Oh Project Spark Beta, Why Are You Windows-8-Only?

By Nathan Grayson on December 4th, 2013 at 6:00 pm.

Microsoft’s PC gaming track record has become turgidly tarnished in recent years, but I must admit that Project Spark looks and sounds extremely enticing. It’s a game and world creation and exploration tool – an infernal imagination engine to dive into whether you want to craft games of multiple genres, play other people’s whimsical wonderments/abominations, or something in between. Basically, think PS3 sidescrollamabob LittleBigPlanet but much more versatile, or Garry’s Mod without all of G-Man’s notoriously, er, charming faces. But of course, the soon-to-enter-beta experiment is a Microsoft product, so it’s Windows-8-only. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

Full disclosure: one of my machines runs Windows 8. It happens to be a Surface Pro 2 (thanks for the recommendation, Alec), but still: my point is that I’m not speaking from a place of blind rage here. I actually – gasp, riots in the streets, everything on fire – like some of the functionality Windows 8 brings to touch-enabled devices. It’s just an unnecessary, inner-calm-killing hassle on desktop machines. I have no desire to install it on my main PC, which is purring along quite happily with Windows 7, thank you very much.

I suppose, though, that Project Spark is at least making use of some of Microsoft’s interconnected Win8/Xbone/SmartGlass/other dumb names Metro ecosystem. For instance, you can self-capture all animations and dialogue for an NPC using Kinect. That’s all there is to it, too. Just roll camera, leap and flail like an idiot, and then point to whichever troll or robot or whale you’d like to claim puppeteer-ship over. It’s a pretty cool idea, and just a single example of copious “oh, why did no one think of that before?” simplifications of common game creation issues.

But still, Microsoft could just lift the arbitrary limits on all of that stuff too. A few updates later, we’d all be on equal-ish footing. It’d take some work, sure, but it’s far from impossible. It doesn’t have to be this way at all. It just is. Urrrrrgh.

Anyway… oh, right. There is some News here. Project Spark’s closed PC beta is officially underway, and you can sign up for a chance to join right through here. If you’re running Windows 8, I don’t see any reason not to. It will, at the very least, be decently interesting, I imagine. Did anybody here make the initial round of invites?

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178 Comments »

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  1. Ultra Superior says:

    Lol someone is clinging to their dying OS.

    You can’t stop the future, Nathan.

    • BTAxis says:

      Much as all the Windows 8 hate bemuses me, I wouldn’t call 7 a “dying OS”. It’s perfectly fine, and technically there is NO reason why any product should run on 8 but not on 7.

      • mattevansc3 says:

        Because its a different set of APIs. Windows 8 apps are designed to run on any version of Windows 8, which includes the ARM processors, Win7 is x86 code only.

        • LionsPhil says:

          That is not “a different set of APIs”.

        • MadMinstrel says:

          APIs are, as the acronym suggests, interfaces. In other words, sets of agreed on function names. Their underlying implementation, even in the rare cases where it has to actually differ because of the target architecture, has generally very little bearing on the API itself. Even if that was not the case, the smart programmers at game studios have zero reason not to support Windows 7 except that their dumbass politicking bosses tell them to.

        • SuicideKing says:

          That’s bollocks.

          Apps can be written in native or managed code. Native Win8 will run just fine on Win7 because the underlying kernel is effectively the same.

          The managed APIs are also mostly the same across Windows XP and above (.net, java) etc.

          Apps that use the Metro fluff are the only ones that can’t be run (properly) on anything that doesn’t use metro. These also use managed code.

          It’s not like you can code native to x86 windows and expect it to run just fine on ARM.

          • contrarian says:

            Sounds similar to things that are true, but it’s not. This comes from the false equivalency that’s crept into people’s minds that “native” means “c++” means “platform neutral because compiler.” So what you’re ignoring is that there is a native API layer that goes directly to the OS. Most simple app makers are getting at native winRT API through managed .NET but it’s a native API. People forgot about the concept of an OS API because .NET made win32 pretty marginal for a while. Most likely the reason some games are going Windows 8 only is because of changes to Direct X under the winRT, which again, is native and not compatible with windows 7.

      • Walsh says:

        Windows 7 is also two OS versions behind. It’s an antique at this point.

        Put 8.1 on your PC and just configure the setting to automatically boot straight to the desktop, then move on with your life instead of fretting over UI changes.

        • Gammro says:

          How is win7 two versions behind? There’s only one newer!

          • Discopanda says:

            SILENCE, CAVEMAN. THE HOMO SAPIENS ARE DISCUSSING OPERATING SYSTEMS.

          • SillyWizard says:

            I’m still on XP! And it’s horrible every day!

          • Walsh says:

            8.1 isn’t a service pack to Windows 8, it’s a new OS version.

            To the dude on Windows XP, do yourself a favor and upgrade to anything. Once XP hits end of support next year, there will be all kinds of shit flying around the internet to compromise your OS. Malware authors are privately holding on to unannounced exploits until XP is out of support to unleash their crap on you and Microsoft won’t do a thing to stop it on XP.

          • SuicideKing says:

            Windows 8.1 is NOT a new OS version. It IS a service pack to Windows 8.

          • Corb says:

            awwww, it is always so adorable watching people trying to talk about tech things they don’t understand.

            XP: it is already compromised and has a crap storm of stuff attacking it on the internet as we speak.
            8.1: it is an update to windows 8, thus not a new OS. Notice how the version number still starts with an 8? Also, the UI still sucks.

          • Walsh says:

            Goddamn Corb, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Derp derp it has an 8 in the front that means its just a service pack.

            Windows 8.1 is not a service pack. Microsoft released full retail versions of 8.1, which isn’t done for service packs. For example, did you know you can’t use the store to upgrade 8.1 on Windows 8 Enterprise? You need to use the 8.1 media to upgrade the OS the same as if you were going from 7 to 8 and every previous version.

        • SominiTheCommenter says:

          I too refuse to use programs when they are 4 years old. All those rotten bits must destroy our CPU.

        • Apocalypse says:

          8,1 is just a service pack, and its not a good one even, as the search is working not as good as in 8.1 and the ui is even more inconsistent than before.

          Though you could count windows RT and windows 8 phone as another 2 windows versions, than 7 is even 3 versions behind.
          Than there is xbox one and windows server 2012, badaboom 5 versions behind ;-)

          Are we enjoying this little game?

          • iainl says:

            8.1 is just a point release, yes, but the method of installing it is as an upgrade, not a patch. Now, there are obvious downsides to that (most notably being that if, like me, you’re the kind of SSD owner who junction points their Users folder off the C:\ drive you’re screwed, just as you were going 7 to 8) but that’s enough to count it as an OS version in my book.

            There’s a lot of bad things in Windows 8; my two main ones being the stupid movement of the shut down options and the new MS style guide calling for ALL CAPS menu/tab headers. But the boot times are just so completely wonderful I forgive it – even my SSD was taking far too long on 7 to get all the crap running.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Well, there is windows-x shortcut to shutdown, but I am not 100% sure if that was added in 8.1 or was already in 8.0. The menu itself is not new, but they added some features in 8.1

          • Corb says:

            that’s like saying windows vista was 3 version behind because there’s windows 7 home, professional, and ultimate.

