Grim And Bear It: Grim Dawn Enters Steam Early Access

By Graham Smith on November 7th, 2013 at 11:00 am.

Grim is my nickname sometimes.

Grim Dawn is the model of a modern videogame. Built by the remnants of Iron Lore Entertainment, using the engine and tools from their excellent but overlooked action-RPG Titan Quest. It’s been in development for over three years, it got double its asking amount in a Kickstarter project in 2012, and now it’s available to buy and play via Steam Early Access.

When Grim Dawn was first announced, it was just on the cusp of the hack-and-slash revival, with Torchlight, Diablo 3 and Path of Exile yet to raise their axe aloft. Now it’s a very different world, but Grim Dawn still looks like a gritty brawler, and ‘from some of the makers of Titan Quest’ should carry just enough pedigree that this is worth checking out. Also John liked it when he played an even earlier build back in May.

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63 Comments »

  1. Antistar says:

    Titan Quest is still my favourite game of its type, bar none. The long wait for Grim Dawn has been agonising; it’s very tempting to pick this up, but I do really want it to be finished first, ideally.

    • trjp says:

      Wise thinking.

      My problem with TQ was that it got quite boring (esp from a combat PoV) – I’d like some feedback on that aspect of it before I leap – esp given the pile of ARPGs we have atm anyway

      I’ve also heard that the release price is targetted to be quite a bit cheaper than EA – tho I’ve no idea if that’s just a rumour…

    • frightlever says:

      I played through TQ and the expansion but… I just never fell for it the way I did with D2, or even the original Sacred.

      Why do people like TQ so much? It didn’t generate random maps even, did it?

      @trjp if you haven’t already, try Path of Exile. It’s all about trying different builds. You just have to accept that different builds, mean creating new characters and not re-speccing.

      I think the Grim Dawn street price is $20 as opposed to $30 for the early access.

      • DatonKallandor says:

        Titan Quest got the loot density almost right (sets were still too rare to ever complete, but you got plenty of uniques), the skill system was awesome and they had all those quality of life features that took Blizzard another decade to finally implement (shared Stash, potion buttons, respecs, increasing inventory, a great autosort button, precise stats).

        • frightlever says:

          Appreciate the reply. Hmm. Maybe I should have another bash at TQ after NaNoWriMo is over.

          • DatonKallandor says:

            Just stick with it through Greece, which is a little tutorial-ish. The game really picks up once you hit Egypt. And the expansion act is just amazing. It switches from one incredible tile-set to the next every 2 regions – there’s more unique tilesets in the expansion than the entire vanilla game put together – and they’re all great.

          • jiraiya78 says:

            Don’t try the vanilla. You should at least apply the community patch. And then maybe install the latest soulvizier mod which enhance the experience such as starting run speed which is considered to be to slow and many more exciting feature. You can find the mod at moddb under soulvizier name. Good luck!

          • DatonKallandor says:

            The Underworld mod is also quite good – it tweaks and adds skills to make sure every class is equally powerful (all bumped up to the sheer all-around power of the expansions added Dream Mastery) and there’s no trap skills that are just bad.

        • theoriginaled says:

          I always found TQ to be at its best when using the xmax mod to up the enemy spawns. The vanilla game just felt a little too empty and a little too slow but somehow tripling the number of enemies on the map put the balance just about right. Loot came a little faster and levelling went a bit faster and it all kept up with the number of spawns quite well. Sure a few bosses because actually impossible to beat with the mod on (9 gorgon sisters instead of three..) but its a small price to pay to fix the balance.

      • Skeletor68 says:

        I bounced off TQ in favour of D2 as late as last year! I think TQ came in a bundle at some point. I threw PoE a few bob last year and need to get around to playing now that it is out.

        For those playing Path of Exile, how is the optimisation now?

        • Sharza says:

          To answer your question: Optimization seems to have been improved (though I don’t have a real comparison because I only started playing when they had officially released) but the netcode appears to be quite wonky, still. It causes problems for HC characters but for my “normal” character, I didn’t mind it.

