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squirrel
13-09-2011, 04:48 AM
Don't screw us, French. We have already had enough of the nuclear trouble from the Japs. Now the damn Japs are silent on their nuclear mess, hope we would forget about it while radiation is still leaking and problem is getting more serious. I have be avoiding Pacific seafood for months. Don't pollute the Atlantic Ocean, please.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14883521

Nalano
13-09-2011, 05:04 AM
Will you also be holding your breath in case bad particles in the air get to you?

squirrel
13-09-2011, 05:32 AM
Come on, Nalano, it's radiation we are talking about, not something we can take lightly.

And since you are living an the East coast, I dont know what's happening to the US West coast, but the whole Pacific has been polluted with radiation by our beloved Japs.

MD!
13-09-2011, 05:49 AM
I'm not sure how much you mean by it, but the way you're referring to Japan makes me pretty uncomfortable. (e.g. 'the damn Japs'; 'our beloved Japs')

On the article: I hadn't heard about this,* so thanks for the link.

*'Oh man, 214 unread items in my Google Reader "News" category... ok, Mark All As Read. Subscribing to a range of sources keeps me well-informed!'

NecroKnight
13-09-2011, 06:50 AM
Well it's not that serious. It's actually an industrial accident, not a nuclear. So there is no reason to worry about radiation.

Cable
13-09-2011, 08:27 AM
I kind of agree with MD! and and also it wasn't really their fault a massive tsunami hit their country not only damaging a nuclear reactor but killing thousands of people as well.
I don't know heaps about what happened in Japan but I think the leak although major didn't cause serious radiation contamination of the ocean or anything. I think people are understandably cautious about radiation but it is still possible for these things to get blown out of proportion. (I may be wrong)

squirrel
13-09-2011, 09:03 AM
I kind of agree with MD! and and also it wasn't really their fault a massive tsunami hit their country not only damaging a nuclear reactor but killing thousands of people as well.
I don't know heaps about what happened in Japan but I think the leak although major didn't cause serious radiation contamination of the ocean or anything. I think people are understandably cautious about radiation but it is still possible for these things to get blown out of proportion. (I may be wrong)

Of course I am not referring to their fault for the earthquake and tsunami. However, that nuclear power plant had been classified by the United Nations as a not up to standard one, since it could not withstand Level 7 earthquake (which was proved to be a very very correct evaluation). Plus, the US government offered to help. The US President even phoned directly to urge the Japs' Prime Minister to accept US military aid to help cool down the reactors (US military had been standing by for that critical moment). Yet Japs' government gladly declined the offer, said they were more than capable of to clean up their mess. Some of them even blamed US soldiers for abandoning them when things went out of control...... few days after they turned down US offer for assistance!!

There is rumor circulating that Japs were actually extracting weapon grade nuclear raw material from that plant. They rather gambled to preserve those precious weapons.

Oh, I guess it's Mr. Obama's fault then. He'd phoned the wrong guy. He should'd phone the Japanese Emperor to issue an imperial edict to accept US's assistance in the first place.

Plus, you are all wrong that the situation has been under control (I mean in Pacific, not the accident in France). In fact, radiation pollution has been too serious that even Tokyo's tap water has been contaminated. Good luck with anyone who travel to East Japan "just for fun". Don't think it's okay just because mainstream media is silent on the issue. We have detected extraordinary high level of radiation over here in coastal China. So, you mates trust the Japs?

Harlander
13-09-2011, 09:29 AM
There is rumor circulating that Japs were actually extracting weapon grade nuclear raw material from that plant. They rather gambled to preserve those precious weapons.

Citation.
F##king.
Needed.

(Also, do you have to keep saying 'the Japs'? It's, frankly, about as creepy as MD says.)

Cable
13-09-2011, 09:32 AM
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of all the details of the situation. It does seem rather ridiculous the way they refused assistance even though they were obviously stuggling to get it under control.
So these radiation levels though, are they still within accepted safety standards or are they causing illness?

SeanybabeS
13-09-2011, 09:33 AM
Oh god, oh god, oh god. Supreme cringe at every use of the word "Japs". Please stop using it "Japan's" or "the Japanese" takes no more time to type.