    • Alfius says:

      Wait, you mean there are real people out there actually using Windows 8 who didn’t get it bundled on a new laptop?

      Whatever for?

      • LionsPhil says:

        So they can feel smugly superior for having the new thing to the people who are feeling smugly superior for not having the new thing.

        It’s Internet.

        • Ultra Superior says:

          I feel ultra superior to all.

          • Alien426 says:

            I run Win XP on my home PC and notebook as well as my work PC. Yeah, I bought Win 7 (with twice the bits, too) and put it on a SSD for my PC, but I just don’t want to leave my perfectly fine XP.

            Why they think the Explorer in particular is better than before is beyond me.

          • LionsPhil says:

            The change from backspace meaning “up a level” to “back” from XP to 7 trips me up on a regular basis, but otherwise Explorer’s much of a muchness between them?

      • derbefrier says:

        Because I got it for free. Also because its actually a good OS. Just takes a day or so to acclamate to the UI changes then its all gravy. People are so irrational when it comes to windows 8 its silly.

        I don’t know what lionsphil issue is he just made that up.

        • LionsPhil says:

          If you’re not on the Internet preening about your decision on which version of a gosh-gone-golly-darn-it tool to use being more enlightened than that of your fellow man, you are not the target of that comment.

          But look elsewhere in these comments.

        • JP says:

          You didn’t actually get it for free; its cost as factored into the PC you bought, thanks to MSFT’s near-monopoly. This allows them to create the illusion that millions of people are choosing to use their product.

          • GC says:

            Well I actually got the new Windows for free (acedemics) and installed it on my computer (bought piece by piece so no OS included), and I must admit that it is superior to Win7 on most areas. Well I am speaking about Win 8.1, I first tried Win 8.0 and that made me cry and want to die.

      • pilouuuu says:

        I installed Windows 8 on my PC and I have to say that I love it. Maybe the fact that it boots so fast could be reason enough, but besides that I think it feels more polished. I don’t like the Metro shit too much and the fact that it’s not very integrated to the desk, but the free apps are OK.

        I don’t even miss the freaking Start button. I just press WIN+Q and type whatever I need.

        I feel like I got into this new version much faster than for example when updating from 98 to XP. After a few days I was really enjoying it.

        • Lemming says:

          How fast can it be booting, that’s down to the OS though? I’ve still got Windows 7, and it only takes 10 seconds to boot on my SSD drive.

          • Moraven says:

            Win8 takes 10 seconds or less on my old SATA II mobo, 7200 RPM HDD. And it boots fast into the start screen after login.

          • Apocalypse says:

            The irony is that windows 8 boots faster than that on HDDs. And yes, booting, not waking up from standby.
            With SSDs and stuff like Fast Boot from asus boot times can go down as low as 2 seconds. Just like some current Linux versions.

          • iainl says:

            Even on SSD, my old machine would take a minute or more to reach the point where it was actually capable of doing anything useful on 7, rather than running as fast as it could to load all the necessary background tasks that stop it from reacting to my request to do what I want.

            Windows 8 doesn’t seem to do that vast amount of background loading post-login so far, and if I turn the power on at the PC first, by the time I’ve done the speakers and monitors as well I have a login screen – startup could only get faster by making my monitor wake up quicker now.

          • SuicideKing says:

            Windows 8 hibernates by default, doesn’t do a proper shut down.

            Alt-F4 allows a proper shutdown, and in my experience that’s as slow as booting Windows 7 on an HDD.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Than your experience differs from the norm ;-)

        • LionsPhil says:

          Serious question though: why are you booting more often than critical updates?

          Hibernate is faster, has worked well since XP unless you’ve got bad luck with drivers, and doesn’t require you to close/relaunch running programs. It’s not 9X any more, and won’t leak everywhere and soil itself if asked to run for a month.

        • hotmaildidntwork says:

          Does the windows key still minimize applications if they’re running fullscreen? Because that would create a conflict of interest for me that I would want to know about beforehand.

        • Sharlie Shaplin says:

          I reboot my PC maybe once a week, so booting a couple seconds faster is not really a great selling point for me.

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        melnificent says:

        Because it makes my daughters netbook run better.

      • Moraven says:

        Needed a windows license for the HTPC and figured why not spend the same amount on Win8 vs 7. I can always flop license with my main desktop if need be.

        The boot time is lovely with a non SSD computer. Even on a older BIOS mobo running a Core 2 Duo.

        After you spend an couple hours with it it really is not as bad as that first hour. Especially nice with a TV screen. 8.1 made it a lot better.

        • iainl says:

          More should be made of this, I think – I’ve put Win 8 on my old PC while remaking it into a Not Really Console under the TV, and support for using it on a 1080p screen in a way that’s readable from the sofa is far, far better than it was under 7.

      • Baines says:

        I bought Windows 8.1 because I wanted a Windows OS for my new machine. I couldn’t legally reuse the copy of Windows 7 that I had on a laptop, plus I wanted to keep that machine functional as an emergency backup.

        That meant I had the choice of buying a new copy of either Windows 7 or 8.1. 8.1 would have the longer life and it isn’t actually awful, so I went with 8.1.

        Because, honestly, Windows 8.1 isn’t awful. It still has some stupid Windows 8 design decisions. Some stuff is more complicated and/or clunky than it really should be. But it is functional. You can pretty much ignore the whole Start screen stuff with its average to awful apps and just run the desktop.

        In many ways, switching from 7 to 8.1 is like switching from XP to 7 or from 98 to XP. There are things that you don’t like, but you either disable them, ignore them, or learn new ways to do stuff. The best way to accept 8.1 is probably the same as those other transitions, which is to just stop using the older OSs. Continuing to use an older OS on a separate machine is just going to make the adjustment slower. (I was still using a separate XP machine well into having a Win 7 machine simply because XP did some stuff better, and some programs that I used under XP neither worked properly on 64bit 7 nor had a truly functionally and performance equivalent alternative available for newer OS/machines.)

        • malkav11 says:

          My primary reason for not upgrading is that there’s no compelling reason to spend the money or time at this point. But I get awfully tired of having to spend hours convincing Windows to work in a logical, user-friendly way every time I install it, and I don’t really see being able to do that as a selling point for moving on to a new version with new “features” I don’t want to deal with. And every version, you may be able to disable the most recent bad ideas, but another round of the previous bad ideas have been enshrined as immutable.

      • AsamiImako says:

        Because when you stop whining like a child and take a minute to use it, and perhaps work yourself around its more glaring issues using things like Start8 and ModernMix, it’s actually one of the nicest versions of Windows yet. It feels quicker, boots faster, and little touches like the spruced up ribbon, redesigned Task Manager, and new file transfer dialog are quite nice.

        • Slight0 says:

          Ultra mature windows 8 user detected. So modern you are. Windows 8 is basically the next vista. Except it was designed for tablets and offers almost nothing except slightly improved startup times which doesn’t even matter to 90% of us since we just leave the computer on/use hibernate.

