hate the game, how they’re too imba to play it. etc. Usually when I’m disappointed by a game (!), I don’t go around talking about it all over the interwebs. Get over yourselves, people.