Looking for some Strategy

[Silent Tristero]

I've just read the excellent mini-series of articles on Sengoku (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/05/sengoku-diary/), and it's put me in the mood for something similar.

The thing is, I've barely played anything in the genre, RTS or otherwise. What appeals to me is the sheer depth and varied outcomes, as well as the decision-making, and I'm really looking for a change of pace after the year's biggest Action/RPG's and such.

Turn-based strikes me as more relaxed, I'm not looking for anything like Starcraft or C&C. Other things that would help include -

- Being somewhat cheap; I'm all but drained on being able to spend more than £10-15 on games for the rest of the year (Thanks to a number of pre-orders).

- Potentially able to run on my 'netbook', which is actually a pretty decent netbook/laptop hybrid, the Asus 1215N. Dual core Atom N525, Ion2 GPU, 2gb DDR3 RAM.

- Intuitive to a new user - I'm not an idiot with no patience, but my vast lack of experience with the genre suggests I'm more likely to become bored and alienated by something obtuse and overly complex.

Games that come to mind, and that may or may not be suitable -

- Europa Universalis III
- King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame
- King's Bounty
- Civ 3 + 4
- A Game of Thrones: Genesis (If it was better than it supposedly is)

Any recommendations?

[grasskit]

jagged alliance 2
that is all.

[riadsala]

Civ4 is an easy one. A great game with a great catologue of mods that make it even greater. It's on sale quite often and you can easily pick up the complete pack for around £5.

I like King Arthur, but it's a bit fiddly. M2:TotalWar (or Rome:TotalWar) is more solid and so probably a better suggestions.

Or, go have a look on gog.com. There are loads of great old strategy games. I loveds Commandos back in the day. It's pretty hard, and maybe more of a puzzle games in some ways. Alpha Centuri is a true great.

[fiddlesticks]

I have no actual experience with them, but the Heroes of Might and Magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic) series is supposedly very good. Number three seems to be considered the best one and can be purchased with both expansions on GOG (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/heroes_of_might_and_magic_3_complete_edition) for 9.99$.

[Jorum]

I'm gonna put a good word in for Age of Wonder series.

[acidtestportfolio]

frozen synapse is fun and it has an excellent soundtrack too

[Oak]

Start with Civ 4.

[Giaddon]

Originally I wrote a big list but realized that that wouldn't be helpful to someone who is just trying to get into the genre and has no idea what these games are. So here are three suggestions. You can't go wrong with any of these games:

ALPHA CENTAURI ($6 from GOG) (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/sid_meiers_alpha_centauri)
I consider this the best in the civilization franchise, and perhaps the best strategy game ever designed. An in-depth, intelligent speculation of what the competitive human colonization of another planet might be like. The game has deep strategy (including terraforming, unit design, and alien ecology management) but is straightforward to learn and has a solid interface. Highlights include the well-developed personalities of the different factions and the incredible flavor text that accompanies the technology research.

RISE OF NATIONS: GOLD ($11 from Amazon) (http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Nations-Gold-Pc/dp/B0002UEDPG/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1317919177&sr=1-1)
This is real-time, but the speed is completely controllable and orders can be issued while paused. It's a mash-up of Age of Empires and Civilization: a match encompass the breadth of human history but can be completed in less than an hour. The Thrones and Patriots add-on has very solid single-player campaigns, and the skirmish is always interesting. Beautiful graphics, incredibly good interface, and tons of strategy.

MEDIEVAL 2: TOTAL WAR: GOLD ($10 from Steam) (http://store.steampowered.com/sub/460/?snr=1_4_4__13)
A straightforward campaign map melds with a fantastic real-time tactical battle map (with speed controls and the ability to issue orders while paused) to create a very engaging game. I was properly addicted to this when it came out: managing my generals and governors, expanding my kingdom, building up my cities -- it's all very simple, but it comes together to great effect.

And a word of warning -- the Paradox games (Europa Universalis 3, etc.) are very interesting, but if this is true:


I'm not an idiot with no patience, but my vast lack of experience with the genre suggests I'm more likely to become bored and alienated by something obtuse and overly complex.

I'd stay away from them until you're more comfortable with the genre.

[Oak]

Wait, no, maybe listen to Giaddon.

[Vexing Vision]

If Sengoku sounds up your alley, go for Europa Universalis 3, but it's a complex one to start with. Full of wonder and exploration though.

Not enough people have played Titans of Steel (http://www.titansofsteel.de/), which is freeware since around 2004 or so. If you like some serious mech-battles, that's one of the top contenders for micro-turnbased action.

