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redox
20-09-2011, 01:11 AM
The Jimquisition: Online Passes Are Bad For Everybody - http://www.destructoid.com/the-jimquisition-online-passes-are-bad-for-everybody-211802.phtml


As always, he has a point. Unless you can afford to buy every single game on every format, new. Who can right?

pakoito
20-09-2011, 01:21 AM
That guy...

Nalano
20-09-2011, 02:04 AM
I had a conversation with my father not too long ago, the crux of which was that while, yes, I and every modern first-worlder eat a better and more varied diet than classical kings, as well as live in climate-controlled comfort, I realized that I'm spending almost every one of my waking hours ekeing out the ability to fulfill the basic functions of eating regularly and sleeping indoors. Back in college I could hang out with my friends daily. Now I'm doing good if I see them biweekly, and that requires planning.

In short, I have every luxury in the world except free time. John Cheese of Cracked.com has a point (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-to-tell-youre-getting-too-old-video-games/): Now that I'm in that stage of my life which is basically endless toil until I retire, I'm replacing free time with money, and my money demands fun NOW. This DRM feels like insult to injury because it adds toil to an act of entertainment, made doubly insulting when the game has a grind, too.

As such, yes, wasting my time is slowly killing me.

Okami
20-09-2011, 01:33 PM
Thou shouldst not link to destructoid!

Kadayi
20-09-2011, 01:43 PM
Why not just start a Jim Sterling Jimquistion thread and just add to it every week instead? That way those of us who don't give two hoots about Sterling can safely ignore them?

Rii
20-09-2011, 01:53 PM
Ugh, I can't stand that guy. But he's right, and I'm glad that someone with a high profile is flying this particular flag. And of course it's PC gamers who are the most pliant of all in the matter of used games.

Incidentally, the bit about stealing seconds of a gamer's life being akin to murder reminded me of this bit from Dune Messiah:


The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: "I feed on your energy."

Nalano
20-09-2011, 01:54 PM
Why not just start a Jim Sterling Jimquistion thread and just add to it every week instead? That way those of us who don't give two hoots about Sterling can safely ignore them?

How about we just dump everything Kadayi doesn't like into one thread? That way, he doesn't have to click any more links than are absolutely necessary!

Lukasz
20-09-2011, 03:31 PM
I realized that I'm spending almost every one of my waking hours ekeing out the ability to fulfill the basic functions of eating regularly and sleeping indoors. Back in college I could hang out with my friends daily. Now I'm doing good if I see them biweekly, and that requires planning.

you know... that was always the case for 99% of worlds population.

QuantaCat
20-09-2011, 03:32 PM
well.. I dislike making new threads for every episode of something, so I actually second kads motion.

Though I dont see the point in posting everytime something gets updated, at all. the people that follow it, follow it anyway, and unless you hate every single post (incidentally every single new post) that comes out of a specific thing, I fail to see the point in posting every time someone else posts, just for the sake of having "re:"d it. retweeting, yes. On a forum, not so much.

Nalano
20-09-2011, 03:36 PM
you know... that was always the case for 99% of worlds population.

Yes, of course. And the reason for that is usually to enrich the last 1%. That's the humor of the situation: General wealth is less important than social iniquity.

Auspex
20-09-2011, 04:08 PM
I don't really like Jim Sterling either but... I thought he'd have a much better voice that that.

I am disappointed and a shallow human being.

Kadayi
20-09-2011, 04:39 PM
How about we just dump everything Kadayi doesn't like into one thread? That way, he doesn't have to click any more links than are absolutely necessary!

Weirdly enough I belong to other sites and the general approach is if it's a series (like Yatzee or some such), rather than posting a separate thread every time, you make a single containing thread (just like we do for 'what you've been watching, reading, listening to etc, etc).

Xercies
20-09-2011, 05:02 PM
The problem is is that Jim Sterling has various different opinions from week to week so one big thread would be a bit of a mess.

TillEulenspiegel
20-09-2011, 05:06 PM
I say make all the threads you want, but can you at least put a "Jim Sterling" warning?

Because I'd rather not waste my time talking about such a despicable human being (http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298).

deano2099
20-09-2011, 05:47 PM
Why not just start a Jim Sterling Jimquistion thread and just add to it every week instead? That way those of us who don't give two hoots about Sterling can safely ignore them?