          • Apocalypse says:

            What about all all the other great improvements besides boot times?
            Application session states, etc windows 8 includes most of the osx lion feature list ;-)

          • SuicideKing says:

            It has improvements, sure, but they aren’t worth $130 over Windows 7. Another issue is that by agreeing to spend money on Windows 8, you’re basically reinforcing Microsoft’s flawed notion that shoehorning a touch interface on a desktop environment is a good thing to do.

            If they kept it as a purely optional interface and kept the desktop and start menu the same (or allowed an option for that), there wouldn’t be much fuss, if at all.

          • Apocalypse says:

            They allowed on option for the old classic start menu, just install start8, classic shell, or whatever third party tool you like.

            Personally don´t like the classic start menu, because it is a relict from windows 95 times, I simply have to much entries in it, it became obsolete with vista already. Search as you type worked a lot better in windows 8 than in win7 or vista, though I am not totally happy with it in 8.1 .. actually I am not happy at all in that regard with 8.1

            And btw, the upgrade to 8 was rather cheapish ;-)
            Even when I agree that there is no need to upgrade from 7 to 8.

          • SuicideKing says:

            See, that’s the problem, if someone’s paid money to “upgrade” then they shouldn’t have to go on fiddling with the OS. It should have been a first party option, period. There’s no technical reason preventing the start menu, a lot of noise was made during the entire beta process about it, and M$ went out of the way to block the registry hack that returned it.

            Start8 costs money. Though yeah, classic shell is what i suggest to everyone who i meet and complains about windows 8, which is about 7 out of every 10 people i meet, across a spectrum of tech literacy.

            Again, i find the start menu convenient. I use search a whole lot, but then there are some things pinned to start. This is pretty much the thing with most of the people i know.

            EDIT: What?? Search is downright broken in Windows 8! This was acknowledged by even M$, and they made it similar to Win 7 in 8.1.

            I really don’t know why you don’t like windows 8.1 over 8, i’ve used 8 on two touch-screen laptops and i really wouldn’t want to use it without 8.1.

    • mygaffer says:

      Are you referring to the OS that currently has by far the largest market share of any OS on the planet? The OS that has FIVE TIMES the market share of Windows 8?
      Are you referring to the OS that won’t be EOL for 7 more years?
      I work IT, we are a small shop that supports many local small and medium sized business, we also sell computers. We have sold all of one Windows 8 machine, and it was touch enabled. Windows 8 only really makes sense on a touch enabled device. In fact it works fairly well with a touch enabled device.
      Windows 8 does not work so well on the traditional desktop. The “touch first” interface is an appreciable step backwards for the desktop user interface.
      I have heard rumors that Microsoft may be releasing an update early next year to fix some of these things, but there is one other insidious thing in Windows 8, the Microsoft App Store. That is a closed ecosystem. I am sure Microsoft envisions a future where you have to login to your Windows computer with an online account and the only apps you can buy are Microsoft approved and they apps of which they take a 30% cut of.
      The good thing is that the computer industry is still incredibly young and things can turn on a dime. Just look at what happened to IBM. There are lot of hungry competitors, i.e. Valve and others, waiting to pounce and knock Microsoft off its throne. If Microsoft doesn’t right the ship that could very well happen, in the consumer space and the enterprise space.

      • TormDK says:

        Yeah, because Valve doesn’t take a 30% cut, and doesn’t completely lock your purchase to their platform now do they!?

        …. Oh wait!

        *EDIT* Oh, and LOL as your comment about the enterprise Space. Microsoft has been growing year over year for the last DECADE in the enterprise Space.

        • Premium User Badge

          PikaBot says:

          I hope you realize that Windows is very different from Steam and so your comparison is completely silly. But then I suppose that if you were aware of that, you probably wouldn’t have said it, so.

          Also Microsoft had been doing fine in the enterprise space, but Windows 8 hasn’t been. Like vista before it, companies are giving it a miss and sticking with 7. Do try to keep up.

          • Mokinokaro says:

            Because companies only upgrade every 2-3 versions of Windows due to the cost? They tend to run the same OS until Microsoft stops supporting it for compatibility sake with new OSes only coming in with massive system upgrades.

            Heck, my work is using XP on most of their machines. The only ones with 7 are some newer machines they didn’t bother to downgrade. We’ve even got a couple Win8 machines (to be fair, they are touchscreen machines intended for visitors and clients to use.)

          • Premium User Badge

            PikaBot says:

            That is, of course, very true; companies tend to stick with what’s working for them for as long as they can. But the numbers show significant enterprise market penetration for 7, and pretty much none for Vista and 8.

          • Sharlie Shaplin says:

            In the job I left a few months ago, some of the PC’s in regular use still had win98se and winME on them.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Vista came, had a bad launch und by the time of SP2 for vista the new 7 was another option for upgrades. And it was only a minor iteration of the established vista, so not much risk involved in skipping vista.

            8 is still on SP1 (never update before SP2 is a a wise saying), brought some more major changes in kernel, apis and a whole new set of APIs for metro, together with a new user interface. Companies absolutely need to switch from XP these days, so the natural safe bet is 7 right now.

            Even I would not advise companies to switch to 8 right now. And I would ask them why they did not switch in time already to 7 anyway ;-)
            At the same time I would not recommend switching from XP to 7 for private use, go to 8, it is ok.

        • tetracycloide says:

          Because an application that’s literally for selling things is just like an OS. Are you kidding because I can’t parse that as anything other than a joke.

        • SuicideKing says:

          Steam is free. Windows is paid. Steam is third party. Windows is not. If SteamOS is paid, then yes your comparison would be valid.

    • SkittleDiddler says:

      The fuck does that have to do with the topic at hand?

    • The Laughing Owl says:

      LOL this kid has no knowledge of IT and IT market whatsoever…how sad.

    • Lemming says:

      Interestingly, until I got to the last line of your comment, I thought you were talking to MS about Windows 8.

    • 2late2die says:

      When Win7 is below 10% you can start calling it “dying” in the meantime show some respect http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

    • djbriandamage says:

      Almost 20% of Steam users are using this “dying OS”.
      http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

      • WrenBoy says:

        Unless Im reading it wrong that link says 64% of users have Win7. What OS were you talking about?

        • DRoseDARs says:

          The only way I can get to 20% is combining Win8 with Win8.1 percentages so I’m assuming he’s confusing which OS Ultra Superior is mocking.

          • WrenBoy says:

            All too easy to assume people are making fun of Win 8 I guess.

    • DRoseDARs says:

      As of November 2013, Win7 has ~47% of the desktop OS market to Win8’s ~7% or Win8.1’s ~3%. WinXP is sitting pretty at ~31%. How’s that crow taste, Ultra Superior?

      • Mokinokaro says:

        How many of those XP machines are corporate ones of companies who haven’t even switched to 7 I wonder.

        The main drive of OS upgrades is OEMs through hardware replacements and upgrades. Thanks to the extended console generation, a lot less PC users are buying new hardware. That’s a far bigger factor than the WIn8 internet hate machine.

        • Slight0 says:

          Speculation. Doesn’t change the numbers. The numbers show that Windows 7 was adapted faster than windows 8 has been and the trend isn’t picking up.