          (Just so you have a comparison –> Rig: AMD FX 6300; 8 GB RAM; 760 GTX)

          I have played PoE for about 15 hours now and it was great fun for that time but I have some gripes with. I can only really talk about the “Witch” class since it’s the only one I have played. It bothers me that there so far only seem to be spells where you have to stand for a tad too long and cast. It hampers the fluency of the gameplay which I didn’t feel happened for example with D3.
          The other thing that bothers me is that you have a million ways to skill your character but to really have an efficient character it seems there are very limited choices. After taking a close look at all the skills available for quite a while and playing around with the skill calculator, it seems there isn’t even a viable build for an elementalist mage. You have to be an ice mage, fire mage or lighning mage. Maybe I haven’t played for long enough to really tell but when I looked up some “build guides” later down the line, there were none that had more than a few skills to use. For the most part it seems (at least the witch) is a 2-3 button character. If that’s the case with all of the characters, then that’s something that will eventually make me quit the game.

      • Fynn says:

        For me, Titan Quest started off verrrrry slowwwwly. It was actually putting me to sleep. It only finally started to pick up near the end of Act 1, where you start getting some interesting abilities and enemies to fight. That and I loved the ragdoll system of knocking monsters everywhere.

      • malkav11 says:

        For one thing, because it didn’t generate random maps. Modern ARPGs are a bit better at assembling random maps that are actually interesting places to run around in, but the competition at the time ended up with incredibly bland, featureless mazes that aren’t exciting to play through once, much less over and over. Titan Quest’s maps on the other hand were gorgeous and full of personality.

        For another, ragdoll physics. Landing strong hits on enemies is super satisfying because they go flying in a spray of gore.

        Finally, it had smart ideas like the super-customizable dual mastery skill system, the permanent access to town portal, charms, etc.

      • Antistar says:

        I’d agree with what DatonKallandor said there (though I don’t think I’ve tried that mod).

        Other things I like about Titan Quest would be the excellent feedback to player (animation, visual/sound effects, etc – combat feels satisfying) and the great use of colour. It’s colourful without being garish.

        There’s also nice touches like enemy ragdolls flying further depending (I believe) on how much overkill damage was done. Comical but satisfying, again.

    • Jesus_Phish says:

      I’ve got Grim Dawn through kickstart backing and I would suggest you hold off for now. I got the beta about 3 weeks ago, played it for two nights maybe and haven’t gone back to it yet.

      The game is very slow so far. There’s been quests to kill X things where I haven’t been able to find enough of X monster, the level curve seems off with me not getting enough experience to be able to progress at a reasonable pace through the quests I’m being given without getting my ass handed to me in the areas it’s sending me to because the monster out level me by a good amount. That results in grinding the same areas over and over to get xp which is something I’ve never experienced in any aRPG before.

      The leveling/talent system is similar to TQ but dulled down. Only 4 classes so far and the abilities are all fairly standard affairs. You get an ability like “power shot” and then everything else on that abilities talent line just augments it to add something else to it. Which isn’t very fun.

      • Keyrock says:

        You must be doing something wrong then as, if anything, I find myself leveling too quickly early on and I barely have to so much as drink a health potion at any time until about level 9 or so. The game balance isn’t completely there yet, certain abilities are much more useful than others and the item drop rates aren’t completely honed in yet, but I’ve found the enemy challenge to be pretty much spot on. I’ve done 4 different builds (demo/occult, pure soldier, pure occult, nightblade/soldier) and I can steamroll through most enemies as long as I don’t get too cocky and stupid, occasionally the difficulty spikes for a champion monster or a particularly nasty group of regular monsters, as it should, and I have to really watch out against cold ones if I’m playing a melee character (those guys are dicks). I find the game to be challenging but fair.

      • matthewfarmery says:

        I have to agree with Keyrock on this, as the combat is fast paced for me too, maybe you should try a nightblade, as you will level pretty quickly with that, besides, the enemies should remain one or two levels above you, so its not hard to level at all, but XP from quests did get reduced a bit, but unless you are missing out on quite a few quests, you should be able to progress through the game at a good pace.

    • fooga44 says:

      TQ had shitty combat. It was the most boring combat I’ve seen in an ARPG that’s why it sold so very very slowly. It was a snoozefest. The story was just incoherent as well and many levels just felt randomly thrown into the game.

  2. Screwie says:

    Those tags!

  3. AngoraFish says:

    This is a really shitty move by the developers.

    If you kicked into their crowd funding campaign early last year, game largely sight-unseen, you might have paid $35 for “exclusive” access to the beta. Now anyone can buy into the beta for only $26.99 and with a lot less uncertainty about whether they’re paying for a half decent game.