Because the thread isn't about Jim Sterling? I'd have probably preferred a bit more context in the original quote so it wasn't necessary to watch the video to have the debate, but I don't think it really matters who raises the talking point? The only reason we're discussing Jim Sterling now is that a bunch of people felt it necessary to chime in on how much they dislike the guy.

Let's face it, complete twats often come up with the most interesting talking points. (Not say Sterling is one, just I really don't care if he is or not).

Nalano
20-09-2011, 05:51 PM
Because I'd rather not waste my time talking about such a despicable human being (http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298).

So that's the whole schtick where Jim gets the "despicable human being" reputation. If you ask me, it really just looks like both sides got into an internet shitfit until one hit the other with the 'gotcha' stick.

Reminds me of a certain white, transgender student at a tiny liberal arts college in Washington state starting a whole war against a Native American professor for including "mother earth" in the course's title because it was oppressive to "minorities." No, it's just somebody looking to pick a fight finding one, and neither Jimquisition or Anna Anthropy look exactly like they believed much in detente.

Rii
20-09-2011, 06:57 PM
So that's the whole schtick where Jim gets the "despicable human being" reputation. If you ask me, it really just looks like both sides got into an internet shitfit until one hit the other with the 'gotcha' stick.

Having read through all that:

(1) My head hurts.
(2) Not a lot to it: a man-child and a woman-child slinging shit at each other.
(3) I think this (http://gomakemeasandwich.blogspot.com/2011/02/in-his-words-why-jim-sterling-is-in.html) link does a better job of demonstrating the awfulness of Jim Sterling. The Fat Princess stuff in particular.

Nalano
20-09-2011, 07:12 PM
(3) I think this (http://gomakemeasandwich.blogspot.com/2011/02/in-his-words-why-jim-sterling-is-in.html) link does a better job of demonstrating the awfulness of Jim Sterling. The Fat Princess stuff in particular.

Maybe the internet has anesthetized me to shocking statements, but those insults all look like familiar flamewar buzzwords to me. Like reading a sociologist try to delve into 4chan lingo.

Kadayi
20-09-2011, 07:17 PM
Because the thread isn't about Jim Sterling?

Dean, this is the second thread that redox has started with zero context and a straight link to Jims Sterlings Jimquisition videos. : -

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1304-quot-I-m-always-playing-DOOM-quot-Point-made

Call me crazy, but I've the vague suspicion that left to his own devices Redox will make another cold call link thread in a week or so when Jim makes another video. So he might as well make a 'Jim Sterling appreciation thread' and pour all of Jim links into that, where those who can tolerate than man can wax lyrical about his amazing insights. That way everyone's happy.

deano2099
20-09-2011, 08:46 PM
See the voices I'd want most in a thread though are those saying he's wrong and saying why he's wrong. Had he just posted a summary of the argument without a link to the video people wouldn't mind. They'd probably think it was a decent thread. But it's not now. Because we're discussing Jim-bloody Sterling. Instead of the topic. Because we can't discuss the topic because people are desperate to point out what a cunt Jim Sterling is.

It's like coming in to a thread about a new World War 2 game just to point out what a nasty man Hitler was and we'd rather not talk about him thanks.

If a topic/post is genuinely worthless, it'll fall off the page soon enough anyway.

NecroKnight
20-09-2011, 09:01 PM
The gaming industry is such an greedy business.

Nalano
20-09-2011, 10:05 PM
greedy business.

Redundant phrase is redundant

redox
21-09-2011, 12:13 AM
Dean, this is the second thread that redox has started with zero context and a straight link to Jims Sterlings Jimquisition videos. : -

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1304-quot-I-m-always-playing-DOOM-quot-Point-made

Call me crazy, but I've the vague suspicion that left to his own devices Redox will make another cold call link thread in a week or so when Jim makes another video. So he might as well make a 'Jim Sterling appreciation thread' and pour all of Jim links into that, where those who can tolerate than man can wax lyrical about his amazing insights. That way everyone's happy.

Man, you complain more than me! :)

Seriously though, if you placed your mouse pointer over the thread for a second or two before clicking/entering, you'd save yourself a lot of stress.

zuddy
21-09-2011, 03:17 AM
I can't believe you'd steal Kadayi's two seconds like that.

You murderer.

deano2099
21-09-2011, 12:30 PM
Having now watched the video I can understand why people dislike Sterling and am fairly sure that's meant to be the point.

Secondly I think the video makes one huge faulty assumption, that online passes will reduce the trade-in value of games. That doesn't seem to have been the case (I mean how fun is multiplayer three months after launch for most titles anyway? It's either people who are far far better than you, or no-one at all). It's also a reaction to high-street shops profiteering so much off second hand titles.