        • Aiun says:

          As easy as it is to write off Win7 retention as Enterprise and Government reluctance to upgrade, it’s JUST as easy to write off Win8 uptake as consumer apathy or lack of options in the purchase of bundled-OS with their new off-the-shelf PCs and laptops, rather than an informed decision or a willing endorsement of the software.

          It’s not being bought because people like it or are interested in it, it’s being bought because that’s what Microsoft convinced major suppliers to stock on new machines.

          Pointless speculation.

          • iainl says:

            People who need to purchase a new OS are mainly buying Win 8. People who don’t need to purchase a new OS aren’t. Because this isn’t about Windows 8 being awesome (I prefer it to 7 now, but not by enough to reinstall the OS and all my apps on my laptop).

            It’s about Vista being shite. I got rid of that crap the moment the RTM 7 ISO went up on MSDN, because 7 is Vista Done Right. 7, on the other hand, is nowhere near broken enough to need fixing right now.

          • Baines says:

            A lot of pre-built PCs are still shipping with Windows 7, which means many casual buyers aren’t even really seeing a choice.

    • Exzodium says:

      If this is the future, I say it looks like shit.

      • Sharlie Shaplin says:

        I am hoping by the time Win7 kicks the bucket, there will be a viable alternative to Microsoft for my needs.

    • HyenaGrin says:

      I’ve gotten by quite handily by only bothering with every other Windows release.

      It seems like they go in a cycle of ‘let’s try new shit’ and then ‘oh god we did that horribly let’s try that again and screw it up less badly this time.’

      Windows 7 is the natural evolution of Windows Vista – which was, at its heart, a lot of good ideas in a really sluggish, bloated, poorly designed package. Windows 7? Basically a refined Windows Vista.

      I fully expect Windows 9 (or whatever they call it) will manage to do everything Windows 8 is doing only without all the hassle and frustration of using a tablet OS on a goddamn desktop computer.

      • Apocalypse says:

        Its not a tablet os on a god damn desktop computer, and I am getting sick of ignorants like you.
        The god damn OS is more keyboard heavy than the previous 3 incarnation, and it is the stupid mouse pushers who complain about that “table os” mostly because they have not used their keyboards. Ever.

        • Premium User Badge

          Cinek says:

          You can get sick of it, sure, but it’s not about ignorance: It’s facing the reality. You’re the one who is ignorant if you pretend to skip all the arguments and just hail the greatness of win 8.
          LOL

          • SuicideKing says:

            Yup, pretty much this.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Ok, I am falling for it. Give me your arguments.

          • SuicideKing says:

            I shouldn’t have to. It’ll be a wall of text, that you may not even read. Everyone’s said it enough anyway.

            In short, M$ made a good OS, then forced a tablet UI down everyone’s throat, and will continue to do so unless there’s strong opposition from the tech community. They broke what wasn’t broken for the heck of it, they’ve depreciated Windows Explorer, even though it was a really efficient way of interacting using the keyboard and mouse, cut features, mashed interfaces together, put in hot corners (should be fired for that, whoever thought it was a good idea) and a whole lot of other things (read around here). I’ll mention the start menu, because hey, while i’m at it.

            It’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Heck, both Apple and Google kept their PC and tablet/phone UI’s separate. M$ decided to merge the PC and tablet UI while keep a slightly separate one for their phones (which i own btw, and dislike intensely).

            Ok, this was too long.

          • Apocalypse says:

            What part of the UI is a tablet UI if the new ui is so much more keyboard driven than before?
            We got a decent amount of new shortcuts, in 8.0 at least a better search as you type interface, a unified access to settings and account management in applications via the charms bar, the same unified interface for using multiple devices, and document and content sharing.

            Furthermore, not tablet or keyboard specific we got a decent working cloud integration, an API for developers to easy use cloud sync and storage, better design guidelines for developers that hopefully will make windows applications as a whole a better experience. We got more speed out of the interface and get a better workflow with more unified short cuts that work across applications.

            But hey, our workflow needs to adapt to the changes, so lets just claim its a tablet based ui and demand to get the old clumsy ui from 1995 back.

        • Faxmachinen says:

          If anyone is being ignorant here, it’s you. It is a god damn tablet OS on a god damn desktop computer, because it also happens to be a god damn tablet OS on a god damn tablet.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Hey, if you want hate windows 8, than do it right.
            It is a god damn desktop system on a tablet and a god damn tablet system on a desktop.

            It is totally crazy to have this high amount of KEYBOARD shortcuts on a tablet system. Who would think that it is a smart idea to hide most useful os functionality behind windows+x , windows+c, windows+q … and this start menu, it is insane on a tablet. What did they thought when they implemented search as you type for a tablet? I mean, hello, tablet users don´t have keyboards. It is a pain just to think about how bad this tablet os is working on a tablet.

            *sigh*
            I know, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

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        Cantisque says:

        But you don’t HAVE to use the tablet-oriented UI, at least with Windows 8.1 it will boot straight to desktop. The only difference is the way the Start button behaves but even this can be changed with Stardock’s “Start8″ which mimics older versions of the Start menu perfectly if you prefer. I am using Windows 8.1 and never am forced to use the modern UI or those awful fullscreen apps or Microsofts content services. With that said, if you are already fine with Windows 7 then there’s no real compelling reason to upgrade at the end of the day.

        • jalf says:

          Saying that you don’t need to use the Metro UI is kind of silly, in that it unless you install more or less shoddy third-party software, it is the only way to launch programs. You can’t really avoid the start screen, and the start screen is very much Metro UI.

          For me, at least, the ability to *start programs* is a quite important usage scenario, and one that I use a lot. (Which isn’t to say that it is necessarily terrible — I haven’t used it enough to determine that. Just pointing out that what is probably the single most important use case for an OS *does* require you to use the “tablet” UI.)

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      Cinek says:

      “Dying OS”? Win 8 is the one.
      It’s a new Windows ME – aberration in a history. Will die equally quick.

  2. Kitsunin says:

    ’tis a shame, but I don’t have any intention of ever upgrading windows. When the time comes and that needs doing I’ll probably just migrate over to Linux, or maybe SteamOS if that works out well. Hopefully by then we’ll have gotten a significant gaming presence over to those lovely non-proprietary waters.

    • d3vilsadvocate says:

      The last thing Linux needs imho is another Linux distro.

      And, frankly, Valve can’t even manage to get their client running properly in a coherent fashion. I really don’t expect anything stellar from their OS to be honest.

      • Kitsunin says:

        Well shrug. I never said I expect SteamOS to be a big success, just saying it’s an option, if it does turn out to be good. For the time being I like Linux but I think user-friendliness still stands between it and mass appeal; it expects you to use the console more than a system should to avoid scaring people away (ie at all,) for instance. If SteamOS can basically be open-source Windows then that could be great.

      • Beelzebud says:

        Utter nonsense. The client runs great. I’m running it on Slackware FFS. If it runs on that, it can run on anything.

      • LionsPhil says:

        The last thing Linux needs imho is another Linux distro.

