BSODs that only happen soon after booting PC, but disappear after reboot?

[awkward_ghost]

Hi all,

I've moved this thread over from the old forum and I sincerely hope that the kind souls who were helping me over there will continue to help me here...

It's not ideal, but here's a rough copy of the contents of the previous thread:



1.
*awkward_ghost*

Hi all,

I'm having BSOD troubles. I'm not going to bore you with WinDbg
and BlueScreenView output (unless you really want me to!), but I
would be interested to know whether anyone's experienced something
similar to what I suspect is going on...

You see, although the evidence is anecdotal at best, it seems to
me that I'm only getting the BSODs within the first 10-15 mins of
turning my PC on and starting to play something. After I've then
rebooted the machine, had a peek inside the crash minidumps to see
if I can garner any useful information (usually not), and started
playing again, the computer will then behave without a problem for
hours and hours on end.

For example, during the Portal 2 ARG Weekend I had a crash on
Super Meat Boy early in the day, but then proceeded to play it for
an ungodly number of hours uninterrupted for the rest of the day.

The BSODs have happened on everything from Super Meat Boy and
Tidalis (on the title screen!), to Portal 2 and Settlers 7. The
crashes are always, always preceded by sound corruption.

So does anyone have any ideas as to why my computer might be
unstable after initial boot but fine afterwards? I was wondering
whether there's a known phenomenon of faulty parts needing to
"warm up" before operating correctly, for example? Or am I just
seeing patterns where there are none?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated!

Cheers,

awk.

Posted 5 days ago


2.
*amandachen*

Without the error string then I've no idea.

But is your computer supposed to crash? No.

Posted 5 days ago


3.
*vandinz*

That is a weird one. You'd expect whatever caused the BSOD to be
there when you reboot but obviously something is changing. Is it a
cold or warm reboot you do? Also, can you write down what the BSOD
reports as the issue? Might help a bit.


Posted 5 days ago


4.
*TillEulenspiegel*

Well, yes, the WinDbg output is hugely informative. There are
many, many potential BSOD causes, and the minidump often pinpoints
the culprit.

You seem to know how to use it*, so just do !analyze -v and stick
the results in pastebin or wherever. Do it for each minidump, if
they vary.

* Be sure to first set your symbol path to:
*SRV*c:\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols*

Posted 5 days ago


5.
*DarkFenix*

Well, when I had intermittent BSOD problems it was my RAM. Usually
my PC would BSOD in a hurry, sometimes it'd run all day. Try
running Memtest, it's a quick, easy and definitive way to find RAM
errors.

Posted 5 days ago


6.
*awkward_ghost*

Hi,

Thanks for replying everyone.

Here are some Pastes of WinDbg "analyze -v" output for a handful
of the BSODs:

http://pastebin.com/ktCTFyQb
http://pastebin.com/LkE9dfQd
http://pastebin.com/BNZDLUyC
http://pastebin.com/3tfdwNTG

(The 3rd one's a bit of an odd one out, just because it's the only
crash I've had where the "Process Name" is actually the name of
the game I was playing - in this case Settlers 7.)

OK, I'll also try to answer some of the other points that've been
raised:

@vandinz, it's almost always a cold reboot that I do, because I'm
running Windows 7 and I have that setting enabled that keeps the
Blue Screen visible once it's happened, and I find that the only
way to actually restart the computer at that point is to hold the
power button down until the system turns off and then turn it back
on again.

@DarkFenix, I've ran memtest (from a boot-CD) for 8+ hours with no
errors reported. I've also ran Prime95 for a bit, and mucked
around with whatever the "fur" benchmarker is called, and another
one that's meant to stress the power supply. Heck, I've even ran
Prime95 whilst simultaneously playing Portal 2. Yet I've never
been able to intentionally stress the system enough to cause it to
report errors, let alone cause it to crash...

Thanks again for your assistance,

awk.

Posted 5 days ago


7.
*Latterman*

try the Perestroika stress tests:
http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/index.php

quick google search suggests driver problems or a problem due to overclocking:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT_8_PROC#sclient=psy&hl=de&source=hp&q=CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT+(101)&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=26b37329d1f04934&biw=1280&bih=877)

this guy was able to fix it by reinstalling Realtek drivers:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iVkdL7xyozAJ:www.techsupportforum.c om/forums/f299/solved-bsod-dreaded-clock_watchdog_timeout-101-a-376874.html+CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT+(101)&cd=2&hl=de&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com

Second Page:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lu1XkcXPRP4J:www.techsupportforum.c om/forums/f299/solved-bsod-dreaded-clock_watchdog_timeout-101-a-376874-2.html+CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT+(101)&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com

Posted 4 days ago


8.
*Kamikaze-X*

i didn't see your specs anywhere in the post, so i'll chuck in my
two-pence worth.