Civ 4 is an entirely different but gorgeous beast, if Empire and city building and pushing stacks of armies around.

King's Bounty is very light-hearted but has brilliant and very accessible mechanics - but it's quite tricky which may require some experience with Heroes of Might&Magic. Speaking of which, go for Heroes of Might&Magic IV which is fun and accessible and difficulty scales very nicely. It'll also run on your netbook and has horrible, horrible textures. Sorry for that.

[pakoito]

Heroes of Might and Magic is the getaway dru...game to turn based strategy.

For real time, Age of Empires 2.

[Duckee]

Depends if you are looking for modern games or more classics too I suppose.

I would recommend for a modern game: Company of Heroes and if that is to your liking check out the Men of War series.

If you want an older game then check out any game made by Bullfrog, such as Dungeon Keeper, Populous the Beginning, Theme Hospital. Microprose games are also nice, such as Roller Coaster Tycoon 1-2 and the community remake of Transport Tycoon Deluxe called OpenTTD.

Also as some people suggested try some Total War games such as Medieval 1-2. Furthermore, heed the warning of staying clear of Paradox titles, they tend to be overwhelming.

[Nullkigan]

I am partial to Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI if you can find it. The English PC version is not the definitive iteration, but it's still a fun turnbased game. Its very straight forward and relaxed, but also quite atmospheric thanks to the art style. It's also based on the same history/stories as the Dynasty Warriors games, and after a few hours you'll be recognising important characters.

The Elven Legacy games are based on Fantasy General, and are meant to be pretty tough. I played the first remake (before the series was renamed Elven Legacy) and quite enjoyed it. However, there's an overlying plot so you don't get to set your own goals and come out with a completely different experience from the next person.

If you haven't already played them, Civ 4/Jagged Alliance 2/UFO: Enemy Unknown (né X-com) are all excellent turn based games, though the last two are not grand strategy. They're also perfect for a portable machine.

EU III (Chronicles, with MiscMods) is also great but as with all Paradox titles it can be difficult to get into at first.



Not enough people have played Titans of Steel (http://www.titansofsteel.de/), which is freeware since around 2004 or so. If you like some serious mech-battles, that's one of the top contenders for micro-turnbased action.


Titans of Steel isn't so much a game as an exercise in interface frustration. It was also based on Battletech. Megamek does the same basic game better, with fewer interface frustrations, but doesn't have any campaign or easy customisation options. Both ToS and Megamek require extensive background reading to understand at all, so I would not recommend them in this instance.

[Giaddon]

Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI is available on Gamersgate (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-ROTTKXI/romance-of-the-three-kingdoms-xi) for $20.

[Vexing Vision]

The Elven Legacy games are based on Fantasy General, and are meant to be pretty tough. I played the first remake (before the series was renamed Elven Legacy) and quite enjoyed it. However, there's an overlying plot so you don't get to set your own goals and come out with a completely different experience from the next person.

Really? I didn't know that! Cheers for ruining my next weeks of sleep as I grab the series. ;)



Titans of Steel isn't so much a game as an exercise in interface frustration. It was also based on Battletech. Megamek does the same basic game better

This seems to be a matter of personal taste then. I for one find the user interface extremely easy and natural to get into. With the sole exception of applying armor to mechs, which was a pain.

[icupnimpn2]

Battle for Wesnoth (http://wesnoth.org/)

Free game, available for several OS. Many user modules for SP or MP with additional units. Wesnoth is a lot of fun. Not the most head-scratching game out there in SP, but there are campaigns of varying length and difficulty. Heavily inspired by Master of Monsters.

Really no excuse for nabbing it and playing the living junk out of it.

[Username]

The Sengoku diary appeared just as EU3 went on sale in Steam - I took it as a sign. EU3's gonna take a while to learn though.

I've only beaten the original Elven Legacy, no expansions, but from what I've seen it's reminiscent of a game like Fire Emblem mixed with Battle for Wesnoth. Very fun, also very challenging. I would vastly recommend Elven Legacy to Battle for Wesnoth, because the latter game's RNG-based combat will send one to the nuthouse.

King Arthur: TRPWG is fun, feels like a more RPG-focused Total War game.

King's Bounty is also fun, it's basically a more interesting take on the Heroes of Might & Magic series.