Oh and Squirrel - meet hindsight. Maybe the Japanese made some poor decisions but I'm positive they took all the steps that they thought were correct at the time.

squirrel
13-09-2011, 10:03 AM
Oh and Squirrel - meet hindsight. Maybe the Japanese made some poor decisions but I'm positive they took all the steps that they thought were correct at the time.

Of course my comment is a hindsight, I am not even a nuclear scientist. However, the American government's decision is not, and from her reaction you would realize how crazy and foolish those Japanese (okay, forgive me for using ethnic slur, I would start trying to refer to them as Japanese from now on) are. During that critical hours the US military made two decisions in two stages. First when the reactors became unstable, its supreme commander immediately urged the Japanese government to accept cooling agents issued by the US forces in Japan. Once the Japanese declined this offer, the US military made another quick decision - to pull out. It's quite funny few days later the Japanese government called for US government to aid cool down the reactors and this time US said no, obviously since the situation had been out of everyone's hands.

And I am negative they would do right things to correct their mistakes. Come to think of it, SeanybabeS, if you have a 100 million population over a radiation contaminated zone. Food supplies, water supplies, everything is contaminated. Even raining may contain radiation. You are the Prime Minister, what would you do? What the Japanese government is doing right now is obviously pretending as if everything is under control. You cannot smell radiation, you can't see it, you can't taste it. So they must figure out if they keep their mouth shut, stupid commoners (not just commoners of Japan, but all its neighboring countries) would not sense anything wrong. China is adjacent to Japan, so we took the first hit. But remember, all Pacific coastal countries will not be safe, thanks to Japan.

Cable
13-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Just found this article which seems to give a pretty good summary of the current situation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/09/fukushima-japan-nuclear-disaster-aftermath

The comments are really interesting as well. It seems that although there has been radiation leaked it probably won't have incredibly serious consequences but that the main problem in the Japanese government intentionally keeping their citizens in the dark so they end up living in fear of things they don't really understand.

wcaypahwat
13-09-2011, 10:37 AM
Just on a side note, the french were pumping the pacific full of radioactive contaminants twenty years ago. The seafood isn't any less "safe" now as it was back then.

SeanybabeS
13-09-2011, 11:22 AM
Fair enough Squirrel, you clearly understand this situation better than I do. I just fail to recognise that a country would purposely work to the detriment of it's people.

squirrel
13-09-2011, 12:24 PM
I sympathize Japanese. Seriously, I really do. They have been struggling for generations for their own well-beings, surviving one disaster after another. Earthquake, tsunami, civil wars, foreign invasion, not that one thing common Japanese should deserve, yet they live up to these days through a history of suffering, and now they end up like this. The worst scenario would be Tokyo becoming uninhabitable. You know what? Japaneses have an old saying, that women from Meiji were exceptionally strong. They united together to build a modern nation. Even Japanese women, who were traditionally considered weak, had to overcome their weaknesses. Yet they don't have the strength to resist natural forces. We Chinese have another old saying, "How much you can eat, and how warm you clothing is, has been pre-determined by the god. Don't ask for more as you cannot afford those." Frankly, even if the Japanese secretly developed nuclear weapon (I cannot be sure if they do it or not, CIA knows the answer), they have good reason to. All they want is true national independence. No matter how great their economic power is, Japan is still an American puppet state. Financial disaster in late 1980s has proved that what the Americans granted them, Americans could take back too. The "Loss Decade" (and up to this day it has been two decades and more) has destroyed Japanese morale. I must say, that they dont deserve this. Looking at nowadays' Japan, I would wonder, what would our future be?

One last warning. Avoid travelling to Japan if you have no business there. At least dont go to Eastern Japan, dont go to anywhere east to Osaka.

archonsod
13-09-2011, 12:43 PM
It seems that although there has been radiation leaked it probably won't have incredibly serious consequences but that the main problem in the Japanese government intentionally keeping their citizens in the dark so they end up living in fear of things they don't really understand.

It's a general problem with the media, particularly when radiation is involved. The irony is that thus far anyone living next to Fukushima who stayed there for the duration will still have received less radiation than someone living in Aberdeen over the same period, but there's no calls to evacuate Aberdeen. Well, not due to radiation risk anyway.

soldant
13-09-2011, 12:59 PM
They have been struggling for generations for their own well-beings, surviving one disaster after another. [..] foreign invasion [...]
Well, they did decide to deliberately attack the US and join with the Axis powers. That doesn't necessarily justify the subsequent nuking, destruction and occupation of Japan at the end of the war, but it's a bit ridiculous to lump "foreign invasion" (or civil war for that matter) with things like earthquakes and tsunamis. Back on topic: I think the reason why these disasters are so terrible for Japan has a lot to do with the population density of some of those places.