If you have an ATi graphics card, go into device manager and your
sound controllers and uninstall the ATi High definition device, if
you aren't using it. Even if you are, you need to get the proper
realtek driver after removing the ATi one.

Or.... if you have an Atheros based network wifi card sitting idle
doing nothing whilst using a wired connection, take it out if
possible. I had one that was screwing my PC up big time just
because i was using my wired connection instead.

Posted 4 days ago


9.
*awkward_ghost*

Hi,

Sorry, it completely slipped my mind to post the system specs
(duh!). Here they are:

http://pastebin.com/E1y3fbXt

(Appologies, I could not find a way in Windows 7 to export a nice
concise system overview to a file, so I ended up downloading a
freeware program called WinAudit to do it. Please advise if
there's a better way of doing this or if I've missed off some
vital information.)

I do indeed have an ATi graphics card, and there was an AMD High
Definition Audio Device listed in Device Manager alonside a
Microsoft one. I have now uninstalled the drivers for the AMD/ATi
device, so we'll see if that makes a difference...

I do also have a Wi-fi device in the computer sitting there doing
nothing whilst I connect over ethernet instead. It's a
Dell-branded Broadcom device though, not Atheros. And I do
actually have it disabled in the Device Manager - although is that
enough to truly rule it out of any trouble-making?

Continued thanks,

awk.

Posted 3 days ago


10.
*awkward_ghost*

Hello again,

I've only just had the chance to test out a game following
demoving the AMD/ATi High Definition Audio Device, and
unfortunately it hasn't seemed to have made a difference.

Within 10 minutes of booting the PC and starting a game of
Settlers 7 - that's including the time it took for the latest
patch to download - the system BSOD'd again.

Here's the paste of the latest WinDbg analysis:

http://pastebin.com/acTpLdsu

I'm just about to start the game up again to test my hypothesis of
it only happening during the first play following boot-up...

Anyone have any thoughts?

Cheers,

awk.

Posted 5 hours ago
For now that original thread can be found at the following location, although I'm not sure for how much longer it'll be there: http://rockpapershotgun.com/rpsforum/topic.php?id=4700

As for the latest findings on my BSOD woes: following the Settlers 7 BSOD crash I reported earlier today (less than 10 mins after booting the PC), I immediately rebooted the PC and loaded the game again and - as expected - the game's been running for more than 5 hours without a hitch. (In this instance this was following an automatic cold-reboot from the blue screen.)

This is a pattern that I can now repeat with almost 100% reliability: boot PC, load game, game crashes, reboot, load game, play game for hours on end with no problem. As I mentioned in my first post on the subject, these findings did initially seem to be more anecdeotal than anything else, but the more I manage to reproduce the problem the less I'm inclined to believe that's the case any longer...

Any thoughts or theories would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

awk.

[amandachen]

Google "CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT" and maybe you can make sense of it. Good luck.

I don't know if you have C1E enabled in your bios. It's to do with power saving. Maybe try turning that off (not sure what that setting would be called in your particular bios). I can't remember if you're overclocking your system, but try things at their standard settings if you are.

[awkward_ghost]

Hi, thanks for replying.

Nope, I am not overclocking at all. (I forgot to mention that, so thanks for the reminder!)

I will have a hunt around in the bios for that "C1E" setting to see what I can find...

[soldant]

I'd echo disabling C1E and perhaps even the other power-saving states. When I first built my system I'd get all sorts of ridiculous (and seemingly random) BSODs and this solved the problem. CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT is supposed to pop up when a processor becomes locked for some reason, could be hardware or software related. It's an unusual problem and there's not exactly a wealth of information about it (even the MSDN entry for it is pretty much useless) with no clearly identifiable fix. It's probably not RAM because the BSOD is supposed to occur when a processor becomes nonresponsive. C1E might very well be the cause of that or any of the other power saving states.

From Googling it seems some people identify software issues (like services or drivers causing the system to hang) or hardware issues like overheating. I don't know how to use PRCB addresses but if you do, that'd tell you what processor is locking. If disabling C1E doesn't work (might also be called Enhanced Halt State or something like that, I think you find it under Integrated Peripherals in most BIOS menus) maybe check that the CPU is seated properly.

Sorry, I guess I'm not much help after all :)

[Kamikaze-X]

ok, so i don't think you saw my post, and you stillhaven't posted pertinent information such as your config.