Purchasing Civ4 + expansions is the best choice, I think. There is a plethora of fun mods at CivFanatics (http://www.civfanatics.com/), at least one ought to scratch your strategy itch. Civ3 also has some great mods, IIRC. I liked what I played of the Warhammer Fantasy one.

[Althea]

The Elven Legacy games are based on Fantasy General, and are meant to be pretty tough. I played the first remake (before the series was renamed Elven Legacy) and quite enjoyed it. However, there's an overlying plot so you don't get to set your own goals and come out with a completely different experience from the next person.
I'm going to be pedantic. Elven Legacy is the sequel to Fantasy Wars, which may very well be based on Fantasy General.

[Heliocentric]

Sword of the stars is lovely but the startup investment is massive, Frozen Synapse's bar to entry is not too and its currently humble bundle too.

Settlers 2 10th anniversary is peaceful elegant and easy to start,problem is its not available digitally.

[Nullkigan]

I'm going to be pedantic. Elven Legacy is the sequel to Fantasy Wars, which may very well be based on Fantasy General.

I don't see the error in my assertation?

Elven Legacy is a sequel to Fantasy Wars, which was indeed based on Fantasy General. Elven Legacy is now also the effective name of the series which includes Elven Legacy and the 'expansions' EL:Ranger, EL:Siege and EL:Magic.

[Daiv]

I got King's Bounty recently, and it is a startlingly pleasing turn based fantasy tactics romp.

[Land Squid]

Shogun 2 total war is an excellent place to start. It is easy to get into but has lots of depth. It also looks gorgeous. The real time battles are really easy to manage so don't worry about that. If it doesn't run on your laptop then I'd go for Rome or Medieval 2 total war depending on which setting you prefer.

Civilisation 4 is a good place to start as well, but I personally can't stand 4X games.

Europa Universalis is very deep and very satisfying but it is awful at teaching you how to play. If you want something that is easy to get into start with a different game, but it is very rewarding if you don't mind a learnng curve.

[Silent Tristero]

Thanks for the immeasurably helpful and numerous replies, guys. From the advice on offer here, and having scoured my bookshelves, I've uncovered a copy of Medieval: Total War 2. I checked the demo from Steam and it runs maxed out on the laptop, so that's getting installed as I type. I'm also certain I own Alpha Centauri somewhere, so I'll probably install that whilst I have the external disc drive out - if not, can't argue with $6.

Also keen to take a look at Battle for Wesnoth; it's even available on Android... Looks like a lot of fun.

Then, following that, I own both King Arthur and King's Bounty through various Steam/Gog sales; although a quick test with Arthur earlier suggests it's not too smooth on the laptop for some reason.

Cheers again for the advice, guys. I'll try and report back with how I get on/fail on several, fundamental tactical levels.

[TailSwallower]

I would recommend for a modern game: Company of Heroes and if that is to your liking check out the Men of War series.

I grabbed CoH at the recent Steam sale and love it - but, as someone who has played RTSes on and off since Dune 2 I still find it can be a bit relentless at times.

Anyway, I've also been thinking about getting into some of these slower, more thoughtful strategy games, so I'll be tucking this information away for later (perhaps when there's a Steam sale and my backlog has been cleared out somewhat).

[icupnimpn2]

Then, following that, I own both King Arthur and King's Bounty through various Steam/Gog sales; although a quick test with Arthur earlier suggests it's not too smooth on the laptop for some reason.

Don't feel bad. Arthur doesn't go above 20 FPS at any resolution on my desktop PC because it's a poorly-optimized kludge. If it works on your machine, great. If it doesn't, join the club.

[Peter Radiator Full Pig]

Just to add in, though all my recommendations are already suggested.

I think Civ IV is where you should start. Though Alpha Centauri is a better game to many, its harder to get into. What makes it harder is it having less of a basis to our world.
In Civ a spearman does extra damage to horsemen, as one might expect. Farms give food, irrigation improves farms. Tanks are good units, bombers bomb, etc. In many sci fi games, its hard to know whats what. Okay, what does terraforming do? Nanotechnology? Lasers are better bad against reflective armour, but mass drivers arent.....
Civ gives you a nice jump off point. If you find yourself liking the fighting road to victory, get Civ V and mod it. Its wars are much more fun.
I cant remember what its called, but there is a fantasy mod for it, that has its own mods. A modmod isnt common, as far as I know.

X-Com UFO Defence is a game you could start, as long as you dont mind throwing yourself into a game and losing. Alot. And getting scared. Then again, if you were going to throw yourself into a game, maybe Alpha Centauri would be better.