People treated the Fukushima plant like another Chernobyl. Both were given an INES level of 7 (considered a major accident) but the two don't quite compare (in my opinion) in terms of the dangers. Again I believe the major issue is population density; even a lower level failure in a place with such a high population density as Japan would be a major problem, but that doesn't mean that the ejection of radioactive material (and wider health effects) would be as bad as Chernobyl. You have to take the accident within the context. But the anti-nuclear groups will skew the hysteria in their favour just as much as the pro-nuclear group will.


One last warning. Avoid travelling to Japan if you have no business there. At least dont go to Eastern Japan, dont go to anywhere east to Osaka.
Oh, why's that?

NecroKnight
13-09-2011, 02:00 PM
As I know, the Japanese government was warned by some geologists that there would be an strong earthquake, but they ignored it for some reason.

Nalano
13-09-2011, 02:14 PM
There's a word missing from this discussion that really ought to be used: Alarmist.

Lukasz
13-09-2011, 02:37 PM
There is rumor circulating that Japs were actually extracting weapon grade nuclear raw material from that plant. They rather gambled to preserve those precious weapons.

Okay. WTF is that?

What precious weapons? Japan is one of the biggest anti-nuke countries in the world. They do not have any "precious weapons". You better throw some source of that rumor mate!

Anyhow

So much panic from you mate. The water contamination of water is negligible. we get more rads from concrete from which our cities are build, from eating bananas, short flight, not to mention going to a dentist and having an xray.

another unnecessary comment of yours is " Good luck with anyone who travel to East Japan "just for fun" " There is no proof whatsoever that you are in any danger. Heck. if you are living in busy city such as NYC, LA, Paris, Moscow, Bejing, HK, Seul... etc. going to east japan and hanging around in some crappy town of 5000 peeps would be certainly healthier than your normal life

It is also a bit ironical that it comes from a Chinese. China is way more polluted that even the worst parts of Japan atm so worry about your country first, then attack another.

Too much panic from you my friend.

Rii
13-09-2011, 03:49 PM
Frankly, even if the Japanese secretly developed nuclear weapon (I cannot be sure if they do it or not, CIA knows the answer), they have good reason to. All they want is true national independence. No matter how great their economic power is, Japan is still an American puppet state. Financial disaster in late 1980s has proved that what the Americans granted them, Americans could take back too. The "Loss Decade" (and up to this day it has been two decades and more) has destroyed Japanese morale.

I'm one of very few who are predicting that Japan will select the Typhoon over the Super Hornet or F-35 to replace its F-4s. One of the reasons for that prediction being that it would serve to signal Japan's independence from Washington, where a variety of circumstances conspire to make doing so at this time and in this fashion a particularly attractive prospect.

Needless to say 98% of the internet disagrees with me. But then I was right about India so y'all sceptics better watch out. ;)

sinister agent
14-09-2011, 02:28 AM
Well, they did decide to deliberately attack the US and join with the Axis powers. That doesn't necessarily justify the subsequent nuking, destruction and occupation of Japan at the end of the war, but it's a bit ridiculous to lump "foreign invasion" (or civil war for that matter) with things like earthquakes and tsunamis.

No it isn't. The effects of the invasion and general war stress, plus the atomic thing, were still very difficult for the country to deal with, regardless of how they came about. It's perfectly valid to list them in the same sentence in that context.

They weren't natural disasters, true, but they were still disasters for the country.

soldant
14-09-2011, 02:57 AM
They weren't natural disasters, true, but they were still disasters for the country.
You could make that argument but most often "disasters" are the result of nature or man-made hazards through negligence. The use of atomic weapons is an act of war and thus should be labelled as such. I never claimed that they weren't difficult to deal with (they were much worse given that the country was in war economy mode at the time) but they're not in the same category as natural disasters or hazards created by negligence. Japan's hierarchy chose to go to war. They didn't choose an earthquake, or a tsunami.