        It could do without the fragmentation, but Ubuntu is making some troubling breakaway direction decisions (Mir vs Wayland; sticking with upstart vs systemd); Debian is, uh, shall we say classic in its mentality to try to avoid ruffling too many feathers (for example: they eschew sudo by default); and Fedora seems to be just a little too bleeding edge (they last few times I’ve idly stuck it in a VM, it’s been a crashtastic mess, and being the first-adopter of any New Hotness seems to be philosophy). Arch seems to be built for fiddlers (“How do I achieve X in Arch?” “Start by opening a terminal, then…”); Gentoo much the same, plus abandoning its core from-source philosophy by now. Mint is just Ubuntu with a bunch of proprietary packages preinstalled and a few tools on top that are different spins on existing ones. Most of the others are bit players.

        (It’s about choice, see! Honestly, I’m getting the feeling the current sinking-ship-jumping-rats flow is toward Arch.)

        What I expect from SteamOS, though, is a Debian derivative with Steam preinstalled, and possibly even Big Picture mode as the X session. It’s pretty much the ubiquitous base for domain-specific distros, and for good reason—it’s a nice, solid geological feature to anchor to that isn’t going to die or make crazy new decisions overnight, and while dpkg, APT et. al. certainly have their flaws they’re basically solid tools.

        (Despite that, I bet they’ll continue to package Steam effectively outside of dpkg’s control, doing its own thing. I need to check if anything past a launcher stub is even package-owned yet…)

        • LionsPhil says:

          Yup: Steam still plays outside the rules of the system. Try dpkg -L steam-launcher (steam is a transitional package), and then look under ~/.local/share/Steam/—the real install is under your home area*.

          (*Or whatever you’ve set XDG_DATA_HOME to, presumably.)

        • Premium User Badge

          Naum says:

          How is Gentoo abandoning its local compilation philosophy? I’m genuinely confused, given that my own system uses no binary packages whatsoever (even though every LibreOffice recompilation is guaranteed to be tons of fun).

          Other than that, I tend to agree with your assessment of the situation regarding Linux distros. There currently seems to be a lack of straightforward, polished, easy-to-use, no-nonsense distros for beginners, with Ubuntu trying out a couple potentially game-breaking changes every second release and shutting itself off from the rest of the Linux community for no tangible benefit. Canonical seems to be suffering from a severe case of the dreaded not-invented-here syndrome, and Ubuntu’s relatively dominant position on the home market worries me greatly.

      • Lemming says:

        Why do you say that? SteamOS’ existence can only help Linux, not dilute it. Every game that’s made compatible for SteamOS, automatically becomes compatible with Linux overall. You can sit there on Mint or Ubuntu and still reap the benefits as a gamer, without ever using SteamOS.

    • Premium User Badge

      GiantPotato says:

      I’m preparing for this too. It won’t be fun, but at least Linux is an ecosystem that doesn’t seem to hate everything I enjoy about computers as a hobby. Here’s a summary of my conversation with this industry over the last 10 years:

      Me: Hi there. So I like Windows XP overall, but some options are difficult to set up and could be explained better.

      PC Industry: Here, have fewer options!

      Me: Um. Well, I guess this is easier, but now I can’t do some things.

      PC Industry: You don’t want to do those things! We are providing an Experience to the end-user!

      Me: But I bought a computer so I could have a computer, not an experience. If I want an experience I can just watch a movie.

      PC Industry: Yes, you can now watch movies on your computer! It is streamlined!

      Me: I’ve been doing that for 10 years already. Well, since you want to streamline things, how about a more unified PC game ecosystem?

      PC Industry: Here is Games for Windows! It brings the ease and convenience of the Xbox to the PC platform!

      Me: These actually look kind of like Xbox games, on my PC. I think you may have misunderstood me back there. How about PC games?

      PC Industry: Yes, you can now play your favorite games on multiple platforms! Thank you for asking!

      Me: Oh well. At least I can still enjoy independent games.

      PC Industry: Here is the Microsoft Store! It will work to integrate with small publishers and develop titles worthy of the Windows Experience!

      Me: Fantastic.

      • Geebs says:

        Microsoft: “Hi there, we’re pretty great at not breaking backwards compatibility in Windows!”

        User: “That’s kind of you MS, I appreciate it….”

        Microsoft: “instead, we’ve figured out a way to break forwards compatibility!”

        User: “……crap.”

      • SuicideKing says:

        Hah thanks, i had a laugh. :D

  3. d3vilsadvocate says:

    I hated Win8 with a passion. When I had issues with Win7 it was time to move on. I installed Start8 which allows me to completely circumvent the Metro interface and never looked back. The rest of Win8.1 is absolutely splendid.

    Granted, it’s like Win7, just a little faster booting up and all, and I also like the new interface vs WinAero. Other than that there really isn’t a reason to upgrade to Win8 if your Win7 setup runs fine. But once you’ve gotten “rid” of the Metro non-sense, there really isn’t any reason NOT to upgrade to Win7.

    Oh and USB3.0 also ran out of the box with Win8, I never got it to work under Win7.

  4. DrGonzo says:

    I just don’t get why they don’t make the app store available as a download on Windows 7. Wouldn’t it only bring them more income?

    • KevinLew says:

      The intent is to basically force gamers to choose between upgrading and not playing the game at all. It’s the same reason why there’s console exclusives, but Microsoft is taking it one step further and now declaring products as “OS exclusives”. I read this as: “We’ll do anything to get people to move to Windows 8.”

      • merlin11221 says:

        So my Win7 PC’s, Win8 phone, Surface RT, and Android tablets all work fine for their intended purposes… Why is everyone so upset about options? Buy or don’t buy. Deal with or don’t deal with. Give MS some credit for changing things and seeing what we all think! Imagine you wrote the many lines of code or approved any of their decisions to roll it out and see what happens… I do appreciate the fact that my pc/tablet/phone have issues, but at least with those, things can be fixed or worked around. I don’t want to recode or change any OS including Android/Xbox/Media Browser/Media Center/Xbox/PS/Tablet, don’t want to jail break my devices, I just want things to work. Which is what MS, Android, IOS, AMD, Intel, ARM, etc. are trying to do anyway every day. Give the millions of programmers a minute, or weeks, to compile s#@! that works for us so we don’t have to whine! Anyway next month we will be sifting through another thread about how someone would do something better without actually putting work in for the cause… My 2 cents

    • Teovald says:

      2 reasons :
      -A business one (never forget that the businessmen are the ones that call the shot at Microsoft, not the engineers, the designers or the UX guys) : let’s force feed w8 to our user base.
      -A technical one : new os = new APIs and if you don’t have to support older versions you can use them fully. I highly doubt that it is a very compelling reason though. There is not that much of a gap, and even if there were, the w7 userbase is more than big enough to make supporting profitable to the point of being a no brainer.

      • SuicideKing says:

        It’s…not about the new APIs. The only New API’s are for the metro-style apps. Native should work pretty much identically, and stuff like VC++ 2012 redist. packages can be, well, redistributed.

        Peel of metro and all you really have is Windows 7 SP2.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      The Microsoft store mostly exists due to tablets.

      Win8 includes cross-compatible APIs with their tablet version of the software (and Win 8 phones in some cases) so a lot of these “OS Exclusive” games are also compatible with Windows mobile devices.

