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Vexing Vision
06-06-2011, 07:35 AM
I really enjoyed, at their time, the Realms of Arkania trilogy, but I'm having a hard time getting to grips with the horrible UI.

I love Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, but I can quote every single of Annah's and Viconia's lines by heart already.

I grew up with Curse of the Azure Bonds and other SSI modules.


Someone recently mentioned some indie project that might feed my desire for heavily skill-based, complex games, but I couldn't find it anymore. Anyone any recommendations?

For the note, I know pretty much all "mainstream" titles from Ultima to Wizardry to Drakensang to Witcher and it's lovely successor. I know (and like) Spiderweb's Avernum and Geneforge series, but they're becoming more and more streamlined. I played a fair bit of Wesnoth, and "Under a Burning Sun" is a fantastic and well-written cross of RPG and Tactic, but I want my units with Dominion-like numbers. :)

Yes, I play Dwarf Fortress occasionally, but the Adventurer's Mode just doesn't work for me.

No, I don't have a Playstation of any kind, portable or not, but I hear that Fire Emblem may be worth a look into.


So, any recommendations?

cowthief skank
06-06-2011, 07:51 AM
There is perhaps Age of Decadence to look forward to, but from what I remember there is no real release date...

BobsLawnService
06-06-2011, 07:55 AM
I'm playing Drakensang : The River of Time and I'm finding the RPG machanics nice and beefy. Everything is determined by stats and dice rolls, character choices massively affect how you approach the game and quests aren't signposted too much. It's a bit of a throwback to a classic age.

Vexing Vision
06-06-2011, 08:02 AM
I agree with Drakensang: River of Time. The first one was a bit too arcady (and I hated my main character's character progression with the magical heavy armor you could wear whatever class you were supposed to play), but River of Time is really, really nice. I was majorly impressed by the puzzles, too.

Still, played it. More!


And Age of Decadence was the title I forgot about! Thanks! Definitely looking forward to that one.

Squiz
06-06-2011, 08:04 AM
You possibly know this already, but have you tried Pool of Radiance (2) - Ruins of Myth Drannor? It has some boring parts and confusing quest lines, but... man, I am just realising that it was quite the dull experience. Anyways, if you can get it for cheap you might want to have a look at it. Concerning Fire Emblem: It is more of a tactics thing than a real RPG. Maybe give it a try sometime before you buy it.

Vexing Vision
06-06-2011, 08:11 AM
Hmm, I tried Ruins of Myth Dranor when it came out. I'm one of the many people who had to reinstall Windows after that.

May look at it again, but I've never been a fan of Icewind Dale either. I did enjoy Temple of Elemental Evil a lot, though.

Schaulustiger
06-06-2011, 08:17 AM
Have you looked at the Eschalon series from Basilisk Games (http://basiliskgames.com/)? They're pretty hardcore, with the second iteration even sporting a hunger and thirst meter. There's not really much freedom of choice, but the game world is pretty large and the stat system is well thought out.

They have demos for both titles and those are pretty representative of the full game.

winterwolves
06-06-2011, 08:34 AM
Drakensang is pretty good, but if you don't mind indies, Basilisk Games (Eschalon series), Soldak (Depths of Peril) and obviously Spiderweb (Avadon) make pretty good games. I made a RPG too (Planet Stronghold) but is more a JRPG than a "hardcore RPG" ^_^;

KRVeale
06-06-2011, 08:36 AM
You've probably already tried it, but Anachronox?

Vexing Vision
06-06-2011, 08:38 AM
I tried the first Eschalon a while ago and was largely unimpressed. The stats felt surprisingly meaningless, as did story and enemies.

I may have another look at them. And although I probably should have, I didn't really enjoy Avadon but was more glad when it was finally over. That never happened to me in a Spiderweb game before. :(

I don't mind indie titles at all, but I've grown rather unforgiving for UI and general usability. Hence my inability to replay a lot of the pre 2000s great games. I wouldn't be able to find anything in Ultima 1 to 3 anymore!

Squiz
06-06-2011, 08:56 AM
And then there is the PC version of Final Fantasy 7, if that is your thing.