Again I'm not saying that it justifies what the US did nor that it makes it any easier to deal with for the citizens, but acts of war are in a different class from natural disasters. They're deliberate acts motivated by human minds.

Nalano
14-09-2011, 05:10 AM
This discussion is taking a turn for the perverse, and it started by sounding like the ravings of a Chinese kid with an axe to grind.

I mean, you could say that the US was not justified in deliberately targeting population centers (tho the atomic bombs weren't the worst bombing Japan had seen), but then you can say that the civilian deaths Japan received weren't even a tenth of the civilian deaths Japan inflicted.

Not that it matters in this case, at any rate, except to say that Japan has significant experience not only in dealing with earthquakes and tsunamis, but also fallout and wholesale urban destruction. That being said, Russia doesn't seem to give a shit, and Russia knows a thing or two about fallout, so I suppose we're fine until Godzilla rises from the depths.

soldant
14-09-2011, 05:52 AM
Whoa, I was totally trying to avoid a discussion about whether or not the deployment of atomic weapons was necessary or not! I was just commenting on the differences between an act of war and a natural disaster or human-caused accident.


That being said, Russia doesn't seem to give a shit, and Russia knows a thing or two about fallout, so I suppose we're fine until Godzilla rises from the depths.
There's a Soviet Russia joke in here somewhere...

Grizzly
14-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Come on, Nalano, it's radiation we are talking about, not something we can take lightly.

And since you are living an the East coast, I dont know what's happening to the US West coast, but the whole Pacific has been polluted with radiation by our beloved Japs.

All talk on radiation should be viewed with scepticism. There might be radiation from japan in the pacific, but even if it is well above normal levels, it does not mean that it also well above safe levels (since, say, some Cesium isotopes are almost never found in nature at all, the presence of some cesium isotopes in the athmosspehre means an increase of 300 times normal values. That does not mean that those 300 times normal values are actually dangerous.

Its like saying that a million people died from Chernobyl or something... where the hell did those rumors come from?

QuantaCat
14-09-2011, 10:31 AM
http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Whitmore
14-09-2011, 10:38 AM
*Points at the Sun* See that? Yeah. It could explode, or go out at any second. We do not know enough about it to really understand how it works, how it functions or how much longer it'll exist. We have estimates, but we really don't know enough.

It could go out. Or explode. Or, you know, another Galaxy could crash into ours.. Or the Univerise could implode. A small explosion at a French plant? Eh, minimal in comparision to the Celestial dangers.

Also, Asteroids.

Oh, and a flare from the Sun could theoretically fry all electronics on the planet, if i remember how it works.. Or just cook us.

So, yeah. 2012? Eh, it could happen tommrow.

Oh, and the whole 2012 thing? Why.. did they even have a Calender that went that far? I just assume they thought "You know what? We don't really need one that goes that far.. We'll stop now and make a new one later."

That, or they trolled us.

Grizzly
14-09-2011, 11:33 AM
The worst scenario would be Tokyo becoming uninhabitable.Unless you somehow manage to detonate a chernobyl-style reactor inside Tokyo, that simply won't happen.

The important bit from that guardian article


Chernobyl offers a closer comparison. The accident in the former Soviet Union left 134 cleanup workers with acute radiation sickness. Twenty-eight died within a year. Millions more were exposed to lower doses and a wide area of Belarus and northern Europe was contaminated. In a follow-up study 20 years later, the WHO concluded the accident caused an additional 4,000 cancer deaths – about 4% higher than the normal rate – among the 626,000 most highly exposed people. For those exposed to lower levels of radiation, it estimated that cancer fatalities would rise by about 0.6%. The organisation also noted Russian studies showing increased risk of heart disease and cataracts, but it found no evidence of an impact on fertility, miscarriages or birth defects.
Given that Fukushima has released a tenth of the radiation of Chernobyl and taken greater steps to prevent contamination through milk, this would suggest Japan must brace for hundreds – rather than thousands – of extra cancer cases and births may not be as much of a problem as many believe.
Which is the major problem: Many believe that it is a much bigger then it actually is. When west-coast americans started swallowing jodium tablets, they put themselves at a much higher risk for health problems (due to jodium poisining due to the overdoses of Jodium) then they would when they didn't.