    If you happen to be one of the poor sods who kicked in on spec at the $18 tier with an estimated delivery of “Aug 2013″, you’re now being asked to wait another year to even see a Steam key. Either that, or you’re forced to pay for the game all over again if you can no longer wait.

    In fact, if you pledged at the $28 tier you still won’t be offered a key even though the game can currently be purchased for a dollar less than your initial pledge.

    Talk about kicking sand in the face of the guys who supported you on hope and trust alone when you were struggling to pay your bills.

    I’ve been genuinely heartened by so many of the devs who have been exuberantly grateful to their backers, yet it does leave a bad taste in my mouth when a developer clearly doesn’t give a toss about their backers, and it does turn you off potentially backing in future… certainly I’ll be waiting for the inevitable day one Steam sale for anything else these guys do again in the future.

    • Jesus_Phish says:

      I agree this is a bit of a weak move. The only thing you get now with the $35 tier is the OST and some in game item as well as getting the beta a few short weeks before early access on steam.

      • malkav11 says:

        You also get three other KS exclusive items (yes, they’re not exclusive to the beta access tier, but people buying in on Steam don’t get them) as well as a DRM-free version, and the regular Steam early access price is only going to be $5 less. If you don’t think an OST, a DRM-free copy of the game and four exclusive items is worth $5, well, you could ask for a refund, I suppose. But I hardly think you’re being massively screwed over.

        Similarly, the $18 backers were promised the finished game. They’ll get that, I am quite certain.

        • JayG says:

          As one of the total idiot to back this game at 18 dollars, I would just like to know how I can get my money back. Beta access for those who paid is one thing, but a year and a half ago I supported these cheating sods on spec. In fact considering the amount of abuse poor old Double Fine gets, I’m surprised this gets such a pass.

    • frightlever says:

      Meanwhile the Planetary Annihilation guys get crucified by staying true to their KS backers – which to be fair, I agree with you, was the right thing to do.

    • StranaMente says:

      Even if it’s quite difficult to tell what it is, it is certainly possible to tell what kickstarter isn’t, so here’s the Mandatory reminder: Kickstarter is NOT a preorder platform.
      And I say this as a backer of this and many other games there.

      • AngoraFish says:

        I wouldn’t have thought it unreasonable to expect the developers to treat their backers with a little bit of courtesy and a touch of gratitude.

        It’s worth noting, however, that Kickstarter is a preorder platform, and explicitly so. Developers cannot ask for “investors”, they must offer a product, and are obliged to fulfill orders for that product.

        Kickstarter is explicitly not a system for making charitable donations, “Everything on Kickstarter must be a project” in which “something will be produced as a result“.

        Every project’s primary rewards should be things made by the project itself. If the project is to record a new album, then rewards should include a copy of the CD when it’s finished.

        Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter’s Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

        It is true to say that in this case ultimately people will most likely get what they paid for, and therefore of course nobody has a claim for breach of contract.

        This doesn’t make the current situation any less disrespectful to early backers, who might have been lead to expect that the value of their initial pledge was greater than it ultimately turned out to be due to the explicit actions of the developers rather than any particular unpredictability associated with vagaries of the development process.

        • kud13 says:

          Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order platform.

          If you want a 1-word description of Kickstsrter and other crowd-funding initiatives, it’s “patronage”. You are paying because you like the idea of a project, and want to see it happen. Similarly to how townsfolk in medieval cities would pool together their savings to pay an architect to build a magnificent cathedral.

          Yes, there are rewards. Yes, a copy of the product is usually the most common reward. But you could easily throw $100 at a project and pick the lowest reward tier (which usually smth like “thank you” and/or some concept art).

      • Jesus_Phish says:

        While that’s true I still think it’s bad form of the dev to do something like this. Without the original backers they wouldn’t have made it through the KS process. Now they have and it’s some time later with the game being delayed and it appears on Steam at a cheaper price point.

        If it went on steam at the same price point I don’t think any backers would feel hard done by. But it’s a hard pill to swallow for some that it’s happened this way. It also casts a bit of doubt on where the money is going that they’ve opted to continue funding the project through Early Access.

        • Cleave says:

          When you back a Kickstarter you’re paying to contribute to get it made. I don’t see why you should feel hard done by if they then offer the product for less as you supported it because you wanted to help fund the development, not because you were getting a bargain.