Of the Total War games, Id recommend either of the Medevials. I hated Rome, having to be the Romans sucked real bad. You need your men to charge right now, right now to win. Instead, they have to throw javelins. Every f-ing time.
I dont recommend the newer ones, because I havent bought them after the fiasco of Empire. Maybe ill consider it when I get my multiplayer campaign. And the stuttering problems fixed...

Battle for Wesnoth was very fun, I had a great time doing two of the campagins and some skirmishes. I think the RNG makes people hate it, but I believe it was needed to make the AI better.

Kings Bounty games are brilliant fun. Incredible. There will be a bit of back tracking to rebuy units, but its worth it. Good humor and real fun gameplay and everything else you could want from a game (I just wish you could fast travel, if youve cleared roads of monsters). Every time they are on sale, they are the sale of the week, even with free to play or whatever (A few exceptions to this)

In a different genre, slightly, Theme Hospital, Roller Coaster Tychoon or Startopia.
None pc titles Id recommend would really just be advanced wars, with 2 being my favourite. Maybe the fire emblems, but i prefer the strategy in advanced wars. They can make the levels harder, strategy wse, because you arent concentrating on keeping characters alive permenantly, or leveling them up.

Played Arrmageddon Empires recently. Good game, but it has a huge manual, and isnt actually that hard. Some very interesting ideas (Using resources to bid to decide turn order each round) with a deck building mechanic, but just not challanging enough.

Galactic Civ 2 is well loved, and I did find it interesting, I just think there are better games out there, and it suffers from SciFi tech tree.

Lastly, does Freedom Force vs The Third Reich count? Fun game, you can pause it, so it could be considered a turn based strategy game, nearly.

[Land Squid]

.

Of the Total War games, Id recommend either of the Medevials. I hated Rome, having to be the Romans sucked real bad. You need your men to charge right now, right now to win. Instead, they have to throw javelins. Every f-ing time.


Played Arrmageddon Empires recently. Good game, but it has a huge manual, and isnt actually that hard. Some very interesting ideas (Using resources to bid to decide turn order each round) with a deck building mechanic, but just not challanging enough.



There's a button to make units use their alternate attacks. If you hold alt(I think?) while right clicking your javelin units will attack without javelins. If I remember correctly it also tells cavalry to use their swords after they have charged, which was bizarre because it's just plain better than the default behaviour....


I had forgotten about Armageddon Empires! I would definitely recommend you try this as well. There's a demo availableon the website. It's a pretty unique game with mechanics that really suit the post apocalyptic setting.

[anpd]

I echo Civ 4 suggestions and the Total War series. Chose game depending on which time period sounds most interesting to you, I like them all.

[lunarplasma]

Of Total War post-Empire...
Napoleon actually is pretty good - it's just a shame they couldn't retroactively apply the same polish back into Empire.

Shogun 2 is pretty damned decent, I think. Some people criticise the fact that it does not have the same level of unit variety compared to Medieval 2 or Empire. Personally, I like really the focus.

[Land Squid]

Of Total War post-Empire...
Napoleon actually is pretty good - it's just a shame they couldn't retroactively apply the same polish back into Empire.

Shogun 2 is pretty damned decent, I think. Some people criticise the fact that it does not have the same level of unit variety compared to Medieval 2 or Empire. Personally, I like really the focus.

Yes, that's about the only complaint I have for it, but it's only minor thing. I also don't think there is much they could do about it short of making a fantasy-historical game. Though I know almost nothing about japanese history so I could be wrong.

Is Napoleon worth going back to after Shogun 2? I got both as gifts at the same time from different people and have only played 5 min of Napoleon, but loads of Shogun.

[Duckee]

Well, out of them all I would get Medieval 2 just so I could play the Third Age mod. Yes full on, Lotr mod.

[riadsala]

The big CivIV fantasy mod is Fall from Heaven 2. An incredible piece of work. It's a bit daunting to get into, but has a great feel and atmosphere to it. There's a "new player" pdf guide somewhere that recommends good races to start with.

Which reminds me, I need to play it myself more. :)

[Giaddon]

Is Napoleon worth going back to after Shogun 2? I got both as gifts at the same time from different people and have only played 5 min of Napoleon, but loads of Shogun.

Yes, Napoleon is fantastic.

[aquamarine]

I for one plan on checking out King's Bounty this weekend. I don't know how I never came across this title before. It has hexes (hexes!) and I've never met a game with hexes that I didn't like.

As someone else pointed out the platinum edition is available on amazon for $4.99.