Yes, it means that if your second-hand copy isn't at least $10 cheaper than your new ones, then it's not great value. But if your new games are $60 selling second-hand copies for anything more than $40 seems a bit cheeky to me anyway.

Nalano
21-09-2011, 02:40 PM
It's also a reaction to high-street shops profiteering so much off second hand titles.

[...]

But if your new games are $60 selling second-hand copies for anything more than $40 seems a bit cheeky to me anyway.

Calling a private business greedy for attempting to maximize profit is kinda like calling a lion bloodthirsty for attempting to kill gazelles.

deano2099
21-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Indeed, but if one day the gazelles have had enough and pick up a machine gun and start gunning the lions down and eating them they can hardly complain.

The shops are only maximising short-term profit because long-term they're basically going to kill retail entirely.

Nalano
21-09-2011, 03:59 PM
The shops are only maximising short-term profit because long-term they're basically going to kill retail entirely.

Social Darwinism* in action. Well, at least for the companies that aren't Too Big To Fail...

My biggest concern for the death of retail is in the associated death of real-life social gathering places for like-minded people in the company of those who are knowledgeable about said field. However, that died a long time ago when we got national chains that don't allow shop managers to make individual decisions. I mean, we all lament local record stores, but nobody shed a tear for Tower or Virgin.

Also, gazelles with machine guns sounds like the template for a Gary Larson comic.

*not that I take much stock in social darwinism

Xercies
21-09-2011, 06:08 PM
I don't know sometime my local HMV will have there video consoles connected to a big screen and you have impromptu tounaments with random people you've never met. It can be quite fun :)

jp0249107
02-10-2011, 03:00 PM
Being one of those heartless conservative representatives of evil, I'll throw my two cents in. While it may not work over in the UK because your economy and bureaucracy are different than ours, changing the way games do business all comes down to giving them your business.

Here in the United States, even though children make no income, they are one of the most sought after demographics when it comes to advertising. This is (I'm going off of my wife's textbooks so I'm no expert) because they are literally walking wallets. They ask their parents for something, and since it is a game or toy or whatever that the parents have no interest in the parents do not do any research on whether or not it is a good buy. This could be translated into money grabbing dastardly deeds like the CoD map packs. Little Johnny already has an Xbox Live account and wants to pwn moar noobz, so he gets his inattentive mother to buy him the map packs, even though the most recent one was a blatant ripoff. She does not do any research, she does not look at reviews, and Johnny could care less because he's a child and it isn't his money. Johnny's mother is also the type that blames videogames for everything. The problem with online passes and the atmosphere around AAA titles can be blamed on (mostly) one thing; shitty parents and ignorant people who are too lazy to google something.

Changing the online pass, and even changing the way the used game and new game business works, will (in my opinion) only work if the way the vast majority of people buy games changes. Looking at the cover or believing what you see on the commercial shouldn't make you buy the game; it should make you interested so you look up more about it.
I know that will never happen for the mass of people that go out and buy DLC in droves just because they see the commercial (people are stupid after all). I think that sooner or later the indie gaming scene pricing structure and the ease at which multiplayer gaming is achieved by those indie games and by people who are able to host them on their own will influence AAA titles enough to bring them back down to earth. It may not bring us a gaming utopia but publishers like Ubisoft and Activision will be hurt enough by more reasonable games that they will be forced to bring their pricing structure down in order to keep their share of the market. Some people are starting to wake up and move elsewhere. I stopped at MW1 because of the awful multiplayer and started on BF2, and now I've thrown my support behind DICE because of their updates to BC2 with free maps and good support. But I could be wrong on that assumption because it IS the internet, and the minority tends to be louder than they appear.

Or....hardcore gaming will survive in places like Minecraft, Project Zomboid, Desktop Dungeons and other such things and we'll just have to ignore that sector of the gaming populace.

TL;DR The free-market could stop this crazy.

CuriousOrange
02-10-2011, 05:57 PM
I've never shed a tear for any business ever. If you can't stay in business you don't deserve to be.

Nalano
02-10-2011, 06:48 PM
(people are stupid after all)

[...]

TL;DR The free-market could stop this crazy.

I, for one, am interested in how you plan to reconcile these two statements.

Kadayi
02-10-2011, 07:13 PM
I've never shed a tear for any business ever. If you can't stay in business you don't deserve to be.