The risks accosiated with nuclear meltdowns for the general populace not in the exclusion zones is much, much less worse then say, the presence of a coal plant.

squirrel
14-09-2011, 01:14 PM
This discussion is taking a turn for the perverse, and it started by sounding like the ravings of a Chinese kid with an axe to grind.

We took the first hit (or Koreans would think we took just second hit, and both we and South Koreans were in a shopping rush for salt almost immediately after the incident, mistakenly thought Iodine could fight radiation. I personally is more concerned of pollution of sea salt supply). Of course we have the right to be angry. You consider us (or me actually since I represent only myself only) to be overreacting, but I consider us to have the right to blame those who increase our health risk. And some of other suggest that China, being a state of source of pollution, has no right to blame the others. To me it's more ironical for the fact China is a world factory. Most of our exporting industries are exporting to you westerners / Japanese. Manufacturing industries would of course generate pollution, just like what Europeans, Americans and Japanese did in 19th / 20th centuries. Furthermore, most of our exporting are actually controlled by westerners and Japanese. Of course you dont directly own our industries, you outsource your most polluting processes of production to us, and let us pollute our own land, and neighboring lands, and then we take the blame. How convenient is that?

Talking about response of Russia. It's kinda funny. Weeks after 3/11 a Russian Tu95 bomber violated Japanese airspace, obviously to test Japanese military's response time after the disastor. And horribly it took hours for Japanese military to send two F15 to intercept the bomber - after the bomber had circled around the whole Japan once. Seems some other thing than radiation caught the polar bear's attention.

And guess if someone warn you about the danger of GM food you would also call that someone an alarmist, huh?

P.S. I suggest that the risk of visiting west of Osaka being minimum (not saying it's safe), is for the fact it's water supplied has not been report to be contaminated. Right one day in Tokyo is like taking an X-ray scan, and obviously you won't normally take X-ray scan everyday, right? I dont know about your hospitals, but in hospitals over here, corridor outside X-ray scanning room would be cleared while in operation. And of course, doctors here still promised us that health risk of X-ray is "at minimum".

Wolfenswan
14-09-2011, 01:22 PM
And some of other suggest that China, being a state of source of pollution, has no right to blame the others.straw-man, much? no one here even mentioned pollution besides you.


Weeks after 3/11 a Russian Tu95 bomber violated Japanese airspace, obviously to test Japanese military's response time after the disastor.

Russia has been conducting arial patrols in the region for ages now and have always been criticized for it.


Chief of the Russian General Staff Nikolay Makarov said September 12 that despite complaints from a number of countries, Russia is not going to stop patrols of its strategic bombers.
“The Americans fly where and when they want, so we will also continue our strategic aviation flights, despite notes from some countries,” RIA Novosti cited Makarov.
On September 9, two Russian TU-95 bombers flew over Japanese territory, raising the ire of Japanese authorities.




http://pik.tv/en/news/story/18651-russia-wont-give-up-the-strategic-flights

squirrel
14-09-2011, 01:28 PM
straw-man, much? no one here even mentioned pollution besides you.

Nope, I am not saying Nalano said this. That's in Lukasz's post.

Lukasz
14-09-2011, 02:10 PM
We took the first hit (or Koreans would think we took just second hit, and both we and South Koreans were in a shopping rush for salt almost immediately after the incident, mistakenly thought Iodine could fight radiation. I personally is more concerned of pollution of sea salt supply). Of course we have the right to be angry. You consider us (or me actually since I represent only myself only) to be overreacting, but I consider us to have the right to blame those who increase our health risk. And some of other suggest that China, being a state of source of pollution, has no right to blame the others. To me it's more ironical for the fact China is a world factory. Most of our exporting industries are exporting to you westerners / Japanese. Manufacturing industries would of course generate pollution, just like what Europeans, Americans and Japanese did in 19th / 20th centuries. Furthermore, most of our exporting are actually controlled by westerners and Japanese. Of course you dont directly own our industries, you outsource your most polluting processes of production to us, and let us pollute our own land, and neighboring lands, and then we take the blame. How convenient is that?
didnt you say that your country is a communist, your government controls everything? so its your fault. and I am saying that just being outside in Chinese city is waaaay more dangerous than what you might have got from Japan. Furthermore Poland received waaaay more radiation from Chernobyl in 86 and there is no evidence whatsoever of it. Swallowing iodine was more problematic than anything from Cheronobyl.
What I am basically saying:
you got more health risks because of your industry than anything Japan might have contributed. Simply there is no reason to worry about Japanese meltodown as it won't do anything.


