Fantasy

[Anthile]

Earlier I complained about Dragon Age named Dragon Age simply because it got to have a fantasy buzzword in its title. It is, of course, ironic that of all the settings, fantasy is probably the most stale and unimaginative. You are required to have dwarves that like to drink, elves that like to cuddle trees, orcs that like to murder everyone for no good reason and humans that are just bland. I am very certain people have already noticed and commented on this decades ago so I won't go into that much further.
I guess many of you know countless examples in literature but hey, this is a forum about PC gaming.

What atypical fantasy games do you know?

So far I can only think of:
-Morrowind (the other TES games not such much but still, often seems like something that originated in the 70s)
-Arcanum (borderline example, presents a stereotypical fantasy world that hits the industrial revolution and borders on deconstruction of both)
-Thief series (some steampunk elements as well as supernatural stuff going on, very underrated in the worldbuilding aspect, I believe)
-Ultima/Wizardry/Might & Magic (Ultima had very gratuitious sci-fi elements in the early instances; the other series seem like typical fantasy (and they mostly are) but have strong sci-fi backgrounds. See the infamous but scrapped Forge faction for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Forge_(town)) for how far that went)
-Planescape: Torment (that's kind of the point, I guess)
-Bloodlines (urban fantasy, a criminally underutilized setting for games on the PC)

[Nalano]

You are required to have dwarves that like to murder everyone for no good reason, elves that like to murder everyone for no good reason, orcs that like to murder everyone for no good reason and humans that murder everyone for no good reason.

There. That looks like the DA:O I remember.

[Giaddon]

Pathologic.
The Void.
Sacrifice.

[Land Squid]

Weird. I almost posted a thread just like this. I generally don't really like fantasy in games, but I'm starting to think it is because the fantasy in games is usually so cliched and unimaginative (Tolkein and DnD...). I played the demos for Zeno Clash and Dominions 3 and loved the worlds they created and would ike to see more games try original fantasy.

[Jockie]

The Secret World has a slight WoD vibe to it, but I think it's a pretty original take on Fantasy, obviously it's not out yet though.

[Kodeen]

As much as I dislike mentioning this game because I don't feel it deserves the praise it gets, FF7 had a fairly contemporary feeling fantasy world.

[TillEulenspiegel]

-Bloodlines (urban fantasy, a criminally underutilized setting for games on the PC)
So, so true. Cities are awesome. And they make great fantasy settings, starting with Lankhmar.


cliched and unimaginative (Tolkein
Heh. I know what you mean, but...

The real problem is that generic fantasy (Tolkienesque) borrows the broad strokes of Tolkien without getting into the really interesting bits. They're piss-poor imitations. Elves and dwarves are great, but not when you simply paint them up as wooden caricatures.

Darklands is notable for recreating a mythologically accurate version of 15th century Germany. Everything that people believed in at the time - witches, dragons as manifestations of the devil, the Wild Hunt, demonic influences, strange wood creatures, the power of saints - was true in the game, with a little artistic license. The result felt quite plausible.

Anything Lovecraftian gets bonus points in my book, though I don't think there are any really good PC game examples.

[golden_worm]

Rise of legends had a nice spin on the fantasy setting. The Vinci, with mechanical men, Mayan/Alienesque Cuotl and the Arabian like Alin, magical genies and such.

The game was a by the numbers RTS of the vintage, but the setting could work for another game for sure.

[Drake Sigar]

-Ultima/Wizardry/Might & Magic (Ultima had very gratuitious sci-fi elements in the early instances)
I remember going to the local blacksmith to buy a space shuttle.

[Land Squid]

Darklands is notable for recreating a mythologically accurate version of 15th century Germany. Everything that people believed in at the time - witches, dragons as manifestations of the devil, the Wild Hunt, demonic influences, strange wood creatures, the power of saints - was true in the game, with a little artistic license. The result felt quite

Yeah, I'd love to see historical-fantasy as well. Unfortunately, when I played Darklands before it was just too dated for me too enjoy. I might have another go in the future.

[squirrelfanatic]

Ultima/Wizardry/Might & MagicSpeaking of which, GOG has got the first three Ultima games in catalogue now. Maybe they'll get the other parts as well sometime in the future.

[Wizardry]

Yeah, I'd love to see historical-fantasy as well. Unfortunately, when I played Darklands before it was just too dated for me too enjoy. I might have another go in the future.
A 1992 game too dated?