So you're all for monopolies? I mean much as I like my Kindle, I'm not entirely down with bookshops (large and small) doing to the wall tbh.

NecroKnight
02-10-2011, 07:44 PM
The free-market has it's flaws & believe me there are a lot of them.

Xercies
02-10-2011, 10:33 PM
This is kind of brought to light when you get those campaigns to save a certain historical shop from going, if its so historical and its so part of the heritage then why weren't you going there and giving them the money? That I have to say means they don't really deserve them. Also you have to work at being a business, if you don't work then i'm afraid yeah you do kind of derserve to go.

Kadayi
02-10-2011, 11:38 PM
if you don't work then i'm afraid yeah you do kind of deserve to go.

Yes, but the problem is the perspective being put across is that those small companies have failed that they are being 'inefficient' , where as the reality is generally bigger companies (like Tesco for instance) basically kill off local businesses by undercutting them at a loss on a product line over an extended period so that they become the only supplier within the area. Here in the UK 1 in every 8 pounds earned gets spent in a Tescos store.

Nalano
02-10-2011, 11:42 PM
Yes, but the problem is the perspective being put across is that those small companies have failed that they are being 'inefficient' , where as the reality is generally bigger companies (like Tesco for instance) basically kill off local businesses by undercutting them at a loss on a product line over an extended period so that they become the only supplier within the area. Here in the UK 1 in every 8 pounds earned gets spent in a Tescos store.

Common practice in cut-throat areas is to sell at a loss for a year or two until you've either killed your competitors or gained the sort of customer base you need to continue. Considered part of the investment cost of starting a business.

"Free market" basically means "everybody cheats at cards."

Xercies
03-10-2011, 04:51 PM
The problem is is thats always the way of business to be honest, an independent shop gets more money and becomes bigger and wants to expand and then expands so much that it dwarfs other shops. At one point Tesco was a small shop. Are you saying that independent shops should not grow?

I find a "Free Market" very interesting and has many facets, it totally isn't as evil as people say but it totally isn't nice either.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
03-10-2011, 07:15 PM
Because I'd rather not waste my time talking about such a despicable human being (http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298).

No, no, no, you can't fool me.

That's not a woman (http://tig.wikia.com/wiki/Anna_Anthropy)

Berzee
03-10-2011, 07:45 PM
I won't listen to the video because it sounds like it would be a terrible experience,
but I imagine him sounding exactly like Lazarus out of DX:HR.
Was anyone else disappointed that you never met Lazarus? If ever someone was asking for a nonlethal takedown...

psyk
03-10-2011, 08:13 PM
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298 = LMAO

The first screen shot shows the girl starting it which kind of undermines the site. You act like a troll you are going to get trolled.

Pusing for a certin reaction and then using that against the person is pretty wrong.

Nalano
03-10-2011, 11:42 PM
No, no, no, you can't fool me.

That's not a woman (http://tig.wikia.com/wiki/Anna_Anthropy)

HAhahahaha!

That's rich.

BobsLawnService
04-10-2011, 10:47 AM
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298 = LMAO

The first screen shot shows the girl starting it which kind of undermines the site. You act like a troll you are going to get trolled.

Pusing for a certin reaction and then using that against the person is pretty wrong.

"Anna Anthropy is a white, transdyke game designer"

Can someone please explain what the hell the bit in bold actually means? Is Anna actually a dude pretending to be a woman so that he can call himself a lesbian? Pardon my ignorance here. From where I'm sitting s/he just comes across as a gender troll.

Nalano
04-10-2011, 12:41 PM
"Anna Anthropy is a white, transdyke game designer"

Can someone please explain what the hell the bit in bold actually means? Is Anna actually a dude pretending to be a woman so that he can call himself a lesbian? Pardon my ignorance here. From where I'm sitting s/he just comes across as a gender troll.

S/he is a gender troll. In fact, paint him green and he's pretty much your bog-standard bog troll.

R-F
06-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Has Jim Sterling ever had sex?

EDIT: Just wondering. I mean, I'm a pretty big guy myself but I can get my groove on. But when you get to that sort of size, HOW do you do it? How, seriously?


"Anna Anthropy is a white, transdyke game designer"

Can someone please explain what the hell the bit in bold actually means? Is Anna actually a dude pretending to be a woman so that he can call himself a lesbian? Pardon my ignorance here. From where I'm sitting s/he just comes across as a gender troll.

Transgender and likes women, I guess?