          Incidentally, I think it’s pretty rediculous that early access could cost more than the final release. I thought the whole point of alpha funding is that you’re buying in to the early version for cheap and then the price will increase as it gets nearer to completion. The thing with the kickstarter rewards is that you’re getting earlier access when you pledge more which does make sense but is a bit of a contradiction when they later open it up for alpha funding.

          • Jesus_Phish says:

            I don’t think anyone has suggested that the early backing process should cost MORE than the release version but I don’t think it’s in any way a show of good will from the devs to sell early access CHEAPER than kickstarter people paid for it.

            You’ve basically got two lines of people in the beta now. Those who paid $35 to get beta access (they could have paid $18 for just the game on release) and those who will pay $27 now on early access and $30 in about a weeks time. Those who paid the first wave have paid above the odds for beta access. Now they got it a few weeks early (about 3ish) but I can understand why some people would feel annoyed. It’s worth pointing out that $35 was the minimum needed to get beta access and some people would have paid that regardless of the other items (in game item + ost).

            Personally I’m not overly fussed about it, but I can see why people would see this as bad form. Kickstarter has been an experiment to date and one that I personally think I might be done with.

          • svendelmaus says:

            I dunno, developers should be allowed to charge whatever they like for alpha access, and the Prison Architect example certainly seems to argue that it’s the right move in certain cases (e.g. when you want to open up limited testing, rather than front-loading some of your sales).

      • Ergates_Antius says:

        Whilst technically accurate – the developers are well within their rights here – this is still very bad form. It’s not particularly good business sense either – it’s usually a good idea to treat your loyal customers (i.e. early backers) well. Deliberately undercutting the backing tiers you set up yourself isn’t doing this.

        Would it really have killed them to send all the people who backed at the $28 level (whatever that was) a steam key?

      • Foosnark says:

        The email I have titled “Grim Dawn Pre-Order Key” rather makes me think I preordered the game.

    • trjp says:

      This is why I think KS needs to stop people including the game in their pitch – seriously – it’s making the whole thing into a pre-order system and screwing-up everyone and everything around it.

      KS is for BACKING a game – they can throw toys and bonuses but by effectively making it a pre-order program, you’re limiting yourself too much in terms of making money from actual pre-orders/early access etc.

      Bottom line of course is that a LOT of the KS money is really pre-order money – money you’d not get if you weren’t throwing the game at people – but I still think we need to separate these things…

      • AngoraFish says:

        One might expect that if a final game weren’t offered as part of the pledge tiers the bottom would immediately fall out of the entire crowd funding model.

        • malkav11 says:

          I certainly wouldn’t back any project that didn’t grant me access to the product being funded, or at least a product of reasonable value. (With a few exceptions – I’ve kicked in a few bucks towards causes I supported like reprinting Ace of Aces but didn’t have the funds for/don’t need/the end result would be free anyway. But generally only a few. And not often.)

      • DatonKallandor says:

        Not it isn’t. Your idea of what Kickstarter is for is diametrically opposed to what Kickstarter themselves explicitly state they are for. So in effect, you are plain and simple – Wrong. One of those cases where there’s no ifs and buts or subjectives about it. Kickstarter is not for “supporting a project” – it’s for giving someone money to make a product which you then get.

    • jamscones says:

      Add me as another $18 Kickstarter backer who is dissatisfied with the situation. Those who paid for early access (alpha or beta) received that exclusive access over the last year. By making the game publicly available on Steam they have created a situation whereby a small underclass of people who showed enough faith in their game to pay for it in full 18 months ago are left out in the cold while a rapidly growing pool of new purchasers can play immediately. If I wish to play now, I have to upgrade to the $35 tier, an extra $17, whereas if I’d waited until the public Steam Early Access release, I could have had it cheaper overall and right now.

      Let’s not forget that 18 month period also included a fairly pitiful “Sorry it’s late because stuff” project update email to backers AND this is Crate’s third bite of the cherry for funding. Being publicly available on Steam in itself provides the potential for a MASSIVE boost to their funding (it’s in the top sellers list right now).

      As of right now, I’m not inclined to support Crate any further for Grim Dawn or for future projects.

      • Cleave says:

        I agree with this. I backed at the $18 level and while I don’t think I should automatically be given beta access now it’s on Steam the finished game was supposed to have been delivered in August of this year. In light of the long delays (have they even given an updated estimate for release? It doesn’t sound like they’re all that close) I would have thought it prudent to now give all backers early access keys.

