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View Full Version : Sony removes right to join Class Action Lawsuits



Norskov
17-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Link to article (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/09/mandatory-ps3-update-removes-right-to-join-in-a-class-action-lawsuit.ars)

Is this a new low? Is it even legal? They really seem to be screwing the consumers in a way I've not seen before, removing their right to join a class action lawsuit, unless they apply for the right in less than 30 days after receiving the new update.

Rii
17-09-2011, 01:01 PM
Is this a new low?

For Sony re: Playstation? Nah. Removing the capability to run Linux from already purchased systems would be the nadir there.

Mind you'd I'd like to hear some informed opinion on how likely this new provision is to stand up in various jurisdictions...

Drake Sigar
17-09-2011, 01:27 PM
Pretty sure that’s not binding. There are laws in many counties which protect consumer rights.

TillEulenspiegel
17-09-2011, 01:40 PM
An arbitration clause in a EULA? The fuck?

As far as I know, the only bits of a EULA that have ever stood up in court have been copyright related. Licensing, resale, that sort of thing. The notion of waiving basic rights in one is quite absurd.

Lukasz
17-09-2011, 01:49 PM
legal in usa since april:
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/88457.html

Nalano
17-09-2011, 07:06 PM
legal in usa since april:
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/88457.html

I, for one, don't like this neo-feudalism.

TillEulenspiegel
17-09-2011, 07:29 PM
I blame the Supreme Court for most things that are wrong in the world. At least for the past 11 years, starting when Gore would have been elected had they allowed a full statewide recount in Florida.

Rii
17-09-2011, 07:42 PM
I blame the Supreme Court for most things that are wrong in the world.

Where's a WTF emoticon when you need one...

TillEulenspiegel
17-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Hyperbole amuses me. Surely you should never take anything from an RPS commenter at face value.

But seriously, you look at the recent history of the US, and it all hinges on that 5-4 decision in Bush v. Gore. And they've made a fair few shitty decisions since then, propped up by Bush appointees.

I miss Bill Clinton. Good economy. Fewer wars. Better music.

Rii
17-09-2011, 08:47 PM
But seriously, you look at the recent history of the US, and it all hinges on that 5-4 decision in Bush v. Gore. And they've made a fair few shitty decisions since then, propped up by Bush appointees.

I think you're overestimating the Bush factor. I don't think the decade would've unfolded particularly differently under the Democrats. Smoother peaks and troughs perhaps, but the same general trends that are the manifestation of issues more deeply-seated than any one government. In the absence of resolution of those issues it could well be good that things come to a head sooner - whilst the United States is still reasonably secure in its hegemony - than later, when it isn't.

Lukasz
17-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Afghan war was unavoidable. Iraq? Bush was manipulated into it by his people. With Gore it might have happened too of course but not necessarily.

If not the iraq war the world would look quite different today. Whether worse or better is unfortunately unanswerable question.

Nalano
17-09-2011, 09:23 PM
I think you're overestimating the Bush factor. I don't think the decade would've unfolded particularly differently under the Democrats.

Two foreign wars, a decade's stagnation capped with a mini-depression, record stratification of economic classes, "corporations are people," wholesale dismantling of necessary government programs, astroturf initiatives by doctrinaire libertarians...

...I dare say it damn well would have. Most of this shit is the result of the Reagan Revolution in practice, and that places it squarely at the doorstep of the zealots of the former political party known as the GOP.

Kadayi
18-09-2011, 12:09 AM
Have they found those WMDs yet btw?

If you've not seen it before I do recommend Adam Curtis BBC documentary 'The Power of Nightmares' (6 parts)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOlwbaPe2os

It's a few years old, but parallels the rise of the Islamic fundamentalists and the Neo-Conservatives. It's pretty interesting, especially the level of delusion that drove each group.

Xercies
18-09-2011, 12:22 AM
I like how this started from talking about sony taking away our rights to file lawsuits against them to criticizing american governments and the wars they did. How does that work?

TillEulenspiegel
18-09-2011, 12:46 AM
How does that work?
The fact that this clause is (possibly) legal is a direct result of the political situation in the US, as Lukasz pointed out. Sony can't get away with screwing you unless the government lets them.

I really, really doubt it would hold up in most of Europe, where consumer protection is taken a bit more seriously.

Nalano
18-09-2011, 01:13 AM
The fact that this clause is (possibly) legal is a direct result of the political situation in the US, as Lukasz pointed out. Sony can't get away with screwing you unless the government lets them.

This. We're fucked, and it's mostly self-inflicted.

soldant
18-09-2011, 01:51 AM
I foresee a wave of attempts to export this law...

wcaypahwat
18-09-2011, 03:27 AM
"if the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance."


Looks like they know it won't hold up in a lot of places.

Nalano
18-09-2011, 03:42 AM
"if the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance."


Looks like they know it won't hold up in a lot of places.

And yet they feel compelled to try. Apparently they feel it's not at all unethical to lie and cheat your way to the top.

So why, dare I ask, do us self-respecting gamers feel the need to take the high road?

Xercies
18-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Well its a moral thing, if you take the low road like these people are, are you any better then them really? You might say your doing it for the good of the people, but many horrible things have happened because people thought they were doing it for the good of the people. Just take the example of George Bush, I'm sure he thought he was doing it for the good of the people, which actually it was economically good for the people but only for a certain amount of time.

So yeah always try to go for the high road, it might not work as well as the big companies shady dealings but you know at least we don't get our name tarnished in the mud.

BobsLawnService
18-09-2011, 02:51 PM
Erm, if you don't like the terms and conditions for owning a pieve of hardware you shouldn't buy it?

But a silly question - Can't you take them on in court as an individual and potentially stand the chance to get a bigger settlement? Wouldn't 50 000 individual lawsuits drain the Sony Coffers more than one class action law suit in legal fees?

Nalano
18-09-2011, 04:05 PM
So yeah always try to go for the high road, it might not work as well as the big companies shady dealings but you know at least we don't get our name tarnished in the mud.

I've been watching the Democrats take the high road and push bipartisanship and compromise for two years now. Their name is getting tarnished all the same because their party is being dragged in the mud after being beaten to a pulp.


But a silly question - Can't you take them on in court as an individual and potentially stand the chance to get a bigger settlement? Wouldn't 50 000 individual lawsuits drain the Sony Coffers more than one class action law suit in legal fees?

Find me 50,000 people who can afford lawyers for lawsuits like this.

QuantaCat
18-09-2011, 05:42 PM
In europe? no problem. Cheap lawsuit protection insurance is the reason, atleast here in austria. You pay them 5 or 10 bucks monthly, and they will provide every support in case of getting sued or sueing. Just as well that the consumersprotectiony thingies will kick into action to jump on the bandwagon, and support you as well.

Im not concerned at all, really. Nor do I use most sony products.

PS: my brain is fried at the moment, so I couldnt remember certain details such as "how things are really named". sorry about that.