[mpk]

It really depends on what you mean by fantasy. If you want to stick with the swords'n'sorcery archetype*, then you need to remember that we're still in a world dominated by Middle Earth. That's where dwarves who like to drink, elves who hug trees, evil orcs and bland humans come from, after all, and Tolkien's influence has pretty much reverberated all throughout fantasy literature, movies and games ever since**. Dungeons and Dragons ended up being so successful it only exacerbated the effect.

In the last 10-15 years or so, we've started seeing works born from the minds of the children of people who grew up with Tolkien (see China Mieville, Scott Lynch, Joe Abercrombie Tom Lloyd amongst others) and there's a definite movement away from the Tolkien-template. It's always going to be there, in the background, and it's possibly always going to be the reference for anyone creating a fantasy world, even if it's subconscious.

Because these tropes are familiar, they're successful. That's why they're tropes.

*Science fiction is also a form of fantasy - it just tends to get labelled differently.

**Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, and I don't doubt that someone will speak up <i>very</i> soon to tell me so.

[apricotsoup]

I cannot agree more, I hate how dull fantasy settings have become of late. The races are so similar that to compare it to say sci-fi would not mean that all worlds have to have an angry somewhat barbaric seeming race but that every single one has klingons.

The most interesting game world I've seen in recent years is still Zeno Clash.

Guild wars also has some fairly interesting seeming areas, especially looking into the 2nd.
The level of detail in the background they've given to some of the races seems fantastic and I can't wait to explore it.

Also away from the PC (unfortunately) one of the more fun fantasy worlds I've explored is brutal legend, it's roots are clear but it comes together quite well as a world.

[cosmicolor]

The Shin Megami Tensei franchise and its spinoffs (despite being console-only except that one MMO) has (I feel) a good stab at urban fantasy, with modern settings mixing in with demons from various mythologies and religions, and some of its games link said demons to the character's psyches. Also, if you've ever heard of a little game in which characters shoot themselves to summon demons, this series is host to it.

Also, one other game in this franchise had satanic, resurrected Hitler as a big antagonist. As you would expect, it stayed in Japan until recently, with Atlus bringing over the PSP port.

[icupnimpn2]

I think so many games are Tolkien-esque because the setting and the tropes are so familiar at this point that little suspension of belief is required. Even people that normally stay away from the fantasy genre know the elves and dwarves and so don't have to stretch themselves very far to play along. Its all fantasy but not toooooo fantastic to alienate the masses.

Take a look at something like Little Big Adventure instead. Weird stuff, really quite out there. I think back to some of the jerks I knew in high school. They'd say it either was for kids or was "gay." The stuck up girls would think it was for dorks. And these are the people that I assume make up the mainstream and are generally okay with Tolkien-like content in media, though they wouldn't read books.

[Land Squid]

A 1992 game too dated?

Yes, in terms of graphics and explaining the game. I did play it a while ago though, and I've played and enjoyed a lot of older games since, so maybe I'd be alright with it now. I've got lots to play at the moment though, so it'll be a while if I try it again.


@icupnimpn2

I find it harder to suspend my disbelief with standard fantasy. The fact that all these worlds are supposedly unqiue and different but have all the same tropes is just so jarring to me. But that's just me. I suspect the main reasons there aren't many unique fantasy settings is firstly that people know that 'tolkeinesque' is popular, and secondly the developers have enjoyed playing fantasy games and just want to make more of what they love, rather than innovate (the setting).

[archonsod]

I think so many games are Tolkien-esque because the setting and the tropes are so familiar at this point that little suspension of belief is required.
To be honest I think it's more to do with the fantasy RPG's all taking their cue from D&D, which lifted Tolkien, rather than the familiarity. If you go outside the RPG genre on the other hand there's plenty of fantastical non-Tolkienesque stuff, from Age of Mythology (Greek, Norse and Egyptian mythology) to King Arthur the RPWG (Celtic myth).

Although to add to the original list, Rise of the Argonauts (Greek mythology), Garshasp (Persian mythology), Titan Quest (Greek, again), Sacred 2 (Elves, no dwarves, clockwork robots), Hard to be a God (similar to a Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court - you're a modern guy transported back to the Middle Ages), the Konung Series (historical fantasy) & The Chosen - Well of Souls (Gothic Victoriana).

[Hensler]

I definitely want to play some more urban fantasy outside of Bloodlines, and the upcoming Secret World. The first WoD Vampire game was 1/2 set in modern times and was okay.

[F4T C4T]

After playing through Dragon Age 1, the world of The Witcher has been a refreshing take on fantasy for me. The monsters aren't stereotypical ones, at least in aesthetics and it feels closer to a historical-fantasy setting than anything else I've encountered. I got a strong Highlander vibe from Kaer Morhen and the Witchers when I first loaded up Witcher 1.