      Apple is doing very similar things with their Mac store.

      • SuicideKing says:

        Correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think Apple says “oh so you don’t have the latest desktop OS that we offered for free? Can’t play this game, oh no”.

        EDIT: Unless you’re running a 32-bit OS or a non-Intel system, in which case it could be a valid technical reason.

  5. Premium User Badge

    JiminyJickers says:

    I’ll wait until Windows 9. Not upgrading to 8.

    • mlaskus says:

      It’s way faster and with a simple tweak almost indistinguishable from 7. I never even see metro on my laptop.
      Under the hood it also boasts some new APIs and better hardware support – for example much improved USB3 tansfers(I average over 300MB/s read/write performance to my external SSD, still not as good as the internal one connected directly to SATA3 on the board but very respectable).

      • Kitsunin says:

        If I could have it for free I would be all over that…
        …alas

      • LionsPhil says:

        Yeah, but if you wait for 9, you’ll still get that, plus maybe Microsoft will backpedal for you.

        Or maybe they’ll cack themselves harder. But we can hope to get our real Start Menu back, not a start screen, nor a third-party add-on.

        • Vinraith says:

          Indeed. Having gotten a new laptop with 8, faffed around with it for a few days, and ultimately decided that I simply couldn’t tolerate it (having to reboot 4 times to be allowed to access my bios settings was, as I recall, the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back) I really see no reason to ever bother with it again. 9 will either incorporate the lessons learned in this foul-up (as 7 did with Vista’s errors) or I’ll be sticking with 7 for a very long time.

          • SuicideKing says:

            At my college, we had a workshop where we were using USB sticks to boot into linux. Imagine the pain we collectively faced when trying to find how to access the damned BIOS. i think someone had to google it.

        • TillEulenspiegel says:

          I actually gave Win8 several months and still hated it. Sure it works, but it’s very much a tablet UI poorly shoehorned onto a desktop. Even stuff below the surface like Safe Mode is an abomination. Switching back to Win7 was like a breath of fresh air.

          And I’m not sure what people are talking about with respect to boot times. On a decent SSD, it’s something like three seconds on either OS.

      • Meusli says:

        I have heard that some games do not run on Windows 8 due to compatibility, so I will stick to 7 to save on headaches. And if MS wants to make games exclusive to 8 then fair enough, I won’t bother with the game even if it comes crawling back to us after a massive sales failure. Every publisher, sans MS, are going to support 7 so no need to rush and hopefully that will take me nicely up to Steam OS release/stability.

        • Premium User Badge

          Jonfon says:

          Pretty much this. I upgraded my laptop to 7 a few years ago and my desktop, which I got early last year sometime, also has 7. I’ve no need to move again, even if MS are trying their damnedest to create artificial need.

  6. kael13 says:

    Go on. Pirate it. I’ll let you.

    Seriously though, you might as well. Apple now gives away their OS and Linux is free.

  7. luieburger says:

    Win 8 only? Then who cares? SteamOS and Linux are the future of gaming. Heck, if it worked on Win 7, I’d stream it to my Linux PC with Steam’s Home Streaming feature. But oh well. I don’t think I’m missing out on much anyway.

    • Stardreamer says:

      If that’s the way the future is headed then I guess I’m starting the fight against it right here. I don’t want SteamOS and I certainly don’t want Linux. I’m no fan of Microsoft but there isn’t really an alternative I’d be happy with, so I may as well stay in the environment I’ve spent the last 20 years getting comfortable in.

      • luieburger says:

        Feel free to stick with Windows as long as you like and as long as developers continue to make games that run on that platform. It served me well for 27 years, but PC gaming has always been an afterthought for Microsoft. I look forward to playing games on an open OS that is designed specifically for games by a company that loves its customers. I switched to Steam on Linux earlier this year and I use it for 99% of my gaming, work, and home computing now.

        Over a year ago I never even dreamed that I’d be playing games on Linux. Valve is turning the industry on its head. Hold on to your hat.

        The only way to fight it would be for MS to fully support PC gaming on Windows, and somehow tie it into their XBox platform. Essentially… make Win and XBox games the same thing, and merge the communities.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          Honestly I wonder how long SteamOS will be an open OS. It’s completely in Valve’s interest to slowly close it off until the OS is mostly there to let you access steam and steam only.

          People fear Microsoft is moving towards a closed system, but I really think they need to be wary of Valve as well.

          Microsoft actually has more incentive to stay open, being they don’t want to lose their corporate customers.

          • luieburger says:

            “Honestly I wonder how long SteamOS will be an open OS.”

            Here’s the answer. Forever.

            “The GPL requires that anyone who distributes Linux must make the source code (and any modifications) available to the recipient under the same terms.”

          • Premium User Badge

            RobF says:

            Given the main reason for attempting to shift to Steam OS is to give developers the financial incentive to shift across to Linux where we can carry on as we were without Microsoft’s interference, it’s really not in their interests to lock things up at an OS level, even if it were permitted by the license.

        • Stardreamer says:

          So you want to use a lovely “open” OS from the kings of DRM? Yes, sounds like they’ll really fit in with the Linux community.

          The word “gaming” should never become synonymous with the word “Valve”, no matter how much they “love” their customers.

  8. nimzy says:

    Because app store.

    Windows 8 doesn’t even have a version of DirectX that differs from Window 7’s.

  9. Kein says:

    Because Microsoft.

    Take a look back into the past and ask yourself how many times you questioned Microsoft decisions? It is one of these times, when you are utterly puzzled and confused by idiocy.

  10. Cytrom says:

    Microsoft’s goal to turn pc-s into tablets and phones is a perfectly understandable and good direction for 2 reasons:
    -Old fashioned big box PC-s simply cannot keep up with (android / ios) phones and tablet sales, thus if the PC doesn’t change, it will simply die out in the competition and we can say goodbye to our good old pc softwares and games.
    -If a device that fits in your hand, is capable of running all your pc softwares, and can use pc peripherals in home environment just like a regular PC (even wirelessly!), then old fashioned PCs can be losslessly replaced. We would only win with this.

    HOWEVER, there are 2 BIG problems with microsoft’s plans:
    -Microsoft shouldn’t have rushed, hardware is simply not advanced enough just yet to run all our desktop apps on a phone sized device. Which is why windows based tablets are such failures.. but in only 2-3 generations we will get there. hopefully the PC platform can survive long enough for that.
    -The second issue, is that windows 8’s user interface is GODAWFUL. Even android gives a more flexible and powerful interface for the users. It is so cripplingly limited that it drove people to android / ios devices, speeding up the PC’s demise rather than preventing it. In fact I’d rather use android on my PC than windows 8 (only if windows 7 was not an option)

    A solution to save the PC would be to make a new OS that works well on all platforms from phones to desktops with a UI designed by sane, intelligent human beings instead of crack addicted monkeys, and if hardware makers would make an effort to make bigger leaps every year than a 10% improvement.

    • pilouuuu says:

      Windows 8 interface is the same freaking interface as Windows 7 and we even get a cool file transfer window and a fancy and informative task manager.

