God damn it.

[sabrage]

Futuristic sci-fi noir was one of my favorite things. Between Hard Reset, Prey 2, DX:HR, and now the new Syndicate (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444322), it's just gonna become the new WW2.

[soldant]

So basically, today's current plans for making games is:

1) Take a beloved old game, like X-COM or Syndicate
2) Completely ignore everything that made it awesome
3) Make a crappy FPS
4) TROLL ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!

I am not happy. You've ruined my day. Thank you.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Non-FPS/TPS games just aren't contemporary. Don't you know anything?

They'll never ruin cyberpunk as a setting, though. Nuh-uh. They like using the aesthetics, oh yes. But rarely the interesting details, and never the themes. There's also a disturbing lack of Space Rastas.

[soldant]

Non-FPS/TPS games just aren't contemporary.
Does... does this make me a hipster? And if so, will you kill me? Please make it quick, I don't want to suffer.

[Walsh]

LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR! This latest outrage must not stand! Burn em all!

[Rii]

Don't forget ADRIFT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08DzSsJVVO0&feature=player_embedded).

[QuantaCat]

This is a double post: there is someone complaining about syndicate already over here (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1378-Argh!-Syndicate-lives!-%28and-it-s-a-FPS...%29).

[soldant]

This is a double post: there is someone complaining about syndicate already over here (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1378-Argh!-Syndicate-lives!-%28and-it-s-a-FPS...%29).
Actually, this thread came before the other one.

[QuantaCat]

Oh well. Im for merging anyhow, not deleting.

[coldvvvave]

Futuristic sci-fi noir was one of my favorite things. Between Hard Reset, Prey 2, DX:HR, and now the new Syndicate (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444322), it's just gonna become the new WW2.
It's popular thus it sucks, right?

[cowthief skank]

It's popular thus it sucks, right?

And we already KNOW that a game that hasn't even been properly announced will be rubbish.

[Whitmore]

Planescape Torment remade into Hack and Slash cyberpunk type game next?

[Drake Sigar]

So basically, today's current plans for making games is:

1) Take a beloved old game, like X-COM or Syndicate
2) Completely ignore everything that made it awesome
3) Make a crappy FPS
4) TROLL ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!

I am not happy. You've ruined my day. Thank you.
Well someone is buying them. I don’t feel compelled to bend over at all.

[Flint]

I'm all for more futuristic sci-fi stuff.

[Mihkel]

Considering that it's from the devs of Riddick I'm liking it.

[hamster]

Devs of Riddick? Sold.

Btw has anyone played the original? What was the original Syndicate like?

[coldvvvave]

I'm so angry at you, people. It's like I'm on NMA again. At least they had a point about Fallout being a RPG( Wizardry will disagree but I don't care), but Syndicate wasn't even a strategy game. It could have been first/third person and gameplay won't change at all. Yes, I'm posting this everywhere until this drama ends. Play it. Watch it on Youtube. I'm so angry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgyvQvihYi0&feature=related

[burningpet]

i dont get what about this real time tactics gameplay movie has you saying its natural to be remade into an FPS.

[coldvvvave]

i dont get what about this real time tactics gameplay movie has you saying its natural to be remade into an FPS.
Where do you see tactics? It had direct control ffs. You are clicking enemies to death with minigun fire in this game.

[Drake Sigar]

Syndicate was a a classic strategy game? For real? I thought it was pretty much a top down shooter with some upgrades and simple tactics. I played it parallel with Red Alert back then and thought that latter was a strategy, not former. I'm pretty sure that a winning formula was "Equip all agents with miniguns and machinegun everyone on the screen". Or burn everyone. Or disintegrate with lasers.

Seriously, did you even play it?
Ok, bu-


I really like to punch my LCD reading this crap about Syndicate being some sort of sophisticated strategy game. It wasn't. It was a top-down shooter with short missions set in sandbox-ish yet pretty much empty environment. Like Deus Ex, it was made by throwing random ideas in a blender in hoping that it works, games are not made like that anymore. IIRC Moulinex didn't even like the game, for what it's worth. For petes sake, go play it before posting this drama, it will probably run fine with dos-box. Goddamnit, you people.
Hang on a se-


I'm so angry at you, people. It's like I'm on NMA again. At least they had a point about Fallout being a RPG( Wizardry will disagree but I don't care), but Syndicate wasn't even a strategy game. It could have been first/third person and gameplay won't change at all. Yes, I'm posting this everywhere until this drama ends. Play it. Watch it on Youtube. I'm so angry.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, shut up! Nobody cares what Syndicate was, what matters is it’s yet another franchise that has been commandeered by those who are convinced all the money is in the FPS genre. If this keeps up we’ll have less choice than a Welsh fish and chip shop.

[coldvvvave]

Nobody cares what Syndicate was
But I care becasue I played it and liked it. Whining in this and other threads offends me.

[Unaco]

If whining offends you, you should probably get off the internet unless you're prepared to be offended, a lot.

Syndicate was an amazing game... it was brilliant. It did what it tried to do masterfully. But it wasn't just the game play that did it for Syndicate... it was the setting. The trenchcoats, the persuadatron, the neon, the drug fuelled cyborg agents, the brutality, the ruthlessness, the atmosphere. If they can recreate that, make me feel like I'm in the Syndicate world again, I'll be happy.

[burningpet]

I am not sure, because boy, it has been a long time since i played syndicate, but i think that it wasent perfectly executed. with the option to control 4 agents, each suited with different augmented technology, the gameplay could have been much more tactical.

it may not be the worst game to remake as a FPS, but it sure is the best game to expand on its Real time tactical elements. and those are far more interesting than a Deus Ex rip off.

so when i "cry" about syndicate becoming an fps i am not crying about the "ruining" of a franchise, i am crying about the lose of a potential this franchise had regarding specific theme and game mechanics. it wasent perfect as a squad tactical game, but it had the potential to become just that.