        • matthewfarmery says:

          the main dev has stated that all backers will be able to play once the new content is out, hopefully in a month or two, the delays have had a knock on effect for everyone,

          • Cleave says:

            ah, good. I’m looking forward to trying it

          • matthewfarmery says:

            I might be a tad bit wrong, but the main dev has stated that everyone will have access around January time, so it might be a bit after act 2, but even then, Act 2 might or might not be a few months off, depending on a few factors, but here is the quote from the main dev

            ……………………………….
            http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10079&page=8

            That said, due to delays in development, we are planning to give all KS backers access to the game before release. We’re just trying to pace it out so that everyone gets their fair time at each access level. I think we’ll probably do that in Jan.

            —————————-

            Crate are trying to pace it so everyone from all the tiers have a good shot of playing the game, besides, beta backers only got in pretty recently, the $18 backers haven’t been forgotten, but as beta backers haven’t been playing long, and remember the offer on steam is beta price, then its only fair to let them have a go, but everyone will have access soon enough, but the delays have had a knock on effect,

    • Calculon says:

      Completely agree – well said, thank you. I also backed at the ‘Beta’ Level. I complained on their forums about 6 months ago about their inability to manage the project, and show progress. Their response was – essentially – “Get lost and take your money” – I said ok – sure, give me my money back. Their response was “Uhhh – ya we have to mail you a cheque because its been so long since you paid, so can we please have your address?”

      I thought it was a little creepy and weird, so I declined. I would have wanted the refund if I didn’t have to go through the hassle of having them mail me a cheque for it.

      Anyhoo – overall I’ve been very disappointed with Crate. They haven’t been able to deliver even close to their timelines and their excuses have been weak at best. I honestly think they dont have the ability to manage a project of this size.

      I definitely would NOT purchase or back anything from Crate in the future. I’ve learned my lesson.

      • matthewfarmery says:

        now that is a bit unfair, the devs have made very good progress, and delays happen, I listed a few reasons for the delays, list a few games that HASN’T been delayed for one reason or another, and make that KS funded games only, as I can list a few that I have backed and had to push back their release dates for different reasons.

        because those that have mainly been released on time have been fairly poor in some places, or got rushed through as the team ran out of money, Legend of Dawn comes to mind and how badly that originally turned out and has no alpha or beta access, sorry what you said is pretty unreasonable at best

    • 2Ben says:

      Well, again, Kickstarter is all about overpaying in order to get things done. For Grim Dawn, I took the $48 pack with 2 keys + 2 expansions, no non-sense beta-access bullshit, it’s a pretty good deal and I certainly don’t feel cheated. And again, I wanted it done, so I just put whatever was within my budget at the time.

    • Fynn says:

      Why is it a shitty move? What was your motivation for backing them? This was a game mired by setbacks and lack of money and people for years, and you, along with all the other backers, helped them progress to this point of delivering a final game. If the game hadn’t made the money it did, it would not have made it this far.

      If the only reason you backed the game was to get a good deal on it, then you were only using it as a pre-order system. Which, as others have pointed out, is not the point of Kickstarter. Instead of being happy for them that your money has helped them grow closer to delivery of a game, you’ve got sour grapes over the unworthy plebes getting the game for a dollar less than you had to pay.

    • apocraphyn says:

      My motivation upon backing this project was for them to make the damn game, not for it to be delivered to me on a silver platter by the EXACT FUNDING DATE THEY INITIALLY SPECIFIED OR BY GOD, I’LL BE SO ANGRY!!!

      I understand being wound up about being undercut by Steam Early Access for those who went in with the “I’m pre-ordering a game” way of thinking, but Christ…some of you lot do whine an awful lot. I paid in at the $78 tier, after sending a message to the devs and getting a polite response from them about such a tier becoming a possibility. Pretty happy to wait until it’s ready. Have patience! Who cares if you paid a few extra dollars, you contributed to the development of the game. (And if you didn’t care about that, why didn’t you just bloody wait until the game was out and buy it cheap on a Steam sale?)

    • Hallgrim says:

      Talk about kicking sand in the face of the guys who supported you on hope and trust alone when you were struggling to pay your bills.

      If they feel they have to reduce the price of the final game (and I think they do), what else can they do? They’ve been charging a $10-15 premium for the beta. If they give it to everyone they are going to anger even more people.