Talking about response of Russia. It's kinda funny. Weeks after 3/11 a Russian Tu95 bomber violated Japanese airspace, obviously to test Japanese military's response time after the disastor. And horribly it took hours for Japanese military to send two F15 to intercept the bomber - after the bomber had circled around the whole Japan once. Seems some other thing than radiation caught the polar bear's attention.
What the hell are you talking about?


And guess if someone warn you about the danger of GM food you would also call that someone an alarmist, huh?
Of course I would. Give me some hard science from respectable source not someone's rambling about something he does not know. You better provide some links to at least half of your points from respectful sources


P.S. I suggest that the risk of visiting west of Osaka being minimum (not saying it's safe), is for the fact it's water supplied has not been report to be contaminated. Right one day in Tokyo is like taking an X-ray scan, and obviously you won't normally take X-ray scan everyday, right? I dont know about your hospitals, but in hospitals over here, corridor outside X-ray scanning room would be cleared while in operation. And of course, doctors here still promised us that health risk of X-ray is "at minimum".
One day in tokyo is like taking an xray scan. Source. You need to give us a source of that info. Otherwise you are just making that up.
and like I said:
visiting Osaka's towns, villages is safer than staying back home in bejing, nyc, berlin, london, HK, seul etc.

And I have a question. Do you discourage foreigners from visiting your country?

soldant
14-09-2011, 02:40 PM
How convenient is that?
I really have no idea what this argument has to do with anything. Your country wanted to expand its economy and created opportunities, which people took up. It's like here in Australia how we mine anything we can find, which China invariably buys. Plenty of people here whinge that it's contributing to global warming, but it's still just business that helps keep the country's economy in such a strong position.


Weeks after 3/11 a Russian Tu95 bomber violated Japanese airspace, obviously to test Japanese military's response time after the disastor. [...] Seems some other thing than radiation caught the polar bear's attention.
Like Wolfenswan said this isn't new or interesting information. Who knows what Russia's up to? I doubt it has anything to do with imperialism or warmongering though. Lots of people here try to accuse China of similar designs, to the point of some people suggesting that China would love to invade Australia for the mineral wealth. That stands as long as it takes someone to point out that it's simply cheaper and easier to buy it and stay at home. I think a similar sort of argument stands for Russia's violation of airspace. There's no purpose to going to war.


And guess if someone warn you about the danger of GM food you would also call that someone an alarmist, huh?
Yes, because most of the warnings are from people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Until hard science proves there's a danger, the warnings aren't worth the paper they're written on, just like other misinformed opinions like the "widespread dangers of vaccination" or radiation. That's the sad part of the Internet. We've got so much useful information at our fingertips... and yet 20x more pointless, misinformed rhetoric.


P.S. I suggest that the risk of visiting west of Osaka being minimum (not saying it's safe), is for the fact it's water supplied has not been report to be contaminated. Right one day in Tokyo is like taking an X-ray scan, and obviously you won't normally take X-ray scan everyday, right? I dont know about your hospitals, but in hospitals over here, corridor outside X-ray scanning room would be cleared while in operation. And of course, doctors here still promised us that health risk of X-ray is "at minimum".
If they're clearing the corridor outside a radiography room... then your hospital is terrible and in need of an upgrade. Normally they're shielded to mitigate against risk of continual exposure to radiation, as is likely to be sustained by staff. Or alternatively in emergency departments we wear lead aprons with thyroid protectors, since we can't very well just walk away from a trauma patient simply for an x-ray.

X-rays are safe. Radiation isn't some mystical force that causes insta-death with a tiny bit of exposure. In an x-ray you're exposed to a very safe dose for a minimal period of time. It's infinitely safer than the alternative, which was taking a random guess or opening the patient up to see what was inside.

Rii
14-09-2011, 03:43 PM
Talking about response of Russia. It's kinda funny. Weeks after 3/11 a Russian Tu95 bomber violated Japanese airspace, obviously to test Japanese military's response time after the disastor. And horribly it took hours for Japanese military to send two F15 to intercept the bomber - after the bomber had circled around the whole Japan once. Seems some other thing than radiation caught the polar bear's attention.