The only thing it could do without is the Dwarves really. I don't mean that in a genocide kind of way but that they're the most stereotypical and unimaginative.

[Vexing Vision]

I really enjoy the setting of Gothic 1 + 2. Everything that's non-human isn't exactly pretty - just orcs, wargs, goblinoids and dragons out to punch anything that's not them.

[coldvvvave]

I know, people here probably don't like JRPG-style games, but I just have to mention Septerra Core.

It's not really a Japanese game.

[Hensler]

The Shin Megami Tensei franchise and its spinoffs (despite being console-only except that one MMO) has (I feel) a good stab at urban fantasy, with modern settings mixing in with demons from various mythologies and religions, and some of its games link said demons to the character's psyches. Also, if you've ever heard of a little game in which characters shoot themselves to summon demons, this series is host to it.

Also, one other game in this franchise had satanic, resurrected Hitler as a big antagonist. As you would expect, it stayed in Japan until recently, with Atlus bringing over the PSP port.

In keeping with the previous post's theme, I'd like to say that these games sound right up my alley, but I've never found a jRPG that I've actually enjoyed playing.

[Wizardry]

In keeping with the previous post's theme, I'd like to say that these games sound right up my alley, but I've never found a jRPG that I've actually enjoyed playing.
The SMT games aren't really JRPGs.

[Serenegoose]

The SMT games aren't really JRPGs.

The one I've played (Lucifer's Call/Nocturne) certainly was. Party of 3, attack/magic/item selects, turn based 'both parties stand at the opposite end of a room and take turns' approach, pre-defined characters, limited/no dialogue options, completely linear plot. It was top to bottom JRPG. Can't speak about the others, though.

[cosmicolor]

Ye Olde SMT games were first-person dungeon crawlers with minor c&c and a Law/Chaos theme going on, which Nocturne/LC moves away from, but the DS's Strange Journey brings back. The things that really mark out SMT from other jrpgs are the battles that reward preparation over grinding (or, if you will, trial-and-error), the Pokemon aspect of collecting an army of gods and various other mythological creatures to do your bidding, having at least some control over the ending (Nocturne in particular has at least 6 different conclusions) and more importantly the apocalyptic themes, with the world in the mainline SMT games either being destroyed very quickly or under threat from the forces of Law and Chaos.

edit: Oh yes, they tend to range from "hard" to "punishingly difficult" depending on game.

[Dominic Tarason]

JRPGs often have very vivid, atypical fantasy settings. Two recent gems spring to mind - Xenoblade on the Wii (honestly my favourite RPG in years) is literally set on the bodies of two dead gods - one biological, one mechanical, and life of each kind has grown on their bodies. Your start out in a village on the biological titans shin, and work your way up to the head over the course of the first half of the story.

The also-well-reviewed Resonance of Fate on the 360/PS3 also has a very unique setting. A clockwork arcology, spanning hundreds of miles into the sky, the entire city being a moving, ticking machine.

Who needs orcs and elves when you've got settings like that?

[Wizardry]

The one I've played (Lucifer's Call/Nocturne) certainly was. Party of 3, attack/magic/item selects, turn based 'both parties stand at the opposite end of a room and take turns' approach, pre-defined characters, limited/no dialogue options, completely linear plot. It was top to bottom JRPG. Can't speak about the others, though.
The SMT games I've played (older ones) are basically pure Wizardry descendants. They evolved in parallel to JRPGs.

[gundrea]

I wish you people wouldn't keep giving me game ideas I will half-implement then give up on.

[riadsala]

One of the few things I liked about Elemental was the deliberate lack of orcs, elves, etc. Sadly, the internet thought otherwise, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ele:FE has a lot more of the usual fantasy tropes in it.

[Serenegoose]

One of the few things I liked about Elemental was the deliberate lack of orcs, elves, etc. Sadly, the internet thought otherwise, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ele:FE has a lot more of the usual fantasy tropes in it.

I think a problem with fantasy that reacts against things like elves, etc - is that it does so by becoming less fantastical. Nobody likes elves any more, so everyone's a human now. Frankly I'd rather we kept the elves, orcs, dwarves, but added more nuance to them and actually had them feeling a little more mundane compared to the really weird stuff you could encounter.

[Land Squid]

I think a problem with fantasy that reacts against things like elves, etc - is that it does so by becoming less fantastical. Nobody likes elves any more, so everyone's a human now. Frankly I'd rather we kept the elves, orcs, dwarves, but added more nuance to them and actually had them feeling a little more mundane compared to the really weird stuff you could encounter.