      I paid $20 in 2011 for the game (without beta), and I felt a little maligned when the kickstarter happened and they didn’t give pre-KS backers anything other than some in game item. It is a shame, and I hope that other dev’s pay attention to the problem Crate has created. Monetizing your beta sounds great until you start charging a lot less for the privilege.

    • shogs says:

      You paid $18 for a copy of the finished game. The game is NOT finished yet.

      The people on Steam early access are paying a premium to play now (i.e. $29.99).

      The Devs have stated that due to the length of time it has taken to produce the game, they will allow all KS backers to eventually enter early access during the Beta giving you access you didn’t pay for in compensation for the time.

      But ultimately, you got what you paid for…

    • SillyWizard says:

      Why should this be different than any other good or service? You can go to two different retailers for a finished product, and pay two different prices. And certainly stores aren’t consulting one another to ensure that their discounts are all fair to each other and the customer!

      If the game was worth $X to you on Date Y, I don’t understand how you can justify being upset over a price decrease later. Clearly, the number of people willing to pay $35 for early access has dried up, so in order to keep funds rolling in they’ve lowered the price. Happens every day!

    • Sharlie Shaplin says:

      Yes, I would be hesitant to back any more of their projects.

  4. Spacewalk says:

    Man that Titan Quest was a long game, did it even have an ending? I gave up someway through the act Set in Egypt and I just can’t sit through that much game all over again to check.

  5. derbefrier says:

    Looking forward to this game but I will wait untill it at the very least has multiplayer working. Most likely I will just wait till release since PoE does an excellent job of scratching that arpg itch. I don’t feel a need to hurry up and buy it.

  6. matthewfarmery says:

    to the $18 backers, when you pledged for the game, you only pledged for the final release,

    here I will quote the tier

    —————–

    Digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free at a low price for your early support. Can be downloaded directly from us or via Steam and other distribution sites + Exclusive “Service Medal” in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

    —————–

    no where does that say beta or alpha access, just the finished game, but the main developer has stated that every backer will have access sooner then planned,

    what is more, there has been an upgrade service available through humble bundle for a while now, and also, what you pay on steam is still more expensive then what people have paid for the $18 tier, so really, while I can understand your point of view, you got to also understand, that you only brought the final game upon release, and there ways of upgrading your key for a long time now, and the game still isn’t finished, delays have happened, and this has had a knock on effect for everyone, but delays do happen, but KS ISN’T a pre ordering system, you help fund the game, so I dont see selling it on steam direct is any different to selling it through their site / humble bundle, besides the version on steam has no extras, as for the discount, that is a steam thing, once the game has been out more then a week, that discount will be gone.

    while this might seem to be a kick in the teeth, you still need to remember, you didn’t pledge for alpha or beta access, just the final game,

    • AngoraFish says:

      Your quote omits a fairly significant additional line “Estimated delivery: Aug 2013“, not to mention the clarification further down the main page “Please note that reward delivery estimates are conservative. We think we can deliver many of them earlier, especially if we exceed our funding goal but we want to try to play it safe.”

      Also, I keep seeing this argument that “KS ISN’T a pre ordering system”, and it’s just wrong. Kickstarter’s own guidelines make it absolutely clear that pledges are neither donations nor investments, and that a project’s primary rewards must be its finished product, which by any objective standard makes Kickstarter very much a preorder system.

      The only difference between Kickstarter and most preorders is that funds from your purchase are front-loading future income, which in turn can then be churned into development rather than frittered away in punitive interest to the pockets of investors, banks or publishers.

      Regardless, I don’t mind delays, and I won’t personally be playing before I get the finished product regardless. I just think that offering the game sooner to latecomers than it is being offered to early adopters, even though the game is well past its initial rock-solid, overly conservative delivery date, shows poor judgement and a lack of gratitude.