[Unaco]

So basically, today's current plans for making games is:

1) Take a beloved old game, like X-COM or Syndicate
2) Completely ignore everything that made it awesome
...

Have you seen the screenshots? Looks to me like they aren't ignoring what made Syndicate awesome at all. Dystopian future-noir setting, Corporate Cyborg agents, hover-vehicles, brutality, violence, and Miniguns!!! For me, and many others, what made Syndicate was the atmosphere and the setting, rather than the actual game mechanics (which were great, but for me where not WHAT Syndicate was).

[TillEulenspiegel]

rather than the actual game mechanics (which were great, but for me where not WHAT Syndicate was).
So the game is the setting, not the game? What?

[Unaco]

So the game is the setting, not the game? What?

No... The essence of 'Syndicate' is the setting, not the game. The franchise/IP/world is the setting and the atmosphere, and not the specific ways in which they are implemented and in which you interact with them.

[TillEulenspiegel]

The iconic feature of Syndicate was arguably the persuadertron, which is a game mechanic.

The rest of the setting details are largely generic cyberpunk fare.

[soldant]

I'll wait to see whether or not you're right, but so far all I see are superficial similarities, most of which stems from "It's Syndicate". I doubt that if you replaced the title with something else, like "High Tech Rampage of Technical Technics", there wouldn't be a great deal to link it to Syndicate.

[burningpet]

Of course the game mechanics is also a large part of the essence. "the medium is the message". the whole tone is about control and you controlling mind programmed agents is what delivering just that. there are a lot of subtle things people do not recognize that sets the atmosphere rather than the obvious written plot and drawn tile set. for example, the slow, somewhat robotic movement of the agents, the strict road driving of the hover car, it all adds to something which i doubt could be reproduced in a First person perspective.

[Casimir Effect]

The setting of the game may be the same but I can see the character being lost completely. Syndicate put you in charge of 4 agents in a dystopian world where your goal was to make your corporation the most powerful. Collateral damage did not matter in most missions. Accidently killed 50 civilians (& cops) all to take down 2 enemy agent? Fine.
Brainwashed an army of civilians to act as a meat-shield for you? No problem.
Destroyed an entire building just to get a guy inside? Whatever.

But this game is going to give you a central character to play as which means all the shit that goes with that in an FPS. Already a quote from the description says
"Take on the role of Miles Kilo, Eurocorp's latest prototype agent, and embark on a brutal action adventure of corruption and revenge."
In other words, become a good guy and fight against the oppressive regime after they did something to rattle your morals. In Syndicate your agents didn't think for themselves. At all. They wouldn't care about corruption. And the thing is, the whole start misguided and evil but become good is probably the best I can hope for because the alternative is going to be a Morality Meter! Play the game how you want! In the character you want! As long as it conforms to our 2 narrow definitions, that is.

Don't get me wrong, I do really, really hope this game is good. I loved Syndicate and I did want a remake or new game. But did the world of gaming really need another sci-fi FPS? Regardless of what that other guy says, there was strategy in Syndicate. You couldn't just load up on miniguns and win. The game required careful planning to succeed and, while the game did devolve into a massive shootout at times, those few minutes you spent at the start of the game looking at the map, the objectives, finding obvious enemies and noting the city layout were absolutely invaluable. I hope this FPS allows for some of these things but I am massively doubtful.

[coldvvvave]

Just read the thread on Neogaf and some guy said that Syndicate was turn-based.

This is getting more and more hilarious.

[cjlr]

that stuff there

See, now, that's a reasonable post. Calm, accurate, thought-provoking... I think you're right that a brain-dead rehash of decades old tropes is exactly what we're going to get, plot and setting wise. Syndicate wasn't exactly the most original fish in the sea, but for one, cyberpunk was less than ten years officially going at that point, and two - it's key point was, as you said, this: Syndicate wasn't about one man giving a fuck in an uncaring world. It was about NOBODY giving a fuck in an uncaring world.

I guess one could make a decent FPS on such grounds, but what's lacking is some depth. Controlling one character is, like, one quarter the tactics of controlling four. That's just science. An overhead camera gives you this little thing called situational awareness. Tunnel vision FPS console FOV does not.

The idea of changing perception via the control chips (like Syndicate Wars) could be a very neat gameplay device.

Fuck online, too. There's probably no fucking LAN option, either. I just want to play a good game. By myself. Sure, sometimes I do manage to get three other people interesting in trying something, but shit, what a pain in the ass to make that necessary.

Also: Miles Kilo is a silly name. THEY NAMED HIM AFTER UNITS OF MEASUREMENT.

[Unaco]

One unit of measurement, and one metric prefix, actually.

[coldvvvave]

Also: Miles Kilo is a silly name. THEY NAMED HIM AFTER UNITS OF MEASUREMENT.
Welcome to Coalition JC...

[cjlr]

One unit of measurement, and one metric prefix, actually.

Yes, to be pedantic. Though, here in Canada, 'kilo' is used all the time to mean simply 'kilogram'. I don't know if that usage is anywhere near common anywhere else.


Welcome to Coalition JC...

But JC stood for Jesus Christ! That was silly, but it almost made sense.

[soldant]

Yes, to be pedantic. Though, here in Canada, 'kilo' is used all the time to mean simply 'kilogram'. I don't know if that usage is anywhere near common anywhere else.
Same in Australia. "Gimmie a kilo of ham. Om, nom, nom, all for me."


Welcome to Coalition JC...
I forgot to give Manderly my resignation.

[Nalano]

I fucking called it.