      Oh, if you mean the Metro interface, yeah it’s pretty awful and nonsensical, unless you have a touch screen which is totally anti-ergonomic, but at least there are some free apps to compensate it. Well, I simply ignore Metro most of the time, so whatever.

      • Cytrom says:

        Thats the thing, if you keep using windows 8 as if it was windows 7 and ignore the “modern ui”, thats a pretty good indication of the failure of said ui, and basically the whole OS. (Btw I’m a -forced- win 8.1 user myself and I also use it as if it was win 7, because its impossible to work with any other way)

        People defend win 8 by saying that the metro ui is just a better start menu, and the rest is the same or better, but microsoft clearly meant the modern ui to be THE interface, hence why win 8 boots into that by default, and as such it is completely unsuitable for ANY platform. It is inferior to the competition even in the environment it was designed for.

        I completely support the idea of a unified, smooth ui for all platforms, even if it replaces the conventional desktop, but it has to be a well designed ui to achieve that. And win 8’s ugly, rigid tiles is the opposite of well designed.

      • SominiTheCommenter says:

        I already have a fancy Task manager on Windows, it’s called Process Explorer and it’s made by Microsoft.
        It’s free and works on Windows 7.

      • SuicideKing says:

        Actually, no, they’ve changed the simple explorer toolbar into freaking ribbons, and removed Aero which i liked.

  11. Premium User Badge

    Adam Dawes says:

    Yeah, not only does it not work on Windows 95, it doesn’t even work on Windows Me!!

    Embrace the future and stop worrying about Windows 8. Now that Windows 8.1 is out the only thing that’s different to Windows 7 is the Start menu. Were you *really* that attached to the Start menu? If it’s not that, what is it that you hate?

    • WrenBoy says:

      For starters Windows 7 is still supported, myself, the world and her mother is happy with it and upgrading is not free. There are other reasons but I dont see why thats not enough.

    • 2late2die says:

      What I personally don’t like about Win8 is that if I were to get it for my desktop PC, I would have to install a third party software to prevent it from ever taking me to a touch-based interface (i.e. Metro). I don’t appreciate the fact that Microsoft released an OS that requires me to fix it so that it operates the way it’s supposed to.

      • Baines says:

        You can set 8.1 to boot to desktop.

        As for the Metro/Start screen, while it was made for touch devices, you can just pretend that it is a full screen icon-based mouse-driven menu. Sure, there is the annoyance where you might need to change Metro app file associations to desktop programs, but that doesn’t take too long.

        I haven’t been using 8.1 long and I’m already getting using to the lack of a Win7 Start menu. Honestly, I never used the Win7 Start menu heavily anyway. Programs I used heavily were either quick launch icons, had desktop shortcuts, launched from double-clicking an appropriate file, launched from another program (such as any Steam or Desura games), or the like. I used the Start menu much more heavily with XP than I ever did with 7.

      • Mokinokaro says:

        If you switch Metro on 8.1 to the “All Apps” view by default it’s basically a full screen start menu in functionality Definitely not a perfect solution, but not terrible either.

        Heck, the start menu has its own issues..

    • Premium User Badge

      PikaBot says:

      “Embrace the future! It’s so future-y it’s just like what you already have, except for that part you all hate, which I’m going to downplay!”

      • Premium User Badge

        Adam Dawes says:

        It’s “just like you already have,” for sure, except that it’s able to run all those Windows 8-only things like Project Spark.

        And I’m not downplaying the Start screen, I’m stating that it is the one significant difference in the UI. I personally rather like it, and the way I use it is identical to how I used the Start menu in Windows 7 (i.e., press the Start key, type a few letters of the program I want, press Enter — that works just the same in both).

        The reason Project Spark only runs in Windows 8 is because it’s using a new application environment (the annoyingly-not-called-Metro-any-more environment) which simply doesn’t exist in Windows 7. Certainly it would be *possible* to get it to run in Windows 7, but it’ll be using a significant number of API libraries that aren’t present in Windows 7. As Microsoft continue to attempt to align Windows, Xbox and Windows Phone, I think this will be more and more the norm.

        • WrenBoy says:

          It’s “just like you already have,” for sure, except that it’s able to run all those Windows 8-only things like Project Spark.

          Somewhat circular reasoning given that is exactly what is being objected to.

        • Premium User Badge

          PikaBot says:

          The norm for Microsoft products like this, maybe. That’s not driven by actual technical reasons, though – it’s just a ploy to try and coax people onto Windows 8. Nobody in their right mind who don’t have Microsoft’s hand in their pocket would develop productivity software for Metro – the full screen apps thing is a workflow nightmare, and given given what a sales flop Windows 8 has been, only a tiny portion of the population would be able to use it.

          Windows 8 isn’t the future. It’s the possible future you ignore until a more amiable future comes along.

    • JonClaw says:

      The price tag that comes with upgrading?

      • Premium User Badge

        Adam Dawes says:

        OK, that’s a fair point. Wasn’t the Windows 8 upgrade just £20 or something when it was first released?

        • Premium User Badge

          Jonfon says:

          The other ‘price tag’ is ‘how much is my time worth’. ie how long would it take me to get my desktop back to the state it is in now if I upgrade to Windows 8, including reinstalling all my applications (even with Ninite.com) and get all my games and saved games onto the ‘new’ machine.

          Is not worth the bother at the mo I’m afraid.

        • SuicideKing says:

          That would buy a pretty decent game for windows 7, or a whole bunch on them during a sale, just saying. :P

          p.s. Money saved is money earned!

    • ramirezfm says:

      So let me get this straight. I have to pay for the upgrade, then waste some time to tweak with it just to make it usable on desktop. Why? Just to be the cool kid with new windows? Because I have my perfectly working copy of Win7 here. It’s booting in 7s from my SSD and it’s working fine with all of my software. Sorry, but Win8(.1) is Vista all over again. Fortunately the next one should be good.

    • InternetBatman says:

      Says the person who never comments here and is trying to sell a book about using Windows 8.

    • qrter says:

      Embrace the future, or at least until Microsoft has a new future it wants to sell to you.

  12. 2late2die says:

    You know what’s gonna be really funny – if when Spark comes out folks discover that the “Windows 8 required” thing is just a link in an ini/cfg file, or slightly more complex a hex code in the executable – and easily hackable away.

  13. rebb says:

    A wild artificially exclusive MicroSoft Product appears.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      It’s probably just like Skulls of the Shogun. An exclusivity period in exchange for funding to make Spark exist at all.

  14. Chris Evans says:

    Awful to see this is exclusive to Windows 8, I can only imagine what it would be like if it was available on some of the legacy Windows platforms.

    Kodu, effectively the predecessor to Spark has been widely used in schools and I would have thought that teachers would be keen to use it too.

    p.s you can read more about Kodu being used in schools here.

    • Premium User Badge

      RobF says:

      Yeah, Kodu gets great use in schools. It’s really a great thing, the combination of the building blocks of Scratch with the ability to have something on screen before you start cooking something up is a really strong one.