I suspect that measuring airborne radioactive particulates is precisely what they were after. Do you have any evidence to suggest that the Tu-95 did in fact violate Japanese airspace? That would be very unusual.

Donjo
14-09-2011, 05:20 PM
*Points at the Sun* See that? Yeah. It could explode, or go out at any second. We do not know enough about it to really understand how it works, how it functions or how much longer it'll exist. We have estimates, but we really don't know enough.

It could go out. Or explode. Or, you know, another Galaxy could crash into ours.. Or the Univerise could implode. A small explosion at a French plant? Eh, minimal in comparision to the Celestial dangers.

Also, Asteroids.

Oh, and a flare from the Sun could theoretically fry all electronics on the planet, if i remember how it works.. Or just cook us.

So, yeah. 2012? Eh, it could happen tommrow.

Oh, and the whole 2012 thing? Why.. did they even have a Calender that went that far? I just assume they thought "You know what? We don't really need one that goes that far.. We'll stop now and make a new one later."

That, or they trolled us.

Being totally fatalistic about the dangers of the universe doesn't mean we should have a blase attitude to all the things that can kill us on earth though.... the universe could disappear tomorrow, fuck it! Imma eat a lump of this Polonium!

sinister agent
14-09-2011, 07:02 PM
Make sure you cook it thoroughly.

Nalano
14-09-2011, 07:09 PM
Being totally fatalistic about the dangers of the universe doesn't mean we should have a blase attitude to all the things that can kill us on earth though.... the universe could disappear tomorrow, fuck it! Imma eat a lump of this Polonium!

Maybe because it's extremely unlikely that I'm going to be killed by an irradiated piece of sushi or a terrorist attack or a steam pipe bursting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RET1fcpHS6U) under Sixth Avenue, and so taking excessive action to protect myself from these outlier contingencies is a waste of my time and a tax on my mental fortitude.

Saying "I don't think the Fukushima disaster is going to have much of an effect on me" is not the same as "I'm going to eat this rancid meat and damn the consequences."

WitchfinderG
14-09-2011, 09:44 PM
One day in tokyo is like taking an xray scan. Source. You need to give us a source of that info.

Heh if he manages to give you any source it sure as hell wont be credible. Its bullshit x10.

Lukasz
14-09-2011, 10:50 PM
a steam pipe bursting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RET1fcpHS6U) under Sixth Avenue,

holy crap. that's pretty hardcore.

Nalano
14-09-2011, 11:11 PM
holy crap. that's pretty hardcore.

So, seriously, why worry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk6xb07cPSk#t=03m55s)?

QuantaCat
15-09-2011, 09:38 AM
Should I bring up the radiation chart again?

Donjo
15-09-2011, 06:35 PM
Maybe because it's extremely unlikely that I'm going to be killed by an irradiated piece of sushi or a terrorist attack or a steam pipe bursting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RET1fcpHS6U) under Sixth Avenue, and so taking excessive action to protect myself from these outlier contingencies is a waste of my time and a tax on my mental fortitude.

Saying "I don't think the Fukushima disaster is going to have much of an effect on me" is not the same as "I'm going to eat this rancid meat and damn the consequences."

I was replying hyperbole with hyperbole... it makes sense to try to prevent nuclear disasters and minimise the negative effects of fallout and irradiation but not to worry too much about another galaxy crashing into ours... is what I was getting at :) It seems like the OP is coming at the thing from a weird angle but it's probably fair to say that the scale of the Fukushima disaster is probably a lot worse than governments and authorities are letting on.

Lukasz
15-09-2011, 06:59 PM
but it's probably fair to say that the scale of the Fukushima disaster is probably a lot worse than governments and authorities are letting on.

it probably is not fair.

simple reason. There are thousands of people from all parts of the world in that area. Sure, they might have been able to lie in the beginning but not now. Too many people outside direct control of government to hide any true discrepancy between official reports and reality of the situation. Different interpretations of the data do happen of course and governments always tend to favour more convenient interpratation but saying that situation is 'a lot worse' is definitely unfair.

Japan is not soviet union, you know... which did fail to hide true scale of the catastrophe in Chernobyl anyway.

Donjo
16-09-2011, 01:41 AM
By "fair" I mean "in my ill informed opinion".