TillEulenspiegel
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
If you haven't played Darklands (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/darklands), go get it now. It's brilliant, and there's genuinely nothing else like it. Most of the interface still works well, if you don't mind a fair bit of keyboard usage.

Wizardry
06-06-2011, 02:30 PM
If you haven't played Darklands (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/darklands), go get it now. It's brilliant, and there's genuinely nothing else like it. Most of the interface still works well, if you don't mind a fair bit of keyboard usage.
This. Though combat is real-time with pause back before "real-time with pause" was an actual term.

Also, I'm sure there are plenty of good 80s/90s games that you have missed, without going too far back into the Ultima I to III time period, as I can understand those games being quite dull and shallow today. So how about Wasteland from 1988? It's a good game and a precursor to Fallout, but with better combat. Have you ever played The Magic Candle trilogy and its prequel, Bloodstone? They came out right at the end of the 80s and into the 90s. They are Ultima-likes in presentation (seriously, have a look at the screenshots) but they are far more complicated, including lots of skills and statistics for each character which you can train in town at the expense of time. You can split your party up and send one or two off to work for money in a town while the rest of your party go about their business solving the game. It's very in depth.

For a newer game, how about Knights of the Chalice? It's an independent CRPG and is very similar to the old Gold Box games and perhaps the Dark Sun games too. It's turn-based D&D, though with a limited selection of classes. Very tactical and very good.

Herzog
06-06-2011, 03:18 PM
Maybe have a look at Temple of Elemental Evil. Havent tried the newer mods that have been released, but it should suit your needs.
For some reason "Burntime" came to my mind too, maybe cause you said hardcore and I remember Burntime as hardcore ;)

Wizardry
06-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Maybe have a look at Temple of Elemental Evil. Havent tried the newer mods that have been released, but it should suit your needs.
Read the thread before posting. Thanks.

Vexing Vision
06-06-2011, 03:28 PM
I have a boxed copy of Darklands. :) And yeah, Burntime was ridiculously hardcore, especially in multiplayer mode! More often than not the two of us (I played with a good friend) never even met before succumbing to random radiation, lack of water, lack of food or just a better equipped bandit. Awesome times. Also, glorious intro movie.

I'll definitely check out Knights of the Chalice. Sounds promising. And I'm very grateful for notifying me about Age of Decadence, which I will most likely begin to support with cash to speed up the development.


Cheers all!

TychoCelchuuu
06-06-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm sure you've played Arcanum, but on the off chance you haven't, Arcanum. You might also look in to Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption. Gorky 17 looks fun but I've never played it.

BenWah
06-06-2011, 08:44 PM
I second the vote for Arcanum, get the unofficial patch.

I also think Fallout 2, with the restoration mod, is amazing.
This isn't really a mod so much as a *massive* bug patch that also restores and completes some content the developers couldn't finish but clearly intended to.
Incredible amount of work went into this.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56087&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=480d5e24b9830cda4b2eadf566451437

Jagged Alliance 2 community just finished the 1.13 patch update last week, took 3 years of work!!
This is perhaps more tactical than RPG -- but it is nonlinear, party & turn based, and incredibly fun!! It certainly fits your description of wanting a game that is "heavily skill-based, complex".

http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/w/page/4218339/FrontPage

BenWah
06-06-2011, 08:48 PM
My first post, and i'm having a war with the editor to put line breaks in.

icupnimpn2
06-06-2011, 11:53 PM
No, I don't have a Playstation of any kind, portable or not, but I hear that Fire Emblem may be worth a look into.?

Fire Emblem is a Nintendo thing. It's pretty much a series of map-based tactical battles with some branching in-between, but not really an RPG, per se. Games like Fire Emblem and Shining Force are probably the inspirations for Wesnoth. If you like Wesnoth, Fantasy Wars and Elven Legacy are very much in the same vein and often go for cheaps.

Oh, and there's the freeware Vantage Master (http://www.falcom.com/vantage/index_e.html) in the same vein.