      • matthewfarmery says:

        and I did mention the delays, besides before GD ever came to KS, the devs maintained there was no release date, but the KS requires a ESTIMATED date, I say that again,, its an estimated date, that doesn’t mean that the game or product will be released then, and if you have followed a few KS funded games, quite a few have pushed back their rellease dates for different reasons, some, (like Legend of Dawn) messed up big time by pushing the game out and not even having any kind of beta testing, if they had released it on early access, fine, but they didn’t, plus they made a BIG mistake on not telling backers that they were going to rlease on steam, and when they did, it was only through backers that found out the hard way. and the mess up on getting keys.

        some small products have pushed the game out before it was fully ready, but the GD devs know what they are doing, they won’t rush this game, and delays have happened like I said, including, the main dev not been able to work due to problems where he lived, (I can’t remember the details) but it took a while for that to be righted, so that didn’t help, but was unavailable,

        before that, there was a problem with the two part time animators, they had full time jobs and were struggling to help with GD, plus they ran into a major issue that required a conference call with the iron lore devs to work out how to fix, (or something like that) without those two adding in stuff, the game pretty much ground to a halt, so they hired Tumbledown, a full time animator, thanks to the KS funds and stuff not costing as much. but there also been a lot of bugs that had to be fixed, some serious one that prevent MP from working.

        the thing is, when Crate made a deal for the source code of the engine, that is all they got, the assets and everything else, monsters, art, etc, belonged to THQ, so the Crate team had to work with what they had, so its been a long road, but delays happen, in fact I know of very few games even publisher funded games that are released on time, look at DNF and how long that took to come out, or quite a few others, but then, look at cod ghosts, and the PC port is probably one of the worst ports going, was it rushed? possibly, or the devs didn’t care, any sign of a patch? no idea, but rushed games are becoming common place as well, the new batman game has a lot of game breaking bugs for a lot oof people,

        but anyway, my point is, if people want a quality game, then they have to wait for it, and the KS esitmate was just that, and the game has suffered from a few delays, and every KS project needs a date, regardless if it makes it there or not.

  7. UncleLou says:

    I loved Titan Quest, possibly more than D2, and played it for hundreds of hours. It’s still unsurpassed in many areas (seamless world design, mob-specific loot, massive number of unique looking loot). Unfortunately, Grim Dawn does nothing for me at the moment. I am not even sure why, but I find it pretty uninteresting, and I usually lap these games up.

    • DatonKallandor says:

      The devs let themselves get held hostage by a vocal minority of hardcore fans. Crate Entertainment listens WAY too much to their forums. They had to fucking ASK if they were allowed to let gold be autopickup when you run over it. Those insane forumites are the reason potions aren’t auto pickup, destructibles aren’t highlighted and a host of other terrible “hardcore” hack and slash RPG sins are in Grim Dawn – ironic considering Titan Quests greatest achievement is doing away with the busywork like identification and town portal scrolls and inventory tetris.

      • matthewfarmery says:

        sorry but that isn’t really true,

        besides, are you stating that devs shouldn’t listen to their community? as there are plenty of examples of this happening and games turning out crap,

        I think its good that Crate do listen, the community are helping to shape this game, why is that a bad thing? just wish more studios would listen to their communities, maybe then half the bugged releases that we are having to put up with would be decent, problem is, as big studios don’t really listen to their communities all that often, or in a few places not at all, they release poor games, or crap games that people don’t want.

        so the fact that crate do listen is a breath of fresh air in my book

        • DatonKallandor says:

          Communities don’t know how to make fun games. If they did they’d be making them. Iron Lore on the other hand has shown that they perfectly understand how to make a great ARPG with Titan Quest. They don’t NEED idiotic community input because, unless they’ve all been hit on the head a lot since Titan Quest, they already know what to do.

          All the constant deference to the “community” is doing is hurting the game they’re building. This is painfully clear when you see them asking questions on their forums that they are perfectly capable of answering for themselves. “Should we make gold pick-up automatically as you run over it? Should it be picked up in an AoE or only when run right over it?” Of course you fucking should make it pick up in an AoE automatically. You don’t ask some bozos on a forum who consider themselves hardcore that because they’ll say that should have to click for everything – twice.

          Not only is your forum community going to be wrong, they’re also the minority of players. Or at the very least you pray to god they’re the minority of players because you won’t even break even on your costs to develop if they are. There’s two reasons right there why you don’t listen to them.

  8. Drinking with Skeletons says:

    Does the Early Access require you to be in Online Mode to play? I unfortunately have to spend a lot of time in Offline Mode and I’ve been burned before by Early Access that demands online connectivity (Audiosurf 2).

    • matthewfarmery says:

      the game is fully playable offline, it will have MP and co op, but those features aren’t in yet, but the game is made to played solo

      however, you do need steam to be able to play it at the moment, there will be a DRM free version later, once the game is final

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