1. if you are using an ATi GPU. you need to go into device manager and find the ATi HD audio driver in sound devices and uninstall it. if you are using HDMI and want sound through it, you need to use the realtek ATi HDMI sound driver to get rid of instability.

2. if you have any wireless networking cards that you arent using in your system, it isn't enough to uninstall the driver. you need to remove the add in card altogether. i didn't and it resulted in what you were experiencing.

3. dual gigabit ethernet- if you have dual ethernet sockets, go into your BIOS and disable one of them.

4. if you have an intel processor- disable C1E as mentioned and Intel Speed Step. the changing multiplier may be affecting your RAM's multiplier to the extent that it is causing instability.

[awkward_ghost]

Hey Kamikaze-X, thanks for the reply.

I did actually see your previous message and I did reply to it with what I thought was all the information you asked for. Maybe it just got missed in the confusion of moving forums.

Anyway, here are the replies that I'd previously sent:



9.
*awkward_ghost*

Hi,

Sorry, it completely slipped my mind to post the system specs
(duh!). Here they are:

http://pastebin.com/E1y3fbXt

(Appologies, I could not find a way in Windows 7 to export a nice
concise system overview to a file, so I ended up downloading a
freeware program called WinAudit to do it. Please advise if
there's a better way of doing this or if I've missed off some
vital information.)

I do indeed have an ATi graphics card, and there was an AMD High
Definition Audio Device listed in Device Manager alonside a
Microsoft one. I have now uninstalled the drivers for the AMD/ATi
device, so we'll see if that makes a difference...

I do also have a Wi-fi device in the computer sitting there doing
nothing whilst I connect over ethernet instead. It's a
Dell-branded Broadcom device though, not Atheros. And I do
actually have it disabled in the Device Manager - although is that
enough to truly rule it out of any trouble-making?

Continued thanks,

awk.

Posted 3 days ago


10.
*awkward_ghost*

Hello again,

I've only just had the chance to test out a game following
demoving the AMD/ATi High Definition Audio Device, and
unfortunately it hasn't seemed to have made a difference.

Within 10 minutes of booting the PC and starting a game of
Settlers 7 - that's including the time it took for the latest
patch to download - the system BSOD'd again.

Here's the paste of the latest WinDbg analysis:

http://pastebin.com/acTpLdsu

I'm just about to start the game up again to test my hypothesis of
it only happening during the first play following boot-up...

Anyone have any thoughts?

Cheers,

awk.

Posted 5 hours ago
Please let me know if I've still missed out anything that may be useful.

Thanks for the tip about needing to completely remove the Wireless device as opposed to just disabling/uninstalling the drivers - I'll give that a shot as soon as I get the chance.

Also, I only have one ethernet (gigabit) port.

Cheers,

awk.

[Kamikaze-X]

Hey Kamikaze-X, thanks for the reply.



Thanks for the tip about needing to completely remove the Wireless device as opposed to just disabling/uninstalling the drivers - I'll give that a shot as soon as I get the chance.



awk.

apologies about the snarkiness earlier, that detail did indeed get lost in the switchover.

i would definitely recommend removing the card altogether. as i said, when i went back to wired, even though i had uninstalled the drivers for my wifi card and disabled it in device manager, it still gave me random lockups and blue screens with varying codes relating to RAM, CPU, etc. As soon as i removed it *BAM* i haven't had a crash in about 3 months. Not a single one.

[awkward_ghost]

Hey no worries, I figured that was the case.

Well I wish I could say I was as fortunate as you with the removal of the wi-fi card solution, but it just wasn't to be: after 10-15 minutes of Settlers 7, another BSOD.

Here's the latest WinDbg analysis:

http://pastebin.com/Xw7WXL5H

This was one of the rarer breed however, where the process that crashed is the actual game process - I think I've only had that once before out of the analyses that I've been reporting.

I've yet to try looking for and disabling any C1E or Intel Speed Step or other power saving options, so I'll try that next.

I'll also leave the wi-fi card out to keep it removed from any further equations, seems as I wasn't using it anyway.

Cheers,

awk.

[amandachen]

Okay. You had the same sort of error before. Do you have some weird USB device? For testing purposes, can you remove as many USB peripherals as you can (maybe keep keyboard and mouse plugged in!) or fuck around with the drivers.

But try that after you've fucked around with power saving.

[Jake]

I had some random BSODs that I think were caused by the Hardware Virtulization option in BIOS, you could try turning that off.

[CuriousOrange]

I had a similar problem recently. When I booted up it would often BSOD, then a reboot or two would fix it. I didn't solve the problem as such, but reinstalling on a new harddrive stopped the BSODs, so I believe it was the old harddrive causing the problem.

EDIT- This was in Windows Vista by the way.