Mihkel
06-06-2011, 11:54 PM
Play Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Can be buggy but it's totally worth it.

imirk
06-06-2011, 11:57 PM
If you are into a different kind of "hardcore" RPG there is Marvel Brothel

Vexing Vision
07-06-2011, 06:03 AM
I also own the original copy of JA 1 and JA 2. I've been at this way too long! :)

While I love Fallout 1+2, I never managed to make Arcanum work for me. Which is odd, as I like the steampunk setting, but something just doesn't click... and Vampire was way too buggy for me. KOTOR 1 was the only game I played despite crashing at every other screenchange, because it was just so good...

Oooh, and new Vantage Master patch! I need to check that out. Also, is "Marvel Brothel" real? Morbid curiousity abounds, but I really, really, really don't want to google that. :D

winterwolves
07-06-2011, 07:54 AM
Haha almost forgot about Vampire: Bloodlines. It was an amazing game, I finished it anyway despite the bugs!

Anthile
07-06-2011, 09:03 AM
Well, let's see. You could play Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. It's a mostly forgotten game by SSI made in 1994 and features the rather unique Dark Sun setting, a D&D campaign world like Forgotten Realms, Planescape or Ravenloft, notorious for its deadliness. Remember the cannibal halflings from the planar sphere in Baldur's Gate 2? Dark Sun. Psionics, muls and gouges!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0ZrVJtDed9g/TdO5Dg5jtAI/AAAAAAAABEE/SAZn3kvSfQM/s1600/936full-dark-sun--wake-of-the-ravager-screenshot.jpg

BenWah
07-06-2011, 09:07 AM
You know you can fix most all those bugs in vampire bloodlines just by installing this "unofficial" patch.
They're on version 7.5, been worked on for ages

http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

amandachen
07-06-2011, 09:22 AM
ADOM is kinda hardcore and worth a play. The problem with roguelikes is their awful controls, though ADOM isn't all that difficult to pick up.

lunarplasma
07-06-2011, 09:23 AM
Well, let's see. You could play Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. It's a mostly forgotten game by SSI made in 1994 and features the rather unique Dark Sun setting, a D&D campaign world like Forgotten Realms, Planescape or Ravenloft, notorious for its deadliness. Remember the cannibal halflings from the planar sphere in Baldur's Gate 2? Dark Sun. Psionics, muls and gouges!


And THRI-KREEN! Who wouldn't want a giant preying mantis Fighter in their party?

Wolfenswan
07-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager.SO GOOD.


Play Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.Get the fanmade patch by wasp (http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php). Fixes most if not all of the bugs and flaws the vanilla version had.


ADOM is kinda hardcore and worth a play. The problem with roguelikes is their awful controls, though ADOM isn't all that difficult to pick up.

Regarding roguelikes i'd recommend Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/) (nice Tileset, easy to learn, mouse control and lot's of content) and IVAN (http://ivan.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html)(Iter Vehemens ad Necem: Violent Road to Death in latin).It's smaller, more wacky and more brutal than StoneSoup but i love it. General FAQ here (http://www.attnam.com/wiki/Questions_and_Answers).

Wizardry
07-06-2011, 02:43 PM
Well, let's see. You could play Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. It's a mostly forgotten game by SSI made in 1994 and features the rather unique Dark Sun setting, a D&D campaign world like Forgotten Realms, Planescape or Ravenloft, notorious for its deadliness. Remember the cannibal halflings from the planar sphere in Baldur's Gate 2? Dark Sun. Psionics, muls and gouges!
Wake of the Ravager was always worse than Shattered Lands. Plus, I've already recommended both in this thread already. Well, mentioned them. Sort of.

icupnimpn2
09-06-2011, 07:16 PM
Wake of the Ravager was always worse than Shattered Lands. Plus, I've already recommended both in this thread already. Well, mentioned them. Sort of.

Wikipedia has both Dark Sun games listed as having been released as freeware, so don't feel bad downloading them from abandonware sites.

Wizardry
09-06-2011, 07:19 PM
Wikipedia has both Dark Sun games listed as having been released as freeware, so don't feel bad downloading them from abandonware sites.
I know they are on abandonware sites. Basically all the old RPGs are. But I never knew they are officially freeware now. Wikipedia doesn't mention it.