      I fear Kodu’s strengths and spread have been more in spite of a lot of MS policy than because of them, let’s not forget that when it dropped originally it was forced to go through the XBLIG process which near crippled it. I’m glad it survived and it’s got the school use it deserved. It’s *very* good for kids.

  15. hery8us says:

    Abby. although Denise`s story is flabbergasting… on wednesday I got themselves a Land Rover Defender from bringing in $9333 this last month an would you believe ten-grand this past month. it’s by-far the most-comfortable job I’ve ever had. I started this 9-months ago and pretty much straight away startad earning over $87… p/h. try here http://goo.gl/f6e95V

  16. Reapy says:

    What is a shame is anytime this gamemaker thing comes up everyone is bogged down how they are trying to cram windows 8 down our throats and never any examination of something that looks to be undeniably cool for making games. I mean, I am annoyed that I won’t be able to play around with this, but I wish I would be able to in some capacity.

    The Kinect motion cap is brilliant, though I believe there have been tools to do this for a little while. Still in terms of making a game, it is really awesome to be able to get a light motion capture studio going with the kinect at a fraction of the cost it would have been to generate your own motion captures in the past.

    Really cool stuff to be honest.

  17. bar10dr says:

    I can’t wait for the steambox to come out, its time we gamers move on from Windows. It’s clear Microsoft have no love for gamers beyond selling new versions of Windows.

  18. seniorgato says:

    Ugh.. So I found a way to make Windows 8 work. Go through all the crazy hoops to make it automatically go to desktop through the round about task scheduler trick.

    Next, install a new Start button.

    And…. Blah. It’s still a half hearted attempt.

    Windows 9 better be back to normal. If it’s like Windows 8…. Geeze… I don’t even know. I guess I’ll try to stick with Windows 7 as long as possible, but….. If this is permanent… ugh.

    • Premium User Badge

      Adam Dawes says:

      The task scheduler trick is no longer needed in Windows 8.1, there’s an option to launch straight into the desktop.

  19. Premium User Badge

    Ham Solo says:

    I might want to upgrade to Win 8 in about 2-3 years.
    That’s the average amount of time in an Win OS all the security holes and bugs are found, battled with and patched out.
    Also this isn’t blind hate speaking, but experience.
    I got Win XP before those 2-3 years were over and it was terrible, I did NOT get Vista at all because in those 2-3 years Win7 came out and was much more resourceful, so I got Win7 after those 2-3 years of its initial release were over as well, and thats what I will stick to.

  20. AdrianWerner says:

    I think Microsoft has full right to do this kind of thing. They aren’t turning other companies’ games into W8 exclusives. They’re just making a game to promote their own new system. Getting angry at it is like getting angry that Microsoft doesn’t port every single Xbox game to PC or that Sony doesn’t do the same with PS3 titles.

    • qrter says:

      Nobody has been argueing about Microsoft’s rights, no idea where you got that from. This forced exclusivity doesn’t benefit the game, it’s solely a corporate deal (and a misjudged one at that). See also: Halo 2, Skulls Of The Shogun.

      You can’t compare this to the Xbox or the PSwhatever – they’re closed systems, the PC is not. Microsoft can make all their own produced games Windows 8 exclusives and it won’t matter – there are tons more games that are playable on Windows 7, so there’s very little incentive to switch to Win8. People switch to the Xbox One and the PS4 because all new games will be for those consoles only. That’s a true incentive.

  21. Premium User Badge

    cpt_freakout says:

    Windows 98 Ultra Superior

  22. InternetBatman says:

    I’m just kind of tired of UI interfaces for the sake of fixing what wasn’t broken. Each version of Office makes word slightly less useable (why does it scroll right to left by default now? why are annotations and headers so goddamn broken).
    Windows 8 offers small increases, but I goddamn hate using it to do simple things like searching (segmented), reading instructions from the internet about your computer (now you go to… full screen shift can’t see the directions anymore, or even just browsing (remember those huge as lists in the start menu, they’re no easier to browse when they’re massive animated squares of unequal size – everyone loves the geocities style of web development, right?).
    Then there’s the gmail update which removed even the pretension of it being a decent email editor. Or there’s the Android update that change the default background screen to the one next to where I had put my icons.

    I know why they make these changes, either PC is a deprecated platform or they need something dramatic to convince businesses/consumers to upgrade. It’s still actively harming their product and creating this weird equilibrium where I have to judge the amount of changes I don’t like vs. the amount I do before deciding to upgrade.

  23. Menthalion says:

    I wonder if the people pushing Windows 8.1 on a gaming website actually play any games on it.

    What about the completely fubared mouse behavior in Windows 8.1 ?
    Microsoft issued an automatic update that fixes the grand total of around 20 games.
    Every other game needs multiple registry hacks each to work remotely correctly.

    Come back here for your evangelizing as soon as games actually work like they should and do under Windows 7.

  24. MadTinkerer says:

    Whenever I read about Win 8 “exclusives” it just reminds me how terrifically unnecessary every new feature of Win 8 is when it comes to PCs. Even Vista had good reasons to upgrade, even if the bad reasons outweighed the good for about two years before they fixed everything. Win 8 is Win 7 with the main interface surgically removed and replaced with an entire other OS designed for tablets and smartphones. Even Apple didn’t try to REPLACE MacOS with iOS.

    This whole “fuck you and your CS degree, your new desktop works like your smartphone now” attitude is pretty much ensuring another (separate) purchase of Win 7 when I finally finish saving up for my next upgrade, and simultaneously making me very Linux-curious.

    • Apocalypse says:

      Even Apple didn’t try to REPLACE MacOS with iOS.

      True, at the same time mountain lion brought all those nice iOS features over to the desktop, session states, way better memory management, better energy management, cloud integration, Gatekeeper, etc

      All those features were copied from Microsoft for Windows 8 and are indeed improvements, well mostly, lets say the UI still needs more polish ;-)

    • SuicideKing says:

      Yeah i know. Microsoft’s stubborn arrogance is probably the most annoying thing ever.

      @Apocalypse: At least Apple is integrating its mobile OS into the desktop OS, not the other way around. I upgraded dad’s macbook from Snow leopard to Mavericks, there was barely any change in the UI, but features had been added, and OH THE GESTURE SUPPORT!

      • Apocalypse says:

        Funny enough is maveric a mess functionally-wise because they broke so much. Though guess they could fix this by now, maybe it is safe to update now.

        And fanny enough your completely skipped lion and mountain lion right there, skipped most of the UI bloat that Apple tried with Lion as well. I don´t know if a quick google search will bring up all the complains about the new ui, but I can tell you from personal experience that I was not happy at all with the lion ui changes. Not to speak of that bloat of skeuomorphic design. Lucky that has been ditched now in iOS and OSX again. Your dad seem to have just skipped over that period in OSX ;-)

    • TheGameSquid says:

      @MadTinkerer
      “Your new desktop works like your smartphone now”
      Please stop saying thinks like that. Just because the OS has an optional overlay that is meant to be similar in functionality across platforms does not mean that your entire OS faces the same restrictions as your Phone/Table t OS. Stop making these things up.

  25. Eclipse says:

    Windows 8 is so much better than 7, from loading times to well, everything, as aero was a piece of crap. Here, I said it.