Just because you get rid of elves doesn't mean you can't make up something to put in their place. Zeno Clash is fantastical and doesn't have elves. (I think, only played the demo).

[Skeletor68]

I guess it is easy to lift from stock fantasy tropes because it requires so little exposition from the designers. The meer fact that they've given you these familiar characters is enough to cruise the narrative along without really defining characters and adding any depth. If you're dealing with developers who take the Romero view of narratives in gaming it is all too easy, especially for your art teams

I agree about The Witcher's universe being a refreshing take. Even if they use some of the same characters the enemies out in the wild were pretty interesting and distinctive.

[Althea]

fantasy is probably the most stale and unimaginative.
Bullshit.

Fantasy is not stale nor unimaginative, it's the way it's been implemented that is. You're not required to have any of those elements, but they're ones people are familiar with whether it's due to Tolkien or even Grimm's Fairy Tales. Look at, say, Skyrim. That to me is clearly inspired more by Norse mythology (Which is what inspired Tolkien in the first place) than Tolkien. Dungeons & Dragons also has a huge role to play in what people think of as fantasy.

Dragon Age took a lot of pointers from both The Witcher and George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, but it failed because BioWare were too obsessed with making a dark fantasy rather than a good game. Yes, they changed some tropes and in a good way, such as turning Elves from Glorious Tall Waify Things to Oppressed Shortarses. The Dwarves were also good, and not just because they actually had female Dwarves, but because they took a race often portrayed as noble and honorable, and turned them mostly into backstabbing, political knobheads with Napoleon complexes. At the end of the day, though, it was a fairly generic story that had a lot of "dark" things bolstered onto it. I'm surprised the cats weren't replaced by demonic hounds that drool acid over everything, if I'm honest.

The Witcher itself is an odd one as it was originally written before a lot of modern fantasy. The first appearance of Geralt was roughly 1986, so he's been kicking around a good 25 years now. Unlike English and American fantasy, Sapkowski's work will have been influenced more by Polish/East European mythology along with Germanic lore. He presents a fairly realistic and plausible world that isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

[gundrea]

The Witcher is hardly that odd. People were writing counter-fantasy from the word go. Moorcock countered Conan with Elric. Pullman wrote His Dark Materials as a counterpoint to Lewis' Narnia.

[Nalano]

Fantasy is not stale nor unimaginative, it's the way it's been implemented that is.

This. Just apply Sturgeon's Law in order to wipe away the hackneyed, derivative dreck that amounts for the vast majority of things written. Not everything need apply the LotR or Conan formula. Fantasy isn't a mere series of tropes to be used as a crutch for a boring plot, but a genre based on - gasp - fantasy!

[Land Squid]

Look at, say, Skyrim.

Elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, giants, medieval europe, warriors, rogues and wizards? I think if you took everything that is cliched in fantasy out of Skyrim you wouldn't have much left. Same with Dragon Age. Just renamed, and reshaped, medieval kingdoms.

[cjlr]

Why can't we get a game based on Earthsea? A free-sailing romp through the Archipelago? God I'd love that.

A man can dream, though. A man can dream.

[gundrea]

I tried to learn how sailing worked once to implement the mechanics for a pirate game.

Motorboats it is.

[Hensler]

Another thread on the forum just reminded that they made games out of Nightwatch and Daywatch, two of the very best urban fantasy novels ever written. Reaction to the games seem mixed, and they use the Silent Storm engine so expect a lot of tactics, but if they are anything like the books, they are worth playing just for a change of pace.

[JohnnyMaverik]

Neither of these are RPG's but The Longest Journey and Dreamfall both take place in farly unusual fantasy settings. They follow the now fairly well trodden cliché of a universe divided by science and magic, but other than that it's all fairly original.

[Jockie]

Neither of these are RPG' but The Longest Journey and Dreamfall

Good choices, I don't it was stipulated the games had to be RPGs and on that note, I'll say Grim Fandango had a pretty great setting, loosely based on mexican mythology crossed with classic Hollywood/noire.

[Hensler]

It's a shame that the only Shadowrun game that got a PC release was that shooter from a few years ago. I guess there are always eumlators for the the 2 RPG's - that's a great "fantasy" setting, even if it uses the Tolkein stuff discussed in this thread as its starting point.

[golden_worm]

Was Rifts ever used as a PC game setting? I remember it was very versatile with elements from sci fi and traditional fantasy plus dimension jumping eldrich horrors.

[Lukasz]

there really is not enough fantasy worlds based on antique world. Egypt, Greece, Persia, Rome.
even goddamn hercules and xena tvseries quickly turned into medieval fantasy instead of keeping a 'greekish' feel to it.